ELynah Forum

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Not ideal.  But given the coaching transition and large graduating class, some turnover is not surprising, even if it would not have been entirely expected based on recent trends.  Will be interesting to see where he lands.  I suspect he'll have multiple suitors and his choice may provide some insight into his motivations.

Quote from: opqr2019Not ideal.  But given the coaching transition and large graduating class, some turnover is not surprising, even if it would not have been entirely expected based on recent trends.  Will be interesting to see where he lands.  I suspect he'll have multiple suitors and his choice may provide some insight into his motivations.

Yeah, not ideal, not so wildly unexpected to see, and not the end of the world, or the Program.

I suspect recruiting will be different anyway.  Time will tell.

More proof in the decline of the Ivy League degree.

Could be any number of things.  Bad news of course, but we'll survive.

I can't imagine he'll transfer to another ECAC school. I'd have to think he gets picked up by a team in another conference--likely HEA, Big10, or maybe even NCHC.

https://www.cornellsun.com/article/2025/04/breaking-sophomore-defenseman-ben-robertson-enters-transfer-portal

It is amazing how the events of the past ten days have completely sullied our miracle run in the ECAC playoffs and vs MSU. Maybe not to others, but to me they have. I went from being over the moon after the MSU game to being completely dejected just a few days later. OT heartbreaker to BU, eighth straight regional final loss. Best player leaves for the pros. Most important member of the team for the next two years ditches the program. And there could be more where that came from. It is crazy how one can go from the happiest they've EVER felt as a Cornell hockey fan, to the absolute worst* they've felt.

*excluding 2020 playoffs getting canceled


Shoutout to the real ones like scoop85, Jim Hyla, ugarte, Dafatone, Tom Lento who are reasonable people and carry themselves like adults even when they disagree with me.

And also shoutout to my haters, you make posting on this website so much more fun. I would never be such a prolific contributor to this forum were it not for your massive freakout towards my posts, posts which are totally innocuous and at which none would bat an eye on any other sports forum or social media. Case in point: last week I was called a terrible person for saying Schafer didn't use the transfer portal!

Following this team for the last few days has been very upsetting, so it is time for good old BearLover to disconnect for a bit. What does that mean? Could be a month, could be a week, could be a day, could be forever. I'm putting osorojo in charge while I'm gone. If you'd like to reach out, my DMs are always open, though I do not check them. And with that...


...BearLover out.

Good riddance, bearhater

Quote from: imafrshmnGood riddance, bearhater

Agreed. Good riddance to my haters, known as BearHaters. And with that...

...BearLover out.

Quote from: BearLoverIt is amazing how the events of the past ten days have completely sullied our miracle run in the ECAC playoffs and vs MSU. Maybe not to others, but to me they have. I went from being over the moon after the MSU game to being completely dejected just a few days later. OT heartbreaker to BU, eighth straight regional final loss. Best player leaves for the pros. Most important member of the team for the next two years ditches the program. And there could be more where that came from. It is crazy how one can go from the happiest they've EVER felt as a Cornell hockey fan, to the absolute worst* they've felt.

*excluding 2020 playoffs getting canceled


Shoutout to the real ones like scoop85, Jim Hyla, ugarte, Dafatone, Tom Lento who are reasonable people and carry themselves like adults even when they disagree with me.

And also shoutout to my haters, you make posting on this website so much more fun. I would never be such a prolific contributor to this forum were it not for your massive freakout towards my posts, posts which are totally innocuous and at which none would bat an eye on any other sports forum or social media. Case in point: last week I was called a terrible person for saying Schafer didn't use the transfer portal!

Following this team for the last few days has been very upsetting, so it is time for good old BearLover to disconnect for a bit. What does that mean? Could be a month, could be a week, could be a day, could be forever. I'm putting osorojo in charge while I'm gone. If you'd like to reach out, my DMs are always open, though I do not check them. And with that...


...BearLover out.

I'll say this. If the last three years, which have had three NCAA bids, three big first round upsets over top teams, two ECAC championships, this past season's flip from "we suck" to "we're great" after everything looked hopeless, and a bunch of wins against ranked OOC teams aren't enough to bring you more happiness than pain, then you're never going to be happy unless we win a national title, and boy, that just does not sound like a pleasant way to go through life.

Given the size of our outgoing class, next year was always going to be something akin to a rebuilding year. A couple unexpected defections hurt, but we're still in better shape going forward than 10 ECAC teams and most of college hockey. Let's see what happens.

Quote from: DafatoneI'll say this. If the last three years, which have had three NCAA bids, three big first round upsets over top teams, two ECAC championships, this past season's flip from "we suck" to "we're great" after everything looked hopeless, and a bunch of wins against ranked OOC teams aren't enough to bring you more happiness than pain, then you're never going to be happy unless we win a national title, and boy, that just does not sound like a pleasant way to go through life.

Given the size of our outgoing class, next year was always going to be something akin to a rebuilding year. A couple unexpected defections hurt, but we're still in better shape going forward than 10 ECAC teams and most of college hockey. Let's see what happens.

Rebuild or reload, we have 17 returning players, 11 of which are Seniors or Juniors. All of whom have been to the NCAAs 3 years in a row. I'm excited to see who steps up and to meet the new freshman class. LGR.

edit: In the end, this team really rallied and showed up- just to end approximately where they were predicted to at the beginning of the season. One of the last 8 teams still in the mix for the championship. I couldn't be more happy for them, outside of the big one, of course. It was up and down, but in the end, we did alright. They showed grit. It's good hockey.  


Poll 9/23/24 (https://cornellbigred.com/news/2024/9/23/mens-ice-hockey-2024-25-uscho-preseason-poll.aspx)

Hopefully a fully healthy Wallace and Devlin will be like adding two new guys.

Quote from: BearLoverIt is amazing how the events of the past ten days have completely sullied our miracle run in the ECAC playoffs and vs MSU. Maybe not to others, but to me they have. I went from being over the moon after the MSU game to being completely dejected just a few days later. OT heartbreaker to BU, eighth straight regional final loss. Best player leaves for the pros. Most important member of the team for the next two years ditches the program. And there could be more where that came from. It is crazy how one can go from the happiest they've EVER felt as a Cornell hockey fan, to the absolute worst* they've felt.

*excluding 2020 playoffs getting canceled


Shoutout to the real ones like scoop85, Jim Hyla, ugarte, Dafatone, Tom Lento who are reasonable people and carry themselves like adults even when they disagree with me.

And also shoutout to my haters, you make posting on this website so much more fun. I would never be such a prolific contributor to this forum were it not for your massive freakout towards my posts, posts which are totally innocuous and at which none would bat an eye on any other sports forum or social media. Case in point: last week I was called a terrible person for saying Schafer didn't use the transfer portal!

Following this team for the last few days has been very upsetting, so it is time for good old BearLover to disconnect for a bit. What does that mean? Could be a month, could be a week, could be a day, could be forever. I'm putting osorojo in charge while I'm gone. If you'd like to reach out, my DMs are always open, though I do not check them. And with that...


...BearLover out.

I imagine I'm probably included when you envision your "haters" - in truth, I just think (i) your Chicken Little tendencies are overdeveloped and you need to calm down, and (ii) you should try to think a little harder about how you're saying what you want to say before you hit the "Post message" button. It will probably be good for you to take a little time off, but I will be the first to admit that I still find your posts entertaining even as I'm rolling my eyes at them. Be well and Go Red.

He might not even leave! (whoops reading the Sun article now. looks like his choices aren't skimping on the academics, though Denver would probably be a more hockey-centric choice)

Quote from: Dafatone

Quote from: BearLoverIt is amazing how the events of the past ten days have completely sullied our miracle run in the ECAC playoffs and vs MSU. Maybe not to others, but to me they have. I went from being over the moon after the MSU game to being completely dejected just a few days later. OT heartbreaker to BU, eighth straight regional final loss. Best player leaves for the pros. Most important member of the team for the next two years ditches the program. And there could be more where that came from. It is crazy how one can go from the happiest they've EVER felt as a Cornell hockey fan, to the absolute worst* they've felt.

*excluding 2020 playoffs getting canceled


Shoutout to the real ones like scoop85, Jim Hyla, ugarte, Dafatone, Tom Lento who are reasonable people and carry themselves like adults even when they disagree with me.

And also shoutout to my haters, you make posting on this website so much more fun. I would never be such a prolific contributor to this forum were it not for your massive freakout towards my posts, posts which are totally innocuous and at which none would bat an eye on any other sports forum or social media. Case in point: last week I was called a terrible person for saying Schafer didn't use the transfer portal!

Following this team for the last few days has been very upsetting, so it is time for good old BearLover to disconnect for a bit. What does that mean? Could be a month, could be a week, could be a day, could be forever. I'm putting osorojo in charge while I'm gone. If you'd like to reach out, my DMs are always open, though I do not check them. And with that...


...BearLover out.

I'll say this. If the last three years, which have had three NCAA bids, three big first round upsets over top teams, two ECAC championships, this past season's flip from "we suck" to "we're great" after everything looked hopeless, and a bunch of wins against ranked OOC teams aren't enough to bring you more happiness than pain, then you're never going to be happy unless we win a national title, and boy, that just does not sound like a pleasant way to go through life.

Given the size of our outgoing class, next year was always going to be something akin to a rebuilding year. A couple unexpected defections hurt, but we're still in better shape going forward than 10 ECAC teams and most of college hockey. Let's see what happens.

Totally agree with this assessment.
We had 10 new guys come in 23-24 and they performed well. We have a couple of extra spots this coming year, yes, but I have faith in the remaining guys to step up and for the incoming players to adapt well!

I'm excited to see what may come!

Quote from: Dafatone

Quote from: BearLoverIt is amazing how the events of the past ten days have completely sullied our miracle run in the ECAC playoffs and vs MSU. Maybe not to others, but to me they have. I went from being over the moon after the MSU game to being completely dejected just a few days later. OT heartbreaker to BU, eighth straight regional final loss. Best player leaves for the pros. Most important member of the team for the next two years ditches the program. And there could be more where that came from. It is crazy how one can go from the happiest they've EVER felt as a Cornell hockey fan, to the absolute worst* they've felt.

*excluding 2020 playoffs getting canceled


Shoutout to the real ones like scoop85, Jim Hyla, ugarte, Dafatone, Tom Lento who are reasonable people and carry themselves like adults even when they disagree with me.

And also shoutout to my haters, you make posting on this website so much more fun. I would never be such a prolific contributor to this forum were it not for your massive freakout towards my posts, posts which are totally innocuous and at which none would bat an eye on any other sports forum or social media. Case in point: last week I was called a terrible person for saying Schafer didn't use the transfer portal!

Following this team for the last few days has been very upsetting, so it is time for good old BearLover to disconnect for a bit. What does that mean? Could be a month, could be a week, could be a day, could be forever. I'm putting osorojo in charge while I'm gone. If you'd like to reach out, my DMs are always open, though I do not check them. And with that...


...BearLover out.

I'll say this. If the last three years, which have had three NCAA bids, three big first round upsets over top teams, two ECAC championships, this past season's flip from "we suck" to "we're great" after everything looked hopeless, and a bunch of wins against ranked OOC teams aren't enough to bring you more happiness than pain, then you're never going to be happy unless we win a national title, and boy, that just does not sound like a pleasant way to go through life.

Given the size of our outgoing class, next year was always going to be something akin to a rebuilding year. A couple unexpected defections hurt, but we're still in better shape going forward than 10 ECAC teams and most of college hockey. Let's see what happens.

Ding ding ding. And really, there's only one "defection" - Bancroft going pro isn't nearly the same discussion as Robertson entering the transfer portal, and Rayhill and Kovich aren't eligible to play year 5 for us anyway.

Que sera sera. I'm still excited for it. Already thinking up things to yell at the rink, haha.

Edit: speaking of, thoughts for making quips in next year's game day thread titles? Like, instead of, say, Cornell v Brown, Cornell v the Toilet Bowl; Cornell v Princeton -> Cornell v Paper Tigers. Stuff like that.

And yeah, if you want a national title, as I have said long ago, go cheer for Denver or some other true blue-blood team.

Just wow.  Theories on entering the portal?  Academics too rough or not a Casey fan?  This is a tough loss, but not a total game changer after a subpar sophomore season.

Quote from: BlueSkyJust wow.  Theories on entering the portal?  Academics too rough or not a Casey fan?  This is a tough loss, but not a total game changer after a subpar sophomore season.

It's a total game-changer IMO. I think you're over-indexing too much on one subpar season and forgetting his incredible freshman year/junior career. He was a beast in the playoffs this year. He was going to be the second best player on next year's team and, assuming Walsh goes pro after next year, the best player on the team in 2026-27. We are now left with 2 returning D. It was going to be up to next year's junior class to bridge the gap between the last three amazing seasons and the incoming new blood. Losing Robertson is devastating.

As to your question why this happened, I had the same two guesses (school/doesn't like Casey).

Quote from: ugarteHe might not even leave! (whoops reading the Sun article now. looks like his choices aren't skimping on the academics, though Denver would probably be a more hockey-centric choice)

Ben Robertson was in ILR. That would not be the right choice if you wanted to live a hockey-centric, academics-lite career on the Hill.

We have two goaltenders returning: Remington Keopple and Justin Katz, but I don't believe he got playing time past the Red White game. Katz is the Johnson School. Great Quebec pedigree per Katz' bio: "... enrolled in the SC Johnson College of Business, where his cousin, Marti Fergenbaum, also graduated from."

Quote from: stereax

Quote from: Dafatone

Quote from: BearLoverIt is amazing how the events of the past ten days have completely sullied our miracle run in the ECAC playoffs and vs MSU. Maybe not to others, but to me they have. I went from being over the moon after the MSU game to being completely dejected just a few days later. OT heartbreaker to BU, eighth straight regional final loss. Best player leaves for the pros. Most important member of the team for the next two years ditches the program. And there could be more where that came from. It is crazy how one can go from the happiest they've EVER felt as a Cornell hockey fan, to the absolute worst* they've felt.

*excluding 2020 playoffs getting canceled


Shoutout to the real ones like scoop85, Jim Hyla, ugarte, Dafatone, Tom Lento who are reasonable people and carry themselves like adults even when they disagree with me.

And also shoutout to my haters, you make posting on this website so much more fun. I would never be such a prolific contributor to this forum were it not for your massive freakout towards my posts, posts which are totally innocuous and at which none would bat an eye on any other sports forum or social media. Case in point: last week I was called a terrible person for saying Schafer didn't use the transfer portal!

Following this team for the last few days has been very upsetting, so it is time for good old BearLover to disconnect for a bit. What does that mean? Could be a month, could be a week, could be a day, could be forever. I'm putting osorojo in charge while I'm gone. If you'd like to reach out, my DMs are always open, though I do not check them. And with that...


...BearLover out.

I'll say this. If the last three years, which have had three NCAA bids, three big first round upsets over top teams, two ECAC championships, this past season's flip from "we suck" to "we're great" after everything looked hopeless, and a bunch of wins against ranked OOC teams aren't enough to bring you more happiness than pain, then you're never going to be happy unless we win a national title, and boy, that just does not sound like a pleasant way to go through life.

Given the size of our outgoing class, next year was always going to be something akin to a rebuilding year. A couple unexpected defections hurt, but we're still in better shape going forward than 10 ECAC teams and most of college hockey. Let's see what happens.

Ding ding ding. And really, there's only one "defection" - Bancroft going pro isn't nearly the same discussion as Robertson entering the transfer portal, and Rayhill and Kovich aren't eligible to play year 5 for us anyway.

Que sera sera. I'm still excited for it. Already thinking up things to yell at the rink, haha.

Edit: speaking of, thoughts for making quips in next year's game day thread titles? Like, instead of, say, Cornell v Brown, Cornell v the Toilet Bowl; Cornell v Princeton -> Cornell v Paper Tigers. Stuff like that.

And yeah, if you want a national title, as I have said long ago, go cheer for Denver or some other true blue-blood team.

Not sure I agree. When you make the final eight regularly, an occasional national title is not a crazy thought. Yale winning was crazy. Union winning was crazy. Not because they weren't good those years, but they did not have extended success.

Rumblings that Roberson is transferring to Michigan. So depressing. Wishing him and them the worst of luck next season. Hope it's a one-off defection and doesn't start a trend.

Quote from: BearLoverRumblings that Roberson is transferring to Michigan. So depressing. Wishing him and them the worst of luck next season. Hope it's a one-off defection and doesn't start a trend.

If that's true, it makes sense, sadly.

Ben Robertson has announced his commitment to Michigan. (https://x.com/JaneMcNally_/status/1912233250468352199)

And now it's official. I'm honestly curious. We have had 0 decommits among the 20 or so kids who were committed at the time Casey took over. Nobody else on the team has transferred out. Robertson has almost no chance of an NHL career. He was on the first D pairing, first PP unit, and alongside Rego got more TOI than anybody on the entire team. His team won back to back league championships and was one goal from the frozen four twice in his two years. He was going to one of the best schools in the world. Whatever was troubling Robertson this year about his situation, it seems unique to him. Or maybe he is uniquely disloyal.

Quote from: BearLoverAnd now it's official. I'm honestly curious. We have had 0 decommits among the 20 or so kids who were committed at the time Casey took over. Nobody else on the team has transferred out. Robertson has almost no chance of an NHL career. He was on the first D pairing, first PP unit, and alongside Rego got more TOI than anybody on the entire team. His team won back to back league championships and was one goal from the frozen four twice in his two years. He was going to one of the best schools in the world. Whatever was troubling Robertson this year about his situation, it seems unique to him. Or maybe he is uniquely disloyal.

There's so much we're never going to know. Maybe he loves non-contiguous states. Maybe he had a bad breakup and wants to change time zones. Maybe he's just over Ithaca.

Quote from: Dafatone

Quote from: BearLoverAnd now it's official. I'm honestly curious. We have had 0 decommits among the 20 or so kids who were committed at the time Casey took over. Nobody else on the team has transferred out. Robertson has almost no chance of an NHL career. He was on the first D pairing, first PP unit, and alongside Rego got more TOI than anybody on the entire team. His team won back to back league championships and was one goal from the frozen four twice in his two years. He was going to one of the best schools in the world. Whatever was troubling Robertson this year about his situation, it seems unique to him. Or maybe he is uniquely disloyal.

There's so much we're never going to know. Maybe he loves non-contiguous states. Maybe he had a bad breakup and wants to change time zones. Maybe he's just over Ithaca.

i think the "no NIL in hockey" is probably overstated. especially if B1G wants to change that. beyond that though, i'll bet the facilities kick ass and his tuition payments are gone. Virginia isn't a hockey hotbed and idk enough about the USHL to know if his performance up to the time he committed here was good enough to get much attention (42A in 61G in his last season in Waterloo is nice though). i don't think much about loyalty. it's never a two-way street in sports. if you're going to speculate that he was uniquely unhappy, i'm going to counterspeculate that he wasn't unhappy at all but got a scholarship offer to a school on par with our own (hockey and classroom) that wasn't on the table two years ago.

Quote from: ugarte

Quote from: Dafatone

Quote from: BearLoverAnd now it's official. I'm honestly curious. We have had 0 decommits among the 20 or so kids who were committed at the time Casey took over. Nobody else on the team has transferred out. Robertson has almost no chance of an NHL career. He was on the first D pairing, first PP unit, and alongside Rego got more TOI than anybody on the entire team. His team won back to back league championships and was one goal from the frozen four twice in his two years. He was going to one of the best schools in the world. Whatever was troubling Robertson this year about his situation, it seems unique to him. Or maybe he is uniquely disloyal.

There's so much we're never going to know. Maybe he loves non-contiguous states. Maybe he had a bad breakup and wants to change time zones. Maybe he's just over Ithaca.

i think the "no NIL in hockey" is probably overstated. especially if B1G wants to change that. beyond that though, i'll bet the facilities kick ass and his tuition payments are gone. Virginia isn't a hockey hotbed and idk enough about the USHL to know if his performance up to the time he committed here was good enough to get much attention (42A in 61G in his last season in Waterloo is nice though). i don't think much about loyalty. it's never a two-way street in sports. if you're going to speculate that he was uniquely unhappy, i'm going to counterspeculate that he wasn't unhappy at all but got a scholarship offer to a school on par with our own (hockey and classroom) that wasn't on the table two years ago.

Agree with most of that except for the on par statement.   Michigan hockey > Cornell hockey by far.

Quote from: ugarte

Quote from: Dafatone

Quote from: BearLoverAnd now it's official. I'm honestly curious. We have had 0 decommits among the 20 or so kids who were committed at the time Casey took over. Nobody else on the team has transferred out. Robertson has almost no chance of an NHL career. He was on the first D pairing, first PP unit, and alongside Rego got more TOI than anybody on the entire team. His team won back to back league championships and was one goal from the frozen four twice in his two years. He was going to one of the best schools in the world. Whatever was troubling Robertson this year about his situation, it seems unique to him. Or maybe he is uniquely disloyal.

There's so much we're never going to know. Maybe he loves non-contiguous states. Maybe he had a bad breakup and wants to change time zones. Maybe he's just over Ithaca.

i think the "no NIL in hockey" is probably overstated. especially if B1G wants to change that. beyond that though, i'll bet the facilities kick ass and his tuition payments are gone. Virginia isn't a hockey hotbed and idk enough about the USHL to know if his performance up to the time he committed here was good enough to get much attention (42A in 61G in his last season in Waterloo is nice though). i don't think much about loyalty. it's never a two-way street in sports. if you're going to speculate that he was uniquely unhappy, i'm going to counterspeculate that he wasn't unhappy at all but got a scholarship offer to a school on par with our own (hockey and classroom) that wasn't on the table two years ago.

Robertson was if I recall correctly the second highest scoring D in the entire USHL (the best junior league) and ranked by NHL Central Scouting. He wasn't flying under the radar the year prior to matriculating. Maybe he was slightly under the radar at the time he committed, but that describes pretty much EVERY Cornell recruit. And yet it's only Robertson, not Walsh or Castagna or Malinski or whoever else, who decided to ditch the program. If Robertson was happy in Ithaca but decided to ditch for money and better facilities, then we're staring at an extremely dark future for Cornell Hockey because that same offer is on the table for EVERY good player of ours.

Quote from: BearLover

Quote from: ugarte

Quote from: Dafatone

Quote from: BearLoverAnd now it's official. I'm honestly curious. We have had 0 decommits among the 20 or so kids who were committed at the time Casey took over. Nobody else on the team has transferred out. Robertson has almost no chance of an NHL career. He was on the first D pairing, first PP unit, and alongside Rego got more TOI than anybody on the entire team. His team won back to back league championships and was one goal from the frozen four twice in his two years. He was going to one of the best schools in the world. Whatever was troubling Robertson this year about his situation, it seems unique to him. Or maybe he is uniquely disloyal.

There's so much we're never going to know. Maybe he loves non-contiguous states. Maybe he had a bad breakup and wants to change time zones. Maybe he's just over Ithaca.

i think the "no NIL in hockey" is probably overstated. especially if B1G wants to change that. beyond that though, i'll bet the facilities kick ass and his tuition payments are gone. Virginia isn't a hockey hotbed and idk enough about the USHL to know if his performance up to the time he committed here was good enough to get much attention (42A in 61G in his last season in Waterloo is nice though). i don't think much about loyalty. it's never a two-way street in sports. if you're going to speculate that he was uniquely unhappy, i'm going to counterspeculate that he wasn't unhappy at all but got a scholarship offer to a school on par with our own (hockey and classroom) that wasn't on the table two years ago.

Robertson was if I recall correctly the second highest scoring D in the entire USHL (the best junior league) and ranked by NHL Central Scouting. He wasn't flying under the radar the year prior to matriculating. Maybe he was slightly under the radar at the time he committed, but that describes pretty much EVERY Cornell recruit. And yet it's only Robertson, not Walsh or Castagna or Malinski or whoever else, who decided to ditch the program. If Robertson was happy in Ithaca but decided to ditch for money and better facilities, then we're staring at an extremely dark future for Cornell Hockey because that same offer is on the table for EVERY good player of ours.

always has been. i don't pretend to know robertson's circumstances or preferences. we might be in very dark times but just add it to the list, man.

Quote from: ugarte

Quote from: BearLover

Quote from: ugarte

Quote from: Dafatone

Quote from: BearLoverAnd now it's official. I'm honestly curious. We have had 0 decommits among the 20 or so kids who were committed at the time Casey took over. Nobody else on the team has transferred out. Robertson has almost no chance of an NHL career. He was on the first D pairing, first PP unit, and alongside Rego got more TOI than anybody on the entire team. His team won back to back league championships and was one goal from the frozen four twice in his two years. He was going to one of the best schools in the world. Whatever was troubling Robertson this year about his situation, it seems unique to him. Or maybe he is uniquely disloyal.

There's so much we're never going to know. Maybe he loves non-contiguous states. Maybe he had a bad breakup and wants to change time zones. Maybe he's just over Ithaca.

i think the "no NIL in hockey" is probably overstated. especially if B1G wants to change that. beyond that though, i'll bet the facilities kick ass and his tuition payments are gone. Virginia isn't a hockey hotbed and idk enough about the USHL to know if his performance up to the time he committed here was good enough to get much attention (42A in 61G in his last season in Waterloo is nice though). i don't think much about loyalty. it's never a two-way street in sports. if you're going to speculate that he was uniquely unhappy, i'm going to counterspeculate that he wasn't unhappy at all but got a scholarship offer to a school on par with our own (hockey and classroom) that wasn't on the table two years ago.

Robertson was if I recall correctly the second highest scoring D in the entire USHL (the best junior league) and ranked by NHL Central Scouting. He wasn't flying under the radar the year prior to matriculating. Maybe he was slightly under the radar at the time he committed, but that describes pretty much EVERY Cornell recruit. And yet it's only Robertson, not Walsh or Castagna or Malinski or whoever else, who decided to ditch the program. If Robertson was happy in Ithaca but decided to ditch for money and better facilities, then we're staring at an extremely dark future for Cornell Hockey because that same offer is on the table for EVERY good player of ours.

always has been. i don't pretend to know robertson's circumstances or preferences. we might be in very dark times but just add it to the list, man.

Unless this becomes a trend, I think it's reasonable infer this is a Robertson thing (academics, not liking the coaches, struck out with all the sorority girls), not an NIL or Big 10 thing. There are a lot of great players on Cornell who could have left anytime they wanted.

Quote from: BearLover

Quote from: ugarte

Quote from: BearLover

Quote from: ugarte

Quote from: Dafatone

Quote from: BearLoverAnd now it's official. I'm honestly curious. We have had 0 decommits among the 20 or so kids who were committed at the time Casey took over. Nobody else on the team has transferred out. Robertson has almost no chance of an NHL career. He was on the first D pairing, first PP unit, and alongside Rego got more TOI than anybody on the entire team. His team won back to back league championships and was one goal from the frozen four twice in his two years. He was going to one of the best schools in the world. Whatever was troubling Robertson this year about his situation, it seems unique to him. Or maybe he is uniquely disloyal.

There's so much we're never going to know. Maybe he loves non-contiguous states. Maybe he had a bad breakup and wants to change time zones. Maybe he's just over Ithaca.

i think the "no NIL in hockey" is probably overstated. especially if B1G wants to change that. beyond that though, i'll bet the facilities kick ass and his tuition payments are gone. Virginia isn't a hockey hotbed and idk enough about the USHL to know if his performance up to the time he committed here was good enough to get much attention (42A in 61G in his last season in Waterloo is nice though). i don't think much about loyalty. it's never a two-way street in sports. if you're going to speculate that he was uniquely unhappy, i'm going to counterspeculate that he wasn't unhappy at all but got a scholarship offer to a school on par with our own (hockey and classroom) that wasn't on the table two years ago.

Robertson was if I recall correctly the second highest scoring D in the entire USHL (the best junior league) and ranked by NHL Central Scouting. He wasn't flying under the radar the year prior to matriculating. Maybe he was slightly under the radar at the time he committed, but that describes pretty much EVERY Cornell recruit. And yet it's only Robertson, not Walsh or Castagna or Malinski or whoever else, who decided to ditch the program. If Robertson was happy in Ithaca but decided to ditch for money and better facilities, then we're staring at an extremely dark future for Cornell Hockey because that same offer is on the table for EVERY good player of ours.

always has been. i don't pretend to know robertson's circumstances or preferences. we might be in very dark times but just add it to the list, man.

Unless this becomes a trend, I think it's reasonable infer this is a Robertson thing (academics, not liking the coaches, struck out with all the sorority girls), not an NIL or Big 10 thing. There are a lot of great players on Cornell who could have left anytime they wanted.

ok fine but you don't have to wish his dog dies because of it

Quote from: ugarte

Quote from: BearLover

Quote from: ugarte

Quote from: BearLover

Quote from: ugarte

Quote from: Dafatone

Quote from: BearLoverAnd now it's official. I'm honestly curious. We have had 0 decommits among the 20 or so kids who were committed at the time Casey took over. Nobody else on the team has transferred out. Robertson has almost no chance of an NHL career. He was on the first D pairing, first PP unit, and alongside Rego got more TOI than anybody on the entire team. His team won back to back league championships and was one goal from the frozen four twice in his two years. He was going to one of the best schools in the world. Whatever was troubling Robertson this year about his situation, it seems unique to him. Or maybe he is uniquely disloyal.

There's so much we're never going to know. Maybe he loves non-contiguous states. Maybe he had a bad breakup and wants to change time zones. Maybe he's just over Ithaca.

i think the "no NIL in hockey" is probably overstated. especially if B1G wants to change that. beyond that though, i'll bet the facilities kick ass and his tuition payments are gone. Virginia isn't a hockey hotbed and idk enough about the USHL to know if his performance up to the time he committed here was good enough to get much attention (42A in 61G in his last season in Waterloo is nice though). i don't think much about loyalty. it's never a two-way street in sports. if you're going to speculate that he was uniquely unhappy, i'm going to counterspeculate that he wasn't unhappy at all but got a scholarship offer to a school on par with our own (hockey and classroom) that wasn't on the table two years ago.

Robertson was if I recall correctly the second highest scoring D in the entire USHL (the best junior league) and ranked by NHL Central Scouting. He wasn't flying under the radar the year prior to matriculating. Maybe he was slightly under the radar at the time he committed, but that describes pretty much EVERY Cornell recruit. And yet it's only Robertson, not Walsh or Castagna or Malinski or whoever else, who decided to ditch the program. If Robertson was happy in Ithaca but decided to ditch for money and better facilities, then we're staring at an extremely dark future for Cornell Hockey because that same offer is on the table for EVERY good player of ours.

always has been. i don't pretend to know robertson's circumstances or preferences. we might be in very dark times but just add it to the list, man.

Unless this becomes a trend, I think it's reasonable infer this is a Robertson thing (academics, not liking the coaches, struck out with all the sorority girls), not an NIL or Big 10 thing. There are a lot of great players on Cornell who could have left anytime they wanted.

ok fine but you don't have to wish his dog dies because of it

How about poisoning his dog?

Seriously, I've had D-1 athletes tell me they never realized how much of a business D-1 sports are until they started college. Maybe for Robinson it was a business decision, pure and simple.

There's only one way to wash off this stink. It rhymes with "gornell bacross pinning a washional quampionship."

The fact that he's at Michigan tells me it's less about academic reasons and more about other stuff (perhaps financial aid). Maybe we find out more later or maybe we don't

Quote from: BearLoverOr maybe he is uniquely disloyal.

Please go away with this nonsense.

If you want to play in the NHL, via NCAA Hockey, you go play at Michigan, or the like. Not that we don't make NHL players, but the shot is better from Ann Arbor. Simple.

Quote from: The RancorIf you want to play in the NHL, via NCAA Hockey, you go play at Michigan, or the like. Not that we don't make NHL players, but the shot is better from Ann Arbor. Simple.

Nope. Your causation is backwards.

Quote from: The Rancor

Quote from: BearLoverOr maybe he is uniquely disloyal.

Please go away with this nonsense.

He bailed on his school and his teammates when nobody else did.

Let's move on from this.

How about this headline in the NYT:

Canada Reschedules Political Debate That Conflicted With a Hockey Game

There's a country with the right priorities!

Quote from: SnowballLet's move on from this.

How about this headline in the NYT:

Canada Reschedules Political Debate That Conflicted With a Hockey Game

There's a country with the right priorities!

Amen!

Quote from: DafatoneThere's so much we're never going to know. Maybe he loves non-contiguous states.

Got a chuckle out of that. Though I would point out that Michigan does not hold an advantage over New York in that regard. Must be for some other reason. :-D

Quote from: HeafDog

Quote from: DafatoneThere's so much we're never going to know. Maybe he loves non-contiguous states.

Got a chuckle out of that. Though I would point out that Michigan does not hold an advantage over New York in that regard. Must be for some other reason. :-D

I was actually talking about this recently with someone. New York also qualifies, but so does every state with an island, which is less exciting.

Quote from: The Rancor

Quote from: BearLoverOr maybe he is uniquely disloyal.

Please go away with this nonsense.

FYP!

Quote from: DafatoneI was actually talking about this recently with someone. New York also qualifies, but so does every state with an island, which is less exciting.

How about "non-contiguous states that look like a mitten"?

Quote from: Give My Regards

Quote from: DafatoneI was actually talking about this recently with someone. New York also qualifies, but so does every state with an island, which is less exciting.

How about "non-contiguous states that look like a mitten"?

live look at robertson:

To think NIL is not involved in college hockey is really off base. Some Big Ten schools are floating upwards of $100,000/year at players - currently. It would be pretty obvious Robertson got something, plus a full ride. Who knows his family's financial situation. No one here should judge - and no one here should assume anything negative about Cornell because of it.  I personally think teams like Cornell will generally be fine from this - because if you go to an Ivy, you know the financial thing going in.  But if one kid/one family is enticed by that - then so be it.  Maybe there are other family connections, or something, to Michigan too. I believe if the goaltending situation settles, Cornell will be near the top of the ECAC again, as usual. Stellar recruiting classes coming up.  Hopefully they can dip into the CHL pipeline as well.

Fegaras, Stanley, Veilleux, Fisher has the makings of a really good D, even without Robertson.

Quote from: adamwTo think NIL is not involved in college hockey is really off base. Some Big Ten schools are floating upwards of $100,000/year at players - currently. It would be pretty obvious Robertson got something, plus a full ride.

The notion that $100,000 payments are remotely commonplace directly contradicts this article: https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2024/08/31/business/nil-money-ncaa.html

The chart at the end says annual NIL earnings for men's hockey players is $3,518 among the "top 50 players at their position."

Anecdotally, we have high draft picks like William Whitelaw transferring from  Michigan to Western Michigan, which offers no NIL. We have articles like this saying BU, which recruits better than any school in the country, does not have NIL: https://hockey.dailyfreepress.com/2024/09/27/joe-pereira-bu-hockeys-not-so-secret-weapon/. Why would Boisvert transfer somewhere with almost no NIL if he could get $100K at Minnesota? There are top players from Big 10 schools bolting for AHL deals that pay $75K or less.

Outside of some specific cases like Snuggerud returning to Minnesota for his junior season, player movement seems largely consistent with this NYT study. If NIL matters in college hockey, the effect seems small. I have yet to see, anywhere on the internet, a single documented example of an NCAA player receiving high NIL. Can somebody point me to one?

Quote from: BearLover

Quote from: adamwTo think NIL is not involved in college hockey is really off base. Some Big Ten schools are floating upwards of $100,000/year at players - currently. It would be pretty obvious Robertson got something, plus a full ride.

The notion that $100,000 payments are remotely commonplace directly contradicts this article: https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2024/08/31/business/nil-money-ncaa.html

The chart at the end says annual NIL earnings for men's hockey players is $3,518 among the "top 50 players at their position."

Anecdotally, we have high draft picks like William Whitelaw transferring from  Michigan to Western Michigan, which offers no NIL. We have articles like this saying BU, which recruits better than any school in the country, does not have NIL: https://hockey.dailyfreepress.com/2024/09/27/joe-pereira-bu-hockeys-not-so-secret-weapon/. Why would Boisvert transfer somewhere with almost no NIL if he could get $100K at Minnesota? There are top players from Big 10 schools bolting for AHL deals that pay $75K or less.

Outside of some specific cases like Snuggerud returning to Minnesota for his junior season, player movement seems largely consistent with this NYT study. If NIL matters in college hockey, the effect seems small. I have yet to see, anywhere on the internet, a single documented example of an NCAA player receiving high NIL. Can somebody point me to one?

I can't believe you are once again arguing with a hockey journalist about who is better informed about reputable sources.  

Those articles are from August and September of last year, and the world is already much different the closer we get to the House settlement being finalized.  And you're citing one vague line from a random blog that happens to have the word NIL in it - that's not a good data point.

But let's take the NYTimes article.  It's well sourced and has actual data.  Except you read neither Adam's post nor the article closely.

Quote from: Adam saidSome Big Ten schools are floating upwards of $100,000/year at players - currently

-he said some BIG schools. He didn't say it was commonplace or that they were tossing it at the whole roster - and he clearly notes that it's the current state of play.  


You also didn't read the article from the NYT closely enough.  You missed two critical details in the article about the datase.


1. "There is no universal requirement for athletes to disclose how much they are being paid. Less than a third of the money that student athletes are making is publicly known, according to Opendorse."   (This makes it likely that the numbers reported are lower than the reality)

2. The fine print beneath the data tables is kinda important.  Looking at the searchable table by sport at the end of the article, the fine print says

QuoteSource: Opendorse. Data is based on N.I.L. transactions disclosed through or processed by Opendorse between July 1, 2021, and June 30, 2024.. Note: To be included in the calculations, players' expected annual earnings must rank in at least the top 50 at their position. The Track/Cross Country category includes athletes in track and field.

So that $3,518 number you are quoting is trailing far behind current times; there definitely wasn't much NIL getting paid in any sport in 2021, and NIL spend seems to be increasing exponentially in the last couple years. And that's additive to the prior note about only having 1/3 the data.  So it stands to argue that the numbers they are reporting are going to be significantly lower than the current reality.

You chose an out of date, partial dataset that has no relation to either reality or what Adam said. And because I 've seen you make this argument before, I'll preempt it: things are not definitionally untrue just because they haven't been published by someone yet. There are plenty of facts out there that are known to the few or the many but don't get published for a variety of reasons.

Now if only you were a man of your word and were actually bearlover out like you said you were, what, 3x already?

Quote from: BearLoverRobertson has almost no chance of an NHL career.

I wasn't even considering the possibility that Jacob MacDonald or Joakim Ryan would play in the NHL based on their time at Cornell yet both have played in the league.  Maybe you wouldn't call it a career but since I don't think Cornell turns out finished products it's kind of hard to really know

Quote from: VIEWfromK

Quote from: BearLoverRobertson has almost no chance of an NHL career.

I wasn't even considering the possibility that Jacob MacDonald or Joakim Ryan would play in the NHL based on their time at Cornell yet both have played in the league.  Maybe you wouldn't call it a career but since I don't think Cornell turns out finished products it's kind of hard to really know

Also, important to remember that you can make a career out of professional hockey without being in the NHL.

Quote from: Dafatone

Quote from: VIEWfromK

Quote from: BearLoverRobertson has almost no chance of an NHL career.

I wasn't even considering the possibility that Jacob MacDonald or Joakim Ryan would play in the NHL based on their time at Cornell yet both have played in the league.  Maybe you wouldn't call it a career but since I don't think Cornell turns out finished products it's kind of hard to really know

Also, important to remember that you can make a career out of professional hockey without being in the NHL.

The chance of having an NHL career is practically nill for almost all hockey players, TBF.

If someone gives you $100K thats great.  but hardly life altering.
Once you take out the agents cut of 10-20% so 80k
Then income tax of 20k and state tax of whatever say 5k

So you net about 50K

Also a good chance its not 100K, what if its half

50k - 10K - 10k - 3k.  so he nets like 25K.

The full ride thing is for real though if thats a perk

Quote from: The Rancor

Quote from: Dafatone

Quote from: VIEWfromK

Quote from: BearLoverRobertson has almost no chance of an NHL career.

I wasn't even considering the possibility that Jacob MacDonald or Joakim Ryan would play in the NHL based on their time at Cornell, yet both have played in the league.  Maybe you wouldn't call it a career but since I don't think Cornell turns out finished products it's kind of hard to really know

Also, important to remember that you can make a career out of professional hockey without being in the NHL.

The chance of having an NHL career is practically nill for almost all hockey players, TBF.

So bearlover says he's got basically zero chance of an NHL career. That's quite possible, but at the same time, I wonder how many on this board would have thought he could crack the Michigan lineup if we took a poll three weeks ago?  I'm betting 30% or fewer.  Yet Michigan clearly sees something in him.

EDIT: Question to all: Malinski is holding down a regular NHL spot these days. How many of us thought he'd get there after his freshman year - and compare/contrast memories of Malinski's frosh year vs. Robertson's.   They had similar stats and are listed as about the same size. Sam listed that year @ 5'11 190, 21yo at season's end. Ben listed that year at 5'11 181 and was 19 at season's end


Think back to his freshman year - We were all marveling at his passing abilities all the time - wondering where he even saw the lanes from. This year though was definitely worse, and who knows why.  Maybe he was unhappy here for some reason- be it academic, financial, athletic or unknown injuries. Maybe Casey had planned to use him next year in a different fashion than Ben liked. Or here's another reasonable angle: he's an offensive defenseman - and maybe he feels his development was held back here because of our style.   And in order to develop HIS game that suits him best, he needed to go somewhere that plays a different kind of game.,  That's Michigan. They play a far more Uptempo style and he'll be playing with much higher end talent, plus getting in more games a year against higher caliber opposition.  

It's not a guarantee of getting to the show, but it sounds like a very reasonable path to take if you believe that your best shot is to maximize your game in that mold.  We haven't had a lot of guys over the years that could've played for Michigan, apart from many of our goaltenders I guess.  My point being that hockey-wise, I'm never going to knock a cornell player that is offered the chance to play for Michigan instead and takes it (even if there is no monetary difference at all).  Hockey-wise it's rarified air.  I say that as one of the many on here who went CU undergrad and Michigan grad and spent a few years at Yost (there are at least 5 of us off the top of my head).  I wouldn't expect anyone to disagree who had only seen a bunch of Michigan games on TV, but when you see the talent difference in person over 15+ games a year it's just not arguable.

Quote from: The Rancor

Quote from: Dafatone

Quote from: VIEWfromK

Quote from: BearLoverRobertson has almost no chance of an NHL career.

I wasn't even considering the possibility that Jacob MacDonald or Joakim Ryan would play in the NHL based on their time at Cornell yet both have played in the league.  Maybe you wouldn't call it a career but since I don't think Cornell turns out finished products it's kind of hard to really know

Also, important to remember that you can make a career out of professional hockey without being in the NHL.

The chance of having an NHL career is practically nill for almost all hockey players, TBF.

Yes.  Better comparison is to expand the numerator to any professional league, and reduce the denominator to D1.  

And as for "career," maybe rescope to "just enough money to live on while figuring out what soul-devouring 9-to-5 wage slavery you want to do like the rest of us who can't even skate backwards."

Quote from: BearLover

Quote from: adamwTo think NIL is not involved in college hockey is really off base. Some Big Ten schools are floating upwards of $100,000/year at players - currently. It would be pretty obvious Robertson got something, plus a full ride.

The notion that $100,000 payments are remotely commonplace directly contradicts this article: https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2024/08/31/business/nil-money-ncaa.html

The chart at the end says annual NIL earnings for men's hockey players is $3,518 among the "top 50 players at their position."

Anecdotally, we have high draft picks like William Whitelaw transferring from  Michigan to Western Michigan, which offers no NIL. We have articles like this saying BU, which recruits better than any school in the country, does not have NIL: https://hockey.dailyfreepress.com/2024/09/27/joe-pereira-bu-hockeys-not-so-secret-weapon/. Why would Boisvert transfer somewhere with almost no NIL if he could get $100K at Minnesota? There are top players from Big 10 schools bolting for AHL deals that pay $75K or less.

Outside of some specific cases like Snuggerud returning to Minnesota for his junior season, player movement seems largely consistent with this NYT study. If NIL matters in college hockey, the effect seems small. I have yet to see, anywhere on the internet, a single documented example of an NCAA player receiving high NIL. Can somebody point me to one?

Look dude -- the idea that Western isn't giving NIL is also laughable. I know for a fact numerous players on their team that are. Someone floated out there that thing about Western not giving NIL, and a couple of us just literally laughed at it.

What's your definition of "commonplace"? You sure love to twist words into something that sounds more extreme than was actually said, eh?

As for why Whitelaw would transfer? Again, no one said every B10 player was getting 100,000 - never said anything remotely close to that. He's been underwhelming at Michigan, and he's going to a place where forwards become the best version of themselves. Not a shocker there. He'll probably get some NIL, but I'm sure it wasn't his main factor or relevant (or contradictory) to this discussion. Isaac Howard will probably get between 50 and 100k to return to Michigan State - but that wasn't the main factor in his decision. It was his inability to burn a year on his ELC that was the main factor.  A lot goes into these things.

Listen, I don't want to be an ass here and pull rank. I come here because I love Cornell hockey, despite the fact that I run a theoretically impartial web site. But I talk to a lot of people, all the time, especially at the Frozen Four. That includes agents, two of which I spoke to yesterday.  If I say something like this here, I assure you, I know what I'm talking about. And I can assure you I know more than 99% of the college hockey articles out there.  If it's just my opinion or guess, I'll make that clear too.  My comment about Robertson WAS speculation - but reasonably informed speculation based on the prevailing atmosphere, which is that players of HIS ILK - ARE getting NIL. I don't know that for a fact with Robertson - but I said it appears highly likely.

I'm giving this information here to be helpful - not to sound like a big shot.  If you don't want to believe me, so be it.

Quote from: abmarks

Quote from: BearLover

Quote from: adamwTo think NIL is not involved in college hockey is really off base. Some Big Ten schools are floating upwards of $100,000/year at players - currently. It would be pretty obvious Robertson got something, plus a full ride.

The notion that $100,000 payments are remotely commonplace directly contradicts this article: https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2024/08/31/business/nil-money-ncaa.html

The chart at the end says annual NIL earnings for men's hockey players is $3,518 among the "top 50 players at their position."

Anecdotally, we have high draft picks like William Whitelaw transferring from  Michigan to Western Michigan, which offers no NIL. We have articles like this saying BU, which recruits better than any school in the country, does not have NIL: https://hockey.dailyfreepress.com/2024/09/27/joe-pereira-bu-hockeys-not-so-secret-weapon/. Why would Boisvert transfer somewhere with almost no NIL if he could get $100K at Minnesota? There are top players from Big 10 schools bolting for AHL deals that pay $75K or less.

Outside of some specific cases like Snuggerud returning to Minnesota for his junior season, player movement seems largely consistent with this NYT study. If NIL matters in college hockey, the effect seems small. I have yet to see, anywhere on the internet, a single documented example of an NCAA player receiving high NIL. Can somebody point me to one?

I can't believe you are once again arguing with a hockey journalist about who is better informed about reputable sources.  

Those articles are from August and September of last year, and the world is already much different the closer we get to the House settlement being finalized.  And you're citing one vague line from a random blog that happens to have the word NIL in it - that's not a good data point.

But let's take the NYTimes article.  It's well sourced and has actual data.  Except you read neither Adam's post nor the article closely.

Quote from: Adam saidSome Big Ten schools are floating upwards of $100,000/year at players - currently

-he said some BIG schools. He didn't say it was commonplace or that they were tossing it at the whole roster - and he clearly notes that it's the current state of play.  


You also didn't read the article from the NYT closely enough.  You missed two critical details in the article about the datase.


1. "There is no universal requirement for athletes to disclose how much they are being paid. Less than a third of the money that student athletes are making is publicly known, according to Opendorse."   (This makes it likely that the numbers reported are lower than the reality)

2. The fine print beneath the data tables is kinda important.  Looking at the searchable table by sport at the end of the article, the fine print says

QuoteSource: Opendorse. Data is based on N.I.L. transactions disclosed through or processed by Opendorse between July 1, 2021, and June 30, 2024.. Note: To be included in the calculations, players' expected annual earnings must rank in at least the top 50 at their position. The Track/Cross Country category includes athletes in track and field.

So that $3,518 number you are quoting is trailing far behind current times; there definitely wasn't much NIL getting paid in any sport in 2021, and NIL spend seems to be increasing exponentially in the last couple years. And that's additive to the prior note about only having 1/3 the data.  So it stands to argue that the numbers they are reporting are going to be significantly lower than the current reality.

You chose an out of date, partial dataset that has no relation to either reality or what Adam said. And because I 've seen you make this argument before, I'll preempt it: things are not definitionally untrue just because they haven't been published by someone yet. There are plenty of facts out there that are known to the few or the many but don't get published for a variety of reasons.

Now if only you were a man of your word and were actually bearlover out like you said you were, what, 3x already?

"Adam said some B1G schools, not all schools"
If some B1G schools were paying 100K, that would be reflected in the data. It is mathematically impossible for the average to be as low as 3K if multiple players were making 100K.

"The dataset contains only 1/3 of players (making it likely the numbers reported are lower than reality)"
Uhh, couldn't it just as easily be higher than reality?

"The dataset is outdated"
Yes, and I've mentioned this other times when I've referenced this article. But the FB and BB numbers are largely in line with what's been reported recently.

"NIL seems to be increasing exponentially"
Nope. Not exponentially. And there's absolutely no evidence this is the case in hockey or other non-revenue sports.

"The data is lacking"
Yes, it is lacking. I've been clear about this when I've referred to this article in the past. And yet, it is the ONLY data we have on this issue. We have NOTHING else to go by, other than rumors and anecdotes.

"I can't believe you are once again arguing with a hockey journalist"
Appeal to authority fallacy. Which is funny, coming from you, because I'm sure you'd be bitching and moaning about me doing the same thing if the shoe were on the other foot.

Will deal with more object-level disagreements in my reply to Adam when I have a moment.

Quote from: abmarks

Quote from: The Rancor

Quote from: Dafatone

Quote from: VIEWfromK

Quote from: BearLoverRobertson has almost no chance of an NHL career.

I wasn't even considering the possibility that Jacob MacDonald or Joakim Ryan would play in the NHL based on their time at Cornell, yet both have played in the league.  Maybe you wouldn't call it a career but since I don't think Cornell turns out finished products it's kind of hard to really know

Also, important to remember that you can make a career out of professional hockey without being in the NHL.

The chance of having an NHL career is practically nill for almost all hockey players, TBF.

So bearlover says he's got basically zero chance of an NHL career. That's quite possible, but at the same time, I wonder how many on this board would have thought he could crack the Michigan lineup if we took a poll three weeks ago?  I'm betting 30% or fewer.  Yet Michigan clearly sees something in him.

I'm sorry, but this is a grossly misinformed post. You shouldn't be screaming at other posters about their hockey opinions if you are so out of touch.

Any person who actually follows college hockey knew, 3 weeks ago, 1 year ago, even 2 years ago, that Robertson would not only crack Michigan's lineup but instantly be one of their top defensemen.

Anyway. I'm happy Robertson is going somewhere where he'll likely have better opportunities to show off his abilities and make it to the big leagues, and I wish him the best. Just not at Lynah ;)

Quote from: adamw

Quote from: BearLover

Quote from: adamwTo think NIL is not involved in college hockey is really off base. Some Big Ten schools are floating upwards of $100,000/year at players - currently. It would be pretty obvious Robertson got something, plus a full ride.

The notion that $100,000 payments are remotely commonplace directly contradicts this article: https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2024/08/31/business/nil-money-ncaa.html

The chart at the end says annual NIL earnings for men's hockey players is $3,518 among the "top 50 players at their position."

Anecdotally, we have high draft picks like William Whitelaw transferring from  Michigan to Western Michigan, which offers no NIL. We have articles like this saying BU, which recruits better than any school in the country, does not have NIL: https://hockey.dailyfreepress.com/2024/09/27/joe-pereira-bu-hockeys-not-so-secret-weapon/. Why would Boisvert transfer somewhere with almost no NIL if he could get $100K at Minnesota? There are top players from Big 10 schools bolting for AHL deals that pay $75K or less.

Outside of some specific cases like Snuggerud returning to Minnesota for his junior season, player movement seems largely consistent with this NYT study. If NIL matters in college hockey, the effect seems small. I have yet to see, anywhere on the internet, a single documented example of an NCAA player receiving high NIL. Can somebody point me to one?

Look dude -- the idea that Western isn't giving NIL is also laughable. I know for a fact numerous players on their team that are. Someone floated out there that thing about Western not giving NIL, and a couple of us just literally laughed at it.

What's your definition of "commonplace"? You sure love to twist words into something that sounds more extreme than was actually said, eh?

As for why Whitelaw would transfer? Again, no one said every B10 player was getting 100,000 - never said anything remotely close to that. He's been underwhelming at Michigan, and he's going to a place where forwards become the best version of themselves. Not a shocker there. He'll probably get some NIL, but I'm sure it wasn't his main factor or relevant (or contradictory) to this discussion. Isaac Howard will probably get between 50 and 100k to return to Michigan State - but that wasn't the main factor in his decision. It was his inability to burn a year on his ELC that was the main factor.  A lot goes into these things.

Listen, I don't want to be an ass here and pull rank. I come here because I love Cornell hockey, despite the fact that I run a theoretically impartial web site. But I talk to a lot of people, all the time, especially at the Frozen Four. That includes agents, two of which I spoke to yesterday.  If I say something like this here, I assure you, I know what I'm talking about. And I can assure you I know more than 99% of the college hockey articles out there.  If it's just my opinion or guess, I'll make that clear too.  My comment about Robertson WAS speculation - but reasonably informed speculation based on the prevailing atmosphere, which is that players of HIS ILK - ARE getting NIL. I don't know that for a fact with Robertson - but I said it appears highly likely.

I'm giving this information here to be helpful - not to sound like a big shot.  If you don't want to believe me, so be it.

On Western "giving" NIL:
You'll have to define what you mean by "giving" NIL. If you mean "some players on the team earn NIL," which is what it seems based on the following sentences, then by that standard Cornell also gives NIL. Many athletes, even at Cornell, are making small amounts of money from NIL websites or sponsorships that they sought out individually. Which is vastly different from huge NIL collectives or NIL earnings in the five figures. So while yes, I'm certain that players on WMU earned NIL from local partnerships or jersey sales, these figures are likely so small as to not move the needle at all. Anyway, this is where the "WMU has no NIL" stuff is coming from:
https://www.barstoolsports.com/blog/3542779/for-the-love-of-the-game-western-michigan-won-the-college-hockey-national-championship-without-spending-a-single-penny-on-nil

I'm not endorsing Barstool as a source. But to be fair, the hockey podcast hosts are fairly well sourced in the hockey world. I suspect NIL at WMU is extremely minimal even though it technically does exist.

On my definition of "commonplace":
I guess my definition is that it's common enough to have real bearing on Robertson's situation, which is what we're discussing here. So, is it common outside the top very few players.

On Isaac Howard "probably getting between 50k and 100k to return":
Well, yeah, that wouldn't shock me. He's definitionally the best player in all of college hockey this year and going into next year he certainly will be. He's one of the few players who COULD be getting that much NIL. But if the absolute best player is getting maybe as low as 50K, what does that mean for somebody like Robertson?

My guess: Robertson will get some NIL at Michigan. But not a ton. How much of that will be funneled to him through collectives, or was promised to him when he committed, I don't know. I would guess he'll earn no more than 15K. After taxes, agent percentages, etc., maybe he takes home an extra 10K. And that's being generous, tbh. It's also way higher than the 3.5K in the NYT piece I linked to.

Quote from: BearLover

Quote from: adamw

Quote from: BearLover

Quote from: adamwTo think NIL is not involved in college hockey is really off base. Some Big Ten schools are floating upwards of $100,000/year at players - currently. It would be pretty obvious Robertson got something, plus a full ride.

The notion that $100,000 payments are remotely commonplace directly contradicts this article: https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2024/08/31/business/nil-money-ncaa.html

The chart at the end says annual NIL earnings for men's hockey players is $3,518 among the "top 50 players at their position."

Anecdotally, we have high draft picks like William Whitelaw transferring from  Michigan to Western Michigan, which offers no NIL. We have articles like this saying BU, which recruits better than any school in the country, does not have NIL: https://hockey.dailyfreepress.com/2024/09/27/joe-pereira-bu-hockeys-not-so-secret-weapon/. Why would Boisvert transfer somewhere with almost no NIL if he could get $100K at Minnesota? There are top players from Big 10 schools bolting for AHL deals that pay $75K or less.

Outside of some specific cases like Snuggerud returning to Minnesota for his junior season, player movement seems largely consistent with this NYT study. If NIL matters in college hockey, the effect seems small. I have yet to see, anywhere on the internet, a single documented example of an NCAA player receiving high NIL. Can somebody point me to one?

Look dude -- the idea that Western isn't giving NIL is also laughable. I know for a fact numerous players on their team that are. Someone floated out there that thing about Western not giving NIL, and a couple of us just literally laughed at it.

What's your definition of "commonplace"? You sure love to twist words into something that sounds more extreme than was actually said, eh?

As for why Whitelaw would transfer? Again, no one said every B10 player was getting 100,000 - never said anything remotely close to that. He's been underwhelming at Michigan, and he's going to a place where forwards become the best version of themselves. Not a shocker there. He'll probably get some NIL, but I'm sure it wasn't his main factor or relevant (or contradictory) to this discussion. Isaac Howard will probably get between 50 and 100k to return to Michigan State - but that wasn't the main factor in his decision. It was his inability to burn a year on his ELC that was the main factor.  A lot goes into these things.

Listen, I don't want to be an ass here and pull rank. I come here because I love Cornell hockey, despite the fact that I run a theoretically impartial web site. But I talk to a lot of people, all the time, especially at the Frozen Four. That includes agents, two of which I spoke to yesterday.  If I say something like this here, I assure you, I know what I'm talking about. And I can assure you I know more than 99% of the college hockey articles out there.  If it's just my opinion or guess, I'll make that clear too.  My comment about Robertson WAS speculation - but reasonably informed speculation based on the prevailing atmosphere, which is that players of HIS ILK - ARE getting NIL. I don't know that for a fact with Robertson - but I said it appears highly likely.

I'm giving this information here to be helpful - not to sound like a big shot.  If you don't want to believe me, so be it.

On Western "giving" NIL:
You'll have to define what you mean by "giving" NIL.

No he doesn't - he doesn't have to waste his time on eLynah.

Quote from: marty

Quote from: BearLover

Quote from: adamw

Quote from: BearLover

Quote from: adamwTo think NIL is not involved in college hockey is really off base. Some Big Ten schools are floating upwards of $100,000/year at players - currently. It would be pretty obvious Robertson got something, plus a full ride.

The notion that $100,000 payments are remotely commonplace directly contradicts this article: https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2024/08/31/business/nil-money-ncaa.html

The chart at the end says annual NIL earnings for men's hockey players is $3,518 among the "top 50 players at their position."

Anecdotally, we have high draft picks like William Whitelaw transferring from  Michigan to Western Michigan, which offers no NIL. We have articles like this saying BU, which recruits better than any school in the country, does not have NIL: https://hockey.dailyfreepress.com/2024/09/27/joe-pereira-bu-hockeys-not-so-secret-weapon/. Why would Boisvert transfer somewhere with almost no NIL if he could get $100K at Minnesota? There are top players from Big 10 schools bolting for AHL deals that pay $75K or less.

Outside of some specific cases like Snuggerud returning to Minnesota for his junior season, player movement seems largely consistent with this NYT study. If NIL matters in college hockey, the effect seems small. I have yet to see, anywhere on the internet, a single documented example of an NCAA player receiving high NIL. Can somebody point me to one?

Look dude -- the idea that Western isn't giving NIL is also laughable. I know for a fact numerous players on their team that are. Someone floated out there that thing about Western not giving NIL, and a couple of us just literally laughed at it.

What's your definition of "commonplace"? You sure love to twist words into something that sounds more extreme than was actually said, eh?

As for why Whitelaw would transfer? Again, no one said every B10 player was getting 100,000 - never said anything remotely close to that. He's been underwhelming at Michigan, and he's going to a place where forwards become the best version of themselves. Not a shocker there. He'll probably get some NIL, but I'm sure it wasn't his main factor or relevant (or contradictory) to this discussion. Isaac Howard will probably get between 50 and 100k to return to Michigan State - but that wasn't the main factor in his decision. It was his inability to burn a year on his ELC that was the main factor.  A lot goes into these things.

Listen, I don't want to be an ass here and pull rank. I come here because I love Cornell hockey, despite the fact that I run a theoretically impartial web site. But I talk to a lot of people, all the time, especially at the Frozen Four. That includes agents, two of which I spoke to yesterday.  If I say something like this here, I assure you, I know what I'm talking about. And I can assure you I know more than 99% of the college hockey articles out there.  If it's just my opinion or guess, I'll make that clear too.  My comment about Robertson WAS speculation - but reasonably informed speculation based on the prevailing atmosphere, which is that players of HIS ILK - ARE getting NIL. I don't know that for a fact with Robertson - but I said it appears highly likely.

I'm giving this information here to be helpful - not to sound like a big shot.  If you don't want to believe me, so be it.

On Western "giving" NIL:
You'll have to define what you mean by "giving" NIL.

No he doesn't - he doesn't have to waste his time on eLynah.

Okay, thank you for this literal interpretation of my post which was obviously not a demand for him to do anything. Maybe you are unfamiliar with basic English expressions like "you'll have to explain that to me later," which, once again, is not a demand but rather a figure of speech.

Quote from: stereaxAnyway. I'm happy Robertson is going somewhere where he'll likely have better opportunities to show off his abilities and make it to the big leagues, and I wish him the best. Just not at Lynah ;)

I'm old enough to remember when this was the normal, standard response to such news. Or something along the lines of "well, that's too bad. Something like this is a personal decision and I'm sure he has his reasons."  This year, we're turning everything into a Warren Commission investigation.

My take? Well, that's too bad. Something like this is a personal decision and I'm sure he has his reasons.

Quote from: RichH

Quote from: stereaxAnyway. I'm happy Robertson is going somewhere where he'll likely have better opportunities to show off his abilities and make it to the big leagues, and I wish him the best. Just not at Lynah ;)

I'm old enough to remember when this was the normal, standard response to such news. Or something along the lines of "well, that's too bad. Something like this is a personal decision and I'm sure he has his reasons."  This year, we're turning everything into a Warren Commission investigation.

My take? Well, that's too bad. Something like this is a personal decision and I'm sure he has his reasons.

+1

Quote from: RichH

Quote from: stereaxAnyway. I'm happy Robertson is going somewhere where he'll likely have better opportunities to show off his abilities and make it to the big leagues, and I wish him the best. Just not at Lynah ;)

I'm old enough to remember when this was the normal, standard response to such news. Or something along the lines of "well, that's too bad. Something like this is a personal decision and I'm sure he has his reasons."  This year, we're turning everything into a Warren Commission investigation.

My take? Well, that's too bad. Something like this is a personal decision and I'm sure he has his reasons.

Wondering if we still need to have "investigative reporting" done on why the first half of the season was disappointing.

Quote from: Al DeFlorio

Quote from: RichH

Quote from: stereaxAnyway. I'm happy Robertson is going somewhere where he'll likely have better opportunities to show off his abilities and make it to the big leagues, and I wish him the best. Just not at Lynah ;)

I'm old enough to remember when this was the normal, standard response to such news. Or something along the lines of "well, that's too bad. Something like this is a personal decision and I'm sure he has his reasons."  This year, we're turning everything into a Warren Commission investigation.

My take? Well, that's too bad. Something like this is a personal decision and I'm sure he has his reasons.

Wondering if we still need to have "investigative reporting" done on why the first half of the season was disappointing.

I'd love to see that! I'm so curious what happened and if it may have led to one of our best players transferring out. But at the same time, there are lots of good reasons why no such reporting exists, as interesting as it would be. Thanks for reviving this discussion btw!

Quote from: BearLover

Quote from: Al DeFlorio

Quote from: RichH

Quote from: stereaxAnyway. I'm happy Robertson is going somewhere where he'll likely have better opportunities to show off his abilities and make it to the big leagues, and I wish him the best. Just not at Lynah ;)

I'm old enough to remember when this was the normal, standard response to such news. Or something along the lines of "well, that's too bad. Something like this is a personal decision and I'm sure he has his reasons."  This year, we're turning everything into a Warren Commission investigation.

My take? Well, that's too bad. Something like this is a personal decision and I'm sure he has his reasons.

Wondering if we still need to have "investigative reporting" done on why the first half of the season was disappointing.

I'd love to see that! I'm so curious what happened and if it may have led to one of our best players transferring out. But at the same time, there are lots of good reasons why no such reporting exists, as interesting as it would be. Thanks for reviving this discussion btw!

Among many other matters, you don't comprehend sarcasm either.

Quote from: Al DeFlorio

Quote from: BearLover

Quote from: Al DeFlorio

Quote from: RichH

Quote from: stereaxAnyway. I'm happy Robertson is going somewhere where he'll likely have better opportunities to show off his abilities and make it to the big leagues, and I wish him the best. Just not at Lynah ;)

I'm old enough to remember when this was the normal, standard response to such news. Or something along the lines of "well, that's too bad. Something like this is a personal decision and I'm sure he has his reasons."  This year, we're turning everything into a Warren Commission investigation.

My take? Well, that's too bad. Something like this is a personal decision and I'm sure he has his reasons.

Wondering if we still need to have "investigative reporting" done on why the first half of the season was disappointing.

I'd love to see that! I'm so curious what happened and if it may have led to one of our best players transferring out. But at the same time, there are lots of good reasons why no such reporting exists, as interesting as it would be. Thanks for reviving this discussion btw!

Among many other matters, you don't comprehend sarcasm either.

There is somebody here who doesn't comprehend sarcasm, but it isn't me...

Quote from: dag14

Quote from: RichH

Quote from: stereaxAnyway. I'm happy Robertson is going somewhere where he'll likely have better opportunities to show off his abilities and make it to the big leagues, and I wish him the best. Just not at Lynah ;)

I'm old enough to remember when this was the normal, standard response to such news. Or something along the lines of "well, that's too bad. Something like this is a personal decision and I'm sure he has his reasons."  This year, we're turning everything into a Warren Commission investigation.

My take? Well, that's too bad. Something like this is a personal decision and I'm sure he has his reasons.

+2

Quote from: BearLover"Adam said some B1G schools, not all schools"
If some B1G schools were paying 100K, that would be reflected in the data. It is mathematically impossible for the average to be as low as 3K if multiple players were making 100K.

You still fail the ol' logic test. .

• That dataset ends as of June 2024.
• Adam said that there were some guys getting offered 100k "currently".
  
• if there are "offers" "currently", that implies offers being made now.   It doesn't imply that those offers were being made prior to the 24-25 season. And again, that data cuts off in June of 24.

As I noted in my earlier post, they say

QuoteData is based on N.I.L. transactions disclosed through or processed by Opendorse between July 1, 2021, and June 30, 2024..less than a third of the money that student athletes are making is publicly known .

Let's use Adam's example about Howard getting his 50-100k "to return".   That would be money for 25-26, so that's not captured in that dataset.   And even if it was in the timeframe, what makes you assume that he is going to enter his data into that system? He's not- I checked, he doesn't have an individual listing on the site and Michigan State isn't listed as one of the school partners.

Quote"I can't believe you are once again arguing with a hockey journalist"
Appeal to authority fallacy. Which is funny, coming from you, because I'm sure you'd be bitching and moaning about me doing the same thing if the shoe were on the other foot.

Appeal to authority fallacy? You are laughingly tossing out a phrase that doesn't apply.

Quote from: googled definition on the internet for youThe appeal to authority fallacy (also known as ad verecundiam) is a logical fallacy where a claim is accepted as true simply because it's supported by an authority figure, regardless of whether the authority is an expert on the specific topic or not. It's flawed because an authority's opinion, even if respected, doesn't necessarily make it correct.
Elaboration:
What it is:
The appeal to authority fallacy occurs when someone uses the authority of a person or institution to validate a claim, without providing any evidence or reasoning for the claim itself.
Why it's a fallacy:
While it's often logical to rely on expert opinions, blindly accepting an authority's word without examining the evidence or reasoning behind it is a fallacy.
Examples:
"Dr. Smith, a famous doctor, said this diet is healthy, so it must be true." (Even a doctor might not be an expert on nutrition)
"My favorite celebrity said this product works, so I'm going to buy it." (Celebrities are not necessarily experts in all areas)
Distinguishing legitimate appeals to authority:
A legitimate appeal to authority involves citing an expert who is qualified in the relevant field and their statement is directly related to the subject at hand.

Pretty sure my statements backing Adam's info hit the mark of the bolded portion.  Long-time well-respected hockey journalist who didn't comment here for clicks or hot-takes and has been a reliable straight shooter here for a very long time. He even said very specifically that he had talked with two agents in recent days- and says that when he speculates, he makes it clear he is speculating, and otherwise he is giving a hard fact.  There's no fallacy here.   This isn't Bobby Kennedy spewing nonesense about vaccines without data.  Adam directly relayed relevant personal interactions with those who would know best - player agents.

Quote"NIL seems to be increasing exponentially"

Quote from: bearloverNope. Not exponentially. And there's absolutely no evidence this is the case in hockey or other non-revenue sports.

Wrong again.  I read the actual opendorse report from last year. I took one of their data charts and added in the growth curve.  Technically quadratic is best ft, not exponential, but look at the impact from this year to next due to the expected house settlement. That curve is going to stay steep.  The chart is at the end of the post.


Anyone else up for joing the KKK 2.0?   (aka Keyboard Karen Killers)

Another possibility is Michigan donors cutting bigger NIL checks due to missing the tourney plus MSUs rise as a top program again. Apples to oranges but look at the money they cut for the freshman QB

The one thing that makes it all hard to project is supply of money

Contracts in sports go up as revenue goes up.

NIL is going up, but there is very little revenue projection for almost all the kids being paid

How long will deep pockets throw money away?

Sure its been going on for a long time in some hidden way, but it was not so many kids and it was not for so many teams.

Some teams have more donors so they will continue to throw money around. But the number of schools that have people who want to donate multi millions year after year is short.

In the past you could throw money at a kid and get him to your school until went pro, now you never know if throwing money at a kid means you get him for one year until the next school comes along

Lots of kids are making NIL with zero value to the people footing the bill.  Do we really think people are buying cars locally because of some NIL deal?

Any also some numbers are bogus.  Agent have a job to make money, best way to make money is to increase the payout. Over stating the market helps drive more market.

Quote from: abmarks

Quote from: BearLover"Adam said some B1G schools, not all schools"
If some B1G schools were paying 100K, that would be reflected in the data. It is mathematically impossible for the average to be as low as 3K if multiple players were making 100K.

You still fail the ol' logic test. .

• That dataset ends as of June 2024.
• Adam said that there were some guys getting offered 100k "currently".
  
• if there are "offers" "currently", that implies offers being made now.   It doesn't imply that those offers were being made prior to the 24-25 season. And again, that data cuts off in June of 24.

As I noted in my earlier post, they say

QuoteData is based on N.I.L. transactions disclosed through or processed by Opendorse between July 1, 2021, and June 30, 2024..less than a third of the money that student athletes are making is publicly known .

Let's use Adam's example about Howard getting his 50-100k "to return".   That would be money for 25-26, so that's not captured in that dataset.   And even if it was in the timeframe, what makes you assume that he is going to enter his data into that system? He's not- I checked, he doesn't have an individual listing on the site and Michigan State isn't listed as one of the school partners.

Quote"I can't believe you are once again arguing with a hockey journalist"
Appeal to authority fallacy. Which is funny, coming from you, because I'm sure you'd be bitching and moaning about me doing the same thing if the shoe were on the other foot.

Appeal to authority fallacy? You are laughingly tossing out a phrase that doesn't apply.

Quote from: googled definition on the internet for youThe appeal to authority fallacy (also known as ad verecundiam) is a logical fallacy where a claim is accepted as true simply because it's supported by an authority figure, regardless of whether the authority is an expert on the specific topic or not. It's flawed because an authority's opinion, even if respected, doesn't necessarily make it correct.
Elaboration:
What it is:
The appeal to authority fallacy occurs when someone uses the authority of a person or institution to validate a claim, without providing any evidence or reasoning for the claim itself.
Why it's a fallacy:
While it's often logical to rely on expert opinions, blindly accepting an authority's word without examining the evidence or reasoning behind it is a fallacy.
Examples:
"Dr. Smith, a famous doctor, said this diet is healthy, so it must be true." (Even a doctor might not be an expert on nutrition)
"My favorite celebrity said this product works, so I'm going to buy it." (Celebrities are not necessarily experts in all areas)
Distinguishing legitimate appeals to authority:
A legitimate appeal to authority involves citing an expert who is qualified in the relevant field and their statement is directly related to the subject at hand.

Pretty sure my statements backing Adam's info hit the mark of the bolded portion.  Long-time well-respected hockey journalist who didn't comment here for clicks or hot-takes and has been a reliable straight shooter here for a very long time. He even said very specifically that he had talked with two agents in recent days- and says that when he speculates, he makes it clear he is speculating, and otherwise he is giving a hard fact.  There's no fallacy here.   This isn't Bobby Kennedy spewing nonesense about vaccines without data.  Adam directly relayed relevant personal interactions with those who would know best - player agents.

Quote"NIL seems to be increasing exponentially"

Quote from: bearloverNope. Not exponentially. And there's absolutely no evidence this is the case in hockey or other non-revenue sports.

Wrong again.  I read the actual opendorse report from last year. I took one of their data charts and added in the growth curve.  Technically quadratic is best ft, not exponential, but look at the impact from this year to next due to the expected house settlement. That curve is going to stay steep.  The chart is at the end of the post.


Anyone else up for joing the KKK 2.0?   (aka Keyboard Karen Killers)

Are you intentionally obtuse, or just dishonest? You're quoting things from my post out of context and claiming I was responding to something different from what I was responding to. For example, you previously argued against the 3k average NIL amount by making the point that Adam was referring to big 10 schools, not all schools. I said that this number was intended to average the dataset, and that it would be mathematically impossible for there to be 100k contracts factored in if the top 50 averaged out to 3k.

You are now responding by saying that the 3k wouldn't capture these cases because these cases are more recent than the dataset. Yes, I know that, I acknowledged that several times. But that was clearly not what my statement was in response to.

The dataset is limited by various factors. It is still real, compiled data comprising 1/3 of NIL contracts as of one year ago, as compared to random rumors and speculations.

As to the appeal to authority fallacy, the fallacy is that you're accepting as true the opinion of someone who himself admits he's speculating. You are exercising no critical thinking of your own to evaluate this speculation.

And I'm not going to suffer through a stupid argument over the shape of a curve you just admitted isn't exponential right after I said it wasn't exponential.

Lastly, the term "keyboard Karen" has been in use for like five years now over social media. It wasn't edgy then and it definitely isn't now.

I personally think the most illustrative thing here is that you said few thought Roberson could make the Michigan roster. That shows to me that you haven't actually been following these things. You're just bullshitting, you don't follow college hockey, you just want to yell at me because you're obsessed for some reason.

BL,

Some one is being intentionally obtuse here, that's for sure. Belaboring minute details as a way to hammer home points, claiming "gotchas" that don't exist - these are the things that earn someone a reputation.

The only reason I chimed in was to correct the notion that NIL is playing little to no factor in college hockey. This is just factually untrue at this point.  If you want to then twist the definition of "factor" to say - "well, yeah, ok, they are getting it, but it's a small amount and blah blah" ... then sure.  To me, that's moving the goalposts - and really, I don't care to debate semantics in 47 posts.

So anyway - I said what I said - and if you want to now argue the significance, go for it.

The point was to say that Robertson has his reasons. I can't get into every little detail, and I don't know him well enough to know his personal situation. Again, you can nitpick and belabor until the cows come home, but the over-arching point was to defend what happened -- defend both Cornell and Robertson, really -- and to counteract these breathless "sky is falling posts."  Not so much to debate you - which is a waste of time - but for the sake of others.

On the Western Michigan point -- I don't have a ton of issue with Barstool, but it's not like they're around college hockey much. They're liable to buy a line of PR fairly easily. They also may not care about the particulars, or that things may be changing by the minute. Again you nitpick me saying "giving" ... I fully realize that technically WMU is not allowed to give it - there's no need to hammer that.  However, it's naive to think that the schools don't arrange it via known benefactors, even if informally. So in essence, it's no difference. When a kid picks up the phone from a coach, and is told that "we'll have this much NIL for you" - those donors are not on the call. That gets figured out later. It's a promise.  And there have been college football lawsuits for promises made that weren't delivered.  Not in hockey yet.

Another point is that NIL will soon not even be the point. Michigan, for example, will have $20.5 million of revenue sharing to give out. Obviously, probably less than $1 million will go to hockey - maybe $500,000 tops? Who knows. Point being that Robertson could have -- speculation -- been offered a significant chunk of THAT. NOT the NIL.  Who knows.  Both are now in play.

Oh. as for the "authority" part ... Look, I've been on this message board for 20+ years and schmoozed with others on here in different forums for at least a decade before that. I'm uncomfortable making any statements about myself like that. Pretty sure Trotsky dissed me in 1996 for something like that - not my first rodeo :). You can probably count on one hand the times I've used that card here. It's only in the face of blow-hardy, know-it-all opinions (that are false) that I feel the need to say something. Again, take it FWIW.

"BearLover out" really had a nice ring to it. Alas.

Quote from: BearLoverAre you intentionally obtuse, or just dishonest? You're quoting things from my post out of context and claiming I was responding to something different from what I was responding to. For example, you previously argued against the 3k average NIL amount by making the point that Adam was referring to big 10 schools, not all schools. I said that this number was intended to average the dataset, and that it would be mathematically impossible for there to be 100k contracts factored in if the top 50 averaged out to 3k.

You are now responding by saying that the 3k wouldn't capture these cases because these cases are more recent than the dataset. Yes, I know that, I acknowledged that several times. But that was clearly not what my statement was in response to.

The dataset is limited by various factors. It is still real, compiled data comprising 1/3 of NIL contracts as of one year ago, as compared to random rumors and speculations.

As to the appeal to authority fallacy, the fallacy is that you're accepting as true the opinion of someone who himself admits he's speculating. You are exercising no critical thinking of your own to evaluate this speculation.

And I'm not going to suffer through a stupid argument over the shape of a curve you just admitted isn't exponential right after I said it wasn't exponential.

Lastly, the term "keyboard Karen" has been in use for like five years now over social media. It wasn't edgy then and it definitely isn't now.

I personally think the most illustrative thing here is that you said few thought Roberson could make the Michigan roster. That shows to me that you haven't actually been following these things. You're just bullshitting, you don't follow college hockey, you just want to yell at me because you're obsessed for some reason.

.


Adam only said he was speculating about Robertson getting money.  He was definitive about Howard and when he said he'd talked with agents and others at the frozen four.  You don't read carefully.

I didn't take you out of context either.  You are trying to split apart two issues that have to be put together to evaluate the CURRENT state of play. Your argument about 100k payouts not making any sense because the data said 3k is entirely specious- because Adam's report of 100k payouts was not about historical practice. FFS he said "-- currently". Noone here asked him, nor did he say or imply that this was the case in the past.  And it stands to reason that it's happening now, not then, because of the House settlement. THere is so much actuon going on at the moment all over college athletics because that settlement getting finalized is already baked into decisions programs and players are making.   THre was even news this week that the judge overseeing that settlement had proposed some change and the lawyers all pushed back saying we're too close to the finish line to do it because the schools and programs are already building rosters and budgeting etc as if House had already happened.


has said that there were 100k payouts happening while the data was gathered.   You were the one implying that the math contravened Adam's statement, when in fact it didn't.  Remember, he said "currently" as I've now told you three times.

My problem with you is that you are arguing so often in recent months, this issue included, bray about needing some reputable published source being needed to prove that the garage you are reading is in fact wrong.  It's just stupid. With this, you keep defending the shit data - that probably is not at all relevant to what is going on today, nt to mention irrelevant to what Adam said, as there is zero overlap.   Your like Trump in 2016 screaming "but the emails" all the time...except the garbage you're spewing is "but the irrelevant shitty data!"

p.s.  I did say few here would have placed Robertson on a Michigan Roster.  So far you are the only person having chimed in on that subject, and because you think it was clear he could have played there, that makes my argument wrong?    One data point? Maybe you are the only one with that opinion...who knows?  You want to rip me if a slew of people all chime in that they definitely knew he was michigan material prior to this, go ahead.  But as the only voice at the moment, that's just a whiny punk crying out.    Are you a gen Z?

Quote from: abmarks

Quote from: BearLoverAre you intentionally obtuse, or just dishonest? You're quoting things from my post out of context and claiming I was responding to something different from what I was responding to. For example, you previously argued against the 3k average NIL amount by making the point that Adam was referring to big 10 schools, not all schools. I said that this number was intended to average the dataset, and that it would be mathematically impossible for there to be 100k contracts factored in if the top 50 averaged out to 3k.

You are now responding by saying that the 3k wouldn't capture these cases because these cases are more recent than the dataset. Yes, I know that, I acknowledged that several times. But that was clearly not what my statement was in response to.

The dataset is limited by various factors. It is still real, compiled data comprising 1/3 of NIL contracts as of one year ago, as compared to random rumors and speculations.

As to the appeal to authority fallacy, the fallacy is that you're accepting as true the opinion of someone who himself admits he's speculating. You are exercising no critical thinking of your own to evaluate this speculation.

And I'm not going to suffer through a stupid argument over the shape of a curve you just admitted isn't exponential right after I said it wasn't exponential.

Lastly, the term "keyboard Karen" has been in use for like five years now over social media. It wasn't edgy then and it definitely isn't now.

I personally think the most illustrative thing here is that you said few thought Roberson could make the Michigan roster. That shows to me that you haven't actually been following these things. You're just bullshitting, you don't follow college hockey, you just want to yell at me because you're obsessed for some reason.

.


Adam only said he was speculating about Robertson getting money.  He was definitive about Howard and when he said he'd talked with agents and others at the frozen four.  You don't read carefully.

I didn't take you out of context either.  You are trying to split apart two issues that have to be put together to evaluate the CURRENT state of play. Your argument about 100k payouts not making any sense because the data said 3k is entirely specious- because Adam's report of 100k payouts was not about historical practice. FFS he said "-- currently". Noone here asked him, nor did he say or imply that this was the case in the past.  And it stands to reason that it's happening now, not then, because of the House settlement. THere is so much actuon going on at the moment all over college athletics because that settlement getting finalized is already baked into decisions programs and players are making.   THre was even news this week that the judge overseeing that settlement had proposed some change and the lawyers all pushed back saying we're too close to the finish line to do it because the schools and programs are already building rosters and budgeting etc as if House had already happened.


has said that there were 100k payouts happening while the data was gathered.   You were the one implying that the math contravened Adam's statement, when in fact it didn't.  Remember, he said "currently" as I've now told you three times.

My problem with you is that you are arguing so often in recent months, this issue included, bray about needing some reputable published source being needed to prove that the garage you are reading is in fact wrong.  It's just stupid. With this, you keep defending the shit data - that probably is not at all relevant to what is going on today, nt to mention irrelevant to what Adam said, as there is zero overlap.   Your like Trump in 2016 screaming "but the emails" all the time...except the garbage you're spewing is "but the irrelevant shitty data!"

p.s.  I did say few here would have placed Robertson on a Michigan Roster.  So far you are the only person having chimed in on that subject, and because you think it was clear he could have played there, that makes my argument wrong?    One data point? Maybe you are the only one with that opinion...who knows?  You want to rip me if a slew of people all chime in that they definitely knew he was michigan material prior to this, go ahead.  But as the only voice at the moment, that's just a whiny punk crying out.    Are you a gen Z?

I stopped reading this post after the first couple sentences but where was Adam definitive about Howard getting 50-100K? Scroll back up, Adam said he was "probably" getting 50-100K. The agents thing was separate lol, strange to say this and then write "you don't read carefully"...?

Quote from: adamwBL,

Some one is being intentionally obtuse here, that's for sure. Belaboring minute details as a way to hammer home points, claiming "gotchas" that don't exist - these are the things that earn someone a reputation.

The only reason I chimed in was to correct the notion that NIL is playing little to no factor in college hockey. This is just factually untrue at this point.  If you want to then twist the definition of "factor" to say - "well, yeah, ok, they are getting it, but it's a small amount and blah blah" ... then sure.  To me, that's moving the goalposts - and really, I don't care to debate semantics in 47 posts.

So anyway - I said what I said - and if you want to now argue the significance, go for it.

The point was to say that Robertson has his reasons. I can't get into every little detail, and I don't know him well enough to know his personal situation. Again, you can nitpick and belabor until the cows come home, but the over-arching point was to defend what happened -- defend both Cornell and Robertson, really -- and to counteract these breathless "sky is falling posts."  Not so much to debate you - which is a waste of time - but for the sake of others.

On the Western Michigan point -- I don't have a ton of issue with Barstool, but it's not like they're around college hockey much. They're liable to buy a line of PR fairly easily. They also may not care about the particulars, or that things may be changing by the minute. Again you nitpick me saying "giving" ... I fully realize that technically WMU is not allowed to give it - there's no need to hammer that.  However, it's naive to think that the schools don't arrange it via known benefactors, even if informally. So in essence, it's no difference. When a kid picks up the phone from a coach, and is told that "we'll have this much NIL for you" - those donors are not on the call. That gets figured out later. It's a promise.  And there have been college football lawsuits for promises made that weren't delivered.  Not in hockey yet.

Another point is that NIL will soon not even be the point. Michigan, for example, will have $20.5 million of revenue sharing to give out. Obviously, probably less than $1 million will go to hockey - maybe $500,000 tops? Who knows. Point being that Robertson could have -- speculation -- been offered a significant chunk of THAT. NOT the NIL.  Who knows.  Both are now in play.

Oh. as for the "authority" part ... Look, I've been on this message board for 20+ years and schmoozed with others on here in different forums for at least a decade before that. I'm uncomfortable making any statements about myself like that. Pretty sure Trotsky dissed me in 1996 for something like that - not my first rodeo :). You can probably count on one hand the times I've used that card here. It's only in the face of blow-hardy, know-it-all opinions (that are false) that I feel the need to say something. Again, take it FWIW.

"BearLover out" really had a nice ring to it. Alas.

When I put quotes around "giving" I was not intending to nitpick who the NIL was coming from. I agree it's irrelevant where it's technically coming from. The point was that the amounts are very small. If a player is getting under 1K NIL, I think it probably rounds to zero as far as it being a factor in their decision of where to play.

Anyway, the "sky is falling" people in this case are the ones claiming we're losing players to NIL, no?

Here's some interesting food for thought: traditional powers like Denver, BU, NoDak, Quinnipiac, Duluth have no athletics profits to speak of. They also have fewer grads and certainly fewer rich grads than Cornell. We may be unable to offer players money like the big 10 (allegedly) can, but there's no reason we have to be behind these other schools.

Quote from: abmarksAre you a gen Z?

As a gen Zer, I take offense to this! ;)

Quote from: BearLoverI stopped reading this post after the first couple sentences but where was Adam definitive about Howard getting 50-100K? Scroll back up, Adam said he was "probably" getting 50-100K. The agents thing was separate lol, strange to say this and then write "you don't read carefully"...?

You should be a corporate spokesman; you've got a remarkable ability to twist the most likely meaning of someone's statement to something else. And your rhetorical flair with the repeated "stopped reading" and the like is just plain intellectually dishonest.

When Adam said he's probably getting 50.to 100, I took that as a certainty he was getting money, but an educated guess on the exact numbers.  Regardless of the proper interpretation of his phrasing, I literally just paid $2 for a subscription to the Grand Forks Herald just to read this paywalled article and deliver the goods you so desire: a published, reputable source that generally corroborates Adam's info about big money NIL in hockey.


Here are selected quotes from the article out of respect to their paywall.  None of this out of context - the parts I left out from the article were not NIL related and/or weren't needed to support the NIL reporting.

Quotehttps://www.grandforksherald.com/sports/und-hockey/schlossman-the-big-ten-is-spending-but-the-nchc-keeps-winning-national-titles


Grand Forks Herald
Schlossman: The Big Ten is spending, but the NCHC keeps winning national titles

By Brad Elliott Schlossman
April 17, 2025 at 11:57 AM
 

• There have been concerns across college hockey that the Big Ten is on the verge of taking over with all the football money that has trickled over to hockey.



• There are underlying reasons why other schools are wary of the Big Ten and its money...The Big Ten has won a lot of recruiting battles for top prospects recently.


• Since 2019, the Big Ten has had 24 NHL first-round picks. Hockey East has had 16. The NCHC has had five — and two transferred out after a year to the Big Ten and Hockey East.


• Some Big Ten teams spent the second half of this season trying to shake down the NCHC for its best players....A few key players will head to the Big Ten. St. Cloud State second-round draft pick Colin Ralph is transferring to Michigan State. UND third-rounder Jayden Perron is going to Michigan. Omaha third-rounder Tanner Ludtke is off to Minnesota.
   
  
• Some Big Ten schools are throwing major money at top Canadian Hockey League players, who will be eligible for college hockey beginning this fall...Superstar Gavin McKenna, the projected No. 1 overall pick in 2026, is fielding massive Name, Image and Likeness offers. If he goes to college, he will likely enter next season as the Hobey Baker Award frontrunner — which is saying something considering 2025 winner Isaac Howard of Michigan State is planning to return to school.
   
  
• It's important to note the Big Ten has made big jumps in regular-season play recently with its top prospects...The NCHC had college hockey's best nonconference record five times in six years from 2014-15 through 2019-20. But the Big Ten has held the best nonconference record all four years since the pandemic.

Author's Bio:
Schlossman has covered college hockey for the Grand Forks Herald since 2005. He has been recognized by the Associated Press Sports Editors as the top beat writer for the Herald's circulation division four times and the North Dakota sportswriter of the year twice. He resides in Grand Forks. Reach him at bschlossman@gfherald.com.

While the article doesn't list numbers, it's in principle saying the exact same thing Adam was.

Convinced yet?

Quote from: abmarks

Quote from: BearLoverI stopped reading this post after the first couple sentences but where was Adam definitive about Howard getting 50-100K? Scroll back up, Adam said he was "probably" getting 50-100K. The agents thing was separate lol, strange to say this and then write "you don't read carefully"...?

You should be a corporate spokesman; you've got a remarkable ability to twist the most likely meaning of someone's statement to something else. And your rhetorical flair with the repeated "stopped reading" and the like is just plain intellectually dishonest.

When Adam said he's probably getting 50.to 100, I took that as a certainty he was getting money, but an educated guess on the exact numbers.  Regardless of the proper interpretation of his phrasing, I literally just paid $2 for a subscription to the Grand Forks Herald just to read this paywalled article and deliver the goods you so desire: a published, reputable source that generally corroborates Adam's info about big money NIL in hockey.


Here are selected quotes from the article out of respect to their paywall.  None of this out of context - the parts I left out from the article were not NIL related and/or weren't needed to support the NIL reporting.

Quotehttps://www.grandforksherald.com/sports/und-hockey/schlossman-the-big-ten-is-spending-but-the-nchc-keeps-winning-national-titles


Grand Forks Herald
Schlossman: The Big Ten is spending, but the NCHC keeps winning national titles

By Brad Elliott Schlossman
April 17, 2025 at 11:57 AM
 

• There have been concerns across college hockey that the Big Ten is on the verge of taking over with all the football money that has trickled over to hockey.



• There are underlying reasons why other schools are wary of the Big Ten and its money...The Big Ten has won a lot of recruiting battles for top prospects recently.


• Since 2019, the Big Ten has had 24 NHL first-round picks. Hockey East has had 16. The NCHC has had five — and two transferred out after a year to the Big Ten and Hockey East.


• Some Big Ten teams spent the second half of this season trying to shake down the NCHC for its best players....A few key players will head to the Big Ten. St. Cloud State second-round draft pick Colin Ralph is transferring to Michigan State. UND third-rounder Jayden Perron is going to Michigan. Omaha third-rounder Tanner Ludtke is off to Minnesota.
   
  
• Some Big Ten schools are throwing major money at top Canadian Hockey League players, who will be eligible for college hockey beginning this fall...Superstar Gavin McKenna, the projected No. 1 overall pick in 2026, is fielding massive Name, Image and Likeness offers. If he goes to college, he will likely enter next season as the Hobey Baker Award frontrunner — which is saying something considering 2025 winner Isaac Howard of Michigan State is planning to return to school.
   
  
• It's important to note the Big Ten has made big jumps in regular-season play recently with its top prospects...The NCHC had college hockey's best nonconference record five times in six years from 2014-15 through 2019-20. But the Big Ten has held the best nonconference record all four years since the pandemic.

Author's Bio:
Schlossman has covered college hockey for the Grand Forks Herald since 2005. He has been recognized by the Associated Press Sports Editors as the top beat writer for the Herald's circulation division four times and the North Dakota sportswriter of the year twice. He resides in Grand Forks. Reach him at bschlossman@gfherald.com.

While the article doesn't list numbers, it's in principle saying the exact same thing Adam was.

Convinced yet?

Convinced of what, lol? What exactly is the claim?

Also, how are they throwing tons of NIL money at Gavin Mckenna when Canadian players aren't even eligible for NIL from US sources?

There is currently zero NIL at Denver, the most successful college hockey program: https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/6275152/2025/04/18/denver-hockey-ncaa-david-carle/
Source: the coach of Denver

PS: I read everybody's posts in totality except for yours. Yours happen to be exceptionally combative and insult-ridden and it's not worth it for me to read them since they're always more about attacking me than making any compelling point.

Only one emoji. You're letting the home side down.

I wish Ben the best of luck!
I'm very sad to see his departure but these things happen and they usually have a way of working out.
Whatever his reasons, I can't begrudge him for following his heart and doing what is best for BEN!

Quote from: fastforwardI wish Ben the best of luck!
I'm very sad to see his departure but these things happen and they usually have a way of working out.
Whatever his reasons, I can't begrudge him for following his heart and doing what is best for BEN!

Vomiting into a trash can

Quote from: BearLover

Quote from: fastforwardI wish Ben the best of luck!
I'm very sad to see his departure but these things happen and they usually have a way of working out.
Whatever his reasons, I can't begrudge him for following his heart and doing what is best for BEN!

Vomiting into a trash can

Put a wick in it and bring it to market.

(https://gnargrunge.com/cdn/shop/products/IMG_5622.jpg)

Quote from: marty

Quote from: BearLover

Quote from: fastforwardI wish Ben the best of luck!
I'm very sad to see his departure but these things happen and they usually have a way of working out.
Whatever his reasons, I can't begrudge him for following his heart and doing what is best for BEN!

Vomiting into a trash can

Put a wick in it and bring it to market.

(https://gnargrunge.com/cdn/shop/products/IMG_5622.jpg)

I bet it smells better than the stench of ditching your team!

He doesn't need my help (Adam doesn't) but ... [list=2]

• Actually, BU has more undergraduates than Cornell, ditto NCAA titles and Hobeys. BU is not a safety school, certainly not in this century.
• Did you argue with your professors a lot about, say, the Oxford Comma? Did girls pick you up after that?
• Adam kinda knows what he's talking about and at some point one should feel queasy in the stomach getting topped, repeatedly, by an IC grad. (Aside: One of my classmates transferred to Ithaca and turned it into a pretty good career in TV broadcasting. IC is the right place for a lot of things.)
• It is never a bad idea to let the other guy have the last word at least, say, half the time.

Quote from: BearLover

Quote from: fastforwardI wish Ben the best of luck!
I'm very sad to see his departure but these things happen and they usually have a way of working out.
Whatever his reasons, I can't begrudge him for following his heart and doing what is best for BEN!

Vomiting into a trash can

What, are you 12 or what
Grow up
We have to listen to your drivel but can't voice our opinion?

BL will never admit he's wrong - so again, just for everyone else ...

Mankato Assistant Coach reveals their two top recruits were paid $80-90k by a B1G school to decommit from MNSU

https://www.reddit.com/r/collegehockey/comments/1k1u3ea/mankato_assistant_coach_reveals_their_two_top/

Happening all over. Also, Denver coach (who I know well) is definitely fudging a bit. The school opted in for a reason, and whether this is NIL or Revenue Share money, is going to be irrelevant soon.

Also, ignoring Bill's IC jab :) (I did laugh)

(https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRNOXQ9HH9LQ1ZfKYZ7vO0LRESuSOrcMDGZlQ&s)

Quote from: billhowardAdam kinda knows what he's talking about and at some point one should feel queasy in the stomach getting topped, repeatedly, by an IC grad. (Aside: One of my classmates transferred to Ithaca and turned it into a pretty good career in TV broadcasting. IC is the right place for a lot of things.)

Add, ABC News anchor Bill Muir who earns $8 million plus.  Not bad for a grad of that other school in Ithaca.

Quote from: adamwBL will never admit he's wrong - so again, just for everyone else ...

Mankato Assistant Coach reveals their two top recruits were paid $80-90k by a B1G school to decommit from MNSU

https://www.reddit.com/r/collegehockey/comments/1k1u3ea/mankato_assistant_coach_reveals_their_two_top/

Happening all over. Also, Denver coach (who I know well) is definitely fudging a bit. The school opted in for a reason, and whether this is NIL or Revenue Share money, is going to be irrelevant soon.

Also, ignoring Bill's IC jab :) (I did laugh)

I'm very willing to be wrong, but I'm not going to believe it based on random speculation.

I previously saw this Reddit post and almost posted it, but then I looked more into it and if you listen to the podcast, it's clear he's referring to only one of the recruits getting money from a big 10 school (the other went to NoDak, not big 10), and it's totally unclear what the 80-90k even means and if that includes scholarship. It sounded like sour grapes from this coach + embellishing details. In any event, the title of this Reddit post is totally wrong.

I will say: if this guy, who is a good recruit but is a 20-y/o in the USHL with less upside than most other Minn players (most of whom are putting up those numbers at age 18), is actually getting $90k in NIL, then college hockey is over. That means actual top recruits are getting much more than $90k and schools like Denver/Cornell will never come close to competing with them for recruits.

On Denver, they did opt in, but their athletic department (like the athletic departments for all other non-power 4 schools) does not turn a profit. So what does that mean for revenue sharing? Will the "revenue" being shared be less than 10K? Nodak (and I assume Q, BU, etc) did not opt in, and that is very telling. There's no revenue to be shared...

We'll see what happens. But interestingly, this recruit, who supposedly got "80-90k" is a worse recruit on paper than several of ours (Veilleux, DiGiulian, ...) and also as good as the other recruit mentioned, who went to NoDak and is probably getting almost no money there...

It doesn't add up. But this came directly from a coach's mouth so it's a very relevant piece of evidence. Hopefully there's more of that to come so we can discern to what extent NIL actually matters in college hockey.

Quote from: BearLoverOn Denver, they did opt in, but their athletic department (like the athletic departments for all other non-power 4 schools) does not turn a profit.

this is not typical of your skepticism. ask art buchwald* about how institutional accounting works when they have goals beyond keeping track of where the money is.

*google it. prince akeem would want you to.

Quote from: BearLoverOn Denver, they did opt in, but their athletic department (like the athletic departments for all other non-power 4 schools) does not turn a profit. So what does that mean for revenue sharing? Will the "revenue" being shared be less than 10K? Nodak (and I assume Q, BU, etc) did not opt in, and that is very telling. There's no revenue to be shared...

Like I said - you'll never admit you're wrong. Ever. You've repeated this a zillion effing times - and I've told you over and over that "not opting in" -- YET (important) -- has ZERO to do with how much revenue there is to be shared. ZERO. Not only is it obvious, because there are other reasons to not opt in yet, but I've been told this straight from the horse's mouths (the ADs of those schools).  But you keep coming here and friggin repeating it.  So, that's why everyone thinks of you what they think of you.

The big schools are throwing around money - and that includes North Dakota and BU, and all the Big Ten, and will include Denver too. I don't know what else to tell you at this point.

Quote from: George64

Quote from: billhowardAdam kinda knows what he's talking about and at some point one should feel queasy in the stomach getting topped, repeatedly, by an IC grad. (Aside: One of my classmates transferred to Ithaca and turned it into a pretty good career in TV broadcasting. IC is the right place for a lot of things.)

Add, ABC News anchor Bill Muir who earns $8 million plus.  Not bad for a grad of that other school in Ithaca.

Bob Iger also a grad - Muir's employer - I could go on. Alas, not I.

It's David Muir by the way - he was a twerpy freshman when I was a senior. He looked up to me then. I taught him everything he knows.

Quote from: adamw

Quote from: BearLoverOn Denver, they did opt in, but their athletic department (like the athletic departments for all other non-power 4 schools) does not turn a profit. So what does that mean for revenue sharing? Will the "revenue" being shared be less than 10K? Nodak (and I assume Q, BU, etc) did not opt in, and that is very telling. There's no revenue to be shared...

Like I said - you'll never admit you're wrong. Ever. You've repeated this a zillion effing times - and I've told you over and over that "not opting in" -- YET (important) -- has ZERO to do with how much revenue there is to be shared. ZERO. Not only is it obvious, because there are other reasons to not opt in yet, but I've been told this straight from the horse's mouths (the ADs of those schools).  But you keep coming here and friggin repeating it.  So, that's why everyone thinks of you what they think of you.

The big schools are throwing around money - and that includes North Dakota and BU, and all the Big Ten, and will include Denver too. I don't know what else to tell you at this point.

I'm wrong all the time and I will happily admit it. For example, a couple weeks ago I made the point that Cornell may even benefit from the current NCAA environment because their players never transfer out and rarely sign pro deals early. Well, turns out my premises were flawed, so my post was stupid.

On the other hand, that reason I won't "admit that I'm wrong" on teams opting into the House settlement is because your argument makes no sense! That's just my opinion, obviously, but I won't admit I'm wrong because I don't think I'm wrong! Let me spell this out again:

A team, let's say North Dakota (ND), is faced with the decision whether to opt into the House settlement. Opting in entails certain benefits: (1) the ability to share revenues with players and (2) the ability to award scholarships above the existing 18-scholly limit.

Opting in also has a cost: roster sizes cannot go above 26.

Let's denote the benefits as B and the costs as C.

ND will opt into the settlement if B>C.

ND did not opt into the settlement because B
If revenue sharing were a large enough benefit, B>C and then they would opt in. But they didn't opt in, because revenue sharing is not a substantial enough benefit to counteract the cost.

It's interesting Denver did opt in, despite what sounded like serious hesitation on the part of their AD on your podcast (which I did listen to).

Let's see what other schools do in the future. My point on this issue remains the same: outside of the power 4 schools, these athletic depts break even at best, and there seems to be little if any revenue to be shared. I think the fact ND didn't opt in is very revealing, given they run probably the biggest revenue generating hockey program in the NCAA.

We'll see how things change in the future. LGR

Quote from: The Athletic"Carle says they don't pay players. He can see the value in NIL — if done right — so they're considering it for the future."

CJ Kirst probably makes a lot of money from NIL (or he could if he wanted). That doesn't mean Cornell is paying it or facilitates it. Probably the same for Buium and other stars at Denver.

I feel like we're a year or two away from having the CHN joke article "what if college hockey had a trade deadline?" become reality. Eventually a new structure will form but this is an absolute mess.

Quote from: adamwBL will never admit he's wrong - so again, just for everyone else ...

Mankato Assistant Coach reveals their two top recruits were paid $80-90k by a B1G school to decommit from MNSU

https://www.reddit.com/r/collegehockey/comments/1k1u3ea/mankato_assistant_coach_reveals_their_two_top/

Happening all over. Also, Denver coach (who I know well) is definitely fudging a bit. The school opted in for a reason, and whether this is NIL or Revenue Share money, is going to be irrelevant soon.

Also, ignoring Bill's IC jab :) (I did laugh)

For some perspective, that's more than the annual salary of a lot of Americans. Yikes

Quote from: Iceberg

Quote from: adamwBL will never admit he's wrong - so again, just for everyone else ...

Mankato Assistant Coach reveals their two top recruits were paid $80-90k by a B1G school to decommit from MNSU

https://www.reddit.com/r/collegehockey/comments/1k1u3ea/mankato_assistant_coach_reveals_their_two_top/

Happening all over. Also, Denver coach (who I know well) is definitely fudging a bit. The school opted in for a reason, and whether this is NIL or Revenue Share money, is going to be irrelevant soon.

Also, ignoring Bill's IC jab :) (I did laugh)

For some perspective, that's more than the annual salary of a lot of Americans. Yikes

He is also more "skilled" than most Americans.

Can't Cornell get Larry Tannenbaum to fund a men's hockey collective and just try to buy a championship?

Quote from: BearLoverOn the other hand, that reason I won't "admit that I'm wrong" on teams opting into the House settlement is because your argument makes no sense! That's just my opinion, obviously, but I won't admit I'm wrong because I don't think I'm wrong! Let me spell this out again:

A team, let's say North Dakota (ND), is faced with the decision whether to opt into the House settlement. Opting in entails certain benefits: (1) the ability to share revenues with players and (2) the ability to award scholarships above the existing 18-scholly limit.

Opting in also has a cost: roster sizes cannot go above 26.

Let's denote the benefits as B and the costs as C.

ND will opt into the settlement if B>C.

ND did not opt into the settlement because B
If revenue sharing were a large enough benefit, B>C and then they would opt in. But they didn't opt in, because revenue sharing is not a substantial enough benefit to counteract the cost.

It's interesting Denver did opt in, despite what sounded like serious hesitation on the part of their AD on your podcast (which I did listen to).

Let's see what other schools do in the future. My point on this issue remains the same: outside of the power 4 schools, these athletic depts break even at best, and there seems to be little if any revenue to be shared. I think the fact ND didn't opt in is very revealing, given they run probably the biggest revenue generating hockey program in the NCAA.

We'll see how things change in the future. LGR

Your logic is not only flawed - but my information comes straight from the horse's mouth of multiple ADs. So again - whatever.

North Dakota will literally opt in next year, when the dust settles. So there alone throws everything out the window. When I told their AD there are some people who believe it meant they didn't have enough revenue, he literally laughed out loud.  So you can dream whatever you want into North Dakota's decision and conclude in fantasy land that it's "very revealing" - but it's literally not at all revealing. shrug.

I'm not sure where you heard hesitation from the Denver AD in regards to the amount of revenue. You're inventing that. His only hesitation was over the roster limits, and not wanting to jump the gun until they had a chance to discuss as a university. They have no concern over revenue. I chat with him every time I see him at Denver home games - and just saw him in St. Louis.

You keep repeating the remarks about how most schools lose money on athletics, and generally, this is true over the years. It's also irrelevant to this topic. It has no bearing.  The entire economic structure is changing.  And operating at a loss has not stopped schools from using charters, adding scholarships, adding full cost of attendance (Alston money), coordinating NIL deals, etc...  Do you think St. John's athletic department operates at a loss?  Yet Rick Pitino had $4 million of NIL available to him last year - thanks to one rich dude.  The whole point is moot.  How programs are funded -- it's all changing.

Quote from: underskillCan't Cornell get Larry Tannenbaum to fund a men's hockey collective and just try to buy a championship?

If the funding model is moving in the same direction as everything else in this benighted timeline, this may not be far from truth.

In a world where title hopes are the probability of having hatched a billionaire asshat overcompensating for his (it's always his) deficiencies IRL, we are in a strong position.  Trust the Process!

Quote from: underskillCan't Cornell get Larry Tannenbaum to fund a men's hockey collective and just try to buy a championship?

This but unironically

they would have to remove all the Canadian kids wouldnt they to pay NIL like that?

Quote from: upprdeckthey would have to remove all the Canadian kids wouldnt they to pay NIL like that?

Not necessarily.  Was reading an article that talked about workarounds.  If the Canadian kids get a different visa than the standard student visa was one way.   Another was getting the nil for services rendered in Canada.  And the third was an example where you sold your nil rights to a company-and since that company controlled how your value was exploited, and you no longer did, you were safe that way too.

Quote from: abmarks

Quote from: upprdeckthey would have to remove all the Canadian kids wouldnt they to pay NIL like that?

Not necessarily.  Was reading an article that talked about workarounds.  If the Canadian kids get a different visa than the standard student visa was one way.   Another was getting the nil for services rendered in Canada.  And the third was an example where you sold your nil rights to a company-and since that company controlled how your value was exploited, and you no longer did, you were safe that way too.

Yeah couldn't a student visa just be a work visa?  What happens with grad students who get stipends to teach?

Quote from: Trotsky

Quote from: abmarks

Quote from: upprdeckthey would have to remove all the Canadian kids wouldnt they to pay NIL like that?

Not necessarily.  Was reading an article that talked about workarounds.  If the Canadian kids get a different visa than the standard student visa was one way.   Another was getting the nil for services rendered in Canada.  And the third was an example where you sold your nil rights to a company-and since that company controlled how your value was exploited, and you no longer did, you were safe that way too.

Yeah couldn't a student visa just be a work visa?  What happens with grad students who get stipends to teach?

I'll have to look for the article I read and see if I can find a link.

Another avenue was the visa type that Melania got.  The exceptional talent visa or whatever it's called. I'd assume that's the one that NBA, NHL, MLB, NFL etc would get if they aren't US citizens.

The basic student visa doesn't allow you to earn income. At least what I used under NAFTA.

Not the article I was looking for, but if you really want to understand the issues, this was posted by the University of Oregon general counsel and is a legal analysis of the issues and slim options.

https://generalcounsel.uoregon.edu/name-image-and-likeness-international-student-athletes#:~:text=International%20students'%20visas%20limit%20them,and%20NCAA%20Interim%20NIL%20Policy).

You are limited in what you can work with using the student visa stuff.. Some of it you can work within your field.

Here's another twist on the CHL recruitment saga.

https://www.grandforksherald.com/sports/und-hockey/schlossman-ncaa-teams-are-running-into-roadblocks-with-some-chl-players

Re: CHL players moving to the NCAA,

Quotecoaches are finding out that a lot of them will not be academically eligible to play college hockey.

It's not that the CHL players are bad students.

The primary issue is that many have not taken the required 16 NCAA-approved core classes, including 10 in the first seven semesters of high school.

When these players signed in the CHL, they thought they were giving up their college eligibility and didn't bother working toward NCAA academic requirements anymore.

Quote from: abmarksHere's another twist on the CHL recruitment saga.

https://www.grandforksherald.com/sports/und-hockey/schlossman-ncaa-teams-are-running-into-roadblocks-with-some-chl-players

Re: CHL players moving to the NCAA,

Quotecoaches are finding out that a lot of them will not be academically eligible to play college hockey.

It's not that the CHL players are bad students.

The primary issue is that many have not taken the required 16 NCAA-approved core classes, including 10 in the first seven semesters of high school.

When these players signed in the CHL, they thought they were giving up their college eligibility and didn't bother working toward NCAA academic requirements anymore.

Exactly why much of the Major Junior brouhaha isn't going to matter (as much as some think)- many hockey players aren't interested in academics at all, even in a performative sense. At least for a few years. If the NCAA becomes the #1 league for NHL development, maybe that changes.

Quote from: The Rancor

Quote from: abmarksHere's another twist on the CHL recruitment saga.

https://www.grandforksherald.com/sports/und-hockey/schlossman-ncaa-teams-are-running-into-roadblocks-with-some-chl-players

Re: CHL players moving to the NCAA,

Quotecoaches are finding out that a lot of them will not be academically eligible to play college hockey.

It's not that the CHL players are bad students.

The primary issue is that many have not taken the required 16 NCAA-approved core classes, including 10 in the first seven semesters of high school.

When these players signed in the CHL, they thought they were giving up their college eligibility and didn't bother working toward NCAA academic requirements anymore.

Exactly why much of the Major Junior brouhaha isn't going to matter (as much as some think)- many hockey players aren't interested in academics at all, even in a performative sense. At least for a few years. If the NCAA becomes the #1 league for NHL development, maybe that changes.

I think there's a bit of an understanding that the NCAA is a better league than the CHL, due to the age of competition and such, but yeah, if this is the case, you'll likely see the true influx start in 26, 27.

Though I know a decent amount of CHLers finish their high school early, often at like, 15, 16 and start taking classes with local Canadian universities while in the CHL. (Parekh is the poster child; I know the Mercers did this too, but not as advanced.) That being said, enough of them barely get through high school that you have some teams brag about how most of their kids do.

But additionally, if you have to take specific classes, things can get dicey. We'll see.

Denver's NIL collective goes towards three sports: basketball, gymnastics, and lacrosse. No hockey.

https://www.denvernil.com/

Quote from: BearLoverDenver's NIL collective goes towards three sports: basketball, gymnastics, and lacrosse. No hockey.

https://www.denvernil.com/

there is no way you actually believe that denver's gymnasts actually get more money than zeev buium. whether the collective is the method or not, that isn't happening.

Quote from: ugarte

Quote from: BearLoverDenver's NIL collective goes towards three sports: basketball, gymnastics, and lacrosse. No hockey.

https://www.denvernil.com/

there is no way you actually believe that denver's gymnasts actually get more money than zeev buium. whether the collective is the method or not, that isn't happening.

Oh I don't believe that. But the relevant question here is whether NIL is affecting where a player chooses to play hockey. If Buium is getting an NIL sponsorship on his own rather than through Denver, then he could have done that at another school too. Same with CJ Kirst—he's certainly earning NIL, but not through Cornell, so it isn't correct to say NIL factored in to his decision to come to/stay at Cornell.

Quote from: BearLover

Quote from: ugarte

Quote from: BearLoverDenver's NIL collective goes towards three sports: basketball, gymnastics, and lacrosse. No hockey.

https://www.denvernil.com/

there is no way you actually believe that denver's gymnasts actually get more money than zeev buium. whether the collective is the method or not, that isn't happening.

Oh I don't believe that. But the relevant question here is whether NIL is affecting where a player chooses to play hockey. If Buium is getting an NIL sponsorship on his own rather than through Denver, then he could have done that at another school too. Same with CJ Kirst—he's certainly earning NIL, but not through Cornell, so it isn't correct to say NIL factored in to his decision to come to/stay at Cornell.

citation needed. presumably the money (and i assume he was getting paid) is coming from someone in the denver fan base who wanted the guy to be at denver. there's more than one way to skin a cat and if hockey is outside the collective it's because the support is sufficiently endogenous to the broader program that it doesn't require institutional funneling. open your mind to the idea that you don't figure everything out the first time you think about it and every new fact won't have to be slotted into that conclusion.

The CHL gets far more great players than the NC$$.  

That used to be because of prejudice by the Canadian hockey community against US colleges: the Pussy Effect.  Then it was the momentum of their historical reputation plus scoping the field to include players unable to count: the SEC Effect.

Now, well, we'll find out. I strongly suspect you can matriculate 4 years at some schools without ever seeing a textbook, so maybe we'll see the rockhead schools dominate.

(https://se-images.campuslabs.com/clink/images/77791b8c-3e3e-4319-8a8b-733d3d874b8538c93ee1-d91b-408f-9ea3-ea13c81d36b5.png?preset=med-sq)

Quote from: ugarte

Quote from: BearLover

Quote from: ugarte

Quote from: BearLoverDenver's NIL collective goes towards three sports: basketball, gymnastics, and lacrosse. No hockey.

https://www.denvernil.com/

there is no way you actually believe that denver's gymnasts actually get more money than zeev buium. whether the collective is the method or not, that isn't happening.

Oh I don't believe that. But the relevant question here is whether NIL is affecting where a player chooses to play hockey. If Buium is getting an NIL sponsorship on his own rather than through Denver, then he could have done that at another school too. Same with CJ Kirst—he's certainly earning NIL, but not through Cornell, so it isn't correct to say NIL factored in to his decision to come to/stay at Cornell.

citation needed. presumably the money (and i assume he was getting paid) is coming from someone in the denver fan base who wanted the guy to be at denver. there's more than one way to skin a cat and if hockey is outside the collective it's because the support is sufficiently endogenous to the broader program that it doesn't require institutional funneling. open your mind to the idea that you don't figure everything out the first time you think about it and every new fact won't have to be slotted into that conclusion.

I'll ignore your condescending last sentence and respond to the first part of your post: I highly doubt he is receiving substantial funding from "someone in the denver fan base who wanted the guy to be at denver." Buium committed to Denver years ago before he was a bona fide star, and he chose Denver because his brother was going there. It is not a reasonable "presumption" that he came to Denver because of a rich donor any more than it is that CJ Kirst came to Cornell because of a rich donor. A top recruit committed to a top hockey program to play with his brother, he left after two seasons, their coach is on record saying Denver hockey doesn't do NIL, and their collective doesn't go towards hockey. He's probably endorsed by Bauer or Chipotle or something but not because of anything to do with Denver.

Quote from: BearLoverDenver's NIL collective goes towards three sports: basketball, gymnastics, and lacrosse. No hockey.

https://www.denvernil.com/

Hockey or not, this mechanism legitimizes side payments, which make it easy to get around the IL's prohibition of athletic scholarships.

Quote from: Crimson & Gold CollectiveIs the Crimson & Gold Collective affiliated with the University of Denver?
Following NCAA rules and regulations, the collective remains an independent third party that collaborates with DU student-athletes but is not affiliated with the university. Crimson & Gold Collective FAQ (https://www.denvernil.com/faq)

Quote from: ugarte

Quote from: BearLoverDenver's NIL collective goes towards three sports: basketball, gymnastics, and lacrosse. No hockey.

https://www.denvernil.com/

there is no way you actually believe that denver's gymnasts actually get more money than zeev buium. whether the collective is the method or not, that isn't happening.

Depends. They have a Livvy Dunne lookalike?

Quote from: Swampy

Quote from: BearLoverDenver's NIL collective goes towards three sports: basketball, gymnastics, and lacrosse. No hockey.

https://www.denvernil.com/

Hockey or not, this mechanism legitimizes side payments, which make it easy to get around the IL's prohibition of athletic scholarships.

Quote from: Crimson & Gold CollectiveIs the Crimson & Gold Collective affiliated with the University of Denver?
Following NCAA rules and regulations, the collective remains an independent third party that collaborates with DU student-athletes but is not affiliated with the university. Crimson & Gold Collective FAQ (https://www.denvernil.com/faq)

This part from Denver's web site was also conveniently left out ...

QuoteWe are actively pursuing involvement from ALL athletic programs at the University of Denver.

if this was supposed to be some "gotcha" about Denver hockey not participating in NIL and rev share - then it's just comical. Again, instead of just replying with "Yeah, you're right" - we have to jump through hoops to find any nugget to justify a wrong opinion.

Quote from: adamw

Quote from: Swampy

Quote from: BearLoverDenver's NIL collective goes towards three sports: basketball, gymnastics, and lacrosse. No hockey.

https://www.denvernil.com/

Hockey or not, this mechanism legitimizes side payments, which make it easy to get around the IL's prohibition of athletic scholarships.

Quote from: Crimson & Gold CollectiveIs the Crimson & Gold Collective affiliated with the University of Denver?
Following NCAA rules and regulations, the collective remains an independent third party that collaborates with DU student-athletes but is not affiliated with the university. Crimson & Gold Collective FAQ (https://www.denvernil.com/faq)

This part from Denver's web site was also conveniently left out ...

QuoteWe are actively pursuing involvement from ALL athletic programs at the University of Denver.

if this was supposed to be some "gotcha" about Denver hockey not participating in NIL and rev share - then it's just comical. Again, instead of just replying with "Yeah, you're right" - we have to jump through hoops to find any nugget to justify a wrong opinion.

I just thought it was an interesting "nugget." Wasn't directed at you, and also don't know what "wrong opinion" you're referring to. It's just another piece of evidence NIL plays little to no role at places like Denver. Maybe that will change, or maybe it's not like that at other schools. Not interested in arguing about this anymore at all tbh, I literally just thought it was interesting.

Quote from: BearLoverI'll ignore your condescending last sentence

that's the only one that mattered!

Quote from: ugarte

Quote from: BearLoverI'll ignore your condescending last sentence

that's the only one that mattered!

(https://img.wattpad.com/cover/355579627-256-k135877.jpg)

Robertson leading NCAA defensemen in scoring

https://www.quanthockey.com/ncaa/en/seasons/ncaa-defensemen-stats.html

Quote from: rstott on October 30, 2025, 02:32:35 PMRobertson leading NCAA defensemen in scoring

https://www.quanthockey.com/ncaa/en/seasons/ncaa-defensemen-stats.html

1.25 assists per game. What the hell. Good for him.

Quote from: stereax on October 30, 2025, 03:46:27 PM

Quote from: rstott on October 30, 2025, 02:32:35 PMRobertson leading NCAA defensemen in scoring

https://www.quanthockey.com/ncaa/en/seasons/ncaa-defensemen-stats.html

1.25 assists per game. What the hell. Good for him.

Good for him in the literal sense that it is good for him.

Quote from: stereax on October 30, 2025, 03:46:27 PM

Quote from: rstott on October 30, 2025, 02:32:35 PMRobertson leading NCAA defensemen in scoring

https://www.quanthockey.com/ncaa/en/seasons/ncaa-defensemen-stats.html

1.25 assists per game. What the hell. Good for him.

must be nice to play with finishers!

Quote from: ugarte on October 30, 2025, 04:31:01 PM

Quote from: stereax on October 30, 2025, 03:46:27 PM

Quote from: rstott on October 30, 2025, 02:32:35 PMRobertson leading NCAA defensemen in scoring

https://www.quanthockey.com/ncaa/en/seasons/ncaa-defensemen-stats.html

1.25 assists per game. What the hell. Good for him.

must be nice to play with finishers!

-- Bonni Blue

Ive been checking in on Robertson's performance periodically hoping to find him publicly quoted.on why he left. has been Still haven't seen that, but saw this today:

QuoteMichigan Daily (https://www.michigandaily.com/sports/ice-hockey/ben-robertson-bridging-gap-between-both-ends-of-ice/)

"When (Robertson) went in the portal, it's like, 'Dude, you're made to play at Michigan' with how he thinks the game," Michigan coach Brandon Naurato said Tuesday. "And he's responsible too, he's not high risk, high reward. He makes the right play at the right time."

Who knows if that's the rationale in Robertson's mind, but it's along the lines of why I thought he left; a more natural for his game.

Based on his performance up there to date, looks like he's really getting to show what he can do when surrounded with high end talent playing in a high powered offense.  Two years there (vs. here) will give him a much better shot at sticking in the show.

It's not just his assists.

• 11 games, 0G, 11A, 11pts
• P/PG: T4 on the team at 1.0
• +/-: T1 at 11
• TOI: leads team 19:26
• PIM: 2
  
• Blocked Shots: 2d on the team with 18.leader has 21, but 3rd is all the way down at 13
  

CHN has developed their CHIP stat, which I have no technical knowledge or understanding of how good a stat that is, but CHN describes it as Akin to WAR in baseball (https://www.collegehockeynews.com/info/?d=stats-glossary)

Amongst defensemen, he's trailing only BU's Cole Hutson and Ty Hanson of UMD.

Quote from: abmarks on November 08, 2025, 07:12:17 PMIve been checking in on Robertson's performance periodically hoping to find him publicly quoted.on why he left. has been Still haven't seen that, but saw this today:

QuoteMichigan Daily (https://www.michigandaily.com/sports/ice-hockey/ben-robertson-bridging-gap-between-both-ends-of-ice/)

"When (Robertson) went in the portal, it's like, 'Dude, you're made to play at Michigan' with how he thinks the game," Michigan coach Brandon Naurato said Tuesday. "And he's responsible too, he's not high risk, high reward. He makes the right play at the right time."

Who knows if that's the rationale in Robertson's mind, but it's along the lines of why I thought he left; a more natural for his game.

Based on his performance up there to date, looks like he's really getting to show what he can do when surrounded with high end talent playing in a high powered offense.  Two years there (vs. here) will give him a much better shot at sticking in the show.

It's not just his assists.

• 11 games, 0G, 11A, 11pts
• P/PG: T4 on the team at 1.0
• +/-: T1 at 11
• TOI: leads team 19:26
• PIM: 2
  
• Blocked Shots: 2d on the team with 18.leader has 21, but 3rd is all the way down at 13
  

CHN has developed their CHIP stat, which I have no technical knowledge or understanding of how good a stat that is, but CHN describes it as Akin to WAR in baseball (https://www.collegehockeynews.com/info/?d=stats-glossary)

Amongst defensemen, he's trailing only BU's Cole Hutson and Ty Hanson of UMD.

Wow. Good for him. Crazy stat.

He's doing well but that quote is just an empty platitude with zero meaning.

i also think there are pretty good odds that the whisper network made it clear to robertson that there were opportunities to be had in the portal and seeing his name in the portal wasn't the first time someone in michigan noticed that he'd be a good fit

Quote from: ugarte on November 09, 2025, 01:49:49 AMi also think there are pretty good odds that the whisper network made it clear to robertson that there were opportunities to be had in the portal and seeing his name in the portal wasn't the first time someone in michigan noticed that he'd be a good fit

(https://api.time.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/08/gettyimages-493656728.jpg?quality=85&w=1800)

Quote from: Trotsky on November 09, 2025, 11:14:05 AM

Quote from: ugarte on November 09, 2025, 01:49:49 AMi also think there are pretty good odds that the whisper network made it clear to robertson that there were opportunities to be had in the portal and seeing his name in the portal wasn't the first time someone in michigan noticed that he'd be a good fit

(https://api.time.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/08/gettyimages-493656728.jpg?quality=85&w=1800)

Quote from: abmarks on November 08, 2025, 07:12:17 PMIve been checking in on Robertson's performance periodically hoping to find him publicly quoted.on why he left. has been Still haven't seen that, but saw this today:

QuoteMichigan Daily (https://www.michigandaily.com/sports/ice-hockey/ben-robertson-bridging-gap-between-both-ends-of-ice/)

"When (Robertson) went in the portal, it's like, 'Dude, you're made to play at Michigan' with how he thinks the game," Michigan coach Brandon Naurato said Tuesday. "And he's responsible too, he's not high risk, high reward. He makes the right play at the right time."

Who knows if that's the rationale in Robertson's mind, but it's along the lines of why I thought he left; a more natural for his game.

Based on his performance up there to date, looks like he's really getting to show what he can do when surrounded with high end talent playing in a high powered offense.  Two years there (vs. here) will give him a much better shot at sticking in the show.

It's not just his assists.

• 11 games, 0G, 11A, 11pts
• P/PG: T4 on the team at 1.0
• +/-: T1 at 11
• TOI: leads team 19:26
• PIM: 2
  
• Blocked Shots: 2d on the team with 18.leader has 21, but 3rd is all the way down at 13
  

CHN has developed their CHIP stat, which I have no technical knowledge or understanding of how good a stat that is, but CHN describes it as Akin to WAR in baseball (https://www.collegehockeynews.com/info/?d=stats-glossary)

Amongst defensemen, he's trailing only BU's Cole Hutson and Ty Hanson of UMD.

As someone who has doomed plenty about losing Robertson, I think there's a lot in this thread that is just not correct.

Robertson's stats are inflated currently.

First of all, let's look at his 11 points (all assists, zero goals). 9 of these 11 points came in massive blowouts against weak opposition: four games against Mercyhurst and Robert Morris that Michigan won by a combined score of 32-5. In eight games against stronger opposition (Providence, WMU, Notre Dame, Wisconsin), Robertson has *two* assists.

Second, Michigan's other top offensive defenseman, Henry Mews, is out for the season. I suspect that means Robertson alone  is quarterbacking the top PP and will be on the ice whenever Michigan desperately needs a goal.

Third, Michigan has extremely high-end offensive talent that Cornell didn't have.

Putting this all together, I'm not surprised at all by Robertson's output and I think it is totally in line with how much he produced at Cornell. I don't agree that this is going to help him get an NHL contract. Whether he gets an NHL contract is a function of whether he is talented enough offensively to counteract the defensive liability of being an undersized defenseman. It is not a function of having more eyes on him or getting to play with more stars.

The NHL has eyes everywhere. It's why Dalton Bancroft was a hot commodity after his *sophomore* season, and it's why there was a bidding war for Sam Malinski. Robertson wasn't drafted because he's a defenseman under 6' who, despite having enough offensive talent to be a great college player, does not have the all-world skill of a Quinn Hughes or Adam Fox.

Thus far he is performing at expectation and I don't think going to Michigan is going to help him get to the NHL. As to why he left, I don't know, probably a combination of multiple factors including financial reasons, the coaching change, and style of play.

And yes, we'd be materially better if he was still on the team. Others can meme about it but him leaving was pretty backbreaking for our at-large chances this season given how thin the margins are.

Quote from: BearLover on November 09, 2025, 08:11:24 PM

Quote from: abmarks on November 08, 2025, 07:12:17 PMIve been checking in on Robertson's performance periodically hoping to find him publicly quoted.on why he left. has been Still haven't seen that, but saw this today:

QuoteMichigan Daily (https://www.michigandaily.com/sports/ice-hockey/ben-robertson-bridging-gap-between-both-ends-of-ice/)

"When (Robertson) went in the portal, it's like, 'Dude, you're made to play at Michigan' with how he thinks the game," Michigan coach Brandon Naurato said Tuesday. "And he's responsible too, he's not high risk, high reward. He makes the right play at the right time."

Who knows if that's the rationale in Robertson's mind, but it's along the lines of why I thought he left; a more natural for his game.

Based on his performance up there to date, looks like he's really getting to show what he can do when surrounded with high end talent playing in a high powered offense.  Two years there (vs. here) will give him a much better shot at sticking in the show.

It's not just his assists.

• 11 games, 0G, 11A, 11pts
• P/PG: T4 on the team at 1.0
• +/-: T1 at 11
• TOI: leads team 19:26
• PIM: 2
  
• Blocked Shots: 2d on the team with 18.leader has 21, but 3rd is all the way down at 13
  

CHN has developed their CHIP stat, which I have no technical knowledge or understanding of how good a stat that is, but CHN describes it as Akin to WAR in baseball (https://www.collegehockeynews.com/info/?d=stats-glossary)

Amongst defensemen, he's trailing only BU's Cole Hutson and Ty Hanson of UMD.

As someone who has doomed plenty about losing Robertson, I think there's a lot in this thread that is just not correct.

Robertson's stats are inflated currently.

First of all, let's look at his 11 points (all assists, zero goals). 9 of these 11 points came in massive blowouts against weak opposition: four games against Mercyhurst and Robert Morris that Michigan won by a combined score of 32-5. In eight games against stronger opposition (Providence, WMU, Notre Dame, Wisconsin), Robertson has *two* assists.

Second, Michigan's other top offensive defenseman, Henry Mews, is out for the season. I suspect that means Robertson alone  is quarterbacking the top PP and will be on the ice whenever Michigan desperately needs a goal.

Third, Michigan has extremely high-end offensive talent that Cornell didn't have.

Putting this all together, I'm not surprised at all by Robertson's output and I think it is totally in line with how much he produced at Cornell. I don't agree that this is going to help him get an NHL contract. Whether he gets an NHL contract is a function of whether he is talented enough offensively to counteract the defensive liability of being an undersized defenseman. It is not a function of having more eyes on him or getting to play with more stars.

The NHL has eyes everywhere. It's why Dalton Bancroft was a hot commodity after his *sophomore* season, and it's why there was a bidding war for Sam Malinski. Robertson wasn't drafted because he's a defenseman under 6' who, despite having enough offensive talent to be a great college player, does not have the all-world skill of a Quinn Hughes or Adam Fox.

Thus far he is performing at expectation and I don't think going to Michigan is going to help him get to the NHL. As to why he left, I don't know, probably a combination of multiple factors including financial reasons, the coaching change, and style of play.

And yes, we'd be materially better if he was still on the team. Others can meme about it but him leaving was pretty backbreaking for our at-large chances this season given how thin the margins are.

You say he's undersized etc etc, but let's compare to Malinski.  Malinski was listed at 5 11, 189 his senior season, and he didn't have all world skills either.  He's been able to nail down a regular role in the show and I don't think anyone had him pegged as a sure thing NHLer.  Bancroft may have been a hot commodity, but he's also far from a lock to become a regular in the NHL.

Perhaps this is why Robertson transfered though:  This is how they do it in Ann Arbor (https://www.instagram.com/reel/DQ3MAEQjD_H/?igsh=bDM0Z2o0a2kxZ3o=).  (Warning, the music is NSFW)

Robertson is #21.   He wasn't going to get any practice in Ithaca on getting a takedown and a pin without having to throw a punch.

Check out wisco #17 at the beginning of the clip in the upper right.   I'd almost feel bad for him except...well he's from wisco.

Quote from: abmarks on November 14, 2025, 07:40:04 AM

Quote from: BearLover on November 09, 2025, 08:11:24 PM

Quote from: abmarks on November 08, 2025, 07:12:17 PMIve been checking in on Robertson's performance periodically hoping to find him publicly quoted.on why he left. has been Still haven't seen that, but saw this today:

QuoteMichigan Daily (https://www.michigandaily.com/sports/ice-hockey/ben-robertson-bridging-gap-between-both-ends-of-ice/)

"When (Robertson) went in the portal, it's like, 'Dude, you're made to play at Michigan' with how he thinks the game," Michigan coach Brandon Naurato said Tuesday. "And he's responsible too, he's not high risk, high reward. He makes the right play at the right time."

Who knows if that's the rationale in Robertson's mind, but it's along the lines of why I thought he left; a more natural for his game.

Based on his performance up there to date, looks like he's really getting to show what he can do when surrounded with high end talent playing in a high powered offense.  Two years there (vs. here) will give him a much better shot at sticking in the show.

It's not just his assists.

• 11 games, 0G, 11A, 11pts
• P/PG: T4 on the team at 1.0
• +/-: T1 at 11
• TOI: leads team 19:26
• PIM: 2
  
• Blocked Shots: 2d on the team with 18.leader has 21, but 3rd is all the way down at 13
  

CHN has developed their CHIP stat, which I have no technical knowledge or understanding of how good a stat that is, but CHN describes it as Akin to WAR in baseball (https://www.collegehockeynews.com/info/?d=stats-glossary)

Amongst defensemen, he's trailing only BU's Cole Hutson and Ty Hanson of UMD.

As someone who has doomed plenty about losing Robertson, I think there's a lot in this thread that is just not correct.

Robertson's stats are inflated currently.

First of all, let's look at his 11 points (all assists, zero goals). 9 of these 11 points came in massive blowouts against weak opposition: four games against Mercyhurst and Robert Morris that Michigan won by a combined score of 32-5. In eight games against stronger opposition (Providence, WMU, Notre Dame, Wisconsin), Robertson has *two* assists.

Second, Michigan's other top offensive defenseman, Henry Mews, is out for the season. I suspect that means Robertson alone  is quarterbacking the top PP and will be on the ice whenever Michigan desperately needs a goal.

Third, Michigan has extremely high-end offensive talent that Cornell didn't have.

Putting this all together, I'm not surprised at all by Robertson's output and I think it is totally in line with how much he produced at Cornell. I don't agree that this is going to help him get an NHL contract. Whether he gets an NHL contract is a function of whether he is talented enough offensively to counteract the defensive liability of being an undersized defenseman. It is not a function of having more eyes on him or getting to play with more stars.

The NHL has eyes everywhere. It's why Dalton Bancroft was a hot commodity after his *sophomore* season, and it's why there was a bidding war for Sam Malinski. Robertson wasn't drafted because he's a defenseman under 6' who, despite having enough offensive talent to be a great college player, does not have the all-world skill of a Quinn Hughes or Adam Fox.

Thus far he is performing at expectation and I don't think going to Michigan is going to help him get to the NHL. As to why he left, I don't know, probably a combination of multiple factors including financial reasons, the coaching change, and style of play.

And yes, we'd be materially better if he was still on the team. Others can meme about it but him leaving was pretty backbreaking for our at-large chances this season given how thin the margins are.

You say he's undersized etc etc, but let's compare to Malinski.  Malinski was listed at 5 11, 189 his senior season, and he didn't have all world skills either.  He's been able to nail down a regular role in the show and I don't think anyone had him pegged as a sure thing NHLer.  Bancroft may have been a hot commodity, but he's also far from a lock to become a regular in the NHL.

Perhaps this is why Robertson transfered though:  This is how they do it in Ann Arbor (https://www.instagram.com/reel/DQ3MAEQjD_H/?igsh=bDM0Z2o0a2kxZ3o=).  (Warning, the music is NSFW)

Robertson is #21.   He wasn't going to get any practice in Ithaca on getting a takedown and a pin without having to throw a punch.

Check out wisco #17 at the beginning of the clip in the upper right.   I'd almost feel bad for him except...well he's from wisco.

Book him some time with the wrestlers. I'm sure he'd pick it up.

Also, god those jerseys are UGLY yellow.

Uni-wise, Michigan does less with more than any school.  Superior colors (get it?) but their uniforms have always been shit in every sport.  And god those cringe helmets.

Quote from: Trotsky on November 14, 2025, 12:04:06 PMUni-wise, Michigan does less with more than any school.  Superior colors (get it?) but their uniforms have always been shit in every sport.  And god those cringe helmets.

Agreed that the  current yellow is totally fugly and I don't think it's maize, technically.  But the more goldish yellow version that was the 3rd jersey In the late '90s and certainly for a long time after was HOF-worthy

Michigan-Ohio State is always an affront to human aesthetic dignity.  Midwesterners lack elan.

(https://itsmynest.com/wp-content/uploads/2025/03/Cabbage-Rose-Prints.jpg)

News Flash:  CHN with the scoop - straight from the horse's mouth:    Robertson: "flying on a private jet to away games" (https://www.collegehockeynews.com/news/2025/11/26_Robertsons-Rare-Move-Brings.php)

Quoting only the main couple sentences. Don't want to cost Adam the ad revenue. ;)

QuoteA big factor in his decision was cost. Ivy League schools do not offer full-time athletic scholarships, so he felt that it was a lot to ask for his parents to pay for another full season of school. Meanwhile, the tuition kept increasing.

...

"I could probably say it was the hardest decision I've had to make in my life. The success I had, the friendships that I made there, obviously going into college there as a freshman. I made a ton of great memories there with the older guys that we had," Robertson said.

As some (myself included) rightfully thought before, cost was the big factor rather than academics or something else. I do wonder if he still transfers if Schafer doesn't retire, though. Between the coaching staff changes and a lot of the older guys he mentioned leaving the team, it was almost a perfect storm of circumstances for him to leave.

Quote from: BearLoverAs to why he left, I don't know, probably a combination of multiple factors including financial reasons, the coaching change, and style of play.

Sounds about right. He was unhappy with how things were going at Cornell and thought he would progress better at Michigan. He also cites cost. (Which is weird, because if tuition were too high as the article states then you'd think he would qualify for financial aid.) And I bet the coaching change provided the impetus to make the switch. Nothing in the article about NIL or more eyes being on him.

Hugely disappointing in any event for someone who will wish he had a Cornell degree five years from now.

Quote from: BearLover on November 27, 2025, 10:29:14 PM

Quote from: BearLoverAs to why he left, I don't know, probably a combination of multiple factors including financial reasons, the coaching change, and style of play.

Sounds about right. He was unhappy with how things were going at Cornell and thought he would progress better at Michigan. He also cites cost. (Which is weird, because if tuition were too high as the article states then you'd think he would qualify for financial aid.) And I bet the coaching change provided the impetus to make the switch. Nothing in the article about NIL or more eyes being on him.

Hugely disappointing in any event for someone who will wish he had a Cornell degree five years from now.

Even if pro hockey doesn't work out, his Michigan degree will open plenty of doors.

Quote from: scoop85 on November 27, 2025, 11:38:55 PM

Quote from: BearLover on November 27, 2025, 10:29:14 PM

Quote from: BearLoverAs to why he left, I don't know, probably a combination of multiple factors including financial reasons, the coaching change, and style of play.

Sounds about right. He was unhappy with how things were going at Cornell and thought he would progress better at Michigan. He also cites cost. (Which is weird, because if tuition were too high as the article states then you'd think he would qualify for financial aid.) And I bet the coaching change provided the impetus to make the switch. Nothing in the article about NIL or more eyes being on him.

Hugely disappointing in any event for someone who will wish he had a Cornell degree five years from now.

Even if pro hockey doesn't work out, his Michigan degree will open plenty of doors.

Yeah, Mich is still a damn good school to get a degree from in today's job market. Not like he transferred to a degree mill like Q, lol.

Also, though - there's a difference between "qualifying for financial aid" and "insane tuition costs". Financial aid only comes in if the family makes less than some amount a year. You can easily make more than that, even significantly more, and still have it be a struggle to pay tuition. (Plus, doubtful Robertson's family is super poor - hockey requires a lot of resources to get into in the first place.) So yeah, I do empathize with that as well.

Quote from: BearLover on November 27, 2025, 10:29:14 PM

Quote from: BearLoverAs to why he left, I don't know, probably a combination of multiple factors including financial reasons, the coaching change, and style of play.

Sounds about right. He was unhappy with how things were going at Cornell and thought he would progress better at Michigan. He also cites cost. (Which is weird, because if tuition were too high as the article states then you'd think he would qualify for financial aid.) And I bet the coaching change provided the impetus to make the switch. Nothing in the article about NIL or more eyes being on him.

Hugely disappointing in any event for someone who will wish he had a Cornell degree five years from now.

I didn't see anything in that article suggesting that he was unhappy with how things were going at Cornell.

Quote from: scoop85 on November 27, 2025, 11:38:55 PM

Quote from: BearLover on November 27, 2025, 10:29:14 PM

Quote from: BearLoverAs to why he left, I don't know, probably a combination of multiple factors including financial reasons, the coaching change, and style of play.

Sounds about right. He was unhappy with how things were going at Cornell and thought he would progress better at Michigan. He also cites cost. (Which is weird, because if tuition were too high as the article states then you'd think he would qualify for financial aid.) And I bet the coaching change provided the impetus to make the switch. Nothing in the article about NIL or more eyes being on him.

Hugely disappointing in any event for someone who will wish he had a Cornell degree five years from now.

Even if pro hockey doesn't work out, his Michigan degree will open plenty of doors.

I don't really agree...Michigan is a good school, of course, but career outcomes are massively different. Any Cornell hockey player with decent grades is a shoe-in to a white collar career. There are tons of recent Cornell hockey grads in ritzy jobs that I highly doubt are available to Michigan grads to anywhere near the same degree.

Quote from: Dafatone on November 28, 2025, 12:28:04 AM

Quote from: BearLover on November 27, 2025, 10:29:14 PM

Quote from: BearLoverAs to why he left, I don't know, probably a combination of multiple factors including financial reasons, the coaching change, and style of play.

Sounds about right. He was unhappy with how things were going at Cornell and thought he would progress better at Michigan. He also cites cost. (Which is weird, because if tuition were too high as the article states then you'd think he would qualify for financial aid.) And I bet the coaching change provided the impetus to make the switch. Nothing in the article about NIL or more eyes being on him.

Hugely disappointing in any event for someone who will wish he had a Cornell degree five years from now.

I didn't see anything in that article suggesting that he was unhappy with how things were going at Cornell.

"Though he says he was starting to find his footing at the end of Cornell's season, he felt that he wasn't playing to his full potential, and it wasn't just from a numbers standpoint."

"'I just kind of lost focus of just going out there and doing all the little things right,' Robertson said. 'It was definitely a little frustrating, but not because the production wasn't there, just because I don't think I really wanted to play the way I played through most of the season.'"

Seems clear to me he wasn't happy with how things were going at Cornell? Sounds like he was incredibly frustrated last season.

Quote from: stereax on November 28, 2025, 12:08:11 AM

Quote from: scoop85 on November 27, 2025, 11:38:55 PM

Quote from: BearLover on November 27, 2025, 10:29:14 PM

Quote from: BearLoverAs to why he left, I don't know, probably a combination of multiple factors including financial reasons, the coaching change, and style of play.

Sounds about right. He was unhappy with how things were going at Cornell and thought he would progress better at Michigan. He also cites cost. (Which is weird, because if tuition were too high as the article states then you'd think he would qualify for financial aid.) And I bet the coaching change provided the impetus to make the switch. Nothing in the article about NIL or more eyes being on him.

Hugely disappointing in any event for someone who will wish he had a Cornell degree five years from now.

Even if pro hockey doesn't work out, his Michigan degree will open plenty of doors.

Yeah, Mich is still a damn good school to get a degree from in today's job market. Not like he transferred to a degree mill like Q, lol.

Also, though - there's a difference between "qualifying for financial aid" and "insane tuition costs". Financial aid only comes in if the family makes less than some amount a year. You can easily make more than that, even significantly more, and still have it be a struggle to pay tuition. (Plus, doubtful Robertson's family is super poor - hockey requires a lot of resources to get into in the first place.) So yeah, I do empathize with that as well.

As someone who has both personally and as a family fallen in that donut hole of where I made too much for aid and not enough to pay out of pocket and not be on the street, I know exactly where his head is at, where some entitled pricks obviously don't. Hockey and school is expensive and there isn't some magical money fountain that turns on if you're too poor.

Quote from: The Rancor on November 28, 2025, 08:49:32 AM

Quote from: stereax on November 28, 2025, 12:08:11 AM

Quote from: scoop85 on November 27, 2025, 11:38:55 PM

Quote from: BearLover on November 27, 2025, 10:29:14 PM

Quote from: BearLoverAs to why he left, I don't know, probably a combination of multiple factors including financial reasons, the coaching change, and style of play.

Sounds about right. He was unhappy with how things were going at Cornell and thought he would progress better at Michigan. He also cites cost. (Which is weird, because if tuition were too high as the article states then you'd think he would qualify for financial aid.) And I bet the coaching change provided the impetus to make the switch. Nothing in the article about NIL or more eyes being on him.

Hugely disappointing in any event for someone who will wish he had a Cornell degree five years from now.

Even if pro hockey doesn't work out, his Michigan degree will open plenty of doors.

Yeah, Mich is still a damn good school to get a degree from in today's job market. Not like he transferred to a degree mill like Q, lol.

Also, though - there's a difference between "qualifying for financial aid" and "insane tuition costs". Financial aid only comes in if the family makes less than some amount a year. You can easily make more than that, even significantly more, and still have it be a struggle to pay tuition. (Plus, doubtful Robertson's family is super poor - hockey requires a lot of resources to get into in the first place.) So yeah, I do empathize with that as well.

As someone who has both personally and as a family fallen in that donut hole of where I made too much for aid and not enough to pay out of pocket and not be on the street, I know exactly where his head is at, where some entitled pricks obviously doesn't. Hockey and school is expensive and there isn't some magical money fountain that turns on if you're too poor.

... or if you are a middle class family who poured all your disposable money into supporting your gifted son.

Quote from: The Rancor on November 28, 2025, 08:49:32 AM

Quote from: stereax on November 28, 2025, 12:08:11 AM

Quote from: scoop85 on November 27, 2025, 11:38:55 PM

Quote from: BearLover on November 27, 2025, 10:29:14 PM

Quote from: BearLoverAs to why he left, I don't know, probably a combination of multiple factors including financial reasons, the coaching change, and style of play.

Sounds about right. He was unhappy with how things were going at Cornell and thought he would progress better at Michigan. He also cites cost. (Which is weird, because if tuition were too high as the article states then you'd think he would qualify for financial aid.) And I bet the coaching change provided the impetus to make the switch. Nothing in the article about NIL or more eyes being on him.

Hugely disappointing in any event for someone who will wish he had a Cornell degree five years from now.

Even if pro hockey doesn't work out, his Michigan degree will open plenty of doors.

Yeah, Mich is still a damn good school to get a degree from in today's job market. Not like he transferred to a degree mill like Q, lol.

Also, though - there's a difference between "qualifying for financial aid" and "insane tuition costs". Financial aid only comes in if the family makes less than some amount a year. You can easily make more than that, even significantly more, and still have it be a struggle to pay tuition. (Plus, doubtful Robertson's family is super poor - hockey requires a lot of resources to get into in the first place.) So yeah, I do empathize with that as well.

As someone who has both personally and as a family fallen in that donut hole of where I made too much for aid and not enough to pay out of pocket and not be on the street, I know exactly where his head is at, where some entitled pricks obviously don't. Hockey and school is expensive and there isn't some magical money fountain that turns on if you're too poor.

You don't need to call someone an entitled prick just because they have a different opinion

Quote from: BearLover on November 28, 2025, 01:14:07 AM

Quote from: scoop85 on November 27, 2025, 11:38:55 PM

Quote from: BearLover on November 27, 2025, 10:29:14 PM

Quote from: BearLoverAs to why he left, I don't know, probably a combination of multiple factors including financial reasons, the coaching change, and style of play.

Sounds about right. He was unhappy with how things were going at Cornell and thought he would progress better at Michigan. He also cites cost. (Which is weird, because if tuition were too high as the article states then you'd think he would qualify for financial aid.) And I bet the coaching change provided the impetus to make the switch. Nothing in the article about NIL or more eyes being on him.

Hugely disappointing in any event for someone who will wish he had a Cornell degree five years from now.

Even if pro hockey doesn't work out, his Michigan degree will open plenty of doors.

I don't really agree...Michigan is a good school, of course, but career outcomes are massively different. Any Cornell hockey player with decent grades is a shoe-in to a white collar career. There are tons of recent Cornell hockey grads in ritzy jobs that I highly doubt are available to Michigan grads to anywhere near the same degree.

You have zero idea what you're talking about.

Quote from: scoop85 on November 28, 2025, 11:04:16 AM

Quote from: BearLover on November 28, 2025, 01:14:07 AM

Quote from: scoop85 on November 27, 2025, 11:38:55 PM

Quote from: BearLover on November 27, 2025, 10:29:14 PM

Quote from: BearLoverAs to why he left, I don't know, probably a combination of multiple factors including financial reasons, the coaching change, and style of play.

Sounds about right. He was unhappy with how things were going at Cornell and thought he would progress better at Michigan. He also cites cost. (Which is weird, because if tuition were too high as the article states then you'd think he would qualify for financial aid.) And I bet the coaching change provided the impetus to make the switch. Nothing in the article about NIL or more eyes being on him.

Hugely disappointing in any event for someone who will wish he had a Cornell degree five years from now.

Even if pro hockey doesn't work out, his Michigan degree will open plenty of doors.

I don't really agree...Michigan is a good school, of course, but career outcomes are massively different. Any Cornell hockey player with decent grades is a shoe-in to a white collar career. There are tons of recent Cornell hockey grads in ritzy jobs that I highly doubt are available to Michigan grads to anywhere near the same degree.

You have zero idea what you're talking about.

Great post dude. I suggest you look at where most of the Cornell hockey players from the past year 15 years who've retired from hockey are now working (check their LinkedIn if you'd like), then reflect on the fact that most have cushy white collar jobs. Maybe also ask someone at Morgan Stanley about the relative weight of a Cornell vs Michigan degree. I don't know where Michigan hockey alums (who are out of hockey) are now working, but I'd wager it's not in the same stratosphere. P.S. I literally don't care about this stuff, I hate white collar culture and hiring practices, I'm just stating something that's self-evident if you've been paying attention.

Where Are They Now? Cornell Hockey 2017-18.

The following is every player from this team that graduated from Cornell and is  retired from hockey. This team earned a 1-seed in the NCAA tournament.

Brendan Smith—marketing in SF
Matt Nuttle-finance in NYC
Cam Donaldson-finance in NYC
Noah Bauld-investment banking at Goldman Sachs in NYC
Trevor Yates-finance in NYC
Beau Starrett-senior account executive at Trustpilot [idk what this is] in NYC
Connor Murphy-investment banking at TD in Toronto
Dwyer Tschantz-account manager at healthcare manufacturing company in Michigan
Brendan Locke-finance in NYC
Austin McGrath-medical student
Matt Galajda-investment analyst for HEI Hotels

Every other player on the team is either still playing or, in a couple of cases, coaching hockey, as far as I can tell. 

Quote from: scoop85 on November 27, 2025, 11:38:55 PM

Quote from: BearLover on November 27, 2025, 10:29:14 PM

Quote from: BearLoverAs to why he left, I don't know, probably a combination of multiple factors including financial reasons, the coaching change, and style of play.

Sounds about right. He was unhappy with how things were going at Cornell and thought he would progress better at Michigan. He also cites cost. (Which is weird, because if tuition were too high as the article states then you'd think he would qualify for financial aid.) And I bet the coaching change provided the impetus to make the switch. Nothing in the article about NIL or more eyes being on him.

Hugely disappointing in any event for someone who will wish he had a Cornell degree five years from now.

Even if pro hockey doesn't work out, his Michigan degree will open plenty of doors.

And he now has two very large alumni networks to draw from.

As far as "scholarship" vs "financial aid" goes, it's a convenient talking point for the locals back home and media to use one and rarely understand the other when addressing educational costs.

Well, we can see Robertson play against Sucks again later and that game should be on ESPN+

Quote from: BearLover on November 28, 2025, 11:51:52 AMWhere Are They Now? Cornell Hockey 2017-18.

The following is every player from this team that graduated from Cornell and is  retired from hockey. This team earned a 1-seed in the NCAA tournament.

Brendan Smith—marketing in SF
Matt Nuttle-finance in NYC
Cam Donaldson-finance in NYC
Noah Bauld-investment banking at Goldman Sachs in NYC
Trevor Yates-finance in NYC
Beau Starrett-senior account executive at Trustpilot [idk what this is] in NYC
Connor Murphy-investment banking at TD in Toronto
Dwyer Tschantz-account manager at healthcare manufacturing company in Michigan
Brendan Locke-finance in NYC
Austin McGrath-medical student
Matt Galajda-investment analyst for HEI Hotels

Every other player on the team is either still playing or, in a couple of cases, coaching hockey, as far as I can tell. 

I ran into Mitch Vanderlaan a few years ago. I think he's still working for a firm in the Philadelphia area, but not sure since it's been a while.

Quote from: BearLover on November 28, 2025, 11:27:39 AM

Quote from: scoop85 on November 28, 2025, 11:04:16 AM

Quote from: BearLover on November 28, 2025, 01:14:07 AM

Quote from: scoop85 on November 27, 2025, 11:38:55 PM

Quote from: BearLover on November 27, 2025, 10:29:14 PM

Quote from: BearLoverAs to why he left, I don't know, probably a combination of multiple factors including financial reasons, the coaching change, and style of play.

Sounds about right. He was unhappy with how things were going at Cornell and thought he would progress better at Michigan. He also cites cost. (Which is weird, because if tuition were too high as the article states then you'd think he would qualify for financial aid.) And I bet the coaching change provided the impetus to make the switch. Nothing in the article about NIL or more eyes being on him.

Hugely disappointing in any event for someone who will wish he had a Cornell degree five years from now.

Even if pro hockey doesn't work out, his Michigan degree will open plenty of doors.

I don't really agree...Michigan is a good school, of course, but career outcomes are massively different. Any Cornell hockey player with decent grades is a shoe-in to a white collar career. There are tons of recent Cornell hockey grads in ritzy jobs that I highly doubt are available to Michigan grads to anywhere near the same degree.

You have zero idea what you're talking about.

Great post dude. I suggest you look at where most of the Cornell hockey players from the past year 15 years who've retired from hockey are now working (check their LinkedIn if you'd like), then reflect on the fact that most have cushy white collar jobs. Maybe also ask someone at Morgan Stanley about the relative weight of a Cornell vs Michigan degree. I don't know where Michigan hockey alums (who are out of hockey) are now working, but I'd wager it's not in the same stratosphere. P.S. I literally don't care about this stuff, I hate white collar culture and hiring practices, I'm just stating something that's self-evident if you've been paying attention.

"Dude," we know Cornell has a terrific alumni network. But, you made a broad and unsupported statement regarding the value of his Michigan degree. Michigan has a massive alumni network and plenty of graduates in high powered Wall Street positions.

As is often the case, you failed to read the room.

Plus it does also sound like he's still on good terms with his friends (and former teammates) from Cornell. He'll figure it out. Promise lol.

Quote from: scoop85 on November 28, 2025, 12:49:05 PM

Quote from: BearLover on November 28, 2025, 11:27:39 AM

Quote from: scoop85 on November 28, 2025, 11:04:16 AM

Quote from: BearLover on November 28, 2025, 01:14:07 AM

Quote from: scoop85 on November 27, 2025, 11:38:55 PM

Quote from: BearLover on November 27, 2025, 10:29:14 PM

Quote from: BearLoverAs to why he left, I don't know, probably a combination of multiple factors including financial reasons, the coaching change, and style of play.

Sounds about right. He was unhappy with how things were going at Cornell and thought he would progress better at Michigan. He also cites cost. (Which is weird, because if tuition were too high as the article states then you'd think he would qualify for financial aid.) And I bet the coaching change provided the impetus to make the switch. Nothing in the article about NIL or more eyes being on him.

Hugely disappointing in any event for someone who will wish he had a Cornell degree five years from now.

Even if pro hockey doesn't work out, his Michigan degree will open plenty of doors.

I don't really agree...Michigan is a good school, of course, but career outcomes are massively different. Any Cornell hockey player with decent grades is a shoe-in to a white collar career. There are tons of recent Cornell hockey grads in ritzy jobs that I highly doubt are available to Michigan grads to anywhere near the same degree.

You have zero idea what you're talking about.

Great post dude. I suggest you look at where most of the Cornell hockey players from the past year 15 years who've retired from hockey are now working (check their LinkedIn if you'd like), then reflect on the fact that most have cushy white collar jobs. Maybe also ask someone at Morgan Stanley about the relative weight of a Cornell vs Michigan degree. I don't know where Michigan hockey alums (who are out of hockey) are now working, but I'd wager it's not in the same stratosphere. P.S. I literally don't care about this stuff, I hate white collar culture and hiring practices, I'm just stating something that's self-evident if you've been paying attention.

"Dude," we know Cornell has a terrific alumni network. But, you made a broad and unsupported statement regarding the value of his Michigan degree. Michigan has a massive alumni network and plenty of graduates in high powered Wall Street positions.

As is often the case, you failed to read the room.

Michigan has a good alumni network, yes. Cornell (specifically Cornell hockey) has a better one. Adjusting for the fact Michigan is a much bigger school, you're a lot more likely to get hired coming out of Cornell, particularly Cornell hockey, where it seems such jobs are available to any player who wants them and has half-decent grades. The point here is that Robertson took a significant step down in career prospects by transferring out of Cornell.

Quote from: scoop85 on November 28, 2025, 12:49:05 PM

Quote from: BearLover on November 28, 2025, 11:27:39 AM

Quote from: scoop85 on November 28, 2025, 11:04:16 AM

Quote from: BearLover on November 28, 2025, 01:14:07 AM

Quote from: scoop85 on November 27, 2025, 11:38:55 PM

Quote from: BearLover on November 27, 2025, 10:29:14 PM

Quote from: BearLoverAs to why he left, I don't know, probably a combination of multiple factors including financial reasons, the coaching change, and style of play.

Sounds about right. He was unhappy with how things were going at Cornell and thought he would progress better at Michigan. He also cites cost. (Which is weird, because if tuition were too high as the article states then you'd think he would qualify for financial aid.) And I bet the coaching change provided the impetus to make the switch. Nothing in the article about NIL or more eyes being on him.

Hugely disappointing in any event for someone who will wish he had a Cornell degree five years from now.

Even if pro hockey doesn't work out, his Michigan degree will open plenty of doors.

I don't really agree...Michigan is a good school, of course, but career outcomes are massively different. Any Cornell hockey player with decent grades is a shoe-in to a white collar career. There are tons of recent Cornell hockey grads in ritzy jobs that I highly doubt are available to Michigan grads to anywhere near the same degree.

You have zero idea what you're talking about.

Great post dude. I suggest you look at where most of the Cornell hockey players from the past year 15 years who've retired from hockey are now working (check their LinkedIn if you'd like), then reflect on the fact that most have cushy white collar jobs. Maybe also ask someone at Morgan Stanley about the relative weight of a Cornell vs Michigan degree. I don't know where Michigan hockey alums (who are out of hockey) are now working, but I'd wager it's not in the same stratosphere. P.S. I literally don't care about this stuff, I hate white collar culture and hiring practices, I'm just stating something that's self-evident if you've been paying attention.

As is often the case, you failed to read the room.

I'm going to call for an end to this argument but just fyi I wasn't being obtuse, I understood exactly what you meant and just disagreed. I haven't studied the career outcomes for Michigan hockey alumni but I have an extremely hard to believing they're on par with those of Cornell hockey alums.

Quote from: BearLover on November 28, 2025, 01:27:01 AM

Quote from: Dafatone on November 28, 2025, 12:28:04 AM

Quote from: BearLover on November 27, 2025, 10:29:14 PM

Quote from: BearLoverAs to why he left, I don't know, probably a combination of multiple factors including financial reasons, the coaching change, and style of play.

Sounds about right. He was unhappy with how things were going at Cornell and thought he would progress better at Michigan. He also cites cost. (Which is weird, because if tuition were too high as the article states then you'd think he would qualify for financial aid.) And I bet the coaching change provided the impetus to make the switch. Nothing in the article about NIL or more eyes being on him.

Hugely disappointing in any event for someone who will wish he had a Cornell degree five years from now.

I didn't see anything in that article suggesting that he was unhappy with how things were going at Cornell.

"Though he says he was starting to find his footing at the end of Cornell's season, he felt that he wasn't playing to his full potential, and it wasn't just from a numbers standpoint."

"'I just kind of lost focus of just going out there and doing all the little things right,' Robertson said. 'It was definitely a little frustrating, but not because the production wasn't there, just because I don't think I really wanted to play the way I played through most of the season.'"

Seems clear to me he wasn't happy with how things were going at Cornell? Sounds like he was incredibly frustrated last season.

Last year was bad all around (until it wasn't). There's a difference between "I had a down year and it sucked that I didn't play well" and "I was unhappy being there."

Quote from: RichH on November 28, 2025, 12:17:53 PMAnd he now has two very large alumni networks to draw from.

War's over.  Hvorka dropped the big one.


(https://oyster.ignimgs.com/wordpress/stg.ign.com/2014/05/dean-wormer-610x361.jpg?width=1280&height=720&fit=bounds&dpr=2&format=jpg&auto=webp&quality=80)

Fig. 1.  Zero.  Point.  Zero.

Quote from: Dafatone on November 28, 2025, 01:41:30 PM

Quote from: BearLover on November 28, 2025, 01:27:01 AM

Quote from: Dafatone on November 28, 2025, 12:28:04 AM

Quote from: BearLover on November 27, 2025, 10:29:14 PM

Quote from: BearLoverAs to why he left, I don't know, probably a combination of multiple factors including financial reasons, the coaching change, and style of play.

Sounds about right. He was unhappy with how things were going at Cornell and thought he would progress better at Michigan. He also cites cost. (Which is weird, because if tuition were too high as the article states then you'd think he would qualify for financial aid.) And I bet the coaching change provided the impetus to make the switch. Nothing in the article about NIL or more eyes being on him.

Hugely disappointing in any event for someone who will wish he had a Cornell degree five years from now.

I didn't see anything in that article suggesting that he was unhappy with how things were going at Cornell.

"Though he says he was starting to find his footing at the end of Cornell's season, he felt that he wasn't playing to his full potential, and it wasn't just from a numbers standpoint."

"'I just kind of lost focus of just going out there and doing all the little things right,' Robertson said. 'It was definitely a little frustrating, but not because the production wasn't there, just because I don't think I really wanted to play the way I played through most of the season.'"

Seems clear to me he wasn't happy with how things were going at Cornell? Sounds like he was incredibly frustrated last season.

Last year was bad all around (until it wasn't). There's a difference between "I had a down year and it sucked that I didn't play well" and "I was unhappy being there."

I'm talking just about hockey (not school/social life), to be clear. I know this is circular logic, but I believe that if he were totally happy with how things were going hockey-wise, he wouldn't have transferred. It wasn't a good year for him, and I suspect he wasn't happy with how he was developing. It sounds like he was very frustrated the whole season, maybe that changed at the very end, but his mind may have already been made up by that point.

I'm imagining Jim Hyla, who has degrees from both schools, sitting by a fire while the snow flies in Syracuse, chuckling to himself.

Quote from: BearLover on November 28, 2025, 02:49:45 PM

Quote from: Dafatone on November 28, 2025, 01:41:30 PM

Quote from: BearLover on November 28, 2025, 01:27:01 AM

Quote from: Dafatone on November 28, 2025, 12:28:04 AM

Quote from: BearLover on November 27, 2025, 10:29:14 PM

Quote from: BearLoverAs to why he left, I don't know, probably a combination of multiple factors including financial reasons, the coaching change, and style of play.

Sounds about right. He was unhappy with how things were going at Cornell and thought he would progress better at Michigan. He also cites cost. (Which is weird, because if tuition were too high as the article states then you'd think he would qualify for financial aid.) And I bet the coaching change provided the impetus to make the switch. Nothing in the article about NIL or more eyes being on him.

Hugely disappointing in any event for someone who will wish he had a Cornell degree five years from now.

I didn't see anything in that article suggesting that he was unhappy with how things were going at Cornell.

"Though he says he was starting to find his footing at the end of Cornell's season, he felt that he wasn't playing to his full potential, and it wasn't just from a numbers standpoint."

"'I just kind of lost focus of just going out there and doing all the little things right,' Robertson said. 'It was definitely a little frustrating, but not because the production wasn't there, just because I don't think I really wanted to play the way I played through most of the season.'"

Seems clear to me he wasn't happy with how things were going at Cornell? Sounds like he was incredibly frustrated last season.

Last year was bad all around (until it wasn't). There's a difference between "I had a down year and it sucked that I didn't play well" and "I was unhappy being there."

I'm talking just about hockey (not school/social life), to be clear. I know this is circular logic, but I believe that if he were totally happy with how things were going hockey-wise, he wouldn't have transferred. It wasn't a good year for him, and I suspect he wasn't happy with how he was developing. It sounds like he was very frustrated the whole season, maybe that changed at the very end, but his mind may have already been made up by that point.

I guess something just has to be true if you believe it to be.

[I thought you had called for an end to this.] 

Quote from: Al DeFlorio on November 28, 2025, 04:43:11 PM

Quote from: BearLover on November 28, 2025, 02:49:45 PM

Quote from: Dafatone on November 28, 2025, 01:41:30 PM

Quote from: BearLover on November 28, 2025, 01:27:01 AM

Quote from: Dafatone on November 28, 2025, 12:28:04 AM

Quote from: BearLover on November 27, 2025, 10:29:14 PM

Quote from: BearLoverAs to why he left, I don't know, probably a combination of multiple factors including financial reasons, the coaching change, and style of play.

Sounds about right. He was unhappy with how things were going at Cornell and thought he would progress better at Michigan. He also cites cost. (Which is weird, because if tuition were too high as the article states then you'd think he would qualify for financial aid.) And I bet the coaching change provided the impetus to make the switch. Nothing in the article about NIL or more eyes being on him.

Hugely disappointing in any event for someone who will wish he had a Cornell degree five years from now.

I didn't see anything in that article suggesting that he was unhappy with how things were going at Cornell.

"Though he says he was starting to find his footing at the end of Cornell's season, he felt that he wasn't playing to his full potential, and it wasn't just from a numbers standpoint."

"'I just kind of lost focus of just going out there and doing all the little things right,' Robertson said. 'It was definitely a little frustrating, but not because the production wasn't there, just because I don't think I really wanted to play the way I played through most of the season.'"

Seems clear to me he wasn't happy with how things were going at Cornell? Sounds like he was incredibly frustrated last season.

Last year was bad all around (until it wasn't). There's a difference between "I had a down year and it sucked that I didn't play well" and "I was unhappy being there."

I'm talking just about hockey (not school/social life), to be clear. I know this is circular logic, but I believe that if he were totally happy with how things were going hockey-wise, he wouldn't have transferred. It wasn't a good year for him, and I suspect he wasn't happy with how he was developing. It sounds like he was very frustrated the whole season, maybe that changed at the very end, but his mind may have already been made up by that point.

I guess something just has to be true if you believe it to be.

[I thought you had called for an end to this.] 

No, absolutely not. That's why I wrote "I believe X" and also acknowledged a potential fault in my own logic, rather than stating X as a fact. If I think something is truth, I'll state that very clearly, no need for you to put words in my mouth.

[I called for an end to my argument with scoop85 because it felt like it was getting too heated after he said I have no idea what I'm talking about.]

I hope everyone had a warm and happy holiday yesterday.

Quote from: TimV on November 28, 2025, 03:16:19 PMI'm imagining Jim Hyla, who has degrees from both schools, sitting by a fire while the snow flies in Syracuse, chuckling to himself.

Totally correct, except no fire. As I was catching up on eLynah posts, I was thinking about my time and education at both schools. Both were my first choice at the time and in no way would I have chosen CU instead of UM for my rheumatology. CU just wasn't as good for me.

School is individual, not collective, even if the colleges want you to believe that. Sure maybe like BearLover showed, it's easy to get into finance, if that's what you like. But UM showed me that rheumatology can be fun and productive. That's why I'm still doing it going on 50 years.

It's really the same as CU hockey. They showed that it can be fun and productive to watch them, through good and bad. And that's why I'm still watching them after 60+ years.

You get out of something what you put into it, not what they say they have. That's why BearLover's stats don't mean anything, because we don't know what Robertson wants from life.

He says "Hugely disappointing in any event for someone who will wish he had a Cornell degree five years from now."

How the hell can we know that. We don't know what he wants out of life. I know if I went to a training program where those who were training me had the feeling that they were the best and everyone should realize it, I'd not come out the satisfied person that I sort of feel I am.

So CU is not the best place on earth for everyone. It was great for me at the time, and I have no idea if I would feel that way today if I was there. Let the students make their own decisions and not criticize them or CU hockey unless we have some sort of inside knowledge. All of them know a lot more than we do.

Endless speculation about things that we have no knowledge about makes this Forum no different than any other social media site. I used to come here for good honest discussion from people who loved watching CU hockey.

I loved hearing about critiques of plays or games, ideas about what we have to do to get to the NCAAs, or having a board near the end of the year where you can analyze who has to beat who for us to attain an end of season position.

Enough said. Now I'll go back to catching up on all that I've missed by not being on eLynah for 2 weeks.

Thanks to those that post about what they've seen from the games. I appreciate it.

Now that we've locked the NCAAs and met my bar for a good year, I will look back on the most shocking moment of last offseason, Ben Robertson ditching his friends, teammates, coaches, and school in favor of Michigan.

1. Robertson's departure was mitigated by the arrival of Veilleux, another offensively minded left-handed defenseman who is frankly just a better player.

2. Moreover, viewing the portal gains/losses in totality, I might argue that 3 years of Fisher + 3 years of Ashton is worth more than 2 years of Robertson. That is to say, we quite possibly came out ahead.

3. However, I believe this is the wrong framing. The goal with the portal is not merely to improve your team; it's to improve as much as, or more than, the teams we want to beat in late March and April. From that perspective, we did well by "Cornell standards" but not by "making the Frozen Four standards." Particularly since Robertson went to one of those teams we want to beat.

4. If Robertson's goal was to get an NHL contract, I think he has so far failed in his mission. With the caveat that I've watched 0 of his games this year, putting up 0 goals and 18 assists in 36 games for a stacked team which he leads in ice time and quarterbacks the first PP unit is...really not impressive. It's frankly worse than his freshman year at Cornell. Of course, the fact he's on the ice so much is itself a positive indicator, but half a point per game with 0 goals? Really? Unless (and probably even if) he's been playing otherworldly defense, no NHL career for him.

5. Cornell being good this year takes a lot of the sting off.

6. Still, all of this is beside the point: we'd be a better team this year if Robertson were still on it. Imagine the highly realistic world where Robertson and Bancroft return. We'd probably be looking at a 1-seed right now.

7. Overall, if I could press a button to undo everything that has happened since Cornell's 2024-25 season ended, I would not press it. I'm too content with where things stand. At this point, the most troubling part of all of this is...

8. I do wonder whether Robertson's departure set some kind of precedent or is some kind of harbinger of what's to come. Are we going to see our best players transfer out on a semi-regular basis? Or is this a one-off event? That's the key question at this point. It's a problem that has afflicted many mid-majors. Are we one of them?

Quote from: BearLover on March 17, 2026, 12:37:24 AMNow that we've locked the NCAAs and met my bar for a good year, I will look back on the most shocking moment of last offseason, Ben Robertson ditching his friends, teammates, coaches, and school in favor of Michigan.

1. Robertson's departure was mitigated by the arrival of Veilleux, another offensively minded left-handed defenseman who is frankly just a better player.

2. Moreover, viewing the portal gains/losses in totality, I might argue that 3 years of Fisher + 3 years of Ashton is worth more than 2 years of Robertson. That is to say, we quite possibly came out ahead.

3. However, I believe this is the wrong framing. The goal with the portal is not merely to improve your team; it's to improve as much as, or more than, the teams we want to beat in late March and April. From that perspective, we did well by "Cornell standards" but not by "making the Frozen Four standards." Particularly since Robertson went to one of those teams we want to beat.

4. If Robertson's goal was to get an NHL contract, I think he has so far failed in his mission. With the caveat that I've watched 0 of his games this year, putting up 0 goals and 18 assists in 36 games for a stacked team which he leads in ice time and quarterbacks the first PP unit is...really not impressive. It's frankly worse than his freshman year at Cornell. Of course, the fact he's on the ice so much is itself a positive indicator, but half a point per game with 0 goals? Really? Unless (and probably even if) he's been playing otherworldly defense, no NHL career for him.

5. Cornell being good this year takes a lot of the sting off.

6. Still, all of this is beside the point: we'd be a better team this year if Robertson were still on it. Imagine the highly realistic world where Robertson and Bancroft return. We'd probably be looking at a 1-seed right now.

7. Overall, if I could press a button to undo everything that has happened since Cornell's 2024-25 season ended, I would not press it. I'm too content with where things stand. At this point, the most troubling part of all of this is...

8. I do wonder whether Robertson's departure set some kind of precedent or is some kind of harbinger of what's to come. Are we going to see our best players transfer out on a semi-regular basis? Or is this a one-off event? That's the key question at this point. It's a problem that has afflicted many mid-majors. Are we one of them?

Thought a lot about this.  If he and Bancroft stay, I would think not every newcomer arrives. Maybe no XV? Or Fisher? Or Ryan?  Highly speculative.  Would love to know why Ben left.  Dalton pretty clearly made a mistake. 

Quote from: arugula on March 17, 2026, 07:21:43 AM

Quote from: BearLover on March 17, 2026, 12:37:24 AMNow that we've locked the NCAAs and met my bar for a good year, I will look back on the most shocking moment of last offseason, Ben Robertson ditching his friends, teammates, coaches, and school in favor of Michigan.

1. Robertson's departure was mitigated by the arrival of Veilleux, another offensively minded left-handed defenseman who is frankly just a better player.

2. Moreover, viewing the portal gains/losses in totality, I might argue that 3 years of Fisher + 3 years of Ashton is worth more than 2 years of Robertson. That is to say, we quite possibly came out ahead.

3. However, I believe this is the wrong framing. The goal with the portal is not merely to improve your team; it's to improve as much as, or more than, the teams we want to beat in late March and April. From that perspective, we did well by "Cornell standards" but not by "making the Frozen Four standards." Particularly since Robertson went to one of those teams we want to beat.

4. If Robertson's goal was to get an NHL contract, I think he has so far failed in his mission. With the caveat that I've watched 0 of his games this year, putting up 0 goals and 18 assists in 36 games for a stacked team which he leads in ice time and quarterbacks the first PP unit is...really not impressive. It's frankly worse than his freshman year at Cornell. Of course, the fact he's on the ice so much is itself a positive indicator, but half a point per game with 0 goals? Really? Unless (and probably even if) he's been playing otherworldly defense, no NHL career for him.

5. Cornell being good this year takes a lot of the sting off.

6. Still, all of this is beside the point: we'd be a better team this year if Robertson were still on it. Imagine the highly realistic world where Robertson and Bancroft return. We'd probably be looking at a 1-seed right now.

7. Overall, if I could press a button to undo everything that has happened since Cornell's 2024-25 season ended, I would not press it. I'm too content with where things stand. At this point, the most troubling part of all of this is...

8. I do wonder whether Robertson's departure set some kind of precedent or is some kind of harbinger of what's to come. Are we going to see our best players transfer out on a semi-regular basis? Or is this a one-off event? That's the key question at this point. It's a problem that has afflicted many mid-majors. Are we one of them?

Thought a lot about this.  If he and Bancroft stay, I would think not every newcomer arrives. Maybe no XV? Or Fisher? Or Ryan?  Highly speculative.  Would love to know why Ben left.  Dalton pretty clearly made a mistake. 

Eh, Dalton had an NHL deal.

You don't turn down an NHL deal when you're 25 and undrafted and that's your entire dream in life.

In the rearview mirror we can say eh, probably shoulda stayed, racked up points, but even so.

Quote from: stereax on March 17, 2026, 08:28:34 AM

Quote from: arugula on March 17, 2026, 07:21:43 AM

Quote from: BearLover on March 17, 2026, 12:37:24 AMNow that we've locked the NCAAs and met my bar for a good year, I will look back on the most shocking moment of last offseason, Ben Robertson ditching his friends, teammates, coaches, and school in favor of Michigan.

1. Robertson's departure was mitigated by the arrival of Veilleux, another offensively minded left-handed defenseman who is frankly just a better player.

2. Moreover, viewing the portal gains/losses in totality, I might argue that 3 years of Fisher + 3 years of Ashton is worth more than 2 years of Robertson. That is to say, we quite possibly came out ahead.

3. However, I believe this is the wrong framing. The goal with the portal is not merely to improve your team; it's to improve as much as, or more than, the teams we want to beat in late March and April. From that perspective, we did well by "Cornell standards" but not by "making the Frozen Four standards." Particularly since Robertson went to one of those teams we want to beat.

4. If Robertson's goal was to get an NHL contract, I think he has so far failed in his mission. With the caveat that I've watched 0 of his games this year, putting up 0 goals and 18 assists in 36 games for a stacked team which he leads in ice time and quarterbacks the first PP unit is...really not impressive. It's frankly worse than his freshman year at Cornell. Of course, the fact he's on the ice so much is itself a positive indicator, but half a point per game with 0 goals? Really? Unless (and probably even if) he's been playing otherworldly defense, no NHL career for him.

5. Cornell being good this year takes a lot of the sting off.

6. Still, all of this is beside the point: we'd be a better team this year if Robertson were still on it. Imagine the highly realistic world where Robertson and Bancroft return. We'd probably be looking at a 1-seed right now.

7. Overall, if I could press a button to undo everything that has happened since Cornell's 2024-25 season ended, I would not press it. I'm too content with where things stand. At this point, the most troubling part of all of this is...

8. I do wonder whether Robertson's departure set some kind of precedent or is some kind of harbinger of what's to come. Are we going to see our best players transfer out on a semi-regular basis? Or is this a one-off event? That's the key question at this point. It's a problem that has afflicted many mid-majors. Are we one of them?

Thought a lot about this.  If he and Bancroft stay, I would think not every newcomer arrives. Maybe no XV? Or Fisher? Or Ryan?  Highly speculative.  Would love to know why Ben left.  Dalton pretty clearly made a mistake. 

Eh, Dalton had an NHL deal.

You don't turn down an NHL deal when you're 25 and undrafted and that's your entire dream in life.

In the rearview mirror we can say eh, probably shoulda stayed, racked up points, but even so.

Presumably a two way deal so still making ahl money. Not the glorified semi pros of the echl but not great.  Is he 25?  Oy.

Quote from: arugula on March 17, 2026, 07:21:43 AM

Quote from: BearLover on March 17, 2026, 12:37:24 AMNow that we've locked the NCAAs and met my bar for a good year, I will look back on the most shocking moment of last offseason, Ben Robertson ditching his friends, teammates, coaches, and school in favor of Michigan.

1. Robertson's departure was mitigated by the arrival of Veilleux, another offensively minded left-handed defenseman who is frankly just a better player.

2. Moreover, viewing the portal gains/losses in totality, I might argue that 3 years of Fisher + 3 years of Ashton is worth more than 2 years of Robertson. That is to say, we quite possibly came out ahead.

3. However, I believe this is the wrong framing. The goal with the portal is not merely to improve your team; it's to improve as much as, or more than, the teams we want to beat in late March and April. From that perspective, we did well by "Cornell standards" but not by "making the Frozen Four standards." Particularly since Robertson went to one of those teams we want to beat.

4. If Robertson's goal was to get an NHL contract, I think he has so far failed in his mission. With the caveat that I've watched 0 of his games this year, putting up 0 goals and 18 assists in 36 games for a stacked team which he leads in ice time and quarterbacks the first PP unit is...really not impressive. It's frankly worse than his freshman year at Cornell. Of course, the fact he's on the ice so much is itself a positive indicator, but half a point per game with 0 goals? Really? Unless (and probably even if) he's been playing otherworldly defense, no NHL career for him.

5. Cornell being good this year takes a lot of the sting off.

6. Still, all of this is beside the point: we'd be a better team this year if Robertson were still on it. Imagine the highly realistic world where Robertson and Bancroft return. We'd probably be looking at a 1-seed right now.

7. Overall, if I could press a button to undo everything that has happened since Cornell's 2024-25 season ended, I would not press it. I'm too content with where things stand. At this point, the most troubling part of all of this is...

8. I do wonder whether Robertson's departure set some kind of precedent or is some kind of harbinger of what's to come. Are we going to see our best players transfer out on a semi-regular basis? Or is this a one-off event? That's the key question at this point. It's a problem that has afflicted many mid-majors. Are we one of them?

Thought a lot about this.  If he and Bancroft stay, I would think not every newcomer arrives. Maybe no XV? Or Fisher? Or Ryan?  Highly speculative.  Would love to know why Ben left.  Dalton pretty clearly made a mistake. 

XV was 100% coming regardless.
Probably no Ashton if Robertson stays, as both are left handed defensemen.
Maybe no Ryan if Bancroft stays. Not sure though.

If those were indeed the outcomes, then can't say we're much worse off.

Quote from: arugula on March 17, 2026, 09:06:17 AM

Quote from: stereax on March 17, 2026, 08:28:34 AM

Quote from: arugula on March 17, 2026, 07:21:43 AM

Quote from: BearLover on March 17, 2026, 12:37:24 AMNow that we've locked the NCAAs and met my bar for a good year, I will look back on the most shocking moment of last offseason, Ben Robertson ditching his friends, teammates, coaches, and school in favor of Michigan.

1. Robertson's departure was mitigated by the arrival of Veilleux, another offensively minded left-handed defenseman who is frankly just a better player.

2. Moreover, viewing the portal gains/losses in totality, I might argue that 3 years of Fisher + 3 years of Ashton is worth more than 2 years of Robertson. That is to say, we quite possibly came out ahead.

3. However, I believe this is the wrong framing. The goal with the portal is not merely to improve your team; it's to improve as much as, or more than, the teams we want to beat in late March and April. From that perspective, we did well by "Cornell standards" but not by "making the Frozen Four standards." Particularly since Robertson went to one of those teams we want to beat.

4. If Robertson's goal was to get an NHL contract, I think he has so far failed in his mission. With the caveat that I've watched 0 of his games this year, putting up 0 goals and 18 assists in 36 games for a stacked team which he leads in ice time and quarterbacks the first PP unit is...really not impressive. It's frankly worse than his freshman year at Cornell. Of course, the fact he's on the ice so much is itself a positive indicator, but half a point per game with 0 goals? Really? Unless (and probably even if) he's been playing otherworldly defense, no NHL career for him.

5. Cornell being good this year takes a lot of the sting off.

6. Still, all of this is beside the point: we'd be a better team this year if Robertson were still on it. Imagine the highly realistic world where Robertson and Bancroft return. We'd probably be looking at a 1-seed right now.

7. Overall, if I could press a button to undo everything that has happened since Cornell's 2024-25 season ended, I would not press it. I'm too content with where things stand. At this point, the most troubling part of all of this is...

8. I do wonder whether Robertson's departure set some kind of precedent or is some kind of harbinger of what's to come. Are we going to see our best players transfer out on a semi-regular basis? Or is this a one-off event? That's the key question at this point. It's a problem that has afflicted many mid-majors. Are we one of them?

Thought a lot about this.  If he and Bancroft stay, I would think not every newcomer arrives. Maybe no XV? Or Fisher? Or Ryan?  Highly speculative.  Would love to know why Ben left.  Dalton pretty clearly made a mistake. 

Eh, Dalton had an NHL deal.

You don't turn down an NHL deal when you're 25 and undrafted and that's your entire dream in life.

In the rearview mirror we can say eh, probably shoulda stayed, racked up points, but even so.

Presumably a two way deal so still making ahl money. Not the glorified semi pros of the echl but not great.  Is he 25?  Oy.

Yeah, he's "only" making like 200k this year in the A (SB + minors salary). Interesting in that he was traded after NHL TDL, so ineligible to play in the NHL, but has a contract bonus if he played 5 games in the NHL.

I suspect if you told Bancroft he was going to spend the entire season in the AHL, he would have returned for his senior year. Given he was operating under greater uncertainty at the time, he might have thought he'd have a chance to crack the NHL. From that perspective, it wasn't a crazy decision. But with the benefit of hindsight, it was the wrong decision.

Worth noting that we have zero clue what is actually going on with any of these players.

Maybe [player] found upstate NY to be too bleak and grey and had to get out for mental health reasons. Maybe there was a bad breakup or a fight with a friend. Maybe [player] wanted to wind up closer to (or further from) family. Maybe they just really hate school.

Speculating about whether a player's decision was "right" is difficult at best.

These are young guys. They can only play hockey for so long so better to go for it early and come back for the degree later.

For any of you saying the AHL or ECHL are 'semi-pro' hockey and not 'worth it' you simply do not know how good you have to be to even sit on the bench in these leagues. Ask anyone who has played any competitive hockey, they will tell you. Obviously, the NHL is the dream of dreams, but hockey players want to play, and getting paid to do so is a rare thing.

Quote from: The Rancor on March 17, 2026, 10:20:29 AMObviously, the NHL is the dream of dreams, but hockey players want to play, and getting paid to do so is a rare thing.

Cue NIL discussion...

Always a bit of yada-yada, space-filler posts and navel gazing this time of year as the season goes into playoff mode and we all want to say something just to be part of the discussion.

I felt bad that Ben Robertson transferred to Michigan but maybe he was thinking about what (he believed) is best for him and his future. And, wow, did Xavier Veilleux step up the Cornell defensive cadre.

I used to think it was silly for someone to go pro early because "why would anyone give up an Ivy education." But you can always come back and finish the degree. And it is their life.

I referred to ECHL as "glorified semi-pro".  Not meant as a shot at the skill level.  Those guys are great great players.  Look at some of those rosters.  Just meant that the pay is bad and the conditions worse.  Hence the player strike this year.  AHL is head and shoulders better.  Plus, even if the talent level were the same (it isn't) the conditions would make the AHL teams better. 

Quote from: billhoward on March 17, 2026, 11:58:08 AMAlways a bit of yada-yada, space-filler posts and navel gazing this time of year as the season goes into playoff mode and we all want to say something just to be part of the discussion.

I felt bad that Ben Robertson transferred to Michigan but maybe he was thinking about what (he believed) is best for him and his future. And, wow, did Xavier Veilleux step up the Cornell defensive cadre.

I used to think it was silly for someone to go pro early because "why would anyone give up an Ivy education." But you can always come back and finish the degree. And it is their life.

Yes.  Plus in Robertson's case, assuming he cares about school, he went to a great one.

Quote from: BearLover on March 17, 2026, 09:25:37 AM

Quote from: arugula on March 17, 2026, 07:21:43 AM

Quote from: BearLover on March 17, 2026, 12:37:24 AMNow that we've locked the NCAAs and met my bar for a good year, I will look back on the most shocking moment of last offseason, Ben Robertson ditching his friends, teammates, coaches, and school in favor of Michigan.

1. Robertson's departure was mitigated by the arrival of Veilleux, another offensively minded left-handed defenseman who is frankly just a better player.

2. Moreover, viewing the portal gains/losses in totality, I might argue that 3 years of Fisher + 3 years of Ashton is worth more than 2 years of Robertson. That is to say, we quite possibly came out ahead.

3. However, I believe this is the wrong framing. The goal with the portal is not merely to improve your team; it's to improve as much as, or more than, the teams we want to beat in late March and April. From that perspective, we did well by "Cornell standards" but not by "making the Frozen Four standards." Particularly since Robertson went to one of those teams we want to beat.

4. If Robertson's goal was to get an NHL contract, I think he has so far failed in his mission. With the caveat that I've watched 0 of his games this year, putting up 0 goals and 18 assists in 36 games for a stacked team which he leads in ice time and quarterbacks the first PP unit is...really not impressive. It's frankly worse than his freshman year at Cornell. Of course, the fact he's on the ice so much is itself a positive indicator, but half a point per game with 0 goals? Really? Unless (and probably even if) he's been playing otherworldly defense, no NHL career for him.

5. Cornell being good this year takes a lot of the sting off.

6. Still, all of this is beside the point: we'd be a better team this year if Robertson were still on it. Imagine the highly realistic world where Robertson and Bancroft return. We'd probably be looking at a 1-seed right now.

7. Overall, if I could press a button to undo everything that has happened since Cornell's 2024-25 season ended, I would not press it. I'm too content with where things stand. At this point, the most troubling part of all of this is...

8. I do wonder whether Robertson's departure set some kind of precedent or is some kind of harbinger of what's to come. Are we going to see our best players transfer out on a semi-regular basis? Or is this a one-off event? That's the key question at this point. It's a problem that has afflicted many mid-majors. Are we one of them?

Thought a lot about this.  If he and Bancroft stay, I would think not every newcomer arrives. Maybe no XV? Or Fisher? Or Ryan?  Highly speculative.  Would love to know why Ben left.  Dalton pretty clearly made a mistake. 

XV was 100% coming regardless.
Probably no Ashton if Robertson stays, as both are left handed defensemen.
Maybe no Ryan if Bancroft stays. Not sure though.

If those were indeed the outcomes, then can't say we're much worse off.

The "trades" worked out

Quote from: The Rancor on March 17, 2026, 10:20:29 AMFor any of you saying the AHL or ECHL are 'semi-pro' hockey and not 'worth it' you simply do not know how good you have to be to even sit on the bench in these leagues. Ask anyone who has played any competitive hockey, they will tell you. Obviously, the NHL is the dream of dreams, but hockey players want to play, and getting paid to do so is a rare thing.

At this point, college hockey has risen to just about AHL level. The ECHL was never on par with college hockey as a whole. I've worked in the minors at that level. And most college players earn more money than ECHL players, if you factor the scholarship.  A lot earn more than AHL players at this point.

Quote from: adamw on March 17, 2026, 12:25:34 PM

Quote from: The Rancor on March 17, 2026, 10:20:29 AMFor any of you saying the AHL or ECHL are 'semi-pro' hockey and not 'worth it' you simply do not know how good you have to be to even sit on the bench in these leagues. Ask anyone who has played any competitive hockey, they will tell you. Obviously, the NHL is the dream of dreams, but hockey players want to play, and getting paid to do so is a rare thing.

At this point, college hockey has risen to just about AHL level. The ECHL was never on par with college hockey as a whole. I've worked in the minors at that level. And most college players earn more money than ECHL players, if you factor the scholarship.  A lot earn more than AHL players at this point.

I have to disagree on play level. The AHL, and many ECHL teams, would be All Star NCAA teams, or Junior hockey teams. Level of play is faster, and the hits are harder, and the fighting... but that is another issue. You're one of the most knowledgeable guys on this board, so you know what you're talking about, but it feels like an exaggeration AHL=NCAA D1. If so, why pull guys out of college just to have them develop in the minors? They'd all stay 4 years at no expense to the pro team, if that's the case.
On getting paid, that is definitely true for a select number of students, and yeah, the scholarship is not insignificant, as anyone here knows. What percentage of players, overall are getting direct NIL? 50% or more?

Quote from: The Rancor on March 17, 2026, 01:20:35 PM

Quote from: adamw on March 17, 2026, 12:25:34 PM

Quote from: The Rancor on March 17, 2026, 10:20:29 AMFor any of you saying the AHL or ECHL are 'semi-pro' hockey and not 'worth it' you simply do not know how good you have to be to even sit on the bench in these leagues. Ask anyone who has played any competitive hockey, they will tell you. Obviously, the NHL is the dream of dreams, but hockey players want to play, and getting paid to do so is a rare thing.

At this point, college hockey has risen to just about AHL level. The ECHL was never on par with college hockey as a whole. I've worked in the minors at that level. And most college players earn more money than ECHL players, if you factor the scholarship.  A lot earn more than AHL players at this point.

I have to disagree on play level. The AHL, and many ECHL teams, would be All Star NCAA teams, or Junior hockey teams. Level of play is faster, and the hits are harder, and the fighting... but that is another issue. You're one of the most knowledgeable guys on this board, so you know what you're talking about, but it feels like an exaggeration AHL=NCAA D1. If so, why pull guys out of college just to have them develop in the minors? They'd all stay 4 years at no expense to the pro team, if that's the case.
On getting paid, that is definitely true for a select number of students, and yeah, the scholarship is not insignificant, as anyone here knows. What percentage of players, overall are getting direct NIL? 50% or more?

We can debate AHL - but there is no way ECHL is remotely close to college. If those players were NCAA all-stars, they are absolutely not in the ECHL. And that's been true for a long time - but especially now. Take a look at who the players are on those rosters. They were never close to being college hockey all-stars. NCAA All-America teams are going right to the NHL, or AHL.  They're not coming close to the ECHL.

Why pull players out to go pro to AHL?  Age old argument.

1. NHL teams feel it's better to have the players in their control.
2. NHL teams have bias against NCAA because of fewer games played (not so much the case anymore, as evidenced by NHL teams now sending their top MJ players to the NCAA instead of back to MJ)
3. It's driven by the player, who just feels like they can't wait to be a pro - perhaps with some misguided notion they will make the NHL Team. Can't tell you how many players over the years I've heard from that regretted this decision.

In other words, the reason they go is not usually because it's actually better.

Note that there are some cases, of course, where it's "time to go" and it is right. But just because it happens, does not automatically mean it's right.

Note also - I've always felt this way - but even moreso the case now, where the level of NCAA hockey, with all the first rounders and Major Junior players, has certainly gotten to the point of being on par with the AHL.

Quote from: adamw on March 17, 2026, 01:25:24 PM

Quote from: The Rancor on March 17, 2026, 01:20:35 PM

Quote from: adamw on March 17, 2026, 12:25:34 PM

Quote from: The Rancor on March 17, 2026, 10:20:29 AMFor any of you saying the AHL or ECHL are 'semi-pro' hockey and not 'worth it' you simply do not know how good you have to be to even sit on the bench in these leagues. Ask anyone who has played any competitive hockey, they will tell you. Obviously, the NHL is the dream of dreams, but hockey players want to play, and getting paid to do so is a rare thing.

3. It's driven by the player, who just feels like they can't wait to be a pro - perhaps with some misguided notion they will make the NHL Team. Can't tell you how many players over the years I've heard from that regretted this decision.

In other words, the reason they go is not usually because it's actually better.

Note that there are some cases, of course, where it's "time to go" and it is right. But just because it happens, does not automatically mean it's right.

back to my original comment, and point, is that these guys want to be Pro Hockey Players, no matter what. And, it isn't really (always) about pay- although that signing bonus probably feels pretty sweet.

Guys who are good enough to have consistently moved up the ladder Novice --> Atom --> Peewee --> Midget --> Juniors --> College see college as another rung.  As Cornell fans we are perpetually focused on what for good players is just another transitional step in their development. It would be weird from their POV if they plateaued too long here.  They've spent their lives playing well enough to get promoted up.

"4 years in college" is an academic perspective, to gain a credential.  Serious athletes have an entirely different use for college; the credential is irrelevant.  The Bruins don't turn you away from camp if you are short credits.  For that matter, while some colleges once had an educational mission they have now all been captured by rich assholes as tax rackets.  They exploit players to gather revenue.  Pro owners exploit colleges to avoid paying to develop and maintain an expensive minor league system like baseball has.  The media exploits everybody to jock sniff their way to profits.  The advertisers make it all go round by dishing out their brainwashing to we the Great Unwashed.  Just another totally not toxic way to organize a culture, guaranteed to foster feelings of deep fulfillment and spiritual satisfaction.

Whether or not it was a healthy idea to use college as an athletic development mechanism, we made that deci$ion many decades ago.  This is the inevitable consequence.

Quote from: The Rancor on March 17, 2026, 01:20:35 PMWhat percentage of players, overall are getting direct NIL? 50% or more?

Any NIL, including a few dollars here and there from eg. jersey sales? Maybe 50%. Substantial NIL that rivals eg. an ECHL salary? Probably an extremely small percentage, less than 1%.

Quote from: BearLover on March 17, 2026, 02:11:06 PM

Quote from: The Rancor on March 17, 2026, 01:20:35 PMWhat percentage of players, overall are getting direct NIL? 50% or more?

Any NIL, including a few dollars here and there from eg. jersey sales? Maybe 50%. Substantial NIL that rivals eg. an ECHL salary? Probably an extremely small percentage, less than 1%.

You overestimate the ECHL's wages... which, when factored over the year, are pretty damn low. A fair amount of those guys take second jobs over the summer, etc.

We've heard of guys getting 50k and transferring schools because of it. Add scholarship, room, board, food. That's more than an ECHL salary, I can almost guarantee it.

So much so, that there are guys who are saying "if my choices are ECHL (with little prospect of moving up the ranks) or workforce, I'm going to the workforce". It's just not worth it for some to spend 3-5 years in the ECHL, making relatively little money with relatively little forward momentum, and then end up in the workforce anyway, just with a few extra surgeries.

Quote from: stereax on March 17, 2026, 02:28:32 PM

Quote from: BearLover on March 17, 2026, 02:11:06 PM

Quote from: The Rancor on March 17, 2026, 01:20:35 PMWhat percentage of players, overall are getting direct NIL? 50% or more?

Any NIL, including a few dollars here and there from eg. jersey sales? Maybe 50%. Substantial NIL that rivals eg. an ECHL salary? Probably an extremely small percentage, less than 1%.

You overestimate the ECHL's wages... which, when factored over the year, are pretty damn low. A fair amount of those guys take second jobs over the summer, etc.

We've heard of guys getting 50k and transferring schools because of it. Add scholarship, room, board, food. That's more than an ECHL salary, I can almost guarantee it.

So much so, that there are guys who are saying "if my choices are ECHL (with little prospect of moving up the ranks) or workforce, I'm going to the workforce".

I was assuming the average ECHL wage is around 50K, which would equate to what the very best players in the country are rumored to be getting offered to transfer.

Quote from: BearLover on March 17, 2026, 02:30:59 PM

Quote from: stereax on March 17, 2026, 02:28:32 PM

Quote from: BearLover on March 17, 2026, 02:11:06 PM

Quote from: The Rancor on March 17, 2026, 01:20:35 PMWhat percentage of players, overall are getting direct NIL? 50% or more?

Any NIL, including a few dollars here and there from eg. jersey sales? Maybe 50%. Substantial NIL that rivals eg. an ECHL salary? Probably an extremely small percentage, less than 1%.

You overestimate the ECHL's wages... which, when factored over the year, are pretty damn low. A fair amount of those guys take second jobs over the summer, etc.

We've heard of guys getting 50k and transferring schools because of it. Add scholarship, room, board, food. That's more than an ECHL salary, I can almost guarantee it.

So much so, that there are guys who are saying "if my choices are ECHL (with little prospect of moving up the ranks) or workforce, I'm going to the workforce".

I was assuming the average ECHL wage is around 50K, which would equate to what the very best players in the country are rumored to be getting offered to transfer.

Overview of ECHL Salaries
How much do ECHL players make? The salary of ECHL players varies widely based on factors like experience, position, and team. According to the ECHL minimum salary for the 2021-2022 season, a rookie can expect to earn $555 per week. Veterans with three or more years of professional experience can earn up to $925 per week.

But what about the average ECHL salary? The average ECHL player earns around $600 per week. However, this number can vary widely based on factors like performance, position, and team. Some players may earn much more than the league average, while others may earn less.

The average salary for an ECHL player is around $600 per week, but this can vary based on a number of factors such as the player's experience, skill level, and position on the team. In some cases, players can make over $1,000 per week, while others may make less than $400 per week.

It's also important to note that ECHL players are typically only paid during the regular season, which lasts for about six months. During the off-season, many players will look for other work or play in other leagues to supplement their income.

Another thing to keep in mind is that ECHL players are responsible for their own travel and living expenses, which can add up quickly. While some teams provide housing or help players find affordable options, others do not, leaving players to foot the bill for their own accommodations.

Sourcing from this (https://icehockeycentral.com/what-do-echl-hockey-players-make-discover-the-salaries-of-professional-minor-league-players/), which seems to be generally accurate as far as I've done research and understand it.

550 x 26 weeks = 55 x 10 x 2 x 13 = 1100 x 13 = 14300.

925 x 26 = 925 x 2 x 13 = 1850 x 13 = 24050.

Yeah. You're off...

Without the ECHL and AHL, we wouldn't have had Slapshot.

Bill shoots and scores.  Cutting through the BS.  As to the debate about wages, the ECHL just had a player strike, with the salubrious effect one hopes of increased pay, although I know the strike was as much about the terrible conditions they work under in that league.

Quote from: billhoward on March 17, 2026, 02:44:13 PMWithout the ECHL and AHL, we wouldn't have had Slapshot.

Hundreds of members of my mom's extended Johnstown family is in that movie as extras. 

Quote from: stereax on March 17, 2026, 02:36:27 PM

Quote from: BearLover on March 17, 2026, 02:30:59 PM

Quote from: stereax on March 17, 2026, 02:28:32 PM

Quote from: BearLover on March 17, 2026, 02:11:06 PM

Quote from: The Rancor on March 17, 2026, 01:20:35 PMWhat percentage of players, overall are getting direct NIL? 50% or more?

Any NIL, including a few dollars here and there from eg. jersey sales? Maybe 50%. Substantial NIL that rivals eg. an ECHL salary? Probably an extremely small percentage, less than 1%.

You overestimate the ECHL's wages... which, when factored over the year, are pretty damn low. A fair amount of those guys take second jobs over the summer, etc.

We've heard of guys getting 50k and transferring schools because of it. Add scholarship, room, board, food. That's more than an ECHL salary, I can almost guarantee it.

So much so, that there are guys who are saying "if my choices are ECHL (with little prospect of moving up the ranks) or workforce, I'm going to the workforce".

I was assuming the average ECHL wage is around 50K, which would equate to what the very best players in the country are rumored to be getting offered to transfer.

Overview of ECHL Salaries
How much do ECHL players make? The salary of ECHL players varies widely based on factors like experience, position, and team. According to the ECHL minimum salary for the 2021-2022 season, a rookie can expect to earn $555 per week. Veterans with three or more years of professional experience can earn up to $925 per week.

But what about the average ECHL salary? The average ECHL player earns around $600 per week. However, this number can vary widely based on factors like performance, position, and team. Some players may earn much more than the league average, while others may earn less.

The average salary for an ECHL player is around $600 per week, but this can vary based on a number of factors such as the player's experience, skill level, and position on the team. In some cases, players can make over $1,000 per week, while others may make less than $400 per week.

It's also important to note that ECHL players are typically only paid during the regular season, which lasts for about six months. During the off-season, many players will look for other work or play in other leagues to supplement their income.

Another thing to keep in mind is that ECHL players are responsible for their own travel and living expenses, which can add up quickly. While some teams provide housing or help players find affordable options, others do not, leaving players to foot the bill for their own accommodations.

Sourcing from this (https://icehockeycentral.com/what-do-echl-hockey-players-make-discover-the-salaries-of-professional-minor-league-players/), which seems to be generally accurate as far as I've done research and understand it.

550 x 26 weeks = 55 x 10 x 2 x 13 = 1100 x 13 = 14300.

925 x 26 = 925 x 2 x 13 = 1850 x 13 = 24050.

Yeah. You're off...

Wow, didn't realize it was so low

Quote from: BearLover on March 17, 2026, 04:37:35 PM

Quote from: stereax on March 17, 2026, 02:36:27 PM

Quote from: BearLover on March 17, 2026, 02:30:59 PM

Quote from: stereax on March 17, 2026, 02:28:32 PM

Quote from: BearLover on March 17, 2026, 02:11:06 PM

Quote from: The Rancor on March 17, 2026, 01:20:35 PMWhat percentage of players, overall are getting direct NIL? 50% or more?

Any NIL, including a few dollars here and there from eg. jersey sales? Maybe 50%. Substantial NIL that rivals eg. an ECHL salary? Probably an extremely small percentage, less than 1%.

You overestimate the ECHL's wages... which, when factored over the year, are pretty damn low. A fair amount of those guys take second jobs over the summer, etc.

We've heard of guys getting 50k and transferring schools because of it. Add scholarship, room, board, food. That's more than an ECHL salary, I can almost guarantee it.

So much so, that there are guys who are saying "if my choices are ECHL (with little prospect of moving up the ranks) or workforce, I'm going to the workforce".

I was assuming the average ECHL wage is around 50K, which would equate to what the very best players in the country are rumored to be getting offered to transfer.

Overview of ECHL Salaries
How much do ECHL players make? The salary of ECHL players varies widely based on factors like experience, position, and team. According to the ECHL minimum salary for the 2021-2022 season, a rookie can expect to earn $555 per week. Veterans with three or more years of professional experience can earn up to $925 per week.

But what about the average ECHL salary? The average ECHL player earns around $600 per week. However, this number can vary widely based on factors like performance, position, and team. Some players may earn much more than the league average, while others may earn less.

The average salary for an ECHL player is around $600 per week, but this can vary based on a number of factors such as the player's experience, skill level, and position on the team. In some cases, players can make over $1,000 per week, while others may make less than $400 per week.

It's also important to note that ECHL players are typically only paid during the regular season, which lasts for about six months. During the off-season, many players will look for other work or play in other leagues to supplement their income.

Another thing to keep in mind is that ECHL players are responsible for their own travel and living expenses, which can add up quickly. While some teams provide housing or help players find affordable options, others do not, leaving players to foot the bill for their own accommodations.

Sourcing from this (https://icehockeycentral.com/what-do-echl-hockey-players-make-discover-the-salaries-of-professional-minor-league-players/), which seems to be generally accurate as far as I've done research and understand it.

550 x 26 weeks = 55 x 10 x 2 x 13 = 1100 x 13 = 14300.

925 x 26 = 925 x 2 x 13 = 1850 x 13 = 24050.

Yeah. You're off...

Wow, didn't realize it was so low

Yeaaaaaah.

Like, some of the guys who play ECHL do it because they see an upward path into the A. Some just want to play for a few more years before hanging them up. But it's not really a career like even the AHL is.

So yeah. "Even" 50k is still a fuck ton of money, and add on school costs, meals, dorms, equipment, etcetera. (Plus connections and alumni networks to land you a job after you graduate!)

ECHL players typically get their housing taken care of too. And some meals. So they can survive fine. Of course, NCAA players get housing taken care of as well.

I would venture to say that at most schools in the NCAA, the minimum rev share players are getting is about $20,000. Maybe not most schools - but maybe ... 33% at this point? I'm still gathering data. That's not NIL, it's rev share. Plus their regular scholarship. BearLover will tell me I'm wrong, but oh well. From what I've been able to gather so far (and it's like a constant topic), the average rev share budget of - say - an NCHC team is $500k/year. Probably same for most Hockey East teams - though some have much less (UNH, Vermont...) - B10 schools probably well above $500k. Obviously that will be just about $0 in Atlantic and ECAC.

I was going to post a publicity still from Slapshot because I believe in multiple-media comments, i.e. words and a photo. But such a hassle to attach a photo now versus just dropping an image into a reply.

Not gonna start another flame war but it's curious that a bunch of schools facing severe budget crises and whose hockey programs (and athletic departments more broadly) are heavily in the red are paying kids tons of cash on top of the additional millions in scholarships they're on the hook for under the House settlement. Makes you wonder if we, too, can make very generous donors materialize out of thin air.

[/quote]
Yeaaaaaah.

Like, some of the guys who play ECHL do it because they see an upward path into the A. Some just want to play for a few more years before hanging them up. But it's not really a career like even the AHL is.

So yeah. "Even" 50k is still a fuck ton of money, and add on school costs, meals, dorms, equipment, etcetera. (Plus connections and alumni networks to land you a job after you graduate!)
[/quote]

This is the thing: Players don't really see it this way, not exactly, anyway. They don't care about the money (they DO and deserve to be paid appropriately, and obviously in the NHL where there is huge money at stake) but they play for the love of the game, until, either physically, emotionally or, in some cases, financially, they can't justify it anymore. FWIW it is why so many guys love playing in Europe- good balance of everything- but they just want to PLAY. What happens after hockey, isn't on the top of the concerns for most players once they go Pro.

Quote from: The Rancor on March 18, 2026, 09:31:52 AM

QuoteYeaaaaaah.

Like, some of the guys who play ECHL do it because they see an upward path into the A. Some just want to play for a few more years before hanging them up. But it's not really a career like even the AHL is.

So yeah. "Even" 50k is still a fuck ton of money, and add on school costs, meals, dorms, equipment, etcetera. (Plus connections and alumni networks to land you a job after you graduate!)

This is the thing: Players don't really see it this way, not exactly, anyway. They don't care about the money (they DO and deserve to be paid appropriately, and obviously in the NHL where there is huge money at stake) but they play for the love of the game, until, either physically, emotionally or, in some cases, financially, they can't justify it anymore. FWIW it is why so many guys love playing in Europe- good balance of everything- but they just want to PLAY. What happens after hockey, isn't on the top of the concerns for most players once they go Pro.

For sure, yeah! It's all the love of the game. But again, it's not exactly a career because you're not even getting paid enough to make ends meet sometimes. A good amount of Cornellians underscore that - that ultimately, even if you make the NHL, even if you play for a few years there, what are you gonna do with the rest of your life?

But if you're a junior at, say, Michigan, for example, and your choices are going pure ECHL or one more year of college hockey (with some revshare, NIL, whatever, plus scholarship, plus everything else comped), you're probably doing the last year of college hockey.

Listened to a podcast with Mathieu Caron, goalie for BU who graduated last spring. He said there's basically no NIL at all at BU. (BU also did not opt into revenue sharing.)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YClxduwviHY

While in the past I have enjoyed a weaker ECAC, that's mostly been about not wanting our rivals to win the national title before we do. Going forward it is important that the conference improves, particularly the weaker programs. I hope the new Brown and Yale coaches can at least get their teams to near the middle of the NPI. It is also important that Cornell schedule difficult out of conference games. Quality of competition seems to be good players' biggest reservations about attending/staying at an Ivy versus going to B10/NCHC/HE.

Quote from: BearLover on March 18, 2026, 12:56:06 PMWhile in the past I have enjoyed a weaker ECAC, that's mostly been about not wanting our rivals to win the national title before we do. Going forward it is important that the conference improves, particularly the weaker programs. I hope the new Brown and Yale coaches can at least get their teams to near the middle of the NPI. It is also important that Cornell schedule difficult out of conference games. Quality of competition seems to be good players' biggest reservations about attending/staying at an Ivy versus going to B10/NCHC/HE.

I'm curious who Yale hires given they've had a whole season to consider available options. It's not like Yale is in a bad location and there obviously is a record of success, but I'm dubious about how much support is there for men's hockey

Quote from: BearLover on March 18, 2026, 11:33:09 AMListened to a podcast with Mathieu Caron, goalie for BU who graduated last spring. He said there's basically no NIL at all at BU. (BU also did not opt into revenue sharing.)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YClxduwviHY

There is ZERO chance this is true. Caron can say whatever he wants. Every other school BU competes with has a rev share budget of $500k at least. Boston College's is likely higher. You think BU is going to sit by and lose players to BC?

Quote from: adamw on March 18, 2026, 04:16:59 PM

Quote from: BearLover on March 18, 2026, 11:33:09 AMListened to a podcast with Mathieu Caron, goalie for BU who graduated last spring. He said there's basically no NIL at all at BU. (BU also did not opt into revenue sharing.)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YClxduwviHY

There is ZERO chance this is true. Caron can say whatever he wants. Every other school BU competes with has a rev share budget of $500k at least. Boston College's is likely higher. You think BU is going to sit by and lose players to BC?

Caron was a literal player on the team. Seems like a trustworthy source who would have insight into this matter. He graduated and would have no incentive to lie.

The BC bit seems like specious logic. BU's rev share budget is $0 as they did not opt into the settlement. Their NIL number is completely dependent on donations—-BU cannot force people to donate. Therefore, it doesn't really matter what BU wants. BU is evidently not losing anybody to BC currently, given they get the best talent in the entire country. So I don't see why they would be worried about this. Perhaps rumors of BC's revenue sharing are also exaggerated if they're not poaching players from BU (or almost anywhere, for that matter).   

I'm going to preemptively quit this argument.

well if the NIL Budget is 500K and you split it 10-20 ways and the top few guys get 50K you are not leaving a ton for most of the rest. it could be 10-20K is next to zero to him.

Quote from: upprdeck on March 18, 2026, 06:44:17 PMwell if the NIL Budget is 500K and you split it 10-20 ways and the top few guys get 50K you are not leaving a ton for most of the rest. it could be 10-20K is next to zero to him.

He was talking about the team as a whole

Quote from: BearLover on March 18, 2026, 06:25:34 PMI'm going to preemptively quit this argument.

As I've said before, believe what you want. Nothing about what's going on with rev share is a "rumor." Sorry that no media outlet can provide bank statements as evidence.

Quote from: adamw on March 18, 2026, 08:22:18 PMAs I've said before, believe what you want. Nothing about what's going on with rev share is a "rumor." Sorry that no media outlet can provide bank statements as evidence.

BTW - BU is opting in this year. Heard this from 3 people. They have no choice. And yes, they have an NIL Collective which doles out money. I know people on the board of it. Hockey people. Whatever Caron said is woefully wrong or misinterpreted. They gave $50,000 to Boisvert, for example. But if you notice, they did this before the NIL Go clearinghouse was created last year, to get in under the wire. Now those kinds of deals are getting rejected. So if they don't opt in to revenue share, they will not be able to pay players. So that is coming soon.

All of this is in a story I'm trying to publish - but it's difficult this time of year with actual games going on.

Sorry I don't have bank statements.

Quote from: adamw on March 19, 2026, 11:52:48 AM

Quote from: adamw on March 18, 2026, 08:22:18 PMAs I've said before, believe what you want. Nothing about what's going on with rev share is a "rumor." Sorry that no media outlet can provide bank statements as evidence.

BTW - BU is opting in this year. Heard this from 3 people. They have no choice. And yes, they have an NIL Collective which doles out money. I know people on the board of it. Hockey people. Whatever Caron said is woefully wrong or misinterpreted. They gave $50,000 to Boisvert, for example. But if you notice, they did this before the NIL Go clearinghouse was created last year, to get in under the wire. Now those kinds of deals are getting rejected. So if they don't opt in to revenue share, they will not be able to pay players. So that is coming soon.

All of this is in a story I'm trying to publish - but it's difficult this time of year with actual games going on.

Sorry I don't have bank statements.

I think two things can be true -

1) they're paying guys like Boisvert, a highly-regarded first-rounder prospect, to transfer in
2) they're not paying guys like Caron, an undrafted goalie (who transferred in from Brown, where he was on the hook for every penny) who ended up in France

Quote from: stereax on March 19, 2026, 11:56:46 AM

Quote from: adamw on March 19, 2026, 11:52:48 AM

Quote from: adamw on March 18, 2026, 08:22:18 PMAs I've said before, believe what you want. Nothing about what's going on with rev share is a "rumor." Sorry that no media outlet can provide bank statements as evidence.

BTW - BU is opting in this year. Heard this from 3 people. They have no choice. And yes, they have an NIL Collective which doles out money. I know people on the board of it. Hockey people. Whatever Caron said is woefully wrong or misinterpreted. They gave $50,000 to Boisvert, for example. But if you notice, they did this before the NIL Go clearinghouse was created last year, to get in under the wire. Now those kinds of deals are getting rejected. So if they don't opt in to revenue share, they will not be able to pay players. So that is coming soon.

All of this is in a story I'm trying to publish - but it's difficult this time of year with actual games going on.

Sorry I don't have bank statements.

I think two things can be true -

1) they're paying guys like Boisvert, a highly-regarded first-rounder prospect, to transfer in
2) they're not paying guys like Caron, an undrafted goalie (who transferred in from Brown, where he was on the hook for every penny) who ended up in France

I also wonder, and I am 100% talking out of my ass here, if under the table payments still might happen from time to time even now.

I'm not engaging other than to quote the interview with Caron.

Host asks him: "were [the big names on the roster] getting NIL deals/getting paid and I was wondering if you have ever experienced that as well?"

Caron: "Canadians are on student visas so it's a little bit different.

The biggest sport at BU is hockey...no football program to bring in insane money...you saw guys like Bauer guys, Macklin [Celebrini] was CCM...it was more like that...I could not tell you any idea of any money guys actually made at BU...BU wasn't necessarily one of the schools [doing NIL], [unlike] the Big 10 schools."

Pretty clear he's talking about the team as a whole, and that the only NIL he was aware of was independent deals with eg. Bauer that were not organized through BU.

Quote from: BearLover on March 19, 2026, 12:39:16 PMI'm not engaging other than to quote the interview with Caron.

Host asks him: "were [the big names on the roster] getting NIL deals/getting paid and I was wondering if you have ever experienced that as well?"

Caron: "Canadians are on student visas so it's a little bit different.

The biggest sport at BU is hockey...no football program to bring in insane money...you saw guys like Bauer guys, Macklin [Celebrini] was CCM...it was more like that...I could not tell you any idea of any money guys actually made at BU...BU wasn't necessarily one of the schools [doing NIL], [unlike] the Big 10 schools."

Pretty clear he's talking about the team as a whole, and that the only NIL he was aware of was independent deals with eg. Bauer that were not organized through BU.

But he didn't say that players didn't receive money.

In fact he even says that he couldn't say if players made money.

      "I could not tell you any idea of any money guys actually made at BU."

And his statement about NIL,

     "BU wasn't necessarily one of the schools [doing NIL]"

is kind of vague about what the school might be doing with alum, boosters, etc.

Quote from: Jim Hyla on March 19, 2026, 03:55:57 PM

Quote from: BearLover on March 19, 2026, 12:39:16 PMI'm not engaging other than to quote the interview with Caron.

Host asks him: "were [the big names on the roster] getting NIL deals/getting paid and I was wondering if you have ever experienced that as well?"

Caron: "Canadians are on student visas so it's a little bit different.

The biggest sport at BU is hockey...no football program to bring in insane money...you saw guys like Bauer guys, Macklin [Celebrini] was CCM...it was more like that...I could not tell you any idea of any money guys actually made at BU...BU wasn't necessarily one of the schools [doing NIL], [unlike] the Big 10 schools."

Pretty clear he's talking about the team as a whole, and that the only NIL he was aware of was independent deals with eg. Bauer that were not organized through BU.

But he didn't say that players didn't receive money.

In fact he even says that he couldn't say if players made money.

      "I could not tell you any idea of any money guys actually made at BU."

And his statement about NIL,

     "BU wasn't necessarily one of the schools [doing NIL]"

is kind of vague about what the school might be doing with alum, boosters, etc.

I'm confused. How would the school be paying players with alums, boosters, etc. if not for NIL? That's precisely the way they would get paid.

I encourage you to listen to the interview. The clear context is that a couple stars like Macklin Celebrini might have Bauer endorsements and similar, but there is no coordinated NIL project on the part of BU.

Caron was equivocal at best and more likely dodging the question.

Quote from: ugarte on March 19, 2026, 05:07:37 PMCaron was equivocal at best and more likely dodging the question.

This seems completely wrong. I've heard plenty of coaches dodge this question by saying things like "guys are getting something but it's not life-changing money." Caron said nothing like that. He literally said he's not aware of anyone on the team getting anything aside from some Bauer-like endorsements. He made clear that it's nothing like what guys might be getting in the Big 10. Setting aside the (nonsensical) possibility that someone who played on the team for two years is completely oblivious to how much anyone else on the team is making, this was the most unequivocal denial of NIL I've heard short of WMU coach Pat Ferschweiler saying on a different podcast that no one on last year's nationally championship roster earned any payment whatsoever.

Quote from: BearLover on March 19, 2026, 05:17:32 PM

Quote from: ugarte on March 19, 2026, 05:07:37 PMCaron was equivocal at best and more likely dodging the question.

This seems completely wrong. I've heard plenty of coaches dodge this question by saying things like "guys are getting something but it's not life-changing money." Caron said nothing like that. He literally said he's not aware of anyone on the team getting anything aside from some Bauer-like endorsements. He made clear that it's nothing like what guys might be getting in the Big 10. Setting aside the (nonsensical) possibility that someone who played on the team for two years is completely oblivious to how much anyone else on the team is making, this was the most unequivocal denial of NIL I've heard short of WMU coach Pat Ferschweiler saying on a different podcast that no one on last year's nationally championship roster earned any payment whatsoever.

ok. i guess i just don't recognize the word no in deep disguise.

Quote from: BearLover on March 19, 2026, 12:39:16 PMThe biggest sport at BU is hockey...no football program to bring in insane money...

Since the time Moses brought down from Mount Sinai the stones with the Fifteen, oops, Ten Commandments, the words "BU" and "football program to bring in insane money" have not appeared together.

Quote from: billhoward on March 19, 2026, 05:51:36 PM

Quote from: BearLover on March 19, 2026, 12:39:16 PMThe biggest sport at BU is hockey...no football program to bring in insane money...

Since the time Moses brought down from Mount Sinai the stones with the Fifteen, oops, Ten Commandments, the words "BU" and "football program to bring in insane money" have not appeared together.

BU does not have a football program to bring in insane money.

;)

hard to get NIL as a canadian without being creative. where does BU come up with money to spend from revenue.  They dont get much from hockey TV and they get basically none from FB and BB TV money

Quote from: upprdeck on March 19, 2026, 06:34:12 PMhard to get NIL as a canadian without being creative. where does BU come up with money to spend from revenue.  They dont get much from hockey TV and they get basically none from FB and BB TV money

Some have been asking this very question

Quote from: BearLover on March 19, 2026, 06:40:55 PM

Quote from: upprdeck on March 19, 2026, 06:34:12 PMhard to get NIL as a canadian without being creative. where does BU come up with money to spend from revenue.  They dont get much from hockey TV and they get basically none from FB and BB TV money

Some have been asking this very question

Next you're going to say that "they're BU. They were the only private school that offered me a scholarship. I'm sure they could find the money somewhere" isn't a scientific or data driven (or useful) answer.

Having won this argument, I will now turn my attention to a brand new debate...stay tuned

Quote from: BearLover on March 19, 2026, 05:00:15 PM

Quote from: Jim Hyla on March 19, 2026, 03:55:57 PM

Quote from: BearLover on March 19, 2026, 12:39:16 PMI'm not engaging other than to quote the interview with Caron.

Host asks him: "were [the big names on the roster] getting NIL deals/getting paid and I was wondering if you have ever experienced that as well?"

Caron: "Canadians are on student visas so it's a little bit different.

The biggest sport at BU is hockey...no football program to bring in insane money...you saw guys like Bauer guys, Macklin [Celebrini] was CCM...it was more like that...I could not tell you any idea of any money guys actually made at BU...BU wasn't necessarily one of the schools [doing NIL], [unlike] the Big 10 schools."

Pretty clear he's talking about the team as a whole, and that the only NIL he was aware of was independent deals with eg. Bauer that were not organized through BU.

But he didn't say that players didn't receive money.

In fact he even says that he couldn't say if players made money.

      "I could not tell you any idea of any money guys actually made at BU."

And his statement about NIL,

    "BU wasn't necessarily one of the schools [doing NIL]"

is kind of vague about what the school might be doing with alum, boosters, etc.

I'm confused. How would the school be paying players with alums, boosters, etc. if not for NIL? That's precisely the way they would get paid.

I encourage you to listen to the interview. The clear context is that a couple stars like Macklin Celebrini might have Bauer endorsements and similar, but there is no coordinated NIL project on the part of BU.

I have said it before, and I will say it again: bearlover, your reading comprehension is abysmal and/or you have a remarkable ability to deluxe yourself into thinking something says what it does not.

As several others have already pointed out, "I could not tell you any idea of any money guys actually made at BU" is a very clear statement by caron.    What part of "I could not tell you any idea of my money...".is at all unclear?  It's the same as saying "I have no idea if guys made any money at BU."

And the second part, "BU wasn't necessarily one of the schools [doing NIL], [unlike] the Big 10 schools" is intentionally vague.

How you read all of this as proof that BU wasn't paying any NIL is beyond me.

Quote from: abmarks on March 20, 2026, 08:56:41 AM

Quote from: BearLover on March 19, 2026, 05:00:15 PM

Quote from: Jim Hyla on March 19, 2026, 03:55:57 PM

Quote from: BearLover on March 19, 2026, 12:39:16 PMI'm not engaging other than to quote the interview with Caron.

Host asks him: "were [the big names on the roster] getting NIL deals/getting paid and I was wondering if you have ever experienced that as well?"

Caron: "Canadians are on student visas so it's a little bit different.

The biggest sport at BU is hockey...no football program to bring in insane money...you saw guys like Bauer guys, Macklin [Celebrini] was CCM...it was more like that...I could not tell you any idea of any money guys actually made at BU...BU wasn't necessarily one of the schools [doing NIL], [unlike] the Big 10 schools."

Pretty clear he's talking about the team as a whole, and that the only NIL he was aware of was independent deals with eg. Bauer that were not organized through BU.

But he didn't say that players didn't receive money.

In fact he even says that he couldn't say if players made money.

      "I could not tell you any idea of any money guys actually made at BU."

And his statement about NIL,

    "BU wasn't necessarily one of the schools [doing NIL]"

is kind of vague about what the school might be doing with alum, boosters, etc.

I'm confused. How would the school be paying players with alums, boosters, etc. if not for NIL? That's precisely the way they would get paid.

I encourage you to listen to the interview. The clear context is that a couple stars like Macklin Celebrini might have Bauer endorsements and similar, but there is no coordinated NIL project on the part of BU.

I have said it before, and I will say it again: bearlover, your reading comprehension is abysmal and/or you have a remarkable ability to deluxe yourself into thinking something says what it does not.

As several others have already pointed out, "I could not tell you any idea of any money guys actually made at BU" is a very clear statement by caron.    What part of "I could not tell you any idea of my money...".is at all unclear?  It's the same as saying "I have no idea if guys made any money at BU."

And the second part, "BU wasn't necessarily one of the schools [doing NIL], [unlike] the Big 10 schools" is intentionally vague.

How you read all of this as proof that BU wasn't paying any NIL is beyond me.

As already discussed, this interpretation only works if you accept the premise that a guy who was on the team for two full seasons was completely oblivious to what other guys were getting paid.

On to the next debate!

Quote from: BearLover on March 20, 2026, 09:04:26 AM

Quote from: abmarks on March 20, 2026, 08:56:41 AM

Quote from: BearLover on March 19, 2026, 05:00:15 PM

Quote from: Jim Hyla on March 19, 2026, 03:55:57 PM

Quote from: BearLover on March 19, 2026, 12:39:16 PMI'm not engaging other than to quote the interview with Caron.

Host asks him: "were [the big names on the roster] getting NIL deals/getting paid and I was wondering if you have ever experienced that as well?"

Caron: "Canadians are on student visas so it's a little bit different.

The biggest sport at BU is hockey...no football program to bring in insane money...you saw guys like Bauer guys, Macklin [Celebrini] was CCM...it was more like that...I could not tell you any idea of any money guys actually made at BU...BU wasn't necessarily one of the schools [doing NIL], [unlike] the Big 10 schools."

Pretty clear he's talking about the team as a whole, and that the only NIL he was aware of was independent deals with eg. Bauer that were not organized through BU.

But he didn't say that players didn't receive money.

In fact he even says that he couldn't say if players made money.

      "I could not tell you any idea of any money guys actually made at BU."

And his statement about NIL,

    "BU wasn't necessarily one of the schools [doing NIL]"

is kind of vague about what the school might be doing with alum, boosters, etc.

I'm confused. How would the school be paying players with alums, boosters, etc. if not for NIL? That's precisely the way they would get paid.

I encourage you to listen to the interview. The clear context is that a couple stars like Macklin Celebrini might have Bauer endorsements and similar, but there is no coordinated NIL project on the part of BU.

I have said it before, and I will say it again: bearlover, your reading comprehension is abysmal and/or you have a remarkable ability to deluxe yourself into thinking something says what it does not.

As several others have already pointed out, "I could not tell you any idea of any money guys actually made at BU" is a very clear statement by caron.    What part of "I could not tell you any idea of my money...".is at all unclear?  It's the same as saying "I have no idea if guys made any money at BU."

And the second part, "BU wasn't necessarily one of the schools [doing NIL], [unlike] the Big 10 schools" is intentionally vague.

How you read all of this as proof that BU wasn't paying any NIL is beyond me.

As already discussed, this interpretation only works if you accept the premise that a guy who was on the team for two full seasons was completely oblivious to what other guys were getting paid.

On to the next debate!

Quote from: BearLover on March 20, 2026, 09:04:26 AM

Quote from: abmarks on March 20, 2026, 08:56:41 AM

Quote from: BearLover on March 19, 2026, 05:00:15 PM

Quote from: Jim Hyla on March 19, 2026, 03:55:57 PM

Quote from: BearLover on March 19, 2026, 12:39:16 PMI'm not engaging other than to quote the interview with Caron.

Host asks him: "were [the big names on the roster] getting NIL deals/getting paid and I was wondering if you have ever experienced that as well?"

Caron: "Canadians are on student visas so it's a little bit different.

The biggest sport at BU is hockey...no football program to bring in insane money...you saw guys like Bauer guys, Macklin [Celebrini] was CCM...it was more like that...I could not tell you any idea of any money guys actually made at BU...BU wasn't necessarily one of the schools [doing NIL], [unlike] the Big 10 schools."

Pretty clear he's talking about the team as a whole, and that the only NIL he was aware of was independent deals with eg. Bauer that were not organized through BU.

But he didn't say that players didn't receive money.

In fact he even says that he couldn't say if players made money.

      "I could not tell you any idea of any money guys actually made at BU."

And his statement about NIL,

    "BU wasn't necessarily one of the schools [doing NIL]"

is kind of vague about what the school might be doing with alum, boosters, etc.

I'm confused. How would the school be paying players with alums, boosters, etc. if not for NIL? That's precisely the way they would get paid.

I encourage you to listen to the interview. The clear context is that a couple stars like Macklin Celebrini might have Bauer endorsements and similar, but there is no coordinated NIL project on the part of BU.

I have said it before, and I will say it again: bearlover, your reading comprehension is abysmal and/or you have a remarkable ability to deluxe yourself into thinking something says what it does not.

As several others have already pointed out, "I could not tell you any idea of any money guys actually made at BU" is a very clear statement by caron.    What part of "I could not tell you any idea of my money...".is at all unclear?  It's the same as saying "I have no idea if guys made any money at BU."

And the second part, "BU wasn't necessarily one of the schools [doing NIL], [unlike] the Big 10 schools" is intentionally vague.

How you read all of this as proof that BU wasn't paying any NIL is beyond me.

As already discussed, this interpretation only works if you accept the premise that a guy who was on the team for two full seasons was completely oblivious to what other guys were getting paid.

On to the next debate!

Do you know what all your coworkers get paid?

Quote from: abmarks on March 20, 2026, 09:18:26 AM

Quote from: BearLover on March 20, 2026, 09:04:26 AM

Quote from: abmarks on March 20, 2026, 08:56:41 AM

Quote from: BearLover on March 19, 2026, 05:00:15 PM

Quote from: Jim Hyla on March 19, 2026, 03:55:57 PM

Quote from: BearLover on March 19, 2026, 12:39:16 PMI'm not engaging other than to quote the interview with Caron.

Host asks him: "were [the big names on the roster] getting NIL deals/getting paid and I was wondering if you have ever experienced that as well?"

Caron: "Canadians are on student visas so it's a little bit different.

The biggest sport at BU is hockey...no football program to bring in insane money...you saw guys like Bauer guys, Macklin [Celebrini] was CCM...it was more like that...I could not tell you any idea of any money guys actually made at BU...BU wasn't necessarily one of the schools [doing NIL], [unlike] the Big 10 schools."

Pretty clear he's talking about the team as a whole, and that the only NIL he was aware of was independent deals with eg. Bauer that were not organized through BU.

But he didn't say that players didn't receive money.

In fact he even says that he couldn't say if players made money.

      "I could not tell you any idea of any money guys actually made at BU."

And his statement about NIL,

    "BU wasn't necessarily one of the schools [doing NIL]"

is kind of vague about what the school might be doing with alum, boosters, etc.

I'm confused. How would the school be paying players with alums, boosters, etc. if not for NIL? That's precisely the way they would get paid.

I encourage you to listen to the interview. The clear context is that a couple stars like Macklin Celebrini might have Bauer endorsements and similar, but there is no coordinated NIL project on the part of BU.

I have said it before, and I will say it again: bearlover, your reading comprehension is abysmal and/or you have a remarkable ability to deluxe yourself into thinking something says what it does not.

As several others have already pointed out, "I could not tell you any idea of any money guys actually made at BU" is a very clear statement by caron.    What part of "I could not tell you any idea of my money...".is at all unclear?  It's the same as saying "I have no idea if guys made any money at BU."

And the second part, "BU wasn't necessarily one of the schools [doing NIL], [unlike] the Big 10 schools" is intentionally vague.

How you read all of this as proof that BU wasn't paying any NIL is beyond me.

As already discussed, this interpretation only works if you accept the premise that a guy who was on the team for two full seasons was completely oblivious to what other guys were getting paid.

On to the next debate!

Quote from: BearLover on March 20, 2026, 09:04:26 AM

Quote from: abmarks on March 20, 2026, 08:56:41 AM

Quote from: BearLover on March 19, 2026, 05:00:15 PM

Quote from: Jim Hyla on March 19, 2026, 03:55:57 PM

Quote from: BearLover on March 19, 2026, 12:39:16 PMI'm not engaging other than to quote the interview with Caron.

Host asks him: "were [the big names on the roster] getting NIL deals/getting paid and I was wondering if you have ever experienced that as well?"

Caron: "Canadians are on student visas so it's a little bit different.

The biggest sport at BU is hockey...no football program to bring in insane money...you saw guys like Bauer guys, Macklin [Celebrini] was CCM...it was more like that...I could not tell you any idea of any money guys actually made at BU...BU wasn't necessarily one of the schools [doing NIL], [unlike] the Big 10 schools."

Pretty clear he's talking about the team as a whole, and that the only NIL he was aware of was independent deals with eg. Bauer that were not organized through BU.

But he didn't say that players didn't receive money.

In fact he even says that he couldn't say if players made money.

      "I could not tell you any idea of any money guys actually made at BU."

And his statement about NIL,

    "BU wasn't necessarily one of the schools [doing NIL]"

is kind of vague about what the school might be doing with alum, boosters, etc.

I'm confused. How would the school be paying players with alums, boosters, etc. if not for NIL? That's precisely the way they would get paid.

I encourage you to listen to the interview. The clear context is that a couple stars like Macklin Celebrini might have Bauer endorsements and similar, but there is no coordinated NIL project on the part of BU.

I have said it before, and I will say it again: bearlover, your reading comprehension is abysmal and/or you have a remarkable ability to deluxe yourself into thinking something says what it does not.

As several others have already pointed out, "I could not tell you any idea of any money guys actually made at BU" is a very clear statement by caron.    What part of "I could not tell you any idea of my money...".is at all unclear?  It's the same as saying "I have no idea if guys made any money at BU."

And the second part, "BU wasn't necessarily one of the schools [doing NIL], [unlike] the Big 10 schools" is intentionally vague.

How you read all of this as proof that BU wasn't paying any NIL is beyond me.

As already discussed, this interpretation only works if you accept the premise that a guy who was on the team for two full seasons was completely oblivious to what other guys were getting paid.

On to the next debate!

Do you know what all your coworkers get paid?

Don't wait too long for an answer.  BLer BSer "proactively" stopped posting on this thread on the 18th.

Quote from: abmarks on March 20, 2026, 09:18:26 AM

Quote from: BearLover on March 20, 2026, 09:04:26 AM

Quote from: abmarks on March 20, 2026, 08:56:41 AM

Quote from: BearLover on March 19, 2026, 05:00:15 PM

Quote from: Jim Hyla on March 19, 2026, 03:55:57 PM

Quote from: BearLover on March 19, 2026, 12:39:16 PMI'm not engaging other than to quote the interview with Caron.

Host asks him: "were [the big names on the roster] getting NIL deals/getting paid and I was wondering if you have ever experienced that as well?"

Caron: "Canadians are on student visas so it's a little bit different.

The biggest sport at BU is hockey...no football program to bring in insane money...you saw guys like Bauer guys, Macklin [Celebrini] was CCM...it was more like that...I could not tell you any idea of any money guys actually made at BU...BU wasn't necessarily one of the schools [doing NIL], [unlike] the Big 10 schools."

Pretty clear he's talking about the team as a whole, and that the only NIL he was aware of was independent deals with eg. Bauer that were not organized through BU.

But he didn't say that players didn't receive money.

In fact he even says that he couldn't say if players made money.

      "I could not tell you any idea of any money guys actually made at BU."

And his statement about NIL,

    "BU wasn't necessarily one of the schools [doing NIL]"

is kind of vague about what the school might be doing with alum, boosters, etc.

I'm confused. How would the school be paying players with alums, boosters, etc. if not for NIL? That's precisely the way they would get paid.

I encourage you to listen to the interview. The clear context is that a couple stars like Macklin Celebrini might have Bauer endorsements and similar, but there is no coordinated NIL project on the part of BU.

I have said it before, and I will say it again: bearlover, your reading comprehension is abysmal and/or you have a remarkable ability to deluxe yourself into thinking something says what it does not.

As several others have already pointed out, "I could not tell you any idea of any money guys actually made at BU" is a very clear statement by caron.    What part of "I could not tell you any idea of my money...".is at all unclear?  It's the same as saying "I have no idea if guys made any money at BU."

And the second part, "BU wasn't necessarily one of the schools [doing NIL], [unlike] the Big 10 schools" is intentionally vague.

How you read all of this as proof that BU wasn't paying any NIL is beyond me.

As already discussed, this interpretation only works if you accept the premise that a guy who was on the team for two full seasons was completely oblivious to what other guys were getting paid.

On to the next debate!

Quote from: BearLover on March 20, 2026, 09:04:26 AM

Quote from: abmarks on March 20, 2026, 08:56:41 AM

Quote from: BearLover on March 19, 2026, 05:00:15 PM

Quote from: Jim Hyla on March 19, 2026, 03:55:57 PM

Quote from: BearLover on March 19, 2026, 12:39:16 PMI'm not engaging other than to quote the interview with Caron.

Host asks him: "were [the big names on the roster] getting NIL deals/getting paid and I was wondering if you have ever experienced that as well?"

Caron: "Canadians are on student visas so it's a little bit different.

The biggest sport at BU is hockey...no football program to bring in insane money...you saw guys like Bauer guys, Macklin [Celebrini] was CCM...it was more like that...I could not tell you any idea of any money guys actually made at BU...BU wasn't necessarily one of the schools [doing NIL], [unlike] the Big 10 schools."

Pretty clear he's talking about the team as a whole, and that the only NIL he was aware of was independent deals with eg. Bauer that were not organized through BU.

But he didn't say that players didn't receive money.

In fact he even says that he couldn't say if players made money.

      "I could not tell you any idea of any money guys actually made at BU."

And his statement about NIL,

    "BU wasn't necessarily one of the schools [doing NIL]"

is kind of vague about what the school might be doing with alum, boosters, etc.

I'm confused. How would the school be paying players with alums, boosters, etc. if not for NIL? That's precisely the way they would get paid.

I encourage you to listen to the interview. The clear context is that a couple stars like Macklin Celebrini might have Bauer endorsements and similar, but there is no coordinated NIL project on the part of BU.

I have said it before, and I will say it again: bearlover, your reading comprehension is abysmal and/or you have a remarkable ability to deluxe yourself into thinking something says what it does not.

As several others have already pointed out, "I could not tell you any idea of any money guys actually made at BU" is a very clear statement by caron.    What part of "I could not tell you any idea of my money...".is at all unclear?  It's the same as saying "I have no idea if guys made any money at BU."

And the second part, "BU wasn't necessarily one of the schools [doing NIL], [unlike] the Big 10 schools" is intentionally vague.

How you read all of this as proof that BU wasn't paying any NIL is beyond me.

As already discussed, this interpretation only works if you accept the premise that a guy who was on the team for two full seasons was completely oblivious to what other guys were getting paid.

On to the next debate!

Do you know what all your coworkers get paid?

Yes

But also, completely different situation when you have just 25 coworkers with whom you spend almost every waking hour

Quote from: marty on March 20, 2026, 09:49:04 AM

Quote from: abmarks on March 20, 2026, 09:18:26 AM

Quote from: BearLover on March 20, 2026, 09:04:26 AM

Quote from: abmarks on March 20, 2026, 08:56:41 AM

Quote from: BearLover on March 19, 2026, 05:00:15 PM

Quote from: Jim Hyla on March 19, 2026, 03:55:57 PM

Quote from: BearLover on March 19, 2026, 12:39:16 PMI'm not engaging other than to quote the interview with Caron.

Host asks him: "were [the big names on the roster] getting NIL deals/getting paid and I was wondering if you have ever experienced that as well?"

Caron: "Canadians are on student visas so it's a little bit different.

The biggest sport at BU is hockey...no football program to bring in insane money...you saw guys like Bauer guys, Macklin [Celebrini] was CCM...it was more like that...I could not tell you any idea of any money guys actually made at BU...BU wasn't necessarily one of the schools [doing NIL], [unlike] the Big 10 schools."

Pretty clear he's talking about the team as a whole, and that the only NIL he was aware of was independent deals with eg. Bauer that were not organized through BU.

But he didn't say that players didn't receive money.

In fact he even says that he couldn't say if players made money.

      "I could not tell you any idea of any money guys actually made at BU."

And his statement about NIL,

    "BU wasn't necessarily one of the schools [doing NIL]"

is kind of vague about what the school might be doing with alum, boosters, etc.

I'm confused. How would the school be paying players with alums, boosters, etc. if not for NIL? That's precisely the way they would get paid.

I encourage you to listen to the interview. The clear context is that a couple stars like Macklin Celebrini might have Bauer endorsements and similar, but there is no coordinated NIL project on the part of BU.

I have said it before, and I will say it again: bearlover, your reading comprehension is abysmal and/or you have a remarkable ability to deluxe yourself into thinking something says what it does not.

As several others have already pointed out, "I could not tell you any idea of any money guys actually made at BU" is a very clear statement by caron.    What part of "I could not tell you any idea of my money...".is at all unclear?  It's the same as saying "I have no idea if guys made any money at BU."

And the second part, "BU wasn't necessarily one of the schools [doing NIL], [unlike] the Big 10 schools" is intentionally vague.

How you read all of this as proof that BU wasn't paying any NIL is beyond me.

As already discussed, this interpretation only works if you accept the premise that a guy who was on the team for two full seasons was completely oblivious to what other guys were getting paid.

On to the next debate!

Quote from: BearLover on March 20, 2026, 09:04:26 AM

Quote from: abmarks on March 20, 2026, 08:56:41 AM

Quote from: BearLover on March 19, 2026, 05:00:15 PM

Quote from: Jim Hyla on March 19, 2026, 03:55:57 PM

Quote from: BearLover on March 19, 2026, 12:39:16 PMI'm not engaging other than to quote the interview with Caron.

Host asks him: "were [the big names on the roster] getting NIL deals/getting paid and I was wondering if you have ever experienced that as well?"

Caron: "Canadians are on student visas so it's a little bit different.

The biggest sport at BU is hockey...no football program to bring in insane money...you saw guys like Bauer guys, Macklin [Celebrini] was CCM...it was more like that...I could not tell you any idea of any money guys actually made at BU...BU wasn't necessarily one of the schools [doing NIL], [unlike] the Big 10 schools."

Pretty clear he's talking about the team as a whole, and that the only NIL he was aware of was independent deals with eg. Bauer that were not organized through BU.

But he didn't say that players didn't receive money.

In fact he even says that he couldn't say if players made money.

      "I could not tell you any idea of any money guys actually made at BU."

And his statement about NIL,

    "BU wasn't necessarily one of the schools [doing NIL]"

is kind of vague about what the school might be doing with alum, boosters, etc.

I'm confused. How would the school be paying players with alums, boosters, etc. if not for NIL? That's precisely the way they would get paid.

I encourage you to listen to the interview. The clear context is that a couple stars like Macklin Celebrini might have Bauer endorsements and similar, but there is no coordinated NIL project on the part of BU.

I have said it before, and I will say it again: bearlover, your reading comprehension is abysmal and/or you have a remarkable ability to deluxe yourself into thinking something says what it does not.

As several others have already pointed out, "I could not tell you any idea of any money guys actually made at BU" is a very clear statement by caron.    What part of "I could not tell you any idea of my money...".is at all unclear?  It's the same as saying "I have no idea if guys made any money at BU."

And the second part, "BU wasn't necessarily one of the schools [doing NIL], [unlike] the Big 10 schools" is intentionally vague.

How you read all of this as proof that BU wasn't paying any NIL is beyond me.

As already discussed, this interpretation only works if you accept the premise that a guy who was on the team for two full seasons was completely oblivious to what other guys were getting paid.

On to the next debate!

Do you know what all your coworkers get paid?

Don't wait too long for an answer.  BLer BSer "proactively" stopped posting on this thread on the 18th.

The 18th was a major turning point for this thread!

Quote from: BearLover on March 19, 2026, 05:17:32 PM

Quote from: ugarte on March 19, 2026, 05:07:37 PMCaron was equivocal at best and more likely dodging the question.

This seems completely wrong. I've heard plenty of coaches dodge this question by saying things like "guys are getting something but it's not life-changing money." Caron said nothing like that. He literally said he's not aware of anyone on the team getting anything aside from some Bauer-like endorsements. He made clear that it's nothing like what guys might be getting in the Big 10. Setting aside the (nonsensical) possibility that someone who played on the team for two years is completely oblivious to how much anyone else on the team is making, this was the most unequivocal denial of NIL I've heard short of WMU coach Pat Ferschweiler saying on a different podcast that no one on last year's nationally championship roster earned any payment whatsoever.

My god. Yeah - BU has an NIL collective, with hockey alums on its board - but it just exists to play games of Canasta with other.

You're hopeless. But again - I only say this for the benefit of others here.

What Caron said is completely irrelevant. Whether he was fudging, or just doesn't know. Either way, it exists. $300k. And will be that going forward, with rev share, once they opt in. Factual information. Sorry no bank statements.

As for where they get the money - donors, like everything else. That's what NIL Collectives are.

The idea that BU wouldn't pay players while BC, other Hockey East teams, and every other large program nationally they compete with does -- defies all forms of logic. But -- ya know.

$300K, or about $10K ($7K after taxes?) per player, diverted from other uses within the hockey program, is more evidence that even among the blue bloods, NIL plays a small role in college hockey. Makes me more hopeful for the future. LGR 

What do you all think happens with the "Jack Parker Fund" at BU's NIL Collective?

They raise money for knitting classes.

https://www.scarlettcommonwealth.org/general-9

This whole thread is hilarious to anyone out there.

Quote from: BearLover on March 20, 2026, 12:47:22 PM$300K, or about $10K per player, diverted from other uses within the hockey program, is more evidence that even among the blue bloods, NIL plays a small role in college hockey. Makes me more hopeful for the future. LGR 

Ah - so now you've moved the goalposts. What else is new.

You can have your definition of whether the money is playing a small role or not. (And once again, NIL and rev share are two different things.) You call it small, others call it big. It's all perspective and relative.

But continuing to die on a hill that NIL/Rev Share/ etc... doesn't exist at this places -- is not just factually wrong, but madness.

Quote from: adamw on March 20, 2026, 12:47:49 PMWhat do you all think happens with the "Jack Parker Fund" at BU's NIL Collective?

They raise money for knitting classes.

https://www.scarlettcommonwealth.org/general-9

This whole thread is hilarious to anyone out there.

I would imagine it is very similar to other NIL collectives in that it raises money to make NIL payments to players. Could be anywhere from $0 to $1bn. But the collective's existence on its own means very little. I would further imagine that a donor who chooses to give to this collective would have donated to BU hockey regardless, so in effect the money is simply being shifted from other uses within the hockey team, whether coaches' salaries, nutrition, facilities, travel, etc.

Quote from: BearLover on March 20, 2026, 12:54:40 PM

Quote from: adamw on March 20, 2026, 12:47:49 PMWhat do you all think happens with the "Jack Parker Fund" at BU's NIL Collective?

They raise money for knitting classes.

https://www.scarlettcommonwealth.org/general-9

This whole thread is hilarious to anyone out there.

I would imagine it is very similar to other NIL collectives in that it raises money to make NIL payments to players. Could be anywhere from $0 to $1bn. But the collective's existence on its own means very little. I would further imagine that a donor who chooses to give to this collective would have donated to BU hockey regardless, so in effect the money is simply being shifted from other uses within the hockey team, whether coaches' salaries, nutrition, facilities, travel, etc.

that may or may not be true - but how is that relevant? All schools are in the process of creatively figuring out ways to raise more money. Shifting, begging donors to do more, turning over every rock. Whatever. This is happening across every sport, every school, everywhere.  There's a new story every day about how some donor stepped up and gave X,Y,Z to this program or that.  Lake Superior State - of all places - announced that someone was donating $1 million to its hockey program. Next thing you know - they stole a recruit from an ECAC school by offering $50,000 to switch commitments.

whether this is harmful, helpful, no big deal, or whatever - that's an opinion. All I'm telling you is - it's happening.

If some of the Ivy League schools and non-Ivy ECAC schools would opt-in - or be allowed to opt-in ... any one of their many billionaire alums could dump $100 million into their pot - and use it to pay players. At the moment - not allowed. But this is happening all over.

And it's all relative. I mean, St. John's basketball suddenly got good again because a major billionaire decided to dump wads of cash in. About $4 to $5 million per year.  That kind of level of cash wasn't being donated to the St. John's basketball program before.  But this guy wanted to help buy players.  He wasn't donating to buy sneakers before.

https://www.sportsbusinessjournal.com/Articles/2025/03/14/inside-the-billionaire-nil-donor-behind-st-johns-basketball-success/

So - this is - and will - continue to happen, at various levels everywhere. Including college hockey.

Quote from: adamw on March 20, 2026, 01:01:07 PM

Quote from: BearLover on March 20, 2026, 12:54:40 PM

Quote from: adamw on March 20, 2026, 12:47:49 PMWhat do you all think happens with the "Jack Parker Fund" at BU's NIL Collective?

They raise money for knitting classes.

https://www.scarlettcommonwealth.org/general-9

This whole thread is hilarious to anyone out there.

I would imagine it is very similar to other NIL collectives in that it raises money to make NIL payments to players. Could be anywhere from $0 to $1bn. But the collective's existence on its own means very little. I would further imagine that a donor who chooses to give to this collective would have donated to BU hockey regardless, so in effect the money is simply being shifted from other uses within the hockey team, whether coaches' salaries, nutrition, facilities, travel, etc.

that may or may not be true - but how is that relevant? All schools are in the process of creatively figuring out ways to raise more money. Shifting, begging donors to do more, turning over every rock. Whatever. This is happening across every sport, every school, everywhere.  There's a new story every day about how some donor stepped up and gave X,Y,Z to this program or that.  Lake Superior State - of all places - announced that someone was donating $1 million to its hockey program. Next thing you know - they stole a recruit from an ECAC school by offering $50,000 to switch commitments.

whether this is harmful, helpful, no big deal, or whatever - that's an opinion. All I'm telling you is - it's happening.

If some of the Ivy League schools and non-Ivy ECAC schools would opt-in - or be allowed to opt-in ... any one of their many billionaire alums could dump $100 million into their pot - and use it to pay players. At the moment - not allowed. But this is happening all over.

And it's all relative. I mean, St. John's basketball suddenly got good again because a major billionaire decided to dump wads of cash in. About $4 to $5 million per year.  That kind of level of cash wasn't being donated to the St. John's basketball program before.  But this guy wanted to help buy players.  He wasn't donating to buy sneakers before.

https://www.sportsbusinessjournal.com/Articles/2025/03/14/inside-the-billionaire-nil-donor-behind-st-johns-basketball-success/

So - this is - and will - continue to happen, at various levels everywhere. Including college hockey.

BearLover, Adam has a very strong point.  Seems to me there is only one approach that will work:  put up or shut up!  Donate $1 millions to the Cornell Hockey team or we will all suffer the consequences of lost national titles.

Quote from: Old Red on March 20, 2026, 01:13:02 PM

Quote from: adamw on March 20, 2026, 01:01:07 PM

Quote from: BearLover on March 20, 2026, 12:54:40 PM

Quote from: adamw on March 20, 2026, 12:47:49 PMWhat do you all think happens with the "Jack Parker Fund" at BU's NIL Collective?

They raise money for knitting classes.

https://www.scarlettcommonwealth.org/general-9

This whole thread is hilarious to anyone out there.

I would imagine it is very similar to other NIL collectives in that it raises money to make NIL payments to players. Could be anywhere from $0 to $1bn. But the collective's existence on its own means very little. I would further imagine that a donor who chooses to give to this collective would have donated to BU hockey regardless, so in effect the money is simply being shifted from other uses within the hockey team, whether coaches' salaries, nutrition, facilities, travel, etc.

that may or may not be true - but how is that relevant? All schools are in the process of creatively figuring out ways to raise more money. Shifting, begging donors to do more, turning over every rock. Whatever. This is happening across every sport, every school, everywhere.  There's a new story every day about how some donor stepped up and gave X,Y,Z to this program or that.  Lake Superior State - of all places - announced that someone was donating $1 million to its hockey program. Next thing you know - they stole a recruit from an ECAC school by offering $50,000 to switch commitments.

whether this is harmful, helpful, no big deal, or whatever - that's an opinion. All I'm telling you is - it's happening.

If some of the Ivy League schools and non-Ivy ECAC schools would opt-in - or be allowed to opt-in ... any one of their many billionaire alums could dump $100 million into their pot - and use it to pay players. At the moment - not allowed. But this is happening all over.

And it's all relative. I mean, St. John's basketball suddenly got good again because a major billionaire decided to dump wads of cash in. About $4 to $5 million per year.  That kind of level of cash wasn't being donated to the St. John's basketball program before.  But this guy wanted to help buy players.  He wasn't donating to buy sneakers before.

https://www.sportsbusinessjournal.com/Articles/2025/03/14/inside-the-billionaire-nil-donor-behind-st-johns-basketball-success/

So - this is - and will - continue to happen, at various levels everywhere. Including college hockey.

BearLover, Adam has a very strong point.  Seems to me there is only one approach that will work:  put up or shut up!  Donate $1 millions to the Cornell Hockey team or we will all suffer the consequences of lost national titles.

Or, he can give all of us 7 grand, since it is so insignificant.

Adam, I think you said you have an article in the works. Will you have anything you can say in it about what the Ivy schools or coaches are doing, if anything, to adapt to the changing landscape?

Quote from: adamw on March 20, 2026, 12:47:49 PMWhat do you all think happens with the "Jack Parker Fund" at BU's NIL Collective?

They raise money for knitting classes.

https://www.scarlettcommonwealth.org/general-9

This whole thread is hilarious to anyone out there.

Thank you for responding - is been enlightening. 

Quote from: The Rancor on March 20, 2026, 01:28:45 PM

Quote from: Old Red on March 20, 2026, 01:13:02 PM

Quote from: adamw on March 20, 2026, 01:01:07 PM

Quote from: BearLover on March 20, 2026, 12:54:40 PM

Quote from: adamw on March 20, 2026, 12:47:49 PMWhat do you all think happens with the "Jack Parker Fund" at BU's NIL Collective?

They raise money for knitting classes.

https://www.scarlettcommonwealth.org/general-9

This whole thread is hilarious to anyone out there.

I would imagine it is very similar to other NIL collectives in that it raises money to make NIL payments to players. Could be anywhere from $0 to $1bn. But the collective's existence on its own means very little. I would further imagine that a donor who chooses to give to this collective would have donated to BU hockey regardless, so in effect the money is simply being shifted from other uses within the hockey team, whether coaches' salaries, nutrition, facilities, travel, etc.

that may or may not be true - but how is that relevant? All schools are in the process of creatively figuring out ways to raise more money. Shifting, begging donors to do more, turning over every rock. Whatever. This is happening across every sport, every school, everywhere.  There's a new story every day about how some donor stepped up and gave X,Y,Z to this program or that.  Lake Superior State - of all places - announced that someone was donating $1 million to its hockey program. Next thing you know - they stole a recruit from an ECAC school by offering $50,000 to switch commitments.

whether this is harmful, helpful, no big deal, or whatever - that's an opinion. All I'm telling you is - it's happening.

If some of the Ivy League schools and non-Ivy ECAC schools would opt-in - or be allowed to opt-in ... any one of their many billionaire alums could dump $100 million into their pot - and use it to pay players. At the moment - not allowed. But this is happening all over.

And it's all relative. I mean, St. John's basketball suddenly got good again because a major billionaire decided to dump wads of cash in. About $4 to $5 million per year.  That kind of level of cash wasn't being donated to the St. John's basketball program before.  But this guy wanted to help buy players.  He wasn't donating to buy sneakers before.

https://www.sportsbusinessjournal.com/Articles/2025/03/14/inside-the-billionaire-nil-donor-behind-st-johns-basketball-success/

So - this is - and will - continue to happen, at various levels everywhere. Including college hockey.

BearLover, Adam has a very strong point.  Seems to me there is only one approach that will work:  put up or shut up!  Donate $1 millions to the Cornell Hockey team or we will all suffer the consequences of lost national titles.

Or, he can give all of us 7 grand, since it is so insignificant.

That's obviously not what I said. The  point is that in the scheme of $100K cost of attendance, $7K isn't a deal-breaker. And it's a lot less than what most rumors suggest.   

Quote from: JasonN95 on March 20, 2026, 02:01:51 PMAdam, I think you said you have an article in the works. Will you have anything you can say in it about what the Ivy schools or coaches are doing, if anything, to adapt to the changing landscape?

Definitely worth it for Adam to ask. But just to be clear, the Ivy League put out a directive forbidding its member schools and athletic departments from organizing/soliciting NIL. So the schools and coaches themselves probably can't do anything in the NIL space. However, the Ivy can't stop third parties—eg. the NIL collective for Penn basketball—which is probably the only path forward. Other than that, I would remind people of my suggestion to set recruits up with internships/jobs. I understand this is currently being pursued.

Quote from: BearLover on March 20, 2026, 03:36:38 PM

Quote from: JasonN95 on March 20, 2026, 02:01:51 PMAdam, I think you said you have an article in the works. Will you have anything you can say in it about what the Ivy schools or coaches are doing, if anything, to adapt to the changing landscape?

Definitely worth it for Adam to ask. But just to be clear, the Ivy League put out a directive forbidding its member schools and athletic departments from organizing/soliciting NIL. So the schools and coaches themselves probably can't do anything in the NIL space. However, the Ivy can't stop third parties—eg. the NIL collective for Penn basketball—which is probably the only path forward. Other than that, I would remind people of my suggestion to set recruits up with internships/jobs. I understand this is currently being pursued.

By any of your many ex-emplorers?

Quote from: marty on March 20, 2026, 03:54:09 PM

Quote from: BearLover on March 20, 2026, 03:36:38 PM

Quote from: JasonN95 on March 20, 2026, 02:01:51 PMAdam, I think you said you have an article in the works. Will you have anything you can say in it about what the Ivy schools or coaches are doing, if anything, to adapt to the changing landscape?

Definitely worth it for Adam to ask. But just to be clear, the Ivy League put out a directive forbidding its member schools and athletic departments from organizing/soliciting NIL. So the schools and coaches themselves probably can't do anything in the NIL space. However, the Ivy can't stop third parties—eg. the NIL collective for Penn basketball—which is probably the only path forward. Other than that, I would remind people of my suggestion to set recruits up with internships/jobs. I understand this is currently being pursued.

By any of your many ex-emplorers?

By Casey Jones.

Quote from: BearLover on March 20, 2026, 03:31:09 PM

Quote from: The Rancor on March 20, 2026, 01:28:45 PM

Quote from: Old Red on March 20, 2026, 01:13:02 PM

Quote from: adamw on March 20, 2026, 01:01:07 PM

Quote from: BearLover on March 20, 2026, 12:54:40 PM

Quote from: adamw on March 20, 2026, 12:47:49 PMWhat do you all think happens with the "Jack Parker Fund" at BU's NIL Collective?

They raise money for knitting classes.

https://www.scarlettcommonwealth.org/general-9

This whole thread is hilarious to anyone out there.

I would imagine it is very similar to other NIL collectives in that it raises money to make NIL payments to players. Could be anywhere from $0 to $1bn. But the collective's existence on its own means very little. I would further imagine that a donor who chooses to give to this collective would have donated to BU hockey regardless, so in effect the money is simply being shifted from other uses within the hockey team, whether coaches' salaries, nutrition, facilities, travel, etc.

that may or may not be true - but how is that relevant? All schools are in the process of creatively figuring out ways to raise more money. Shifting, begging donors to do more, turning over every rock. Whatever. This is happening across every sport, every school, everywhere.  There's a new story every day about how some donor stepped up and gave X,Y,Z to this program or that.  Lake Superior State - of all places - announced that someone was donating $1 million to its hockey program. Next thing you know - they stole a recruit from an ECAC school by offering $50,000 to switch commitments.

whether this is harmful, helpful, no big deal, or whatever - that's an opinion. All I'm telling you is - it's happening.

If some of the Ivy League schools and non-Ivy ECAC schools would opt-in - or be allowed to opt-in ... any one of their many billionaire alums could dump $100 million into their pot - and use it to pay players. At the moment - not allowed. But this is happening all over.

And it's all relative. I mean, St. John's basketball suddenly got good again because a major billionaire decided to dump wads of cash in. About $4 to $5 million per year.  That kind of level of cash wasn't being donated to the St. John's basketball program before.  But this guy wanted to help buy players.  He wasn't donating to buy sneakers before.

https://www.sportsbusinessjournal.com/Articles/2025/03/14/inside-the-billionaire-nil-donor-behind-st-johns-basketball-success/

So - this is - and will - continue to happen, at various levels everywhere. Including college hockey.

BearLover, Adam has a very strong point.  Seems to me there is only one approach that will work:  put up or shut up!  Donate $1 millions to the Cornell Hockey team or we will all suffer the consequences of lost national titles.

Or, he can give all of us 7 grand, since it is so insignificant.

That's obviously not what I said. The  point is that in the scheme of $100K cost of attendance, $7K isn't a deal-breaker. And it's a lot less than what most rumors suggest.   

This might be, of all your obnoxious statements, one of the most atrocious. Please go touch grass, Cake Eater. 

Quote from: The Rancor on March 21, 2026, 07:12:09 AM

Quote from: BearLover on March 20, 2026, 03:31:09 PM

Quote from: The Rancor on March 20, 2026, 01:28:45 PM

Quote from: Old Red on March 20, 2026, 01:13:02 PM

Quote from: adamw on March 20, 2026, 01:01:07 PM

Quote from: BearLover on March 20, 2026, 12:54:40 PM

Quote from: adamw on March 20, 2026, 12:47:49 PMWhat do you all think happens with the "Jack Parker Fund" at BU's NIL Collective?

They raise money for knitting classes.

https://www.scarlettcommonwealth.org/general-9

This whole thread is hilarious to anyone out there.

I would imagine it is very similar to other NIL collectives in that it raises money to make NIL payments to players. Could be anywhere from $0 to $1bn. But the collective's existence on its own means very little. I would further imagine that a donor who chooses to give to this collective would have donated to BU hockey regardless, so in effect the money is simply being shifted from other uses within the hockey team, whether coaches' salaries, nutrition, facilities, travel, etc.

that may or may not be true - but how is that relevant? All schools are in the process of creatively figuring out ways to raise more money. Shifting, begging donors to do more, turning over every rock. Whatever. This is happening across every sport, every school, everywhere.  There's a new story every day about how some donor stepped up and gave X,Y,Z to this program or that.  Lake Superior State - of all places - announced that someone was donating $1 million to its hockey program. Next thing you know - they stole a recruit from an ECAC school by offering $50,000 to switch commitments.

whether this is harmful, helpful, no big deal, or whatever - that's an opinion. All I'm telling you is - it's happening.

If some of the Ivy League schools and non-Ivy ECAC schools would opt-in - or be allowed to opt-in ... any one of their many billionaire alums could dump $100 million into their pot - and use it to pay players. At the moment - not allowed. But this is happening all over.

And it's all relative. I mean, St. John's basketball suddenly got good again because a major billionaire decided to dump wads of cash in. About $4 to $5 million per year.  That kind of level of cash wasn't being donated to the St. John's basketball program before.  But this guy wanted to help buy players.  He wasn't donating to buy sneakers before.

https://www.sportsbusinessjournal.com/Articles/2025/03/14/inside-the-billionaire-nil-donor-behind-st-johns-basketball-success/

So - this is - and will - continue to happen, at various levels everywhere. Including college hockey.

BearLover, Adam has a very strong point.  Seems to me there is only one approach that will work:  put up or shut up!  Donate $1 millions to the Cornell Hockey team or we will all suffer the consequences of lost national titles.

Or, he can give all of us 7 grand, since it is so insignificant.

That's obviously not what I said. The  point is that in the scheme of $100K cost of attendance, $7K isn't a deal-breaker. And it's a lot less than what most rumors suggest.   

This might be, of all your obnoxious statements, one of the most atrocious. Please go touch grass, Cake Eater. 

Please enlighten me on what's so bad about my statement. As someone who personally benefitted from financial aid and took out loans to attend school, I'd love to know what makes my post "one of the most atrocious."

Quote from: BearLover on March 21, 2026, 07:17:01 AMPlease enlighten me on what's so bad about my statement. As someone who personally benefitted from financial aid and took out loans to attend school, I'd love to know what makes my post "one of the most atrocious."

well, I'd put that comment only about 237th on the list of most atrocious, so no worries.

Like I said - I am not here to argue opinions on the relative value or merit of any of these awards - only to counter factually untrue statements, so that at least everyone can discuss based on reality.

That said - I think you're underselling the impact. Where did you get $7,000 from? Earlier you said $300,000/30 players = $10,000 each.  Well, BU has less than 30 players - but more importantly, that's not really how it's working. I also don't know the exact figure - that's a guesstimate. I do know the Boisvert figure was around $50,000. So you can extrapolate from that that obviously there are some players who get well above the average, and some don't get anything.  So again - look at it from that lens, at least, while you argue/discuss what kind of impact that has.

I mean, not everyone on Penn State got McKenna's $700,000 - which, from what I can gather, is real. Though it's still questionable, given his immigration status, if/when/how he will actually collect. Some of that is NIL and some of that is rev share. And the specifics are still murky.

To address another comment - there will be stuff in the article about the Ivies - but BL is correct that we pretty much know all they can do at this point.

I am still curious how Boisvert (or McKenna) would get NIL as a non-US resident. Sounds like Adam has the same question.

The $7K was $300K divided by 30 roster spots, after taxes. (I don't know how NIL is taxed though.) That was just an estimate. Maybe BU has 28 rather than 30 roster spots, maybe the tax math is off.

This is a topic for the offseason but if BU is only spending $300K then I believe Cornell could definitely match or exceed that if alumni organized. Anybody here know Cornell hockey's budget and fundraising numbers in a typical year?

And no, The Rancor, I cannot fund the Cornell Hockey NIL Collective myself. You calling me an elitist is frankly the stupidest criticism I've received on this website lmao. I would, however, donate $100.

Quote from: BearLover on March 22, 2026, 09:15:35 PMI am still curious how Boisvert (or McKenna) would get NIL as a non-US resident. Sounds like Adam has the same question.

The $7K was $300K divided by 30 roster spots, after taxes. (I don't know how NIL is taxed though.) That was just an estimate. Maybe BU has 28 rather than 30 roster spots, maybe the tax math is off.

This is a topic for the offseason but if BU is only spending $300K then I believe Cornell could definitely match or exceed that if alumni organized. Anybody here know Cornell hockey's budget and fundraising numbers in a typical year?

And no, The Rancor, I cannot fund the Cornell Hockey NIL Collective myself. You calling me an elitist is frankly the stupidest criticism I've received on this website lmao. I would, however, donate $100.

I think that $300k number will go up once they opt in. BC is definitely way above that, and anything BU does will be to keep up with BC.

I do have a lot of questions about NIL/rev-share/and Canadians. I've asked many people, and it's still murky. The best I ever get is "there are ways."

I wish Ben Robinson all the best, definitely miss him, though I wouldn't give up XV for him. But honestly, can you blame him for transferring to Michigan? He was 5'11" at Cornell... and now he's magically 6'1"!

Cornell, to be fair, can compete with a lot—we've got the best fans in college hockey, character-building Ithaca weather, waterfalls, gorges, CTB, Slope Day, Andy from The Office, and we literally put a pumpkin on the bell tower. But Michigan doesn't just offer private jets. They've got a full-on height development program. Sigh. Check it out:

https://cornellbigred.com/sports/mens-ice-hockey/roster/ben-robertson/77785

https://mgoblue.com/sports/mens-ice-hockey/roster/ben-robertson/27327

Nota Bene: Robinson's six-pound weight gain? Not impressed. I can knock that out in a week, less if I'm in France, without even trying.

Quote from: Snowball on March 24, 2026, 12:35:28 AMI wish Ben Robinson all the best, definitely miss him, though I wouldn't give up XV for him. But honestly, can you blame him for transferring to Michigan? He was 5'11" at Cornell... and now he's magically 6'1"!

6'1"?! Soaking wet, maybe.

Quote from: Beeeej on March 24, 2026, 09:30:16 AM

Quote from: Snowball on March 24, 2026, 12:35:28 AMI wish Ben Robinson all the best, definitely miss him, though I wouldn't give up XV for him. But honestly, can you blame him for transferring to Michigan? He was 5'11" at Cornell... and now he's magically 6'1"!

6'1"?! Soaking wet, maybe.

He had to put all that under the table money somewhere. Sounds like he stuffed it in his shoes.

Quote from: Beeeej on March 24, 2026, 09:30:16 AM

Quote from: Snowball on March 24, 2026, 12:35:28 AMI wish Ben Robinson all the best, definitely miss him, though I wouldn't give up XV for him. But honestly, can you blame him for transferring to Michigan? He was 5'11" at Cornell... and now he's magically 6'1"!

6'1"?! Soaking wet, maybe.

Didn't know that would make you taller.

How does that happen?

Too much water stretches the bones, perhaps? ;D

Quote from: andyw2100 on March 24, 2026, 09:38:09 AM

Quote from: Beeeej on March 24, 2026, 09:30:16 AM

Quote from: Snowball on March 24, 2026, 12:35:28 AMI wish Ben Robinson all the best, definitely miss him, though I wouldn't give up XV for him. But honestly, can you blame him for transferring to Michigan? He was 5'11" at Cornell... and now he's magically 6'1"!

6'1"?! Soaking wet, maybe.

He had to put all that under the table money somewhere. Sounds like he stuffed it in his shoes.

Sadly, the money is no longer UNDER the table. It's above it - with blinking lights.

Quote from: adamw on March 24, 2026, 09:53:47 AM

Quote from: andyw2100 on March 24, 2026, 09:38:09 AM

Quote from: Beeeej on March 24, 2026, 09:30:16 AM

Quote from: Snowball on March 24, 2026, 12:35:28 AMI wish Ben Robinson all the best, definitely miss him, though I wouldn't give up XV for him. But honestly, can you blame him for transferring to Michigan? He was 5'11" at Cornell... and now he's magically 6'1"!

6'1"?! Soaking wet, maybe.

He had to put all that under the table money somewhere. Sounds like he stuffed it in his shoes.

Sadly, the money is no longer UNDER the table. It's above it - with blinking lights.

Maybe they're counting the blinking light in his height.