RPI follows Clarkson and St Lawrence games with suspensions

[ben03]

Alright rich let's have a little recap, here's what i actually said:
[Q]ben03 Wrote:

 [Q2]RichS Wrote:
And oh...Potsdam is no less "God forsaken" than Ithaca.[/Q]
hey Rich, get over yourself for a second and realize you are not telling us anything we don't know already.
BTW, Potsdam is pretty damn "God forsaken"  ... i mean c'mon who are you kidding Canton is nicer than Potsdam[/q]
my reading comp is just fine thanks ... i think you are the one that needs to read the words on the page and not the ones you think are there. my statement was in direct reference to the quoted segment w/in my post and nothing else. i think it's time to get off your horse.
[Q]RichS Wrote:
 Ben,
You said I was telling you something everyone already knew.  Obviously thets not so since one person characterized the drinking as "harmless".  I never said YOU disagreed with the drinking part.
Do they teach Reading comp at cornell?  
And right RichH, Ben did not mention Ithaca.  I did...it's just as God forsaken downtown if not more so than the North Country.  Actually, the NC is a lot closer to being "God's Country.
Ok, that's enough sarcasm I think.  I have HS hockey to go watch now.   [/q]
... and apparently they don't teach sarcasm or reading comp up there in "God forsaken" Potsdam ... must be that whole tech thing. ::whistle::

[Pete Godenschwager]

::popcorn::

[billhoward]

[Further OT] Academic tenure ought to at least be a topic for ongoing discussion unless we believe lifetime tenure has only upsides and no downsides. From the outside, a lot of people wonder: Once a professor gets tenure, how many explore their newfound freedoms and continue to grow, and how many coast?

Is it possible - and this is a Forbes / WSJ kind of argument, the law of reverse consequences - that tenure ultimately provides for less job security and longevity overall - that maybe it drives colleges to reduce the number of professorships, including non-tenured but potentially longer term contractual professorships, in favor of low-paid lecturer positions, maybe without much in the way of benefits, to compensate?

Just wanted to toss a little more gasoline on the embers ...

[RichS]

[Q]ben03 Wrote:

 Alright rich let's have a little recap, here's what i actually said:
[Q2]ben03 Wrote:

my reading comp is just fine thanks ... i think you are the one that needs to read the words on the page and not the ones you think are there. my statement was in direct reference to the quoted segment w/in my post and nothing else. i think it's time to get off your horse.

  [/Q]
... and apparently they don't teach sarcasm or reading comp up there in "God forsaken" Potsdam ... must be that whole tech thing.[/q

Nice recap Ben.  Of course you omitted the part that I originally replied to, i.e., that someone called drinking on the bus harmless.   It wasn't me that started calling towns "God forsaken".

I learned all about sarcasm and reading comp well before I went to Clarkson.  If you honed your reading comp at cornell, either go back for a refresher course or get a refund.   :-D

Oh, and who's on a horse?  Me thinks you're the one doing the pontificating here riding high on a horse.  Must be that whole AG School thing.

By the way, don't they teach you to use Caps at cornell?  ::rolleyes::

Have a nice night.

[RichS]

Greg,

Thanks for the update.  I haven't seen all that much of the other areas in recent visits but last time I was in downtown Ithaca (2003), that main shopping drag looked pretty shabby.

And yes, I take it as tongue in cheek.  I  love this rivalry and have done so since 2/2/71.  You can look it up!  :-)

[ben03]

****WARNING THIS POST CONTAINS SEMI-SARCASM: READ AT YOUR OWN RISK ****
[Q]RichS Wrote:
 [Q2]ben03 Wrote:
 Alright rich let's have a little recap, here's what i actually said:
my reading comp is just fine thanks ... i think you are the one that needs to read the words on the page and not the ones you think are there. my statement was in direct reference to the quoted segment w/in my post and nothing else. i think it's time to get off your horse.
... and apparently they don't teach sarcasm or reading comp up there in "God forsaken" Potsdam ... must be that whole tech thing.[/q]
Nice recap Ben.  Of course you omitted the part that I originally replied to, i.e., that someone called drinking on the bus harmless.   It wasn't me that started calling towns "God forsaken".
I learned all about sarcasm and reading comp well before I went to Clarkson.  If you honed your reading comp at cornell, either go back for a refresher course or get a refund.    
Oh, and who's on a horse?  Me thinks you're the one doing the pontificating here riding high on a horse.  Must be that whole AG School thing.
By the way, don't they teach you to use Caps at cornell?  
Have a nice night.[/q]
so i'm trying to follow you here rich and i'm having a little trouble (scratch that) a lot of trouble.

first, i could give a monkey's a$$ what you originally replied to ... i was replying to your jab at ithaca and nothing else (even if you didn’t start that one … bill ::whistle:: ). second, i NEVER disagreed with your comments about drinking. trust me i am well aware of the consequences of drinking and driving (and for those who were wondering … i do not drink). third, you're pretty damn touchy if you take every little poke at Potsdam and/or Clarkson as a direct shot at you (possibly some issues here dude ... might want to get those checked out). fact is ... you are sooooo VERY predictable and you make it WAY TOO easy to get a rise out of (almost too easy).
i thank you for continually illustrating this point with your replies (can you tell i am an older sibling? :-P) … and i only give you/Clarkson/Potsdam $hit b/c you’re team is good (scratch that) was good and will be again (hopefully later than sonner, preferably never again).

so let's try this recap thing again, shall we?

(a) drinking on a team trip = BAD. seen it firsthand … played on more than a few teams in my life (albeit somewhat shorter life than some on this board ;-) ).

(b), potsdam, ithaca, canton, troy, hanover (sorry dart~ben), new haven etc … are all to some extent "God forsaken" i don’t think anyone’s arguing that.

(c) RichS is an easy target and v. predictable (WARNING: engage at your own peril).

(d) i guess you’re going to make me reiterate …MY SARCASM AND READING COMPERHENTION ARE JUST FINE THANK YOU FOR THE CONCERN ... there’s no need for a refund. sorry for the yelling, RichS is having a hard time hearing ... i mean reading (it's that tech thing again).

(e) i don't ride horses

(f) i was not in the Ag school

(g) i'm well aware of the use of capitals ... i just CHOOSE[/I] (that one’s for you Erica) to use them sparingly for emphasis. or maybe it’s all a big conspiracy JUST TO PISS YOU OFF which is a possibility. ::uptosomething::

(h) … i hope the other readers have gotten a bit of a laugh reading our little spat

hope that clears things up ... i almost forgot colgate sucks!

~ttfn

[marty]

Extra large ::popcorn:: with real butter.

And for those who might stumble on this thread sometime in the near or distant future I will copy Jon's article here because it will disappear from the link in the first message in a few more days.

Also note that the situation that unfolded for RIP last weekend may have cost them one or both games.  They lost to Vermont by a goal and to a good Dartmouth team (that pasted them at home 9-1 three weeks earlier) by two.  This after looking like the most putrid club in the league for most of the last two months.

[Q]
RPI hockey players kept out for drinking
Three seniors, including co-captain, put on suspension for two games  
 
By JON PAUL MOROSI, Staff writer
First published: Monday, January 31, 2005
 
Two weekends ago, RPI earned its first road sweep of Clarkson and St. Lawrence in 20 years, while winning back-to-back league games for the first time this season.

"The guys were really excited," said senior co-captain Nick Economakos. "Unfortunately, we got overexcited, and it affected our judgment."

In what Economakos called a "temporary mistake in judgment," he and senior teammates Matt McNeely and Blake Pickett consumed a bottle of liquor, given to them by a friend, on the team's trip back from Potsdam through the night of Jan. 22 and early morning hours of Jan. 23. The three players -- all regulars -- were suspended for two days of practice and the team's trip to Vermont and Dartmouth this past weekend.

The Engineers lost both games. They are tied for ninth in the ECAC Hockey League.

"It was a shame we took away our team's momentum by doing that," Economakos told the Times Union on Sunday.

According to athletic director Ken Ralph, RPI student-athletes -- even those of legal drinking age, as these three are -- may not consume alcohol on school-funded trips.

An athletic department investigation into the incident concluded that only the three seniors consumed alcohol, Ralph said. The alcohol was provided by a friend who Economakos said was not a fellow player, coach, parent, or affiliate of the program.

Because of the blizzard that night, the drive home lasted eight hours, twice as long as it otherwise would. The bus stopped once for fast food, but at no place where additional alcohol could have been purchased, Economakos said.

According to Ralph, team trainer Chris Thompson found the bottle, empty, after the bus arrived in Troy around 5 a.m. that Sunday. Thompson informed head coach Dan Fridgen, who asked that the players responsible come forward. At that point, Economakos, McNeely, and Pickett identified themselves. McNeely and Pickett did not respond to messages seeking comment.

Ralph and Fridgen made the decision jointly. Fridgen, who was ill over the weekend, did not respond to messages left at his home.

The three will not be disciplined further and are eligible to practice today. They can play in Saturday's home game against Holy Cross. Economakos will remain a co-captain.

"This is not an alcohol problem," Ralph said. "This was a lapse in judgment based on opportunity. That's all. The reality is that these are good guys."

Economakos said alcohol is "not commonplace" on team trips and "hasn't been a problem here." He has no direct knowledge of past instances, but could not say for certain that this is the first. "Sometimes when you're sitting at the front of the bus, you don't always know what's going on in the back," he said.

Aside from state and federal drinking laws, RPI athletic teams develop their own policies, usually enforced by team captains. Economakos said the team does not have concrete rules against alcohol consumption among players of age, but that players do not normally drink during the week.

The hockey team, which placed 25 of its 28 members on the Dean's List last semester, enforces curfews: midnight during the week, 11 p.m. before game days, and 2 a.m. after Saturday night victories.

Recently, more serious incidents involving alcohol have occurred in college hockey. North Dakota captain Matt Greene was suspended two games following his arrest on a drunk driving suspicion. Four Canisius players were suspended for two exhibition games following a night in a Grand Forks, N.D., hotel that sent one player to the hospital with gashes and a bill for $550 in damages to the school's athletic department, according to the Buffalo News.

Also, on the same weekend RPI visited the North Country, Clarkson announced the removal of one player and two-game suspensions for four others for violations of team rules. It is not clear whether alcohol was involved in that incident.

"Student-athletes are held to a much higher standard than the student body in general," Ralph said. "There could be a hundred other instances of this happening with other clubs or groups on campus, and you'd never hear about it.

"That said, our players should know that, and take care to understand what we expect of them."

Paul Morosi can be reached at 454-5425 or by e-mail at jmorosi@timesunion.com.
[/Q]
 

[billhoward]

[Q]RichS Wrote: By the way, don't they teach you to use Caps at cornell?  Have a nice night.[/q]

Cornellians use them all the time. Has a big red C on front. Says "Screw BU" on back. Keeps the occasional Ithaca rain and snow off.

[Josh '99]

Learn to quote.

[Tom Lento]

[Q]billhoward Wrote:

Is it possible - and this is a Forbes / WSJ kind of argument, the law of reverse consequences - that tenure ultimately provides for less job security and longevity overall - that maybe it drives colleges to reduce the number of professorships, including non-tenured but potentially longer term contractual professorships, in favor of low-paid lecturer positions, maybe without much in the way of benefits, to compensate?
[/q]

I'm sure nobody cares, but. . .

Tenured positions are already being reduced in favor of *much* cheaper adjunct/temp prof positions (more so at state schools than private).  Nowadays, adjuncts often have similar qualifications, get paid far less, receive no benefits, and are on contracts renewable by term, so the University has no commitment to make.  They typically do some research in the hopes of getting published and finding a stable source of income that allows them to earn a living wage (many state schools offer around $1000 per credit hour taught, so a typical adjunct teaching two courses per semester might make $16000/yr before taxes teaching at one school, including summer courses, with no health benefits).

This is partly a reaction to tenure, which can be hugely expensive for the colleges in the long term, and partly a simple short-term economic decision.  Professors who are not on tenure track receive less compensation than those who are, but they have the same basic job description (with less emphasis on research and publication, although if you want a second contract or a tenure track job you'd better keep up with everyone else), multi-year contracts, and full benefits.  Adjuncts receive far less than professors, are only required to teach a couple of classes, and have no security and no benefits.  It's a great way for a university or department to increase the course offerings without spending much money.  Since these courses are taught by professors, it only helps their rankings, so it's really a win-win for the school.  The adjuncts, of course, get screwed.  I wouldn't want to deal with adjuncting for a living - you'd have to teach 4-5 courses per semester, which would certainly be spread out between 2-3 different schools, just to earn a decent living wage.

[KeithK]

I only have experience with engineering, but it seems that a lot of adjunct profs in my field are doing it as a part time thing in addition to their day job.  If so then you're not doing it to earn a living so the low salary isn't a big deal and your benefits are most likely covered by your first job.

Maybe I'm way off base here...

[puff]

[Q]ben03 Wrote:

(h) … i hope the other readers have gotten a bit of a laugh reading our little spat
[/q]


I appreciate the entertainment. i even think i did the quote thing right.

[RichS]

Care to teach me?  :-)

[marty]

Economakos followed his suspension with the first hat trick by an RIP team since Murley in 2002.  In spite of the 8-4 blowout, RIP could have lost this game if Holy Cross had stayed out of the penalty box.