ELynah Forum

Athletics has posted an explanation over at:

http://cornellbigred.ocsn.com/sports/m-hockey/spec-rel/090403aaa.html

I noticed that if you open the PDF file, there's some additional information in there that is not in the main article.  Such as assembling time on Friday...



Post Edited (09-05-03 13:26)

Hey-

I'm a new student here, and I really want to know how this ticket thing works.  I know you camp out, but after that, I'm lost.  If someone could answer a few of my questions, it'd be great-

1) Where does the campout take place?  In front of Barnes?  In back?
2) How does this number system work?  People walk down the like giving us numbers, then we pay, or what?
3) What's this random number check til 11 PM thing?  We need to stand in line til 11?
4) What are the best seats at Lynah?  I know that section B is the best, but the chances of me getting that are probably slim to none.

An answer to any or all of these questions would be greatly appreciated.  Also, any stories that you might have of your campout experience would rock too.

Does anyone know if they're opening up the Ramin Room on Friday night again, and if the 4:45 thing is actually going to be enforced this year?

[Q]
1) Where does the campout take place? In front of Barnes? In back?
[/Q]
I've been gone a year and correct me if I'm wrong, but Barnes Hall is on Ho Plaza across from WSH and Gannett.  From my recollection, the line is behind the field house (AKA Bartels Hall).

[Q]
2) How does this number system work? People walk down the line giving us numbers, then we pay, or what?
[/Q]
Yeah that's pretty much it.  

[Q]
3) What's this random number check til 11 PM thing? We need to stand in line til 11?
[/Q]
If you really want tickets, standing in line isn't that bad.  Besides it's a good time to get to know the other Faithful.  

[Q]
4) What are the best seats at Lynah? I know that section B is the best, but the chances of me getting that are probably slim to none.
[/Q]
There aren't really any bad seats at Lynah.  (except maybe Section O, if an opposing team brings their own band (Clarkson, Colgate, RPI)).  There aren't any post-blocking obstructions and the glass is relatively new and doesn't contain those horrific dividers that tend to get in your way.  

I had seats in the front row of Section B in 01-02.  They were quite good, but it was sometimes hard to see the far corner.  So with that said, higher up might be better.  

Stories...hmmm....I think we watched a DVD on someone's laptop.  We had an extension cord plugged into an outlet outside of the field house.  Unfortunately campus safety showed up and told us our cord wasn't rated for "external use", so that ended that party.  The other thing not-so-pleasant thing about that night was the constant threat of rain (it one of those 40 degree nights).  But the Lynah experience was well worth it!



Post Edited (09-05-03 15:29)

Underskill,

A little birdie tells me they'll actually be distributing line numbers on Friday if there's a big enough crowd, like last year. A little birdie also tells me an early line will be acceptable near biotech. You guys better behave :-P.

My gut feeling is that they'll start handing out line numbers sometime Friday night. Imagine if they stuck to what's on paper (line numbers being handed out Saturday morning)... then they'd have to police the line overnight, keep the integrity and order of the line intact, and I'd assume that it'd just be way too overwhelming. (And knowing Cornell... they'd really mess it up too)

They'll start the line numbers Fri. night like last year... that way everyone can get inside the Ramin room, find whatever place to camp out, and then wait it out... it worked last year, so don't fix it...

My only suggestion to make it better would be to start handing out line numbers very soon after the first allowable line is formed... say at like 5:30 - 6 pm, and then start the number checks that night.

No early lines at bio tech or anywhere else.  There will be a conserted effort to disband any large groups that form around Bartels prior to 4:45.

sgt12,

i see from your net-id that you're with CUPD. thanks for the info. i showed up last year early friday morning, and officers and athletics personnell (very politely) asked me to leave and come back at 4, because no lines were permitted to form at all. i came back just before 4pm, and 200 people are waiting by biotech. subsequently, cupd and athletics (to avoid mayhem, i understand) allowed that line to move person-by-person to the official area. so i guess my question is, to what extent will this year's process really differ? as i'm sure you can understand, i don't want to be in a position where i listen to what the people in charge tell me, and then i get taken 200 spots for it.

and how will "stopping groups from disbanding anywhere near bartels before 445" prevent a mad rush at 445 to get to the official area?

i dunno what everyone else thinks, but it would seem to me that you'd have things alot safer if you let people gradually show. and that way, if someone wants to miss class, they're responsible adults and if they want to wait and extra hour or day, i don't see the harm.

any thoughts?

I'd agree with you, but the issue seems to hinge on the word "responsible". Groups of 10 people show up on Thursday morning and then members leave throughout the next couple days to go to classes (I talked to several people who did that). If you allow this to happen, how do you differentiate between the people coming back from class and the people joining a line with friends who had never been there before (aka: cutting)?



Post Edited (09-06-03 11:44)

it's easy- nobody leaves.
i wouldn't be against showing up thursday afternoon and staying out another night, if i knew that it would save me the stress of wondering what bizarre turn of events will occur which will cost me a spot, or many.

delta, how reliable is this little birdie? seems like we've got some conflicting information here on the board.

mike

Mike,

Yeah, I agree... but how do you enforce "nobody leaves" - or at least, "if they do, they don't come back". More important, how do you do it all night long without paying several people for 24 hours a day. If you can find a way that won't cost the athletics a good chunk of change, i would agree, but that's the problem. Each year they've said "nobody leaves" and each year people have done it cause they have no way to enforce it. So I say, nobody comes at all is the only reasonable way to go. I hope they have the balls to enforce it this time, but probably not.

Um, pretty reliable I would think. The birdie told me he talked to another birdie who is directly involved (very involved). I guess there could have been crossed wires, misstatements, or lies - I wouldn't mind if that was the case cause I don't want anyone showing up too early due to my above discussion, but we'll see.

-Fred

Mike, the biotech line last year was an attempt to prevent a mad rush at the official line formation time.  If you just had groups wandering around the Bartel's area until 4:45 and then bolting to the front of the line, the result would be chaotic and possibly dangerous.  At least with the biotech line, there was an orderly procession to the front of the line once the official line formed.  I agree it sucked for the people who arrived right at the line time, but the blame for that falls on the administration, who created the procedure, then the people who started the biotech line.  Those of us in the biotech line we merely trying to get some order for when the official line was created.

French, understood...

but, if it was you, planning the whole thing, how would you handle it that would work? I simply don't see a way.

-Fred

I don't know, I'm not proposing a correct way.  I'm just saying people shouldn't criticize the biotech line when it's purpose and result was easing some of the troubles inherent in last year's (and this year's, more or less) procedure.

[Q]I don't know, I'm not proposing a correct way. I'm just saying people shouldn't criticize the biotech line when it's purpose and result was easing some of the troubles inherent in last year's (and this year's, more or less) procedure.[/Q]
I'm just saying people shouldn't criticize the current way if they don't have any idea how to do it better :-}.

It 'eased' the trouble of what to do with people showing up early. It caused trouble however when it came to cutting latter on... rather than a "go to the end of the line" philosophy, you ran the risk of people saying "I've been here for 2 days already, but I had to leave for class"... so it's a trade off of 'a rush at 4:45' versus 'inability to effectively limit cutting all evening long'.

i'd rather wait in line all day friday then get in some mad rush at 4:45.

That's not exactly the point Mike...

The point is would you rather have a rush at 4:45, or would you rather get knocked back 10% in line position between 4:45 and whenever they hand out line numbers (I made a couple counts, I got knocked back from about 500 to over 550 last year from 7 pm to 12 am).



Post Edited (09-06-03 23:27)

If they aren't going to reward slavish loyalty by allowing people to start lining up as early as they like, I think all of the proposed (and implemented) solutions are a joke.  They reward insiders and cheaters, not the most devoted.  They should just do a lottery.

My solution?  (Hey! Where did you go? Keep reading!)  Announce the date of the sale.  Let the fans line up as early as they like.  Let a tent village rise up.  Give numbers to whoever shows up - as soon as they show up.  Allow people to hold up to three additional numbers (to allow people to attend class and rotate nights sleeping on line).  Do random line checks (even if people start lining up a week early) and ding anyone that isn't there when a line check is done.

I am a transfer student so this is my first year at Cornell.  I want season tickets to the hockey games (obviously, I am not the only one).  I have picked up (yes, I am so intuitive!) that this experience can be a rather charged one on this campus.  With that in mind, I am curious to hear from those seasoned-veterans if they could offer some thoughts on what things one should show up with when they start the camping-out process.  Obviously a semi-comfortable chair and a blanket, but what else should I be thinking about?

Thanks to all.  I am preparing myself mentally for the mayhem that will no doubt ensue shortly!

-N-

Well, also the usual stuff you'll need to sleep over - tooth bursh, contact solution if you got contacts.  Bring some of your textbooks, since you'll be sitting around all Saturday, so it couldn't hurt to get some reading done.  Alot of people bring TVs with video games / VCRs / DVDs, so if you and some friends have those that'll also help pass the time.  And if you wanna get some exercise, a football or a frisbee to throw around couldnt hurt.

We go through this every year.  Changes have been made over the last couple of years to try an avoid the meyheim that occurred a few years ago when people literally got trampled and crushed up against the fence behind the crescent.

The current process is the best that I've been involved with in my 15 years on the hill.  It will be as sucsessful as the participants make it.  If people try to circumvent the "spirit" of the process then there will be problems.  If people respect the procedure then there should few if any complaints.

I understand people are passinate about the Big Red Hockey team, and they should be.  Lets just use common sense and good judgement come Friday at 4:45.

I will see you all there - I won't be hard to find.

Sgt. Rich Gourley

We go through this every year. Changes have been made over the last couple of years to try an avoid the meyheim that occurred a few years ago when people literally got trampled and crushed up against the fence behind the crescent.

The current process is the best that I've been involved with in my 15 years on the hill. It will be as sucsessful as the participants make it. If people try to circumvent the "spirit" of the process then there will be problems. If people respect the procedure then there should few if any complaints.

I understand people are passinate about the Big Red Hockey team, and they should be. Lets just use common sense and good judgement come Friday at 4:45.

I will see you all there - I won't be hard to find.

Sgt. Rich Gourley

Any word on when the single ticket games will go on sale??

[Q]Any word on when the single ticket games will go on sale??[/Q]

Oct 15

Personally, I think that the system the Pep Band uses for distributing its tickets is pretty good.  People earn priority points for attending events, with extra weight given non-hockey home games.  That way, the most dedicated fans get tickets (well, it doesn't work out perfectly like that, since we have to balance different instruments, but to a first approximation), but instead of sitting around idly in the Ramin room, the line is replaced by attending other Cornell games, which are at least marginally entertaining.  Plus, it's a great way to get enthusiastic fans to show up to some of the less popular sports.

I don't like that system exactly the way you described it.  Hockey should be kept separate from all other sports, particularly since hockey is the only sport where students are charged.  What I would recommend is that somehow the more hardcore fans of hockey can be rewarded in succeeding years, perhaps with getting the chance to get better seats in succeeding years, although I don't know how to do that without severely changing the campout process.  The only way I've seen to make a reward system work was to give season ticket holders a chance to get Frozen Four tickets this past year (albeit via lottery).

Here's how you could work it. More points for more years you've had season tickets. Extra points for the away games that you've been to and even those can have different weights...like let's say 1 point for going to Harvard (since everybody tries to go there) and maybe 10 points for Princeton (since that's really far away and the Yale/Princeton hike is a pain).

5 points for having gone to lake placid
1 point for hitting a deer on the way up to lp
5 points for going to albany
10 points for the north country trip in the middle of break and the weather conditions are snow snow and some ice in between...

point numbers can be tinkered with. but there are some trips and some experiences that separate out the day to day fans and the crazy people, or I guess y'alls would refer to the crazy people as the hardcore. but, we're all just crazy.

Well, it's one thing to have season tickets and another thing to actually attend the home games.  I knew plenty of people who were in my block of people (I wouldn't call them my friends so much as friends of friends of friends) who bought season tickets last year just for the Harvard game, and that's it.  I didn't see them the rest of the season.  (At least their other tickets went to some real fans, people I would describe as my friends.)  By your system, those facetimers would receive the same amount of points as someone like me, who cheered harder than most others and tried to come up with unique ways to mock the opposing goalies.  That doesn't seem quite fair, does it?

As for only awarding one point for going to the game at Harvard, while it is true that "everybody tries to go there", they're still some of the hardest away game tickets to acquire.  (To be fair, I have a vested interest in changing that point, since the two games at Harvard I've attended make up 40% of my Cornell away games I've seen.  Then again, I still get ten points for that away game at Princeton I've been to! :-D)

Of course, I'd make recommendations that more points be added for regular eLF and USCHO posters. ;-)

Well, one possible way around this "mad bolt" scenario while discouraging people from lining up early would be to pool the people who are there say from 4:44 to 4:46, and assign those first n line numbers by random number selection.  This would hopefully prevent people from rushing the head of the line, knowing that it would not change their chances of getting a higher line number as long as they were there at the "official" start time.  Anyone who shows up from 4:46 and onward would form into a regular FIFO line, whose first number would be n+1.  As far as I can see, this would be a fair way of distributing numbers to those who follow the rules and show up at the correct time, and also eliminate any advantage coming extra early would have.  Any thoughts?

QuoteFrench Rage wrote:

Mike, the biotech line last year was an attempt to prevent a mad rush at the official line formation time.  If you just had groups wandering around the Bartel's area until 4:45 and then bolting to the front of the line, the result would be chaotic and possibly dangerous.  At least with the biotech line, there was an orderly procession to the front of the line once the official line formed.  I agree it sucked for the people who arrived right at the line time, but the blame for that falls on the administration, who created the procedure, then the people who started the biotech line.  Those of us in the biotech line we merely trying to get some order for when the official line was created.

That is perhaps the worst idea I have ever heard.  Besides being a logistical nightmare, it is completely unfair.  People who show up early aren't trying to break the rules, they simply want to make sure that they get the seat they desire.  There is a reason why Section B has the dynamic it does.  It is, for the most part, the people that are crazy about Cornell Hockey and are willing to wait several days to get those seats.  The idea that someone who was there two minutes early gets a better number than someone that was there two days early is ridiculous.  A system such as that would compromise the feverish atmosphere that is Lynah.  

I like the system as it currenly stands.  It is far from perfect, and I myself am uneasy at the idea that I may not be able to get back the seats that I have cherished for the past two seasons, but I just have to hope that the ticket line gods smile down on me.

i agree that the current system works, but I think it can be improved without resorting to random numbers. I'm still very uneasy about the official start time for the line at 4:45 pm... I just have a feeling that there's going to be a crazy mob or an unofficial line that they allow to form a bit before 4:45... hopefully I'll be proved wrong.

I think they should allow people to line up to get line numbers more or less whenever they choose... or just say you can get line numbers x days before you actually start the paying/seat selection process. And then once the line numbers are handed out... start doing random checks from that point on. I know Cornell will never do this because they can't condone missing class, but this is the student's choice to skip class, and frankly I think he/she has that right. And plus most students are responsible enough to borrow class notes from friends or work out some system of having friends hold line numbers while they attend class, etc... we're cornell students, we're smart enough to engineer that kind of system.

I know this is easier said than done, but if Duke can support Krzyzewski-ville... Cornell can support Lynah-ville.

IF they are not going to allow a Schaferville (baaaaaaaaad!) and IF you want to avoid a dangerous mad rush to the door at 4:45 (good), I think allowing a line to start forming at ~4:30 (4:40) and assigning random numbers to anyone already on line by, say 4:50 (I think your time tolerances are a little too tight, Cornell Fan) is an excellent solution.  

Your response, Anthony, fails to appreciate that Cornell doesn't acknowledge two-day waits.  If CUPD really is going to keep breaking up the lines, there is no reason to get there any earlier than they will allow the official line to form.  If they AREN'T going to enforce the "no early lines" rule, then the whole "announcement" is a joke.  The only way to make a bad rule worse is to enforce it haphazardly, thereby encouraging people to break it.

[Q] If they AREN'T going to enforce the "no early lines" rule, then the whole "announcement" is a joke. The only way to make a bad rule worse is to enforce it haphazardly, thereby encouraging people to break it.

 [/Q]  
Sadly this is exactly how Cornell has handled the situation the last few years.

I'll say what I've said the last few years; do it like the "old days". You have an official time and date, which is when the U starts maintaining it. However you let people (we still do think students are people, don't we?) start their own line whenever they want to, and they maintain it themselves.

This idea that you can't allow a line when classes are in session is ridiculous. They don't stop students from eating lunch, do they? You assume that they will make arraingements for someone else to take their place, when they need to.

That system worked well, except that tickets were then sold much later in the year and it was alot colder. When it got to be a line of a couple of cold nights it wasn't too nice. Now and especially this week that's a piece of cake.

All you need is an administration that will let students do it, and not worry about what a lawyer might say about the risk and students who are willing to police the unofficial line. When I had to stay in line we never had an official line. We set up our own rules which were decided upon by the first few people and went from there. I know that someone might say the first people would make the rules to fit themselves, but I doubt it would make a big difference. However you do always have to have someone there to keep a list and tell the rules to the new arrivals.

[Q]Your response, Anthony, fails to appreciate that Cornell doesn't acknowledge two-day waits. If CUPD really is going to keep breaking up the lines, there is no reason to get there any earlier than they will allow the official line to form. If they AREN'T going to enforce the "no early lines" rule, then the whole "announcement" is a joke. The only way to make a bad rule worse is to enforce it haphazardly, thereby encouraging people to break it.[/Q]
Very true... it also makes the assumption that fans who show up 3 days early are necessarily much better fans than those that 'only' show up 1 day early. I think I'm a pretty damn good fan, going to Albany, Buffalo, and garnering 10 points in Judy's system for the N.C. trip last year - 8 hrs from Ct.

Still, I'm not gonna camp out the night before I have to go to classes and/or skip classes to get tickets. Anyone who shows up by 4:45 pm on Friday is a pretty damn good fan and would make a fine section B-er. Showing up 3 days early indicates you're a very good fan, but it also indicates you care a bit less about class attendence and sleep. I think the random thing is a fine idea.

-Fred

[Q]This idea that you can't allow a line when classes are in session is ridiculous. They don't stop students from eating lunch, do they? You assume that they will make arrangements for someone else to take their place, when they need to.[/Q]
Only problem, that allows for massive amounts of cutting if you let people come and go... and unfortunately, that's a definite issue.

[Q]Only problem, that allows for massive amounts of cutting if you let people come and go... and unfortunately, that's a definite issue.[/Q]No you don't allow cutting. As I said you always have to have someone there to tell the rules and they keep a list of names, in order, and tell everyone when line checks will be held, etc.. Believe me, with bright enough students they can figure out a system to work.

[Q]No you don't allow cutting. As I said you always have to have someone there to tell the rules and they keep a list of names, in order, and tell everyone when line checks will be held, etc.. Believe me, with bright enough students they can figure out a system to work.[/Q]

The university was perfectly willing to do just this up until the stampede in '92.  The orderly list of names that I signed the evening before didn't mean a whole lot the next morning when I couldn't take a full breath because of the crush of people.  I'm sure the university views the complaints on the current system as minor compared to what they had to deal with then, and they were lucky it didn't turn out worse.  Sure I would like to see the most faithful of the Faithful rewarded with good seats, but I don't want to see any of them get hurt in the process.

With what the university gets in revenue from hockey, there's no reason why they can't station a couple dozen rent a cops for line monitoring 2-3 days before the sale.  Line people up outside, aggressively check the line, and yank the IDs of cutters until after the sale.  Pretty simple.

How long you are willing to wait in line isn't a perfect proxy for dedication.  But overall I suspect it's a pretty good one.  It seems like a simple economic model - the more you want the tickets the more you are willing to pay (in time) to get them.

The university calendar says that there will be a band playing from 8-10PM in the Ramin room saying they will be joining the ticket line.  Makes me think they will move people inside as soon as they start lining up.  just my 2 cents

Apparently people are already lining up, well before 24 hours of the stated time... security? security??? Bueller?

someone confirm

That crowd will be dispersed before daybreak.

Confirmed. Don't ask me why I'm at work. There are about 15 people there starting an informal list.

Good to hear

I was just over to check out the line.

Cornell Police will be patrolling all night long behind Bartels.  Their night shift starts at 11:00 and they are going to be strict about things.  You will NOT lose your chance to buy tickets if you are asked to leave and you comply.  If you are asked to leave, and/or are asked for your Cornell ID and you don't have it you will be disqualified from buying tickets.

At 3:00 PM tomorrow, the police will disperse any lines that are present.  They would not say about how the period between 3:00 PM and 4:45 PM would be handled.

Currently, the line has moved over to behind Biotech.  The people that got there first do have an informal list with signatures.  The total number of people in line is currently 25.

The current list:

(http://www.people.cornell.edu/pages/jan35/list.jpg)

What is this list?  If I wanna be in section B, when should I get there by.  I was planning on 9 tomorrow morning.  Should I go tonight?

Section B holds 200-something people, so there's certainly no danger yet

If it's not an official line, then it doesn't really matter. Is someone really going to  say "No, you can't stand there in front of me because I signed this piece of paper last night"?

I sense a civil war about to erupt over that piece of paper.

I would hope the students at large would respect the paper.  However, that paper won't prevent a select few @$$hole frat boys from cutting in line and getting better numbers when they're finally given out.

Right now, I'm just hoping me and my group of 30+ 'friends' can at least break into the middle of section D.

The list thing is pretty meaningless.  THey're going to disperse everyone anyway at least one, and probably several more times before tomorrow at 4:45.  People will wind up doing much better or worse than they deserve in terms of line numbers.

I'm sorry to sound harsh, but I have no reason and no intention to respect that piece of paper. Why should I? After all, the people who created it didn't respect the fact that we're all supposed to wait until 4:45 tomorrow. And besides, there isn't even any way to know for sure that all the people who "signed" their name on the list were actually there. It's meaningless and, as Justin pointed out, the crowd will be dispersed anyway.

Well I'm off to bed.....see you all in line :-P

Avash, I understand your reasoning, and I personally am not going to stop you from trying to take an earlier place in line, but there are a few things you should probably consider:

1) When was the last time that people didn't attempt to line up before the pre-announced time?  Not counting the lottery year(s? how many years was the lottery in existence? I was only around for the last lottery year), I'm fairly sure that there have always been people in the line before the line was meant to begin, at least in recent history.

2) I would think that a fair chunk of those 25 people, if not all of them, will be hanging around (or trying to hang around) Bartels and/or Biotech all day today, so if you're going to try to cut them, you're going to have to deal with them yourself.  If there is a conflict like this and it resorts to violence, are CUPD and Athletics going to really sort things out, or are they just going to ban the whole lot of you from getting tickets?

3) See my prior post about those select few @$$hole frat boys.

Being #26 in line isn't so bad, since it still pretty much guarantees a seat or two in section B if you want it.  Unless there's an overwhelming amount of people that don't collectively respect the list (probable, in which case, it's every man for himself--good luck!), it might serve you better to give the list some respect, especially since you're going to be sharing section B with them until February/March.  Isn't it better to get along with your fellow faithful?

Again, I repeat, I have nothing personally to gain from respecting or disrespecting the list.  I just want to see things go smoothly and keep from turning ugly.

As was said before CUPD will disperse any crowd that forms prior to the official start of the published procedure.  So far the people that have been removed from the "unofficial" lines have been cooperative.  We will continue this effort all day long and hope that level of cooperation remains the same.  Our goal is to make the process as fair as it can be given the process that has been laid out.  We support the Lyah Faithful and we hope that everything works out for the majority.

I had said that I would be there today - however my schedule has changed and I will not be able to attend.  However I have faith that the officer(s) that will be there will maintain the same level of civility and cooperation.

The idea of this "unofficial list" is somewhat laughable.

The policy is quite clear -- no lining up before 4:45 PM.  So someone who is there at 4:45 should have the same chance as being first in line as anyone who was there last night.  

I won't be able to be there this year, but it should be interesting to see what happens.  In reality, they should just let people lineup whenever they please.  Just announce a time for handing out line numbers, and let folks line up as they please.  Preventing people from lining up until a set time seems like a good recipe for another mad dash/stampede type scene.


Oh...and one last thing.  If we're respecting unofficial lists, then I was there last Friday and wrote my name down on a piece of paper.  So I'm #1  

:-P

I agree with Jim on this whole mess - I can't see how self-policing the line would be that difficult.  Thankfully, the only time I had to wait in line when I was on The Hill was for Harvard playoff tickets my senior year, but that seemed to work out fine.  Of course, we did start that line and we, as season ticket holders, had tickets already (we just wanted to get enough seats to put our pledges in section O with the letters "W-E-S-U-C-K" painted on them, but that's another story ::nut:: ), so we were dealing with a much smaller crowd, but I can't remember any huge problems.

Maybe I'm getting naive at my old age  ::help:: , but I think it's being made more complicated than necessary.

Upon reflection, all good points (and I'm not a frat boy, I should also note) :-) . Don't get me wrong, I want this afternoon to go smoothly too; hopefully it will.

Quick sidenote, last year I think I was #150 or something like that, and when I chose seats on Sunday morning, there were still seats left in the two back rows of Section B. I went with the sixth row of A on the aisle, but my point is that section B is still available for line numbers well after #25.

Late for class......

Aren't there a little over 300 seats in each section (except for the corner sections F and K)?  So assuming each line number grabs two seats, #150 would still get into B, albeit as Avash stated, probably in worse parts of B.

I checked the line at about 8:30-8:40 and there seemed to be 30+ people there, most likely even more by now.  I have no idea if they are on the unofficial list or not, though.

there are at least a couple hundred people there now... when I called to complain, athletics said there was little they could do, but the cops have been trying... grrr, I'm pissed

Yeah, so, there were probably 2000 people there by 4:45, the line stretched around the entire field behind the fieldhouse. They ran out of line numbers by the time they got to the second corner (the corner near Plant Sciences).

After 4 years of season tickets, I'm trying to redirect my bloody murderous range to something constructive... I am offering to buy spares off of absolutely anybody, up to two per game... you know, you people w/ tickets that aren't actually in town, etc.

-Fred

So, I guess the official madness has now started and anyone in a position to report here would need WiFi to do so.  I'll just have to be patient . . .

But I have to admit - I really want to hear how this turned out. [Prediction: Badly.]

[Edit: Crazy. Fred put up his report as I was typing my prediction.]



Post Edited (09-12-03 17:47)

Cornell just committed a grave travesty.  I was there an hour before the line was supposed to form and i still didnt get a number.  The response i got was that they let the line form and turned a blind eye to it.  So Cornell just let people not follow the rules f@ck people who listened to the rules and tried to obey everything so that it would run smoothly.  Yet another huge mistake by this awful pathetic state school.  Congratulations cornell, you blew this one worse than a murphy call.

A stellar job by Cornell athletics this afternoon.  Upon arriving at 4:25 (thinking I shouldn't get there too early so my ID would not be taken away) I discovered about one thousand bright eyed students, mostly freshmen, already wrapping around the fence to the soccer fields.  I guess having season tickets for the last three years, attending all the playoff games, and even cheering on the team in Estero means I wasn't as dedicated a fan as those students who went before 4:45.  

The explanation from the poor guy who had to tell us all to go home was, "that's it, go home, this wasn't an official line anyway."  When I asked about what would happen to the line numbers of students who were holding more than two, he said they weren't sure...some rumors were spreading about a similar line next weekend for any of the 800 line numbers that were confiscated and/or used to purchase only one ticket.

I guess I'll just sit in my room this season listening to radio broadcasts of a game taking place less than a mile away.  I really can't think of a better way to spend my final year at Cornell.

Amen

QuoteDeltaOne81 '03 wrote:
Yeah, so, there were probably 2000 people there by 4:45, the line stretched around the entire field behind the fieldhouse. They ran out of line numbers by the time they got to the second corner (the corner near Plant Sciences).

Holy crap.  I suspect that by having 4:45 be the earliest time you could get line numbers, they planted in people's mind that the sale in some sense started at 4:45 Friday rather than whenever they actually sell the tickets.  I wonder what the attrition rate for this line will be; some sizeable fraction may actually drop out over the weekend.  (Were all 2000 willing to camp out all that time, or were they not looking past Friday?  Also, you could probably get people to drop out of the line by letting them know Lenny had turned pro.)  Of course, if they have no more line numbers, they can't keep track of the post-line waiting list.

I was going to say the only thing that made sense, if they insisted on "dispersing" lines that formed before 4:45, was to assign everyone there at that time random numbers at the start of the line.  Not having a plan meant assuming a negligible number of people would be there then, which anyone with any sense knew would not be the case.  However, I don't think anyone expected that more people would be there this afternoon than could buy tickets in the end.  In that case, randomizing doesn't work, or it basically becomes a lottery with the added element of having to camp out after the lottery to earn your tickets.

Under these circumstances, it seems like the only solution is to let people line up as early as they want.  RPI students used to camp out for a week back in the old days.  I don't think fiascos like the 1992 stampede are an argument against self-policed lines.  As I recall, part of what led to that was that the University deliberately kept the location of the distribution a secret until the last minute.  It seems like letting people line up over the course of time is a lot less of an invitation to chaos than trying to surprise them or making them wait until the last minute to line up, or telling them you they can't line up and then not enforcing it.

I do sort of wish Cornell had a "live view of the ticket line" on their website.

QuoteJohn T. Whelan '91 wrote:
As I recall, part of what led to that was that the University deliberately kept the location of the distribution a secret until the last minute.  It seems like letting people line up over the course of time is a lot less of an invitation to chaos than trying to surprise them or making them wait until the last minute to line up, or telling them you they can't line up and then not enforcing it.

That is what I recall also, John.  I was a grad student during Fall '92, so I didn't bother getting on line early. (I was told I would be the eqivalent of a freshman, not a senior.)  IIRC '91 was also a stampede/fiasco, but I was in DC for the fall semester and didn't wait then either.

I also think you have the conclusion exactly right.  In an effort to avoid having people camp out they are finding a new way to get it wrong every year.  While I respect their creativity (could you think of a new superficially-satisfactory-but-ultimately-disastrous way to line up every year?), I am disappointed that they won't do the easiest and most fair thing.

The way you avoid a weeks-long line is to announce the location of number distribution 2 or 3 days before the number distribution itself.  Announce it by having the location posted in Teagle at 6AM or so but DO NOT GIVE THE INFORMATION TO THE DAILY SUN (the staffers always leaked the info, so there would be a line before the papers got delivered).  And keep the location tightly under wraps until the announcement.  Shouldn't be too hard to do. You have two days to set up a table where you are claim the line will be, and all you need is a table to give out the numbers - ticket sales will be done, as always, at Lynah and can be done at a later date.



Post Edited (09-12-03 18:57)

Personally I think they need to figure out why the hell 3x as many people lined up this year. Yeah, the team was really good, but there's gotta be more to it.

One idea... the line was two weeks earlier this year... school work hasn't really picked up, no prelims... if they did it at the end of September like they usually do, you'd get worse weather and more stressed students. I bet it'd decrease numbers by a factor of 2.

Exactly.  The people who followed the published rules were essentially punished (for getting there "too late"), while those who flaunted those rules by arriving hours/days in advance were rewarded with a line number.

I didn't understand why they only handed out 800 line numbers.  Now if people don't buy their two tickets or drop/get kicked out of line, there will be a surplus of tickets and no clear/fair way of distributing them among the 2000+ other people who were there at 4:45 waiting (other than holding another ticket line at a future date, god forbid).

I said it before and I'll say it again, IF they are going to establish an "official" start time before which nobody is supposed to line up, the only fair way to distribute line numbers to those who are there at the official start time is by random number assignment.  People showing up after the start time would just form a line starting with the next number above the highest number of the pre-4:45 batch.  And make sure you give numbers to everyone who is there, just warn the people with numbers above 800 (or some other reasonable number) that there is a strong possibility that they will not receive tickets unless a significant number of people drop out.

Great job Cornell... Gene, I'll accept your letter of resignation anytime.

[Q]And make sure you give numbers to everyone who is there, just warn the people with numbers above 800 (or some other reasonable number) that there is a strong possibility that they will not receive tickets unless a significant number of people drop out.[/Q]
Nah, that's no good. You don't want people standing there for a day before finding out they can't get tickets. The only saving grace of today was that I didn't wait more than an hour before officially finding out there was no hope. If people drop out they should do a lotto or simply a single day line...
"Oh, btw, we have 200 extra sets of tickets, on sale tomorrow at 8 am at the ticket office" - preferably where 'tomorrow' is a Saturday.

Oh yeah, another thing, if you are one of the people who got screwed over big time this year by the procedure, or just don't like what happened, give Gene Nighman and Athletics an earful via phone or email.  I know I will be.

Nighman was quoted in the Sun on 9/10 as saying "... I have a directive from the upper administration not to schedule anything during classes. The official line can't start until 4:45 p.m. on Friday" (emphasis mine).  Oh really?  Then how come there was a 1000+ person line formed at least one hour before 4:45?  How come the "official line" developed directly out of this supposedly illegitimate line?

Another issue was cutting in this unofficial line.  Nighman is also quoted as saying "I'm going to have totally strict security behind Bartels. No one is coming in and out. There's not going to be any cutting in line this year."  That's laughable, considering I saw at most two security officers, who were just standing near the front of the line.  As far as I could see, the entire long side of the fields fence along Tower Road was not policed at all.  During the two and a half hours I waited in line before being told they were out of line numbers, I saw a steady trickle of cutters moving forward from the back of the line, apparently realizing it was the only way they'd get a half-decent number (if any number at all).  If the organizers are going to be understaffed and not enforce their own published rules, they should at least come right out and say it so people aren't so surprised when reality hits.

Disgraceful, from what I'm reading.

Simply disgraceful.

wow. holy shit! that freaking sucks. sorry y'all. if the front of the line is composed mostly of clueless freshmen then lynah is going to suck big time this year.  i'm surprised that there were that many people around - even with last year's appearance at the frozen four. what i'm not surprised at is the incompetence of the ticket office yet again. the all should be fired and the sun should be bombarded with complaints. the sun can't ignore the masses and at the very least the AD should be embarassed and scolded publically.

Btw, for people who don't think cutting should be a major concern in a self-monitored line (or, at least, it could be self-monitored), I have these numbers for you...

Some people who got there and was 80 initially, ended up 280. Someone else who counted and said they were about 200 when they got there, ended up 450. I also heard a story from the unofficial line where some frat (sorority?) used one guy to hold a place for 30.

I think the only way to do it is to give out line number immediately. That way you can't have cutting. Anything else is a joke

Does anyone know if there's truth to the rumor that Athletics advertised heavily to the frosh?

... dumbasses

Btw, Sarge... I'm not saying you didn't mean it when you said it, but looks like what you said turned out to be total bullshit, huh?

For more quotes from Gene, here's a link to the whole Sun story:
http://www.cornelldailysun.com/articles/8963/

I have yet to hear a valid reason as to why the line can't be done like it was at RPI back in the day.  "It's contradictory to the mission of the University" isn't a valid reason or explanation to me.  These people are probably more concerned with liability than anything else.  If so, have the line members sign a release.  But this trend of Athletics setting a procedure, and then not following that procedure is getting tiring.  

If they're going to lie, they might as well make it interesting.  Tell everyone to line up in front of Bartells, then at 4:45 announce that the line numbers are waiting for them at Noyes, fire a shotgun in the air, and watch the "It's a Mad, Mad, Mad, Mad World" chase scene ensue.  
 ::nut::

Yeah, so I got screwed over too, but potentially I'm getting screwed over even worse than the people who were told to go home.  You see, my group of people was cut right in half by the assignment of #800, effectively giving half our people the line numbers we need.  Somehow, we eliminated people who really didn't want to be there and also acquired some additional numbers ahead of us in line to make our new, reduced group work.  However, the numbers we were given suggest that, since there are 1528 student seats, only the first 764 numbers are guaranteed to get seats, since most likely most people will purchase two seats and have a rotation system where they don't have to be in Bartels 100% of the time.  We're basically hoping that (a)enough people only take one seat, and/or (b)enough people miss their line checks.  I heard a rumor that numbers 10 and 11 missed their first line check, which is good.  However, evil, evil Gene (I'm sorry I ever tried to defend that guy in the past) told me that last year, maybe 12-15 people actually missed their line checks, which doesn't make me feel any more pleasant.

Basically, the reason I feel the most screwed over is that I have to do all the waiting for a still very little chance of getting the tickets my group needs.  And, more likely than not, even if we do get the right number of seats, they won't be all together, probably strewn throughout F and G.  ::uhoh::

[q]if the front of the line is composed mostly of clueless freshmen then lynah is going to suck big time this year.[/q]

Awwwwwww SEE YA! Assgoos!!!

 ::yark::

not only did i go to all of the home games last year and spend a lot of money to buy tickets so i could cheer cu hockey on at the  froxen four game in buffalo... but i sat in my one stupid class today wanting to sprint out and run to lynah to get in line and stay there for 32+ hrs... but i didnt run out and instead waited through the class and then another hr after it because i stupidly half-listened to the warning about getting there before 4:45... i got there @ 3:15 and was probably around 1000th in line... by 5 when we were all told to go home there were probably another 1000+ behind me in line.... what is wrong with this picture?  someone messed up and now we're all paying for it by having to sit home instead of cheer on our favorite team this year :-(

Well I'll give my take/version of the unprecedented chaos and commotion that took place today - mostly for the benefit of those who weren't there to see it. When I showed up at 12:45, a list of approximately 350 people (unofficial, of course) had been created. Despite the odd fact that there were no more than 50 people actually present at this time, I signed the list anyway. While we were all standing around and talking/wondering what the afternoon would hold, a guy came up and motioned for the list, presumably to sign it. Then, to the surprise of everyone, he sprinted (and I mean SPRINTED) off with it to a getaway car (allegedly). It was quite a moment!

So, with the list gone, people began to form a line along the fence at the west end of the practice fields. By the time I ran back to my apartment to pick up my chair, books, etc. and came back to stand in line, there were NO MORE than 100 people in front of me in line. At about 2PM, a police officer came by and said to everyone that this line would be honored as legitimate, which I'm sure is a point of concern for those folks who showed up at 4:45. To the dismay of everyone behind them in line, the first 50-100 people did an awful job of policing the front of the line; there was hardly any sense of order, save for the voices of a few intelligent people (you know who you are - good job, I mean it.). Basically, it was like a bad Cornell version of Lord of the Flies. By the time 4:45 rolled around, approximately 130 people "cut" in front of me; indeed, a few assholes held spots for upwards of 20 people each. As Jordan said - "disgraceful." Line cutting happened all over the place though, moving people who initially would have had a line number of about 600 to well past 800 and without a chance of being able to stay the night - simply unfair, and I feel really really bad for people who showed up when they were supposed to. And indeed, there were probably about 2000 people there and probably was the largest crowd to ever watch a women's lacrosse practice :) (and is it in fact the largest number of people to ever show up the hockey ticket line?)

Well the bottom line is, they really really screwed this one up. I know I can't possibly be as angry/upset as those of you who can't get tickets this year, but I am nevertheless disgusted with how the Athletics department and the CUPD handled the situation today. The Sgt. who posted here said that even though he could not make it, he was confident that his peers would handle the situation well. They didn't and should be ashamed of themselves. And a lot of people aren't getting tickets because of them and because of the jerks - and I'm only referring to the people who showed up at 3 or 3:30 and weasled their way into the front of the line, not the people who legitimately were there before -  towards the front of the line. I'll stop JUST SHORT now of hoping that a puck hits you in your fucking heads while you're sitting in your undeserved Section B seat. I was lucky, but you ruined it for a lot of people further back in line.

Well my shift starts in the morning, so I'm off to bed.....

Yeah... they could have just started handing out line numbers from the back of the line at 4:45, would kinda make sense too...

But anyway, I noticed a bunch of line cutting, and I was all the way at the back for a while.  I stood there, helpless, as perhaps ten or twenty people jumped infront of a friend.  What could I do myself?  I said that they should go to the back of the line, but nobody cared.  After the line stopped moving, I was still over by the track field, so I sat down and did some chem, all while the line cutters were talking about how dumb I was.  Oh well, they didn't get tickets either.

I'm a local myself, so I've been to a sufficient number of hockey games already (I'm a freshman too).  I'm quite saddened, though, that I won't be a part of the Lynah faithful this year.  I'm also quite saddened that at an institution that is able to produce extremely successful individuals, and that is able to crank out top-notch research, cannot find a way to make rules to sell 1,500 tickets and stick to them.

Well, there's always next year.

Not true.  We removed over 350 people from the "unofficial line" from Thursday night/Friday morning.  When I left campus at 10:30 am Friday morning we had just removed whatever was left of the line that had formed.  When I got back to campus at 4:00 pm I was very disappointed at what I saw.

One officer, which is what was hired by athletics, was simply not enough to deal with the crowd.  Remember, we didn't make the rules, we just tried to enforce 'em.  

The real shame is that those people who did follow the rules got penelized.  I half jokingly had mentioned that they should have started handing out the line numbers starting with the back of the line.  But reality is that would have started a riot.

One othr thing, President Lehmen had encouraged all the freshman to wait in line for the hockey tickets during one of the orientation sessions - hench my belief in the large contingent of the class of '07.

I'm dissapointed that some deserving and loyal fans got the short end - but there is another 364 days before the next sale and that leaves time for discussion and compromise so that it is not repeated.

for anyone looking to vent, here's the AD feedback site - let them have it.

http://cornellbigred.ocsn.com/feedback/corn-feedback.html

I personally would request having the line numbers invalidated and a new process reinstated for next weekend with someone hired by the AD to be there from now through then, giving out numbers as people arrive and doing a line check every 2-3 hrs. this way no one could cut line. it would also get rid of all the freakin bandwagoners. this is by far the worst mess ever made of the line procedure. the whole dept is composed of freakin morons. i despise them ... and i am 3 hrs away from the whole situation and had no intention of trying to get student season tix this year. I can't imagine how those of you who've been screwed by the system feel - esp poor fred.  

Screw the AD ... before they screw you AGAIN!

Thank you Sgt. Gourley for at least some explanation.  True, we can always try to make it better next year (I'm sure a lot of us were discussing more 'perfect' systems throughout yesterday), but the question is, will Athletics listen?

I knew I wouldn't like President Lehman from the getgo...this just confirms it... ::screwy::

ok. so i got very little sleep, am up early and now find myself really frustrated for all of you who got screwed. having an immense dislike for the AD stretching back several years only makes me angrier. thus i composed the following and e-mailed it to the AD.

You guys messed up BIG TIME ... yet again. You make line rules and then make no efforts at enforcing them. Now you are left with a body of season ticketholders more into the line and socializing than the sport - mostly clueless freshmen out to party for the week-end with no idea of the tradition of fans at the game and no desire to watch the sport itself. All the loyal fans followed the stupid 4:45 rule - not wanting to risk having their ID noted and being forbidden from getting tickets at all. As a result, those following the rules and respecting the AD (why, no one really knows as past experience has all of us doubting your competency) got screwed. It sucks and is horribly unfair.

Hell has already broken loose. However, if you want to prevent the public backlash and lambasting that will most certainly ensue, I highly recommend invalidating the line numbers given out, setting the sale up for next week-end and hiring people (more than a single rent-a-cop ... only a complete moron would expect one man to control a crowd of 2000 and prevent line cutting, etc) to police the line from now till then. Numbers should be handed out as people arrive (yes - ARRIVE - thus cutting the line isn't an issue). Thus only those who really want the tickets and are willing to camp out long enough will be rewarded for their dedication and efforts. Then and only then will you truly have the Lynah faithful.

Everyone knows that the Lynah atmosphere is a great selling point when it comes to recruiting. Well recruiting this year was just made more difficult. Based on early evaluations of those composing the line and on the large number of faithful that have been sent home without a line number with the current system (if one can even call the unorganized mess that went down a system of sorts) I'm willing to hazard a guess that you just lost the special atmosphere. The clueless freshmen will lose interest after the first week-end and you'll have a half filled Lynah for most of the season ... so great work. Congrats on yet another completely unsuccessful line.

It isn't too late to fix the huge mistakes you've made. Please invalidate the numbers and sell again next week-end ...this time without a "don't line up before" time. Let the fans show you what being "failthful" really means.


I might forward the recruitung part to the coach ... cause it might certainly end uo being a valid point and at that point he really should step in. have a great day all.

The Pepband and I will have the privilege of visiting the line later today, but based on what I've read here, I have some thoughts:

1) Giving the pikers and potential facetimers the benefit of the doubt, the reports of 2000 people in the line at 4:45 would equate to the Athletic department being able to sell 4000 season tickets just to students.  I think this speaks strongly for arguments that have been made in favor of getting a new, expanded rink.

2) Another way to fit more people into fewer seats would be this: sell separate sets of season tickets for Fridays and Saturdays.  Dedicated fans could buy both, while people with less interest or less money might buy just one.

3) If we want to take willingness to wait in line as a fair indicator of ones enthusiasm for the team, there is a way to measure this without having to deal with policing a pre-4:45 line.  Instead of having a set end time (when tickets are actually purchased) and a badly defined start time (when people start lining up), have a fixed start time, before which anyone interested in season tickets must report to, say, Barton or Newman Arena.

After the official start time, nobody else is let in, and ticket office people take a census of everyone there.  Over the next several days, the less dedicated people give up and leave, ticketless.  When they get down to 800 or so, Athletics starts handing out the equivalent of line numbers to people as they leave, in reverse order.  The people who wait the longest, therefore, get the best numbers.  If it goes on for a couple days, maybe they just assign everyone left random numbers.

A week later or so, once everyone has had time to recover, do the actual ticket sales, starting with the people who had waited longest.  There are lots of ways to do this--it could even be done by phone or online.

-Shorts

so after all these issue with line forming times, i'm thinking back to some of the bigger concerts the concert commision has put on.  i remember, maybe 5 or 6 years ago, dave matthews performed at cornell.  people began to line up FIVE DAYS before they gave out ticket numbers.  there was no "official" line forming time, nor did anyone die from being outside, not going to classes, etc.  people got tents and camped out.  people policed themselves (shocking, i know) for 5 days.

if they are going to continue to do the hockey sale in early september while the weather is warm, why not just let people camp out?  i understand there is some liability issue for the school, but if we can do it for concerts, why not for hockey tickets?  set a time for line numbers to be handed out, but don't set any "official" line up time, because as we've seen for the past few years, this flat out doesn't work.

i'm also surprised that no one (at least this year) has paralled the hockey sale to Duke basketball ticket sales (or any other major sport at another university).  people camp outside and wait in line for tickets.  i think someone from the athletic department at Cornell should get on the phone and call up someone at Duke and find out how Duke handles the basketball season ticket sale.  there are MANY schools across the country that have wildly popular athletic teams, and i can't imagine that they all have the problems that continue to plague Cornell's hockey ticket sale.  Call up Duke and ask about bball season ticket sales.  Call up PSU and ask about football season ticket sales.  Call up Michigan and see how they handle hockey season ticket sales.  Come on Cornell, get with it and fix this problem.

ok. maybe i'm a sucker for punishment but ... i like this idea!!!:-D

Invalidating the line numbers now is just going to lead to a riot. Even though I assume most of the people with the good line numbers don't deserve them at all, they are complete jerks and thus will completely go beserk if they announce that the numbers have been invalidated and that everything will just happen again next week.

What I just thought of now is.... why is it that when tickets for a concert or lecture event go on sale at Willard Straight, they go on sale at 9 AM on a school day? Isn't that contrary to the mission of Cornell University? I've seen the line for such tickets extend all the way from the Straight to around the library entrances. I'm sure that at least some people in line are sacrificing a class or 2 in order to get the tickets they want. I know that obviously the demand for concert tickets and the demand for hockey tickets is different, but if Cornell lets concert tix go on sale at 9 am, they ought to let the official line for hockey tickets form during the school day. You don't have to call it the "official" line, but patrol it well, make sure it's fair and not being cut into, and all will be well. It's a student's right to skip class if he/she chooses. 1 day of missed class in the long run is insignificant.

Gene, if you somehow keep your job after this mess, I suggest you take a field trip and call up any big school with a high-demand sport (for example, Duke men's basketball) and study what works there and how it could be applied here. Maybe I'll do that for you and include it in that complaint letter I'm gonna send to you and the AD.

And let me copy and paste a direct quote from you that was in the Cornell Daily Sun:

"I'm going to have totally strict security behind Bartels. No one is coming in and out. There's not going to be any cutting in line this year."

You're going to do this with ONE policeman? That's what you call extra security??? I think there are hundreds of Faithful ready to put their feet in your mouth.

Ah Dan, you got many of my points posted as I was writing mine... great minds think alike.

I am sorry to see that some of the forum's most faithful contributors have been shut out of tickets from this year's system.  I can tell you that a lot of people I have talked to in the Ramin Room are buying a second ticket with the intention of selling it.  If you guys really want to get tickets, I would recommened going to the Ramin Room and asking around.  You may have to pay a little more for the tickets, but you can definitely get them.

I've heard the same thing about people selling their tickets around the Ramin room today; ask around - you may be pleasantly surprised. (The most shocking sale I witnessed yesterday, by the way, was when a girl paid 500 dollars for a line number of about 220.)

Furthermore, I didn't have season tickets my freshman year, but I went to 11 games anyhow; now I know that was a different season with different circumstances surrounding it, but all I'm saying is that it will be possible for some of you to go to games this year. And whenever I myself have an extra ticket or when I hear of a friend of mine having an extra ticket, I promise I'll post it here before anywhere else. Also - single game tickets go on sale (I believe) on Oct. 15. That may be an opportunity to buy some seats for several games, albeit at a little higher of a price.

I have an idea.  Make Lynah bigger or build another rink.  Sure, I've been a loyal fan for years and I love Lynah and it's tradition.  But clearly demand outpaces supply here and THERE'S NO REASON FOR THAT.  Just build a rink with 1,000 or so more seats and you'll never have these issues.

One thing is true... you can't have a bigger rink and have the same asinine procedure as you had this year...

500 dollars for a line number??? If it's some frat boy jerk that is *profiting* from this now, that's beyond belief.

when the guy came past us and told us all to go home he said that the rule was never enforced and no one was sent home thursday or friday... he said "people came on wednesday, what were we supposed to do?"... to me it sounded like there was never any attempt made to enforce the rules.

Every year, they say:
1. We'll dispurse any lines that start forming before this time.
2. The area will be heavily patrolled before that time.

What happens:
1. People start forming unofficial lines anticipating the official line
2. There's a couple of security people on hand who don't send the people in the unofficial line home
3. People who follow the rules get screwed.

So lessons learned:
1. People in charge of ticket distribution keep saying that they're tinkering with the system and have a better system than last year but there really hasn't been a change in the posted rules or how tose rules are really enforced
2. Just show up as early as possible and keep trying back if you want those tickets.

Have I missed anything?

I can confirm the one guy holding a place for 30.  He got a mouthful but even the people yelling at "the guy" were letting their friends cut them while they were yelling at him.  Did that last sentence make sense?  I've been in a daze since yesterday.

That line was a disaster.  The waiting list is basically line numbers 760-800, and they are hoping that Gene kicks out enough people during the next 24 hours.  I have so many friends that won't be getting tickets for the first time because they were afraid of being punished for showing up early.



Post Edited (09-13-03 12:46)

Ok, hear me out here, because just like most of you, I got totally fucked by this line bull jazz, but considering just the sheer number of people who showed up yesterday, wouldn't there be a good chunk of people who got screwed regardless.  Maybe, we just need more seats.  If CU hockey is more popular, maybe there should be another answer; maybe more seats for students, less for townies perhaps.  And I'm not an expert with fundraising or the athletic department's budget, but is there even an effort to build us a bigger hockey rink so Cornellians won't have to deal with this disappointment for decades to come.  I mean, come on, we had a number one ranking last year; let's get a fuckin rink that can hold more than 2500 (or whatever it is) people.

I'm pissed too.  Here is a copy of the letter I sent the AD.  I attended all home games last year, the frozen four, and 3 away games (North Country in a snow storm, Colgate). This year I will be listening to the games about 300 yards from Lynah.

Hockey Ticket Screw-Up:
Needless to say I'm very upset at the way the ticket sales were run this year.  A friend of mine came into our lab at 3 and said there was already a long line outside and so we gathered our things and ran over there.  When we showed up there was about 300 people in front of us.  By the time they handed out line numbers, somehow 600 people had "cheated" and cut in front of us so that we can't get season tickets to the hockey game.  And I'm not alone, there were at least 500 more people behind me---all of which showed up before the "official" start time.  Obviously I'm deeply disappointed in the students who felt it was "ok" to cheat and cut into a line in a place where they did NOT deserve to be, but I'm disappointed that the AD did not have a way to prevent this temptation by the students.  All that you would have needed was some rope so that the line was single file instead of a big group of people. That way, if some people walked up to the line (or even 20 people like yesterday) it would be really obvious that they were cutting in line as they would have to duck under the rope and the people in this presumably tight line would have to make room.  And then all you need is 3-4 police or "officials" to watch the line so that this doesn't occur.  I'm convinced that this would have prevented the biggest travesty of yesterday--people who are not dedicated enough to sit in line from getting ahead of those who are.

There is one problem with building a bigger rink.  With the exception of the Harvard game, there are empty seats in Lynah.  Granted, those tickets have been sold, but if you build a bigger rink, you have more empty seats.  

I haven't been to Lynah in a couple years, and I know this was always the case when I was in school.  This may have changed with the success of the team in recent years.

This all being said, I'm all for enlarging Lynah.  There was another thread on this board saying the waiting list for townie season tickets is years.  I don't think there would be any problem selling the tickets to fill a rink twice the size of the Lynah (~6000 seats total, if i'm remebering the size of lynah correctly).  Getting people's butts in the seats, thats another problem.  But they could sell the tickets and make their $$$.  

One potential problem I could see is parking.  I'm not sure how you'd handle the increased attendance at the games.  Not too many places to put another couple hundred cars up there.

QuoteDan '01 wrote:

One potential problem I could see is parking.  I'm not sure how you'd handle the increased attendance at the games.  Not too many places to put another couple hundred cars up there.

An average crowd for a CU football game is about 6000.  Homecoming is usually over 10,000.  It's the same location.

Everyone calling for a bigger arena wasn't there for '92-'95 when having 75% capacity crowd was pretty good.  Even last year, we didn't have 1000+ students being turned away in the ticket line.  Obviously, I hope that we become a Frozen Four regular, but chances are that we won't enjoy 2003-level success every year and the number of fair-weather faithful will decrease.  Lynah has proven to be a good size for the campus and the community.

This was unquestionably a big screw-up, but not one has to be careful what one wishes for.  Duke basketball has been mentioned as a model.  Visiting there a couple of years ago, we were told a few things that make the situation different.  For undergraduates, the tickets were free and only available on a game-by-game basis.  That removed some of the pressure of a season ticket sale.  To handle the frequent campouts, there were big tents set up essentially permanantly to handle the crowds - they call it Krzyzewski-ville.  
http://tieguy.org/tent/spring98/espn2-26-98.html  
http://www.duke.edu/~bbp2/kville.htm  
http://www.hamptonroads.com/pilotonline/sports/sp0216qna.html
If I recall correctly, there was electricity and even internet connections available, but I may be romanticising.  After the student allocation is given out, that's it.  The priority of the non-student season ticket holders is paramount.  Empty seats go unfilled.
http://www.cavalierdaily.com/CVArticle.asp?ID=6875&pid=664

Duke graduate students can purchase season tickets in an interesting system apparently run by the Graduate and Professional Student Council.
http://www.duke.edu/gpsc/bball/2003_BBall_policy.pdf

Other places have their problems, too.
http://www.inform.umd.edu/News/Diamondback/archives/2002/02/13/news1.html

After visiting the line last night around 1:30 AM and having a chat with the door/number check guys, I learned of several other ways athletics is totally screwing the whole process up:

- Everyone was free to leave and go home at midnight if they desired, and by the looks of it most people did.  I talked to my friend who was lucky enough to get a line number, and he said about 3/4 of the people went home for the night.  There were no number checks from midnight until 8 AM.

- Supposedly they are going to end the line early tonight at 6 instead of going all the way until 11 PM.  I didn't get a chance to double verify this info, but I don't see any reason why the staff guy would lie to me, unless he was just mistaken.  So basically they are softening the overall time commitment and in the process making it easier for more casual fans to get tickets.

- When I was asking the guy if there was any chance of them handing out new line numbers if people got kicked out/lost their number (which, by the way, the answer was no), I commented on how it was unfair how they said people would not be permitted to line up prior to 4:45 and how the people who broke that rule were the ones who ended up getting line numbers.  The guy's response, and this is a verbatim quote: "They lie every year."  At least now we know what to expect next year from the organizers....

Something which Judy pointed out and that Cornell Fan pointed out:

No matter what the athletic department says, just go there as early as you can.  Evidently, this rule was made to be broken.  Not that I'm encouraging civil disobedience, but the haphazard way this rule has been enforced in years past has shown that it will not be enforce.  You may be sent home, but you can show up 30 mins later, get in the "unofficial/official" line and get tickets.

So show up 2 or 3 days in advance, and keep going back until things are made official, regardless of what the official line up time is.

BTW, when I brought up Duke basketball, it was just the first thing that came to mind.  Other schools have wildly popular athletic teams and a limited number of tickets, after spending some time in Austin, UT football comes to mind as well.  I don't know how other schools handle it aside from Duke, but it's gotta be better than what Cornell is doing for hockey.

And I also see no problem with erecting a Schafer-ville outside of Lynah :-)



Post Edited (09-13-03 15:28)

Mark,

First, athletics charges students 1/2 the price (or there about) of a normal ticket that "townies" purchase. There is no way they will give up that revenue.

Second, Lynah seats approximately 4,000 when you include standing room along the rail, not 2,500.

Lastly, I have friends that have played for both Yale and Maine that have played a game(s) @ Lynah and told me without a doubt they think Lynah, as is, the BEST college hockey rink they have ever stepped foot into. If what the other (older, sorry ya'll have just been around longer than I have) Faithful have told me holds true, then the problem of supply and demand and  Cornell hockey fans are not new to one another. The line procedures published by Athletics just make it more obvious when the "rules" are not adhered to.

Interesting that you brought up the issue of possibly having a rope to make the line along the fence single-file. Students in the line thought of this well before the line got out of hand. They asked the Athletics personnel on hand for rope AS they were putting up the rope on the south end of the fence for the "official" line." The answer was "no."

QuoteBen Doyle '03 wrote:
First, athletics charges students 1/2 the price (or there about) of a normal ticket that "townies" purchase. There is no way they will give up that revenue.

I always thought it was about 1/3rd.  Nevertheless, doesn't the rest of the total cost per ticket (i.e., what the "townies", for lack of a better term, pay) get covered by each student's student activities fee?  I could be wrong, but I was always under the impression that that's how they could afford to give tickets to students for 'cheaper'.

QuoteLastly, I have friends that have played for both Yale and Maine that have played a game(s) @ Lynah and told me without a doubt they think Lynah, as is, the BEST college hockey rink they have ever stepped foot into. If what the other (older, sorry ya'll have just been around longer than I have) Faithful have told me holds true, then the problem of supply and demand and  Cornell hockey fans are not new to one another.

Personally, I agree.  I can't say each opposing player who has ever played at Lynah will agree 100%, but I have to imagine Lynah ranks among their personal best (well, maybe most intimidating/hardest to play in) college hockey rinks across the nation.  Sure, it isn't a huge rink like some other bigger name schools, but it doesn't have to be.  It's a big barn, but that's what helps the Lynah Faithful turn that barn into the greatest college hockey rink EVER! :-D

Also, crowds come and go.  It's natural to assume that lines are busier and longer in years following seasons of increasing success, like last year.  It's probably more a combination of that and how well relevant line information is advertised (and, of course, enforced).  If this year's team sucks, I expect next year will probably not have 1,000 people get told to 'go home'.

A few thoughts:

- Avash made a good point for people who won't get tickets.  Go to Bartels or Lyanh before the games and there will usually be people selling extra tickets, wither in the student section or elsewhere.  Ma freshmen year, I got a ticekt for the exhibition game, and then every single game after that I was outside buying tickets from those who were selling.  Sure you'll pay closer to townie prices than student prices, but hey, the games are worth way more than what we have to pay.  I think there will be plenty of tickets this year because, to me, a significant number of peoplein Bartels seemed like facetimers and will stop going when the team, as most predict, does not have as great a success as last year (but hey, here's hoping!).

- judy made yet another good point.  Don't believe a thing the athletic office says about policing until the official line time.  Come as early as you can, and check back regularly, because you never know when the line that becomes the official line is gonna form.

- The lack time requirements once people got in Bartel's was a joke.  Letting people go homefrom 11 pm to 8 am was complete and utter bullshit.  If anyone couldn't have stayed the night, there were 1000+ people who didn't get line numbers who I'm sure would be more than happy to do so.  Further, ending the line checks over an hour early only does more of the same.  Getting in Bartel's shouldn't be the end of the process; really, it should only be the beginning - once outside, the fans are supposed to show that they're committed enough to get heir tickets.

- Expanding Lynah, that is the question.  On one hand, this type of crowd shows that the current 1500 seats aren't nearly enough, as least this year.  But what if the team faces a few down years, will the demand still outpace the supply?  Further, how many people are going to come to EVERY game, as opposed to just Harvard and a few others?  While it would be nice to have the type of rink other high-ranked programs do, Lynah has a character of its own, a character I have grown accustomed to, and would not like to see leave.

- Did that plant sale annoy anyone else? C'mon, which is more important, some octogenerians who need some new shrubs or the hockey fans?!?!

Anyways, here's hoping that everyone here - the true committed fans - can get tickets and that the team has a great year.

First I'd like to apologize to everyone who didn't get tickets this year because I was one of the many people who didn't follow the "rules" and came early.  
I read the rules and told myself, "If they send me home, then I'll come back at 4:45."  I showed up around 7:30am on Friday and signed the "list."  Number 80.  After about 2 hours a CUPD officer came and told us to take a hike.  After sitting at the Ag Quad for about 3-4 hours I saw a great commotion happen when dozens of people near the Biotech building made a mad rush for the practice fence.  (This happened less than an hour after I saw a kid run into a blue Vovlvo?? with the "list.") I quickly gathered my belongings and ran for the fence.  I got there and estimated about 150-200 people ahead of me.  As the afternoon strethced closer to 4:45 and more people gathered around the fence, huge bulges begand to develop ahead of me.  People were clearly cutting and screwing other fellow Cornellians out of their position in line.  This got worse as it got closer to the "official line" time.
Long story short: I got a number in the 300's and am happy just to get it after seeing how many people got screwed.
BTW, expect to see season tickets go on sale from scalpers as I did hear several people estimating the profits they are going to make from having more season tickets than they need and even from students (as one had told me) that didn't like hockey but got in line to sell the tickets for a $300 profit.
Again, sorry if you got screwed over and if I have an extra ticket become available from my group of friends it will go on sale here for face value so that a Faithful can get it.

QuoteAlex Kushnir '06 wrote:

BTW, expect to see season tickets go on sale from scalpers as I did hear several people estimating the profits they are going to make from having more season tickets than they need and even from students (as one had told me) that didn't like hockey but got in line to sell the tickets for a $300 profit.

That is sickening that there are people who were able to get tickets with the sole intent of scalping them for a huge profit, while a large percentage of true fans didn't even have a chance in the line.  Yet another sign of Gene and athletics' incompetency to organize distribution. I hope to god the police are informed of this and put a stop to any price-inflated scalping that happens.  People shouldn't try to fuck over their "fellow" faithful (truly a misnomer, since these scumbags should never be considered to be part of the faithful).

QuoteOne of the guys who got revenge on Volonnino wrote:

Also, crowds come and go.  It's natural to assume that lines are busier and longer in years following seasons of increasing success, like last year.  It's probably more a combination of that and how well relevant line information is advertised (and, of course, enforced).  If this year's team sucks, I expect next year will probably not have 1,000 people get told to 'go home'.

Unfortunately, there won't be a "next year" for some of us...

I sure hope they didn't sell the "Lynah Faithful ... I did my time in line" shirts. . . ::screwy::

Anyone know how the seat selection went for those in the 600+ category, specifically those between 760-800? When I was there this morning, at number 234, all of B was basically gone, most of the left side of A, and D was just beginning to fill up.

I was just told that around 600 top parts of F and pretty much all of G was still open.

[Q]BTW, expect to see season tickets go on sale from scalpers as I did hear several people estimating the profits they are going to make from having more season tickets than they need and even from students (as one had told me) that didn't like hockey but got in line to sell the tickets for a $300 profit.[/Q]

I've never been able to sell tickets for more than they're worth. Hell, half the time I couldn't even give my spare away to friends. That kid's psycho and he deserves to probably lose money on the deal.

You want to know what the problem is... and I'm not saying I know how to fix it. But sleeping over had turned into something that the hardcore fans do into "the thing to do". I also think Athletics unintentionally encourages this by trying to set a limit on when you can get there. By mentioning 4:45 on Friday, they make that the new goal, rather than a few years back when all they said were line numbers will be distributed at 10 am Saturday.

Here's my new proposal, based on the good point of concert ticket sales above.

The Athletic's web page and maybe a handout by the ticket office say: "Season tickets go on sale at 8 pm on (a Saturday in late September). The line will form behind Bartels Hall. Line numbers will be given out as soon as you arrive and random line checks will be performed."

No mention of anything earlier so that no one gets the idea in their head, and only the true faithful show up a day or two before. Line numbers given out immediately so that no cutting can occur. The AD hasn't advertised anything early, so they don't put themselves directly in the wrath of the administration.

At 8 pm on Saturday seat selection occurs. You may pay anytime during Saturday, and then get your tickets as soon as you've selected your seats, or you may pay after you've selected your seats, or you may return on Sunday to pay and get your tickets.



Post Edited (09-14-03 13:26)

QuoteAvash '05 wrote:

Anyone know how the seat selection went for those in the 600+ category, specifically those between 760-800? When I was there this morning, at number 234, all of B was basically gone, most of the left side of A, and D was just beginning to fill up.

I have good news: everyone who had numbers (i.e., up to 800) who didn't miss line checks got the number of tickets they wanted.  Hooray!

As I believe I said before, my group of friends was in that final group rounding out at 800.  We got there at 1PM (for the 600-800 group's prescribed time), and naturally, we saw the number of the people there and the number of apparent available seats, and began to figuratively sh!t our pants.  However, around the time #750 or so was selecting seats, we looked at the board and our hopes rose, although we couldn't see precisely how many seats were left available from the line.  All we knew was that we'd end up in G, which was pretty much what we figured would happen anyway if we were lucky enough to get tickets.  So, our numbers came around and we ended up claiming chunks of rows 6 and 7 (and maybe 8, I don't recall) in G.  Unfortunately, these seats are all in the "no standing" portion of G.  (Yes, now they're actually delineating that in advance.)  All things considered, though, it could have been much worse.

The good news for those who didn't get tickets because they were in the totally screwed group of 1000 or so that was told to go home on Friday is that there are still a handful of seats in G left, I believe mostly or all in the "no standing" portion.  I don't know what Athletics is going to do with these seats, though.  I thought I heard that small group of people who were behind us in line (those would have ended up being 801-8xx) signed a piece of paper to give themselves numbers, but I have no idea if Athletics will honor that list or not.  In any case, those of the *real* faithful who got screwed on Friday should be on the lookout, in case they want to get seats (albeit somewhat crappy seats) at face value directly from Athletics.

Oh, one more thing, for those who don't know, yes they WERE selling the "I did my time in the line" shirts again this year.  They're slightly different; they have a little prisoner/jailbreak guy on the back along with a flying puck.  They ran out of the smaller sizes quickly, leaving only XLs left around 1PM on Saturday.  That was fine for me since I'm a big guy.  I actually ended up buying two, in case one of my friends who weren't there would want a shirt.  In the event that no one bought the shirt and I didn't get tickets, I would keep one shirt nice and use the other to complain.  On the back, it says "I did my time in the line."  I would have used a sharpie to write in directly below, "and I still got screwed by Cornell Athletics".  Luckily, I don't have to do that now, but now I don't know what to do with my second (or third, really) Lynah Faithful shirt. :-P

Line numbers up through 800 got their seats!  There were maybe 10 spare seats left in G as 800, my sister('06)'s number got to pick her seats.
Im so glad the morons in the group in front of us (which went from 10 people to 30 or so between 3pm and 6pm friday) sold us 2 of their line numbers allowing our entire group to get the tickets we so desperatly wanted.  

FUCKING FACE-TIMERS!!!!


-ben '04, lynah faithful since 1984

Lets just print up a bunch of them anyway.
Or maybe True Lynah Faithful on the front
and  FUCK THE FACE TIMERS on the back

sorry, im okay, i swear

Ladies and gentlemen, my friend and yours, Ben Rocky '04...;)

For those of you that didn't get tickets, couldn't you just call up the visiting school and buy tickets in Section O?  Why can't you do that and make Section O a Faithful section?  I mean, those of us not on campus rely on the visiting school's internet radio feeds since Cornell's costs money and generally sucks.  So why not take the extra step and order tickets from the visiting school?  It may not work for Hahvahd, but it should work for most other games.

First, I want to apologize to all those faithful who got shut out of the ticket process. My sister and her friends were there at 2pm hoping they would not kick them off the line. Like many others, they were cut by so many that our numbers went from 200-400. But, I am very happy that all 800 numbers got their tickets. Our group ended up at the bottom of A so we will have fun with the band.

Have faith all who did not get tickets. My firiends and I last year pretty much went to every game by buying single game tickets. Granted, several times we sat in section O but we still got into the games. Tickets frequently go on sale on this message boards and if aw.nyone in our group, doesn't need a ticket for a game, I will let you all know.

As far as this process, there must be a better way. Personally, I really liked it when years ago you simply sent in a letter for tickets. Sure, they favored upper classman but freshman did not have problems getting seats. I know there must be an increased demand for tickets now but this unpolicing/cutting/shutout of so many students is unfair also.

What happened to separate lines for upperclassmen?  I seem to recall in 1990-1993 they gave out line numbers on three different colors of paper - one for seniors, one for juniors, and one for sophomores and freshman.  All of the seniors got to choose seats before any juniors, etc.  Thus, section B was all seniors.  Each year our seats got better.

QuoteMel '00 wrote:

Personally, I really liked it when years ago you simply sent in a letter for tickets. Sure, they favored upper classman but freshman did not have problems getting seats. I know there must be an increased demand for tickets now but this unpolicing/cutting/shutout of so many students is unfair also.

Well, as I recall, it wasn't as simple as that.  It was a lottery system, really.  So with that system, all you really get is a different set of complaints for Athletics to handle.  My freshman year was the last year of the lottery, and I was one of the lucky ones to actually get tickets.  (Ironically, my seats this year are worse than my seats my freshman year.)  I somewhat like the idea of favoring upperclassmen*, but I only say that because I am an upperclassman. ;)  Unfortunately, that notion doesn't help freshmen who are locals (IHS graduates, for instance) and may have been members of the Lynah Faithful (albeit from the "townie" side) for years.  Considering the number of IHS graduates who come to Cornell each year, I wouldn't want to ignore them.  There's no reason in theory why a freshman can't be a hardcore Cornell hockey fan.  Now, if only we could find a way to discriminate between Faithful freshmen and facetimer/scalping @$$hole freshmen...

* - The amount of uneducated freshmen waiting around in the Ramin Room was readily apparent yesterday.  The band came to play and of course did a number of traditional Cornell hockey songs.  During "The Hey Song", there were too many people shouting "Hey" instead of "Sieve" and not knowing the following part.  Also, a sparse few of us rose and put our arms around each other to sing the Alma Mater.  It was quite sad to watch and I get the strange feeling that the real centers of hardcore fan support this season will be spread throughout B (as always) but also in F and G.  Oh well, I guess we'll wait and see.

For what it's worth,

A little birdie (possibly the same bird that Fred referred to) told me that next years line procedure will be changed so that
ONE person may  purchase ONE ticket only. This way more folks a chance at tickets as well as "paying your dues" b/c there will be no leaving and people will have to stay in line if they want the privileged to be called one of the Faithful.

We'll just have to wait and see what happens ::screwy::



Post Edited (09-14-03 21:05)

QuoteBen Doyle '03 wrote:

A little birdie (possibly the same bird that Fred referred to) told me that next years line procedure will be changed so that
ONE person may  purchase ONE ticket only. This way more folks a chance at tickets as well as "paying your dues" b/c there will be no leaving and people will have to stay in line if they want the privileged to be called one of the Faithful.

I heard that too, although the way I heard it, it was more of an idea that they were throwing around rather than an already agreed-upon policy for next year.

O.o.t.g.w.g.r.o. V. ;-) - I can't say for certain that's what will happen but I was told that is likely the way things will work next year.

I know that I rarely post but I am on here often reading what everyone else is writing.  I've been especially busy reading since I got screwed over on Friday for season tickets.  I just wanted to say that I think that the AD should go back to giving some priority to those Faithful who have been around a bit longer.  I've had season tickets for the past four years and am now a first year vet student at Cornell.  We had our first big test on Friday so there was no way that I could go and camp out early.  My boyfriend and his roommate are third year vet students and have had season tickets for the past 6 years and when we ran down from school at 4, we sadly realized that it was the end of an era... we're only hoping that we'll be able to get tickets on the 15th and by calling other school's ticket offices, though we're still planning on going away to RPI, Union, Colgate and Harvard just like we have been every year... doubt we'll see any of the face timers at any of those games...

hey all
a couple point that i am sure people in the last ten posts may have said, but i have to sleep :-)

the cutting of the line was insane. If you are going to determine who gets tickets and the order by which seats are selected by the order people appear in the line then you damn well had better police that line with hired people. spend the damn $280 to give 7 guys $40 for the day. gimme a break. do it correctly. if you do not disperse the line when it forms early then police. i know people who cut the line b/c they got there and realized they would not get tickets. this is not right either.

i think that there are few solutions to some of the problems facing lynah now:
empty seats - someone can organize a "get rid of your ticket 3 days before the game" board or place on campus or something can they not? have athletics put an add in the Sun if they are not happy with the frosh who fail to show up this season  - and that will happen.

too many people not enough tickets - sorry but I think we should expand/build a new rink. i am all for tradition - a new rink can be build with out the sound absorbing high roof at the RIP fieldhouse...

dont have tickets? - do what i did last year - call the enemy and get tickets for section O - problem games? north country duo, colgate, hahvahd. all others should be easy to obtain.

still dont have tickets? - sorry guys, that blows. I hope it all work out somehow...

Quotejy3 wrote:

empty seats - someone can organize a "get rid of your ticket 3 days before the game" board or place on campus or something can they not? have athletics put an add in the Sun if they are not happy with the frosh who fail to show up this season  - and that will happen.

Isn't that what the eLynah Ticket Exchange is for?

[Q]Isn't that what the eLynah Ticket Exchange is for?[/Q]

Yeah, but how many face-timers post here??

I do like the idea of Faithful buying out section O.  Nothing would help further psyche out opposing teams than their own fans getting drowned out and taunted by Faithful sitting right behind them.

like french rage said, not everyone knows about the ticket exchange or this board. of course someone could pass the www onto the frosh...

The Line at Lynah can't be like the K-Ville at Duke, mostly because K-Ville makes the students stay outside before every game for the entire season, which is fine if you're in North Carolina in the winter, but not in Ithaca.

Cornell should follow what Penn does for men's basketball.  Yes, Penn Basketball isn't a national powerhouse like Big Red Hockey, but there are lots of similarities:  big student body, small group of intensely loyal fans (and larger group of 'facetimers'), small arena, and teams always at the top of their leagues.

"In order to reserve spots in the line, fans will need to collect a bracelet with their group at a time and place that will be announced by www.PennAthletics.com sometime during the coming week -- the athletic department is keeping the place secret until then. The first to reach this undisclosed location will get the first choice of seats at the Palestra on Saturday night."

http://www.dailypennsylvanian.com/vnews/display.v/ART/3db505f5d814a

check out today's sun online - definitely an enjoyable read!!! note - there are 4 or 5 articles on the line and the chaos. apparently many people are now realizing that Gene's excessive gel use has affected what brain cells he has.:-P

"From everything I've heard, the kids here have been pretty pleased with the process," said Nighman.
::rolleyes::

I'm quite interested in responding to each of these articles, though for different reasons.  I'm sure others will do the same.

QuoteAl DeFlorio wrote:

"From everything I've heard, the kids here have been pretty pleased with the process," said Nighman.
::rolleyes::

Better get to your office then and check the old email machine, Gene...

Holy.  Crap.

I don't even know what to say, since I wasn't even there, but it really sounds like most of you guys got screwed... hard.  All I can do is hope that you all somehow get into that rink for every home game and show these face-timers how to be true fans.  Sadly, it apears that this abomination will be used primarily to build support for a new rink, while the greater problem will still be ignored.

One great year and athletics is trying to turn us into BU West...   ::yark::

There's a key point being forgotten by some people arguing that occasional empty seats are a reason not to expand Lynah or build a bigger rink.  The fact is that ALL the empty seats are already paid for.  If you choose not to use your tickets, shame on you, but Athletics has already collected your money.  Could Cornell pre-sell another 1,000 or so more seats to townies or students?  Absolutely.  

Sure, some games will still have no-shows....that's a fact of life when it's February, and cold outside, and mid-terms are approaching, and lowly Vermont (etc.) is in town.  But from an economic point of view, it simply doesn't matter.  Athletics can SELL the extra tickets because of market demands and this should be the most important point in favor of expanding the rink or building a new one.

I went to the ticket office a few minutes before they opened at 10 this morning to inquire if there were any extra season tickets, and I was turned away.  I think they actually had a couple left, but supposedly there was some waiting list signed by ~20 people who were turned away on Friday that they are going to give priority to for these seats (another sham, considering I never saw or heard about this list being circulated).  So there is pretty much no more hope of getting student season tickets unless you were already on this list.

On the brighter side, I could see Gene in the office through the window frantically trying to check his email, and he seemed pretty on edge. ::flipb::

It would be a mistake to limit each person to one ticket.  Too many people have other things they must attend (for example, classes or, in my case one year, the LSAT in Syracuse).  "One person, one ticket" should only be a fallback if there is a serious scalping problem.

As for the line, in the late 80s, we slept outside Lynah (before the Fieldhouse was built), in a rough line, for a few days before the doors opened.  Public Safety (now the Cornell Police) maintained a list and would, fairly randomly, do line checks to make sure everyone was there.  If you weren't there, you got dropped from the list.  The last line check was usually around midnight, IIRC.  The night before the sale, they let us into Lynah, comparing our student ID to the list and as we entered, they gave us a colored ticket, corresponding to our class year.  We slept on the rink the night before the sale (I remember huddling around a radio listening to Roger McDowell of the Mets giving up a game-winning home run to Terry Pendleton of the Cardinals to finish off the Mets' chances in 1987) and then the next morning, the sale began, with seniors going first.  If you weren't inside Lynah the night before, you could not "cut" and had to wait until the freshman chose their seats.

There was no official "line up" time; instead, there was just a time when you would be let into Lynah, for the night, and given your number.  Everyone "knew", however, that Public Safety would keep a line list while you camped outside.  Yes, many people missed class, but order was fairly well maintained.  Also, the line checks were spaced out long enough, that once a check was made, you faced the decision of actually having the opportunity to go to class (or go home for a shower).

OK. So, after exchanging e-mails with the coach on this year's line fiasco, I've been asked to compose a formal letter stating what was wrong with this year's procedure and make suggestions on how to fix it. Since I wasn't there I am hoping you all can help me out by providing me with details on what else (aside from what has already been mentioned in this thread) was problematic and perhaps giving me your best idea on how to remedy the situation for years to come. Any imput would be appreciated. As a third party I am hoping that I can write it from a less emotional standpoint than those who followed procedure and as a result came out emptyhanded.

Did I read that correctly. . ."less emotional?";-)

The letter idea sounds like a productive idea but it might be nice to start a new thread for that topic
b/c this one is getting quite long. :-}

I'd like to add my 2 cents. Athletics complains about having to pay for extended police enforcement, but they hire a band to play on Friday night? Did anyone ask for a band? Did anyone really want them there? Just annoying, if you asked me. Maybe next year they can have a massage table, too.

And speaking of making the process easier, if they insist on sticking with this inane system, why not just extend it over three weekends and assign line numbers immediately? I would think most people wouldn't go for all three, just a few hardcore people. You could probably get away with one person keeping things in order and doing line checks for the first weekend, maybe a few more for the second, and a full staff for the third. That way, there would be more gradual growth in the line, no massive original rush, and no one needs to miss any class. Oh, and make them camp outside.

If not, next year people show show up with bats and beat the crap out of people who try to cut in line. When a bunch of people show up in the hospital, athletics will be forced to maintain order properly. ::rolleyes::

QuoteCornell Fan wrote:

I went to the ticket office a few minutes before they opened at 10 this morning to inquire if there were any extra season tickets, and I was turned away. I think they actually had a couple left, but supposedly there was some waiting list signed by ~20 people who were turned away on Friday that they are going to give priority to for these seats (another sham, considering I never saw or heard about this list being circulated).

Actually, I think this is where Athletics actually did something right this past weekend.  As I've already stated to death here, I was in the last group of people to get tickets, rounding out at #800.  For as pissed off as we were at the time, the group of people immediately following us were really pissed, but luckily they turned that anger into a desperate hope for tickets, or at least line numbers.  Athletics had no little slips of paper with numbers over 800, of course, but when my group finally got our 'real' numbers (that is, the big pieces of paper with all the necessary student info), the group behind us got an Athletics staffperson to take down their signatures to effectively be #801, #802, etc.  While it is true that these people didn't camp out all Saturday, they did at least stay in line until Friday 9PM or so (I believe that was when my group finally went into the Ramin Room).  So if we have to go by the line (whether or not you consider the line itself to be legit is irrelevant, now), then they are the people who should get the last batch of tickets.  If there are still more tickets after that, though...I don't know what to do with those.

QuoteCowbell Guy wrote:

I'd like to add my 2 cents. Athletics complains about having to pay for extended police enforcement, but they hire a band to play on Friday night? Did anyone ask for a band? Did anyone really want them there? Just annoying, if you asked me. Maybe next year they can have a massage table, too.

Yeah, I agree.  The band was annoying, and I didn't even have to put up with them for long since I got into the Ramin Room late relative to, well, just about everyone.  Of course, maybe the band played for free there, perhaps in an effort to garner fans or advertise for a show or something.  (To be honest, I didn't pay much attention to them, so I don't know if they were advertising for anything.)  But, if the band did indeed get paid, screw that and put that money towards hiring more peacekeepers, whoever they may be (cops, Athletics staff, whatever).

point taken Ben - you smartass! ;-)

i think the reason he asked me to do it was because he felt I was too sarcastic (toward the AD) and too emotional the first time around ... which i grudgingly admit was the case. he recommended a formal letter with suggestions for change. as i've calmed down i think that this is possible. ben was right about the length of this thread. will start a new one.

stop complaining.  if you care so much about tickets you would have shown up thursday night or friday morning and skipped all of your friday classes.  thats what it takes to get good seats, especially after a year like last.  if you are not willing to make a personal sacrifice, then you don't deserve tickets.  for those seniors who are complaining about the line forming before 4:45, i'm sorry, you should have known better after 4 years.   it never works out how they say it will.  but it is always the case that the people who care the most and put in the most sacrifice end up with the most coveted tickets.

Quotessd'05 wrote:

stop complaining.  if you care so much about tickets you would have shown up thursday night or friday morning and skipped all of your friday classes.  thats what it takes to get good seats, especially after a year like last.  if you are not willing to make a personal sacrifice, then you don't deserve tickets.  for those seniors who are complaining about the line forming before 4:45, i'm sorry, you should have known better after 4 years.   it never works out how they say it will.  but it is always the case that the people who care the most and put in the most sacrifice end up with the most coveted tickets.

Seriously, ssd.  There is no way that is true.  The reports of rampant cutting, not to mention the bad faith on the part of the university, makes the gripes of those that followed the rules legit.  Especially in light of the early evidence of ticket scalping (are the scalpers really the most dedicated fans?).

Of course ssd is right that the university's failures were predictable and should have been planned for.  It isn't so much "blame the victim" (as Cornell and those who cut (rather than anticipated Cornell's failings and arrived early) are still the primary malefactors), but more about "those who don't learn from history. . ."



Post Edited (09-15-03 16:49)

Listen, every time the cops broke up the line, they said the same thing. "If we see you back here again before 4:45 on Friday, we're going to take your ID, JA you if you don't have one, and won't let you get tickets." So people that were in line on Thursday and didn't come back until the cops said to got completely screwed. So bite me, ssd.

For those of you who got screwed, I thought I might offer some suggestions from my time on the hill on how to get to see some games without season tickets.  Some have been mentioned here already.

1: Buy tix in Section O from other schools.
2: Buy from Scalpers outside the rink.
3: Go on a road trip.  Many other schools don't sell out their rinks, so you may be able to get to see the team play there.  Just as Cornell sends tickets for Section O to other schools, you can usually buy tickets for away games right at the Cornell ticket office.  You won't get the real Lynah experience, except perhaps at Bright, but sometimes it can be just as much fun to be one of a dozen or so hard-core faithful who show up to watch the team play in Kalamazoo.
4: If you play an instrument, join the pep band.  It may not be too late to accumulate enough points by playing at other sporting events this year in order to get into at least some hockey games.
5: If you're a member of some other group group, try contacting the Hockey Boosters and see about having your group volunteer to sell 50/50 raffle tickets.  You'll need to show up well before game time, and you'll probably miss the first few minutes of the action, but at least you'll be in.

Don't forget the eLynah ticket exchange ("Ticket Exchange" link at left)!

Or, if you're feeling particularly bold, you can always hack the Athletics database, download a list of ticketholders, hunt them down, kill them, and take their tickets.  ::screwy:: But if you do that, uh, stay away from section G, please? ;-)

Quotessd'05 wrote:

stop complaining.  if you care so much about tickets you would have shown up thursday night or friday morning and skipped all of your friday classes.
...
if you are not willing to make a personal sacrifice, then you don't deserve tickets.

Absolutely NOT true. I care a lot about tickets and I would have been willing to line up a day or two ahead of time to get them.  I, like many other very rabid faithful who ended up not getting tickets, made the mistake of believing athletics when they said in the official procedure flyer and were quoted in the newspaper as saying they were going to crack down on people showing up early, and if you did, you would lose your ability to buy any tickets altogether.  So you can go fuck yourself and your "personal sacrifice."  ::asshole::

Quotessd'05 wrote:
but it is always the case that the people who care the most and put in the most sacrifice end up with the most coveted tickets.

Or, some people put in a degree of sacrifice, and then let 30+ of their buddies cut in front of them 30 minutes before line numbers are handed out, and one day after the whole process is over section B tickets are on sale on eLF...

Please, let's not turn this into the USCHO board. . .try and keep things civil. I know many of you are upset over what happened (and justifiably so) but please don't let people like ssd'05 get you going. . .you're better than that, don't lower yourself to his/her level.

Thanks

for morning entertainment check out today's sun. one of the writers shamelessly admits to cutting line while recalling his own "line" experience.

QuoteMelissa wrote:

for morning entertainment check out today's sun. one of the writers shamelessly admits to cutting line while recalling his own "line" experience.

Link: http://www.cornelldailysun.com/articles/9073/

Indeed, I just read that article.  I'm seriously considering giving these guys (there are actually two authors to the article) the Volonnino treatment right now, if you know what I mean (as evident by my sig line).

QuoteOne of the guys who got revenge on Volonnino wrote:


Indeed, I just read that article.  I'm seriously considering giving these guys (there are actually two authors to the article) the Volonnino treatment right now, if you know what I mean (as evident by my sig line).

If you do, make sure to get them on the NAMBLA and Scientology mailing lists too.

QuoteJohn E Hayes '98 '00 wrote:

QuoteOne of the guys who got revenge on Volonnino wrote:


Indeed, I just read that article.  I'm seriously considering giving these guys (there are actually two authors to the article) the Volonnino treatment right now, if you know what I mean (as evident by my sig line).

If you do, make sure to get them on the NAMBLA and Scientology mailing lists too.

Unfortunately, that means putting the NAMBLA site into my cache.  No matter; I'll make that sacrifice for the team. :-)

 If hockey is going to be the marquee sport at Cornell, then it seems time to consider ways not to put the student body through this kind of trauma every year.  It's time to expand or replace Lynah.  Let's bite the bullet.  I've heard the arguments about intimacy and atmosphere, but anyone with these kinds of doubts about what a larger rink would do to the hockey experience at Cornell should take a road trip to Ann Arbor this season and take in a game at Yost.  Same cheers, same noise - if not more! - and same enthusiasm.  If Cornell can provide state-of-the art facilities for other sports like wrestling, the university should see the handwriting on the wall on this one and do justice to this sport, the team, and its supporters.

QuoteNinian wrote:

 If hockey is going to be the marquee sport at Cornell,

If?

QuoteNinian wrote:

I've heard the arguments about intimacy and atmosphere, but anyone with these kinds of doubts about what a larger rink would do to the hockey experience at Cornell should take a road trip to Ann Arbor this season and take in a game at Yost.

Isn't Michigan also twice the size of Cornell by population?  I mean, this past weekend proves that perhaps this year could support a new, larger rink, but I know for a fact that over the past few years, there haven't been that many people.  A good amount, yes, but probably not much more than being able to fill Lynah to just beyond capacity.  If Cornell could become a perennial powerhouse (which I think we all would agree would be fantastic), maybe it'd be feasible, but I'm a realist and I have my doubts.

Dear eLynah Forum members:

Let me respond to accusations concering the "line cutting" mentioned in my article today in the Daily Sun. I do not think that we "bragged" about cutting the line in the article at all. In fact, we already had people waiting on line and we simply switched places with them. When most people went home on Friday night, we were among the few who stayed over in the Ramin Room

I have had season tickets since I was a freshmen. Two years ago, we slept overnight in front of Bartels Hall. When the doors were opened early in the morning, we lost several hundred spots in line because we were not awake yet. While we did not have the best seats, we went to every game  and were probably the loudest fans in section E. Mike in fact got kicked out of the 2002 Harvard game for cursing loudly at Harvard's Kenny Smith.

I have been to nearly every home game the past two years, and went to Buffalo for the Frozen Four in April. My mom camped out for tickets when she was a student at Cornell, so I already knew about the passion that Cornellians have for hockey before I even applied.

Don't accuse me of being a "facetimer" just because you think I "cut" the line. I don't appreciate being insulted and threatened.

I'm sorry if some of you didn't get tickets this season. Hopefully the Athletic Department will be able to remedy the situation before next year's line.

Sincerely,

Jon Auerbach '05

For me it's not that you cut the line.  It's that you made fun of those people who tried to police the line.  You called them idiots more than once, and nerds for thrying to keep cutters out.  It actually felt like you were encouraging people to cut the line in the future.  You weren't solving the problem, you were just making it worse.

And more importantly, it was tremendously disrespectful to those students who spent their valuable time trying to get a good seat.  Just like you, they don't appreciate being insulted, especially in a much more open, and less hockey literate forum as the Sun.  You may not be a facetimer, but if it walks like a duck....

I think you owe people an apology for how you treated them.

JH

Pardon me, Jon, but how is switching places with someone (i.e., someone who has actually been waiting) different from cutting?  

So you go to a lot of games?  Scream loud?  Congratulations.  You aren't a facetimer.  Just a jerk.

Well said Jeff.

Jon, I have a question for you, related to the alleged cutting.  Did each of the five people in your group that was mentioned (you, your friend Will, his brother Charles, Mike, and Cathy) receive a line number, and do each of you intend on making it to every game that you can this season?  Because if the article as you wrote it is 100% factual, then at least one person in your group cut the line.  As I count, the 'original' people there (that is, the people present in the line from your group before you got there) were Will and Charles.  You get there, presumedly alone, and as you said in your above post, you switched places with one of them.  For the sake of argument, let's say you switched with Charles, and Charles goes home.  So there are still two of you there, and it's still valid.  Then two more from your group, Mike and Cathy, show.  Let's say Mike switches with Will, and Mike goes home.  Where does Cathy go exactly?  By my estimation, unless you neglected to mention a member of your group who was there with the original people, one of you is cutting the line.  Is that why she was accosted?  Or was she the one who tried to switch in, while "Mike [snuck] under the rope" (by your own account of what happened)?  Or is there another explanation, like two from your group are sharing one ticket (perhaps one of them is going abroad next semester and is giving his/her tickets to the other person)?  I just want to know what the situation was.

I agree with Jeff.  To paraphrase part of my letter to the Sun editor that I just sent about your article: the kid with the rope who made the plea to the line stuck his neck out and tried to do the right thing, you publicly belittled him, and the Sun for some unfathomable reason publishes your piece --that's disgusting.

As far as the people "policing" the line are concerned...they WERE idiots...

It was plain to see that the very people who were trying to "police" the line, were also the ones letting in friend after friend in the front of the line. The front of the line doubled in width after people succumbed to these guys' speeches. I noticed it, my friends noticed it, but what were we to do. They had already brainwashed most of the crowd. If there is one set of people to blame for everyone moving back about 150 spots in line from 2:00-4:00, its them.

(This is not to say that the athletic department is not the most to blame, just that these guys clearly had a plan.)

To me, it was refreshing to see someone finally make fun of them for their ridiculous speeches. I really wanted to respond on friday but I didn't want to start a riot.

Either way, I got section D when I probably should have had section B, but ticket purchasing is over, and I am looking forwared to a fun, exciting season at Lynah.

LETS GO RED!!!

My name is Mike (obviously from the username) and our group was directly in front of the Sun writer's group. I was, in fact, the one who chased the list stealer and also helped police the line all goddamn day. And now all I'm getting is shit for it.

I don't know for certain if Jon and his friends cut the line, and indeed they may not have, as i saw someone in a tie dyed shirt in that group obviously step out of line so that someone in a dress shirt could switch with him. The tie dyed shirt guy left in a 1:1 switch. Additionally, while I don't know if the Sun writer's group cut at all, I do know that there were several people who split our group up, between our last number at 49 and the next guy at 70. Some girls, for instance, were sitting by the line and claimed they were going to switch with someone, though they never did, and joined the line when it moved. This is what, I'm sure, happened along the entire line.

Now, if you want to say that cutters didn't have to respect the line because it was unofficial, go right ahead. But if you "sneak" under, that's hardly a vigorous attack on the line itself-- it's the same as the guys who stole our list- if they felt the list was so meaningless, why did it need to be taken?

I agree with Jeff's point whole heartedly. You may not have broken the rules, and you probably do care very much about Cornell hockey. However, your article unnecessarily berrated those who were trying to keep some semblance of order. I, in "last year's Faithful shirt and pants" did not think that people had to listen to me because I had been there last year (or the year before, or the year before, or the year before.) I did HOPE that people listened to me, because every cutter we stopped held the integrity of the places in line for all those behind them. If Athletics or CUPD weren't going to help us police the line, responsible students like myself made every attempt to get people in a single-file line, behaving in an orderly manner, so that there was fewer cutting and so we gave the police no excuses to disband the 500 or so people who had showed up by 3PM.

If you make fun of people roping off the area, pressuring cutters, maybe you don't remember your experience two years ago that well. One kid, who we dubbed the "Enforcer" stayed up all night policing the line while frat boys let dozens of their friends in, and I saw him toss nearly hundreds out (or to the back) between 6PM and 7AM. So if it wasn't for him, maybe you would never have had a seat.

So maybe you're a real great fan. Maybe you're a real nice guy. But all I get from your article is that you're too good for the process, and for those who tried to make the best of the situation.

-Mike Rosenberg, 4 yr lynah faithful, '04

In response to "Let's Go Red,"

-If you got tickets in D, you were probably #300 (ultimately) or so? You certainly benefitted from us preventing people in front of you cutting. Maybe the more accurate statement is, "You got tickets in D, should have been in F."

-As to the "they were the ones who let people in," an individual at the back of the fence counted very early in the day, when the line had just formed, and there were 230 people lined up on just the 1 side of the fence. From the front of the line to the back of our group, there were 48 people. When we got our numbers at 4:45, the last member of our group was 49. If cutting occurred "up front," it didn't occur there.

-The front was not single file-- people at the back refused to move back more so that we could be single file.

-I had nothing to gain from helping around the line. Not a damn thing. Our entire group, and a friend's group behind us WANTED AND RECEIVED TICKETS IN SECTION A. Last year, I was #209 and got the same seats I did this year at #38. Between our groups, there were 55 people, all who have a very large block on the aisle in A. So it's not like I was driven by a concern for my seats here. What I was trying to do was to prevent cutting and mass pandemonium which could have ensued at 4:45 if there were 800-2,000 people milling around. Agree with the line forming early or not, it became obvious by 3PM that they weren't going to disperse people who were, more or less, orderly. I'm not asking anyone to kiss my ass for helping out, but don't be a prick. If you didn't like all the free help, which got you a higher number than you would have had if no one policed, keep you damn mouth shut.

-Mike

Post Edited (09-16-03 17:34)

I'd like to stand up for Mike.  Don't call the "line police" idiots or accuse them of letting people into the line.  Belive it or not, the front of the line was policed exceptionally well.  I'm sure line cutting happened somewhere, but it certainly did not happen within the first 50 people.  If it wasn't for that rope and a few students telling several people to get lost, many of you would have much worse tickets.  They did what they could, and what they felt had to be done to maintain order.  Its a shame that nobody was responsible enough to do the same where, supposedly, one person held spots for 30.  That should never happen, and may not have happened if that portion of the line was policed by a few students.  Thanks Mike (and anyone else who policed).

Let me preface this by saying that you have no idea who was in our group at all.  Our group was represented by 5 people over night, but there were 10 people in the group overall.  The other five were not mentioned because we didn't spend most of the time with them.  These were the people with whom we switched at around 3:00.

The article was intended to be funny, and to make light of a situation that many people take all too seriously.  While the people policing the line had good intentions, I still watched several people walk right past the rope well after it was up.  In addition, several people who were friends with those who were supposed to be preventing others from sneaking under came right in with no flak.  When I was first on line (which, by the way, was around noon, although I'm sure you assumed that the first time I came was when the article said I did), I estimated that we were about numbers 30-40.  Somehow we ended up with numbers 50-54.  I'm not complaining because those line numbers are great, but clearly some of our line gods who are so quick to preserve their own spots were a little hypocritical.

In conclusion, you don't know the whole story, and I'm frankly tired of responding to comments about this.  The article was supposed to be funny.  If you don't think it was, good, because we had to edit out all the amusing parts (which you probably would have found much more offensive).  In addition, to all you preaching to have this awesome amount of hockey knowledge, I'll have you know that I've been playing since I was 8, and watching since I was 6.  So please don't make assumptions if you don't know the whole story.

Let me just end this by saying that we are all Cornellians and all big hockey fans.  It's ridiculous for us to fight about this garbage considering that it's already over.  We have much bigger problems considering we just lost several critical members of the great team we had last year.

-Mike Pandolfini '05

Bravo.  Let that be a lesson to the alumni who knew absolutely nothing about the ticket procedure and are relying completely on hearsay.

QuoteLet me preface this by saying that you have no idea who was in our group at all. Our group was represented by 5 people over night, but there were 10 people in the group overall. The other five were not mentioned because we didn't spend most of the time with them. These were the people with whom we switched at around 3:00.

Fantastic.  So long as there were five or more people for five or more line numbers at any given time, that's great.  Glad to have that cleared up.

QuoteWhen I was first on line (which, by the way, was around noon, although I'm sure you assumed that the first time I came was when the article said I did)

So long as you had the minimum number of people there at all times to obtain the appropriate amount of line numbers, I don't really care when you yourself first arrived.  Although, now that you mention it, I'm starting to wonder why that particular detail wasn't mentioned in the article, since it would seem to be a part of the total experience.  Was it cut out by the editor?

Hi,

I think that people don't realize that this article was completely harmless.

I was in line and the self-proclaimed leaders did much more harm than good and deserve any criticism they received. It seemed to me that they had only selfish reasons to police the line. They did nothing admirable and I found them to be pretty abnoxious.

I think this issue is over because the tickets are sold. Everyone should now focus the energy they've been spending talking about tickets and use it to root for the team.

Mike Pandolfini said:[Q]So please don't make assumptions if you don't know the whole story.[/Q] But aren't you the reporter? So, if we don't know the whole story, why didn't you write it? Don't get mad at us for writing about what you wrote, and not knowing what you didn't write.

Give these silly sun writers the volonnino treatment.  My services are hereby volunteered for such a mission.  Awaiting orders.

(http://www.john-hayes.com/misc/argue.jpg)



Post Edited (09-17-03 06:29)

QuoteGive these silly sun writers the volonnino treatment. My services are hereby volunteered for such a mission. Awaiting orders.

Heh...as I've said before, I'm tempted.  But at least these guys had the balls to answer their accusers (namely, us) on this Forum, thereby saving me the trouble of having to write out a full letter to the editor.  Let's save our efforts for writers of other schools' publications who don't give Cornell the respect it deserves.  The order is NOT given, I repeat, NOT given. :-)

just wanted to point u guys to a new article. pretty amusing :)
http://www.cornelldailysun.com/articles/9081/

Quotejy3 wrote:

just wanted to point u guys to a new article. pretty amusing :)
http://www.cornelldailysun.com/articles/9081/

Yeah, that was great. Dripping with sarcasm, and it was quite evident from the beginning.

And don't forget to mention who I suspect is our own Jason N. '95's letter to the editor: http://www.cornelldailysun.com/articles/9086/

Don't know if it will be published, but I sent this to the Sun.  On reflection, the closing line is awful and hackneyed.  But I have already hit "send":

I have been amazed at the lack of serious coverage given to the ticket line by the Cornell Daily Sun.  There has been no examination of (1) whether the University acted reasonably (Were the rules accurately announced? Fairly enforced? Was adequate staff on hand?); (2) the students behaved appropriately (Did students cut? Push? Otherwise cheat?); and whether the process can be improved in the future.  If you are going to put out a newspaper, put out a serious newspaper.  

The ethos of the student opinion column is generally "smart ass," and that isn't necessarily a bad thing, but the collection of "humor" pieces (ranging from the appalling to the merely lame) did nothing to explain if or how the ticket line worked as intended.   The writers and editors had the  opportunity to really examine the school around them and offer criticism and suggestions for change by doing some actual reporting of events beyond merely reciting the 5 w's. And they chose not to.  

Smart ass can be good, but you should really aim for more "smart" and less "ass".

Charles D. Star
ILR '92 CIPA '94



Post Edited (09-17-03 10:33)

All good points.  U of M is almost twice as large as Cornell, the town is larger, and it's near a large metropolitan area.  But there's more to it than that.  I go back a long way, was an undergrad at Cornell, grad at Michigan and arrived in Ann Arbor in 72, when Cornell still was in the post-Harkness afterglow and Michigan was simply awful.  They played at a rink smaller than Lynah, had an all-American goalie but limited talent at other positions, and a small, loyal, and long-suffering base of fans.  The university decided that they needed to make a commitment to the program, hired a young, gifted coach (Dan Farrell) and renovated an old field house that was vacant due to the departure of basketball to larger, more modern quarters.  The university took a risk by committing these kinds of resources to a struggling program.  It took about one season before the place was packed and jumping.  No one really expected this kind of result, particularly at a place where two other major sports had overshadowed hockey.

This is kind of a long-winded way to make the "Build it and they will come" argument.  Except for the more limited population, everything at Cornell is more favorable than it was at Michigan at the time Yost opened.  Bigger fan base among students and townsfolk, which current capacity can't satisfy, less competition from other sports, much stronger program with a great future.   Yost capacity has varied between 6-7K over the years.  New or expanded rink would not need to be that large and probably shouldn't be.  Bottom line is that there isn't anything more exciting to do in Ithaca on a Friday or Saturday night.  I think the odds that a larger rink would be successful are very favorable.

Yeah, that's my letter. Upon reflection, it comes across a little too dramatic particularly in its condensed form (I told the editors that they could do that, so I have no complaints). I think what disappoints me the most is that people --from the same community and with the same interests even-- cannot be entrusted with treating each other fairly and must be policed.  Maybe there's a little romanticizing involved, but when the older posters describe the camp outs for tickets its sounds like civility and fairness generally prevailed.



Post Edited (09-17-03 10:57)

My reaction exactly, Charles.   Well said.  I think the question is:  Is the Sun supposed to be a newspaper or some kind of lame humor mag?

I'd guess it's a lot easier for those (in this case, the writers) who came away from the fiasco with tickets to treat the situation as some kind of lark.

There was a long discussion during last season about the merits of replacing or significantly renovating Lynah.  The discussion ultimately settled around whether such a rink would have the same atmosphere because of its size - not just from adding seats but from bringing it up to current fire code.  Imagine rows further apart and at a less steep pitch.  Adding rows means a much higher roof.

I've never been to Yost so perhaps so I don't know how it scores on the intimacy (noise) scale or what the fire code in Michigan was like in the 1970s.

Quotebig red apple wrote:

more "smart" and less "ass".

I dunno, I think the world would be a better place if everyone got a little more ass...

*rimshot*

double entendre with the "rimshot"

*rimshot*  

I just caught up with this thread...lordy, glad I missed it.  The Special Olympics thing...classic...not PC...  ::twak::  but classic

Oh Me,

I thought locusts and boils were bad enough, but you fellows want to subscribe people to pornographic email. Truly you are on the same plane as I, or surely would like to think so.

Oh, but I see you will spare these poor souls because they give Cornell the respect it deserves... or more appropriately the respect you think you deserve.

You get one guy to egg you on, and you think you're the friggin Lord. Once again, it's apparent to anyone not embroilled in this nonsense -- a pointless pissing contest that will be forgotten until next year. Again.

And from now on, stop playing with yourself.

^ ::rolleyes::

In case you hadn't noticed, I'm not doing it now.  And as for the future, if I choose to do it, then I'll do it alone if need be.  It may be a pointless pissing contest, but it'll be my pointless pissing contest.

I've said this like 15 billion times before but...

I think expanding lynah would mean making the seats go all the way around and NOT raising the roof. There's a small parking lot there which is easily removeable... I don't feel the atmosphere would suffer at all, and overall you wouldn't really get so many more seats that Lynah would feel empty in down years.

Felix said:[Q]I've said this like 15 billion times before but...

I think expanding lynah would mean making the seats go all the way around and NOT raising the roof. There's a small parking lot there which is easily removeable... I don't feel the atmosphere would suffer at all, and overall you wouldn't really get so many more seats that Lynah would feel empty in down years.[/Q]If so I've said this 15 billion +1 times before... ::nut::

The U and CHA have had a plan to expand for a number of years. There is a problem, which does involve the possible change in the Lynah feeling. As some have said, enclosing the open end has been thought of, but the problem is bringing it up to code if you do a major renovation. If that were needed then you could not have the close seating that is present. So then you might have to raise the roof, etc..

It's not easy, and I suggest all that think it is, do a search here about past discussions.

The alleged final article from the Sun on the hockey line debacle: http://www.cornelldailysun.com/articles/9147/

At least he agrees with us about the linecutting, though he mocks us a bit in other respects.

Gene's job is to solely to sell out Lynah Rink??

Couldn't they just hire a monkey to dance around in the office?  Lynah would still sell out, and it would be a much lower cost for payroll...

QuoteJordan wrote:

Gene's job is to solely to sell out Lynah Rink??

Couldn't they just hire a monkey to dance around in the office?  Lynah would still sell out, and it would be a much lower cost for payroll...

Exactly.  Gene had as much to do with a student ticket sell-out as Jordan and me.  Maybe even less than Jordan, if he managed to buy a ticket.

The Sun blew its last chance for credibility.

They could hire this guy, he'd do as good a job probably:

(http://www.planet-familyguy.com/info/pics1/evilmonkey.jpg)

I suspect there'd have been less line-cutting. ::nut::

Alright...who let the evil monkey out of Chris Griffin's closet?

QuoteRich H '96 wrote:

Alright...who let the evil monkey out of Chris Griffin's closet?

The sad part is, he wasn't always evil...

Check out the following two links.  Size is not a problem:

http://www-personal.umich.edu/~cdbarker/chants.html

You'll recognize a few! :-)

http://www.mgoblue.com/document_display.cfm?document_id=3059