Listening on the radio at work via NHL.com. Apparently Lenny gets the nod!
Game on Channels 652 and 766 Directv if you have CenterIce
Let's Go Coyotes.
Sweet!
And CenterIce is free the until the 12th!
Go Lenny!
Dominic Moore and Chris Higgins both scored their first NHL goals tonight. Lee Stempniak dressed for St. Louis. EZAC?
now I'm really kicking myself for not going to this game tonight.
Absolute rocket from Robitaille.
Dustin Brown is making his presence known for the Kings as he's on their first PP unit.
Lenny gives up his first NHL goal, Luc Robitaille, on a beautiful top shelf to the very upper corner glove side. No shame in that.
8 saves, 1 GAA in first
First save was Roenick slapper from point on PP.
Coyotes take 1-0 lead on PP goal by Krys Kolanos (BC) about halfway through first.
Dustin Brown getting a lot of time for Kings, including PP
Robitaille picks far top corner for King's goal.
George Parros, Princeton '03 made his NHL debut last night and is again playing tonight.
If I'm not mistaken ... yet another ECAC grad (Princeton) George Parros is dressed for the Kings and getting his name called.
EDIT: and Ari beats me to the punch by less than 60 seconds
[Q]crodger1 Wrote:
Listening on the radio at work via NHL.com Apparently Lenny gets the nod![/q]
For the record, the fact that NHL.com gives free game audio rules. I love that I was able to get mlb.tv for the last month for $14, but having to pay extra for gameday audio wasn't cool.
And do I have to say anything about a certain University?
Unfortunately, I'm not able to get OLN2, or whatever the main NHL deal is. Not getting the main contract with ESPN will not help the league edge closer to mainstream again, in the long run. Not that I'm one to be very excited about the NHL's return... Just biding my time before real collegiate action starts again.
Edit: LA score 2 quick ones on Lenny, 3-1 Kings.
Another goal by the Kings on Lenny. It was put in on a rebound Lenny might or might not have been out of position on (close call...I'll let someone else pass judgment).
Kings now on the PP.
3-1 now. LA with a very explosive offensive and Phoenix has one of the worst bluelines in the league.
And a third....Dmitra got behind the Coyotes D.
[Q]Jacob 03 Wrote:
Another goal by the Kings on Lenny. It was put in on a rebound Lenny might or might not have been out of position on (close call...I'll let someone else pass judgment).
Kings now on the PP. [/q]
Nah, that one wasn't really his fault. Could have done a better job with the rebound, but Demitra really let that shot go. With Phoenix down a man, and Frolov very gifted with the puck, that's tough to blame him on.
I too am listening at work (more working), i clicked on the coyotes audio feed, but apparently, i'm getting the "kings radio network" (even though the nhl audio window, says pheonix). that certainly explains the lack of enthusiasm by the broadcasters when the coyotes score ;-) . anyways, thanks to everyone for posting the descriptions and goal commentaries.
I can't get the oln on my cable system, and the only nhl games i'll see are the st. louis blues when they are on fox sports st.louis. but fortunately, nhl audio is still free. Can't wait until the college hockey season starts. Hope to see some of you at the everblades tourney.
let's go Lenny,
Let's go Red!
3-2 Final. Kings win.
Lenny played fairly solid. A couple dangerous rebounds in the 2nd (one which was put back in). No spectacular saves, but a handful of solid ones.
Hopefully we'll see him again soon.
Plus two of the goals were PP goals. Overall 25 of 28 is pretty decent.
Just talked to my friend who was at the game. He's CU '05. He said he was the only guy in his half of the stadium rooting for Coyotes (even though he's from LA) and screaming "Lets go Red!"
He said that Lenny was looking pretty damn good, and confirmed that the Coyotes blue line was sucking as usual.
I watched the whole game on television and agree that LeNeveu looked very good. I honestly didn't think much of him when he played for Cornell, but it is very hard to deny how technically sound he is. He has a very different style than a lot of the NHL goalies in that he is not at all aggressive, relying on his reflexes and positioning. I'm interested to see how this unique style fares in the NHL
On http://sports.espn.go.com/nhl/players/profile?statsId=3101 it says Lenny's Season GAA is 3.10 (they must've pulled him late in the game last night), but his Career GAA - reflecting the exact same one game - is 3.09. Is this just inconsistent rounding, or is there some legitimate reason for them to be different?
EDIT: NHL.com has it as 3.05. WTF?!
Beeeej
[Q]Beeeej Wrote:
On it says Lenny's Season GAA is 3.10 (they must've pulled him late in the game last night...[/q]
Pulled for an extra attacker with 1:20 to go.
[Q]Al DeFlorio Wrote:
Pulled for an extra attacker with 1:20 to go.[/q]
Which should make his GAA 3.07. Neither ESPN nor NHL.com is right?!
Beeeej
Link to coyotes game review. Half way down-LENEVEU SOLID IN DEBUT
http://www.phoenixcoyotes.com/news/story_details.php?op=details&ID=4315
[Q]Beeeej Wrote:
[Q2]Al DeFlorio Wrote:
Pulled for an extra attacker with 1:20 to go.[/Q]
Which should make his GAA 3.07. Neither ESPN nor NHL.com is right?!
Beeeej[/q]
Maybe he left for a skater on a delayed penalty for a few seconds earlier in the game.
I saw most of the game on FSNWest and agree that he played well. He was a bit out of position for the first goal, but Robataille picked the top corner with a laser of a shot. The last two goals were on the power play. One was off a rebound on a scramble where he had no chance. The last goal had some quick passing from Armstrong to Frolov who one timed his pass to Demietra right in front of the net who then made a nice move to slip it in 5-hole.
LeNevue made a lot of good saves. It was really cool to see him playing with the Great One behind the bench.
[Q]calgARI '07 Wrote:
I honestly didn't think much of him when he played for Cornell, but it is very hard to deny how technically sound he is.[/q]I don't want to start an argument, but...
You say this all the time, Ari, and I'll never understand it. He set the friggin' NCAA GAA record and was widely praised for his solid technical play. Other people saw enough in him to (a) put him on Canada's WJC team and (b) use a high draft pick on him. What could he possibly have done that would have impressed you?
cnnsi.com has it right! ;-)
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/hockey/nhl/players/3101/
In Ari's defense... I played on the same ice with Lenny his freshman year, and remembered wondering why he was a recruit and I was a walk-on. There seemed to be little difference to me. (I whupped him in the rebound game). So when he put up those two big years, I was skeptical as well. That being said, his resume' is unimpeachable. Team Canada WJC (1st NCAA player in like 30 years), NCAA records, All-American, AHL All-Star, 2nd round draft pick...
What I have come to realize is that Dave is one of those rare tenders who has so much control over his body and positioning, that he never has to make any ridiculous saves. He is always in the right place, so he makes it look easy. When you score on him, it's either flat out beating him with a great shot or a defensive breakdown. Rarely will you see him scrambling to stop a rebound though, because he is usually in too good of a position to have to scramble.
The following would explain the different calculations:
The 3.05 calculation uses rounded minutes.
The 3.10 calculation uses truncated minutes.
[Q]jkahn Wrote:
The following would explain the different calculations:
The 3.05 calculation uses rounded minutes.
The 3.10 calculation uses truncated minutes.[/q]
Is there anything that would explain ESPN listing it as 3.09 for Lenny's season but 3.10 for his career?
Beeeej
[Q]Beeeej Wrote:
[Q2]jkahn Wrote:
The following would explain the different calculations:
The 3.05 calculation uses rounded minutes.
The 3.10 calculation uses truncated minutes.[/Q]
Is there anything that would explain ESPN listing it as 3.09 for Lenny's season but 3.10 for his career?[/q]Maybe it is 3.096 and one is programmed to cut it off after two digits and the other rounds up? The inconsistency is still stupid, of course.
[Q]ugarte Wrote:
[Q2]calgARI '07 Wrote:
I honestly didn't think much of him when he played for Cornell, but it is very hard to deny how technically sound he is.[/Q]
I don't want to start an argument, but...
You say this all the time, Ari, and I'll never understand it. He set the friggin' NCAA GAA record and was widely praised for his solid technical play. Other people saw enough in him to (a) put him on Canada's WJC team and (b) use a high draft pick on him. What could he possibly have done that would have impressed you?[/q]
I appreciate all of his accomplishments and it's fine if everyone thinks he was the greatest. I just didn't think he was. That team LeNeveu played on was one of the most dominant I have ever seen at any level. They had the best defensive corps in college hockey and a group of outstanding two-way forwards to go along with it. I just don't think LeNeveu was challenged very much his record-breaking year. Then when he finally did get challenged in the semifinals, he was brutal. There are a lot of great goalies out there, but separates the oustanding goalies from that group is that they elevate their games in huge games. You cannot have bad games in the NCAA's or the season is over. On that note, I love McKee and although he was on an outstanding defensive team last year, he earned the accolades he received. I didn't think LeNeveu deserved the Hobey but I did think McKee did. Even though McKee played pretty well against Minnesota, I think he would want the first goal back. It wasn't the best game he played all season. But I really believe in McKee to ultimately get it done in the big game, far more than I did LeNeveu.
As far as I'm concerned, you said absolutely nothing in that post that distinguishes between LeNeveu and McKee, yet your opinions of the two are quite different.
It's fine if you just have a gut sense that McKee's the real deal and Lenny wasn't, but the way you're trying to explain it paints them both with the same brush.
Beeeej
[Q]Beeeej Wrote:
As far as I'm concerned, you said absolutely nothing in that post that distinguishes between LeNeveu and McKee, yet your opinions of the two are quite different.
It's fine if you just have a gut sense that McKee's the real deal and Lenny wasn't, but the way you're trying to explain it paints them both with the same brush.
Beeeej[/q]
I just try to put things as gently as I can because some people take things personally and get really angry. What I was saying is basically that I credit McKee a lot more with Cornell's 27-5-3 record last year and his amazing individual statistics than I do LeNeveu with Cornell's 30-5-1 record in 02-03 and his amazing individual statistics. More specifically, LeNeveu didn't give Cornell a good opportunity to win against New Hampshire whereas I think McKee always does, even against the very high powered Minnesota team (although even in that game he didn't play at his best).
And again, I think you're just painting yourself into a corner. McKee always gives them a chance to win and if you mess up in the playoffs you're not the real deal, yet although McKee wasn't at his best in the Minnesota game, he's the real deal.
Frankly, I happen to think our offense was flat in the semis at Buffalo. Unlike other seasons, we were scoring 3, 4, 5, 6, sometimes 8 goals all the way up until the BC game in the quarters. When we could only put two in the net all game against New Hampshire (okay, three, but only two from sticks below the crossbar), expecting Lenny to save us all by himself was very unrealistic.
Beeeej
[Q]Beeeej Wrote:
And again, I think you're just painting yourself into a corner. McKee always gives them a chance to win and if you mess up in the playoffs you're not the real deal, yet although McKee wasn't at his best in the Minnesota game, he's the real deal.
Frankly, I happen to think our offense was flat in the semis at Buffalo. Unlike other seasons, we were scoring 3, 4, 5, 6, sometimes 8 goals all the way up until the BC game in the quarters. When we could only put two in the net all game against New Hampshire (okay, three, but only two from sticks below the crossbar), expecting Lenny to save us all by himself was very unrealistic.
Beeeej[/q]
But New Hampshire and Boston College were legit teams and contenders for the National Championship, not standard ECAC competition. There is no way Cornell was going to score that many goals against them. The only way they were going to win was 2-1 or 3-2, harping on their true strength, defense. It's playoff hockey between two powerhouse teams and Cornell wasn't going to win 4-3 or 5-4. Remember, New Hampshire was the second best defensive team in college hockey. Cornell should have won that game 2-1 or 3-2.
McKee wasn't at his best against Minnesota, but played well enough for the team to win. I don't think LeNeveu played well enough for Cornell to beat New Hampshire.
I think that Lenny's 2nd Period performance in the UNH game is proof of that -- 3 shots, 2 goals...ugg.
[Q]calgARI '07 Wrote:
I don't think LeNeveu played well enough for Cornell to beat New Hampshire.[/q]
I've got a bad video replay review or a face-save that says you're wrong ;-)
My main issue here is that it's treated as a fact that a player/team has total control over their performance. Yeah, Lenny had a relatively weak (still pretty good) game at the wrong time. But this whole 'champions play right at the best time' thing is horse-hockey. That is only true in retrospect because the champions, duh, will have played better. The main problem with sports fans is like to take 1 or 2 or 3 performances and make a 'pattern' or some non-existant meaning out of it. There is sooo much randomness envolved in all of this.
You CAN'T take one game in a person's career and hold it against them. Now, had Lenny stayed, and he had repeatedly continued to lose big games, and play lesser in them, maybe you could have a point. But, his sum total of big games that he played was 4 (arguably 5), and he was 3-1 (4-1) in those games. Gee, a 75% success ratio in big games, and you're gonna say he didn't have what it takes?
Btw, I was sitting right off to the side of Lenny and he was completey hung out to dry on at least one of those goals. There are so many more factors.
The fact is that Lenny never looked impressive because as NYI said, he was always in the right place. I remember when I realized just how awesomely effective Lenny was. The @ SLU game in the middle of the winter in 02-03. Because Lenny was gone to the Canadian Jr team and Marr stepped in. Marr played very well and got us two wins in the N. Country so nothing against him, but the difference between someone who was as poised and in control of the puck as Lenny, and the scrambling that Marr needed to do several times, really showed me why Lenny was as good as he was.
I don't think anyone can be faulted for their initial opinion, but in the eyes of a great freshman campaign, a superb sophomore campaign, an appearance in the Frozen Four, an invite to the Canadian Jr team, and now having scouts and Wayne Freakin' Gretzsky give him a shot in the NHL after only 2 AHL seasons (pretty darn quick for a goalie), I think it may be time to admit that the people who know a whole lot more than any of us may just know what they're talking about.
Maybe I should rephrase. I don't think LeNeveu put Cornell in a position to win against UNH. Could they have won that game the way he played? Most definitely, but I don't think he bailed the team out when they were struggling in the first period. Is it necessary the goalie's job to bail them out? No, but for a goaltender of LeNeveu's caliber and reputation, I expected/hoped that he would.
My recollection is that Lenny got hung out to dry on both the second-period goals - a two-on-one and a power play scorcher. Yes, sometimes a goalie will come up huge even in those circumstances, but it was the forwards and blueliners who lost that game, not Lenny. McKee also got hung out to dry on the GWG in Minnesota - yet I had the strange feeling that a strong positional goalie like Lenny might still have made that save. Ironic.
Beeeej
[Q]calgARI '07 Wrote:
Maybe I should rephrase. I don't think LeNeveu put Cornell in a position to win against UNH. Could they have won that game the way he played? Most definitely, but I don't think he bailed the team out when they were struggling in the first period. Is it necessary the goalie's job to bail them out? No, but for a goaltender of LeNeveu's caliber and reputation, I expected/hoped that he would.[/q]
Wow, without reading the rest of this thread, sounds like Debbie-downer.
[Q]Beeeej Wrote:
My recollection is that Lenny got hung out to dry on both the second-period goals - a two-on-one and a power play scorcher. Yes, sometimes a goalie will come up huge even in those circumstances, but it was the forwards and blueliners who lost that game, not Lenny. McKee also got hung out to dry on the GWG in Minnesota - yet I had the strange feeling that a strong positional goalie like Lenny might still have made that save. Ironic.
Beeeej[/q]
Guess we'll just have to agree to disagree on this one although I certainly do agree that the team lost that game together. My point is just that if LeNeveu was the best player in college hockey and so amazing, he would have taken the team on his shoulders and come up with some big saves. But that's neither here nor there. Bottom line is that they didn't win that game and that they didn't beat Minnesota. Hopefully we'll see a different outcome this season.
[Q]calgARI '07 Wrote:
Guess we'll just have to agree to disagree on this one[/q]
Will not!!
Kidding, naturally.
Let's go win a national championship so we don't have to disagree about this stuff anymore.
Beeeej
[Q]Beeeej Wrote:
[Q2]calgARI '07 Wrote:
Guess we'll just have to agree to disagree on this one[/Q]
Will not!!
Kidding, naturally.
Let's go win a national championship so we don't have to disagree about this stuff anymore.
Beeeej[/q]
I like that idea.
[Q]calgARI '07 Wrote:
[Q2]Beeeej Wrote:
As far as I'm concerned, you said absolutely nothing in that post that distinguishes between LeNeveu and McKee, yet your opinions of the two are quite different.
It's fine if you just have a gut sense that McKee's the real deal and Lenny wasn't, but the way you're trying to explain it paints them both with the same brush.
Beeeej[/Q]
I just try to put things as gently as I can because some people take things personally and get really angry. What I was saying is basically that I credit McKee a lot more with Cornell's 27-5-3 record last year and his amazing individual statistics than I do LeNeveu with Cornell's 30-5-1 record in 02-03 and his amazing individual statistics. More specifically, LeNeveu didn't give Cornell a good opportunity to win against New Hampshire whereas I think McKee always does, even against the very high powered Minnesota team (although even in that game he didn't play at his best).[/q]
You're not really making the right comparison, though. Lenny did play well enough for us to beat BC, holding them to one goal in over four periods, and that one kicked in. We don't know if McKee would have done better against North Dakota than Lenny did against UNH, since we never got to that game.
pretty cool to be able to add lenny to my fantasy hockey team if i wanted to do so :)
[Q]DeltaOne81 Wrote:
[Q2]calgARI '07 Wrote:
I don't think LeNeveu played well enough for Cornell to beat New Hampshire.[/Q]
I've got a bad video replay review or a face-save that says you're wrong
My main issue here is that it's treated as a fact that a player/team has total control over their performance. Yeah, Lenny had a relatively weak (still pretty good) game at the wrong time. But this whole 'champions play right at the best time' thing is horse-hockey. That is only true in retrospect because the champions, duh, will have played better. The main problem with sports fans is like to take 1 or 2 or 3 performances and make a 'pattern' or some non-existant meaning out of it. There is sooo much randomness envolved in all of this.
[/q]
Texas Sharp Shooter Fallacy?
I enjoyed your post, Fred, and with the Yankees elimination game buzzing in the background, my brain put your post and baseball together to create this untimely reply.
I wanted to add that sports fans should consider reading Moneyball (I'm guessing most baseball fans have read it by now). While the frame of the book is baseball and the Oakland A's, the larger story is about market inefficiencies--in this case, finding baseball players that, because of bias (clutch play, muscle tone, personality, etc.) or poor statistical analysis, others have overlooked. It is a great read that transcends baseball.