[OT] Best sport facilities (Ivy League)

[Shorts]

There may be some musicians who consider Bailey to be a treasure (I'm guessing perhaps members of the orchestra), but I know of quite a few who would much rather have the treasures out of a red box with a leprechaun on the front.  At times when the seats are not filled, all those un-padded seat backs create some echoes that are downright funky.  Percussion, in particular, is amplified well out of proportion.  As a concrete example, the marching band for the past two years has done recordings in one of the rehearsal rooms in Lincoln Hall, because it just sounds so much better than an empty Bailey.

[Lowell '99]

Perhaps times have changed, but I think that's incorrect.  I don't know a single person who considers Bailey's acoustics good.  That's one of the reasons the new Lincoln Hall had a rehearsal room built into it.  As someone who played in Bailey in different ensembles on many, many different occasions, I'm fairly confident saying it bloweth.  

[Tom Pasniewski 98]

Well if there's one thing I learned is that for Professor Maas' sake, the door to the men's room in Bailey, when completed, should be inpenetrable to all say, wireless mike signals.  Some of you have heard that story.  For those not on campus (and for those who are, correct me if I'm wrong), Bailey was last used at Reunion last year, closed and renovations only began last week.  

On the topic of money to the wrestling center, I at first (several years ago) took Rich's stand in that we don't need a building just for wrestling.  Bill makes a good argument for how money builds a building which just keeps on building.  As a fundraiser, the best thing to do is to tell people that you can do whatever you want with your money in giving it to Cornell and telling them the more they give, the more Cornell will listen to their stipulations.  

Cornell is also running short on land as we see athletic facilities move farther north and farther east and buildings replacing other buildings.  Your pockets can be as deep as you want but $1 billion won't get you the right to put a building where the clock tower is IMHO.

[RichH]

As yet another musician on this board, I'll agree with those who have said that Bailey is quite funky acoustically.  I played in various groups during my 4 years, and I really didn't understand what was good/bad about it until I was able to take in Wind Ensemble concerts as an alumnus and an audience member.  Certain ranges and timbres resonate wonderfully (midrange of tenor trombones), while others are simply eaten up (clarinets, for example).  The effect is a striking unbalance, even within wind sections and percussion.  Here's hoping the redesign team has an acoustic engineer on board.

[Micaela]

[Q]ninian '72 Wrote:

 Princeton, Harvard, and Brown probably have the best facilities for swimming with modern, 50m pools.  Cornell's 6-lane, 25 yard pool is the smallest.  [/q]


I've been told that Teagle's pool is called "the snake pit" by other swimmers/divers.  As a former diver, I would definitely rank it low on my list of aquatic facilities.  

[Micaela]

[Q]ninian '72 Wrote:

 One addendum about Bailey:  Musicians regard the building as a treasure acoustically.  [/q]


If by "musicians" you mean "sadists who enjoy the challenge of playing into the accoustic equivalent of a wet sock."  Trying to make sounds short and crisp is darn near impossible - a task already difficult on wind instruments.  Add in the brass/woodwind balance issues and several dead spots on stage, and you have a performance space that desperately needs revamping.  

I've performed in a couple "flexible" concert halls that can adjust sound dampening to meet the ensemble/audience needs - they can be awesome.  Let's hope they get Bailey right.

[billhoward]

[Q]Tom Pasniewski 98 Wrote:

 Cornell is also running short on land as we see athletic facilities move farther north and farther east and buildings replacing other buildings. Your pockets can be as deep as you want but $1 billion won't get you the right to put a building where the clock tower is IMHO.[/q]

You got that right. We're in the middle of nowhere geographically and still we're running out of space. Ezra Cornell should have done a better job anticipating the internal combustion engine.

There is something to be said for 12-story (okay, 6-story) rather than 3-story buildings to make the most of land.

Cornell is getting to the point where for athletics we're going to have to demolish then build anew.

I wonder if in our lifetime Schoellkopf will give way to a more compact facility?

[billhoward]

[Q]Tom Pasniewski 98 Wrote:

 On the topic of money to the wrestling center, I at first (several years ago) took Rich's stand in that we don't need a building just for wrestling. Bill makes a good argument for how money builds a building which just keeps on building. As a fundraiser, the best thing to do is to tell people that you can do whatever you want with your money in giving it to Cornell and telling them the more they give, the more Cornell will listen to their stipulations.[/q]

A good donor gives money for ...
a) the building and the hopefully the building done right (wasn't the Campus Store supposed to be another 10 feet underground and when the builder hit rock, Cornell decided to let it stick up just a wee bit rather than buy more dynamite, forever obscuring the pedestrian-level view between Day Hall and the Straight? That at least is urban legend.)
b) furnishing the building
c) maintaining the building  (like mopping up the rust spots under Uris Hall's overhang the first 20 years before it took on the purplish oxidized patina that was supposed to show up in about 3 years (had Ithaca had the pollution the architect was probably counting on)

... especially if it's adds not replaces a building on campus.

[Shorts]

[Q]billhoward Wrote:
wasn't the Campus Store supposed to be another 10 feet underground and when the builder hit rock, Cornell decided to let it stick up just a wee bit rather than buy more dynamite, forever obscuring the pedestrian-level view between Day Hall and the Straight? That at least is urban legend.[/q]It's more than just a legend.  As "Dear Uncle Ezra" recently confirmed (while, incidentally, debunking an actual Cornell urban legend) http://ezra.cornell.edu/posting.php?timestamp=1080626400#question9[q]Additionally, when the Cornell Store was constructed it was supposed to be entirely further below ground to preserve the green space between Sage Chapel and Barnes Hall.  When construction began, Ithaca's stubborn rock layers prevented the Store from being constructed as deeply into the earth as planned.  Imagine when that was once a flatter grass surface, how Barnes Hall, Sage Hall, and Sage Chapel with their brick surfaces would all appear more connected.[/q]

[Ben Rocky '04]

Booo Hunter!  'Nuff said.

[billhoward]

[Q]Shorts Wrote:

 [Q2]billhoward Wrote:
wasn't the Campus Store supposed to be another 10 feet underground and when the builder hit rock, Cornell decided to let it stick up just a wee bit rather than buy more dynamite, forever obscuring the pedestrian-level view between Day Hall and the Straight? That at least is urban legend.[/Q]
It's more than just a legend.  As "Dear Uncle Ezra" recently confirmed (while, incidentally, debunking an actual Cornell urban legend) http://ezra.cornell.edu/posting.php?timestamp=1080626400#question9[Q2]Additionally, when the Cornell Store was constructed it was supposed to be entirely further below ground to preserve the green space between Sage Chapel and Barnes Hall.  When construction began, Ithaca's stubborn rock layers prevented the Store from being constructed as deeply into the earth as planned.  Imagine when that was once a flatter grass surface, how Barnes Hall, Sage Hall, and Sage Chapel with their brick surfaces would all appear more connected.[/Q]
[/q]


Which cycles back to a point I made, or think I made, in reference to the wrestling facility and concerns that it's not big enough, not locker-roomed ennough, etcetera: If you're going to give money (or use Cornell money) to build a building, do it right. Two generations (going on three if you were prolific breeders) knows only the angled fortress wall of the campus store when you step out from the Straight. Compare that (if it's possible) to the construction of Lynah in the 1950s, when it could easily have been made a 2,000- or 2,500 seat arena.

I suppose Martha van would be a better example of needing to do the building right the first time.

[ninian '72]

[Q]Micaela Wrote:

 [Q2]ninian '72 Wrote:

 One addendum about Bailey:  Musicians regard the building as a treasure acoustically.  [/Q]
If by "musicians" you mean "sadists who enjoy the challenge of playing into the accoustic equivalent of a wet sock."  Trying to make sounds short and crisp is darn near impossible - a task already difficult on wind instruments.  Add in the brass/woodwind balance issues and several dead spots on stage, and you have a performance space that desperately needs revamping.  

I've performed in a couple "flexible" concert halls that can adjust sound dampening to meet the ensemble/audience needs - they can be awesome.  Let's hope they get Bailey right.[/q]

This is getting way OT for a hockey forum, but I seem to have touched a nerve with wind and percussion players.  String players in my day loved the place, which created a warm, reverberant sound.  Judging from the posts here, this apparently is not what wind players want.  A lot of what happens acoustically in a hall also has to do with placement on the stage, so I can understand that musicians further back on the stage would have a different experience.  I've heard some BRB recordings where the percussion DOES overwhelm almost everyone else.  I wondered whether these guys thought they were outside or what, but if the percussion was in the customary place at the back of the stage, I can understand now why this might have happened.  

FWIW, the original Bailey stage design was somewhat different, and the acoustical properties of the stage today are probably not consistent with what originally existed or what was intended.  Originally there was a large organ installed at the rear of the stage which was used for regular Sunday performances for many years.  There was some sort of catastrophic, storm-related roof failure in the early 60's that resulted in some massive and unrepairable water damage to the organ.  It was removed, and the organ chest was paneled over creating the current acoustical environment.

If the new space at Lincoln is as good as posters say, the current generation of Cornell musicians is incredibly fortunate.  I hope they appreciate what they have.  

In addition to any acoustical tuning, I hope the Bailey renovation results in trashing that funky chandelier, which looks like it was created by some formica-loving designer who drove an Edsel.

[Tom Pasniewski 98]

[Q]Shorts Wrote:

 [Q2]billhoward Wrote:
wasn't the Campus Store supposed to be another 10 feet underground and when the builder hit rock, Cornell decided to let it stick up just a wee bit rather than buy more dynamite, forever obscuring the pedestrian-level view between Day Hall and the Straight? That at least is urban legend.[/Q]
It's more than just a legend.  As "Dear Uncle Ezra" recently confirmed (while, incidentally, debunking an actual Cornell urban legend) http://ezra.cornell.edu/posting.php?timestamp=1080626400#question9[Q2]Additionally, when the Cornell Store was constructed it was supposed to be entirely further below ground to preserve the green space between Sage Chapel and Barnes Hall.  When construction began, Ithaca's stubborn rock layers prevented the Store from being constructed as deeply into the earth as planned.  Imagine when that was once a flatter grass surface, how Barnes Hall, Sage Hall, and Sage Chapel with their brick surfaces would all appear more connected.[/Q]
[/q]

Well than how is it that we managed to put a pit much deeper into the ground not more than 250 feet away from the store in the Kroch Library, which early in my days in high school I did see the pit and I feel sorry for those who had to live with the dynamite blasts that accompanied building the building.  Different rock composition?  More money?  I mean we've dug from England to France, we have the technology to remove 10 feet more of earth.  Kroch is not noticeable save for the few skylights that pop up surrounded by appropriate shrubbery and preserves the view from A.D. White's house down to Old Stone Row and Ithaca below.

[ninian '72]

[Q]Tom Pasniewski 98 Wrote:

 [Q2]Shorts Wrote:

 [Q2]billhoward Wrote:
wasn't the Campus Store supposed to be another 10 feet underground and when the builder hit rock, Cornell decided to let it stick up just a wee bit rather than buy more dynamite, forever obscuring the pedestrian-level view between Day Hall and the Straight? That at least is urban legend.[/Q]
It's more than just a legend.  As "Dear Uncle Ezra" recently confirmed (while, incidentally, debunking an actual Cornell urban legend) http://ezra.cornell.edu/posting.php?timestamp=1080626400#question9[Q2]Additionally, when the Cornell Store was constructed it was supposed to be entirely further below ground to preserve the green space between Sage Chapel and Barnes Hall.  When construction began, Ithaca's stubborn rock layers prevented the Store from being constructed as deeply into the earth as planned.  Imagine when that was once a flatter grass surface, how Barnes Hall, Sage Hall, and Sage Chapel with their brick surfaces would all appear more connected.[/Q]
[/Q]
Well than how is it that we managed to put a pit much deeper into the ground not more than 250 feet away from the store in the Kroch Library, which early in my days in high school I did see the pit and I feel sorry for those who had to live with the dynamite blasts that accompanied building the building.  Different rock composition?  More money?  I mean we've dug from England to France, we have the technology to remove 10 feet more of earth.  Kroch is not noticeable save for the few skylights that pop up surrounded by appropriate shrubbery and preserves the view from A.D. White's house down to Old Stone Row and Ithaca below.[/q]


Is it just possible that the University learned from the Campus Store mistake in site preparation for future buildings? :-)  It's also possible that they were concerned about the potential impact of blasting in close proximity to two old brick buildings.

[billhoward]

Maybe the Campus Store didn't get dug deep enough because somebody didn't dig deep enough into the bank account. Maybe it was a decision by committee, "I think we can all learn to live with that ... agreed? ... now what's next on the agenda?"

The view looking *down* from Day Hall isn't all that bad.