UHN Pregame Thread (RIT and Denver too)

[Robb]

I've been saying this since I began following Cornell hockey in 2001:  Schafer's system works in the ECAC, but it doesn't work in the national tournament when you're facing talented offensive teams.  There's just too little margin for error in these games.  

They will never make it back to the Frozen 4 playing this style of, in my opinion, garbage system hockey...the NHL did away with system hockey through rules changes and college should do the same.  The popularity of the sport is waning because of system hockey like Cornell.

Other fans may disagree with me, but we've been watching it for 15 years and nothing has changed.

I do disagree with you.  Cornell's only been upset once so far in the regional - last year to BSU.  UNH is about to become upset #2, but that's not so horrible.

[YankeeLobo]

WoW.  UNH...thorn in Cornell's side.

[YankeeLobo]

The announcers are still talking about this game like it's still in question.  Clearly they've never watched Cornell play.  3 goals in 12 minutes is Schafer's wet dream.

[YankeeLobo]

goodnight...hope i wake up and UNH didn't just beat us for the 3rd straight time in the tournament.

[Jordan 04]

Seriously. How can one person be so bad at posting.

[YankeeLobo]

Seriously. How can one person be so bad at posting.

How can one team be so bad at playing hockey?  5-1!!

[YankeeLobo]

Seriously. How can one person be so bad at posting.

Hey Jordan, if you're such a hockey expert, read what I wrote here and tell me this isn't true.  Results speak for themselves.  8 TOURNAMENTS, 1 FROZEN FOUR, NO CHAMPIONSHIPS.  That garbage system won't cut it in the NCAAs and I wish, for the sake of hockey fans, they would change the rules so Cornell can't get away with it and the fans actually have some exciting college hockey to watch.  Otherwise it won't be long before college hockey can't even make the cut on ESPN-U.



"I've been saying this since I began following Cornell hockey in 2001: Schafer's system works in the ECAC, but it doesn't work in the national tournament when you're facing talented offensive teams. There's just too little margin for error in these games.

They will never make it back to the Frozen 4 playing this style of, in my opinion, garbage system hockey...the NHL did away with system hockey through rules changes and college should do the same. The popularity of the sport is waning because of system hockey like Cornell.

Other fans may disagree with me, but we've been watching it for 15 years and nothing has changed. What has the program produced? Drafted goalies that have been busts in the NHL (LeNeveu, McKee, Underhill), one Frozen Four in 8 tries, 3 losses to UNH?"

[MrChiCityFan]

YankeeLobo is a troll most of the time, but I agree with him here.

[YankeeLobo]

It's not like I just discovered this - I've been watching this Schafer system for a long time.  It doesn't work!  If you measure success by NCAA appearances then Cornell has been a success but this isn't Cornell basketball, it's Cornell hockey.  There's actual tradition, fan following, great venue, close to Canada.  They should be expected to compete for national championships.  Schafer has a team that is just good enough to game the system and win enough games every year that Schafer's job isn't in jeopardy.

[Towerroad]

I am afraid that Yankeelobo is right and mirrors my and others comments about the Schafer system. We saw its weakness tonight.

Thank you to the Seniors for a solid season and kicking Sucks butt! Good luck.

[gored]

Steve Alford has been a Division 1 basketball head coach for more than 10 years at schools that offer scholarships, and yet has only advanced past the NCAA 2nd round once.  That even includes this year when his top 10 ranked New Mexico Lobos team was trounced by a school that barely even made it into the tournament.  He is a decorated man with Bobby Knight as a mentor, who should be able to produce consistent success.  Oh well, I guess results speak for themselves.

[YankeeLobo]

Steve Alford has been a Division 1 basketball head coach for more than 10 years at schools that offer scholarships, and yet has only advanced past the NCAA 2nd round once.  That even includes this year when his top 10 ranked New Mexico Lobos team was trounced by a school that barely even made it into the tournament.  He is a decorated man with Bobby Knight as a mentor, who should be able to produce consistent success.  Oh well, I guess results speak for themselves.

Dude do you know how many times I've said I'm not a fan of Alford?  Multiple times on this board.  I don't like his guard oriented system and I think he gets outcoached a lot.  BUT, he's an amazing recruiter and his teams overachieve, so he's doing something right (attracting talent to the school).  He resurrected a dead program in less than 3 years and THE PIT is now a tough ticket as a result...Results do speak for themselves.

I forgot to mention that the Lobos lose one senior. practically the whole team, including Darington Hobson (hopefully), coming back.  Regardless of Alford the team will be top 15 preseason next year because of his recruiting prowess.

But why are we talking about an up and coming college basketball program here?  We should be talking about the stagnating Cornell hockey program.

[Tom Lento]

Seriously. How can one person be so bad at posting.

Hey Jordan, if you're such a hockey expert, read what I wrote here and tell me this isn't true.  Results speak for themselves.  8 TOURNAMENTS, 1 FROZEN FOUR, NO CHAMPIONSHIPS.  That garbage system won't cut it in the NCAAs and I wish, for the sake of hockey fans, they would change the rules so Cornell can't get away with it and the fans actually have some exciting college hockey to watch.  Otherwise it won't be long before college hockey can't even make the cut on ESPN-U.



"I've been saying this since I began following Cornell hockey in 2001: Schafer's system works in the ECAC, but it doesn't work in the national tournament when you're facing talented offensive teams. There's just too little margin for error in these games.

They will never make it back to the Frozen 4 playing this style of, in my opinion, garbage system hockey...the NHL did away with system hockey through rules changes and college should do the same. The popularity of the sport is waning because of system hockey like Cornell.

Other fans may disagree with me, but we've been watching it for 15 years and nothing has changed. What has the program produced? Drafted goalies that have been busts in the NHL (LeNeveu, McKee, Underhill), one Frozen Four in 8 tries, 3 losses to UNH?"

Let's put this in the context of the type of program Cornell has, shall we?

Since Schafer took over at Cornell in 1995:

Cornell NCAA tournament advances: 7
Cornell Frozen Four appearances: 1

Rest of ECAC NCAA tournament advances: 5*
Rest of ECAC Frozen Four appearances: 2*

* approximate, but I'm pretty sure about the FF (SLU and UVM)

Schafer's teams have 7 NCAA tournament advances in 8 appearances (including this year). That's 7-8. The rest of the ECAC in that time is something like 5-20 in the NCAA tournament (not including this year, since Yale hasn't played yet, but I'll be shocked if Yale gets out of the first round).

In the 20 years prior to Schafer's arrival, Cornell appeared in the NCAA tournament 6 times, and advanced twice. The fact that you're complaining about a lack of national titles is a true testament to his success as a hockey coach.

If you want to demand championships and Frozen Four appearances go watch Michigan or Minnesota in this year's tournament. Oh, wait. Well, you should go watch them starting next year - in general they'll have a much better shot at the Frozen Four than Cornell, and for the time being that has nothing to do with coaching. I think you'd be absolutely crazy to cut Schafer loose because of his "system" and try to bring in someone else, especially since that someone else will almost certainly be far less successful both in the league and on the national stage.

I think fans can make reasonable complaints about the way Schafer coaches - his teams have not moved the puck very well the past couple of years, and the breakout and power play have suffered as a result. The power play strategy has historically been pretty rigid and doesn't seem to vary with the talent on the team. On the other hand, the penalty kill and even-strength defensive play of the team is consistently excellent - I can only think of maybe 3 or 4 seasons in Schafer's 15 years where Cornell didn't play elite level defense. But I don't think fans can reasonably complain about the results or the overall quality of the team. Cornell has been very good by any measure for 10 of the last 15 years, and has had one or *maybe* two teams with a legitimate shot at a national title. If that's not good enough, I suggest you start watching BU. Next year, of course.

[YankeeLobo]

Seriously. How can one person be so bad at posting.

Hey Jordan, if you're such a hockey expert, read what I wrote here and tell me this isn't true.  Results speak for themselves.  8 TOURNAMENTS, 1 FROZEN FOUR, NO CHAMPIONSHIPS.  That garbage system won't cut it in the NCAAs and I wish, for the sake of hockey fans, they would change the rules so Cornell can't get away with it and the fans actually have some exciting college hockey to watch.  Otherwise it won't be long before college hockey can't even make the cut on ESPN-U.



"I've been saying this since I began following Cornell hockey in 2001: Schafer's system works in the ECAC, but it doesn't work in the national tournament when you're facing talented offensive teams. There's just too little margin for error in these games.

They will never make it back to the Frozen 4 playing this style of, in my opinion, garbage system hockey...the NHL did away with system hockey through rules changes and college should do the same. The popularity of the sport is waning because of system hockey like Cornell.

Other fans may disagree with me, but we've been watching it for 15 years and nothing has changed. What has the program produced? Drafted goalies that have been busts in the NHL (LeNeveu, McKee, Underhill), one Frozen Four in 8 tries, 3 losses to UNH?"

Let's put this in the context of the type of program Cornell has, shall we?

Since Schafer took over at Cornell in 1995:

Cornell NCAA tournament advances: 7
Cornell Frozen Four appearances: 1

Rest of ECAC NCAA tournament advances: 5*
Rest of ECAC Frozen Four appearances: 2*

* approximate, but I'm pretty sure about the FF (SLU and UVM)

Schafer's teams have 7 NCAA tournament advances in 8 appearances (including this year). That's 7-8. The rest of the ECAC in that time is something like 5-20 in the NCAA tournament (not including this year, since Yale hasn't played yet, but I'll be shocked if Yale gets out of the first round).

In the 20 years prior to Schafer's arrival, Cornell appeared in the NCAA tournament 6 times, and advanced twice. The fact that you're complaining about a lack of national titles is a true testament to his success as a hockey coach.

If you want to demand championships and Frozen Four appearances go watch Michigan or Minnesota in this year's tournament. Oh, wait. Well, you should go watch them starting next year - in general they'll have a much better shot at the Frozen Four than Cornell, and for the time being that has nothing to do with coaching. I think you'd be absolutely crazy to cut Schafer loose because of his "system" and try to bring in someone else, especially since that someone else will almost certainly be far less successful both in the league and on the national stage.

I think fans can make reasonable complaints about the way Schafer coaches - his teams have not moved the puck very well the past couple of years, and the breakout and power play have suffered as a result. The power play strategy has historically been pretty rigid and doesn't seem to vary with the talent on the team. On the other hand, the penalty kill and even-strength defensive play of the team is consistently excellent - I can only think of maybe 1 or 2 seasons in Schafer's 15 years where Cornell didn't play elite level defense. But I don't think fans can reasonably complain about the results or the overall quality of the team. Cornell has been very good by any measure for 10 of the last 15 years, and has had one or *maybe* two teams with a legitimate shot at a national title. If that's not good enough, I suggest you start watching BU. Next year, of course.

Point taken, good response.

[Tom Lento]

Seriously. How can one person be so bad at posting.

Hey Jordan, if you're such a hockey expert, read what I wrote here and tell me this isn't true.  Results speak for themselves.  8 TOURNAMENTS, 1 FROZEN FOUR, NO CHAMPIONSHIPS.  That garbage system won't cut it in the NCAAs and I wish, for the sake of hockey fans, they would change the rules so Cornell can't get away with it and the fans actually have some exciting college hockey to watch.  Otherwise it won't be long before college hockey can't even make the cut on ESPN-U.



"I've been saying this since I began following Cornell hockey in 2001: Schafer's system works in the ECAC, but it doesn't work in the national tournament when you're facing talented offensive teams. There's just too little margin for error in these games.

They will never make it back to the Frozen 4 playing this style of, in my opinion, garbage system hockey...the NHL did away with system hockey through rules changes and college should do the same. The popularity of the sport is waning because of system hockey like Cornell.

Other fans may disagree with me, but we've been watching it for 15 years and nothing has changed. What has the program produced? Drafted goalies that have been busts in the NHL (LeNeveu, McKee, Underhill), one Frozen Four in 8 tries, 3 losses to UNH?"

Let's put this in the context of the type of program Cornell has, shall we?

Since Schafer took over at Cornell in 1995:

Cornell NCAA tournament advances: 7
Cornell Frozen Four appearances: 1

Rest of ECAC NCAA tournament advances: 5*
Rest of ECAC Frozen Four appearances: 2*

* approximate, but I'm pretty sure about the FF (SLU and UVM)

Schafer's teams have 7 NCAA tournament advances in 8 appearances (including this year). That's 7-8. The rest of the ECAC in that time is something like 5-20 in the NCAA tournament (not including this year, since Yale hasn't played yet, but I'll be shocked if Yale gets out of the first round).

In the 20 years prior to Schafer's arrival, Cornell appeared in the NCAA tournament 6 times, and advanced twice. The fact that you're complaining about a lack of national titles is a true testament to his success as a hockey coach.

If you want to demand championships and Frozen Four appearances go watch Michigan or Minnesota in this year's tournament. Oh, wait. Well, you should go watch them starting next year - in general they'll have a much better shot at the Frozen Four than Cornell, and for the time being that has nothing to do with coaching. I think you'd be absolutely crazy to cut Schafer loose because of his "system" and try to bring in someone else, especially since that someone else will almost certainly be far less successful both in the league and on the national stage.

I think fans can make reasonable complaints about the way Schafer coaches - his teams have not moved the puck very well the past couple of years, and the breakout and power play have suffered as a result. The power play strategy has historically been pretty rigid and doesn't seem to vary with the talent on the team. On the other hand, the penalty kill and even-strength defensive play of the team is consistently excellent - I can only think of maybe 1 or 2 seasons in Schafer's 15 years where Cornell didn't play elite level defense. But I don't think fans can reasonably complain about the results or the overall quality of the team. Cornell has been very good by any measure for 10 of the last 15 years, and has had one or *maybe* two teams with a legitimate shot at a national title. If that's not good enough, I suggest you start watching BU. Next year, of course.

Point taken, good response.

Wow, that was quick. I edited b/c there were actually 3 or 4 seasons with mediocre defense.