No #1 for you, Miami....
USCHO.com/CSTV Division I Men's Poll
December 12, 2005
Team (FPV) Record Points Last Poll
1 Wisconsin (24) 14-2-2 774 1
2 Miami (14) 12-2-2 764 2
3 Vermont ( 2) 11-3-1 723 3
4 Minnesota 9-5-4 621 8
5 Boston College 9-4-1 619 6
6 Michigan 11-5-1 607 7
7 Colorado College 13-6-1 575 4
8 Cornell 8-3-1 483 9
9 Maine 11-5-0 468 10
10 North Dakota 10-7-1 447 5
11 Colgate 10-2-3 391 13
12 New Hampshire 9-6-3 330 12
13 Denver 9-7-2 328 11
14 Harvard 9-4-1 311 15
15 St. Lawrence 11-6-1 235 14
16 Clarkson 10-5-1 207 16
17 Providence 9-6-1 186 19
18 Lake Superior 9-5-4 93 NR
19 Bemidji State 9-4-1 58 17
20 Boston University 6-7-2 53 18
ORV: Ohio State 48, Nebraska-Omaha 21, Michigan State 16, Ferris State 11,
Minnesota-Duluth 8, Northern Michigan 7, Mercyhurst 6, Alabama-Huntsville 2,
Holy Cross 2, Niagara 2, Union 2, Dartmouth 1, St. Cloud State 1
USA Today/USA Hockey Magazine Men's College Hockey Poll
December 12, 2005
Team Points (FPV) Last Poll Record
1 University of Wisconsin 491 (21) 1 14-2-2
2 Miami (Ohio) University 482 (13) 2 12-2-2
3 University of Vermont 452 3 11-3-1
4 University of Minnesota 377 8 9-5-4
5 Boston College 363 7 9-4-1
6 University of Michigan 352 6 11-5-1
7 Colorado College 282 5 13-6-1
8 University of Maine 245 10 11-5-0
9 University of North Dakota 197 4 10-7-1
10 Cornell University 156 13 8-3-1
11 Colgate University 152 12 10-2-3
12 University of New Hampshire 139 9 9-6-3
13 University of Denver 131 10 9-7-2
14 Harvard University 110 NR 9-4-1
15 Clarkson University 56 15 10-5-1
ORV: St. Lawrence University 52, Providence College 15, The Ohio State University 14,
Mercyhurst College 12, Boston University 2.
USA Today pollsters were clearly impressed with Doug Krantz having the hardest shot and being the fastest skater.
It definately seems that the USCHO pollsters are a little bit biased (to Hockey Least)
New Hampshire is still in the same spot after losing to Ha (ahem) *sucks* in tragic fashion.
Besides Miami (who almost lost to St. Lawrence) and Wisconsin, there are no really dominant teams this year.
Heck - CC lost to UM-Duluth, and Denver got SHUT OUT by UAA.
I'll just stick to the PWR list and go from there.
Perhaps the fact that Jason L got his jersey signed on both sides knocked their socks off the most? ::nut::
If polls mattered...
At this rate, it'd seem the best strategy for Schafer to take is to not schedule any games. We'd be #1 in no time!
[Q]dadeo Wrote:
I'll just stick to the PWR list and go from there.[/q]
Or KRACH: http://www.collegehockeynews.com/ratings/krach.php
Collegehockeynews and Siouxsports http://siouxsports.com/hockey/rankings/combined.php
are currently reporting different KRACH rankings.
Any clues as to which is inaccurate? The collegehockeynews page certainly appears to be a more complete presentation as it contains ratings as well as ranking.
Others on USCHO have previously reported that the Sioux sports site appears to lag by several days in getting their page updated. The RPI page (http://rpihockey.net/misc.rank1.shtml) seems to be quicker to update, but I bet that CHN is up-to-date as well.
[Q]DeltaOne81 Wrote:
If polls mattered...
At this rate, it'd seem the best strategy for Schafer to take is to not schedule any games. We'd be #1 in no time![/q]
haha beat me to it. I was just about to post the same message.
Nobody does a bye week like us.
[Q]French Rage Wrote:
Nobody does a bye week like us.[/q]
You said it. We have a pretty common pattern this year: we go up when we don't play and go down when we do. Do we have to play in Estero?
Well - If the NCAA used KRACH, i would look at it. But - seeing as the NCAA go by strict guidelines. (well, you know what i mean). I will pay attention to them, seeing as I dont wanna go to MInny again in March. Well, I will if I have to...but... rather be in Albany (has it seemed that the pepsi ice was any better last year btw)
[Q]ugarte Wrote:
[Q2]French Rage Wrote:
Nobody does a bye week like us.[/Q]
You said it. We have a pretty common pattern this year: we go up when we don't play and go down when we do. Do we have to play in Estero?[/q]
Let's just send Chabot and only Chabot.
[Q]dadeo Wrote:
It definately seems that the USCHO pollsters are a little bit biased (to Hockey Least)[/q]
Vermont getting first-place votes demonstrates that pretty well.
[Q]jmh30 Wrote:
[Q2]dadeo Wrote:
It definately seems that the USCHO pollsters are a little bit biased (to Hockey Least)[/Q]
Vermont getting first-place votes demonstrates that pretty well.[/q]
Has anyone on this board that is regularly bashing Vermont actually seen them play this year? I have. And they are a very good team. Very highly skilled and they come to play every night. (In those respects, they have it over us on both measures).
I'm not sure where all the anti-Vermont sentiment has come from in the last 5-6 years or so, but people need to be a little objective.
Comparing the two polls re: HE cited teams in the top 15 (since usa today only goes 15 deep) there is only one difference between the two polls. All the teams are in the exact same spots except for Maine which is a spot higher in the USA Today.
USCHO
3 Vermont ( 2) 11-3-1 723 3
5 Boston College 9-4-1 619 6
9 Maine 11-5-0 468 10
12 New Hampshire 9-6-3 330 12
USAToday
3 University of Vermont 452 3 11-3-1
5 Boston College 363 7 9-4-1
8 University of Maine 245 10 11-5-0
12 University of New Hampshire 139 9 9-6-3
Hockey East bias? My ass.
And for you Krachies, CHN Krach has Vermont at #4. So stop whining about Vermont being overrated unless they start losing and don't drop. If we were 11-3-1 instead of 8-3-1 and at #4 you wouldn't be whining
[Q]jkahn Wrote:
Collegehockeynews and Siouxsports
are currently reporting different KRACH rankings.
Any clues as to which is inaccurate?[/q]
Siouxsports does not include RIT in its calculations.
[Q]Scersk '97 Wrote:
[Q2]jkahn Wrote:
Collegehockeynews and Siouxsports
are currently reporting different KRACH rankings.
Any clues as to which is inaccurate?[/Q]
Siouxsports does not include RIT in its calculations.
[/q]
They also normalize them so that 100 is North Dakota, rather than a team with a RRWP of .500.
Maybe because other than a win at Maine, Vermont has lost or tied every good HE team they played, but managed to sweep the challenging OOC competition of MT, UAA, UMDx2, and Niagarax2. I think their game against SLU Saturday will give us a better idea.
Im not saying that UVm is a bad team. Im just saying is it deserving of such a high rank. (and first place votes?) All Vermont has proven is that they can win games against average and subpar teams (and actually lost to Mass., but won against Maine)
Also, after UNHs pretty poor week, the pollsters decided to leave them where they are.
[Q]French Rage Wrote:
Maybe because other than a win at Maine, Vermont has lost or tied every good HE team they played, but managed to sweep the challenging OOC competition of MT, UAA, UMDx2, and Niagarax2. I think their game against SLU Saturday will give us a better idea.[/q]
But their victories against UMD were impressive and they also have decent victories against Providence (up and down, terrible against ECAC, but just beat BU and Maine)and tied UNH. I think they'd beat us right now at a neutral location.
[Q]abmarks Wrote:
I'm not sure where all the anti-Vermont sentiment has come from in the last 5-6 years or so, but people need to be a little objective. [/q]
Agreed. I wish they were still in the ECAC, would improve the strength of the conference. It will take years for Quinnipiac to develop a legitimate D1 program that can compete in the top half of the league.
[Q]abmarks Wrote:
[Q2]jmh30 Wrote:
[Q2]dadeo Wrote:
It definately seems that the USCHO pollsters are a little bit biased (to Hockey Least)[/Q]
Vermont getting first-place votes demonstrates that pretty well.[/Q]
Has anyone on this board that is regularly bashing Vermont actually seen them play this year? I have. And they are a very good team. Very highly skilled and they come to play every night. (In those respects, they have it over us on both measures).
I'm not sure where all the anti-Vermont sentiment has come from in the last 5-6 years or so, but people need to be a little objective.
Comparing the two polls re: HE cited teams in the top 15 (since usa today only goes 15 deep) there is only one difference between the two polls. All the teams are in the exact same spots except for Maine which is a spot higher in the USA Today.
USCHO
3 Vermont ( 2) 11-3-1 723 3
5 Boston College 9-4-1 619 6
9 Maine 11-5-0 468 10
12 New Hampshire 9-6-3 330 12
USAToday
3 University of Vermont 452 3 11-3-1
5 Boston College 363 7 9-4-1
8 University of Maine 245 10 11-5-0
12 University of New Hampshire 139 9 9-6-3
Hockey East bias? My ass.
And for you Krachies, CHN Krach has Vermont at #4. So stop whining about Vermont being overrated unless they start losing and don't drop. If we were 11-3-1 instead of 8-3-1 and at #4 you wouldn't be whining[/q]
This was a nice rant, but it completely missed the point, which was not that UVM is not a good team, but that an "up and coming" team from the ECAC with a similar record to Vermont's would not, so early in the season, be getting first place votes. It takes a few seasons to accumulate that sort of credibility coming from the ECAC (SLU and Clarkson, coming off down years, have had great starts but are buried in the mid teens in the polls), whereas by merely connecting up with the HE label, UVM helped themselves to some free positive association.
[Q]RatushnyFan Wrote:
Agreed. I wish they were still in the ECAC, would improve the strength of the conference. It will take years for Quinnipiac to develop a legitimate D1 program that can compete in the top half of the league.[/q]
QU is 3-8 with 6 1-goal losses. Considering "top half of the league" only means passing Yale, Princeton, Brown, RPI, Union, and one other team, I'd be surprised if they weren't in the top half at least once in the next two years. They're a good team as we saw a couple weekends ago.
That worked at Dartmouth ::yark::
I just want to note for everyone here that we currently have a record of 4-1 against TUC teams. If we can keep this percentage up and raise our RPI a little bit, we should be a lock for a decent seed in the tourney.
Our TUC record is second best right now to only Wisconsin, I find this very impressive since I dont think we have played to our full potential by any means this year.
[Q]TCHL8842 Wrote:
I just want to note for everyone here that we currently have a record of 4-1 against TUC teams. If we can keep this percentage up and raise our RPI a little bit, we should be a lock for a decent seed in the tourney.
Our TUC record is second best right now to only Wisconsin, I find this very impressive since I dont think we have played to our full potential by any means this year.
Edited 1 times. Last edit at 12/13/05 01:32PM by TCHL8842.[/q]
Though two of those are Niagara, who is barely a TUC. Without that, we drop several spots in the premature PWR.
[Q]DeltaOne81 Wrote:
[Q2]RatushnyFan Wrote:
Agreed. I wish they were still in the ECAC, would improve the strength of the conference. It will take years for Quinnipiac to develop a legitimate D1 program that can compete in the top half of the league.[/Q]
QU is 3-8 with 6 1-goal losses. Considering "top half of the league" only means passing Yale, Princeton, Brown, RPI, Union, and one other team, I'd be surprised if they weren't in the top half at least once in the next two years. They're a good team as we saw a couple weekends ago.[/q]
I think they have 11 ECAC games left and close doesn't count. I think they'll win 2-3 of those games. I think the real QU is the one that we've seen post their tremendous Harvard and Dartmouth victories.......just one opinion. Sure they'll compete with everyone and on occasion outcompete a more talented club (ie first period versus Cornell) and they're well coached. But why should their experience be much different from Union's? Union has had some good coaches (Kevin Sneddon, Stan Moore) but they haven't been able to pull it together - my educated guess would be that the difference is primarily in their ability to recruit versus more established programs.
The reason some people think that they will have an easier time than Union in the long term is that it appears that the Q administration appears to be more supportive than Union's. No sense that .400 is a good season there. They'll have a nice facility eventually and full scholarships as opposed to Achilles and round-about foreign student financial aid.
I agree that Quinnipiac is unlikely to finish near the top of the league this year or maybe soon. But they already have some talent and have are a danger to win any given night. (Though anyone paying attention to Wisconsin's loss last weekend knows the general truth of that.)
[Q]RatushnyFan Wrote:
I think they have 11 ECAC games left and close doesn't count.[/Q]
Agreed, I didn't say this year. It does count for future years though as far as potential goes.
[Q]I think the real QU is the one that we've seen post their tremendous Harvard and Dartmouth victories.......just one opinion. Sure they'll compete with everyone and on occasion outcompete a more talented club (ie first period versus Cornell) and they're well coached. But why should their experience be much different from Union's?[/Q]
One word: committment. Union is a school who's president publically stated that he was thrilled that the team reached 0.500 at some point. The coaches are no doubt good, but the administration has no interest in having a successful team.
Quinnipiac on the other hand has risen from D-II/III to be a perrential power in a "mid-major" conference, outbid several other schools to join the ECAC and won the bid due to proving their committment (Steve Hagwell's term - and I can't be the only one who thought that was a not-so-veiled shot at Union, can I?), is building a brand new (gorgeous via the pictures) athletics center, and regularly buses their fans to "away" home games and tournaments.
Heck, I'm not saying I know what will happen. It is entirely possible that they will struggle for a long time. If I could tell the future I'd have a lot better places to use that skill than eLF ;). But they have a heck of a lot more potential than Union and for good reason.
[Q]DeltaOne81 Wrote:
One word: committment. Union is a school who's president publically stated that he was thrilled that the team reached 0.500 at some point. The coaches are no doubt good, but the administration has no interest in having a successful team.[/q]
Well, once again, I'll throw out the thought that has been in my head since the UVM-replacement search was finalized. Can the league kick out Union and bring in RIT? That's a program that would be a great fit in the ECACHL, IMO. Cornell-RIT and Colgate-RPI would be fine in the travel partner scheme.
What were the circumstances of Army leaving the league? Was it league pressure or Army just not wanting to continue? Union would better please their administration moving back to D-III anyway, I think.
[Q]DeltaOne81 Wrote:
Quinnipiac on the other hand has risen from D-II/III to be a perrential power in a "mid-major" conference, outbid several other schools to join the ECAC and won the bid due to proving their committment (Steve Hagwell's term - and I can't be the only one who thought that was a not-so-veiled shot at Union, can I?), is building a brand new (gorgeous via the pictures) athletics center, and regularly buses their fans to "away" home games and tournaments.[/q]
Which leads to an odd statistic if you look at attendance numbers on USCHO:
190.8% of capacity for "home" games
http://www.uscho.com/stats/attendance.php
[Q]Killer Wrote:
[Q2]DeltaOne81 Wrote:
Quinnipiac on the other hand has risen from D-II/III to be a perrential power in a "mid-major" conference, outbid several other schools to join the ECAC and won the bid due to proving their committment (Steve Hagwell's term - and I can't be the only one who thought that was a not-so-veiled shot at Union, can I?), is building a brand new (gorgeous via the pictures) athletics center, and regularly buses their fans to "away" home games and tournaments.[/Q]
Which leads to an odd statistic if you look at attendance numbers on USCHO:
190.8% of capacity for "home" games
[/q]
as Fred pointed out, this is a result of busing fans to "home" games in other venues. Northford Ice Pavilion has a listed capacity of 1,000 and the average attendance of their "home" games is not surprisingly is 1,907.7 (2297 1043 5049 1027 1015 1016).
Those are nice figures though for an off-campus "home away from home" facility. If Cornell played its games at Cass Park, I wonder how many students would show up.
Quinnipiac "home" attendance:
Northford Ice Pavilion (Capacity: 1000)
Oct 14 - 1016 (102%) RIT
Oct 15 - 1015 (102%) Bentley
Oct 27 - 1027 (103%) AIT
Nov 05 - 1043 (104%) Dartmouth
Average: 1025 (103%)
Hartford Civic Center (Capacity: 15635)
Nov 04 - 5049 (32.3%) Harvard
Ingalls Rink (Capacity: 3486)
Nov 26 - 2297 (65.9%) Princeton
Total Attendance: 11447
Weighted Capacity: 3854
Percent of Weighted Capacity: 49.5%
The Deerticks have 5 more dates at Ingalls and 5 at Northford left on the RS schedule. Net weighted capacity will be 2847. There'll be at least one 3486 remaining on the schedule - I'd be very disappointed if we don't fill the rink in January - and possibly two (Yale game).
[Q]Those are nice figures though for an off-campus "home away from home" facility. If Cornell played its games at Cass Park, I wonder how many students would show up.[/q]Not many, considering that we would almost certainly suck.
[Q]KeithK Wrote:
[Q2]Those are nice figures though for an off-campus "home away from home" facility. If Cornell played its games at Cass Park, I wonder how many students would show up.[/Q]
Not many, considering that we would almost certainly suck.
[/q]
On the other hand, if we played one game there, we could probably fill it to like 10,000% capacity. :-D