Keep the momentum going from the Harvard game.
A win would be big for pairwise and for ECAC. They won against us in their barn, time to return the favor.
Beware of the let down
Quote from: VIEWfromKBeware of the let down
Schafer post-game quote included a bit where he talked about the difficulty of the transition from Harvard to Dartmouth. "They do everything differently..."
Quote from: ugarteQuote from: VIEWfromKBeware of the let down
Schafer post-game quote included a bit where he talked about the difficulty of the transition from Harvard to Dartmouth. "They do everything differently..."
They have a very good PP this year.
I. Need. 3. Points.
Over/under for the time the ESPN+ videos feed kicks in? I'm going to be extremely optimistic and guess 7:11.
Quote from: TrotskyOver/under for the time the ESPN+ videos feed kicks in? I'm going to be extremely optimistic and guess 7:11.
7:02!
Quote from: TrotskyOver/under for the time the ESPN+ videos feed kicks in? I'm going to be extremely optimistic and guess 7:11.
7:02. Well, I never.
Hey how about some defensive help for Shane???
Quote from: TrotskyHey how about some defensive help for Shane???
ANY...
Terrible start
Quote from: stereaxQuote from: TrotskyHey how about some defensive help for Shane???
ANY...
Bancroft did let out a LOUD fuck when he got to the bench, lol
Quote from: arugulaTerrible start
We're consistently a step behind. Way too many turnovers, and one of them leads to a Cornell penalty.
D forecheck is relentless. That. Do that.
Excellent kill anyway.
I have always liked Cashman. These seem like mirror image teams. I felt like that in LP (http://www.tbrw.info/seasons/2024/box20240322.pdf) too.
Can our PP look like our PK? Please.
Looks good so far anyway.
Spiffy stick move but called offside. Mrr.
Penney getting progressively more time every period.
This is one of my favorite contrasts of sweaters. Both classic.
4 on 4. Stanley got rough with a dart.
The 2x Shane controlled the puck there during and right after the pp were big.
Quote from: stereax4 on 4. Stanley got rough with a dart.
Bancroft to Stanley: "don't take no shit!"
Quote from: stereax4 on 4. Stanley got rough with a dart.
Flounder Dorman in the box for Dartmouth
FOR THE LOVE OF GOD WOULD THE DEFENSE PLEASE CHECK INTO THIS GAME?
Could have been a lot worse. Would be cool if we remembered we could score tho.
OK on the one hand, a top tier team would have ripped us. On the other, we are well within this and we can come out and take the cheese.
I wish they had given Penney a penalty shot.
Quote from: stereax4 on 4. Stanley got rough with a dart.
Someone in the last Princeton game thread asked was wondering who were the instigators of the chippiness in that game. Stanley was definitely one of them if not the biggest one, and it's happening again to a lesser extent this game so far
Pp looks better.
Quote from: IcebergQuote from: stereax4 on 4. Stanley got rough with a dart.
Someone in the last Princeton game thread asked was wondering who were the instigators of the chippiness in that game. Stanley was definitely one of them if not the biggest one, and it's happening again to a lesser extent this game so far
The game is definitely chippy. Too many shoves after the whistle. Bad idea.
Quote from: TrotskyOK on the one hand, a top tier team would have ripped us. On the other, we are well within this and we can come out and take the cheese.
I think the boys woke up after the GA. I def think we can take this one.
Quote from: iceI wish they had given Penney a penalty shot.
Yeah it was one of those where they don't give it to you but he had a clear path to the net.
That was a bad period.
But as far as bad periods go, it was pretty good.
Quote from: stereaxQuote from: TrotskyOK on the one hand, a top tier team would have ripped us. On the other, we are well within this and we can come out and take the cheese.
I think the boys woke up after the GA. I def think we can take this one.
Agree.
Quote from: DafatoneThat was a bad period.
But as far as bad periods go, it was pretty good.
100%
Penalty 13 seconds in, killed. Catalano needed his laces cut off and retied, which is what I was watching though, haha.
Ohhh boy. It's gonna be one of those nights.
OK guys. Reset. Go after them.
That is 3 quality takeaways by Castagna the last 2 shifts. He does a lot more than score.
Watching Jack O'Leary leverage all of his 5'7" or something frame into a hit: hysterical.
The fact that we can't seem to maintain a possession: less hysterical.
Quote from: TrotskyOK guys. Reset. Go after them.
Hahaha... ha... ha.
THAT WAS SO LAZY!!!! dammit!
God dammit that play makes me mad.
Quote from: TrotskyGod dammit that play makes me mad.
I am so glad the guys in front of me are blocking my view of Shane's net rn or I'd be screaming.
Quote from: TrotskyTHAT WAS SO LAZY!!!! dammit!
Yep, Robertson flipped a bouncing puck that Bancroft fumbled, leading to that 3rd Dartmouth goal. Dartmouth is dominating all over the ice. You'd think we're playing BC tonight.
Quote from: stereaxQuote from: TrotskyGod dammit that play makes me mad.
I am so glad the guys in front of me are blocking my view of Shane's net rn or I'd be screaming.
They will switch with you and let you in front, if only to check you out. You are a girl. This is the unviersally-observed custom of all human history. Just ask.
Why does Dartmouth always look like BC against us? Rather why do we let Dartmouth look like BC against us?
Quote from: scoop85Quote from: TrotskyTHAT WAS SO LAZY!!!! dammit!
Yep, Robertson flipped a bouncing puck that Bancroft fumbled, leading to that 3rd Dartmouth goal. Dartmouth is dominating all over the ice. You'd think we're playing BC tonight.
What the fuck does Robertson even do? Genuinely, I don't remember the last time I ever though "well thank god Robertson's on the ice"...
Quote from: TrotskyQuote from: stereaxQuote from: TrotskyGod dammit that play makes me mad.
I am so glad the guys in front of me are blocking my view of Shane's net rn or I'd be screaming.
They will switch with you and let you in front, if only to check you out. You are a girl. This is the unviersally-observed custom of all human history. Just ask.
Pass, LMAOOOO. I like my seat anyway haha
FUCK YEAH WE GOT ONE FEGARAS
YAY!!!!!
Quote from: scoop85Quote from: TrotskyTHAT WAS SO LAZY!!!! dammit!
Yep, Robertson flipped a bouncing puck that Bancroft fumbled, leading to that 3rd Dartmouth goal. Dartmouth is dominating all over the ice. You'd think we're playing BC tonight.
I swear I made my post before reading this.
Quote from: RichHQuote from: scoop85Quote from: TrotskyTHAT WAS SO LAZY!!!! dammit!
Yep, Robertson flipped a bouncing puck that Bancroft fumbled, leading to that 3rd Dartmouth goal. Dartmouth is dominating all over the ice. You'd think we're playing BC tonight.
I swear I made my post before reading this.
Keep posting...
I would really like to see some Lynah Pressure here.
Lynah Fan Favorite Jack O'Leary gets a student section chant for...breaking the puck out successfully?
Speaking of someone who's ALWAYS in the right place at the right time, Psenicka draws a tripping penalty off a drive to the net on an O'Leary pass. God I love those two.
Quote from: sah67Lynah Fan Favorite Jack O'Leary gets a student section chant for...breaking the puck out successfully?
He's a fan fave. Gets chants for breathing.
Yes.
Audio has disappeared for me, perhaps as a courtesy.
Quote from: TrotskyYes.
Audio has disappeared for me, perhaps as a courtesy.
Trust, you might hear me screaming for the team to get its shit together haha. Limp pp. Nice shift off it. Stop the dump and chase.
Quote from: stereaxSpeaking of someone who's ALWAYS in the right place at the right time, Psenicka
Speaking of. Right
there. Just missed.
Keep digging, lads.
Wow, I have never heard Grady so critical of the team's effort. It sounds like he and Topher are genuinely disappointed.
SLU up on Clarkson, that could help, particularly if we can pull our head out.
Quote from: TrotskyWow, I have never heard Grady so critical of the team's effort. It sounds like he and Topher are genuinely disappointed.
That's Tim Vanini, although Topher Scott could also be disappointed.
No question about it
We will need some luck.
Quote from: RichHQuote from: TrotskyWow, I have never heard Grady so critical of the team's effort. It sounds like he and Topher are genuinely disappointed.
That's Tim Vanini.
No question about it
Sorry, I have conflated them into the same guy.
"Dorfman?"
"We need the dues."
Well Jesus Christ on a rusty skate blade, that period was shit.
Quote from: TrotskyQuote from: stereaxSpeaking of someone who's ALWAYS in the right place at the right time, Psenicka
Speaking of. Right there. Just missed.
Keep digging, lads.
The back end of the period looked better than the front, again. I need them to stop remembering they're playing a hockey game only after they get scored on. A full solid 20 here can def tie us.
Hmm. Do I go to insomnia cookies after the game and get a warm cookie or just haul my ass to the nearest bus stop at Sage... decisions, decisions. Is it snowing? Might be. Ugh.
Another game, another aggressive forecheck that completely throws them.
And I don't know how many tic-tac-toe passing plays Dartmouth can run before Cornell realizes they should stop them.
But for the one Dartmouth lapse leading to the Fegaras goal, we did pretty much nothing. During our power play the puck was held along the boards and Dartmouth routinely won the puck battles and cleared the zone. While it's right to question our performance, credit to Dartmouth for bringing their "A" game.
Let's see if we can pop one early in the 3rd to change the narrative.
I'm troubled by effort. I never say that but on a pp when the puck is on the boards you always have the extra skater so you should always win the puck. Lost board battles on the pp is unacceptable.
Quote from: arugulaI'm troubled by effort. I never say that but on a pp when the puck is on the boards you always have the extra skater so you should always win the puck. Lost board battles on the pp is unacceptable.
Yep, pretty much my point without saying it as directly as you.
Quote from: RichHAnother game, another aggressive forecheck that completely throws them.
DU in 2024. BU in 2023. Q seemingly always.
Passivity is the new smoking.
Scream. Why.
10 from Dartmouth got hit hard, holding face. Of course, Lynah is cheering. Dicks.
Quote from: stereax10 from Dartmouth got hit hard, holding face. Of course, Lynah is cheering. Dicks.
There will always be a surfeit of apes. Witness our politics. FTL and split.
Quote from: TrotskyQuote from: stereax10 from Dartmouth got hit hard, holding face. Of course, Lynah is cheering. Dicks.
There will always be a surfeit of apes. Witness our politics. FTL and split.
FTL and split?
Quote from: stereaxQuote from: TrotskyQuote from: stereax10 from Dartmouth got hit hard, holding face. Of course, Lynah is cheering. Dicks.
There will always be a surfeit of apes. Witness our politics. FTL and split.
FTL and split?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alcubierre_drive
Getting pretty chippy...Bancroft seems like he's plotting to take a major before the game is over.
Quote from: TrotskyQuote from: stereaxQuote from: TrotskyQuote from: stereax10 from Dartmouth got hit hard, holding face. Of course, Lynah is cheering. Dicks.
There will always be a surfeit of apes. Witness our politics. FTL and split.
FTL and split?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alcubierre_drive
Still don't get it :') but neat...
Ping. For them. A new approach it needed.
Quote from: scoop85Quote from: arugulaI'm troubled by effort. I never say that but on a pp when the puck is on the boards you always have the extra skater so you should always win the puck. Lost board battles on the pp is unacceptable.
Yep, pretty much my point without saying it as directly as you.
I think I wrote before I saw your post. Great minds.
Someone, I think 19, sends I think our 4 (Kempf?) into the boards on an icing. Scrum results.
Quote from: stereaxSomeone, I think 19, sends I think our 4 (Kempf?) into the boards on an icing. Scrum results.
And PP for Cornell. Their 15, apologies.
I'm not even sure that was a penalty.
But I'll take it.
And SH ENG. Fuck me
Quote from: TrotskyI'm not even sure that was a penalty.
But I'll take it.
Hitting after the whistle. Sadly, textbook. Lynah unfaithful leaving already.
Quote from: stereaxQuote from: TrotskyI'm not even sure that was a penalty.
But I'll take it.
Hitting after the whistle. Sadly, textbook. Lynah unfaithful leaving already.
6-1. I see why...
Wow, what am I witnessing. This team has fallen apart
At least it's just one loss.
Regroup. This was shit but. Regroup.
Quote from: stereaxAnd SH ENG. Fuck me
With a 6-4 why would you take a point shot? That should never ever happen. With a 6-4 how can there be no one open and no space. This is astonishing.
On the needless instigation front, Catalano now trying to show Dartmouth how tough he is.
I'm yelling at these idiots for trying to scrum and taking dumb penalties. The crowd is enamored. Hey, coinciding minors?
Quote from: arugulaQuote from: stereaxAnd SH ENG. Fuck me
With a 6-4 why would you take a point shot? That should never ever happen. With a 6-4 how can there be no one open and no space. This is astonishing.
I don't understand, man
Let's not get any DQs for the North Country trip please.
Quote from: TrotskyAt least it's just one loss.
Regroup. This was shit but. Regroup.
I need every one of these players to play chel until they win like, 50-1 against this team, and then we will never talk of it again. And get it the fuck together. Christ alive, that was a terrible fucking effort.
Kovich in the box too. No idea why. Catalano and friend from Dartmouth trapped in box.
Delayed penalty on Cornell, Dartmouth pulled goalie.
I think we should give Ian Shane a gun
Quote from: stereaxKovich in the box too. No idea why. Catalano and friend from Dartmouth trapped in box.
He took a retaliatory chop at a Dartmouth player's thigh right in front of the ref.
Quote from: stereaxDelayed penalty on Cornell, Dartmouth pulled goalie.
Stanley AND Walsh in the box. Yippee.
Quote from: VIEWfromKBeware of the let down
Forget it Jake. It's always Dartmouth.
Quote from: sah67Quote from: stereaxKovich in the box too. No idea why. Catalano and friend from Dartmouth trapped in box.
He took a retaliatory chop at a Dartmouth player's thigh right in front of the ref.
Didn't see it. Dartmouth goalie is playing with the crowd with bending over. Legend tbh.
Welp. Fantastic game for the PK.
And a fight to end the game. Why.
Oh.
Dartmouth decided to taunt the student section. Bench brawl. Fuck yeah.
And now a line brawl after Dartmouth decides to celebrate in front of B and taunt the students en masse.
Schafer looked like he came very close to getting physical with Carusone. CJ pulled him away.
Shane broke his stick walking out. Woof.
Quote from: sah67Schafer looked like he came very close to getting physical with Carusone. CJ pulled him away.
What does he have to lose?
It seemed like Cashman was maybe laying into his own players for that BS they pulled at the end, but it was hard to tell.
Bad game. Forget about it. Take em in Lake Placid.
Hopefully that puts a fire under the team. You can't let that shit happen.
We have had bad games. This was a bad game. The coaches will, um, inspire self-reflection.
Quote from: iceBad game. Forget about it. Take em in Lake Placid.
This.
Glad I stayed for the fight, I think Penney and oleary will get suspended which is very bad given how thin we are at forward.
Quote from: sah67It seemed like Cashman was maybe laying into his own players for that BS they pulled at the end, but it was hard to tell.
Pretty sure the seniors are Gaudet holdovers, but yeah, I'd imagine he was surprised that it escalated at the end. You just want your team to get out of there without further incident. I fully expect there to be a few suspensions
Quote from: TrotskyWe have had bad games. This was a bad game. The coaches will, um, inspire self-reflection.
Schaefer tearing the team a new one, you mean, LOL. Refs still deliberating. Won't leave until they do.
Guy in the back was saying he's never seen that shit before, I said what are they gonna do, suspend everyone, he said exactly, and I followed up with "get ready for sixty minutes of Jimmy Rayhill next game". Got a good laugh.
Quote from: chimpfoodGlad I stayed for the fight, I think Penney and oleary will get suspended which is very bad given how thin we are at forward.
The Lynah Unfaithful (section C people who dip when the score gets bad) missed the best part of the game. Sucks to be them.
Hangin out until we get the verdict. Basically just me, the coaches I think, the video staff, and a few guys clustered around Section A.
Media guy's inputting penalties and said Penney, O'Leary, and someone else. Coach asks if suspensions, media guy says they didn't say anything.
Quote from: stereaxMedia guy's inputting penalties and said Penney, O'Leary, and someone else. Coach asks if suspensions, media guy says they didn't say anything.
"How bad is it? Fifteen?"
14.
5 Dartmouth, 9 Cornell. 3 fights each side.
3, 23, 86?
Wouldn't be surprised to see Schafer get at least an unsportsmanlike.
Still waitin for the official verdict, ahaha.
Sounds like the refs left, but the Cornell bench was told to stay here...
Live stats is showing 10 minute miscondcucts for five players on each team, and then additional minor roughing calls for Penney and DeSantis and two Dartmouth players.
Penney, O'Leary, Stanley. Dq
Does that come with auto suspension?
"The guy who scored the game winner, he goes right over to Krafty and goes like this" [mimics a guy flexing his biceps directly in other coach's face] - Schaefer, I think
Quote from: arugulaPenney, O'Leary, Stanley. Dq
Does that come with auto suspension?
That is my understanding.
Sending video I think to the NCAA... so they're not saying anything in terms of action. Informally, 3 players on each team will likely be suspended, but they're not gonna make the decision, I think.
Quote from: stereax"The guy who scored the game winner, he goes right over to Krafty and goes like this" [mimics a guy flexing his biceps directly in other coach's face] - Schaefer, I think
I definitely saw that, but I think an argument could be made that the guy was flexing to his teammates and Kraft happened to be in the way.
At least that's what I thought at the time, since I was surprised that Kraft (or anyone else) had no reaction to the "flex".
Only dropped one spot in pwr.
Quote from: stereaxSending video I think to the NCAA... so they're not saying anything in terms of action. Informally, 3 players on each team will likely be suspended, but they're not gonna make the decision, I think.
So no report tonight, officially. Heading out. Had a nice chat with some Dartmouth fans, now gonna wait a few before I head out so I don't freeze to death waiting for the bus.
The CHN box score is now showing the penalties roughly along the lines of what stereax reported:
https://www.collegehockeynews.com/box/livebox.php?vc=dar&hc=cor
Quote from: stereaxQuote from: stereaxSending video I think to the NCAA... so they're not saying anything in terms of action. Informally, 3 players on each team will likely be suspended, but they're not gonna make the decision, I think.
So no report tonight, officially. Heading out. Had a nice chat with some Dartmouth fans, now gonna wait a few before I head out so I don't freeze to death waiting for the bus.
And cue project "standing in the halls at Lynah avoiding eye contact with every young man in a suit cause I'm pretty sure they all want to punch me for the shit I give them". So far, pretty good success.
Finally on the bus home. Final stereupdate of the night: The guys I saw heading out looked like they were in mostly good spirits. Obviously bummed about the loss but not too upset. I think the fight did a lot for team morale.
Where do we even go from here? It's clear that the coaching staff sees Shane as our guy, he got both games this weekend even after a good keopple performance vs Princeton. After another letdown day from Shane will they be so not trusting in keopple that they still give Ian the clarkson game on Friday? How are we even gonna dress enough players for that game with suspensions coming? We are at genuine risk of not getting a bye in the ECAC tournament and we're looking like a worse team than we started as. God, at least basketball beat princeton.
Quote from: chimpfoodanother letdown day from Shane
The entire team was garbage, I don't think it's fair to pin it on Shane, especially after a rock solid game vs Harvard. Would like to see another Keopple start though.
Quote from: stereaxQuote from: chimpfoodanother letdown day from Shane
The entire team was garbage, I don't think it's fair to pin it on Shane, especially after a rock solid game vs Harvard. Would like to see another Keopple start though.
5 goals allowed on 29 shots is really bad, no matter the context. And hes been poor all season so im sure not gonna make excuses for him
Quote from: chimpfoodQuote from: stereaxQuote from: chimpfoodanother letdown day from Shane
The entire team was garbage, I don't think it's fair to pin it on Shane, especially after a rock solid game vs Harvard. Would like to see another Keopple start though.
5 goals allowed on 29 shots is really bad, no matter the context. And hes been poor all season so im sure not gonna make excuses for him
Hasn't been great, no, but the defense did him zero favors, and saying otherwise is inaccurate at best.
Well. That was on the nose.
Be fun to see Dartmouth in the playoffs at least.
Quote from: chimpfoodWhere do we even go from here? It's clear that the coaching staff sees Shane as our guy, he got both games this weekend even after a good keopple performance vs Princeton. After another letdown day from Shane will they be so not trusting in keopple that they still give Ian the clarkson game on Friday? How are we even gonna dress enough players for that game with suspensions coming? We are at genuine risk of not getting a bye in the ECAC tournament and we're looking like a worse team than we started as. God, at least basketball beat princeton.
Friday is SLU. I could see Keopple getting the start there
Quote from: IcebergQuote from: chimpfoodWhere do we even go from here? It's clear that the coaching staff sees Shane as our guy, he got both games this weekend even after a good keopple performance vs Princeton. After another letdown day from Shane will they be so not trusting in keopple that they still give Ian the clarkson game on Friday? How are we even gonna dress enough players for that game with suspensions coming? We are at genuine risk of not getting a bye in the ECAC tournament and we're looking like a worse team than we started as. God, at least basketball beat princeton.
Friday is SLU. I could see Keopple getting the start there
We'll also be down like 3 or so skaters to suspensions...
Quote from: IcebergQuote from: chimpfoodWhere do we even go from here? It's clear that the coaching staff sees Shane as our guy, he got both games this weekend even after a good keopple performance vs Princeton. After another letdown day from Shane will they be so not trusting in keopple that they still give Ian the clarkson game on Friday? How are we even gonna dress enough players for that game with suspensions coming? We are at genuine risk of not getting a bye in the ECAC tournament and we're looking like a worse team than we started as. God, at least basketball beat princeton.
Friday is SLU. I could see Keopple getting the start there
Youre right, not sure why I had that backwards. That makes it easier, start keopple Friday and the starter Saturday depends on his performance. Also helps that we should be able to gut out a win against SLU even if a few guys get suspended (hopefully just one game but who knows).
Quote from: stereaxQuote from: chimpfoodQuote from: stereaxQuote from: chimpfoodanother letdown day from Shane
The entire team was garbage, I don't think it's fair to pin it on Shane, especially after a rock solid game vs Harvard. Would like to see another Keopple start though.
5 goals allowed on 29 shots is really bad, no matter the context. And hes been poor all season so im sure not gonna make excuses for him
Hasn't been great, no, but the defense did him zero favors, and saying otherwise is inaccurate at best.
Agreed. All game Tim Vanini talked about how they were getting beaten in the corners by Dartmouth. They were not skating like an inspired team, more like they had poured it all out the night before with Harvard. We used to be able to get away with that when Dartmouth sucked. They don't suck anymore.
Quote from: pjd8Quote from: stereaxQuote from: chimpfoodQuote from: stereaxQuote from: chimpfoodanother letdown day from Shane
The entire team was garbage, I don't think it's fair to pin it on Shane, especially after a rock solid game vs Harvard. Would like to see another Keopple start though.
5 goals allowed on 29 shots is really bad, no matter the context. And hes been poor all season so im sure not gonna make excuses for him
Hasn't been great, no, but the defense did him zero favors, and saying otherwise is inaccurate at best.
Agreed. All game Tim Vanini talked about how they were getting beaten in the corners by Dartmouth. They were not skating like an inspired team, more like they had poured it all out the night before with Harvard. We used to be able to get away with that when Dartmouth sucked. They don't suck anymore.
Would NOT be surprised if that were the case, that they left it all out for Harvard and were exhausted. Felt like they just couldn't keep up. There were periods where we couldn't maintain possession for minutes at a time. Just a terrible night.
Jane McNally got a few post-game comments from Schafer. He confirmed that he "put hands on" Carusone and expects that he may get suspended as well:
https://cornellsun.com/2025/01/25/brawl-ensues-after-dartmouth-thrashes-mens-hockey-6-1/
Quote from: sah67Jane McNally got a few post-game comments from Schafer. He confirmed that he "put hands on" Carusone and expects that he may get suspended as well:
https://cornellsun.com/2025/01/25/brawl-ensues-after-dartmouth-thrashes-mens-hockey-6-1/
"Brawl Ensues" is a helluva headline.
I would honestly be pissed if I was a Dartmouth fan. The goalie and the student section were having fun at the end and they come celebrate in front of us, nothing that hasn't happened before. Our guys did by far most of the initiating and fighting but both teams are set to have the same number of suspensions because hockey refs are obsessed with making everything even. Their coach came in there just trying to get his players out and ours came in screaming at the ref and touching him. It was a fun time but we kind of acted like douches there. Shoutout Hoyt Stanley who, by my untrained eye, played a horrendous game today and then picked up a suspension.
Quote from: sah67Jane McNally got a few post-game comments from Schafer. He confirmed that he "put hands on" Carusone and expects that he may get suspended as well:
https://cornellsun.com/2025/01/25/brawl-ensues-after-dartmouth-thrashes-mens-hockey-6-1/
taking a classic "going to be out of town anyway" suspension
That may have been the ugliest game I've ever seen us play. We got no offense going at all. We couldn't figure out how to get the puck into their zone. We couldn't win a face off. And every pass we made ended up on their sticks. Just fucking horrible.
I left right after the 6th goal. In 40+ years of watching Cornell Hockey, I've never left before the final horn, but I just couldn't take any more.
Such a disappointment after Friday's game.
Quote from: chimpfoodI would honestly be pissed if I was a Dartmouth fan. The goalie and the student section were having fun at the end and they come celebrate in front of us, nothing that hasn't happened before. Our guys did by far most of the initiating and fighting but both teams are set to have the same number of suspensions because hockey refs are obsessed with making everything even. Their coach came in there just trying to get his players out and ours came in screaming at the ref and touching him. It was a fun time but we kind of acted like douches there. Shoutout Hoyt Stanley who, by my untrained eye, played a horrendous game today and then picked up a suspension.
Duh
Quote from: Jeff Hopkins '82That may have been the ugliest game I've ever seen us play.
The 10-0 loss to Q in the 2013 ECAC QF's, where we also racked up 100 PIMs in the process is probably the one for me, but tonight was pretty bad.
.
Quote from: sah67Quote from: Jeff Hopkins '82That may have been the ugliest game I've ever seen us play.
The 10-0 loss to Q in the 2013 ECAC QF's, where we also racked up 100 PIMs in the process is probably the one for me, but tonight was pretty bad.
that Q team was much better than us. it was more of a surprise that the other two games were close.
Quote from: chimpfoodI would honestly be pissed if I was a Dartmouth fan. The goalie and the student section were having fun at the end and they come celebrate in front of us, nothing that hasn't happened before. Our guys did by far most of the initiating and fighting but both teams are set to have the same number of suspensions because hockey refs are obsessed with making everything even. Their coach came in there just trying to get his players out and ours came in screaming at the ref and touching him. It was a fun time but we kind of acted like douches there. Shoutout Hoyt Stanley who, by my untrained eye, played a horrendous game today and then picked up a suspension.
You are right here. Dartmouth was the better team tonight. We should not have picked that fight. A bad look that has consequences.
Quote from: ugarteQuote from: sah67Quote from: Jeff Hopkins '82That may have been the ugliest game I've ever seen us play.
The 10-0 loss to Q in the 2013 ECAC QF's, where we also racked up 100 PIMs in the process is probably the one for me, but tonight was pretty bad.
that Q team was much better than us. it was more of a surprise that the other two games were close.
Harvard beats us 11-3 at Lynah December 1985. Schaf shoots puck at Cleary. That was the nadir for me.
Win the next game and we defuse 67% of this feeling.
The program is fine. We are being influenced by external factors.
We will be okay. In both senses. The latter will, admittedly, be more fraught.
Cornell eventually triumphs. Nazis are eventually all ground into the soil.
The latter will, admittedly, be more fraught.
Quote from: TrotskyWin the next game and we defuse 67% of this feeling.
The program is fine. We are being influenced by external factors.
We will be okay. In both senses. The latter will, admittedly, be more fraught.
Cornell eventually triumphs. Nazis are eventually all ground into the soil.
The latter will, admittedly, be more fraught.
.
Quote from: SnowballQuote from: chimpfoodI would honestly be pissed if I was a Dartmouth fan. The goalie and the student section were having fun at the end and they come celebrate in front of us, nothing that hasn't happened before. Our guys did by far most of the initiating and fighting but both teams are set to have the same number of suspensions because hockey refs are obsessed with making everything even. Their coach came in there just trying to get his players out and ours came in screaming at the ref and touching him. It was a fun time but we kind of acted like douches there. Shoutout Hoyt Stanley who, by my untrained eye, played a horrendous game today and then picked up a suspension.
You are right here. Dartmouth was the better team tonight. We should not have picked that fight. A bad look that has consequences.
I'm gonna disagree tbh. Logically, awful fight, bad idea, everyone's an idiot. But you
can't let Dartmouth run you out of your own building and then let them gloat in front of your most ardent fans about it. You gotta answer the bell for your idiocy.
Chatted with a Dartmouth fan after the game, he wasn't too thrilled about the suspensions incoming either. We both agreed that the Dartmouth post-game "celebration" was a bad idea but that the Cornell reaction was also a bad idea in the context of both teams struggling to stay in top 20 pairwise.
I did like how the Dartmouth goalie was fuckin with us at the end there, playing along with the students' bend over chants and then leaning on his crossbar all nonchalant. Points to him.
Quote from: arugulaQuote from: ugarteQuote from: sah67Quote from: Jeff Hopkins '82That may have been the ugliest game I've ever seen us play.
The 10-0 loss to Q in the 2013 ECAC QF's, where we also racked up 100 PIMs in the process is probably the one for me, but tonight was pretty bad.
that Q team was much better than us. it was more of a surprise that the other two games were close.
Harvard beats us 11-3 at Lynah December 1985. Schaf shoots puck at Cleary. That was the nadir for me.
I went to this (http://www.tbrw.info/seasons/1998/box19980206.pdf) one.
That never happened.
Let's just say, in the storied path of Cornell hockey, tonight will leave no imprint.
Just fucking get to fucking LP. This is not a difficult concept.
Quote from: arugulaOnly dropped one spot in pwr.
Irrelevant. We are locked out of an at-large bid.
Quote from: RichH"Brawl Ensues" is a helluva headline.
I dunno, but if we ever form a band...
Quote from: chimpfoodWhere do we even go from here? It's clear that the coaching staff sees Shane as our guy, he got both games this weekend even after a good keopple performance vs Princeton. After another letdown day from Shane will they be so not trusting in keopple that they still give Ian the clarkson game on Friday? How are we even gonna dress enough players for that game with suspensions coming? We are at genuine risk of not getting a bye in the ECAC tournament and we're looking like a worse team than we started as. God, at least basketball beat princeton.
It's weird you are singling out Shane when the entire team looked outmatched. Didn't even seem to me any of the goals were that soft.
The team looked good last night against Harvard, but tonight was a complete fucking embarrassment.
Someone want to look up the last time we lost by 5+ goals at home? In 16 years of following Cornell hockey I don't ever remember seeing that. The team looks incredibly frustrated and lacking in talent. Badly outplayed by Dartmouth, a mediocre team this season and one of the worst programs in college hockey. Really never thought I'd see something like this. The absolute low point in at least ten years.
Excited for a bunch of losers to swoop in and start arguing with me that the coaches are perfect and the program is in great shape after we lost 6-1 to Dartmouth at home.
By the way, I don't blame the players for charging Dartmouth at the end. You're nuts if you think a team with any self respect is going to lie down after a 6-1 loss while the other team taunts the crowd. I blame Dartmouth for taunting the fans and the Cornell coaching staff for not controlling the players.
It really doesn't matter though. This team isn't capable of skating with Dartmouth, one of the saddest programs in college hockey. They have not made the NCAAs since literal 1980. Depressing to watch.
Quote from: BearLoverBy the way, I don't blame the players for charging Dartmouth at the end. You're nuts if you think a team with any self respect is going to lie down after a 6-1 loss while the other team taunts the crowd.
Might be the first time we agree.
Quote from: BearLoverQuote from: arugulaOnly dropped one spot in pwr.
Irrelevant. We are locked out of an at-large bid.
If we run the table until the conference final, we'd probably get an at-large bid.
That's not easy to do.
The replay is up now and I went back to look at the footage shown on the broadcast. The whole thing starts after Croteau is having some fun with the student section and then the captain, Chisholm (Gaudet holdover who happened to get ejected his first game at Lynah several years ago) waves the rest of the team over to celebrate, which obviously ignites Cornell's response. It was clear that Penney was going after guys but hard to see much of anything else from the broadcast except Cashman fervently trying to get his guys to the locker room and Schafer confronting the one referee.
A clip of the fracas filmed by someone in the front row of B that was posted on reddit seems to show DeSantis throwing multiple rabbit punches to the head of a Dartmouth player who had already been wrestled to the ice.
Wouldn't be surprised to see him end up with an additional suspension once the league takes a look.
Quote from: BearLoverBy the way, I don't blame the players for charging Dartmouth at the end. You're nuts if you think a team with any self respect is going to lie down after a 6-1 loss while the other team taunts the crowd. I blame Dartmouth for taunting the fans and the Cornell coaching staff for not controlling the players.
It really doesn't matter though. This team isn't capable of skating with Dartmouth, one of the historically saddest programs in college hockey. They have not made the NCAAs since literal 1980. Depressing to watch.
FYP. They're not very sad THIS year.
I understand the post-game mood. My take is the team was truly embarrassed and disappointed about letting down The Faithful after the euphoria of Friday night and needed to show SOMETHING in the way of love and pride back to Section A, even if in poor judgement and disastrous consequence. IMHO the Red would have better let Dartmouth enjoy themselves and skate off the ice, then go over to A for their own direct stick salute.
But hell, they're competitive, aggressive males. Understandable.
From the student section viewpoint, they take well-earned pride in their skills in taunting and getting in the heads of our opponents. The fact that Dartmouth decided to skate the length of the ice to celebrate in front of them was an acknowledgement of just how successful Section A really is. I would have loved to see the whole section in unison point at the Dartmouth players and laugh.
Quote from: TimVFrom the student section viewpoint, they take well-earned pride in their skills in taunting and getting in the heads of our opponents. The fact that Dartmouth decided to skate the length of the ice to celebrate in front of them was an acknowledgement of just how successful Section A really is. I would have loved to see the whole section in unison point at the Dartmouth players and laugh.
Maybe Cashman hired Nick Boucher as a special volunteer assistant coach! For the newbies: Boucher being the Dartmouth goalie many moons ago who vacated his net
during play to taunt Section B (and flip off the band), only to allow a Cornell "empty net" goal while he was consumed with that.
It was also fun to discover (https://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/pdisplay.php?pid=49679) that Boucher managed to rack up 26 PIMs in his one ECHL season, and another 20 PIMs (in 10GP!) in the UHL...all as a goalie. I do also caution everyone that clicking that link will display an old mugshot of Boucher, and...::yark::
I didn't look at every season, but I would guess last night was the worst home loss since Cornell lost 7-0 to Union in the ECAC first round in 2015 to end Cornell's season. It was certainly the most embarrassing since then. That was maybe the overall rock bottom during the Schafer era, but in terms of these last ten years, last night was rock bottom.
Again, I have absolutely no issues with the players brawling. They did what any self-respecting hockey team would do. I don't know how the coaches lost control of the team but it was obviously a bad mistake.
At the end of the day, the thing I'm going to remember most from the game was how bad the team looked against Dartmouth. Cornell was slower and could not break it out against Dartmouth's aggressive forecheck. On offense Cornell never had clean zone entries and never established its own forecheck. The result was the puck being carried by Dartmouth back across center ice in a flash. Cornell's PP similarly had almost zero clean zone entries; they could not break Dartmouth's pressure in the neutral zone, and the resulting dump ins were quickly cleared. I reiterate that Cornell should not be getting badly outplayed at home by a mediocre team. It really does not bode well for this Cornell team being any good or being capable of turning this season around.
I didn't like Schafer's postgame comments. First of all, he sounded resigned to being suspended. Second, he said the team was "gassed." Why is Cornell more gassed than Dartmouth, who lost a tough game at Colgate the night before? Every year we play Harvard and Dartmouth back to back and I have never seen such a sorry performance against Dartmouth. Cornell is at home this weekend getting to sleep in their own beds and the coach is making excuses that they're tired?
With regard to them being "gassed", makes no sense. Young men playing at home and playing two games a week. Possible that the injuries and the resulting lack of depth is catching up to them? But again, 21 year olds playing two games a week. Unless there are many further injuries and the guys are playing through. Otoh, what explains how well they played the night before? What explains these problems being recurrent throughout the season? Little effective forecheck, difficulty exiting and entering the zone, horrendous pp? Can't all be exhaustion.
So Harvard, who looked dead Friday, goes up to Hamilton and hammers Colgate 4-1, a night after Colgate beat Dartmouth.
As bad as last night went and as awful as we looked, we still have plenty to play for. We'll see if the team has the fortitude to figure it out next weekend, albeit with a depleted lineup Friday.
Quote from: sah67A clip of the fracas filmed by someone in the front row of B that was posted on reddit seems to show DeSantis throwing multiple rabbit punches to the head of a Dartmouth player who had already been wrestled to the ice.
Wouldn't be surprised to see him end up with an additional suspension once the league takes a look.
Here's (https://x.com/RedditCFB/status/1883374893431218610?t=v37MgkXMgowAbHRWL9urog&s=19) the video I think Sah is talking about. I got this sent to me this morning, which tells you what you need to know...
Quote from: scoop85So Harvard, who looked dead Friday, goes up to Hamilton and hammers Colgate 4-1, a night after Colgate beat Dartmouth.
As bad as last night went and as awful as we looked, we still have plenty to play for. We'll see if the team has the fortitude to figure it out next weekend, albeit with a depleted lineup Friday.
Game was bad. Agreed. Think the brawl is gonna help morale and remind Cornell they don't play for empty seats like most of the ECAC. Figure it out next weekend, pick up 5 or 6 points, and we're right back in it.
Fully admit to being a newbie with hockey. But still.
Anyone want to explain why fighting is ok in hockey but not football, basketball, baseball, soccer?
I imagine DeSantis will be suspended the longest out of anybody from what I saw on the video
Quote from: DafatoneQuote from: BearLoverQuote from: arugulaOnly dropped one spot in pwr.
Irrelevant. We are locked out of an at-large bid.
If we run the table until the conference final, we'd probably get an at-large bid.
if my grandma had wheels...
Quote from: stereaxThe entire team was garbage, I don't think it's fair to pin it on Shane, especially after a rock solid game vs Harvard.
Agreed, he made some outstanding saves or it could have been worse. Last year, Shane was the ECAC Ken Dryden Goaltender of the Year, unanimous Ivy League Player of the Year with a 1.69 goals-against average and a .923 save percentage, named semifinalist for 2024 Mike Richter Award, and nominated for the Hobey Baker. He couldn't have regressed this much, it had to be a team effort.
I'm genuinely puzzled, why has the team so underperformed this season? Did we expect too much, losing only Seger?
Quote from: IcebergI imagine DeSantis will be suspended the longest out of anybody from what I saw on the video
For sure
Quote from: Jeff Hopkins '82That may have been the ugliest game I've ever seen us play. We got no offense going at all. We couldn't figure out how to get the puck into their zone. We couldn't win a face off. And every pass we made ended up on their sticks. Just fucking horrible.
I left right after the 6th goal. In 40+ years of watching Cornell Hockey, I've never left before the final horn, but I just couldn't take any more.
Such a disappointment after Friday's game.
A very bad performance all around, although I would say Shane at least gave them a shot.
This Cornell team has some of the WORST passing I've seen. Absolutely no hustle to the puck, just stretching out with a stick instead of skating. No one skating through the body, just poke checking. A dumpster fire of a game. I hope their legs recover before next Friday, because they are going to be doing ladder sprints for a while.
Quote from: arugulaQuote from: IcebergI imagine DeSantis will be suspended the longest out of anybody from what I saw on the video
For sure
If they go off
that video. From unofficial reports it sounded like Penney, O'Leary, Stanley were going to catch suspensions.
Quote from: SnowballFully admit to being a newbie with hockey. But still.
Anyone want to explain why fighting is ok in hockey but not football, basketball, baseball, soccer?
History, really. Fighting has always been part of hockey, less so with other sports. That being said, fighting is always penalized, and at the NCAA level it's officially not allowed and you get ejected from the game for true fights (as opposed to scrums) and suspended. That also being said, this was after the game ended, so I suspect there is more discretion in how many games to give and who to suspend.
Quote from: stereaxQuote from: arugulaQuote from: IcebergI imagine DeSantis will be suspended the longest out of anybody from what I saw on the video
For sure
If they go off that video. From unofficial reports it sounded like Penney, O'Leary, Stanley were going to catch suspensions.
Well those three got Game DQs so that's an automatic 1-game suspension, but the league can add to that. DeSantis only got a 2 and a 10 from the refs, as I imagine they didn't catch what's visible on the video.
Quote from: stereaxQuote from: arugulaQuote from: IcebergI imagine DeSantis will be suspended the longest out of anybody from what I saw on the video
For sure
If they go off that video. From unofficial reports it sounded like Penney, O'Leary, Stanley were going to catch suspensions.
Yeah, definitely those three from what the refs saw and even from the fan video. You bring up an interesting point though on whether the league can rely on fan videos to make disciplinary judgments. They may not be able to, but who knows. The broadcast feed certainly didn't catch DeSantis in his antics. That said, there was a linesman covering the Dartmouth player (#23 Pierce) so I imagine the refs were told about it after the fact.
Quote from: ugarteQuote from: DafatoneQuote from: BearLoverQuote from: arugulaOnly dropped one spot in pwr.
Irrelevant. We are locked out of an at-large bid.
If we run the table until the conference final, we'd probably get an at-large bid.
if my grandma had wheels...
We've got 10 games left in the regular season. I bet 7-2-1 puts us in "if you squint there's a chance" territory.
Quote from: IcebergQuote from: stereaxQuote from: arugulaQuote from: IcebergI imagine DeSantis will be suspended the longest out of anybody from what I saw on the video
For sure
If they go off that video. From unofficial reports it sounded like Penney, O'Leary, Stanley were going to catch suspensions.
Yeah, definitely those three from what the refs saw and even from the fan video. You bring up an interesting point though on whether the league can rely on fan videos to make disciplinary judgments. They may not be able to, but who knows. The broadcast feed certainly didn't catch DeSantis in his antics. That said, there was a linesman covering the Dartmouth player (#23 Pierce) so I imagine the refs were told about it after the fact.
That's true - but again, off the unofficial it didn't sound like DeSantis was on the hook, and I assume the linesmen and refs talked within that 30 minutes or so between the time the scrum happened and the time the coaches and I finally headed out.
It'll definiy be interesting to see if fan video can be used as "evidence" though. From my admittedly AWFUL pictures, Catalano looked like he was wailing on a guy too, but I can't tell for shit. I'm sure the NCAA has more angles than we do on the fight though. Wonder when they'll levy the suspensions.
Catalano was the first guy in there and went after a few Dartmouth players, so he could definitely face a suspension. FWIW, at the end of the game in Princeton, he was involved in the scrum and the refs sent him right through the visitors' tunnel. He wasn't in the handshake line at all
Interesting to consider what would have happened 30 years ago or so. Does the league just go with whatever the refs gave? I assume no video to watch to lengthen the suspensions.
Quote from: CU2007Interesting to consider what would have happened 30 years ago or so. Does the league just go with whatever the refs gave? I assume no video to watch to lengthen the suspensions.
One of the Cornell-affiliated ladies said the league is going to review it before anything official is said. I'm assuming they have some video to watch. HIGHLY doubt their video feed would cut off the second the game ends. I know the coaches told the media guys not to turn off the camera until the refs came back out to announce the penalties, which they never did. Hold on, I got ESPN+, let me rewatch from last night.
Suda took a run at a Dart after the horn sounded... then Dart goes to celly in front of the student section... and then Cornell goes to beat em up. I think first man in is O'Leary simply due to height. Penney gets in it too. Catalano is def scrapping. There's DeSantis flipping a Dart over. Dart's starter and Keopple havin a chat, unaffected; ditto Katz, Shane, and the backup. Ondrej Psenicka is very tall. I think that's Schafer walking over. (I've been spelling it Schaefer this whole time. Fuck me.) Penney still shoving. O'Leary and Pennet helmetless. O'Leary still complaining. And then they're off, Penney and Casty share their post-game hug and scatter.
You can definitely tell who's scrapping because they WANT to (O'Leary, Penney, Catalano, DeSantis, Walsh, Stanley, Kempf, Kraft, Rego, Rayhill...) and those who are mostly there because everyone else is (Fegaras, Castagna, Robertson, Kovich, Psenicka, O'Brien...) as well as the mixed-bag guys (Suda, Mack, Bancroft...) And this is just off the ESPN feed. I'm SURE the NCAA has more cameras.
Yeah that feels reasonable. When all is said and done Cornell today will almost certainly turn out to have a path to an at-large, although it likely means 7+ wins and sweeping all road contests.
That said, I'd be shocked if they somehow managed to pull off that kind of run, so this is all kind of academic.
Quote from: George64Quote from: stereaxThe entire team was garbage, I don't think it's fair to pin it on Shane, especially after a rock solid game vs Harvard.
Agreed, he made some outstanding saves or it could have been worse. Last year, Shane was the ECAC Ken Dryden Goaltender of the Year, unanimous Ivy League Player of the Year with a 1.69 goals-against average and a .923 save percentage, named semifinalist for 2024 Mike Richter Award, and nominated for the Hobey Baker. He couldn't have regressed this much, it had to be a team effort.
I'm genuinely puzzled, why has the team so underperformed this season? Did we expect too much, losing only Seger?
I think expectations were way too high, yes. Last year's team had the potential to be competing for a national championship this year if everything went right, but that was the most optimistic scenario. Far more likely was a team around 10-12 in the nation challenging for a 2 seed on the upside and comfortably competing for a conference title and a 3 seed in the tournament.
Then came the injuries. My impression last season was last year's team wasn't like 2020 or 2003, with a top line that could compete with anybody AND a ton of depth. It was really a depth-based squad with four lines that could score and a solid but unspectacular top unit. That's not really national title material, although it puts the team in with a chance of riding a hot goaltender to glory.
The issue is it also means injuries to random middle-of-the-pack skaters cause problems, because now two different lines get messed up and the depth won't be there anymore.
So for this year's team to compete for a national title they needed someone to become Gabe Seger, which hasn't happened, and maybe an all-ECAC freshman forward, which didn't come, and at the very least a relatively injury-free season, which obviously hasn't been the case.
Quote from: Tom LentoQuote from: George64Quote from: stereaxThe entire team was garbage, I don't think it's fair to pin it on Shane, especially after a rock solid game vs Harvard.
Agreed, he made some outstanding saves or it could have been worse. Last year, Shane was the ECAC Ken Dryden Goaltender of the Year, unanimous Ivy League Player of the Year with a 1.69 goals-against average and a .923 save percentage, named semifinalist for 2024 Mike Richter Award, and nominated for the Hobey Baker. He couldn't have regressed this much, it had to be a team effort.
I'm genuinely puzzled, why has the team so underperformed this season? Did we expect too much, losing only Seger?
I think expectations were way too high, yes. Last year's team had the potential to be competing for a national championship this year if everything went right, but that was the most optimistic scenario. Far more likely was a team around 10-12 in the nation challenging for a 2 seed on the upside and comfortably competing for a conference title and a 3 seed in the tournament.
Then came the injuries. My impression last season was last year's team wasn't like 2020 or 2003, with a top line that could compete with anybody AND a ton of depth. It was really a depth-based squad with four lines that could score and a solid but unspectacular top unit. That's not really national title material, although it puts the team in with a chance of riding a hot goaltender to glory.
The issue is it also means injuries to random middle-of-the-pack skaters cause problems, because now two different lines get messed up and the depth won't be there anymore.
So for this year's team to compete for a national title they needed someone to become Gabe Seger, which hasn't happened, and maybe an all-ECAC freshman forward, which didn't come, and at the very least a relatively injury-free season, which obviously hasn't been the case.
That said, getting shellacked at home by a mediocre Dartmouth squad is well below even injury-adjusted expectations for this team, but also bad games happen. Sometimes they're a blessing in the end because the team takes on a "never again" attitude that can be wonderful for focusing the mind.
Quote from: TrotskyThis is one of my favorite contrasts of sweaters. Both classic.
There are some photos on the CU hockey website. Lack of sharp focus makes Dartmouth shoulder insignia look like the ace of spades.
Quote from: BearLoverSomeone want to look up the last time we lost by 5+ goals at home?
Since 1980:
0 - 5 11/30/83 UNH
2 - 7 01/14/84 Brown
0 - 6 02/28/84 Colgate
3 -11 12/08/85 Harvard
4 -10 01/21/87 Colgate
0 - 5 02/06/87 Clarkson
0 - 5 12/03/89 Harvard
0 - 7 11/28/92 Providence
2 - 8 02/13/93 St. Lawrence (my 30th birthday)
0 - 6 01/21/95 Colgate
0 - 7 03/07/15 Union (ECAC 1R)
1 - 6 01/25/25 Dartmouth
Quote from: Tom LentoQuote from: Tom LentoQuote from: George64Quote from: stereaxThe entire team was garbage, I don't think it's fair to pin it on Shane, especially after a rock solid game vs Harvard.
Agreed, he made some outstanding saves or it could have been worse. Last year, Shane was the ECAC Ken Dryden Goaltender of the Year, unanimous Ivy League Player of the Year with a 1.69 goals-against average and a .923 save percentage, named semifinalist for 2024 Mike Richter Award, and nominated for the Hobey Baker. He couldn't have regressed this much, it had to be a team effort.
I'm genuinely puzzled, why has the team so underperformed this season? Did we expect too much, losing only Seger?
I think expectations were way too high, yes. Last year's team had the potential to be competing for a national championship this year if everything went right, but that was the most optimistic scenario. Far more likely was a team around 10-12 in the nation challenging for a 2 seed on the upside and comfortably competing for a conference title and a 3 seed in the tournament.
Then came the injuries. My impression last season was last year's team wasn't like 2020 or 2003, with a top line that could compete with anybody AND a ton of depth. It was really a depth-based squad with four lines that could score and a solid but unspectacular top unit. That's not really national title material, although it puts the team in with a chance of riding a hot goaltender to glory.
The issue is it also means injuries to random middle-of-the-pack skaters cause problems, because now two different lines get messed up and the depth won't be there anymore.
So for this year's team to compete for a national title they needed someone to become Gabe Seger, which hasn't happened, and maybe an all-ECAC freshman forward, which didn't come, and at the very least a relatively injury-free season, which obviously hasn't been the case.
That said, getting shellacked at home by a mediocre Dartmouth squad is well below even injury-adjusted expectations for this team, but also bad games happen. Sometimes they're a blessing in the end because the team takes on a "never again" attitude that can be wonderful for focusing the mind.
I think this team has the talent to make a conference run. We have won dark horse titles in 1980 (from 8th), 1986 (3rd), and 1996 (4th). We have some great players and experience. We can do it.
Quote from: TrotskyQuote from: BearLoverSomeone want to look up the last time we lost by 5+ goals at home?
Since 1980:
0 - 5 11/30/83 UNH
2 - 7 01/14/84 Brown
0 - 6 02/28/84 Colgate
3 -11 12/08/85 Harvard
4 -10 01/21/87 Colgate
0 - 5 02/06/87 Clarkson
0 - 5 12/03/89 Harvard
0 - 7 11/28/92 Providence
2 - 8 02/13/93 St. Lawrence (my 30th birthday)
0 - 6 01/21/95 Colgate
0 - 7 03/07/15 Union (ECAC 1R)
1 - 6 01/25/25 Dartmouth
Colgate is not the team I would have expect to be the mode. Interesting that there's only one nonconference opponent.
Quote from: TrotskyQuote from: BearLoverSomeone want to look up the last time we lost by 5+ goals at home?
Since 1980:
0 - 5 11/30/83 UNH
2 - 7 01/14/84 Brown
0 - 6 02/28/84 Colgate
3 -11 12/08/85 Harvard
4 -10 01/21/87 Colgate
0 - 5 02/06/87 Clarkson
0 - 5 12/03/89 Harvard
0 - 7 11/28/92 Providence
2 - 8 02/13/93 St. Lawrence (my 30th birthday)
0 - 6 01/21/95 Colgate
0 - 7 03/07/15 Union (ECAC 1R)
1 - 6 01/25/25 Dartmouth
Yeesh. I've only been alive for two of these.
But yeah, agreeing with Tom (I think) that this might be the turning point that lights a fire under the asses of the Big Red. You can't let that happen.
Quote from: TrotskyQuote from: BearLoverSomeone want to look up the last time we lost by 5+ goals at home?
Since 1980:
0 - 5 11/30/83 UNH
2 - 7 01/14/84 Brown
0 - 6 02/28/84 Colgate
3 -11 12/08/85 Harvard
4 -10 01/21/87 Colgate
0 - 5 02/06/87 Clarkson
0 - 5 12/03/89 Harvard
0 - 7 11/28/92 Providence
2 - 8 02/13/93 St. Lawrence (my 30th birthday)
0 - 6 01/21/95 Colgate
0 - 7 03/07/15 Union (ECAC 1R)
1 - 6 01/25/25 Dartmouth
It looks like this is now in a pattern of happening once every 10 years! Let's hope it takes at least that many years for it to happen again.
If you want to stick it to your opponent, put the biscuit in the basket before the game ends.
Quote from: dbilmesQuote from: TrotskyQuote from: BearLoverSomeone want to look up the last time we lost by 5+ goals at home?
Since 1980:
0 - 5 11/30/83 UNH
2 - 7 01/14/84 Brown
0 - 6 02/28/84 Colgate
3 -11 12/08/85 Harvard
4 -10 01/21/87 Colgate
0 - 5 02/06/87 Clarkson
0 - 5 12/03/89 Harvard
0 - 7 11/28/92 Providence
2 - 8 02/13/93 St. Lawrence (my 30th birthday)
0 - 6 01/21/95 Colgate
0 - 7 03/07/15 Union (ECAC 1R)
1 - 6 01/25/25 Dartmouth
It looks like this is now in a pattern of happening once every 10 years! Let's hope it takes at least that many years for it to happen again.
It happened 10 years ago, and 20 years before that. Only happened twice under Schafer.
Quote from: TimVQuote from: TrotskyThis is one of my favorite contrasts of sweaters. Both classic.
There are some photos on the CU hockey website. Lack of sharp focus makes Dartmouth shoulder insignia look like the ace of spades.
I was trying to figure out what that logo was. I couldn't figure it out. What is it?
Quote from: Jeff Hopkins '82Quote from: TimVQuote from: TrotskyThis is one of my favorite contrasts of sweaters. Both classic.
There are some photos on the CU hockey website. Lack of sharp focus makes Dartmouth shoulder insignia look like the ace of spades.
I was trying to figure out what that logo was. I couldn't figure it out. What is it?
It's a tree. Dartmouth likes to style itself as being deep in nature in the middle of the woods...which it kind of is being in Hanover
Quote from: IcebergQuote from: Jeff Hopkins '82Quote from: TimVQuote from: TrotskyThis is one of my favorite contrasts of sweaters. Both classic.
There are some photos on the CU hockey website. Lack of sharp focus makes Dartmouth shoulder insignia look like the ace of spades.
I was trying to figure out what that logo was. I couldn't figure it out. What is it?
It's a tree. Dartmouth likes to style itself as being deep in nature in the middle of the woods...which it kind of is being in Hanover
I like iconography, so I looked it up. It's a simple representation of the "Lone Pine" which was a meeting landmark on their campus through most of the 19th century. Simplified shield versions of their original seal had the lone pine. In 2018, they moved to the new "D-Pine" logo to replace their old shield.
https://www.nhpr.org/nh-news/2018-01-25/dartmouth-rolls-out-new-logo
https://logos-world.net/wp-content/uploads/2023/05/Dartmouth-Logo-History.jpg
Quote from: RichHQuote from: IcebergQuote from: Jeff Hopkins '82Quote from: TimVQuote from: TrotskyThis is one of my favorite contrasts of sweaters. Both classic.
There are some photos on the CU hockey website. Lack of sharp focus makes Dartmouth shoulder insignia look like the ace of spades.
I was trying to figure out what that logo was. I couldn't figure it out. What is it?
It's a tree. Dartmouth likes to style itself as being deep in nature in the middle of the woods...which it kind of is being in Hanover
I like iconography, so I looked it up. It's a simple representation of the "Lone Pine" which was a meeting landmark on their campus through most of the 19th century. Simplified shield versions of their original seal had the lone pine. In 2018, they moved to the new "D-Pine" logo to replace their old shield.
https://www.nhpr.org/nh-news/2018-01-25/dartmouth-rolls-out-new-logo
https://logos-world.net/wp-content/uploads/2023/05/Dartmouth-Logo-History.jpg
Pretty cool tbh. Definitely an upgrade.
Quote from: stereaxQuote from: TrotskyQuote from: BearLoverSomeone want to look up the last time we lost by 5+ goals at home?
Since 1980:
0 - 5 11/30/83 UNH
2 - 7 01/14/84 Brown
0 - 6 02/28/84 Colgate
3 -11 12/08/85 Harvard
4 -10 01/21/87 Colgate
0 - 5 02/06/87 Clarkson
0 - 5 12/03/89 Harvard
0 - 7 11/28/92 Providence
2 - 8 02/13/93 St. Lawrence (my 30th birthday)
0 - 6 01/21/95 Colgate
0 - 7 03/07/15 Union (ECAC 1R)
1 - 6 01/25/25 Dartmouth
Yeesh. I've only been alive for two of these.
But yeah, agreeing with Tom (I think) that this might be the turning point that lights a fire under the asses of the Big Red. You can't let that happen.
I certainly hope that's what happens, but I'm not making any predictions. I feel like the range for this team is first round bye and conference title on the good end all the way down to bottom half finish and first round exit, and neither of those would surprise me. Makes things tough to predict.
I'll just try to enjoy the ride as best I can.
Quote from: stereaxPretty cool tbh. Definitely an upgrade.
Damn clever. Both a tree and a signpost for "oh the places you'll go (https://www.shutterstock.com/image-photo/direction-street-sign-showing-distance-260nw-2108263016.jpg)."
But it's still a glorified prep school for rich kids who couldn't get into Yale.
Or Bennington.
I believe that is the only time in my life I have seen mode referred to correctly in the wild outside of a textbook.
There's no doubt that was a rough game and the scene at the end has left a pretty bad taste. They were dominated right out of the gate and Shane did everything he could to keep them in that game. I even thought that the guy who scored the first goal bumped into Shane on his way through the crease to get wide open. I was wondering if they had considered a challenge but based on their lack of success so far this year I guess it wasn't worth risking the timeout that early in the game. Do any other teams block/tip more pucks into their own net than Cornell? Penney got right out to make that play and it still finds a way to flutter in. They finally discovered their game after digging the 3-0 hole. The Fegaras goal and the chance he had a little later on make me think he has his thumb free of the splint and is back to being fully healthy. They were flying during the latter part of the period and I thought once Psenicka drew that penalty they would be headed to the third only down one. Instead they never gained possession of the puck during the entire two minutes and the opportunity they had worked so hard to get went to waste. The third period is where I thought the refs let the game slip away. I thought there were two opportunities to snuff out some of the trouble that later led to things boiling over. When McDonald rode Kempf from the circles and into the boards on the icing, I thought that guy should have been given two and a game misconduct. The intent to hurt someone should be just that whether that person gets hurt or not. The auto icing rule was put in to prevent that type of play and there's no longer supposed to be any room in the game for that kind of thing. That guy got out of the box and continued to run around undeterred. The second missed opportunity to lower the temperature was when Stanley took his penalty with three minutes to go. He too should have been given a game misconduct and sent to the locker room. Why are they allowing guys who are losing their composure to return to action, especially that late in the game? Maybe it doesn't ultimately make a difference but the lack of control didn't help and they should shoulder a lot of blame for things getting out of hand. I have seen plenty of players gesture to the student section after big plays. What happened yesterday took it too far. They lingered in that corner like they had advanced in a playoff series instead of lining up for handshakes. What they were doing had nothing to do with celebrating with each other. I'm not surprised that after getting creamed like that the guys took matters into their own hands. I haven't rewatched the brawl and was hoping to put it out of my mind but then when I was playing knee hockey with my kiddo, he jumped me after he had run up the score so I guess I won't be able to move on as quickly as I'd like to. It's too bad that in such an important game and coming off of that terrific win Friday things went so sour. It's only one game but it could have an impact on the upcoming weekend with the suspensions. Maybe we can look back on the incident as a positive turning point in the season. All I know is that I hope the hockey gods have a rematch in store whether it be second round in Hanover in front of all twenty five of their fans or in Lake Placid so that Cornel can end their season once again. Sign me up for that please.
Ow (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scriptio_continua).
To my memory, this is the first game this season where a good number of the poster's here have called out our effort level.
The coaches have been quoted after a good number of games questioning the effort level.
Apart from injuries, effort seems to be the next biggest problem. That's a leadership problem in the locker room, and not on the coaches.
Quote from: abmarksTo my memory, this is the first game this season where a good number of the poster's here have called out our effort level.
The coaches have been quoted after a good number of games questioning the effort level.
Apart from injuries, effort seems to be the next biggest problem. That's a leadership problem in the locker room, and not on the coaches.
Embarrassing levels of cope here. First of all, show me where "a good number of posters called out our effort level." Second of all, after any loss any season there's a very high chance Schafer calls out the effort level. Happens multiple times every year. Third of all, why (according to you) is poor effort not on the coaches??? Huh? The coaches aren't in charge of getting the players to play hard?
Your premise is absurd because one of the few things that HAS been good this year has been the effort level. The players on this team compete really hard. In all the pages of me and others complaining about the team this season, effort has probably been cited the least of every plausible cause of our struggles, and for good reason.
Your claim that poor effort is not a coaching issue is the funniest part of your post. In like the fourth weekend of the season I apparently broke everybody's brains by writing something extremely benign along he lines of: "our terrible special teams and repeated mental lapses suggest to me that our struggles are partly the result of a coaching issue." I didn't call anybody a bad coach or call for anybody to be fired. I said the coaching as of week four seemed lacking and everybody on here went crazy and now they're making fools of themselves jumping through hoops trying to claim things like the coaches aren't responsible when the team doesn't try LOL.
Quote from: BearLoverEmbarrassing levels of cope here.
That is
not how we treat each other on this forum. I know it is ubiquitous in the rest of the social media world. Sometimes it may be hard to distinguish our joking around with each other with that calculated rudeness that is the witless man's attempt at an authenticity drag act. But this is not reddit. We do not do that here. Clean it up.
Quote from: VIEWfromKThere's no doubt that was a rough game and the scene at the end has left a pretty bad taste. They were dominated right out of the gate and Shane did everything he could to keep them in that game. I even thought that the guy who scored the first goal bumped into Shane on his way through the crease to get wide open. I was wondering if they had considered a challenge but based on their lack of success so far this year I guess it wasn't worth risking the timeout that early in the game. Do any other teams block/tip more pucks into their own net than Cornell? Penney got right out to make that play and it still finds a way to flutter in. They finally discovered their game after digging the 3-0 hole. The Fegaras goal and the chance he had a little later on make me think he has his thumb free of the splint and is back to being fully healthy. They were flying during the latter part of the period and I thought once Psenicka drew that penalty they would be headed to the third only down one. Instead they never gained possession of the puck during the entire two minutes and the opportunity they had worked so hard to get went to waste. The third period is where I thought the refs let the game slip away. I thought there were two opportunities to snuff out some of the trouble that later led to things boiling over. When McDonald rode Kempf from the circles and into the boards on the icing, I thought that guy should have been given two and a game misconduct. The intent to hurt someone should be just that whether that person gets hurt or not. The auto icing rule was put in to prevent that type of play and there's no longer supposed to be any room in the game for that kind of thing. That guy got out of the box and continued to run around undeterred. The second missed opportunity to lower the temperature was when Stanley took his penalty with three minutes to go. He too should have been given a game misconduct and sent to the locker room. Why are they allowing guys who are losing their composure to return to action, especially that late in the game? Maybe it doesn't ultimately make a difference but the lack of control didn't help and they should shoulder a lot of blame for things getting out of hand. I have seen plenty of players gesture to the student section after big plays. What happened yesterday took it too far. They lingered in that corner like they had advanced in a playoff series instead of lining up for handshakes. What they were doing had nothing to do with celebrating with each other. I'm not surprised that after getting creamed like that the guys took matters into their own hands. I haven't rewatched the brawl and was hoping to put it out of my mind but then when I was playing knee hockey with my kiddo, he jumped me after he had run up the score so I guess I won't be able to move on as quickly as I'd like to. It's too bad that in such an important game and coming off of that terrific win Friday things went so sour. It's only one game but it could have an impact on the upcoming weekend with the suspensions. Maybe we can look back on the incident as a positive turning point in the season. All I know is that I hope the hockey gods have a rematch in store whether it be second round in Hanover in front of all twenty five of their fans or in Lake Placid so that Cornel can end their season once again. Sign me up for that please.
The Kempf non-penalty was egregiously bad. I was shocked they called NOTHING on the play. Clear whistle, the Dart goes in ANYWAY to slam a by-that-point-unaware Kempf into the boards and I'd be surprised if it didn't leave him banged up.
Dartmouth for sure was taunting the student section specifically. I think there's a difference between "fun and games" messing around (Croteau in the final minutes letting us do the "bend over" chant and playing along before leaning dramatically on his crossbar and striking a pose while Cornell failed to gain possession, again) and specific disrespect to the Lynah Faithful (cellying in front of the student section like they won the natty). I'm glad the Big Red didn't take that shit from them. I'm glad there's at least THAT fire in the team. (Though I do think the effort levels are higher than others think; I do see the team getting frustrated after bad possessions or missing chances. I don't think they're giving up. It feels a lot more like they just haven't been able to put it together consistently.)
100% agreed, again, the brawl could be a pivotal point in this season. As I said earlier, they've got
fans, at Lynah and outside of it, who want them to succeed, badly. Hopefully the energy of the fanbase rubs off on them and they understand that that shit just can't happen again. You can't let yourself get embarrassed like that, especially not on home ice. You're gonna let fucking Dartmouth do that to you?
Dartmouth??? No. Can't fucking happen again. Dear hockey gods, please let this arrogance not go unpunished.
I don't know about the state of the locker room and don't pay attention to the interviews like some other folks here do, but I do think the team lost a lot of intangible strengths with Seger's departure. I imagine suspensions will be announced today or tomorrow so we should soon have a better idea of what the roster will look like for this weekend.
Quote from: stereaxQuote from: CU2007Interesting to consider what would have happened 30 years ago or so. Does the league just go with whatever the refs gave? I assume no video to watch to lengthen the suspensions.
One of the Cornell-affiliated ladies said the league is going to review it before anything official is said. I'm assuming they have some video to watch. HIGHLY doubt their video feed would cut off the second the game ends. I know the coaches told the media guys not to turn off the camera until the refs came back out to announce the penalties, which they never did. Hold on, I got ESPN+, let me rewatch from last night.
Suda took a run at a Dart after the horn sounded... then Dart goes to celly in front of the student section... and then Cornell goes to beat em up. I think first man in is O'Leary simply due to height. Penney gets in it too. Catalano is def scrapping. There's DeSantis flipping a Dart over. Dart's starter and Keopple havin a chat, unaffected; ditto Katz, Shane, and the backup. Ondrej Psenicka is very tall. I think that's Schafer walking over. (I've been spelling it Schaefer this whole time. Fuck me.) Penney still shoving. O'Leary and Pennet helmetless. O'Leary still complaining. And then they're off, Penney and Casty share their post-game hug and scatter.
You can definitely tell who's scrapping because they WANT to (O'Leary, Penney, Catalano, DeSantis, Walsh, Stanley, Kempf, Kraft, Rego, Rayhill...) and those who are mostly there because everyone else is (Fegaras, Castagna, Robertson, Kovich, Psenicka, O'Brien...) as well as the mixed-bag guys (Suda, Mack, Bancroft...) And this is just off the ESPN feed. I'm SURE the NCAA has more cameras.
I don't agree with your assessment of the guys WANTING to fight. I just rewatched everything twice (ESPN+ and the video you posted). It appears that some of those you listed were each holding back along with a Dartmouth player. I see things differently than you and would hate to give someone a bad rap unjustly-that's my take
Quote from: stereaxThe Kempf non-penalty was egregiously bad. I was shocked they called NOTHING on the play.]
They did give MacDonald 2 for hitting after the whistle, but they definitely could have gotten more heavy-handed and tacked on a few 10-minute misconducts (for both teams) with all the nonsense/instigation stuff that happened in the latter parts of the third. That would have at least gotten some of the "brawl" participants off the ice earlier.
Quote from: TrotskyQuote from: BearLoverEmbarrassing levels of cope here.
That is not how we treat each other on this forum. I know it is ubiquitous in the rest of the social media world. Sometimes it may be hard to distinguish our joking around with each other with that calculated rudeness that is the witless man's attempt at an authenticity drag act. But this is not reddit. We do not do that here. Clean it up.
This dude has been stalking me and calling me clownlover for months
Quote from: TrotskyQuote from: BearLoverEmbarrassing levels of cope here.
That is not how we treat each other on this forum. I know it is ubiquitous in the rest of the social media world. Sometimes it may be hard to distinguish our joking around with each other with that calculated rudeness that is the witless man's attempt at an authenticity drag act. But this is not reddit. We do not do that here. Clean it up.
Trotsky chastising anyone for online ungentlemanly behavior. ::banana::::banana::::banana::
Quote from: TrotskyOw (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scriptio_continua).
Scriptio continua - Even at 82, I never fail to learn something new on eLynah!
Quote from: Tom LentoQuote from: George64...I'm genuinely puzzled, why has the team so underperformed this season? Did we expect too much, losing only Seger?
I think expectations were way too high, yes...
in our defense, after a smoking hot spring semester, we beat maine and damn near took out denver. that said, if we were over our skis in expecting a top 5 team, what we've seen has been disappointing even if we had more realistic expectations of being a clear 3-4 seed band squad.
If you get a chance, check out the YTD cumulative stats- team and individual
I find it interesting
Quote from: ugarteQuote from: Tom LentoQuote from: George64...I'm genuinely puzzled, why has the team so underperformed this season? Did we expect too much, losing only Seger?
I think expectations were way too high, yes...
in our defense, after a smoking hot spring semester, we beat maine and damn near took out denver. that said, if we were over our skis in expecting a top 5 team, what we've seen has been disappointing even if we had more realistic expectations of being a clear 3-4 seed band squad.
I'm not saying those expectations were ridiculous, especially given the strong NCAA appearance, merely that they were inflated by a hot run against weak competition and one good weekend in the NCAAs. I think about it like this - had Q not laid an egg in the SF and beaten Cornell in the finals as expected nobody would've been talking about national championship contention as a baseline expectation for a team with 10 sophomores that watched the NCAAs on TV the previous season.
I agree that this season to date has been disappointing relative to any reasonable pre-season expectation. I also contend the gap between pre-season expectations and where they are isn't really a mystery - they've been crushed by injuries. Personally, I'd put season to date on the disappointing end of the injury-adjusted expectation spectrum, but well within what's normal.
So yeah, disappointment is justified. I think the only thing that'll fix this season is guys getting healthy and staying healthy and getting the time to get back to the level of fitness and execution they need to succeed. Fortunately, they seem to be getting back to full strength (pending suspension news). Unfortunately, time is running short even for a strong RS position. They might just have to win 6 games in the playoffs, which is a tall order even in a down year for the conference.
Quote from: Tom LentoQuote from: ugarteQuote from: Tom LentoQuote from: George64...I'm genuinely puzzled, why has the team so underperformed this season? Did we expect too much, losing only Seger?
I think expectations were way too high, yes...
in our defense, after a smoking hot spring semester, we beat maine and damn near took out denver. that said, if we were over our skis in expecting a top 5 team, what we've seen has been disappointing even if we had more realistic expectations of being a clear 3-4 seed band squad.
I agree that this season to date has been disappointing relative to any reasonable pre-season expectation. I also contend the gap between pre-season expectations and where they are isn't really a mystery - they've been crushed by injuries. Personally, I'd put season to date on the disappointing end of the injury-adjusted expectation spectrum, but well within what's normal.
Citing injuries as the number one reason seems incorrect. This past weekend we got Penney back and lost at home to Dartmouth 6-1. Yes, we have injuries. So does every other team. Are ours worse than average? Yes, but not by so much that they come anywhere close to fully explaining our struggles. Shane has been (apparently) healthy the whole season, and the first PP unit (until Major's recent injury) as well. Yet those are by far the two biggest weaknesses of this team.
Dartmouth players celebrate the 6-1 toppling of Cornell near the primo student sections (A and B, nearest to the visitor net periods 1/3) perhaps as payback for Cornell fans getting in Dartmouth's collective head during the game. Followed by Cornell also skating over to Sec A-B, followed by pushing, shoving, grabbing and some swinging arms.
End of game penalties:
Cornell 69 minutes including 3 game disqualifications (Penney, O'Leary, Stanley)
Dartmouth 69 minutes including 3 game disqualifications (Fusco, Pierce, Silverberg)
First photo: Dartmouth celebrating at game's end, in front of student sections A & B
Second photo: Pushing, shoving, three game misconducts per side
Quote from: Tom LentoThey might just have to win 6 games in the playoffs, which is a tall order even in a down year for the conference.
It's down to five right with the first round now a winner take all single game?
Quote from: BearLoverQuote from: Tom LentoQuote from: ugarteQuote from: Tom LentoQuote from: George64...I'm genuinely puzzled, why has the team so underperformed this season? Did we expect too much, losing only Seger?
I think expectations were way too high, yes...
in our defense, after a smoking hot spring semester, we beat maine and damn near took out denver. that said, if we were over our skis in expecting a top 5 team, what we've seen has been disappointing even if we had more realistic expectations of being a clear 3-4 seed band squad.
I agree that this season to date has been disappointing relative to any reasonable pre-season expectation. I also contend the gap between pre-season expectations and where they are isn't really a mystery - they've been crushed by injuries. Personally, I'd put season to date on the disappointing end of the injury-adjusted expectation spectrum, but well within what's normal.
Citing injuries as the number one reason seems incorrect. This past weekend we got Penney back and lost at home to Dartmouth 6-1. Yes, we have injuries. So does every other team. Are ours worse than average? Yes, but not by so much that they come anywhere close to fully explaining our struggles. Shane has been (apparently) healthy the whole season, and the first PP unit (until Major's recent injury) as well. Yet those are by far the two biggest weaknesses of this team.
Maybe they were all hungover after the Beat Harvard Victory Party.
Quote from: TrotskyOw (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scriptio_continua).
Sorry, I went to school on the other hill.
Quote from: BearLoverQuote from: Tom LentoQuote from: ugarteQuote from: Tom LentoQuote from: George64...I'm genuinely puzzled, why has the team so underperformed this season? Did we expect too much, losing only Seger?
I think expectations were way too high, yes...
in our defense, after a smoking hot spring semester, we beat maine and damn near took out denver. that said, if we were over our skis in expecting a top 5 team, what we've seen has been disappointing even if we had more realistic expectations of being a clear 3-4 seed band squad.
I agree that this season to date has been disappointing relative to any reasonable pre-season expectation. I also contend the gap between pre-season expectations and where they are isn't really a mystery - they've been crushed by injuries. Personally, I'd put season to date on the disappointing end of the injury-adjusted expectation spectrum, but well within what's normal.
Citing injuries as the number one reason seems incorrect. This past weekend we got Penney back and lost at home to Dartmouth 6-1. Yes, we have injuries. So does every other team. Are ours worse than average? Yes, but not by so much that they come anywhere close to fully explaining our struggles. Shane has been (apparently) healthy the whole season, and the first PP unit (until Major's recent injury) as well. Yet those are by far the two biggest weaknesses of this team.
I suspect you grossly underestimate the knock on effects injuries have in terms of practice time and fitness. Penney is back, but did he look like his old self Saturday, or maybe like a guy who was a step slow despite limited minutes? What does it tell you that he was out there instead of another player in mid-season form? Fegaras has been back for what, 4 games? And he's finally looking like himself now, two weeks after being cleared to play? Again, why play him instead of someone who isn't still recovering from a broken wrist? The answer is that these guys at less than 100% are better than the alternatives - the same alternatives who were forced into unfamiliar roles in their absence.
Also, yes, every team has injuries. Not every team loses their senior captain for nearly half the season, one of their top young defensemen for 1/3 of the season, and several other regular shift players - mostly upperclassmen - for ~1/4 of the season. That kind of thrash causes absolute havoc with lines, and makes it all but impossible to focus adequate practice time on such niceties as power play configurations and breakout sets.
I don't envy the coaches or the players. This has been a rough season to date. They should, nevertheless, have won a few more games. Splitting with Dartmouth and taking maximum points from Yale and Brown was well within reach even accounting for the injuries. But that's within normal variance in a sport like hockey.
In the end, it kind of doesn't matter - the regular season is likely a bust. The thing to hope for is they get healthy and get it together in time for a big playoff run. Absent that, this will be a short season, and Schafer's tenure will go out with a whimper.
Quote from: Tom LentoQuote from: BearLoverQuote from: Tom LentoQuote from: ugarteQuote from: Tom LentoQuote from: George64...I'm genuinely puzzled, why has the team so underperformed this season? Did we expect too much, losing only Seger?
I think expectations were way too high, yes...
in our defense, after a smoking hot spring semester, we beat maine and damn near took out denver. that said, if we were over our skis in expecting a top 5 team, what we've seen has been disappointing even if we had more realistic expectations of being a clear 3-4 seed band squad.
I agree that this season to date has been disappointing relative to any reasonable pre-season expectation. I also contend the gap between pre-season expectations and where they are isn't really a mystery - they've been crushed by injuries. Personally, I'd put season to date on the disappointing end of the injury-adjusted expectation spectrum, but well within what's normal.
Citing injuries as the number one reason seems incorrect. This past weekend we got Penney back and lost at home to Dartmouth 6-1. Yes, we have injuries. So does every other team. Are ours worse than average? Yes, but not by so much that they come anywhere close to fully explaining our struggles. Shane has been (apparently) healthy the whole season, and the first PP unit (until Major's recent injury) as well. Yet those are by far the two biggest weaknesses of this team.
I suspect you grossly underestimate the knock on effects injuries have in terms of practice time and fitness. Penney is back, but did he look like his old self Saturday, or maybe like a guy who was a step slow despite limited minutes? What does it tell you that he was out there instead of another player in mid-season form? Fegaras has been back for what, 4 games? And he's finally looking like himself now, two weeks after being cleared to play? Again, why play him instead of someone who isn't still recovering from a broken wrist? The answer is that these guys at less than 100% are better than the alternatives - the same alternatives who were forced into unfamiliar roles in their absence.
Also, yes, every team has injuries. Not every team loses their senior captain for nearly half the season, one of their top young defensemen for 1/3 of the season, and several other regular shift players - mostly upperclassmen - for ~1/4 of the season. That kind of thrash causes absolute havoc with lines, and makes it all but impossible to focus adequate practice time on such niceties as power play configurations and breakout sets.
I don't envy the coaches or the players. This has been a rough season to date. They should, nevertheless, have won a few more games. Splitting with Dartmouth and taking maximum points from Yale and Brown was well within reach even accounting for the injuries. But that's within normal variance in a sport like hockey.
In the end, it kind of doesn't matter - the regular season is likely a bust. The thing to hope for is they get healthy and get it together in time for a big playoff run. Absent that, this will be a short season, and Schafer's tenure will go out with a whimper.
TBH Fegaras looked like one of our better players as soon as he returned. Fair enough on the rest of your post—I really don't know. In the 2018-19 season we had even worse injury luck but still made the NCAAs as a 3-seed and would have won the ECAC if not for several blown calls by the refs and freak injuries in the ECAC final.
Quote from: VIEWfromKQuote from: TrotskyOw (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scriptio_continua).
Sorry, I went to school on the other hill.
Mons Capitolinus?
Quote from: VIEWfromKQuote from: Tom LentoThey might just have to win 6 games in the playoffs, which is a tall order even in a down year for the conference.
It's down to five right with the first round now a winner take all single game?
Correct.
Quote from: Tom LentoQuote from: BearLoverQuote from: Tom LentoQuote from: ugarteQuote from: Tom LentoQuote from: George64...I'm genuinely puzzled, why has the team so underperformed this season? Did we expect too much, losing only Seger?
I think expectations were way too high, yes...
in our defense, after a smoking hot spring semester, we beat maine and damn near took out denver. that said, if we were over our skis in expecting a top 5 team, what we've seen has been disappointing even if we had more realistic expectations of being a clear 3-4 seed band squad.
I agree that this season to date has been disappointing relative to any reasonable pre-season expectation. I also contend the gap between pre-season expectations and where they are isn't really a mystery - they've been crushed by injuries. Personally, I'd put season to date on the disappointing end of the injury-adjusted expectation spectrum, but well within what's normal.
Citing injuries as the number one reason seems incorrect. This past weekend we got Penney back and lost at home to Dartmouth 6-1. Yes, we have injuries. So does every other team. Are ours worse than average? Yes, but not by so much that they come anywhere close to fully explaining our struggles. Shane has been (apparently) healthy the whole season, and the first PP unit (until Major's recent injury) as well. Yet those are by far the two biggest weaknesses of this team.
I suspect you grossly underestimate the knock on effects injuries have in terms of practice time and fitness. Penney is back, but did he look like his old self Saturday, or maybe like a guy who was a step slow despite limited minutes? What does it tell you that he was out there instead of another player in mid-season form? Fegaras has been back for what, 4 games? And he's finally looking like himself now, two weeks after being cleared to play? Again, why play him instead of someone who isn't still recovering from a broken wrist? The answer is that these guys at less than 100% are better than the alternatives - the same alternatives who were forced into unfamiliar roles in their absence.
Also, yes, every team has injuries. Not every team loses their senior captain for nearly half the season, one of their top young defensemen for 1/3 of the season, and several other regular shift players - mostly upperclassmen - for ~1/4 of the season. That kind of thrash causes absolute havoc with lines, and makes it all but impossible to focus adequate practice time on such niceties as power play configurations and breakout sets.
I don't envy the coaches or the players. This has been a rough season to date. They should, nevertheless, have won a few more games. Splitting with Dartmouth and taking maximum points from Yale and Brown was well within reach even accounting for the injuries. But that's within normal variance in a sport like hockey.
In the end, it kind of doesn't matter - the regular season is likely a bust. The thing to hope for is they get healthy and get it together in time for a big playoff run. Absent that, this will be a short season, and Schafer's tenure will go out with a whimper.
And with all the flu/norovirus/crud going around, which lingers trust me, who knows who's playing at 70% because of a cough that stuck around a month or the general toll that can take- even on a 20 year old, it can really take it out of you.
Quote from: BearLoverTBH Fegaras looked like one of our better players as soon as he returned. Fair enough on the rest of your post—I really don't know. In the 2018-19 season we had even worse injury luck but still made the NCAAs as a 3-seed and would have won the ECAC if not for several blown calls by the refs and freak injuries in the ECAC final.
That team was more talented than this one, especially on defense (Green, Kaldis, Nuttle, Smith, and McCrea are much better than the current D corps) and in net (obviously Galajda). Also, the conference was better overall. My point being that that team was in a better position to overcome the injury plague that season.
Quote from: IcebergQuote from: BearLoverTBH Fegaras looked like one of our better players as soon as he returned. Fair enough on the rest of your post—I really don't know. In the 2018-19 season we had even worse injury luck but still made the NCAAs as a 3-seed and would have won the ECAC if not for several blown calls by the refs and freak injuries in the ECAC final.
That team was more talented than this one, especially on defense (Green, Kaldis, Nuttle, Smith, and McCrea are much better than the current D corps) and in net (obviously Galajda). Also, the conference was better overall. My point being that that team was in a better position to overcome the injury plague that season.
I don't think most of us would have said this year's team was less talented before this season started. Comparable, maybe. Also, the conference being better is a wash for Pairwise purposes and actively hurtful for conference standing purposes.
Quote from: TrotskyQuote from: VIEWfromKQuote from: TrotskyOw (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scriptio_continua).
Sorry, I went to school on the other hill.
Mons Capitolinus?
Not even close
Quote from: fastforwardQuote from: stereaxQuote from: CU2007Interesting to consider what would have happened 30 years ago or so. Does the league just go with whatever the refs gave? I assume no video to watch to lengthen the suspensions.
One of the Cornell-affiliated ladies said the league is going to review it before anything official is said. I'm assuming they have some video to watch. HIGHLY doubt their video feed would cut off the second the game ends. I know the coaches told the media guys not to turn off the camera until the refs came back out to announce the penalties, which they never did. Hold on, I got ESPN+, let me rewatch from last night.
Suda took a run at a Dart after the horn sounded... then Dart goes to celly in front of the student section... and then Cornell goes to beat em up. I think first man in is O'Leary simply due to height. Penney gets in it too. Catalano is def scrapping. There's DeSantis flipping a Dart over. Dart's starter and Keopple havin a chat, unaffected; ditto Katz, Shane, and the backup. Ondrej Psenicka is very tall. I think that's Schafer walking over. (I've been spelling it Schaefer this whole time. Fuck me.) Penney still shoving. O'Leary and Pennet helmetless. O'Leary still complaining. And then they're off, Penney and Casty share their post-game hug and scatter.
You can definitely tell who's scrapping because they WANT to (O'Leary, Penney, Catalano, DeSantis, Walsh, Stanley, Kempf, Kraft, Rego, Rayhill...) and those who are mostly there because everyone else is (Fegaras, Castagna, Robertson, Kovich, Psenicka, O'Brien...) as well as the mixed-bag guys (Suda, Mack, Bancroft...) And this is just off the ESPN feed. I'm SURE the NCAA has more cameras.
I don't agree with your assessment of the guys WANTING to fight. I just rewatched everything twice (ESPN+ and the video you posted). It appears that some of those you listed were each holding back along with a Dartmouth player. I see things differently than you and would hate to give someone a bad rap unjustly-that's my take
I don't mean the guys wanting to fight is a bad thing;
au contraire, I think it's a good thing when you're sticking up for your teammates and team like that. Not saying the guys who were less enthused (to my eyes) are doing anything wrong either, though, because there's definitely a value in staying level-headed even when others on your team are going off. The first four were 100% getting their licks in, I saw Walsh scrumming it up to the right along with I think Rayhill, Rego was shaking a ref off him to try to go after someone, I don't remember off the top of my head the other three.
Quote from: The RancorQuote from: Tom LentoQuote from: BearLoverQuote from: Tom LentoQuote from: ugarteQuote from: Tom LentoQuote from: George64...I'm genuinely puzzled, why has the team so underperformed this season? Did we expect too much, losing only Seger?
I think expectations were way too high, yes...
in our defense, after a smoking hot spring semester, we beat maine and damn near took out denver. that said, if we were over our skis in expecting a top 5 team, what we've seen has been disappointing even if we had more realistic expectations of being a clear 3-4 seed band squad.
I agree that this season to date has been disappointing relative to any reasonable pre-season expectation. I also contend the gap between pre-season expectations and where they are isn't really a mystery - they've been crushed by injuries. Personally, I'd put season to date on the disappointing end of the injury-adjusted expectation spectrum, but well within what's normal.
Citing injuries as the number one reason seems incorrect. This past weekend we got Penney back and lost at home to Dartmouth 6-1. Yes, we have injuries. So does every other team. Are ours worse than average? Yes, but not by so much that they come anywhere close to fully explaining our struggles. Shane has been (apparently) healthy the whole season, and the first PP unit (until Major's recent injury) as well. Yet those are by far the two biggest weaknesses of this team.
I suspect you grossly underestimate the knock on effects injuries have in terms of practice time and fitness. Penney is back, but did he look like his old self Saturday, or maybe like a guy who was a step slow despite limited minutes? What does it tell you that he was out there instead of another player in mid-season form? Fegaras has been back for what, 4 games? And he's finally looking like himself now, two weeks after being cleared to play? Again, why play him instead of someone who isn't still recovering from a broken wrist? The answer is that these guys at less than 100% are better than the alternatives - the same alternatives who were forced into unfamiliar roles in their absence.
Also, yes, every team has injuries. Not every team loses their senior captain for nearly half the season, one of their top young defensemen for 1/3 of the season, and several other regular shift players - mostly upperclassmen - for ~1/4 of the season. That kind of thrash causes absolute havoc with lines, and makes it all but impossible to focus adequate practice time on such niceties as power play configurations and breakout sets.
I don't envy the coaches or the players. This has been a rough season to date. They should, nevertheless, have won a few more games. Splitting with Dartmouth and taking maximum points from Yale and Brown was well within reach even accounting for the injuries. But that's within normal variance in a sport like hockey.
In the end, it kind of doesn't matter - the regular season is likely a bust. The thing to hope for is they get healthy and get it together in time for a big playoff run. Absent that, this will be a short season, and Schafer's tenure will go out with a whimper.
And with all the flu/norovirus/crud going around, which lingers trust me, who knows who's playing at 70% because of a cough that stuck around a month or the general toll that can take- even on a 20 year old, it can really take it out of you.
Hell, we don't even know if Shane is playing at 100% or if Schafer and co are trotting him out because they don't trust Keopple or Katz.
I swear, I've been trying to keep up with lines but it feels damn near impossible with the amount of people out and the shuffling that's been going on. It's impossible to form chemistry when you're getting thrown on the ice with anyone in the coach's line of sight.
At this point I just want to see the guys start to get it together in time for the playoffs. If it's more games than we "should have" been playing, so be it. Not having a bye isn't the end of the world. Just get back to your game, get healthy, and set your sights on the next thing.
Will the ECAC ever get around to announcing supplementary discipline? Or will we find out Friday night when the teams hit the ice.
since we don't know if anyone is sick, and we also don't know if other teams are dealing with illnesses, please work out the "what ifs" with your therapist and maybe stick with what you see and let yourself be disappointed by losing. you don't have to bemoan it but you also don't need to rush to excuse it. sit with it. sometimes bad things happen.
Abridged email from coach Schafer:
This past weekend I saw the highs and lows of coaching. It was a fantastic win on Friday against our rival. We played hard and well most of the night. This is always a tough weekend because Harvard and Dartmouth are complete opposites. What one team does is completely different than the other one
On Friday night, we came out flying and played hard and well most of the night against our rival. We had the usual festivities by the fans before the game, but the rink crew did a super and quick job in clearing off the ice. They were well-prepared and so were we. Harvard did not get a shot on goal until five minutes into the game. . . .
And now for the ugly. I don't understand how you can play so hard most of the night, and then come out the next night and play so poorly. We lacked the execution and tenacity to win back to back. It was a chippy game all night, and ended with a brawl after the final whistle. . . .
Our guys were frustrated and unfortunately let their frustrations show at the end of the night. We will have some suspensions and will need to rally in the North Country. We take on St. Lawrence on Friday night, and Clarkson Saturday evening. . . .
As always, the guys appreciate your support on the road.
Quote from: arugulaWill the ECAC ever get around to announcing supplementary discipline? Or will we find out Friday night when the teams hit the ice.
Wheel of Suspensions at it again.
Quote from: arugulaWill the ECAC ever get around to announcing supplementary discipline? Or will we find out Friday night when the teams hit the ice.
Sadly, the ECAC stopped announcing suspensions years ago. I've railed about this for many years.
Here's one such screed:
https://www.collegehockeynews.com/news/2019/03/06_Commentary-ECAC-Blunders.php
"Team was gassed [vs. Dartmouth"? Perhaps: emotionally drained from the Harvard high, perhaps. Or perhaps if we check the playing time per player, we'll see a heavier load on the first two lines on account of lines 3 and 4 played relatively fewer minutes, since they have less 2024-25 game experience. That's my guess.
Quote from: adamwQuote from: arugulaWill the ECAC ever get around to announcing supplementary discipline? Or will we find out Friday night when the teams hit the ice.
Sadly, the ECAC stopped announcing suspensions years ago. I've railed about this for many years.
Here's one such screed:
https://www.collegehockeynews.com/news/2019/03/06_Commentary-ECAC-Blunders.php
Fascinating. Positively Soviet. So we'll have to figure it out Friday night. I'm available if needed at left wing.
Quote from: billhoward"Team was gassed [vs. Dartmouth"? Perhaps: emotionally drained from the Harvard high, perhaps. Or perhaps if we check the playing time per player, we'll see a heavier load on the first two lines on account of lines 3 and 4 played relatively fewer minutes, since they have less 2024-25 game experience. That's my guess.
I would tend to agree with your assessment
Quote from: IcebergQuote from: BearLoverTBH Fegaras looked like one of our better players as soon as he returned. Fair enough on the rest of your post—I really don't know. In the 2018-19 season we had even worse injury luck but still made the NCAAs as a 3-seed and would have won the ECAC if not for several blown calls by the refs and freak injuries in the ECAC final.
That team was more talented than this one, especially on defense (Green, Kaldis, Nuttle, Smith, and McCrea are much better than the current D corps) and in net (obviously Galajda). Also, the conference was better overall. My point being that that team was in a better position to overcome the injury plague that season.
Looking at the stats from that season and this one they may have been a bit luckier with who missed most of the games and how the injuries were distributed. IIRC Andreev had the worst luck with injuries that year, and that's why he only played 2/3 of the season, but he was just a freshman and it seems like most of their top players were available and productive for the dominant majority of the games.
Quote from: arugulaQuote from: adamwQuote from: arugulaWill the ECAC ever get around to announcing supplementary discipline? Or will we find out Friday night when the teams hit the ice.
Sadly, the ECAC stopped announcing suspensions years ago. I've railed about this for many years.
Here's one such screed:
https://www.collegehockeynews.com/news/2019/03/06_Commentary-ECAC-Blunders.php
Fascinating. Positively Soviet. So we'll have to figure it out Friday night. I'm available if needed at left wing.
I heard Schafer is going back on D... haha
Quote from: arugulaQuote from: adamwQuote from: arugulaWill the ECAC ever get around to announcing supplementary discipline? Or will we find out Friday night when the teams hit the ice.
Sadly, the ECAC stopped announcing suspensions years ago. I've railed about this for many years.
Here's one such screed:
https://www.collegehockeynews.com/news/2019/03/06_Commentary-ECAC-Blunders.php
Fascinating. Positively Soviet. So we'll have to figure it out Friday night. I'm available if needed at left wing.
Actually, you'll have to figure it out Saturday night. Friday will be 3 automatic suspensions for getting Game DQs. Saturday would be the supplemental.
There's the three automatic on Friday but there was a sense there may be additional dqs. For example, DeSantjs and Schafer.
Good time Wallace or Devlin or Murray or Donaldson or Mosko or Major to get healthy. I'm sure I forgot someone.
Desperate times call for.....
Call up Sam Malinski and put a "Devlin" jersey on him???
Quote from: SnowballDesperate times call for.....
Call up Sam Malinski and put a "Devlin" jersey on him???
How bout Gabe Seger? Malinski might be too obvious...
Welcome Seger!
Quote from: TrotskyI believe that is the only time in my life I have seen mode referred to correctly in the wild outside of a textbook.
You need more data scientists in your social circles.
Quote from: pjd8Quote from: TrotskyI believe that is the only time in my life I have seen mode referred to correctly in the wild outside of a textbook.
You need more data scientists in your social circles.
Do I, though?
Quote from: TrotskyQuote from: pjd8Quote from: TrotskyI believe that is the only time in my life I have seen mode referred to correctly in the wild outside of a textbook.
You need more data scientists in your social circles.
Do I, though?
I think you need more data to be sure.
Quote from: adamwActually, you'll have to figure it out Saturday night. Friday will be 3 automatic suspensions for getting Game DQs. Saturday would be the supplemental.
Is there precedent for supplemental suspensions beyond the auto DQ? This is a pretty unique situation that doesn't come up much but I didn't know if anyone could recall other instances?
Long-time fan. I attended my first game in about 1965. I learned to skate on Lynah ice. My wife and I return to Ithaca several times each season...and catch the team all over (MSG, Tempe, Las Vegas, Lansing, Ohio, LP, and ECAC rinks in recent years). Is there any update on suspensions and Schafer's potential absence from the north country games or others?
Quote from: VIEWfromKQuote from: adamwActually, you'll have to figure it out Saturday night. Friday will be 3 automatic suspensions for getting Game DQs. Saturday would be the supplemental.
Is there precedent for supplemental suspensions beyond the auto DQ? This is a pretty unique situation that doesn't come up much but I didn't know if anyone could recall other instances?
https://www.collegehockeynews.com/news/2016/02/10_ecac_adds_game_to_ogara_suspension.php
https://www.timesunion.com/sports/article/ECAC-adds-penalties-after-Union-RPI-game-5187588.php
https://cornellsun.com/2009/01/29/m-hockey-rejects-policy-payback/
Quote from: VIEWfromKQuote from: adamwActually, you'll have to figure it out Saturday night. Friday will be 3 automatic suspensions for getting Game DQs. Saturday would be the supplemental.
Is there precedent for supplemental suspensions beyond the auto DQ? This is a pretty unique situation that doesn't come up much but I didn't know if anyone could recall other instances?
Sah already linked to an article about the Mayor's Cup brawl from 10 years ago. That was probably the last big incident in the conference before this past Saturday
Quote from: Steven BronfenbrennerLong-time fan. I attended my first game in about 1965. I learned to skate on Lynah ice. My wife and I return to Ithaca several times each season...and catch the team all over (MSG, Tempe, Las Vegas, Lansing, Ohio, LP, and ECAC rinks in recent years). Is there any update on suspensions and Schafer's potential absence from the north country games or others?
Nothin' yet. :/
Quote from: VIEWfromKQuote from: adamwActually, you'll have to figure it out Saturday night. Friday will be 3 automatic suspensions for getting Game DQs. Saturday would be the supplemental.
Is there precedent for supplemental suspensions beyond the auto DQ? This is a pretty unique situation that doesn't come up much but I didn't know if anyone could recall other instances?
It happens multiple times per year in each league. You just never hear about it in the ECAC -- since 2019.
Quote from: adamwQuote from: VIEWfromKQuote from: adamwActually, you'll have to figure it out Saturday night. Friday will be 3 automatic suspensions for getting Game DQs. Saturday would be the supplemental.
Is there precedent for supplemental suspensions beyond the auto DQ? This is a pretty unique situation that doesn't come up much but I didn't know if anyone could recall other instances?
It happens multiple times per year in each league. You just never hear about it in the ECAC -- since 2019.
There are other leagues!?
Brawls are always counter productive.
https://www.collegehockeynews.com/news/2025/01/31_Cornell-Dartmouth-Receive.php
Quote from: iceBrawls are always counter productive.
Almost always.
(https://www.battlefields.org/sites/default/files/styles/hero_large/public/thumbnails/image/Appomattox%20Court%20House%20Hero_0.jpg?h=1a7cb72a&itok=jjUWHWMJ)
Quote from: TrotskyQuote from: iceBrawls are always counter productive.
Almost always.
Good point.
Some of the gray guys in the image are getting their fort names reinstated.
Quote from: stereaxKovich in the box too. No idea why. Catalano and friend from Dartmouth trapped in box.
Everybody's playing tough these days, even accidentally. From The Athletic/NYT report on basketball top 25 this week and No. 10 Texas Tech. Once, I'd like to see an Athletic scribe cover the White House for a week, and, say, Glenn Thrush cover college hoops, then see whose copy reads better.