[Q]
USCHO.com/CSTV Division I Men's Poll
October 16, 2006
Team (First Place Votes) Record Points Last Poll
1 Boston College (31) 1-0-0 781 1
2 Wisconsin ( 3) 2-1-1 700 2
3 North Dakota ( 4) 3-1-0 693 5
4 Maine 3-0-0 650 7
5 Michigan ( 2) 2-0-0 643 6
6 Boston University 0-0-1 594 3
7 Minnesota 2-1-0 548 8
8 Michigan State 1-1-0 522 4
9 Miami 3-1-0 467 9
10 Vermont 2-0-1 376 10
11 Denver 2-2-0 340 11
12 New Hampshire 0-0-0 320 13
13 Harvard 0-0-0 317 12
14 Cornell 0-0-0 264 14
15 Clarkson 3-0-1 252 17
16 Colorado College 3-0-1 250 15
17 St. Cloud State 1-1-0 245 16
18 Dartmouth 0-0-0 128 18
19 Nebraska-Omaha 0-0-2 70 NR
20 Colgate 2-2-0 67 NR
Others Receiving Votes: Ohio State 52, Northern Michigan 40, Minnesota-Duluth 29, Alaska 11, Lake Superior 7, Alaska-Anchorage 4, Bemidji State 4, Notre Dame 4, Union 4, Niagara 3, Western Michigan 3, Massachusetts 2, Providence 2, Rensselaer 2, Sacred Heart 2, Ferris State 1, Holy Cross 1, Michigan Tech 1, St. Lawrence 1
[/Q]
[Q]
USA Today/USA Hockey Magazine Men's College Hockey Poll
October 16, 2006
Team Points (First Place Votes) Last Poll Record
1 Boston College 505 (29) 1 1-0-0
2 University of Wisconsin 450 (4) 2 2-1-1
3 University of North Dakota 431 (1) 4 3-1-0
4 University of Maine 385 7 3-0-0
5 University of Michigan 383 5 2-0-0
6 Boston University 340 6 0-0-1
7 University of Minnesota 295 8 2-1-0
8 Michigan State University 294 3 1-1-0
9 Miami (Ohio) University 243 10 3-1-0
10 University of Vermont 194 9 2-0-1
11 University of Denver 122 12 2-2-0
12 University of New Hampshire119 13 0-0-0
13 Harvard University 115 11 0-0-0
14 Clarkson University 54 NR 3-0-1
15 St Cloud State University 41 NR 1-1-0
Others receiving votes: Cornell University 36, Colorado College 35, Colgate University 13, Dartmouth College 13, University of Nebraska Omaha 9, University of Minnesota-Duluth 2, Ferris State University 1.
[/Q]
We haven't played yet but we keep dropping. ::rolleyes::
I like how Sucks and UHN switched places in USCHO with neither having played a game yet.
[quote ebilmes]I like how Sucks and UHN switched places in USCHO with neither having played a game yet.[/quote]Well, now we know that this poll has an uncertainty of at least +/-3 points! :-D
I'm confused and somewhat rattled. Why is it that Cornell didn't go up in this poll? I mean, we didn't play! We're supposed to go up on the weeks we don't play.
Stupid newbie pollsters.
:-P :-P
Maybe the other teams have not played more than we haven't played. I wish the AD would loosen his standards a bit, it'd be nice to not play at least 4 or 5 OOC games by this time of year.
[quote ftyuv]Maybe the other teams have not played more than we haven't played. I wish the Ivy AD's/Presidents would loosen their standards a bit, it'd be nice to not play at least 4 or 5 OOC games by this time of year.[/quote]
Fixed your post.
[quote KeithK][quote ftyuv]Maybe the other teams have not played more than we haven't played. I wish the Ivy AD's/Presidents would loosen their standards a bit, it'd be nice to not play at least 4 or 5 OOC games by this time of year.[/quote]
Fixed your post.[/quote]
General consensus in that other thread notwithstanding, I disagree with the apostrophe you added. :)
[quote ftyuv][quote KeithK][quote ftyuv]Maybe the other teams have not played more than we haven't played. I wish the Ivy AD's/Presidents would loosen their standards a bit, it'd be nice to not play at least 4 or 5 OOC games by this time of year.[/quote]
Fixed your post.[/quote]
General consensus in that other thread notwithstanding, I disagree with the apostrophe you added. :)[/quote]I knew that was coming!
The women's hockey team begins regular season play this coming weekend...why not the men?
[quote Chris 02]The women's hockey team begins regular season play this coming weekend...why not the men?[/quote]
Their season also ends a week earlier. This is largely so that the championship weekends don't coincide, either conference or national.
INCH.com doesnt even have us on the radar.
[quote The Rancor]INCH.com doesnt even have us on the radar.[/quote]
That's not surprising, since INCH.com is the website of an ISP in New York City.
OK, OK, I'll stop being a wise-ass now.
Seriously, I'm fine with the college hockey punditry not ranking Cornell. It's weird to say, but it feels good not to have tons of preseason expectations heaped on our backs. To me, it was simultaneously exhilarating and nerve-racking to have a lot of buzz early on. I'm sure there will still be a target on us with some teams, given our recent success and sheen of the program this decade but I think some good can come of the lowered expectations:
1. Opponents may underestimate us.
2. Opponents may save their #1 goalie for our travel partner (Colgate hasn't had a good start)
3. Bandwagoners off!
4. Less crow to eat.
5. While nobody likes to see it, a "rebuilding year" can push the younger players into bigger roles now which could pay off greater dividends down the road.
6. It will be much more sweeter when we come out of nowhere to storm through the playoffs leading to the biggest party ever in St. Louis come April. (well, one can still dream...)
Actually, I think the USCHO has been generous in ranking Cornell 14th. I think after November Cornell will lucky to crack the top 20.
[quote Ice Meets Metal]Actually, I think the USCHO has been generous in ranking Cornell 14th. I think after November Cornell will lucky to crack the top 20.[/quote]
I don't think you'll find many people here who honestly believe Cornell should be in the top 15. Or 20.
20? Even with the defensive depletion, you don't think we belong in the top third of college hockey? I think that's a bit extreme. I'd say around 15 is about right, but there are too many question marks right now. And with any injuries to what's left of the defense, they might start dressing traffic cones.
[quote CowbellGuy]20? Even with the defensive depletion, you don't think we belong in the top third of college hockey? I think that's a bit extreme. I'd say around 15 is about right, but there are too many question marks right now. And with any injuries to what's left of the defense, they might start dressing traffic cones.[/quote]I might go with #20 rather than #15, but it's hard to imagine ranking Cornell lower than that right now. Even with our losses and the injuries there's still a lot of talent on this team, which should put us well above a majority of the teams in D1. (Edit: on paper anyway.)
...all of which shows the absurdity of ranking 20 or even 15 teams out of 58 (?).
It's worthless to be arguing before Cornell plays one game, but though I'm nowhere close to being a college hockey expert, I think there are too many question marks to put us in the top 20. If we beat Robert Morris and RIT easily the first weekend of the season, and it seems like the freshmen are playing well and that we have solid goaltending, then we should definitely be getting top 15 votes. However, I think this team has too much left to prove to be there already.
Aside from the fact that we haven't been able to see a game yet, why do we care about this at all? It's not like football where your poll rankings matter for the BCS. If we do well we'll get there in the end. We may not like the formula for picking teams at the end, but at least it doesn't depend upon how high you started in the polls at the beginning of the season. For example, if Michigan were not to play OSU, and they and USC were to all finish undefeated, then a team starting lower (UM) has a harder time finishing in the top two than those who started at the top.
[quote Jim Hyla]Aside from the fact that we haven't been able to see a game yet, why do we care about this at all?[/quote]You answered your own question, Jim. It's just something to talk about.
[quote KeithK][quote Jim Hyla]Aside from the fact that we haven't been able to see a game yet, why do we care about this at all?[/quote]You answered your own question, Jim. It's just something to talk about.[/quote]
There's also an argument to be made for poll rankings playing a role in the recruitment process. Higher rankings lead to better recruits, presumedly. But I think that's a minor consideration. It's mostly about pointless bragging rights.
[quote Will][quote KeithK][quote Jim Hyla]Aside from the fact that we haven't been able to see a game yet, why do we care about this at all?[/quote]You answered your own question, Jim. It's just something to talk about.[/quote]
There's also an argument to be made for poll rankings playing a role in the recruitment process. Higher rankings lead to better recruits, presumedly. But I think that's a minor consideration. It's mostly about pointless bragging rights.[/quote]
I agree with Will. Seeing your school in the top 15 or 20 is great publicity for the school and definitely helps in the recruiting process. I am sure recruits are looking at it (and schools sell it)like "Hey, I am being recruited by one of the top 15 or 20 ranked colleges in the U.S." as opposed to the top 20 of 58.
Coming from a "regional" school of 2800 I will take any national exposure I can get.
Cheers!
Drew
P.S. Any restrictions to me parking an RV in a cornell parking lot overnight, if I come up for the Tech/Red game?
[quote Drew][quote Will][quote KeithK][quote Jim Hyla]Aside from the fact that we haven't been able to see a game yet, why do we care about this at all?[/quote]You answered your own question, Jim. It's just something to talk about.[/quote]
There's also an argument to be made for poll rankings playing a role in the recruitment process. Higher rankings lead to better recruits, presumedly. But I think that's a minor consideration. It's mostly about pointless bragging rights.[/quote]
I agree with Will. Seeing your school in the top 15 or 20 is great publicity for the school and definitely helps in the recruiting process. I am sure recruits are looking at it (and schools sell it)like "Hey, I am being recruited by one of the top 15 or 20 ranked colleges in the U.S." as opposed to the top 20 of 58.
Coming from a "regional" school of 2800 I will take any national exposure I can get.
Cheers!
Drew
P.S. Any restrictions to me parking an RV in a cornell parking lot overnight, if I come up for the Tech/Red game?[/quote]OK, but come on. Do you really think how a team is ranked at the beginning of the season would influence a recruit? Maybe the end of the season, or whether the were in the NCAA's, but now?::rolleyes::
[quote ebilmes] However, I think this team has too much left to prove to be there already.[/quote]
What teams have proven much of anything at this point in the year?
I'd venture a guess that especially in the pre/early season the media/coaches rank teams based on past performance, reputation, and the likelihood of improvement or decline. The team finished in the top 8 in the country the last two seasons--only two other teams in the country can say that (BC and ND). The team played the eventual National Champions to a gut wrenching 3OT loss. Over the past half dozen or so years, the team has proven more on the national level than the other ECAC teams combined. But, yeah we a lot of question marks--even more so than other teams...Will the freshman assimilate quickly? Will a respectable goaltender emerge? Will we make up for losses on the blueline? But until we know the answers and it becomes clear that the team is on the decline, Cornell should still be considered a top team.
[quote Jim Hyla][quote Drew][quote Will][quote KeithK][quote Jim Hyla]Aside from the fact that we haven't been able to see a game yet, why do we care about this at all?[/quote]You answered your own question, Jim. It's just something to talk about.[/quote]
There's also an argument to be made for poll rankings playing a role in the recruitment process. Higher rankings lead to better recruits, presumedly. But I think that's a minor consideration. It's mostly about pointless bragging rights.[/quote]
I agree with Will. Seeing your school in the top 15 or 20 is great publicity for the school and definitely helps in the recruiting process. I am sure recruits are looking at it (and schools sell it)like "Hey, I am being recruited by one of the top 15 or 20 ranked colleges in the U.S." as opposed to the top 20 of 58.
Coming from a "regional" school of 2800 I will take any national exposure I can get.
Cheers!
Drew
P.S. Any restrictions to me parking an RV in a cornell parking lot overnight, if I come up for the Tech/Red game?[/quote]OK, but come on. Do you really think how a team is ranked at the beginning of the season would influence a recruit? Maybe the end of the season, or whether the were in the NCAA's, but now?::rolleyes::[/quote]
Jim, seeing that we have already recruited 3 players for the class of 2008, I think it does matter. Schools recruit all year long, not just at the end of the season.
[quote Drew]
P.S. Any restrictions to me parking an RV in a cornell parking lot overnight, if I come up for the Tech/Red game?[/quote]Cornell parking regulations: http://www.parking.cornell.edu/pdf/Rules_Regs_2005.pdf See section 5.1.8
[quote redhair34][quote ebilmes] However, I think this team has too much left to prove to be there already.[/quote]
What teams have proven much of anything at this point in the year? [/quote]Teams that have most of their players returning have a performance record. We lost so much to graduation and the pros that we have more to prove than most.
[quote ugarte]Teams that have most of their players returning have a performance record. We lost so much to graduation and the pros that we have more to prove than most.[/quote]
This was pretty much what I was trying to get at. Last year, with McKee, Moulson, Sasha, OB, etc. returning, it was easier to justify a higher preseason ranking because it was already clear what a lot of the players were capable of accomplishing.
[quote ugarte]Teams that have most of their players returning have a performance record. We lost so much to graduation and the pros that we have more to prove than most.[/quote]
That's a fair point. I just think that the performance record of our coach, our system(s), and the players we return is strong enought to justify our ranking.
[quote Jim Hyla]OK, but come on. Do you really think how a team is ranked at the beginning of the season would influence a recruit? Maybe the end of the season, or whether the were in the NCAA's, but now?::rolleyes::[/quote]I agree that the ranking of schools for a week or two in October is only marginally important. It's possible that some 16 year old potential recruit gets his first impression of Cornell in October for some reason and thus is influenced by the ranking this month. But that's marginal.
However, the polls tend not to be objective based on this moment in time - they tend to have a lot of memory. If we start in the top 15 it's a lot more likely that we'll be in the top 15 at the end of November. A decent start (say 4-1-1) would tend to keep us there because it meets pollsters' expectations. If we start out of the rankings then the same record probably wouldn't be enough to get us back into the rankings. So I think preseason ranking does matter a little bit, at least insofar as we value poll ranking for publicity anyway.