ELynah Forum

General Category => Hockey => Topic started by: beanmaestro on November 19, 2004, 09:40:20 PM

Title: Majors for piddly shit
Post by: beanmaestro on November 19, 2004, 09:40:20 PM
It's hard to tell listening to the radio, but it seems like there are a lot more major penalties being called lately.  Are people bleeding a lot more, or are the refs just handing out majors for what should be minor infractions?  is this a less advertised part of the "crackdown"?
Title: Re: Majors for piddly shit
Post by: David Harding on November 19, 2004, 09:47:20 PM
Both of today's were for hitting from behind.  Presumably they were close to the boards, making them a quite dangerous situation.  That was the case earlier in the season.
Title: Re: Majors for piddly shit
Post by: A-19 on November 19, 2004, 09:48:52 PM
hockey's supposed to be dangerous
Title: Re: Majors for piddly shit
Post by: Lauren '06 on November 19, 2004, 09:57:02 PM
"This isn't figure skating, it's hockey."
--Steve Moore
Title: Re: Majors for piddly shit
Post by: Jim Hyla on November 19, 2004, 10:03:25 PM
[Q]A-19 Wrote:

 hockey's supposed to be dangerous[/q]But hitting from behind, into the boards, should not be done. Fractured necks, and quadraplegia, is not good for the fracturer or fracturee.  ::screwy::
Title: Re: Majors for piddly shit
Post by: billhoward on November 19, 2004, 11:14:08 PM
[Q]Section A Banshee Wrote:

 "This isn't figure skating, it's hockey."
--Steve Moore[/q]

Tell that to the BU player who was paralyzed on his first varsity shift at BU.
Title: Re: Majors for piddly shit
Post by: TShen on November 19, 2004, 11:51:25 PM
At least, the officiating was consistent for both majors. The UVM radio guys describes both as similar unintentional "hits from behind." It sounds like any contact from behind will be called the same way.
Title: Re: Majors for piddly shit
Post by: Lauren '06 on November 20, 2004, 01:11:10 AM
[Q]billhoward Wrote:

 [Q2]Section A Banshee Wrote:

 "This isn't figure skating, it's hockey."
--Steve Moore[/Q]
Tell that to the BU player who was paralyzed on his first varsity shift at BU. [/q]
It was quoted for its irony.  Surely we haven't forgotten the Steve Moore incident already?
Title: Re: Majors for piddly shit
Post by: KeithK on November 20, 2004, 04:01:40 AM
The refs are supposed to be calling the game by the book.  Any hit from behind into the boards is a major plus game or DQ.  Period.  It sucks when it's unintentional, especially when it costs your team a point (Moulson tonight - the major essentially led to both goals).  But that's the rule and for good reason.
Title: Re: Majors for piddly shit
Post by: Pete Godenschwager on November 20, 2004, 08:40:36 AM
According to collegehockeystats.com both majors tonight were only misconducts.  The USCHO recap calls Moulson's a DQ.  I really wish they would learn to keep the two straight. When there's a hooking call, they don't misreport it as a tripping call (or maybe they do and I'm just not paying attention).

http://www.collegehockeystats.com/0405/boxes/mcorver1.n19

 
Title: Re: Majors for piddly shit
Post by: DL on November 20, 2004, 08:49:24 AM
Anybody else having this error popup when viewing page 2 of the UVM game?

Parse error: parse error, unexpected '<' in /var/www/html/elf/mods/bbcode/bbcode.php(105) : regexp code on line 1

Fatal error: Failed evaluating code: stone3law@aol.com in /var/www/html/elf/mods/bbcode/bbcode.php on line 105
Title: Re: Majors for piddly shit
Post by: AJGD '04 on November 20, 2004, 08:55:44 AM
yep
Title: Re: Majors for piddly shit
Post by: calgARI '07 on November 20, 2004, 10:22:26 AM
At the game it was announced that Moulson's major was a DQ.  
For the record, I saw both plays clearly and they both warranted majors and misconducts.  Moulson's was worse and was an exact replica of the hit from behind he got thrown out for against Colgate last season.  And quite clearly that was the turning point of the game.  Cornell was superior team in every respect although that was the best Vermont team I've seen since the days of St. Louis and Perrin.
Title: Re: Majors for piddly shit
Post by: Greenberg \'97 on November 20, 2004, 03:51:07 PM
So did Moulson get a gamer?  Is he suspended tonight?

I'm pretty sure they said the Vermont player got the gate.
Title: Re: Majors for piddly shit
Post by: Robb on November 20, 2004, 04:05:16 PM
What exactly do you think you mean by "gamer" and "got the gate?"  For the umpteenth time this season, the two penalties are called:

Game Misconduct: you get 10 min in penalties added to your stats and cannot return to the current game.

Game Disqualification: you get 10 minutes added to your stats, cannot return to the current game, and are suspended for the next game*

Both of these penalties have the word "game" in them, so what is a "gamer?"  In both cases, you "get the gate" from the current game.  Totally useless and misleading terms.

*for your second DQ of the season, you're suspended for the next two games, 3 game suspension for the 3rd DQ, etc.

I'm positive that I heard Moulson's penalty read over the Gutterson PA as a misconduct, that's what the UVM broadcasters reported, so I believe that Moulson will play tonight.
Title: Re: Majors for piddly shit
Post by: Greenberg \'97 on November 20, 2004, 05:36:29 PM
[Q]Robb Wrote:

 What exactly do you think you mean by "gamer" and "got the gate?"  For the umpteenth time this season, the two penalties are called:

Game Misconduct: you get 10 min in penalties added to your stats and cannot return to the current game.

Game Disqualification: you get 10 minutes added to your stats, cannot return to the current game, and are suspended for the next game*

Both of these penalties have the word "game" in them, so what is a "gamer?"  In both cases, you "get the gate" from the current game.  Totally useless and misleading terms.

*for your second DQ of the season, you're suspended for the next two games, 3 game suspension for the 3rd DQ, etc.

I'm positive that I heard Moulson's penalty read over the Gutterson PA as a misconduct, that's what the UVM broadcasters reported, so I believe that Moulson will play tonight.[/q]

My bad... didn't realize that game misconduct and game DQ were two different penalties.

In any event, you answered my question.
Title: Re: Majors for piddly shit
Post by: Molly on November 20, 2004, 06:55:40 PM
It seems like it was a DQ--Moulson's not playing tonight.
(from Dartmouth audio feed)
Title: Re: Majors for piddly shit
Post by: ACM on November 20, 2004, 07:03:58 PM
"Game misconduct" and "game disqualification" are two different penalties.

I distinctly heard the Moulson penalty announced as as "game disqualification" over the radio last night. Yet it was apparently recorded as a "game misconduct" on at least one web site.

The league, and the NCAA, have a communication problem they have to solve. The penalty called by the official is apparently not being adequately communicated to the arena and the college hockey community. I don't know whether the problem originates with the officials, the scorekeepers, the announcers, or whatever, but it's got to be corrected.
Title: Re: Majors for piddly shit
Post by: billhoward on November 22, 2004, 02:11:08 AM
"Game disqualification" needs to have a clearer name, such as "next-game disqualification." "Game DQ" by itself could be read to mean DQ for the current game or the next game. Clearly it's not clear or we'd not be having these questions pop up. You'll notice the game reports on USCHO.com or cornellbigred.com don't excactly go into detail.
Title: Re: Majors for piddly shit
Post by: jtwcornell91 on November 22, 2004, 07:59:28 AM
[Q]billhoward Wrote:

 "Game disqualification" needs to have a clearer name, such as "next-game disqualification." "Game DQ" by itself could be read to mean DQ for the current game or the next game. Clearly it's not clear or we'd not be having these questions pop up. You'll notice the game reports on USCHO.com or cornellbigred.com don't excactly go into detail. [/q]

There are two different names for two different penalties: game disqualification and game misconduct.  Is it too much to ask that those who cover the game for a living know the difference?
Title: Re: Majors for piddly shit
Post by: Bio '04 on November 22, 2004, 11:18:04 AM
I noticed this in The Sun this morning:

[Q] The backbreaking call came against Moulson just over a minute into the period, when he received a game misconduct and a five-minute major for hitting from behind. [/Q]

Definitely lots of confusion across the board on the names of these two penalties.

http://www.cornellsun.com/vnews/display.v/ART/2004/11/22/41a1765c6dc18
Title: Re: Majors for piddly shit
Post by: Greenberg \'97 on November 22, 2004, 03:00:39 PM
[Q]Bio '04 Wrote:

 I noticed this in The Sun this morning:

[Q2] The backbreaking call came against Moulson just over a minute into the period, when he received a game misconduct and a five-minute major for hitting from behind. [/Q]
Definitely lots of confusion across the board on the names of these two penalties.[/q]

Certainly.  I covered the sport for a year and I didn't realize there were two penalties until just now.

From what I remember, though, I never actually heard a "game misconduct" penalty assessed.  So I always thought that "game disqualification" was the NCAA equivalent of an NHL game misconduct, and it also happened to have a one-game suspension attached to it.

I guess often enough, when a ref decides something is severe enough to warrant ejection, it's also enough for a suspension.  Although I'd like to see actual numbers -- which penalty is called more often, and how often does the box score correlate with whether a suspension was served.
Title: Re: Majors for piddly shit
Post by: CowbellGuy on November 22, 2004, 03:59:44 PM
Since the '99-2000 season (including exhibitions):

Game DQ (both teams): 26
Game DQ (Cornell): 13
Called accompanying majors for Fighting, Spearing, Leaving the Bench, Kneeing, Clipping, Punching*, Excessive Roughness, Hitting From Behind

Game Misconduct (both teams): 15
Game Misconduct (Cornell): 9
Called accompanying majors for Hitting From Behind, Checking From Behind, minors for Roughing*, or no accompanying penalty at all

* Interestingly Hornby got 5m for Punching + 10m DQ while Jamie Sifers got 2m Roughing + 10m Misconduct + 10m Game Misconduct
Title: Re: Majors for piddly shit
Post by: Greenberg \'97 on November 22, 2004, 04:35:39 PM
[Q]CowbellGuy Wrote:

 Since the '99-2000 season (including exhibitions):

Game DQ (both teams): 26
Game DQ (Cornell): 13
Called accompanying majors for Fighting, Spearing, Leaving the Bench, Kneeing, Clipping, Punching*, Excessive Roughness, Hitting From Behind

Game Misconduct (both teams): 15
Game Misconduct (Cornell): 9
Called accompanying majors for Hitting From Behind, Checking From Behind, minors for Roughing*, or no accompanying penalty at all

* Interestingly Hornby got 5m for Punching + 10m DQ while Jamie Sifers got 2m Roughing + 10m Misconduct + 10m Game Misconduct[/q]

But can you be sure that each time the box score shows a DQ, there was an associated suspension, and that each misconduct doesn't have one?
Title: Re: Majors for piddly shit
Post by: CowbellGuy on November 22, 2004, 04:39:07 PM
Yes, because that's what they mean.
Title: Re: Majors for piddly shit
Post by: Jordan 04 on November 22, 2004, 04:40:54 PM
[Q]CowbellGuy Wrote:



* Interestingly Hornby got 5m for Punching + 10m DQ while Jamie Sifers got 2m Roughing + 10m Misconduct + 10m Game Misconduct[/q]

Reputation?  Instigation?

Title: Re: Majors for piddly shit
Post by: Greenberg \'97 on November 22, 2004, 04:45:12 PM
[Q]CowbellGuy Wrote:

 Yes, because that's what they mean.[/q]

I understand that.  But if mistakes have been made on collegehockeystats.com, perhaps similar mistakes show up in the box scores.

Then again, if anyone has accurate stats, it's you, Age.
Title: Re: Majors for piddly shit
Post by: CowbellGuy on November 22, 2004, 04:54:15 PM
I'm sure if it's intended to be a DQ, the player won't be dressed in the next game. In this case, they announced a DQ at the game, so I'm not sure where the communication breakdown happened. CHS either just got it wrong it it was wrong on the official box score. At any rate, Schafer was very clear that it was a DQ since he waited for the refs to get off the ice to give them several pieces of his mind about it.
Title: Re: Majors for piddly shit
Post by: calgARI '07 on November 22, 2004, 07:19:30 PM
[Q]CowbellGuy Wrote:

 I'm sure if it's intended to be a DQ, the player won't be dressed in the next game. In this case, they announced a DQ at the game, so I'm not sure where the communication breakdown happened. CHS either just got it wrong it it was wrong on the official box score. At any rate, Schafer was very clear that it was a DQ since he waited for the refs to get off the ice to give them several pieces of his mind about it.[/q]

I saw him waiting for the refs too and I just couldn't believe it.  I thought it's consistency that Schafer and all the coaches wanted.  Well the Vermont player got thrown out for a less severe hit from behind earlier in the game, so how were the refs not going to assess a severe penalty to Moulson for the same thing?
I was thinking that maybe Schafer waiting to talk to the refs because there was a Vermont player in the crease on the first goal.
Title: Re: Majors for piddly shit
Post by: KeithK on November 22, 2004, 07:55:39 PM
[q]I saw him waiting for the refs too and I just couldn't believe it. I thought it's consistency that Schafer and all the coaches wanted. Well the Vermont player got thrown out for a less severe hit from behind earlier in the game, so how were the refs not going to assess a severe penalty to Moulson for the same thing? [/q]The Vermont player received only a game misconduct, not a disqualification.  Schafer could have been complaining that the refs decided to suspend one of his best players for a game while not giving the same penalty to Vermont.  That wouldn't be asking for differential treatment.  Of course, I have no idea what Schafer actually said.
Title: Re: Majors for piddly shit
Post by: David Harding on November 22, 2004, 09:28:48 PM
[Q]Jordan 04 Wrote:

 [Q2]CowbellGuy Wrote:



* Interestingly Hornby got 5m for Punching + 10m DQ while Jamie Sifers got 2m Roughing + 10m Misconduct + 10m Game Misconduct[/Q]
Reputation?  Instigation?

[/q]
I'd guess that the second misconduct on Sifers was for mouthing off to the ref after the first round of penalties was assesed, or something else that he did after the brouhaha.