ELynah Forum

Time for a new recruiting thread.

Goalie Erick Roest, who's a 2024 recruit, was the starting goalie for Canada West who won gold at the World Junior A Challenge in Nova Scotia. Roest stopped 30 of 32 shots in the championship game as Canada West beat Canada East 7-2. Roest stopped 37 shots in Canada West's 4-3 OT upset over the U.S. in the semifinal.

Fellow Cornell recruits Aiden Long, a forward, and Nick Wolfenberg, a defenseman, also won gold, but I don't believe either of them got a point during the tournament.

Both wins were upsets.  Canada West was 4 of 5 in the group round (https://www.hockeycanada.ca/en-ca/national-championships/men/world-junior-a/2023/stats/team-standings).

If I'm reading this (https://www.hockeycanada.ca/en-ca/national-championships/men/world-junior-a/2023/stats/team-rosters?teamid=36) right, neither Long nor Wolfenberg were on the final roster. They and Roest all made the 2022 Canada West (https://www.hockeycanada.ca/en-ca/national-championships/men/world-junior-a/2022/stats/team-rosters?teamid=36) roster and played.

Quote from: TrotskyBoth wins were upsets.  Canada West was 4 of 5 in the group round (https://www.hockeycanada.ca/en-ca/national-championships/men/world-junior-a/2023/stats/team-standings).

If I'm reading this (https://www.hockeycanada.ca/en-ca/national-championships/men/world-junior-a/2023/stats/team-rosters?teamid=36) right, neither Long nor Wolfenberg were on the final roster. They and Roest all made the 2022 Canada West (https://www.hockeycanada.ca/en-ca/national-championships/men/world-junior-a/2022/stats/team-rosters?teamid=36) roster and played.

Ok, that makes sense. I misread the 2023 roster.

Forward Parker Murray from Chilliwack of the BCHL has committed to Cornell. He's a 20 year old 6'5" power forward who has a heavy shot. He's the son of longtime NHLer Glen Murray.

Seems like we have a lot of guys set to come in and not many set to leave, curious to see what happens.

Quote from: scoop85Forward Parker Murray from Chilliwack of the BCHL has committed to Cornell. He's a 20 year old 6'5" power forward who has a heavy shot. He's the son of longtime NHLer Glen Murray.

2 inches taller than our last Murray with a heavy shot. Sounds good to me.

From Manhattan Beach, CA (https://www.eliteprospects.com/player/512188/parker-murray), like Ian Shane.  But no apparent overlap of teams.

Nice article (https://bchl.ca/nhl-bloodlines-parker-murray) despite the mention of Boston.

Quote from: TrotskyNice article (https://bchl.ca/nhl-bloodlines-parker-murray) despite the mention of Boston.

Quote from: Parker Murray"I want a school that will give me an opportunity to be able to be me and not transform me into someone else."

I dunno. When he comes to Cornell, Mike is likely to want him to improve his defensive game.

Perhaps he wants to be a great two-way player and have a 12-year NHL career like Manderville.

Quote from: Swampy

Quote from: TrotskyNice article (https://bchl.ca/nhl-bloodlines-parker-murray) despite the mention of Boston.

Quote from: Parker Murray"I want a school that will give me an opportunity to be able to be me and not transform me into someone else."

I dunno. When he comes to Cornell, Mike is likely to want him to improve his defensive game.

Maybe he means that he wants to go to class.

Quote from: ugarte

Quote from: Swampy

Quote from: TrotskyNice article (https://bchl.ca/nhl-bloodlines-parker-murray) despite the mention of Boston.

Quote from: Parker Murray"I want a school that will give me an opportunity to be able to be me and not transform me into someone else."

I dunno. When he comes to Cornell, Mike is likely to want him to improve his defensive game.

Maybe he means that he wants to go to class.

[video]https://giphy.com/gifs/rodneydangerfield-class-back-to-school-xUPGcwyI0Ux0augrJe[/video]

Murray scored 4 goals in a bchl playoff game last year.   Not bad.

And then he scored 4 more goals in the very next game.

Can we have this version of him, please?

Renovation (https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=8m_KIr_YvEQ&pp=ygUOQ29ybmVsbCBzcG9ydHM%3D) from Cornell Sports.

Quote from: martyRenovation (https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=8m_KIr_YvEQ&pp=ygUOQ29ybmVsbCBzcG9ydHM%3D) from Cornell Sports.

Looks great.

That was really done well.  Damn, Derraugh looks amazing.  Dude hasn't aged a day in the last 20 years.

Quote from: abmarksMurray scored 4 goals in a bchl playoff game last year.   Not bad.

And then he scored 4 more goals in the very next game.

Can we have this version of him, please?

Whoops

Quote from: CU2007

Quote from: abmarksMurray scored 4 goals in a bchl playoff game last year.   Not bad.

And then he scored 4 more goals in the very next game.

Can we have this version of him, please?

Whoops

whoops?

Quote from: abmarks

Quote from: CU2007

Quote from: abmarksMurray scored 4 goals in a bchl playoff game last year.   Not bad.

And then he scored 4 more goals in the very next game.

Can we have this version of him, please?

Whoops

whoops?

He meant to post in "Other Sports".

A mid-season update on our listed recruits:

• Erick Roest, G, Sherwood Park Crusaders (AJHL) -- 28 GP, 2.75 GAG, .909 save pct.
• Alex Pelletier, LW, Avon Old Farms Prep -- 12 GP, 15 G, 8 A
• Cole Tuminaro, D, Sioux  City (USHL) -- 20 GP, 0 G, 1 A
• Aiden Long -- LW, Madison (USHL) -- 27 GP, 4 G, 4 A
• Giovanni DiGiulian -- C, Kent School Prep -- 13 GP, 13 G, 10 A
• Connor Arsenault -- C, St. Andrews Prep -- 30 GP, 13 G, 14 A
• Hudson Gorski -- D, Chicago (USHL) -- 29 GP, 0 G, 3 A
• Michael Sandruck -- RW, Rochester Jr. Americans (NAHL) -- 4 GP, 1 G, 0 A; previously, Bishop Kearney Selects 18U AAA -- 34 GP, 19 G, 24 A
• Nicholas Wolfenberg -- D, Salmon Arm (BCHL) -- 14 GP, 0 G, 5 A
• Charlie Major -- C, Chicago (USHL) -- 31 GP, 14 G, 14 A
• Donovan Hamilton -- D, Cedar Rapids (USHL) -- 23 GP, 1 G, 2 A
• Justin Katz -- G, West Kelowna (BCHL) 7 GP, 3.11 GAA, .891 save pct.
• Chase Pirtle -- RW, Victoria (BCHL) -- 54 GP, 32 G, 24 A
• Tyler Wishart -- RW, Merritt and Cranbrook (BCHL) -- 19 GP, 3 G, 9 A

I believe Katz has been battling injuries the past couple of seasons, while Roest, who is a recent commit, is having an excellent season. As for the guys likely to be coming in next year, Pirtle and Major look to be the most promising of the forwards. As for the defensemen, it doesn't appear that this group is as offensively gifted as our current group, but I'm just going by the stats. The prep school guys are putting up big numbers, but those tend to fall off when they hit the junior ranks. I know DiGiulian is on the NHL Central Scouting mid-season list, but I don't believe any of our other recruits made the cut.

Quote from: scoop85A mid-season update on our listed recruits:

• Erick Roest, G, Sherwood Park Crusaders (AJHL) -- 28 GP, 2.75 GAG, .909 save pct.
• Alex Pelletier, LW, Avon Old Farms Prep -- 12 GP, 15 G, 8 A
  
• Cole Tuminaro, D, Sioux  City (USHL) -- 20 GP, 0 G, 1 A
• Aiden Long -- LW, Madison (USHL) -- 27 GP, 4 G, 4 A
• Giovanni DiGiulian -- C, Kent School Prep -- 13 GP, 13 G, 10 A
• Connor Arsenault -- C, St. Andrews Prep -- 30 GP, 13 G, 14 A
• Hudson Gorski -- D, Chicago (USHL) -- 29 GP, 0 G, 3 A
• Michael Sandruck -- RW, Rochester Jr. Americans (NAHL) -- 4 GP, 1 G, 0 A; previously, Bishop Kearney Selects 18U AAA -- 34 GP, 19 G, 24 A
• Nicholas Wolfenberg -- D, Salmon Arm (BCHL) -- 14 GP, 0 G, 5 A
• Charlie Major -- C, Chicago (USHL) -- 31 GP, 14 G, 14 A
• Donovan Hamilton -- D, Cedar Rapids (USHL) -- 23 GP, 1 G, 2 A
• Justin Katz -- G, West Kelowna (BCHL) 7 GP, 3.11 GAA, .891 save pct.
• Chase Pirtle -- RW, Victoria (BCHL) -- 54 GP, 32 G, 24 A
• Tyler Wishart -- RW, Merritt and Cranbrook (BCHL) -- 19 GP, 3 G, 9 A

Any relation to Jean-Marc Pelletier '99?

Quote from: scoop85A mid-season update on our listed recruits:

• Erick Roest, G, Sherwood Park Crusaders (AJHL) -- 28 GP, 2.75 GAG, .909 save pct.
• Alex Pelletier, LW, Avon Old Farms Prep -- 12 GP, 15 G, 8 A
• Cole Tuminaro, D, Sioux  City (USHL) -- 20 GP, 0 G, 1 A
• Aiden Long -- LW, Madison (USHL) -- 27 GP, 4 G, 4 A
• Giovanni DiGiulian -- C, Kent School Prep -- 13 GP, 13 G, 10 A
• Connor Arsenault -- C, St. Andrews Prep -- 30 GP, 13 G, 14 A
• Hudson Gorski -- D, Chicago (USHL) -- 29 GP, 0 G, 3 A
• Michael Sandruck -- RW, Rochester Jr. Americans (NAHL) -- 4 GP, 1 G, 0 A; previously, Bishop Kearney Selects 18U AAA -- 34 GP, 19 G, 24 A
• Nicholas Wolfenberg -- D, Salmon Arm (BCHL) -- 14 GP, 0 G, 5 A
• Charlie Major -- C, Chicago (USHL) -- 31 GP, 14 G, 14 A
• Donovan Hamilton -- D, Cedar Rapids (USHL) -- 23 GP, 1 G, 2 A
• Justin Katz -- G, West Kelowna (BCHL) 7 GP, 3.11 GAA, .891 save pct.
• Chase Pirtle -- RW, Victoria (BCHL) -- 54 GP, 32 G, 24 A
• Tyler Wishart -- RW, Merritt and Cranbrook (BCHL) -- 19 GP, 3 G, 9 A

I believe Katz has been battling injuries the past couple of seasons, while Roest, who is a recent commit, is having an excellent season. As for the guys likely to be coming in next year, Pirtle and Major look to be the most promising of the forwards. As for the defensemen, it doesn't appear that this group is as offensively gifted as our current group, but I'm just going by the stats. The prep school guys are putting up big numbers, but those tend to fall off when they hit the junior ranks. I know DiGiulian is on the NHL Central Scouting mid-season list, but I don't believe any of our other recruits made the cut.

Outside of Pirtle/Major/DiGiulian, no one is really jumping out among the recruits based on publicly available information. Roest might be good, but .909 sv% in the AJHL isn't earth-shattering. I hope the '05s and '06s put up better numbers in their next year of juniors (other than Pirtle, who I would guess will come next year despite being an '05). Arsenault was on the fall Central Scouting rankings but wasn't on the midterm rankings. Obviously, I haven't seen a single one of these players in action. Just going off of publicly available info.

Shoot the puck, Aiden Long! (I don't know anything more than "point a game for a forward seems cool.")

Wolfenberg was listed in last year's final NHL Central Scouting rankings.  He may be injured this yr (has played only 14 games with 5 points).

A few days ago, I read an article about Charlie Major (https://www.syracuse.com/poststandard/2024/01/former-skaneateles-hockey-star-will-continue-career-at-cornell-its-where-i-always-wanted-to-go.html).

In my listing I forgot to include our new recruit, forward Parker Murray. In 17 games with Penticton and Chilliwack of the BCHL he has 4 G, 6 A.

And today we got a commitment from Michael Dec, a forward from St. Andrews College who turns 17 in a couple of weeks. In 28 games Dec has 11 G, 12 A. Hopefully he goes on a growth spurt, as Elite Prospects lists him as 5'7" and only 134 lbs.

Quote from: scoop85In my listing I forgot to include our new recruit, forward Parker Murray. In 17 games with Penticton and Chilliwack of the BCHL he has 4 G, 6 A.

And today we got a commitment from Michael Dec, a forward from St. Andrews College who turns 17 in a couple of weeks. In 28 games Dec has 11 G, 12 A. Hopefully he goes on a growth spurt, as Elite Prospects lists him as 5'7" and only 134 lbs.

He's only 17. Late puberty strikes again.

Since Cornell also gets players from the BCHLwhich left Hockey Canada, this may be of interest.

https://bchlnetwork.ca/report-five-alberta-junior-hockey-league-teams-make-bold-move-to-join-bchl/

Quote from: ursusminorSince Cornell also gets players from the BCHLwhich left Hockey Canada, this may be of interest.

https://bchlnetwork.ca/report-five-alberta-junior-hockey-league-teams-make-bold-move-to-join-bchl/

Interesting development for sure. The BCHL and stronger AJHL teams have for years been producing more high level D1 talent than the eastern Canada Junior A leagues, and this move seemingly will exacerbate that trend.

Quote from: scoop85

Quote from: ursusminorSince Cornell also gets players from the BCHLwhich left Hockey Canada, this may be of interest.

https://bchlnetwork.ca/report-five-alberta-junior-hockey-league-teams-make-bold-move-to-join-bchl/

Interesting development for sure. The BCHL and stronger AJHL teams have for years been producing more high level D1 talent than the eastern Canada Junior A leagues, and this move seemingly will exacerbate that trend.

That's fascinating.  Spruce Grove and Brooks have dominated the AHJL lately.

[b]YEAR    CHAMPION                 RUNNER UP[/b]
2010 [b]Spruce Grove Saints[/b] Fort McMurray Oil Barons
2011 [b]Spruce Grove Saints[/b] Camrose Kodiaks
2012 [b]Brooks Bandits[/b] Fort McMurray Oil Barons
2013 [b]Brooks Bandits[/b] [b]Spruce Grove Saints[/b]
2014 [b]Spruce Grove Saints[/b] Drumheller Dragons
2015 [b]Spruce Grove Saints[/b] [b]Brooks Bandits[/b]
2016 [b]Brooks Bandits[/b] [b]Spruce Grove Saints[/b]
2017 [b]Brooks Bandits[/b] Whitecourt Wolverines
2018 [b]Spruce Grove Saints[/b] Okotoks Oilers
2019 [b]Brooks Bandits[/b] [b]Spruce Grove Saints[/b]
2022 [b]Brooks Bandits[/b] [b]Spruce Grove Saints[/b]
2023 [b]Brooks Bandits[/b] [b]Spruce Grove Saints[/b]


Among our AJHL players:

Rego (Brooks)
Scrivens (Spruce Grove)
Vanderlaan (Fort McMurray)
Holowatiuk (Sherwood Park)
Lopatka (Fort Saskatchewan)
Craig (Okotoks)
Mallott (Brooks)
Kary (Spruce Grove)

Our commitments:

Aiden Long (Whitecourt)
Erick Roest (Sherwood Park)
Nick Wolfenberg (Okotoks)

official announcement with no new details https://bchl.ca/bchl-agrees-to-terms-with-five-alberta-based-teams

Quote from: scoop85

Quote from: ursusminorSince Cornell also gets players from the BCHLwhich left Hockey Canada, this may be of interest.

https://bchlnetwork.ca/report-five-alberta-junior-hockey-league-teams-make-bold-move-to-join-bchl/

Interesting development for sure. The BCHL and stronger AJHL teams have for years been producing more high level D1 talent than the eastern Canada Junior A leagues, and this move seemingly will exacerbate that trend.

So the 5 teams moving to BCHL so that players... don't have to wear a full face protection? It's going to make the league more competitive, but that is one part I don't understand. Is Major Junior still playing with visors/half shields?

I dont know the answer to this 100% but remember one of the Cornell coaches at some point saying that commits are admitted students who then use their deferral to go play juniors.  So does that mean that kids who get de-committed still matriculate at Cornell?

Quote from: scoop85A mid-season update on our listed recruits:

• Erick Roest, G, Sherwood Park Crusaders (AJHL) -- 28 GP, 2.75 GAG, .909 save pct.
• Alex Pelletier, LW, Avon Old Farms Prep -- 12 GP, 15 G, 8 A
• Cole Tuminaro, D, Sioux  City (USHL) -- 20 GP, 0 G, 1 A
• Aiden Long -- LW, Madison (USHL) -- 27 GP, 4 G, 4 A
• Giovanni DiGiulian -- C, Kent School Prep -- 13 GP, 13 G, 10 A
• Connor Arsenault -- C, St. Andrews Prep -- 30 GP, 13 G, 14 A
• Hudson Gorski -- D, Chicago (USHL) -- 29 GP, 0 G, 3 A
• Michael Sandruck -- RW, Rochester Jr. Americans (NAHL) -- 4 GP, 1 G, 0 A; previously, Bishop Kearney Selects 18U AAA -- 34 GP, 19 G, 24 A
  
• Nicholas Wolfenberg -- D, Salmon Arm (BCHL) -- 14 GP, 0 G, 5 A
• Charlie Major -- C, Chicago (USHL) -- 31 GP, 14 G, 14 A
• Donovan Hamilton -- D, Cedar Rapids (USHL) -- 23 GP, 1 G, 2 A
• Justin Katz -- G, West Kelowna (BCHL) 7 GP, 3.11 GAA, .891 save pct.
• Chase Pirtle -- RW, Victoria (BCHL) -- 54 GP, 32 G, 24 A
• Tyler Wishart -- RW, Merritt and Cranbrook (BCHL) -- 19 GP, 3 G, 9 A

I believe Katz has been battling injuries the past couple of seasons, while Roest, who is a recent commit, is having an excellent season. As for the guys likely to be coming in next year, Pirtle and Major look to be the most promising of the forwards. As for the defensemen, it doesn't appear that this group is as offensively gifted as our current group, but I'm just going by the stats. The prep school guys are putting up big numbers, but those tend to fall off when they hit the junior ranks. I know DiGiulian is on the NHL Central Scouting mid-season list, but I don't believe any of our other recruits made the cut.

Heisenberg has deleted Wishart from our recruit list. Justin Katz was recently traded to Powell River.

Still shows as Cornell on Elite Prospects, but there appears to be an X tweet where he announces for RPI.

Quote from: PghasI dont know the answer to this 100% but remember one of the Cornell coaches at some point saying that commits are admitted students who then use their deferral to go play juniors.  So does that mean that kids who get de-committed still matriculate at Cornell?

I know of at least a couple instances where a player who was at one point recruited for the Cornell hockey team ended up matriculating anyway, in some cases playing for the club team. So, if you're asking about Wishart, unless there is some atypical reason why he decommitted, my guess is that it will be his own decision whether he would like to matriculate at Cornell and not play varsity hockey, or alternatively try to play college hockey elsewhere.

Quote from: TrotskyStill shows as Cornell on Elite Prospects, but there appears to be an X tweet where he announces for RPI.

I think what you see on X is him retweeting another kid who announced his commitment to RPI

Dec looks like a good recruit. He seems to be the second most productive first year player on St. Andrews (elite Canadian prep school) varsity team. The most productive first year player is Aiden Lane, Harvard commit.

Recent recruits from St. Andrews:
Connor Arsenault (coming in 2024 or 2025)
Luke Devlin
Jonathan Castagna
Justin Ertel
Matt Stienburg
Morgan Barron
Matthew Galajda

Outside of Galajda, who was one of the best few college hockey goalies all four years, every single one of those players who was eligible to be drafted ended up getting drafted by an NHL team. Did I forget any recent St. Andrews products?

Wishart  is not an  RPI recruit.

On a separate topic, as of 2/1/24, 5 AJHL teams including Sherwood Park formally switched to the BCHL. They begin playing under the BCHL auspices on 2/2. https://bchl.ca/bchl-announces-finalized-franchise-agreements-and-integration-with-five-alberta-based-teams So you can switch Roest to BCHL.

Quote from: scoop85

Quote from: TrotskyStill shows as Cornell on Elite Prospects, but there appears to be an X tweet where he announces for RPI.

I think what you see on X is him retweeting another kid who announced his commitment to RPI

Oh, OK, thank you!

I'm not down with Xitler so I can't see the actual content, only some peripheral data.

Quote from: BearLover

Quote from: PghasI dont know the answer to this 100% but remember one of the Cornell coaches at some point saying that commits are admitted students who then use their deferral to go play juniors.  So does that mean that kids who get de-committed still matriculate at Cornell?

I know of at least a couple instances where a player who was at one point recruited for the Cornell hockey team ended up matriculating anyway, in some cases playing for the club team. So, if you're asking about Wishart, unless there is some atypical reason why he decommitted, my guess is that it will be his own decision whether he would like to matriculate at Cornell and not play varsity hockey, or alternatively try to play college hockey elsewhere.

Yes, thats why I am asking - I know of another kid who plays for the club team now after a similar scenario, and was at a Cornell recruitment weekend with my son over the summer and vaguely remember something about kids being admitted and using a deferral to play juniors.  thanks all.

We seem to be bouncing back and forth between threads a bit here...hope this is the right one.

Had the opportunity last night to watch Gio DeGiulian play.  He's going to be a great player for us.  Wheels, wheels, wheels and great hands.  Not sure if he is playing juniors after Kent or maybe just comes straight to Cornell? Anyway, he was the best player on the ice ( I thought).  And man founders' league prep school hockey is fantastic.

Quote from: PghasNot sure if he is playing juniors after Kent or maybe just comes straight to Cornell?

I suspect a year on the USHL, like most of them do.  That would have him at Lynah right at his 20th birthday.

Quote from: PghasWe seem to be bouncing back and forth between threads a bit here...hope this is the right one.

Had the opportunity last night to watch Gio DeGiulian play.  He's going to be a great player for us.  Wheels, wheels, wheels and great hands.  Not sure if he is playing juniors after Kent or maybe just comes straight to Cornell? Anyway, he was the best player on the ice ( I thought).  And man founders' league prep school hockey is fantastic.

I assume he'll play a year in the USHL, even if he gets drafted, unless the coaches think he's ready now. I think it's basically a function of who leaves the program after this year and how many LW we are bringing in (Elite Prospects lists Gio as a LW). Which depends on whether Penney, O'Leary, and Rego are on track to graduate or if they plan to stay one more year (Cornell hockey refers to them as juniors, i.e. it does not count the canceled season of 2020-21).

Next year Cornell will certainly bring in Major, Murray, and a goalie (Roest or Katz), maybe Pirtle too. Murray is also listed as a LW, so I assume Gio plays a year of juniors.

Notably, Gio is our only recruit who was listed in the Central Scouting Midterm Rankings, and I believe that a team must sign a drafted player within four years of the draft or that player becomes a free agent. Which means, if Gio is drafted and he plays a year of junior hockey, and the team that drafts him wants to sign him, there will be tremendous pressure on Gio to sign before his senior year even starts, and we'd potentially lose a year of his services. Someone more knowledgeable about this should let me know if I'm wrong—but if I have this right, then we really should be bringing in drafted players ASAP.

Quote from: BearLover

Quote from: PghasWe seem to be bouncing back and forth between threads a bit here...hope this is the right one.

Had the opportunity last night to watch Gio DeGiulian play.  He's going to be a great player for us.  Wheels, wheels, wheels and great hands.  Not sure if he is playing juniors after Kent or maybe just comes straight to Cornell? Anyway, he was the best player on the ice ( I thought).  And man founders' league prep school hockey is fantastic.

I assume he'll play a year in the USHL, even if he gets drafted, unless the coaches think he's ready now. I think it's basically a function of who leaves the program after this year and how many LW we are bringing in (Elite Prospects lists Gio as a LW). Which depends on whether Penney, O'Leary, and Rego are on track to graduate or if they plan to stay one more year (Cornell hockey refers to them as juniors, i.e. it does not count the canceled season of 2020-21).

Next year Cornell will certainly bring in Major, Murray, and a goalie (Roest or Katz), maybe Pirtle too. Murray is also listed as a LW, so I assume Gio plays a year of juniors.

Notably, Gio is our only recruit who was listed in the Central Scouting Midterm Rankings, and I believe that a team must sign a drafted player within four years of the draft or that player becomes a free agent. Which means, if Gio is drafted and he plays a year of junior hockey, and the team that drafts him wants to sign him, there will be tremendous pressure on Gio to sign before his senior year even starts, and we'd potentially lose a year of his services. Someone more knowledgeable about this should let me know if I'm wrong—but if I have this right, then we really should be bringing in drafted players ASAP.

i'm honestly not worried about the difference between 3 years of a more seasoned player who is good enough to be signed away and the potential for 4 years of a player who is good enough to start as a frosh since either one is going to get dragged away by money if they're good enough and the team is making the decision on the value of USHL competition as training.

Quote from: BearLoverNotably, Gio is our only recruit who was listed in the Central Scouting Midterm Rankings, and I believe that a team must sign a drafted player within four years of the draft or that player becomes a free agent. Which means, if Gio is drafted and he plays a year of junior hockey, and the team that drafts him wants to sign him, there will be tremendous pressure on Gio to sign before his senior year even starts, and we'd potentially lose a year of his services. Someone more knowledgeable about this should let me know if I'm wrong—but if I have this right, then we really should be bringing in drafted players ASAP.

That's interesting.  IIRC there used to be an age limit that would push a guy before the clock ran out (e.g., Steve Inglehart), but since rules seem to be changed what with half of Q collecting social security the draft limit comes into play now.

Gio played center last night.

Quote from: BearLoverNotably, Gio is our only recruit who was listed in the Central Scouting Midterm Rankings, and I believe that a team must sign a drafted player within four years of the draft or that player becomes a free agent. Which means, if Gio is drafted and he plays a year of junior hockey, and the team that drafts him wants to sign him, there will be tremendous pressure on Gio to sign before his senior year even starts, and we'd potentially lose a year of his services. Someone more knowledgeable about this should let me know if I'm wrong—but if I have this right, then we really should be bringing in drafted players ASAP.

The rule is 2 years or they're eligible to be drafted. For college the rule changes and the team retains a players rights until they've exhausted their eligibility. We've had a few of guys that it's happened to, though most of them haven't signed with their original team. My best example is Steven Fogarty who played a year in the BCHL post draft then spent 4 years at Notre Dame before signing with the Rangers who drafted him and held his rights.

Yesterday, Chris Heisenberg listed Henry Major as a SLU commit. Today he's listed as a Cornell commit (hopefully that's correct). Henry's developing more rapidly than brother Charlie (at comparable ages) and looks like a fantastic prospect, as does Charlie. In his Fr. and So. years at Skaneateles HS, Henry put up 132 points in 47 games. During his U16 year with BK Selects, Henry has a line of 53-48-54-102 (and a goal in his only game with the U18 team). Chicago holds his USHL rights and it would seem a logical next step for him.

That would be fantastic news.  Charlie Major is currently 8th in points in the USHL.  Would love (can't wait!) to see them both wearing the Cornell jersey...

Henry Major is definitely a Cornell commit.  I check the Chris Heisenberg site every day and saw last night that he was listed as a SLU commit.  I know his father well (we both coach high school hockey in section III) and immediately texted him to say congratulations to Henry on his commitment to St. Lawrence.  He replied "thank you, but he committed to Cornell". I said " even better yet!!"

Woohoo!

I don't suppose they are twins?  It's been a while.

I like your thinkin' Trotsky but, unfortunately, no such luck.  Charlie's an '04 birth year, Henry is an '07.

Are they the sons of Mark Major '87 (https://www.eliteprospects.com/player/312066/mark-major)?

Quote from: TrotskyWoohoo!

I don't suppose they are twins?  It's been a while.

Erm, we just had the Tupker twins

They are nephews of Mark Major - Mark's brother Mitch is the father

Quote from: Iceberg

Quote from: TrotskyWoohoo!

I don't suppose they are twins?  It's been a while.

Erm, we just had the Tupker twins

Like I said... it's been a while.

Quote from: ithacatHenry has a line of 53-48-54-102

Don't know how to read that.

Is that 53games, 48g, 54asst, 102 points?

Quote from: abmarks

Quote from: ithacatHenry has a line of 53-48-54-102

Don't know how to read that.

Is that 53games, 48g, 54asst, 102 points?

I'm pretty sure that's it

Quote from: scoop85

Quote from: abmarks

Quote from: ithacatHenry has a line of 53-48-54-102

Don't know how to read that.

Is that 53games, 48g, 54asst, 102 points?

I'm pretty sure that's it

Yes, sorry...

I didn't know Gio was Gary Thorne's grandson!  Thorne did the play-by-play for the Kent - Canterbury game.

Quote from: billchuI didn't know Gio was Gary Thorne's grandson!  Thorne did the play-by-play for the Kent - Canterbury game.

Yes, interesting connection. Thorne is an all-time great

Quote from: TrotskyAre they the sons of Mark Major '87 (https://www.eliteprospects.com/player/312066/mark-major)?

Skaneateles just won the state title again even without the kid playing this yr. nice job by them

I'll get yelled at for saying this, but...turns out having five draft picks in your freshman class (maybe six, if Robertson gets picked this year) is a good thing. And, in another one of BearLover's Classic Takes, the conference being weak this year helped us too...to win a championship, the teams we had to beat were ranked 50th, 29th, and 43rd in the PWR...

Quote from: BearLover(maybe six, if Robertson gets picked this year)

if Robertson doesn't get picked the entire NHL is insane

Quote from: BearLoverI'll get yelled at for saying this, but...turns out having five draft picks in your freshman class (maybe six, if Robertson gets picked this year) is a good thing. And, in another one of BearLover's Classic Takes, the conference being weak this year helped us too...to win a championship, the teams we had to beat were ranked 50th, 29th, and 43rd in the PWR...

Ah, but the fact that the conference was so weak was the very reason why we *HAD* to win the championship. We basically had to run the table, even WITH an unbeaten OOC record in order to grab an at-large bid. We didn't, but came close. Meanwhile, UMass got one because they were in a strong league, despite having a poor record vs. top 15. That we avoided playing the top team in our league was pretty fortunate.

Quote from: RichH

Quote from: BearLoverI'll get yelled at for saying this, but...turns out having five draft picks in your freshman class (maybe six, if Robertson gets picked this year) is a good thing. And, in another one of BearLover's Classic Takes, the conference being weak this year helped us too...to win a championship, the teams we had to beat were ranked 50th, 29th, and 43rd in the PWR...

Ah, but the fact that the conference was so weak was the very reason why we *HAD* to win the championship. We basically had to run the table, even WITH an unbeaten OOC record in order to grab an at-large bid. We didn't, but came close. Meanwhile, UMass got one because they were in a strong league, despite having a poor record vs. top 15. That we avoided playing the top team in our league was pretty fortunate.

No. The pairwise accounts for strength of schedule. If our conference were better, our SOS would be higher but our win percentage would be worse. You can't assume a world where our conference is better but we win just as many games.

Anyway, I was just talking about the championship, not the at-large bid. It was certainly lucky we avoided playing the best team in the conference—but when the league sucks except for one other team, it's much more likely for something like that to happen (in part because we didn't have to meet them until the final, due to us finishing higher than all the other teams, which wasn't that hard, because the conference stunk).

Quote from: BearLover

Quote from: RichH

Quote from: BearLoverI'll get yelled at for saying this, but...turns out having five draft picks in your freshman class (maybe six, if Robertson gets picked this year) is a good thing. And, in another one of BearLover's Classic Takes, the conference being weak this year helped us too...to win a championship, the teams we had to beat were ranked 50th, 29th, and 43rd in the PWR...

Ah, but the fact that the conference was so weak was the very reason why we *HAD* to win the championship. We basically had to run the table, even WITH an unbeaten OOC record in order to grab an at-large bid. We didn't, but came close. Meanwhile, UMass got one because they were in a strong league, despite having a poor record vs. top 15. That we avoided playing the top team in our league was pretty fortunate.

No. The pairwise accounts for strength of schedule. If our conference were better, our SOS would be higher but our win percentage would be worse. You can't assume a world where our conference is better but we win just as many games.

The difference between being in the two conferences is the "bad night" effect. If UMass plays Maine and they have a bad night they lose, and if they have a good night, they probably still lose, but they gain by having a higher SOS. If Cornell plays Colgate and they have a bad night and they lose to a team they would normally beat, they take a hit with the loss and a hit with SOS.

The win percentage/SOS balance only works when there's consistency in play throughout the season. The guys are still maturing. They will, individually and as a team, have bad nights. It's better to have bad nights in Hockey East than in the ECAC.

Quote from: pjd8

Quote from: BearLover

Quote from: RichH

Quote from: BearLoverI'll get yelled at for saying this, but...turns out having five draft picks in your freshman class (maybe six, if Robertson gets picked this year) is a good thing. And, in another one of BearLover's Classic Takes, the conference being weak this year helped us too...to win a championship, the teams we had to beat were ranked 50th, 29th, and 43rd in the PWR...

Ah, but the fact that the conference was so weak was the very reason why we *HAD* to win the championship. We basically had to run the table, even WITH an unbeaten OOC record in order to grab an at-large bid. We didn't, but came close. Meanwhile, UMass got one because they were in a strong league, despite having a poor record vs. top 15. That we avoided playing the top team in our league was pretty fortunate.

No. The pairwise accounts for strength of schedule. If our conference were better, our SOS would be higher but our win percentage would be worse. You can't assume a world where our conference is better but we win just as many games.

The difference between being in the two conferences is the "bad night" effect. If UMass plays Maine and they have a bad night they lose, and if they have a good night, they probably still lose, but they gain by having a higher SOS. If Cornell plays Colgate and they have a bad night and they lose to a team they would normally beat, they take a hit with the loss and a hit with SOS.

The win percentage/SOS balance only works when there's consistency in play throughout the season. The guys are still maturing. They will, individually and as a team, have bad nights. It's better to have bad nights in Hockey East than in the ECAC.

I dunno. I'm not really sure this makes sense or actually works this way in practice. All I know is that, if you need to win your conference tournament to get into the NCAAs, as we did this year, you better hope your league isn't good. The rest of the good league/bad league imbalance should largely be washed away by the Pairwise.

We didn't need to win the conf title to get in with PWR if we don't blow any one of about 6 other games,

Quote from: upprdeckWe didn't need to win the conf title to get in with PWR if we don't blow any one of about 6 other games,

^^This^^

Quote from: Jeff Hopkins '82

Quote from: upprdeckWe didn't need to win the conf title to get in with PWR if we don't blow any one of about 6 other games,

^^This^^

nope.  it's the other way around. let's get cause and effect in proper order.   Which is to say that bearlover's good takes arrive highly correlated with full eclipses.  I actually agree with him.

-cause: We punted 6 games.

-Effect: therefore had to win conference to get to the tournament

Therefore, bearlover is correct in saying:

Quote from: bearloverAll I know is that, if you need to win your conference tournament to get into the NCAAs, as we did this year, you better hope your league isn't good.

because the worse your league on the whole, the better your chances are of winning the league tourny.

p.s.  Also agree with bearlover that draft picks matter, harvard's horrid start this year notwithstanding. ( i think that I gave him my semi-annual stamp of approval at least in part when he posted about Harvard's picks before the season)

Quote from: upprdeckWe didn't need to win the conf title to get in with PWR if we don't blow any one of about 6 other games,

The horrid game at Princeton comes to mind. No doubt the PWR would've been higher without that loss

Quote from: abmarks

Quote from: Jeff Hopkins '82

Quote from: upprdeckWe didn't need to win the conf title to get in with PWR if we don't blow any one of about 6 other games,

^^This^^

nope.  it's the other way around. let's get cause and effect in proper order.   Which is to say that bearlover's good takes arrive highly correlated with full eclipses.  I actually agree with him.

-cause: We punted 6 games.

-Effect: therefore had to win conference to get to the tournament

Therefore, bearlover is correct in saying:

Quote from: bearloverAll I know is that, if you need to win your conference tournament to get into the NCAAs, as we did this year, you better hope your league isn't good.

because the worse your league on the whole, the better your chances are of winning the league tourny.

p.s.  Also agree with bearlover that draft picks matter, harvard's horrid start this year notwithstanding. ( i think that I gave him my semi-annual stamp of approval at least in part when he posted about Harvard's picks before the season)

There are more than a few posters on this website who hang on my every word. Some are fans, some are haters. But abmarks stands out as more obsessed than all the rest.

Quote from: upprdeckWe didn't need to win the conf title to get in with PWR if we don't blow any one of about 6 other games,

But UMass also "blew" about the same number of games. The difference is that they get a SOS bump due to having a stronger league schedule that forgives those blips more when we're looking at the 3rd & 4th decimal place of RPI. These aren't 80 game seasons that can truly iron out the differences.

umass is a big one in itself. that being a win moves us up enough. But we had 2 goals leads twice vs ASU we let get away.

Everyone has wins and losses that change the PWR. In the long run we only have control over what we did.

If the discussion is about how weak the league is, then not winning those games that flip the power hurt even more,

Just don't lose the Clarkson game and PWR would have been enough.  Coming back for STL the next night helped

I'm just going to consider it encouraging that our losses were almost all games that we could have / should have won.

This discussion is demoralizing.  

You can't say "if we didn't blow that one easy game."  We are what our record says we are.  Full stop.  You can hypothesize about future events and non-happening (i.e., "hypothetical" ) events, but you can't rewrite history -- the actuals must be a given, or then we have no reason to privilege one coulda shoulda from one or more in the opposite direction.

And you all should know that.

Quote from: pjd8

Quote from: BearLover

Quote from: RichH

Quote from: BearLoverI'll get yelled at for saying this, but...turns out having five draft picks in your freshman class (maybe six, if Robertson gets picked this year) is a good thing. And, in another one of BearLover's Classic Takes, the conference being weak this year helped us too...to win a championship, the teams we had to beat were ranked 50th, 29th, and 43rd in the PWR...

Ah, but the fact that the conference was so weak was the very reason why we *HAD* to win the championship. We basically had to run the table, even WITH an unbeaten OOC record in order to grab an at-large bid. We didn't, but came close. Meanwhile, UMass got one because they were in a strong league, despite having a poor record vs. top 15. That we avoided playing the top team in our league was pretty fortunate.

No. The pairwise accounts for strength of schedule. If our conference were better, our SOS would be higher but our win percentage would be worse. You can't assume a world where our conference is better but we win just as many games.

The difference between being in the two conferences is the "bad night" effect. If UMass plays Maine and they have a bad night they lose, and if they have a good night, they probably still lose, but they gain by having a higher SOS. If Cornell plays Colgate and they have a bad night and they lose to a team they would normally beat, they take a hit with the loss and a hit with SOS.

The win percentage/SOS balance only works when there's consistency in play throughout the season. The guys are still maturing. They will, individually and as a team, have bad nights. It's better to have bad nights in Hockey East than in the ECAC.

This is pretty spot on.  When the league is weak you have to win every game which is tough when your team is so young.  Tougher league is more forgiving of a few extra losses as long as you're not getting blown out.

Quote from: Pghas

Quote from: pjd8

Quote from: BearLover

Quote from: RichH

Quote from: BearLoverI'll get yelled at for saying this, but...turns out having five draft picks in your freshman class (maybe six, if Robertson gets picked this year) is a good thing. And, in another one of BearLover's Classic Takes, the conference being weak this year helped us too...to win a championship, the teams we had to beat were ranked 50th, 29th, and 43rd in the PWR...

Ah, but the fact that the conference was so weak was the very reason why we *HAD* to win the championship. We basically had to run the table, even WITH an unbeaten OOC record in order to grab an at-large bid. We didn't, but came close. Meanwhile, UMass got one because they were in a strong league, despite having a poor record vs. top 15. That we avoided playing the top team in our league was pretty fortunate.

No. The pairwise accounts for strength of schedule. If our conference were better, our SOS would be higher but our win percentage would be worse. You can't assume a world where our conference is better but we win just as many games.

The difference between being in the two conferences is the "bad night" effect. If UMass plays Maine and they have a bad night they lose, and if they have a good night, they probably still lose, but they gain by having a higher SOS. If Cornell plays Colgate and they have a bad night and they lose to a team they would normally beat, they take a hit with the loss and a hit with SOS.

The win percentage/SOS balance only works when there's consistency in play throughout the season. The guys are still maturing. They will, individually and as a team, have bad nights. It's better to have bad nights in Hockey East than in the ECAC.

This is pretty spot on.  When the league is weak you have to win every game which is tough when your team is so young.  Tougher league is more forgiving of a few extra losses as long as you're not getting blown out.

I think you guys are reaching for a justification (worse league=more punishment for off nights) for a pre-existing belief (we would be better off if the ECAC were better). Couldn't you just as easily say that, when your opponent is weak, you have more room for error, and you could still win when some of your freshmen have an off night? Couldn't you say that, for purposes of building freshmen confidence, it's a lot harder when you're going up against players like Celebrini/Gauthier every night?

At the end of the day, there are all sorts of reasons one could come up with for why Cornell would end up with a better or worse PWR if it were in a harder league. I don't find these reasons convincing, tbh. If we're being subjective, though, we should ask ourselves: do we truly feel, if Cornell were in Hockey East/the Big 10/the NCHC, that we would have gotten an at-large bid this year? I have a very difficult time believing that...

Quote from: BearLover

Quote from: Pghas

Quote from: pjd8

Quote from: BearLover

Quote from: RichH

Quote from: BearLoverI'll get yelled at for saying this, but...turns out having five draft picks in your freshman class (maybe six, if Robertson gets picked this year) is a good thing. And, in another one of BearLover's Classic Takes, the conference being weak this year helped us too...to win a championship, the teams we had to beat were ranked 50th, 29th, and 43rd in the PWR...

Ah, but the fact that the conference was so weak was the very reason why we *HAD* to win the championship. We basically had to run the table, even WITH an unbeaten OOC record in order to grab an at-large bid. We didn't, but came close. Meanwhile, UMass got one because they were in a strong league, despite having a poor record vs. top 15. That we avoided playing the top team in our league was pretty fortunate.

No. The pairwise accounts for strength of schedule. If our conference were better, our SOS would be higher but our win percentage would be worse. You can't assume a world where our conference is better but we win just as many games.

The difference between being in the two conferences is the "bad night" effect. If UMass plays Maine and they have a bad night they lose, and if they have a good night, they probably still lose, but they gain by having a higher SOS. If Cornell plays Colgate and they have a bad night and they lose to a team they would normally beat, they take a hit with the loss and a hit with SOS.

The win percentage/SOS balance only works when there's consistency in play throughout the season. The guys are still maturing. They will, individually and as a team, have bad nights. It's better to have bad nights in Hockey East than in the ECAC.

This is pretty spot on.  When the league is weak you have to win every game which is tough when your team is so young.  Tougher league is more forgiving of a few extra losses as long as you're not getting blown out.

I think you guys are reaching for a justification (worse league=more punishment for off nights) for a pre-existing belief (we would be better off if the ECAC were better). Couldn't you just as easily say that, when your opponent is weak, you have more room for error, and you could still win when some of your freshmen have an off night? Couldn't you say that, for purposes of building freshmen confidence, it's a lot harder when you're going up against players like Celebrini/Gauthier every night?

At the end of the day, there are all sorts of reasons one could come up with for why Cornell would end up with a better or worse PWR if it were in a harder league. I don't find these reasons convincing, tbh. If we're being subjective, though, we should ask ourselves: do we truly feel, if Cornell were in Hockey East/the Big 10/the NCHC, that we would have gotten an at-large bid this year? I have a very difficult time believing that...

If you accept the premise that RPI is an accurate reflection of team quality, then I'll say yes based on where our RPI wound up.

Cornell would be better prepared for tomorrow night's game if we had played a Hockey East schedule this year.  Four HEA teams made the NCAAs this year.  Had Q won the ECACs, there would have been one ECAC team, and it wouldn't have been Cornell, despite a twenty win season.  I don't buy your self-serving logic, BearLover, one bit.  

Winning the ECACs was much more satisfying when Cornell had to beat Fred Bassi and the BU pinball line, or BC's Cunniff/Dyer/Mullin line or Harvard's Corkery/Hynes/McManama line, then beating Dartmouth and SLU no-names.  And Cornell's teams were stronger as a result entering the NCAAs.

Tell me again how Yale's championship, or Union's, resulted in a dynasty.  I need s good laugh.

Quote from: BearLover

Quote from: Pghas

Quote from: pjd8

Quote from: BearLover

Quote from: RichH

Quote from: BearLoverI'll get yelled at for saying this, but...turns out having five draft picks in your freshman class (maybe six, if Robertson gets picked this year) is a good thing. And, in another one of BearLover's Classic Takes, the conference being weak this year helped us too...to win a championship, the teams we had to beat were ranked 50th, 29th, and 43rd in the PWR...

Ah, but the fact that the conference was so weak was the very reason why we *HAD* to win the championship. We basically had to run the table, even WITH an unbeaten OOC record in order to grab an at-large bid. We didn't, but came close. Meanwhile, UMass got one because they were in a strong league, despite having a poor record vs. top 15. That we avoided playing the top team in our league was pretty fortunate.

No. The pairwise accounts for strength of schedule. If our conference were better, our SOS would be higher but our win percentage would be worse. You can't assume a world where our conference is better but we win just as many games.

The difference between being in the two conferences is the "bad night" effect. If UMass plays Maine and they have a bad night they lose, and if they have a good night, they probably still lose, but they gain by having a higher SOS. If Cornell plays Colgate and they have a bad night and they lose to a team they would normally beat, they take a hit with the loss and a hit with SOS.

The win percentage/SOS balance only works when there's consistency in play throughout the season. The guys are still maturing. They will, individually and as a team, have bad nights. It's better to have bad nights in Hockey East than in the ECAC.

This is pretty spot on.  When the league is weak you have to win every game which is tough when your team is so young.  Tougher league is more forgiving of a few extra losses as long as you're not getting blown out.

I think you guys are reaching for a justification (worse league=more punishment for off nights) for a pre-existing belief (we would be better off if the ECAC were better). Couldn't you just as easily say that, when your opponent is weak, you have more room for error, and you could still win when some of your freshmen have an off night? Couldn't you say that, for purposes of building freshmen confidence, it's a lot harder when you're going up against players like Celebrini/Gauthier every night?

At the end of the day, there are all sorts of reasons one could come up with for why Cornell would end up with a better or worse PWR if it were in a harder league. I don't find these reasons convincing, tbh. If we're being subjective, though, we should ask ourselves: do we truly feel, if Cornell were in Hockey East/the Big 10/the NCHC, that we would have gotten an at-large bid this year? I have a very difficult time believing that...

Having a belief "pre-existing" or otherwise is formed based on experience and observation, not some conjured up thing implanted at birth. Laying out these arguments aren't "justification" but...arguments of a position. That's how debate works.

Your pre-existing belief argument notwithstanding, Cornell has demonstrated that we can compete and win vs top teams. Put us in a tough league and this team would come out with more quality wins than we would in a weaker league, which helps with selection criteria.

We had 1 loss in 7 games vs top-20 teams. I'm optimistic about how we would have fared in a tough league. The experience would also prepare us better for the national tournament. I continue to pull for the ECAC not to be seen as full of cupcakes.

Quote from: Al DeFlorioCornell would be better prepared for tomorrow night's game if we had played a Hockey East schedule this year.  Four HEA teams made the NCAAs this year.  Had Q won the ECACs, there would have been one ECAC team, and it wouldn't have been Cornell, despite a twenty win season.  I don't buy your self-serving logic, BearLover, one bit.  

Winning the ECACs was much more satisfying when Cornell had to beat Fred Bassi and the BU pinball line, or BC's Cunniff/Dyer/Mullin line or Harvard's Corkery/Hynes/McManama line, then beating Dartmouth and SLU no-names.  And Cornell's teams were stronger as a result entering the NCAAs.

Tell me again how Yale's championship, or Union's, resulted in a dynasty.  I need s good laugh.

It's your call if you didn't enjoy our championship last weekend as much as you'd have liked. I personally was over the moon. Would it have been *even better* had we beaten two great teams in Lake Placid to do it? I guess, but only by a tiny bit. At the end of the day, after all it had been through the past few seasons, I knew Schafer and Cornell deserved a championship, and I didn't care how we got it. I don't really care that the refs may have missed a tripping penalty by Penney with a minute to go, or that Bancroft may have iced the puck on the O'Leary empty-netter, or (most importantly) that we didn't have to go through Quinnipiac. In a dark and twisted way, I actually LIKE these things, because of all the shitty stuff outside of its control Cornell hockey has had to endure the past few years. It felt like the universe balancing itself out.

You can argue all you want about whether a better or worse ECAC benefits Cornell overall. My point about a weak ECAC helping us this season is limited to a very narrow scope: if you need to win your conference tournament to get into the NCAAs (or if you just want to win a championship), as was the case for Cornell, and ten other teams in our league, you are much better off if your league is bad. This point isn't debatable, it's just a fact.

Quote from: abmarks

Quote from: Jeff Hopkins '82

Quote from: upprdeckWe didn't need to win the conf title to get in with PWR if we don't blow any one of about 6 other games,

^^This^^

nope.  it's the other way around. let's get cause and effect in proper order.   Which is to say that bearlover's good takes arrive highly correlated with full eclipses.  I actually agree with him.

-cause: We punted 6 games.

-Effect: therefore had to win conference to get to the tournament

Therefore, bearlover is correct in saying:

Quote from: bearloverAll I know is that, if you need to win your conference tournament to get into the NCAAs, as we did this year, you better hope your league isn't good.

because the worse your league on the whole, the better your chances are of winning the league tourny.

p.s.  Also agree with bearlover that draft picks matter, harvard's horrid start this year notwithstanding. ( i think that I gave him my semi-annual stamp of approval at least in part when he posted about Harvard's picks before the season)

But the results this year demonstrate that COACHING >> # OF PICKS in determining outcomes.

Quote from: Swampy

Quote from: abmarks

Quote from: Jeff Hopkins '82

Quote from: upprdeckWe didn't need to win the conf title to get in with PWR if we don't blow any one of about 6 other games,

^^This^^

nope.  it's the other way around. let's get cause and effect in proper order.   Which is to say that bearlover's good takes arrive highly correlated with full eclipses.  I actually agree with him.

-cause: We punted 6 games.

-Effect: therefore had to win conference to get to the tournament

Therefore, bearlover is correct in saying:

Quote from: bearloverAll I know is that, if you need to win your conference tournament to get into the NCAAs, as we did this year, you better hope your league isn't good.

because the worse your league on the whole, the better your chances are of winning the league tourny.

p.s.  Also agree with bearlover that draft picks matter, harvard's horrid start this year notwithstanding. ( i think that I gave him my semi-annual stamp of approval at least in part when he posted about Harvard's picks before the season)

But the results this year demonstrate that COACHING >> # OF PICKS in determining outcomes.

PWR  (number of draft picks), teams who would have received an at-large bid:
1. BC (14)
2. BU (14)
3. Denver (12)
4. MSU (6)
5. Maine (1)
6. Nodak (11)
7. Minnesota (13)
8. Wisco (13)
9. Quinnipiac (3)
10. UMich (11)
11. Omaha (5)
12. Cornell (6)
13. Western Mich (6)
14. UMass (13)

The above list does not include players like Macklin Celebrini who will be taken in this year's draft.

Quote from: BearLover

Quote from: Swampy

Quote from: abmarks

Quote from: Jeff Hopkins '82

Quote from: upprdeckWe didn't need to win the conf title to get in with PWR if we don't blow any one of about 6 other games,

^^This^^

nope.  it's the other way around. let's get cause and effect in proper order.   Which is to say that bearlover's good takes arrive highly correlated with full eclipses.  I actually agree with him.

-cause: We punted 6 games.

-Effect: therefore had to win conference to get to the tournament

Therefore, bearlover is correct in saying:

Quote from: bearloverAll I know is that, if you need to win your conference tournament to get into the NCAAs, as we did this year, you better hope your league isn't good.

because the worse your league on the whole, the better your chances are of winning the league tourny.

p.s.  Also agree with bearlover that draft picks matter, harvard's horrid start this year notwithstanding. ( i think that I gave him my semi-annual stamp of approval at least in part when he posted about Harvard's picks before the season)

But the results this year demonstrate that COACHING >> # OF PICKS in determining outcomes.

PWR  (number of draft picks), teams who would have received an at-large bid:
1. BC (14)
2. BU (14)
3. Denver (12)
4. MSU (6)
5. Maine (1)
6. Nodak (11)
7. Minnesota (13)
8. Wisco (13)
9. Quinnipiac (3)
10. UMich (11)
11. Omaha (5)
12. Cornell (6)
13. Western Mich (6)
14. UMass (13)

The above list does not include players like Macklin Celebrini who will be taken in this year's draft.

Maine and, to a lesser extent, QPAC are the outliers. Supports the idea that Ben Barr is a heckuva coach.

Quote from: scoop85

Quote from: BearLover

Quote from: Swampy

Quote from: abmarks

Quote from: Jeff Hopkins '82

Quote from: upprdeckWe didn't need to win the conf title to get in with PWR if we don't blow any one of about 6 other games,

^^This^^

nope.  it's the other way around. let's get cause and effect in proper order.   Which is to say that bearlover's good takes arrive highly correlated with full eclipses.  I actually agree with him.

-cause: We punted 6 games.

-Effect: therefore had to win conference to get to the tournament

Therefore, bearlover is correct in saying:

Quote from: bearloverAll I know is that, if you need to win your conference tournament to get into the NCAAs, as we did this year, you better hope your league isn't good.

because the worse your league on the whole, the better your chances are of winning the league tourny.

p.s.  Also agree with bearlover that draft picks matter, harvard's horrid start this year notwithstanding. ( i think that I gave him my semi-annual stamp of approval at least in part when he posted about Harvard's picks before the season)

But the results this year demonstrate that COACHING >> # OF PICKS in determining outcomes.

PWR  (number of draft picks), teams who would have received an at-large bid:
1. BC (14)
2. BU (14)
3. Denver (12)
4. MSU (6)
5. Maine (1)
6. Nodak (11)
7. Minnesota (13)
8. Wisco (13)
9. Quinnipiac (3)
10. UMich (11)
11. Omaha (5)
12. Cornell (6)
13. Western Mich (6)
14. UMass (13)

The above list does not include players like Macklin Celebrini who will be taken in this year's draft.

Maine and, to a lesser extent, QPAC are the outliers. Supports the idea that Ben Barr is a heckuva coach.

And he wanted to go to RPI, and we chose Smith instead.::cry::

5th yr and grad students can make up for draft picks.

Quote from: BearLover

Quote from: Swampy

Quote from: abmarks

Quote from: Jeff Hopkins '82

Quote from: upprdeckWe didn't need to win the conf title to get in with PWR if we don't blow any one of about 6 other games,

^^This^^

nope.  it's the other way around. let's get cause and effect in proper order.   Which is to say that bearlover's good takes arrive highly correlated with full eclipses.  I actually agree with him.

-cause: We punted 6 games.

-Effect: therefore had to win conference to get to the tournament

Therefore, bearlover is correct in saying:

Quote from: bearloverAll I know is that, if you need to win your conference tournament to get into the NCAAs, as we did this year, you better hope your league isn't good.

because the worse your league on the whole, the better your chances are of winning the league tourny.

p.s.  Also agree with bearlover that draft picks matter, harvard's horrid start this year notwithstanding. ( i think that I gave him my semi-annual stamp of approval at least in part when he posted about Harvard's picks before the season)

But the results this year demonstrate that COACHING >> # OF PICKS in determining outcomes.

PWR  (number of draft picks), teams who would have received an at-large bid:
1. BC (14)
2. BU (14)
3. Denver (12)
4. MSU (6)
5. Maine (1)
6. Nodak (11)
7. Minnesota (13)
8. Wisco (13)
9. Quinnipiac (3)
10. UMich (11)
11. Omaha (5)
12. Cornell (6)
13. Western Mich (6)
14. UMass (13)

The above list does not include players like Macklin Celebrini and Ben Robertson who will be taken in this year's draft.

FYP, if there's at least one smart team.

If the hockey gods came to me with an offer to make the ECAC mediocre for all eternity, I think I would accept. Take this year for example:
—great shot at another piece of hardware (ECAC championship) and automatic bid
—no signs whatsoever that a weak ECAC impeded our ability to play with the best (we played two of our best games of the season in the NCAAs against the #5 and #3 teams in the country)
—don't have to worry about our nemeses winning national titles before we do (let's pray Q doesn't repeat)

This post is tongue-in-cheek but I really do think a weak ECAC was good for us this year. Just as it was in 2003...

With no more games to focus on :`-( here's a late season update for our listed recruits. We have plenty of talent in the pipeline:

• Erick Roest, G, Sherwood Park Crusaders (AJHL) -- 31 GP, 2.78 GAG, .907 save pct.; (BCHL) 17 GP, 3.19 GAG, 9.11 save pct.
• Alex Pelletier, LW, Avon Old Farms Prep -- 27 GP, 17 G, 23 A; listed by New England Hockey Journal as one of the top prep players in 23-24
• Cole Tuminaro, D, Sioux  City (USHL) -- 41 GP, 1 G, 5 A; a regular in the USHL as a 17-year-old
• Aiden Long -- LW, Madison (USHL) -- 52 GP, 7 G, 12 A
• Giovanni DiGiulian -- C, Kent School Prep -- 26 GP, 25 G, 24 A; New England Hockey Journal wrote recently: "DiGiulian entered this season a Cornell commit on NHL Central Scouting's list. He finished this season a Cornell commit who should be drafted. The South Burlington, Vt., native scored 25 goals and 49 points. Two of those goals came in the Large School final against Dexter Southfield. He proved himself to be impactful no matter the stakes, but he really elevated in the big moments"
• Connor Arsenault -- C, St. Andrews Prep -- 53 GP, 32 G, 28 A
• Hudson Gorski -- D, Chicago (USHL) -- 54 GP, 2 G, 5 A; not big numbers as a defenseman, but I saw a clip of one of his two goals where he made a great move in the slot and scored on a great shot
• Michael Sandruck -- RW, Rochester Jr. Americans (NAHL) -- 24 GP, 8 G, 6 A; previously, Bishop Kearney Selects 18U AAA -- 34 GP, 19 G, 24 A
• Nicholas Wolfenberg -- D, Okotoks (AHJL) -- 36 GP, 6 G, 18 A; Salmon Arm (BCHL) — 14 GP, 0 G, 5 A
• Charlie Major -- C, Chicago (USHL) -- 58 GP, 30 G, 38 A
• Donovan Hamilton -- D, Cedar Rapids (USHL) -- 39 GP, 1 G, 2 A
• Justin Katz -- G, West Kelowna (BCHL) 7 GP, 3.11 GAA, .891 save pct.; Powell River (BCHL) — 10 GP, 3.26 GAG, 9.08 save pct.
• Chase Pirtle -- RW, Victoria (BCHL) -- 53 GP, 24 G, 24 A
• Michael Dec -- C, St. Andrews Prep -- 50 GP, 22 G, 26 A

   Henry Major — F, Bishop Kearney Selects U16 AAA — 58 GP, 49 G, 57 A; U16 AAA, 1 GP, 1 G, 0 A
    Parker Murray — F, Penticton (BCHL) — 7 GP, 1 G, 4 A; Chilliwack (BCHL) — 30 GP, 9 G, 11 A
[/list]

Tyler Wishart is no longer listed by Heisenberg as a Cornell recruit so I removed him from the list

It appears both Katz and Roest will be matriculating in the fall, so unless Koepple departs it seems we'll have 4 goalies on the roster. Katz was injured for quite some time, then got traded to Powell River, a last place team, and is facing lots of rubber. His save percentage has gone up since the trade. Since Roest's team moved into the BCHL, his GAG has gone up, but so has his save percentage. Both guys seem capable of becoming solid D1 goaltenders.

I assume forwards Pirtle, Charlie Major, and Murray will all be coming in the fall, and each of them look like they can contribute. Major especially has had a monster 2nd half of the season for the Steel. Given what we expect to have coming back, the competition for playing time will be fierce. Considering a guy like Sean Donaldson, who was a finalist for the BCHL MVP award, can hardly crack the lineup, it says volumes about the depth of talent Schafer has accumulated.

On defense I assume Wolfenberg is likely the only one coming in the fall. He seems like a solid prospect, but with the entire D corps scheduled back, it will also be hard for him to crack the lineup.

With the talent on the roster and what we have on the horizon, no reason we shouldn't remain a league and national contender for the foreseeable future.

Not to be a downer, and of course I hope it doesn't happen, but I could imagine a world where guys like Mosko and Donaldson enter the transfer portal, knowing that if they didn't get much time this year the same will likely be true next season. This wouldn't be too much of a problem as I believe they were the only guys to play and not get points for us this year but I still hope they stay. Same goes for Keopple between the pipes. I really can't imagine Shane leaving so I'm not gonna worry myself thinking about that unless I hear otherwise.

I just got scooped...by scoop! Seriously, I was in the middle of typing out a very similar post. I agree with much of what you said. I'm not sure how it would work regarding the goalie situation—will the Cornell coaches hold one of them back in juniors? Frankly, whoever comes next year will just be waiting behind Shane anyway, so I don't think it makes much sense from either Cornell's or Katz's/Roest's perspective for them to both matriculate next year.

I'm curious if we see any Cornell players enter the transfer portal. Competition for playing time next year is going to be fierce. At forward, we subtract Seger and add three freshmen, all of whom seem capable of cracking the lineup, with Major and perhaps Pirtle being very likely good enough to play right away. I wonder if Pirtle goes to the USHL for a year, just because of the playing time issue. Remember, next year we also get back Kovich, who missed almost this entire season with an injury. (With that said, we had very few injuries this year, so we may need depth more next season than we did this year.)

Similarly, at D, we lose nobody and have 6 shoe-ins to play next season who are already on the team. Wolfenberg was a highly regarded recruit but seems to have gotten injured this season. He and Mosko may need to wait for Suda/Rego/Kempf to graduate before seeing regular playing time. (However, we have a bunch more defensemen in the pipeline, so even then...)

Part of the nonsense regarding the fifth year eligibility was that it inflated roster size and made playing time difficult for new recruits. With Penney/O'Leary/Rego all returning, Cornell is finally experiencing some of this. I guess we will see how loyal players like Keopple and Donaldson are to the program. Both of these players on paper should (and maybe ultimately will) get playing time. But the immediate future looks very difficult.

As far as draft picks are concerned, seems the only recruit with a legitimate shot of being drafted is DiGiulian. However, the Cornell player most likely to be drafted may already be on the team (Ben Robertson).

If it's possible to hold guys for another year of USHL seasoning, now would be when to do it.

17 Forwards and 11 Defenseman fighting for 12 / 6 / +1 slots, respectively, is 9 guys sitting, not including 3 goalies not named Ian Shane.

Since all 14 returning F seem to be keepers, I wonder if we will see one or more drop back?  I could see Wallace on the blue line.

If Rayhill has been a healthy scratch for 3 years I guess he will be pursuing a fine career in sports journalism.  I don't know if Steele was hurt this season.  O'Brien is the next obvious guy on the bubble.  Then you get to Kovich and Donaldson and, wow, I guess it's a good problem to have when guys of that caliber are your perma-bench.

This is of course ignoring defections, but also portal raids like Seger.  Are there any faceoff specialists or snipers on bad NCHC / HE teams who would like to be the final piece of an F4 team? That's our world, now, and you know Rand will be backing up the truck.

Um, of academics.  The truck of academics. Yeah.

Quote from: scoop85With no more games to focus on :`-( here's a late season update for our listed recruits. We have plenty of talent in the pipeline:

I have never seen us line up the talent at center that we seem to have and are bringing in. I have to assume some of those guys are going to be converted to wing, but my god.

Quote from: TrotskyIf it's possible to hold guys for another year of USCHO seasoning, now would be when to do it.

17 Forwards and 11 Defenseman fighting for 12 / 6 / +1 slots, respectively, is 9 guys sitting, not including 3 goalies not named Ian Shane.

Since all 14 returning F seem to be keepers, I wonder if we will see one or more drop back?  I could see Wallace on the blue line.

If Rayhill has been a healthy scratch for 3 years I guess he will be pursuing a fine career in sports journalism.  I don't know if Steele was hurt this season.  O'Brien is the next obvious guy on the bubble.  Then you get to Kovich and Donaldson and, wow, I guess it's a good problem to have when guys of that caliber are your perma-bench.

This is of course ignoring defections, but also portal raids like Seger.  Are there any faceoff specialists or snipers on bad NCHC / HE teams who would like to be the final piece of an F4 team? That's our world, now, and you know Rand will be backing up the truck.

Um, of academics.  The truck of academics. Yeah.

No incoming transfers this year. I can assure you of that. There are no roster spots.

I guess Catalano may be pushed back to healthy scratches with the freshman class. He's a good physical player but he's not the game changing type that you feel like you need in the game.

Quote from: BearLoverI just got scooped...by scoop! Seriously, I was in the middle of typing out a very similar post. I agree with much of what you said. I'm not sure how it would work regarding the goalie situation—will the Cornell coaches hold one of them back in juniors? Frankly, whoever comes next year will just be waiting behind Shane anyway, so I don't think it makes much sense from either Cornell's or Katz's/Roest's perspective for them to both matriculate next year.

I'm curious if we see any Cornell players enter the transfer portal. Competition for playing time next year is going to be fierce. At forward, we subtract Seger and add three freshmen, all of whom seem capable of cracking the lineup, with Major and perhaps Pirtle being very likely good enough to play right away. I wonder if Pirtle goes to the USHL for a year, just because of the playing time issue. Remember, next year we also get back Kovich, who missed almost this entire season with an injury. (With that said, we had very few injuries this year, so we may need depth more next season than we did this year.)

Similarly, at D, we lose nobody and have 6 shoe-ins to play next season who are already on the team. Wolfenberg was a highly regarded recruit but seems to have gotten injured this season. He and Mosko may need to wait for Suda/Rego/Kempf to graduate before seeing regular playing time. (However, we have a bunch more defensemen in the pipeline, so even then...)

Part of the nonsense regarding the fifth year eligibility was that it inflated roster size and made playing time difficult for new recruits. With Penney/O'Leary/Rego all returning, Cornell is finally experiencing some of this. I guess we will see how loyal players like Keopple and Donaldson are to the program. Both of these players on paper should (and maybe ultimately will) get playing time. But the immediate future looks very difficult.

As far as draft picks are concerned, seems the only recruit with a legitimate shot of being drafted is DiGiulian. However, the Cornell player most likely to be drafted may already be on the team (Ben Robertson).

Logically we'd want to hold a slew of these guys back, but I assume at least a few of them may be aging out of juniors (I don't have time to look it up), so that may not be an option across the board.

"We aren't losing enough players to make room for impact freshmen" is a good problem to have, but it's still a problem.

Quote from: scoop85

Quote from: BearLoverI just got scooped...by scoop! Seriously, I was in the middle of typing out a very similar post. I agree with much of what you said. I'm not sure how it would work regarding the goalie situation—will the Cornell coaches hold one of them back in juniors? Frankly, whoever comes next year will just be waiting behind Shane anyway, so I don't think it makes much sense from either Cornell's or Katz's/Roest's perspective for them to both matriculate next year.

I'm curious if we see any Cornell players enter the transfer portal. Competition for playing time next year is going to be fierce. At forward, we subtract Seger and add three freshmen, all of whom seem capable of cracking the lineup, with Major and perhaps Pirtle being very likely good enough to play right away. I wonder if Pirtle goes to the USHL for a year, just because of the playing time issue. Remember, next year we also get back Kovich, who missed almost this entire season with an injury. (With that said, we had very few injuries this year, so we may need depth more next season than we did this year.)

Similarly, at D, we lose nobody and have 6 shoe-ins to play next season who are already on the team. Wolfenberg was a highly regarded recruit but seems to have gotten injured this season. He and Mosko may need to wait for Suda/Rego/Kempf to graduate before seeing regular playing time. (However, we have a bunch more defensemen in the pipeline, so even then...)

Part of the nonsense regarding the fifth year eligibility was that it inflated roster size and made playing time difficult for new recruits. With Penney/O'Leary/Rego all returning, Cornell is finally experiencing some of this. I guess we will see how loyal players like Keopple and Donaldson are to the program. Both of these players on paper should (and maybe ultimately will) get playing time. But the immediate future looks very difficult.

As far as draft picks are concerned, seems the only recruit with a legitimate shot of being drafted is DiGiulian. However, the Cornell player most likely to be drafted may already be on the team (Ben Robertson).

Logically we'd want to hold a slew of these guys back, but I assume at least a few of them may be aging out of juniors (I don't have time to look it up), so that may not be an option across the board.

I'm not certain what the exact age cutoff is, but I believe only Parker Murray will age out of juniors next season. He is the only '03 recruit.

Quote from: BearLoverI just got scooped...by scoop! Seriously, I was in the middle of typing out a very similar post. I agree with much of what you said. I'm not sure how it would work regarding the goalie situation—will the Cornell coaches hold one of them back in juniors? Frankly, whoever comes next year will just be waiting behind Shane anyway, so I don't think it makes much sense from either Cornell's or Katz's/Roest's perspective for them to both matriculate next year.

I'm curious if we see any Cornell players enter the transfer portal. Competition for playing time next year is going to be fierce. At forward, we subtract Seger and add three freshmen, all of whom seem capable of cracking the lineup, with Major and perhaps Pirtle being very likely good enough to play right away. I wonder if Pirtle goes to the USHL for a year, just because of the playing time issue. Remember, next year we also get back Kovich, who missed almost this entire season with an injury. (With that said, we had very few injuries this year, so we may need depth more next season than we did this year.)

Similarly, at D, we lose nobody and have 6 shoe-ins to play next season who are already on the team. Wolfenberg was a highly regarded recruit but seems to have gotten injured this season. He and Mosko may need to wait for Suda/Rego/Kempf to graduate before seeing regular playing time. (However, we have a bunch more defensemen in the pipeline, so even then...)

Part of the nonsense regarding the fifth year eligibility was that it inflated roster size and made playing time difficult for new recruits. With Penney/O'Leary/Rego all returning, Cornell is finally experiencing some of this. I guess we will see how loyal players like Keopple and Donaldson are to the program. Both of these players on paper should (and maybe ultimately will) get playing time. But the immediate future looks very difficult.

As far as draft picks are concerned, seems the only recruit with a legitimate shot of being drafted is DiGiulian. However, the Cornell player most likely to be drafted may already be on the team (Ben Robertson).

After the season he had, I have to imagine at least a few NHL teams have Robertson in their sights. If he's not worthy of being drafted in at least a 5th or 6th round, then I have no idea what these teams can be looking at. In December the Hockey News listed him in their top 10 of draft eligible players who were passed up in the 2023 draft, and he only got better from there.

Quote from: BearLoverI just got scooped...by scoop! Seriously, I was in the middle of typing out a very similar post. I agree with much of what you said. I'm not sure how it would work regarding the goalie situation—will the Cornell coaches hold one of them back in juniors? Frankly, whoever comes next year will just be waiting behind Shane anyway, so I don't think it makes much sense from either Cornell's or Katz's/Roest's perspective for them to both matriculate next year.

Schafer goes with a clear #1 in net during the season, but he has also shown flexibility to challenge him and replace him if necessary:

1997: Experimented through the season with Pelletier, settled on Elliott
2000: Burt beat out Underhill who then re-beat out Burt in arguably the only season-long fight
2002: Infamously started with Underhill before figuring out Leneveu was a deity
2007: Started with Davenport, changed to Scrivens
2011: Ran a straight-up Iles-Garman rotation all year
2022: started with McDonald-Howe, changed to Shane.

Quote from: BearLover

Quote from: TrotskyIf it's possible to hold guys for another year of USCHO seasoning, now would be when to do it.

17 Forwards and 11 Defenseman fighting for 12 / 6 / +1 slots, respectively, is 9 guys sitting, not including 3 goalies not named Ian Shane.

Since all 14 returning F seem to be keepers, I wonder if we will see one or more drop back?  I could see Wallace on the blue line.

If Rayhill has been a healthy scratch for 3 years I guess he will be pursuing a fine career in sports journalism.  I don't know if Steele was hurt this season.  O'Brien is the next obvious guy on the bubble.  Then you get to Kovich and Donaldson and, wow, I guess it's a good problem to have when guys of that caliber are your perma-bench.

This is of course ignoring defections, but also portal raids like Seger.  Are there any faceoff specialists or snipers on bad NCHC / HE teams who would like to be the final piece of an F4 team? That's our world, now, and you know Rand will be backing up the truck.

Um, of academics.  The truck of academics. Yeah.

No incoming transfers this year. I can assure you of that. There are no roster spots.

If god comes a knockin'...

Wonder if Charlie Major could get drafted this year. He's currently 7th in the USHL in both goals & total points.

I'm thinking Robertson is a 3rd round pick. Word has gotten around.

Quote from: BearLover

Quote from: scoop85

Quote from: BearLoverI just got scooped...by scoop! Seriously, I was in the middle of typing out a very similar post. I agree with much of what you said. I'm not sure how it would work regarding the goalie situation—will the Cornell coaches hold one of them back in juniors? Frankly, whoever comes next year will just be waiting behind Shane anyway, so I don't think it makes much sense from either Cornell's or Katz's/Roest's perspective for them to both matriculate next year.

I'm curious if we see any Cornell players enter the transfer portal. Competition for playing time next year is going to be fierce. At forward, we subtract Seger and add three freshmen, all of whom seem capable of cracking the lineup, with Major and perhaps Pirtle being very likely good enough to play right away. I wonder if Pirtle goes to the USHL for a year, just because of the playing time issue. Remember, next year we also get back Kovich, who missed almost this entire season with an injury. (With that said, we had very few injuries this year, so we may need depth more next season than we did this year.)

Similarly, at D, we lose nobody and have 6 shoe-ins to play next season who are already on the team. Wolfenberg was a highly regarded recruit but seems to have gotten injured this season. He and Mosko may need to wait for Suda/Rego/Kempf to graduate before seeing regular playing time. (However, we have a bunch more defensemen in the pipeline, so even then...)

Part of the nonsense regarding the fifth year eligibility was that it inflated roster size and made playing time difficult for new recruits. With Penney/O'Leary/Rego all returning, Cornell is finally experiencing some of this. I guess we will see how loyal players like Keopple and Donaldson are to the program. Both of these players on paper should (and maybe ultimately will) get playing time. But the immediate future looks very difficult.

As far as draft picks are concerned, seems the only recruit with a legitimate shot of being drafted is DiGiulian. However, the Cornell player most likely to be drafted may already be on the team (Ben Robertson).

Logically we'd want to hold a slew of these guys back, but I assume at least a few of them may be aging out of juniors (I don't have time to look it up), so that may not be an option across the board.

I'm not certain what the exact age cutoff is, but I believe only Parker Murray will age out of juniors next season. He is the only '03 recruit.

That may well be the case. Must be some interesting conversations between the coaching staff, the recruits and their families about the best path forward for each player. I have to imagine even with the challenge of getting playing time, some of these guys who are going to be 20 will want to move forward with their college careers. Regardless it will be interesting to see who's on the incoming recruit announcement later this year.

Quote from: CASWonder if Charlie Major could get drafted this year. He's currently 7th in the USHL in both goals & total points.

.

Walsh was a 6th rounder after finishing 2nd in the USHL in points behind Celebrini, so you may be right about Major, especially given his great 2nd half of the season.

I think Walsh was a fairly unique case. It's possible, though. One analog to Robertson is Alex Green, another puck moving D who was drafted in the fourth round in 2018 after his freshman season at Cornell. Green had several inches on Robertson but nowhere near Robertson's level of production in either juniors or during freshman year.

Quote from: TrotskyIf it's possible to hold guys for another year of USCHO seasoning, now would be when to do it....

If Rayhill has been a healthy scratch for 3 years I guess he will be pursuing a fine career in sports journalism...

interesting

USHL. The Times regrets the error.

It was not a shot.  Rayhill hosted the Cornell 2024 video and was fantastic.  Far better than the "talent" that comes out of Bristol.

Quote from: TrotskyUSHL. The Times regrets the error.

It was not a shot.  Rayhill hosted the Cornell 2024 video and was fantastic.  Far better than the "talent" that comes out of Bristol.

i didn't think it was. it's the offseason and we're arguing in the denver game thread over how much is the right amount of pain to feel. time to get stupid.

Quote from: BearLoverI think Walsh was a fairly unique case. It's possible, though. One analog to Robertson is Alex Green, another puck moving D who was drafted in the fourth round in 2018 after his freshman season at Cornell. Green had several inches on Robertson but nowhere near Robertson's level of production in either juniors or during freshman year.

While Green was a nice college defenseman, Robertson just has an "it" factor that Green didn't have. No reason Robertson shouldn't be a middle to late round pick given his performance. Someone made a comparison to Joakim Ryan, and I agree that Robertson's ceiling is higher. He also has a lot of Malinski-like qualities.

Quote from: scoop85

Quote from: BearLoverI think Walsh was a fairly unique case. It's possible, though. One analog to Robertson is Alex Green, another puck moving D who was drafted in the fourth round in 2018 after his freshman season at Cornell. Green had several inches on Robertson but nowhere near Robertson's level of production in either juniors or during freshman year.

While Green was a nice college defenseman, Robertson just has an "it" factor that Green didn't have. No reason Robertson shouldn't be a middle to late round pick given his performance. Someone made a comparison to Joakim Ryan, and I agree that Robertson's ceiling is higher. He also has a lot of Malinski-like qualities.

Yes.

Quote from: ugarte

Quote from: TrotskyUSHL. The Times regrets the error.

It was not a shot.  Rayhill hosted the Cornell 2024 video and was fantastic.  Far better than the "talent" that comes out of Bristol.

i didn't think it was. it's the offseason and we're arguing in the denver game thread over how much is the right amount of pain to feel. time to get stupid.

And we're just the guys to do it.

Chase Pirtle is the 2nd highest scoring
'05 in the BCHL

Quote from: CASChase Pirtle is the 2nd highest scoring
'05 in the BCHL

And the '05 he's right behind plays for Surrey, which is 44-8, so the other guy likely has a stronger supporting cast.

Quote from: Scersk '97

Quote from: scoop85With no more games to focus on :`-( here's a late season update for our listed recruits. We have plenty of talent in the pipeline:

I have never seen us line up the talent at center that we seem to have and are bringing in. I have to assume some of those guys are going to be converted to wing, but my god.

IIRC, Dan Lodboa was a forward when he came to Cornell, but Ned (aka "God" ) already had a few good forwards. So, he converted Dan to play as a D. Ned would later say Dan was the best hockey player he'd ever coached.

So, if history were to repeat itself, I'd take it! ::cheer::

Quote from: Swampy

Quote from: Scersk '97

Quote from: scoop85With no more games to focus on :`-( here's a late season update for our listed recruits. We have plenty of talent in the pipeline:

I have never seen us line up the talent at center that we seem to have and are bringing in. I have to assume some of those guys are going to be converted to wing, but my god.

IIRC, Dan Lodboa was a forward when he came to Cornell, but Ned (aka "God" ) already had a few good forwards. So, he converted Dan to play as a D. Ned would later say Dan was the best hockey player he'd ever coached.

So, if history were to repeat itself, I'd take it! ::cheer::

I recently read a book called "They Did Everything But Win" about the Emile Francis Rangers of the 60's and 70's. There were some unflattering passages about Ned in the book; as I've heard elsewhere over the years, apparently his Red Wings players largely detested him and his "rah rah" college style approach. Certainly not the first or last time a college coach didn't work out in the pros.

Quote from: Swampy

Quote from: Scersk '97

Quote from: scoop85With no more games to focus on :`-( here's a late season update for our listed recruits. We have plenty of talent in the pipeline:

I have never seen us line up the talent at center that we seem to have and are bringing in. I have to assume some of those guys are going to be converted to wing, but my god.

IIRC, Dan Lodboa was a forward when he came to Cornell, but Ned (aka "God" ) already had a few good forwards. So, he converted Dan to play as a D. Ned would later say Dan was the best hockey player he'd ever coached.

So, if history were to repeat itself, I'd take it! ::cheer::

Harry Orr, Steve Giuliani, Bruce Pattison and Lodboa were all forwards when they came to Cornell, then moved to defense by Ned.  Could be others I'm forgetting.

Quote from: scoop85

Quote from: Swampy

Quote from: Scersk '97

Quote from: scoop85With no more games to focus on :`-( here's a late season update for our listed recruits. We have plenty of talent in the pipeline:

I have never seen us line up the talent at center that we seem to have and are bringing in. I have to assume some of those guys are going to be converted to wing, but my god.

IIRC, Dan Lodboa was a forward when he came to Cornell, but Ned (aka "God" ) already had a few good forwards. So, he converted Dan to play as a D. Ned would later say Dan was the best hockey player he'd ever coached.

So, if history were to repeat itself, I'd take it! ::cheer::

I recently read a book called "They Did Everything But Win" about the Emile Francis Rangers of the 60's and 70's. There were some unflattering passages about Ned in the book; as I've heard elsewhere over the years, apparently his Red Wings players largely detested him and his "rah rah" college style approach. Certainly not the first or last time a college coach didn't work out in the pros.

Question of the Day: Suppose Schafer was to coach for another seven years here, during which time he would win 2 NC's, with the second one being only the second time in NC$$ history that a Division I ice hockey team would go undefeated & untied. After that, he would spend a season as a NHL coach, during which time the pro players would reject him because of his "rah rah" college style.* Then, he would serve three years as the GM of the pro team, after which he would return to coaching college hockey at another ECAC school (not Harvard). There, before he retired, he would win his third NC.

Would you reject this scenario or welcome it?

*I haven't read "They Did Everything But Win," so I don't know if there's more criticism of Harkness. But here's how Wikipedia describes that brief cup of coffee as a NHL coach: "A veteran and aging Detroit roster had resisted adapting to Harkness's more progressive methods.[5] Things that are commonplace and obvious today, such as no cigar smoking in the locker room between periods and shorter ice shifts caused a mutiny by the veteran players.[5]"

The reference is to: Allen, Kevin; Duff, Bob (Oct 15, 2014). 100 Things Red Wings Fans Should Know & Do Before They Die. Triumph Books. ISBN 9781623689827

Quote from: Swampy

Quote from: scoop85

Quote from: Swampy

Quote from: Scersk '97

Quote from: scoop85With no more games to focus on :`-( here's a late season update for our listed recruits. We have plenty of talent in the pipeline:

I have never seen us line up the talent at center that we seem to have and are bringing in. I have to assume some of those guys are going to be converted to wing, but my god.

IIRC, Dan Lodboa was a forward when he came to Cornell, but Ned (aka "God" ) already had a few good forwards. So, he converted Dan to play as a D. Ned would later say Dan was the best hockey player he'd ever coached.

So, if history were to repeat itself, I'd take it! ::cheer::

I recently read a book called "They Did Everything But Win" about the Emile Francis Rangers of the 60's and 70's. There were some unflattering passages about Ned in the book; as I've heard elsewhere over the years, apparently his Red Wings players largely detested him and his "rah rah" college style approach. Certainly not the first or last time a college coach didn't work out in the pros.

Question of the Day: Suppose Schafer was to coach for another seven years here, during which time he would win 2 NC's, with the second one being only the second time in NC$$ history that a Division I ice hockey team would go undefeated & untied. After that, he would spend a season as a NHL coach, during which time the pro players would reject him because of his "rah rah" college style.* Then, he would serve three years as the GM of the pro team, after which he would return to coaching college hockey at another ECAC school (not Harvard). There, before he retired, he would win his third NC.

Would you reject this scenario or welcome it?

???????????????

Quote???????????????

1 Samuel 26:9

Quote from: Swampy

Quote from: scoop85

Quote from: Swampy

Quote from: Scersk '97

Quote from: scoop85With no more games to focus on :`-( here's a late season update for our listed recruits. We have plenty of talent in the pipeline:

I have never seen us line up the talent at center that we seem to have and are bringing in. I have to assume some of those guys are going to be converted to wing, but my god.

IIRC, Dan Lodboa was a forward when he came to Cornell, but Ned (aka "God" ) already had a few good forwards. So, he converted Dan to play as a D. Ned would later say Dan was the best hockey player he'd ever coached.

So, if history were to repeat itself, I'd take it! ::cheer::

I recently read a book called "They Did Everything But Win" about the Emile Francis Rangers of the 60's and 70's. There were some unflattering passages about Ned in the book; as I've heard elsewhere over the years, apparently his Red Wings players largely detested him and his "rah rah" college style approach. Certainly not the first or last time a college coach didn't work out in the pros.

Question of the Day: Suppose Schafer was to coach for another seven years here, during which time he would win 2 NC's, with the second one being only the second time in NC$$ history that a Division I ice hockey team would go undefeated & untied. After that ... he would return to coaching college hockey at another ECAC school (not Harvard). There, before he retired, he would win his third NC.

Would you reject this scenario or welcome it?

no! do not throw me into the briar patch!

Quote from: Swampy

Quote from: scoop85

Quote from: Swampy

Quote from: Scersk '97

Quote from: scoop85With no more games to focus on :`-( here's a late season update for our listed recruits. We have plenty of talent in the pipeline:

I have never seen us line up the talent at center that we seem to have and are bringing in. I have to assume some of those guys are going to be converted to wing, but my god.

IIRC, Dan Lodboa was a forward when he came to Cornell, but Ned (aka "God" ) already had a few good forwards. So, he converted Dan to play as a D. Ned would later say Dan was the best hockey player he'd ever coached.

So, if history were to repeat itself, I'd take it! ::cheer::

I recently read a book called "They Did Everything But Win" about the Emile Francis Rangers of the 60's and 70's. There were some unflattering passages about Ned in the book; as I've heard elsewhere over the years, apparently his Red Wings players largely detested him and his "rah rah" college style approach. Certainly not the first or last time a college coach didn't work out in the pros.

Question of the Day: Suppose Schafer was to coach for another seven years here, during which time he would win 2 NC's, with the second one being only the second time in NC$$ history that a Division I ice hockey team would go undefeated & untied. After that, he would spend a season as a NHL coach, during which time the pro players would reject him because of his "rah rah" college style.* Then, he would serve three years as the GM of the pro team, after which he would return to coaching college hockey at another ECAC school (not Harvard). There, before he retired, he would win his third NC.

Would you reject this scenario or welcome it?

*I haven't read "They Did Everything But Win," so I don't know if there's more criticism of Harkness. But here's how Wikipedia describes that brief cup of coffee as a NHL coach: "A veteran and aging Detroit roster had resisted adapting to Harkness's more progressive methods.[5] Things that are commonplace and obvious today, such as no cigar smoking in the locker room between periods and shorter ice shifts caused a mutiny by the veteran players.[5]"

The reference is to: Allen, Kevin; Duff, Bob (Oct 15, 2014). 100 Things Red Wings Fans Should Know & Do Before They Die. Triumph Books. ISBN 9781623689827

When we played at Michigan State to open the '19-'20 season, I found a copy of Kevin Allen's book in the bookstore across the street from campus.  The chapter on Ned was entitled "Ned Harkness was Ahead of His Time" or something very similar.  Kevin Allen was the lead hockey writer for USA Today for decades.  A few years before his book came out, I had actually posted something on this website about the cigar smoking issue while Ned coached at Detroit (Maybe Kevin Allen reads elynah).

Quote from: Trotsky

Quote from: BearLoverI just got scooped...by scoop! Seriously, I was in the middle of typing out a very similar post. I agree with much of what you said. I'm not sure how it would work regarding the goalie situation—will the Cornell coaches hold one of them back in juniors? Frankly, whoever comes next year will just be waiting behind Shane anyway, so I don't think it makes much sense from either Cornell's or Katz's/Roest's perspective for them to both matriculate next year.

Schafer goes with a clear #1 in net during the season, but he has also shown flexibility to challenge him and replace him if necessary:

1997: Experimented through the season with Pelletier, settled on Elliott
2000: Burt beat out Underhill who then re-beat out Burt in arguably the only season-long fight
2002: Infamously started with Underhill before figuring out Leneveu was a deity
2007: Started with Davenport, changed to Scrivens
2011: Ran a straight-up Iles-Garman rotation all year
2022: started with McDonald-Howe, changed to Shane.

Is that really true about 2002? And not sure if by 2002 you mean 2001-02 or 2002-03 ... the former, Leneveu got more PT as the season went on, but Underhill started the 2002 ECAC final (and allowed a not great GWG) and the NCAAs. In 2002-03 - Underhill was gone.

Quote from: adamw

Quote from: Trotsky

Quote from: BearLoverI just got scooped...by scoop! Seriously, I was in the middle of typing out a very similar post. I agree with much of what you said. I'm not sure how it would work regarding the goalie situation—will the Cornell coaches hold one of them back in juniors? Frankly, whoever comes next year will just be waiting behind Shane anyway, so I don't think it makes much sense from either Cornell's or Katz's/Roest's perspective for them to both matriculate next year.

Schafer goes with a clear #1 in net during the season, but he has also shown flexibility to challenge him and replace him if necessary:

1997: Experimented through the season with Pelletier, settled on Elliott
2000: Burt beat out Underhill who then re-beat out Burt in arguably the only season-long fight
2002: Infamously started with Underhill before figuring out Leneveu was a deity
2007: Started with Davenport, changed to Scrivens
2011: Ran a straight-up Iles-Garman rotation all year
2022: started with McDonald-Howe, changed to Shane.

Is that really true about 2002? And not sure if by 2002 you mean 2001-02 or 2002-03 ... the former, Leneveu got more PT as the season went on, but Underhill started the 2002 ECAC final (and allowed a not great GWG) and the NCAAs. In 2002-03 - Underhill was gone.

I recall 2002 being platoon almost all year with the exception of a couple weeks underhill was hurt?

Quote from: Chris '03

Quote from: adamw

Quote from: Trotsky

Quote from: BearLoverI just got scooped...by scoop! Seriously, I was in the middle of typing out a very similar post. I agree with much of what you said. I'm not sure how it would work regarding the goalie situation—will the Cornell coaches hold one of them back in juniors? Frankly, whoever comes next year will just be waiting behind Shane anyway, so I don't think it makes much sense from either Cornell's or Katz's/Roest's perspective for them to both matriculate next year.

Schafer goes with a clear #1 in net during the season, but he has also shown flexibility to challenge him and replace him if necessary:

1997: Experimented through the season with Pelletier, settled on Elliott
2000: Burt beat out Underhill who then re-beat out Burt in arguably the only season-long fight
2002: Infamously started with Underhill before figuring out Leneveu was a deity
2007: Started with Davenport, changed to Scrivens
2011: Ran a straight-up Iles-Garman rotation all year
2022: started with McDonald-Howe, changed to Shane.

Is that really true about 2002? And not sure if by 2002 you mean 2001-02 or 2002-03 ... the former, Leneveu got more PT as the season went on, but Underhill started the 2002 ECAC final (and allowed a not great GWG) and the NCAAs. In 2002-03 - Underhill was gone.

I recall 2002 being platoon almost all year with the exception of a couple weeks underhill was hurt?

Underhill played 21 games, Leneveu 14

https://www.collegehockeynews.com/stats/team/Cornell/18/overall,20012002

Quote from: Chris '03

Quote from: adamw

Quote from: Trotsky

Quote from: BearLoverI just got scooped...by scoop! Seriously, I was in the middle of typing out a very similar post. I agree with much of what you said. I'm not sure how it would work regarding the goalie situation—will the Cornell coaches hold one of them back in juniors? Frankly, whoever comes next year will just be waiting behind Shane anyway, so I don't think it makes much sense from either Cornell's or Katz's/Roest's perspective for them to both matriculate next year.

Schafer goes with a clear #1 in net during the season, but he has also shown flexibility to challenge him and replace him if necessary:

1997: Experimented through the season with Pelletier, settled on Elliott
2000: Burt beat out Underhill who then re-beat out Burt in arguably the only season-long fight
2002: Infamously started with Underhill before figuring out Leneveu was a deity
2007: Started with Davenport, changed to Scrivens
2011: Ran a straight-up Iles-Garman rotation all year
2022: started with McDonald-Howe, changed to Shane.

Is that really true about 2002? And not sure if by 2002 you mean 2001-02 or 2002-03 ... the former, Leneveu got more PT as the season went on, but Underhill started the 2002 ECAC final (and allowed a not great GWG) and the NCAAs. In 2002-03 - Underhill was gone.

I recall 2002 being platoon almost all year with the exception of a couple weeks underhill was hurt?

I recall the same, at least for the regular season; Underhill got all the postseason starts.  I also don't think the coaches had any trouble figuring out what they had with Leneveu, as he wound up splitting time with Underhill despite Underhill's 2000-01 season in which he became the first Big Red goaltender to post a sub-2.00 GAA since Cropper in 1970.

Quote from: Give My RegardsI recall the same, at least for the regular season; Underhill got all the postseason starts.  I also don't think the coaches had any trouble figuring out what they had with Leneveu, as he wound up splitting time with Underhill despite Underhill's 2000-01 season in which he became the first Big Red goaltender to post a sub-2.00 GAA since Cropper in 1970.

Underhill starts (game number):

2
3
4
5

At this point, Underhill has played 4 straight games, including Lynah East, which he loses 3-4 in overtime.

7
9
11
12
14
16
18
20
22
24
27

11 starts in 22 games during the middle of the season, a pure rotation

29
30
31
32
33
34
35

Final 7 games are all Underhill, including the full post-season. Note that Underhill breaks the rotation with games of GA 1, 1, 2, 0.

My understanding is that Wishart is headed to play at  Middlebury.

Such a difficult thing to predict who will develop and how.  Guys who lit it up in juniors sometimes get to college and are a little fried and maybe don't push as much as they once did.  Or maybe they hit a ceiling while other kids really do not.  I have a son who is a good player and what they tell you is that as you move up you have to improve and dominate at every level that you reach.  That's hard to do! I think its safe to say that the USHL is largely D1 commits and that provides the highest level of competition for players to develop so that's probably the best place to play if you're a D1 commit.  So expect a kid like Charlie Major to come in and contribute immediately a la Ryan Walsh.  Sean Donaldson dominated the BCHL which is different.  Jacob Kraft didnt dominate but put up great numbers for Cedar Rapids in the USHL.  DeGiulian was drafted by the Lincoln Stars and my understanding is he will play juniors for a least a year.

As my son's coach put it this year, you're not playing college hockey until you're on the ice playing college hockey!

Quote from: PghasMy understanding is that Wishart is headed to play at  Middlebury.

Such a difficult thing to predict who will develop and how.  Guys who lit it up in juniors sometimes get to college and are a little fried and maybe don't push as much as they once did.  Or maybe they hit a ceiling while other kids really do not.  I have a son who is a good player and what they tell you is that as you move up you have to improve and dominate at every level that you reach.  That's hard to do! I think its safe to say that the USHL is largely D1 commits and that provides the highest level of competition for players to develop so that's probably the best place to play if you're a D1 commit.  So expect a kid like Charlie Major to come in and contribute immediately a la Ryan Walsh.  Sean Donaldson dominated the BCHL which is different.  Jacob Kraft didnt dominate but put up great numbers for Cedar Rapids in the USHL.  DeGiulian was drafted by the Lincoln Stars and my understanding is he will play juniors for a least a year.

As my son's coach put it this year, you're not playing college hockey until you're on the ice playing college hockey!

Well said. I am not involved with junior hockey, but from following recruiting, college success is certainly difficult to predict. We've even seen players be drafted by NHL teams and struggle to make Cornell's lineup (eg. Cairns, Tschantz, Song) or barely produce. I agree with you that putting up a lot of points in the USHL is the surest sign of college success. But still far from guaranteed. Dwyer Tschantz put up really good numbers in the USHL, for example. In his case I think he suffered some injuries, but I'm pretty sure he was a healthy scratch a lot too.

The Donaldson situation seems particularly aberrational. Seventh in the BCHL in points/4th in goals, but can't crack the lineup as a sophomore. Did he plateau once he got to college? Is he unreliable on defense? Does Cornell have a glut of left shot forwards? Looking purely at the junior hockey numbers of the forwards in last year's freshman class, it would have been impossible to tell that Bancroft (insane numbers in the OJHL, which is weaker than the BCHL) would be the best performer, then DeSantis (very good numbers in the USHL), then Wallace (good numbers in the USHL), then Donaldson (fantastic numbers in the BCHL). Obviously, hockey (and especially Cornell Hockey) is way more than just offensive numbers—maybe that's the point.

One thing notable about all of this is that Donaldson and Keopple and the other guys not seeing the ice haven't entered the transfer portal. At other programs, players like them would have bolted  the minute the season ended (or sooner). It says a lot about how Schafer runs the team that these guys are sticking with it.

Quote from: BearLover

Quote from: PghasMy understanding is that Wishart is headed to play at  Middlebury.

Such a difficult thing to predict who will develop and how.  Guys who lit it up in juniors sometimes get to college and are a little fried and maybe don't push as much as they once did.  Or maybe they hit a ceiling while other kids really do not.  I have a son who is a good player and what they tell you is that as you move up you have to improve and dominate at every level that you reach.  That's hard to do! I think its safe to say that the USHL is largely D1 commits and that provides the highest level of competition for players to develop so that's probably the best place to play if you're a D1 commit.  So expect a kid like Charlie Major to come in and contribute immediately a la Ryan Walsh.  Sean Donaldson dominated the BCHL which is different.  Jacob Kraft didnt dominate but put up great numbers for Cedar Rapids in the USHL.  DeGiulian was drafted by the Lincoln Stars and my understanding is he will play juniors for a least a year.

As my son's coach put it this year, you're not playing college hockey until you're on the ice playing college hockey!

Well said. I am not involved with junior hockey, but from following recruiting, college success is certainly difficult to predict. We've even seen players be drafted by NHL teams and struggle to make Cornell's lineup (eg. Cairns, Tschantz, Song) or barely produce. I agree with you that putting up a lot of points in the USHL is the surest sign of college success. But still far from guaranteed. Dwyer Tschantz put up really good numbers in the USHL, for example. In his case I think he suffered some injuries, but I'm pretty sure he was a healthy scratch a lot too.

The Donaldson situation seems particularly aberrational. Seventh in the BCHL in points/4th in goals, but can't crack the lineup as a sophomore. Did he plateau once he got to college? Is he unreliable on defense? Does Cornell have a glut of left shot forwards? Looking purely at the junior hockey numbers of the forwards in last year's freshman class, it would have been impossible to tell that Bancroft (insane numbers in the OJHL, which is weaker than the BCHL) would be the best performer, then DeSantis (very good numbers in the USHL), then Wallace (good numbers in the USHL), then Donaldson (fantastic numbers in the BCHL). Obviously, hockey (and especially Cornell Hockey) is way more than just offensive numbers—maybe that's the point.

One thing notable about all of this is that Donaldson and Keopple and the other guys not seeing the ice haven't entered the transfer portal. At other programs, players like them would have bolted  the minute the season ended (or sooner). It says a lot about how Schafer runs the team that these guys are sticking with it.

It says a lot about the players too.  Think of a second string wrestler who is essentially the practice partner for a first stringer.  John Irving, the author, talks about not being able to complete 4 years at Pitt (I think it was Pitt) as a practice partner.  And he thinks those that can do that have character that many do not.

Quote from: marty

Quote from: BearLover

Quote from: PghasMy understanding is that Wishart is headed to play at  Middlebury.

Such a difficult thing to predict who will develop and how.  Guys who lit it up in juniors sometimes get to college and are a little fried and maybe don't push as much as they once did.  Or maybe they hit a ceiling while other kids really do not.  I have a son who is a good player and what they tell you is that as you move up you have to improve and dominate at every level that you reach.  That's hard to do! I think its safe to say that the USHL is largely D1 commits and that provides the highest level of competition for players to develop so that's probably the best place to play if you're a D1 commit.  So expect a kid like Charlie Major to come in and contribute immediately a la Ryan Walsh.  Sean Donaldson dominated the BCHL which is different.  Jacob Kraft didnt dominate but put up great numbers for Cedar Rapids in the USHL.  DeGiulian was drafted by the Lincoln Stars and my understanding is he will play juniors for a least a year.

As my son's coach put it this year, you're not playing college hockey until you're on the ice playing college hockey!

Well said. I am not involved with junior hockey, but from following recruiting, college success is certainly difficult to predict. We've even seen players be drafted by NHL teams and struggle to make Cornell's lineup (eg. Cairns, Tschantz, Song) or barely produce. I agree with you that putting up a lot of points in the USHL is the surest sign of college success. But still far from guaranteed. Dwyer Tschantz put up really good numbers in the USHL, for example. In his case I think he suffered some injuries, but I'm pretty sure he was a healthy scratch a lot too.

The Donaldson situation seems particularly aberrational. Seventh in the BCHL in points/4th in goals, but can't crack the lineup as a sophomore. Did he plateau once he got to college? Is he unreliable on defense? Does Cornell have a glut of left shot forwards? Looking purely at the junior hockey numbers of the forwards in last year's freshman class, it would have been impossible to tell that Bancroft (insane numbers in the OJHL, which is weaker than the BCHL) would be the best performer, then DeSantis (very good numbers in the USHL), then Wallace (good numbers in the USHL), then Donaldson (fantastic numbers in the BCHL). Obviously, hockey (and especially Cornell Hockey) is way more than just offensive numbers—maybe that's the point.

One thing notable about all of this is that Donaldson and Keopple and the other guys not seeing the ice haven't entered the transfer portal. At other programs, players like them would have bolted  the minute the season ended (or sooner). It says a lot about how Schafer runs the team that these guys are sticking with it.

It says a lot about the players too.  Think of a second string wrestler who is essentially the practice partner for a first stringer.  John Irving, the author, talks about not being able to complete 4 years at Pitt (I think it was Pitt) as a practice partner.  And he thinks those that can do that have character that many do not.

Is it naive of me to say that maybe these kids also value their education and don't expect to play in the NHL and recognize that a Cornell degree has a lifetime value that maybe other degrees do not.

Quote from: marty

Quote from: BearLover

Quote from: PghasMy understanding is that Wishart is headed to play at  Middlebury.

Such a difficult thing to predict who will develop and how.  Guys who lit it up in juniors sometimes get to college and are a little fried and maybe don't push as much as they once did.  Or maybe they hit a ceiling while other kids really do not.  I have a son who is a good player and what they tell you is that as you move up you have to improve and dominate at every level that you reach.  That's hard to do! I think its safe to say that the USHL is largely D1 commits and that provides the highest level of competition for players to develop so that's probably the best place to play if you're a D1 commit.  So expect a kid like Charlie Major to come in and contribute immediately a la Ryan Walsh.  Sean Donaldson dominated the BCHL which is different.  Jacob Kraft didnt dominate but put up great numbers for Cedar Rapids in the USHL.  DeGiulian was drafted by the Lincoln Stars and my understanding is he will play juniors for a least a year.

As my son's coach put it this year, you're not playing college hockey until you're on the ice playing college hockey!

Well said. I am not involved with junior hockey, but from following recruiting, college success is certainly difficult to predict. We've even seen players be drafted by NHL teams and struggle to make Cornell's lineup (eg. Cairns, Tschantz, Song) or barely produce. I agree with you that putting up a lot of points in the USHL is the surest sign of college success. But still far from guaranteed. Dwyer Tschantz put up really good numbers in the USHL, for example. In his case I think he suffered some injuries, but I'm pretty sure he was a healthy scratch a lot too.

The Donaldson situation seems particularly aberrational. Seventh in the BCHL in points/4th in goals, but can't crack the lineup as a sophomore. Did he plateau once he got to college? Is he unreliable on defense? Does Cornell have a glut of left shot forwards? Looking purely at the junior hockey numbers of the forwards in last year's freshman class, it would have been impossible to tell that Bancroft (insane numbers in the OJHL, which is weaker than the BCHL) would be the best performer, then DeSantis (very good numbers in the USHL), then Wallace (good numbers in the USHL), then Donaldson (fantastic numbers in the BCHL). Obviously, hockey (and especially Cornell Hockey) is way more than just offensive numbers—maybe that's the point.

One thing notable about all of this is that Donaldson and Keopple and the other guys not seeing the ice haven't entered the transfer portal. At other programs, players like them would have bolted  the minute the season ended (or sooner). It says a lot about how Schafer runs the team that these guys are sticking with it.

It says a lot about the players too.  Think of a second string wrestler who is essentially the practice partner for a first stringer.  John Irving, the author, talks about not being able to complete 4 years at Pitt (I think it was Pitt) as a practice partner.  And he thinks those that can do that have character that many do not.

I think there is a sense of accomplishment for a player at just getting to a certain level.  If you have put in the work and effort to make it to playing in prep school, or in college, or at Cornell, how much more is there?  That's not to say these kids dont want to play or care, but to many of them, academics may be the more important part of this picture (and should be).  They aren't going to the NHL, they play varsity hockey at Cornell, and maybe they dont get into as many games as they'd like.  Just being part of that team, at that level, where you all consider every guy just as important as the next, and going to a great school - who can blame a kid for not wanting to transfer to Union or Clarkson or even Yale or Brown?  At some point it is not just the single-minded purposeness of climbing the hockey ladder, its also about your life experience and path.

Quote from: Pghas

Quote from: marty

Quote from: BearLover

Quote from: PghasMy understanding is that Wishart is headed to play at  Middlebury.

Such a difficult thing to predict who will develop and how.  Guys who lit it up in juniors sometimes get to college and are a little fried and maybe don't push as much as they once did.  Or maybe they hit a ceiling while other kids really do not.  I have a son who is a good player and what they tell you is that as you move up you have to improve and dominate at every level that you reach.  That's hard to do! I think its safe to say that the USHL is largely D1 commits and that provides the highest level of competition for players to develop so that's probably the best place to play if you're a D1 commit.  So expect a kid like Charlie Major to come in and contribute immediately a la Ryan Walsh.  Sean Donaldson dominated the BCHL which is different.  Jacob Kraft didnt dominate but put up great numbers for Cedar Rapids in the USHL.  DeGiulian was drafted by the Lincoln Stars and my understanding is he will play juniors for a least a year.

As my son's coach put it this year, you're not playing college hockey until you're on the ice playing college hockey!

Well said. I am not involved with junior hockey, but from following recruiting, college success is certainly difficult to predict. We've even seen players be drafted by NHL teams and struggle to make Cornell's lineup (eg. Cairns, Tschantz, Song) or barely produce. I agree with you that putting up a lot of points in the USHL is the surest sign of college success. But still far from guaranteed. Dwyer Tschantz put up really good numbers in the USHL, for example. In his case I think he suffered some injuries, but I'm pretty sure he was a healthy scratch a lot too.

The Donaldson situation seems particularly aberrational. Seventh in the BCHL in points/4th in goals, but can't crack the lineup as a sophomore. Did he plateau once he got to college? Is he unreliable on defense? Does Cornell have a glut of left shot forwards? Looking purely at the junior hockey numbers of the forwards in last year's freshman class, it would have been impossible to tell that Bancroft (insane numbers in the OJHL, which is weaker than the BCHL) would be the best performer, then DeSantis (very good numbers in the USHL), then Wallace (good numbers in the USHL), then Donaldson (fantastic numbers in the BCHL). Obviously, hockey (and especially Cornell Hockey) is way more than just offensive numbers—maybe that's the point.

One thing notable about all of this is that Donaldson and Keopple and the other guys not seeing the ice haven't entered the transfer portal. At other programs, players like them would have bolted  the minute the season ended (or sooner). It says a lot about how Schafer runs the team that these guys are sticking with it.

It says a lot about the players too.  Think of a second string wrestler who is essentially the practice partner for a first stringer.  John Irving, the author, talks about not being able to complete 4 years at Pitt (I think it was Pitt) as a practice partner.  And he thinks those that can do that have character that many do not.

I think there is a sense of accomplishment for a player at just getting to a certain level.  If you have put in the work and effort to make it to playing in prep school, or in college, or at Cornell, how much more is there?  That's not to say these kids dont want to play or care, but to many of them, academics may be the more important part of this picture (and should be).  They aren't going to the NHL, they play varsity hockey at Cornell, and maybe they dont get into as many games as they'd like.  Just being part of that team, at that level, where you all consider every guy just as important as the next, and going to a great school - who can blame a kid for not wanting to transfer to Union or Clarkson or even Yale or Brown?  At some point it is not just the single-minded purposeness of climbing the hockey ladder, it's also about your life experience and path.

I agree with all this stuff. Kudos to the coaching staff for recruiting this type of player, emphasizing the degree, and getting the players to buy in. The players themselves I'm certain are making a smart and rational decision about their future by sticking with Cornell even given a lack of ice time. But the vast majority of college hockey players would not make the same choice.

Quote from: marty

Quote from: BearLover

Quote from: PghasMy understanding is that Wishart is headed to play at  Middlebury.

Such a difficult thing to predict who will develop and how.  Guys who lit it up in juniors sometimes get to college and are a little fried and maybe don't push as much as they once did.  Or maybe they hit a ceiling while other kids really do not.  I have a son who is a good player and what they tell you is that as you move up you have to improve and dominate at every level that you reach.  That's hard to do! I think its safe to say that the USHL is largely D1 commits and that provides the highest level of competition for players to develop so that's probably the best place to play if you're a D1 commit.  So expect a kid like Charlie Major to come in and contribute immediately a la Ryan Walsh.  Sean Donaldson dominated the BCHL which is different.  Jacob Kraft didnt dominate but put up great numbers for Cedar Rapids in the USHL.  DeGiulian was drafted by the Lincoln Stars and my understanding is he will play juniors for a least a year.

As my son's coach put it this year, you're not playing college hockey until you're on the ice playing college hockey!

Well said. I am not involved with junior hockey, but from following recruiting, college success is certainly difficult to predict. We've even seen players be drafted by NHL teams and struggle to make Cornell's lineup (eg. Cairns, Tschantz, Song) or barely produce. I agree with you that putting up a lot of points in the USHL is the surest sign of college success. But still far from guaranteed. Dwyer Tschantz put up really good numbers in the USHL, for example. In his case I think he suffered some injuries, but I'm pretty sure he was a healthy scratch a lot too.

The Donaldson situation seems particularly aberrational. Seventh in the BCHL in points/4th in goals, but can't crack the lineup as a sophomore. Did he plateau once he got to college? Is he unreliable on defense? Does Cornell have a glut of left shot forwards? Looking purely at the junior hockey numbers of the forwards in last year's freshman class, it would have been impossible to tell that Bancroft (insane numbers in the OJHL, which is weaker than the BCHL) would be the best performer, then DeSantis (very good numbers in the USHL), then Wallace (good numbers in the USHL), then Donaldson (fantastic numbers in the BCHL). Obviously, hockey (and especially Cornell Hockey) is way more than just offensive numbers—maybe that's the point.

One thing notable about all of this is that Donaldson and Keopple and the other guys not seeing the ice haven't entered the transfer portal. At other programs, players like them would have bolted  the minute the season ended (or sooner). It says a lot about how Schafer runs the team that these guys are sticking with it.

It says a lot about the players too.  Think of a second string wrestler who is essentially the practice partner for a first stringer.  John Irving, the author, talks about not being able to complete 4 years at Pitt (I think it was Pitt) as a practice partner.  And he thinks those that can do that have character that many do not.

"it takes more skill than I can tell
To play the second fiddle well"
-Charles Spurgeon

I don't know about skill, but certainly your devotion, focus, and persistence have to be off the charts.

I also think there's a great sense of accomplishment working one's way off the bench and onto the ice. I'd like to think everyone that Schafer recruits has this ethos that the journey is the destination.

Quote from: SwampyI also think there's a great sense of accomplishment working one's way off the bench and onto the ice. I'd like to think everyone that Schafer recruits has this ethos that the journey is the destination.

i also think there's some self-awareness that if you can't earn your way into the starting lineup in college you may not be the next jonathan quick and you adjust your expectations.

Chase Pirtle is one of the 3 finalists for BCHL rookie of the year.

Quote from: martyIt says a lot about the players too.  Think of a second string wrestler who is essentially the practice partner for a first stringer.  John Irving, the author, talks about not being able to complete 4 years at Pitt (I think it was Pitt) as a practice partner.  And he thinks those that can do that have character that many do not.

It takes more skill than I can tell
to play the second fiddle well.
-Charles Spurgeon

I'm not so sure about skill, but certainly your dedication and self-motivation have to be off the charts.

The NHL's Central Scouting Service's final ranking was released yesterday. Gio Diguilian came in as the 124th ranked North American skater, up from 153 in the mid-term ranking. Unless I missed anyone he looks like the only Cornell recruit or player in the rankings.

Hard to believe there are 225 better players of his age than Robertson

Robertson will be 20 this September.  To be eligible for the '24 draft you have to be under 20 on 12/31/24

Ah, ok.  Folks have been talking about him as if he still had a draft year.

Quote from: arugulaAh, ok.  Folks have been talking about him as if he still had a draft year.

I think he is typically mentioned as a blue chip free agent.

Quote from: Trotsky

Quote from: arugulaAh, ok.  Folks have been talking about him as if he still had a draft year.

I think he is typically mentioned as a blue chip free agent.

The conversation here has largely sprung from an unknown past comment that he had another year of draft eligibility. I, for one, had been assuming that he was draft eligible based on that comment, subsequent conversation and my own customary lack of interest in researching something that I was satisfied someone else had gotten right.

Quote from: randyrangerRobertson will be 20 this September.  To be eligible for the '24 draft you have to be under 20 on 12/31/24

Says here
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2024_NHL_Entry_Draft#:~:text=Ice%20hockey%20players%20born%20between,the%202024%20NHL%20Entry%20Draft.
"Ice hockey players born between January 1, 2004, and September 15, 2006, are eligible for selection in the 2024 NHL Entry Draft."

Robertson was born September 18, 2004, so would be eligible. The 2023 draft is the only draft he has been eligible for so far (until this year's).

So I return to my prior comment: hard to believe there are 250 skaters better than Robertson.

Recruit Chase Pirtle was named BCHL rookie of the year.

getting a sense based on what's out there in the metaverse that Gio DeGiulian may be coming next year and not playing juniors at all.  We could probably use the scoring if he's ready.

Quote from: Pghasgetting a sense based on what's out there in the metaverse that Gio DeGiulian may be coming next year and not playing juniors at all.  We could probably use the scoring if he's ready.

That would surprise me given that Seger is our only known loss up front and we already have a few forwards scheduled to arrive in the fall.

Quote from: scoop85

Quote from: Pghasgetting a sense based on what's out there in the metaverse that Gio DeGiulian may be coming next year and not playing juniors at all.  We could probably use the scoring if he's ready.

That would surprise me given that Seger is our only known loss up front and we already have a few forwards scheduled to arrive in the fall.

you could be right, I had from a very good source he was playing juniors but there's just stuff out there to the contrary.  who is already coming?

Quote from: Pghas

Quote from: scoop85

Quote from: Pghasgetting a sense based on what's out there in the metaverse that Gio DeGiulian may be coming next year and not playing juniors at all.  We could probably use the scoring if he's ready.

That would surprise me given that Seger is our only known loss up front and we already have a few forwards scheduled to arrive in the fall.

you could be right, I had from a very good source he was playing juniors but there's just stuff out there to the contrary.  who is already coming?

I think at forward Parker Murray and Charlie Majog are pretty much a certainty for the fall. Possibly Aiden Long too. Hard to see bringing in much more than that given the existing log-jam. FWIW Heisenberg lists only Major and Murray as coming this year at forward, and the only defenseman he has coming in is Nick Wolfenberg. Heisenberg also shows only Erick Roest coming in at goal, with Justin Katz seemingly coming in 2025 (ironically, Katz and Roest are born 2 days apart).

I would like to see BCHL rookie of the year Chase Pirtle come this year.

Quote from: CASI would like to see BCHL rookie of the year Chase Pirtle come this year.

I know he was drafted in the USHL draft, so perhaps he'll spend a year there before heading to Cornell. I know he's talented, but he may be better off getting top line minutes in juniors than trying to fight for ice time with us.

Elite Prospects has Giovanni DiGiulian coming to Cornell this Fall (https://www.eliteprospects.com/player/884325/giovanni-digiulian).

Moving over from the older thread, it would be interesting to note our most-hyped incoming players.  I'm not privy to that information, so I have no insight. It's also easy to be polluted by the actual results of careers once here.

I do recall Riley Nash as having a "thank god he chose us!" presence in fans' minds before he entered.  

I seem to recall Ryan Hughes and Doug Murray being heralded, and maybe the McRae brothers.  But it's just not a world I interact with.  There are people here with more access though, if they care to share stories or cases both of those who came and those who slipped away.

Quote from: TrotskyMoving over from the older thread, it would be interesting to note our most-hyped incoming players.  I'm not privy to that information, so I have no insight. It's also easy to be polluted by the actual results of careers once here.

I do recall Riley Nash as having a "thank god he chose us!" presence in fans' minds before he entered.  

I seem to recall Ryan Hughes and Doug Murray being heralded, and maybe the McRae brothers.  But it's just not a world I interact with.  There are people here with more access though, if they care to share stories or cases both of those who came and those who slipped away.

There are a few posters here who seem to have kids playing high-level youth hockey who have offered some insight, but outside of these cases I think most of us are just going off of the same publicly available sources.

If anyone is interested in trying to evaluate prospects as a layperson (like me), I can offer the following suggestions:
—The most up-to-date list of commits (for all teams) is Chris Heisenberg's spreadsheet.
—to assess a given committed player, look up their stats on a website like Elite Prospects.
—Evaluating stats can be tricky. First of all, if a player is still in prep school or on a U18/U16 team, it's difficult to evaluate them unless there is a clear point of comparison, such as perhaps a past recruit from the same program (eg. Cornell has had so many players from St. Andrews at this point that we can compare their prep school stats to each other), or another player on their team who is committed to a peer school (eg. a teammate is committed to Harvard).
—Once a player is already in juniors, their stats become easier to evaluate. The best league is the USHL. Then the BCHL. Then probably the AJHL, NAHL, OJHL, and CCHL, in some order. In the USHL, if a forward has a point per game, that is elite. In the BCHL, a bit more than a point per game is elite. A defenseman who averages 2/3 of a point per game in the USHL is really good. Of course, this is all contextual. Some players end up on high scoring teams, some don't.
—I'm not sure if league matters as much for goalies. Goalies are hard to evaluate in general. Still, a .920 save percentage is really good. Particularly in the USHL, that would put him at the top of the league. Again, context matters; the defense surrounding the goalie could be awful, for example.
—All of the above can be viewed as a bit of a sliding scale based on age. For example, an 18-year-old putting up great junior numbers is more impressive than a 20-year-old doing that.
—Obviously, internet stats only go so far. There are many parts to a good hockey player beyond scoring. But there is definitely a correlation between numbers and college success, particularly the better the league you go (i.e. the BCHL and especially the USHL).
—Maybe the best publicly available source for evaluating prospects is the NHL Central Scouting Rankings, which is based on the opinions of real scouts who have actually watched the recruits play. If a player shows up in the rankings, they're usually good. If a player ends up getting drafted, which is usually the case for a player in the top 100 of the rankings, high probability they're good, potentially very good.
—However, the rankings cover only draft-eligible players (ages 18-20), so they miss players who are too young or have aged out. Moreover, it is widely known that the rankings have a blind spot towards "overagers." For example, last year Ryan Walsh was unranked but got drafted, and this year Ben Robertson is unranked.

Quote from: BearLover

Quote from: TrotskyMoving over from the older thread, it would be interesting to note our most-hyped incoming players.  I'm not privy to that information, so I have no insight. It's also easy to be polluted by the actual results of careers once here.

I do recall Riley Nash as having a "thank god he chose us!" presence in fans' minds before he entered.  

I seem to recall Ryan Hughes and Doug Murray being heralded, and maybe the McRae brothers.  But it's just not a world I interact with.  There are people here with more access though, if they care to share stories or cases both of those who came and those who slipped away.

There are a few posters here who seem to have kids playing high-level youth hockey who have offered some insight, but outside of these cases I think most of us are just going off of the same publicly available sources.

If anyone is interested in trying to evaluate prospects as a layperson (like me), I can offer the following suggestions:
—The most up-to-date list of commits (for all teams) is Chris Heisenberg's spreadsheet.
—to assess a given committed player, look up their stats on a website like Elite Prospects.
—Evaluating stats can be tricky. First of all, if a player is still in prep school or on a U18/U16 team, it's difficult to evaluate them unless there is a clear point of comparison, such as perhaps a past recruit from the same program (eg. Cornell has had so many players from St. Andrews at this point that we can compare their prep school stats to each other), or another player on their team who is committed to a peer school (eg. a teammate is committed to Harvard).
—Once a player is already in juniors, their stats become easier to evaluate. The best league is the USHL. Then the BCHL. Then probably the AJHL, NAHL, OJHL, and CCHL, in some order. In the USHL, if a forward has a point per game, that is elite. In the BCHL, a bit more than a point per game is elite. A defenseman who averages 2/3 of a point per game in the USHL is really good. Of course, this is all contextual. Some players end up on high scoring teams, some don't.
—I'm not sure if league matters as much for goalies. Goalies are hard to evaluate in general. Still, a .920 save percentage is really good. Particularly in the USHL, that would put him at the top of the league. Again, context matters; the defense surrounding the goalie could be awful, for example.
—All of the above can be viewed as a bit of a sliding scale based on age. For example, an 18-year-old putting up great junior numbers is more impressive than a 20-year-old doing that.
—Obviously, internet stats only go so far. There are many parts to a good hockey player beyond scoring. But there is definitely a correlation between numbers and college success, particularly the better the league you go (i.e. the BCHL and especially the USHL).
—Maybe the best publicly available source for evaluating prospects is the NHL Central Scouting Rankings, which is based on the opinions of real scouts who have actually watched the recruits play. If a player shows up in the rankings, they're usually good. If a player ends up getting drafted, which is usually the case for a player in the top 100 of the rankings, high probability they're good, potentially very good.
—However, the rankings cover only draft-eligible players (ages 18-20), so they miss players who are too young or have aged out. Moreover, it is widely known that the rankings have a blind spot towards "overagers." For example, last year Ryan Walsh was unranked but got drafted, and this year Ben Robertson is unranked.

Thanks, BearLover. This is very helpful. According to Elite Propsects, Central Scouting lists DiGiulian as #124.

For comparison, Chase Pirtle, who's coming in 2025, was the BCHL ROY and scored 52 points in 54 games this year. But even though he's only 19 now, he doesn't seem to be ranked by NHL Central Scouting.

Might as well post it here.   Ithaca Voice (https://ithacavoice.org/2024/06/semi-pro-hockey-team-expanding-to-lansing-in-2024/) picks up press release announcing that Ithaca is going to share a USPHL team, The Elmira Impact, with Elmira.  They call it a semi-pro team, but later emphasize that the players don't get paid so they can retain their amateur status.  Ithaca games will be at The Rink in Lansing.

The rubber meets the road in the NHL draft (https://www.tbrw.info/?/players/cornell_NHL_Draft.html).

Taking the round, to try to compensate for the larger pool of players by relating it to the larger number of teams:


Rd 1 (2) Pokulok, Nash
Rd 2 (8) Nieuwendyk, Manderville, Ratushny, Hughes, Belzile, Pelletier, LeNeveu, Sawada
Rd 3 (10) Dryden, Lowe, O'Byrne, Hynes, Starrett, Cairns, Stienburg, Ertel, Fegaras, Castagna

Quote from: TrotskyThe rubber meets the road in the NHL draft (https://www.tbrw.info/?/players/cornell_NHL_Draft.html).

Taking the round, to try to compensate for the larger pool of players by relating it to the larger number of teams:


Rd 1 (2) Pokulok, Nash
Rd 2 (8) Nieuwendyk, Manderville, Ratushny, Hughes, Belzile, Pelletier, LeNeveu, Sawada
Rd 3 (10) Dryden, Lowe, O'Byrne, Hynes, Starrett, Cairns, Stienburg, Ertel, Fegaras, Castagna

Pokuluk and LeNeveu were drafted after their freshman years. Excluding Riley, whose brother was already on his way to Cornell, only one player (Samara) in 30 years of Schafer was drafted in the first or second round by the time he showed up on campus.

Quote from: David HardingMight as well post it here.   Ithaca Voice (https://ithacavoice.org/2024/06/semi-pro-hockey-team-expanding-to-lansing-in-2024/) picks up press release announcing that Ithaca is going to share a USPHL team, The Elmira Impact, with Elmira.  They call it a semi-pro team, but later emphasize that the players don't get paid so they can retain their amateur status.  Ithaca games will be at The Rink in Lansing.

The quote about amateur status actually says something about to become anachronistic:

Quote from: Ithaca VoicePlayers in the USPHL are not compensated, though Kolpien said they are basically working under a full-time hockey schedule. In part, Kolpien said this is because players would lose their amateur eligibility if they accepted a players' salary, which would prevent them from playing in any NCAA program after their time with the Impact. [emphasis added]

While I've been following discussions about the NC$$ proposing to start paying college athletes salaries, I haven't seen this aspect of it discussed. If the NC$$ no longer refrains from paying its "student" athletes to maintain the amateur facade, then what about programs that feed the NCAA? Besides high school & prep sports, there's Pop Warner for football, AAU for basketball, USHL/BCHL/ ... USPHL for hockey, etc.

Quote from: TrotskyThe rubber meets the road in the NHL draft (https://www.tbrw.info/?/players/cornell_NHL_Draft.html).

Taking the round, to try to compensate for the larger pool of players by relating it to the larger number of teams:


Rd 1 (2) Pokulok, Nash
Rd 2 (8) Nieuwendyk, Manderville, Ratushny, Hughes, Belzile, Pelletier, LeNeveu, Sawada
Rd 3 (10) Dryden, Lowe, O'Byrne, Hynes, Starrett, Cairns, Stienburg, Ertel, Fegaras, Castagna

Morgan Barron?

Quote from: Swampy

Quote from: David HardingMight as well post it here.   Ithaca Voice (https://ithacavoice.org/2024/06/semi-pro-hockey-team-expanding-to-lansing-in-2024/) picks up press release announcing that Ithaca is going to share a USPHL team, The Elmira Impact, with Elmira.  They call it a semi-pro team, but later emphasize that the players don't get paid so they can retain their amateur status.  Ithaca games will be at The Rink in Lansing.

The quote about amateur status actually says something about to become anachronistic:

Quote from: Ithaca VoicePlayers in the USPHL are not compensated, though Kolpien said they are basically working under a full-time hockey schedule. In part, Kolpien said this is because players would lose their amateur eligibility if they accepted a players' salary, which would prevent them from playing in any NCAA program after their time with the Impact. [emphasis added]

While I've been following discussions about the NC$$ proposing to start paying college athletes salaries, I haven't seen this aspect of it discussed. If the NC$$ no longer refrains from paying its "student" athletes to maintain the amateur facade, then what about programs that feed the NCAA? Besides high school & prep sports, there's Pop Warner for football, AAU for basketball, USHL/BCHL/ ... USPHL for hockey, etc.

How about the level above what used to be Junior B from Canada? And for good measure, why couldn't someone play in the AHL for a year or two and then matriculate at Q for Pecknold's "boys?

Quote from: marty

Quote from: TrotskyThe rubber meets the road in the NHL draft (https://www.tbrw.info/?/players/cornell_NHL_Draft.html).

Taking the round, to try to compensate for the larger pool of players by relating it to the larger number of teams:


Rd 1 (2) Pokulok, Nash
Rd 2 (8) Nieuwendyk, Manderville, Ratushny, Hughes, Belzile, Pelletier, LeNeveu, Sawada
Rd 3 (10) Dryden, Lowe, O'Byrne, Hynes, Starrett, Cairns, Stienburg, Ertel, Fegaras, Castagna

Morgan Barron?

Sixth round pick.

Quote from: BearLover

Quote from: marty

Quote from: TrotskyThe rubber meets the road in the NHL draft (https://www.tbrw.info/?/players/cornell_NHL_Draft.html).

Taking the round, to try to compensate for the larger pool of players by relating it to the larger number of teams:


Rd 1 (2) Pokulok, Nash
Rd 2 (8) Nieuwendyk, Manderville, Ratushny, Hughes, Belzile, Pelletier, LeNeveu, Sawada
Rd 3 (10) Dryden, Lowe, O'Byrne, Hynes, Starrett, Cairns, Stienburg, Ertel, Fegaras, Castagna

Morgan Barron?

Sixth round pick.

Some of these examples provide what may be a very attractive aspect of Cornell hockey: its track record of developing successful pro players.

Quote from: TrotskyElite Prospects has Giovanni DiGiulian coming to Cornell this Fall (https://www.eliteprospects.com/player/884325/giovanni-digiulian).

I might have known this before but forgotten.

He's a coaches kid. His father was an assistant coach at UVM for 9 years, then Middlebury for 2, and HC for the last 12 at D2 St. Michael's.

There was discussion earlier about the homegrown kids getting away, and our not landing the offspring of he guys that went pro.  But landing a coach's kid seems like a but of a coup.

After much speculation, it's official (https://cornellbigred.com/news/2024/6/21/mens-ice-hockey-2024-25-newcomers-release.aspx). Four freshmen are entering the program this fall.

Murray's dad was an excellent NHLer. Hopefully the apple doesn't fall far.  Major's uncle was my classmate and nice contributor for four years.  Sounds like a good class. Plugs a goalie hole for the future. Obviously didn't need a ton with all the returnees.

Quote from: dbilmesAfter much speculation, it's official (https://cornellbigred.com/news/2024/6/21/mens-ice-hockey-2024-25-newcomers-release.aspx). Four freshmen are entering the program this fall.

"Katz! Dogs!" chant, anyone?

Quote from: arugulaMurray's dad was an excellent NHLer. Hopefully the apple doesn't fall far.  Major's uncle was my classmate and nice contributor for four years.  Sounds like a good class. Plugs a goalie hole for the future. Obviously didn't need a ton with all the returnees.

Major put up great numbers in the USHL and should be able to contribute from day 1. Wolfenberg is hard to judge because he missed almost all of last year with an injury. Maybe he can fight for a spot as the 7th D. The top 6 spots look pretty locked right now (barring injury, of course). Murray seems to have raw potential given his size and genes, but he will already be 21 by the time the season starts, so it's hard to say how much more room he has to grow (as a hockey player—clearly not much more room to grow size-wise). Katz will fight with Keopple for the backup position this year and then hopefully fight with Keopple and Roest for the starting job the following year.

Should be a very good team this year. We've lost our best player, but everyone else will be returning another year older. And Major should contribute from the get-go.

Quote from: Beeeej

Quote from: dbilmesAfter much speculation, it's official (https://cornellbigred.com/news/2024/6/21/mens-ice-hockey-2024-25-newcomers-release.aspx). Four freshmen are entering the program this fall.

"Katz! Dogs!" chant, anyone?

Maybe "Katz! Mice!" instead?

Pretty much everyone assumed we'd have a small class coming in, so no surprise there. I didn't expect DiGiulian to be in this class given how few openings we have on the roster. I expected to see Roest rather than Katz to be in the incoming class, but not shocked it was the other way around.

Quote from: Will

Quote from: Beeeej

Quote from: dbilmesAfter much speculation, it's official (https://cornellbigred.com/news/2024/6/21/mens-ice-hockey-2024-25-newcomers-release.aspx). Four freshmen are entering the program this fall.

"Katz! Dogs!" chant, anyone?

Maybe "Katz! Mice!" instead?

Well, at least it won't be hard to come up with a song (https://youtu.be/vrvFx9-qTHI?feature=shared) for him.

Quote from: Will

Quote from: Beeeej

Quote from: dbilmesAfter much speculation, it's official (https://cornellbigred.com/news/2024/6/21/mens-ice-hockey-2024-25-newcomers-release.aspx). Four freshmen are entering the program this fall.

"Katz! Dogs!" chant, anyone?

Maybe "Katz! Mice!" instead?

Probably won't come up much. Shane's gonna be the everyday goalie; we got the new guy Justin Katz.

Quote from: Swampy

Quote from: Will

Quote from: Beeeej

Quote from: dbilmesAfter much speculation, it's official (https://cornellbigred.com/news/2024/6/21/mens-ice-hockey-2024-25-newcomers-release.aspx). Four freshmen are entering the program this fall.

"Katz! Dogs!" chant, anyone?

Maybe "Katz! Mice!" instead?

Well, at least it won't be hard to come up with a song (https://youtu.be/vrvFx9-qTHI?feature=shared) for him.

Or this (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BlT_M6xiWdE)

How about "Katz!  Pussies!" for the cheer.

Quote from: Jeff Hopkins '82How about "Katz!  Pussies!" for the cheer.

Spoken like an 82.  B-]

Quote from: Jeff Hopkins '82

Quote from: Swampy

Quote from: Will

Quote from: Beeeej

Quote from: dbilmesAfter much speculation, it's official (https://cornellbigred.com/news/2024/6/21/mens-ice-hockey-2024-25-newcomers-release.aspx). Four freshmen are entering the program this fall.

"Katz! Dogs!" chant, anyone?

Maybe "Katz! Mice!" instead?

Well, at least it won't be hard to come up with a song (https://youtu.be/vrvFx9-qTHI?feature=shared) for him.

Or this (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BlT_M6xiWdE)

How about "Katz!  Pussies!" for the cheer.

You trying to get Mike to yell at the crowd one more time for the road?

You always play the oldies on a final tour.

Quote from: Trotsky

Quote from: Jeff Hopkins '82How about "Katz!  Pussies!" for the cheer.

Spoken like an 82.  B-]

Ahhh, get off my lawn!

The NHL draft begins Friday. I am going to give arbitrary odds to the following Cornell players/recruits getting drafted:
DiGiulian 50%
Robertson 33%
Major 15%
Arsenault 10%
Pirtle 10%

Most likely outcome: one Cornellian drafted

Quote from: BearLoverThe NHL draft begins Friday. I am going to give arbitrary odds to the following Cornell players/recruits getting drafted:
DiGiulian 50%
Robertson 33%
Major 15%
Arsenault 10%
Pirtle 10%

Most likely outcome: one Cornellian drafted

Ok.  I lost a tooth playing a pickup game and found a Bitcoin under my pillow.  So who's taking the action on this?

I don't know why Robertson isn't a sure thing for the draft.  He has the skills, vision, and presence.  There is no downside.

Quote from: BearLoverThe NHL draft begins Friday. I am going to give arbitrary odds to the following Cornell players/recruits getting drafted:
DiGiulian 50%
Robertson 33%
Major 15%
Arsenault 10%
Pirtle 10%

Most likely outcome: one Cornellian drafted

In Corey Pronman's 7 round mock draft in the Athletic a few days ago, Major was the only Cornell player selected, as the very last pick in the mock.

Quote from: TrotskyI don't know why Robertson isn't a sure thing for the draft.  He has the skills, vision, and presence.  There is no downside.

In my exchange with Pronman, he said he liked Robertson but that he wasn't dynamic enough. Whatever that means.

Also said he lacked competitiveness.   Hmmm

Quote from: arugulaAlso said he lacked competitiveness.   Hmmm

FFS (https://www.google.com/search?q=uglygirlfirned+shows+laxck+of+confidence&rlz=1C1OPNX_enUS1032US1032&oq=uglygirlfirned+shows+laxck+of+confidence&gs_lcrp=EgZjaHJvbWUyCQgAEEUYORigATIHCAEQIRigATIHCAIQIRigAdIBCDc1MTdqMGo3qAIIsAIB&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8#fpstate=ive&vld=cid:24418abf,vid:6naO8n6HsqE,st:0).

Quote from: TrotskyI don't know why Robertson isn't a sure thing for the draft.  He has the skills, vision, and presence.  There is no downside.

I'm no NHL scout but the downside might be his ability to defend larger NHL players. And whether his offensive skills are truly elite enough to translate to the NHL level.

Quote from: arugula

Quote from: TrotskyI don't know why Robertson isn't a sure thing for the draft.  He has the skills, vision, and presence.  There is no downside.

In my exchange with Pronman, he said he liked Robertson but that he wasn't dynamic enough. Whatever that means.

I think your exchange was with Wheeler

Correct.

Zero Cornell recruits or current players chosen in the draft. As for the rest of the ECAC, it looks like 3 from Harvard, 2 from Clarkson, and 1 from Quinnipiac were taken.

https://www.collegehockeynews.com/news/drafttracker.php

With Clarkson having 7 draft picks on last year's team, & 2 recruits selected today, Casey appears to be a very good recruiter

It might be his assistant.  I think all staffs are different.

New commit!!!
According to Chris Heisenberg Cornell picked up Maddex Marmulak from Nova Scotia.  He is a right shot forward that can play center or right wing and was the league MVP of the Nova Scotia U18 Major Hockey League.  According to Heisenberg he will be coming to CU in either 2026 or '27.  Not sure where he will be playing next season.

Quote from: Redpucks1!New commit!!!
According to Chris Heisenberg Cornell picked up Maddex Marmulak from Nova Scotia.  He is a right shot forward that can play center or right wing and was the league MVP of the Nova Scotia U18 Major Hockey League.  According to Heisenberg he will be coming to CU in either 2026 or '27.  Not sure where he will be playing next season.

Might be playing in Cedar Rapids next season:
https://www.instagram.com/p/C6rk3XPvhTH/?igsh=MWJmMXRjcThkeWFvcg==

USHL - that would be great.  Thanks Phil!

Probably a coincidence, but with Casey back a Quebec > BCHL prospect seems about right.

http://bit.ly/3zwdaPL

One of my favorite days of the year is August 1st - the first day of college hockey recruit commitments.  This year it will be 2008's committing.
A year ago I had 3 players in mind for Cornell; William Moore/Ithaca connection, Cooper Dennis/Ithaca connection and Aiden Lane/St. Andrews College hockey.  I really thought at least one of them would end up at Cornell, but all three ended up being a swing and a miss.  (Moore - BC / Dennis - Michigan / Lane - Harvard).

This year there is only one player that is pretty certain to head to Ithaca in the future.  Nolan Long, St. Andrews College, is the brother of current Cornell commit Aiden Long.  Seems like a fair bet that he would have CU at the top of his list.

The others I would be interested in is just wishful thinking with the exception of the goalie on the list who is attending St. Andrews College.
     1.  Cameron Chartrand - Quebec native, which Casey seems to get a fair number of players from the province.  He's a defenseman that played for the BK Selects last season.  Will play for Dubuque in the USHL this season and is very highly regarded. Canada U17 Development Camp invitee.
     2.  Mateo Beites - Goalie/St. Andrews College.  Recently invited to the U17 Canada Camp.
     3.  Jonathan Morello - Center / Very highly regarded Clarkson commit.  A 2024 Boston draft pick, he had a real solid development camp with the Bruins.  Would love it if he committed to Clarkson based on Casey being the coach and decided to switch his commitment to Cornell but, again, probably a long shot.

Quote from: Redpucks1!One of my favorite days of the year is August 1st - the first day of college hockey recruit commitments.  This year it will be 2008's committing.
A year ago I had 3 players in mind for Cornell; William Moore/Ithaca connection, Cooper Dennis/Ithaca connection and Aiden Lane/St. Andrews College hockey.  I really thought at least one of them would end up at Cornell, but all three ended up being a swing and a miss.  (Moore - BC / Dennis - Michigan / Lane - Harvard).

This year there is only one player that is pretty certain to head to Ithaca in the future.  Nolan Long, St. Andrews College, is the brother of current Cornell commit Aiden Long.  Seems like a fair bet that he would have CU at the top of his list.

The others I would be interested in is just wishful thinking with the exception of the goalie on the list who is attending St. Andrews College.
     1.  Cameron Chartrand - Quebec native, which Casey seems to get a fair number of players from the province.  He's a defenseman that played for the BK Selects last season.  Will play for Dubuque in the USHL this season and is very highly regarded. Canada U17 Development Camp invitee.
     2.  Mateo Beites - Goalie/St. Andrews College.  Recently invited to the U17 Canada Camp.
     3.  Jonathan Morello - Center / Very highly regarded Clarkson commit.  A 2024 Boston draft pick, he had a real solid development camp with the Bruins.  Would love it if he committed to Clarkson based on Casey being the coach and decided to switch his commitment to Cornell but, again, probably a long shot.

Busy first day...Chartrand to BC. Big day for BK Selects, Shattuck's, and (of course) the USNDPT. The "biggest winner" has to be Penn State. Alexander Karmanov (Belarus U18), either 6'11" or 7' (depending on site) and 250-pound, 16yo d-man. Not only have I gotten old: I've gotten tiny as well.

Cornell picks up a commit from Jack Broderick, Westchester Express U16. 95-74-103-177. Tri-City (USHL) pick in the futures draft.

Quote from: PghasMy understanding is that Wishart is headed to play at  Middlebury.

Such a difficult thing to predict who will develop and how.  Guys who lit it up in juniors sometimes get to college and are a little fried and maybe don't push as much as they once did.  Or maybe they hit a ceiling while other kids really do not.  I have a son who is a good player and what they tell you is that as you move up you have to improve and dominate at every level that you reach.  That's hard to do! I think its safe to say that the USHL is largely D1 commits and that provides the highest level of competition for players to develop so that's probably the best place to play if you're a D1 commit.  So expect a kid like Charlie Major to come in and contribute immediately a la Ryan Walsh.  Sean Donaldson dominated the BCHL which is different.  Jacob Kraft didnt dominate but put up great numbers for Cedar Rapids in the USHL.  DeGiulian was drafted by the Lincoln Stars and my understanding is he will play juniors for a least a year.

As my son's coach put it this year, you're not playing college hockey until you're on the ice playing college hockey!

My son played with Charlie Major a couple of seasons ago (Bishop Kearney U18 AAA).  My kid played defense and he used to laugh that he got a lot of assists just passing the puck to Charlie.  Ryan Conmy (UNH, 31 points as a freshman last year) was also on the team.  He and Charlie were the offensive go-to guys, it will be great to see Charlie play for Cornell this season, wishing him the best!

By the way, we absolutely annihilated St. Andrew's College that season........

Wow Ratushny - your son must be a heckuva player if he played for BK!  Where is he playing now?
(By the way - like your user name.  Ratushny is one of my all time favorite Cornell players!)

He hung up the skates and is skiing/golfing at college now.  Got some interest from St. Lawrence but didn't want to grind it out in juniors for two years.  Honestly, it was a good decision for him.  You have to be 100% dedicated and for some when you start skating at 2 and doing power skating at 4 the interest level wanes.