cornellians and lynah faithful,
i am a senior, a 4yr member of the faithful, and a regular poster and reader on this forum. i am also a member of the Class of 2004 Council, a dean of students group which plans events for the class, in order to achieve greater class unity.
i am spearheading an event, co-sponsored by the classes of 2004, 2005 and cornell athletic promotions, in which we have paid to underwrite two $10,000 field goal kicks , for one senior and one non-senior (graduate students included), for the cornell-columbia football game on 11/15/03 . i am writing to you to inform you of the details, since, as avid hockey fans, you are some of the most likely individuals to be interested in cornell sporting events. registration for the event is completely free , and you can register by e-mailing me (mjr44@cornell.edu) with your name and class year, by signing up with a class rep. on Ho Plaza at the end of next week, or by signing up outside the arena on 11/15. the names will be drawn randomly, and everyone is eligible, with the exception of current ncaa soccer/football/rugby athletes, and former athletes on these ncaa teams since the 1997-98 season (sorry, contractual obligation).
the event will be a wonderful chance to show your support for the football team in the last game at home. also, seniors can participate in the tradition of rushing the field after the game.
feel free to post questions, or email me with any questions or concerns. i hope that many of you consider registering for this memorable event!
-mike rosenberg
class of 2004 council, '04, die hard section A-er
As a member of the Class of '04, I have to ask, if someone wins:
1) What do I, as a member of this class, stand to gain from us giving away $10,000 in a completely free contest.
2) If this isn't a fundraiser, but just a "fun thing to do"...isn't there some better use of the money? Perhaps one that benefits a larger segment of the class than 1 person.
As a member of the Marching Band, I have to ask, if nobody wins:
1) Isn't this a rather bad waste of several thousand people's time? Granted that our band and Columbia's may not be the #1 most exciting things in the world, nor is Athletic's usual habit of reading out the names of a couple dozen former athletes who stand on the field. Nevertheless, having just seen the slightly more creative pass-punt-kick contest at Princeton this past weekend, as well as countless long shot contests at basketball, we all pretty much know that the chances of winning are slim, unless the person is a practiced kicker. And if the person is a practiced kicker: well, we see people earn $10k per kick on TV in the NFL all the time, and that's not very exciting, either.
Seriously, whose brilliant idea was this, and what's it supposed to accomplish? Are you really expecting many more people to show up to the game just to watch this kick? It seems to me that you'd have more success if, for example, you gave everyone a free slice of pizza or can of soda just for showing up, as an example. Or better yet, just add the money to the allotment for the coach's salary, so maybe Cornell could field a winning team.
Bah
-Shorts (bitterness...setting...in)
I'm an alum, which makes me a non-senior, can I enter?
It would be worth a drive to Ithaca for a chance to win $10K.
[Q]1) What do I, as a member of this class, stand to gain from us giving away $10,000 in a completely free contest.[/Q]
Typically (somebody please correct me if I'm wrong) the group sponsoring the event buys insurance against somebody actually making the field goal. Thus, they are actually spending much, much less than the $10,000 advertised prize. I'm assuming that is the case with this event as well.
QuoteShorts '04 wrote:
Nevertheless, having just seen the slightly more creative pass-punt-kick contest at Princeton this past weekend, as well as countless long shot contests at basketball, we all pretty much know that the chances of winning are slim, unless the person is a practiced kicker. And if the person is a practiced kicker: well, we see people earn $10k per kick on TV in the NFL all the time, and that's not very exciting, either
Reminds me of the one and only time Stone Travel gave away 2 roundtrip tickets anywhere in the US at a Cornell lacrosse game simply for shooting a ball into an empty cage from the midfield line. If memory serves, the promotion was supposed to run all season, except that the first guy in the home opener buried it on the first try.
Admittedly, putting a ball into a 6ft x 6ft square from 40 yards might be pretty tough for someone that has never held a stick before, but it should be pretty straight forward for anyone that played HS lax. Not a absolute gimme but as a wild ass guess, I'd suspect your average former lacrosse player could do it probably 6 or 7 times out of 10. I guess Stone grossly underestimated the number of former players in the crowd. I mean, it isn't like a lot of guys in CNY grew up playing lax or anything... :-P
How long is the field goal attempt going to be?
45 yards i think
Are you kidding? Cornell's never had a KICKER who could make it from that distance!!
:-P
And to make it even more difficult, contestants will have to deal with a snapper and a holder from the New York Giants ;-)
> If memory serves, the promotion was supposed to run all season, except that the first guy in the home opener buried it on the first try.
Reminds me of the infamous Islander truck giveaway -- shoot the puck the length of the ice into a 1.1 puck's width hole. Mark Gastineau was the "visiting dignitary" the first week and he announced the promo and then, before handing the stick to the contestant, just for the hell of it took the shot... and made it. Crowd went nuts, then he handed the stick to the contestant, who took the shot for real... and made it.
The promotion ended after one night.
[Q]Are you kidding? Cornell's never had a KICKER who could make it from that distance!![/Q]I know you were kidding, but some of us remember a guy named Gogolak.
Two people put a puck through a hole that size from the length of the ice? Wow! I've never seen a fan get one in that size hole from the blue line, let alone the opposite end of the cie.
dear all,
being that e-lynah was down, i could not respond to the various comments. here are the answers:
shorts, don't worry so much about the money. pete is correct. the money is not coming out of cornell. you may be familiar with the concept of insurance underwriting. cornell class of 04, 05 and athletic promotions are spending $700 in order to underwrite two individuals to kick the field goals. if they don't make it, we pay $700. if they make it, we pay $700 but the insurance company pays the kid the 10 grand. the purpose of the event is to get seniors to attend the seniors on the field, and get people to attend the football games. i have received 350 emails already from students who have entered, and thus, will be at the game. for a $700 event, that's a big success at cornell. and we haven't even begun tabling or working other list servs. the daily sun is covering too. i hope i have allayed your concerns. in addition, the whole thing will take 5 minutes. don't worry, we're not cutting into your band time. and i happen to enjoy our marching band's shows very much. unfortunately, people don't come in droves for the band, even though you guys deserve it. i don't see why you are so bitter! i wonder if you feel the same way, knowing that we spent $700 instead of $10,000? additionally, free pizza or something cannot be considered a draw for people to come to an event, but instead a reward for coming. $10,000 is sure as hell a draw.
adam, alumns can only enter if they are current cornell students. graduate students can enter. the idea is that few grads will actually enter, and we should only be paying for students since that's what our class councils mission involves. sorry about that!
chris, the kick is 45 yards, from the center hash mark on the 35 yard line. the ball will be held by president lehman . no tees allowed.
the kick is difficult, but not impossible. we are really pitching it to former hs and cornell club football, soccer, rugby players who really can kick that distance.
if anyone has any questions, or is interested in the event, feel free to post or send me an email at mjr44@cornell.edu
also, i get nothing out of this by the way. i just planned the event because i thought it was a good way to get a good amount of people to a senior event (srs on the field) and to a football game, and people might be entertained, and maybe someone will win 10k which would be amazing.
-mike
Post Edited (11-11-03 21:56)
Since this topic is back up here, I thought that I would remind people of the Stone Travel Shoot-out (up until 2001 I think). I distinctly remember the person who last got it through the center hole from the blue line and then won the event on shooting the puck the length of the ice into an empty net (which is tougher than one may assume). And after that there have been no more Stone Travel giveaways...not to mention Subway stopped being nice and no longer does the giveaway to kids.
i agree, drew. now all we have is a retarded bear, which looks like a rabid chipmunk, and refuses to throw candy since the wmu incident. i miss the giveaways.
i have heard that the class of 05 is sponsoring a charity event during the harvard game with a shot similar to the stone travel/banfis thing in 00-01, to win another 10 grand. but i don't wanna steal their thunder...i'm sure you'll hear plenty about it in the next few weeks as they pull it together.
i also hear that 20 tickets to the harvard game are being given out at the ga tech basketball game. not sure how though. it's part of the big promos surrounding that game.
-mike
[q]the ball will be held by president lehman[/q]
Let J. Andrew Noel be the one holding the ball, and I'll pay $10K to take a kick. ::uptosomething::
The bear problem needs its own thread. But I will say this:
The bears used to entertain. They'd do stunts, tricks, and skits. I was lucky enough to participate in some of the intermission entertainment several times. Now if there's no candy, the bear has nothing to do!? I'd rather have no bear than a lame bear.
QuoteRich H '96 wrote:
The bear problem needs its own thread. But I will say this:
The bears used to entertain. They'd do stunts, tricks, and skits. I was lucky enough to participate in some of the intermission entertainment several times. Now if there's no candy, the bear has nothing to do!? I'd rather have no bear than a lame bear.
I agree. A couple of years ago the bears put a little effort into mocking Alabama-Huntsville, and it was actually quite funny. Since then, I don't think they've done anything but throw candy and *cringe* strip at the end of the season ::uhoh::
QuoteRich H '96 wrote:
[q]the ball will be held by president lehman[/q]
Let J. Andrew Noel be the one holding the ball, and I'll pay $10K to take a kick. ::uptosomething::
My nomination for best posting of the year. ::laugh::
Given how bad a skater the bear was at the first WMU game, I don't think it's just the candy problem that has benched the bear (if in fact the bear has been benched). Let's face it - this guy was not an ice skater by any stretch of the imagination. Back in late '92 or early '93 I skated as the bear after driving a twelve-hour taxicab shift, and because I was having trouble, the Pep Band started a rousing chant of "The Bear drives a cab!" - and I was skating ten times as well as this joker.
Don't they have tryouts anymore?!
Beeeej
given to how this thread has turned into an anti-bear conversation (which i unfortunately started, nonetheless), i am surprised at the general lack of interest from all you cornell sports fans out there, with regard to this FG event. no current students reading this forum are interested in winning $10,000?
-mike
Oh I'm interested. I just can't kick a 45-yard field goal ::worry::
"now that's the kind of attitude that isn't going to get you anywhere..."
Um, that's right. I just had a conversation with myself ::help::
I need to sleep.
[Q]no current students reading this forum are interested in winning $10,000?[/q]
Ding ding! Give this man a cigar!
You mentioned the figure of 350 people wanting to play (amounting to less than 2% of the stadium capacity). Assuming that all of these are people who otherwise wouldn't attend the game (which is not clear), that still works out to about $2 per person. I'm not sure what the difference is between a draw to the event and an advertised reward for coming. However, when Cornell Dining decided to move their operations for the day to the area of the football field, people followed the food, and there was a great turnout for freshmen on the field.
You claimed that:[Q]the whole thing will take 5 minutes. don't worry, we're not cutting into your band time[/Q]While that seems a small part of a day, even a small part of the total game time, halftime is only 20 minutes long.
I'm sure plenty of people would be interested in having $10,000. However, I think most people are not as interested in a contest where the expectation value of the total winnings is only $700, which is divided among all the 350+ contestants, and the price of participation is having to sit through at least half of a big red football game. Otherwise, you would see lots of students picking up part time jobs in order to feed their consumption of lottery tickets.
Lastly, as I understand it, the funding for this comes from the Student Activity Fee, and that money from that fee already goes towards making student tickets to Athletic events free. If football games are so non-entertaining that people don't attend when they're free, we can assume that a person gets less benefit from watching the game than from whatever else they might be doing on a Saturday morning. So, from an economic standpoint: students already have to pay enough money to completely subsidize attendence at Athletic events. This isn't enough to spur attendence, however, and so the Class of 2004 student government has decided to take even more money from the class, in order to actually pay people to attend the game. The term "Econ 101" gets bandied about far too much in forums these days, but it genuinely is a concept from introductory Economics that you cannot possibly make a person better off by taking his money, buying something, and giving him back what you chose to buy, if it's something he could have purchased individually (ie. exceptions exist for things that can only be bought "in bulk", like roads).
I agree with your economic analysis but in this case aren't they trying to boost attendance for Seniors on the Field, not the game itself? I think they made the decision that it was worth $700 to get a larger portion of the senior class to participate. We can argue whether this is a good use of the money (I don't think so) but maybe we should let it go. :-)
In my day, we didn't need to be bribed to participate in Seniors on the Field. The opportunity to swamp the Penn band was reward enough. :-}
QuoteAvash '05 wrote:
Oh I'm interested. I just can't kick a 45-yard field goal ::worry::
I don't think I could kick a 15 yard feild goal. ::help::
With regards to the Bear... the person who did it for the last 3 years graduated with an advanced degree, and newbies have since been doing it. As far as the candy issue, I imagine that if is disalowed, it was one so by the rink director...ask him. I wish i knew more, but im not in Ithaca this semester. If you are unhappy with the bear at hockey, and have suggestions on how to improve their entertainment, contact the Athletic office.
As far as no bears being present, there have been some scheduling difficulties this year.
QuoteJohn T. Whelan '91 wrote:
I don't think I could kick a 15 yard feild goal. ::help::
{inside joke}
I could throw it through the uprights from the 15 yd line....
{/inside joke}
The candy incident occurred when the bear threw some candy up in the first intermission and some idiot near the B/C aisle threw some back or maybe it just never got over the glass. The refs spotted it and some rink people had to come out and clean it off the ice, delaying the start of the period. The bear came out in the second intermission with his bucket of candy, put it down near the goal, and while he was off falling down or something, Phil walked on the ice and took the candy away.
QuoteCowbell Guy wrote:
The candy incident occurred when the bear threw some candy up in the first intermission and some idiot near the B/C aisle threw some back or maybe it just never got over the glass. The refs spotted it and some rink people had to come out and clean it off the ice, delaying the start of the period.
The cool thing to do in D-E is apparently catch the candy and chuck it really hard back at the bear and laugh about it. There were at least a half-dozen pieces of candy on the ice at that end of the rink when the refs and WMU skated out for the 2nd period. This happened several times last season as well...I have a pretty good view of it from my usual position in H. I actually applaud Phil for putting an end to the bear-candy. Watching the bear clumsily fumble around trying to throw candy at other people isn't particularly fun anyway.
And maybe I will contact the Athletic Office with ideas. You know...goal-diving, headstands, skits, etc. Just look at Goldy the Gopher for a model of an entertaining mascot.
Post Edited (11-13-03 15:43)
QuoteRich H '96 wrote:
Just look at Goldy the Gopher for a model of an entertaining mascot.
Yeah, he's probably on a full scholarship :-)
i am not going to get into the whole economic argument for the FG, although there is plenty to be said. however, i will offer the following.
several people here seem to have very strong views on the use of this, and other money from student groups such as the class of 2004 council. in addition, these people are also very interested and concerned with the type of events that groups such as ours promote and organize. that being said, i extend an invitation for critics to attend a class of 2004 council meeting in order to bring to the table your ideas on worthwhile events. 04 meets at 6pm on tuesdays in loft 2 of willard straight hall (and 05 is at 7pm). we encourage new volunteer members to come up with new and innovative events, and to take part in planning them. if you are disappointed about the current use of the university-granted $ to these groups, maybe you have better ideas, and we would appreciate hearing them.
-mike rosenberg
What ended up happening yesterday?
A senior guy and a freshman girl were picked.
They both kicked it to about the same spot....the 10 yard line. Or maybe it was the goal line. Either way, woefully short. Granted, according to the flags above the press box, they were kicking into the wind.
Post Edited (11-16-03 23:17)