ELynah Forum

So, they had these flyers at Cheel on Saturday. For those who weren't there, I just had to share. Too funny...
(http://www.elynah.com/media/2005/photos/atclarkson/flyer.gif)

I don't understand - "Please keep all cheers creative"?  I thought they wanted their fans to do the cheers they suggested, which definitely are not creative.  Make up your minds.   ::nut::

Beeeej

where's the "shoot spitballs at the opposing fans"?  ::rolleyes::  

[Q]Pete Godenschwager Wrote:  where's the "shoot spitballs at the opposing fans"?    [/q]Unneeded instruction. Encoded in Clarkson fan DNA.

[Q]CowbellGuy Wrote:

 So, they had these flyers at Cheel on Saturday. [/q]



 ::laugh::

Priceless.   I just printed one out for my fridge.

Man, how did I miss these flyers?  This is really funny.  Their 'sieve' taunts really worked on McKee, obviously. ::rolleyes::

Oh please...as if the faithful don't treat visting fans in similar fashion? I've experienced it myself.

It's somewhat sad to see that they found it necessary to put out these instructions.  Just shows you that Cheel's atmosphere is not what it used to be and of course, the team the past 2-3 uears has been weak and needs help!

If you wanted to see home ice advantage, old Clarkson/Walker Arena was the place to be.

I disagree with one thing in particular...any top goalie who is focused and on his game, might "hear" the fans yelling BUT they block it out.  Actually, most players do that.  As a former goalie and current coach, I believe that heckling is overrated re: upsetting players, but if it gets the fans into the game, so be it.

Does this satisfy the requirement that I respond to anything "negative" about Clarkson?  :-D

Probably they were all gone before you saw them- either the students disposed of them in the proper receptacle or kept them for future reference as so helpfully suggested at the bottom of the flyer.  :-P

[Q]RichS Wrote:

 Oh please...as if the faithful don't treat visting fans in similar fashion? I've experienced it myself.

It's somewhat sad to see that they found it necessary to put out these instructions.  Just shows you that Cheel's atmosphere is not what it used to be and of course, the team the past 2-3 uears has been weak and needs help!

If you wanted to see home ice advantage, old Clarkson/Walker Arena was the place to be.

I disagree with one thing in particular...any top goalie who is focused and on his game, might "hear" the fans yelling BUT they block it out.  Actually, most players do that.  As a former goalie and current coach, I believe that heckling is overrated re: upsetting players, but if it gets the fans into the game, so be it.

Does this satisfy the requirement that I respond to anything "negative" about Clarkson?   [/q]

Ok...who had 37 minutes?

>>> "SILVERTHORN AND McKEE ARE SIEVES!!! LET THEM KNOW THIS!!!!"

125 minutes played, 3 goals allowed, 1.44 GAA (the average of 2.76GAA and 0.00GAA). Some sieves.

[edit: correcting basic math error of two games plus 1 OT equalling not 165 but 125 minutes.]

I'm sure it was their most modestly priced receptacle.  :-D

[Q]billhoward Wrote:165 minutes played, 3 goals allowed, 1.44 GAA (the average of 2.76GAA and 0.00GAA). Some sieves. [/q]Two hockey games plus one overtime equals 125 minutes, not 165.

[q]I disagree with one thing in particular...any top goalie who is focused and on his game, might "hear" the fans yelling BUT they block it out. Actually, most players do that. As a former goalie and current coach, I believe that heckling is overrated re: upsetting players, but if it gets the fans into the game, so be it.[/q]Part of being a good player at a high level is blocking out everything that's happening in the stands.  I suspect that heckling doesn't have an effect very often, especially when it's the generic "Sieve" type (note: I don't have any problem with sieve chants - I just don't think any college goalie is going to be upset at being called one).  It definitely can have an effect on occasion, as Mr. Boucher demonstrated at Lynah a few years back.  When the crowd can rise to that level where they actually do impact a player's performance then it's something to be proud of (since I find it unlikely that the crowd ever reallly helps an opposing player do better).

[Q]RichS Wrote:
 Oh please...as if the faithful don't treat visting fans in similar fashion? I've experienced it myself. [/q]

I'm sure some do, and it's not cool.

Spitballs -- not cool :-(
"Section O sucks" etc cheers -- cool :-P
Buying each other a drink after the game -- way cool B-]

you know, this sorta thing (cheer sheet) reminds me (in principle) of the whole duke cheer sheets mess. i hand it to the cam' crazies, they're very creative. most amusing recent escapade: maryland player nick caner-medley was arrested for a drunken fight, and he reportedly screamed out "you can't beat me, i'm from maryland" as he was taken away in cuffs. at the next game, the sheets indicated the info to all the students, and in rounds the two halves of the stadium commenced "i'm from maryland" and "you can't beat me." that's too good. some other game, a guy came dressed in a huge milk carton: missing jumpshot.

but back to the point. yes, these people spend hours researching lurid details of opponents' pasts, and get far worse details than the faithful generally do. (and if you thought the phone number/parents name thing crosses the line...). however, these kids who run the operation are like the cheering nazis of cameron indoor. they have to pass out these ridiculous cheer sheets in the thousands to the fans, who just repeat things, instead of coming up with them on their own. what i like about lynah is that it's so freewheeling. nobody tells (told) me what to say, and that was the best. there's alot more creativity in the approach, even if it isn't as far-reaching into the dark pasts of the opponents.

-mike

in addition, "i'd rather be dead than red."
well, i'd rather spell "impersonator" correctly on a sheet i plan to give to thousands of people which espouses my school pride and represents my education.

[Q]
I disagree with one thing in particular...any top goalie who is focused and on his game, might "hear" the fans yelling BUT they block it out.  Actually, most players do that.  As a former goalie and current coach, I believe that heckling is overrated re: upsetting players, but if it gets the fans into the game, so be it. [/q]

well we know that a certain dartmouth college goaltender whose name is quite similar to that of a waterboy turned devilsgame i mean football player was ALWAYS able to block out the cheers of section A :)

i laugh every time i think about that goal...:-D

I have to agree with RichS - it's kind of sad that this was necessary at Clarkson.  I can remember a trip up around 1980 or 1981.  Brian Hayward was in net.  He'll still tell you he can hear that bell.  It was a horrible result (a 10-3 loss, or maybe 12-2? - just horrible), but the atmosphere in the old rink was incredible.  Oh, and that bell.  The crowd needed no prompting and it was as tough a place to play as any - I dare say as tough or tougher than Lynah was then or is now.  Did I mention the bell?

Most of their fans were pretty passionless at the game, especially considering that it was senior night. The students gave the obligatory f*** Cornell chant (and were obviously not repremanded), and followed their cheer sheets like good little soldiers.
The one thing that did impressed me, was that they all new the anti-Cornell remix to Cayuga's Waters ("there is a funny smell"... you know how it goes), which impresses me even more that I realize it wasn't on the cheer sheet.
This of course resulted in subsequent embarassment, when they were instructed to sing their own alma mater for the seniors, and no one knew the words (good thing the band knew it). Just a few thoughts from the game
---> and props to the Cornell fans for turning the "Let's go Tech" chant into a resounding "discotech" chant... hillarious

[q] Most of their fans were pretty passionless at the game, especially considering that it was senior night.[/q]A couple people have made this comment.  It seems to me that Senior night isn't an event that's going to really bring out the passion in the crowd unless they already have plenty to be thankful to the seniors for.  When the team has performed poorly the crowd isn't going to be much into it, period.  Yes, ideally we should all be good sports and such and respect the ffort that the seniors have put in, yada yada blah blah.  But the reality is it's not surprising when the results on the ice aren't good.  If and when Clarkson turns it around I'm sure their fans will be as rabid as ever.

[Q]KeithK Wrote:When the team has performed poorly the crowd isn't going to be much into it[/q]

They ought to be.  It means they're leaving. ;-)

Speaking of the crazies from duke... the depth of the operation that led to the missing jordan jersey from nc state a while back is amazing. That took craftiness, creativity and extreme dedication.

Oh, and by the way...  "You're a big puss"?  Laaaaaaaame.

[Q]RichS Wrote:

 It's somewhat sad to see that they found it necessary to put out these instructions.  [/q]

Yeah, these Clarkson fans are so dumb in that they need instruction on how to cheer.

http://www.elynah.com/?cheers

::stupid::

The announcer proudly stating that in their 4 year careers that they had 56 wins was the best moment of the night.

Hey, that's a lot of wins.... oh wait, they've lost 63 games too.

Well, they were pretty passionate in the Todd White era but many of you guys may not remember that.

cornell wasn't as strong then and the Faithful had an off night the time I was there during White's senior year...'96-'97.  So "off" that they actually cheered White respectfully as a legit Hobey candidate after he put on a dominating performance.

And here's something to reflect on.  In '97 and '99, when I saw Clarkson win at Lynah, both of which clinched the reg season title, I experienced some over the line behavior directed at Clarkson fans.  Interesting that in the most recent two trips to Lynah when corenll dominated from the first minute and won rather easily, th evisiting fans were treated much better.

Hmmm....and it seems that same dynamic is at hand currently at Cheel from the coments of you guys who were there the past couple of years.

[Q]RichS Wrote:

 Well, they were pretty passionate in the Todd White era but many of you guys may not remember that.

cornell wasn't as strong then and the Faithful had an off night the time I was there during White's senior year...'96-'97.  So "off" that they actually cheered White respectfully as a legit Hobey candidate after he put on a dominating performance.[/q]Of course we remember! That is when we got passionate about deriding the meaninglessness of the regular season "title."

Cornell Big Red, ECAC Champions 1996 and 1997.

But did we give out cheer sheets those years?

yeah, because cornell didn't win it...lol.   Seems to have acquired a bit more meaning in more recent years.  :-D

"When finished with this guide please dispose of in the proper receptacle," sounds like the email sent by an executive at Arthur Andersen to Enron!::moon::

[Q]RichS Wrote:Seems to have acquired a bit more meaning in more recent years.   [/q]I dunno, Rich.  The left-hand side of my screen calls it the "Cleary Jell-O Mold" at the moment.  I think it said "Cleary Pisspot" on my last click.

Now Clarkson fans once again learn the reality that a gracious loser is still a, ah, loser.

Clarkson/St. Lawrence seem to share a couple ECAC RS or postseason titles every ten years, then go into never-neverland.

[Q]RichS Wrote:
Seems to have acquired a bit more meaning in more recent years.   [/q]
"Cleary Spittoon" on mine - very clever, Age, with that random script to show the alternate names. How technology improves our lives every day B-]

[Q]peterg Wrote:

 I have to agree with RichS - it's kind of sad that this was necessary at Clarkson.  I can remember a trip up around 1980 or 1981.  Brian Hayward was in net.  He'll still tell you he can hear that bell.  It was a horrible result (a 10-3 loss, or maybe 12-2? - just horrible), but the atmosphere in the old rink was incredible.  Oh, and that bell.  The crowd needed no prompting and it was as tough a place to play as any - I dare say as tough or tougher than Lynah was then or is now.  Did I mention the bell?[/q]

At least the bell is being used again.  There were a couple of years there when the boys from DSP seemed to be falling down on the job.

And as I've said before, if Tech ever wins the national title, that damn bell had better ring for 24 hours straight.

[Q]Will Wrote:

 But did we give out cheer sheets those years?[/q]

Cheer sheets were given out in the past 20 years, several times, by the boosters, the band and by interested fans.  I have a couple, including one from a Harvard game, when the fans had clearly forgotten the special Harvard cheers and the band needed to remind them of the words.

And there have been plenty of times over the past 20 years when the Faithful have been bad (and tasteless) sports after losing at Lynah.

It's easy to laugh at others when things are going as well as they are for our hockey program now.

[Q]A-19 Wrote:

 you know, this sorta thing (cheer sheet) reminds me (in principle) of the whole duke cheer sheets mess. i hand it to the cam' crazies, they're very creative. most amusing recent escapade: maryland player nick caner-medley was arrested for a drunken fight, and he reportedly screamed out "you can't beat me, i'm from maryland" as he was taken away in cuffs. at the next game, the sheets indicated the info to all the students, and in rounds the two halves of the stadium commenced "i'm from maryland" and "you can't beat me." that's too good. some other game, a guy came dressed in a huge milk carton: missing jumpshot.

[/q]

Of course, the Maryland fans got their revenge: http://www.diamondbackonline.com/vnews/display.v/ART/2005/01/28/41f9ca982b370

[Q]Among other drivel, RichS wrote:
Oh please...as if the faithful don't treat visting fans in similar fashion? I've experienced it myself. [/Q]

As usual, RichS shows up only to miss the point.  Nobody was complaining that the cheer sheets called for behavior that crossed the line - in fact, quite the opposite: we were laughing at how weak the called-for cheers were.  When I go to Clarkson, I expect to be verbally abused 10x worse than anything that was printed on those sheets.  Anything less, and you're hardly trying!

Let me spell it out for you:

Cool List:
Heckling opposing team
Heckling opposing fans
Spontaneous and creative cheers
Cheering a dominating performance by an opposing player
Gathering over a beer with opposing fans after a game
Having an annoying goddam bell that annoys the hell out of opposing fans

Lame List:
Passing out cheer sheets that have weak cheers on them
Not knowing the words to your school's alma mater
Crossing the line with opposing fans (spitballs, threats, physicality)

[Q]RichS Wrote:

 yeah, because cornell didn't win it...lol.   Seems to have acquired a bit more meaning in more recent years.   [/q]I, with Age, am calling bullshit on this. Nobody here calls us ECAC Champions because of the Cleary. We like regular season success because it demonstrates the quality of the team but we don't pretend that it means as much as the tournament. I remember the roundtable and every time Clarkson honked the tournament we had to have the same debate about what "champion" meant.

Our Red Are AWESOME!!!

[Q]Robb Wrote:
Cool List:
Spontaneous and creative cheers
[/q]

Addition:

Passing out a cheer sheet with creative cheers to counteract the ubiquity of "[Opposing team] sucks!"

If Clarkson's cheer sheet is lame, then show them up.  Everyone knows that good taunting, like good comedy, requires equal parts preparation and spontaneity.

I'm prepared to take the hate... but here's a perspective from a Clarkson fan.

Seriously... if you are trying to call Clarkson not creative, I think you need to look at your own.  Your cheers haven't changed in how long?  I understand that some are tradition and that's great, but when you say "Clarkson... SUCKS" ad nauseum (to the tune of 15 times in the first period, we counted) then it's time to think up something new.

I thought "Drive home, find a gorge, jump right in" was fairly creative, and don't worry, we keep adding verses to your alma mater (new one added last year).  I'll be seeing the Lynah Faithful again for the 2nd round of the ECAC playoffs regardless of Clarkson vs Union (living in Ithaca and being on spring break I need something to do).  I'll keep track of your cheers and let you know how much more or less creative you were than Clarkson.

Also, keep in mind that nobody's student section gets into it, INCLUDING the Lynah Faithful, when they're getting killed.  From what I hear, Game 3 of last year's playoffs at Lynah was pretty dead, except for all of you getting mad at the Clarkson fan with the trumpet.  Regardless of what you thought of him, you gotta admit it takes balls to go to Lynah and do what he did.

With regard to the Karma Bell -- the frat kids who ring it now are idiots.  They tend to ring it at the most inappropriate times (right after we take a penalty), which is why you don't see them as much.  It's considered annoying when not rung appropriately.  If they could give the job to someone other than that frat, which unfortunately they can't, it might be a lot better.

[Q]daredevilcu Wrote:
Seriously... if you are trying to call Clarkson not creative, I think you need to look at your own.  Your cheers haven't changed in how long?[/q]

About one game.  The great thing about any creative hockey crowd, whether Lynah or elsewhere, is the spontaneous, one-time-only chants, cheers, jibes, insults, questioning of masculinity (in the case of engineering schools this is superfluous) and irritiating, incessant running commentary.  If you listen at Lynah, there is never quiet or even semi-quiet -- people come up with stuff like flashbulbs going off, randomly, all over the building, in response to any stimulae, no matter how silly or subtle.  Opposing players get ribbed for having their sweaters hang wrong, or for taking a turn or stop awkwardly, or for no reaon at all.  And missed by the opposing fan is the constant hum of positive cheers and chants directed at the home team, and the ubiquitous screamed compliments and appreciations to home players for equally small stuff -- keeping their head up and making a small positional change that blocks off a pass, backing up another guy when he pinches in, or... for no reason at all, but just because they're wearing red.

The en masse, traditional cheers are only a tiny portion of the experience.  If you think Lynah is just "Screw BU, X Too!", you're completely missing the point.

[Q]Trotsky Wrote:
 [Q2]daredevilcu Wrote:
Seriously... if you are trying to call Clarkson not creative, I think you need to look at your own.  Your cheers haven't changed in how long?[/Q]
The en masse, traditional cheers are only a tiny portion of the experience.  If you think Lynah is just "Screw BU, X Too!", you're completely missing the point.[/q]

Plus, coming to this board and saying "[Opposing team] Sucks!" is an overused crutch is kind of preaching to the choir.

Beeeej

[Q]CUlater 89 Wrote:

 [Q2]Will Wrote:

 But did we give out cheer sheets those years?[/Q]
Cheer sheets were given out in the past 20 years, several times, by the boosters, the band and by interested fans.  I have a couple, including one from a Harvard game, when the fans had clearly forgotten the special Harvard cheers and the band needed to remind them of the words.[/q]

I've thought of making up cheer sheets to marshall the locals at far-flung tournaments after the experience of having about two people in the Cornell section at the 1995 Denver Cup http://www.amurgsval.org/squishy/denver.4.c.html#round2 know any of the cheers.

[Q]CUlater 89 Wrote:
It's easy to laugh at others when things are going as well as they are for our hockey program now.[/q]

And Clarkson has certainly been one of the better crowds in their prime.  Vermont may have had bigger loud crowds, but at least Tech has more than one cheer.

But still, "You're a big puss"?  Lame!  Don't call someone a pussy if you're not willing to say the word.

[Q]daredevilcu Wrote:

I understand that some are tradition and that's great, but when you say "Clarkson... SUCKS" ad nauseum (to the tune of 15 times in the first period, we counted) then it's time to think up something new.[/q]

I think we all agree that that cheer has gotten a little overused lately.  The version of that with the full name of the school, like "Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute ... SUCKS!" or "The Ohio State University ... SUCKS!" is really cool the first time it's done in a game, or a period, but not the fifth time.  If Ari played the cowbell at every stoppage, we'd complain about him too.

But Greg's right, when we're on, there are also spur-of-the-moment cheers thrown in, like "Kris is a moron" after Union goalie Mayotte got caught lingering behind the net for a Cornell goal in our last home game.

[Q]I thought "Drive home, find a gorge, jump right in" was fairly creative, and don't worry, we keep adding verses to your alma mater (new one added last year).[/Q]

I happen to think the "awful smell" lyrics are kind of lame, but I know why you sing them, and the band's thing with the lighters is hilarious.  It was also funny watching them burn their fingers when they came to Lynah on Senior Night last year. ::laugh:: But, new verses, how many are you up to?  As discussed in another thread, we've got six. ;-)

[Q]I'll be seeing the Lynah Faithful again for the 2nd round of the ECAC playoffs regardless of Clarkson vs Union (living in Ithaca and being on spring break I need something to do).  I'll keep track of your cheers and let you know how much more or less creative you were than Clarkson.[/Q]

Unfortunately, I won't be there, but if I were, I'd raise a glass with you at the Chapter House.

[Q]all of you getting mad at the Clarkson fan with the trumpet.  Regardless of what you thought of him, you gotta admit it takes balls to go to Lynah and do what he did.[/Q]

One of the reasons I especially liked SC Bern games when EV Zug were the visitors is because they brought a good fan group, including not only drums but one or two trumpeters.  And the Clarkson game at Lynah is always fun because Tech brings their band.  (And unlike Colgate's, that band doesn't suck.)

[Q]With regard to the Karma Bell -- the frat kids who ring it now are idiots.  They tend to ring it at the most inappropriate times (right after we take a penalty), which is why you don't see them as much.  It's considered annoying when not rung appropriately.  If they could give the job to someone other than that frat, which unfortunately they can't, it might be a lot better.[/q]

Reducing the impact by ringing at inappropriate times has been a problem for a while; I remember noting back in '97 that "yay, we completed a pass at the blue line" was kind of lame. http://www.amurgsval.org/joe/hockey/ncrt.html OTOH, there was a period where the DSP guys were just not showing up, or not coming until the second period.  Ringing at the wrong times is better than not ringing at all.

>>> Also, keep in mind that nobody's student section gets into it, INCLUDING the Lynah Faithful, when they're getting killed. From what I hear, Game 3 of last year's playoffs at Lynah was pretty dead, except for all of you getting mad at the Clarkson fan with the trumpet. Regardless of what you thought of him, you gotta admit it takes balls to go to Lynah and do what he did.

The kid has one point: bringing a trumpet to Lynah if you're solo, not part of the Clarkson marching band (for what sport would they march?), takes big ones.

Is there a Clarkson cheer that goes "I'm blind, I'm dumb, I study at Cornell"?  If so...what's up with that?  I'm sorry, but that's a stupid cheer.  Could one of the Clarkson people explain this to me?

I believe it was "I smell, I'm dumb..."

>>> Is there a Clarkson cheer that goes "I'm blind, I'm dumb, I study at Cornell"?

It's seven syllables short of hai-ku, although one could add, "Fight, fight, fight, go Golden Knights." But it's not the kind of thing you'd ink on ricepaper and hand out.  

[Q]billhoward Wrote:

The kid has one point: bringing a trumpet to Lynah if you're solo, not part of the Clarkson marching band (for what sport would they march?), takes big ones. [/q]

Marching with that big bass amplifier is kind of tricky.  Although I did see one in a Mardi Gras parade, pulled along in a little wagon.

Now that's creative.  Woo!!

Beeeej

[Q]CowbellGuy Wrote:

 I believe it was "I smell, I'm dumb..."[/q]

Presumably, "I'm dumb, I smell..." since that would actually rhyme.

Not every fanbase can come up with a sign that says "Lasciate ogne speranza, voi ch'intrate".  And even fewer can hold the sign right-side-up. :-}

As part of Clarkson's band -- we don't march for anything, the only sport we really play for is hockey.  Nothing else is big in the frigid tundra known as Potsdam.

Oh... and yes, it's really pathetic that we needed the cheer sheet at all.  I gotta say, I'm glad I go to Clarkson and not Cornell, but I wish we had enough people to have the kind of fan base Lynah's got, and I think most colleges would say the same thing.

Last year a third verse was added... and it's about time from what I gather.  I've been racking my brain trying to come up with another good one, but it's not that easy.  You'd think I'd be able to think of SOMETHING, living near Ithaca (10 square miles surrounded by reality).  I also have NO CLUE how the student section knew the verses to our version of your alma mater, but it definitely was cool to find out that they did this weekend.

I do have to credit your pep band for one good cheer all night -- Disco Tech was funny.  They just need to work on their diction to make it not sound like a garbled "Let's Go Tech"

I, for one, hope Clarkson gets back to form. I always loved it when they came to Lynah in my time... Their fan base was VERY creative and the back and forth jibes between the two was fun as hell.

As the person who wrote the orginal cheer sheet back in 2002 I feel like I need to defend myself.

I wrote that thing for the Clarkson - SLU game in which we were trying to, and did, break the attendance record.  At the time I was a seinor, or junior, well I was at school, and our crowds, while good in attendance, were poor in cheering and general hockey knowledge.  So I wrote the sheet in an attempt to get the whole student section to stand and taunt little Kevin Ackley in any way possible, just to try and get in his head.  On the back side I printed off the current standings, and the scoring leaders for our team and other sorts of Clarkson sports info.  I don't know if they do that now.  Maybe it was just me.  The sheets worked well, the students sprang to life and the game was great.  So the idea kinda stuck.

As for "youre a big puss," we made that up after watching a Wresteling Tape dubbed over by ICP.  They just kinda winged voices over Japanese wrestlers and one of the comments was, "I'm a big puss."  Henceforth that kinda became tradition.

You can call it "BS" all you want but you'd be wrong.

If winning the RS represents the quality of the team, how come it didn't represent that when Clarkson won it...and I'm talking about BEFORE their poor NCAA performance.

[Q]RichS Wrote:

 You can call it "BS" all you want but you'd be wrong.

If winning the RS represents the quality of the team, how come it didn't represent that when Clarkson won it...and I'm talking about BEFORE their poor NCAA performance.

[/q]It represents the quality of the team, Rich. It just doesn't entitle them to call themselves champs. For instance, Cornell was not the ECAC champion in 2002. Capice?

Nor were the Steelers the NFL champions this past year.  The NHL gives out an award for the best record.  Do you see any Senators fans holding any parades for the ones that they won?  Just because you won something doesn't make you "the champion".

"Regular season champs"...isn't that the language used?

You don't have to explain the difference between the RS Champs and the playoff champs.  Although there was a brief period when winning the RS title was eqaul in significance as it got you an auto bid to the NCAAs.

Capice?

[Q]RichS Wrote:

 You can call it "BS" all you want but you'd be wrong.[/q]

What you said:
[Q] Posted by RichS on March 1, 2005

yeah, because cornell didn't win it...lol. Seems to have acquired a bit more meaning in more recent years. :-D[/Q]

What I said (another thread):
[Q]Posted by RichH on February 27, 2005

The Regular Season "Championship" is not a Championship, and there's nothing anyone can do or say to convince me otherwise. It made me want to vomit when USCHO Colgate fans put "2004 ECAC CHAMPIONS" in 48 point font in their signatures. (but not as much as I actually vomited when Harvard won the real 2004 Championship) I think Colgate's team also skated the Cleary Pisspot around as if it were the AVCO Cup. Morons.[/Q]

So yeah, what you said was BS.  Many (not all, I admit) Cornell fans agree with me that the Whitelaw is much more significant and important than the Cleary Urinal. (http://store.yahoo.com/brucemedical/conandfracbe.html)  Which is contrary to your statement that now that we're winning it, we all think it's more meaningful than when Clarkson was winning it.  We're hypocritical when it comes to a lot of things, but this one, I'm supporting ugarte's "BS" call, regardless of how you want to paint us.

[Q]RichS Wrote:
Although there was a brief period when winning the RS title was eqaul in significance as it got you an auto bid to the NCAAs.[/q]
If all that matters is getting an NCAA bid, then they were equal in that respect, but hardly equal in significance. One meant you were league champions, one meant you got to play (and immediately lose, in Clarkson's case) in the NCAA tournament.

[Q]daredevilcu Wrote: I gotta say, I'm glad I go to Clarkson and not Cornell, but I wish we had enough people to have the kind of fan base Lynah's got, and I think most colleges would say the same thing.[/q]Didn't Aesop say that a while back, only using "fox" instead of "Clarkson":

>>> A FAMISHED FOX saw some clusters of ripe black grapes hanging from a trellised vine.  She resorted to all her tricks to get at them, but wearied herself in vain, for she could not reach them. At last she turned away, hiding her disappointment and saying: "The Grapes are sour, and not ripe as I thought." The moral of the story: Any fool can despise what he cannot get.

There ought to be a pairwise comarisons chart for all colleges showing who got in where and who enrolled where. Harvard and Princeton probably don't lose many PWCs. We win some, we lose some (but look at our strength of schedule), because for a lot of people it's where we wanted to go (really!), for some it's a safety school (right), for some it's a reach school.

But seriously for a minute: Do the Ivies at least among themselves share information about who's jointly admitted (eg to Cornell and Brown and Yale) so they can internally track who went where? That would be an intriguing free-market counterpoint to the U.S. News kinds of rankings the colleges decry (especially in years when they slip).

[q]But seriously for a minute: Do the Ivies at least among themselves share information about who's jointly admitted (eg to Cornell and Brown and Yale) so they can internally track who went where?[/q]Absolutely. The Ivies and MIT got together to compare notes when it comes to financial aid.  The theory being that in keeping with need-blind applicants should decide where to go based on the merits of each school and not based on financial decisions.  The courts didn't like this theory so the practice was stopped (a number of years ago already).

FYI, I could've gotten into Cornell had I wanted to.  Salutatorian, 1340 SATs, good SAT 2's (don't remember exact score), plenty of extracurriculars.  It's not that I couldn't become part of the Big Red.  It's that I didn't want to.  I know what Ithaca's like and it's pretty lame.  Had I bothered to fill out the lengthy application, it would have been a safety school anyway, so I decided not to.

Also, where did I say I despised the Lynah Faithful?  I don't -- they're actually an amazing group of fans that every sport needs some form of.  Without dedicated fans like you guys, Cornell hockey would probably have nobody there who cared.  Ever been to Dartmouth's arena?  You think Colgate is dead... visit New Hampshire.  That arena's not quiet -- it's SILENT.

I like your point, though.  It would also be interesting to see who is accepted IV (since all Ivy is derived from is your athetic league years ago -- four), who decides to go there, and who goes elsewhere.  Keep in mind that intelligence is probably less of a factor than money in most cases.

[Q]daredevilcu Wrote:

 FYI, I could've gotten into Cornell had I wanted to.  Salutatorian, 1340 SATs, good SAT 2's (don't remember exact score), plenty of extracurriculars.  It's not that I couldn't become part of the Big Red.  It's that I didn't want to.  I know what Ithaca's like and it's pretty lame.  Had I bothered to fill out the lengthy application, it would have been a safety school anyway, so I decided not to.[/q]

http://eng-as-web.ece.cornell.edu/prospective/undergraduate/class-profile.cfm

[Q]daredevilcu Wrote:

 FYI, I could've gotten into Cornell had I wanted to.  Salutatorian, 1340 SATs, good SAT 2's (don't remember exact score), plenty of extracurriculars.[/q]

Sorry Pal, we don't bother to accept people who score below 1350 on their SATs.  But I can see your point, Potsdam isn't lame at all.

Please please please tell me we're not gonna have the NC vs. Ithaca debate again.

[OT] The comparison of admissions information for the purposes, allegedly, of making equal financial aid offers, that I knew about. I was thinking about the tracking afterwards, of seeing who actually enrolled where, and comparing that to the places where the person was accepted. Did the schools follow through before, and did they give it up after their legal woes arose?

The equal-financial-aid issue among the Ivies and MIT was a fascinating case of how academics and others (at least Forbes and the WSJ) see it way differently. From a pure educational point of view, it made sense that the student picked Cornell over Yale for the purest of academic purposes. From a free market point of view, why shouldn't Cornell and Yale compete to attract the student? If tuition/room/board was the same at both and Yale offered $15K outright and $10K in loans, while Cornell offered $17K in scholarhips and $10K in loans, why shouldn't the student pick the better deal?

There may have been an unsaid fear among the colleges that every student would tend toward the better deal financially among comparable colleges, so if Cornell misculated $2K too generous in the case of student A, and Yale calculated $2.5K too generous in the case of B, then A would be at Cornell, B would be in New Haven, and together the schools would be out $4.5K they didn't want to spend. Did this case actually go to court or did the Ivies and MIT fold their tents and steal away?

[Q]RichH Wrote:
 [Q2]RichS Wrote:
 You can call it "BS" all you want but you'd be wrong.[/Q]
What you said:
[Q2] Posted by RichS on March 1, 2005
yeah, because cornell didn't win it...lol. Seems to have acquired a bit more meaning in more recent years. [/Q]
What I said (another thread):
[Q2]Posted by RichH on February 27, 2005
The Regular Season "Championship" is not a Championship, and there's nothing anyone can do or say to convince me otherwise. It made me want to vomit when USCHO Colgate fans put "2004 ECAC CHAMPIONS" in 48 point font in their signatures. (but not as much as I actually vomited when Harvard won the real 2004 Championship) I think Colgate's team also skated the Cleary Pisspot around as if it were the AVCO Cup. Morons.[/Q]
So yeah, what you said was BS.  Many (not all, I admit) Cornell fans agree with me that the Whitelaw is much more significant and important than the Cleary Urinal.  Which is contrary to your statement that now that we're winning it, we all think it's more meaningful than when Clarkson was winning it.  We're hypocritical when it comes to a lot of things, but this one, I'm supporting ugarte's "BS" call, regardless of how you want to paint us.[/q]::popcorn::

I'm not an engineer.  That's the mid 50% for engineering only, and I could've gotten in if I pushed it, trust me.

I did realize that my example wasn't exactly what you asked about.

[q]Did this case actually go to court or did the Ivies and MIT fold their tents and steal away?[/q]I'm pretty sure it did actualy go to court and the schools lost.  I don't remember how high it went.

Who knew so many interesting tangents and sub-topics could be spawned from one .gif?  :-)

[Q]daredevilcu Wrote:
I like your point, though.  It would also be interesting to see who is accepted IV (since all Ivy is derived from is your athetic league years ago -- four), [/q]

Cute urban legend, but wrong.  The phrase "Ivy League" was coined in 1937 by a bitter sportswriter who got sent to cover a Penn-Columbia game.

See the last article on this page: http://shop.store.yahoo.com/ivysport/ivyleaghis.html


[Q]The time was Thursday afternoon, October 14, 1937. The setting was the sports department of the New York Herald-Tribune. Assignments were being made for coverage of the leading college football games of the week. The late George Daley, sports editor, and Irving Marsh, assistant sports editor, were making up the list.

To Stanley Woodward, even then a veteran and brilliant football writer, went the Pittsburgh-Fordham game at the Polo Grounds in New York. This was the game New Yorkers wanted most to read about, which was reason enough for Woodward to cover. He was then and is now one of the ablest writers the gridiron has produced in his years; and his years as a sports writer go back to about 1920.

When the other staff men got their assignments, Caswell Adams drew the Columbia-Pennsylvania game at Columbia's Baker Field in New York.

Now, Mr. Adams, ...had no quarrel with either Columbia or Pennsylvania. Both, in his considered judgment, were and are splendid old institutions of higher learning. He was, however, able to restrain with relative ease his enthusiasm for football as played in that day by a number of teams representing the more venerable centers of higher education in the East. This was in the heydey of Fordham University as a major football power; and Mr. Adams is a Fordham man.

Briefly, Piquantly, without rancor, he expressed his views to the editor.

"Whyinell," he inquired, "do I have to watch the ivy grow every Saturday afternoon? How about letting me see some football away from the ivy-covered halls of learning for a change?"

He did not press the point. There was a Friday night boxing match coming up in Madison Square Garden, and he had an advance story to write. He forgot the matter.

But Stanley Woodward, at a nearby typewriter, did not forget. He had heard a new phrase. Ivy-covered? Ivy group? Ivy League?" These old schools of the East did not like leagues. They had long shunned the conference idea. Stanley like to ruffle them occasionally and chuckled when he did so. Why not call these colleges the "Ivy League"?

[snip]

So a few days later, though not on the Monday morning immediately following, there crept unobtrusively into a Woodward football essay the phrase "...and in the Ivy League..." as introduction to a discussion of what was happening on the fields of the East's oldest colleges which, even then and without a semblance of formal grouping, were natural and traditional rivals. Set down alphabetically, they were, of course, Brown, Columbia, Cornell, Dartmouth, Harvard, Pennsylvania, Princeton, and Yale.

The phrase caught on. Other writers soon picked it up. Then football enthusiasts began to use it in conversation. Before long even some of the academicians began to adopt it. Few who used it knew, or even wondered, about its origin.[/Q]

not a bad idea for some cheers, for example 'you lose' and 'warm' up the bus'::rolleyes::

The only thing that is worse than seeing demographics that show 73% dudes is going to class with 73% dudes.  :-(

Gotta say, I agree with Facetimer (gah!)... you thought Ithaca was lame, so you went to POTSDAM?!

As for "I would've gotten in," what makes you think you were so guaranteed?  The overwhelming majority of applicants for Cornell had similar or better credentials.  Did you have photos of Cornell's president sodomizing kittens or something?  'cause otherwise, you're blowing smoke.  I can respect your decision not to apply, but "I would've gotten in" is pure bunk.

Beeeej

To get back to the subject, (i dunno how this thread went from fan etiquete (sp?) to why we pick certain schools),I think the basic message CowbellGuy wanted to send out was that its pretty sad to see the state Clarkson is in with its fans. I used to go to a couple games in the '90s and at that time games would be sold-out well before doors opened. But I guess that's what you get after 3 years of sub-par regular season play, a firing of a coach, and a recent clubbing from SLU(t).  Basically, I think I would give kudos to the Clarkson Pep Band in an attempt to at least get their fans to stand up and cheer along.

[Q]KeithK Wrote:

 I did realize that my example wasn't exactly what you asked about.

[Q2]Did this case actually go to court or did the Ivies and MIT fold their tents and steal away?[/Q]
I'm pretty sure it did actualy go to court and the schools lost.  I don't remember how high it went.[/q]

U.S. District Court.

Ivies bailed via a consent decree where they agreed to stop without admitting liability. MIT refused to settle and lost.

Curiously, the consent decree specifically excludes athletes from the ban. Whether or not the Ivies actually take advantage of this exception is a separate issue.

[Q]jy3 Wrote:

 [Q2]
I disagree with one thing in particular...any top goalie who is focused and on his game, might "hear" the fans yelling BUT they block it out.  Actually, most players do that.  As a former goalie and current coach, I believe that heckling is overrated re: upsetting players, but if it gets the fans into the game, so be it. [/Q]
well we know that a certain dartmouth college goaltender whose name is quite similar to that of a waterboy turned devilsgame i mean football player was ALWAYS able to block out the cheers of section A

i laugh every time i think about that goal...[/q]

Every time I think about that goal I start to laugh... then I remember that several seconds later Dartmouth skated out of Lynah victorious.  Again.    ::yark::

Well I agree with the fellow Clarkson posts up here so far. I also think that our pepband has done everything in our power to try and make things better. But I need to make one point very well known. It's not a huge problem of spirit, it's a problem of numbers. Cornell has about twice as many if not more regular fans than we do, and it definetly shows. I would bet money that if Clarkson and cornell each had the same number of fans, and their regular pep band, we would be better. Disagree if you want to, but I think it's a pretty valid point.

How about, I'm confident I could convince them in an interview.  Anyway, that's completely beside the point and I didn't mean to turn this into a hypothetical discussion over whether or not I could have gotten into Cornell.  I don't THINK Ithaca is lame -- I KNOW Ithaca is lame.  I needed to go to school somewhere more than 20 minutes from my house or I would've gone crazy, that's probably the biggest reason for not even trying to go to Cornell.  Why does it matter though?  If you're happy at Cornell, fine.  I'm happy at Clarkson.  It's great up here as long as you avoid townies.  If I hadn't worked at Wegmans in Ithaca for when all you Cornellians come back and seen it first hand, I might believe that Ithaca is better when you avoid townies.  Instead, I know Ithaca is much better in the summer.  I know that I'm stereotyping, and I'm sure this probably doesn't apply to you, but most of the Cornell students come through with credit cards their parents pay off and buy the dumbest things known to man, and are extremely rude to me and others while doing it, so whatever.  Back to talking about hockey fans.

That's cool, something I didn't know about the Ivies.  I'm sure there's a lot more, but the league IV belief seems to be pretty common to those who haven't studied at one of the Ivy League schools.

Personally, I love the development of this thread.  The rivalry really shows through at some points, but it also shows that we CAN coexist and we don't (at least not all the time) hate each other.

Ditto on the ithaca is better in the summer comment. I live in dryden. Ithaca has been miserable during the school year for along time. Traffic is worse... especially on the first snowy day. Seems pampered students from warmer climates have no clue how to go slow on icy roads. and nothing like putting groceries in a BMW that some spoiled student is driving on rich mommie and daddies dime when I am working for minimum wage driving a beat up ford.

As someone who wanted to go to school outside of NYC even though I grew up there and absolutely love the place (my Dad wanted me to go to Columbia) I can completely understand why you would want to get the heck out of Dodge for college, even if Ithaca wasn't lame.

For the record, Cornell doesn't require an admissions interview so I'm not sure how much effect convincing them in the interview would have.  An alum called me to schedule an interview my senior year in high school and I told the person that I didn't want to have one.  Nine years later I finally left campus...

[Q]JFK35 Wrote:  Well I agree with the fellow Clarkson posts up here so far. I also think that our pepband has done everything in our power to try and make things better. But I need to make one point very well known. It's not a huge problem of spirit, it's a problem of numbers. Cornell has about twice as many if not more regular fans than we do, and it definetly shows. I would bet money that if Clarkson and cornell each had the same number of fans, and their regular pep band, we would be better. Disagree if you want to, but I think it's a pretty valid point. [/q]Cute username. Ahsk not what your team can do for you ...

Let's get this right: Cornell has twice as many, maybe more, fans than Clarkson. And Cornell has a better pep band. But if Clarkson had those extra fans (ignoring for a moment the last 836 of them would have to stand outside Cheel Arena and wait for someone to pass along the game scores), and if it had use of Cornell's pep band or something equivalent, Clarkson would be in better shape than Cornell.

Actually, there's another similarity, heading into round one of the ECAC playoffs: This weekend, both Cheel and Lynah are dark.

Then there's this difference: When caps land on the ice at Lynah, it's to honor Matt Moulson's three goals. This is called a hat trick. We don't get many of them, but we still seem to win. Up in Clarkson-land, when a hat lands on the ice, the players check inside the sweatband to see if there's bail money.

BTW, how many posts were there today on eCheel.com?

OK, we'll give you this one: The Clarkson goal cam is pretty neat. Cornell seems to actively discourage good pictures - sorry, good Cornell-official pictures - from circulating.

[Q]daredevilcu Wrote: I know that I'm stereotyping, and I'm sure this probably doesn't apply to you, but most of the Cornell students come through with credit cards their parents pay off and buy the dumbest things known to man, and are extremely rude to me and others while doing it, so whatever.[/q]If we had contact, most eLynah fans would never be rude to you. But then, we pump our own.

How many times does Cornell's band practice per week?  For how long?  How many cheers are started by the band at Lynah?  Bottom line is, your band was weak for cheers without the Lynah Faithful.  They apparently attempted a "Clarkson.... SUCKS" chant that I never heard, and although I will give them credit for being original and yelling "Disco Tech" - it was garbled and quiet.  Clarkson's band starts nearly every cheer at Cheel and is the life of the student section.  I wish we didn't have to be, even though it's fun doing it.

There's no eCheel.com -- but we do post on other message boards about the hockey team.  Sadly (somewhat), they're not accessible to Cornell students.  It's moderately sad because I can see how much conversation has been drummed up on this board by our posts.  I can only imagine the same thing would happen if the board we use were accessible to you.

To fill Lynah completely with students (4,000 approx) would take maybe 1/3 of Cornell's enrollment.  To fill Cheel completely (4,000 approx) would take all 3500 students including grad students, plus 500 more faculty and townies.  He's saying if Clarkson were the same size school as Cornell, it's much more likely we'd have a bigger fan base.  How can you argue with that?

When caps landed on Cheel ice, it was to honor a Latulippe hat trick earlier this season against Dartmouth.

Which is why I said this probably doesn't apply to you -- and I meant you as in hockey fans.  I never got into hockey until I got to Clarkson, and it seems that hockey fans are some of the most down-to-earth, polite, and sensible people when you get them away from the rink.  Once they get near that ice though... watch out.

...as is the belief at about forty-seven different colleges and universities of varying caliber that they were once "invited" to join the Ivy League and "declined."

Beeeej

You have been good sports about this even though it's humbling. But that is good practice for later in life if -- sorry, when (little slip of the keys) -- you find employment.

-shrug-  If you wanna turn this into a personal attack, go back a few posts.  Down here we're talking hockey fans, not job placement rates.  If you wanna talk about that go back to where we were having the other stupid hypothetical discussion over whether or not I would've gotten into Cornell had I applied.  It'll just end up being another one of those if you wanna go there.  

Did you not get accepted to Clarkson or something?  Is that why you're bitter?  Or do you hate most aspects of Cornell (not hockey) and are transferring that hate towards Clarkson?

Personally, I think Cornell is great... for me to poop on!
I kid... I kid...

[Q]daredevilcu Wrote:

 -shrug-  If you wanna turn this into a personal attack, go back a few posts.  Down here we're talking hockey fans, not job placement rates.  If you wanna talk about that go back to where we were having the other stupid hypothetical discussion over whether or not I would've gotten into Cornell had I applied.  It'll just end up being another one of those if you wanna go there.  

Did you not get accepted to Clarkson or something?  Is that why you're bitter?  Or do you hate most aspects of Cornell (not hockey) and are transferring that hate towards Clarkson?

Personally, I think Cornell is great... for me to poop on!
I kid... I kid...[/q]

eh....that's just bill.  I really wouldn't get too offended by what he says.  The more you respond, the more he'll write is all.

Actually a few of us here have a GREAT history with Clarkson people.  Current students weren't around back then (and alumni slow to get into our online communities), but in the mid-90s there were some wonderful Clarkson-Cornell interactions.  Several of us here used to frequent the original "Clarkson Hockey Roundtable," which was a running (1-thread) bulletin board.  We met some really cool (and some interesting) people that way.  Personally, I was in the Cornell band, and because a close friend of mine from high school was in the Clarkson band, I got to know many in the Clarkson band.  There were some really legendary parties in Ithaca and Potsdam with both bands in attendance.  Hooo...I could tell some stories.  Basically, from staying up until 5 am talking hockey every NC roadtrip I learned that when it comes down to it, we're all the same fans.  We just wear different colors.

And to relate to earlier comments about the size/quality of fans:  In the early '90s, Clarkson was IT.  Great teams, great fans, great band.  They filled Cheel easily (except for the QF round of the playoffs when the students were forced to buy tickets...then they stayed home.)  Meanwhile, Lynah wasn't full.  It was still loud, but not full.  The back-and-forth crowd chant-wars between the two schools were so incredibly entertaining.  As were the online discussions.  There are those of us here who are just waiting (and/or dreading) for Clarkson to get back to being a league powerhouse.

And since we're talking admissions...I had a tough time deciding between Cornell and Clarkson myself.  (It was easy to dismiss RPI as an option, though).  

Good to see some more Clarkson people post here.  I hope you guys come back more often.  

[Q]RichH Wrote:

Actually a few of us here have a GREAT history with Clarkson people.  Current students weren't around back then (and alumni slow to get into our online communities), but in the mid-90s there were some wonderful Clarkson-Cornell interactions.  Several of us here used to frequent the original "Clarkson Hockey Roundtable," which was a running (1-thread) bulletin board.  We met some really cool (and some interesting) people that way.[/q]

Also, the precursor to the current IRC Lynah Chat was a Java chat application Kyle Rose wrote as a companion the old Cornell Hockey Discussion Forum.  That chat program had special color-coding hard-wired into it for not only the #cornell channel, but also the #clarkson channel.

Oh, and for that matter, the reason my username has "cornell" in it is that it's the same username I use at USCHO, which comes from a later incarnation of the Roundtable, which in turn comes from signing my posts "JTW, Cornell '91" on the original Roundtable.  Good times.

[Q]Personally, I was in the Cornell band, and because a close friend of mine from high school was in the Clarkson band, I got to know many in the Clarkson band. There were some really legendary parties in Ithaca and Potsdam with both bands in attendance. Hooo...I could tell some stories.[/Q]

I would love to see it come back -- rivalries are even more fun when you're friends after the game.  Since we (Clarkson and Cornell) both seem to be hating as of late, 4 years ago Brown became the Clarkson band's yearly party buddies, probably due to the abundance and lack of girls in each respective school and some other circumstances.  It's always a good time partying with them and I don't see any reason it would be different with any other band in the ECAC (except RPI's Grandmaster Chess band and the Harvard Philharmonic).

[Q](It was easy to dismiss RPI as an option, though). [/Q]

That it was, that it was.  Troy is quite the shithole.  Although one of my friends goes to Russell Sage and I would've had an in to the all-girls college...

[Q]daredevilcu Wrote:

 How many times does Cornell's band practice per week?  For how long?  How many cheers are started by the band at Lynah?  Bottom line is, your band was weak for cheers without the Lynah Faithful. [/q]

Usually rehearsals are scheduled every 1-2 weeks, and attendance varies.  IIRC, rehearsals usually ran about an hour.  The Pep Band also plays at many other athletic contests throughout the year...soccer, lightweight football, lacrosse, basketball, volleyball...I think they even went to the "Head of the Charles" crew event one year.  There are only a certain number of hockey tickets available each game for the band, so in order to get in to hockey games, a priority point system is used.  The more events you show up for (including rehearsals), the more priority points you get --> the better chance you'll have to get into Lynah and go on roadtrips.  (Hey, I never had to shell out for season tickets or deal with whatever mess the hockey line turned out to be)

As far as cheers go, the band members basically act like any other student fans.  (Except they are strictly self-policed against any vulgarities...Athletics is sending them in some official capacity).  There are a lot of songs they play that the fans have developed one way or another into cheers: Screw BU, Hey Baby, William Tell Overture, Swanee...etc.

The fans basically have a give-and-take relationship with the band.  When the fans are down, the band can pick them up...when the band is thin or weak, the fans can help them out too.  On roadtrips, the band's location is often a central rallying place for Cornell fans.  More often than not, they get complimented by opposing fans.  The ultimate compliment was paid by the Clarkson band several years ago with an accusatory "mus-ic ma-jors!" chant.  At the time, there were a total of two music majors in the band.

I didn't make it to Cheel, but I thought the Clarkson band sounded the best it has in a few years when they came to Lynah this year.  It also helps that the Lynah staff didn't stick you in a postage stamp-size space of 2 rows right up against the glass like they have in the past.

[Q]The ultimate compliment was paid by the Clarkson band several years ago with an accusatory "mus-ic ma-jors!" chant. At the time, there were a total of two music majors in the band.

I didn't make it to Cheel, but I thought the Clarkson band sounded the best it has in a few years when they came to Lynah this year. It also helps that the Lynah staff didn't stick you in a postage stamp-size space of 2 rows right up against the glass like they have in the past.[/Q]

We chanted that last year, after they decided to call us band camp rejects.  I believe it was also followed up with an intentionally garbled "we're not sober" so as not to get kicked out by the most inhospitable arena staff I've ever seen.  Seriously, they're the worst part about Lynah, not the fans.  This year, however, was much better, although they still didn't give us the back row.  That would just make things so much easier...

From what I gather, 2002-2003 were a weak 2 years for the Clarkson band.  The last two years has seen a huge jump in popularity, bringing in about 10 kids from each the freshmen and sophomore classes this year.  Those 20 kids are also all fairly hardcore bandies which makes me happy to think what my next two years will be like with the band.

[Q]daredevilcu Wrote:Did you not get accepted to Clarkson or something?  Is that why you're bitter?  Or do you hate most aspects of Cornell (not hockey) and are transferring that hate towards Clarkson?[/q]To get rejected from Clarkson, Dr. F., one has to have decided to apply there. The Clarkson catalog sitting in what passed for our high school's guidance office, on the cover, had this picture, and you tell me if you think this image was Clarkson-typical: Sun shining, trees in full bloom, two women (good looking) in short sleeves and one guy (also good looking) talking amiably as they stroll across campus. Even at that tender age and not knowing the term yet, I wondered if I was seeing deceptive advertising.

Why should I hate Cornell? It gave me a degree in just four years and I continue to think of that as nothing short of amazing given the sum of my life skills is the inverted pyramid writing form. Of course, that was in the arts college, where writing what's on your mind got you a B+ much of the time. My fraternity brother engineers had to actually work for their grades. Which seems only right: capitalism is better than marxism but when you're an undergrad you can argue both sides of the coin especially if your TA's beliefs shade one way or the other; but the breaking point of reinforced concrete, give or take the margin-of-error fudge factors, that really only has one correct answer, and I want to make sure the multi-story garage I'm parking in was built by people who calculated correctly by engineers and architects since the rebar was laid and concrete poured no doubt by the lowest bidder.

Ugh.  As an engineer, I sincerely hope that the edifices of our government, health-care system, scientific research, arts, non-profits, et. al. are at least as well constructed as our parking garages...

:-D

[Q]billhoward Wrote:

 [Q2]daredevilcu Wrote:Did you not get accepted to Clarkson or something?  Is that why you're bitter?  Or do you hate most aspects of Cornell (not hockey) and are transferring that hate towards Clarkson?[/Q]
To get rejected from Clarkson, Dr. F., one has to have decided to apply there. The Clarkson catalog sitting in what passed for our high school's guidance office, on the cover, had this picture, and you tell me if you think this image was Clarkson-typical: Sun shining, trees in full bloom, two women (good looking) in short sleeves and one guy (also good looking) talking amiably as they stroll across campus. Even at that tender age and not knowing the term yet, I wondered if I was seeing deceptive advertising. [/q]

I remember sitting around the Cornell Lunatic office in the late '80s and thumbing through the Cornell catalog when someone mentioned that there were more girls than guys in each of the pictures. So we actually started counting the people in every picture and keeping track. In something like 22 of the 24 pictures there were precisely 2 girls for every guy. Not 4:1 or 5:2 but exactly 2:1. It had to have been a directive to whomever put the publications together.

After that "Cornell: 2 girls to every guy!" became an inside joke.

[Q]daredevilcu Wrote:
[Q2](It was easy to dismiss RPI as an option, though). [/Q]
That it was, that it was.  Troy is quite the shithole.  Although one of my friends goes to Russell Sage and I would've had an in to the all-girls college...[/q]

Of course RPI and Troy are a shithole, Affectionately known at Clarkson as  "Troylet";-)

Credit where it's due: Clarkson's band sounds good this year. They've got the tightest percussion section in the ECAC, and also the biggest. Big enough that it drowns out most of the rest of the instruments, but I guess you flaunt what you've got. Maybe it's just as well, since their arrangements are kept simple and the ranges easy. In the end, it's nothing flashy, but it holds up quite well. They're still never forgiven for the electric bass. Never.

RPI is safety in numbers. When your band is the size of a medium-sized liberal arts school, mediocrity wins out. They tend to play the same or very similar arrangements to Cornell's band, so they have that going for them, but my only sample this year was the game over break where they had about 11 people. They sounded horrible.

Yale either has some prolific arrangers or a good line on sheet music. They may not be that great, but it's always amusing to hear what they've got in their repertoire. At least I think they're down to one Britney song per game. They seem to be well-supported by the school and faculty, which would be nice to see at Cornell for a change.

Brown... Brown has the skating thing going for them, I guess.

Vermont need not apply. A townie band with a drum kit. Bah. Go to HEA.

Colgate's band is fairly small and has never sounded noteworthy. They seemed particularly off this year.

Princeton's band hasn't been able to tear itself away from squeakball for so many years, I forgot what they sound like. Actually, if memory serves, they're decent, but it's hard to hear over their loud... uniforms.

Harvard's pep band used to be a joke, when it even bothered to show, and even then, rarely on time. They've gotten a whole lot better over the last few years, up to about the Yale level. I'm just not sure who they're playing to for half and hour after the game ends. Cornell fans, near as I can figure.

As for Cornell, don't get me wrong. I really appreciate the band. And this has nothing to do with Macho Man. They have, however, been on a bit of a downward trend the last few years. There hasn't been a very strong solo trumpet since Chris Orelup. The middle brass is thin and often, well, poor. But I think my biggest issue lately has been percussion. The percussion section is small, but still the most audible. However, they often seem to think they should be conducting and are completely off doing their own thing. There's rarely someone on bass drum who actually knows the songs. At Clarkson, I actually watched the conductor walk up and remind the guy he was supposed to be playing. He later discovered you can't play the bass drum while talking on a cell phone. Maybe I was spoiled by the band in the late 90's. Hopefully it's just cyclical. And the band certainly has nights when they sound like the best band in the ECAC. But there are other nights... I know the band gets almost no support. I literally watched instruments fall apart at Colgate. I guess I just don't like seeing other schools do it better.

You're right, you are hypocritical.

In terms of qualifying for the NCAA field, the playoff championship is more significant, although as I pointed out, at one time they were equal.  But minimizing winning the RS championship disrespects the efforts made by players and coaches over the long haul of the season.  Have you ever played or coached a team in a similar set up?  If so, I imagine you'd feel differently.

It was all to convenient for many people here to trash Clarkson's winning the RS and not the plaoff crown, having nothing to do with their poor performance in the NCAAs.  On that point, as I said at the time, if Clarkson were such a poor team, where were all the other ECAC teams and why weren't they there to do better?

cornell has done better in recent years as did Slt Lawrence one year and that's great for the league but you guys insist on beating a dead horse.  Focus on supporting your team and stop the childish bashing of others.

If I interpret your statement correctly, I imagine Schafer and his boys pissed in the Cleary Cup?  ::rolleyes::   And grow up and get over your hate for Cleary.  It's really getting old and pathetic.

How's that?  Check your history.

Except for the past three years Clarkson hasn't been in "never-neverland" since 1974.   Oh, and they did awaken last year long enough to defeat the high and mighty red at Lynah, no less and get to the finals in Albany.  But I'm sure you guys have conveniently forgotten that, as if it "Albany" did not exist since you weren't there.

Your "gracious loser" comment is one of the dumber things I've ever read.

[Q]CowbellGuy Wrote:

The middle brass is thin and often, well, poor.[/q]

Maybe this is because SAFC refuses to believe trombones are necessary. :-D

[Q]CowbellGuy Wrote:
As for Cornell, don't get me wrong. I really appreciate the band. And this has nothing to do with Macho Man. They have, however, been on a bit of a downward trend the last few years. There hasn't been a very strong solo trumpet since Chris Orelup. The middle brass is thin and often, well, poor. But I think my biggest issue lately has been percussion. The percussion section is small, but still the most audible. However, they often seem to think they should be conducting and are completely off doing their own thing. There's rarely someone on bass drum who actually knows the songs. At Clarkson, I actually watched the conductor walk up and remind the guy he was supposed to be playing. He later discovered you can't play the bass drum while talking on a cell phone. Maybe I was spoiled by the band in the late 90's. Hopefully it's just cyclical. And the band certainly has nights when they sound like the best band in the ECAC. But there are other nights... I know the band gets almost no support. I literally watched instruments fall apart at Colgate. I guess I just don't like seeing other schools do it better.[/q]
The quality of the hockey band at SLU and Clarkson was down because half of the band was playing for the worthy cause of the Penn and Princeton basketball games (not to mention the various other commitments that happened to coincide on that particular weekend--jazz concerts, rock gigs... chorale concert?!), so instrumentation was particularly thin.  The conductor that weekend is a lead trumpet, so having him up front hurts already.  At SLU we had one percussionist simultaneously playing snare, bass, and two suspended cymbals.  At Clarkson we had a clarinet player on bass drum and a rotation of five conductors so that they could alternate playing their instruments and contribute to the band sound.  I put out the best band I could with what I was given.

Of course, thin instrumentation stems from a bigger problem.  We don't have the numbers we used to, because for some reason enthusiasm for the pep band has dropped in the past two years.  When I was a freshman, you had to claw your way to the top of the pile for hockey tickets.  Then the next year, attendance suddenly dropped.  The '07 freshmen weren't into it and the '06 sophomore class, while well represented in pep band, inexplicably shrunk to about 1/4 its original size.  Now, we have very few current pepband members from the class of 2007, and I'm often left with extra tickets to give to band alum as a result.  Some members of last year's pep band leadership are partially to blame, but it's also the result of having a strange concentration of anti-athletics types in the '07 class.  I can't force people to want to play for hockey, and many of them simply don't enjoy it for reasons that have nothing to do with the band or the crowd.

Fortunately, we have a new '08 freshman class that is by and large very excited about the hockey team... I get emails asking for links to polls and press all the time, they like the crazy solo ranting that some fans will do in the stands, and they want to be a part of the tradition of Cornell hockey.  That bodes well for the future of the pep band, because their enthusiasm will generate enthusiasm in future classes.  I'm optimistic.

-Lauren Forconi '06
2005 Pep Band Manager

[Q]billhoward Wrote:

 
There ought to be a pairwise comarisons chart for all colleges showing who got in where and who enrolled where. Harvard and Princeton probably don't lose many PWCs. We win some, we lose some (but look at our strength of schedule), because for a lot of people it's where we wanted to go (really!), for some it's a safety school (right), for some it's a reach school.

But seriously for a minute: Do the Ivies at least among themselves share information about who's jointly admitted (eg to Cornell and Brown and Yale) so they can internally track who went where? That would be an intriguing free-market counterpoint to the U.S. News kinds of rankings the colleges decry (especially in years when they slip). [/q]

Strange you should ask:

See the National Bureau of Economic Analyis report - Avery, Glickman, Hoxby, Metrick (2004). "A Revealed Preference Ranking OF U.S. Colleges and Universities."

Link to the abstract here:

http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=601105

and click on the appropriate button to download the report.

Also, an interesting piece on the longterm outcomes of attending elite schools:

http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/200410/easterbrook

[Q]Credit where it's due: Clarkson's band sounds good this year. They've got the tightest percussion section in the ECAC, and also the biggest. Big enough that it drowns out most of the rest of the instruments, but I guess you flaunt what you've got. [/Q]

Thanks for that -- what makes it even better is that our drummers never have any music, and make up the parts for every song we have.  What happened with the electric bass?

RPI - Weak at best.  We were there for Black Friday at RPI last semester, and even with limited instruments, we outplayed them easily.  There's an article in the polytechnic if you want to read it... http://www.poly.rpi.edu/article_view.php3?view=3479&part=1

UVM - Weak.  Their hired director was a complete ass, and they were all playing into microphones.  We didn't bring a full band with us (5 or 6 instruments) and thus sounded awful but UVM was still lame.

Harvard - Too musically inclined.  Care too much about sounding musical with dynamics and stuff, and not enough about what's going on on the ice, it seems.

Colgate - Weak at best.  Lack of numbers, lack of talent, and they're the only band I've ever heard actually warm up with scales before the game.  Lame as hell.

Cornell - Good, but without the Lynah fans they are much less impressive.  Interesting music selections, but once again (when I've been there at least) seem to care about sounding musical more than what's happening on the ice.

Brown - The best place to visit in the ECAC.  So much fun, all their band members are wicked nice people, and you're not ripped on by the arena staff if you go talk to them en masse.  The only band we cooperate with and actually play a song (25 or 6 to 4) together since we have the same arrangement.  The skating thing's cool, pretty funny actually.

Yale and Princeton I have never seen.

[Q]CowbellGuy Wrote:
Yale either has some prolific arrangers or a good line on sheet music. They may not be that great, but it's always amusing to hear what they've got in their repertoire. At least I think they're down to one Britney song per game. They seem to be well-supported by the school and faculty, which would be nice to see at Cornell for a change.
[/q]

I strongly suspect Tom Duffy (http://www.yale.edu/yaleband/duffy.html) deserves some of the credit. He's the Deputy Dean of the School of Music and the Director of Bands at Yale. (Note: that includes the Concert Band and Jazz Ensemble, as well as the Marching Band.)  Ironically, Tom earned his DMA at Cornell with Husa and Stucky. He also happens to be my advisor's (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Search&db=PubMed&term=duffy+vb) husband.

But Age is right on about support: Yale has a faculty member in charge of the bands while the Cornell band can't get money to repair trombones. So even if Tom never even sees a single arrangement, having that level of support has got to help.



 

[q]And grow up and get over your hate for Cleary. It's really getting old and pathetic.[/q]

Cleary has never asked for, nor deserved, our forgiveness for what we hate him for.  Cleary is old and pathetic.  That having been said, I don't really think of him often enough, and it doesn't bother me enough, for it to be something I need to "get over."  Why stop calling it the Cleary Bedpan/Pisspot/Jell-O Mold when it's still funny to me?

Beeeej

No problem with Cleary, here.  He's been a fierce and outspoken pro-ECAC and pro-Ivy presence at a high level in college hockey.  Indeed, he and Laing Kennedy have been the only such among The People Who Matter in hockey for the last 20 years.  We need all the proponents we can get of academic-athletics where the hyphenated terms are in the correct order.

OTOH, Harvard still sucks.

[Q]Trotsky Wrote:
He's been a fierce and outspoken pro-ECAC and pro-Ivy presence at a high level in college hockey.  Indeed, he and Laing Kennedy have been the only such among The People Who Matter in hockey for the last 20 years.  We need all the proponents we can get of academic-athletics where the hyphenated terms are in the correct order.[/q]

I don't dispute a single thing you said, and I agree it's great to have him in "our" corner in that sense.  I think he was also a great player in his day, and obviously a good coach.  But that doesn't mean he's not an arrogant ass, or that he didn't, in his petulant last public act as Hahvahd's head coach, treat Cornell about as shabbily as we've ever been treated.

Beeeej

I don't think Ned rates high on the modesty scale either... ;-)

[Q]daredevilcu Wrote:

 [Q2]Credit where it's due: Clarkson's band sounds good this year. They've got the tightest percussion section in the ECAC, and also the biggest. Big enough that it drowns out most of the rest of the instruments, but I guess you flaunt what you've got. [/Q]
Thanks for that -- what makes it even better is that our drummers never have any music, and make up the parts for every song we have.[/q]
I don't believe for a minute that the Conga drum solo was made up on the fly... it did sound great, though.

[q]RPI - Weak at best.  We were there for Black Friday at RPI last semester, and even with limited instruments, we outplayed them easily.  There's an article in the polytechnic if you want to read it... [/q]
RPI is weak, I agree, but they also suffer from poor placement in their rink.  They're all by themselves at one end, below glass level on a podium.  That suggests to me that their rink manager/AD/fandom/whatever don't respect them enough to help them out and give them good placement.

[q]Harvard - Too musically inclined.  Care too much about sounding musical with dynamics and stuff, and not enough about what's going on on the ice, it seems.[/q]
You're in the Clarkson band and you said that?  I find it disturbing/amusing that you consider this a put-down.  Are you guys a band or an inept cheering section with noisemakers?  I guess when Cheel has pre-recorded jock james piped in before the game, you don't really feel the need to sound good.

Oh wait, I get it.  That ridiculous train whistle right above your section has destroyed your hearing, and now you can only play at one level because you can't hear anything else.  Pity. :-D

[q]Colgate - Weak at best.  Lack of numbers, lack of talent, and they're the only band I've ever heard actually warm up with scales before the game.  Lame as hell.[/q]
Pattern developing... sounding good (or in Colgate's case attempting to sound good via traditional warm-up routines) = lame according to Clarkson band philosophy.  Hmm.

[q]Cornell - Good, but without the Lynah fans they are much less impressive.  Interesting music selections, but once again (when I've been there at least) seem to care about sounding musical more than what's happening on the ice.[/q]
Thank you?  I'm not sure which band you thought you saw in your rink last weekend, though.  We didn't sound terribly musical nor did we ignore the game.  The back few rows started several spontaneous on-ice related chants (not loud enough, fine) and responded in kind to jeers from the Clarkson band.  Selective memory?

[q]Brown - The best place to visit in the ECAC.  So much fun, all their band members are wicked nice people, and you're not ripped on by the arena staff if you go talk to them en masse.  The only band we cooperate with and actually play a song (25 or 6 to 4) together since we have the same arrangement.  The skating thing's cool, pretty funny actually.[/q]
Bah.  They haven't even bothered to have their band present at the last two games we attended out there (even Harvard had a full contingent), so I lose any respect I might have had for them.  The rink staff is very helpful, though.  Did your band discover the irritating little kids that like to grab instruments and throw things at you?

[q]Yale and Princeton I have never seen.[/q]
Yale is a fun group.  I don't think I've ever seen the Princeton band either, and from what I got out of the announcer's running boy last month, the rink staff doesn't like having them there anyway.

As for Clarkson.  I like you guys.  I like that when I went into Cheel to sort things out with the rink manager, whole packs of students shouted at me for daring to enter in my red Cornell jersey.  I like that your band really gets into what's going on (and tries to inspire the rest of your fans to do the same).  I don't like that your rink manager sends runners to give us a zillion different restrictions (no profanity, no entering other fan sections, no playing over the Clarkson band, no throwing things, etc) on pain of getting the band tossed, and yet lets you get away with the same sh*t they had only just warned us about.  I don't like that you continued to break the rule of not using noisemakers during play (drums and cowbell during chants) and didn't get penalized for it even after the referee complained to the rink manager and warned about incurring a bench minor.  It's unfair and it's frustrating.  I still blame the train whistle for rendering you insensate.

And by the way, don't forget that when you came to Lynah this year, you maligned our poor backup goalie Louis Chabot with shouts of "You suck, McKee!" before the game.  And continued to do it even after I corrected you (there's that deafness again....).  Good job.

[Q]Beeeej Wrote:
I don't dispute a single thing you said, and I agree it's great to have him in "our" corner in that sense.  I think he was also a great player in his day, and obviously a good coach.  But that doesn't mean he's not an arrogant ass, or that he didn't, in his petulant last public act as Hahvahd's head coach, treat Cornell about as shabbily as we've ever been treated.

Beeeej[/q]

And this begs the question, for those of us who weren't around to see Cleary as a head coach, what exactly did he say?

...always willing to learn a little more Cornell hockey history :-P

[Q]Section A Banshee Wrote:
Fortunately, we have a new '08 freshman class that is by and large very excited about the hockey team... I get emails asking for links to polls and press all the time, they like the crazy solo ranting that some fans will do in the stands...[/q]Tell them it's my pleasure.  :-D

[Q]I don't believe for a minute that the Conga drum solo was made up on the fly... it did sound great, though. [/Q]

The tradeoff of measures and count off are the only prepared parts.  The snare solo and quad solo are completely improvised (but obviously we've practiced it and they do some things the same).  The point is -- they still made it up at some point, and without music.

[Q]The back few rows started several spontaneous on-ice related chants (not loud enough, fine) and responded in kind to jeers from the Clarkson band. Selective memory? [/Q]

Not selective memory, just literally couldn't hear you guys.

It's not that we don't care about sounding good.  When there's a need to be musical with dynamics (anthems) we do our best.  For the rest, they're fairly easy and it would only take effort to sound musical if it was the first time you picked up an instrument.  We try hard to fill the whole arena with sound, and we usually can accomplish that no matter where we are.  Read that article in the polytechnic, we were louder than RPI's band with fewer people.  Most of our songs are rock songs that don't really change dynamics anyway, it's a lot to do with our selections.  We're also a VERY top heavy band, so our low brass has to play their lips off just to be heard.

[Q]As for Clarkson. I like you guys. I like that when I went into Cheel to sort things out with the rink manager, whole packs of students shouted at me for daring to enter in my red Cornell jersey. I like that your band really gets into what's going on (and tries to inspire the rest of your fans to do the same). I don't like that your rink manager sends runners to give us a zillion different restrictions (no profanity, no entering other fan sections, no playing over the Clarkson band, no throwing things, etc) on pain of getting the band tossed, and yet lets you get away with the same sh*t they had only just warned us about. I don't like that you continued to break the rule of not using noisemakers during play (drums and cowbell during chants) and didn't get penalized for it even after the referee complained to the rink manager and warned about incurring a bench minor. It's unfair and it's frustrating. I still blame the train whistle for rendering you insensate. [/Q]

Hm... that sounds a lot like the Lynah staff.  Cornell does the same exact things, literally, as far as those restrictions go.  We didn't continue to break the rule--well, we might have done one or two cowbells because of some nameless drunken fools--but we did stop drumming during play.  Most referees allow us to get away with it, Kotyra included, especially at Cheel.  I think the main thing that was annoying is that long black horn-like instrument that one guy likes to use.  The rule on noisemakers is based on a decibel level, I'm pretty sure -- not all noisemakers are disallowed during play.

The train whistle is deafening, because we do sit right under it.  I have noticed slight hearing loss in my left ear (as sousaphone I stand on the far right).  Yeah, it was embarrassing to make fun of McKee and find out it was Chabot, but you know, I was in the bathroom when that happened or something because I didn't even know about it until long after the game.  

As for the pre-recorded "jock jams" we somehow managed to play the numa numa song and spotlight our Jolly Fat Kid cutting a rug, which he does before every game anyway.  That... you have to admit that was pretty hilarious.

If you don't like arrogance in a hockey coach, how about Schafer?  Oh I forgot, you have those carnellian tinted glasses. ::laugh::

[Q]RichS Wrote:
If I interpret your statement correctly, I imagine Schafer and his boys pissed in the Cleary Cup?[/q]

G-d I hope so. :-D

Schafer certainly kept the celebration to a minimum when SHagwell first brought the Cup to Ithaca in 2002.  He nearly made Baby give it back.  In the middle of this, Arthur announced that other results that night clinched the Ivy League title, which we weren't supposed to care too much about, for Cornell, and everyone who'd been sitting on their hands during the Cleary ceremony cheered.

Any particular examples, Rich?  Or just blowing smoke?  And ranting about bad refs doesn't count, they all do that.

Beeeej

[Q]daredevilcu Wrote:
Harvard - Too musically inclined.  Care too much about sounding musical with dynamics and stuff, and not enough about what's going on on the ice, it seems.
[/q]

Yeah, at Lynah East their biggest problem was that a lot of their arrangements seemed to involve playing quietly for a big part of the song.  It's a hockey rink, people, not a concert hall!

[Q]Liz '05 Wrote:
 [Q2]Beeeej Wrote:
I don't dispute a single thing you said, and I agree it's great to have him in "our" corner in that sense.  I think he was also a great player in his day, and obviously a good coach.  But that doesn't mean he's not an arrogant ass, or that he didn't, in his petulant last public act as Hahvahd's head coach, treat Cornell about as shabbily as we've ever been treated.
[/Q]
And this begs the question, for those of us who weren't around to see Cleary as a head coach, what exactly did he say?[/q]

Cleary's Hahvahd team won the 1989 national championship in an incredible OT win over Minnesota.  They'd had a great season, and he deserved every accolade he got for it.

In 1990, they didn't do quite as well.  Their path to the ECACs in Boston was through Cornell that year, and they came to Lynah for the QFs.  Cornell swept them 6-2, 4-2, and Cleary - who in his frustration had spent the two games getting increasingly abusive toward his own team - furiously demanded that they leave the ice at the end of the second game without shaking the Cornell team's hands.

Naturally, he then became Hahvahd's AD, because that's the kind of sportsman you want running things at a higher level.  ::rolleyes::

Beeeej

[Q]daredevilcu Wrote:
[Q2]As for Clarkson. I like you guys. I like that when I went into Cheel to sort things out with the rink manager, whole packs of students shouted at me for daring to enter in my red Cornell jersey. I like that your band really gets into what's going on (and tries to inspire the rest of your fans to do the same). I don't like that your rink manager sends runners to give us a zillion different restrictions (no profanity, no entering other fan sections, no playing over the Clarkson band, no throwing things, etc) on pain of getting the band tossed, and yet lets you get away with the same sh*t they had only just warned us about. I don't like that you continued to break the rule of not using noisemakers during play (drums and cowbell during chants) and didn't get penalized for it even after the referee complained to the rink manager and warned about incurring a bench minor. It's unfair and it's frustrating. I still blame the train whistle for rendering you insensate. [/Q]
Hm... that sounds a lot like the Lynah staff.  Cornell does the same exact things, literally, as far as those restrictions go. [/q]
Oh I know we have the same restrictions, but as far as I know they don't have a double standard for the bands the way Cheel seemed to at first.  In previous years we have had members of our band thrown out of our rink for using inappropriate language.

1. The Cornell band does not swear en masse, even at Lynah.  I have been known to let slip a few choice four-letter words when a shot goes across the crease, but we don't do organized chants involving them.  The student section surrounding us does, but they're not bound by the same restrictions the bands are as representatives of the university.
2. We have never banged drums during play at Lynah (I foolishly experimented with it at Cheel after you guys wouldn't stop doing it in the first period, but I regretted that decision instantaneously).
3. Okay, we throw newspapers before the game at Lynah, but we don't create a fire hazard by having a bunch of drunks hold up their cigarette lighters. :-D  

[q]We didn't continue to break the rule--well, we might have done one or two cowbells because of some nameless drunken fools--but we did stop drumming during play.  Most referees allow us to get away with it, Kotyra included, especially at Cheel.  I think the main thing that was annoying is that long black horn-like instrument that one guy likes to use.  The rule on noisemakers is based on a decibel level, I'm pretty sure -- not all noisemakers are disallowed during play.[/q]
I think the worst of it for me was that the rink manager insisted that we not play over you (nor you play over us) or bang drums during play because it might upset or be otherwise offensive to the older people in the crowd due to the noise level.  Yet you have that giant freaking train whistle that's five times as loud as both bands combined.  Are the old people immune to that?  I've never been a fan of playing over other bands anyway because it's inconsiderate, but that was a BS excuse.

Also, just a friendly suggestion, you might want to cut out the convention of having someone play Ab notes to start the "Let's Go Tech" cheer, because you can't hear the words over the notes and it just sounds like some tool playing Ab's.  Honest.  This was especially true during the QF's last season when nobody (or very few people) in section O was actually saying "Let's Go Tech" and it really WAS just some tool playing Ab's.

[q]The train whistle is deafening, because we do sit right under it.  I have noticed slight hearing loss in my left ear (as sousaphone I stand on the far right).  Yeah, it was embarrassing to make fun of McKee and find out it was Chabot, but you know, I was in the bathroom when that happened or something because I didn't even know about it until long after the game.  

As for the pre-recorded "jock jams" we somehow managed to play the numa numa song and spotlight our Jolly Fat Kid cutting a rug, which he does before every game anyway.  That... you have to admit that was pretty hilarious.[/q]
Oh yeah.  I think we had people cheering for him.

He was pretty public with is disdain for Morris and gave more than he got.  Trust me, I know Mark was no choir boy.

Then a couple of years ago, when Fred Parker, a true gentleman, coached his only game for Clarkson at Lynah, Schafer ranted and raved at him for no reason that anyone could tell.  It took place after the game as Parker approached the officials.  Schaefer just had to stick his nose in and start a ruckus.  Guess he didn't know how to win with some dignity that night.  His team was clearly better and he even benefitted from questionable officiating...so why make an ass of yourself?

Another that sticks in my mind is his whining on the selection show a couple of years ago about his seeding.   Really now, have ECAC teams ever gotten a break there?  And he thinks HIS team should be treated differently?

When he started at cornell, he was pretty respectful. But in recent years, he's become an example of "winning breeds arrogance".  I wholeheartedly respect his coaching skills and the passion his teams play with.  I dislike his arrogance and frequent lack of giving his opponents and other coaches the respect they have earned.  What goes around. comes around.  Perhaps, some day he will experience that.   I'm a coach too, albeit at a much lower level, but I'd never model my behavior after his.

[Q]RichS Wrote:blah blah blah.[/q]You are posting increasingly tedious nonsense, Rich. We don't care if Clarkson is proud of their team when they finish with the best regular season record. We are currently proud of our team for doing it this year. What we aren't going to do, however, is call ourselves ECAC Champions, because that is not how the championship is decided. "ECAC Regular Season Champions" is a misnomer. When you win a championship you don't need a modifier. The debate is essentially one of nomenclature. When Clarkson was busy screwing up the tournament, Roundtable posters were quick to glorify the regular season title as a "championship" and Cornell fans (myself included) were all too happy to remind you that you weren't champions of anything. We are still happy to perform that duty.

Final time:
Best record during regular season: Impressive accomplishment.
Winning tournament: ECAC Champion

[Q]RichS Wrote:blah Schafer blah.[/q]
You have [just, while I was posting this] given a [lame] reason for why Schafer is arrogant, or deports himself with less class than should be demanded of a public figure. If you want to stick a thumb in the eye of the man that rejuvenated this program, give us something [real]. [gratuitous swipe]He doesn't, for example, hit his players.[/gratuitous swipe]

[Q]RichS Wrote:
Then a couple of years ago, when Fred Parker, a true gentleman, coached his only game for Clarkson at Lynah, Schafer ranted and raved at him for no reason that anyone could tell.  It took place after the game as Parker approached the officials.  Schaefer just had to stick his nose in and start a ruckus.  Guess he didn't know how to win with some dignity that night.  His team was clearly better and he even benefitted from questionable officiating...so why make an ass of yourself?[/q]

Fair enough.  Do you actually know what he said, or are you just assuming?

[q]Another that sticks in my mind is his whining on the selection show a couple of years ago about his seeding.   Really now, have ECAC teams ever gotten a break there?  And he thinks HIS team should be treated differently?[/q]

Actually, I'll admit to having felt a little uncomfortable about that, myself.  I'd have preferred he bypass the issue by saying he knew his team had to win four games regardless of the opponent.  The country's first impression of him as the coach of a team with national stature probably shouldn't have been a complaint.  But really, Rich - how many ECAC teams, or teams period, have been the #1 overall seed and yet forced to play someone other than the annual patsy?  He wasn't expecting a "break" - we'd earned the right to play the worst team in the bracket, and they denied us that.

Beeeej

[Q]Schafer ranted and raved at him for no reason that anyone could tell.[/Q]

Sounds like you're just assuming that Schafer was at fault.  I don't know the situation, so I'm not saying he is or isn't.  But just because you couldn't tell what it was about, it must've been for no reason?  ::screwy::   Must be those piss-yellow tinted glasses.

Trotsky raises two good points (the second, Harvard sucks, being an axiom), that the world needs more people clamoring for student-athletes. It's unlikely it's going to happen, but there's always the hope that college sports will blow up so badly with say a football scandal at Miami (beyond the usual shootings, muggings, and girlfriends taking tests) or hoops at Kentucky ... and the college presidents decide athletes really do have to be students not just wink-wink attendees for four years. For that, Cleary deserves to be respected, even if he did coach Harvard.

Unlike you, apparently, I was there and heard the aftermath.  It was none of Schafer's business but I suppose since the game was on his home ice, he felt compelled to act like a jerk in front of his supportive fans.

Would have been nice had he at least shook Parker's hand however.

[Q]Trotsky Wrote:  I don't think Ned rates high on the modesty scale either...  [/q]Wasn't it Casey Stengel who said (wasn't Yogi; this makes too much sense), "If you can do it, it ain't braggin'."

[Q]billhoward Wrote:

 [Q2]Trotsky Wrote:  I don't think Ned rates high on the modesty scale either...  [/Q]
Wasn't it Casey Stengel who said (wasn't Yogi; this makes too much sense), "If you can do it, it ain't braggin'."

[/q]

Actually, it was Dizzy Dean.  Right sport, though. :-)

[Q]RichS Wrote:

 Unlike you, apparently, I was there and heard the aftermath.  It was none of Schafer's business but I suppose since the game was on his home ice, he felt compelled to act like a jerk in front of his supportive fans.[/q]So if I understand this correctly, Parker was bitching at the refs - presumably some accusation about non-calls against Cornell in Lynah - and when Schafer supports his team he is accused of sticking his nose in. Right?

[Q]RichS Wrote:

 He was pretty public with is disdain for Morris and gave more than he got.  Trust me, I know Mark was no choir boy.

Then a couple of years ago, when Fred Parker, a true gentleman, coached his only game for Clarkson at Lynah, Schafer ranted and raved at him for no reason that anyone could tell.  It took place after the game as Parker approached the officials.  Schaefer just had to stick his nose in and start a ruckus.  Guess he didn't know how to win with some dignity that night.  His team was clearly better and he even benefitted from questionable officiating...so why make an ass of yourself?

[/q]

If I remember correctly, that game ended with more than a little rough stuff (as Cornell v. Clarkson games tend to do)...so I'm sure emotions were running high on both sides.  For you to say that Schafer "just had to stick his nose in and start a ruckus" is well, asinine.  You have no idea what it was about or what was being said, or what led to it.  

[Q]Drew Wrote:
Of course RPI and Troy are a shithole, Affectionately known at Clarkson as  "Troylet" [/q] I have never heard even RichS use that word in that manner before. :-D To RPI students, at least in my day, a Troylet was a (usually young) female native of Troy. The term was especially used to refer to female Troy HS students by RPI freshmen.

[Q]ursaminor Wrote:

 [Q2]Drew Wrote:
Of course RPI and Troy are a shithole, Affectionately known at Clarkson as  "Troylet" [/Q]
I have never heard even RichS use that word in that manner before.  To RPI students, at least in my day, a Troylet was a (usually young) female native of Troy. The term was especially used to refer to female Troy HS students by RPI freshmen.[/q]

So, I guess that means that RPI Engineers can only do it with Troylets. :-D

Actually, I do have a pretty good idea what it was about having heard it first hand afterwards.  Your comments are "asinine", to use your word.

And yes, there was a game-ending ruckus which resulted from some rough stuff in the last few minutes and that contributed to the goings-on after the game ended.

The look on Parker's face said it all, he was stunned when Schafer got right in his face and let him have it.  Perhaps Schafer thought he was still dealing with Morris with whom there was no love lost.   LOL.

I watched him jump into the conversation Parker was having with an official.  That's not generally done as a coach, at any level, usually respects another coach's having his "time" talking with an official.  That' s the way it's supposed to be.

In this case, Schafer should have had nothing to beef about after that game, which he won, and the late game calls.

OK, RichS wants to fight??  Fine...I usually don't jump into fights very often.  


[Q]RichS Wrote:

In terms of qualifying for the NCAA field, the playoff championship is more significant, although as I pointed out, at one time they were equal.  [/Q]
Smart of you to qualify with your first eight words.  Overall, they were never equal.  I believed that in the '90s, and I believe it now.  Winning the tournament got you the Conference Championship.  Finishing first in the regular season got you the #1 seed in the tournament to eventually decide the Conference Championship.

[Q]But minimizing winning the RS championship disrespects the efforts made by players and coaches over the long haul of the season.  Have you ever played or coached a team in a similar set up?  If so, I imagine you'd feel differently.[/Q]
OK, fair enough.  I'll go by the reactions of the team and coaches when they were "awarded" this superfluous, made-up trophy for the first time to see what it really meant to them.  It was handled like it contained a virus.  Hagwell gave it to the captain, who immediately tried to give it to Schafer.  Schafer wouldn't touch it, so it was skated immediately over to the bench.  It wasn't passed around the team.  No arms were raised.  As a fan, I don't feel the least bit guilty minimizing that accomplishment if the team and coaches do the same.

Schafer makes the postseason a priority.

[Q]It was all to convenient for many people here to trash Clarkson's winning the RS and not the plaoff crown [/Q]
If by "trashing" you mean "correcting the use of the word 'Champion,'" it wasn't convenient, it was the truth.  I said it before, RichS...I refuse to be hypocritical about this point.  No matter how hard you try to get me to say that the regular season is more important now that Cornell is winning it, I won't do it.  The Whitelaw is the only cup I give a flip for.  It was true throughout the '90s, and it's true today.

If Cornell doesn't win in Albany (a very real possibility, given the strength of the top 5 teams), you can email me and scream at me that Cornell aren't ECAC Champions, because it'd be the truth.  The only Championship Cornell has won so far in 2005 is the Ivy League Championship.

[Q] at the time, if Clarkson were such a poor team, where were all the other ECAC teams and why weren't they there to do better?[/Q]
First, we never said those Clarkson teams were "poor," just that they weren't League Champions for finishing first in the regular season.  To answer your question...the years that Clarkson didn't win the League Championship, another team did.  And they WERE in the NCAAs like Clarkson was.

[Q]cornell has done better in recent years as did Slt Lawrence one year and that's great for the league but you guys insist on beating a dead horse.  [/Q]
Who brought up this topic again?  Oh right:
[Q]Posted by RichS on March 1, 2005

yeah, because cornell didn't win it...lol. Seems to have acquired a bit more meaning in more recent years. :-D[/Q]

[Q]Focus on supporting your team and stop the childish bashing of others.[/Q]
Hmmm....a sentence with the words "practice" and "preach" just jumped into my head.  Find me a post of mine here where I childishly bash you.  I've never even bashed or trashed Clarkson or any of their teams, past or present.  All I've spelled out my beliefs in a rational manner.

[Q]If I interpret your statement correctly, I imagine Schafer and his boys pissed in the Cleary Cup? [/Q]
I have no knowledge what the Cornell team did.  I'm using what's called a metaphor.

[Q] And grow up and get over your hate for Cleary.  It's really getting old and pathetic.[/q]
Grow up?  I really don't think any of this discussion has been childish.  You need to calm down when some of your rivals' fans disagree with you.

Hate for Cleary?  I don't think my posts show a hate for the human being known as Bill Cleary.  I've never met the man.  His coaching career ended before I even saw a college hockey game.  The only time I've even laid eyes on him was when he came out onto the ice in Lake Placid in 2002 to be honored by the league.  I applauded him and his dedication to his school and the league.  I have absolutely no hate for the man.  The only time I've used the word "Cleary" is when I refer to the cup that happens to bear his name.  I think the cup that bears his name is unnecessary and meaningless, and I would feel that way if it were named after Morris, Taylor, Noeth, Murphy, Gilligan, McCutcheon, Bertrand, Harkness, or Ezra Cornell himself.

[Q]RichS Wrote:
His team was clearly better and he even benefitted from questionable officiating...so why make an ass of yourself?[/q]One man's "questionable officiating" is another man's "Clarkson under Morris was often a dirty team".  *shrug*

[Q]RichS Wrote:

 Unlike you, apparently, I was there and heard the aftermath.  It was none of Schafer's business but I suppose since the game was on his home ice, he felt compelled to act like a jerk in front of his supportive fans.

Would have been nice had he at least shook Parker's hand however.[/q]
i believe you are refering to this game:
http://db.elynah.com/game.php?game=65
http://www.uscho.com/recaps/20022003/m/01/24/ckn-cor.php

[Calm rational tone]
IIRC, the end of that game was more than a bit heated (see box score) and Parker was slow to leave the ice. He was all over Fulton in the ref's crease at center ice so Schafer went over to get him to leave the ice (a custom of respect for the home team). when whatever exchange took place he got an earful from Schafer ... no one can say who's right and who's not (no one here was on the ice to hear what exactly was said) but it's safe to say neither coach was as professional as they should have been. [/Calm rational tone]

...nobody plays A flats to start the Lets Go Tech cheers... where on earth did you get that idea?

The Clarkson Band only swore en masse once all night, and it was because it was part of our version of your Alma Mater that we can't get away with at Lynah, so you never heard it.  The rest was student section.  I know you've never banged drums at Lynah, and that's fine.  We're able to get away with it in Cheel because its our home ice and we have done it for years.  I doubt that you would be penalized if you started doing that and did it for every cheer, all game.  Same deal, though -- get warned, stop.

There are a few cheers that a couple instruments play during play that are short (the price is wrong) which we can ONLY get away with at Cheel.  Drums, we've pulled other places.  Basically, as long as the instruments aren't so loud that the refs feel it could distract/disturb players, then you can get away with it.  No matter who you are, it's a judgement call by the officials anyway.

We also pretty much gave up on the lighters -- it doesn't go over that well except for being funny, people are stupid and burn their hands, and nowadays a lot of people wave cell phones instead of lighters anyway.


I got a kick out of you guys bringing newspapers to Cheel.  With half the arena doing that, the effect is cool.  With 20 people doing it, and throwing the papers into the net behind the goal... well basically it make you look stupid.  You would've looked even dumber had one reached the ice, though.

     I had to really laugh when I saw the sheet on this post.  I was sitting with a bunch of other alumni at the opposite end from the band and some old lady and her husband rooting for Clarkson sitting in front of me winced every time I yelled things like "Let's Go Red!".  She finally told me something to the effect that I was old enough (I am 32) that I didn't need to cheer so loudly and should act more reserved.  I was polite, but I thought of saying if they had alumni with pride in their school like us they might not have so many empty seats, let alone that it was a hockey game and not a golf tournament or a play.   Our whole section including some people in their 60's thought the lady was out of her mind.  I think the cheer sheet just goes to show what kind of fans they have right now and how great our fans really are.

Right...just like cornell under Schafer in the early years.

You root for a goon squad.  Get over it!

There's nothing for me to get over.  I've supported my team steadfastly for many years.

OTOH, your team is coached by a guy who was cheered with "Kill, Schafer, Kill".  So, who's the goon here?:-}

[Q]RichS Wrote:
Right...just like cornell under Schafer in the early years.[/q]That's a wonderful comeback.  Seems to me that it boils down to "No, you are!"

I think you may be spending too much time with your midgets and peewees, Rich, you're starting to sound like a fifth grader.

By the way, I've got a video clip of Ken Scuderi shooting a puck at Mike Schafer to back me up, along with statistics that say that Clarkson was penalized more than Cornell in each of Schafer's first three years (the "early years" you speak of), and in 7 the first 9 years of Schafer's tenure at Cornell, including an astronomical 710 penalty minutes (by far the most in the ECAC, and fully 200 more then Cornell) in Morris' last year as coach.  What do you have?  The rolleyes smiley?

[Q]RichS Wrote:

[Q2]jmh30 Wrote:

 [Q2]RichS Wrote:
His team was clearly better and he even benefitted from questionable officiating...so why make an ass of yourself?[/Q]
One man's "questionable officiating" is another man's "Clarkson under Morris was often a dirty team".  *shrug*[/q]
Right...just like cornell under Schafer in the early years.[/q] It was a slander then and it is a slander now.

A quick comparison of "dirty" Cornell (http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/teamseasons.php?tid=551) under Schafer vs. Clarkson (http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/teamseasons.php?tid=491):

Year     Cornell PIM    Clarkson PIM
95-96   792                937
96-97   ?                    ?
97-98   595                 747
98-99   569                 550
99-00   543                 518
00-01   417                 442
01-02   458                 663
02-03   499                 710

That was some year you put together under Gentleman Fred Parker.

Edit: Maybe I shouldn't use words like "slander" when the number 792 is sitting there, but at least "glass houses" seems appropriate.

[Q]jmh30 Wrote:I've got ... statistics that say that Clarkson was penalized more than Cornell in each of Schafer's first three years (the "early years" you speak of), and in 7 the first 9 years of Schafer's tenure at Cornell, including an astronomical 710 penalty minutes (by far the most in the ECAC, and fully 200 more then Cornell) in Morris' last year as coach.  What do you have?  The rolleyes smiley?[/q]Great minds think alike...

Okay, it was at least somewhat interesting when you were debating the value of the regular season vs. post season 'winners' (I'll avoid using "title" or "champion" to refer to them not too take a side - plus, we all know "Regular Season" doesn't deserve "Champion" after it ;-) ).

But now that we've gotten into a "who's team is goonier" debate, well, its not worth it. This is degrading into USCHO a little too much for my liking  ::help::

[enter BU and North Dakota fans]

:-D

[Q]RichS Wrote:

 There's nothing for me to get over.  I've supported my team steadfastly for many years.

OTOH, your team is coached by a guy who was cheered with "Kill, Schafer, Kill".  So, who's the goon here?[/q]

(http://www.john-hayes.com/misc/argue.jpg)

Cupcakes give you tummyaches!
::stupid::

You guys haven't been paying attention or rather, exercise selective memory.  I have said for several years that Clarkson has played "undisciplined" hockey, taking many dumb penalties, a lot in retaliation.

In Morris's best years they still took a lot of penalties but not the dumb kind plus they were at or near the top in special teams play, much as cornell has been in recent years.

Give it a rest with Parker.  Your comment borders on the moronic.  He was thrust into an untenable situation with no administrative support and a team clearly in turmoil and devoid of senior leadership.  Think of cornell in the McCutcheon years.

Slander?  Oh please...you don't recall all the other ECAC coaches that complained about cornell's style back then?

Slander?  Lik eyou guys lambasting Morris when you did not know and still do not know all the facts?

Give it a rest.   My Peewees and Bantams see things in a more objective way than you guys do.  One of you raised that "question" so there you go.  

[Q]DeltaOne81 Wrote:
But now that we've gotten into a "who's team is goonier" debate, well, its not worth it. This is degrading into USCHO a little too much for my liking   [/q]I didn't start the "goon" debate, but if someone is going to use the term he should look at his own squad first.

right, see how silly everyone can be?

Oh wow, you have the video of Scuderi...I dont recall Killer Schafer making an issue of it, so why do you so long after the fact ?

And of course, you interviewed Scuderi and he said.."yeah I intended to hit someone on the bench."


Get over your obsession.

Rich, you really have to chill out. It might be better for you not to contradict every sentence of yourself too.

You attack for him bringing up something so long ago, yet you were the one who brought up the "early days of Schafer" and Fred Parker (which was approximately equally long ago as the puck shooting incident.

You agree that the argument is stupid and silly, and then you continue it, and then say everyone else is obsessed.

I'm not here to help you win, or to bail you out (although you were getting you ass handed to you on the goonery/PIM stats).

You're free to make your points on here, although I wish we could get back to a more interesting discussion and that's my point.

But you may want to avoid bringing up things 8 years ago and then criticizing people who bring up something from 2 years ago because it was so far back. It completely destroys any chance at credibility.

ahhhhh ... RichS ... no interview needed. anyone of the 3836 in attendance can tell you he intended to hit someone[/U] on the Cornell bench. who???
we'll never know ... but you'd be a fool to  deny his intent.

[Q]ben03 Wrote:

 ahhhhh ... RichS ... no interview needed. anyone of the 3836 in attendance can tell you he intended to hit someone on the Cornell bench. who???
we'll never know ... but you'd be a fool to  deny his intent.[/q]
Since I'm not taking sides, that's not true. Its very deniable. Its always deniable. You could think it was just an accident. Afterall, people still think Clemens wasn't throwing neither the ball nor the broken bat at Piazza. Or, not to take sides in the Yanks/Sox thing here, that Pedro doesn't throw at people.

Its always deniable, and its not really the point anyway. Making a point on one instance to prove a generality isn't very hard proof. The PIM is much more convincing. Best stick to that anyway.

point taken ... B-]

Some Clarkson fan complains because a 32-year-old Cornell fan exclaims, "Let's go, Red!"? What's she gonna say if Clarkson ever gets a home-and-home series with Nebraska in football (club football?) and the Cornhusker fans pull up Thursday afternoon in the Bluebird motor homes (ever price one of those suckers?) and start partying for the next 72 hours. That's the fans for which one should reserve, "Grow up."

One of the nicest things is that Cornell hockey, especially road games, brings together three generations of Cornellians for a couple hours. And the old broad from along the St. Lawrence wants to destroy that very bond? Sheesh.

It's at 2229 views so far. I'm guessing 4,000 before this slugfest winds down. Cowbell Guy, you started it; if you were getting ad views on top of the pages, I'd think you had an ulterior motive. So it has to be pure altruism that you led you to scan and post this page.

[Q]RichS Wrote:
I dont recall Killer Schafer making an issue of it, so why do you so long after the fact ?[/q]He was probably just happy that he hadn't gotten hit in the head.  (That time, anyway.)

Stupid question and I asked this once before: If the hockey pep band also is the group that showed up for the Cornell @ Princeton lax game last year, the Cornell OT victory, you were outstanding there, too, especially in light of the absence of the Princeton Tiger dismounted, not marching band. Way to go.

Actually, I think the band is plenty loud enough at Lynah, but that's just aging ears. Love those Etymotics ear plugs.

That is one part tasteless and three parts funny. We should all (maybe even me) cool down.

[Q]billhoward Wrote:

 Stupid question and I asked this once before: If the hockey pep band also is the group that showed up for the Cornell @ Princeton lax game last year, the Cornell OT victory, you were outstanding there, too, especially in light of the absence of the Princeton Tiger dismounted, not marching band. Way to go.

Actually, I think the band is plenty loud enough at Lynah, but that's just aging ears. Love those Etymotics ear plugs. [/q]

Yeah, that was the pep band. That is one of my favorite memories of my time here.

The look on the Princeton fan base was hilarious, as was their assistant coach saying "keep those guys as far away from us as possible."

[Q]billhoward Wrote:

 That is one part tasteless and three parts funny. We should all (maybe even me) cool down. [/q]

It's my nuclear option.

I only pull it out when the situation really really calls for it.

Clarkson notes its regular season championships because one crows about what you've got.

RS championships (being nice here and not typing RS "championships") (9)
2000-01  Clarkson          
1998-99  Clarkson          
1996-97  Clarkson          
1994-95  Clarkson          
1990-91  Clarkson          
1981-82  Clarkson          
1980-81  Clarkson          
1976-77  Clarkson          
1965-66  Clarkson

ECAC tournament championships (4)      
1998-99  Clarkson  
1992-93  Clarkson  
1990-91  Clarkson  
1965-66  Clarkson  

In sporting circles, four playoff championships to show for the nine times you went in as top seed ... would be called a, er, what's that word when you have a fish bone caught in the throat?


With Cornell, its cup runneth over with ECAC tournament titles and the RS titles are nice secondary trinkets, as is the Ivy title (mostly it's nice to win the Ivies to make sure Harvard doesn't win it).  

ECAC RS titles (8)
2004-05 Cornell
2002-03  Cornell
2001-02  Cornell
1972-73  Cornell
1971-72  Cornell
1969-70  Cornell
1968-69  Cornell
1967-68  Cornell

Tournament titles (10 and counting)
2004-05 Cornell
2002-03 Cornell
1996-97 Cornell  
1995-96 Cornell  
1985-86 Cornell  
1979-80 Cornell  
1972-73 Cornell
1969-70 Cornell  
1968-69 Cornell  
1967-68 Cornell  
1966-67 Cornell

A Clarkson fan could point out it has had more ECAC players of the year, 7-5, than Cornell, although it's unlikely the margin will widen this year. In fact, it could well narrow to 7-6.


There's a saying that the French give out lots of medals because they don't win many wars. Same way, apparently, why one counts RS titles when there are post-season tournaments that decides who plays further.

[Q]billhoward Wrote:
Tournament titles (10 and counting)
2004-05 Cornell
[/q]
did i miss something here bill???  ::screwy::

[Q]ben03 Wrote:

 [Q2]billhoward Wrote:
Tournament titles (10 and counting)
2004-05 Cornell
[/Q]
did i miss something here bill???[/q]

Presumably that's the "and counting" portion.  It's also the kind of woofing that blows shut-outs if you believe in that sort of thing.  And even if you don't, [as polite as possible] knock it off [/as polite as possible]

Decorum prevents me from typing here what some "faithful" yelled at me a few years ago when I stood at Lynah and yelled "Lets Go Tech" a few times.

Not only from the adjoining section but also from the band across the ice.  It was clearly audible...and priceless to say the least.

Nah, just another example of red arrogance...as in "why bother showing up in Albany guys...you know we'll win the only games that matter".

Like you guys, I couldn't resist.

[Q]daredevilcu Wrote:
I got a kick out of you guys bringing newspapers to Cheel.  With half the arena doing that, the effect is cool.  With 20 people doing it, and throwing the papers into the net behind the goal... well basically it make you look stupid.  You would've looked even dumber had one reached the ice, though.[/q]

Hmm, we're supposed to throw them at each other on the road.  But I guess if they knew the net would catch them all.

We do the newspaper thing even when it's just six of us in Florida.  (Although we do try to pass out extra paper to the people around us.)  The hard part is remembering to bring a newspaper to the game on a road trip.

Well, at least MOST of the 3836 would say that, i.e., those being the home fans in attendance.   Does that make it fact?  Not a chance.

I'm recalling that in my 3 years of coaching HS hockey here in NJ, I must have ducked out of the way of four or five pucks that were flew over the bench and came towards me.  Did I think any one of those kids were aiming at me or anyone else on our bench?

Nope, I was just glad that this old goalie's eyes and reactions were both good enough to get out of the way.  Only someone with an inflated ego would have a first thought that he was the target of a player.

As noted, Schafer was probably glad he wasn't hit.  Which leaves you guys with the ego problem...:-D

[Q]RichS Wrote:  Decorum prevents me from typing here what some "faithful" yelled at me a few years ago when I stood at Lynah and yelled "Lets Go Tech" a few times. Not only from the adjoining section but also from the band across the ice.  It was clearly audible...and priceless to say the least. [/q]You say a fan wearing red, presumably a Cornell fan, said something that hurt your sense of self-esteem? That can be a bummer. One's sense of self-worth is so important and to have it trampled in a friendly sporting event ... [sigh].  I'm sure the collective eLynah community would like to extend its heartfelt regrets.

We're feeling a little down ourselves because our Big Red doesn't get to play this Friday and Saturday. Your team is so lucky to have games for its faithful to play.

My bad. I thought I took that extra championship line out before it was posted. Apologies for counting chickens not yet hatched. But still: After browsing the ECAC record book, you can see why Clarkson fans are so big on RS titles as a mark of accomplishment: they have lots of them and not so many tournament titles. That's a lot of heartbreak. That and going 0-for-3 in NCAA title games. Not that we've been there lately, ourselves.

hmmm....interesting, amusing.

I assure you that with a number of you firing at me about Clarkson hockey, my credibilty on this board is the last thing I'm concerned about.

At least one of you guys takes a pot shot at Parker and others bring up Morris and his teams, etc and someone else first uses the term "goon" on this thread and I'm responsible?

I only made reference to Schafer's "early years" after someone put Morris's era in play.

I think you may want to look into the mirror when you tell someone to "chill out."  I'd be happy to have a more "interesting discussion" as you suggest but nothing here suggests you guys are interested in same.  

The "obsessed" thing stems from the observation that at least some of you are still ticked off about the Scuderi incident (which Schafer never made an issue of, at least publically AFAIK) and still feel compelled to dump on Morris in general.   He's been gone over two years now, I'd think by now you'd be more interested in belittling George Roll.

I'm tired and have more rewarding writing to do...carry on.

Oh please...get over it Bill...it's not about my self-esteem at all.  If I were worried about being cursed at, would I have ever set foot in Lynah?

I feel sorry for supposed adults at ANY arena...Lynah, Cheel, etc.. who get bent out of shape because visiting fans have the temerity to cheer for their team.

I'm pretty thick-skinned so it didn't bother me.  I imagine that this faithful fan should have been embaressed that a simple "Lets Go Tech" caused him to almost have a stroke. And when cornell was winning, no less!

I feel bad you have nothing to do this weekend...what will you do?  Think back to what you did last year after, as someone on this thread said earlier, when cornell got "fish bones stuck in their throats" in the QF series.  You survived that, I'm sure you can make it through this weekend too.

[Q]billhoward Wrote:
Stupid question and I asked this once before: If the hockey pep band also is the group that showed up for the Cornell @ Princeton lax game last year, the Cornell OT victory, you were outstanding there, too, especially in light of the absence of the Princeton Tiger dismounted, not marching band. Way to go.[/q]
[Q]CowbellGuy Wrote:
As for Cornell, don't get me wrong. I really appreciate the band. And this has nothing to do with Macho Man. They have, however, been on a bit of a downward trend the last few years. There hasn't been a very strong solo trumpet since Chris Orelup. The middle brass is thin and often, well, poor. But I think my biggest issue lately has been percussion. The percussion section is small, but still the most audible. However, they often seem to think they should be conducting and are completely off doing their own thing. There's rarely someone on bass drum who actually knows the songs. At Clarkson, I actually watched the conductor walk up and remind the guy he was supposed to be playing. He later discovered you can't play the bass drum while talking on a cell phone. Maybe I was spoiled by the band in the late 90's. Hopefully it's just cyclical. And the band certainly has nights when they sound like the best band in the ECAC. But there are other nights... I know the band gets almost no support. I literally watched instruments fall apart at Colgate. I guess I just don't like seeing other schools do it better.[/q]

It's very cyclical. Just ask the seniors in the bone section. Oh wait ...

I'd argue that the Big Red Pep Band/Marching Band complex contributes more to the Cornell community than any individual sports team or music ensemble on campus, and yet receives so little support from the music department or athletics. (Of course people don't come to a sporting event to see the band, but it certainly reaches more people throughout the year than any one team.)

Anyway, my point is, I'm damn proud of what our band does with what it has. Instrumentation comes and goes, off nights happen, and stagnation can settle in if conductors don't work their butts off, but I think the tradition of having fun and kicking ass has transferred pretty well from the mid-late 90's crew ... even if we can't say "sucks" anymore :-D

Man, this thread is getting schizophrenic.

i have to say most of this thread has been an interesting read … and for better or worse points made on all sides. OTOH ... KP '06 is right,  the rest of this discussion makes me think we're approaching that time in the discussion when we break out the dedicated sandbox thread [looks at bill and RichS] and allow those who wish to "play w/ each other" to do just that. therefore allowing the non-participants to watch from afar so as not to get covered in the $hit that has begun to fly.

Point of order, the band's new faculty advisor has said that saying "sucks" is now permissible... of course, he is new at the post.

"Sucks" wasn't allowed?  Weak.

[Q]RichS Wrote:

 Well, at least MOST of the 3836 would say that, i.e., those being the home fans in attendance.   Does that make it fact?  Not a chance.

I'm recalling that in my 3 years of coaching HS hockey here in NJ, I must have ducked out of the way of four or five pucks that were flew over the bench and came towards me.  Did I think any one of those kids were aiming at me or anyone else on our bench?

Nope, I was just glad that this old goalie's eyes and reactions were both good enough to get out of the way.  Only someone with an inflated ego would have a first thought that he was the target of a player.

As noted, Schafer was probably glad he wasn't hit.  Which leaves you guys with the ego problem... [/q]Come on, Rich, even YOU can't be this asinine.  There's a difference between a puck that randomly flies into the bench during the course of play and a puck that's flicked upwards and sideways by a player who's standing right next to the bench, a second or two after it was dropped, with five seconds left in a two-goal game.  Watch the video.  Take off your green-and-gold glasses.  Tell me with a straight face that Scuderi needed to do anything other than stickhandle for three seconds until the game ended (look at the box score, that's how long was left in the game), or that there was ANY reason for him to be shooting the puck ANYWHERE at all (let alone in a direction where, oh look, Mike Schafer just HAPPENS to be standing).  You can't do it.  It was a dirty, classless play, and it was deservedly penalized, and it's only your irresistible urge to defend anything Clarkson-related that keeps you from acknowledging that.

But no, you'll just accuse me of dwelling on things that happened three years ago, rather than face up to reality.  Go ahead.  Use the rolleyes smiley a few times.  Accuse Cornell of being dirty in Schafer's early years (but don't back it up with any specific examples).  Talk about how I don't know what was in Scuderi's head and that I don't have any right to draw a conclusion because I didn't interview him after the game.  But please, by all means, don't bother to look at what actually happened.  You might not like what you see.

[Q]Section A Banshee Wrote:
Point of order, the band's new faculty advisor has said that saying "sucks" is now permissible... of course, he is new at the post.[/q]Awesome.  I like him already.  (Not that it was ever Conn who cared about the language.)

[Q]ugarte Wrote:

 [Q2]RichS Wrote:

[Q2]jmh30 Wrote:

 [Q2]RichS Wrote:
His team was clearly better and he even benefitted from questionable officiating...so why make an ass of yourself?[/Q]
One man's "questionable officiating" is another man's "Clarkson under Morris was often a dirty team".  *shrug*[/Q]
Right...just like cornell under Schafer in the early years.[/Q]
It was a slander then and it is a slander now.

A quick comparison of "dirty" Cornell under Schafer vs. Clarkson:
Year     Cornell PIM    Clarkson PIM
95-96   792                937
96-97   ?                    ?
97-98   595                 747
98-99   569                 550
99-00   543                 518
00-01   417                 442
01-02   458                 663
02-03   499                 710

That was some year you put together under Gentleman Fred Parker.

Edit: Maybe I shouldn't use words like "slander" when the number 792 is sitting there, but at least "glass houses" seems appropriate.[/q]
As much as defending Clarkson goes against my grain, wouldn't this make more sense if it was on a PIM/game basis? Clarkson does play more games. (Well, at least in the regular season they do. ;-) )

The only school, AFAIK, that puts heavy weight on the interview is the Hotel School. They require it, and it can make or break you. I know my interview for the Arts School was pretty lame and never went back to the admissions committee anyway.

I'm pretty sure architecture has a required interview as well.  I'm not sure how we'd know, thought, because I've never heard of a non-architecht ever actually meeting one...

[Q]Robb Wrote:
I'm not sure how we'd know, thought, because I've never heard of a non-architecht ever actually meeting one...[/q]

I knew one.....from high school.

[Q]Robb Wrote:

 I'm pretty sure architecture has a required interview as well.  I'm not sure how we'd know, thought, because I've never heard of a non-architecht ever actually meeting one...[/q]

My girlfriend had an Architect friend who lived near her in Balch.  Actually we used to have to make sure she occasionally slept in her room at Balch rather than at her desk in Rand.

Yeah - I've heard that urban legend before, too, JTW - a friend of a friend...  ;-)