Frozen Four

[billhoward]

+1. And Larry, were you one of the 2,000 who got into that dinky little Princeton size arena?

[Larry72]

Yep -- working part-time for the IJ as a photographer although few of my finals pictures made the paper.  It's surprisingly by today's standards, but that game wasn't considered all that big a deal then.

The next time I came back to Lake Placid was when the "new" Olympic Arena was built in the late 1970s. Spent a few winters in LP doing pre-Olympic photography and then through the 1980 Winter Olympics.  Took my boys through the 1932 Arena the "first time" the ECACs were held there as well as the Olympic Arena.

The Olympic Arena hasn't changed all that much since 1980. Neither has Lake Placid.

[ftyuv]

Honest question here. I didn't get to watch the game, but 7-4 doesn't sound like a game in which either team played a tight, efficient, all-around game worthy of the ages; it sounds like my beer league. So what gives?

[billhoward]

The Olympic Arena hasn't changed all that much since 1980. Neither has Lake Placid.

This is good and bad. Adirondack Life ran a surprisingly blunt story a decade ago on what ails the Adirondacks and a top criticism was all the lodging that was caught in a sixties time warp, one story motels with aluminum folding chairs out front. This outraged the Adirondacks hospitality because it was so true. Downtown LP is better that past 5 years but if you want an active social life, Vermont in winter is better except if you can find a nice place to stay right in town.

My wife's great grandsomething-mother is quaintly described as the first white child born in Lake Placid. We still have the tickets from the USA-Russia game in our archives and an autographed jersey from Jim Craig. No, not in a BU jersey. Too bad we weren't enough of an item then for me to be invited to the game.

I think the ECACs will be okay for its current stay in LP. And if / when it returns to Albany, we'll appreciate Albany's closeness. Cornell makes it to LP, we'll go for the weekend. To Albany, we'll do two day trips from NJ.

[billhoward]

Honest question here. I didn't get to watch the game, but 7-4 doesn't sound like a game in which either team played a tight, efficient, all-around game worthy of the ages; it sounds like my beer league. So what gives?

What gives? Incredible energy and some amazing shots deflected at just the right time, or from the same impossible side angle that beat David LeNeveau in Cornell's foray into Buffalo. I think if you play the game with that much intensity, the result is more goals, not more defense and fewer goals. Defenseman Shayne Gostisbehere played a game for the ages on par with Bobby Orr in the Bruins' 1970 title game, or Cornell's Dan Lodboa (others can regale you) in the 1970 title game in which, if I recall, it was tied at 3 entering the third and Lodboa (a defenseman) had a natural hat track in the span of 7 minutes in the third period. Gostisbehere was the same kind of unreal. He was plus 7 in a 7-4 game, 1G, 2A. And he's from Florida.

Plus the sense this was David and Goliath.

[Larry72]

It was fun to get back to LP this past March.  Only had been there once since the ECACs moved to Albany.  Restaurants are good and diverse (from very affordable to more expensive).  Seems like plenty of places to stay.  There's a brewpub (with brewery) right in the middle of downtown.  Not a lot to do unless you are a skier (Whiteface was very busy) or a back country hiker.  We went to the Olympic Museum (right in the 1980 Olympic Arena).  Lots of artifacts and stories from the 1932 and 1980 Winter Olympics displayed.  The entire 1980 USA-USSR game plays continuously.  We stayed and watched the end of the second period and all of the third period along with about a dozen others. The goal cage and much of Jim Craig's gear is there along with the sticks, skates, and sweaters from several of the players along with the badges from all the players and coaches. I still have my press badge from 1980 and an Olympic tie.  My Nikon wool winter hat has long since disintegrated.

[jkahn]

Sure, sure— +/- is meaningless. But Gostisbehere was +7 in this game.

I haven't seen a guy dominate a game like that since Kariya or Nieuwy.  I haven't seen a defenseman dominate a game like that, ever.

Fuckin' A.  The best part is the Flyers have to write him a blank check.  Oddly, we contained him in a way Minny couldn't.

That Union team was much, much better than Yale 2011 or ever Cornell 2003.  I think we have to go back to the Harvard teams of the late 80's to get an ECAC team that was so perfectly balanced.

Now I hope the fuckers completely implode and never compete again.

I have. :-}

I was thinking the same thing when Melrose made a similar comment after last night's game.

I thought about that same comparison (Dan Lodboa) during Thursday's game.  Saturday night the only valid comparison was Bobby Orr.

I don't know, a natural hat trick in the third period of the championship game, including a 2 men down shortie, is pretty impressive, especially for a defenseman.

It was some of Gostisbehere's skating moves that were Orr-like.  I totally agree with the Lodboa reference though, as well as Larry's comments about Lodboa just not going to let us lose.  Everyone remembers the final that year, but Lodboa was awesome in  different way in the semi vs. Wisconsin.  We were down 1-0 going into the 3rd,  Every time Wisconsin tried to cross into our offensive zone in the 3rd, Dan broke up the play and started the play going the other way,

[adamw]

I've seen 26 Frozen Fours and been to 16 of them, and that was the most remarkable individual performance I've seen. The only thing perhaps on par was Kariya/Montgomery in '93 - and Nathan Gerbe scoring 5 goals in the 2008 FF, including 2-2--4 in the final.  But those guys didn't do the kind of everything that Gostisbehere did. And a lot of the stuff he did even goes beyond the +7 - like his spin-a-rama ... and the deke/bank shot off the boards one way, while skating around the defender the other way, and getting the puck on the other side ... or breaking up a sure 2-on-1 SH chance for Minnesota with a sliding block at the blue line. Another time, he stopped a shot in the crease, a la his 3-save performance against Providence in the Regional.

Heckuva fun team to watch.

I have to assume he's gone. Although good on him for going back to Schnectady first to enjoy the celebration.

[RichH]

I think we have to go back to the Harvard teams of the late 80's to get an ECAC team that was so perfectly balanced.

Union certainly reminded me of those Harvard teams. ('97, but season tickets since 1987–88.) Every pass had purpose and velocity. There was a trailer, sometimes two, after every shot to scoop up rebounds. When necessary, they scored dirty goals.

I'm sure our team was watching; I hope they take those particular lessons to heart.

I'm sure all the associated naysayers on here will scoff, and perhaps it's just my Carnelian-tinted specs, but I don't see an overwhelming talent differential between us and Union. I've seen Ryan do a lot of things that Gostisbehere does; Bardreau can do the things Ciampini does. I think Hilbrich is poised for an enormous breakout year, and, paired with proper linemates, may start to dominate games offensively in ways that we haven't seen in a while and in a way that Union doesn't. MacDonald = Bodie... you can go on.

What Union had was what makes every moving part mesh and drive toward one common goal. It's what was missing from the 2013 Cornell team; it's what the 2014 team started to relearn. It's what drives guys to take one strong stride to make sure there's a trailer on every chance, to block every shot possible, to keep mental focus, to sacrifice the body in order to sweep up the garbage in front of the net. Put simply: teamwork.

If one of our crop of goalies turns out, I expect, even without Ferlin, it's going to be a pretty great ride next year.

That is some set of glasses. This year we played Union 3 times and the beat us 3 times 3-0, 4-1 and 5-2. All told the collective score was 12-3. If our talent was rougly equivalent, the why were we so soundly thrashed. If Cornell was not playing as a team what specific steps should be taken to change this?

My argument: Both Union and Cornell had few graduation losses last season, so I'll claim the overall team make-up remained reletively constant for each from 2013 into 2014.  The last time Union beat Cornell before this season was Feb. 2011.  This isn't the same situation of Cornell vs. Yale, where during the rise of Yale's program, we couldn't get a sniff of success.  

From 2009-2013, Cornell was 2-10-0 vs. Yale, including an 8-game losing streak.
From 2010-2014, Cornell was 5-5-2 vs. Union.

I judge this year's Union team to be much stronger and complete than Yale's chamionship team.  Unlike Yale, they entered the tournament as one of the top favorites, and won each of their playoff games in decisive fashion.

I was at the Cornell-Union game in Schenectady, and it was a miserable game to watch. Both teams showed up with sloppy, unorganized offenses. This was the time of the season where Cornell was struggling to reach 15 SOG (they got 11). Eventually, Union perked up enough to poke one home in the 2nd, and controlled the 3rd enough to pot two.  Generally, it was the worst Cornell performance I've seen in a while, but I never even considered Union to be the powerhouse they turned out to be.

I thought the ECAC SF was a huge difference for both teams. Cornell played really well. They executed their defensive strategy to pushing the Union fowards away from the slot and towards the wider boards.  By that point, Union was the team we saw this weekend.  What happened between Nov. and Feb. with Union is what Scersk was drawing on.  Was it extra work? The right chemistry clicking on their 3-4 lines? Coaching decisions? Hell if I know, and I don't think any fan on this forum can answer that question either.  But I think Cornell has talent in the same ballpark as Union does.

[RichH]

I've seen 26 Frozen Fours and been to 16 of them, and that was the most remarkable individual performance I've seen. The only thing perhaps on par was Kariya/Montgomery in '93 - and Nathan Gerbe scoring 5 goals in the 2008 FF, including 2-2--4 in the final.  But those guys didn't do the kind of everything that Gostisbehere did. And a lot of the stuff he did even goes beyond the +7 - like his spin-a-rama ... and the deke/bank shot off the boards one way, while skating around the defender the other way, and getting the puck on the other side ... or breaking up a sure 2-on-1 SH chance for Minnesota with a sliding block at the blue line. Another time, he stopped a shot in the crease, a la his 3-save performance against Providence in the Regional.

Heckuva fun team to watch.

I have to assume he's gone. Although good on him for going back to Schnectady first to enjoy the celebration.

Nicely put. I've never heard an entire arena gasp like that, and it wasn't even for scoring plays or shots. At what a single player did multiple times.  The entire arena was buzzing like very few games in my memory.  I used to put Ryan in the same bin as Gostibehere and Bodie in terms of talent. Gostibehere built an entire new bin as I watched him the past month. Special player.  Remarkable Frozen Four.

And great job to Adam and the CHN crew. Terrific coverage this week, if anybody hasn't checked it out yet.

[adamw]

Thanks Rich ... In particular, Joe Meloni's Gostisbehere story was good:
http://www.collegehockeynews.com/news/2014/04/13_from_star_to_legend.php

Sorry I didn't get a chance to meet up with you guys. These days, everything including sleep is getting sacrificed.

[Josh '99]

Honest question here. I didn't get to watch the game, but 7-4 doesn't sound like a game in which either team played a tight, efficient, all-around game worthy of the ages; it sounds like my beer league. So what gives?

What gives? Incredible energy and some amazing shots deflected at just the right time, or from the same impossible side angle that beat David LeNeveau in Cornell's foray into Buffalo. I think if you play the game with that much intensity, the result is more goals, not more defense and fewer goals.

I disagree.  There were a ton of shots on goal for both teams, yes, but at the same time there were also some just plain bad goals for the goalies to give up.  Stevens struggled to control his rebounds all game, leading to at least a couple of Minnesota's goals (someone else remarked upthread that he didn't look great, I think), and Wilcox probably wanted at least a couple of Union's back.  I don't think either team could claim they played a "tight" game with 89 combined shots.

[Jim Hyla]

Honest question here. I didn't get to watch the game, but 7-4 doesn't sound like a game in which either team played a tight, efficient, all-around game worthy of the ages; it sounds like my beer league. So what gives?

What gives? Incredible energy and some amazing shots deflected at just the right time, or from the same impossible side angle that beat David LeNeveau in Cornell's foray into Buffalo. I think if you play the game with that much intensity, the result is more goals, not more defense and fewer goals.

I disagree.  There were a ton of shots on goal for both teams, yes, but at the same time there were also some just plain bad goals for the goalies to give up.  Stevens struggled to control his rebounds all game, leading to at least a couple of Minnesota's goals (someone else remarked upthread that he didn't look great, I think), and Wilcox probably wanted at least a couple of Union's back.  I don't think either team could claim they played a "tight" game with 89 combined shots.

Agree, it was a great game to watch, but hardly top quality defense. After Stevens early play, I figured Union was done for. At least until Minny's defense allowed Union to do whatever they wanted to do.

[RichH]

Time for a roast: I've taken a lot of shots at Union through the years. It drove me nuts when they were the league bottom-feeders, and still took points from good Cornell teams. I shouted loudly on this forum many times that the ECAC should trade them for RIT. I take some of those instances back, I guess.

There were more Union fans in their corner of the Wells Fargo Center than can fit in their dumpy home arena. I don't know if the TV broadcast picked up on it, but the North Dakota fans were actively leading Union cheers at times. Since Union's style of cheering is usually to wait for opposing fans to start a cheer and then scream "U!" over it, it was amusing to hear the "Let's Go Gophers" cheer try to cover theirs up for once.

The Union Band did OK, considering that before 2010, the "Union Band" consisted of overweight locals shaking milk jugs full of pennies. It seems their band settled on playing Cee Lo's "Fuck You" as their penalty song...I point this out because Cornell's band (at least in the past) has been told that they are forbidden from playing it.  

Given that North Dakota and Minnesota brought their cheerleaders, it's too bad Union didn't send out their own cheerleading squad: 12 year-olds running around calling everybody else "gay."

And I can't say I've ever seen the "U" hand-signal that was omni-present during the final. I hate to think how many times that's going to get waved in my face every time I visit Achilles just for wearing a shirt with my school's name on it.

But OK, OK. Congratulations to them.  I hated to be happy for them, but I was.  And I really liked the moment the RPI AD (serving as the NCAA Hockey Committee Chair) had to hand over the National Championship trophy to a Capital District rival. I guess this success cements Union as the SLU to RPI's Clarkson.  I'll

Since I just missed the UConn "dual champions" parade past my home in Hartford (darn it all), it hit me that Minnesota should have a parade through Dinkytown marking the fact that they are "Dual Runners-Up" having lost both hockey finals to two small Upstate NY schools.  "State of 2nd Place Hockey!"

One last curiosity: All four NCAA hockey champions are NCAA Division-III schools.

D1 Men:    Union
D1 Women:  Clarkson
D3 Men:    St. Norbert's
D3 Women:  SUNY-Plattsburg

A billhoward "If Only" special: If Only SUNY-Geneseo or SUNY-Oswego had found a way to win the D3 Men's FF (both lost their semi-final), that would have been a clean sweep for New York.

[Jim Hyla]

Time for a roast: I've taken a lot of shots at Union through the years. It drove me nuts when they were the league bottom-feeders, and still took points from good Cornell teams. I shouted loudly on this forum many times that the ECAC should trade them for RIT. I take some of those instances back, I guess.

There were more Union fans in their corner of the Wells Fargo Center than can fit in their dumpy home arena. I don't know if the TV broadcast picked up on it, but the North Dakota fans were actively leading Union cheers at times. Since Union's style of cheering is usually to wait for opposing fans to start a cheer and then scream "U!" over it, it was amusing to hear the "Let's Go Gophers" cheer try to cover theirs up for once.

The Union Band did OK, considering that before 2010, the "Union Band" consisted of overweight locals shaking milk jugs full of pennies. It seems their band settled on playing Cee Lo's "Fuck You" as their penalty song...I point this out because Cornell's band (at least in the past) has been told that they are forbidden from playing it.  

Given that North Dakota and Minnesota brought their cheerleaders, it's too bad Union didn't send out their own cheerleading squad: 12 year-olds running around calling everybody else "gay."

And I can't say I've ever seen the "U" hand-signal that was omni-present during the final. I hate to think how many times that's going to get waved in my face every time I visit Achilles just for wearing a shirt with my school's name on it.

But OK, OK. Congratulations to them.  I hated to be happy for them, but I was.  And I really liked the moment the RPI AD (serving as the NCAA Hockey Committee Chair) had to hand over the National Championship trophy to a Capital District rival. I guess this success cements Union as the SLU to RPI's Clarkson.  I'll

Since I just missed the UConn "dual champions" parade past my home in Hartford (darn it all), it hit me that Minnesota should have a parade through Dinkytown marking the fact that they are "Dual Runners-Up" having lost both hockey finals to two small Upstate NY schools.  "State of 2nd Place Hockey!"

One last curiosity: All four NCAA hockey champions are NCAA Division-III schools.

D1 Men:    Union
D1 Women:  Clarkson
D3 Men:    St. Norbert's
D3 Women:  SUNY-Plattsburg

A billhoward "If Only" special: If Only SUNY-Geneseo or SUNY-Oswego had found a way to win the D3 Men's FF (both lost their semi-final), that would have been a clean sweep for New York.

On TV it looked like the Union band was larger than they usually have at home games. Any idea how many were there? I was wondering whether they had some alumni added to the students.