ELynah Forum

Quote from: djk26 on Today at 06:36:32 AM

Quote from: BearLoverEven our 2027 ranking (11th) isn't very good, considering the class was recruited in the wake of our national title. So, we need to step it up.

What does "step it up" mean exactly? What could Cornell be doing to recruit better lacrosse players that it is not already doing? I am
not familiar with college athletics recruiting, so I am genuinely curious.

It's less that I have specific ideas about what we should do to improve recruiting and more that our recruiting is the clearest weakness of the program currently. Coaching seems great, culture seems great, player development probably also great. But recruiting is where we have the most room to grow. IL star rankings are imperfect, but highly correlated with team success. We've been 14th, 10th, 20th, and 11th the past four years, which isn't gonna cut it if we have national championship aspirations. BTW, our 2025 national championship team consisted of classes with the following recruiting rankings: 6th, 4th, 20th, 9th, 3rd.

Quote from: Al DeFlorio on Today at 08:36:40 AM

Quote from: BearLover on Today at 12:51:31 AM

Quote from: mike1960 on May 27, 2026, 09:49:14 PM

Quote from: BearLover on May 27, 2026, 09:37:55 PM

Quote from: mike1960 on May 27, 2026, 09:17:35 PM

Quote from: Swampy on May 27, 2026, 03:56:30 PM

Quote from: CU77 on May 25, 2026, 12:30:52 PMAt least 90% of recruiting has to do with factors that the coach has no direct control over: academics, campus culture, weather, facilities, likelihood of a championship,  etc. There's not some magic knob that a coach can turn to improve recruiting.

Perhaps. But while Princeton and ND may have some advantages, I don't see enough difference in the five things you explicitly mention (academics, campus culture, weather, facilities, likelihood of a championship) to account for Princeton repeatedly recruiting the #1 class (several years in a row with 5x5*) while we recruit #20.

This is particularly vexing because until recently we have regularly recruited generational players like Kurst, Teat, Adler, etc.

We are still recruiting potentially generational players.

The fact we still get the occasional 5-star doesn't disprove the broader point. BTW, Adler was not a big-time recruit. Nor was Pannell.

The problem is not recruiting. The problem is how well we play. We're absolutely able to beat the national champions Princeton Tigers. Do you know how I know?

Sorry, but this is cope. Can we beat Princeton? Yes. Were we as good as Princeton this season? No. We fortunately recruit well enough that we aren't completely overmatched against the top teams, and often we do beat them, but we'd beat them more often if we recruited better. Developing players is important, but the ceiling is higher on a 5-star recruit than a 3-star recruit. You'll win more by developing a 5-star. What I'm saying is so simple that it's practically tautological: bringing in better players means you win more. Yes, we can beat the teams that out-recruit us, but this is in spite of the recruiting disparity, and we'd beat those teams more often if we recruited better.

Overall our recruiting has been fine. Clearly not as good as Princeton's or Notre Dame's or UVA's or Duke's or UNC's, but it's been good enough to compete nationally. This will no longer be the case if we bring in the 20th best recruiting class every season (as we will next year). Even our 2027 ranking (11th) isn't very good, considering the class was recruited in the wake of our national title. So, we need to step it up.

I could be wrong, I suppose, but didn't Cornell just win a national championship twelve months ago? 

What will it take to quiesce the insistent, persistent whining we are depressingly subjected to?  I'd rather read the Cyrillic garbage we get than this tiresome Chicken Little act.

You're freaking out because a poster on a sports forum said their team needs to (gasp!) "step up recruiting." The horror!

3 players hit 100 points in the 2009-10 season (Greening, Gallagher, R. Nash). And nobody has since.

Quote from: mike1960 on May 27, 2026, 09:49:14 PM

Quote from: BearLover on May 27, 2026, 09:37:55 PM

Quote from: mike1960 on May 27, 2026, 09:17:35 PM

Quote from: Swampy on May 27, 2026, 03:56:30 PM

Quote from: CU77 on May 25, 2026, 12:30:52 PMAt least 90% of recruiting has to do with factors that the coach has no direct control over: academics, campus culture, weather, facilities, likelihood of a championship,  etc. There's not some magic knob that a coach can turn to improve recruiting.

Perhaps. But while Princeton and ND may have some advantages, I don't see enough difference in the five things you explicitly mention (academics, campus culture, weather, facilities, likelihood of a championship) to account for Princeton repeatedly recruiting the #1 class (several years in a row with 5x5*) while we recruit #20.

This is particularly vexing because until recently we have regularly recruited generational players like Kurst, Teat, Adler, etc.

We are still recruiting potentially generational players.

The fact we still get the occasional 5-star doesn't disprove the broader point. BTW, Adler was not a big-time recruit. Nor was Pannell.

The problem is not recruiting. The problem is how well we play. We're absolutely able to beat the national champions Princeton Tigers. Do you know how I know?

Sorry, but this is cope. Can we beat Princeton? Yes. Were we as good as Princeton this season? No. We fortunately recruit well enough that we aren't completely overmatched against the top teams, and often we do beat them, but we'd beat them more often if we recruited better. Developing players is important, but the ceiling is higher on a 5-star recruit than a 3-star recruit. You'll win more by developing a 5-star. What I'm saying is so simple that it's practically tautological: bringing in better players means you win more. Yes, we can beat the teams that out-recruit us, but this is in spite of the recruiting disparity, and we'd beat those teams more often if we recruited better.

Overall our recruiting has been fine. Clearly not as good as Princeton's or Notre Dame's or UVA's or Duke's or UNC's, but it's been good enough to compete nationally. This will no longer be the case if we bring in the 20th best recruiting class every season (as we will next year). Even our 2027 ranking (11th) isn't very good, considering the class was recruited in the wake of our national title. So, we need to step it up.

Quote from: mike1960 on May 27, 2026, 09:17:35 PM

Quote from: Swampy on May 27, 2026, 03:56:30 PM

Quote from: CU77 on May 25, 2026, 12:30:52 PMAt least 90% of recruiting has to do with factors that the coach has no direct control over: academics, campus culture, weather, facilities, likelihood of a championship,  etc. There's not some magic knob that a coach can turn to improve recruiting.

Perhaps. But while Princeton and ND may have some advantages, I don't see enough difference in the five things you explicitly mention (academics, campus culture, weather, facilities, likelihood of a championship) to account for Princeton repeatedly recruiting the #1 class (several years in a row with 5x5*) while we recruit #20.

This is particularly vexing because until recently we have regularly recruited generational players like Kurst, Teat, Adler, etc.

We are still recruiting potentially generational players.

The fact we still get the occasional 5-star doesn't disprove the broader point. BTW, Adler was not a big-time recruit. Nor was Pannell.

Quote from: stereax on May 26, 2026, 04:29:06 PM

Quote from: BearLover on May 26, 2026, 02:07:04 PM

Quote from: stereax on May 26, 2026, 01:52:10 PM

Quote from: BearLover on May 25, 2026, 06:53:18 PM

Quote from: stereax on May 25, 2026, 06:23:38 PM

Quote from: BearLover on May 25, 2026, 05:58:35 PMIt would be interesting to plot our InsideLacrosse recruiting ranking on a graph for each year of its existence.

give me a link to the recruiting rankings and i'll do it

Thanks! Here ya go: https://www.insidelacrosse.com/recruiting/m/2027/college

You can flip back to past years by clicking on the "2027" tab.

You want regular rank or points rank?

I'm not sure what the difference is, so I guess regular rank.

Click it so it looks better. The bright red is us, obviously.

Thanks. Much appreciated. Sorry to be annoying but it would be easier to read if you took some of the teams off. GTown, Michigan, OSU would be good candidates for removal. Obviously, only if you have time and feel like it.

Quote from: stereax on May 26, 2026, 01:52:10 PM

Quote from: BearLover on May 25, 2026, 06:53:18 PM

Quote from: stereax on May 25, 2026, 06:23:38 PM

Quote from: BearLover on May 25, 2026, 05:58:35 PMIt would be interesting to plot our InsideLacrosse recruiting ranking on a graph for each year of its existence.

give me a link to the recruiting rankings and i'll do it

Thanks! Here ya go: https://www.insidelacrosse.com/recruiting/m/2027/college

You can flip back to past years by clicking on the "2027" tab.

You want regular rank or points rank?

I'm not sure what the difference is, so I guess regular rank.

Quote from: stereax on May 25, 2026, 06:23:38 PM

Quote from: BearLover on May 25, 2026, 05:58:35 PMIt would be interesting to plot our InsideLacrosse recruiting ranking on a graph for each year of its existence.

give me a link to the recruiting rankings and i'll do it

Thanks! Here ya go: https://www.insidelacrosse.com/recruiting/m/2027/college

You can flip back to past years by clicking on the "2027" tab.

It would be interesting to plot our InsideLacrosse recruiting ranking on a graph for each year of its existence.

Quote from: scoop85 on May 25, 2026, 05:46:09 PM

Quote from: BearLover on May 25, 2026, 02:33:02 PM

Quote from: jjanow99 on May 25, 2026, 02:23:58 PM

Quote from: jeff '84 on May 25, 2026, 02:17:51 PMNotre Dame led Princeton 3-0 five minutes into the game. It is now 11-3 Princeton at halftime. WOW they are good.
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Quote from: jeff '84 on May 25, 2026, 02:17:51 PMNotre Dame led Princeton 3-0 five minutes into the game. It is now 11-3 Princeton at halftime. WOW they are good.

Maybe don't feel so bad about that ILT championship game now.

I'm more worried about how we're supposed to stay competitive in recruiting with a program that has far better facilities and far more money. They've been lapping us in recruiting.

Princeton's been lapping everyone in recruiting along with UNC, Notre Dame, and Duke (Virginia had an off year recruiting and now has the coaching controversy). Our 2027 class appears stronger than the 2026 class, and the new fieldhouse will be a plus. So long as Buczek is provided sufficient administrative support I'm confident he and his staff will keep us competitive with the top programs. But the other Ivies are all putting emphasis on lacrosse as a showcase sport, so we can't slack off.

Princeton, Notre Dame, and UNC seem to be recruiting better than anyone. Then the next tier seems to be Duke, UVA, Syracuse, Harvard, Hopkins, Maryland, maybe I'm forgetting someone. I think we are in the tier after that.

I wish this were hockey where being in a better conference helps our recruiting because harder competition better prepares kids for the pros. But with less value placed on going pro in lacrosse, I don't believe the Ivy being strong helps us very much.

I'm surprised our recruiting hasn't picked up more since the national championship. 2027 is better than 2026, but we're still at 11. I would have hoped to be higher.

Obviously, we need to wait for longer term trends.

I still expect us to be good next year, but the defense looks like it is going to be very rough.

Quote from: jjanow99 on May 25, 2026, 02:23:58 PM

Quote from: jeff '84 on May 25, 2026, 02:17:51 PMNotre Dame led Princeton 3-0 five minutes into the game. It is now 11-3 Princeton at halftime. WOW they are good.
[/

Quote from: jeff '84 on May 25, 2026, 02:17:51 PMNotre Dame led Princeton 3-0 five minutes into the game. It is now 11-3 Princeton at halftime. WOW they are good.

Maybe don't feel so bad about that ILT championship game now.

I'm more worried about how we're supposed to stay competitive in recruiting with a program that has far better facilities and far more money. They've been lapping us in recruiting.

Quote from: CU77 on May 25, 2026, 12:30:52 PMAt least 90% of recruiting has to do with factors that the coach has no direct control over: academics, campus culture, weather, facilities, likelihood of a championship,  etc. There's not some magic knob that a coach can turn to improve recruiting.

I agree. Though, a lot of those attributes should work in our favor. Not facilities, but maybe the new indoor facility will help. Also, we have rich alumni who will hopefully fund further improvements. We should definitely not have the 20th best recruiting class in the country.

It is widely known that Cornell got screwed by some horrible officiating in the OT of their game against Hopkins. Still, the team was so bad in that game that it makes one wonder what the hell happened.

Overall, I'd say this year's team met my expectations, but didn't exceed them. I thought Goldstein, Firth, and Cascadden would carry the load offensively, Dooley and Staub would carry the load defensively, and across the other positions enough talent would emerge which had been stuck behind all the fifth years who graduated last season. Well, that sort of happened, in that the returning players mentioned had good years, but there wasn't much to write home about elsewhere on the team. Moreover, the incoming recruiting class is very bad (20th in the country). So it is tough to see where the help is going to come from, particularly on defense now that Staub and Dooley are graduating.

Connor Buczek being a great coach is commonly cited as the reason Cornell will compete for the NCAA tournament and NCAA titles every season. And while I do think he is a great coach, his recruiting classes have not been great lately. Recruiting is one of the biggest aspects of college coaching, and if he can't recruit well then it doesn't matter how good he is at motivating players or Xs and Os. This isn't college hockey where the best players leave after a couple of seasons. When you start with a bunch of 5-star recruits, the developmental ceiling is simply much higher than when you start with a bunch of lower star recruits, and the Princetons and Notre Dames of the world are reaping the rewards.

All that is to say, I'm still overall bullish on Cornell lacrosse, but the program clearly needs to start recruiting better.

With Princeton and Notre Dame in the final, it should be noted how badly these programs have been outrecruiting Cornell in recent years (and especially the incoming 2026 high school class). UNC, Virginia, Duke, Hopkins, Maryland, and Harvard are also clearly outrecruiting Cornell at this point.

Quote from: The Rancor on May 24, 2026, 11:41:50 AMGuy who begged to open up the forum to new sign ups for a year upset that new sign ups are spambots.

Are you unaware that there exist tens of thousands of Internet forums that you can sign up for but are not overrun with spambots?