Former Arizona Cardinals safety Pat Tillman was killed in Afghanistan after foregoing millions in an NFL contract and enlisting with the Army Rangers two years ago. This is about the saddest thing I can think of in recent memory, especially when you look at the next headline down and see that Eli Manning would rather hold out than play in San Diego or that NHL players would strike rather than make a million or two less a year. This news just makes me sick.
[Q]gtsully Wrote:
Former Arizona Cardinals safety Pat Tillman was killed in Afghanistan after foregoing millions in an NFL contract and enlisting with the Army Rangers two years ago. This is about the saddest thing I can think of in recent memory, especially when you look at the next headline down and see that Eli Manning would rather hold out than play in San Diego or that NHL players would strike rather than make a million or two less a year. This news just makes me sick.[/q]
It's sad about anyone dying in the fighting, especially when he didn't have to go yet chose to do what he thought was important.
Eli Manning is a separate story. Here's a person qualified to play for every employer in his chosen profession, but because all the owners belong to a cartel and consider themselves to be a single employer, he will have only one job offer in the U.S. at the end of his senior season.
If the NHL players want to strike, that's their right, and it's not a slap at the memory of Pat Tillman. The players would be crazy to strike because hockey's financial health is precarious.
It was only in the past three and a half decades that baseball players weren't essentially bound for life to a team. Curt Flood caught a lot of flak for challenging the status quo and critics said he should be grateful for the chance to earn ten times as much as the average American (and, wink-wink, way more than the average black American). The Supreme Court's Flood vs. Kuhn decision (against Flood) was not a high point of American jurisprudence; quoting Casey at the Bat was part of the majority opinion. ... And wasn't it 25 years before that when players who played in the Mexican League were blacklisted for life from Major League Baseball?
For the next couple weeks, one can expect to hear about the the newest seeming-ingrate from radio show callers whose parents a generation ago wondered why this Cassius-Clay-Who-Thinks-He's-Muhammed-Somebody wouldn't do the honorable thing and join the army, or why Curt Flood was about to bankrupt and then destroy baseball.
We fight to defend our freedom to choose, and then we get upset when someone chose to exercise those freedoms.
Note:
- The draft is collectively bargained for and is designed to help the sport
- Baseball players are still bound to the organizations that draft them for up to 10 years.
[Q]We fight to defend our freedom to choose, and then we get upset when someone chose to exercise those freedoms. [/Q]We fight to defend freedom, including the right to act in ways that are petty, selfish or worse. This does not in any way mean that we should not criticize someone for making choices that we disagree with. I would argue that we have a responsibility to stand up for what we feel is right, even while supporting someone's right to do otherwise.
[Q]KeithK Wrote:
[Q2]We fight to defend our freedom to choose, and then we get upset when someone chose to exercise those freedoms. [/Q]
We fight to defend freedom, including the right to act in ways that are petty, selfish or worse. This does not in any way mean that we should not criticize someone for making choices that we disagree with. I would argue that we have a responsibility to stand up for what we feel is right, even while supporting someone's right to do otherwise.
[/q]Fair enough, but it is something of a cheap shot to say "This person died, proving that this other person is a greedy ingrate." Tillman deserves more than to be converted into a political cudgel before his body is even laid to rest.
I've already expressed my feelings about Tillman's sacrifice elsewhere (http://www.rickblaine.com/index/P251/).
[Q]Fair enough, but it is something of a cheap shot to say "This person died, proving that this other person is a greedy ingrate." Tillman deserves more than to be converted into a political cudgel before his body is even laid to rest. [/Q]
I agree with that. Definitely. I started to write a second paragraph on Tillman, but couldn't say what I wanted in a cogent manner so I deleted it. I'll just say that whether some athletes are greedy ingrates or not doesn't affect the respect I have for Pat Tillman or the sorrow I feel that he was killed. Trying to connect the two is unfair to Tillman.
Unfortunately, Tillman's memory will be abused for any number of political causes. 9/11 was. Everything is. Political activitists aren't noted for their sensibilities or sense of proportion.
Let the guy rest, and his family mourn, in peace.
I just thought that the juxtoposition of the stories about Tillman and all of the Eli Mannings out there (read that as you will - greedy athletes, politicians, whatever) should serve as a wake up call to all of us - nothing more than that. It makes me sick everytime a soldier dies, but this really hammers it home.
[Q]...all of the Eli Mannings out there...[/Q]
I guess I don't understand why Eli is getting such a bad rap. Here's a guy who's worked his ass off to get where he is. He wants to put himself in a place where he feels he can do his best. Maybe he feels the Chargers are a bunch of morons, and he's going to be stuck in a crappy system for years. Can you then blame the guy for wanting something else? Why can't a player look out for his own best interest?
Because the draft system was, as previously stated, collectively bargained for, by the players (union) as well. No player should be able to simply decide they're above the system or it completely undermines the system. Do the Chargers suck? Of course. But as long as players circumvent the system that's designed to help the sucky teams stop, err... sucking, the teams will have a hard time climbing out of their holes and more and more players will follow suit. If you want to play in the NFL, play by the rules. I, for one, hope he goes by the way of the Eric Crouches, Brian Wesenbergs, and Brien Taylors* of the world, and not just because he ended up with the Giants. On the other hand, ending up with the Giants might be torture enough...
*Who? OK, another Yankee example: Drew Henson. That better?
[Q]If you want to play in the NFL, play by the rules. [/Q]
He is playing by the rules. If the Chargers had the rights to him, he would not play and go find another job. He never asked for the rules to be bent for him. I understand that crappy teams need to have a chance at the better players, and I think it's a good system. I don't think the fact that the Chargers are a bad team had much to do with it. The Colts were a bad team when they drafted Peyton, and the Mannings had no beef with them.
If by "he would... go find another job." you mean he could go play for another league (the CFL or AFL for example), then I agree with you. If you mean another team, then I disagree. The way the draft and revenue sharing in the NFL is set up is such that it blurs the line between the league and the individual franchises. It's more like a large corporation with 32 offices than a group of 32 individual competing businesses. If the NFL offers Eli a job in the san diego "office" he should be happy to play football at the highest level. If he doesn't want to work in the san diego "office" of the NFL he should look for another employer (not cry about it until they move him to another "office"). I guess I just don't have much respect for the eli mannings and J.D. Drews of the world.
I guess I just meant that he'd find another job (outside the NFL) for a year, and then re-enter the draft next year (as per what was collectively bargained by the players). I don't mean to argue that Eli Manning is a wonderful human being, and we should all love him. I just don't think what he did is all that terrible.
I tend to agree, Pete, and I don't think that Archie should be hated for wanting what he views as what's best for his son.
And who knows better than Archie - the ultimate poster boy for a great player on a horrible team... The Saints were approximately 55-150-3 during his tenure (includes a couple seasons he didn't play - the only breakdown I could find was by head coach and that didn't line up totally with his career) with ZERO postseason games. ::yark::
Pat Tillman wasn't drafted for the assignment that this topic started on. Neither were the three sisters who are in the news this morning as two of them face the decision on whether to return to Iraq afer the death of their sister there. Pat Tillman is remembered for what he did on the field of football and the field of battle. But how many are remembered for what they did on the field of battle. That is, how many of us know any other names of the hundreds of soldiers who have died in the last year. Do we remember Tillman (football) because of how he died? Do we remember Dale Earnhardt (NASCAR) for how he died? Do we remember Hobey Baker (hockey) because of how he died? Do we remember Payne Stewart (golf) for how he died? Do we remember Knute Rockne (football) or how he died? Or how Eamon (lacrosse) died. And the list goes on - the 1961 US figure skating team, the 1970 Marshall University football team, Thurman Munson, Roberto Clemente, etc.
[Q]CowbellGuy Wrote:No player should be able to simply decide they're above the system or it completely undermines the system ... If you want to play in the NFL, play by the rules. [/q]The owners like to talk about contracts and draft rules as if honoring them is a moral obligation on the players. It isn't. The owners and players are locked in a no-holds-barred struggle and they constantly try to screw eachother. The way the law treats contracts tells us that thinking otherwise is for suckers. Doctrines (particularly "efficient breach") have evolved over the years to acknowledge that contracts are nothing more than an expression of the balance of power at the time of signing.
The same rules that Eli Manning is supposed to revere also say that player contracts (regardless of stated length) are only guaranteed on a year-by-year basis. If a player underperforms his five year contract, he gets cut after the first year and receives nothing for the duration - or he takes a pay cut to avoid being cut completely.
Collectively bargaining the draft rules doesn't resolve this problem because the union has its own agenda and the draftees aren't the primary stakeholders. In addition to trying to boost the fortunes of the bad teams the draft serves a second purpose: to suppress rookie salaries for the protection of veterans' salaries. Draftees have every right to try to undermine a system that is designed for the benefit of everyone except them.
Eli Manning had the power before the draft to limit the Chargers' options and he wisely used that power. In two years, if he doesn't live up to his potential, I assure you that the Giants will force him to renegotiate or send him packing. See Leaf, Ryan and (more recently) Collins, Kerry.
The NFL isn't an ethics seminar it is a cutthroat business. Just sit back and watch; there is nothing to judge.
All that being said, Eli's actions were completely within the bounds of the system. Being drafted means you can't sign with another NFL team (unless the drafting team trades away its rights to you); it doesn't mean you have to sign with the team that drafted you. It's not like indentured servitude or anything.
Looking at it from the team's perspective, I think San Diego gamed the system as well as Manning did. I can't imagine that anyone in the front office would want him anyplace near their team, given his stated preferences. They drafted him anyway, dumped him, and wound up with two quality draft picks, including another outstanding quarterback who will probably work out better for them. Manning got what he wanted, and San Diego will be stronger in the long run, as well. Sounds like a win/win to me.
I agree. I couldn't figure out why anyone would want to draft someone who openly states that they would rather sit out a year and not play, rather than play for your team.
I think it's a win-win situation... the only question remaining is, who will the Giants choose to start? Eli the soap star, or the bachelor? ;-)
[Q]CowbellGuy Wrote: Brien Taylor*[/q]Wasn't he the high school star who got a huge signing bonus, only to get into a barroom brawl and dislocate his pitching shoulder?
I'm surprised nobody's mentioned Eric Lindros in this discussion.
The following article is a pretty good recap of the trade and its effects over 10-years later.
http://www.findarticles.com/cf_dls/m1208/35_226/95680465/p1/article.jhtml
Yup. That's the one. They could have picked Cliff Floyd or Shawn Green or Manny Ramirez (well, maybe not Manny), but nooooo...
[Q]Pete Godenschwager Wrote:
I guess I just meant that he'd find another job (outside the NFL) for a year[/q]
How come nobody has mentioned Rocket Ismail and the Bucs? (I think it was the Bucs.) Didn't he go play for the Argo's for a couple years and end up in Oakland after the Raider's used a high round draft pick on him?
Also, didn't Elway refuse to play for the Colts?
Yes, indeed. The Elway situation was even messier. After being drafted by the sorry Colts in '83, he vowed never to play in Baltimore and was traded to Denver six days after the draft. The fans in Bawlmer took this personally. In their '83 season opener, the Colts hosted the Broncos, and my wife - a Colorado native and Bronco fan - thought it would be "fun" to go up from DC to see the game. Most bizarre football game I've ever attended. Reeves decided to start Elway, and with many fans wearing "Nuke Elway" caps and 50,000 people chanting "Elway sucks" throughout the first half, it was ugly. Probably as close as I'll ever come to an English soccer match. Elway was totally rattled and sat the second half. Close to the end of the first half, my wife had had enough and told the boozy and vocal Colts fans behind us that she now understood why Elway wanted to play for Denver. (Fortunately, she's mellowed a bit with age.:-) ) We made a quick exit for the concessions area before things got out of hand.