ECAC Finals Weekend not on TV

[CowbellGuy]

Nothwithstanding as someone else said - what does the location of the tournament have to do with TV (if anything, it improves the odds) .... Do you understand the decision to go to Atlantic City was not Steve Hagwell's?  It was a 9-3 vote of athletic directors - the people that decide on any major decision, including Cornell's and everyone else's.  Hagwell had nothing to do with it.

Who had the meetings with the Atlantic City Chamber of Commerce?  The twelve athletic directors?

The league solicits bids.  The league office takes the bids, and brings them to the ADs to vote.  The ADs went with Atlantic City because it promised a large guarantee that no other place would do.  And there's too many coaches that don't want to be in Lake Placid because of the large ice surface.  And no one wanted to be back Albany except maybe Union and RPI.  So options were limited.

Yet, RPI is producing this year's tourney for the internets. I would think that the only thing missing is the network willing to take the feed.

The production quality needed for an internet stream is not what's going to be needed for a television broadcast. Plus add in renting satellite time and it's apples and oranges.

[jtn27]

Just hold it in Lynah, dammit.

Agreed. But at the very least, if they want to be fair, they can hold it in the rink of the highest remaining seed every year.

[css228]

Just hold it in Lynah, dammit.

This is actually probably the best possible solution out there. Too bad the rest of the league would cry bloody murder.

[css228]

Hagwell has to go, because he's going to run the league into the ground.

Seems to me that blaming Hagwell for the league's lack of money and marketability is a little like blaming Sandy Alderson for the Mets' lack of money and marketability.  At the end of the day, it's ownership, not management.  The ECAC member schools are not willing to front the money for things like TV contracts and marketing and the championship venue, and not willing to erode academic qualifications that hold back the league from competing with the other majors.

Put that way, it is not an unmitigated bad thing.  It might be fun to be Minnesota from time to time, but do you really want to be Minnesota all the time?

This is exactly right Greg.  The ECAC schools have to be willing to do certain things, and they are not - and somehow the league office becomes a scapegoat ... Perhaps there are perfectly good reasons all around for why things are the way they are.  The ECAC is what it is.  Embrace it.  That said, it would be nice to figure out a way to get on TV.

A commissioner's responsibility is to work in the best interests of the league. Hagwell is stuck in place, not doing a damn thing about the incompetent officiating (I've never seen a league where there are as many offsides calls where the puck never crosses into the offensive zone as the ECAC), the league's marketability, or even finding a reasonable tourney site where we don't look like idiots for not even being able to fill a quarter of the building. When the NHL was struggling, Bettman led an initiative to revolutionize the game. Hagwell reminds me more of Bud Selig, a commissioner who has no clue what hes doing and ruins the integrity and marketability of the league in the process. I understand the ECAC will never be a big deal, but the fact that they can't even be broadcast on Time Warner Cable Sports is just embarrassing. Once again the AHA has a contract. The league dropped the ball on this. Because there is no way a league with 6 highly recognizable names in it is less marketable than the AHA, which the only schools I had heard of before coming to Cornell were RIT, Robert Morris, Army, and Air Force. CHN hardly ever covers the league (Mostly because no one outside of it cares), Its not a matter of sacrificing standards to be marketable. I mean Cornell has a great product that sells out, without compromising its academic standards. It's a matter of a pretty good product, which no one has thought of a creative way to sell. Yes we're never going to be a huge league. I get that, but that doesn't mean the league offices don't have every responsibility to make the best out of what they can do. If that means Albany, so be it. But AC is just an example of how incompetent our league heads really are. It didn't have to come to this point. The fact that we are here says everything I need to know about league leadership.

[marty]

Just hold it in Lynah, dammit.

Agreed. But at the very least, if they want to be fair, they can hold it in the rink of the highest remaining seed every year.

So this year at Union in Schenectady in a rink that seats 2225?::screwy::

[Jim Hyla]

Hagwell has to go, because he's going to run the league into the ground.

Seems to me that blaming Hagwell for the league's lack of money and marketability is a little like blaming Sandy Alderson for the Mets' lack of money and marketability.  At the end of the day, it's ownership, not management.  The ECAC member schools are not willing to front the money for things like TV contracts and marketing and the championship venue, and not willing to erode academic qualifications that hold back the league from competing with the other majors.

Put that way, it is not an unmitigated bad thing.  It might be fun to be Minnesota from time to time, but do you really want to be Minnesota all the time?

This is exactly right Greg.  The ECAC schools have to be willing to do certain things, and they are not - and somehow the league office becomes a scapegoat ... Perhaps there are perfectly good reasons all around for why things are the way they are.  The ECAC is what it is.  Embrace it.  That said, it would be nice to figure out a way to get on TV.

A commissioner's responsibility is to work in the best interests of the league. Hagwell is stuck in place, not doing a damn thing about the incompetent officiating (I've never seen a league where there are as many offsides calls where the puck never crosses into the offensive zone as the ECAC), the league's marketability, or even finding a reasonable tourney site where we don't look like idiots for not even being able to fill a quarter of the building. When the NHL was struggling, Bettman led an initiative to revolutionize the game. Hagwell reminds me more of Bud Selig, a commissioner who has no clue what hes doing and ruins the integrity and marketability of the league in the process. I understand the ECAC will never be a big deal, but the fact that they can't even be broadcast on Time Warner Cable Sports is just embarrassing. Once again the AHA has a contract. The league dropped the ball on this. Because there is no way a league with 6 highly recognizable names in it is less marketable than the AHA, which the only schools I had heard of before coming to Cornell were RIT, Robert Morris, Army, and Air Force. CHN hardly ever covers the league (Mostly because no one outside of it cares), Its not a matter of sacrificing standards to be marketable. I mean Cornell has a great product that sells out, without compromising its academic standards. It's a matter of a pretty good product, which no one has thought of a creative way to sell. Yes we're never going to be a huge league. I get that, but that doesn't mean the league offices don't have every responsibility to make the best out of what they can do. If that means Albany, so be it. But AC is just an example of how incompetent our league heads really are. It didn't have to come to this point. The fact that we are here says everything I need to know about league leadership.

What is it about Adam's post that you do not understand?

The league solicits bids. The league office takes the bids, and brings them to the ADs to vote. The ADs went with Atlantic City because it promised a large guarantee that no other place would do. And there's too many coaches that don't want to be in Lake Placid because of the large ice surface. And no one wanted to be back Albany except maybe Union and RPI. So options were limited.

The member schools are not being dragged around by their noses. I guess that's hard to understand, but it's true. They picked AC, unfortunately, and now we have to live with it. As I've said many times, it seems like a lousy decision, but it was made by "our" schools. Hopefully they can change it, but complaining about the people who administer decisions made by the schools is rather ridiculous, in my opinion. If you want to complain to someone who can change things, complain to your school, and offer to try and help. Sure there's nothing you or I can do, but offering may get you further in discussion. It's sure better than posting complaints here.

[css228]

Hagwell has to go, because he's going to run the league into the ground.

Seems to me that blaming Hagwell for the league's lack of money and marketability is a little like blaming Sandy Alderson for the Mets' lack of money and marketability.  At the end of the day, it's ownership, not management.  The ECAC member schools are not willing to front the money for things like TV contracts and marketing and the championship venue, and not willing to erode academic qualifications that hold back the league from competing with the other majors.

Put that way, it is not an unmitigated bad thing.  It might be fun to be Minnesota from time to time, but do you really want to be Minnesota all the time?

This is exactly right Greg.  The ECAC schools have to be willing to do certain things, and they are not - and somehow the league office becomes a scapegoat ... Perhaps there are perfectly good reasons all around for why things are the way they are.  The ECAC is what it is.  Embrace it.  That said, it would be nice to figure out a way to get on TV.

A commissioner's responsibility is to work in the best interests of the league. Hagwell is stuck in place, not doing a damn thing about the incompetent officiating (I've never seen a league where there are as many offsides calls where the puck never crosses into the offensive zone as the ECAC), the league's marketability, or even finding a reasonable tourney site where we don't look like idiots for not even being able to fill a quarter of the building. When the NHL was struggling, Bettman led an initiative to revolutionize the game. Hagwell reminds me more of Bud Selig, a commissioner who has no clue what hes doing and ruins the integrity and marketability of the league in the process. I understand the ECAC will never be a big deal, but the fact that they can't even be broadcast on Time Warner Cable Sports is just embarrassing. Once again the AHA has a contract. The league dropped the ball on this. Because there is no way a league with 6 highly recognizable names in it is less marketable than the AHA, which the only schools I had heard of before coming to Cornell were RIT, Robert Morris, Army, and Air Force. CHN hardly ever covers the league (Mostly because no one outside of it cares), Its not a matter of sacrificing standards to be marketable. I mean Cornell has a great product that sells out, without compromising its academic standards. It's a matter of a pretty good product, which no one has thought of a creative way to sell. Yes we're never going to be a huge league. I get that, but that doesn't mean the league offices don't have every responsibility to make the best out of what they can do. If that means Albany, so be it. But AC is just an example of how incompetent our league heads really are. It didn't have to come to this point. The fact that we are here says everything I need to know about league leadership.

What is it about Adam's post that you do not understand?

The league solicits bids. The league office takes the bids, and brings them to the ADs to vote. The ADs went with Atlantic City because it promised a large guarantee that no other place would do. And there's too many coaches that don't want to be in Lake Placid because of the large ice surface. And no one wanted to be back Albany except maybe Union and RPI. So options were limited.

The member schools are not being dragged around by their noses. I guess that's hard to understand, but it's true. They picked AC, unfortunately, and now we have to live with it. As I've said many times, it seems like a lousy decision, but it was made by "our" schools. Hopefully they can change it, but complaining about the people who administer decisions made by the schools is rather ridiculous, in my opinion. If you want to complain to someone who can change things, complain to your school, and offer to try and help. Sure there's nothing you or I can do, but offering may get you further in discussion. It's sure better than posting complaints here.

It's not that I don't understand that. All I'm saying is that the league could have gotten creative and come back with better bids. If AC is the most appealing bid they can get to bring back to the schools, then the league office has failed. Besides, if I were a betting man, my money would be on Cornell as one of the three that voted against AC. Furthermore, my use of here was probably not specific enough, as it referred to not only the location of the tournament, but the lack of the TV contract, the horrid officiating, and the all around state of the league generally not doing anything to improve its situation.

*Example of the kind of creative thinking that would have been appreciated. Perhaps the league could have tried the NHL network. They show Canadian Junior Hockey in America on a regular basis, and almost all of their nightly coverage is just NHL tonight hours and hours on end. Did anyone ever consider that perhaps they might televise the ECAC tournament?

[upprdeck]

If they couldnt get a live feed why not at least get a time delayed broadcast someplace? And why the talk about Sat time?  They can feed it right to the internet for TV feed, TW already does it that way for many broadcasts. if they wanted to keep costs low that could have and still had a better than internet feed to work with.

[Chris '03]

If you want to complain to someone who can change things, complain to your school, and offer to try and help. Sure there's nothing you or I can do, but offering may get you further in discussion. It's sure better than posting complaints here.

To be fair, that's a little too simplistic. For the ECAC schools for which hockey is not a revenue sport, they will go wherever the $$ is the best no matter what. Do you think the administration at Brown cares whether the tournament is in Placid, Boston, or Boise? If Boise came with a guaranteed take, they'd probably vote for it over Boston. My guess is Cornell wouldn't* and I'd be preaching to the choir telling them (my school) to not ship the tournament to Idaho.

And of course, whining here gets nowhere productive. I'm not sure whining to CU gets me anywhere. Short of promising a big check for moving the tournament elsewhere, what can someone actually "offer to try and help"? And I don't mean that rhetorically. I'm curious what you had in mind.

*-though that assessment includes some measure of optimism

[Jim Hyla]

Hagwell has to go, because he's going to run the league into the ground.

Seems to me that blaming Hagwell for the league's lack of money and marketability is a little like blaming Sandy Alderson for the Mets' lack of money and marketability.  At the end of the day, it's ownership, not management.  The ECAC member schools are not willing to front the money for things like TV contracts and marketing and the championship venue, and not willing to erode academic qualifications that hold back the league from competing with the other majors.

Put that way, it is not an unmitigated bad thing.  It might be fun to be Minnesota from time to time, but do you really want to be Minnesota all the time?

This is exactly right Greg.  The ECAC schools have to be willing to do certain things, and they are not - and somehow the league office becomes a scapegoat ... Perhaps there are perfectly good reasons all around for why things are the way they are.  The ECAC is what it is.  Embrace it.  That said, it would be nice to figure out a way to get on TV.

A commissioner's responsibility is to work in the best interests of the league. Hagwell is stuck in place, not doing a damn thing about the incompetent officiating (I've never seen a league where there are as many offsides calls where the puck never crosses into the offensive zone as the ECAC), the league's marketability, or even finding a reasonable tourney site where we don't look like idiots for not even being able to fill a quarter of the building. When the NHL was struggling, Bettman led an initiative to revolutionize the game. Hagwell reminds me more of Bud Selig, a commissioner who has no clue what hes doing and ruins the integrity and marketability of the league in the process. I understand the ECAC will never be a big deal, but the fact that they can't even be broadcast on Time Warner Cable Sports is just embarrassing. Once again the AHA has a contract. The league dropped the ball on this. Because there is no way a league with 6 highly recognizable names in it is less marketable than the AHA, which the only schools I had heard of before coming to Cornell were RIT, Robert Morris, Army, and Air Force. CHN hardly ever covers the league (Mostly because no one outside of it cares), Its not a matter of sacrificing standards to be marketable. I mean Cornell has a great product that sells out, without compromising its academic standards. It's a matter of a pretty good product, which no one has thought of a creative way to sell. Yes we're never going to be a huge league. I get that, but that doesn't mean the league offices don't have every responsibility to make the best out of what they can do. If that means Albany, so be it. But AC is just an example of how incompetent our league heads really are. It didn't have to come to this point. The fact that we are here says everything I need to know about league leadership.

What is it about Adam's post that you do not understand?

The league solicits bids. The league office takes the bids, and brings them to the ADs to vote. The ADs went with Atlantic City because it promised a large guarantee that no other place would do. And there's too many coaches that don't want to be in Lake Placid because of the large ice surface. And no one wanted to be back Albany except maybe Union and RPI. So options were limited.

The member schools are not being dragged around by their noses. I guess that's hard to understand, but it's true. They picked AC, unfortunately, and now we have to live with it. As I've said many times, it seems like a lousy decision, but it was made by "our" schools. Hopefully they can change it, but complaining about the people who administer decisions made by the schools is rather ridiculous, in my opinion. If you want to complain to someone who can change things, complain to your school, and offer to try and help. Sure there's nothing you or I can do, but offering may get you further in discussion. It's sure better than posting complaints here.

It's not that I don't understand that. All I'm saying is that the league could have gotten creative and come back with better bids. If AC is the most appealing bid they can get to bring back to the schools, then the league office has failed. Besides, if I were a betting man, my money would be on Cornell as one of the three that voted against AC. Furthermore, my use of here was probably not specific enough, as it referred to not only the location of the tournament, but the lack of the TV contract, the horrid officiating, and the all around state of the league generally not doing anything to improve its situation.

*Example of the kind of creative thinking that would have been appreciated. Perhaps the league could have tried the NHL network. They show Canadian Junior Hockey in America on a regular basis, and almost all of their nightly coverage is just NHL tonight hours and hours on end. Did anyone ever consider that perhaps they might televise the ECAC tournament?

In fact, as has been mentioned before, NHL did carry games. As I remember it was just a pick up from another feed, not that they wanted to produce it. Anyway, no one has come up with a suggeston that hasn't been tried. That seems to suggest that there weren't many options for TV. I'm sure nonbelievers will never be convinced by facts, that's the nature of belief, but until someone gives an argument based upon some facts, I'm willing to say, we've got to live with what we've got. And, we have to try and make it better.

[css228]

*Example of the kind of creative thinking that would have been appreciated. Perhaps the league could have tried the NHL network. They show Canadian Junior Hockey in America on a regular basis, and almost all of their nightly coverage is just NHL tonight hours and hours on end. Did anyone ever consider that perhaps they might televise the ECAC tournament?

In fact, as has been mentioned before, NHL did carry games. As I remember it was just a pick up from another feed, not that they wanted to produce it. Anyway, no one has come up with a suggeston that hasn't been tried. That seems to suggest that there weren't many options for TV. I'm sure nonbelievers will never be convinced by facts, that's the nature of belief, but until someone gives an argument based upon some facts, I'm willing to say, we've got to live with what we've got. And, we have to try and make it better.

As I remember they televised the RPI game last year at RPI. Meaning its likely they took the RPI TV feed. Which is why I'm wondering why that can't be done again?

[Chris '03]

*Example of the kind of creative thinking that would have been appreciated. Perhaps the league could have tried the NHL network. They show Canadian Junior Hockey in America on a regular basis, and almost all of their nightly coverage is just NHL tonight hours and hours on end. Did anyone ever consider that perhaps they might televise the ECAC tournament?

In fact, as has been mentioned before, NHL did carry games. As I remember it was just a pick up from another feed, not that they wanted to produce it. Anyway, no one has come up with a suggeston that hasn't been tried. That seems to suggest that there weren't many options for TV. I'm sure nonbelievers will never be convinced by facts, that's the nature of belief, but until someone gives an argument based upon some facts, I'm willing to say, we've got to live with what we've got. And, we have to try and make it better.

As I remember they televised the RPI game last year at RPI. Meaning its likely they took the RPI TV feed. Which is why I'm wondering why that can't be done again?

My guess is that the sponsorship dollar for five hours of NHL tonight rank higher than whatever ads you could sell for ECAC hockey and the league wasn't interested in paying the difference. I fondly remember the days of "This week in ECAC hockey. Brought to you by ECAC hockey."

[css228]

*Example of the kind of creative thinking that would have been appreciated. Perhaps the league could have tried the NHL network. They show Canadian Junior Hockey in America on a regular basis, and almost all of their nightly coverage is just NHL tonight hours and hours on end. Did anyone ever consider that perhaps they might televise the ECAC tournament?

In fact, as has been mentioned before, NHL did carry games. As I remember it was just a pick up from another feed, not that they wanted to produce it. Anyway, no one has come up with a suggeston that hasn't been tried. That seems to suggest that there weren't many options for TV. I'm sure nonbelievers will never be convinced by facts, that's the nature of belief, but until someone gives an argument based upon some facts, I'm willing to say, we've got to live with what we've got. And, we have to try and make it better.

As I remember they televised the RPI game last year at RPI. Meaning its likely they took the RPI TV feed. Which is why I'm wondering why that can't be done again?

My guess is that the sponsorship dollar for five hours of NHL tonight rank higher than whatever ads you could sell for ECAC hockey and the league wasn't interested in paying the difference. I fondly remember the days of "This week in ECAC hockey. Brought to you by ECAC hockey."

But even on tape delay. You can't tell me that the American sponsorship rights for the QMJHL are higher than the sponsorship rights ECAC Hockey.

[marty]

*Example of the kind of creative thinking that would have been appreciated. Perhaps the league could have tried the NHL network. They show Canadian Junior Hockey in America on a regular basis, and almost all of their nightly coverage is just NHL tonight hours and hours on end. Did anyone ever consider that perhaps they might televise the ECAC tournament?

In fact, as has been mentioned before, NHL did carry games. As I remember it was just a pick up from another feed, not that they wanted to produce it. Anyway, no one has come up with a suggeston that hasn't been tried. That seems to suggest that there weren't many options for TV. I'm sure nonbelievers will never be convinced by facts, that's the nature of belief, but until someone gives an argument based upon some facts, I'm willing to say, we've got to live with what we've got. And, we have to try and make it better.

As I remember they televised the RPI game last year at RPI. Meaning its likely they took the RPI TV feed. Which is why I'm wondering why that can't be done again?

The one and only use of RPI-TV for a Time Warner live broadcast was this year's Freakout.  However, I am now wondering if we can't talk TW into a delayed broadcast of this year's event. Although at this point, it may be contractually impossible.

[flyersgolf]

There are a lot of good ideas and people who care giving feedback.  As we have already seen, college hockey as we know it; is going to have great changes occur come the 2013-14 season.  As of right now the ECAC is falling further behind the new conferences and realignments coming.  Had the ECAC had a professional fulltime PR person with the credentials and connections in charge of the ECAC hockey championship this situation would not have occurred regardless of where the tournament was being held.  It takes at least a year or more to plan these things out and be successful.  As many of you have pointed out money seems to be the issue and to hire such a qualified person requires money.  To line up sponsors and TV takes time and a lot of hand squeezing.  I get the feeling that this TV issue was not addressed early enough, I could be wrong.  But Comcast and Fios are right in the neighborhood of Atlantic City.

Cornell needs to have the guts to let the ECAC know they are willing to walk if things do not improve.  Play in Hockey East; you think Hockey East would not want Cornell?-fantasy-.   Kids today want to be seen and I believe an issue like this will be used as a recruiting detriment for all ECAC hockey schools.   Schafer does an incredible job getting kids to come to Cornell instead of higher profile programs or major junior A.  I think you could tell from his quote: "One of the reasons we went [to Atlantic City] was that is gave us a great guarantee to be on T.V. It's really disappointing for our fans and alumni base that depends on those T.V. games. It's a big failure of our league not to have those games on T.V. [The league] needs to look at why this happened and make sure it doesn't happen again."; Schafer feels someone did not do their due diligence, I agree.  Cornell Ice Hockey is far and above the best supported and followed program in the Ivies and ECAC.  I would like to see if we can swim with the other big boys.