hockey line forming

[redhair34]

In that case...maybe some of us should swallow our pride and write to the Sun

[Jerseygirl]

What if Schafer's opinion is that the students obviously couldn't handle themselves in any of the recent line incarnations and they should be held accountable for acting like animals this time, so the only option is to go back to a mail-in process?

Seriously, don't write to him.  

[Beeeej]

[Q]redhair34 Wrote: I think the assumption that Schafer reading several constructive letters from the faithful about how the ticket line that he envisioned failed to come close to fulfilling it's stated purpose, would be too mentally and physically taxing on him and could possibly compromise his concentration on the team and the upcoming season, drastically underestimates Schafer's focus and drive.[/q]

I think so, too.  Luckily, it has absolutely nothing to do with I said.

I'm saying you should get your own priorities straight as far as Schafer is concerned.  Just because you're angry right now doesn't mean contacting the head coach of the hockey team about it right now is the right thing to do.

Gene and the Athletics Misfits will still be there in May, and there will still be plenty of time to come up with plans for a better ticket sales process.  Schafer has limited time, not limited brains or steam.  Let him spend it on what he's supposed to be spending it on.

Beeeej

[Chris \'03]

[Q]Jerseygirl Wrote:

 What if Schafer's opinion is that the students obviously couldn't handle themselves in any of the recent line incarnations and they should be held accountable for acting like animals this time, so the only option is to go back to a mail-in process?

Seriously, don't write to him.[/q]

You're wrong to dignify this year's process as a line. A mob of pushing and shoving is hardly a line. If this year's "line incarnation" were an actual line, there'd be less of an issue. There is a middle ground between a mob of angry frat boys and a lottery. It's called a line. All the talk of academics is hogwash because if you annoucned sale to begin on a sunday night (or even early on a monday morning) or at the end of fall break, you wouldn't run into that as an issue for vast majority of people. And if we keep throwing around students acting like adults (an idea i'm not sure i buy) then they can make the choice to skip class to wait in line. God knows students skip class for an assortment of dumber reasons.

This isn't a line, it's survival of the fittest lottery followed by a mandatory waiting period. THe waiting period is more like the waiting period to buy a gun than a line. It's no wonder a system designed by wrestlers makes pushing, shoving, and trampling the desired conduct to achieve success.

[Will]

[Q]Jerseygirl Wrote:

And if you're going to say that all the higher ups who ok'd this should be fired, what should happen to the students who were trampling each other? After all, they're supposed to be adults capable of rational thought and decision making.[/q]

Obviously, the answer is to give me all the tickets and let me distribute them as I see fit. :-D

[Tub(a)]

[Q]Chris '03 Wrote:

 [Q2]Jerseygirl Wrote:

 What if Schafer's opinion is that the students obviously couldn't handle themselves in any of the recent line incarnations and they should be held accountable for acting like animals this time, so the only option is to go back to a mail-in process?

Seriously, don't write to him.[/Q]
You're wrong to dignify this year's process as a line. A mob of pushing and shoving is hardly a line. If this year's "line incarnation" were an actual line, there'd be less of an issue. There is a middle ground between a mob of angry frat boys and a lottery. It's called a line. All the talk of academics is hogwash because if you annoucned sale to begin on a sunday night (or even early on a monday morning) or at the end of fall break, you wouldn't run into that as an issue for vast majority of people. And if we keep throwing around students acting like adults (an idea i'm not sure i buy) then they can make the choice to skip class to wait in line. God knows students skip class for an assortment of dumber reasons.

This isn't a line, it's survival of the fittest lottery followed by a mandatory waiting period. THe waiting period is more like the waiting period to buy a gun than a line. It's no wonder a system designed by wrestlers makes pushing, shoving, and trampling the desired conduct to achieve success. [/q]

Wednesday morning after Fall Break, say 6am, would seem to be a great time that wouldn't interfere with academics and would allow the most dedicated to get tickets by camping out as early as they wanted.

[Jerseygirl]

Sorry, Chris '03. College students, assuming they're of normal college age are adults, and should be held accountable for their behavior as such. If they're incapable of keeping their shit together, they should answer for that.

I never said this "line" idea was a good one, and I believe I referred to it as a debacle roughly twice as often as I called it a line, just so we're clear with the reading comprehension. My point is that the powers that be or whatever don't deserve all of the blame for what happened. It's really not as simple as Gene fucking up and deserving to be fired for the ensuing mob. I say this as someone who has put in a lot of time as both a Cornell hockey fan and a Cornell Athletics student employee. I see the fans' perspectives, and am also familiar with the bureaucracy behind what happened with the "line"/mob/debacle/semantic differentiation for what we know I'm referencing.

There's more I want to say, but. Bedtime.

[canuck28]

Sorry, stampedes have occured in the past that were caused by adults -- normal adults.  Even some related to sports:  reference Iran soccer match last year.  The problem is that it is basic human instinct to compete when forced to.  This year, a select few decided to push their way up front, which resulted in everybody pushing in order to keep everyone else back.  The "adult" theory does not hold up because I have yet to see any difference between adults and children in this situation as observed in real world scenarios.

[Chris \'03]

[Q]Jerseygirl Wrote:

 Sorry, Chris '03. College students, assuming they're of normal college age  are  adults, and should be held accountable for their behavior as such. If they're incapable of keeping their shit together, they should answer for that.

I never said this "line" idea was a good one, and I believe I referred to it as a debacle roughly twice as often as I called it a line, just so we're clear with the reading comprehension. My point is that the powers that be or whatever don't deserve all of the blame for what happened. It's really not as simple as Gene fucking up and deserving to be fired for the ensuing mob. I say this as someone who has put in a lot of time as both a Cornell hockey fan and a Cornell Athletics student employee. I see the fans' perspectives, and am also familiar with the bureaucracy behind what happened with the "line"/mob/debacle/semantic differentiation for what we know I'm referencing.

There's more I want to say, but. Bedtime.[/q]

Sure according to their birth certificates most college students are adults in the strictest of senses, but I don't think it's a stretch to say that a good number of them are incapable of acting like adults. The issue of how college students are treated, their sense of entitlement, and their general superiority complex is for antother day. My point was simply to note that you can't boil this down to a, "god, can't these folks just act like adults?" conversation.

As for the alleged line semantics, I never said it was all gene's fault. I never really said it was anyone's fault. I just took issue with you calling it a line because it wasn't a line. It's more than semantics, it's an important distinction to make before suggesting that this year is evidence that "lines" don't work. Your argument was that if you didn't like the line this year and complain to schafer, the future is a lottery because students can't handle themselves. I simply counter that it's not so black and white. This year was not a line but a mob. A line can still exist between the extremes of mob and lottery. The most common sense approach is probably what Grant suggested. Sell tickets at 6am the wednesday after fall break. Students can line up outside the ticket office whenever the mood should strike and it won't substantially interfere with class. (If you went a step further and created a modified GA system, there'd be less concern. By modified GA, I'd suggest breaking the current sections into 2 blocks of seven rows or three blocks of 5, 5, and 4. As such when you picked your seat, you be picking section b lower instead of section b row 2 seat 2 or section d middle or e upper, etc. This would create a) an incentive to wait in line b) an incentive to show up on time to games to get your preferred seat and c) it would mitigate the bull rush when the doors open with everyone trying to get thier seats in the totlaly GA student section. Maybe I'm crazy, but it seems like it might help.)

I would like to add though, that I agree with your conclusion that writing to Schafer at this point in time won't solve a damn thing. It would probably be wiser to send concerns to him after the season has concluded, emotions have cooled, and there is still ample time to consider constructive solutions to the problem for next year. Short of saying, "do over" there's no turning back for this season's process and Schafer has other things to worry about.

If anyone is really interested in change and not just emotional/bitter complaint spend some time compiling the ticket policies at other schools, see what you find, and present rational ideas to athletics (schafer, gene, brenner, noel, etc.). Anything said at this point probably falls on deaf ears, and simply saying "anything is better than this" will not get anything accomplished. Of course it may help you if you're a wrestler. The word or a wrestler trumps all in athletics...

[canuck98]

Yes, I do not intend on "telling" them, rather i would like to "show" them how to cheer.  This is said in the most positive light.  I do not intend to be an expert, instead just a confident fan who is proud to voice his support.

[redhair34]

[Q]Jerseygirl Wrote:

the root of the problem is that adults are willing to act like complete animals and trample one another for a good seat/status/whatever.

I highly doubt, especially after this, that they'd go for a system like GA that may risk a stampede [/q]

Your analysis of the "root of the problem" couldn't be much further from the truth.  I'm too tired to respond now so I guess I'll wait till tomorrow.  

Maybe you could humor me in the meantime by explaining why a General Admission policy would risk a stampede?

[redhair34]

[Q]Beeeej Wrote:

 Schafer has limited time, not limited brains or steam.  Let him spend it on what he's supposed to be spending it on.

Beeeej[/q]

I agree.  That's why I've already written my letter but have yet to send it.  I wanted to get my thoughts and recollection of last nights events down on paper while they are still fresh in my mind.

[Beeeej]

Well, now, that's a fine idea.

And if you choose e-mail, most e-mail programs will let you "stop-queue" an e-mail to be sent at a later date.

Beeeej

[Jerseygirl]

[Q]redhair34 Wrote:

 [Q2]Jerseygirl Wrote:

the root of the problem is that adults are willing to act like complete animals and trample one another for a good seat/status/whatever.

I highly doubt, especially after this, that they'd go for a system like GA that may risk a stampede [/Q]
Your analysis of the "root of the problem" couldn't be much further from the truth.  I'm too tired to respond now so I guess I'll wait till tomorrow.  

Maybe you could humor me in the meantime by explaining why a General Admission policy would risk a stampede?[/q]

Because the university isn't going to spring for Lynah Rink crowd control for an indefinite amount of time...say they choose to open the rink an hour before the game. I'd bet there will be at least some games -- not every game -- but some games where people will be trying to jockey for position and race to the most desired seats, and there will be pushing, shoving, etc.

Athletics was really poorly prepared for Monday night. They had an idea of what they were going to get and somehow thought Gene and a couple CUPD's would be able to keep things under control. NOT knowing what to expect each week, I doubt they'd trust the lovable (?) but partly elderly ushers to keep things under control, especially now that students have demonstrated how they're willing to behave in order to get a desirable seat.

I'm well aware of how crowds make "normal" adults go absolutely batshit and behave in socially deviant ways. I've seen soccer riots and watched fans "celebrate" their teams'  world championships by setting people's cars on fire.

I just don't understand why no one else seems to think these people trampling each other should be held responsible while they're calling for Athletics to be held responsible. Or if they do think so, why they're not saying it. The setup for this year's ticket distribution didn't encourage calm, compliant behavior, but the students still chose to act the way they did and should be held accountable for that. I am a huge fan of personal responsibility.

I don't think this year's "line" will serve as an example of why lines at Cornell don't work, but I do think it's the cherry on top of a big "people have been cutting every line we're tried to form since we went back to having them" sundae.

I kind of like the modified GA idea, but me liking it means nothing, of course. I don't know what the work schedule is like for university workers over fall break, but I can't imagine anyone would be too thrilled to give up their vacation to hover over a bunch of camping students. Remember, people have lives, even if you choose for one long weekend not to.*

*Believe me, I've dorked it out for sports in ways I am totally unwilling to admit, so that's as much a swipe at myself as it is at anyone else.

[Beeeej]

[Q]Jerseygirl Wrote:I don't know what the work schedule is like for university workers over fall break, but I can't imagine anyone would be too thrilled to give up their vacation to hover over a bunch of camping students. Remember, people have lives, even if you choose for one long weekend not to.[/q]

I've said it before, and I'll say it again:  I would be willing to take a couple of days off every single year to help police the student season ticket line as an alumni volunteer if Cornell were willing to allow a Duke-style line.  And I doubt I'm the only one.

Just imagine how fun it would be to bore the hell out of the young'uns with stories of what it was like when we waited on line.  ::snore::

Beeeej