I figured I'd start a separate thread to report on progress of our recruits in the pipeline (all stats from Elite Prospects; projected arrival year from Heisenberg's list, or my best guess):
- Xavier Veillieux (arriving either fall '25 or '26), 6'1" defenseman, Muskegon (USHL) (3 G, 12 A, 19 games) -- 1st team All-USHL rookie team in '23-24; Islanders' 6th round pick in 2024 draft; former Harvard commit
- Reegan Hiscock ('25), 6'5" left wing -- Victoria (BCHL) (8 G, 18 A, 21 games) former Northeastern commit
- Henri Ament ('27) -- 5'11: forward, Shattuck St. Mary's prep (3 G, 5 A, 19 games) and Team Shattuck St. Mary (2 G, 3 A, 13 games)
- Samuel Peckham ('27) -- 5'11" defenseman, Team the Base (1 G, 0 A, 3 games) and Edina HS (0 G, 1 A, 2 games)
- Luca DiPlacido ('27 or '28) -- 6'1" defenseman, St. Andrew's College U18 (prep) (1 G, 5 A, 19 games) and St. Andrew's College (PHC League) (1 G, 3 A, 5 games)
- Jack Broderick ('27) -- 5'11" forward, Yale Junior Bulldogs (16 G, 21 A, 35 games)
- Maddex Marmulak ('26 or '27) -- 6'0" forward, Acadie-Bathurst (QMJHL) (7 G, 4 A, 20 games)
- Henry Major ('26 or '27) -- 5'8" forward, Chicago (USHL) (1 G, 6 A, 20 games)
- Michael Dec ('27) -- 5'9" forward, St. Andrew's College U18 prep (20 G, 21 A, 19 games) and St. Andrew's College (PHC League) (2 G, 6 A, 5 games)
- Erick Roest ('25) -- 6'0" goalie, Tri-City (USHL) (3.13 GAA, .886 sv pct., 15 games)
- Alex Pelletier ('25 or '26) -- 5'11" Left wing, Lincoln (USHL) (6 G, 6 A, 21 games)
- Cole Tuminaro ('26) -- 6'4" defenseman, Sioux City (USHL) (0 G, 0 A, 1 game)
- Aiden Long ('25) -- 6'2" forward, Madison (USHL) (6 G, 10 A, 19 games)
- Gio DiGiulian ('25 or '26), left winger, Lincoln (USHL) (10 G, 8 A, 21 games)
- Connor Arsenault ('26 or '27), left winger, Sioux City (USHL) (3 G, 0 A, 14 games) and Omaha (USHL) (0 G, 0 A, 2 games)
- Michael Sandruck ('25 or '26), 6'1" forward, Lincoln (USHL) (2 G, 1 A, 17 games)
- Hudson Gorski ('25 or '26), 6'3" defenseman, Chicago (USHL) (1 G, 3 A, 21 games)
- Donovan Hamilton ('26), 6'3" defenseman, Cedar Rapids (USHL) (0 G, 0 A, 8 games) and Salmon Arm (BCHL) (0 G, 2 A, 6 games)
- Chase Pirtle ('25), 6'2" forward, Victoria (BCHL) (13 G, 14 A, 21 games) - 2023-2024 BCHL rookie of the year
Overall, the recruits are producing, and we have more guys in the USHL then ever before (at least in my memory).
We have 5 graduating forwards. The forwards most likely to come next fall would be Hiscock, Pirtle, Long, Pelletier, and DiGiullian. All of them are putting up solid numbers this year, with Pirtle and DiGiullian seemingly the cream of the crop. On defense we are losing 3 senior regulars, so I would expect to see at least Veillieux and Gorski arrive in the fall, with Hamilton a possibility. New recruit Veillieux is surely the standout. Roest is putting up decent but not great numbers in the USHL, but with Shane departing he should be in the mix to compete with Keopple and Katz.
Of the guys further out in the pipeline, Dec looks like a big-time talent, with Marmulak putting up decent numbers in the Major Junior Canadian league. I think Henry Major will develop into a good player like his brother Charlie.
Quote from: scoop85I figured I'd start a separate thread to report on progress of our recruits in the pipeline (all stats from Elite Prospects; projected arrival year from Heisenberg's list, or my best guess):
- Xavier Veillieux (arriving either fall '25 or '26), 6'1" defenseman, Muskegon (USHL) (3 G, 12 A, 19 games) -- 1st team All-USHL rookie team in '23-24; Islanders' 6th round pick in 2024 draft; former Harvard commit
- Reegan Hiscock ('25), 6'5" left wing -- Victoria (BCHL) (8 G, 18 A, 21 games) former Northeastern commit
- Henri Ament ('27) -- 5'11: forward, Shattuck St. Mary's prep (3 G, 5 A, 19 games) and Team Shattuck St. Mary (2 G, 3 A, 13 games)
- Samuel Peckham ('27) -- 5'11" defenseman, Team the Base (1 G, 0 A, 3 games) and Edina HS (0 G, 1 A, 2 games)
- Luca DiPlacido ('27 or '28) -- 6'1" defenseman, St. Andrew's College U18 (prep) (1 G, 5 A, 19 games) and St. Andrew's College (PHC League) (1 G, 3 A, 5 games)
- Jack Broderick ('27) -- 5'11" forward, Yale Junior Bulldogs (16 G, 21 A, 35 games)
- Maddex Marmulak ('26 or '27) -- 6'0" forward, Acadie-Bathurst (QMJHL) (7 G, 4 A, 20 games)
- Henry Major ('26 or '27) -- 5'8" forward, Chicago (USHL) (1 G, 6 A, 20 games)
- Michael Dec ('27) -- 5'9" forward, St. Andrew's College U18 prep (20 G, 21 A, 19 games) and St. Andrew's College (PHC League) (2 G, 6 A, 5 games)
- Erick Roest ('25) -- 6'0" goalie, Tri-City (USHL) (3.13 GAA, .886 sv pct., 15 games)
- Alex Pelletier ('25 or '26) -- 5'11" Left wing, Lincoln (USHL) (6 G, 6 A, 21 games)
- Cole Tuminaro ('26) -- 6'4" defenseman, Sioux City (USHL) (0 G, 0 A, 1 game)
- Aiden Long ('25) -- 6'2" forward, Madison (USHL) (6 G, 10 A, 19 games)
- Gio DiGiulian ('25 or '26), left winger, Lincoln (USHL) (10 G, 8 A, 21 games)
- Connor Arsenault ('26 or '27), left winger, Sioux City (USHL) (3 G, 0 A, 14 games) and Omaha (USHL) (0 G, 0 A, 2 games)
- Michael Sandruck ('25 or '26), 6'1" forward, Lincoln (USHL) (2 G, 1 A, 17 games)
- Hudson Gorski ('25 or '26), 6'3" defenseman, Chicago (USHL) (1 G, 3 A, 21 games)
- Donovan Hamilton ('26), 6'3" defenseman, Cedar Rapids (USHL) (0 G, 0 A, 8 games) and Salmon Arm (BCHL) (0 G, 2 A, 6 games)
- Chase Pirtle ('25), 6'2" forward, Victoria (BCHL) (13 G, 14 A, 21 games) - 2023-2024 BCHL rookie of the year
Overall, the recruits are producing, and we have more guys in the USHL then ever before (at least in my memory).
We have 5 graduating forwards. The forwards most likely to come next fall would be Hiscock, Pirtle, Long, Pelletier, and DiGiullian. All of them are putting up solid numbers this year, with Pirtle and DiGiullian seemingly the cream of the crop. On defense we are losing 3 senior regulars, so I would expect to see at least Veillieux and Gorski arrive in the fall, with Hamilton a possibility. New recruit Veillieux is surely the standout. Roest is putting up decent but not great numbers in the USHL, but with Shane departing he should be in the mix to compete with Keopple and Katz.
Of the guys further out in the pipeline, Dec looks like a big-time talent, with Marmulak putting up decent numbers in the Major Junior Canadian league. I think Henry Major will develop into a good player like his brother Charlie.
Thanks, I was typing out something similar but you scooped me again. I generally agree with you. Veilleux, Pirtle, Long, DiGiulian, Dec, Major should all immediately contribute once they matriculate. The latter two will take at least another year, but Dec is putting up huge numbers at St. Andrews and Major is outpacing his brother at this point in Charlie's career. Pelletier could contribute immediately too, and if he spends another year in the USHL after this season before coming that is especially likely (but as you say, with Cornell graduating five forwards, I guess he'll arrive next season unless we get another late '05/'04 commit in the meantime). Tuminaro was the only player listed this year by NHL Central Scouting as a "player to watch," but he appears to be out long term with an injury.
The biggest worry is goaltending. Shane is graduating and none of the three between Keoppel, Katz, and Roest jump out as a clear successor. With three shots, likely at least one of them will be good...I hope...
Quote from: BearLoverThe biggest worry is goaltending. Shane is graduating and none of the three between Keoppel, Katz, and Roest jump out as a clear successor. With three shots, likely at least one of them will be good...I hope...
Agreed, goaltending seems like the biggest question mark. Our recent history suggests that someone will step-up and seize the position. Shane didn't seem to be a sure thing coming out of juniors, having gone from the USHL to the less competitive AJHL, and we've seen how that turned out. Hopefully one of these guys takes a similar trajectory.
I would wager that keopple takes the job next year and is followed by roest.
I'm getting worried. The coaching staff evidently has no faith in either Keoppel or Katz, and our goalie recruit coming in next season (Erick Roest) currently has a .884 sv% in the USHL.
Quote from: BearLoverI'm getting worried. The coaching staff evidently has no faith in either Keoppel or Katz, and our goalie recruit coming in next season (Erick Roest) currently has a .884 sv% in the USHL.
Historically, our system has suppressed shots therebye making the goalies look perhaps better than they actually are. Hasn't been happening this year with a few exceptions. Didn't we lose to Yale while allowing like 10 shots? Shane has become the king of the 12 shot shutout. Team game after all.
FWIW Roest's numbers are better than the other goalie on the Tri-City Storm
Quote from: arugulaShane has become the king of the 12 shot shutout.
Let's look (http://www.tbrw.info/?/games/cornell_Shutouts.html) at that.
Scrivens 19 570 30.0
Gillam 11 295 26.8
Galajda 19 425 22.4
[b]Shane 12 254 21.2[/b]
Dryden 13 263 20.2
Kennedy 10 174 17.4
LeNeveu 11 174 15.8
McKee 18 292 16.2
Shane is dead center.
Quote from: TrotskyQuote from: arugulaShane has become the king of the 12 shot shutout.
Let's look (http://www.tbrw.info/?/games/cornell_Shutouts.html) at that.Scrivens 19 570 30.0
Gillam 11 295 26.8
Galajda 19 425 22.4
[b]Shane 12 254 21.2[/b]
Dryden 13 263 20.2
Kennedy 10 174 17.4
LeNeveu 11 174 15.8
McKee 18 292 16.2
Shane is dead center.
Ok not the king, one of several princes. That's some outstanding shot suppression.
Quote from: TrotskyQuote from: arugulaShane has become the king of the 12 shot shutout.
Let's look (http://www.tbrw.info/?/games/cornell_Shutouts.html) at that.Scrivens 19 570 30.0
Gillam 11 295 26.8
Galajda 19 425 22.4
[b]Shane 12 254 21.2[/b]
Dryden 13 263 20.2
Kennedy 10 174 17.4
LeNeveu 11 174 15.8
McKee 18 292 16.2
Shane is dead center.
Scrivens also holds the NHL record for most saves in a shutout with 59.
Not included in the above shutouts, but noteworthy, is McKee's 59 saves before giving up a goal on shot number 60 against Wisconsin in 2006.
Quote from: jkahnNot included in the above shutouts, but noteworthy, is McKee's 59 saves before giving up a goal on shot number 60 against Wisconsin in 2006.
I hurt myself today to see if I still feel.
Quote from: jkahnQuote from: TrotskyQuote from: arugulaShane has become the king of the 12 shot shutout.
Let's look (http://www.tbrw.info/?/games/cornell_Shutouts.html) at that.Scrivens 19 570 30.0
Gillam 11 295 26.8
Galajda 19 425 22.4
[b]Shane 12 254 21.2[/b]
Dryden 13 263 20.2
Kennedy 10 174 17.4
LeNeveu 11 174 15.8
McKee 18 292 16.2
Shane is dead center.
Scrivens also holds the NHL record for most saves in a shutout with 59.
Not included in the above shutouts, but noteworthy, is McKee's 59 saves before giving up a goal on shot number 60 against Wisconsin in 2006.
That one broke my heart in 59 places.
Quote from: arugulaQuote from: jkahnQuote from: TrotskyQuote from: arugulaShane has become the king of the 12 shot shutout.
Let's look (http://www.tbrw.info/?/games/cornell_Shutouts.html) at that.Scrivens 19 570 30.0
Gillam 11 295 26.8
Galajda 19 425 22.4
[b]Shane 12 254 21.2[/b]
Dryden 13 263 20.2
Kennedy 10 174 17.4
LeNeveu 11 174 15.8
McKee 18 292 16.2
Shane is dead center.
Scrivens also holds the NHL record for most saves in a shutout with 59.
Not included in the above shutouts, but noteworthy, is McKee's 59 saves before giving up a goal on shot number 60 against Wisconsin in 2006.
That one broke my heart in 59 places.
I remember driving 4 hours to Chicago right after that game ended Thinking about the result the entire way.
Quote from: Jeff Hopkins '82I remember driving 4 hours to Chicago right after that game ended Thinking about the result the entire way.
I'll never get over Macho Grande (http://www.tbrw.info/seasons/2005/box20050327.pdf).
Quote from: TrotskyQuote from: Jeff Hopkins '82I remember driving 4 hours to Chicago right after that game ended Thinking about the result the entire way.
I'll never get over Macho Grande (http://www.tbrw.info/seasons/2005/box20050327.pdf).
Yeah, hated that game.
The Wisconsin fans were cool. The Goofer fans were just assholes.
And of course love the Airplane! reference.
After this season 4 D, 5 F, and 1 G graduate. (That includes Jimmy Rahill, so functionally perhaps just 3 D will need to be replaced.) I suspect they will be replaced by the following matriculating freshmen:
G Erick Roest, as mentioned above, is having a tough year in the USHL (.884 sv%) but also as mentioned above, the other goalie on his team has even worse numbers, so unclear how much of it is his fault. In any case, goaltending is by far the biggest question mark going into next season.
For the forwards, Pirtle, DiGiulian, Long, Pelletier, Hiscock are all putting up solid numbers in their leagues. Should be a fairly deep forward class (replacing a deep forward class.)
For the D, 6th round draft pick Vellieux will play right away and Gorski, seemingly having a decent year in the USHL, will likely come too. Then we probably need at least one more D, but of the '05s neither McCrady nor Hamilton are putting up numbers and both were recently traded by the junior teams (perhaps an inauspicious sign). McCrady is a recent commit so clearly the coaching staff saw something there. It's also possible Cornell will pick up another D recruit before next season or just roll with 9 total next year. (In an ideal world we would get up to 10 D to not take on much injury risk.)
The NHL Central Scouting Midterm Rankings dropped today. Similar to the preliminary rankings, the only Cornell recruit on the list is Cole Tuminaro. This time he is listed under "Limited Viewing," as he has evidently been injured the entire season (he is listed as having appeared in one game, months ago). It must be a bad injury for him to be out this long. Really rough for him that it happened in his draft year.
I would like to see us utilize the CHL more for recruiting. We're known for being an older, very Canadian team which in theory should help us get aging out CHL guys. Instead we've only committed one young kid from there. Looking at clarksons recruits, they have 3 studs set to come in next year from the CHL, Adrian misaljevic, who is over 1 ppg in the OHL, Jackson parsons who is over a .920 save percentage in the OHL, and oven van steensel who is having a "down" year but had 41 goals and 86 points in 65 games last year in the OHL. Clarkson does have the advantage of being closer to Ontario but we have the advantage of being the better hockey school and should be competitive for guys of a similar caliber. We are still losing more guys than we will bring in next year so there is room to add but I will be disappointed if we only bring in nobody from the CHL. It is especially important to win these recruiting battles now to set ourselves as a known school to go to from the CHL in the future.
I was a CHL fan for several years out in Portland and I have had experience with the players. I am going to put this as tastefully and kindly as possible.
There are tree stumps in Newfie bogs with better grades.
If they had an idea, it would die of loneliness.
The porch light's on, but no one's home.
They've only got one oar in the water.
If brains were leather, they wouldn't have enough to saddle a Hawthorn spider mite.
They're so dumb, they could throw themselves on the ground and miss.
They aint got the sense Agudar gave a goose.
Their brains rattle around like a BB in a CN Rail boxcar.
They're so dumb they couldn't pour piss out of a La Canadienne with the instructions written on the heel.
When Agudar was handing out brains, they thought She said trains, and they passed cause they don't like to travel.
They don't know shit from shinola.
If their brains were dynamite, they couldn't blow their nose.
They'll be matriculating at Quinnipiac.
Kepler,
In the future, players will go the CHL route because it is better hockey, and it won't close the NCAA option. This will hurt the BCHL and to a lesser extent the USHL. It is already happening. For example, RPI recruit Jack Ziliotto recently left Trail (BCHL) and is now in Sudbury (OHL).
I don't think there is an Ivy rule (yet) that disqualifies CHL players. According to Heisenberg's list, Princeton has two OHL commits.
Quote from: ursusminorKepler,
In the future, players will go the CHL route because it is better hockey, and it won't close the NCAA option. This will hurt the BCHL and to a lesser extent the USHL. It is already happening. For example, RPI recruit Jack Ziliotto recently left Trail (BCHL) and is now in Sudbury (OHL).
I don't think there is an Ivy rule (yet) that disqualifies CHL players. According to Heisenberg's list, Princeton has two OHL commits.
I hope this is how it plays out - but even so, some of the CHL dolts will matriculate at QPuke. They aren't going to make it at RPI or Cornell.
Quote from: ursusminorKepler,
In the future, players will go the CHL route because it is better hockey, and it won't close the NCAA option.
This is possible. I think what's likely is kids who have tried to set themselves up for the NHL by playing CHL 16-19 are not good enough, and not good enough to burn their team's limited 20 slots, so they will then catch on in the NC$$ to get a degree. Those will also be ones who are more motivated. Their experience playing long seasons (100 GP including playoffs) against the best players of their age in the world will make them dominant NC$$ contributors and natural leaders.
Some of them might make the nut at Cornell. It is worth exploring.
But the really high flying CHL guys wouldn't know what to do with a book if they had a wobbly table.
Quote from: chimpfoodI would like to see us utilize the CHL more for recruiting. We're known for being an older, very Canadian team which in theory should help us get aging out CHL guys. Instead we've only committed one young kid from there. Looking at clarksons recruits, they have 3 studs set to come in next year from the CHL, Adrian misaljevic, who is over 1 ppg in the OHL, Jackson parsons who is over a .920 save percentage in the OHL, and oven van steensel who is having a "down" year but had 41 goals and 86 points in 65 games last year in the OHL. Clarkson does have the advantage of being closer to Ontario but we have the advantage of being the better hockey school and should be competitive for guys of a similar caliber. We are still losing more guys than we will bring in next year so there is room to add but I will be disappointed if we only bring in nobody from the CHL. It is especially important to win these recruiting battles now to set ourselves as a known school to go to from the CHL in the future.
We have 2 recruits playing in the CHL- Marmalek and Dec.
Quote from: ursusminorKepler,
In the future, players will go the CHL route because it is better hockey, and it won't close the NCAA option. This will hurt the BCHL and to a lesser extent the USHL. It is already happening. For example, RPI recruit Jack Ziliotto recently left Trail (BCHL) and is now in Sudbury (OHL).
I don't think there is an Ivy rule (yet) that disqualifies CHL players. According to Heisenberg's list, Princeton has two OHL commits.
I think the recent decision of the NCAA to allow the CHL players to play NCAA hockey is going to be pivotal here. The CHL is better than the USHL (except if you make USNTDP); the NCAA is better than the CHL. Would not be surprised if, once this begins to shake out, we see talented (i.e. NHL draft pick) players go to the CHL for their 16, 17 year old seasons and then jump to the NCAA for their 18, 19, 20 seasons to have better competition for their draft year and beyond. Also, CHL players "aging out" of the CHL will often be going to the NCAA for further development if they don't get drafted/can't make the jump to the AHL, though we would probably not be recruiting as much from that pool. It's already starting now - my QMJHL team (this is when you know I'm certifiably insane), the Voltigeurs, have had their overagers announce college commitments - two guys going to UNH, another Nebraska-Omaha. It's going to be a bumpy ride for the next few years as a "standard operating procedure" gets put into place, but if there are intelligent CHL players we can profit from, it can go a long way.
(Also, where do you find the list of commits? I need to keep tabs on our Little Red...)
stereax: see Chris Heisenberg's list
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1USsyO-hgQhC4JD5HGGUDkgm_1qUeEWbhB-EyceEwTSI/htmlview#
Since you are apparently not familiar with this, let me add that Chris's grandfather was Werner.
Also note that Cornell had a commitment yesterday.
Quote from: ursusminorstereax: see Chris Heisenberg's list
Since you are apparently not familiar with this, let me add that Chris's grandfather was Werner.
Surely You're Joking, Mr. Feynman! or are you? I'm not certain.
.
Quote from: George64Quote from: ursusminorstereax: see Chris Heisenberg's list
Since you are apparently not familiar with this, let me add that Chris's grandfather was Werner.
Surely You're Joking, Mr. Feynman! or are you? I'm not certain.
.
I am not unless you are making a joke about the Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle. Chris's father is Jochen Heisenberg who is an Emeritus Prof at UNH. Chris is a lawyer and a grad of UNH and BC law school. https://www.hinckley.org/Heisenberg.php
It remains to be seen how the CHL will change recruiting for Cornell. As mentioned above, Clarkson, Quinnipiac, and a host of other schools have already begun loading up on CHL overagers. Cornell has a couple of players in the CHL, but they're younger players who this season moved to the CHL instead of going to the BCHL or USHL. We've yet to see if Cornell is competitive for the 20-y/os whose CHL eligibility has run out.
It would be really great to get a sense from the coaching staff what their recruiting approach is going to be. I don't mean euphemisms like "we like kids with good hockey sense," I mean how will we be allocating resources and how exactly do we plan to be competitive for the CHL kids? I ask because it seems like Cornell is continuing to recruit 18- and 19-year olds from the BCHL with numbers that don't jump off the page. But the standard is much higher now with the far larger pool of potential recruits. It's one thing for the Cornell coaches to suggest to a pre-existing recruit that he should play for a CHL team (instead of eg. BCHL/USHL), it's another to recruit kids who are already in the CHL, which Cornell hasn't done yet.
Quote from: ursusminorQuote from: George64Quote from: ursusminorstereax: see Chris Heisenberg's list
Since you are apparently not familiar with this, let me add that Chris's grandfather was Werner.
Surely You're Joking, Mr. Feynman! or are you? I'm not certain.
.
I am not unless you are making a joke about the Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle. Chris's father is Jochen Heisenberg who is an Emeritus Prof at UNH. Chris is a lawyer and a grad of UNH and BC law school. https://www.hinckley.org/Heisenberg.php
Thanks, I was genuinely curious and wanted to know for sure. There's more than enough uncertainty in the world today.
.
CHL players will make their way to the ECAC... and more so to the Michigans and BUs. I see the players that WOULD have gone to the Michigans and BUs as more likely to arrive on East Hill, CHL 20 year olds who otherwise might have hung them up to filter to Quinnipiac or Long Island University, or some such. CHL, and the BCHL and USHL are still going to be good development leagues based on the amount of games they play alone. That is a very enticing schedule for a young hockey player.
Quote from: ursusminorstereax: see Chris Heisenberg's list
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1USsyO-hgQhC4JD5HGGUDkgm_1qUeEWbhB-EyceEwTSI/htmlview#
Since you are apparently not familiar with this, let me add that Chris's grandfather was Werner.
Also note that Cornell had a commitment yesterday.
Not familiar at all. Researching now. Wow! Thanks for the info <3
Quote from: stereaxwhere do you find the list of commits? I need to keep tabs on our Little Red
http://www.tbrw.info/?/seasons/2025/2025_Future_Players.html
Quote from: TrotskyQuote from: stereaxwhere do you find the list of commits? I need to keep tabs on our Little Red
http://www.tbrw.info/?/seasons/2025/2025_Future_Players.html
missing: https://www.pentictonvees.ca/forward-louie-wehmann-commits-to-cornell
Quote from: stereaxwhere do you find the list of commits? I need to keep tabs on our Little Red
https://www.eliteprospects.com/team/5692/ithaca-high
Since CHL players were deemed eligible for the NCAAs, Quinnipiac and Clarkson have each had four '04 or '05 birth year commitments from the CHL (i.e. players who are aging out of major juniors). Really hope Cornell can compete for this type of recruit or else we are going to be at a big disadvantage.
Quote from: BearLoverSince CHL players were deemed eligible for the NCAAs, Quinnipiac and Clarkson have each had four '04 or '05 birth year commitments from the CHL (i.e. players who are aging out of major juniors). Really hope Cornell can compete for this type of recruit or else we are going to be at a big disadvantage.
Going to assume that the academic standards aren't going to help us in this respect. I see it looks like Princeton recruited some '04s from the OHL, so it doesn't seem like there's a blanket ban against it in the Ivies.
Quote from: BearLoverSince CHL players were deemed eligible for the NCAAs, Quinnipiac and Clarkson have each had four '04 or '05 birth year commitments from the CHL (i.e. players who are aging out of major juniors). Really hope Cornell can compete for this type of recruit or else we are going to be at a big disadvantage.
I'd be surprised if we aren't competitive in the CHL market with the same caliber of players we have traditionally recruited from the USHL and BCHL, etc. It will take some time to sort all this out.
It will still come down to grades. Much easier to get kids into Harvard/Princeton than Cornell
Quote from: upprdeckIt will still come down to grades. Much easier to get kids into Harvard/Princeton than Cornell
What?
Quote from: BearLoverQuote from: upprdeckIt will still come down to grades. Much easier to get kids into Harvard/Princeton than Cornell
What?
what is the question. You dont know that its true.
Quote from: upprdeckQuote from: BearLoverQuote from: upprdeckIt will still come down to grades. Much easier to get kids into Harvard/Princeton than Cornell
What?
what is the question. You dont know that it's true.
The question is: "why is it much easier to get athletes into Harvard/Princeton than Cornell, and what have you seen that supports this notion"? Cornell is a much larger school that is easier for non-athletes to get into than H/P. Why would it be the opposite for athletes?
because you don't understand how admissions work for athletes I guess. Dont assume they all get in under the same rules as the general population.
Quote from: upprdeckbecause you don't understand how admissions work for athletes I guess. Dont assume they all get in under the same rules as the general population.
i thought the ivy index was scaled by school to the admissions for genpop
Quote from: upprdeckbecause you don't understand how admissions work for athletes I guess. Dont assume they all get in under the same rules as the general population.
I'm asking you the question lol, I'm not saying I know anything. I've never heard this view and it conflicts with general characteristics of the schools in question so that's why I'm asking.
My information is from a friend who was the swim coach at a rival Ivy. Having said that it's a few years old - it's possible things have changed. But here goes: The Ivy League still utilized something equivalent to an academic index or AI, to judge student athlete potential. The AI is a combo of gpa and test scores, with test scores weighted more heavily. There is a minimum AI for each student athlete, though each school has one "wild card" if you will, basically no academic standards for 1 admit, say like the the quarterback of the football team.
Additionally, each athletic team's AI must be within one standard deviation of the average AI for the student body. Hence the utility of the "gpa benchwarmer" a role my brother-in-law sarcastically says he fulfilled on the soccer team at his Ivy.
Not sure if student body AI is determined within a college or for the whole undergraduate populations, but I suspect it's by college. So those are the 2 academic constraints for a teaming doing recruiting.
There is not a huge difference in grades and test scores between Cornell and the top Ivies: HYP. So I kinda doubt it would make much difference in recruiting. However it doesn't make sense to me that HYP would be easier. My thought is that HYP would have an advantage in the amount of financial aid they offer - more than Cornell, as I don't believe Cornell can up financial aid on an individual basis to make admission more attractive to a student-athlete.
Quote from: SnowballMy information is from a friend who was the swim coach at a rival Ivy. Having said that it's a few years old - it's possible things have changed. But here goes: The Ivy League still utilized something equivalent to an academic index or AI, to judge student athlete potential. The AI is a combo of gpa and test scores, with test scores weighted more heavily. There is a minimum AI for each student athlete, though each school has one "wild card" if you will, basically no academic standards for 1 admit, say like the the quarterback of the football team.
Additionally, each athletic team's AI must be within one standard deviation of the average AI for the student body. Hence the utility of the "gpa benchwarmer" a role my brother-in-law sarcastically says he fulfilled on the soccer team at his Ivy.
Not sure if student body AI is determined within a college or for the whole undergraduate populations, but I suspect it's by college. So those are the 2 academic constraints for a teaming doing recruiting.
There is not a huge difference in grades and test scores between Cornell and the top Ivies: HYP. So I kinda doubt it would make much difference in recruiting. However it doesn't make sense to me that HYP would be easier. My thought is that HYP would have an advantage in the amount of financial aid they offer - more than Cornell, as I don't believe Cornell can up financial aid on an individual basis to make admission more attractive to a student-athlete.
This is my understanding as well. It should be (marginally) easier to get an athlete into Cornell than HYP. The financial aid thing you mention is true, but upprdeck was talking about academic requirements, not aid. He said: "It will still come down to grades. Much easier to get kids into Harvard/Princeton than Cornell." And that just doesn't make much sense.
Aid does make a difference in a small group of kids.
admissions make a difference in another group of kids
Location makes a difference
degrees offered makes a difference
if you only bring in 6-8 kids a yr and you have one in each group thats half your class.
I have heard every permutation of Ivies (x, y) in the sentence "this player got admitted to x and denied by y."
It comes down to which coaches have the clout to get numbnuts guys in, when, and where. It happens. It happens far more frequently at non-Ivies. Shrug.
Quote from: BearLoverSince CHL players were deemed eligible for the NCAAs, Quinnipiac and Clarkson have each had four '04 or '05 birth year commitments from the CHL (i.e. players who are aging out of major juniors). Really hope Cornell can compete for this type of recruit or else we are going to be at a big disadvantage.
I wonder if the Ivies will all end up a few years behind on CHL recruiting in terms of volume, particularly from the older cohorts. What I mean is we'll see Q and Clarkson and others recruiting a lot more players from the older CHL cohort than the ivies as a whole.
My theory here is the current CHL players chose their paths based on the old rules, so most of the guys who could play college hockey and had the grades/scores to get into an ivy already went D1, and what's left in the oldest cohorts in the CHL is pretty slim pickings.
Obviously I have no idea if this is true or not, or if it matters given the larger player pool, but it wouldn't surprise me.
Quote from: Tom LentoQuote from: BearLoverSince CHL players were deemed eligible for the NCAAs, Quinnipiac and Clarkson have each had four '04 or '05 birth year commitments from the CHL (i.e. players who are aging out of major juniors). Really hope Cornell can compete for this type of recruit or else we are going to be at a big disadvantage.
I wonder if the Ivies will all end up a few years behind on CHL recruiting in terms of volume, particularly from the older cohorts. What I mean is we'll see Q and Clarkson and others recruiting a lot more players from the older CHL cohort than the ivies as a whole.
My theory here is the current CHL players chose their paths based on the old rules, so most of the guys who could play college hockey and had the grades/scores to get into an ivy already went D1, and what's left in the oldest cohorts in the CHL is pretty slim pickings.
Obviously I have no idea if this is true or not, or if it matters given the larger player pool, but it wouldn't surprise me.
Most of the guys who could play college hockey would have had to choose BCHL/USHL at 15-16 over CHL, and Canadians are notably allergic to college hockey - Celebrini is a major outlier in this regard. I do agree that the Ivies will be slower with the overager influx, though. We'll see where it goes.
Quote from: Tom LentoQuote from: BearLoverSince CHL players were deemed eligible for the NCAAs, Quinnipiac and Clarkson have each had four '04 or '05 birth year commitments from the CHL (i.e. players who are aging out of major juniors). Really hope Cornell can compete for this type of recruit or else we are going to be at a big disadvantage.
I wonder if the Ivies will all end up a few years behind on CHL recruiting in terms of volume, particularly from the older cohorts. What I mean is we'll see Q and Clarkson and others recruiting a lot more players from the older CHL cohort than the ivies as a whole.
My theory here is the current CHL players chose their paths based on the old rules, so most of the guys who could play college hockey and had the grades/scores to get into an ivy already went D1, and what's left in the oldest cohorts in the CHL is pretty slim pickings.
Obviously I have no idea if this is true or not, or if it matters given the larger player pool, but it wouldn't surprise me.
We get the guys who would have gone to an Ivy, but chose Michigan or BU or Wisconsin because of "better" hockey. The ones with grades who chose hockey get pushed to a great school with a historic program.. but like, not AS good.
Quote from: stereaxQuote from: Tom LentoQuote from: BearLoverSince CHL players were deemed eligible for the NCAAs, Quinnipiac and Clarkson have each had four '04 or '05 birth year commitments from the CHL (i.e. players who are aging out of major juniors). Really hope Cornell can compete for this type of recruit or else we are going to be at a big disadvantage.
I wonder if the Ivies will all end up a few years behind on CHL recruiting in terms of volume, particularly from the older cohorts. What I mean is we'll see Q and Clarkson and others recruiting a lot more players from the older CHL cohort than the ivies as a whole.
My theory here is the current CHL players chose their paths based on the old rules, so most of the guys who could play college hockey and had the grades/scores to get into an ivy already went D1, and what's left in the oldest cohorts in the CHL is pretty slim pickings.
Obviously I have no idea if this is true or not, or if it matters given the larger player pool, but it wouldn't surprise me.
Most of the guys who could play college hockey would have had to choose BCHL/USHL at 15-16 over CHL, and Canadians are notably allergic to college hockey - Celebrini is a major outlier in this regard. I do agree that the Ivies will be slower with the overager influx, though. We'll see where it goes.
This has changed quite a bit over the years, and Celebrini is hardly the only outlier. It goes as far back as Jonathan Toews, but has picked up steam in recent years, including Owen Power and Adam Fantilli, most notably, in the few years before Celebrini. Oh, and Cale Makar.
Quote from: adamwQuote from: stereaxQuote from: Tom LentoQuote from: BearLoverSince CHL players were deemed eligible for the NCAAs, Quinnipiac and Clarkson have each had four '04 or '05 birth year commitments from the CHL (i.e. players who are aging out of major juniors). Really hope Cornell can compete for this type of recruit or else we are going to be at a big disadvantage.
I wonder if the Ivies will all end up a few years behind on CHL recruiting in terms of volume, particularly from the older cohorts. What I mean is we'll see Q and Clarkson and others recruiting a lot more players from the older CHL cohort than the ivies as a whole.
My theory here is the current CHL players chose their paths based on the old rules, so most of the guys who could play college hockey and had the grades/scores to get into an ivy already went D1, and what's left in the oldest cohorts in the CHL is pretty slim pickings.
Obviously I have no idea if this is true or not, or if it matters given the larger player pool, but it wouldn't surprise me.
Most of the guys who could play college hockey would have had to choose BCHL/USHL at 15-16 over CHL, and Canadians are notably allergic to college hockey - Celebrini is a major outlier in this regard. I do agree that the Ivies will be slower with the overager influx, though. We'll see where it goes.
This has changed quite a bit over the years, and Celebrini is hardly the only outlier. It goes as far back as Jonathan Toews, but has picked up steam in recent years, including Owen Power and Adam Fantilli, most notably, in the few years before Celebrini. Oh, and Cale Makar.
TIL Fantilli is Canadian... I swear I thought he was from the US.
That's definitely true, and maybe I did misspeak, but it's also true that there is a bit of a stigma against NCAA hockey for Canadians. It's been theorized that one of the reasons Celebrini wasn't as hyped coming into the draft as Bedard was because he was in NCAA hockey; additionally, if you look at the Canadian WJC roster this year, a few of the major snubs like Misa are slated to play NCAA, which is eyebrow-raising. Then again, the Canadian roster-building philosophy is interesting, to say the least. There's definitely some sort of politics going around with the CHL, though.
Quote from: stereaxQuote from: adamwQuote from: stereaxQuote from: Tom LentoQuote from: BearLoverSince CHL players were deemed eligible for the NCAAs, Quinnipiac and Clarkson have each had four '04 or '05 birth year commitments from the CHL (i.e. players who are aging out of major juniors). Really hope Cornell can compete for this type of recruit or else we are going to be at a big disadvantage.
I wonder if the Ivies will all end up a few years behind on CHL recruiting in terms of volume, particularly from the older cohorts. What I mean is we'll see Q and Clarkson and others recruiting a lot more players from the older CHL cohort than the ivies as a whole.
My theory here is the current CHL players chose their paths based on the old rules, so most of the guys who could play college hockey and had the grades/scores to get into an ivy already went D1, and what's left in the oldest cohorts in the CHL is pretty slim pickings.
Obviously I have no idea if this is true or not, or if it matters given the larger player pool, but it wouldn't surprise me.
Most of the guys who could play college hockey would have had to choose BCHL/USHL at 15-16 over CHL, and Canadians are notably allergic to college hockey - Celebrini is a major outlier in this regard. I do agree that the Ivies will be slower with the overager influx, though. We'll see where it goes.
This has changed quite a bit over the years, and Celebrini is hardly the only outlier. It goes as far back as Jonathan Toews, but has picked up steam in recent years, including Owen Power and Adam Fantilli, most notably, in the few years before Celebrini. Oh, and Cale Makar.
TIL Fantilli is Canadian... I swear I thought he was from the US.
That's definitely true, and maybe I did misspeak, but it's also true that there is a bit of a stigma against NCAA hockey for Canadians. It's been theorized that one of the reasons Celebrini wasn't as hyped coming into the draft as Bedard was because he was in NCAA hockey; additionally, if you look at the Canadian WJC roster this year, a few of the major snubs like Misa are slated to play NCAA, which is eyebrow-raising. Then again, the Canadian roster-building philosophy is interesting, to say the least. There's definitely some sort of politics going around with the CHL, though.
you're not saying anything new or mysterious that hasn't been said for 50 years. but fact is, it's way different than it used to be - and it started happening many years before Celebrini. And really, who cares about "hype" - he was picked No. 1 overall, so clearly no one in the NHL cared about "hype."