Cornell Hockey Gear (incl. 2010 ECAC Championship) on Clearance

[Beeeej]

You know perfectly well that I'm talking about results over a long period of time. Like my message from last weekend:
http://elf.elynah.com/read.php?1,176833,177015#msg-177015

And anyway, even if we were having the parity discussion again, who's to say that we're not just at an unfortunately skewed end of that long period of time?  Maybe Cornell will win seven Frozen Fours over the next twelve years to balance it all out.  ::whistle::

[Rosey]

Yes, I know exactly what you're talking about.  And I'm saying we're talking about different things.  Saying that tournament games seem to be up for grabs more than they used to, and that no result would be that surprising, isn't the same as suggesting that there's genuine parity in the game.

Ok, IAWYASYN.

[RichH]

I want Union to win this weekend, but only if Cornell does too. Ideally, I would like to see a Cornell-Union rematch in the Frozen Four (however, I don't see either team making it to the Frozen Four).

I think Union's actually got a halfway decent shot at it.

And quite frankly, I didn't see the 2006 Cornell team making it past the first round, but they did, and then took the eventual national champion to triple overtime.  Nothing would surprise me anymore.

It used to be a pretty safe bet that the National Champion was going to come from a pool of 3-4 teams that dominated the entire season.  I feel that era is gone...the tournament wins by Holy Cross and Air Force signaled it, and it's been hammered home by the FF appearances by Bemidji and RIT.  It's a pretty wide-open field this year.  Remember how easy it was to flip us to a 1 seed by changing 1 result.

Red Berenson himself said it himself last weekend:

"Let's face it, we're not that good...We're not any better than anybody else, but I don't think we're any worse than anyone else."

I'll believe in the parity myth when there is an ECAC team in the Frozen Four 4 out of every 5 years and an ECAC champion 1 out of every 5 years. Until then, it's horseshit, plain and simple.

Wow, dude.  My point was simply that the "top dogs" nationally are no longer unbeatable juggernauts, illustrated by the coach of the #2 overall seed saying that they aren't that good.  How you read that into my suggesting that the ECAC is back as a "Big 4" conference, I'll never understand, but hey when you have an axe to grind, go after anything that looks like a stone.  Jeez.

[Rosey]

Wow, dude.  My point was simply that the "top dogs" nationally are no longer unbeatable juggernauts, illustrated by the coach of the #2 overall seed saying that they aren't that good.  How you read that into my suggesting that the ECAC is back as a "Big 4" conference, I'll never understand, but hey when you have an axe to grind, go after anything that looks like a stone.  Jeez.

I think you should read it more as bitterness on my part than anything else: it's gracious of Red to say so, but the fact is that the usual big names are almost always there at the end of the season regardless of how much things might have evened out over the years. Anyway, no offense to you was intended.

[RichH]

Wow, dude.  My point was simply that the "top dogs" nationally are no longer unbeatable juggernauts, illustrated by the coach of the #2 overall seed saying that they aren't that good.  How you read that into my suggesting that the ECAC is back as a "Big 4" conference, I'll never understand, but hey when you have an axe to grind, go after anything that looks like a stone.  Jeez.

I think you should read it more as bitterness on my part than anything else: it's gracious of Red to say so, but the fact is that the usual big names are almost always there at the end of the season regardless of how much things might have evened out over the years. Anyway, no offense to you was intended.

No problem, and I share your frustration.

I must admit that for whatever reason, I've completely ignored the CCHA this year.  But man, they got five teams in, and a team that didn't win either of their regular season or tournament titles is sitting as the #2 overall NCAA seed.  In fact there are only 3 CCHA teams not to have made the NCAAs in the past three years (Ohio St., Lake St., Bowling Green).  Back in the day, I used to label the CCHA as "Michigan, Michigan St., and a bunch of filler."  That's a conference that has gotten its act together.

[RatushnyFan]

Miami has been a pretty solid program since '96 or so.  WMU and Notre Dame have really improved as well.  As a Michigan fan in my spare time (e.g. second fiddle to Cornell), I'm sad to see Michigan going to a lame Big 10 conference with 6 teams.  I feel that some teams are left out to dry and I think a 6 team conference (with in all likelihood one team that will be lame for years, PSU) is really weak.

I'm interested in whether Cornell fans care about what's going on across other conferences and whether you view it as a positive or negative.

[css228]

Miami has been a pretty solid program since '96 or so.  WMU and Notre Dame have really improved as well.  As a Michigan fan in my spare time (e.g. second fiddle to Cornell), I'm sad to see Michigan going to a lame Big 10 conference with 6 teams.  I feel that some teams are left out to dry and I think a 6 team conference (with in all likelihood one team that will be lame for years, PSU) is really weak.

I'm interested in whether Cornell fans care about what's going on across other conferences and whether you view it as a positive or negative.

I don't necessarily see a BTHC as a negative, but I don't like their lack of respect for the current system (see rotating tourney site). For obvious reasons, they don't really care if they massively change the landscape and weaken other programs and conferences, but at the same time, the sport is more entertaining because of the small schools playing, and often beating, the big boys. I'd love to see more exposure, but not if it would risk the ability for schools like Cornell to compete, which it might. I don't really have too much else to say about it because it really hasn't affected the ECAC at this point, but I have to say that the Big Ten program I have the best opinion about following the formation of the conference is Minnesota, because they were ultimately forced into a Big Ten move by the other schools. From what I understand, they didn't want to lose their traditional Minnesota and WCHA rivalries that are now at risk due to a limited OOC schedule. I hope there's still room for Sioux - Gophers because rivalries like that are just good for the sport and because I'm on the east coast so I really don't have to listen to either of their insufferable fan bases go on about their hockey superiority.

[RatushnyFan]

Sorry about the thread drift.  How could they have a limited OOC schedule when they have 5 conference opponents?  I guess North Dakota and others may have limitations.

I think we agree in some ways.  I think schools like BGSU and LSSU were hung out to dry and given no consideration.  Miami is a relatively small school and they've turned into a consistent winner.  I will miss Michigan playing some of the smaller schools for sure and I really don't like playing the same teams over and over again.

[Beeeej]

Miami has been a pretty solid program since '96 or so.  WMU and Notre Dame have really improved as well.  As a Michigan fan in my spare time (e.g. second fiddle to Cornell), I'm sad to see Michigan going to a lame Big 10 conference with 6 teams.  I feel that some teams are left out to dry and I think a 6 team conference (with in all likelihood one team that will be lame for years, PSU) is really weak.

I think PSU has the will and the money to build a fairly successful program men's hockey within 3-4 years.

[css228]

Sorry about the thread drift.  How could they have a limited OOC schedule when they have 5 conference opponents?  I guess North Dakota and others may have limitations.

I think we agree in some ways.  I think schools like BGSU and LSSU were hung out to dry and given no consideration.  Miami is a relatively small school and they've turned into a consistent winner.  I will miss Michigan playing some of the smaller schools for sure and I really don't like playing the same teams over and over again.

Yeah other schools have a limited schedule, and even then, the Big 10 schools don't have enough games to go around for all their former conference opponents and their traditional out of conference games. By the time Michigan has all of its conference games, games against big time OOC opponents, games against former conference rivals like Notre Dame, what is left for the other Michigan schools? Even if they play Michigan won't be coming to their rink. It is what it is, but its definitely sad.

[jtn27]

Miami has been a pretty solid program since '96 or so.  WMU and Notre Dame have really improved as well.  As a Michigan fan in my spare time (e.g. second fiddle to Cornell), I'm sad to see Michigan going to a lame Big 10 conference with 6 teams.  I feel that some teams are left out to dry and I think a 6 team conference (with in all likelihood one team that will be lame for years, PSU) is really weak.

I'm interested in whether Cornell fans care about what's going on across other conferences and whether you view it as a positive or negative.

Strangely, not all Michigan fans agree with you. Some seem to think the Big 10 Conference will be an upgrade over the CCHA. https://twitter.com/#!/ChildrenOfYost/status/181238499868033024

There are 364 days until Michigan leaves the CCHA. #thankgod #oneyearsworthoffrustration

I don't see how a 6 team conference that includes a school that doesn't even have a hockey team right now could possibly be better than an 11 school conference with 5 teams in this year's NCAA Tournament.

[jtn27]

Sorry. Duplicate post, and I couldn't figure out how to delete the second post.

[RichH]

Miami has been a pretty solid program since '96 or so.  WMU and Notre Dame have really improved as well.

Miami has had more weak than strong seasons since 1996. It wasn't until 2006 when they became a national contender.  WMU was 4-17-7 in that league as recently as 2010, and this is the first time they've finished higher than 4th since 1986.  Notre Dame had a nice run between '07-'11, but picked a good time to start sinking, right before the move to HEA.  I have a long-standing beef with Notre Dame, mainly because with the emergence of the online college hockey community in the mid-90s, I got really tired of people saying "this will be the year ND becomes a hockey power." every year.  I only took them until 2007 to be right.

[RatushnyFan]

I agree on WMU but I think that Notre Dame will be here to stay.  I believe in Jeff Jackson, pure and simple.  Look what he did both at LSSU and Notre Dame.  Wow  He inherited a strong program at the time at LSSU but Notre Dame was weak.

Miami has 12 seasons above .500 since and including '96-'97 and only 4 seasons below .500.  They have been outstanding.  Miami record

[Aaron M. Griffin]

Strangely, not all Michigan fans agree with you. Some seem to think the Big 10 Conference will be an upgrade over the CCHA.

I don't see how a 6 team conference that includes a school that doesn't even have a hockey team right now could possibly be better than an 11 school conference with 5 teams in this year's NCAA Tournament.

You misunderstand the mentality of the insitutions of the Big Ten. The Big Ten is not only an athletic conference, but a sense of identity, much like the Ivy League in that respect. So, many Wolverines view their natural place as among their peers in the Big Ten. It is an organization that many refer to as almost having a familial quality. So, while they lament the passing of an era of the CCHA and their traditional rivals it has the feeling of a homecoming of sorts to many of the students and teams of the Big Ten.

Also, I assume you mean Penn State does not have a hockey team. Well, they have been recruiting Division I-level prospects for over a year, many played for Penn State in its last club year. They have begun to encroach on the recruitment prospects and territory of BC, BU, Cornell, and Michigan. A recently committed defenseman was recruited by both Cornell and Michigan. I've watched many of their games including their game against Division III Neumann at Citizens Bank Park. The team lacks some finesse and rigorous systemics, but Gadowsky had the team improved markedly by the end of the season. Penn State finished third in the ACHA Divison I national tournament when it was upset in the ACHA DI semifinals. Not that flattering of a result one might think, but one must consider that Gadowsky chose to bench his points leader during the loss because he engaged in chirping with a goaltender who had headbutted him earlier in the game that precipitated a fight. Gadowsky stated that he would not tolerate it. Beeeej is exactly right. I think Penn State will be competitive in three years and begin to show dominance in five. The only element of the game they lack is goaltending. They've recruited a new goaltender for next year. They've booked Air Force, Wisconsin, RIT, Michigan State, Ohio State, and Union for next season at least. I know I'm hoping for some points for Penn State out of their weekend at Messa Rink. Penn State will be competitive, I hope that Cornell does not underestimate them on the not all too unlikely chance that they play in Lynah next season.