[OT] Sarah Hughes and Harvard?

[marty]

And her younger sister is supposed to be just as intense and dedicated as Sarah!!

[Robb03]

Chris '02 writes:

"Who was the Hughes that was on the hockey team here?"


Kelly Hughes, he is Canadian.  But I have not decided if that's better or worse than Great Neck, LI.

[Al DeFlorio]

Yale's president has been leading a charge to get rid of early decisions.  A lengthy article in The Atlantic made the case that early decisions really helped the chances of kids from good high and prep schools where the counselors pushed their students into applying for early decisions, where admissions criteria is usually not quite as stiff as it becomes in the winter-spring cycle.

Plus, as Marty points out, a lot of kids just aren't ready to make a rational choice at the time early decision applications are due.  One big benefit of early decisions for the colleges is that the "yield" is so high, making their nums look better for the silly national rankings that sell newsmagazines.  This dog may die a slow death.

[Al DeFlorio]

Kelly Hughes is still on the roster, but Sarah's brother is David, and he is no longer with the team.

[cquinn]

Anyone who has to wait for the financial aid package before making a decision is also at a disadvantage.  Aid decisions aren't handed out until April since they are dependent on tax information not available at early decision time.  I'm guessing most early decision applicants either know they won't get any aid or they already have a company-sponsored type scholarship.

[littleredfan]

Getting rid of early admissions also helps disadvantaged students.  A lot of them don't want to apply early for fear that they'll get a dumpy aid package (mostly work study and loans, and few grants).  Though it meets their financial need, they have to work their butt off even more.  These kids would rather wait till regular decisions so they can compare their aid packages.

Unfortunately those stupid college rankings have a huge impact on what college admissions people decide to do.  For Cornell, its actually advantageous *not* to admit a significant portion of their class early decision, as they are in danger of dipping down too low into the applicant pool and jeopardizing their ranking.  Instead, we wait for the people who get rejected by HYP early and then can't get into anywhere else because that 'early advantage' is now gone.

However, one of the only good things early decisions is good for is bringing kids to the school that REALLY want to be there.  Its been my experience that kids who applied here as a reach through early decisions really enjoy Cornell more than some of those who are still kind of upset about getting rejected by other Ivies.

[marty]

What burned me was that because my cousin is registrar at a selective school we realized that my son was not:

1.  An early decision candidate,
2.  A recruited athlete,
3.  Member of a minority group,
4.  Legacy except at CU which he felt was too big for him,

and I think one more category that thankfully I have forgotten.

I am hoping to forget the whole damn process, but I doubt I'll live long enough to allow this to fade into the recesses of what's left of my mind.
 ::nut::

[marty]

But there are also a group, though I hope a small group, who will apply to an Ivy (meaning any Ivy) as an early decision candidate hoping to get into one Ivy or another at any cost.  Big time facetimers!  Eh?

[Rick \'71]

You may recall that Emily Hughes skated between periods a few years back.  She was 11 or so at the time.  Wore a Charlie Chaplin outfit.  Sarah did the same thing a few years before that.  IMHO Emily's Lynah performance was way better than Sarah's.  She'll be the one to watch in another year or two.

[CUlater \'89]

But there is also a group, and at some high schools it is a large group, of students who know where they want or prefer to go to college and therefore benefit from the early admissions/decision process (but most particularly the early decision process) because they don't have to compete with other students who are applying to the school merely as a safety school, or just for the "facetime" element of getting accepted here, there and everywhere.

[Greg Berge]

This is the classic car sales routine.  Possible customer (high school student) cruises the lot.  Salesman (college) says "so, are you serious or just wasting my time?" (offers early decision).  Customer says sure he's serious or he wouldn't be here, and tries to lowball salesman (asks for as much aid as possible).  Salesman counters by trying to scam customer into taking the most expensive deal (least aid, gussied up with all sorts of fancy language).  When they reach a bargaining point, ultimately in the salesman's favor (he has far more customers than the customer has choices), then the salesman uses the pressure tactic "hey, if you want to take your chances that the deal will be here tomorrow then shop around (wait for other aid packages to clear), but I can't promise anything" (early decision trap closes).

Yes, a very savy customer might get out of this situation with his skin, but for the most part it's a scam for the salesman.  And nothing I have observed in the workings of Cornell or any other university over the years has led me to believe they are any higher on the ethics chain than your average car salesman.

[CUlater \'89]

Two problems with your example.  First, the salesman (college) is compensated (graded by US News and the public) based on the percentage of shoppers who actually buy the car (accept the offer), so he has an incentive to only make offers to those likely to accept.  By playing games with the early decision/admission process, the college is driving more applicants into the general pool, resulting in lower admission rates among accepted students.

Regarding it being a scam, as far as I know, the university doesn't get rewarded for giving out less in financial aid than it has available.  So it doesn't have an incentive to give the applicant pool in general less aid.  And in any case, it does have a limited amount of aid available each year, meaning that giving the best aid packages to those who apply early decision/admission could leave it short when the unknown number of general pool applications come in.

[Al DeFlorio]

The major issue, in my book, is the further disadvantage it causes for already disadvantaged kids.  We need to put fewer obstacles in their path towards advancement, not more.

[nshapiro]

I don't think a economically challenged applicant is at a true disadvantage when applying early decision.  What stops this candidate from applying to Cornell early decsion, and applying to other schools as well? He can accept the Cornell offer, and when other acceptances and financial aid packages arrive, he can wave them at Cornell and request they reconsider his package.

This will help if peer institutions have determined that the family contribution expected by Cornell is higher than at these peer institutions.

If the problem is the mix between grant, loan, and work study, the historical distribution of aid in these three categories is known for every institution.  A Cornell candidate seeking financial aid should be aware of this ratio, and can question Cornell if the ratio in his/her aid package differs from the Cornell norm.

[Al DeFlorio]

The issue, Neil, is that if you're going to school in Harlem or Watts or Dorchester, you're less likely to be made aware of early decision, while, if you're from a Summit, NJ, or Greenwich, CT, school, you certainly will be.  And early decision is when the admissions bar is lowest, and when the slots start getting filled.