Cornell has announced the procedure for sales of season tickets to students.
http://cornellbigred.ocsn.com/genrel/090302aaa.html
Well this sucks. Someone tell me why they always do this on a tournament weekend? Ah, for it to be last fall when I was too gimpy. . . no, wait, I take that back. (Relatively) non-gimpy is good. Think I can get top of section G if I go in on Monday morning?
wait. so what is differeent aside from getting tix on sunday instead of monday? any rules about when you can start the line, whether it'll be policed to prevent the problems present the last few years, etc? it appears that the students who had input in ticket line changes did squat with it.
Well, they seem to have negotiated the opportunity to go home and get some beauty sleep Saturday night...
Well, I think some improvements have been implemented.
1) Prepayment only. I think a big problem last year was the confusion over when you have to pay. People who fought to prepay were then involved in another fight with the people who didn't prepay. This year, you must prepay on that Saturday night. And it sounds like you can pay at your leisure after you get your line number on Saturday. That gives 1000+ people about 10 hours to pay. Certainly doable. No payment line to make a rush for. Line checks are announced 5-10 minutes in advance, so you can get back to your place in line.
2) An announced timeframe for random line checks. University officials will check the line from 1 pm to 11 pm on that Saturday. If your line # isn't there during a check, it's invalid. Prior to 1 pm Saturday when line numbers are given out, there doesn't seem to be any university responsibility. It's up to whatever line forms before 1 pm on Sept. 21 to police themselves. (I'm sure if there's a threat of roudiness, the CUPD will be present). It sounds like they won't disperse the line for getting line numbers. Yes...a return of the traditional spontaneous style "hockey line".
3) Splitting up distinct times for ranges of numbers during seat selection on Sunday. 200 line numbers per hour. That'll prevent everyone from cramming in at the same time. And to select a seat you must have your line number form and a receipt.
4) Actually announcing the specific procedure in advance. Last year, the only thing we got out of the Athletic Dept. was "tickets go on sale on Friday at 5 pm." Only to find some convoluted surprise system with line-numbers, vague seat selection methods, and payment confusion. Which of course led to several mini-riots. Letting people know what the deal is in advance is a simple thing, but can make a big difference.
I like the improvements, and it sounds like Athletics will be ready for once. Let's hope the students can actually self-police the line-number line. Yes, the university screwed up last year, but part of the problem was also a-holes who jumped into lines. Sounds like some sort of student-run Hockey Line is back, and it's up to the students to show they can handle the responsibility.
[Q]4) Actually announcing the specific procedure in advance.[/Q]
Yes, I agree that this was the major problem last year. No one had any idea how the system was going to be run or what it would entail. Had I known you could get your line number and leave, I woulda shown up early Friday morning. Instead I figured you had to stay all day, so I only showed up once that was possible, leading to a number in the mid 500s. It's only fair if everyone knows the rules to play by.
[Q]Let's hope the students can actually self-police the line-number line[/Q] Assuming I get a group of people to wait overnight with, I plan on taking this on if someone else hasn't. I'm believe the faithful will be more than willing to make sure it's more orderly this year.
-Fred
I do not understand why, if they are requiring you to do line checks until time X, they don't do seat choice right then. Am I missing something obvious?
The way I would do it:
1. Announce "seats will go on sale on Sunday morning at 10 a.m."
2. Announce that line numbers will be assigned in order of showing up starting on Saturday afternoon at 6 p.m. After that, line checks with IDs will occur every hour on the hour. You are permitted to go pee or whatever any other time. If you miss once you're gone. If you're impersonating or being impersonated, you're gone (sorry, frat boys). Each line number gets one seat, period.
3. Put a couple rent-a cops out there to keep people from getting out of line (so to speak) before the 6 p.m. cutoff. No alcohol or drugs, but otherwise let the kids do their thing.
Why won't something that simple work?
Ah how I wish for a return to the days when seniority ruled, I feel bad for all the poor bastards having to deal with all this stuff, no way to treat the best college hockey fans in the country as far as I'm concerned. BTW, I was at a Red Sox game in the bleachers in early may and I heard the famous "RED" somewhere in the section 37-39 area, it warmed my heart.
Rich Hovorka '96 wrote:
Quote4) Actually announcing the specific procedure in advance.
I have to agree with Fred, that's the most important thing right there. Call the actual process a bad one if you like, I'd personally rather have a bad system where everybody knows what it is, than a good one that you have to guess at.
Why don't they just randomly drop the tickets across the campus. Maybe start at the Straight and work their way up to the vet school or something. The best tickets would be the greatest distance from the starting line. A sort of 'Far and Away,' manifest destiny thing, if you will. Everyone could line up on the Plaza at 10am on a Saturday morning and make a dash for it.
Probably many injuries, fights, and other problems....but quite amusing to watch.
Greg-
If they announced tickets would go on sale Sunday morning, people would start lining up Friday (or even Thursday) night since it's the weekend. Do *you* want to pay for two grave yard shifts of rent-a-cops? Or leave students to their own devices for 36 hours or more (sad to say, but people would cheat).
As for the difference between every hour line checks for *everybody* versus randomly and the ability to hold a spot for a friend, the current way allows you to go home, take a shower, get dinner, and then let your friend to do the same. It's just a tad more flexible while still being reasonably strict. What if someone got very sick (like throwing up and feverish) part way through. Your way would force them to stay in line, which isn't good for anyone involved, while the current way allows their friends to give them a break.
[Q]Each line number gets one seat, period.[/Q]
Personally, I'd object to this most. I love getting two tickets so I can bring friends along and expose them to Cornell hockey. I've made new season ticket holders out of some of them. Besides, how would Age get tickets in B then??? We can't let that tradition stop ::worry::.
Oh and Thom,
[Q]Ah how I wish for a return to the days when seniority ruled[/Q]
Schafer'll never let that happen again. And if this is the kind of teams he gives us, well, I'll let him have his say in that area. I have noticed though that the new procedure hasn't helped the 'half empty at faceout' problem. Just because you're a big hockey fan doesn't mean you're prompt :-).
Overall, I don't really have any issues with the current way. It's a big of a pain, but that's really the idea. So the most committed fans get the tickets. We can all put up with it once a year for the joy of Cornell hockey.
-Fred
A few crazy people will line up two nights in advance. I don't have a problem with that, and I don't have a problem with them self-policing (when the stakes are line #8 vs. line #16, people -- or even kids -- are a lot more considerate). It used to happen all the time back 25 thousand years ago when I slept overnight on the uncovered dirt of the indoor baseball diamond and I hope to hell they never do that again -- can you imagine the stench of 750 adolescents rolling in mud-encrusted sweat? Yuck.
Anyway, it was good enough for me, and good enough for you, damnit -- now where did I put my cane and my victrola...?
They have always had a 2 tix per person policy, but I don't see why. You wanna the ticket, you wait for the ticket. Remember that if they *didn't* have a 2 tix policy, people who came later would not be at nearly as great a disadvantage, so it would depressurize the whole thing thus leading to happier parents, happier administrators, happier students. And anyway, how hard is it, if you want two tickets, to bribe your roomate with a case of beer to wait overnight and play hackysack and sneak reefer when nobody's looking? You are Cornellians -- use your initiative.
Quote from: tml5 on September 04, 2002, 02:40:54 AMWell this sucks. Someone tell me why they always do this on a tournament weekend? Ah, for it to be last fall when I was too gimpy. . . no, wait, I take that back. (Relatively) non-gimpy is good. Think I can get top of section G if I go in on Monday morning?
There was a time not that long ago when students were hopeful they could get season tickets at the top of section G...
Quote from: BearLover on December 07, 2025, 11:46:21 PMQuote from: tml5 on September 04, 2002, 02:40:54 AMWell this sucks. Someone tell me why they always do this on a tournament weekend? Ah, for it to be last fall when I was too gimpy. . . no, wait, I take that back. (Relatively) non-gimpy is good. Think I can get top of section G if I go in on Monday morning?
There was a time not that long ago when students were hopeful they could get season tickets at the top of section G...
Holy mother of resurrecting old threads, dude.
It's all been shite since they ended the week-long camp out.
Real fandom ended in the 80s.
8)
I have great memories (mid eighties) of spending a few Friday nights sleeping in Lynah, waiting for the early Saturday morning sale of the tickets. Unlike Trotsky, I never slept out more than a single night per sale.
I attended the MSG game last week with an old college friend who I slept out with one year, and we talked about something funny that happened that night that we both vividly remembered.
And from the "not funny then, but funny after the fact file" - "El-Mowww." (Who else here was there that year?
In retrospect it's a wonder that we were game to do a one night camp-out for tickets in the mid-late 2000s. But back then, Lynah Faithful was like being in an anarchic student org... an outlet for teenage angst and collective spirit that felt intrinsically good and enlivening. But of course we were drinking from a well that was already depleted.
Eh, I missed the boat by a few years on the overnight campouts, but I don't really buy that it should be so difficult to fill a 4,000-person rink (maybe 1,500 of which are student seats?). College football and hoops sell out giant arenas to the same kids who are evidently obsessed with their cell phones and staying in. I think it's doable for Cornell hockey to sell 1/25 as many tickets as Clemson football, given both schools have the same number of students.
Quote from: BearLover on December 08, 2025, 03:36:08 PMEh, I missed the boat by a few years on the overnight campouts, but I don't really buy that it should be so difficult to fill a 4,000-person rink (maybe 1,500 of which are student seats?). College football and hoops sell out giant arenas to the same kids who are evidently obsessed with their cell phones and staying in. I think it's doable for Cornell hockey to sell 1/25 as many tickets as Clemson football, given both schools have the same number of students.
Not to mention the fact that tickets are incredibly inexpensive when compared to athletic event tickets elsewhere.
biggest difference is clemson is mostly a regional school with people who have been football and maybe clemson fans their whole lives. i wish students cared more about hockey but group activity in a physical place is dying everywhere.
Quote from: imafrshmn on December 08, 2025, 03:18:41 PMBut of course we were drinking from a well that was already depleted.
The well is infinite. But to quote Tom Lehrer, what you get out of it depends on what you put into it.
Quote from: ugarte on December 08, 2025, 04:09:25 PMgroup activity in a physical place is dying everywhere.
It's a phase that will pass. The anesthesia of this moment is just a particularly nasty cul de sac of History. But culture is human activity, and culture is miles deep while the petty idiocy of commerce is just paint on it.
Humanity will survive late stage capitalism. People will dance and sing and fuck again. Our species is resilient.
Marx was wrong. Economics is just mankind stopping to catch his breath and pick his nose. The real business of humans is joy. Well, and murder. We're also really into murder.
I mean, I can put the game on and watch it at home.
That's also a factor.
Quote from: stereax on December 08, 2025, 04:53:10 PMI mean, I can put the game on and watch it at home.
That's also a factor.
It's a factor, but I suspect more for the townies. You're one of the few student super-fans (which I say as a compliment). I bet for most students ESPN+ viewership is nil.
Quote from: BearLover on December 08, 2025, 05:19:11 PMQuote from: stereax on December 08, 2025, 04:53:10 PMI mean, I can put the game on and watch it at home.
That's also a factor.
It's a factor, but I suspect more for the townies. You're one of the few student super-fans (which I say as a compliment). I bet for most students ESPN+ viewership is nil.
Au contraire, actually. I know several fans who will just pirate the game if they're not up to buying tickets and making the trek up to Lynah. I suspect the number is far greater than just my anecdotal evidence.
Hell, even I missed this weekend's women's games due to a case of the Stomach Pains. Not that I missed much, though...
Quote from: stereax on December 08, 2025, 05:45:53 PMQuote from: BearLover on December 08, 2025, 05:19:11 PMQuote from: stereax on December 08, 2025, 04:53:10 PMI mean, I can put the game on and watch it at home.
That's also a factor.
It's a factor, but I suspect more for the townies. You're one of the few student super-fans (which I say as a compliment). I bet for most students ESPN+ viewership is nil.
Au contraire, actually. I know several fans who will just pirate the game if they're not up to buying tickets and making the trek up to Lynah. I suspect the number is far greater than just my anecdotal evidence.
Hell, even I missed this weekend's women's games due to a case of the Stomach Pains. Not that I missed much, though...
You could watch the games online (I think for free?) when I was in school. The stream quality was horrible, granted, but none of the students seemed remotely interested. Nobody watched or followed the away games either, even though those often were higher quality. So I'm definitely skeptical that the ability to watch on your computer is affecting attendance much at all. The reality is that few students care about Cornell hockey, most just want to attend and fun and exciting event. I'd be very surprised almost anyone cares enough to follow online.
Quote from: stereax on December 08, 2025, 05:45:53 PMHell, even I missed this weekend's women's games due to a case of the Stomach Pains.
I thought you swore off the Taco Bell?
Quote from: BearLover on December 08, 2025, 03:36:08 PMEh, I missed the boat by a few years on the overnight campouts, but I don't really buy that it should be so difficult to fill a 4,000-person rink (maybe 1,500 of which are student seats?). College football and hoops sell out giant arenas to the same kids who are evidently obsessed with their cell phones and staying in. I think it's doable for Cornell hockey to sell 1/25 as many tickets as Clemson football, given both schools have the same number of students.
Again you make a statistical comparison error by comparing sellouts of clemson hoop and football to cornell.
Here are the Cornell mens's hoop home game attendance figures for the last 3 years. That's what you ought to compare to the Hockey attendance.
Year Home Games avg attendance
24-25 14 983
23-24 11 1,129
22-23 13 822
Attendance figures make it clear:
-almost nobody cares about sports at Cornell, period.
-more people seem to care about hockey than basketball.
If sold-out sporting spectacles in the three major men's sports (football, hoop, ice-hockey) are your big thing and you want top-tier academics, then you've got only one choice, and that's Michigan.
But you didn't go to Michigan, mr. bearlover, you went to Cornell. Nothing short of a generational shift in american culture or Cornell leaving the IVY league for the Big ten is going to change the slow decline in sporting attendance. So get over it already since the only way you could possibly influence this is if you were to open your wallet and give students a free ticket plus a per-game stipend of something like $50 a head ($75 if they participaite in at least 1 mass cheer per period) to show up and guarantee a sellout.
Kids aren't even having sex at anything near historical rates these days, and you want to get them to a cold arena for a sport they don't give a fuck about?
Quote from: abmarks on December 09, 2025, 03:07:32 AMQuote from: BearLover on December 08, 2025, 03:36:08 PMEh, I missed the boat by a few years on the overnight campouts, but I don't really buy that it should be so difficult to fill a 4,000-person rink (maybe 1,500 of which are student seats?). College football and hoops sell out giant arenas to the same kids who are evidently obsessed with their cell phones and staying in. I think it's doable for Cornell hockey to sell 1/25 as many tickets as Clemson football, given both schools have the same number of students.
Again you make a statistical comparison error by comparing sellouts of clemson hoop and football to cornell.
Here are the Cornell mens's hoop home game attendance figures for the last 3 years. That's what you ought to compare to the Hockey attendance.
Year Home Games avg attendance
24-25 14 983
23-24 11 1,129
22-23 13 822
Attendance figures make it clear:
-almost nobody cares about sports at Cornell, period.
-more people seem to care about hockey than basketball.
If sold-out sporting spectacles in the three major men's sports (football, hoop, ice-hockey) are your big thing and you want top-tier academics, then you've got only one choice, and that's Michigan.
But you didn't go to Michigan, mr. bearlover, you went to Cornell. Nothing short of a generational shift in american culture or Cornell leaving the IVY league for the Big ten is going to change the slow decline in sporting attendance. So get over it already since the only way you could possibly influence this is if you were to open your wallet and give students a free ticket plus a per-game stipend of something like $50 a head ($75 if they participaite in at least 1 mass cheer per period) to show up and guarantee a sellout.
Kids aren't even having sex at anything near historical rates these days, and you want to get them to a cold arena for a sport they don't give a fuck about?
This post totally blows, even by your standards. As usual, you're rude, you don't argue in good faith, and your arguments suck. I usually ignore you but since you decided to insult me right from the jump, you actually succeeded at pulling me in this time. Here is a list a reasons your post blows:
1. The very first word in your post makes it clear this isn't about the current topic but rather about BearLover: "
Again you make a statistical comparison error..." The "again" serves no purpose here other than to say "you're stupid." Great way to start a discussion!
2. I don't know if you're actually this obtuse but since I said it right in my post, I'm dumbfounded you missed it: my post is specifically responding to the notion that
kids are too addicted to their phones and don't like going out anymore. So no, there's nothing wrong with the "statistical comparison" I used.
I wasn't even doing a "statistical comparison." I was showing that, even in today's age, there are sporting events that kids attend orders of magnitude better attended than Lynah despite similar population size.
3A. This entire thread is premised on the point that Lynah used to be more popular. So even if I
was doing a "statistical comparison," a snapshot in time of Cornell basketball is absolutely not the right one. For Cornell basketball attendance to have any bearing on this conversation, you'd have to show it has decreased commensurately with hockey attendance since the Lynah heyday in 2005ish. Otherwise, it indicates
absolutely nothing because you haven't shown it was
ever something students cared about.
3B. I want to reiterate this point because it's illustrative. You come out of nowhere to call me stupid (first word), misunderstand the point of my post, and then introduce a "superior" "statistical comparison." But your statistical comparison is rubbish! It totally missed the point! I'm speaking very explicitly about a decline, over years, of Lynah attendance, and then you come in here with figures about Cornell basketball in the last 3 years as though they have some bearing on this conversation???
4. As I've said numerous times (I guess you missed that part too), the bar to clear is much lower in a 4,000 person rink than a 100,000 person football stadium. So even if directionally it IS true that people are less interested (which I have NEVER disputed), the relevant question is whether we can find 500-1000 more people to attend the games across the entire population of Cornell students, Cornell professors, Cornell employees, people who live in Ithaca and the surrounding towns, alumni, etc. My belief is that yes, you can, given the massive population at issue here. Your rude, bad-faith, and stupid post makes a feeble attempt to show few care about Cornell hockey, but it does not even attempt to show that this number is low enough to make selling out Lynah difficult or impossible.
I have friends who did not attend a hockey game until the spring of their Senior year. They didn't even know there was hockey at the school or that the atmosphere was so insane (this is 25 years ago). Why? Because they were nerds who study all the time, because Cornell is about academics, which is why they went there, and because they genuinely didn't know anything about sports or care until that exact moment. Of course there are lots of more well rounded kids, and the stands were full full in those days, but I'm telling you that if you care about watching sports and also getting a few classes in, Cornell isn't your school. Or, you're at the frat watching ACC football on Saturday like 98% of the country.
Quote from: The Rancor on December 09, 2025, 10:27:11 AMI have friends who did not attend a hockey game until the spring of their Senior year. They didn't even know there was hockey at the school or that the atmosphere was so insane (this is 25 years ago). Why? Because they were nerds who study all the time, because Cornell is about academics, which is why they went there, and because they genuinely didn't know anything about sports or care until that exact moment. Of course there are lots of more well rounded kids, and the stands were full full in those days, but I'm telling you that if you care about watching sports and also getting a few classes in, Cornell isn't your school. Or, you're at the frat watching ACC football on Saturday like 98% of the country.
Yes but seriously I'm just trying to get 500 more people to come to Lynah each game. I have no illusions about selling out Schoellkopf or anything like that. I think there are definitely things Cornell could do to improve attendance. Our ticket prices are much higher than most other schools', as one example.
Also:
ACC football?
Quote from: stereax on December 08, 2025, 05:45:53 PMI missed this weekend's women's games due to a case of the Stomach Pains.
They would have made it worse.
I think it's all about getting the kids that have never been to a game into Lynah the first time.
I went to my first game as a freshman in 1982. (It may even have been the Harvard game because I definitely was at the Harvard game that season.) I probably went to only three or four games that entire season, but then bought season tickets for my last three years at Cornell and for every year since then, except for the few years I was out of Ithaca before moving back. I had never followed hockey at all. It was the Lynah atmosphere that hooked me. Like BearLover, (and I'm guessing nearly everyone here) I'd really like to see Lynah more like it was in "the old days." I doubt there's a simple answer. I doubt even more that any discussion here will have any impact at all.
That being said, I think one thing that would help, if we could somehow get the administration to buy in, would be giving every freshman a personalized voucher good for one free admission to any game. Vouchers have to be redeemed for tickets, and the freebies could be allocated based on anticipated sales. So perhaps only 50 or 100 of these freebies set aside for the Harvard game, and hundreds available for games unlikely to sell out.
I have to think that there are students out there who would be "hooked" if they experience a game, but may never go if they aren't given the one free ticket.
The "up-front" cost to Cornell would be negligible, since they would manage the inventory in such a way that it shouldn't really cannibalize sales.
I doubt anything like this will ever happen, but I think it would work if it were tried.
Quote from: VIEWfromK on December 08, 2025, 10:35:11 PMQuote from: stereax on December 08, 2025, 05:45:53 PMHell, even I missed this weekend's women's games due to a case of the Stomach Pains.
I thought you swore off the Taco Bell?
I did... fun fact, I missed the entire third period and shootout of the regular season men's home game vs Yale due to Taco Bell, lol. But nah, my stomach's just being fucky again. It happens. :/
Quote from: andyw2100 on December 09, 2025, 12:15:08 PMI think it's all about getting the kids that have never been to a game into Lynah the first time.
THIS!!!
Every time I manage to bring a friend to Lynah, they're AMAZED at the game, the atmosphere, all of it. It's genuinely fun as hell, especially if you have someone with you who "knows the ropes". Problem is getting people to that FIRST game. (And then retaining them. But you can't retain if you don't go to the first game.)
I don't attend many other sports - iirc, their tickets are almost all free, though. Does anyone have an estimate of how the other sports fill their barns?
Quote from: BearLover on December 07, 2025, 11:46:21 PMQuote from: tml5 on September 04, 2002, 02:40:54 AMWell this sucks. Someone tell me why they always do this on a tournament weekend? Ah, for it to be last fall when I was too gimpy. . . no, wait, I take that back. (Relatively) non-gimpy is good. Think I can get top of section G if I go in on Monday morning?
There was a time not that long ago when students were hopeful they could get season tickets at the top of section G...
LOL that was me. 😂
I wonder where I ended up getting tickets... wherever they were, I'm sure I had a great time at the games.
Quote from: stereax on December 09, 2025, 09:28:58 PMQuote from: andyw2100 on December 09, 2025, 12:15:08 PMI think it's all about getting the kids that have never been to a game into Lynah the first time.
THIS!!!
Every time I manage to bring a friend to Lynah, they're AMAZED at the game, the atmosphere, all of it. It's genuinely fun as hell, especially if you have someone with you who "knows the ropes". Problem is getting people to that FIRST game. (And then retaining them. But you can't retain if you don't go to the first game.)
I don't attend many other sports - iirc, their tickets are almost all free, though. Does anyone have an estimate of how the other sports fill their barns?
No other sports here come close to capacity, even for NCAA tournament games. It's always good to improve of course, but I'm very happy with where we are at in terms of hockey attendance.
Quote from: chimpfood on December 09, 2025, 11:45:26 PMQuote from: stereax on December 09, 2025, 09:28:58 PMQuote from: andyw2100 on December 09, 2025, 12:15:08 PMI think it's all about getting the kids that have never been to a game into Lynah the first time.
THIS!!!
Every time I manage to bring a friend to Lynah, they're AMAZED at the game, the atmosphere, all of it. It's genuinely fun as hell, especially if you have someone with you who "knows the ropes". Problem is getting people to that FIRST game. (And then retaining them. But you can't retain if you don't go to the first game.)
I don't attend many other sports - iirc, their tickets are almost all free, though. Does anyone have an estimate of how the other sports fill their barns?
No other sports here come close to capacity, even for NCAA tournament games. It's always good to improve of course, but I'm very happy with where we are at in terms of hockey attendance.
In 2024 the N C State wrestling meet was held in Bartels.
It was in anticipation of a crowd too large for the Friedman center. I'm not sure how many attended.
Quote from: marty on December 10, 2025, 07:49:30 AMQuote from: chimpfood on December 09, 2025, 11:45:26 PMQuote from: stereax on December 09, 2025, 09:28:58 PMQuote from: andyw2100 on December 09, 2025, 12:15:08 PMI think it's all about getting the kids that have never been to a game into Lynah the first time.
THIS!!!
Every time I manage to bring a friend to Lynah, they're AMAZED at the game, the atmosphere, all of it. It's genuinely fun as hell, especially if you have someone with you who "knows the ropes". Problem is getting people to that FIRST game. (And then retaining them. But you can't retain if you don't go to the first game.)
I don't attend many other sports - iirc, their tickets are almost all free, though. Does anyone have an estimate of how the other sports fill their barns?
No other sports here come close to capacity, even for NCAA tournament games. It's always good to improve of course, but I'm very happy with where we are at in terms of hockey attendance.
In 2024 the N C State wrestling meet was held in Bartels.
It was in anticipation of a crowd too large for the Friedman center. I'm not sure how many attended.
From what I understand, that has had to happen regularly for big wrestling matches. Which makes me wonder with a palace to wrestling (1st stand-alone wrestling-only facility in the nation, which we absolutely needed, for reasons) why they didn't design enough seating capacity in the first place. Beautiful new facility that we can't use half the time. Great job everyone.
Always makes me suspicious for other projects like the new fieldhouse.
Quote from: RichH on December 10, 2025, 11:45:01 AMQuote from: marty on December 10, 2025, 07:49:30 AMQuote from: chimpfood on December 09, 2025, 11:45:26 PMQuote from: stereax on December 09, 2025, 09:28:58 PMQuote from: andyw2100 on December 09, 2025, 12:15:08 PMI think it's all about getting the kids that have never been to a game into Lynah the first time.
THIS!!!
Every time I manage to bring a friend to Lynah, they're AMAZED at the game, the atmosphere, all of it. It's genuinely fun as hell, especially if you have someone with you who "knows the ropes". Problem is getting people to that FIRST game. (And then retaining them. But you can't retain if you don't go to the first game.)
I don't attend many other sports - iirc, their tickets are almost all free, though. Does anyone have an estimate of how the other sports fill their barns?
No other sports here come close to capacity, even for NCAA tournament games. It's always good to improve of course, but I'm very happy with where we are at in terms of hockey attendance.
In 2024 the N C State wrestling meet was held in Bartels.
It was in anticipation of a crowd too large for the Friedman center. I'm not sure how many attended.
From what I understand, that has had to happen regularly for big wrestling matches. Which makes me wonder with a palace to wrestling (1st stand-alone wrestling-only facility in the nation, which we absolutely needed, for reasons) why they didn't design enough seating capacity in the first place. Beautiful new facility that we can't use half the time. Great job everyone.
Always makes me suspicious for other projects like the new fieldhouse.
We usually don't need more seating than Friedman requires. Columbia holds a lot of their meets on the basketball court too and they *definitely* don't need the space.
We got a special wrestling building because there is a billionaire donor (https://nwhof.org/hall_of_fame/bio/134) who wrestled at Cornell and Rob Koll found his g-spot. The seating capacity for dual meets is a secondary concern to the standalone training facility. Friedman wasn't built primarily for the fans, even though a tight theater in the round setup is great for wrestling. Bartels is a perfectly good place to watch a meet. On the other hand, the full team has plenty of room to train when they retract the stands plus they have a rehab facility, weight room and other perks in the building.
It's obviously a bit much from the perspective of "how important is sports, really" but less so in the context of "is this school attractive for an elite wrestler who can't recieve a scholarship and probably won't get much in NIL."
Rich, you have made* a powerful* enemy* today.
*false
Quote from: ugarte on December 10, 2025, 12:25:04 PMQuote from: RichH on December 10, 2025, 11:45:01 AMQuote from: marty on December 10, 2025, 07:49:30 AMQuote from: chimpfood on December 09, 2025, 11:45:26 PMQuote from: stereax on December 09, 2025, 09:28:58 PMQuote from: andyw2100 on December 09, 2025, 12:15:08 PMI think it's all about getting the kids that have never been to a game into Lynah the first time.
THIS!!!
Every time I manage to bring a friend to Lynah, they're AMAZED at the game, the atmosphere, all of it. It's genuinely fun as hell, especially if you have someone with you who "knows the ropes". Problem is getting people to that FIRST game. (And then retaining them. But you can't retain if you don't go to the first game.)
I don't attend many other sports - iirc, their tickets are almost all free, though. Does anyone have an estimate of how the other sports fill their barns?
No other sports here come close to capacity, even for NCAA tournament games. It's always good to improve of course, but I'm very happy with where we are at in terms of hockey attendance.
In 2024 the N C State wrestling meet was held in Bartels.
It was in anticipation of a crowd too large for the Friedman center. I'm not sure how many attended.
From what I understand, that has had to happen regularly for big wrestling matches. Which makes me wonder with a palace to wrestling (1st stand-alone wrestling-only facility in the nation, which we absolutely needed, for reasons) why they didn't design enough seating capacity in the first place. Beautiful new facility that we can't use half the time. Great job everyone.
Always makes me suspicious for other projects like the new fieldhouse.
We usually don't need more seating than Friedman requires. Columbia holds a lot of their meets on the basketball court too and they *definitely* don't need the space.
We got a special wrestling building because there is a billionaire donor (https://nwhof.org/hall_of_fame/bio/134) who wrestled at Cornell and Rob Koll found his g-spot. The seating capacity for dual meets is a secondary concern to the standalone training facility. Friedman wasn't built primarily for the fans, even though a tight theater in the round setup is great for wrestling. Bartels is a perfectly good place to watch a meet. On the other hand, the full team has plenty of room to train when they retract the stands plus they have a rehab facility, weight room and other perks in the building.
It's obviously a bit much from the perspective of "how important is sports, really" but less so in the context of "is this school attractive for an elite wrestler who can't recieve a scholarship and probably won't get much in NIL."
Rich, you have made* a powerful* enemy* today.
*false
My Ugarte bait worked perfectly, and thank you for the good faith response.
That said, I still think more consideration should have been made for seating to avoid one program taking up an in-demand venue when they just got their own.
And yes, over the last 10 years or so I have been grappling (yes, I did) with the "maybe we're putting sports in an outsized place of importance in our lives" mentality.
Quote from: RichH on December 10, 2025, 01:09:10 PMThat said, I still think more consideration should have been made for seating to avoid one program taking up an in-demand venue when they just got their own.
It's maybe five hours a year on weekend afternoons and weeknights!
Quote from: ugarte on December 10, 2025, 01:14:43 PMQuote from: RichH on December 10, 2025, 01:09:10 PMThat said, I still think more consideration should have been made for seating to avoid one program taking up an in-demand venue when they just got their own.
It's maybe five hours a year on weekend afternoons and weeknights!
It was probably explained at the time, but I'm lazy, so: What was the deal with wrestling at Barton that one time last season (or was it the one before)?
Quote from: Weder on December 10, 2025, 05:25:49 PMQuote from: ugarte on December 10, 2025, 01:14:43 PMQuote from: RichH on December 10, 2025, 01:09:10 PMThat said, I still think more consideration should have been made for seating to avoid one program taking up an in-demand venue when they just got their own.
It's maybe five hours a year on weekend afternoons and weeknights!
It was probably explained at the time, but I'm lazy, so: What was the deal with wrestling at Barton that one time last season (or was it the one before)?
Hmm I thought that was going to be Rumble and Tumble (https://cornellbigred.com/news/2025/1/10/no-12-wrestling-host-no-19-lehigh-at-rumble-and-tumble.aspx) - a joint event with the gymnastics team - but that was apparently at Newman.
And I found it. Last year we hosted Buffalo for a dual meet at Barton on a Saturday, but used Barton because we also hosted a big multi-team, multi-mat event (the Big Red Invite (https://cornellbigred.com/news/2024/11/21/wrestling-opens-home-slate-with-two-events.aspx)) that required a lot more floor space the next day.
I assume it was easier to set up for the bigger event on Saturday before we faced Buffalo and have both events in Barton than the alternative.
Quote from: ugarte on December 10, 2025, 06:37:03 PMQuote from: Weder on December 10, 2025, 05:25:49 PMQuote from: ugarte on December 10, 2025, 01:14:43 PMQuote from: RichH on December 10, 2025, 01:09:10 PMThat said, I still think more consideration should have been made for seating to avoid one program taking up an in-demand venue when they just got their own.
It's maybe five hours a year on weekend afternoons and weeknights!
It was probably explained at the time, but I'm lazy, so: What was the deal with wrestling at Barton that one time last season (or was it the one before)?
Hmm I thought that was going to be Rumble and Tumble (https://cornellbigred.com/news/2025/1/10/no-12-wrestling-host-no-19-lehigh-at-rumble-and-tumble.aspx) - a joint event with the gymnastics team - but that was apparently at Newman.
And I found it. Last year we hosted Buffalo for a dual meet at Barton on a Saturday, but used Barton because we also hosted a big multi-team, multi-mat event (the Big Red Invite (https://cornellbigred.com/news/2024/11/21/wrestling-opens-home-slate-with-two-events.aspx)) that required a lot more floor space the next day.
I assume it was easier to set up for the bigger event on Saturday before we faced Buffalo and have both events in Barton than the alternative.
The writer of Buffalo plus Big Red Invite story doesn't seem to distinguish between a "dual" and a "duel".
Maybe they know something we don't? ???
Quote from: David Harding on December 10, 2025, 11:16:38 PMQuote from: ugarte on December 10, 2025, 06:37:03 PMQuote from: Weder on December 10, 2025, 05:25:49 PMQuote from: ugarte on December 10, 2025, 01:14:43 PMQuote from: RichH on December 10, 2025, 01:09:10 PMThat said, I still think more consideration should have been made for seating to avoid one program taking up an in-demand venue when they just got their own.
It's maybe five hours a year on weekend afternoons and weeknights!
It was probably explained at the time, but I'm lazy, so: What was the deal with wrestling at Barton that one time last season (or was it the one before)?
Hmm I thought that was going to be Rumble and Tumble (https://cornellbigred.com/news/2025/1/10/no-12-wrestling-host-no-19-lehigh-at-rumble-and-tumble.aspx) - a joint event with the gymnastics team - but that was apparently at Newman.
And I found it. Last year we hosted Buffalo for a dual meet at Barton on a Saturday, but used Barton because we also hosted a big multi-team, multi-mat event (the Big Red Invite (https://cornellbigred.com/news/2024/11/21/wrestling-opens-home-slate-with-two-events.aspx)) that required a lot more floor space the next day.
I assume it was easier to set up for the bigger event on Saturday before we faced Buffalo and have both events in Barton than the alternative.
The writer of Buffalo plus Big Red Invite story doesn't seem to distinguish between a "dual" and a "duel".
one of those homophones like cue and queue where the context of the latter is dangerously appropriate to those who don't already know which one to use.
Quote from: David Harding on December 10, 2025, 11:16:38 PMQuote from: ugarte on December 10, 2025, 06:37:03 PMQuote from: Weder on December 10, 2025, 05:25:49 PMQuote from: ugarte on December 10, 2025, 01:14:43 PMQuote from: RichH on December 10, 2025, 01:09:10 PMThat said, I still think more consideration should have been made for seating to avoid one program taking up an in-demand venue when they just got their own.
It's maybe five hours a year on weekend afternoons and weeknights!
It was probably explained at the time, but I'm lazy, so: What was the deal with wrestling at Barton that one time last season (or was it the one before)?
Hmm I thought that was going to be Rumble and Tumble (https://cornellbigred.com/news/2025/1/10/no-12-wrestling-host-no-19-lehigh-at-rumble-and-tumble.aspx) - a joint event with the gymnastics team - but that was apparently at Newman.
And I found it. Last year we hosted Buffalo for a dual meet at Barton on a Saturday, but used Barton because we also hosted a big multi-team, multi-mat event (the Big Red Invite (https://cornellbigred.com/news/2024/11/21/wrestling-opens-home-slate-with-two-events.aspx)) that required a lot more floor space the next day.
I assume it was easier to set up for the bigger event on Saturday before we faced Buffalo and have both events in Barton than the alternative.
The writer of Buffalo plus Big Red Invite story doesn't seem to distinguish between a "dual" and a "duel".
Dual is correct in regards to wrestling. A dual meet is where two teams wrestle against each other, one person from each team per weight class, each match earns teams points, and a winning team is declared. That's opposed to a meet where individuals are entered in a bracketing system to decide a champion amongst many individuals but teams are not competing for a win.
You can also have double duals, which is four teams total, and each team wrestles two others in pre-determined matchups on the same day.
You do non want duels in wrestling. They do not need weapons. As my wrestling coach son said when I joked about doing ax throwing as a social event for the team, "That's an awful idea. They do enough damage to each other with their bare hands."
Quote from: pjd8 on December 12, 2025, 02:45:54 AMQuote from: David Harding on December 10, 2025, 11:16:38 PMQuote from: ugarte on December 10, 2025, 06:37:03 PMQuote from: Weder on December 10, 2025, 05:25:49 PMQuote from: ugarte on December 10, 2025, 01:14:43 PMQuote from: RichH on December 10, 2025, 01:09:10 PMThat said, I still think more consideration should have been made for seating to avoid one program taking up an in-demand venue when they just got their own.
It's maybe five hours a year on weekend afternoons and weeknights!
It was probably explained at the time, but I'm lazy, so: What was the deal with wrestling at Barton that one time last season (or was it the one before)?
Hmm I thought that was going to be Rumble and Tumble (https://cornellbigred.com/news/2025/1/10/no-12-wrestling-host-no-19-lehigh-at-rumble-and-tumble.aspx) - a joint event with the gymnastics team - but that was apparently at Newman.
And I found it. Last year we hosted Buffalo for a dual meet at Barton on a Saturday, but used Barton because we also hosted a big multi-team, multi-mat event (the Big Red Invite (https://cornellbigred.com/news/2024/11/21/wrestling-opens-home-slate-with-two-events.aspx)) that required a lot more floor space the next day.
I assume it was easier to set up for the bigger event on Saturday before we faced Buffalo and have both events in Barton than the alternative.
The writer of Buffalo plus Big Red Invite story doesn't seem to distinguish between a "dual" and a "duel".
Dual is correct in regards to wrestling. A dual meet is where two teams wrestle against each other, one person from each team per weight class, each match earns teams points, and a winning team is declared. That's opposed to a meet where individuals are entered in a bracketing system to decide a champion amongst many individuals but teams are not competing for a win.
You can also have double duals, which is four teams total, and each team wrestles two others in pre-determined matchups on the same day.
You do non want duels in wrestling. They do not need weapons. As my wrestling coach son said when I joked about doing ax throwing as a social event for the team, "That's an awful idea. They do enough damage to each other with their bare hands."
lol this is correct but without rereading the article I assumed it used duel incorrectly
Quote from: ugarte on December 12, 2025, 10:49:09 AMlol this is correct but without rereading the article I assumed it used duel incorrectly
It's a fair cop.
Quote from: Trotsky on December 12, 2025, 01:24:51 PMQuote from: ugarte on December 12, 2025, 10:49:09 AMlol this is correct but without rereading the article I assumed it used duel incorrectly
It's a fair cop.
...but society's to blame."
"Right. We'll arrest him then."
Quote from: ugarte on December 12, 2025, 10:49:09 AMQuote from: pjd8 on December 12, 2025, 02:45:54 AMQuote from: David Harding on December 10, 2025, 11:16:38 PMQuote from: ugarte on December 10, 2025, 06:37:03 PMQuote from: Weder on December 10, 2025, 05:25:49 PMQuote from: ugarte on December 10, 2025, 01:14:43 PMQuote from: RichH on December 10, 2025, 01:09:10 PMThat said, I still think more consideration should have been made for seating to avoid one program taking up an in-demand venue when they just got their own.
It's maybe five hours a year on weekend afternoons and weeknights!
It was probably explained at the time, but I'm lazy, so: What was the deal with wrestling at Barton that one time last season (or was it the one before)?
Hmm I thought that was going to be Rumble and Tumble (https://cornellbigred.com/news/2025/1/10/no-12-wrestling-host-no-19-lehigh-at-rumble-and-tumble.aspx) - a joint event with the gymnastics team - but that was apparently at Newman.
And I found it. Last year we hosted Buffalo for a dual meet at Barton on a Saturday, but used Barton because we also hosted a big multi-team, multi-mat event (the Big Red Invite (https://cornellbigred.com/news/2024/11/21/wrestling-opens-home-slate-with-two-events.aspx)) that required a lot more floor space the next day.
I assume it was easier to set up for the bigger event on Saturday before we faced Buffalo and have both events in Barton than the alternative.
The writer of Buffalo plus Big Red Invite story doesn't seem to distinguish between a "dual" and a "duel".
Dual is correct in regards to wrestling. A dual meet is where two teams wrestle against each other, one person from each team per weight class, each match earns teams points, and a winning team is declared. That's opposed to a meet where individuals are entered in a bracketing system to decide a champion amongst many individuals but teams are not competing for a win.
You can also have double duals, which is four teams total, and each team wrestles two others in pre-determined matchups on the same day.
You do non want duels in wrestling. They do not need weapons. As my wrestling coach son said when I joked about doing ax throwing as a social event for the team, "That's an awful idea. They do enough damage to each other with their bare hands."
lol this is correct but without rereading the article I assumed it used duel incorrectly
What puzzled me most about the writer's incompetence was that both words appear in the article multiple times. Perhaps an editor didn't catch and charge all the duels.