Ticket Procedure Released

[Pace]

No, of course not. If I run someone over it's not Cornell's fault. However, if Cornell created a situation which induced people to behave dangerously and someone got hurt, then Cornell is very morally liable, and can actually still be held legally liable also.

[canuck9]

Well said.  You should be running this instead of those who are currently out of touch with what the faithful really want.  Best idea i've heard yet.

[canuck7]

There are grad tickets in B, D, F, and G if I am not mistaken.  Certainly, there are tickets in B and D.  These tickets last year were on the side that borders the vip "C" seating.  About 5-10 seats on the inside of those sections (all rows too) were reserved for Grad students.

[Chris \'03]

I think a fair way to have this line would be to simply announce that on October 1 or whatever date you have in mind, tickets will go on sale starting at whatever time you want.

Tell people they are allowed to wait in the west stands at schoellkopf as early as they want to allow the market to dictate the price in time waiting. Then setup an ordered list, with one person from athletcs or security or wherever taking names and monitoring it. And do random spot checks of people on the list (you can allow one person to represent two or three others to cover class times). You could even say that no one can be added to the list between midnight and 6 am or something until the last night or two. You could even move it indoors for those nights.

This would cut down on the crazy driving because you'd allow the line to start early enough that you wouldn't have to risk life an limb to get a ticket, you'd just have to act fast to get first dibs.

It also creates some semblence of order and safety because of the way the west stands are structured (only a few ways in or out, lighting, a sound system, seating, etc.). And on top of that, it will benefit athletics because teams like field hockey will suddenly have 200 times the numbers of students showing up for games.

I don't know, it just seems easy to create a system that is more fair and safer than the one proposed.

It's also worth noting that Cornell is not the only place struggling with this. As a grad studen at uconn, i've been inundated with information on basketball tickets. Here's their (stampede provoking) policy:

Students may begin to occupy a position in-line starting at 2:00 pm on
Friday, September 23rd. There will be no lining-up prior to this time.
Campus police and event staff will be clearing the area prior to this
time.

Students must remain in-line as there will be no saving spots for groups
or individuals.

Wristbands will be distributed at an "unannounced time" on Friday,
before the sale. You must be in-line at this time to maintain your
priority.

 Once given a wristband you will be given information on what time to
return on Saturday to purchase your tickets.  Do not remove your
wristband.  It must remain intact.  Wristbands are not transferable.

After receiving your wristband on Friday, you may either leave or get in
the appropriate line on FAIRFIELD WAY.

Regardless of whether you leave or stay, you must be in-line (in
wristband number order) on FAIRFIELD WAY at your designated wristband
time.

If you have a wristband and arrive after your designated time slot, you
have forfeited your priority in line.

[Jordan 04]

[q]Students may begin to occupy a position in-line starting at 2:00 pm on
Friday, September 23rd. There will be no lining-up prior to this time.
Campus police and event staff will be clearing the area prior to this
time.

Students must remain in-line as there will be no saving spots for groups
or individuals.

Wristbands will be distributed at an "unannounced time" on Friday,
before the sale. You must be in-line at this time to maintain your
priority.

Once given a wristband you will be given information on what time to
return on Saturday to purchase your tickets. Do not remove your
wristband. It must remain intact. Wristbands are not transferable.

After receiving your wristband on Friday, you may either leave or get in
the appropriate line on FAIRFIELD WAY.

Regardless of whether you leave or stay, you must be in-line (in
wristband number order) on FAIRFIELD WAY at your designated wristband
time.

If you have a wristband and arrive after your designated time slot, you
have forfeited your priority in line. [/q]

This at least shows me that we're not the only ones who make these procedures to best fit the interests of the University, rather than those of the ticket-buyers.

Any type of "you may not line up until x time" clause in the procedure is wonderful for reducing the costs spent on staffing the line, securing the line,  and is wonderful for keeping students going to class, and so on and so forth.

Unfortunately, from the ticket-buyer's perspective, this is precisely the biggest flaw in these procedures.  People will try and line up early.  People who didn't try will complain.  What's considered in line and what's not?  If I decide to watch every soccer and football practice behind Bartels, am I lined up?  "But I'm just watching practices!"  Do I have to be 50 feet away?  75?  100?  And on, and on, and on, and on.....

I'm not really sure if there's a compromise between the two points of view, because they're so disparate.  Myself and others in this thread have given the obvious solution from the ticket-buyer's perspective: "Tell me when you're selling tickets, and I'll line up as early or late as I want to line up."  But it seems unrealistic that we'll ever see that.

[French Rage]

[Q]Pace Wrote:

 No, of course not. If I run someone over it's not Cornell's fault. However, if Cornell created a situation which induced people to behave dangerously and someone got hurt, then Cornell is very morally liable, and can actually still be held legally liable also.[/q]

See Slope Day.

[A-19]

there must be 4 main priorities to consider when designing a system:
(1) fairness: any student has the same ability to get a line number
(2) acadmeic integrity: not many missed classes
(3) safety: speaks for itself
(4) merit: the most dedicated fans get tickets/best tickets. (currently defined by the heuristic "waits longest in line" which is probably pretty accurate)

this particular system announced this year and designed last year emphasizes fairness and academic integrity at the expense of safety and merit. the problem is, i believe most individuals would agree that this prioritization of elements is out of sync with the spirit of the culture and the needs of the university. instead, safety and merit should be emphasized first in designing a line system.

the 4 values are not necessarily in conflict. consider the following: allowing students to line up when they want will satisfy merit. allowing them to do so well before tickets will be sold will prevent a bumrush, securing safety. in such a system, if students can only wait at nights, academic integrity is still preserved. and, fairness still exists as long as the line is policed/regulated and the overall waiting is not excessively long (which would bar those with labwork/jobs/theses).

i think the conclusion here is that the current system only tackles part of the elements required to have a successful line process. by emphasizing fairness and academic integrity, it does so at the extent of what should be considered more important priorities.

that is not to say that improvements have not been made over the last 6 years. waiting in line after you guarantee tickets still weeds out some who care less. moving away from a lottery system also is a move towards merit. and recognizing that a "no preline" policy creates an angry, unregulated mob ready to stampede preserves safety. the problem is that the administration has taken these lessons and moved in a different direction than many faithful would like.

as a final point, i think it's important to consider that several logistical improvements have been made each year running which make the process better (pre-paying etc).

-mike '04

[Chris 02]

The ticket line will never be perfect because demand always outstrips supply.  See last year's thread on the griping.  Even back when I was a senior in 2002, things weren't perfect.

http://elf.elynah.com/read.php?1,43407

[KeithK]

The fact that demand outstrips supply is a feature, not a bug..  If there were a surplus of tickets then there wouldn't be much of a line, because why would you need to commit time and effort when you can get in on game day anyway?  Some people would line up in order to get the best seats reserved, but you wouldn't be risking stampedes.

[Pace]

Not really. The University has sought to regulate Slope Day to control its liability. The University is not trying to control the line, it's gotten rid of it. Instead, it has created a potential for a brief and totally uncontrolled situation which is likely to result in someone getting injured. I'm insulted by the fact that the University has pursued this policy solely with the goal of minimising liability and expense in mind, and with no regard for our safety, even if from each other.

[KeithK]

You're insulted that the school is primarily worried about liability and expense?  I guess you must feel insulted a lot...

[Jordan 04]

[Q]Chris 02 Wrote:

 The ticket line will never be perfect because demand always outstrips supply.  See last year's thread on the griping.  Even back when I was a senior in 2002, things weren't perfect.

[/q]

Huh?

Simply because everyone who wishes to purchase a ticket will not doesn't mean the process to determine who gets those tickets can't be perfect or logical.

An easy example is every playoff game in any major New York sport, which has demand outstripping supply.  What do they do pretty much every single time?  They announce the date of sale and that's pretty much it.  And people line up  they deem appropriate.  Oh, and they don't have some stupid pre-announcment-announcment telling everybody when they're going to tell everybody that tickets are on sale.  (Geez, look at that last sentence.  You can't even write what Cornell athletics does without the sentence looking stupid.)

[KeithK]

True, but the Yankees don't have to even pretend that they care whether their customers fail out of school or lose their jobs in order to get tickets.  And I don't recall

[KeithK]

Here's a thought.  How about a system that truly rewards fans who attend games and show up on time?  Before every home game have ushers swipe a student's ID in addition to taking a ticket.  Athletics then stores a record of how many games each student have actually attended.  Then when it comes time to sell tickets the next year, rank all students according to how many games each has attended over the past three years.  This provides automatic seniority benefits for upperclassmen who have attended regularly and gives credit for actually attending games, not just buying tickets (like the NCAA system does).  Use bins (0-5 games, 6-10, 11-15, etc.) instead of simple numercial ranking to eliminate some noise and to not screw freshmen compared to the senior who's been to 2 games in 3 years.  But perfect attendance should be in a bin by itself.

People who end up in the same bin could be given tickets/priority on either a first come first serve basis (meaning lines, but on a smaller scale) or by random lottery.

As a further incentive you could give bonus points for all students who enter during or prior to warmups, thus getting people in the rink for faceoff (and maybe making a few extra bucks on concessions).  Similarly, give no credit to anyone who arrives after the puck is dropped (spare me any whining about how hard it is to get to the rink on time).

Further, you could consider adding bonus points for buying playoff tickets through the ticket office, though I'd only do this in special cases (e.g. Minneapolis) and when they don't sell the entire allotment.  It's not really fair penalizing the guy who gets shut out at the ticket office and buys his tickets off USCHO.

The above would largely eliminate the need for a line with security concerns while rewarding fans who have demonstrated loyalty over time.  Obvious downsides are the cost of creating and maintaining an attendance database (equipment and manpower) and the possibility that it would slow down lines at the entrances to the rink (swiping ID cards).   It would take three years to implement fully (building up a database).  It's also ripe for gaming unless ushers actually verify that the picture on the ID matches the face, making them into something akin to bouncers.

Anyway, just an idea for open consideration.

[redhair34]

I love it