... dare I say it ... third.
Granted, it's an even less likely scenario than someone getting a B-minus at Harvard, but it is a possibility.
Current standings:
3. Union 37 Plays Cornell and Colgate
Colgate 37 Plays at RPI and at Union
5. Dartmouth 33 Plays at Brown and at Yale
Cornell 33 Plays at Union and at RPI
(note that Union currently has 11 league wins and Cornell has 9. This will matter later.)
If:
Cornell wins both games in regulation
Dartmouth does not get 6 points
Colgate loses to RPI in regulation
Union ties Colgate and wins the shootout
Then we get this:
3. Cornell 39
Union 39
5. Colgate 38
Dartmouth 38 or fewer
Tiebreakers:
Head-to-head -- Cornell and Union would have 3 points each
League wins -- Both would have 11
Record against top 4 -- since they're tied for third, this would really be record against the top 2, Quinnipiac and Clarkson. Cornell has 4 points against those two, and Union has 0. Ding ding, Cornell takes third. (Colgate and Dartmouth have to finish behind Cornell, as the Big Red loses the head-to-head tiebreak against both)
On the other hand, the Big Red would finish seventh if they blow the weekend and Harvard picks up 6 points.
Is it only regulation wins that count in the tiebreaker? I'm guessing it must be because you say that Cornell, currently with 9, would catch Union, currently with 11, even though Union would be picking up the shootout win.
Also I'm wondering about the 9 regulation wins for Cornell. CHN shows 8, and the points totals support that.
Cornell 8-7-4-1, for 33.
Union 11-7-2-0 for 37.
What am I missing?
9 wins on USCHO.
It's almost time for my favorite post of any year.
That screenshot from USCHO shows a record of 9-7-4 for 22 points, so that's 2 points for a win and one point for a tie, which as we know is not how the ECAC is computing standings these days.
Quote from: andyw2100Is it only regulation wins that count in the tiebreaker? I'm guessing it must be because you say that Cornell, currently with 9, would catch Union, currently with 11, even though Union would be picking up the shootout win.
Regulation and overtime wins. Shootout results are not considered in the tiebreaker.
Quote from: andyw2100Also I'm wondering about the 9 regulation wins for Cornell. CHN shows 8, and the points totals support that.
Cornell 8-7-4-1, for 33.
Union 11-7-2-0 for 37.
What am I missing?
Which brings up a pet peeve -- I HATE the way CHN does standings. They list Cornell as 8-7-4-1, which is regulation wins, regulation losses, OT wins, and OT losses. The thing is, they count shootout wins as OT wins and shootout losses as OT losses, and they are NOT counted that way, either for tiebreakers or NCAA records/PWR.
The USCHO standings, though convoluted, give a clearer and more correct picture. On the standings page, Cornell is listed at 9-7-4-3-1-0 -- all wins, all losses, ties, shootout wins (not included under "all wins" ). OT wins, and OT losses.
Quote from: Give My RegardsQuote from: andyw2100Is it only regulation wins that count in the tiebreaker? I'm guessing it must be because you say that Cornell, currently with 9, would catch Union, currently with 11, even though Union would be picking up the shootout win.
Regulation and overtime wins. Shootout results are not considered in the tiebreaker.
Quote from: andyw2100Also I'm wondering about the 9 regulation wins for Cornell. CHN shows 8, and the points totals support that.
Cornell 8-7-4-1, for 33.
Union 11-7-2-0 for 37.
What am I missing?
Which brings up a pet peeve -- I HATE the way CHN does standings. They list Cornell as 8-7-4-1, which is regulation wins, regulation losses, OT wins, and OT losses. The thing is, they count shootout wins as OT wins and shootout losses as OT losses, and they are NOT counted that way, either for tiebreakers or NCAA records/PWR.
The USCHO standings, though convoluted, give a clearer and more correct picture. On the standings page, Cornell is listed at 9-7-4-3-1-0 -- all wins, all losses, ties, shootout wins (not included under "all wins" ). OT wins, and OT losses.
Thanks for the thorough explanation!
Quote from: Give My RegardsOn the standings page, Cornell is listed at 9-7-4-3-1-0 -- all wins, all losses, ties, shootout wins (not included under "all wins" ). OT wins, and OT losses.
It's too bad that ending games in ties and having a zero-sum point system were decided to be the greatest plague humanity has ever faced.
Quote from: Give My RegardsQuote from: andyw2100Is it only regulation wins that count in the tiebreaker? I'm guessing it must be because you say that Cornell, currently with 9, would catch Union, currently with 11, even though Union would be picking up the shootout win.
Regulation and overtime wins. Shootout results are not considered in the tiebreaker.
Quote from: andyw2100Also I'm wondering about the 9 regulation wins for Cornell. CHN shows 8, and the points totals support that.
Cornell 8-7-4-1, for 33.
Union 11-7-2-0 for 37.
What am I missing?
Which brings up a pet peeve -- I HATE the way CHN does standings. They list Cornell as 8-7-4-1, which is regulation wins, regulation losses, OT wins, and OT losses. The thing is, they count shootout wins as OT wins and shootout losses as OT losses, and they are NOT counted that way, either for tiebreakers or NCAA records/PWR.
The USCHO standings, though convoluted, give a clearer and more correct picture. On the standings page, Cornell is listed at 9-7-4-3-1-0 -- all wins, all losses, ties, shootout wins (not included under "all wins" ). OT wins, and OT losses.
It's listed that way because in LEAGUE standings, shootout and OT is the same. There is a whole other column on our standings page that lists national records - right next to the league records. And our Pairwise page and everywhere else shows the national record.
The USCHO standing columns of wins, losses, ties, OTW, OTL, SOW, SOL is exactly the argument for going back to Win, Loss, Tie period.
Quote from: The RancorThe USCHO standing columns of wins, losses, ties, OTW, OTL, SOW, SOL is exactly the argument for going back to Win, Loss, Tie period.
Should be obvious to everyone.
Quote from: adamwIt's listed that way because in LEAGUE standings, shootout and OT is the same. There is a whole other column on our standings page that lists national records - right next to the league records. And our Pairwise page and everywhere else shows the national record.
True, and I should have specified that my issue is with how the league standings are presented, because shootout and OT are not always the same when it comes to tiebreaking procedures, as we saw above. The ECAC and Atlantic Hockey both use "league wins in regulation AND overtime (not including shootouts)" as a tiebreaking criterion, and it's not obvious from CHN league standings which OTW were wins in the overtime period and which went to shootout.
I think the other conferences all use "league wins in regulation" as a tiebreaker, so they wouldn't have this issue.
Quote from: The RancorThe USCHO standing columns of wins, losses, ties, OTW, OTL, SOW, SOL is exactly the argument for going back to Win, Loss, Tie period.
But ties are the devil's work! They must be cast out! ::rolleyes::
Is there a method to how the first round schedule is determined? Do seeds 5+6 automatically get the Friday slots so that there's an extra day off or is it not defined?
Quote from: andyw2100That screenshot from USCHO shows a record of 9-7-4 for 22 points, so that's 2 points for a win and one point for a tie, which as we know is not how the ECAC is computing standings these days.
Quote from: and everyone else debating the way the this should be listed
or one could simply go to the league page https://ecachockey.com/standings.aspx?path=mhockey
Quote from: The RancorThe USCHO standing columns of wins, losses, ties, OTW, OTL, SOW, SOL is exactly the argument for going back to Win, Loss, Tie period.
They were so averse to having a game end in a tie that they invented a system with
fourfive different kinds of ties. (Non-conference games can end in a tie with no shootout.)
Quote from: Give My RegardsQuote from: adamwIt's listed that way because in LEAGUE standings, shootout and OT is the same. There is a whole other column on our standings page that lists national records - right next to the league records. And our Pairwise page and everywhere else shows the national record.
True, and I should have specified that my issue is with how the league standings are presented, because shootout and OT are not always the same when it comes to tiebreaking procedures, as we saw above. The ECAC and Atlantic Hockey both use "league wins in regulation AND overtime (not including shootouts)" as a tiebreaking criterion, and it's not obvious from CHN league standings which OTW were wins in the overtime period and which went to shootout.
I think the other conferences all use "league wins in regulation" as a tiebreaker, so they wouldn't have this issue.
The standings also don't include record against the top 4 and top 8, so it's not like they capture all tie-breaker information, only the record needed to compute the points in the standings.
I think the record for most complicated point system is the English cricket County Championship, which has 16 points for a win, 8 points for a tie or draw, plus up to 5 batting and 3 bowling bonus points for each team scoring certain numbers of runs or taking certain numbers of wickets in the first part of the match, minus penalty points if you do naughty things like have your ground staff prepare an inadequate playing surface. It was even more fun a couple of years ago when a tie was worth 8 points and a draw only 5 (tie=the team batting last are all out with the scores level; draw=the four days of playing time end without a result), except if the game ended in a draw with the scores level, the team batting last got 8 points and the other team got 5.