http://uscho.com/news/2002/05/16_004435.php
::yark::
Maybe someone in Centerville does have an ounce of good sense, after all.:-D :-D :-D
I have my hotel reservations for LP, but would be happy to go to Albany. For me not alot of difference, but for my daughter, and I suspect others, Albany would be nicer.
We've had this debate before, but I'd say "nice" is what Placid has going for it. "Convenient" is Albany's selling point.
By staying in Saratoga Springs you get "nice" (much nicer than LP, IMHO) as well as "convenient."
It looks like an announcement might be made as early as next week, and we are moving there as early as this season! I love Lake Placid, but I think Albany should be tried. If for no other reason than to convince the local businesses in LP not to mark up their prices several hundred percent when we come to town. If we can get considerable attendance in Albany, and get treated well there, I say we go for it.
One possible reason that it would be good to have the ECAC's in Albany is to lose the "small time...EZAC" image.
The "Big Three" conferences (if you will) all hold their tournaments in arenas:
WCHA - St. Paul Excel Center, Milwaukee Bradley Center etc...
CCHA - Detroit, Joe Loius Arena
HE - Boston, Fleet Center
Having the ECAC tournament in Lake Placid is a wonderful fan experience and I've enjoyed it immensely whenever I've been there. Greg Berge has often made the point that it's great to literally have the whole town dedicated to, and filled with, college hockey fans!
However from a national standpoint, it could be viewed as a small-time conference having its tournament in a quaint barn in a po-dunk town.
If the ECAC is serious about raising its image and competing on the national stage for recruits and recognition, moving the tournament to a city with a bonafide arena might make some sense.
Let the arguments begin about whether the Pepsi Arena and Albany qualify as "city" and "bonafide arena".
(BTW I lived in Albany for nearly 10 years and I do think they qualify).
Eric
"Greg Berge has often made the point that it's great to literally have the whole town dedicated to, and filled with, college hockey fans!"
Dedicated to ripping college hockey fans off would be a more accurate characterization.
I agree in general. But I don't think they discriminate against college hockey fans. They rip everyone off.....skiers, Empire State Games, summer tourists, etc....
After all, Lake Placid is a tourist trap town. Think Lake George with Olympic history.....
Eric
I feel exactly the opposite. The ECAC was getting squeezed out of Boston by Hockey Least, so rather than trying to compete with the other conferences on their terms, they forged their own path, embracing their small-town roots. The ECACs in Lake Placid were something different; moving to Albany would mean trying to be like the big boys and coming up short. The Academic League will never beat the others at their own game; the key is to underline the differences that make the ECAC special, and Lake Placid was one of those.
Al DeFlorio wrote:
QuoteBy staying in Saratoga Springs you get "nice" (much nicer than LP, IMHO) as well as "convenient."
So you'll stay in Saratoga Springs, Greg will stay in a Best Western in Albany, Melissa will stay at home, I'll stay at my Mom's in Kingston, and we'll lose the extra sense of community that Placid's immersion brings.
Can't we all just crash on the floor of Greg's room at the Best Western? Stop being so cheap, Greg. Get a suite.
I'm accepting donations...
Nothing to add to what I and others have pointed out for years about Lake Placid. The ECAC is apparently incapable of taking one step forward (getting rid of the F5) without 6 steps back (this). Hopefully, Lake Placid will sue their asses off.
Well, this being my first visit to Lake Placid, I can certainly say I loved the town. A little more parking and it would have been perfect :-). However, the one plus I can certainly see from Albany... a "standard" ice sheet. It bothers me that the automatic bid is decided on a different ice surface than most of the teams play on all year long - just doesn't feel right.
Now I'm not turning into a Syracuse lax fan and claiming that hockey shouldn't be allowed to be played there (or in the rain for that matter ;-) ) or that it doesn't count if it is, but it would just seem more appropriate to be on a 200x85 sheet.
That said, and practical factors ignore, the perfect solution would be Lake Placid with a 200x85, IMHO.
-Fred
The perfect solution is to play the tourny at Lynah, with season ticket holders retaining their seats. ;-)
well. he IS jobless....
unless his new gig has started. what's the deal greg? when are you moving and to where?
Eric Hoffman wrote:
QuoteLet the arguments begin about whether the Pepsi Arena and Albany qualify as "city" and "bonafide arena".
From the US Census Bureau's Metropolitan Area Population Estimates, found at http://eire.census.gov/popest/archives/metro/ma99-02.txt
Minneapolis-St. Paul: 2,872,109
Detroit: 4,474,614
Boston: 3,297,201
Albany-Schenectady-Troy: 869,474
Which one of these is... ahh... not quite on the same scale? Moving to a city with less than half the population of Newark (1,954,671) doesn't help shed the ""small time...EZAC" image". Sorry, but compared to the other locations, Albany's a second-rate city.
Anyone who cares has likely read them before, but for reference
http://www.spiritone.com/~kepler/hitch/hitch_lake.html
and the first section of this:
http://uscho.com/news/2002/03/20_004307.php
Greg, do you have any odes to Placid on the web, outside of forum archives?
I'd be happy with Albany for the convenience, drive-wise and lodging-wise (family lives about an hour away, could stay with them) and would probably choose Albany over Lake Placid if push came to shove, but there's another problem with Albany from my recollection of going there for NCAA regionals: the area where the arena is located is DEAD on the weekend. Albany is a "get the hell out of here and back to the 'burbs" town (from what I gather) so there is almost no businesses open on the weekend, and this includes restaurants, bars and the like (anyone with more intimate knowledge of Albany please feel free to correct me if I'm off base). It makes for a somewhat creepy environment.
there's jillians down the street from the arena and a couple of empty bars around it but that's about it...
I'd say "creepy" is the perfect adjective for Albany. Especially the area around the arena.
I think the only defense will be to set up our own little "Cornell hockey town" -- preferably at a decent hotel not too far from the rink and near a nice bar -- and hope that some decent movies are out in March.
Drat -- you mean we might NEVER get back to Mudpuddles?
On the bright side (I'm trying here), even though Albany is a cesspool, there must be one decent sports bar there to host a cup-raising. Right?
jillians is a cool sports bar but it is big and perhaps TOO happening (for albany) on a sat nite.
hmmm. was cool with the move until i realized the mudpuddles dilemma. damn! i really wanted to see that place! maybe the change won't occur until the 03-04 season. maybe there's still a chance to see the inside of that dump!
Greg, I have a suggestion. From the "How to win friends and influence people" mode, you might find things alot nicer if you tried to find the good in situations rather than bad-mouthing what you don't like, such as calling Albany a cesspool.
It seems clear from your past statements about Syracuse that you are not fond of midsized upstate NY cities. Well that's OK. But you know, some of us would rather not be on the west coast, seeing as how far away it is from alot of what we enjoy. On the other hand, where you are is beautiful and I'm sure a nice place to live. We chose our way, you chose yours; let's just try and appreciate what everything has to offer, and wherever we end up, just have a good time being there.
Just about any city has some redeeming factors (like Armory Square). That having been said, Albany is a cesspool. This bites.
Maybe we'll just have to party at Melissa's place... :-D
True enough. Even Brownsville has a good Mexican restaurant or two...
Oh for Pete's sake. Sorry, sorry, sorry, and/but take a pill.
If anyone has such a misguided identification with a place that criticizing it offends them, that's their issue. I have no problem whatever with anyone who lives in Albany -- in fact, they have my sympathy. For the record, though I love Oregon, if you want to write that Oregon is a shithole -- or even worse, that it could be in even the smallest measure inferior to Washington -- that's ok by me.
To be holier than thou: Age hates the Islanders and talks trash about them whenever he can. That ticks me off because I'm an Isles fan. But I GET OVER IT. I figure Age is as entitled to his absurd and wrongheaded opinion (which given many of Age's opinions is a very good thing) as I am to my reasonable opinion that the Rangers bite. (I actually kind of like the Rangers too, but that wrecks the parallelism.)
At the same time, if somebody writes that Cornell sucks, them's fightin' words. So, if you feel THAT sort of allegiance to Albany, then I'm sorry to offend.
Now let's have *nobody* ever say *anything* negative about *anything* *ever* *again*, since somebody out there will be offended. ::rolleyes::
i just KNEW that was coming.....
people are more than welcome to use my place as a meeting/ hangout spot - tho i don't know how many people could actually crash here. my place is rather small and there's only 1 bathrroom.
.........and Harvard still sucks.
and I've already claimed my 2 foot by 6 foot spot on the bed/couch/floor.
Although the ECAC, Ivy League, and NCAA would turn its nose up to the idea, perhaps the best place to host the tournament is Atlantic City. They recently renovated Convention Hall, which now hosts the Boardwalk Bullies of the ECHL and seats 10,500. Needless to say, it's easy to get to, and there's plenty to do.
They used to have a great old hockey rink in Atlantic City; my choir sang there during the Bicentennial and it was about 8000 degrees inside.
It would a little inconvenient that it would be farther south than 11 (12?) of the conference members...
Atlantic City is farther south than Princeton. Geographically, it doesn't fit the paradigm that a site needs to be "centrally" located. My folly is that it's not that much more difficult to travel to than any other site and there are plenty of hotels and entertainment.
Why doesn't the ECAC consider the Hartford civic center. It once was an NHL rink, so the "small time" tag wouldn't fit, and Hartford is way nicer than albany, plus, it is centrally isolated, and not officially in anybody's back yard. Yale is the closest, but they never used to be a dominating crowd, even in the Whale.
I suspect that it's because Albany has wanted these types of games, such as the NCAA's, but Hartford has never shown the same interest.
And after reading Al's link about the NCAA tourney, I'm more convinced than ever, Hartford just doesn't want it.
And besides...ya never know when the roof's gonna get blown off. ::nut::
There's another article on USCHO
http://www.uscho.com/news/2002/06/07_004452.php
Still no word from the ECAC, but revealing quotes from the folks in Albany and Lake Placid.
Incidentally, has it occurred to anyone that the ECAC is potentially doubly shafting Placid by dragging their feet on this? I'd have to think that the Lake Placid regional bid would have a better chance if the ECAC move to Albany were already a done deal.
I'm sure it's occured to ORDA counsel. Not that the ECAC ever does anything with foresight, but I couldn't ask for a better case for negotiation in bad faith with a pinch of grievous financial harm. Add contractual malfeasance and... well, I would want to be in Centerville.
God knows what those eejits are thinking...
Perhaps what they're thinking is that 60% of the visitors to this forum think Albany is a better idea.;-)
[Q]CAPE COD, Mass.--The ECAC will host a press conference at 11 a.m. Tuesday, June 18 at the Pepsi Arena in Albany, New York where information pertaining to the future placement of the ECAC Division I Men's Hockey Championship will be announced. [/Q]
Gee, wonder what they're going to announce. ::rolleyes::
I guess this means I will be in New Orleans March 22, watching the ECACs on the dish. (Of course, hearing the announcers blather about what a step forward it is to move to Albany will probably be even more annoying than actually being there in person.)
And I will make my Saratoga Springs hotel reservations as soon as the announcement is made. The LP ripoff is--apparently--at long last over.:-)
But oh how I'll miss those hotdogs at the Olympic arena.
:-P
Are you sure SS will be any less a ripoff? Thats a pretty pricey area also, right?
Unless it's a big Skidmore weekend (parents/family or such) SS should be fairly priced in March. It's a ripoff in July and August during racing season--but even the NHL doesn't extend the season that long.::help::
I suspect I'll get a very nice room in the heart of Broadway for $70 or so with a good continental breakfast and an indoor lap pool--and no problems with minimum stays, late cancellations, etc. The joy of competition.