This year’s Princeton game feels like it's being played in Bizarro World. We're the hunted; they're the hunters. Even for those of us schooled in fatter times, it feels… unnatural.
Hard to know what to make of the Tigers. Despite their youth, they played some of the best teams in the nation close early in the season (Tambroni was correct when he stated in this morning's Sun that any Ivy team, Cornell included, would likely have a similar record with Princeton's brutal early schedule). Yet they also have been choking dogs against some mediocre teams. They're even making the occasional mental mistake. Go figure.
The bad news is they seem to be gaining some confidence, scoring double-digit goals against two consecutive opponents for the first time since April 2004. And they're playing for their lives. Princeton cannot get into the tournament without the Ivy AQ.
The conventional preseason wisdom about Princeton -- that their offense would suffer without Ryan Boyle around to give their best shooters the rock -- turned out to be true. The productivity of marksmen like Doneger (one of Princeton's few seniors) has declined. Most of their offense flows through sophomore attackman Scott Sowanick, who has been taking shifts as a midfielder as Tierney experiments with ways to create better shots. Princeton's best player is freshman defenseman Dan Cocoziello from New Jersey HS lax powerhouse Delbarton; look for him wearing #1 -- he's a joy to watch. Cocoziello was the most coveted recruit in the nation, and he might already be one of the best defenseman in the Ivy League. Tierney has started three different goalies this season. Last year's primary starter, Dave Law, was thrown to the wolves in the first few games. Then senior Matt Larkin had a shot. Then they tried freshman Alex Hewit, Coco's bud from Delbarton, for a spell. Now they seem to be back with Law, who has given up only four goals in the last two games.
I don't buy the argument that Cornell should run, run, run against the Tigers. Part of the reason that Cornell got away with playing an aggressive transition game (with the associated high turnover rate) in the middle of the season is due to the fact that their opponents, such as Harvard and Syracuse, were undisciplined turnover machines themselves. They would cough up the ball or get nailed for a violation on the clear within seconds of getting the ball from Cornell. Although this Princeton team doesn’t protect the ball as well as they usually do, you can't count on them to do stupid stuff. Cornell needs to be highly selective with their fast-break opportunities. Besides, the weather may conspire against the kinds of 30-yard feeds from long sticks that created a bunch of goals in the Carrier Dome.
You have to like Cornell's chances, given their experience. Cornell's middies, who know how to play in the rain, are likely to make Princeton's young midfielders feel like they have their clothes on sideways.
Can't wait. Bring it on.
Thanks for the preview! Looking forward to "watching" the game on this thread...
LGR!
Is it today? Or tomorrow?
[Q]Jordan 04 Wrote:
Is it today? Or tomorrow?[/q]
tomorrow
Great pregame post, but I do have to say that when I saw PU in their TV game against Syracuse, they were very sloppy with the ball (both teams were). I'm sure that has improved as they have played more (it was their fourth game), but they sure did not look good (note that they only lost to SU by 2 goals).
Link just posted on the Cornell athletics site for streaming video broadcast of the Princeton game. :-)
[Q]Al DeFlorio Wrote: Link just posted on the Cornell athletics site for streaming video broadcast of the Princeton game. [/q]
The video broadcast link was just posted on the laxpower forum. Groan. Look out -- heavy usage ahead.
LGR!:-D
[Q]Hillel Hoffmann Wrote:
[Q2]Al DeFlorio Wrote: Link just posted on the Cornell athletics site for streaming video broadcast of the Princeton game. [/Q]
The video broadcast link was just posted on the laxpower forum. Groan. Look out -- heavy usage ahead.[/q]
remember, it's still limited to 50 users at a time so be on early if you want to watch.
It's 12:10pm, and I can't log on, so I guess it's already full. Oh well. I'm just trying to figure out how UNC @ 'Gate was picked for today's CSTV lax game over the Cornell/Princeton game, especially given the Cornell @ Princeton game last year. If they were willing and able to get cameras and crew to Hamilton, Ithaca would have been just as easy.
BTW, at 12:30pm, Lacrosse Weekly will be on CSTV. I haven't caught any episodes this season, but it is possible that the Syracuse/Cornell game didn't make the show last week and could appear today. (That's pure speculation on my part, though.)
The game's at 1 today, so it's not available yet... should be in a few minutes
Brown leading Dartmouth 6-4 late first half
Lacrosse Weekly did indeed show the Syracuse/Cornell highlights. It'll air again tonight at midnight.
EDIT: and Cornell/Dartmouth highlights.
Video is just giving me "an error occurred" - anyone else?
For now I pulled up the audio. I'm at my parents and I'm not convinced the bandwidth here will support the video anyway, but I'd like to try. If the video isn't working for anyone, I'll give updates until things are straightened out.
REDD!! 1-0 Cornell early, with possession again
Redd 1-0
Greenhalgh!! 2-0 Red, still early of course, about 3 minutes in
NEE! 3-0! Although I have no doubt this game will be closer than it sounds so far. I'm not sure if the Tigers have had a possession yet... TO Princeton
[Q]DeltaOne81 Wrote:
NEE! 3-0! Although I have no doubt this game will be closer than it sounds so far. I'm not sure if the Tigers have had a possession yet... TO Princeton[/q]
Princeton announcer says they haven't had the ball--except maybe the pass to Greenhalgh may have hit a Tiger helmet.
Greenhalgh to Boulukos! 4-0 Red
Princeton scores on their second shot after the first hit the post, Princeton ball again
4-1 Cornell
But Cornell answers back, Justin Redd! 5-1 Cornell
btw, is this useful for anyone, or is everyone listening somewhere on their own?
Princeton announcer saying someone on Princeton has to start playing defense. New sieve for Princeton.
And new goal by Greenhalgh :) ... 6-1 Cornell
agree, don't think Princeton has stopped a shot yet, maybe one. and Cornell seems to be walkingin at will
I'll stop doing updates so often cause it kinda seems like i'm only entertaining myself for now ;)
Greenhalgh 6-1; Princeton webcast must be delayed nearly a minute--goal was posted on LaxPower long before I heard it
Is there free audio somewhere? I'm still waiting for Godot...er, the video feed.
EDIT: Ah, there is evidently Princeton audio somewhere. Now looking.
EDIT^2: See http://goprincetontigers.collegesports.com/multimedia/prin-multimedia.html
Kyle
Godot has a greater likelihood. Princeton athletics site has a link under "multimedia."
Duke crushing Army 12-6
Dartmouth and Brown tied at 8 with 12 to go
Nee 7-1
Greenhalgh 8-1
Dartmouth-Brown tied at 9 under 5 to go
8-1 Cornell, Greenhalgh
and the Cornell announcers are about an hour and a half behind the Dartmouth/Brown game, I see 9-8 Brown with 6 minutes left
[Q]DeltaOne81 Wrote:
8-1 Cornell, Greenhalgh
and the Cornell announcers are about an hour and a half behind the Dartmouth/Brown game, I see 9-8 Brown with 6 minutes left[/q]
Now 9-9
Post deleted due to author's illiteracy.
10-9 Dartmouth with 3:46 left
I'd say, "This is sad"... but I've seen teams come back from much bigger deficits. So, I'll just say, "Let's go Red!"
Kyle
Should I be pissed that I'm unable to watch this game??? :-(
10-2 half
Dartmouth 11-9 last minute of game; now final!
Duke 19-8 over Army late 4th; yikes!
[Q]Al DeFlorio Wrote:
Should I be pissed that I'm unable to watch this game???
10-2 half
Dartmouth 11-9 last minute of game[/q]
Anybody here one of the lucky 50 who get to watch?
I don't think it has anything to do with 50. We're all watched before, or at least 95% of us, with no problem. I suppose it's possible, but I'd put 10:1 odds on the fact the service just broke today.
Man, I ran out to Quiznos and back to get here in time for the 1pm video... and nothing. I swear, the tech-heads in the Athletic Dept are seriously incompetent. It's disgraceful. Aren't there any fans in the Engineering school who can help pull their heads out of their asses?
Kyle
so i don't think coach tierney got the memo that Kevin Nee (6,0) can shoot ::uhoh::
12-2 Red 9:46 to go in the 3rd
[Q]krose Wrote:
I swear, the tech-heads in the Athletic Dept are seriously incompetent. It's disgraceful. Aren't there any fans in the Engineering school who can help pull their heads out of their asses?
Kyle[/q]
The depth that their heads are in their asses, you're probably better off asking the Med school. Or Vet for that matter (there's a "horse's ass" pun in there somewhere).
or maybe just some really large exam gloves ::yark::
14-2.
Last Cornell score with goalie out of position leaving an empty net.
Now 15-2 with 2:03 left in 3rd qtr
14-2 Cornell... and the audio dies...
Princeton's free audio working just fine. B-]
in other games:
#2 Duke 19
#7 Army 9 F
#11 Dartmouth 11
#18 Brown 9 F
#10 Maryland 8
#15Fairfield 6 late 3rd
#1 JHU 6
#5 Navy 4 mid 3rd
#9 UMass 9
#3 G'town 9 late 3rd
Cornell up 16-3 with 13:37 left in the 4th qtr.
Nee scores either his 6th or 7th of the game.
Pep band tired.....18+ playings of GMRT Davey!:-)
that was his 7th of the day :-D
here's the live stats link: http://cornellbigred.collegesports.com/livestats/m-lacros/xlive.htm
Score now? (For those of us whose audio died. ::rolleyes:: )
Navy leading Hopkins 7-6 late 3rd
[Q]jmh30 Wrote:
Score now? (For those of us whose audio died. )[/q]
17-3
Princeton has 16 shots; Nee has 13.
i would pay soooo much money to stand next to bill tierney and hear what he's bitching now about as his team is getting walked all over Schoellkopf :-D ::laugh:: :-D
make that 17-4 Trombino (2,0) w/ 10:22 to go
I'm now getting video.
[Q]Al DeFlorio Wrote:
I'm now getting video.[/q]
ditto:-)
that was a v. weak ill. body check call ... sympathy calls here we come
UMass nips Georgetown by 1
Hop and Navy tied at 7 with 5:00 to go
it's a final 17-4 Big Red! time for the tigers to make some tee times b/c their season just ended :-D
Am I correct in saying that we now have the AQ solidified? Brown got its second loss, and we beat dartmouth princeton and yale(not sure which of those still only have 1 loss).
We have the AQ. Dartmouth has 1 loss. Everybody else has at least 2.
[Q]Jacob '06 Wrote:
Am I correct in saying that we now have the AQ solidified? Brown got its second loss, and we beat dartmouth princeton and yale(not sure which of those still only have 1 loss).[/q]
Yes, we have the AQ. If Brown beats us and Dartmouth wins out, we tie Dartmouth for the title but get the AQ.
Navy leads Hopkins by one in the last minute at Homewood. Timeout Hopkins.
Hop ties it with :21 to go.
Hop wins it in OT. Questionable call gave 'em the ball after a Navy shot.
Woohoo, I can't get bashed for my woofing after the dartmouth game :-)
#1 Hopkins 9
#5 Navy 8 F
[Q]ben03 Wrote:
it's a final 17-4 Big Red! time for the tigers to make some tee times b/c their season just ended[/q]First a sweep in hoops and now a whipping in Lax. Did Princeton change their admission index?
[Q]ugarte Wrote:
[Q2]ben03 Wrote:
it's a final 17-4 Big Red! time for the tigers to make some tee times b/c their season just ended[/Q]
First a sweep in hoops and now a whipping in Lax. Did Princeton change their admission index?[/q]
By my count, the win brings Cornell to 9-1-1 against Princeton this academic year in all men's sports with head-to-head contests. Cornell won both matchups over the Tigers in hoops and hockey and their sole matchup this year in football, sprint football, squash, wrestling and lacrosse. Cornell tied Princeton in soccer and suffered a loss in swimming. Cornell and Princeton still have three more head-to-heads (tomorrow in tennis and a DH next weekend in baseball) but I'd say we owned Princeton this year.
wow! what a result. crushing princeton. pretty sweet. LGR! time to watch some playoff lacrosse at hsbc arena :)
[Q]jy3 Wrote:
wow! what a result. crushing princeton. pretty sweet. LGR! time to watch some playoff lacrosse at hsbc arena[/q]
The rain stopped early, the sun actually came out at the end of the game, there was a big (by recent standards) crowd on hand, the pep band was in fine form, Cornell outplayed PU in every way, and even PU coach Bill Tierney gave up whining at the refs (he started off pre-game, complaining about the pep band playing the "Mickey Mouse Club" theme as his team came on to the field and was barking, as usual, throughout the first half). What a day!
If you weren't there or didn't see the webcast, Cornell was completely dominating. You name the positive stat, and Cornell won it. It was a mis-match.
I have no idea if the team knew that today is St. George's Day (thanks to Coach Moran for pointing that out), but either way, it was especially nice that today they could play as nearly perfect a game as a Cornell lacrosse team has in a long, long time.
[Q]peterg Wrote:
PU coach Bill Tierney gave up whining at the refs (he started off pre-game, complaining about the pep band playing the "Mickey Mouse Club" theme as his team came on to the field and was barking, as usual, throughout the first half).
[/q]
He's definitely not a fan of the Pep Band. Last year, he instructed the Princeton Field Staff to "keep [the band] as far away from us as possible." :-D
"he" is an asshole and anything that makes him mad is a good thing! keep up the good work guys;-)
[q] He's definitely not a fan of the Pep Band. Last year, he instructed the Princeton Field Staff to "keep [the band] as far away from us as possible." [/q]
Way to go!!
Fred, I wasn't following your posts during the game but I greatly appreciate the play by play after the fact. So no need to worry that you're posting to the ether!
Ivy title and NCAA bid! Way to go laxers!
[Q]
sd Wrote: Replica Handbags and Replica Louis Vuitton
[/q]
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/2/2b/180px-C-cbg.jpg)
"Worst spammer ever."
(Jeez, I mean, you couldn't even be bothered to get your link to work?)
Here: http://www.syracuse.com/localcolleges/poststandard/index.ssf?/base/sports-0/1114331781155070.xml&coll=1
Trenton Times web site has a headline ("Cornell romps Princeton") but the article is about P's women's lax team's loss to Dartmouth.
So with only a few weeks left in the lacrosse season here's what the NCAA's might look like after yesterdays results:
Automatic Qualifiers:*
Cornell (Ivy AQ)
Albany/Stony Brook (America East AQ)
Army/Navy (Patriot AQ)
Denver/Fairfield (Great Western AQ)
Manhattan/Mount St. Mary’s (MAAC AQ)
Towson/Delaware (Colonial AQ)
At-large In:
JHU
Duke
UVA
Georgetown
At-large Likely:
Army/Navy
Syracuse
Dartmouth
Maryland
UMass
At-large long-shot fighting for the last spot
Bucknell
Penn State
Denver/Fairfield
Towson/Delaware
Albany/Stony Brook
Seeded something like this:
1. JHU
2. Duke
3. UVA
4. Cornell*
5. Georgetown
6. Navy*
7. Syracuse
8. Army
9. Maryland
10. UMass
11. Dartmouth
12. Towson/Delaware*
13. Albany/Stony Brook*
14. Denver/Fairfield*
15. Bucknell/Penn State et al
16.Manhattan/Mount St. Mary’s*
Hillel, Al, Fred please feel free to correct any errors you see as my brain isn't up to speed ... b/c it's sunday morning ::nut::
[Q]ben03 Wrote:
So with only a few weeks left in the lacrosse season here's what the NCAA's might look like after yesterdays results:
Automatic Qualifiers:*
Cornell (Ivy AQ)
Albany/Stony Brook (America East AQ)
Army/Navy (Patriot AQ)
Denver/Fairfield (Great Western AQ)
Manhattan/Mount St. Mary’s (MAAC AQ)
Towson/Delaware (Colonial AQ)
At-large In:
JHU
Duke
UVA
Georgetown
At-large Likely:
Army/Navy
Syracuse
Dartmouth
Maryland
UMass
At-large long-shot fighting for the last spot
Bucknell
Penn State
Denver/Fairfield
Towson/Delaware
Albany/Stony Brook
Seeded something like this:
1. JHU
2. Duke
3. UVA
4. Cornell*
5. Georgetown
6. Navy*
7. Syracuse
8. Army
9. Maryland
10. UMass
11. Dartmouth
12. Towson/Delaware*
13. Albany/Stony Brook*
14. Denver/Fairfield*
15. Bucknell/Penn State et al
16.Manhattan/Mount St. Mary’s*
Hillel, Al, Fred please feel free to correct any errors you see as my brain isn't up to speed ... b/c it's sunday morning[/q]
So in that case one of JHU, Duke, or UVA would be forced to go "north" to Princeton for the quarter-finals, right?
[Q]Tub(a) Wrote:
So in that case one of JHU, Duke, or UVA would be forced to go "north" to Princeton for the quarter-finals, right?[/q]
the eight first round games are played at the higher seeds home site, may 14th and 15th. the following weekend of May 20-21 doubeheaders will be played at @ JHU and Princeton respectively. i'm not exactly sure on the seeding procedures, assuming the committee sticks to a traditional 1-16 bracket (and have shown no reason they wouldn't) ... yes, either JHU, Duke, UVA would in fact be forced to travel north to Princeton assuming of course they make it through the first round. :-)
[Q]ben03 Wrote:
[Q2]Tub(a) Wrote:
So in that case one of JHU, Duke, or UVA would be forced to go "north" to Princeton for the quarter-finals, right?[/Q]
the eight first round games are played at the higher seeds home site, may 14th and 15th. the following weekend of May 20-21 doubeheaders will be played at @ JHU and Princeton respectively. i'm not exactly sure on the seeding procedures, assuming the committee sticks to a traditional 1-16 bracket (and have shown no reason they wouldn't) ... yes, either JHU, Duke, UVA would in fact be forced to travel north to Princeton assuming of course they make it through the first round.[/q]
Seems unlikely that the NCAA will send JHU north when they are a quarterfinal host.
[Q]peterg Wrote:
[Q2]ben03 Wrote:
[Q2]Tub(a) Wrote:
So in that case one of JHU, Duke, or UVA would be forced to go "north" to Princeton for the quarter-finals, right?[/Q]
the eight first round games are played at the higher seeds home site, may 14th and 15th. the following weekend of May 20-21 doubeheaders will be played at @ JHU and Princeton respectively. i'm not exactly sure on the seeding procedures, assuming the committee sticks to a traditional 1-16 bracket (and have shown no reason they wouldn't) ... yes, either JHU, Duke, UVA would in fact be forced to travel north to Princeton assuming of course they make it through the first round.[/Q]
Seems unlikely that the NCAA will send JHU north when they are a quarterfinal host. [/q]
I'm all but certain Hop would play their QF at Homewood, and I suspect they'll slot Navy there as well. If Navy should get a #4 seed, I think they'd slot both UVA and Duke for Princeton's QFs.
My recollection is that the committee doesn't "seed" 9-16 according to regular-season performance but selects first-round pairings based on some mix of geography and something like "interesting matchups." In particular, they don't seem to have any desire to avoid repeats of regular season games (e.g., Cornell-Hobart in the first round last year). I don't think you'd see an Albany going to Duke or UVA for the first round, or a Towson to UMass or Syracuse.
Awesome domination by Cornell. It could have been 25-4 or 25-3 (or if some shots went Princeton's way, 17-7). (It probably couldn't have been 25 since Princeton stopped at 19 againt Butler recently and there was a big deal made of the Tierney Humanitarian rule of scoring no more than 19 goals against the halt and lame. Heh, heh, shoe was on the other foot this game.)
Tambroni ran though a lot of players. In the West Stands, I worried for the health of the Big Red Pep Band having to play Davy so many times, especially in the second half when the sun came out and it started to get warm. That was a lot of trumpet-blowing. By the second half, all of us carrying two layers of Underarmor and rain gear started to perspire heavily. So much for AccuWeather's prediction of 8/10 inch of rain Saturday. All you really needed was a towel to wipe down the damp stadium seats.
Goaltending - skill or luck or both - was outstanding for Cornell. Every phase was great. Okay, Cornell threw away a couple passes and slowed up on a couple of fast breaks when they could maybe have gone straight to the cage. That's about it.
Huge turnout by the players' families and friends as well as students and what looked like some curious about-to-attend-Cornell HS seniors. Great to see Richie Moran there and cheering. Ned put the map on the wall, Richie put Cornell on the map (well, Ned did too), and even when RM was moved on from his position, he's still an incredible Cornell booster.
Not to kick the crutch from under a cripple but Princeton's road uniforms don't look that good. White with a little black and orange is okay, but black that sort of looks Brown, not the same thing.
Wish every game went this well.
Just our luck to be seeded at Hopkins and JHU creating an Olympic width field for us.
[Q]billhoward Wrote:
Just our luck to be seeded at Hopkins and JHU creating an Olympic width field for us. [/q]
They could keep us home and we could see SU again.
[Q]billhoward Wrote:
Not to kick the crutch from under a cripple but Princeton's road uniforms don't look that good. White with a little black and orange is okay, but black that sort of looks Brown, not the same thing.
[/q]
Watched a bit of the Princeton-Dartmouth women's game on the tube, and the women wear the same ugly unis.
[Q]peterg Wrote:
[Q2]billhoward Wrote:
Just our luck to be seeded at Hopkins and JHU creating an Olympic width field for us. [/Q]
They could keep us home and we could see SU again.[/q]
Army, Dartmouth, and Albany are other possibilities. Or Bucknell if they win the Patriot League.
Barring the unforeseen, Cornell, UMass, and Syracuse are the "north's" best bets for 1-8 seeds. UMass-Syracuse winner (game's at UMass this Saturday) should be a cinch.
Just once it would be nice to see UMass go all the way (so long as it's not at Cornell's expense). That would really tick off the Johnny Red schools who think they invented and own the sport. He's been gone for a decade, but Dick Garber (now Greg Cannella) did a heck of lot for the sport and should have been rewarded with something more than a bunch of almost-did-it seasons. Come to think of it, the farthest north any NCAA champion has been is the Finger Lakes, at least since the days of the NCAA tournament (1971) and before then it was pretty much a round robin of voters who choose Hopkins or Maryland, Maryland or Hopkins, maybe Navy or NC once in a while to spice things up.
The lax game today was awsome. I have been mildly interested in Lax for the last few years, but today I realized that it is the next best thing to Hockey. Which then brings the question... what are we going to do when Lax season ends? no hockey, no lax...
[Q]Dpperk29 Wrote:
The lax game today was awsome. I have been mildly interested in Lax for the last few years, but today I realized that it is the next best thing to Hockey. Which then brings the question... what are we going to do when Lax season ends? no hockey, no lax...[/q]
Make fun of baseball fans.
I saw this link on Laxpower. I apologize if the link doesn't click through correctly. Please cut and paste if you have to because this is a must read. What an amazing bunch of guys. They make you incredibly proud to be Red fans.
http://www.insidelacrosse.com/page.cfm?pagerid=2&news=fdetail&storyid=80845
I saw this link on Laxpower. I apologize if the link doesn't click through correctly. Please cut and paste if you have to because this is a must read. What an amazing bunch of guys. They make you incredibly proud to be Red fans.
www.insidelacrosse.com/page.cfm?pagerid=2&news=fdetail&storyid=80845
[Q]Section A Banshee Wrote:
[Q2]Dpperk29 Wrote:
The lax game today was awsome. I have been mildly interested in Lax for the last few years, but today I realized that it is the next best thing to Hockey. Which then brings the question... what are we going to do when Lax season ends? no hockey, no lax...[/Q]
Make fun of baseball fans.[/q]
We have a winner! ::woot::
All I can say is "Wow". Thank you for posting that insightful and inspirational article. I do not know much about lacrosse and have only followed Cornell because it is my alma mater. Now I will follow and root for them for much deeper reasons.
[Q]Section A Banshee Wrote:
[Q2]Dpperk29 Wrote:
The lax game today was awsome. I have been mildly interested in Lax for the last few years, but today I realized that it is the next best thing to Hockey. Which then brings the question... what are we going to do when Lax season ends? no hockey, no lax...[/Q]
Make fun of baseball fans.[/q]
You know, those crazy people whose league actually exists right now. ::screwy::
[Q]billhoward Wrote:
That would really tick off the Johnny Red schools who think they invented and own the sport. [/q]
Presumably you mean Johnnie Reb i.e., Southern.
Is this really happening?
I remember a game against Princeton back in 1991. The Cornell lacrosse program was clearly beginning to decline, but they entered the game 8-3. The Tigers had been knocking on the door for a few years, finishing in the top half of the Ivy League in consecutive seasons for the first time in a bazillion years. It was Bill Tierney's fifth year -- he was playing with his own guys.
Princeton crushed Cornell 12-2 at Schoellkopf in a game that was much more of a blowout than suggested by the score. I still consider it the most horrifying home lacrosse game I've ever seen. The Tigers dominated time of possession. They had more juice, more skills, more discipline, more depth and a lot more desire. And all of Princeton's players were so young: Morrow, Bacigalupo, Moe. No fair! You had this feeling that the stars were shifting to form new constellations. Put on your quetzal feathers, wake up the kids and bring them to the temple steps for some ritual bloodletting: There's a new king up there on the pyramid.
Fast forward to this Saturday. There's Cornell dominating time of possession. Cornell with more juice, more skills, more discipline, more depth and a lot more desire. And there's Cornell with the best recruiting class they've had in a long, long time waiting in the wings and there's--
[Sound of needle pulled across vinyl tracks]
Oops. I forgot. Princeton's last two recruiting classes were even better. And half our best players are seniors.
OK, whatever. But is this season not like a dream? Or at least like 1987 or something.
[Q]peterg Wrote: when I saw PU in their TV game against Syracuse, they were very sloppy with the ball (both teams were). [/q]
Good call, Peter. You were so right. Was that really Princeton?
This Cornell team is so good and so deserving. I hope people will turn out in the playoffs to make up for the awful attendance during the regular season. (Saturday's game was the first home game with a crowd of more than 500 people.)
Ben's list of playoff hopefuls was pretty solid, although it's premature to predict seeding. I guess it's worth thinking about teams that Cornell might meet. One thing has changed: Cornell should no longer fear teams with great FO men. Cornell's riding is so scary good that it really doesn't matter much. Even if Cornell gets a favorable bracket, there are two teams out there in the "north" subset that scare the bijinkies outta me: Massachusetts and Albany.
Actually what we do around here is count the days till NFL training camp opens. ::rolleyes::
Baseball? What's that?
Inside Lacrosse Media Poll
April 25, 2005
1. Johns Hopkins (10-0) 400 points (16 first-place votes)
2. Duke (13-1) 384
3. Virginia (9-2) 359
4. Navy (9-3) 347
5. Cornell (8-2) 337
6. Georgetown (8-3) 311
7. Syracuse (7-4) 306
8. Massachusetts (9-2) 300
9. Maryland (6-5) 259
10. Army (10-3) 257
11. Dartmouth (7-3) 233
12. Towson (9-3) 225
13. Bucknell (8-4) 204
14. Denver (8-4) 179
15. Albany (8-4) 170
16. Notre Dame (6-4) 132
17. Fairfield (9-3) 130
18. Stony Brook (9-3) 109
19. Delaware (9-4) 90
20. Brown (5-4) 89
Others receiving votes: Penn State 68, Yale 68, Hofstra 66, North Carolina 28,
Hobart, 27, Villanova 12, Harvard 5, UMBC 3, Bellarmine 1, Princeton 1.
Moving in: Stony Brook, Delaware
Dropping out: Hofstra (#18), Yale (#14)
Poll drawn from a number of "regulars" on the LaxPower forum--with individual comments on the ranked teams. These guys all follow the game closely, and I find their thoughts interesting (although one thinks Saturday's game was played at Princeton).
http://www.laxpower.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=6798
Just a random question from someone who doesn't know the lax world. Is there a particular reason why colege lacrosse still has independants (4, including Johns Hopkins and Syracuse) while everyone seems to be affiliated in other sports. In hockey all of the Indys joined conferences in the 90s (or was it the 80s?). I suppose the "star power" of Johns Hopkins and Syracuse might help them stay independant, but it's still interesting to me.
(I guess this was more of a comment/observation than a question...)
[Q]KeithK Wrote:
Just a random question from someone who doesn't know the lax world. Is there a particular reason why colege lacrosse still has independants (4, including Johns Hopkins and Syracuse) while everyone seems to be affiliated in other sports.[/q]
Flexibility in scheduling, perhaps. Hopkins and Syracuse both play an aggressive schedule of top teams, and this would be harder to do if they were constrained by a league's scheduling requirements (see our many discussions about college hockey scheduling constraints).
Hopkins does play all four ACC lacrosse teams, so I suppose that would be a logical fit, but, remember, they are a Division III school in all other sports. And, the ACC has a post-season tournament which could mean two more games against the same schools faced in the regular season.
[Q]Hillel Hoffmann Wrote:
Oops. I forgot. Princeton's last two recruiting classes were even better. And half our best players are seniors.[/q]
I know that the word has been that Princeton has great sophomore and freshman classes and that the junior and senior classes were "poor recruiting years". I know that Cornell is a more experienced, senior dominated team. I would, however, have thought that all those great sophomores and freshmen for Princeton would have been able to at least maintain possession of the ball when they did get it or at least put up a semblance of competition. I would have thought that by game ten certainly the sophomores would be showing their world class quality. Maybe, just maybe, they really aren't as good as people have said they are.
In any event, for 2005 the King is dead. Long live the (Big Red) King!
[Q]peterg Wrote: I know that the word has been that Princeton has great sophomore and freshman classes and that the junior and senior classes were "poor recruiting years"... [/q]
Although Princeton's current freshman and sophomore classes are superb, the class that really scares me is their incoming class (next year's freshmen). But even if you rule them out and just focus on Princeton's current underclassmen, I think it's fair to say that the Tigers' frosh and sophs are light years ahead of Cornell's current underclassmen.
The hockey conferences have all been formed just for hockey and don't really have any affiliation with existing conferences (now that the ECACHL is not really with the ECAC).
In lax, several of the conferences are existing conferences. Therefore, it's hard for an independent, especially a D-III playing up, to get into a conference if they're not a member for other sports.
Not to mention that two of those four have traditionally been good enough to qualify at large without the inconvenience of a tournament.
USILA Geico/STX Coaches Poll: Divison I (April 25)
No. Name Record (1st) Points/Previous
1 Johns Hopkins 10-0(10) 200 1
2 Duke 13-1 190 2
3 Virginia 9-2 172 4
4 Cornell 8-2 164 6
5 Navy 9-3 163 5
6 Georgetown 8-3 150 3
7 Syracuse 7-4 137 T7
8 Massachusetts 9-2 133 9
9 Army 10-3 119 T7
10 Maryland 6-5 108 10
11 Dartmouth 7-3 106 11
12 Towson 9-3 82 14
13 Albany 8-4 76 13
14 Bucknell 8-4 64 12
15 Denver 8-4 59 19
16 Fairfield 9-3 57 15
17 Stony Brook 9-3 26 NR
18 Penn State 7-5 25 NR
19 Delaware 9-4 23 NR
20 Brown 5-5 14 18
Others receiving votes (in order): Hofstra 12, Yale 9, North Carolina 6, Notre Dame 4
http://www.laxpower.com/laxnews/news.php?story=1046
Good luck to Joe!
I'm doing a physics of sports presentation. As I looked at the speed at which various projectiles can be propelled, I realized that you must be able to shoot a lacrosse ball pretty fast, but I don't see any claims with a few quick Googles. Does anyone know the record recorded speed?
a normal D1 college guy is shooting somewhere in the high 80's mid 90's. for reference the last time i shot with a decent radar gun it was something like 91mph with my left and 86mph with my right. the fastest i've seen in my 17 around the game would be in the 103-105 mph range ... charlie lockwood (SU '94) was over 100 with both hands and jon reese (Yale '90) had a one hell of a cannon up around 102 ... and remember long poles are even more dangerous b/c the release point is tough read for the goalie and they can shoot faster with the added leverage of the longer shaft.
[Q]Hillel Hoffmann Wrote:
Fast forward to this Saturday. There's Cornell dominating time of possession. Cornell with more juice, more skills, more discipline, more depth and a lot more desire. And there's Cornell with the best recruiting class they've had in a long, long time waiting in the wings and there's--
Oops. I forgot. Princeton's last two recruiting classes were even better. And half our best players are seniors.[/q]
Don't know about the incoming class. I have heard (note - I have a conflict of interests here) that Cornell has a very, very good class coming. At this point, I'm thinking that Princeton's time alone on top of the league may be over. Billy Wilson at Dartmouth and Coach Tambroni have their programs right there to compete every year.
Can anyone explain the number of games each team is allowed to play? Why does Duke have a 14 game schedule (plus 2 ACC tournament games) when most other teams play only 11 or 12?
[Q]nshapiro Wrote:
Can anyone explain the number of games each team is allowed to play? Why does Duke have a 14 game schedule (plus 2 ACC tournament games) when most other teams play only 11 or 12?[/q]
if i remember correctly, the maximum number of NCAA competitive contests is set at 17 for the entire year, including "fall ball". This number excludes the NCAA playoffs, alumni event games … not sure about Conference tournaments. Take Cornell for example, we play 2 fall tournament games, 3 preseason scrimmages and then12 regular season contests to reach the 17 game maximum.
see: http://cornellbigred.collegesports.com/sports/m-lacros/sched/corn-m-lacros-sched.html
Thanks, Ben. I was wondering how much advantage a lacrosse player got from the extra lever arm compared to a baseball pitcher. It's not a perfect comparison, especially under game conditions, but not totally unreasonable either, so I'm somewhat surprised that it isn't a bit faster. Some how they don't come close to the speed of a pelote in jai alai.
I'm no physicist, but I imagine it hsa something to do with a less free/fluid motion than throwing (baseball-style). There must be some energy lost with both arms more levering the ball than flinging it. I imagine if someone had a 4 foot arm extension that he could throw with, it would be significantly faster.
Some differences:
When a long-stick hurls a lax ball, it's rarely fully overhand. There's usually a lot of sidearm action. Jai alai balls are often thrown fully overhand.
Maybe the effort of keeping the ball in the crosse causes the thrower to take something off the throw, where a jai alai cesta is shaped that the pelota tends to stay in it so maybe they can put everything into the throw.
Just some theories.
A baseball pitcher can do a full windup which helps put velocity on the ball. Power pitchers often seem to say that it's the legs that really do the work.
It's totally the legs. If pitchers bulk up their arms, they lose mobility. Same with power hitters. That's why good baseball players always have such big asses and thighs.
Ironically the conclusive evidence to this personal long-held suspicion (directly proportional relationship between ass size and hitting power) didn't come from long hours up in the Bronx staring at Jeter's booty, but from my time working with a Cornell baseball player who was always complaining that his ass was too small to be a good player. Indeed, as his ass size increased, so did his playing time.
So what's the story with Princeton lacrosse? They dominated the sport for a decade -- six national champiosnhips and NCAA runner up as recently as three years ago. 17 to 4?
Have they tightened up on admissions. (It's their former president William Bowen who has made such an issue of the Ivies overemphasizing sports.) Or did they just have a couple of bad recruiting years?
[Q]ben03 Wrote:
So with only a few weeks left in the lacrosse season here's what the NCAA's might look like after yesterdays results:
Seeded something like this:
1. JHU
2. Duke
3. UVA
4. Cornell*
5. Georgetown
6. Navy*
7. Syracuse
8. Army
9. Maryland
10. UMass
11. Dartmouth
12. Towson/Delaware*
13. Albany/Stony Brook*
14. Denver/Fairfield*
15. Bucknell/Penn State et al
16.Manhattan/Mount St. Mary’s*
Hillel, Al, Fred please feel free to correct any errors you see as my brain isn't up to speed ... b/c it's sunday morning[/q]
From Inside Lacrosse
Bracketology 4/26: http://insidelacrosse.com/page.cfm?pagerid=2&news=fdetail&storyid=89374
Quality wins and SOS rankings 4/21: http://www.insidelacrosse.com/page.cfm?pagerid=2&news=fdetail&storyid=88607
[Q]peterg Wrote: I have heard (note - I have a conflict of interests here) that Cornell has a very, very good class coming. At this point, I'm thinking that Princeton's time alone on top of the league may be over. Billy Wilson at Dartmouth and Coach Tambroni have their programs right there to compete every year. [/q]
I hope you're right.
I don't know if Dartmouth's success will be sustainable, given what I've heard about their administration.
Cornell, on the other hand, is going to be swimming in the photic zone of Ivy League lacrosse for as long as the current staff is willing to stick around. You're right, Tambroni and DeLuca have taken recruiting to the next level, and with the exception of abyssmal home attendance, there are plenty of signs of the program's long-term health.
Next year's freshman class may indeed be the best in a long time -- they have the potential to surpass this year's seniors (see below), which is saying a lot, and they could be the best cohort since the groups that graduated in 1982 and '83 (Crowley, Daly, Bollinger, Happel, Bruno, Mercer, et al). I mean, when was the last time that Cornell was able to land two Long Islanders in the same class who earned All America status ... as JUNIORS? (The kids in question: M/A Max Seibald of Hewlett and A Chris Finn of Manhasset).
The other thing you have to like about recent recruiting classes is the number of kids from lacrosse's developing nations: Texas, California, the Philadelphia area and such. That's a sign of a hard-working staff with deep, widespread connections. Some of the most intriguing prospects are Nick Gradinger, a defenseman from the San Diego area (via a post-graduate year at Deerfield) and a trio of long poles from the Delaware Valley (although the guy who may be the best of them, John Decker from the Haverford School, is out this season with a leg injury).
It's also nice to see Cornell landing some great players who also have superb academic credentials, even when competing head-to-head with Princeton and the like (DeBlois was an example of this). Check out the majors of the players in the media guide; you'll see a wide variety of challenging curricula. It's certainly a healthier mix than you saw on the roster when I went was at Cornell. Shoot, there are two physics majors getting minutes. The point here is that Cornell lacrosse hasn't always been able to get these kinds of kids. It's an indicator.
All evidence suggests that Cornell is reaching what our Colgate buddies on USCHO call a "high, flat plane."
However...
I think it's realistic to expect a temporary step backward next year, even with the arrival of kick-butt recruits. This year's senior class was just so f'ing talented and deep -- and they have three consecutive Ivy titles to show for it. Unfortunately, there's little evidence that the current underclassmen can fill their shoes. No one in that group made an immediate major impact, as Greenhalgh and Redd did (or for that matter as Princeton's Sowanick, Trombino, or Cocoziello did). Part of that, of course, is that the underclassmen haven't had much playing time. That lack of PT could really hurt in '06.
I'm not saying that Cornell won't be competitive. Peter's absolutely right: Princeton struggled to do so much as throw and catch in 2005. But looking at Princeton's projected roster in '06, which includes three of the very best HS seniors in the nation (Kovler, Peyser and Lesko), I see a return to Ivy championship form for the Tigers, even without a proven goalie. As this year's Cornell and Dartmouth teams prove, experience is worth a lot, and that's what Princeton will have in spades.
[Q]rstott wrote: So what's the story with Princeton lacrosse? They dominated the sport for a decade -- six national champiosnhips and NCAA runner up as recently as three years ago. 17 to 4? Have they tightened up on admissions...Or did they just have a couple of bad recruiting years? [/q]
Just a coupla bad recruiting years. But they'll never dominate Cornell year after year after year like they did in the 1990s.
Cornell. Is. Back.
[Q]Hillel Hoffmann Wrote:
[
Cornell. Is. Back.
[/q]
That sounds sooooo good!
I hope you're right.
>>> the photic zone
Hillel, are you hoping Williams Safire and F. Buckley stop by the site? What amazing and thought-provoking phraseology. Not to be confused with JM's bracketology.
[Q]Jerseygirl Wrote: It's totally the legs. If pitchers bulk up their arms, they lose mobility. Same with power hitters. That's why good baseball players always have such big asses and thighs. Ironically the conclusive evidence to this personal long-held suspicion (directly proportional relationship between ass size and hitting power) didn't come from long hours up in the Bronx staring at Jeter's booty, but from my time working with a Cornell baseball player who was always complaining that his ass was too small to be a good player. Indeed, as his ass size increased, so did his playing time.[/q]You're thinking Shaq would be the next .400 hitter? His butt should have those red triangular flags on either side.
[Q]billhoward Wrote:
You're thinking Shaq would be the next .400 hitter? His butt should have those red triangular flags on either side.
[/q]
Interesting that the last guy to do it was called "the splendid splinter."