Cornell 1 @ Dartmouth 6 (post-game thread)

[gatitita '05]

when an entire team looks sluggish and off, you have to look to someone on the team to be a base of support to get everyone else going.  for us that would have to be either Moulson or McKee.  moulson has a big target on his back.  the other team is intimately aware of when he is out there, and will do whatever they can to keep him from taking his shot.  between that and mckee not playing his game, we dont have our foundation to build up the rest of the team.  i dont know what to do about moulson, because i dont think its his fault: i think its the other teams pointing him out.  if mckee can get back on his game, that will give us our foundation, but we do need mckee.

i agree with everyone who says its not all about mckee, the rest of the team is playing like crap too (with some exceptions... topher.)  but if mckee gets back on, the rest will follow.

[billhoward]

Cornell should not have lost so badly. Still ...

it's one game

it's early

it's the fourth straight game on the road

we have the season's toughest road trip out of the way

even Brodeur has bad games and gets pulled (occasionally)

bookies collapse runaway scores because they're not they're not representative in determining future outcomes.

It's okay to be concerned. It's a little early to head for the exits.

[French Rage]

A few things:

We lost away November Dartmouth games in 02-03 and 04-05, and I think we ended up pretty good.

The reffing.  I'm not gonna say we lost because of the reffing, we lost on our own.  But the reffing was comical at times, and you got the feeling that they werent paying attention that well, which may have lent to penalties against us.  The two I remeber were a) the puck going into the netting above the goal and no whistle and b) the puck hitting the head of a player on the D bench and no whistle.  

[Pete Godenschwager]

[Q]We lost away November Dartmouth games in 02-03 and 04-05, and I think we ended up pretty good.[/Q]

Both those games were hard fought one goal games though (the 5-2 loss in 02-03 had 2 ENG).  You could come out of those games with the feeling that even when the team was "off" they were still in it until the end.  Still, it is just one game in November.  

[Beeeej]

I know exactly what to say:  "Thank God I went to the wedding in Saratoga Springs instead."

What Cornell hockey needs, clearly, is more nine-piece R&B/disco bands and fresh sushi stations.

Beeeej

[CowbellGuy]

Resorting to a dump and chase while on a 5 on 3 is just ridiculous.

"Resorting" to a dump-and-chase is the only thing you can do when the PK is standing everyone up on the blueline. There's no room to skate through them. Find something else you don't understand to complain about. Like goalies playing the puck behind the net or shooting on the PP for the sake of shooting.

[CowbellGuy]

[Q]Trotsky Wrote:
We have been forgiving O'Byrne ... for three seasons, now.[/q]
Careful where you point that "we" now...

[CowbellGuy]

You don't get a minus for a goal given up to a power play. Or when you're in the box, creating one. +/- is a stupid stat.

[CowbellGuy]

[Q]calgARI '07 Wrote:
I would even venture to say O'Byrne has been the team's best player to this point.[/q]
 ::laugh::




Oh wait... you're serious.

[CowbellGuy]

Bill, if you ever compare the Big Red to the Devils again, in part, or in whole, I will block every subnet you every posted from at the firewall.

[KeithK]

[Q]CowbellGuy Wrote:

 You don't get a minus for a goal given up to a power play. Or when you're in the box, creating one. +/- is a stupid stat.[/q]Oh come on.  It's not a stupid stat.  It's just not a universal good/bad stat.  As with all statistics it has to be considered intelligently in the context of other statistics and knowledge about the player/team.

[redhair34]

[Q]Trotsky Wrote:

 I can't believe I'm typing this, but I agree with Facetimer.  Not about sitting McKee -- if we're going to do anything nationally this year, McKee is the guy and he simply needs to reappear, period -- but about sitting O'Byrne, and maybe for a lot longer than one night.  

We have been forgiving O'Byrne for bad positioning and dumb penalties for three seasons, now.  As near as I can tell, he hasn't learned *anything* in all that time with Schafer, who has worked defensive miracles with so many other blueliners.  Either he doesn't listen, or he just can't convert potential into results, or he gets excited and forgets everything when he's on the ice, but he is often a liability out there.  Krantz also makes some really scary defensive mistakes, but he is in effect a trailing forward and so that's the price of the ticket.  But O'Byrne is supposed to be the bruising, terrifying, take you into the corner and you never come back out guy.  If he isn't being that guy, then put in the 7th D and start developing him for the future.



Edited 1 times. Last edit at 11/13/05 12:13PM by Trotsky.[/q]

I completely disagree about sitting O'Byrne.  The penalties I remember him taking stopped a breakaway(s).  Now, yes, his poor positioning lead to some of these breakaways but at least he prevented the breakaways from becoming goals--which I can't say for some of our other defencemen.  Also, he was the only player on our team who consistently finished his checks all night long.

[ben03]

i think O'B could be a very good d-man (obviously this is not news to anyone) but i think he’s yet to even come close to fulfilling the potential Coach and the Habs saw. we’re all collectively still waiting for him to "show up." this guy could be a huge plus for this team and a defensive stalwart. but when you factor in his fumbles and bumbles and all his needless penalties (your usuale table mr. o'byrne?) he's about a sum total of naught ... even that might be a stretch. i hope he shows up this weekend and for the rest of the season, make that two … we could sure use him out there.

[Faithful Fan]

[Q]CowbellGuy Wrote:

 You don't get a minus for a goal given up to a power play. Or when you're in the box, creating one. +/- is a stupid stat.[/q]


No, nor do you get a plus for being on the ice for a power play goal, where OB has been 8 times this year.  We have only scored 9 ppg's, and he has 2 of them.

Courtesy of the ECAC box scores, Ryan O'Byrne has been on the ice for 16 of Cornell's 19 goals this season, including 7 even strength goals and 1 shg in addition to the ppg's.  This is not by accident.  In the 6 games he already has 2 goals after only scoring 3 total in the previous 2 years.  

An argument could be made that 6 games isn't a large enough sample to prove much of anything, but leading the team in +/- should be enough to suggest RETHINKING the idea of sitting OB, which is what I did in response to two posters who recommended that.  

In the interest of presenting both sides, he's been on the ice for 7 of the opponents' 19 goals - 2 even strength, 3 on the penalty kill and for 2 shg.  He's taken 7 penalties; our opponents have not scored this year while he's been in the box.

Clearly Mike Schafer thinks he belongs there.  And btw, he also thinks +/- is an important stat.

I will therefore stick with my own personal opinion that I am happier having him there than not.  

To each his own.  

[KeithK]

What we really want is for O'Byrne to hit that sweet spot of performance where he plays at a high level and contributes greatly to the team, but not so highly that Montreal pushes hard to sign him next summer.  I'll leave it to folks who have seen him play recently to decide how close he is to that point.