Cornell vs. Clarkson in the Late 60s

[ugarte]

[Q]ninian '72 Wrote:
RichS calling Ned out for refusing to schedule a two-game North Country trip just doesn't make sense in this context.
[/q]Well, one of the things RichS said was that there was some personal animosity with the Clarkson coach, and there were a few SLU only trips.

[ninian '72]

[Q]ugarte Wrote:

 [Q2]ninian '72 Wrote:
RichS calling Ned out for refusing to schedule a two-game North Country trip just doesn't make sense in this context.
[/Q]
Well, one of the things RichS said was that there was some personal animosity with the Clarkson coach, and there were a few SLU only trips.[/q]

Typically we alternated away games with SLU(t) and Clarkson.  There were only two years (69 & 70) without a RS Clarkson game and only two years (66 & 70) without an away game in the North Country.  Although Ned was intense and surely ruffled a lot of feathers, there are other possible explanations.  E.g., we added a H/A away series with Penn to our schedule in 68, which meant that we needed to cut games with other ECAC opponents.  It may have just been Clarkson's turn in 69 and 70.  Anybody with more direct knowledge on this?  Where's Al when we need him?

[Al DeFlorio]

[Q]ninian '72 Wrote:

 [Q2]ugarte Wrote:

 [Q2]ninian '72 Wrote:
RichS calling Ned out for refusing to schedule a two-game North Country trip just doesn't make sense in this context.
[/Q]
Well, one of the things RichS said was that there was some personal animosity with the Clarkson coach, and there were a few SLU only trips.[/Q]
Typically we alternated away games with SLU(t) and Clarkson.  There was only one year (69) without a RS Clarkson game.  Although Ned was intense and surely ruffled a lot of feathers, there are other possible explanations.  E.g., we added a H/A away series with Penn to our schedule in 68, which meant that we needed to cut games with other ECAC opponents.  It may have just been Clarkson's turn in 69.  Anybody with more direct knowledge on this?  Where's Al when we need him?
[/q]
Al's right here but doesn't have much light to shed.  I was not aware of any Ned/Len feud at the time.  

Looks to me like we alternated home-and-away with SLU from 1964 (Ned's first season) through 1970 (his last).  We also played SLU four times in regular-season tournaments during that period, thrice in NYC and once in Syracuse.

From 1964 through 1967, we alternated home-and-away with Clarkson, playing Clarkson in the North Country the years we played SLU at Lynah.  In 1968 the only regular-season meeting was in the NYC holiday tournament.  Clarkson may also have been the fourth team in some of those other NYC tournaments, but the two teams did not play each other.  In 1969 and 1970 there were no regular-season games between Clarkson and Cornell.  What to read into all that?  Beats me.

Ned lost his first three regular-season games to Clarkson, and then the 1966 ECAC finals, but beat Clarkson in 1967 and 1968 (and, of course, twice in the 1970 post-season)--so I don't think it was fear of losing.  Ninian's right in saying Penn's joining Division I caused two additional games to be added to our regular-season schedule in 1968--so someone had to be cut.  Also, we added the Syracuse holiday tournament in both 1969 and 1970--so openings had to be cleared for those games as well.

I guess I'd suggest we not try to read too much into this.  I'm sure the 1971 game in Potsdam--RichS's most endearing memory, it seems--was scheduled while Ned was still at Cornell, as Ned's departure wasn't announced until after the 1970 NCAAs.  Cornell did not appear in Syracuse in 1971, and played in Syracuse rather than NYC (the latter tournament may have been dropped by the ECAC) in 1972, so this would have freed up two games allowing resumption of the regular-season games with Clarkson.  It's likely something as straightforward and non-conspiratorial as that.

[Scersk '97]

[Q]Al DeFlorio Wrote:

From 1964 through 1967, we alternated home-and-away with Clarkson, playing Clarkson in the North Country the years we played SLU at Lynah.  In 1968 the only regular-season meeting was in the NYC holiday tournament.  Clarkson may also have been the fourth team in some of those other NYC tournaments, but the two teams did not play each other.  In 1969 and 1970 there were no regular-season games between Clarkson and Cornell.  What to read into all that?  Beats me.[/q]

Turns out there were *two* ECAC Christmas tournaments at the time, the "ECAC Christmas Hockey Tournament" http://www.augenblick.org/chha/i_ecacb.html and the "ECAC Holiday Hockey Festival" http://www.augenblick.org/chha/i_ecacny.html, in Boston and New York, respectively.  It seems that Cornell and Clarkson just got scheduled for different cities in 69 and 70.  I'm sure the ECAC had a hand in spreading out the good teams for these tournaments.

[Q]Ninian's right in saying Penn's joining Division I caused two additional games to be added to our regular-season schedule in 1968--so someone had to be cut.  Also, we added the Syracuse holiday tournament in both 1969 and 1970--so openings had to be cleared for those games as well.[/Q]

That seems a reasonable answer for me.  Both coaches also probably figured that they'd end up seeing each other in the playoffs, so that, if necessary, they could "settle it on the ice."

I have often wondered why older Clarkson grads express a perception of disrespect towards Clarkson by Cornell at the time.  I wondered if there was anything behind the perception other than the normal partisanship of one's undergrad days.   Of course, I'm conditioned quite a bit by my father, a Clarkson alum.  He has stated, on numerous occasions, that they, "hated Cornell back then.  Especially the Ferguson brothers."  This scheduling anomaly probably just added fuel to the fire.

For the record, he and my mother, a SUNY Potsdamn grad (of course), have attended Cornell  games since 1988 and cheer very loudly for the Red.  For my freshman year, however, they switched their seats from L to O, just to be in the right place for the Clarkson game.

[Drew]

[Q]Scersk '97 Wrote:

 [Q2]Al DeFlorio Wrote:

From 1964 through 1967, we alternated home-and-away with Clarkson, playing Clarkson in the North Country the years we played SLU at Lynah.  In 1968 the only regular-season meeting was in the NYC holiday tournament.  Clarkson may also have been the fourth team in some of those other NYC tournaments, but the two teams did not play each other.  In 1969 and 1970 there were no regular-season games between Clarkson and Cornell.  What to read into all that?  Beats me.[/Q]
Turns out there were *two* ECAC Christmas tournaments at the time, the "ECAC Christmas Hockey Tournament"  and the "ECAC Holiday Hockey Festival" , in Boston and New York, respectively.  It seems that Cornell and Clarkson just got scheduled for different cities in 69 and 70.  I'm sure the ECAC had a hand in spreading out the good teams for these tournaments.

[Q2]Ninian's right in saying Penn's joining Division I caused two additional games to be added to our regular-season schedule in 1968--so someone had to be cut.  Also, we added the Syracuse holiday tournament in both 1969 and 1970--so openings had to be cleared for those games as well.[/Q]
That seems a reasonable answer for me.  Both coaches also probably figured that they'd end up seeing each other in the playoffs, so that, if necessary, they could "settle it on the ice."

I have often wondered why older Clarkson grads express a perception of disrespect towards Clarkson by Cornell at the time.  I wondered if there was anything behind the perception other than the normal partisanship of one's undergrad days.   Of course, I'm conditioned quite a bit by my father, a Clarkson alum.  He has stated, on numerous occasions, that they, "hated Cornell back then.  Especially the Ferguson brothers."  This scheduling anomaly probably just added fuel to the fire.

For the record, he and my mother, a SUNY Potsdamn grad (of course), have attended Cornell  games since 1988 and cheer very loudly for the Red.  For my freshman year, however, they switched their seats from L to O, just to be in the right place for the Clarkson game. [/q]

Great story, glad they have their priorities straight.
;-)