I suppose we can start off this thread with today's announcement of Colgate's new head coach. That leaves Schafer as the longest tenured head coach in the conference I think
Quote from: IcebergI suppose we can start off this thread with today's announcement of Colgate's new head coach. That leaves Schafer as the longest tenured head coach in the conference I think
Harder (https://www.collegehockeynews.com/news/2023/06/02_Harder-Named-New-Coach-at.php) to put the link in?
Quote from: IcebergI suppose we can start off this thread with today's announcement of Colgate's new head coach. That leaves Schafer as the longest tenured head coach in the conference I think
Colgate alum and former assistant coach Mike Harder '97 https://colgateathletics.com/news/2023/6/2/mens-ice-hockey-mike-harder-97-named-head-mens-hockey-coach.aspx
They can yell "HARDER!" again, that's nice.
Quote from: TrotskyThey can yell "HARDER!" again, that's nice.
Was he playing around the time "We want Weder" became a thing or am I off by a few years?
Quote from: IcebergQuote from: TrotskyThey can yell "HARDER!" again, that's nice.
Was he playing around the time "We want Weder" became a thing or am I off by a few years?
He's Colgate class of '97, and the Weder series was March '96.
I certainly remember shouting "Hit Harder harder!" Amazing he's still Colgate's leading career scorer, considering 1) that was the era of lowest offense in modern hockey, and 2) they've had players the caliber of Andy MacDonald come through since.
Edit: 214 points. Damn, he was really good.
Quote from: IcebergI suppose we can start off this thread with today's announcement of Colgate's new head coach. That leaves Schafer as the longest tenured head coach in the conference I think
Schafer is in fact the ECAC's longest tenured head coach. Pecknold was hired at Quinnipiac in 1994, one year before Schafer's tenure began, but Q didn't join the ECAC until 2005.
Quote from: RichHQuote from: IcebergQuote from: TrotskyThey can yell "HARDER!" again, that's nice.
Was he playing around the time "We want Weder" became a thing or am I off by a few years?
He's Colgate class of '97, and the Weder series was March '96.
I certainly remember shouting "Hit Harder harder!" Amazing he's still Colgate's leading career scorer, considering 1) that was the era of lowest offense in modern hockey, and 2) they've had players the caliber of Andy MacDonald come through since.
Edit: 214 points. Damn, he was really good.
That's not the Harder chant that I remember.... The one that I recall was "F me harder"
The chant I remember was a sizeable group of Colgate coeds at Starr chanting "Harder! Harder!" with appropriate intonation. One of the best chants I have ever heard, by any crowd.
Quote from: TrotskyThe chant I remember was a sizeable group of Colgate coeds at Starr chanting "Harder! Harder!" with appropriate intonation. One of the best chants I have ever heard, by any crowd.
I remember Shep Harder, who played goalie for Colgate around the same time, whacking his stick on the ice at the end of a penalty, and several of us shouting "Harder! Whack it harder!" (Actually that might have been at the Colgate-Clarkson game during a North Country weekend when their game was in the afternoon, and Cornell-SLU in the evening...)
Shep also picked up a fighting major at Lynah in 2000.
Quote from: Chris '03Shep also picked up a fighting major at Lynah in 2000.
Model citizen.
Quote from: Chris '03Shep also picked up a fighting major at Lynah in 2000.
And a double-DQ, IIRC, since he skated the length of the ice to fight with our goalie (Ian Burt?)
Quote from: jtwcornell91Quote from: Chris '03Shep also picked up a fighting major at Lynah in 2000.
And a double-DQ, IIRC, since he skated the length of the ice to fight with our goalie (Ian Burt?)
That was Union's Leeor Shtrom in 1998.
How do you people remember this stuff? I am not sure what I had for breakfast this morning. **]
Quote from: dag14How do you people remember this stuff? I am not sure what I had for breakfast this morning. **]
I covered that game as a student and the postgame interviews (not so much the fight itself) have always stuck in my brain. Burt's version was that he declined an offer to fight and that prompted Shtrom to say something along the lines of "Well, let's go then." (Too lazy to look up the story but it probably still exists somewhere online, though it is assuredly some mediocre writing.)
Quote from: WederQuote from: dag14How do you people remember this stuff? I am not sure what I had for breakfast this morning. **]
I covered that game as a student and the postgame interviews (not so much the fight itself) have always stuck in my brain. Burt's version was that he declined an offer to fight and that prompted Shtrom to say something along the lines of "Well, let's go then." (Too lazy to look up the story but it probably still exists somewhere online, though it is assuredly some mediocre writing.)
The 1998 Suns aren't digitized, but the Ithaca Journal report is here: https://www.newspapers.com/article/the-ithaca-journal/125932876/
Quote from: dag14How do you people remember this stuff? I am not sure what I had for breakfast this morning. **]
Well, it helps to have seen the absurdity in person. But once you read Bill's summary from the late, lamented Hockey-L, you'll remember it forever, too.
Quote from: Give My Regards"...suffice it to say that the next time somebody asks me what I consider to be the height of stupidity, I'll have an answer ready: five feet ten inches, because according to the game program, that's how tall Leeor Shtrom is."
Full summary:
https://lists.maine.edu/cgi-bin/wa?A3=9812&L=HOCKEY-L&E=0&P=112370&B=--&T=text%2Fplain;%20charset=us-ascii&header=1
Quote from: BeeeejQuote from: jtwcornell91Quote from: Chris '03Shep also picked up a fighting major at Lynah in 2000.
And a double-DQ, IIRC, since he skated the length of the ice to fight with our goalie (Ian Burt?)
That was Union's Leeor Shtrom in 1998.
Oh, right. We seem to have had a lot of goalie fights back then.
Quote from: dag14How do you people remember this stuff? I am not sure what I had for breakfast this morning. **]
Well, I was just reflecting on the fact that current undergrads were not born when all this happened. ::wow::
Quote from: BeeeejQuote from: dag14How do you people remember this stuff? I am not sure what I had for breakfast this morning. **]
Well, it helps to have seen the absurdity in person. But once you read Bill's summary from the late, lamented Hockey-L, you'll remember it forever, too.
Quote from: Give My Regards"...suffice it to say that the next time somebody asks me what I consider to be the height of stupidity, I'll have an answer ready: five feet ten inches, because according to the game program, that's how tall Leeor Shtrom is."
Full summary:
https://lists.maine.edu/cgi-bin/wa?A3=9812&L=HOCKEY-L&E=0&P=112370&B=--&T=text%2Fplain;%20charset=us-ascii&header=1
I rarely missed a game between 1969 and 2018 except for 3 years in law school in the mid-70's so I quite likely DID witness the antics in person. I do vividly recall Randy Wilson's missed open net and defenseman Robbie Gemmel's goal scored from the crease in a game decades earlier, however. I guess my memory is selective....
Quote from: dag14Quote from: BeeeejQuote from: dag14How do you people remember this stuff? I am not sure what I had for breakfast this morning. **]
Well, it helps to have seen the absurdity in person. But once you read Bill's summary from the late, lamented Hockey-L, you'll remember it forever, too.
Quote from: Give My Regards"...suffice it to say that the next time somebody asks me what I consider to be the height of stupidity, I'll have an answer ready: five feet ten inches, because according to the game program, that's how tall Leeor Shtrom is."
Full summary:
https://lists.maine.edu/cgi-bin/wa?A3=9812&L=HOCKEY-L&E=0&P=112370&B=--&T=text%2Fplain;%20charset=us-ascii&header=1
I rarely missed a game between 1969 and 2018 except for 3 years in law school in the mid-70's so I quite likely DID witness the antics in person. I do vividly recall Randy Wilson's missed open net and defenseman Robbie Gemmel's goal scored from the crease in a game decades earlier, however. I guess my memory is selective....
One of the best parts of life is trading memories. If I remembered what my friends do and vice versa, my world would be a sad place.
All of us except Marilu Henner have selective memory. Yippee!
Quote from: dag14How do you people remember this stuff? I am not sure what I had for breakfast this morning. **]
Like Italian (or Irish, pick one) Alzheimer's: You forget everything but the grudge.
Quote from: dag14Quote from: BeeeejQuote from: dag14How do you people remember this stuff? I am not sure what I had for breakfast this morning. **]
Well, it helps to have seen the absurdity in person. But once you read Bill's summary from the late, lamented Hockey-L, you'll remember it forever, too.
Quote from: Give My Regards"...suffice it to say that the next time somebody asks me what I consider to be the height of stupidity, I'll have an answer ready: five feet ten inches, because according to the game program, that's how tall Leeor Shtrom is."
Full summary:
https://lists.maine.edu/cgi-bin/wa?A3=9812&L=HOCKEY-L&E=0&P=112370&B=--&T=text%2Fplain;%20charset=us-ascii&header=1
I rarely missed a game between 1969 and 2018 except for 3 years in law school in the mid-70's so I quite likely DID witness the antics in person. I do vividly recall Randy Wilson's missed open net and defenseman Robbie Gemmel's goal scored from the crease in a game decades earlier, however. I guess my memory is selective....
I remember Nethery's goal tying it up. Gemmell's goal less so.
I remember Robbie's goal primarily because of where he was when he took the shot -- practically in the crease. I mean -- what was he doing there? He was a defenseman!
Mike Vecchione wins the Calder Cup. https://twitter.com/hockeydaily365/status/1671750115487363072?s=46&t=_waXTmQfZ9rEGNNzPJe2Yw
https://www.tennessean.com/story/sports/college/2023/06/28/tennessee-state-hockey-hbcu-nhl-draft-2023-nashville-predators/70364516007/
Quote from: The TennesseanTennessee State University is prepared to become the first Historically Black College and University to field a collegiate hockey team, the school revealed Wednesday ahead of the 2023 NHL Draft in Nashville.
A men's club team is planned for the '24-'25 season, moving to D-I by '26-'27, with women's team to follow.
23-24 opponent Arizona State to NCHC for 24-25. https://twitter.com/chnews/status/1676644980352229376?s=46&t=_waXTmQfZ9rEGNNzPJe2Yw
Quote from: Chris '0323-24 opponent Arizona State to NCHC for 24-25. https://twitter.com/chnews/status/1676644980352229376?s=46&t=_waXTmQfZ9rEGNNzPJe2Yw
An odd number of teams in a conference hurts my brain.
Wonder where Augustana winds up. D1 hockey in my backyard, somehow.
Edit: apparently they're CCHA.
Good for them (http://www.tbrw.info/?/ncaa_History/ncaa_Map.html).
Nacho needs another now if you're listening, Rand.
At least according to the recent SCOTUS decision, we don't have to worry about another Donato at Harvard. ::starwars::
Quote from: Roy 82At least according to the recent SCOTUS decision, we don't have to worry about another Donato at Harvard. ::starwars::
And keeping with the theme of admissions criteria, I found this piece on athletics and selective admissions to be annoyingly thought provoking. I think it unfairly singles out the Ivies, but I generally agree. While I enjoy seeing the best of the best play, it would be good to know that the athletes did not receive special treatment. That is not to say that athletic excellence doesn't demonstrate something of merit. But in many sports (e.g. hockey and lacrosse - to pick random examples :)) it favors players that come from families that can afford expensive coaching and traveling teams.
Quote from: Roy 82At least according to the recent SCOTUS decision, we don't have to worry about another Donato at Harvard. ::starwars::
why would this possibly be true? SCOTUS didn't say anything about legacies. if anything, we have to worry about too many donatos.
Quote from: ugarteQuote from: Roy 82At least according to the recent SCOTUS decision, we don't have to worry about another Donato at Harvard. ::starwars::
why would this possibly be true? SCOTUS didn't say anything about legacies. if anything, we have to worry about too many donatos.
Are we at least done with the Biegas? It's fun to yell at each one of them that they're the worst of the Biegas, but it eventually gets old.
I'm pretty sure OP was ironic. As in, SCOTUS is deeply concerned about students being admitted to universities who aren't qualified to be there... except rich ones.
It's Need Based Admissions, and we need another building.
Did the decision refer to how U of Texas does admissions? Admission is pretty much guaranteed to Texas applicants who graduate in the top 10% of their HS class. This does a lot to level the playing field for disadvantaged kids. So it boosts diversity without resorting to racial quotas.
The great majority of black and hispanic kids admitted under Harvard's approach were from the top 20% of the income distribution. A large share of the black kids, over 1/3 I believe, came from interracial or well-off foreign families. To me, Harvard's program was more designed to perpetuate a permanent, if diverse, ruling class than extend opportunity to people who have little.
One of the justices commented something like that a white student from Beverly Hills would experience more diversity encountering a white student from Appalachia than he would encountering a black student from Scarsdale, which I felt was a good point. It would certainly be more unsettling, too.
I can't see any of this effecting Cornell hockey or lacrosse except if it decided to focus more on sports black kids play, which would be futile anyway and so something they might very well do. Also, legacy admissions seems to be another matter entirely.
Quote from: ugarteQuote from: Roy 82At least according to the recent SCOTUS decision, we don't have to worry about another Donato at Harvard. ::starwars::
why would this possibly be true? SCOTUS didn't say anything about legacies. if anything, we have to worry about too many donatos.
It is my understanding that the ruling opened the door for those seeking to end legacy admissions:
https://thehill.com/homenews/education/4084026-attention-turns-to-legacy-admissions-after-affirmative-action-ruling/
But you are right that the immediate ruling does not eliminate that.
The ruling is irrelevant to legacy admissions as a matter of law. It's simply a particularly hilarious self-own by our ruling class (and many of our classmates) of their hypocrisy. It should be enjoyed and savored as one of those moments when the scenery falls away and we see the bare wall at the back of the theater.
Quote from: TrotskyThe ruling is irrelevant to legacy admissions as a matter of law. It's simply a particularly hilarious self-own by our ruling class (and many of our classmates) of their hypocrisy. It should be enjoyed and savored as one of those moments when the scenery falls away and we see the bare wall at the back of the theater.
I think the SCOTUS decided it was illegal to use "race" in admissions. Legacy admissions are de facto racially biased, but not explicitly race-based. Some "progressives" took this to imply the decision would open the door to similar lawsuits against legacy admissions. But I'm skeptical that this SCOTUS would treat de facto racism as unconstitutional, even though fair housing legislation has made de facto racism illegal (if you can prove it).
Quote from: Swampyeven though fair housing legislation has made de facto racism illegal (if you can prove it).
For now. I assume the fasc will eventually end disparate impact and force us to prove intent.
Quote from: TrotskyQuote from: Swampyeven though fair housing legislation has made de facto racism illegal (if you can prove it).
For now. I assume the fasc will eventually end disparate impact and force us to prove intent.
Oh, right. There's no such thing as structural racism.
This article say Cornell has more legacy students than black students! (Notre Dame and USc, too.)
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-66249601
It's about Wesleyan University dropping them. MIT and Johns Hopkins already have. Maybe Cornell needs the $$$ more than they do? It's bad policy and they should drop it as soon as they are able to.
The People's Ivy.
But Jesus Christ, not those people!
Cruising through Canton and Potsdam last week, there's a lot of stuff you see by day that you don't see if you pull in at 5 p.m. in winter and head right from a diner to the rink. On Route 11, across the street from the Clarkson entrance wall, there's a display of dozens, maybe a hundred, old toilets with flowers in the bowls.
According to Syracuse station WSYR (https://www.localsyr.com/news/local-news/potty-town-documentary-tells-story-of-potsdam-toilet-garden-controversy/), the line of latrines stems from a circa 2000 protest by a resident (also artist and film-maker), who felt he was treated poorly in a land transaction back then. In protest, Morgan Elliot created a protest-in-art and, and with a background in film, made a movie, "Potty Town."
Say hello to the Union College Garnet Chargers: https://dailygazette.com/2023/08/03/union-college-drops-dutchmen-rebrands-as-garnet-chargers/
Quote from: WillSay hello to the Union College Garnet Chargers: https://dailygazette.com/2023/08/03/union-college-drops-dutchmen-rebrands-as-garnet-chargers/
The one thing (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f-2uZTrcNOk&t=2s&ab_channel=DapperGent) about them that was interesting.
So stupid.
Dutchargers
Take your pick (https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Category:Dutch_ethnic_slurs), Lynah.
Edit: oh, shit, those aren't Dutch slurs, those are Dutch slurs. Don't take your pick.
Edit 2: OK. Whew. Take you pick (http://www.rsdb.org/race/dutch).
RPI has hired former BU Assistant Athletic Director Dr. Kristie Bowers as its new AD. She played soccer at Binghamton.
BTW, RPI has an advertisement out for third paid assistant coaches for both its men's and women's hockey teams as the NCAA now allows. Is Cornell also getting additional ACs?
Quote from: ursusminorRPI has hired former BU Assistant Athletic Director Dr. Kristie Bowers as its new AD. She played soccer at Binghamton.
BTW, RPI has an advertisement out for third paid assistant coaches for both its men's and women's hockey teams as the NCAA now allows. Is Cornell also getting additional ACs?
Ivies will probably take this opportunity to shoot themselves in the dick as usual. Performative Purity -- it's what's for dinner.
Quote from: ursusminorRPI has hired former BU Assistant Athletic Director Dr. Kristie Bowers as its new AD. She played soccer at Binghamton.
BTW, RPI has an advertisement out for third paid assistant coaches for both its men's and women's hockey teams as the NCAA now allows. Is Cornell also getting additional ACs?
https://rpiathletics.com/news/2023/9/14/mens-hockey-mens-hockey-tabs-karlis-zirnis-as-asst-coach.aspx
Quote from: ursusminorQuote from: ursusminorRPI has hired former BU Assistant Athletic Director Dr. Kristie Bowers as its new AD. She played soccer at Binghamton.
BTW, RPI has an advertisement out for third paid assistant coaches for both its men's and women's hockey teams as the NCAA now allows. Is Cornell also getting additional ACs?
https://rpiathletics.com/news/2023/9/14/mens-hockey-mens-hockey-tabs-karlis-zirnis-as-asst-coach.aspx
Good catch. I'll post the announcement for the assistant coaches on the seats of the "Honorary Referees" who sit near me in section 7.
Quote from: ursusminorRPI has hired former BU Assistant Athletic Director Dr. Kristie Bowers as its new AD. She played soccer at Binghamton.
BTW, RPI has an advertisement out for third paid assistant coaches for both its men's and women's hockey teams as the NCAA now allows. Is Cornell also getting additional ACs?
Cornell's four-person men's hockey coaching staff (including HC and director of hockey operations) correlates to the now-allowed three coaches. Cornell's coaching roster. I assume hockey operations differs from assistant coach. https://cornellbigred.com/sports/mens-ice-hockey/coaches
[b]NAME TITLE
Coaching Staff[/b]
Mike Schafer '86 Head Coach
Ben Syer Associate Head Coach
Sean Flanagan Assistant Coach
Ben Russell Director of Hockey Operations
[b]Support Staff[/b]
Ed Kelly Assistant Athletic Trainer
Sean Schmidt Equipment Manager
Quote from: billhowardQuote from: ursusminorRPI has hired former BU Assistant Athletic Director Dr. Kristie Bowers as its new AD. She played soccer at Binghamton.
BTW, RPI has an advertisement out for third paid assistant coaches for both its men's and women's hockey teams as the NCAA now allows. Is Cornell also getting additional ACs?
Cornell's four-person men's hockey coaching staff (including HC and director of hockey operations) correlates to the now-allowed three coaches. Cornell's coaching roster. I assume hockey operations differs from assistant coach. https://cornellbigred.com/sports/mens-ice-hockey/coaches
[b]NAME TITLE
Coaching Staff[/b]
Mike Schafer '86 Head Coach
Ben Syer Associate Head Coach
Sean Flanagan Assistant Coach
Ben Russell Director of Hockey Operations
[b]Support Staff[/b]
Ed Kelly Assistant Athletic Trainer
Sean Schmidt Equipment Manager
Pretty sure this is incorrect and a reading comprehension fail. Look at that list going back several years and the number of coaches and titles hasn't changed.
New rules are for three *assistant coaches*, not 3 coaches total
Quote from: ursusminorRPI has hired former BU Assistant Athletic Director Dr. Kristie Bowers as its new AD. She played soccer at Binghamton.
BTW, RPI has an advertisement out for third paid assistant coaches for both its men's and women's hockey teams as the NCAA now allows. Is Cornell also getting additional ACs?
Quote from: abmarksQuote from: billhowardQuote from: ursusminorRPI has hired former BU Assistant Athletic Director Dr. Kristie Bowers as its new AD. She played soccer at Binghamton.
BTW, RPI has an advertisement out for third paid assistant coaches for both its men's and women's hockey teams as the NCAA now allows. Is Cornell also getting additional ACs?
Cornell's four-person men's hockey coaching staff (including HC and director of hockey operations) correlates to the now-allowed three coaches. Cornell's coaching roster. I assume hockey operations differs from assistant coach. https://cornellbigred.com/sports/mens-ice-hockey/coaches
[b]NAME TITLE
Coaching Staff[/b]
Mike Schafer '86 Head Coach
Ben Syer Associate Head Coach
Sean Flanagan Assistant Coach
Ben Russell Director of Hockey Operations
[b]Support Staff[/b]
Ed Kelly Assistant Athletic Trainer
Sean Schmidt Equipment Manager
Pretty sure this is incorrect and a reading comprehension fail. Look at that list going back several years and the number of coaches and titles hasn't changed.
New rules are for three *assistant coaches*, not 3 coaches total
Quote from: ursusminorRPI has hired former BU Assistant Athletic Director Dr. Kristie Bowers as its new AD. She played soccer at Binghamton.
BTW, RPI has an advertisement out for third paid assistant coaches for both its men's and women's hockey teams as the NCAA now allows. Is Cornell also getting additional ACs?
Abmarks is correct. RPI's staff list does
not include the new coach yet and shows the head coach, two assistant coaches, and someone described as "operations coordinator". https://rpiathletics.com/staff-directory. RPI is very slow in updating things.
An RPI blog's take on RPI's defense and goalies. https://thefieldhouse.substack.com/p/analyzing-the-defense-and-goalies I assume that it is no secret that the first blogger listed is the same person whose computer-based predictions of the ECAC standings I posted on another thread, and then he commented after several Cornell fans' posts. An earlier evaluation of RPI's forwards is here https://thefieldhouse.substack.com/p/a-tier-based-breakdown-of-rpis-new .
It looks like I did not post the article stating that RPI's third assistant coach position was filled. https://rpiathletics.com/news/2023/9/14/mens-hockey-mens-hockey-tabs-karlis-zirnis-as-asst-coach.aspx
Some OOC games with possible PWR implications months from now have begun.
SLU beat RIT
Clarkson beat Notre Dame
BC beat Quinnipiac in OT
UCONN beat Colgate
Malone skating a lot for BC and Tupker for Q.
Quote from: arugulaMalone skating a lot for BC and Tupker for Q.
I am pretty sure I heard the other Tupker playing for Union yesterday.
Firewagon hockey in Hockey East with UNH leading #2 BU 6-4 in the third.
Quote from: ugarteFirewagon hockey in Hockey East with UNH leading #2 BU 6-4 in the third.
FWIW, that's also the final.
Lindenwood with a tie at tOSU
Last night St. Thomas took Minnesota to OT and tonight it's 2-0 GGs with the clock winding down.
Man, I love the Pairwise during the first couple of weeks of the season before the math really starts mathing.
Holy Cross is currently #1.
Quote from: TrotskyHoly Cross is currently #1.
Will miracles never cease?
Quote from: Jeff Hopkins '82Quote from: TrotskyHoly Cross is currently #1.
Will miracles never cease?
That's what Salah ad-Din Yusuf ibn Ayyub thought.
Quote from: TrotskyQuote from: Jeff Hopkins '82Quote from: TrotskyHoly Cross is currently #1.
Will miracles never cease?
That's what Salah ad-Din Yusuf ibn Ayyub thought.
Ah, the Ivy League and its esoteric humor. =]
Quote from: Jeff Hopkins '82Quote from: TrotskyHoly Cross is currently #1.
Will miracles never cease?
Nah, Bob Cousy's grandson laced up his skates for the Cross.
[Rambling aside: A fellow reporter with zero sports knowledge was assigned to write on the Springfield Mass. tip-off (basketball) classic back when this game mattered a lot (it allowed the participants N+1 games in their seasons). she interviewed honorary chair Bob Cousy, and at the end of the interview asked, "Mister Couseny [headslap 1], would you remind me of your relationship to basketball [headslaps 2-5]." Geezus Gawd. For the rest of the tournament, the sports desk was assigned to do the news-side stories. Just to avoid further embarrassment.
Dreams of a return to D3 sunk in the harbor like the Flying Dutchmen. (https://www.timesunion.com/news/article/union-college-s-ice-rink-schenectady-clears-major-18437543.php?IPID=Times-Union-HP-spotlight)
Quote from: martyDreams of a return to D3 sunk in the harbor like the Flying Dutchmen. (https://www.timesunion.com/news/article/union-college-s-ice-rink-schenectady-clears-major-18437543.php?IPID=Times-Union-HP-spotlight)
Be about 3/4 mile away from Union's current Messa Rink. Be about the same size (seating); Messa is now 2225 seats. They can't play someplace else for two summers and the year in between, then return to Messa? Or does Union want to replace an athletic facility with an academic building, as Cornell is doing? Messa is as old as Lynah was circa 1980, that is a bit more than two decades.
Take the seating numbers with a grain of salt. The story says the new facility would have 3600 seats; it also says in the caption the rink would be 3600 square feet (factcheck: a 200x85 surface is 17,000 square feet). And it further says seating for hockey would be about 2200. There's a casino next door, a boat yard, and two hotels. It sounds as if the town likes the idea of a spiffed up waterfront. There may be some state-federal-local development funds.
There's a note that the site used to be a GE locomotive factory and that there would need to be a site environmental review. I'm not an environmental engineer but I know long-ago vehicle factories have some soil quality issues. I worked one summer at Morse Chain on South Hill (Borg Warner), they've been gone for 40 years, the site was finally closed as a business in 2011 and site remediation I don't believe has full approval quite. So, lotsa luck, Union.
Map has new rink location upper left along the river, existing Messa rink is lower right.
Quote from: billhowardQuote from: martyDreams of a return to D3 sunk in the harbor like the Flying Dutchmen. (https://www.timesunion.com/news/article/union-college-s-ice-rink-schenectady-clears-major-18437543.php?IPID=Times-Union-HP-spotlight)
Be about 3/4 mile away from Union's current Messa Rink. Be about the same size (seating); Messa is now 2225 seats. They can't play someplace else for two summers and the year in between, then return to Messa? Or does Union want to replace an athletic facility with an academic building, as Cornell is doing? Messa is as old as Lynah was circa 1980, that is a bit more than two decades.
Administration saying it's cheaper: "...because expenses are shared with other parties, it is also the most cost-effective option."
QuoteTake the seating numbers with a grain of salt. The story says the new facility would have 3600 seats; it also says in the caption the rink would be 3600 square feet (factcheck: a 200x85 surface is 17,000 square feet). And it further says seating for hockey would be about 2200. There's a casino next door, a boat yard, and two hotels. It sounds as if the town likes the idea of a spiffed up waterfront. There may be some state-federal-local development funds.
Not enough copy editors/editors anymore :(
SHitty caption- it was clearly referring to 3600 seats given all the other info in the article. Plus, the article's Header and sub-header don't really go together. Both are accurate, but misleading together.
3600 seat arena for concerts.
2200 seat hockey rink.
QuoteThere's a note that the site used to be a GE locomotive factory and that there would need to be a site environmental review. I'm not an environmental engineer but I know long-ago vehicle factories have some soil quality issues. I worked one summer at Morse Chain on South Hill (Borg Warner), they've been gone for 40 years, the site was finally closed as a business in 2011 and site remediation I don't believe has full approval quite. So, lotsa luck, Union.
If GE was there before, there'll be a toxic stew left behind for sure. good luck indeed (or good luck getting the remediation paid for)
Quote from: billhowardThere's a note that the site used to be a GE locomotive factory and that there would need to be a site environmental review. I'm not an environmental engineer but I know long-ago vehicle factories have some soil quality issues. I worked one summer at Morse Chain on South Hill (Borg Warner), they've been gone for 40 years, the site was finally closed as a business in 2011 and site remediation I don't believe has full approval quite. So, lotsa luck, Union.
Mandatory:
(https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-Wgh63Yzl7sk/VdHuYqHme8I/AAAAAAAADys/QC1DFo1v1rw/s1600/Schenectady%2Bworks%2B1899%2B.png)
Quote from: billhowardMap has new rink location upper left along the river, existing Messa rink is lower right.
I give you credit Bill for posting the map. My "fell out of bed on my head" meter told me this is a fucked up location for the rink of a small school like Union, I didn't bother to look for the proof of my
concussion conclusion, Thanks for doing this. I think the school will be running shuttles to the game. I can't imagine this is going to promote good student attendance. As much as I have no use for the Cornell Band stifling dorks at Messa Rink this seems to be an even more silly move than tamping down fun and rivalry. Free pizza if you show up won't counteract the inconvenient location. Maybe they'll offer a few chips for the Craps table or a full
pulls pushes of the One Armed Bandit with each "adult" ticket.
Isn't the "Vampire Squid of the Week" Q facility well off campus, too?
Maybe this is the future. They'll put Lynah 2 at Cass Park.
Quote from: TrotskyIsn't the "Vampire Squid of the Week" Q facility well off campus, too?
Q's rink is on its York Hill Campus. When the rink was first opened, there wasn't anything else there. But now that campus -- which is on top of a hill as those of us who have gone to games there know -- includes a student center and three dorms for upperclass students. So yes, the facility is off Q's main campus, but isn't a standalone arena, since several thousand students live on the York Hill Campus. And Q runs shuttle busses from the main campus to the rink for their students (not to be confused with the shuttle busses Q runs from the York Hill Campus to downtown New Haven for the students who want to go clubbing on weekend nights).
FWIW, Lehigh's sports facilities are all on the other side of a mountain from its campus. They run buses for students on game days.
Quote from: Jeff Hopkins '82FWIW, Lehigh's sports facilities are all on the other side of a mountain from its campus. They run buses for students on game days.
Yale's football, soccer, lacrosse, baseball, track, tennis, golf venues are more than a mile from campus. Crew races 10+ miles from campus.
Harvard's hockey rink and football field are in a different town.
Quote from: TrotskyHarvard's hockey rink and football field are in a different town.
But it's only a half-mile walk from Harvard Sq. That's a shorter distance than from the North Campus dorms to Lynah.
Augustana is starting off with a bang. Beating Denver and CC in the same weekend. What kind of roster did they build for their first season?
Quote from: upprdeckBeating Denver and CC in the same weekend.
On the road.
Quote from: upprdeckAugustana is starting off with a bang. Beating Denver and CC in the same weekend. What kind of roster did they build for their first season?
Youngest player is 20; 11 players 23 and older. That's a start.
Quote from: upprdeckWhat kind of roster did they build for their first season?
Wow did they raid the portal (https://goaugie.com/sports/mens-hockey/roster)!
I count 2 guys from Colgate, Ohio State, and St. Cloud, and 1 from Wisconsin, Bowling Green, UAF, ASU, Clarkson, Niagara, Miami, Providence, Wis-Stevens Point (D3). That's 15 transfers from other NCAA programs.
Quote from: ugarteQuote from: upprdeckAugustana is starting off with a bang. Beating Denver and CC in the same weekend. What kind of roster did they build for their first season?
Youngest player is 20; 11 players 23 and older. That's a start.
They can play bingo and shuffleboard with Q.
UMD came back to tie Minn the 2nd night. maybe when they get healthy they help us out with some wins.
I know that Cornell last year was among the leaders in the fewest SOG allowed per game. I was thinking about this Friday night when I compared the total SOG in the Cornell-Yale game to the SOG totals in the other ECAC games. Here's the breakdown for the weekend.
Friday night games
Cornell-Yale 43
Q-Dartmouth 70
RPI-Union 63
Colgate-Brown 64
Princeton-Harvard 64
Average for other four games -- 67.5
Saturday night games
Cornell-Brown 49
Q-Harvard 58
Princeton-Dartmouth 69
Union-RPI 52
Colgate-Yale 60
Average for other four games -- 59.8
For the season, we are only allowing 18 SOG per game, so it looks like we once again will be among the leaders in this category. It also helps that Cornell blocks a lot of shots. Against Yale, for example, we blocked 17 shots and Yale only had 20 SOG. This is nothing new for Cornell, of course, but it's still interesting to see. It will also be interesting to see if we can keep the SOG numbers low when we start playing some of the better offensive teams in the conference, which we will be doing over the next few weekends. Last year, for example, we gave up 17 SOG to Q in the first period when we played them in Hamden. In any case, it makes it a lot easier for our goalies to post impressive numbers when they don't have to face a barrage of shots.
Q and BU scoreless after 2 periods in a competitive game
Quote from: IcebergQ and BU scoreless after 2 periods in a competitive game
not anymore, what a game we have going on, 1 vs 2 in the pairwise.
Go Q. You assholes.
Quote from: TrotskyGo Q. You assholes.
Our people. BU and Hockey East are now the dark side.
U Mass @ Sucks tied 3-3 with 3 goals scored (2-1) less than 5 minutes into the 2nd period. That is Harvard was up 2-1 after 1.
Quote from: martyU Mass @ Sucks tied 3-3 with 3 goals scored (2-1) less than 5 minutes into the 2nd period. That is Harvard was up 2-1 after 1.
U Mass up 6-5 with 12:22 left in the 3rd.
I'll be shocked if the ECAC isn't a two-bid league this year
It would not be "shocking," in my estimation. Q will be an auto bid, either Cornell or Harvard could get into that 9-12 belt, and then the other of them, or somebody else, could take the cheese in Placid.
I'll be shocked if the ECAC is a four-bid league this year.
Quote from: IcebergI'll be shocked if the ECAC isn't a two-bid league this year
Could easily be a one-bid league this year...
Since we've got a few weeks between games, I thought I would share some details from an article (https://theathletic.com/5080274/2023/11/27/michigan-state-hockey-nhl/) (paywall) about the Michigan State hockey team which was published by The Athletic last month, and then reprinted on the front page of Sports Monday in today's NY Times. This part of the article is about Red Savage, a MSU player who was a fourth-round pick of the Detroit Red Wings and whose father had played in the NHL. Based upon this article, it sounds like MSU practices at 11 a.m. during the week, and most players have to take classes later in the day, starting at 3 p.m.
4:17 p.m.: After a 3 p.m. class, Savage has returned to Munn and is standing in his new team's new room, where his Red Wings are playing the Ottawa Senators in the NHL Global Series.
On his way out, he passes by the team's shooting room, sauna and steam room, the players' dry stalls, their video room, a bathroom fully stocked with deodorant, fridges fully stocked with two catered meals a day (breakfast and lunch), hot and cold tubs equipped with underwater cameras and treadmills, and a ping pong room.
"The Euros love ping pong," he says.
A big routine guy, Savage is normally at the rink from 9-3, off to class and then unplugged afterward with some Fortnite, cooking or football.
Later on, it talks about why he transferred to MSU from Miami.
After battling some nagging injuries, including discomfort left over from shoulder surgery, he was also drawn to reuniting with new head of athletic performance Will Morlock, who he worked with through GVN, the gym at the national program. He calls Morlock a "massive reason" he chose MSU.
"I had a ton of trust in him and just knowing that he can walk me towards what I want to be and where I want my body to be at. The support we have here on that front is ... insane. ... There's a new toy in the gym like every week," he says, talking about two new $50,000 apiece computerized and motorized weightless racks, and the iPads (with personalized plans under each player's name) and high-speed cameras attached to every station in the gym.
After reading this article, which talks about how their new coach has MSU returning to its glory days, a few things in particular stood out. First of all, it's hard to imagine most of the Cornell players not being able to take morning classes, like apparently is the case at MSU. I also don't know how many of them spend six hours at Lynah on a regular basis. Secondly, there's no way most of the ECAC schools can compete with Big Ten schools when it comes to fancy training facilities. In any case, it made for an interesting read.
Quote from: dbilmesSince we've got a few weeks between games, I thought I would share some details from an article (https://theathletic.com/5080274/2023/11/27/michigan-state-hockey-nhl/) (paywall) about the Michigan State hockey team which was published by The Athletic last month, and then reprinted on the front page of Sports Monday in today's NY Times. This part of the article is about Red Savage, a MSU player who was a fourth-round pick of the Detroit Red Wings and whose father had played in the NHL. Based upon this article, it sounds like MSU practices at 11 a.m. during the week, and most players have to take classes later in the day, starting at 3 p.m.
4:17 p.m.: After a 3 p.m. class, Savage has returned to Munn and is standing in his new team's new room, where his Red Wings are playing the Ottawa Senators in the NHL Global Series.
On his way out, he passes by the team's shooting room, sauna and steam room, the players' dry stalls, their video room, a bathroom fully stocked with deodorant, fridges fully stocked with two catered meals a day (breakfast and lunch), hot and cold tubs equipped with underwater cameras and treadmills, and a ping pong room.
"The Euros love ping pong," he says.
A big routine guy, Savage is normally at the rink from 9-3, off to class and then unplugged afterward with some Fortnite, cooking or football.
Later on, it talks about why he transferred to MSU from Miami.
After battling some nagging injuries, including discomfort left over from shoulder surgery, he was also drawn to reuniting with new head of athletic performance Will Morlock, who he worked with through GVN, the gym at the national program. He calls Morlock a "massive reason" he chose MSU.
"I had a ton of trust in him and just knowing that he can walk me towards what I want to be and where I want my body to be at. The support we have here on that front is ... insane. ... There's a new toy in the gym like every week," he says, talking about two new $50,000 apiece computerized and motorized weightless racks, and the iPads (with personalized plans under each player's name) and high-speed cameras attached to every station in the gym.
After reading this article, which talks about how their new coach has MSU returning to its glory days, a few things in particular stood out. First of all, it's hard to imagine most of the Cornell players not being able to take morning classes, like apparently is the case at MSU. I also don't know how many of them spend six hours at Lynah on a regular basis. Secondly, there's no way most of the ECAC schools can compete with Big Ten schools when it comes to fancy training facilities. In any case, it made for an interesting read.
Nice find, thanks for sharing
There are some YouTube videos with yours of college hockey facilities. For example, UMass, which provides its players 24-hour access to a rink and gym exclusive to the hockey team:
https://youtu.be/RpyhCEHQwNs?si=MsvSS5QcM5AdO1dd
Contrast with the Cornell men's team, which shares its ice with the women's team, figure skating team, club team, intramurals, and recreational skaters, and which has a couple exclusive bikes and treadmills.
Quote from: BearLoverThere are some YouTube videos with yours of college hockey facilities. For example, UMass, which provides its players 24-hour access to a rink and gym exclusive to the hockey team:
https://youtu.be/RpyhCEHQwNs?si=MsvSS5QcM5AdO1dd
Contrast with the Cornell men's team, which shares its ice with the women's team, figure skating team, club team, intramurals, and recreational skaters, and which has a couple exclusive bikes and treadmills.
Didn't they add a weight room in Lynah for just the hockey teams this year? I saw a video on Instagram in which Doug Derraugh gave a quick tour. I think it's in a former locker room. So they're at least doing what they can absent a much larger hockey facility.
Quote from: WederQuote from: BearLoverThere are some YouTube videos with yours of college hockey facilities. For example, UMass, which provides its players 24-hour access to a rink and gym exclusive to the hockey team:
https://youtu.be/RpyhCEHQwNs?si=MsvSS5QcM5AdO1dd
Contrast with the Cornell men's team, which shares its ice with the women's team, figure skating team, club team, intramurals, and recreational skaters, and which has a couple exclusive bikes and treadmills.
Didn't they add a weight room in Lynah for just the hockey teams this year? I saw a video on Instagram in which Doug Derraugh gave a quick tour. I think it's in a former locker room. So they're at least doing what they can absent a much larger hockey facility.
Yeah, they did. I think it's just a few machines, but at least it's something.
Finally some good help from the ECAC tonight.
Quote from: chimpfoodFinally some good help from the ECAC tonight.
Yup:
Clarkson 5 Stonehill 1
Union 5 Vermont 4
Yale 5 Merrimack 2
Princeton 4 Sacred Heart 0
Dartmouth 4 Arizona State 4 (ot)
Cornell back up to 22 in PWR.
Quote from: chimpfoodFinally some good help from the ECAC tonight.
RPI will rectify that this afternoon. :D
Actually, I doubt that the 'Tute losing at this point will hurt the Cornell much.
Quote from: ursusminorQuote from: chimpfoodFinally some good help from the ECAC tonight.
RPI will rectify that this afternoon. :D
Actually, I doubt that the 'Tute losing at this point will hurt the Cornell much.
1-0 loss; damn fine effort by the Engineers.
I don't think the ECAC Is ever quite as bad as it seems, it's just that the lower tier of the conference are always trying to punch up in out of conference games instead of playing teams at their level.
Quote from: chimpfoodI don't think the ECAC Is ever quite as bad as it seems, it's just that the lower tier of the conference are always trying to punch up in out of conference games instead of playing teams at their level.
I can only comment on RPI. We certainly seem to be doing that this year, but last year we mainly played AHA teams.
Surprisingly OT in Troy. 3-3 @ end of regulation.
RPI wins!
Cornell holding at 21 PWR.
Since I didn't feel like driving up to Lake Placid tonight from New Haven, I went to watch Yale play BU instead. Cornell is the only team which has beaten both of them this season. I assume for PWR, it was better for us for BU to win, which they did 6-1. The scary thing was BU was missing three of its stars, all of whom were playing for their respective countries in the U18s. Even so, the talent/skill level of the BU players is absurd. BU scored twice in the first six minutes and it looked like a blowout, but Yale scored later in the period and was outplaying BU to start the second period. But then a Yale player got a 5-minute major and even though BU only scored once on the ensuing PP, that turned the momentum around and BU coasted the rest of the night, although the game did get fairly chippy. It was nice to see a full house at the Yale Whale, including a large contingent of BU fans.
Quote from: dbilmesSince I didn't feel like driving up to Lake Placid tonight from New Haven, I went to watch Yale play BU instead. Cornell is the only team which has beaten both of them this season. I assume for PWR, it was better for us for BU to win, which they did 6-1. The scary thing was BU was missing three of its stars, all of whom were playing for their respective countries in the U18s. Even so, the talent/skill level of the BU players is absurd. BU scored twice in the first six minutes and it looked like a blowout, but Yale scored later in the period and was outplaying BU to start the second period. But then a Yale player got a 5-minute major and even though BU only scored once on the ensuing PP, that turned the momentum around and BU coasted the rest of the night, although the game did get fairly chippy. It was nice to see a full house at the Yale Whale, including a large contingent of BU fans.
It was better for us for Yale to win, because we play them twice and BU only once. In addition, I believe that Yale winning also improves the RPI of the other ECAC teams, which thereby improves our own RPI? Not a big deal either way who won, though.
Delete
Anyone watching Princeton's beating the hell out of Harvard? Harvard has one win! How in gods name did we lose to them? Donato is a terrible coach.
Harvard must have thought it was a tournament. Up 2-0, outshooting Princeton 15-7, and then... 5 unanswered goals.
Clarkson beat UMass in overtime; I don't know if that will delay our start.
Quote from: arugulaAnyone watching Princeton's beating the hell out of Harvard? Harvard has one win! How in gods name did we lose to them? Donato is a terrible coach.
I saw the highlights and Harvard's defense looked like a comedy show before some of those Princeton goals. Two of the defenders literally ran into each other in one instance!
Guess will not need my planned "Hey Gay, Copy This: Harvard Sux Go Red!" sign for Lynah East in a few weeks anymore...
US wins the world juniors. No offense at all to the kid but how did keopple make the world junior team a couple years ago?
QPuke @ Northeastern going into OT tired at 3.
Colgate leading 4-3 at PWR #1 Maine with 10 minutes to go.
Colgate kills off a 5th Maine pp. 4-3,7 minutes to go.
With RPI hanging on to beat Brown, Harvard is last in the ECAC standings.
If the RPI women could get a league win, both Harvard teams would be in 12th. RPI did sweep UVM this weekend by identical 5-1 scores.
Quote from: ursusminorWith RPI hanging on to beat Brown, Harvard is last in the ECAC standings.
Harvard is also the bottom ECAC team in PWR, at 57.
Jesus, great individual play by a Maine player to tie it with 2:25 to go.
Colgate and Maine tie after a potential Colgate GWG is waved off on OT. Not a bad effort by the visiting team
Decent night for the conference.
Colgate ties at PWR #1 Maine
Princeton loses at #11 UNH
SLU ties at #18 RIT
Quinnipiac ties at #24 Northeastern
Dartmouth beats #32 Vermont
Harvard loses at #35 Lowell
Clarkson wins at #58 Canisius
Quote from: TrotskyDecent night for the conference.
Colgate ties at PWR #1 Maine
Princeton loses at #11 UNH
SLU ties at #18 RIT
Quinnipiac ties at #24 Northeastern
Dartmouth beats #32 Vermont
Harvard loses at #35 Lowell
Clarkson wins at #58 Canisius
.
We pushed up to 19.
next week at Ariz st.
Last chance to get that OC PWR bump.
Minn Duluth didnt help
Quote from: ursusminorWith RPI hanging on to beat Brown, Harvard is last in the ECAC standings.
If the RPI women could get a league win, both Harvard teams would be in 12th. RPI did sweep UVM this weekend by identical 5-1 scores.
According to USCHO, this has already happened since they gave RPI 2 league victories for the sweep of UVM. https://www.uscho.com/standings/division-i-women/ Well, they once were in the ECAC. This may get fixed before others look.
Sacred Hearts rink is on display live as they host Army on regional sports channel SNY.
Mac Gadowski playing as a Black Knight rather than a Nittany Lion for his Dad.
Quote from: TrotskyWe pushed up to 19.
With regard to pairwise, do we gain if BU wins on a given night (such as tonight vs. Northeastern)?
I don't know who to root for.
Quote from: martyQuote from: TrotskyWe pushed up to 19.
With regard to pairwise, do we gain if BU wins on a given night (such as tonight vs. Northeastern)?
I don't know who to root for.
Yes. Our ranking is a function, in part, of our strength of schedule. Also, NEU is in striking distance of an at-large bid. A win over BU would have substantially improved their position, including passing us in the Pairwise.
We improve when an opponent wins, unless they beat an opponent we played more times.
After this weekend we are going to become the world's biggest fans of ASU.
Quote from: BearLoverNEU
No. Just no.
NU. NOR if you
must have 3 chars.
But none of this Deutschland shit.
If the CHN app is to be believed, Q scored six goals in the first 8:52 of its game against Princeton, finishing the first period with six goals on 10 SOG. That's a rough stretch for the Princeton goalie/s. I'm hoping they pulled the starter at some point during the onslaught, perhaps after the fourth goal just 5:13 into the game.
Also it looks as if Brown scored with less than 1 second left to beat a team that some people think Sucks.
Quote from: martyAlso it looks as if Brown scored with less than 1 second left to beat a team that some people think Sucks.
Actually, Brown was ahead 4-3 when it scored that buzzer beater.
Quote from: dbilmesQuote from: martyAlso it looks as if Brown scored with less than 1 second left to beat a team that some people think Sucks.
Actually, Brown was ahead 4-3 when it scored that buzzer beater.
Ok. Error on the score I read. Thanks.
Quote from: martyAlso it looks as if Brown scored with less than 1 second left to beat a team that some people think Sucks.
But their draft picks...!!
I was just watching the Holy Cross - Army game. The announcer actually referred to Cornell going to Cambridge and calling it "Lynah East." I had no idea that name was known beyond eLynah!
Colgate lost 3-2 in OT at LIU in both games this weekend. Of course, Cornell somehow managed to lay an egg at home against Colgate when they were only able to dress 4 defensemen.
whatever happens vs Quin
if they win the other 3 we go from 7th to most likely 2nd in the league.
now we need wins to build up the RPI to have a chance in the PWR
Quote from: upprdeckwhatever happens vs Quin
if they win the other 3 we go from 7th to most likely 2nd in the league.
now we need wins to build up the RPI to have a chance in the PWR
Our RPI right now is .5447. From what I can tell, .54 is usually enough to get in. So maybe some of the teams ahead of us will slip a little.
The more I look at it, the more I don't understand the point of the pairwise. It's almost exactly the same as RPI every season. I'd just switch to straight RPI.
since RPI is the tie breaking component for many of the teams thats gonna happen.
the COP and H2H come into play for limited teams.
Umass is an example.. if we beat Harv we win the COP and had we beaten them instead of a tie we would win the PWR even with losing the RPI.
But how often RPI isnt the real reason for winning a PWR would need some review to see.
Quote from: upprdecksince RPI is the tie breaking component for many of the teams thats gonna happen.
the COP and H2H come into play for limited teams.
Umass is an example.. if we beat Harv we win the COP and had we beaten them instead of a tie we would win the PWR even with losing the RPI.
But how often RPI isnt the real reason for winning a PWR would need some review to see.
It seems like every year, there's only a couple or so differences between RPI and PWR rankings. Why go through all the hassle?
Quote from: DafatoneQuote from: upprdeckwhatever happens vs Quin
if they win the other 3 we go from 7th to most likely 2nd in the league.
now we need wins to build up the RPI to have a chance in the PWR
Our RPI right now is .5447. From what I can tell, .54 is usually enough to get in. So maybe some of the teams ahead of us will slip a little.
The more I look at it, the more I don't understand the point of the pairwise. It's almost exactly the same as RPI every season. I'd just switch to straight RPI.
Yeah. I think it's just RPI, except you drop a spot for each team behind you in RPI who has a (1) positive record against you and (2) better record than you against common opponents. This happened with Minn-Duluth last year: we had higher RPI, but they beat us head to head and had a better record against common opponents, so we ended up one ranking lower in the PWR.
Quote from: BearLoverQuote from: DafatoneQuote from: upprdeckwhatever happens vs Quin
if they win the other 3 we go from 7th to most likely 2nd in the league.
now we need wins to build up the RPI to have a chance in the PWR
Our RPI right now is .5447. From what I can tell, .54 is usually enough to get in. So maybe some of the teams ahead of us will slip a little.
The more I look at it, the more I don't understand the point of the pairwise. It's almost exactly the same as RPI every season. I'd just switch to straight RPI.
Yeah. I think it's just RPI, except you drop a spot for each team behind you in RPI who has a (1) positive record against you and (2) better record than you against common opponents. This happened with Minn-Duluth last year: we had higher RPI, but they beat us head to head and had a better record against common opponents, so we ended up one ranking lower in the PWR.
Yup. Or, in the rare case you go 3-0 or better against a team, you beat them even if they have a better RPI and a better common opponent record.
But flipping one pairwise doesn't actually move you up. Say Team A is 39th and Team B is 40th in PWR and RPI, with A winning one more comparison than B. Then B flips a comparison with some other Team C. Now A and B are tied in comparisons won. The tiebreaker there is still RPI, so A is still 39 and B 40.
Our good buddy TJ Semptimphelter just got chased for a second straight game, giving up 3 goals on 6 shots to national powerhouse Augustana (6-11-3). ASU outshooting them 36-14 but still tied with 3 to play in regulation. We could use a Sun Devil goal.
#13 Massachusetts wins at #28 Northeastern.
#1 BU wins at #31 Vermont.
#24 Minnesota-Duluth loses at #10 Western Michigan.
#18 Arizona State wins vs #34 Augustana.
You may have heard about an Ohio State player who speared a Minnesota player on the bench last night. Here (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WCHA4w0Nick&ab_channel=BrandonQuast) is the same piece of shit in a USHL game 2 years ago with a friend of ours. Also a fine example of derp announcing.
Quote from: TrotskyYou may have heard about an Ohio State player who speared a Minnesota player on the bench last night. Here (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WCHA4w0Nick&ab_channel=BrandonQuast) is the same piece of shit in a USHL game 2 years ago with a friend of ours. Also a fine example of derp announcing.
Here's video of last night's spearing:
https://twitter.com/brodshockey/status/1748917231314927973?t=WLqjMVyBcYlOnqxbrmjhIQ&s=19
Love the linesman take down. On first view I thought he decked him. If only.
Cornell led BU for 12 min.
Since that game BU has only trailed 1 time for 8 min total.
RIT as of January 2024 is in the polling Top 20 (19 as of Jan. 22, both polls). If only we had two more games allowed, we could have played them this year in an early January dead week. They would be a reasonable replacement if Quinnipiac decides to flee to Hockey East or B1G.
Quote from: billhowardRIT as of January 2024 is in the polling Top 20 (19 as of Jan. 22, both polls). If only we had two more games allowed, we could have played them this year in an early January dead week. They would be a reasonable replacement if Quinnipiac decides to flee to Hockey East or B1G.
Replace Quinnipiac with Arizona State. The ECAC could use the crossbreeding.
(https://ts2.mm.bing.net/th?q=Arizona+State+University+Hot+Girls)
Greg please be horny in a private channel.
Quote from: ugarteGreg please be horny in a private channel.
It's too late for me. Save yourselves.
Quote from: TrotskyQuote from: ugarteGreg please be horny in a private channel.
It's too late for me. Save yourselves.
50/50 he's on Epstein's travel logs (disclaimer: it's a joke)
Quote from: scoop85Quote from: TrotskyQuote from: ugarteGreg please be horny in a private channel.
It's too late for me. Save yourselves.
50/50 he's on Epstein's travel logs (disclaimer: it's a joke)
Those women are too old for Epstein's clientele.
BC with a pair of ENGs to pull away from BU.
Pairwise #10 Western Mich lost to #22 Colorado College in OT and dropped four spots down to #14. Unfortunately Michigan beat Wisconsin and St. Cloud is winning. We still aren't very close to any of the teams ahead of us.
Quote from: BearLoverUnfortunately Michigan beat Wisconsin and St. Cloud is winning.
St. Cloud just lost in OT.
Quote from: TrotskyQuote from: billhowardRIT as of January 2024 is in the polling Top 20 (19 as of Jan. 22, both polls). If only we had two more games allowed, we could have played them this year in an early January dead week. They would be a reasonable replacement if Quinnipiac decides to flee to Hockey East or B1G.
Replace Quinnipiac with Arizona State. The ECAC could use the crossbreeding.
(https://ts2.mm.bing.net/th?q=Arizona+State+University+Hot+Girls)
He was talking about both rows, no?::bolt::
UConn leading Q 3-1 late in the 2nd.
Arizona State manages - barely - not to lose in regulation to an epically bad Lindenwood team (and ties it on a shorty, so good on them for not giving up). Is ASU playing shitty hockey just to spite us?!
Quote from: BeeeejArizona State manages - barely - not to lose in regulation to an epically bad Lindenwood team (and ties it on a shorty, so good on them for not giving up). Is ASU playing shitty hockey just to spite us?!
...and loses the shootout anyway.
Cornell is getting very little help from other results. It's hard to see us catching anybody in the top 12 of the PWR, and 13 and 14 will be tough to catch unless we win almost every remaining game. Frankly, almost everyone ahead of us is a blue-blood program with a really good team this year. We need to keep winning.
We need to win the auto bid, which, happily, is the point of the post-season anyway.
Quote from: TrotskyWe need to win the auto bid, which, happily, is the point of the post-season anyway.
No we don't. Cornell will very likely be in the NCAAs if we lose one, two, or maybe even three games without winning the ECAC tournament.
Quote from: BearLoverQuote from: TrotskyWe need to win the auto bid, which, happily, is the point of the post-season anyway.
No we don't. Cornell will very likely be in the NCAAs if we lose one, two, or maybe even three games without winning the ECAC tournament.
You're the one who said we need to keep winning. If we need to keep winning it is because otherwise we will fall out of PWR contention and have to win the auto bid.
It's your baby, Rosemary.
Quote from: TrotskyQuote from: BearLoverQuote from: TrotskyWe need to win the auto bid, which, happily, is the point of the post-season anyway.
No we don't. Cornell will very likely be in the NCAAs if we lose one, two, or maybe even three games without winning the ECAC tournament.
You're the one who said we need to keep winning. If we need to keep winning it is because otherwise we will fall out of PWR contention and have to win the auto bid.
It's your baby, Rosemary.
Yeah, we need to keep winning...the doesn't mean win literally every single remaining game. Cornell has at least 11 games left before the NCAAs. Even the best hockey team is very unlikely to win 11 games in a row. Saying we need to "keep winning" just means we need to keep winning at a very high rate.
we need BU/BC to do their thing as well as Ndak/Denver and MSU/Minn/Wisc
Mich is only a few games over .500 and under .500 in the B10.. They get swept by MSU and/OR Minn and they could fall below .500
crazy world where UNH is 8th in HE but 16th in PWR
I'm not sure if I care about this. (https://www.dailygazette.com/sports/former-union-college-mens-hockey-coach-bennett-fired-as-head-coach-of-echls-ghost-pirates/article_458a5d94-c132-11ee-b33b-57ae944059d5.html) I never cared for him but strangely don't feel Scadenfreude.
Playing the PWR what if is pretty hard to see us getting very much higher without some bad play above us no matter how well we play down the stretch.
If Mich doesnt get swept this weekend by MSU they gain on us and if they sweep they really gain on us
Umass has 4 chances to win over higher ranked teams. so best to have them beat UNH in a few weeks and hope they lose a bunch
if WMU just splits and gets swept vs NDAK we have a slight chance to pass them
st cloud needs to get swept by Denver in a few weeks
Prov would help by Maine sweeping them at home
we might be able to get to 10-11th or so with continued good play. But even home sweeps and splits on the rd we lose ground probably need 7-1 to stay in the race.
Let's not forget that conference tournaments count for the pairwise, we have plenty of time and games to go.
Quote from: upprdeckPlaying the PWR what if is pretty hard to see us getting very much higher without some bad play above us no matter how well we play down the stretch.
If Mich doesnt get swept this weekend by MSU they gain on us and if they sweep they really gain on us
Umass has 4 chances to win over higher ranked teams. so best to have them beat UNH in a few weeks and hope they lose a bunch
if WMU just splits and gets swept vs NDAK we have a slight chance to pass them
st cloud needs to get swept by Denver in a few weeks
Prov would help by Maine sweeping them at home
we might be able to get to 10-11th or so with continued good play. But even home sweeps and splits on the rd we lose ground probably need 7-1 to stay in the race.
Also, Colorado College and UNH are right behind us and can gain a lot of ground given their remaining schedule (including NCHC/HE playoffs). Seems like this may be a really strange year where the NCAA top ~16 is top-heavy and everyone else is mediocre to bad.
I would think it would be in our best interests for BU to win the Beanpot, no?
Quote from: IcebergI would think it would be in our best interests for BU to win the Beanpot, no?
Harvard over BU or BU over Harvard? We don't want either to lose tomorrow.
Quote from: martyQuote from: IcebergI would think it would be in our best interests for BU to win the Beanpot, no?
Harvard over BU or BU over Harvard? We don't want either to lose tomorrow.
We want Harvard to win because we play them more.
Most championships, NCAA history
1. Michigan-9
1. Denver-9
3. NoDak-8
4. Wisconsin-6
5. BC-5
5. BU-5
5. Minnesota-5
These teams are currently 1,2,3,5,8,9,12 in the pairwise.
have to be honest it was weird seeing wisconsin and maine stink and i'm glad they don't
Yes on Wisconsin. Maine cheated; to heck with them.
Harvard vs Northeastern is the 5pm Beanplop game. Harvard sucks; go Harvard!
Quote from: TrotskyYes on Wisconsin. Maine cheated; to heck with them.
if the way they stink meant i got to watch Kariya play in college, i can live with that.
Kariya would have just played somewhere else.
I always wondered who else recruited him. He did come out of BC when the McCutcheon pipeline was at its peak.
"On the biggest stage there is."
Well...
Quote from: TrotskyKariya would have just played somewhere else.
I always wondered who else recruited him. He did come out of BC when the McCutcheon pipeline was at its peak.
What is the back story here? I remember Walsh getting popped for taking money from boosters. Was Kariya also?
Quote from: The RancorQuote from: TrotskyKariya would have just played somewhere else.
I always wondered who else recruited him. He did come out of BC when the McCutcheon pipeline was at its peak.
What is the back story here? I remember Walsh getting popped for taking money from boosters. Was Kariya also?
Kariya was not involved in anything.
The big Maine scandal was admissions.
Quote from: TrotskyKariya would have just played somewhere else.
I always wondered who else recruited him. He did come out of BC when the McCutcheon pipeline was at its peak.
I saw a couple articles that said he had offers from BU, BC, and Harvard and was being recruited by a pile of schools.
Quote from: pfibigerQuote from: TrotskyKariya would have just played somewhere else.
I always wondered who else recruited him. He did come out of BC when the McCutcheon pipeline was at its peak.
I saw a couple articles that said he had offers from BU, BC, and Harvard and was being recruited by a pile of schools.
I think I remember something like that. BC and Harvard ring a bell.
Quote from: The RancorQuote from: TrotskyKariya would have just played somewhere else.
I always wondered who else recruited him. He did come out of BC when the McCutcheon pipeline was at its peak.
What is the back story here? I remember Walsh getting popped for taking money from boosters. Was Kariya also?
I don't recall anything about Walsh taking money from boosters. And even if he did, I don't think that's against any rules.
Walsh broke a hundred other rules, though -- mainly getting ineligible players skated by because Maine's admissions and compliance department was non-existent, clueless, didn't care or all of the above. This led to numerous players getting declared ineligible after the fact, and games having to be forfeited left and right. And when he got dinged on one, he'd just try it again with someone else. Walsh always thought he could outsmart everyone, and that his interpretation of the rules were correct, and he was defiant about it. Moreso, he was just trying to pull the wool over people's eyes.
If we think our freshmen are good, BC has an all-freshman line which has combined for 38 goals this season.
Quote from: dbilmesIf we think our freshmen are good, BC has an all-freshman line which has combined for 38 goals this season.
If we had 3 1st rounders on a line they'd have the same type of production
Quote from: scoop85Quote from: dbilmesIf we think our freshmen are good, BC has an all-freshman line which has combined for 38 goals this season.
If we had 3 1st rounders on a line they'd have the same type of production
Draft picks? Draft picks?????
Quote from: scoop85Quote from: dbilmesIf we think our freshmen are good, BC has an all-freshman line which has combined for 38 goals this season.
If we had 3 1st rounders on a line they'd have the same type of production
And they'd leave after 2 years.
Quote from: adamwQuote from: The RancorWhat is the back story here? I remember Walsh getting popped for taking money from boosters. Was Kariya also?
I don't recall anything about Walsh taking money from boosters. And even if he did, I don't think that's against any rules.
Walsh did take some money from boosters while he was on a five-game unpaid suspension, despite specifically being told by the university NOT to take the money. I'm unclear whether that was a rules violation, but apparently the real problem was that he lied about the whole situation a few months later during an investigation.
Quote from: adamwQuote from: The RancorQuote from: TrotskyKariya would have just played somewhere else.
I always wondered who else recruited him. He did come out of BC when the McCutcheon pipeline was at its peak.
What is the back story here? I remember Walsh getting popped for taking money from boosters. Was Kariya also?
I don't recall anything about Walsh taking money from boosters. And even if he did, I don't think that's against any rules.
Walsh broke a hundred other rules, though -- mainly getting ineligible players skated by because Maine's admissions and compliance department was non-existent, clueless, didn't care or all of the above. This led to numerous players getting declared ineligible after the fact, and games having to be forfeited left and right. And when he got dinged on one, he'd just try it again with someone else. Walsh always thought he could outsmart everyone, and that his interpretation of the rules were correct, and he was defiant about it. Moreso, he was just trying to pull the wool over people's eyes.
Sounds as if he might have had a better future running for President of the United States. ::whistle::
Cornell needs to work hard on the road this weekend
Root for MSU/Maine sweeps and Umass to get nothing better than a split vs UConn.
Really wild would be WMU splitting with Omaha
Cornell potentially could move to 10th if all that happens.
Quote from: TrotskyQuote from: scoop85Quote from: dbilmesIf we think our freshmen are good, BC has an all-freshman line which has combined for 38 goals this season.
If we had 3 1st rounders on a line they'd have the same type of production
And they'd leave after 2 years.
If you can reload with 3.more every two years, who cares?
Quote from: abmarksQuote from: TrotskyQuote from: scoop85Quote from: dbilmesIf we think our freshmen are good, BC has an all-freshman line which has combined for 38 goals this season.
If we had 3 1st rounders on a line they'd have the same type of production
And they'd leave after 2 years.
If you can reload with 3.more every two years, who cares?
I guess that's true, but I think there are symbiotic effects with guys who play a long time together. And patriots are more romantic than mercenaries.
Schafer's success has been an expression of the advantages of team culture and experience over atomistic individuals, however talented.
Can somebody please plot a graph with # of draft picks on the X axis and that team's PWR on the Y axis, to test the correlation?
Quote from: BearLoverCan somebody please plot a graph with # of draft picks on the X axis and that team's PWR on the Y axis, to test the correlation?
Current RPI vs Picks: https://imgur.com/4UKHy5q
Quote from: Chris '03Quote from: BearLoverCan somebody please plot a graph with # of draft picks on the X axis and that team's PWR on the Y axis, to test the correlation?
Current RPI vs Picks: https://imgur.com/4UKHy5q
Oh, Stonehill...
Quote from: Chris '03Quote from: BearLoverCan somebody please plot a graph with # of draft picks on the X axis and that team's PWR on the Y axis, to test the correlation?
Current RPI vs Picks: https://imgur.com/4UKHy5q
Awesome job, thank you! One note—I think the correlation doesn't jump off the page as much as it would if the scale of the Y-axis were adjusted for the fact that RPI ranges from 42% to 62% (excluding Stonehill). Which is to say, there is an EXTREMELY positive correlation this year between draft picks and RPI. Obviously, correlation=/=causation. Better programs attract better talent, etc. etc. But maybe the people on this forum will reconsider their refusal to judge a team's quality in part by its number of drafted players.
Quote from: Chris '03Quote from: BearLoverCan somebody please plot a graph with # of draft picks on the X axis and that team's PWR on the Y axis, to test the correlation?
Current RPI vs Picks: https://imgur.com/4UKHy5q
Also, quick question: from where did you derive the number of picks on each team? I know BU and BC each have 14, but the graph stops at 13. The CHN rosters are missing some drafted players, if that's where you got the data.
Quote from: BearLoverQuote from: Chris '03Quote from: BearLoverCan somebody please plot a graph with # of draft picks on the X axis and that team's PWR on the Y axis, to test the correlation?
Current RPI vs Picks: https://imgur.com/4UKHy5q
Also, quick question: from where did you derive the number of picks on each team? I know BU and BC each have 14, but the graph stops at 13. The CHN rosters are missing some drafted players, if that's where you got the data.
I pulled it from CHN quickly. So any errors are likely mine first and CHN's second to the extent any of their data is incomplete.
I think one issue driving the data is that about half the teams are at 0. When I limit the graph to looking only at teams with 2-10 picks, the relationship is less pronounced.
Here's that: https://imgur.com/7MSd1rC
If you adjust the y axis to emphasize the slope of the line, you get this: https://imgur.com/xujvKP0
For anyone curious as to ECAC specifically: https://imgur.com/t0RznBN
I'm a lawyer, not a stats guy by any means. So do with what you will with this.
Quote from: BearLoverQuote from: Chris '03Quote from: BearLoverCan somebody please plot a graph with # of draft picks on the X axis and that team's PWR on the Y axis, to test the correlation?
Current RPI vs Picks: https://imgur.com/4UKHy5q
Awesome job, thank you! One note—I think the correlation doesn't jump off the page as much as it would if the scale of the Y-axis were adjusted for the fact that RPI ranges from 42% to 62% (excluding Stonehill). Which is to say, there is an EXTREMELY positive correlation this year between draft picks and RPI. Obviously, correlation=/=causation. Better programs attract better talent, etc. etc. But maybe the people on this forum will reconsider their refusal to judge a team's quality in part by its number of drafted players.
I'm not sure anyone refuses to consider draft picks,
in part, as a tool for evaluating quality of a team. I think the general sentiment is that you overvalue it by a large margin.
Its just like the star ranking in college fball. Yeah you miss on the star rankings a decent amount..
But if one team has 20 4stars and one team has 3, you dont have be near as good as spotting the talent. You go 30% and you have 6 Ohio state players and the other team goes 100% still only has 3..
You do that over 2-3 years and now its 18 vs 9.. It just adds up. If both teams go at 50% its even worse 30 vs 4..
Quote from: Chris '03Quote from: BearLoverQuote from: Chris '03Quote from: BearLoverCan somebody please plot a graph with # of draft picks on the X axis and that team's PWR on the Y axis, to test the correlation?
Current RPI vs Picks: https://imgur.com/4UKHy5q
Awesome job, thank you! One note—I think the correlation doesn't jump off the page as much as it would if the scale of the Y-axis were adjusted for the fact that RPI ranges from 42% to 62% (excluding Stonehill). Which is to say, there is an EXTREMELY positive correlation this year between draft picks and RPI. Obviously, correlation=/=causation. Better programs attract better talent, etc. etc. But maybe the people on this forum will reconsider their refusal to judge a team's quality in part by its number of drafted players.
I'm not sure anyone refuses to consider draft picks, in part, as a tool for evaluating quality of a team. I think the general sentiment is that you overvalue it by a large margin.
Yes, I should have said: "in significant part." I feel pretty strongly about my position but not interested in rehashing this argument now. Thanks for the graphs.
Quote from: Chris '03Quote from: BearLoverQuote from: Chris '03Quote from: BearLoverCan somebody please plot a graph with # of draft picks on the X axis and that team's PWR on the Y axis, to test the correlation?
Current RPI vs Picks: https://imgur.com/4UKHy5q
Also, quick question: from where did you derive the number of picks on each team? I know BU and BC each have 14, but the graph stops at 13. The CHN rosters are missing some drafted players, if that's where you got the data.
I pulled it from CHN quickly. So any errors are likely mine first and CHN's second to the extent any of their data is incomplete.
I think one issue driving the data is that about half the teams are at 0. When I limit the graph to looking only at teams with 2-10 picks, the relationship is less pronounced.
Here's that: https://imgur.com/7MSd1rC
If you adjust the y axis to emphasize the slope of the line, you get this: https://imgur.com/xujvKP0
For anyone curious as to ECAC specifically: https://imgur.com/t0RznBN
I'm a lawyer, not a stats guy by any means. So do with what you will with this.
That's all very useful stuff. I'd say there are three types of teams: good teams loaded with picks, good teams not loaded with picks, and bad teams not loaded with picks.
And then Harvard.
Quote from: DafatoneQuote from: Chris '03Quote from: BearLoverQuote from: Chris '03Quote from: BearLoverCan somebody please plot a graph with # of draft picks on the X axis and that team's PWR on the Y axis, to test the correlation?
Current RPI vs Picks: https://imgur.com/4UKHy5q
Also, quick question: from where did you derive the number of picks on each team? I know BU and BC each have 14, but the graph stops at 13. The CHN rosters are missing some drafted players, if that's where you got the data.
I pulled it from CHN quickly. So any errors are likely mine first and CHN's second to the extent any of their data is incomplete.
I think one issue driving the data is that about half the teams are at 0. When I limit the graph to looking only at teams with 2-10 picks, the relationship is less pronounced.
Here's that: https://imgur.com/7MSd1rC
If you adjust the y axis to emphasize the slope of the line, you get this: https://imgur.com/xujvKP0
For anyone curious as to ECAC specifically: https://imgur.com/t0RznBN
I'm a lawyer, not a stats guy by any means. So do with what you will with this.
That's all very useful stuff. I'd say there are three types of teams: good teams loaded with picks, good teams not loaded with picks, and bad teams not loaded with picks.
And then Harvard.
You can't count!
You can't count!
Our boy jack Malone helps us out adding to BCs lead over UNH which is now at 3-0
Wow, that was just unconscienably lazy by RPI.
Quote from: BearLoverQuote from: Chris '03Quote from: BearLoverCan somebody please plot a graph with # of draft picks on the X axis and that team's PWR on the Y axis, to test the correlation?
Current RPI vs Picks: https://imgur.com/4UKHy5q
Also, quick question: from where did you derive the number of picks on each team? I know BU and BC each have 14, but the graph stops at 13. The CHN rosters are missing some drafted players, if that's where you got the data.
for the love of all that's holy, please tell me who they are
Quote from: BearLoverQuote from: Chris '03Quote from: BearLoverQuote from: Chris '03Quote from: BearLoverCan somebody please plot a graph with # of draft picks on the X axis and that team's PWR on the Y axis, to test the correlation?
Current RPI vs Picks: https://imgur.com/4UKHy5q
Awesome job, thank you! One note—I think the correlation doesn't jump off the page as much as it would if the scale of the Y-axis were adjusted for the fact that RPI ranges from 42% to 62% (excluding Stonehill). Which is to say, there is an EXTREMELY positive correlation this year between draft picks and RPI. Obviously, correlation=/=causation. Better programs attract better talent, etc. etc. But maybe the people on this forum will reconsider their refusal to judge a team's quality in part by its number of drafted players.
I'm not sure anyone refuses to consider draft picks, in part, as a tool for evaluating quality of a team. I think the general sentiment is that you overvalue it by a large margin.
Yes, I should have said: "in significant part." I feel pretty strongly about my position but not interested in rehashing this argument now. Thanks for the graphs.
I realize you may not be a fan of nuanced arguments -- but this is really a recent trend, and not nearly in your favor as you think it is.
Certainly top blue blood programs have always gotten more draft picks. But since college hockey has started to attract more high end players, those players also leave early. This means that over the last 10-15 years, many of those blue blood programs have struggled, despite the large number of draft picks.
This has changed basically over the last 3 years or so ... The main reason for this is because they've learned to augment their high-end talent with four-year players. ALSO - they have learned just in the last year or two that they can use the transfer portal to effectively plug in for the players who left - using smaller schools as farm systems.
Point being, this is a very recent correlation, to the extent that it's bigger now. Historically, it's not nearly as true as you think. The 1999 Maine team, for example, famously won a national title with all but zero future NHL players. Certainly there are others if we want to go through the entire history. And no Big Ten school has won a national title in 17 years.
It all may be changing, but again, that's a very recent thing. And it's unfortunate where the NCAA has headed.
Quote from: adamwQuote from: BearLoverQuote from: Chris '03Quote from: BearLoverCan somebody please plot a graph with # of draft picks on the X axis and that team's PWR on the Y axis, to test the correlation?
Current RPI vs Picks: https://imgur.com/4UKHy5q
Also, quick question: from where did you derive the number of picks on each team? I know BU and BC each have 14, but the graph stops at 13. The CHN rosters are missing some drafted players, if that's where you got the data.
for the love of all that's holy, please tell me who they are
BU—Shane Lachance
BC—Andre Gasseau
(Other teams are missing some too but I only went through BU/BC because those were the teams I mentioned above.)
Quote from: adamwQuote from: BearLoverQuote from: Chris '03Quote from: BearLoverQuote from: Chris '03Quote from: BearLoverCan somebody please plot a graph with # of draft picks on the X axis and that team's PWR on the Y axis, to test the correlation?
Current RPI vs Picks: https://imgur.com/4UKHy5q
Awesome job, thank you! One note—I think the correlation doesn't jump off the page as much as it would if the scale of the Y-axis were adjusted for the fact that RPI ranges from 42% to 62% (excluding Stonehill). Which is to say, there is an EXTREMELY positive correlation this year between draft picks and RPI. Obviously, correlation=/=causation. Better programs attract better talent, etc. etc. But maybe the people on this forum will reconsider their refusal to judge a team's quality in part by its number of drafted players.
I'm not sure anyone refuses to consider draft picks, in part, as a tool for evaluating quality of a team. I think the general sentiment is that you overvalue it by a large margin.
Yes, I should have said: "in significant part." I feel pretty strongly about my position but not interested in rehashing this argument now. Thanks for the graphs.
I realize you may not be a fan of nuanced arguments -- but this is really a recent trend, and not nearly in your favor as you think it is.
Certainly top blue blood programs have always gotten more draft picks. But since college hockey has started to attract more high end players, those players also leave early. This means that over the last 10-15 years, many of those blue blood programs have struggled, despite the large number of draft picks.
This has changed basically over the last 3 years or so ... The main reason for this is because they've learned to augment their high-end talent with four-year players. ALSO - they have learned just in the last year or two that they can use the transfer portal to effectively plug in for the players who left - using smaller schools as farm systems.
Point being, this is a very recent correlation, to the extent that it's bigger now. Historically, it's not nearly as true as you think. The 1999 Maine team, for example, famously won a national title with all but zero future NHL players. Certainly there are others if we want to go through the entire history. And no Big Ten school has won a national title in 17 years.
It all may be changing, but again, that's a very recent thing. And it's unfortunate where the NCAA has headed.
Who said I'm not a fan of nuanced arguments? I enjoy all arguments, nuanced or otherwise. Anyway, I agree. The transfer portal has eliminated the one disadvantage the blue bloods had. I am hopeful things will be better once the fifth year of eligibility goes away.
Quote from: BearLoverQuote from: adamwQuote from: BearLoverQuote from: Chris '03Quote from: BearLoverCan somebody please plot a graph with # of draft picks on the X axis and that team's PWR on the Y axis, to test the correlation?
Current RPI vs Picks: https://imgur.com/4UKHy5q
Also, quick question: from where did you derive the number of picks on each team? I know BU and BC each have 14, but the graph stops at 13. The CHN rosters are missing some drafted players, if that's where you got the data.
for the love of all that's holy, please tell me who they are
BU—Shane Lachance
BC—Andre Gasseau
(Other teams are missing some too but I only went through BU/BC because those were the teams I mentioned above.)
Thank you - if you know of others - feel free to send. I usually try to get them all each summer when the draft happens. Unfortunately this happens when the player wasn't committed at the time of the draft - and then commits a year later or something - which was the case with both these guys, since they were drafted in 2021.
in the CCHA if St thomas loses to Augustana they could end up in first play in the league and be under .500
Minn st is the only team really over .500 by more than a game.
Quote from: BearLoverThere are some YouTube videos with yours of college hockey facilities. For example, UMass, which provides its players 24-hour access to a rink and gym exclusive to the hockey team:
https://youtu.be/RpyhCEHQwNs?si=MsvSS5QcM5AdO1dd
Contrast with the Cornell men's team, which shares its ice with the women's team, figure skating team, club team, intramurals, and recreational skaters, and which has a couple exclusive bikes and treadmills.
Like a normal university where students and student athletes share some facilities.
Although it has been decades since you could play touch football or Frisbee on Schoellkopf. Or pickup anything on Upper Alumni Fields.
Quote from: billhowardQuote from: BearLoverThere are some YouTube videos with yours of college hockey facilities. For example, UMass, which provides its players 24-hour access to a rink and gym exclusive to the hockey team:
https://youtu.be/RpyhCEHQwNs?si=MsvSS5QcM5AdO1dd
Contrast with the Cornell men's team, which shares its ice with the women's team, figure skating team, club team, intramurals, and recreational skaters, and which has a couple exclusive bikes and treadmills.
Like a normal university where students and student athletes share some facilities.
Although it has been decades since you could play touch football or Frisbee on Schoellkopf. Or pickup anything on Upper Alumni Fields.
Did they really stop letting people play on the fball field. It doesnt seem that long that I was there during lunch and kids were playing on it?
Nah they don't kick people off of the football field unless there is a practice. It is very hard to find room in any of the indoor facilities these days though.
Maine blew a late lead and refused to stay out of the box in falling in OT.
Merrimack helps keep UNH below us
Omaha wins on IT over WMU to help a little
Minn ST is now the only team over .500 in the CCHA.
MSU the big game left tonight
Quote from: upprdeckMaine blew a late lead and refused to stay out of the box in falling in OT.
Merrimack helps keep UNH below us
Omaha wins on IT over WMU to help a little
Minn ST is now the only team over .500 in the CCHA.
MSU the big game left tonight
UNH is so far behind at this point that if they catch us, we have other problems. We need to root for the following teams to lose:
—Michigan
—SCSU
—Providence
—Western Michigan
—UMass
And we want ASU to win out.
Another example of how the system plays out is Cornell vs Prov
They dont play but they have played 6 games vs COP.
Cornell 4-0-2 no losses. Prov 3-3 three losses and it means nothing
Playing a harder schedule I get, but when you play past a certain number of COP and have a much higher result that should count for something.
Mich loses so up to 13.
Win next week and Hope BU takes card of Prov and BC does the same to Umass
Quote from: upprdeckMich loses so up to 13.
Win next week and Hope BU takes card of Prov and BC does the same to Umass
Actually, we were up to 13 before the UM v MSU game went final. In fact, that final actually narrowed the gap between us and St. Cloud.
Quote from: Jeff Hopkins '82Quote from: upprdeckMich loses so up to 13.
Win next week and Hope BU takes card of Prov and BC does the same to Umass
Actually, we were up to 13 before the UM v MSU game went final. In fact, that final actually narrowed the gap between us and St. Cloud.
Per CHN we are now exactly tied with SCSU (in RPI and therefore in PWR).
Quote from: BearLoverQuote from: Jeff Hopkins '82Quote from: upprdeckMich loses so up to 13.
Win next week and Hope BU takes card of Prov and BC does the same to Umass
Actually, we were up to 13 before the UM v MSU game went final. In fact, that final actually narrowed the gap between us and St. Cloud.
Per CHN we are now exactly tied with SCSU (in RPI and therefore in PWR).
And when I say we were up on SCSU, we were ahead by 0.0001 RPI point. :-O
It remains a weird year for RPI. We are at .5590, which would have us around 8th most years.
Even last yr a PWR of .5800 gets you 3rd and this yr its ninth..
Non of it matters until the end. Hard to know where it was last yr at this time.
There have been almost no upsets the last few weekends. We need WMU/SCSU/Prov/UMass/Mich to lose to a bad team, but that hasn't been happening. It would also probably be good if, when these teams happen to play each other (eg. SCSU plays WMU for two games in a couple weeks), one team sweeps rather than the teams splitting.
It doesn't help to have almost the whole ECAC be pretty poor. Better play brings them up and that helps Cornell and brings down all the teams OC that they lost to.
Its hard to have a 4-5-6 loss season no matter what teams you play.
Quote from: upprdeckIt doesn't help to have almost the whole ECAC be pretty poor. Better play brings them up and that helps Cornell and brings down all the teams OC that they lost to.
Its hard to have a 4-5-6 loss season no matter what teams you play.
RPI is meant to adjust for this, so I still don't really buy these arguments. But yes, I think that, in the case where there are only one or two good teams in our league (as is the case this year), there is added importance for the ECAC to do well out of conference. For example, if Harvard were to do the impossible and beat BC on Monday, then all the ECAC teams would benefit in SOS and all the HE teams would suffer. The difference being that there are two HE teams directly ahead of us that we are trying to catch, but no ECAC teams.
In short: RPI is meant to adjust for SOS, so how good our league is or isn't shouldn't really affect RPI. Whether Harvard is good or bad, that should be a wash from our perspective.* Remember, our league being better = we are more likely to lose when we play in-league games. However, what we DO want to happen is for Harvard to get lucky in out of conference games, even if overall they are bad.
*actually, we do benefit from Harvard and the rest of our league sucking, once we are outside the context of RPI/PWR, because it increases our odds of winning the ECAC tournament.
Unless I am grossly misunderstanding your argument or RPI, you have it exactly backwards. RPI's adjustment for SoS is what brings it into consideration. Far from diminishing it, it quantifies it. That is indeed the whole point of RPI: to compare members of different sets which do not have direct common games.
Without something like RPI we would go by winning percentage and then you would be correct: beating on the Little Sisters of the Poor would be optimal. But with RPI, and quite rightly, a great record against bum opponents is discounted, and surviving with a mediocre record against great opponents is rewarded.
As in society, a rising tide raises all boats. As in society, gross inequality damages even those on top. We need a stronger ECAC to support a stronger Cornell. We have nothing to lose but our chains.
Quote from: TrotskyAs in society, a rising tide raises all boats. As in society, gross inequality damages even those on top. We need a stronger ECAC to support a stronger Cornell. We have nothing to lose but our chains.
As you've said in other places, these things are cyclical. There has been, at least for the ECAC, quite a bit of coaching turnover lately, if you count lately as "in the last 10 years." The long-termers, with the exception of Whittet, who has never been good at anything except keeping in the good graces of the administration it seems, and Allain, who seems to have lost the plot entirely, have either stabilized or raised the profiles of their programs. (I have to believe Teddy's year this year is a blip, but we shall see.) I think Brekke will eventually right the ship at St. Lawrence; I think Casey has Clarkson back on an even keel, but there are institutional and wider college hockey reasons that are making it difficult to keep a team together; and I feel for Ron Fogarty at Princeton, the purgatory of coaches. The new hires are good, particularly Harder at Colgate (no surprise considering how he played) and Cashman at Dartmouth. Whoever coaches at RPI has a tough road, it seems, but at least the institution itself is turning around.
What bothers me more is that Pandolfo and Greg Brown seem to be very, very good. And we already know Carvel and Leaman are good. And now a sleeping giant has been awoken by Ben Barr. We're at a coaching disadvantage to Hockey East for the first time in a while, and that's a tough row to hoe. In order to have a chance of winning nationally, we need to be the best in the East. And, since our relative stature depends on so few games that we tend to play against the West, we desperately need the rest of the league, particularly Harvard and Quinnipiac, to take care of business vs. Hockey East.
It's tough to "go it alone," but that's where we (and Quinnipiac) are this year. I hope this situation plays out better in the future, and I hope we can stay on top of that rising tide.
Quote from: TrotskyUnless I am grossly misunderstanding your argument or RPI, you have it exactly backwards. RPI's adjustment for SoS is what brings it into consideration. Far from diminishing it, it quantifies it. That is indeed the whole point of RPI: to compare members of different sets which do not have direct common games.
Without something like RPI we would go by winning percentage and then you would be correct: beating on the Little Sisters of the Poor would be optimal. But with RPI, and quite rightly, a great record against bum opponents is discounted, and surviving with a mediocre record against great opponents is rewarded.
As in society, a rising tide raises all boats. As in society, gross inequality damages even those on top. We need a stronger ECAC to support a stronger Cornell. We have nothing to lose but our chains.
You're misunderstanding (or I'm not being clear enough). My argument is as follows: the reason RPI exists is because we need a way to compare teams who play different schedules of varying degrees of difficulty. RPI (if it works correctly) bakes in the disparity in difficulty of schedule. It is supposed to tell you the "true" strength of a team, accounting for the schedule it plays.
Let's take two teams as an example: Cornell and Providence. Currently RPI judges those teams to be about equal, i.e. their "true" strength is about equal. If RPI is correctly adjudicating teams, then, if Cornell and Providence swapped conferences for a year, their RPI would be UNCHANGED. Cornell (or Providence) should have the same RPI whether they are in the ECAC, HE, the CCHA, or are independent.
Because a team's "true" strength is not a function of its conference (it exists independently of its conference), RPI will not change based on the conference of a team.
Remember, if Cornell were to play in HE, or the ECAC were to be better, then Cornell's SOS would improve, but it's win% would go down. Its RPI, which, again, judges the "true" strength of Cornell, would be UNCHANGED. Therefore, being in a stronger conference would not benefit Cornell (or any team).
Quote from: BearLoverRemember, if Cornell were to play in HE, or the ECAC were to be better, then Cornell's SOS would improve, but it's win% would go down. Its RPI, which, again, judges the "true" strength of Cornell, would be UNCHANGED. Therefore, being in a stronger conference would not benefit Cornell (or any team).
Basically, you're forgetting about the effects of small sample spaces. We can play lights out for the rest of the year, the kind of hockey that would put us just behind BU and BC, and it just doesn't matter. I think our absolute ceiling is a 2-seed. In this climate, that also means we have an infinitesimal margin for error, and any hiccup vs. a lower-ranked team really hurts.
We'd be better off in a better conference, particularly with our young team, because not every night is the season. Frankly, I think it would allow us to make further progress toward the freer but still defensively responsible kind of hockey we've been playing for the last ten years. So too would 36 games instead of 29, but I digress.
Quote from: Scersk '97Quote from: TrotskyAs in society, a rising tide raises all boats. As in society, gross inequality damages even those on top. We need a stronger ECAC to support a stronger Cornell. We have nothing to lose but our chains.
As you've said in other places, these things are cyclical. There has been, at least for the ECAC, quite a bit of coaching turnover lately, if you count lately as "in the last 10 years." The long-termers, with the exception of Whittet, who has never been good at anything except keeping in the good graces of the administration it seems, and Allain, who seems to have lost the plot entirely, have either stabilized or raised the profiles of their programs. (I have to believe Teddy's year this year is a blip, but we shall see.) I think Brekke will eventually right the ship at St. Lawrence; I think Casey has Clarkson back on an even keel, but there are institutional and wider college hockey reasons that are making it difficult to keep a team together; and I feel for Ron Fogarty at Princeton, the purgatory of coaches. The new hires are good, particularly Harder at Colgate (no surprise considering how he played) and Cashman at Dartmouth. Whoever coaches at RPI has a tough road, it seems, but at least the institution itself is turning around.
What bothers me more is that Pandolfo and Greg Brown seem to be very, very good. And we already know Carvel and Leaman are good. And now a sleeping giant has been awoken by Ben Barr. We're at a coaching disadvantage to Hockey East for the first time in a while, and that's a tough row to hoe. In order to have a chance of winning nationally, we need to be the best in the East. And, since our relative stature depends on so few games that we tend to play against the West, we desperately need the rest of the league, particularly Harvard and Quinnipiac, to take care of business vs. Hockey East.
It's tough to "go it alone," but that's where we (and Quinnipiac) are this year. I hope this situation plays out better in the future, and I hope we can stay on top of that rising tide.
The real problem is that the blue bloods now take advantage of the transfer portal to plug holes left by early departures. In the past, BU, BC, etc. would get the best recruits, but they would leave early, so teams with solid four-year players like Cornell could beat them with size and experience, and without having to deal with gaping holes in their roster. That has changed. Continuing to take BU, and BC
examples:
—In the past, BU would not have had a goalie this year. They have an extremely talented set of forwards and defensemen, but they would have had a big problem in goal. But they were able to poach Caron from Brown, so now instead of a major weakness they have a highly serviceable goalie.
—In the past, BC would have struggled with size and experience, despite the most talented freshman class in the country. Sure, they'd be bringing in an entire forward line of first round draft picks, including the 4th and 8th overall picks. But what about the PK, what about going up against a bigger, stronger, more experienced team? Well, now they can just add players from the portal like our own Jack Malone, a graduate transfer who plays on their PK/third line, to plug that hole.
Quote from: BearLover—In the past, BU would not have had a goalie this year. They have an extremely talented set of forwards and defensemen, but they would have had a big problem in goal. But they were able to poach Caron from Brown, so now instead of a major weakness they have a highly serviceable goalie.
—In the past, BC would have struggled with size and experience, despite the most talented freshman class in the country. Sure, they'd be bringing in an entire forward line of first round draft picks, including the 4th and 8th overall picks. But what about the PK, what about going up against a bigger, stronger, more experienced team? Well, now they can just add players from the portal like our own Jack Malone, a graduate transfer who plays on their PK/third line, to plug that hole.
Oh, you're super right about that, and I hope, as you've hoped elsewhere, that the end of the COVID extra eligibility will smooth this out a bit.
While I don't hold it against the guys, it's beyond frustrating to see our guys playing for other teams instead of finishing out four years on the Hill.
Quote from: Scersk '97Quote from: BearLoverRemember, if Cornell were to play in HE, or the ECAC were to be better, then Cornell's SOS would improve, but it's win% would go down. Its RPI, which, again, judges the "true" strength of Cornell, would be UNCHANGED. Therefore, being in a stronger conference would not benefit Cornell (or any team).
Basically, you're forgetting about the effects of small sample spaces. We can play lights out for the rest of the year, the kind of hockey that would put us just behind BU and BC, and it just doesn't matter. I think our absolute ceiling is a 2-seed. In this climate, that also means we have an infinitesimal margin for error, and any hiccup vs. a lower-ranked team really hurts.
We'd be better off in a better conference, particularly with our young team, because not every night is the season. Frankly, I think it would allow us to make further progress toward the freer but still defensively responsible kind of hockey we've been playing for the last ten years. So too would 36 games instead of 29, but I digress.
Just to be clear, I'm not suggesting that if you changed a bunch of variables (such as conference), RPI would literally be the exact same in a small sample. I'm making simplistic assumptions to demonstrate my point. But if you want me to edit my point to cover sample size, then I revise my point as follows (which has no effect on my ultimate conclusion):
If Cornell plays one million games in the ECAC, and Providence plays one million games in HE, and then they swapped conferences and each played one million more games, their RPI would be UNCHANGED.
The rest of your post is kind of beside the point. This is purely a discussion about RPI, not benefits of a stronger/weaker schedule outside of that context. Yeah, the experience of getting to play vs strong teams every night could benefit us. But that's not an RPI question. Also, your general premise is kind of invalidated by the success of Quinnipiac over the past decade. They've been wildly successful while playing the same (or an ever easier) schedule as us. We have also had the 1-seed multiple times over the past few years playing in an easy conference.
Just because RPI accounts for SOS doesn't mean that it does it accurately. Right now I think that winning percentage should hold more weight in the formula but I'm sure if cornell was having a 13-10 season in hockey east I would think otherwise.
Quote from: BearLoverJust to be clear, I'm not suggesting that if you changed a bunch of variables (such as conference), RPI would literally be the exact same in a small sample. I'm making simplistic assumptions to demonstrate my point. But if you want me to edit my point to cover sample size, then I revise my point as follows (which has no effect on my ultimate conclusion):
If Cornell plays one million games in the ECAC, and Providence plays one million games in HE, and then they swapped conferences and each played one million more games, their RPI would be UNCHANGED.
Thanks? Believe me when I say the math isn't beyond me.
The quote of yours I have issue with is as above:
Quote from: BearLoverRemember, if Cornell were to play in HE, or the ECAC were to be better, then Cornell's SOS would improve, but it's win% would go down. Its RPI, which, again, judges the "true" strength of Cornell, would be UNCHANGED. Therefore, being in a stronger conference would not benefit Cornell (or any team).
I disagree, which has been my point, but perhaps we're talking past each other. This year, sure, our RPI is whatever it is, and it'd be the same in Hockey East. Yes, I get math.
Yet, over the long term, I'm not so sure. We've got a great coach who would find a way to succeed with us in whatever league we were in. I think having to live with the ECAC's general decrepitude in the early 2000s was detrimental to our development, and that situation only worked its way out over a ten-year swing into the 2010s. Our margin for error necessitates our play, whether our coach has the preference for sacrificing some offense for shutdown defense or not. (News bulletin, I think he does but he's light years ahead of where we used to be.) I contend that Yale, Union, and QU (why pick those?) benefitted from being able to have a bit more of a margin for error because the ECAC was better. I think we did too during that time, and continue to.
I weep for 2020, but I otherwise don't want to go down that hole. I like where we are, and if we can just fix the special teams we're going to be an exceedingly dangerous team, whether that's this year or next year.
Quote from: chimpfoodJust because RPI accounts for SOS doesn't mean that it does it accurately. Right now I think that winning percentage should hold more weight in the formula but I'm sure if cornell was having a 13-10 season in hockey east I would think otherwise.
Yeah, whether the RPI is an accurate measurement is a different topic. Obviously, nobody really knows. We can see how teams from weak conferences perform in the NCAA tournament, but that is a tiny and noisy sample size. I think most HE/NCHC/Big 10 fans would say the current formula benefits teams like Cornell.
Quote from: Scersk '97Quote from: BearLoverJust to be clear, I'm not suggesting that if you changed a bunch of variables (such as conference), RPI would literally be the exact same in a small sample. I'm making simplistic assumptions to demonstrate my point. But if you want me to edit my point to cover sample size, then I revise my point as follows (which has no effect on my ultimate conclusion):
If Cornell plays one million games in the ECAC, and Providence plays one million games in HE, and then they swapped conferences and each played one million more games, their RPI would be UNCHANGED.
Thanks? Believe me when I say the math isn't beyond me.
The quote of yours I have issue with is as above:
Quote from: BearLoverRemember, if Cornell were to play in HE, or the ECAC were to be better, then Cornell's SOS would improve, but it's win% would go down. Its RPI, which, again, judges the "true" strength of Cornell, would be UNCHANGED. Therefore, being in a stronger conference would not benefit Cornell (or any team).
I disagree, which has been my point, but perhaps we're talking past each other. This year, sure, our RPI is whatever it is, and it'd be the same in Hockey East. Yes, I get math.
Yet, over the long term, I'm not so sure. We've got a great coach who would find a way to succeed with us in whatever league we were in. I think having to live with the ECAC's general decrepitude in the early 2000s was detrimental to our development, and that situation only worked its way out over a ten-year swing into the 2010s. Our margin for error necessitates our play, whether our coach has the preference for sacrificing some offense for shutdown defense or not. (News bulletin, I think he does but he's light years ahead of where we used to be.) I contend that Yale, Union, and QU (why pick those?) benefitted from being able to have a bit more of a margin for error because the ECAC was better. I think we did too during that time, and continue to.
I weep for 2020, but I otherwise don't want to go down that hole. I like where we are, and if we can just fix the special teams we're going to be an exceedingly dangerous team, whether that's this year or next year.
Yeah, I think we're talking past each other. It sounds like we are in agreement that, purely from the perspective of our RPI in a given season, it doesn't matter how good our conference is. Your point is that our weak league has hindered our development across seasons, whether due to recruiting or style of play or something else. I honestly don't know, but I think that's a different topic.
I do think that, while Schafer is a great coach, we will never have the resources/freedom to do what the very top programs do. I see no reason to believe that the peak we're capable of reaching in the ECAC would be higher if we played in a different conference. Frankly, we've reached really impressive heights under our current situation.
well sometime in the next 2-10 yrs we will have to find out what a diff coach can.. I doubt he will be here when he is 70 so the window is probably even smaller.
Well if Whelan isn't going to login here, I'll be that guy:
Can we just use KRACH already?
Quote from: upprdeckwell sometime in the next 2-10 yrs we will have to find out what a diff coach can.. I doubt he will be here when he is 70 so the window is probably even smaller.
I'm going to go out on a really short limb and say that the odds of finding another coach that does as good a job, are about 5%.
The limitations to the program by the athletic dept are staggering..
Quote from: adamwQuote from: upprdeckwell sometime in the next 2-10 yrs we will have to find out what a diff coach can.. I doubt he will be here when he is 70 so the window is probably even smaller.
I'm going to go out on a really short limb and say that the odds of finding another coach that does as good a job, are about 5%.
And that may be generous
Quote from: adamwQuote from: upprdeckwell sometime in the next 2-10 yrs we will have to find out what a diff coach can.. I doubt he will be here when he is 70 so the window is probably even smaller.
I'm going to go out on a really short limb and say that the odds of finding another coach that does as good a job, are about 5%.
Umm, considering it's probably going to be Syer, it will be much higher than 5%.
Quote from: RichHWell if Whelan isn't going to login here, I'll be that guy:
Can we just use KRACH already?
Cornell ranks in NC$$, per CHN (https://www.collegehockeynews.com/ratings/krach/):
PWR 13
RPI 13
KRACH 12
Record 7
SoS 28
Quote from: BearLoverQuote from: adamwQuote from: upprdeckwell sometime in the next 2-10 yrs we will have to find out what a diff coach can.. I doubt he will be here when he is 70 so the window is probably even smaller.
I'm going to go out on a really short limb and say that the odds of finding another coach that does as good a job, are about 5%.
Umm, considering it's probably going to be Syer, it will be much higher than 5%.
We can hope but Mike is a one off. He loves Cornell hockey as much as anyone can. His ability to change and his love of his players is something we have to hope that Ben can duplicate.
Quote from: BearLoverQuote from: adamwQuote from: upprdeckwell sometime in the next 2-10 yrs we will have to find out what a diff coach can.. I doubt he will be here when he is 70 so the window is probably even smaller.
I'm going to go out on a really short limb and say that the odds of finding another coach that does as good a job, are about 5%.
Umm, considering it's probably going to be Syer, it will be much higher than 5%.
I hope it's not for a long time but also wondered if topher would come back behind the bench for the job.
We had a spate of guys who went into coaching but I think it has dried up:
* 90 Casey Jones
* 91 Shaun Hannah
* 91 Tim Vanini
* 92 Karl Williams
* 08 Topher Scott
Did Justin Krueger follow his dad into coaching after retiring in 2022?
Quote from: TrotskyWe had a spate of guys who went into coaching but I think it has dried up:
* 90 Casey Jones
* 91 Shaun Hannah
* 91 Tim Vanini
* 92 Karl Williams
* 08 Topher Scott
Did Justin Krueger follow his dad into coaching after retiring in 2022?
In terms of pro leagues, Cam Abbott is coaching in Sweden (with Chris as the GM of the team). And Jessica Campbell is coaching in the AHL. They seem focused on pro hockey, but maybe they might be interested in the ol' alma mater?
Quote from: WederQuote from: TrotskyWe had a spate of guys who went into coaching but I think it has dried up:
* 90 Casey Jones
* 91 Shaun Hannah
* 91 Tim Vanini
* 92 Karl Williams
* 08 Topher Scott
Did Justin Krueger follow his dad into coaching after retiring in 2022?
In terms of pro leagues, Cam Abbott is coaching in Sweden (with Chris as the GM of the team). And Jessica Campbell is coaching in the AHL. They seem focused on pro hockey, but maybe they might be interested in the ol' alma mater?
I feel like Cam was a dark horse candidate for a recent NHL coaching gig.
I thought they left this season.
There are only two realistic candidates to take over when Schafer finally decides to call it quits: Casey Jones and Ben Syer. Casey has had some decent success at Clarkson, but I think it's very likely to be Syer, assuming he doesn't take a job elsewhere in the interim. Syer is young and has been top assistant for many years during some of the best times for the program. It's not going to be Topher. Topher has never been top assistant anywhere and currently he appears to be out of coaching entirely. Last year he was Director of Hockey Operations for Michigan. At the moment I'd say it's over 50% likely to be Syer, maybe 15% Jones, and otherwise someone totally out of the blue.
Quote from: BearLoverThere are only two realistic candidates to take over when Schafer finally decides to call it quits: Casey Jones and Ben Syer. Casey has had some decent success at Clarkson, but I think it's very likely to be Syer, assuming he doesn't take a job elsewhere in the interim. Syer is young and has been top assistant for many years during some of the best times for the program. It's not going to be Topher. Topher has never been top assistant anywhere and currently he appears to be out of coaching entirely. Last year he was Director of Hockey Operations for Michigan. At the moment I'd say it's over 50% likely to be Syer, maybe 15% Jones, and otherwise someone totally out of the blue.
While Syer would be the logical option, to say there would be "only two realistic candidates" is an overstatement.
Quote from: BearLoverThere are only two realistic candidates to take over when Schafer finally decides to call it quits: Casey Jones and Ben Syer. Casey has had some decent success at Clarkson, but I think it's very likely to be Syer, assuming he doesn't take a job elsewhere in the interim. Syer is young and has been top assistant for many years during some of the best times for the program. It's not going to be Topher. Topher has never been top assistant anywhere and currently he appears to be out of coaching entirely. Last year he was Director of Hockey Operations for Michigan. At the moment I'd say it's over 50% likely to be Syer, maybe 15% Jones, and otherwise someone totally out of the blue.
Topher is still listed as such on the Michigan web site. https://mgoblue.com/staff-directory/topher-scott/3886
Quote from: David HardingQuote from: BearLoverThere are only two realistic candidates to take over when Schafer finally decides to call it quits: Casey Jones and Ben Syer. Casey has had some decent success at Clarkson, but I think it's very likely to be Syer, assuming he doesn't take a job elsewhere in the interim. Syer is young and has been top assistant for many years during some of the best times for the program. It's not going to be Topher. Topher has never been top assistant anywhere and currently he appears to be out of coaching entirely. Last year he was Director of Hockey Operations for Michigan. At the moment I'd say it's over 50% likely to be Syer, maybe 15% Jones, and otherwise someone totally out of the blue.
Topher is still listed as such on the Michigan web site. https://mgoblue.com/staff-directory/topher-scott/3886
Thanks. My Internet ADD apparently interrupted my own fact checking here. For those not paying attention, Topher seems to have been brought in to help Michigan out of the "cultural" mess that Mel Pearson helped to orchestrate.
I predict success as Topher doesn't walk around with a dyed wolverine on his head.
Quote from: underskillI thought they left this season.
Oh, it looks like the Abbotts were let go in December.
Quote from: underskillI thought they left this season.
Oh, it looks like the Abbotts were let go in December.
I hear Mark Morris is available...
Small pWR bump if Harv wins tonight.. Barely any drop if they lose.
Quote from: David HardingQuote from: BearLoverThere are only two realistic candidates to take over when Schafer finally decides to call it quits: Casey Jones and Ben Syer. Casey has had some decent success at Clarkson, but I think it's very likely to be Syer, assuming he doesn't take a job elsewhere in the interim. Syer is young and has been top assistant for many years during some of the best times for the program. It's not going to be Topher. Topher has never been top assistant anywhere and currently he appears to be out of coaching entirely. Last year he was Director of Hockey Operations for Michigan. At the moment I'd say it's over 50% likely to be Syer, maybe 15% Jones, and otherwise someone totally out of the blue.
Topher is still listed as such on the Michigan web site. https://mgoblue.com/staff-directory/topher-scott/3886
https://thehockeythinktank.com/thank-you-michigan/
Looks like Topher decided to move on.
I'm glad he extricated himself. That was and maybe still is a toxic program.
Does Director of Hockey Operations indicate he has decided to move from behind the bench to go in the Athletic Director direction?
Quote from: TrotskyI'm glad he extricated himself. That was and maybe still is a toxic program.
Does Director of Hockey Operations indicate he has decided to move from behind the bench to go in the Athletic Director direction?
Reading his goodbye message, he's silent about anything pushing him away from Michigan and identifies the attraction of family ties in Chicago as the cause of his leaving. He also identifies "Hockey Think Tank" (his own company) as his future occupation. If he can make HTT sufficiently successful, that seems to be where he wants to end up.
Not even NESN cares about the Bean Plop consy.
I should probably just shut up - but I'm not good at that.
I think Ben Syer and Topher are great guys. Neither will be the next coach. Casey Jones is one of my favorite people in hockey, and I think he's a great coach. However, he's only 4 years younger than Coach Schafer - and so it won't be him either.
Quote from: adamwI should probably just shut up - but I'm not good at that.
I think Ben Syer and Topher are great guys. Neither will be the next coach. Casey Jones is one of my favorite people in hockey, and I think he's a great coach. However, he's only 4 years younger than Coach Schafer - and so it won't be him either.
Why won't Ben Syer be the next coach?
Quote from: BearLoverQuote from: adamwI should probably just shut up - but I'm not good at that.
I think Ben Syer and Topher are great guys. Neither will be the next coach. Casey Jones is one of my favorite people in hockey, and I think he's a great coach. However, he's only 4 years younger than Coach Schafer - and so it won't be him either.
Why won't Ben Syer be the next coach?
Perhaps some guys are cut out to be 2nd in command but not top dog?
coaching at Cornell requires a bit of something not everyone has. Going from Assistant to the main job requires more than some want to put in.
We dont know the answer until we do.
Harvard lost to BC. We appear to have gone up in RPI by .0001.
Quote from: scoop85Quote from: BearLoverQuote from: adamwI should probably just shut up - but I'm not good at that.
I think Ben Syer and Topher are great guys. Neither will be the next coach. Casey Jones is one of my favorite people in hockey, and I think he's a great coach. However, he's only 4 years younger than Coach Schafer - and so it won't be him either.
Why won't Ben Syer be the next coach?
Perhaps some guys are cut out to be 2nd in command but not top dog?
Perhaps, but the onus is on adamw to say that. Otherwise, it seems reasonable to assume that a longtime assistant at a successful program would not turn down a big pay increase and an opportunity to lead the program.
Just before NE's Fontaine wins IT in OT I'm yelling "It's a shame this is going to be determined by a shootout!"
I'm a bit worried about northeastern as a team that could sneak into an at large bid or win the HE tourney. Nothing is scarier than the team with the hot goalie.
Topher was a guest on CHN podcast this week.
https://www.collegehockeynews.com/ontheair/ (https://www.collegehockeynews.com/ontheair/)
BU and Providence tie. BU dominated OT but couldn't pull it out. Shootout coming up.
UNH just beat Maine. Not helpful for Cornell's PWR situation.
3-way tie for 12 right now.
Getting no help from Minn-Duluth. They are already down 2-0 to Denver. (We played UMD twice so we care about them for SOS, plus if they sweep Denver it opens up a very outside chance that Denver goes into a tailspin and drops below us in the rankings.)
Quote from: BearLoverGetting no help from Minn-Duluth. They are already down 2-0 to Denver. (We played UMD twice so we care about them for SOS, plus if they sweep Denver it opens up a very outside chance that Denver goes into a tailspin and drops below us in the rankings.)
A local bar had that game on one of the televisions and Duluth just looks much slower and less fluid than Cornell. Denver is clearly a better team and I would expect them to sweep
BC > BU AFter that nothing in HE is anything to write home about.. They all score on breakdowns with speed but dont do much else to generate offense.
BC beat UMass tomorrow is good
I think we want WMU or St cloud to sweep maybe?
Now #17 CC up 2-1 on #2 NoDak. Uh-oh.
CC incoming...they have the 16th best RPI and they're about to beat #2 NoDak. So now we are going to have to contend with them, too.
Quote from: BearLoverGetting no help from Minn-Duluth. They are already down 2-0 to Denver. (We played UMD twice so we care about them for SOS, plus if they sweep Denver it opens up a very outside chance that Denver goes into a tailspin and drops below us in the rankings.)
Now 4-4
Quote from: Chris '03Quote from: BearLoverGetting no help from Minn-Duluth. They are already down 2-0 to Denver. (We played UMD twice so we care about them for SOS, plus if they sweep Denver it opens up a very outside chance that Denver goes into a tailspin and drops below us in the rankings.)
Now 4-4
And Denver wins in ot
I don't pretend to understand it, but somehow the late results pushed us UP from 13th to 12th...?!
Quote from: BeeeejI don't pretend to understand it, but somehow the late results pushed us UP from 13th to 12th...?!
An OT loss is still a partial win. Combine that with the strong opponent and we get nudged upwards.
The one that really amused me was us moving up in RPI a tiny bit when Harvard lost the Beanpot consolation round in regulation.
Tied for 11 in PWR.
Separation between PWR 1 and 2, and between PWR 9 and 10.
Just keep winning.
Winning percentage (SoS Rank):
1. .7798 BC (2)
2. .7667 Quinnipiac (25)
3. .7419 Wisconsin (13)
[color=#b31313]4. .7361 Cornell (28)[/color]
5. .7356 North Dakota (8)
6. .7278 Michigan State (9)
7. .6667 Denver (5)
8. .7011 BU (1)
9. .6875 Arizona State (30)
10. .6845 Western Michigan (24)
CC has tied NoDak 2-2 through two periods despite being badly outshot. Time to !!!!PANIC!!!!
Quote from: BearLoverCC has tied NoDak 2-2 through two periods despite being badly outshot. Time to !!!!PANIC!!!!
Not sure if I'll panic but if I do I'll PANIC!!. Using six extra exclamation points is inexcusable and I'm considering the same punishment that you meted out in Grady last night.
PANIC is a registered trademark of Mets fandom. Herewith consider this a permanent injunction to prevent infringement of that copyright.
Quote from: martyQuote from: BearLoverCC has tied NoDak 2-2 through two periods despite being badly outshot. Time to !!!!PANIC!!!!
Not sure if I'll panic but if I do I'll PANIC!!. Using six extra exclamation points is inexcusable and I'm considering the same punishment that you meted out in Grady last night.
CC up 5-2 now. That warrants eight exclamation point, at minimum. Actually, though, this is pretty bad. We are now in a pack of 8 teams fighting for 2-4 spots. We have had, and will continue to have, by far the easiest schedule of these teams. We probably cannot afford to lose more than one game between now and the ECAC finals if we want an at-large bid.
Cc won and we go up. I don't get it.
Quote from: arugulaCc won and we go up. I don't get it.
Probably because St. Cloud goes down a smidge having gone 0-1-1 with NoDak, whom CC just beat. It's bizarre but entertaining.
Quote from: arugulaCc won and we go up. I don't get it.
Don't pay too much attention to our exact rank. Instead, look at how many teams are bunched around us in RPI (which basically determines PWR). What's important here is that another team that prior to this weekend was far behind us in the PWR (CC) has now jumped ahead of us. Going into this weekend, it looked like there were 6 teams fighting for ~2-4 at-large bids: UMass, Prov, Western Mich, Michigan, SCSU, and us. Now, you can add UNH and CC, both of whom swept top 5 opponents. We are less likely to make the NCAA tournament than we were when the weekend started.
Went to bed last night, all games were done, we were 14th. Wake up and we are 15th. Logical.
BC over Umass today would get us back to 14..
You can see a path to Cornell not losing a game from Dec 2 on, winning out, winning 3 ECAC games and losing to Quin and not getting in with PWR being so close.
A 6 loss season mignt not be enough.
Do any of these metrics factor in how a team is doing recently, versus how they played in November 2023?
Quote from: arugulaWent to bed last night, all games were done, we were 14th. Wake up and we are 15th. Logical.
I guess it might have been late games complete but not yet factored?
Quote from: George64Do any of these metrics factor in how a team is doing recently, versus how they played in November 2023?
It used to be part of the criteria. "Record in last 10" or something similar back when the smoke-filled room still held a scrap of power. I remember being against that then.
Quote from: arugulaWent to bed last night, all games were done, we were 14th. Wake up and we are 15th. Logical.
if all games were truly done - this would not be the case. There was a game in Alaska that ended about 2 a.m. ET -- so, did you account for that?
Quote from: George64Do any of these metrics factor in how a team is doing recently, versus how they played in November 2023?
This lays out the history of changes over time
https://www.collegehockeynews.com/info/?d=pwcrpi
Although I'm just now realizing that even though it specifically references the former "Last 16" (or Last 20) criterion - it doesn't say exactly when it was removed. Off the top of my head, I want to say around 2002 or 2003. Probably not later than that. You've given me another thing to do today - to look it up and add it to that document.
I'm actually trying add a "recency bias" to the KRACH (which is what is used by the Probability Matrix) -- however, given that I'm not anywhere close to a math PhD - what I have is pretty arbitrary and I'm not comfortable adding it. I mean, no matter what it will be arbitrary, but it would be nice to have some basis in mathematical principles.
Didn't think Alaska-LIU was close enough but I guess it could be at the second level.
And Colgate lost to LIU last month.
BC leads Massachusetts 1-0 early.
Quote from: RichHQuote from: George64Do any of these metrics factor in how a team is doing recently, versus how they played in November 2023?
It used to be part of the criteria. "Record in last 10" or something similar back when the smoke-filled room still held a scrap of power. I remember being against that then.
With 10" you know you can get screwed. ;-)
Quote from: arugulaDidn't think Alaska-LIU was close enough but I guess it could be at the second level.
you're talking about differences of .0001 in team's RPIs ... every game affects everyone else's RPI at least a little.
Quote from: arugulaBC leads Massachusetts 1-0 early.
UMass leads 3-2 late 2nd.
BC 5 Massachusetts 4 late third. Great game.
Gauthier to the empty net. BC 6-4. Jack Malone getting a lot of time for BC
Phew. BC hangs on.
And we're back to 14th.
Quote from: arugulaBC 5 Massachusetts 4 late third. Great game.
Jack Malone playing on both PP and PK and getting a lot of playing time in general. Plus I think I saw an "A" on his jersey. Frankly, it feels extra unfair that a fifth year senior from Cornell goes to play for BC. Watching this game, BC looks like the most talented team in the country. I'm sure Malone would have played his fifth year at Cornell if that were allowed. Instead, he serves a much needed role to plug the one weakness BC has.
But, more importantly at this point, crisis averted. UMass winning this game would have made them very hard for Cornell to catch.
Quote from: BearLoverQuote from: arugulaBC 5 Massachusetts 4 late third. Great game.
Jack Malone playing on both PP and PK and getting a lot of playing time in general. Plus I think I saw an "A" on his jersey. Frankly, it feels extra unfair that a fifth year senior from Cornell goes to play for BC. Watching this game, BC looks like the most talented team in the country. I'm sure Malone would have played his fifth year at Cornell if that were allowed. Instead, he serves a much needed role to plug the one weakness BC has.
But, more importantly at this point, crisis averted. UMass winning this game would have made them very hard for Cornell to catch.
Next week UMass plays a pair with UNH in a battle of two teams Cornell would like to see lose...
BC avg 5+ a game since the new yr and they have a PP as well.. Gonna be a tough team to beat
This weeks games to help us.
ND splitting with Mich would be nice
trying to keep umass and NH behind us so maybe a split there
St Cloud/WMU. ST cloud jumps them ahead of us but puts WMU behind us. A split moves ST cloud down. A WMU sweep knocks them back a good chunk
CC/Omaha CC winning or splitting doesnt do much for us, IMAH sweeping knocks CC back and moves up a small amount
Cornell a tie/win keeps us about the same, 2 wins could jump a team
I'd like to see NoDak back in the #2 slot. That way, they get to play the CCHA autobid in Sioux Falls.
If they're #3 (with BU #2), BU gets the CCHA in Providence or Springfield and we get UND in Sioux Falls (assuming we're still at 14).
Quote from: Jeff Hopkins '82I'd like to see NoDak back in the #2 slot. That way, they get to play the CCHA autobid in Sioux Falls.
If they're #3 (with BU #2), BU gets the CCHA in Providence or Springfield and we get UND in Sioux Falls (assuming we're still at 14).
I'm willing to get jumped by rabid NoDak fans for the cause.
Quote from: DafatoneQuote from: Jeff Hopkins '82I'd like to see NoDak back in the #2 slot. That way, they get to play the CCHA autobid in Sioux Falls.
If they're #3 (with BU #2), BU gets the CCHA in Providence or Springfield and we get UND in Sioux Falls (assuming we're still at 14).
I'm willing to get jumped by rabid NoDak fans for the cause.
I'm OK with that. I just don't feel like hauling myself out to Sioux Falls (especially if we lose the first game).
Quote from: upprdeckThis weeks games to help us.
ND splitting with Mich would be nice
trying to keep umass and NH behind us so maybe a split there
St Cloud/WMU. ST cloud jumps them ahead of us but puts WMU behind us. A split moves ST cloud down. A WMU sweep knocks them back a good chunk
CC/Omaha CC winning or splitting doesnt do much for us, IMAH sweeping knocks CC back and moves up a small amount
Cornell a tie/win keeps us about the same, 2 wins could jump a team
We don't want Notre Dame to split with UMich. We want them to sweep. Notre Dame is way too far behind us in RPI for them to be a concern. In the event Notre Dame catches us, we will likely be too low in the Pairwise to have a shot anyway.
The goal is to be in position for an at-large bid by the end of the season. The goal is not to be as high as possible by the end of this weekend. For example, CC splitting with Omaha (rather than sweeping) might not let us jump CC this weekend, but it would put us in much better position to jump CC by the end of the year. Moreover, it's really just about getting into the NCAAs, and less about our rank assuming we do get in. For example, Western splitting with SCSU would give us the best shot of a higher seed, but it may lower our chance of getting into the tourney in the first place (because then we would be neck and neck with both rather than well ahead of one of them).
Here's what I think we should root for:
Notre Dame sweeps Mich
UNH splits with UMass
Omaha sweeps CC
Western sweeps SCSU (this one I'm not certain of, it's possible a split maximizes our chances)
UML beats Prov (just a one-game series)
Quote from: Jeff Hopkins '82Quote from: DafatoneQuote from: Jeff Hopkins '82I'd like to see NoDak back in the #2 slot. That way, they get to play the CCHA autobid in Sioux Falls.
If they're #3 (with BU #2), BU gets the CCHA in Providence or Springfield and we get UND in Sioux Falls (assuming we're still at 14).
I'm willing to get jumped by rabid NoDak fans for the cause.
I'm OK with that. I just don't feel like hauling myself out to Sioux Falls (especially if we lose the first game).
But this bustling metropolis has an airport with 8 gates! And they're putting in a parking garage!
Quote from: DafatoneQuote from: Jeff Hopkins '82Quote from: DafatoneQuote from: Jeff Hopkins '82I'd like to see NoDak back in the #2 slot. That way, they get to play the CCHA autobid in Sioux Falls.
If they're #3 (with BU #2), BU gets the CCHA in Providence or Springfield and we get UND in Sioux Falls (assuming we're still at 14).
I'm willing to get jumped by rabid NoDak fans for the cause.
I'm OK with that. I just don't feel like hauling myself out to Sioux Falls (especially if we lose the first game).
But this bustling metropolis has an airport with 8 gates! And they're putting in a parking garage!
Uh huh. And?
Quote from: Jeff Hopkins '82Quote from: DafatoneQuote from: Jeff Hopkins '82Quote from: DafatoneQuote from: Jeff Hopkins '82I'd like to see NoDak back in the #2 slot. That way, they get to play the CCHA autobid in Sioux Falls.
If they're #3 (with BU #2), BU gets the CCHA in Providence or Springfield and we get UND in Sioux Falls (assuming we're still at 14).
I'm willing to get jumped by rabid NoDak fans for the cause.
I'm OK with that. I just don't feel like hauling myself out to Sioux Falls (especially if we lose the first game).
But this bustling metropolis has an airport with 8 gates! And they're putting in a parking garage!
Uh huh. And?
Sioux Falls actually has more going for it than you'd expect. Largely because your expectations are gonna be extremely low.
Better food than you'd think, some nice parks, some very cool state parks not too far off, and all the cornfields you desire for your existential crisis needs.
Quote from: DafatoneQuote from: Jeff Hopkins '82Quote from: DafatoneQuote from: Jeff Hopkins '82Quote from: DafatoneQuote from: Jeff Hopkins '82I'd like to see NoDak back in the #2 slot. That way, they get to play the CCHA autobid in Sioux Falls.
If they're #3 (with BU #2), BU gets the CCHA in Providence or Springfield and we get UND in Sioux Falls (assuming we're still at 14).
I'm willing to get jumped by rabid NoDak fans for the cause.
I'm OK with that. I just don't feel like hauling myself out to Sioux Falls (especially if we lose the first game).
But this bustling metropolis has an airport with 8 gates! And they're putting in a parking garage!
Uh huh. And?
Sioux Falls actually has more going for it than you'd expect. Largely because your expectations are gonna be extremely low.
Better food than you'd think, some nice parks, some very cool state parks not too far off, and all the cornfields you desire for your existential crisis needs.
Bottom line: if we lose the first game, I can drive home from Providence or Springfield. I have to stick around or go somewhere nearby if we're in St. Louis or Sioux Falls.
Safe to assume Cornell is going to have to win every single game until the ECAC finals if they want to make the NCAAs.
Quote from: BearLoverSafe to assume Cornell is going to have to win every single game until the ECAC finals if they want to make the NCAAs.
Absolutely not safe to assume that.
There's more hockey left than people realize.
several teams around us play much harder games they can lose for sure. Need some of that to happen.
Stop measuring every breath with respect to the NC$$s. The important fact of every season is the ECACs. As with football and basketball, the NCAAs is a kitschy doohickey that was added to the end to make sportswriters feel important. Yeah, it would be fun to win, but measuring a season against it is like measuring your life by the size of your coffin.
Quote from: DafatoneQuote from: BearLoverSafe to assume Cornell is going to have to win every single game until the ECAC finals if they want to make the NCAAs.
Absolutely not safe to assume that.
There's more hockey left than people realize.
I disagree. Cornell is going to be 16th in the PWR after tonight. It will not be especially close to any of the teams ahead of them in RPI. Cornell has 6 games left before the ECAC final (7 if quarterfinals go to 3 games). Cornell will play zero teams in the top half of the Pairwise before the ECAC final. Therefore, any loss from now until the ECAC final will badly hurt us in the Pairwise. Assuming we lose the ECAC final (i.e., we're in the world where we need an at-large bid to get into the NCAAs), then that means another loss is probably fatal because we would be 5-2 or 6-2 against a very weak schedule.
Remember, the teams we have left to play are:
StL (53)
Union (37)
RPI (56)
Someone bad
Someone bad
Someone bad
Quote from: TrotskyStop measuring every breath with respect to the NC$$s. The important fact of every season is the ECACs. As with football and basketball, the NCAAs is a kitschy doohickey that was added to the end to make sportswriters feel important. Yeah, it would be fun to win, but measuring a season against it is like measuring your life by the size of your coffin.
Greg you are literally the only person who thinks this. It's not that I don't go absolutely apeshit over every round we advance as its own little prize, it's not that I don't consider winning the ECAC tournament a euphoric experience. i do! but not even making the NCAA tournament with as good a team as we have is a failed season.
Quote from: TrotskyStop measuring every breath with respect to the NC$$s. The important fact of every season is the ECACs. As with football and basketball, the NCAAs is a kitschy doohickey that was added to the end to make sportswriters feel important. Yeah, it would be fun to win, but measuring a season against it is like measuring your life by the size of your coffin.
This is, obviously, a completely ridiculous take. If all that mattered was the ECACs, I wouldn't watch our non-conference games. I would stop watching the regular season once we had secured a bye because there's barely any reward for getting a higher seed beyond the top 4. Basically, the regular season wouldn't matter at all, because we're such a better program than most of the rest of the league that we can sleepwalk our way to a bye every year. Most stupid of all, the success of the entire season would ride on the few ECAC tournament games. If you root for a hockey team and all you care about are a subset of less than five games, you're going to have a bad time because hockey games have extreme variance.
Case in point: if all that mattered was the ECACs, I'd have tuned out weeks ago once it became clear Cornell was going to get a bye. I would not have watched tonight's game, and I wouldn't have cared that Cornell blew a lead with under 30 seconds to go because it wouldn't have mattered at all.
So just win the ECACs.
A national title without an ECAC Championship would be kind of hollow anyway, in my opinion.
In my dreams, the NCAAs would just be the regular season "champs" and champions of each conference, with those who unify those crowns getting preferential seeding. A couple of prelim rounds if necessary and the Frozen Four. Would be great.
Quote from: BearLoverQuote from: DafatoneQuote from: BearLoverSafe to assume Cornell is going to have to win every single game until the ECAC finals if they want to make the NCAAs.
Absolutely not safe to assume that.
There's more hockey left than people realize.
I disagree. Cornell is going to be 16th in the PWR after tonight. It will not be especially close to any of the teams ahead of them in RPI. Cornell has 6 games left before the ECAC final (7 if quarterfinals go to 3 games). Cornell will play zero teams in the top half of the Pairwise before the ECAC final. Therefore, any loss from now until the ECAC final will badly hurt us in the Pairwise. Assuming we lose the ECAC final (i.e., we're in the world where we need an at-large bid to get into the NCAAs), then that means another loss is probably fatal because we would be 5-2 or 6-2 against a very weak schedule.
Remember, the teams we have left to play are:
StL (53)
Union (37)
RPI (56)
Someone bad
Someone bad
Someone bad
We were what, 11th a few games ago? Opponent quality is certainly important, but we still go up a good chunk for winning against weak teams.
It's really up to what everyone else does. Keep in mind that if two of the teams near us face off in an earlier round of their conference tournament, one of them's gonna lose twice.
Quote from: Scersk '97So just win the ECACs.
A national title without an ECAC Championship would be kind of hollow anyway, in my opinion.
In my dreams, the NCAAs would just be the regular season "champs" and champions of each conference, with those who unify those crowns getting preferential seeding. A couple of prelim rounds if necessary and the Frozen Four. Would be great.
Lol. Okay dude. Quinnipiac's title last year felt hollow because they didn't win the ECAC? Cornell winning its first national title in 54 years would feel hollow because it didn't win a league tournament it's won 12 times since then? Just mind-numbing how people think this way.
Yea, enough of the "national title is a fun little desert" thing. It's the ultimate goal.
Different people value different things.
If I had to choose, personally, I'd take the national title. But I understand people who think the ECAC is what matters and the NCAAs are just a fun bonus exercise.
Quote from: DafatoneDifferent people value different things.
If I had to choose, personally, I'd take the national title. But I understand people who think the ECAC is what matters and the NCAAs are just a fun bonus exercise.
It's not just about what you value, though. Well, I guess it ultimately boils down to that, but it's just so silly to watch a 35-game season and only care about how a couple of the games go. Whether we make the NCAAs is a function of our entire season. How we do in the ECACs is just a couple of games that invariably come down to a few random events. If we make the NCAAs, we had a good season, because over a large sample size we were one of the best teams in the whole nation.
Quote from: DafatoneDifferent people value different things.
If I had to choose, personally, I'd take the national title. But I understand people who think the ECAC is what matters and the NCAAs are just a fun bonus exercise.
Basically my position. This ECAC drought is killing me.
The national "drought?" Whatever. I'm glad we've been legitimate contenders a few times. Super rare for other teams to even have that. We're not North Dakota and never will be.
Quote from: BearLoverWell, I guess it ultimately boils down to that, but it's just so silly to watch a 35-game season and only care about how a couple of the games go. Whether we make the NCAAs is a function of our entire season.
Creeping into the NCAAs as the 14th team in is not a great season either. That's why I like going to the extra show with hardware in hand. Anyone who wins a championship is a contender.
I do not mind the national title drought. We punch above our weight and get to the NCAAs a lot and win plenty of R16 games. If we win a natty I will go emotional supernova. I do mind the ECAC drought, despite the emergence of Quinnipiac, because it has felt more than attainable plenty of times since our last win.
It is still a big deal to miss the NCAA tournament because we can't take care of business against teams like Yale and Clarkson and Dartmouth. As a second-tier conference we simply don't have that margin for error and I can't shrug it off.
Quote from: Scersk '97Quote from: BearLoverWell, I guess it ultimately boils down to that, but it's just so silly to watch a 35-game season and only care about how a couple of the games go. Whether we make the NCAAs is a function of our entire season.
Creeping into the NCAAs as the 14th team in is not a great season either. That's why I like going to the extra show with hardware in hand. Anyone who wins a championship is a contender.
obviously getting in with an ECAC trophy cures all ills. but if we have to win the conference title to make the tournament, history is mostly unkind.
and i watched yale skate with the big trophy after getting in as an at-large with a 4-seed. it looked fun.
Right but NoDak fans think they should win the national championship every year (delusional / entitled). I think most of us just think we need ONE asap because we have had really good teams a lot over the past 30 years. Also exacerbated by Yale/Union/Qpac.
We can't be hyperventilating over every single game's Pairwise impact.
Western Michigan tied up St. Cloud! Cmon Western Michigan!
Quote from: ugarteIt is still a big deal to miss the NCAA tournament because we can't take care of business against teams like Yale and Clarkson and Dartmouth. As a second-tier conference we simply don't have that margin for error and I can't shrug it off.
If I remember correctly, Bearlover hates it when the ECAC is full of strong teams. He's never been part of the "rising tide" faction.
But, as you rightly identify, that small margin for error is what we get.
Quote from: Scersk '97Quote from: ugarteIt is still a big deal to miss the NCAA tournament because we can't take care of business against teams like Yale and Clarkson and Dartmouth. As a second-tier conference we simply don't have that margin for error and I can't shrug it off.
If I remember correctly, Bearlover hates it when the ECAC is full of strong teams. He's never been part of the "rising tide" faction.
But, as you rightly identify, that small margin for error is what we get.
To be fair to BL, he hates the rising tide unless Cornell is at the crest of the wave and a bit better than the rest of the league.
Quote from: Scersk '97If I remember correctly, Bearlover hates it when the ECAC is full of strong teams. He's never been part of the "rising tide" faction.
But, as you rightly identify, that small margin for error is what we get.
i take no position on whether the rising tide is good or bad for us. i have no idea. what i know is that right now we're at low tide and at risk of running aground.
Quote from: ugarteQuote from: Scersk '97If I remember correctly, Bearlover hates it when the ECAC is full of strong teams. He's never been part of the "rising tide" faction.
But, as you rightly identify, that small margin for error is what we get.
i take no position on whether the rising tide is good or bad for us. i have no idea. what i know is that right now we're at low tide and at risk of running aground.
Absolutely agree. No matter how much I enjoy Harvard's dysfunction, they're a symptom of a really weak league this year.
Quote from: Scersk '97Quote from: ugarteQuote from: Scersk '97If I remember correctly, Bearlover hates it when the ECAC is full of strong teams. He's never been part of the "rising tide" faction.
But, as you rightly identify, that small margin for error is what we get.
i take no position on whether the rising tide is good or bad for us. i have no idea. what i know is that right now we're at low tide and at risk of running aground.
Absolutely agree. No matter how much I enjoy Harvard's dysfunction, they're a symptom of a really weak league this year.
one thing i'll say for the rising tide: we get to watch better hockey week to week, and if you consider watching a game more than just a scoreboard race until the clock says 0:00, good hockey > bad hockey, win or lose. If i'm killing time and flipping through ESPN+ I watch BC, not Canisius.
Quote from: ugarteQuote from: TrotskyStop measuring every breath with respect to the NC$$s. The important fact of every season is the ECACs. As with football and basketball, the NCAAs is a kitschy doohickey that was added to the end to make sportswriters feel important. Yeah, it would be fun to win, but measuring a season against it is like measuring your life by the size of your coffin.
Greg you are literally the only person who thinks this
Apparently not.
Quote from: BearLoverQuote from: DafatoneQuote from: BearLoverSafe to assume Cornell is going to have to win every single game until the ECAC finals if they want to make the NCAAs.
Absolutely not safe to assume that.
There's more hockey left than people realize.
I disagree. Cornell is going to be 16th in the PWR after tonight. It will not be especially close to any of the teams ahead of them in RPI. Cornell has 6 games left before the ECAC final (7 if quarterfinals go to 3 games). Cornell will play zero teams in the top half of the Pairwise before the ECAC final. Therefore, any loss from now until the ECAC final will badly hurt us in the Pairwise. Assuming we lose the ECAC final (i.e., we're in the world where we need an at-large bid to get into the NCAAs), then that means another loss is probably fatal because we would be 5-2 or 6-2 against a very weak schedule.
Remember, the teams we have left to play are:
StL (53)
Union (37)
RPI (56)
Someone bad
Someone bad
Someone bad
And Clarkson is 36. So we just tied/lost to "someone bad."
Quote from: TrotskyQuote from: ugarteQuote from: TrotskyStop measuring every breath with respect to the NC$$s. The important fact of every season is the ECACs. As with football and basketball, the NCAAs is a kitschy doohickey that was added to the end to make sportswriters feel important. Yeah, it would be fun to win, but measuring a season against it is like measuring your life by the size of your coffin.
Greg you are literally the only person who thinks this
Apparently not.
based on what? the closest support i think you got was "don't condemn him, there is more than one way to like things."
to the extent that anyone else focuses on the conference over the natty it is because the conference is reasonably attainable (and impressive and thrilling). the national championship is the stretch goal, and we are blessed to root for a program that can realistically dream of it.
we have a banner that says 1967 and 1970 on it hanging in the rafters. it isn't there because of ncaa greedheads, it's there because every good team in the country wants to prove that they're the best, whatever conference they play in.
even in losing last night there is path with the RPIs being so close that we could jump right back up to 13-14th or so tonight with all the teams in that 12-16 group being real close.
CC losing tonight is big and hopefully Denver takes them in 2 weeks
Mich losing to ND and then getting help from Minn next week
umass we beed UNH and then maine in 2 weeks as well
Prov we need to slip up somewhere for sure
so basically we need those teams in the top 10 to play well
Again, the logical extension of Trotsky's argument is to not care about the regular season, not care about out of conference games, and put the entire season's weight on 2-5 games in March. Last night's game was irrelevant in Trotsky's view, I guess. Which is nice for him, because if he actually cared about Cornell hockey having national success, last night was about as crushing a series of events as you could imagine in the regular season.
Quote from: Jeff Hopkins '82Quote from: BearLoverQuote from: DafatoneQuote from: BearLoverSafe to assume Cornell is going to have to win every single game until the ECAC finals if they want to make the NCAAs.
Absolutely not safe to assume that.
There's more hockey left than people realize.
I disagree. Cornell is going to be 16th in the PWR after tonight. It will not be especially close to any of the teams ahead of them in RPI. Cornell has 6 games left before the ECAC final (7 if quarterfinals go to 3 games). Cornell will play zero teams in the top half of the Pairwise before the ECAC final. Therefore, any loss from now until the ECAC final will badly hurt us in the Pairwise. Assuming we lose the ECAC final (i.e., we're in the world where we need an at-large bid to get into the NCAAs), then that means another loss is probably fatal because we would be 5-2 or 6-2 against a very weak schedule.
Remember, the teams we have left to play are:
StL (53)
Union (37)
RPI (56)
Someone bad
Someone bad
Someone bad
And Clarkson is 36. So we just tied/lost to "someone bad."
Correct
Quote from: BearLoverAgain, the logical extension of Trotsky's argument is to not care about the regular season, not care about out of conference games, and put the entire season's weight on 2-5 games in March. Last night's game was irrelevant in Trotsky's view, I guess. Which is nice for him, because if he actually cared about Cornell hockey having national success, last night was about as crushing a series of events as you could imagine in the regular season.
I share Greg's perspective on things, but I also can say I cared about last night's game quite a bit. I don't need to rehearse why.
But you do you, man. Your ad hominem stuff is getting tiresome, again.
Quote from: Scersk '97I share Greg's perspective on things,
dammit scersk this is terrible timing
Quote from: ugarteQuote from: Scersk '97I share Greg's perspective on things,
dammit scersk this is terrible timing
Well, I don't share his perspective on ALL things. That would be... disturbing? ::banana::
Quote from: Scersk '97Quote from: BearLoverAgain, the logical extension of Trotsky's argument is to not care about the regular season, not care about out of conference games, and put the entire season's weight on 2-5 games in March. Last night's game was irrelevant in Trotsky's view, I guess. Which is nice for him, because if he actually cared about Cornell hockey having national success, last night was about as crushing a series of events as you could imagine in the regular season.
I share Greg's perspective on things, but I also can say I cared about last night's game quite a bit. I don't need to rehearse why.
But you do you, man. Your ad hominem stuff is getting tiresome, again.
If the ECAC tournament is what you care about, last night was a positive development, because our chance of getting the 2-seed actually went up. Hmm...
Quote from: BearLoverQuote from: Scersk '97Quote from: BearLoverAgain, the logical extension of Trotsky's argument is to not care about the regular season, not care about out of conference games, and put the entire season's weight on 2-5 games in March. Last night's game was irrelevant in Trotsky's view, I guess. Which is nice for him, because if he actually cared about Cornell hockey having national success, last night was about as crushing a series of events as you could imagine in the regular season.
I share Greg's perspective on things, but I also can say I cared about last night's game quite a bit. I don't need to rehearse why.
But you do you, man. Your ad hominem stuff is getting tiresome, again.
If the ECAC tournament is what you care about, last night was a positive development, because our chance of getting the 2-seed actually went up. Hmm...
And if group think on eLynah is what you care about you haven't been paying attention.
Something not related to hand wringing over PWR:
Check out the third period box from Alaska last night. https://alaskananooks.com/sports/mens-ice-hockey/stats/2023-24/arizona-state-university/boxscore/4500
Not sure I've seen "persisting in misconduct" before.
Quote from: Chris '03Something not related to hand wringing over PWR:
Check out the third period box from Alaska last night. https://alaskananooks.com/sports/mens-ice-hockey/stats/2023-24/arizona-state-university/boxscore/4500
Not sure I've seen "persisting in misconduct" before.
first of all, hoo boy. second of all, goddamnit, ASU!
Quote from: ugarteQuote from: Chris '03Something not related to hand wringing over PWR:
Check out the third period box from Alaska last night. https://alaskananooks.com/sports/mens-ice-hockey/stats/2023-24/arizona-state-university/boxscore/4500
Not sure I've seen "persisting in misconduct" before.
first of all, hoo boy. second of all, goddamnit, ASU!
Does "persisting in misconduct" mean not getting off the ice after being called for a game misconduct?
Quote from: BearLoverAgain, the logical extension of Trotsky's argument is to not care about the regular season, not care about out of conference games, and put the entire season's weight on 2-5 games in March.
No, it's not. It's to care about the game that is in front of your eyes, right now. Treat today's game as the end, not a means to the end of the NC$$s.
Be alive, not merely instrumental.
Quote from: ugarteQuote from: Scersk '97I share Greg's perspective on things,
dammit scersk this is terrible timing
This post, right here, is why you are awesome. :-)
I promise to let you crass materialists alone in future, and not chide you as dupes of the emptiness of the national title hedonic treadmill, obscuring the spiritual transcendence of the ECACs.
Quote from: Chris '03Something not related to hand wringing over PWR:
Check out the third period box from Alaska last night. https://alaskananooks.com/sports/mens-ice-hockey/stats/2023-24/arizona-state-university/boxscore/4500
Not sure I've seen "persisting in misconduct" before.
Let's go to the video!
Quote from: TrotskyQuote from: ugarteQuote from: Scersk '97I share Greg's perspective on things,
dammit scersk this is terrible timing
This post, right here, is why you are awesome. :-)
gotta keep it light. in the end it's something i watch from my couch that gets interrupted by life all the time.
Quote from: martyQuote from: Chris '03Something not related to hand wringing over PWR:
Check out the third period box from Alaska last night. https://alaskananooks.com/sports/mens-ice-hockey/stats/2023-24/arizona-state-university/boxscore/4500
Not sure I've seen "persisting in misconduct" before.
Let's go to the video!
"Scouts (https://youtu.be/MGbemxG_suc)?"
Quote from: Chris '03Something not related to hand wringing over PWR:
Check out the third period box from Alaska last night. https://alaskananooks.com/sports/mens-ice-hockey/stats/2023-24/arizona-state-university/boxscore/4500
Not sure I've seen "persisting in misconduct" before.
"Face masking"?
I'm sorry, but -- what the hell is Dartmouth doing in fourth place??
Quote from: Give My RegardsI'm sorry, but -- what the hell is Dartmouth doing in fourth place??
Drinking, presumably.
Quote from: TrotskyQuote from: Give My RegardsI'm sorry, but -- what the hell is Dartmouth doing in fourth place??
Drinking, presumably.
Keeping it warm for Clarkson?
I thought we would drop much more in RPI so I'm glad to see us still at 16. We are still very much in this but certainly need to win out until the ECAC final, I could see us possibly making it even with an OT win next weekend, but lets not test that.
Quote from: Jeff Hopkins '82Quote from: TrotskyQuote from: Give My RegardsI'm sorry, but -- what the hell is Dartmouth doing in fourth place??
Drinking, presumably.
Keeping it warm for Clarkson?
Dartmouth actually wins the two-way tiebreaker against Clarkson.
interesting we would still be in 16th even had we held on for the win last night.
Quote from: TrotskyQuote from: martyQuote from: Chris '03Something not related to hand wringing over PWR:
Check out the third period box from Alaska last night. https://alaskananooks.com/sports/mens-ice-hockey/stats/2023-24/arizona-state-university/boxscore/4500
Not sure I've seen "persisting in misconduct" before.
Let's go to the video!
"Scouts (https://youtu.be/MGbemxG_suc)?"
Here's everything from the network
https://youtu.be/b1LOSFR_vTY?si=aUR6Xhx8opDbP2mP
Early look at this week, so many games that matter now
BC needs to take care of UNH to stop them from creeping up
can Minn sweep Michigan If not Mich will jump up a good chunk ahead of us
CC with a split I dont think we can pass them but too many unknowns right now
Umass Lowell winning one would be be big to close the Umass lead
UND winning 2 would be huge as well to bring WMU into range
Denver sweep on the road doubtful but would bring ST cloud back into range as well
can merrimack take one off or Prov
Looks like we root for Maine to finish well the next 2 weeks.
We got about every good result we could have wanted last night but Cornell winning.
But even if we win the game we still would be in 16th place
Still a slim path to get past CC/WMU if they collapse but not likley
If we sweep the quarters, beat let's say Colgate in the semis, and lose to qpac in the finals, how much help would we need for an at large? We talking 65% of in? 5%?
Quote from: CU2007If we sweep the quarters, beat let's say Colgate in the semis, and lose to qpac in the finals, how much help would we need for an at large? We talking 65% of in? 5%?
id call it like a 10 percent chance, could be wrong though.
Quote from: CU2007If we sweep the quarters, beat let's say Colgate in the semis, and lose to qpac in the finals, how much help would we need for an at large? We talking 65% of in? 5%?
I guess we'd want chalk, to strengthen our SOS and also all our opponents.
Ideally, of course, it's chalk until we upset the Skating Deerticks.
Quote from: chimpfoodQuote from: CU2007If we sweep the quarters, beat let's say Colgate in the semis, and lose to qpac in the finals, how much help would we need for an at large? We talking 65% of in? 5%?
id call it like a 10 percent chance, could be wrong though.
I'm guessing closer to 5, unfortunately. We need to roll through three straight, have some of the teams ahead of us get knocked out in two, and then need the conferences to shake out without upsets so that the top 14 get in.
We're at 16 right now, a smidge ahead of UNO. They're in a scarier conference and likely will play tougher opponents, so if they win 3 straight and lose in the finals, they probably pass us. We need to pass two teams to get into the top 14.
Prov has BU an Northeastern this weekend. 2 losses that would put them close to Cornell.
uMass has 2 with Maine.
Mich has 2 with ND
4 teams in the NCHC are playing with results that can help Cornell.
so in reality 7 teams that around us are playing where it doesn't help both teams.
In a perfect result world we could jump back up to about 13th.
what are the helpful results?
Bu beat Prov tonight.. 1 we wanted
Miami plays WMU
Denver plays CC
Minn D plays St cloud
NDak plays Omaha
ND plays Mich
Minn/Wisc not losing in theirs would be good
All 6 teams ahead of us have a shot at losing 2 games this weekend. We need teams to back up to have a chance at a AT large to still be in play
Maine got the win
ND had a 2 goal lead and lost
Mind Dul comes back from 2 down late to win in OT
Ndak loses to Omaha
Miami had a 2 goal lead vs WMU and lost
could have been 4 good results that help got 2
Denver losing early to CC in a very fast paced game.
17 in PWR
IF Denver sweeps this weekend and CC is just barely ahead of us
Maine sweeps and Umass is barely ahead of us
Minn D wins tomorrow and St cloude is barely ahead of us
NE wins tomorrow and Prov is barely ahead of us
Miami Wins tomorrow and WMU is barely ahead of us
you could have 5-6 teams within 1-2 tenths of a pt.
If Cornell had hung on vs Clarkson (or if Schafer had challenged the hand pass) or beaten Union, we'd have a good shot at an at-large bid. As it stands, we have almost no shot. To have a realistic shot at an at-large bid, we needed tonight to go extremely well. I didn't. Sickness or no sickness, things just...fell apart at the end. At this point, I'm resigned to the likely reality we need to win the ECAC, which unfortunately means I'm resigned to the fact we are a long shot to make the NCAAs.
6 teams in the PWR ahead of Cornell can still tumble. We need to pass 3 of them.
no chance at an at large without a sweep next week and a win in the Semis.
Then the question is how far do we drop with a loss if its Quin and if its not Quin we would expect a win.
same 6 big games tonight that matter.
ND winning next 2 over Mich would mean Mich is done for the year and wont move much and certainly drops to where we can catch them with 3 wins.
ND had their chance last night.
Another salvo in the facility wars.
$320 Million renovation for Maine's Alfond arena and facilities
https://www.uscho.com/2024/03/09/maine-announces-320-million-renovation-plans-for-harold-alfond-sports-arena-shawn-walsh-hockey-center-that-will-benefit-mens-womens-teams/
Maine knocks of Umass
NE ties Prov
so they play each other now and a sweep knocks the loser out
Need Denver to come back vs CC and Ndak to wake up vs Omaha and avoid a sweep
Minn D steps up and takes down SCS
all 4 teams ahead of us are within range
ND lost leads both nights vs Mich which probably puts Mich in now.
Next week
Cornell needs to take care and sweep but we get barely anything for that in the PWR
Umass-prov. 1 game series one will lose
STC vs WMU. root for WMU sweep
CC vs Omaha again need one to sweep and still not clear that does enough. Omaha sweeping Ndak last week not good for Cornell.
Still that would move us to 15th for sure.
Quote from: upprdeckNext week
Cornell needs to take care and sweep but we get barely anything for that in the PWR
Umass-prov. 1 game series one will lose
STC vs WMU. root for WMU sweep
CC vs Omaha again need one to sweep and still not clear that does enough. Omaha sweeping Ndak last week not good for Cornell.
Still that would move us to 15th for sure.
I do not see a path for Cornell to get an at-large bid. I think it might be impossible to get into the top 14 at this point.
Quote from: BearLoverQuote from: upprdeckNext week
Cornell needs to take care and sweep but we get barely anything for that in the PWR
Umass-prov. 1 game series one will lose
STC vs WMU. root for WMU sweep
CC vs Omaha again need one to sweep and still not clear that does enough. Omaha sweeping Ndak last week not good for Cornell.
Still that would move us to 15th for sure.
I do not see a path for Cornell to get an at-large bid. I think it might be impossible to get into the top 14 at this point.
Especially when you consider the competition from below. UNH and Northeastern right now are better than their season record.
UNH is right behind Cornell in RPI. Their path to the HE title is Lowell, Maine, BU, BC. They just shut out Lowell twice, they are 2-1 vs. Maine this year, they've beaten BU (granted, early in the season), and recently held BC to a 1-0 game. They don't get a title without luck, but they are playing well enough right not to put them in a position where they can leverage some luck once getting to the semis.
Likewise, Northeastern has a Merrimack, BU, BC, Maine (with potentially UNH in there somewhere). They have beaten all but UNH this year (and those games were early in the season). Again, they still need luck to get to a title. But the reality is that the #7 team in HE is still a potential contender. The conference is just that deep.
So many things have to go well for Cornell for an at-large bid, that it would just be easier to win the ECAC title and be done with it. So let's do that.
Quote from: pjd8Quote from: BearLoverQuote from: upprdeckNext week
Cornell needs to take care and sweep but we get barely anything for that in the PWR
Umass-prov. 1 game series one will lose
STC vs WMU. root for WMU sweep
CC vs Omaha again need one to sweep and still not clear that does enough. Omaha sweeping Ndak last week not good for Cornell.
Still that would move us to 15th for sure.
I do not see a path for Cornell to get an at-large bid. I think it might be impossible to get into the top 14 at this point.
Especially when you consider the competition from below. UNH and Northeastern right now are better than their season record.
UNH is right behind Cornell in RPI. Their path to the HE title is Lowell, Maine, BU, BC. They just shut out Lowell twice, they are 2-1 vs. Maine this year, they've beaten BU (granted, early in the season), and recently held BC to a 1-0 game. They don't get a title without luck, but they are playing well enough right not to put them in a position where they can leverage some luck once getting to the semis.
Likewise, Northeastern has a Merrimack, BU, BC, Maine (with potentially UNH in there somewhere). They have beaten all but UNH this year (and those games were early in the season). Again, they still need luck to get to a title. But the reality is that the #7 team in HE is still a potential contender. The conference is just that deep.
So many things have to go well for Cornell for an at-large bid, that it would just be easier to win the ECAC title and be done with it. So let's do that.
Even assuming UNH and Northeastern lose, I'm not even sure it's mathematically possible for Cornell to get an at-large bid. They'd need to pass both UMass and Providence, but those teams play each other next round and I don't think it will be possible for the winner to drop below Cornell.
It's definitely possible, just unlikely.
Quote from: BearLoverQuote from: upprdeckNext week
Cornell needs to take care and sweep but we get barely anything for that in the PWR
Umass-prov. 1 game series one will lose
STC vs WMU. root for WMU sweep
CC vs Omaha again need one to sweep and still not clear that does enough. Omaha sweeping Ndak last week not good for Cornell.
Still that would move us to 15th for sure.
I do not see a path for Cornell to get an at-large bid. I think it might be impossible to get into the top 14 at this point.
that may be true. Easy enough to get to 15, but after that?
Quote from: upprdeckQuote from: BearLoverQuote from: upprdeckNext week
Cornell needs to take care and sweep but we get barely anything for that in the PWR
Umass-prov. 1 game series one will lose
STC vs WMU. root for WMU sweep
CC vs Omaha again need one to sweep and still not clear that does enough. Omaha sweeping Ndak last week not good for Cornell.
Still that would move us to 15th for sure.
I do not see a path for Cornell to get an at-large bid. I think it might be impossible to get into the top 14 at this point.
that may be true. Easy enough to get to 15, but after that?
gotta have one of the NCHC teams drop basically.
Quote from: chimpfoodQuote from: upprdeckQuote from: BearLoverQuote from: upprdeckNext week
Cornell needs to take care and sweep but we get barely anything for that in the PWR
Umass-prov. 1 game series one will lose
STC vs WMU. root for WMU sweep
CC vs Omaha again need one to sweep and still not clear that does enough. Omaha sweeping Ndak last week not good for Cornell.
Still that would move us to 15th for sure.
I do not see a path for Cornell to get an at-large bid. I think it might be impossible to get into the top 14 at this point.
that may be true. Easy enough to get to 15, but after that?
gotta have one of the NCHC teams drop basically.
Looks impossible to catch any of them. Ergo, impossible to get into the top 14.
One must wonder how things would've shaken out if at least a few ECAC teams other than Cornell and Q had even decent OOC records
It's not impossible, or else Cornell wouldn't show up here with >0% odds
https://www.collegehockeynews.com/ratings/probabilityMatrix.php
whatever you think of the methodology for picking winners for each game - it proves it's possible to happen.
Quote from: adamwIt's not impossible, or else Cornell wouldn't show up here with >0% odds
https://www.collegehockeynews.com/ratings/probabilityMatrix.php
whatever you think of the methodology for picking winners for each game - it proves it's possible to happen.
Yup—thanks. It probably involves UMD and Cornell both losing in their conference finals, at a minimum. I'm not sure how else Cornell gains enough RPI to overtake that many teams.
The question is how high does 3 wins take us with the finals loss to Quin?
rough guessing with the PWR tool
Omaha-cc play if one sweeps the loser ends up around .5495
WMU sweeps. SC cloud goes into the .5370 range
Prov wins Umass falls to .5466
if we sweep we only move up to .5475.
Maybe 3 more win gets up a touch higher. but that last loss may knock us back down to far?
Interesting the chn model gives us a 2% chance of an at-large. I wonder what it is if we sweep Harvard, win the semi and lose the final to qpac. That is, how much of it is in our hands vs totally out of our control.
Win the next 2 and then we have our answer on what needs to happen.
If you want to get into the NCAAs and do well you have to beat teams all better than the next few we have to play anyway.
Quote from: upprdeckObamna-cc play if one sweeps the loser ends up around .5495
FIFY
As much as this weekend scares me, and it really shouldn't....we need to survive and advance. What I like is we are young and desperate, playing for survival. The Q, when they get to LP, are in. Playing for a SEED and not a SPOT in the tourney are very different things and I like our chances! Don't play down to inferior teams and take care of business. Hopefully the health issues are behind us.
Our chance of at-large is up to 4% after last night's games according to the probability matrix
Quote from: CU2007Our chance of at-large is up to 4% after last night's games according to the probability matrix
Hope spring eternal!
Minn D winning one probably helps
mass - prov not sure if the Mass win helps us or Prov win helps us.
Omaha needs to lose to maybe catch them
St cloud losing helps more than WMU losing, I think
Leagues having the 1 game playoffs hurts us with no teams losing twice.
I would think we want to play Colgate next rd for PWR?
I would have to think that Quin/BU/Mass getting as far as they can is much needed to try and get some more quality bonus.
Still hard to see how to get to 14th and lose the final game.
UMass up 2-0 on PC early in HEA.
Ohio State eliminated, so one less possibility of an autobid going to a lower ranked team.
Fewer...
Quote from: TrotskyFewer...
::flipc::
UNO 2, CC 1 after 2.
And Michigan leading the Goofers 2-0 after 2.
Quote from: ugarteUNO 2, CC 1 after 2.
Final: UNO 3 CC 1
Quote from: TrotskyQuote from: ugarteUNO 2, CC 1 after 2.
Final: UNO 3 CC 1
I think, but I'm not sure, that that does it for our at large chances.
Could be wrong.
Quote from: DafatoneQuote from: TrotskyQuote from: ugarteUNO 2, CC 1 after 2.
Final: UNO 3 CC 1
I think, but I'm not sure, that that does it for our at large chances.
Could be wrong.
On Twitter Adam said as much
Quote from: scoop85Quote from: DafatoneQuote from: TrotskyQuote from: ugarteUNO 2, CC 1 after 2.
Final: UNO 3 CC 1
I think, but I'm not sure, that that does it for our at large chances.
Could be wrong.
On Twitter Adam said as much
Was just coming here to say that I've just been running more numbers - and yeah, can't see any way for Cornell now. Would've been very possible if Omaha lost. That was the ballgame.
Quote from: adamwQuote from: scoop85Quote from: DafatoneQuote from: TrotskyQuote from: ugarteUNO 2, CC 1 after 2.
Final: UNO 3 CC 1
I think, but I'm not sure, that that does it for our at large chances.
Could be wrong.
On Twitter Adam said as much
Was just coming here to say that I've just been running more numbers - and yeah, can't see any way for Cornell now. Would've been very possible if Omaha lost. That was the ballgame.
Just win, baby.
If you don't win it
You shoont be in it
(https://the1995blog.files.wordpress.com/2020/09/cochran-in-court.jpg)
Quote from: BearLoverThere are some YouTube videos with yours of college hockey facilities. For example, UMass, which provides its players 24-hour access to a rink and gym exclusive to the hockey team:
https://youtu.be/RpyhCEHQwNs?si=MsvSS5QcM5AdO1dd
Contrast with the Cornell men's team, which shares its ice with the women's team, figure skating team, club team, intramurals, and recreational skaters, and which has a couple exclusive bikes and treadmills.
I believe we know the order of priority which is men's then women's hockey then everybody else.
At least the PWR prob matrix gives us a 30% chance to get in..
Beat the Dart goalie and see what happens vs Q.
Quote from: adamwQuote from: scoop85Quote from: DafatoneQuote from: TrotskyQuote from: ugarteUNO 2, CC 1 after 2.
Final: UNO 3 CC 1
I think, but I'm not sure, that that does it for our at large chances.
Could be wrong.
On Twitter Adam said as much
Was just coming here to say that I've just been running more numbers - and yeah, can't see any way for Cornell now. Would've been very possible if Omaha lost. That was the ballgame.
So it's impossible for us to best Western Michigan?
Quote from: martyQuote from: adamwQuote from: scoop85Quote from: DafatoneQuote from: TrotskyQuote from: ugarteUNO 2, CC 1 after 2.
Final: UNO 3 CC 1
I think, but I'm not sure, that that does it for our at large chances.
Could be wrong.
On Twitter Adam said as much
Was just coming here to say that I've just been running more numbers - and yeah, can't see any way for Cornell now. Would've been very possible if Omaha lost. That was the ballgame.
So it's impossible for us to best Western Michigan?
Not without winning both in Placid. Can play with it on CHN YATC tool: https://www.collegehockeynews.com/ratings/yatc.php
Win out get the 11 seed is the goal
Fogarty out at Princeton (https://goprincetontigers.com/news/2024/3/18/mens-ice-hockey-princeton-announces-change-in-leadership-for-mens-ice-hockey)
Denver wins, so still a shot at a #3 seed.
I wonder what combo does it? I played with variations and couldnt find it
Denver has to win. Michigan has to lose.
YUP. MSU/DENVER
After that the RIT/AIC and the BU/BC gane didnt seem to matter
https://www.prohockeyrumors.com/2024/03/stars-to-sign-ben-kraws-to-entry-level-deal.html
For those worried about how "small time" the ECACs in LP felt, here's what the St. Louis NCAA regional (Michigan, Michigan State, North Dakota and Western Michigan) site looks like:
(https://i.redd.it/khiqpd1t6jqc1.jpeg)
"The center features four rinks: a "feature" rink with 2,500 tip-up seats and a four-sided HD video scoreboard..."
Sounded like they didn't have another option for a "western" site.
I find it crazy that the committee or whoever is responsible couldn't find another site in the midwestern US. There has to be a ton of better arenas willing to do this event at a tolerable cost.
Quote from: IcebergI find it crazy that the committee or whoever is responsible couldn't find another site in the midwestern US. There has to be a ton of better arenas willing to do this event at a tolerable cost.
Now that they're doing the regionals on Thursday-Saturday and Friday-Sunday, couldn't one site bid to host both regionals? The Eastern sites are close enough that dedicated fans could commute between Soringfield and Providence to see all six games, but not in the West, but if they were all in one place, it might improve the attendance of both sets of games.
Some AHL sites in the Midwest: Chicago, Cleveland, Grand Rapids, Des Moines, Milwaukee, Rockford.
ECHL rinks in the area are in Kalamazoo, Toledo, Cincinnati, Iowa City, Indianapolis, Fort Wayne, and Kansas City.
FWIW al lot of the ECHL rinks are pretty small (5000 seats).
Quote from: IcebergI find it crazy that the committee or whoever is responsible couldn't find another site in the midwestern US. There has to be a ton of better arenas willing to do this event at a tolerable cost.
I think it has to do with who the host(s) is (are). In this case, the Midwest Regional (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2024_NCAA_Division_I_men%27s_ice_hockey_tournament) is hosted by Lindenwood University (https://www.lindenwood.edu/) and the St. Louis Sports Commission (https://stlsports.org/).
What's even more surprising is that the St. Louis Sports Commission (https://stlsports.org/) has partnered with the University of Vermont to host the 2025 Frozen Four in St. Louis. In large part, this is because UVM has "connections to the St. Louis Blues President, and UVM alum, Chris Zimmerman (https://www.mynbc5.com/article/uvm-to-host-2025-frozen-four-in-st-louis-mo/34403920)."
I bet there are lots of Vermont citizens who would be shocked to learn their state university chose Missouri as the place to host a tournament.::scream::
Quote from: SwampyQuote from: IcebergI find it crazy that the committee or whoever is responsible couldn't find another site in the midwestern US. There has to be a ton of better arenas willing to do this event at a tolerable cost.
I think it has to do with who the host(s) is (are). In this case, the Midwest Regional (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2024_NCAA_Division_I_men%27s_ice_hockey_tournament) is hosted by Lindenwood University (https://www.lindenwood.edu/) and the St. Louis Sports Commission (https://stlsports.org/).
What's even more surprising is that the St. Louis Sports Commission (https://stlsports.org/) has partnered with the University of Vermont to host the 2025 Frozen Four in St. Louis. In large part, this is because UVM has "connections to the St. Louis Blues President, and UVM alum, Chris Zimmerman (https://www.mynbc5.com/article/uvm-to-host-2025-frozen-four-in-st-louis-mo/34403920)."
I bet there are lots of Vermont citizens who would be shocked to learn their state university chose Missouri as the place to host a tournament.::scream::
vermont home game in st. louis has real extreme weather event vibes
Quote from: jtwcornell91Quote from: IcebergI find it crazy that the committee or whoever is responsible couldn't find another site in the midwestern US. There has to be a ton of better arenas willing to do this event at a tolerable cost.
Now that they're doing the regionals on Thursday-Saturday and Friday-Sunday, couldn't one site bid to host both regionals? The Eastern sites are close enough that dedicated fans could commute between Soringfield and Providence to see all six games, but not in the West, but if they were all in one place, it might improve the attendance of both sets of games.
I wish. And think the the attendance griping would be resolved in part by having one east and one west regional like the 12 team days.
Quote from: ugarteQuote from: SwampyQuote from: IcebergI find it crazy that the committee or whoever is responsible couldn't find another site in the midwestern US. There has to be a ton of better arenas willing to do this event at a tolerable cost.
I think it has to do with who the host(s) is (are). In this case, the Midwest Regional (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2024_NCAA_Division_I_men%27s_ice_hockey_tournament) is hosted by Lindenwood University (https://www.lindenwood.edu/) and the St. Louis Sports Commission (https://stlsports.org/).
What's even more surprising is that the St. Louis Sports Commission (https://stlsports.org/) has partnered with the University of Vermont to host the 2025 Frozen Four in St. Louis. In large part, this is because UVM has "connections to the St. Louis Blues President, and UVM alum, Chris Zimmerman (https://www.mynbc5.com/article/uvm-to-host-2025-frozen-four-in-st-louis-mo/34403920)."
I bet there are lots of Vermont citizens who would be shocked to learn their state university chose Missouri as the place to host a tournament.::scream::
vermont home game in st. louis has real extreme weather event vibes
The 1999 Frozen Four in Anaheim was hosted by Alaska-Anchorage.
There's some joke to be made about UVM getting tricked into thinking it was hosting
Martin St. Louis.
Quote from: sah67For those worried about how "small time" the ECACs in LP felt, here's what the St. Louis NCAA regional (Michigan, Michigan State, North Dakota and Western Michigan) site looks like:
(https://i.redd.it/khiqpd1t6jqc1.jpeg)
"The center features four rinks: a "feature" rink with 2,500 tip-up seats and a four-sided HD video scoreboard..."
And of course, placing the Western team that travels the best in this venue was a master-stroke. North Dakota fans must be so pissed.
Wish I had a ticket to sell.
Which is funnier, the NCAA holding a regional in an NHL practice facility, or an NHL team's home arena being a college facility?
Quote from: jtwcornell91Now that they're doing the regionals on Thursday-Saturday and Friday-Sunday, couldn't one site bid to host both regionals?
This is actually brilliant.
Quote from: jtwcornell91Quote from: IcebergI find it crazy that the committee or whoever is responsible couldn't find another site in the midwestern US. There has to be a ton of better arenas willing to do this event at a tolerable cost.
Now that they're doing the regionals on Thursday-Saturday and Friday-Sunday, couldn't one site bid to host both regionals? The Eastern sites are close enough that dedicated fans could commute between Soringfield and Providence to see all six games, but not in the West, but if they were all in one place, it might improve the attendance of both sets of games.
I think two sites, one East and one West with 8 teams each would be fun and draw well.
Quote from: martyQuote from: jtwcornell91Quote from: IcebergI find it crazy that the committee or whoever is responsible couldn't find another site in the midwestern US. There has to be a ton of better arenas willing to do this event at a tolerable cost.
Now that they're doing the regionals on Thursday-Saturday and Friday-Sunday, couldn't one site bid to host both regionals? The Eastern sites are close enough that dedicated fans could commute between Soringfield and Providence to see all six games, but not in the West, but if they were all in one place, it might improve the attendance of both sets of games.
I think two sites, one East and one West with 8 teams each would be fun and draw well.
Possibly a problem getting four days Thursday through Sunday at right-sized arenas?
Quote from: Al DeFlorioPossibly a problem getting four days Thursday through Sunday at right-sized arenas?
Possibly, but the NC$$ could book years in advance.
Just go back to straight seeds at campus sites. Please.
32 Michigan Tech at
1 BC
21 RIT at
2 BU
14 UMass at
3 Denver
13 Western Michigan at
4 Michigan State
12 Cornell at
5 Maine
11 Omaha at
6 North Dakota
10 Michigan at
7 Minnesota
9 Quinnipiac at
8 Wisconsin
Even funnier, give the top 6 seeds to the 6 conference champions (http://www.tbrw.info/?/ncaa_History/conf_Tour_Icon.html) to piss everyone off.
Quote from: TrotskyQuote from: Al DeFlorioPossibly a problem getting four days Thursday through Sunday at right-sized arenas?
Possibly, but the NC$$ could book years in advance.
Just go back to straight seeds at campus sites. Please.
32 Michigan Tech at 1 BC
21 RIT at 2 BU
14 UMass at 3 Denver
13 Western Michigan at 4 Michigan State
12 Cornell at 5 Maine
11 Omaha at 6 North Dakota
10 Michigan at 7 Minnesota
9 Quinnipiac at 8 Wisconsin
Even funnier, give the top 6 seeds to the 6 conference champions (http://www.tbrw.info/?/ncaa_History/conf_Tour_Icon.html) to piss everyone off.
This is the way.
You want half of the D1 teams to make the tournament? **]
25% is already high. Check some other sports. Basketball is 19%.
Quote from: CU77You want half of the D1 teams to make the tournament? **]
25% is already high. Check some other sports. Basketball is 19%.
lol there are 16 teams. the 16 seed happens to be 32 in pairwise.
Quote from: SwampyQuote from: IcebergI find it crazy that the committee or whoever is responsible couldn't find another site in the midwestern US. There has to be a ton of better arenas willing to do this event at a tolerable cost.
I think it has to do with who the host(s) is (are). In this case, the Midwest Regional (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2024_NCAA_Division_I_men%27s_ice_hockey_tournament) is hosted by Lindenwood University (https://www.lindenwood.edu/) and the St. Louis Sports Commission (https://stlsports.org/).
What's even more surprising is that the St. Louis Sports Commission (https://stlsports.org/) has partnered with the University of Vermont to host the 2025 Frozen Four in St. Louis. In large part, this is because UVM has "connections to the St. Louis Blues President, and UVM alum, Chris Zimmerman (https://www.mynbc5.com/article/uvm-to-host-2025-frozen-four-in-st-louis-mo/34403920)."
I bet there are lots of Vermont citizens who would be shocked to learn their state university chose Missouri as the place to host a tournament.::scream::
I believe the st Louis coalition approached uvm, and not the other way around iirc. And I've not heard any locals talking about this up here. I don't think anyone cares.
(Current Vermont citizen living 25 minutes from campus)
Quote from: TrotskyQuote from: jtwcornell91Now that they're doing the regionals on Thursday-Saturday and Friday-Sunday, couldn't one site bid to host both regionals?
This is actually brilliant.
Only downsides I can imagine would be finding enough practice facilities for 8 teams plus enough hotel blocks
Quote from: abmarksQuote from: TrotskyQuote from: jtwcornell91Now that they're doing the regionals on Thursday-Saturday and Friday-Sunday, couldn't one site bid to host both regionals?
This is actually brilliant.
Only downsides I can imagine would be finding enough practice facilities for 8 teams plus enough hotel blocks
Good point. They used to do it with six teams (over two days) back in the 90s.
Quote from: jtwcornell91Quote from: abmarksQuote from: TrotskyQuote from: jtwcornell91Now that they're doing the regionals on Thursday-Saturday and Friday-Sunday, couldn't one site bid to host both regionals?
This is actually brilliant.
Only downsides I can imagine would be finding enough practice facilities for 8 teams plus enough hotel blocks
Good point. They used to do it with six teams (over two days) back in the 90s.
Although they seemed to limit the locations to New England and the upper midwest (Mich, Minn, and ND).
Quote from: Jeff Hopkins '82Quote from: jtwcornell91Quote from: abmarksQuote from: TrotskyQuote from: jtwcornell91Now that they're doing the regionals on Thursday-Saturday and Friday-Sunday, couldn't one site bid to host both regionals?
This is actually brilliant.
Only downsides I can imagine would be finding enough practice facilities for 8 teams plus enough hotel blocks
Good point. They used to do it with six teams (over two days) back in the 90s.
Although they seemed to limit the locations to New England and the upper midwest (Mich, Minn, and ND).
Albany could handle it with Union and RPI being local. Worcester would also work, as you've got Holy Cross there and a lot of schools within 45 minutes (Providence, Brown, BC). Even UNH is only a two hour drive away. Both locations are relatively easy to get to for most eastern programs. And for western teams, flying to to Boston and getting to Worcester is probably about as easy a trip as you'll get without being in a major city.
It would restrict regionals to a few sites, but as a fan, there are advantages to cycling through a few regular places.
How many teams are even remotely close to St. Louis?
Quote from: DafatoneHow many teams are even remotely close to St. Louis?
Lindenwood, which is precisely why the regional is there.
The smaller cities and smaller arenas may be hungrier for the NCAA's business. Springfield MA is an 8,000-seat arena and Midwest regional site Centene Community Center in Maryland Heights, Missouri [first time I heard the site name I mentally placed in Maryland], I believe the largest of their four rinks (https://arcoconstruction.com/project/st-louis-community-ice-center/) is 3,500 (one is outdoors, covered). Syracuse, Binghamton and Glens Falls and have 4,000+ and could bid for NCAA hockey regionals. Or Lake Placid.
Quote from: billhowardThe smaller cities and smaller arenas may be hungrier for the NCAA's business. Springfield MA is an 8,000-seat arena and Midwest regional site Centene Community Center in Maryland Heights, Missouri [first time I heard the site name I mentally placed in Maryland], I believe the largest of their four rinks (https://arcoconstruction.com/project/st-louis-community-ice-center/) is 3,500. Syracuse, Binghamton and Glens Falls and have 4,000+ and could bid for NCAA hockey regionals. Or Lake Placid.
Don't forget Elmira... I believe their rink is approx 4K.
On the CHN podcast today Adam said that he supports teams being able to host regionals in their own rinks but should only play there if they are a one or two seed. To me, this makes no sense to not just do home games for the first two rounds. Firstly, it shows that he has no issue with schools hosting NCAA games in their home rink and this system doesn't eliminate home advantage, it just only gives it to schools that are willing to pay. Also, it contradicts a point that he previously centered his argument around, that the pairwise is not good enough to decide who gets home games. And yet, in his new ideal system, only one and two seeds would be able to play in their home regional, so home games would be decided by the pairwise. It seems like all logic eventually leads to the fact that home games in the tournament are the way to go and with the points that he is making and the opinions he is sharing I'm genuinely confused why he still opposes this. I don't think he has any malicious intent at all I am just lost on how he could be so well informed on college hockey and be making the same arguments that support the home games, yet stand against them.
Quote from: pjd8Quote from: Jeff Hopkins '82Quote from: jtwcornell91Quote from: abmarksQuote from: TrotskyQuote from: jtwcornell91Now that they're doing the regionals on Thursday-Saturday and Friday-Sunday, couldn't one site bid to host both regionals?
This is actually brilliant.
Only downsides I can imagine would be finding enough practice facilities for 8 teams plus enough hotel blocks
Good point. They used to do it with six teams (over two days) back in the 90s.
Although they seemed to limit the locations to New England and the upper midwest (Mich, Minn, and ND).
Albany could handle it with Union and RPI being local. Worcester would also work, as you've got Holy Cross there and a lot of schools within 45 minutes (Providence, Brown, BC). Even UNH is only a two hour drive away. Both locations are relatively easy to get to for most eastern programs. And for western teams, flying to to Boston and getting to Worcester is probably about as easy a trip as you'll get without being in a major city.
It would restrict regionals to a few sites, but as a fan, there are advantages to cycling through a few regular places.
My point was that although they could pull it off in New England or the upper midwest, it would be much more difficult to expand the footprint of the tournament beyond the same few sites.
Quote from: chimpfoodOn the CHN podcast today Adam said that he supports teams being able to host regionals in their own rinks but should only play there if they are a one or two seed. To me, this makes no sense to not just do home games for the first two rounds. Firstly, it shows that he has no issue with schools hosting NCAA games in their home rink and this system doesn't eliminate home advantage, it just only gives it to schools that are willing to pay. Also, it contradicts a point that he previously centered his argument around, that the pairwise is not good enough to decide who gets home games. And yet, in his new ideal system, only one and two seeds would be able to play in their home regional, so home games would be decided by the pairwise. It seems like all logic eventually leads to the fact that home games in the tournament are the way to go and with the points that he is making and the opinions he is sharing I'm genuinely confused why he still opposes this. I don't think he has any malicious intent at all I am just lost on how he could be so well informed on college hockey and be making the same arguments that support the home games, yet stand against them.
The way I read it he was against giving teams like UMass a home advantage because they are 4 seeds. He was in favor, I think, of giving home ice advantage to hosts only if they were 1 or 2 seeds for any regional. That is, if they were in the top 8 of the total 16 field. But this argument was for the current 4 neutral sites with 16 teams in the field.
If he has other more current ideas not expressed on eLynah, I've not read those.
Quote from: chimpfoodOn the CHN podcast today Adam said that he supports teams being able to host regionals in their own rinks but should only play there if they are a one or two seed. To me, this makes no sense to not just do home games for the first two rounds. Firstly, it shows that he has no issue with schools hosting NCAA games in their home rink and this system doesn't eliminate home advantage, it just only gives it to schools that are willing to pay. Also, it contradicts a point that he previously centered his argument around, that the pairwise is not good enough to decide who gets home games. And yet, in his new ideal system, only one and two seeds would be able to play in their home regional, so home games would be decided by the pairwise. It seems like all logic eventually leads to the fact that home games in the tournament are the way to go and with the points that he is making and the opinions he is sharing I'm genuinely confused why he still opposes this. I don't think he has any malicious intent at all I am just lost on how he could be so well informed on college hockey and be making the same arguments that support the home games, yet stand against them.
Stage 1: That's crazy.
Stage 2: That's unfair.
Stage 3: That will never work.
Stage 4: It was my idea all the time.
Adam is at about Stage 3.2
if regionals were best of 3 I bet more places would try to host it.
that would add an extra week as well to the whole thing
best of 3
best of 3
final 4
Quote from: upprdeckif regionals were best of 3 I bet more places would try to host it.
that would add an extra week as well to the whole thing
best of 3
best of 3
final 4
It would also increase the conflicts with their "normal" activities.
what normal activities, school?
best of 3. thur-sat. fri-sun miss no more time than bball schools will
Quote from: upprdeckwhat normal activities, school?
best of 3. thur-sat. fri-sun miss no more time than bball schools will
I meant the normal activities held in the arenas / training facilities.
for all this talk of smaller rinks wanting regionals more, if memory serves, there's been decent to excellent ticket historically for regionals in Manchester, Providence and Worcester, all of which are well north of the 5k seat mark. Granted attendance would vary depending upon how many of the local schools are playing there, but those have to be better venue choices than 3k-5k seat rinks, and better choices than rinks the size of Albany or larger.
Quote from: chimpfoodOn the CHN podcast today Adam said that he supports teams being able to host regionals in their own rinks but should only play there if they are a one or two seed. To me, this makes no sense to not just do home games for the first two rounds. Firstly, it shows that he has no issue with schools hosting NCAA games in their home rink and this system doesn't eliminate home advantage, it just only gives it to schools that are willing to pay. Also, it contradicts a point that he previously centered his argument around, that the pairwise is not good enough to decide who gets home games. And yet, in his new ideal system, only one and two seeds would be able to play in their home regional, so home games would be decided by the pairwise. It seems like all logic eventually leads to the fact that home games in the tournament are the way to go and with the points that he is making and the opinions he is sharing I'm genuinely confused why he still opposes this. I don't think he has any malicious intent at all I am just lost on how he could be so well informed on college hockey and be making the same arguments that support the home games, yet stand against them.
I'm sure there's some more context given the situation this year, but the brother Wodon will explain his reasoning in due time here as he typically does
Quote from: IcebergQuote from: chimpfoodOn the CHN podcast today Adam said that he supports teams being able to host regionals in their own rinks but should only play there if they are a one or two seed. To me, this makes no sense to not just do home games for the first two rounds. Firstly, it shows that he has no issue with schools hosting NCAA games in their home rink and this system doesn't eliminate home advantage, it just only gives it to schools that are willing to pay. Also, it contradicts a point that he previously centered his argument around, that the pairwise is not good enough to decide who gets home games. And yet, in his new ideal system, only one and two seeds would be able to play in their home regional, so home games would be decided by the pairwise. It seems like all logic eventually leads to the fact that home games in the tournament are the way to go and with the points that he is making and the opinions he is sharing I'm genuinely confused why he still opposes this. I don't think he has any malicious intent at all I am just lost on how he could be so well informed on college hockey and be making the same arguments that support the home games, yet stand against them.
I'm sure there's some more context given the situation this year, but the brother Wodon will explain his reasoning in due time here as he typically does
The couple of times I've listened to the CHN podcast recently, I've been very impressed with how smart and eloquent the coaches who were guests on the podcast have sounded: first Carle of Denver and now Mayotte of CC.
Quote from: abmarksfor all this talk of smaller rinks wanting regionals more, if memory serves, there's been decent to excellent ticket historically for regionals in Manchester, Providence and Worcester, all of which are well north of the 5k seat mark. Granted attendance would vary depending upon how many of the local schools are playing there, but those have to be better venue choices than 3k-5k seat rinks, and better choices than rinks the size of Albany or larger.
If attendance is low Albany doesn't use the upper deck. The facility is fine for regional play.
Women's NCAA bball is there this weekend.
Quote from: martyQuote from: abmarksfor all this talk of smaller rinks wanting regionals more, if memory serves, there's been decent to excellent ticket historically for regionals in Manchester, Providence and Worcester, all of which are well north of the 5k seat mark. Granted attendance would vary depending upon how many of the local schools are playing there, but those have to be better venue choices than 3k-5k seat rinks, and better choices than rinks the size of Albany or larger.
If attendance is low Albany doesn't use the upper deck. The facility is fine for regional play.
Women's NCAA bball is there this weekend.
Works for me, Marty.
Quote from: chimpfoodOn the CHN podcast today Adam said that he supports teams being able to host regionals in their own rinks but should only play there if they are a one or two seed. To me, this makes no sense to not just do home games for the first two rounds. Firstly, it shows that he has no issue with schools hosting NCAA games in their home rink and this system doesn't eliminate home advantage, it just only gives it to schools that are willing to pay. Also, it contradicts a point that he previously centered his argument around, that the pairwise is not good enough to decide who gets home games. And yet, in his new ideal system, only one and two seeds would be able to play in their home regional, so home games would be decided by the pairwise. It seems like all logic eventually leads to the fact that home games in the tournament are the way to go and with the points that he is making and the opinions he is sharing I'm genuinely confused why he still opposes this. I don't think he has any malicious intent at all I am just lost on how he could be so well informed on college hockey and be making the same arguments that support the home games, yet stand against them.
LOL - I've literally explained how this is not contradictory a dozen times already. I'm not in the mood to explain it again.
Quote from: adamwQuote from: chimpfoodOn the CHN podcast today Adam said that he supports teams being able to host regionals in their own rinks but should only play there if they are a one or two seed. To me, this makes no sense to not just do home games for the first two rounds. Firstly, it shows that he has no issue with schools hosting NCAA games in their home rink and this system doesn't eliminate home advantage, it just only gives it to schools that are willing to pay. Also, it contradicts a point that he previously centered his argument around, that the pairwise is not good enough to decide who gets home games. And yet, in his new ideal system, only one and two seeds would be able to play in their home regional, so home games would be decided by the pairwise. It seems like all logic eventually leads to the fact that home games in the tournament are the way to go and with the points that he is making and the opinions he is sharing I'm genuinely confused why he still opposes this. I don't think he has any malicious intent at all I am just lost on how he could be so well informed on college hockey and be making the same arguments that support the home games, yet stand against them.
LOL - I've literally explained how this is not contradictory a dozen times already. I'm not in the mood to explain it again.
the podcast was the first time that I personally have heard you support teams playing at their home rinks but only as 1 or 2 seeds. If you have a link to an article or something explaining how this is better than just playing at the higher seeds all the time and doesn't contradict what you said about the pairwise deciding home games I would love to read it, my mind really is open, just right now I don't see how the current regional system (or the one with the reforms you mentioned) is better than just playing at the higher seed.
Quote from: chimpfoodQuote from: adamwQuote from: chimpfoodOn the CHN podcast today Adam said that he supports teams being able to host regionals in their own rinks but should only play there if they are a one or two seed. To me, this makes no sense to not just do home games for the first two rounds. Firstly, it shows that he has no issue with schools hosting NCAA games in their home rink and this system doesn't eliminate home advantage, it just only gives it to schools that are willing to pay. Also, it contradicts a point that he previously centered his argument around, that the pairwise is not good enough to decide who gets home games. And yet, in his new ideal system, only one and two seeds would be able to play in their home regional, so home games would be decided by the pairwise. It seems like all logic eventually leads to the fact that home games in the tournament are the way to go and with the points that he is making and the opinions he is sharing I'm genuinely confused why he still opposes this. I don't think he has any malicious intent at all I am just lost on how he could be so well informed on college hockey and be making the same arguments that support the home games, yet stand against them.
LOL - I've literally explained how this is not contradictory a dozen times already. I'm not in the mood to explain it again.
the podcast was the first time that I personally have heard you support teams playing at their home rinks but only as 1 or 2 seeds. If you have a link to an article or something explaining how this is better than just playing at the higher seeds all the time and doesn't contradict what you said about the pairwise deciding home games I would love to read it, my mind really is open, just right now I don't see how the current regional system (or the one with the reforms you mentioned) is better than just playing at the higher seed.
Feel free to have your opinion - but what I am saying is not contradictory. There are numerous differences between top 8 teams getting home games, and what I'm proposing.
Quote from: adamwQuote from: chimpfoodQuote from: adamwQuote from: chimpfoodOn the CHN podcast today Adam said that he supports teams being able to host regionals in their own rinks but should only play there if they are a one or two seed. To me, this makes no sense to not just do home games for the first two rounds. Firstly, it shows that he has no issue with schools hosting NCAA games in their home rink and this system doesn't eliminate home advantage, it just only gives it to schools that are willing to pay. Also, it contradicts a point that he previously centered his argument around, that the pairwise is not good enough to decide who gets home games. And yet, in his new ideal system, only one and two seeds would be able to play in their home regional, so home games would be decided by the pairwise. It seems like all logic eventually leads to the fact that home games in the tournament are the way to go and with the points that he is making and the opinions he is sharing I'm genuinely confused why he still opposes this. I don't think he has any malicious intent at all I am just lost on how he could be so well informed on college hockey and be making the same arguments that support the home games, yet stand against them.
LOL - I've literally explained how this is not contradictory a dozen times already. I'm not in the mood to explain it again.
the podcast was the first time that I personally have heard you support teams playing at their home rinks but only as 1 or 2 seeds. If you have a link to an article or something explaining how this is better than just playing at the higher seeds all the time and doesn't contradict what you said about the pairwise deciding home games I would love to read it, my mind really is open, just right now I don't see how the current regional system (or the one with the reforms you mentioned) is better than just playing at the higher seed.
Feel free to have your opinion - but what I am saying is not contradictory. There are numerous differences between top 8 teams getting home games, and what I'm proposing.
Explain please. The only difference that I see is that you want teams to have to pay to have a chance at a home game and with your way we still get worse attendance most of the time.
Quote from: chimpfoodQuote from: adamwQuote from: chimpfoodQuote from: adamwQuote from: chimpfoodOn the CHN podcast today Adam said that he supports teams being able to host regionals in their own rinks but should only play there if they are a one or two seed. To me, this makes no sense to not just do home games for the first two rounds. Firstly, it shows that he has no issue with schools hosting NCAA games in their home rink and this system doesn't eliminate home advantage, it just only gives it to schools that are willing to pay. Also, it contradicts a point that he previously centered his argument around, that the pairwise is not good enough to decide who gets home games. And yet, in his new ideal system, only one and two seeds would be able to play in their home regional, so home games would be decided by the pairwise. It seems like all logic eventually leads to the fact that home games in the tournament are the way to go and with the points that he is making and the opinions he is sharing I'm genuinely confused why he still opposes this. I don't think he has any malicious intent at all I am just lost on how he could be so well informed on college hockey and be making the same arguments that support the home games, yet stand against them.
LOL - I've literally explained how this is not contradictory a dozen times already. I'm not in the mood to explain it again.
the podcast was the first time that I personally have heard you support teams playing at their home rinks but only as 1 or 2 seeds. If you have a link to an article or something explaining how this is better than just playing at the higher seeds all the time and doesn't contradict what you said about the pairwise deciding home games I would love to read it, my mind really is open, just right now I don't see how the current regional system (or the one with the reforms you mentioned) is better than just playing at the higher seed.
Feel free to have your opinion - but what I am saying is not contradictory. There are numerous differences between top 8 teams getting home games, and what I'm proposing.
Explain please. The only difference that I see is that you want teams to have to pay to have a chance at a home game and with your way we still get worse attendance most of the time.
Well, for one thing, 4-team regionals are different from series at campus sites because you get the mix of fans coming together in a tournament atmosphere.
Quote from: chimpfoodOn the CHN podcast today Adam said that he supports teams being able to host regionals in their own rinks but should only play there if they are a one or two seed.
I don't think any school would bid to host under these conditions.
I like the lacrosse system: round 1 at higher seed, round 2 at 2 regional sites (2 games per site, same day).
Quote from: CU77Quote from: chimpfoodOn the CHN podcast today Adam said that he supports teams being able to host regionals in their own rinks but should only play there if they are a one or two seed.
I don't think any school would bid to host under these conditions.
I like the lacrosse system: round 1 at higher seed, round 2 at 2 regional sites (2 games per site, same day).
That doesn't solve the host home field advantage issue though. It just changes it to a QF problem. A team could be road round one and then be the "road" team at home the next.
The issue is what is the best way to balance competing issues: attendance/atmosphere and fairness being primary.
Maybe the conferences should have to host on a rotating basis. That theoretically shares the cost and responsibilities across member schools. Guarantee the host conference that the team that wins their autobid will be there. It's important to find a way to get away from the same handful of schools hosting because they are the only ones willing or in proximity to willing arena partners.
Quote from: CU77Quote from: chimpfoodOn the CHN podcast today Adam said that he supports teams being able to host regionals in their own rinks but should only play there if they are a one or two seed.
I don't think any school would bid to host under these conditions.
If they put their mind to it, I'm sure they could come up with conditions under which schools would bid. But having conferences host in the better solution.
Quote from: Chris '03Quote from: CU77Quote from: chimpfoodOn the CHN podcast today Adam said that he supports teams being able to host regionals in their own rinks but should only play there if they are a one or two seed.
I don't think any school would bid to host under these conditions.
I like the lacrosse system: round 1 at higher seed, round 2 at 2 regional sites (2 games per site, same day).
That doesn't solve the host home field advantage issue though. It just changes it to a QF problem. A team could be road round one and then be the "road" team at home the next.
If you win the first game, you have beaten a 1 or 2 seed (in hockey terminology) on the road, and have taken their place. If you buy that, then Adam's criterion is satisfied.
Among the names in the transfer portal is UCONN's Matthew Wood, a 1st round draftee in the 2022 NHL draft. Rumored to be looking at Minnesota/Wisconsin/NoDak. If he leaves a big loss for a Huskies program trying to gain relevance.
2-0 Q just like that.
After weathering BC's pressure at the end of the 1st period, QU scores twice in 35 seconds to go up 2-0 just 2 minutes into the 2nd period. Please don't tell me they're going to win it again?
Quote from: scoop85After weathering BC's pressure at the end of the 1st period, QU scores twice in 35 seconds to go up 2-0 just 2 minutes into the 2nd period. Please don't tell me they're going to win it again?
BC scores right away after a phantom penalty call on QU to make it 2-1. Boy did they ever need that.
I would be so pissed if I was a Q fan.
3-3 Q-BC after 2
Quote from: Al DeFlorio3-3 Q-BC after 2
And Q scores with 2 seconds left on their PP to go back up 4-3.
For all of BC's offensive ability, their defense is pillow soft.
This is a great game. Will the Q tournament OT magic continue?
Quote from: chimpfoodThis is a great game. Will the Q tournament OT magic continue?
Hope not!
Quote from: Jeff Hopkins '82Quote from: chimpfoodThis is a great game. Will the Q tournament OT magic continue?
Hope not!
Screw BU, QU, too.
Despite BC's superstars, I'd give the edge to QU in the OT based on the way they played the 3rd period and their edge in experience. We'll know soon enough.
MALONEEEEEE
Quote from: scoop85Among the names in the transfer portal is UCONN's Matthew Wood, a 1st round draftee in the 2022 NHL draft. Rumored to be looking at Minnesota/Wisconsin/NoDak. If he leaves a big loss for a Huskies program trying to gain relevance.
When is the Transfer Portal deadline? or does such a thing exist?
Quote from: DuncMALONEEEEEE
Boy were those mixed feels. :-/
Quote from: TrotskyQuote from: DuncMALONEEEEEE
Boy were those mixed feels. :-/
No need to have mixed emotions about a grad transfer.
Quote from: ugarteQuote from: TrotskyQuote from: DuncMALONEEEEEE
Boy were those mixed feels. :-/
No need to have mixed emotions about a grad transfer.
Player transfers from Cornell prior to graduating—>actively root against them
Player transfers from Cornell after playing four years here—>don't root for or against them, but generally would prefer they don't succeed on their new team to make me feel less bad about the Ivy's idiotic rules
That wasn't it at all.
The mixed feels was wishing he was still with us, but also being happy for him. There was nothing vituperative.
I wouldn't root against a guy who left us either. It wasn't a good fit.
But I'm also friends with my exes, so...
I'm rather indifferent to the guys who leave before graduating, but have no trouble supporting the players who do well as grad transfers (well, maybe Zach Tupker would be an exception). I was thrilled for Malone, especially because he knocked out QU. It would have exacerbated my frustration over the Denver loss if QU had somehow gotten to another FF and knocked off the #1 team to do it. And to their credit did they come close.
Mid-majors like RIT, Michigan Tech, Army are getting absolutely wrecked in the transfer portal right now.
We don't have to contend with Cooper Black anymore. He just signed an entry level contract with Florida.
And now QU's Jacob Quillan has signed with Toronto.
< Moved to departure thread. >
Quote from: BearLoverMid-majors like RIT, Michigan Tech, Army are getting absolutely wrecked in the transfer portal right now.
How does it work with the academies? Isn't that a little... complicated?
< Moved to departure thread. >
Lynah East has a good deal going. If you put down a $50 deposit for season tickets by April 15, not only do you get free parking for the entire winter sports season, but you also get: Priority Access to Additional Tickets for Premium Games: Get access to purchase additional tickets to our premium home matchups, including Harvard-Cornell. You also are assured the same seat for every game, and first dibs on postseason tickets as well as priority access to watch Harvard lose in the Beanpot.
https://twitter.com/skatingsaints/status/1774946357322620946
Quote from: VIEWfromKhttps://twitter.com/skatingsaints/status/1774946357322620946
When will we see a four school player?
Quote from: arugulaQuote from: VIEWfromKhttps://twitter.com/skatingsaints/status/1774946357322620946
When will we see a four school player?
I wouldn't be surprised if it's happened already but it's far less likely because you'd have to sit out a year when transferring more than once as an undergrad in most situations. Three schools is a lot easier because you get the one transfer with immediate eligibility and then you're also eligible right away as a grad transfer.
Basse is actually a great pick up for a school like Saint Lawrence. Seems like a weird choice on Basse's part but who am I to judge.
Quote from: chimpfoodBasse is actually a great pick up for a school like Saint Lawrence. Seems like a weird choice on Basse's part but who am I to judge.
Maybe he is already on campus if he transferred so as to enjoy the Eclipse.
He played two years at Colorado College (41 games) and two years at St. Cloud State (44 games), isn't his eligibility used up? I assume he's a grad student, how much time does he get? Does the odometer turn back to zero?
Quote from: George64He played two years at Colorado College (41 games) and two years at St. Cloud State (44 games), isn't his eligibility used up? I assume he's a grad student, how much time does he get? Does the odometer turn back to zero?
probably still a COVID bonus year
Quote from: ugarteQuote from: George64He played two years at Colorado College (41 games) and two years at St. Cloud State (44 games), isn't his eligibility used up? I assume he's a grad student, how much time does he get? Does the odometer turn back to zero?
probably still a COVID bonus year
I thought COVID only gave you an extra year to do your 4. I'm at a loss to see how somebody with 4 full years can come back, unless it's a one semester thing like Inglehart.
Covid year never happened in the scheme of things.
Quote from: upprdeckCovid year never happened in the scheme of things.
Exactly. Clearly, since he played 20+ games that year but then was denied the opportunity to ride the bench in a couple of league playoff games, he deserves another entire year of eligibility, the poor dear.
I am so over COVID 5th years.
Quote from: TrotskyQuote from: ugarteQuote from: George64He played two years at Colorado College (41 games) and two years at St. Cloud State (44 games), isn't his eligibility used up? I assume he's a grad student, how much time does he get? Does the odometer turn back to zero?
probably still a COVID bonus year
I thought COVID only gave you an extra year to do your 4. I'm at a loss to see how somebody with 4 full years can come back, unless it's a one semester thing like Inglehart.
The COVID year of 2020-21 did not count towards the four years of eligibility. That's why for several years now we've been going up against opponents playing their fifth season of college hockey. Several teams like Quinnipiac and Western Michigan are loaded with players who have played five full seasons.
I did not know that. Yikes.
Quote from: TrotskyI did not know that. Yikes.
Due respect man, but how the F did you not know that?*
Meme posts and crank aside, you're pretty knowledgeable and lucid (most of the time).
*Possible exception if your browser extension that blocks you from seeing any bearlover posts just broke down, and this is the first time the 5th year rant got through
I knew about the 5th year. But I thought it had to do time lost to COVID. Not counting time played during COVID is seriously weird to me. I may just have mentally blocked it out as absurd, like MLB extra innings and professionals allowed in the Olympics.
Quote from: TrotskyI did not know that. Yikes.
Yeah no offense but have you really never clicked the stats page of an opposing player on CHN or a similar site? This has been happening in every college sport, not just hockey, since 2020-21. When Quinnipiac won the title last year, they had like nine players playing the fifth full college hockey season.
Quote from: TrotskyI knew about the 5th year. But I thought it had to do time lost to COVID. Not counting time played during COVID is seriously weird to me. I may just have mentally blocked it out as absurd, like MLB extra innings a d professional allowed in the Olympics.
TBH I didn't know this either until I read an article on Caitlin Clark which claimed she is eligible to come back for a fifth season despite playing 30 games in the COVID year of 2020-21 (though she probably won't). I thought the reporter was seriously misinformed, but nope, it's all true.
Quote from: TrotskyI knew about the 5th year. But I thought it had to do time lost to COVID. Not counting time played during COVID is seriously weird to me. I may just have mentally blocked it out as absurd, like MLB extra innings a d professional allowed in the Olympics.
I did not know that either, but then I've paid less attention to college hockey in the past few years.
Still, it seems completely bonkers. The effect seems to be to reward programs that were
less concerned about public health in 2020-2021.
Quote from: jtwcornell91Quote from: TrotskyI knew about the 5th year. But I thought it had to do time lost to COVID. Not counting time played during COVID is seriously weird to me. I may just have mentally blocked it out as absurd, like MLB extra innings a d professional allowed in the Olympics.
I did not know that either, but then I've paid less attention to college hockey in the past few years.
Still, it seems completely bonkers. The effect seems to be to reward programs that were less concerned about public health in 2020-2021.
Exactly! Not only did those players and programs get an extra year of flexibility compared to the Ivy students and programs, they got an extra year of experience, too.
Quote from: pjd8Quote from: jtwcornell91Quote from: TrotskyI knew about the 5th year. But I thought it had to do time lost to COVID. Not counting time played during COVID is seriously weird to me. I may just have mentally blocked it out as absurd, like MLB extra innings a d professional allowed in the Olympics.
I did not know that either, but then I've paid less attention to college hockey in the past few years.
Still, it seems completely bonkers. The effect seems to be to reward programs that were less concerned about public health in 2020-2021.
Exactly! Not only did those players and programs get an extra year of flexibility compared to the Ivy students and programs, they got an extra year of experience, too.
We've been saying this for years! Where have you all been?
Gabe Seger was a student at Union for three years, before transferring to Cornell for two additional years.
- AHCA All-American Scholar (2020-21)
- ECAC Hockey All-Rookie Team (2019-20)
- ECAC Hockey All-Academic Team (2019-20, 2020-21, 2021-22)
Union's 2020-21 season was canceled due to COVID, so he only competed for four years. Could Gabe play another year as a grad student at a non-Ivy? Given his academic record, he'd have no trouble getting into a quality school.
Quote from: George64Gabe Seger was a student at Union for three years, before transferring to Cornell for two additional years.
- AHCA All-American Scholar (2020-21)
- ECAC Hockey All-Rookie Team (2019-20)
- ECAC Hockey All-Academic Team (2019-20, 2020-21, 2021-22)
Union's 2020-21 season was canceled due to COVID, so he only competed for four years. Could Gabe play another year as a grad student at a non-Ivy? Given his academic record, he'd have no trouble getting into a quality school.
No, his eligibility is exhausted. The rule is simply that the 2020-21 season didn't count towards the four years of eligibility. Seger sat out 2020-21 and played four other seasons.
Quote from: BearLoverQuote from: pjd8Quote from: jtwcornell91Quote from: TrotskyI knew about the 5th year. But I thought it had to do time lost to COVID. Not counting time played during COVID is seriously weird to me. I may just have mentally blocked it out as absurd, like MLB extra innings a d professional allowed in the Olympics.
I did not know that either, but then I've paid less attention to college hockey in the past few years.
Still, it seems completely bonkers. The effect seems to be to reward programs that were less concerned about public health in 2020-2021.
Exactly! Not only did those players and programs get an extra year of flexibility compared to the Ivy students and programs, they got an extra year of experience, too.
We've been saying this for years! Where have you all been?
They Must have had you on mute
Quote from: chimpfoodBasse is actually a great pick up for a school like Saint Lawrence. Seems like a weird choice on Basse's part but who am I to judge.
Basse was replaced as the No. 1 guy for St. Cloud in the last couple months of the season, by a freshman. He faced the prospect of playing very little next season at St. Cloud
Quote from: adamwQuote from: chimpfoodBasse is actually a great pick up for a school like Saint Lawrence. Seems like a weird choice on Basse's part but who am I to judge.
Basse was replaced as the No. 1 guy for St. Cloud in the last couple months of the season, by a freshman. He faced the prospect of playing very little next season at St. Cloud
Im not saying it was a wierd choice for him to leave but that it was a weird choice to choose Saint Lawrence.
Quote from: chimpfoodQuote from: adamwQuote from: chimpfoodBasse is actually a great pick up for a school like Saint Lawrence. Seems like a weird choice on Basse's part but who am I to judge.
Basse was replaced as the No. 1 guy for St. Cloud in the last couple months of the season, by a freshman. He faced the prospect of playing very little next season at St. Cloud
Im not saying it was a wierd choice for him to leave but that it was a weird choice to choose Saint Lawrence.
with Craws leaving, seems like a good opportunity.
Quote from: chimpfoodQuote from: adamwQuote from: chimpfoodBasse is actually a great pick up for a school like Saint Lawrence. Seems like a weird choice on Basse's part but who am I to judge.
Basse was replaced as the No. 1 guy for St. Cloud in the last couple months of the season, by a freshman. He faced the prospect of playing very little next season at St. Cloud
Im not saying it was a wierd choice for him to leave but that it was a weird choice to choose Saint Lawrence.
Just like when Kraws went there, there are few opportunities for 5th year goalies on the skids.
Hell of a game going between Denver and BU. I'll be cheering for whoever wins this in the final.
That overtime was amazing.
Was rooting for BU shockingly. Eastern bias. We beat them. Caron was an Ivy Leaguer. If BC gets through have to root for them-Malone.
Quote from: arugulaWas rooting for BU shockingly. Eastern bias. We beat them. Caron was an Ivy Leaguer. If BC gets through have to root for them-Malone.
Agree on all points.
You have to give Denver credit for winning three straight 2-1 games, two in OT, especially since until the NCAAs began they hadn't won a game all season when they scored less than three goals.
Quote from: arugulaWas rooting for BU shockingly. Eastern bias. We beat them. Caron was an Ivy Leaguer. If BC gets through have to root for them-Malone.
Also 5<9.
Keeps Cornell in the running to get to 10 first. :)
I completely forgot this game was on.
Schafer just got a shoutout on the BC Michigan broadcast.
Quote from: RobbKeeps Cornell in the running to get to 10 first. :)
This (http://www.tbrw.info/?/ncaa_History/ncaa_Champion_by_Team.htm). ::cheer::
Quote from: TrotskyQuote from: RobbKeeps Cornell in the running to get to 10 first. :)
This (http://www.tbrw.info/?/ncaa_History/ncaa_Champion_by_Team.htm). ::cheer::
Fuck. First to 11, then.
At least we gave the champs a better game tbh an the runner up.
Pretty crazy that going into the frozen four it was the four highest scoring teams in the country but the games had an average of 3 goals total. Goes to show how hockey in the playoffs is much more defense oriented, and that being the way Schafer has us play all season helps us come playoff time.
Quote from: RobbQuote from: TrotskyQuote from: RobbKeeps Cornell in the running to get to 10 first. :)
This (http://www.tbrw.info/?/ncaa_History/ncaa_Champion_by_Team.htm). ::cheer::
Fuck. First to 11, then.
At least we gave the champs a better game tbh an the runner up.
We finish 5th, I'm ok with that. Next year we take the cheese.
I didn't even last 3 minutes trying to be impartial. I hate BC.
Quote from: RobbQuote from: TrotskyQuote from: RobbKeeps Cornell in the running to get to 10 first. :)
This (http://www.tbrw.info/?/ncaa_History/ncaa_Champion_by_Team.htm). ::cheer::
Fuck. First to 11, then.
At least we gave the champs a better game tbh a the runner up.
Denver has lost one NCAA tournament game since the pandemic-affected seasons.
Quote from: TrotskyQuote from: RobbKeeps Cornell in the running to get to 10 first. :)
This (http://www.tbrw.info/?/ncaa_History/ncaa_Champion_by_Team.htm). ::cheer::
Damn... Nice run by Michigan, winning in 51,52,53,55,56.
Scoured the list to see who bumped them off in 54. Shocked to see it was RPI!
This puts a loss and a win we had in a different light: the loss to Denver and the win over BU.
I didn't see BC doing anything against DU better than we did. They had a great pp chance and a few other solid ones but they weren't better at getting through center ice or forechecking or controlling the puck than we were. Our play against DU was that of a team that is DU's near equal.
I didn't see the BU win, but a lot of folk seemed to think it was lucky. Maybe not so much. Maybe that game played out the way it did because the way the two teams caused it to, complementing styles that inevitably result in one team looking better but not really being better.
Announcers are always going to get excited about teams that are flashy, score a lot, are fast, etc. Their comments serve as a least common denominator, accessible to anyone, to keep the guy with the remote from switching to golf or WFF.
The teams that are patient, opportunistic, play good defense are a harder sell.
As the announcer alluded, DU played a lot like Cornell (even against Cornell they did), only a bit better than us.
Quote from: abmarksQuote from: TrotskyQuote from: RobbKeeps Cornell in the running to get to 10 first. :)
This (http://www.tbrw.info/?/ncaa_History/ncaa_Champion_by_Team.htm). ::cheer::
Damn... Nice run by Michigan, winning in 51,52,53,55,56.
Scoured the list to see who bumped them off in 54. Shocked to see it was RPI!
It was Ned Harkness.
Quote from: TrotskyI didn't even last 3 minutes trying to be impartial. I hate BC.
BC West vs. BC East as far as I'm concerned. Both teams' fans suck and are reviled by their respective conferences. And what school doesn't bring their own band to the FF?!
A pox on both their houses.
Denver was lucky to win the first 3 games and then played a really nice final game to win it all.
Quote from: upprdeckDenver was lucky to win the first 3 games and then played a really nice final game to win it all.
They were pretty lucky to win the final too. To win the NCAA tournament, extremely good luck is basically a prerequisite.
Quote from: Scersk '97Both teams' fans suck and are reviled by their respective conferences.
You know who else's fans are hated in their conference?
I've always liked Denver. For me the ideal F4 would be us, Denver, BU, and Wisco.
Quote from: Scersk '97BC West vs. BC East as far as I'm concerned.
BC West is Minny.
Quote from: TrotskyQuote from: Scersk '97Both teams' fans suck and are reviled by their respective conferences.
You know who else's fans are hated in their conference?
I've always liked Denver. For me the ideal F4 would be us, Denver, BU, and Wisco.
That's a lot of red.
Quote from: RichHQuote from: TrotskyQuote from: Scersk '97Both teams' fans suck and are reviled by their respective conferences.
You know who else's fans are hated in their conference?
I've always liked Denver. For me the ideal F4 would be us, Denver, BU, and Wisco.
That's a lot of red.
Good.
Quote from: TrotskyQuote from: abmarksQuote from: TrotskyQuote from: RobbKeeps Cornell in the running to get to 10 first. :)
This (http://www.tbrw.info/?/ncaa_History/ncaa_Champion_by_Team.htm). ::cheer::
Damn... Nice run by Michigan, winning in 51,52,53,55,56.
Scoured the list to see who bumped them off in 54. Shocked to see it was RPI!
It was Ned Harkness.
The RPI win over Michigan was in the semis. RPI defeated Minnesota in OT in the finals.
Quote from: TrotskyQuote from: Scersk '97Both teams' fans suck and are reviled by their respective conferences.
You know who else's fans are hated in their conference?
I've always liked Denver. For me the ideal F4 would be us, Denver, BU, and Wisco.
Eh, I don't think we're hated overly much, for the same reasons I can't hate the Minnesota fans: there are just enough doomsayers and Eeyores that it keeps the fan base quasi-humble, and they've got a good band.
As far as your group goes, I'll take it. If I have to pick amongst the "blue bloods," I'd swap in UND for Denver.
In a perfect world of unreality, I'd swap in Michigan Tech.
(And I'd never swap in any of our ECAC brethren. A loss to one of them would be just crushing.)
The perfect scenario is Cornell > Harvard / Clarkson > SLU / Cornell > Clarkson.
Laughing at teams like BC/BU/NoDak/Quinnipiac losing just doesn't hit the same when they've won national championships recently. (BU fans might try to claim 15 years is a long time, but to a Cornell fan it's definitely not.) At the same time, each brutal loss by Cornell feels extra crushing because it's been so long since we've won at hockey or lacrosse ("our sports," as scoop85 puts it). I'd shrug off our loss to Denver this year in hockey or today's lax loss to ND much more easily if we had actually won it all recently. But that hasn't happened since the 70s. I know others on this forum have been enduring heartbreaking losses for longer than I have, but it's starting to wear on me too.
Quote from: adamwJust like when Kraws went there [Saint Lawrence], there are few opportunities for 5th year goalies on the skids.
Just as Bogey and Bergman always had Paris, Bwen Kraws will always have Lake Placid and that 3-0 shutout of Quinnipiac. It improved his standing as he headed to the pros.
At the Cornell-at-St. Lawrence game, I sat in the top row of a section that included SLU partisans. Kraws
pere was standing at the concourse rail right behind us. A woman I know said he was
intense. I would say he was a mainstream hockey parent. Cornell fans owe one to Kraws (goalie) for standing on his head in Lake Placid in that shutout of Quinnipiac. I don't know we could've beaten Q in the final. The Saints made it a moot point.
Quote from: Scersk '97Quote from: TrotskyI didn't even last 3 minutes trying to be impartial. I hate BC.
BC West vs. BC East as far as I'm concerned. Both teams' fans suck and are reviled by their respective conferences. And what school doesn't bring their own band to the FF?!
A pox on both their houses.
I missed the band trivia. Wasn't that a D. U. band?
Quote from: BearLoverLaughing at teams like BC/BU/NoDak/Quinnipiac losing just doesn't hit the same when they've won national championships recently. (BU fans might try to claim 15 years is a long time, but to a Cornell fan it's definitely not.) At the same time, each brutal loss by Cornell feels extra crushing because it's been so long since we've won at hockey or lacrosse ("our sports," as scoop85 puts it). I'd shrug off our loss to Denver this year in hockey or today's lax loss to ND much more easily if we had actually won it all recently. But that hasn't happened since the 70s. I know others on this forum have been enduring heartbreaking losses for longer than I have, but it's starting to wear on me too.
This is what I was thinking after the Notre Dame loss yesterday. How many crushing losses does Cornell get to suffer? Otoh you have to be good to be in position to lose in crushing fashion.
Quote from: arugulaQuote from: BearLoverLaughing at teams like BC/BU/NoDak/Quinnipiac losing just doesn't hit the same when they've won national championships recently. (BU fans might try to claim 15 years is a long time, but to a Cornell fan it's definitely not.) At the same time, each brutal loss by Cornell feels extra crushing because it's been so long since we've won at hockey or lacrosse ("our sports," as scoop85 puts it). I'd shrug off our loss to Denver this year in hockey or today's lax loss to ND much more easily if we had actually won it all recently. But that hasn't happened since the 70s. I know others on this forum have been enduring heartbreaking losses for longer than I have, but it's starting to wear on me too.
This is what I was thinking after the Notre Dame loss yesterday. How many crushing losses does Cornell get to suffer? Otoh you have to be good to be in position to lose in crushing fashion.
Sure, I had this thought too. But just this season in lax we pulled out remarkable wins against Princeton and Syracuse, so it's not all a one way street.
Quote from: arugulaQuote from: BearLoverLaughing at teams like BC/BU/NoDak/Quinnipiac losing just doesn't hit the same when they've won national championships recently. (BU fans might try to claim 15 years is a long time, but to a Cornell fan it's definitely not.) At the same time, each brutal loss by Cornell feels extra crushing because it's been so long since we've won at hockey or lacrosse ("our sports," as scoop85 puts it). I'd shrug off our loss to Denver this year in hockey or today's lax loss to ND much more easily if we had actually won it all recently. But that hasn't happened since the 70s. I know others on this forum have been enduring heartbreaking losses for longer than I have, but it's starting to wear on me too.
This is what I was thinking after the Notre Dame loss yesterday. How many crushing losses does Cornell get to suffer? Otoh you have to be good to be in position to lose in crushing fashion.
I prefer to have a different viewpoint.
Arguably, both the DU & ND losses were due to first-year mistakes by key players who are likely superstars. They won't make the same mistakes again. Hopefully they will both make amends, one as soon as May 27 this year in Philadelphia and the other, next year on April 12 in St. Lewis.
That these are realistic hopes for Cornell fans is something to be celebrated.
Quote from: SwampyQuote from: arugulaQuote from: BearLoverLaughing at teams like BC/BU/NoDak/Quinnipiac losing just doesn't hit the same when they've won national championships recently. (BU fans might try to claim 15 years is a long time, but to a Cornell fan it's definitely not.) At the same time, each brutal loss by Cornell feels extra crushing because it's been so long since we've won at hockey or lacrosse ("our sports," as scoop85 puts it). I'd shrug off our loss to Denver this year in hockey or today's lax loss to ND much more easily if we had actually won it all recently. But that hasn't happened since the 70s. I know others on this forum have been enduring heartbreaking losses for longer than I have, but it's starting to wear on me too.
This is what I was thinking after the Notre Dame loss yesterday. How many crushing losses does Cornell get to suffer? Otoh you have to be good to be in position to lose in crushing fashion.
I prefer to have a different viewpoint.
Arguably, both the DU & ND losses were due to first-year mistakes by key players who are likely superstars. They won't make the same mistakes again. Hopefully they will both make amends, one as soon as May 27 this year in Philadelphia and the other, next year on April 12 in St. Lewis.
That these are realistic hopes for Cornell fans is something to be celebrated.
That hasn't happened in 50 years, though. So it doesn't feel very realistic.
Quote from: martyQuote from: Scersk '97Quote from: TrotskyI didn't even last 3 minutes trying to be impartial. I hate BC.
BC West vs. BC East as far as I'm concerned. Both teams' fans suck and are reviled by their respective conferences. And what school doesn't bring their own band to the FF?!
A pox on both their houses.
I missed the band trivia. Wasn't that a D. U. band?
So that Scott doesn't have to answer twice, whose band was it? I was actually pleasantly surprised that Denver has a band now (or so I thought).
Quote from: Scersk '97what school doesn't bring their own band to the FF?!
Well, Bemidji State, but I was more willing to give them a pass.
Quote from: Scersk '97Quote from: TrotskyQuote from: Scersk '97Both teams' fans suck and are reviled by their respective conferences.
You know who else's fans are hated in their conference?
I've always liked Denver. For me the ideal F4 would be us, Denver, BU, and Wisco.
Eh, I don't think we're hated overly much, for the same reasons I can't hate the Minnesota fans: there are just enough doomsayers and Eeyores that it keeps the fan base quasi-humble, and they've got a good band.
As far as your group goes, I'll take it. If I have to pick amongst the "blue bloods," I'd swap in UND for Denver.
In a perfect world of unreality, I'd swap in Michigan Tech.
(And I'd never swap in any of our ECAC brethren. A loss to one of them would be just crushing.)
I'd pick three from BU, Clarkson, Wisconsin, Michigan Tech, and Minnesota-Duluth.
Quote from: BearLoverQuote from: SwampyQuote from: arugulaQuote from: BearLoverLaughing at teams like BC/BU/NoDak/Quinnipiac losing just doesn't hit the same when they've won national championships recently. (BU fans might try to claim 15 years is a long time, but to a Cornell fan it's definitely not.) At the same time, each brutal loss by Cornell feels extra crushing because it's been so long since we've won at hockey or lacrosse ("our sports," as scoop85 puts it). I'd shrug off our loss to Denver this year in hockey or today's lax loss to ND much more easily if we had actually won it all recently. But that hasn't happened since the 70s. I know others on this forum have been enduring heartbreaking losses for longer than I have, but it's starting to wear on me too.
This is what I was thinking after the Notre Dame loss yesterday. How many crushing losses does Cornell get to suffer? Otoh you have to be good to be in position to lose in crushing fashion.
I prefer to have a different viewpoint.
Arguably, both the DU & ND losses were due to first-year mistakes by key players who are likely superstars. They won't make the same mistakes again. Hopefully they will both make amends, one as soon as May 27 this year in Philadelphia and the other, next year on April 12 in St. Lewis.
That these are realistic hopes for Cornell fans is something to be celebrated.
That hasn't happened in 50 years, though. So it doesn't feel very realistic.
ok eeyore it's getting a little tiresome even to me
Quote from: ugarteQuote from: BearLoverQuote from: SwampyQuote from: arugulaQuote from: BearLoverLaughing at teams like BC/BU/NoDak/Quinnipiac losing just doesn't hit the same when they've won national championships recently. (BU fans might try to claim 15 years is a long time, but to a Cornell fan it's definitely not.) At the same time, each brutal loss by Cornell feels extra crushing because it's been so long since we've won at hockey or lacrosse ("our sports," as scoop85 puts it). I'd shrug off our loss to Denver this year in hockey or today's lax loss to ND much more easily if we had actually won it all recently. But that hasn't happened since the 70s. I know others on this forum have been enduring heartbreaking losses for longer than I have, but it's starting to wear on me too.
This is what I was thinking after the Notre Dame loss yesterday. How many crushing losses does Cornell get to suffer? Otoh you have to be good to be in position to lose in crushing fashion.
I prefer to have a different viewpoint.
Arguably, both the DU & ND losses were due to first-year mistakes by key players who are likely superstars. They won't make the same mistakes again. Hopefully they will both make amends, one as soon as May 27 this year in Philadelphia and the other, next year on April 12 in St. Lewis.
That these are realistic hopes for Cornell fans is something to be celebrated.
That hasn't happened in 50 years, though. So it doesn't feel very realistic.
ok eeyore it's getting a little tiresome even to me
Got
Quote from: martyQuote from: Scersk '97Quote from: TrotskyI didn't even last 3 minutes trying to be impartial. I hate BC.
BC West vs. BC East as far as I'm concerned. Both teams' fans suck and are reviled by their respective conferences. And what school doesn't bring their own band to the FF?!
A pox on both their houses.
I missed the band trivia. Wasn't that a D. U. band?
Edina High School, from Edina, MN. (https://kdvr.com/sports/minnesota-pep-band-helping-du-hit-the-right-notes-at-the-frozen-four/)
Beyond pathetic that DU hasn't had a pep band in 20 years. Guess their fans love the Jock Jams.
Quote from: Scersk '97Quote from: martyQuote from: Scersk '97Quote from: TrotskyI didn't even last 3 minutes trying to be impartial. I hate BC.
BC West vs. BC East as far as I'm concerned. Both teams' fans suck and are reviled by their respective conferences. And what school doesn't bring their own band to the FF?!
A pox on both their houses.
I missed the band trivia. Wasn't that a D. U. band?
Edina High School, from Edina, MN. (https://kdvr.com/sports/minnesota-pep-band-helping-du-hit-the-right-notes-at-the-frozen-four/)
Beyond pathetic that DU hasn't had a pep band in 20 years. Guess their fans love the Jock Jams.
Well that answers why they had no band in Springfield but it doesn't answer why the QCheers were cuter (quter?) than the DUCheers.
Were the cheerleaders ringers, too?
Not that it matters, but this is the final poll. Shouldn't we be 5? No respect
Rnk Team (First Place Votes) Record Points Last Poll
1 Denver (50) 32-9-3 1000 3
2 Boston College 34-6-1 949 1
3 Boston University 28-10-2 898 2
4 Michigan 23-15-3 811 10
5 Michigan State 25-10-3 784 4
6 Quinnipiac 27-10-2 724 8
7 Minnesota 23-11-5 692 7
8 North Dakota 26-12-2 667 5
9 Cornell 22-7-6 582 12
10 Maine 23-12-2 565 6
11 Wisconsin 26-12-2 529 9
12 Omaha 23-13-4 441 11
13 Massachusetts 20-14-3 374 13
14 Western Michigan 21-16-1 362 14
15 Colorado College 21-13-3 300 15
16 Providence 18-13-4 200 16
16 RIT 27-11-2 200 17
18 St. Cloud 17-16-5 146 18
19 Michigan Tech 19-15-6 123 20
20 New Hampshire 20-15-1 100 19
Others receiving
nothing dumber than a post tournament poll
Quote from: ugartenothing dumber than a post tournament poll
yes, but I'm grasping
Quote from: arugulaNot that it matters, but this is the final poll. Shouldn't we be 5? No respect
Rnk Team (First Place Votes) Record Points Last Poll
1 Denver (50) 32-9-3 1000 3
2 Boston College 34-6-1 949 1
3 Boston University 28-10-2 898 2
4 Michigan 23-15-3 811 10
5 Michigan State 25-10-3 784 4
6 Quinnipiac 27-10-2 724 8
7 Minnesota 23-11-5 692 7
8 North Dakota 26-12-2 667 5
9 Cornell 22-7-6 582 12
10 Maine 23-12-2 565 6
11 Wisconsin 26-12-2 529 9
12 Omaha 23-13-4 441 11
13 Massachusetts 20-14-3 374 13
14 Western Michigan 21-16-1 362 14
15 Colorado College 21-13-3 300 15
16 Providence 18-13-4 200 16
16 RIT 27-11-2 200 17
18 St. Cloud 17-16-5 146 18
19 Michigan Tech 19-15-6 123 20
20 New Hampshire 20-15-1 100 19
Others receiving
Cornell at 5 is admittedly debatable, but Cornell should not be behind any team that couldn't manage to win a single game in this tournament (i.e., North Dakota).
Basing five on the fact that we lost to the eventual champion. Therefore Q is 6, etc.
Quote from: arugulaQuote from: ugartenothing dumber than a post tournament poll
yes, but I'm grasping
Dumb would also be not doing the poll. Gives the voters a chance to seed differently from how the brackets turn out, to upvote somebody who was really good and ran into a buzzsaw early in the tournament. In another bracket, they might have gone further. Where would Denver have been seeded if one of those UMass pipe shots gone in in Springfield and that was it for the Pioneers, or if it we'd forced overtime in the Springfield finals?
Been said here before: Tournaments determine champions, not best teams. Okay, in 2024 men's basketball, UConn was also the best team: 23 point average margin of victory over the tournament, closest game +14 over Alabama.
Quote from: billhowardQuote from: arugulaQuote from: ugartenothing dumber than a post tournament poll
yes, but I'm grasping
Dumb would also be not doing the poll. Gives the voters a chance to seed differently from how the brackets turn out, to upvote somebody who was really good and ran into a buzzsaw early in the tournament. In another bracket, they might have gone further. Where would Denver have been seeded if one of those UMass pipe shots gone in in Springfield and that was it for the Pioneers, or if it we'd forced overtime in the Springfield finals?
Been said here before: Tournaments determine champions, not best teams. Okay, in 2024 men's basketball, UConn was also the best team: 23 point average margin of victory over the tournament, closest game +14 over Alabama.
but who cares about their opinions after the tournament?
"We've thought about it and even though you lost, you shouldn't have. Stop cryin, it's a compliment!"
Quote from: upprdeckDenver was lucky to win the first 3 games and then played a really nice final game to win it all.
Interestingly, Denver played an indirect, but significant role, in Cornell's emergence as a hockey power.
Ned Harkness was good friends with Murray Armstrong, the highly successful coach at Denver from 1956-77 (460-215-31), with five NCAA Championships. Armstrong had scouted twin brothers from Birsay, Saskatchewan, but at 5'9", he thought they were too small to play in the WCHA, and recommended them to Ned. Doug and Dave's father told Ned that younger brother Bobby had to be part of package, and in 1963, the three Ferguson brothers matriculated at Cornell. As a junior, Doug scored a nation-leading 71 points and set a Cornell record with 37 goals. The rest is history.
Tragically, Dave died at age 34 in an auto accident, 10 years after Cornell's first NCAA championship. Doug died in 2003, and Bobby in 2010.
Quote from: arugulaBasing five on the fact that we lost to the eventual champion.
I've been meaning to go back and edit the NT and ET fields in the CHDB to reflect this, now that consies are dead forever.
3 - lost to 1 in SF
4 - lost to 2 in SF
5 - lost to 1 in QF
...
Can easily be altered to deal with byes, etc.
CHN has syer as a finalist for the Princeton head coaching job.
Quote from: chimpfoodCHN has syer as a finalist for the Princeton head coaching job.
Funny considering quite a few of the past years Syer has subbed for Schafer behind at Princeton due to illness
Quote from: adamwI should probably just shut up - but I'm not good at that.
I think Ben Syer and Topher are great guys. Neither will be the next coach. Casey Jones is one of my favorite people in hockey, and I think he's a great coach. However, he's only 4 years younger than Coach Schafer - and so it won't be him either.
I'd be curious to hear adamw's response to the CHN report that Syer is a finalist for the Princeton head coaching job. A few months ago adamw was suggesting Syer would not be the next head coach of Cornell. Why would Princeton be an option, but not Cornell?
Quote from: IcebergQuote from: chimpfoodCHN has syer as a finalist for the Princeton head coaching job.
Funny considering quite a few of the past years Syer has subbed for Schafer behind at Princeton due to illness
He's something like 9-1 (yes, I know the results go to Mike).
Quote from: TrotskyQuote from: IcebergQuote from: chimpfoodCHN has syer as a finalist for the Princeton head coaching job.
Funny considering quite a few of the past years Syer has subbed for Schafer behind at Princeton due to illness
He's something like 9-1 (yes, I know the results go to Mike).
That was before Schafer was out with an illness in 2021-22. Syer's record wasn't as good that year.
Quote from: chimpfoodCHN has syer as a finalist for the Princeton head coaching job.
Leave a link next time?
For those of you looking, its at https://www.collegehockeynews.com/news/2024/04/18_Princeton-Zeroing-In-on-New.php
Also, it doesn't exactly say he's a finalist. It says
" Among those who have interviewed, or were expected to, are Cornell assistant Ben Syer, Michigan assistant Rob Rassey, and Arizona State assistant Dana Borges"
Re: bearlovers question about why Princeton but not Cornell: bearlover, thatd be a good question if syer was offered the job or the first.or second choice. But all this says is that he interviewed, and he's interviewed for plenty of gigs over the years iirc. (Tsk tsk chimpfood for the misleading post).
Maybe the more pertinent question is why is syer still at Cornell, despite interviewing for other gigs frequently over the years? (Someone correct.me.if it hasn't been that often)
Is it because he doesn't want to leave? Or is it because no one will offer.him a HC job? Time will tell
Quote from: abmarksQuote from: chimpfoodCHN has syer as a finalist for the Princeton head coaching job.
Leave a link next time?
For those of you looking, its at https://www.collegehockeynews.com/news/2024/04/18_Princeton-Zeroing-In-on-New.php
Also, it doesn't exactly say he's a finalist. It says
" Among those who have interviewed, or were expected to, are Cornell assistant Ben Syer, Michigan assistant Rob Rassey, and Arizona State assistant Dana Borges"
Re: bearlovers question about why Princeton but not Cornell: bearlover, thatd be a good question if syer was offered the job or the first.or second choice. But all this says is that he interviewed, and he's interviewed for plenty of gigs over the years iirc. (Tsk tsk chimpfood for the misleading post).
Maybe the more pertinent question is why is syer still at Cornell, despite interviewing for other gigs frequently over the years? (Someone correct.me.if it hasn't been that often)
Is it because he doesn't want to leave? Or is it because no one will offer.him a HC job? Time will tell
First of all, a more polite and way to start your post would be to say: "here's the link, if anybody needs," or something to that effect.
Second, I'm pretty certain this story has been edited. I don't have the earlier version in front of me (because it's been edited), but I am 90% sure the earlier version DID say something along the lines of "finalist," i.e. language that was the same or similar to chimpfood's.
Quote from: abmarksMaybe the more pertinent question is why is syer still at Cornell, despite interviewing for other gigs frequently over the years? (Someone correct.me.if it hasn't been that often)
Is it because he doesn't want to leave? Or is it because no one will offer.him a HC job? Time will tell
One likely factor is that Ben's wife Laura is Cornell's Vice President of Budget and Planning. So my guess is that Ben doesn't take a head coaching job at Princeton or any other school unless it's packaged with a similar gig for Laura.
Quote from: BearLoverQuote from: abmarksQuote from: chimpfoodCHN has syer as a finalist for the Princeton head coaching job.
Leave a link next time?
For those of you looking, its at https://www.collegehockeynews.com/news/2024/04/18_Princeton-Zeroing-In-on-New.php
Also, it doesn't exactly say he's a finalist. It says
" Among those who have interviewed, or were expected to, are Cornell assistant Ben Syer, Michigan assistant Rob Rassey, and Arizona State assistant Dana Borges"
Re: bearlovers question about why Princeton but not Cornell: bearlover, thatd be a good question if syer was offered the job or the first.or second choice. But all this says is that he interviewed, and he's interviewed for plenty of gigs over the years iirc. (Tsk tsk chimpfood for the misleading post).
Maybe the more pertinent question is why is syer still at Cornell, despite interviewing for other gigs frequently over the years? (Someone correct.me.if it hasn't been that often)
Is it because he doesn't want to leave? Or is it because no one will offer.him a HC job? Time will tell
First of all, a more polite and way to start your post would be to say: "here's the link, if anybody needs," or something to that effect.
Second, I'm pretty certain this story has been edited. I don't have the earlier version in front of me (because it's been edited), but I am 90% sure the earlier version DID say something along the lines of "finalist," i.e. language that was the same or similar to chimpfood's.
Touchy touchy. Only bearlover would still feel insulted the one time I don't shit on him.
I was critiquing chimpfoods laziness, not yours bearlover, which is why I mentioned the link immediately after the chimpfood quote.
Bearlover, your question for adamw was said "I'd be curious to hear adamw's response to the CHN report that Syer is a finalist for the Princeton head coaching job". It was fair to assume you were commenting on chimps post since you used the same language. No reason to believe you had read the original article or that it (might) have been revised, since there's no mention of update or revision in the article header.
Regardless, you're asking a good question if he actually is a true finalist for HC elsewhere.
Quote from: WillQuote from: abmarksMaybe the more pertinent question is why is syer still at Cornell, despite interviewing for other gigs frequently over the years? (Someone correct.me.if it hasn't been that often)
Is it because he doesn't want to leave? Or is it because no one will offer.him a HC job? Time will tell
One likely factor is that Ben's wife Laura is Cornell's Vice President of Budget and Planning. So my guess is that Ben doesn't take a head coaching job at Princeton or any other school unless it's packaged with a similar gig for Laura.
That is how the game is played.
He has deep roots with Q as well, so perhaps he is thinking either Q or Cornell.
Quote from: abmarksQuote from: BearLoverQuote from: abmarksQuote from: chimpfoodCHN has syer as a finalist for the Princeton head coaching job.
Leave a link next time?
For those of you looking, its at https://www.collegehockeynews.com/news/2024/04/18_Princeton-Zeroing-In-on-New.php
Also, it doesn't exactly say he's a finalist. It says
" Among those who have interviewed, or were expected to, are Cornell assistant Ben Syer, Michigan assistant Rob Rassey, and Arizona State assistant Dana Borges"
Re: bearlovers question about why Princeton but not Cornell: bearlover, thatd be a good question if syer was offered the job or the first.or second choice. But all this says is that he interviewed, and he's interviewed for plenty of gigs over the years iirc. (Tsk tsk chimpfood for the misleading post).
Maybe the more pertinent question is why is syer still at Cornell, despite interviewing for other gigs frequently over the years? (Someone correct.me.if it hasn't been that often)
Is it because he doesn't want to leave? Or is it because no one will offer.him a HC job? Time will tell
First of all, a more polite and way to start your post would be to say: "here's the link, if anybody needs," or something to that effect.
Second, I'm pretty certain this story has been edited. I don't have the earlier version in front of me (because it's been edited), but I am 90% sure the earlier version DID say something along the lines of "finalist," i.e. language that was the same or similar to chimpfood's.
Touchy touchy. Only bearlover would still feel insulted the one time I don't shit on him.
I was critiquing chimpfoods laziness, not yours bearlover, which is why I mentioned the link immediately after the chimpfood quote.
Bearlover, your question for adamw was said "I'd be curious to hear adamw's response to the CHN report that Syer is a finalist for the Princeton head coaching job". It was fair to assume you were commenting on chimps post since you used the same language. No reason to believe you had read the original article or that it (might) have been revised, since there's no mention of update or revision in the article header.
Regardless, you're asking a good question if he actually is a true finalist for HC elsewhere.
I believe the story ysed to say that Syer was one of two "front runners."
Quote from: BearLoverQuote from: abmarksQuote from: chimpfoodCHN has syer as a finalist for the Princeton head coaching job.
Leave a link next time?
For those of you looking, its at https://www.collegehockeynews.com/news/2024/04/18_Princeton-Zeroing-In-on-New.php
Also, it doesn't exactly say he's a finalist. It says
" Among those who have interviewed, or were expected to, are Cornell assistant Ben Syer, Michigan assistant Rob Rassey, and Arizona State assistant Dana Borges"
Re: bearlovers question about why Princeton but not Cornell: bearlover, thatd be a good question if syer was offered the job or the first.or second choice. But all this says is that he interviewed, and he's interviewed for plenty of gigs over the years iirc. (Tsk tsk chimpfood for the misleading post).
Maybe the more pertinent question is why is syer still at Cornell, despite interviewing for other gigs frequently over the years? (Someone correct.me.if it hasn't been that often)
Is it because he doesn't want to leave? Or is it because no one will offer.him a HC job? Time will tell
First of all, a more polite and way to start your post would be to say: "here's the link, if anybody needs," or something to that effect.
Second, I'm pretty certain this story has been edited. I don't have the earlier version in front of me (because it's been edited), but I am 90% sure the earlier version DID say something along the lines of "finalist," i.e. language that was the same or similar to chimpfood's.
Yeah, I saw the updated article that said he and a Michigan assistant are supposedly the two finalists (sorry, don't have the link)
Quote from: abmarksQuote from: BearLoverQuote from: abmarksQuote from: chimpfoodCHN has syer as a finalist for the Princeton head coaching job.
Leave a link next time?
For those of you looking, its at https://www.collegehockeynews.com/news/2024/04/18_Princeton-Zeroing-In-on-New.php
Also, it doesn't exactly say he's a finalist. It says
" Among those who have interviewed, or were expected to, are Cornell assistant Ben Syer, Michigan assistant Rob Rassey, and Arizona State assistant Dana Borges"
Re: bearlovers question about why Princeton but not Cornell: bearlover, thatd be a good question if syer was offered the job or the first.or second choice. But all this says is that he interviewed, and he's interviewed for plenty of gigs over the years iirc. (Tsk tsk chimpfood for the misleading post).
Maybe the more pertinent question is why is syer still at Cornell, despite interviewing for other gigs frequently over the years? (Someone correct.me.if it hasn't been that often)
Is it because he doesn't want to leave? Or is it because no one will offer.him a HC job? Time will tell
First of all, a more polite and way to start your post would be to say: "here's the link, if anybody needs," or something to that effect.
Second, I'm pretty certain this story has been edited. I don't have the earlier version in front of me (because it's been edited), but I am 90% sure the earlier version DID say something along the lines of "finalist," i.e. language that was the same or similar to chimpfood's.
Touchy touchy. Only bearlover would still feel insulted the one time I don't shit on him.
I was critiquing chimpfoods laziness, not yours bearlover, which is why I mentioned the link immediately after the chimpfood quote.
Bearlover, your question for adamw was said "I'd be curious to hear adamw's response to the CHN report that Syer is a finalist for the Princeton head coaching job". It was fair to assume you were commenting on chimps post since you used the same language. No reason to believe you had read the original article or that it (might) have been revised, since there's no mention of update or revision in the article header.
Regardless, you're asking a good question if he actually is a true finalist for HC elsewhere.
I knew you were responding to chimp food rather than me. I just thought your phrasing was impolite. I decided to point it out because a lot of your posts have an adversarial tone.
Quote from: BearLoverQuote from: adamwI should probably just shut up - but I'm not good at that.
I think Ben Syer and Topher are great guys. Neither will be the next coach. Casey Jones is one of my favorite people in hockey, and I think he's a great coach. However, he's only 4 years younger than Coach Schafer - and so it won't be him either.
I'd be curious to hear adamw's response to the CHN report that Syer is a finalist for the Princeton head coaching job. A few months ago adamw was suggesting Syer would not be the next head coach of Cornell. Why would Princeton be an option, but not Cornell?
To shove words into Adam's mouth, I took his comments to mean that there's a behind-the-scenes heir apparent to Schafer's job. But I'm reading a lot into it.
Quote from: DafatoneQuote from: BearLoverQuote from: adamwI should probably just shut up - but I'm not good at that.
I think Ben Syer and Topher are great guys. Neither will be the next coach. Casey Jones is one of my favorite people in hockey, and I think he's a great coach. However, he's only 4 years younger than Coach Schafer - and so it won't be him either.
I'd be curious to hear adamw's response to the CHN report that Syer is a finalist for the Princeton head coaching job. A few months ago adamw was suggesting Syer would not be the next head coach of Cornell. Why would Princeton be an option, but not Cornell?
To shove words into Adam's mouth, I took his comments to mean that there's a behind-the-scenes heir apparent to Schafer's job. But I'm reading a lot into it.
Well, he ruled Casey, Syer, and Topher, so I doubt it.
Quote from: DafatoneQuote from: BearLoverQuote from: adamwI should probably just shut up - but I'm not good at that.
I think Ben Syer and Topher are great guys. Neither will be the next coach. Casey Jones is one of my favorite people in hockey, and I think he's a great coach. However, he's only 4 years younger than Coach Schafer - and so it won't be him either.
I'd be curious to hear adamw's response to the CHN report that Syer is a finalist for the Princeton head coaching job. A few months ago adamw was suggesting Syer would not be the next head coach of Cornell. Why would Princeton be an option, but not Cornell?
To shove words into Adam's mouth, I took his comments to mean that there's a behind-the-scenes heir apparent to Schafer's job. But I'm reading a lot into it.
That's funny, I read exactly the opposite -- when Schafer does eventually retire, Cornell will be a plum job attracting nationwide candidates, and it won't just be "promote the assistant."
Quote from: pfibigerQuote from: DafatoneQuote from: BearLoverQuote from: adamwI should probably just shut up - but I'm not good at that.
I think Ben Syer and Topher are great guys. Neither will be the next coach. Casey Jones is one of my favorite people in hockey, and I think he's a great coach. However, he's only 4 years younger than Coach Schafer - and so it won't be him either.
I'd be curious to hear adamw's response to the CHN report that Syer is a finalist for the Princeton head coaching job. A few months ago adamw was suggesting Syer would not be the next head coach of Cornell. Why would Princeton be an option, but not Cornell?
To shove words into Adam's mouth, I took his comments to mean that there's a behind-the-scenes heir apparent to Schafer's job. But I'm reading a lot into it.
That's funny, I read exactly the opposite -- when Schafer does eventually retire, Cornell will be a plum job attracting nationwide candidates, and it won't just be "promote the assistant."
That makes sense, too.
Quote from: DafatoneQuote from: pfibigerQuote from: DafatoneQuote from: BearLoverQuote from: adamwI should probably just shut up - but I'm not good at that.
I think Ben Syer and Topher are great guys. Neither will be the next coach. Casey Jones is one of my favorite people in hockey, and I think he's a great coach. However, he's only 4 years younger than Coach Schafer - and so it won't be him either.
I'd be curious to hear adamw's response to the CHN report that Syer is a finalist for the Princeton head coaching job. A few months ago adamw was suggesting Syer would not be the next head coach of Cornell. Why would Princeton be an option, but not Cornell?
To shove words into Adam's mouth, I took his comments to mean that there's a behind-the-scenes heir apparent to Schafer's job. But I'm reading a lot into it.
That's funny, I read exactly the opposite -- when Schafer does eventually retire, Cornell will be a plum job attracting nationwide candidates, and it won't just be "promote the assistant."
That makes sense, too.
But I don't think either of those interpretations makes too much sense.
There isn't anyone who would be a behind-the-scenes heir apparent that isn't Casey/Syer/Topher, unless it's Doug Derraugh, who would be dismissed as a candidate on the same grounds adamw applied to Casey (being only slightly younger than Schafer).
Moreover, while I think a nationwide coaching search is possible, the very strong trend among Cornell's successful athletics programs has been to promote from within (wrestling, lacrosse, basketball). adamw's statement that these people will "not be the next coach" was written in no uncertain terms. The only justification for adamw's level of certainty that would make sense in this context is that adamw has information that Syer would not want a head coaching job, or he simply isn't cut out to be a head coach. In light of the fact Syer is interviewing for the Princeton position, it appears adamw was wrong. But I'll let him explain his thinking on here.
Quote from: BearLoverQuote from: DafatoneQuote from: pfibigerQuote from: DafatoneQuote from: BearLoverQuote from: adamwI should probably just shut up - but I'm not good at that.
I think Ben Syer and Topher are great guys. Neither will be the next coach. Casey Jones is one of my favorite people in hockey, and I think he's a great coach. However, he's only 4 years younger than Coach Schafer - and so it won't be him either.
I'd be curious to hear adamw's response to the CHN report that Syer is a finalist for the Princeton head coaching job. A few months ago adamw was suggesting Syer would not be the next head coach of Cornell. Why would Princeton be an option, but not Cornell?
To shove words into Adam's mouth, I took his comments to mean that there's a behind-the-scenes heir apparent to Schafer's job. But I'm reading a lot into it.
That's funny, I read exactly the opposite -- when Schafer does eventually retire, Cornell will be a plum job attracting nationwide candidates, and it won't just be "promote the assistant."
That makes sense, too.
But I don't think either of those interpretations makes too much sense.
There isn't anyone who would be a behind-the-scenes heir apparent that isn't Casey/Syer/Topher, unless it's Doug Derraugh, who would be dismissed as a candidate on the same grounds adamw applied to Casey (being only slightly younger than Schafer).
Moreover, while I think a nationwide coaching search is possible, the very strong trend among Cornell's successful athletics programs has been to promote from within (wrestling, lacrosse, basketball). adamw's statement that these people will "not be the next coach" was written in no uncertain terms. The only justification for adamw's level of certainty that would make sense in this context is that adamw has information that Syer would not want a head coaching job, or he simply isn't cut out to be a head coach. In light of the fact Syer is interviewing for the Princeton position, it appears adamw was wrong. But I'll let him explain his thinking on here.
Who was promoted from within and successful in basketball?
Quote from: BearLoverQuote from: DafatoneQuote from: pfibigerQuote from: DafatoneQuote from: BearLoverQuote from: adamwI should probably just shut up - but I'm not good at that.
I think Ben Syer and Topher are great guys. Neither will be the next coach. Casey Jones is one of my favorite people in hockey, and I think he's a great coach. However, he's only 4 years younger than Coach Schafer - and so it won't be him either.
I'd be curious to hear adamw's response to the CHN report that Syer is a finalist for the Princeton head coaching job. A few months ago adamw was suggesting Syer would not be the next head coach of Cornell. Why would Princeton be an option, but not Cornell?
To shove words into Adam's mouth, I took his comments to mean that there's a behind-the-scenes heir apparent to Schafer's job. But I'm reading a lot into it.
That's funny, I read exactly the opposite -- when Schafer does eventually retire, Cornell will be a plum job attracting nationwide candidates, and it won't just be "promote the assistant."
That makes sense, too.
But I don't think either of those interpretations makes too much sense.
There isn't anyone who would be a behind-the-scenes heir apparent that isn't Casey/Syer/Topher, unless it's Doug Derraugh, who would be dismissed as a candidate on the same grounds adamw applied to Casey (being only slightly younger than Schafer).
Moreover, while I think a nationwide coaching search is possible, the very strong trend among Cornell's successful athletics programs has been to promote from within (wrestling, lacrosse, basketball). adamw's statement that these people will "not be the next coach" was written in no uncertain terms. The only justification for adamw's level of certainty that would make sense in this context is that adamw has information that Syer would not want a head coaching job, or he simply isn't cut out to be a head coach. In light of the fact Syer is interviewing for the Princeton position, it appears adamw was wrong. But I'll let him explain his thinking on here.
Way too much speculation going on. Maybe Adam assumed that someone would hire Syer away from Cornell as a HC and then Cornell would not be able to entice him back? Who knows? There are a million scenarios where Syer does not become Cornell HC, and only a few where he does, so maybe Adam is just playing the odds.
Quote from: BearLoverQuote from: adamwI should probably just shut up - but I'm not good at that.
I think Ben Syer and Topher are great guys. Neither will be the next coach. Casey Jones is one of my favorite people in hockey, and I think he's a great coach. However, he's only 4 years younger than Coach Schafer - and so it won't be him either.
I'd be curious to hear adamw's response to the CHN report that Syer is a finalist for the Princeton head coaching job. A few months ago adamw was suggesting Syer would not be the next head coach of Cornell. Why would Princeton be an option, but not Cornell?
"CHN's report" - you mean the one I wrote? :)
Quote from: BearLoverQuote from: DafatoneQuote from: pfibigerQuote from: DafatoneQuote from: BearLoverQuote from: adamwI should probably just shut up - but I'm not good at that.
I think Ben Syer and Topher are great guys. Neither will be the next coach. Casey Jones is one of my favorite people in hockey, and I think he's a great coach. However, he's only 4 years younger than Coach Schafer - and so it won't be him either.
I'd be curious to hear adamw's response to the CHN report that Syer is a finalist for the Princeton head coaching job. A few months ago adamw was suggesting Syer would not be the next head coach of Cornell. Why would Princeton be an option, but not Cornell?
To shove words into Adam's mouth, I took his comments to mean that there's a behind-the-scenes heir apparent to Schafer's job. But I'm reading a lot into it.
That's funny, I read exactly the opposite -- when Schafer does eventually retire, Cornell will be a plum job attracting nationwide candidates, and it won't just be "promote the assistant."
That makes sense, too.
But I don't think either of those interpretations makes too much sense.
There isn't anyone who would be a behind-the-scenes heir apparent that isn't Casey/Syer/Topher, unless it's Doug Derraugh, who would be dismissed as a candidate on the same grounds adamw applied to Casey (being only slightly younger than Schafer).
Moreover, while I think a nationwide coaching search is possible, the very strong trend among Cornell's successful athletics programs has been to promote from within (wrestling, lacrosse, basketball). adamw's statement that these people will "not be the next coach" was written in no uncertain terms. The only justification for adamw's level of certainty that would make sense in this context is that adamw has information that Syer would not want a head coaching job, or he simply isn't cut out to be a head coach. In light of the fact Syer is interviewing for the Princeton position, it appears adamw was wrong. But I'll let him explain his thinking on here.
There are an awful lot of ridiculous assumptions in there -- and then calling me "wrong" to boot. LOL. How is what Princeton thinks relevant to what Cornell thinks? Has Princeton been a national juggernaut at some point that I don't remember? What's each school's respective situation? What's each school's respective AD background/experience? Etc...
Quote from: adamwQuote from: BearLoverQuote from: DafatoneQuote from: pfibigerQuote from: DafatoneQuote from: BearLoverQuote from: adamwI should probably just shut up - but I'm not good at that.
I think Ben Syer and Topher are great guys. Neither will be the next coach. Casey Jones is one of my favorite people in hockey, and I think he's a great coach. However, he's only 4 years younger than Coach Schafer - and so it won't be him either.
I'd be curious to hear adamw's response to the CHN report that Syer is a finalist for the Princeton head coaching job. A few months ago adamw was suggesting Syer would not be the next head coach of Cornell. Why would Princeton be an option, but not Cornell?
To shove words into Adam's mouth, I took his comments to mean that there's a behind-the-scenes heir apparent to Schafer's job. But I'm reading a lot into it.
That's funny, I read exactly the opposite -- when Schafer does eventually retire, Cornell will be a plum job attracting nationwide candidates, and it won't just be "promote the assistant."
That makes sense, too.
But I don't think either of those interpretations makes too much sense.
There isn't anyone who would be a behind-the-scenes heir apparent that isn't Casey/Syer/Topher, unless it's Doug Derraugh, who would be dismissed as a candidate on the same grounds adamw applied to Casey (being only slightly younger than Schafer).
Moreover, while I think a nationwide coaching search is possible, the very strong trend among Cornell's successful athletics programs has been to promote from within (wrestling, lacrosse, basketball). adamw's statement that these people will "not be the next coach" was written in no uncertain terms. The only justification for adamw's level of certainty that would make sense in this context is that adamw has information that Syer would not want a head coaching job, or he simply isn't cut out to be a head coach. In light of the fact Syer is interviewing for the Princeton position, it appears adamw was wrong. But I'll let him explain his thinking on here.
There are an awful lot of ridiculous assumptions in there -- and then calling me "wrong" to boot. LOL. How is what Princeton thinks relevant to what Cornell thinks? Has Princeton been a national juggernaut at some point that I don't remember? What's each school's respective situation? What's each school's respective AD background/experience? Etc...
To be fair, we're only a few years from 2028, when Princeton will again rise from its slumber before going back to bed for ten more seasons.
Quote from: DafatoneTo be fair, we're only a few years from 2028, when Princeton will again rise from its slumber before going back to bed for ten more seasons.
+1
Quote from: DafatoneTo be fair, we're only a few years from 2028, when Princeton will again rise from its slumber before going back to bed for ten more seasons.
ah yes, the famous "brood x"
Quote from: Al DeFlorioWho was promoted from within and successful in basketball?
we all have high hopes for jaques.
oops
Quote from: Al DeFlorioQuote from: BearLoverQuote from: DafatoneQuote from: pfibigerQuote from: DafatoneQuote from: BearLoverQuote from: adamwI should probably just shut up - but I'm not good at that.
I think Ben Syer and Topher are great guys. Neither will be the next coach. Casey Jones is one of my favorite people in hockey, and I think he's a great coach. However, he's only 4 years younger than Coach Schafer - and so it won't be him either.
I'd be curious to hear adamw's response to the CHN report that Syer is a finalist for the Princeton head coaching job. A few months ago adamw was suggesting Syer would not be the next head coach of Cornell. Why would Princeton be an option, but not Cornell?
To shove words into Adam's mouth, I took his comments to mean that there's a behind-the-scenes heir apparent to Schafer's job. But I'm reading a lot into it.
That's funny, I read exactly the opposite -- when Schafer does eventually retire, Cornell will be a plum job attracting nationwide candidates, and it won't just be "promote the assistant."
That makes sense, too.
But I don't think either of those interpretations makes too much sense.
There isn't anyone who would be a behind-the-scenes heir apparent that isn't Casey/Syer/Topher, unless it's Doug Derraugh, who would be dismissed as a candidate on the same grounds adamw applied to Casey (being only slightly younger than Schafer).
Moreover, while I think a nationwide coaching search is possible, the very strong trend among Cornell's successful athletics programs has been to promote from within (wrestling, lacrosse, basketball). adamw's statement that these people will "not be the next coach" was written in no uncertain terms. The only justification for adamw's level of certainty that would make sense in this context is that adamw has information that Syer would not want a head coaching job, or he simply isn't cut out to be a head coach. In light of the fact Syer is interviewing for the Princeton position, it appears adamw was wrong. But I'll let him explain his thinking on here.
Who was promoted from within and successful in basketball?
My point was about promoting from within based on past program success. I wasn't commenting on how successful or unsuccessful such internal hire would ultimately go on to be. So in terms of basketball, I am referring to Jon Jaques.
Quote from: adamwQuote from: BearLoverQuote from: DafatoneQuote from: pfibigerQuote from: DafatoneQuote from: BearLoverQuote from: adamwI should probably just shut up - but I'm not good at that.
I think Ben Syer and Topher are great guys. Neither will be the next coach. Casey Jones is one of my favorite people in hockey, and I think he's a great coach. However, he's only 4 years younger than Coach Schafer - and so it won't be him either.
I'd be curious to hear adamw's response to the CHN report that Syer is a finalist for the Princeton head coaching job. A few months ago adamw was suggesting Syer would not be the next head coach of Cornell. Why would Princeton be an option, but not Cornell?
To shove words into Adam's mouth, I took his comments to mean that there's a behind-the-scenes heir apparent to Schafer's job. But I'm reading a lot into it.
That's funny, I read exactly the opposite -- when Schafer does eventually retire, Cornell will be a plum job attracting nationwide candidates, and it won't just be "promote the assistant."
That makes sense, too.
But I don't think either of those interpretations makes too much sense.
There isn't anyone who would be a behind-the-scenes heir apparent that isn't Casey/Syer/Topher, unless it's Doug Derraugh, who would be dismissed as a candidate on the same grounds adamw applied to Casey (being only slightly younger than Schafer).
Moreover, while I think a nationwide coaching search is possible, the very strong trend among Cornell's successful athletics programs has been to promote from within (wrestling, lacrosse, basketball). adamw's statement that these people will "not be the next coach" was written in no uncertain terms. The only justification for adamw's level of certainty that would make sense in this context is that adamw has information that Syer would not want a head coaching job, or he simply isn't cut out to be a head coach. In light of the fact Syer is interviewing for the Princeton position, it appears adamw was wrong. But I'll let him explain his thinking on here.
There are an awful lot of ridiculous assumptions in there -- and then calling me "wrong" to boot. LOL. How is what Princeton thinks relevant to what Cornell thinks? Has Princeton been a national juggernaut at some point that I don't remember? What's each school's respective situation? What's each school's respective AD background/experience? Etc...
TBH, my guess is that your conclusion was based on faulty information or faulty assumptions, because you posted a pretty definitive statement of "X, Y, and Z won't be Cornell's next head coach" and didn't offer any justification, and at this point I can't really understand what this justification could be. I'm not sure if you're being tight-lipped about it because you're unable to reveal something you were told in confidence, or if it's something else.
The way I look at it is:
—Cornell hockey is currently in the midst of an extremely successful period
—Syer has been associate coach throughout this period and for over a decade total
—Syer coaches the defense, which is excellent every season. He is Cornell's lead recruiter, and recruiting has seemingly been quite good
—Cornell athletics has a history of promoting from within with respect to its most successful programs (including, recently, wrestling, lacrosse, and basketball)
—Syer is clearly willing to be head coach, or else he would not be interviewing at Princeton
—Princeton, which obviously does not have Cornell's hockey pedigree but which has deep pockets and is willing to spend on athletics, and which is another Ivy (i.e. similarly situated to Cornell in terms of academic/admissions/transfer requirements) clearly thinks highly of him, if he is a "finalist" or "frontrunner" or whatever the article originally said
I take all those things together to suggest there would be a high likelihood that Syer ends up Cornell's next head coach. No, not above 50%, but much higher than the likelihood of any other individual becoming the next head coach.
I don't really see why I should think otherwise, but if you would like to explain why I'm very willing to be wrong.
Quote from: BearLoverTBH, my guess is that your conclusion was based on faulty information or faulty assumptions, because you posted a pretty definitive statement of "X, Y, and Z won't be Cornell's next head coach" and didn't offer any justification, and at this point I can't really understand what this justification could be. I'm not sure if you're being tight-lipped about it because you're unable to reveal something you were told in confidence, or if it's something else.
you really do seem to be answering your own question here but because of an inexplicable underlying hostility or obtuseness didn't notice and kept writing
Quote from: ugarteQuote from: BearLoverTBH, my guess is that your conclusion was based on faulty information or faulty assumptions, because you posted a pretty definitive statement of "X, Y, and Z won't be Cornell's next head coach" and didn't offer any justification, and at this point I can't really understand what this justification could be. I'm not sure if you're being tight-lipped about it because you're unable to reveal something you were told in confidence, or if it's something else.
you really do seem to be answering your own question here but because of an inexplicable underlying hostility or obtuseness didn't notice and kept writing
I mean, I don't expect adamw to provide us with whatever he's heard. I just don't think whatever he's heard has been borne out as correct. Maybe I'm missing something though.
At least when I impolitely take issue with Adam it's a matter of his comprehensively-stated argument* and not one suggestive rhetorical off-the-cuff snippet.
Bear, stop making me look fair-minded by comparison.
* albeit one which is an apodictic inanity.
Obviously the heir apparent is Adam.
Quote from: BearLoverQuote from: ugarteQuote from: BearLoverTBH, my guess is that your conclusion was based on faulty information or faulty assumptions, because you posted a pretty definitive statement of "X, Y, and Z won't be Cornell's next head coach" and didn't offer any justification, and at this point I can't really understand what this justification could be. I'm not sure if you're being tight-lipped about it because you're unable to reveal something you were told in confidence, or if it's something else.
you really do seem to be answering your own question here but because of an inexplicable underlying hostility or obtuseness didn't notice and kept writing
I mean, I don't expect adamw to provide us with whatever he's heard. I just don't think whatever he's heard has been borne out as correct. Maybe I'm missing something though.
Based on what!? Schafer hasn't retired. You think it somehow proves that Syer may replace Schafer because ... he may take a different job? I have no idea what the future holds, but I also don't have adam's sources. You've got nothing! You're arguing based on nothing and convincing yourself that you're winning.
Quote from: ugarteQuote from: BearLoverQuote from: ugarteQuote from: BearLoverTBH, my guess is that your conclusion was based on faulty information or faulty assumptions, because you posted a pretty definitive statement of "X, Y, and Z won't be Cornell's next head coach" and didn't offer any justification, and at this point I can't really understand what this justification could be. I'm not sure if you're being tight-lipped about it because you're unable to reveal something you were told in confidence, or if it's something else.
you really do seem to be answering your own question here but because of an inexplicable underlying hostility or obtuseness didn't notice and kept writing
I mean, I don't expect adamw to provide us with whatever he's heard. I just don't think whatever he's heard has been borne out as correct. Maybe I'm missing something though.
Based on what!? Schafer hasn't retired. You think it somehow proves that Syer may replace Schafer because ... he may take a different job? I have no idea what the future holds, but I also don't have adam's sources. You've got nothing! You're arguing based on nothing and convincing yourself that you're winning.
We have no idea what the basis was for Adam's statement. He didn't give a reason. He didn't even say, "according to people I've talked to." It could have very well been a gut feeling rather than based on any sort of intel. Does Adam really have a well placed source who knows the inner workings of the Cornell hockey program/athletics department? I don't know, maybe? Even if he does, circumstances could have changed since Adam heard what he heard. There are lots of reasons Adam could be wrong. Given all the publicly available signs suggest Syer could be the next Cornell coach, and given Adam hasn't given us any explanation for what he said, I believe what he said could be wrong.
I'm not trying to win anything. I really was just hoping for more information. I think it was pretty telling that three posters on here had wildly different interpretations of Adam's initial post.
There is literally no information that indicates Syer might be the next Cornell head coach. That Syer is interviewing elsewhere when Schafer sometimes suggests that he may be ready to retire soon indicates, if anything, the opposite. You aren't getting more information because adam has done everything but send you a letter with a wax seal that says "i heard this off the record and i'm not telling you my source."
wrong thread sorry. lol
Quote from: ugarteThere is literally no information that indicates Syer might be the next Cornell head coach. That Syer is interviewing elsewhere when Schafer sometimes suggests that he may be ready to retire soon indicates, if anything, the opposite. You aren't getting more information because adam has done everything but send you a letter with a wax seal that says "i heard this off the record and i'm not telling you my source."
My rule for internet forum posting is to assume people are talking out of their ass unless I'm give a reason to assume otherwise. Is "editor of one of the biggest college hockey news websites" enough of a reason to disregard all the publicly available information that I consider to be pointing in the opposite direction? Maybe. Somebody bookmark this thread and we'll return to it when Schafer retires.
Quote from: BearLoverQuote from: ugarteThere is literally no information that indicates Syer might be the next Cornell head coach. That Syer is interviewing elsewhere when Schafer sometimes suggests that he may be ready to retire soon indicates, if anything, the opposite. You aren't getting more information because adam has done everything but send you a letter with a wax seal that says "i heard this off the record and i'm not telling you my source."
My rule for internet forum posting is to assume people are talking out of their ass unless I'm give a reason to assume otherwise. Is "editor of one of the biggest college hockey news websites" enough of a reason to disregard all the publicly available information that I consider to be pointing in the opposite direction? Maybe. Somebody bookmark this thread and we'll return to it when Schafer retires.
I believe your problem, clearly, is that you believe "publicly available information" points in the other direction -- when it clearly does nothing of the sort. That you believe it does, is invented in your head. But I think Ben Syer is a great dude, so I really have no interest in going on and on about any of this. It's just very weird that you think what I said has been "borne out as incorrect" - and you're using ... what? exactly as evidence? very bizarre.
Quote from: TrotskyAt least when I impolitely take issue with Adam it's a matter of his comprehensively-stated argument* and not one suggestive rhetorical off-the-cuff snippet.
Bear, stop making me look fair-minded by comparison.
* albeit one which is an apodictic inanity.
I feel like I was just insulted - but Trotsky is using Ivy League words, and I only went that other place in town.
Quote from: adamwQuote from: BearLoverQuote from: ugarteThere is literally no information that indicates Syer might be the next Cornell head coach. That Syer is interviewing elsewhere when Schafer sometimes suggests that he may be ready to retire soon indicates, if anything, the opposite. You aren't getting more information because adam has done everything but send you a letter with a wax seal that says "i heard this off the record and i'm not telling you my source."
My rule for internet forum posting is to assume people are talking out of their ass unless I'm give a reason to assume otherwise. Is "editor of one of the biggest college hockey news websites" enough of a reason to disregard all the publicly available information that I consider to be pointing in the opposite direction? Maybe. Somebody bookmark this thread and we'll return to it when Schafer retires.
I believe your problem, clearly, is that you believe "publicly available information" points in the other direction -- when it clearly does nothing of the sort. That you believe it does, is invented in your head. But I think Ben Syer is a great dude, so I really have no interest in going on and on about any of this. It's just very weird that you think what I said has been "borne out as incorrect" - and you're using ... what? exactly as evidence? very bizarre.
By "publicly available information" I mean all the stuff I previously said (been associate head coach for long successful period, coaches the defense, leads recruiting, wants to be a head coach, Cornell often hires from within, wife works for the university, etc.). I'm going to drop this point now. I hope he doesn't get hired by Princeton. I still believe there is a good chance he is our next head coach.
Quote from: adamwQuote from: TrotskyAt least when I impolitely take issue with Adam it's a matter of his comprehensively-stated argument* and not one suggestive rhetorical off-the-cuff snippet.
Bear, stop making me look fair-minded by comparison.
* albeit one which is an apodictic inanity.
I feel like I was just insulted - but Trotsky is using Ivy League words, and I only went that other place in town.
TC3-South Hill is nothing to be ashamed of, Adam.
Quote from: BearLoverQuote from: adamwQuote from: BearLoverQuote from: ugarteThere is literally no information that indicates Syer might be the next Cornell head coach. That Syer is interviewing elsewhere when Schafer sometimes suggests that he may be ready to retire soon indicates, if anything, the opposite. You aren't getting more information because adam has done everything but send you a letter with a wax seal that says "i heard this off the record and i'm not telling you my source."
My rule for internet forum posting is to assume people are talking out of their ass unless I'm give a reason to assume otherwise. Is "editor of one of the biggest college hockey news websites" enough of a reason to disregard all the publicly available information that I consider to be pointing in the opposite direction? Maybe. Somebody bookmark this thread and we'll return to it when Schafer retires.
I believe your problem, clearly, is that you believe "publicly available information" points in the other direction -- when it clearly does nothing of the sort. That you believe it does, is invented in your head. But I think Ben Syer is a great dude, so I really have no interest in going on and on about any of this. It's just very weird that you think what I said has been "borne out as incorrect" - and you're using ... what? exactly as evidence? very bizarre.
By "publicly available information" I mean all the stuff I previously said (been associate head coach for long successful period, coaches the defense, leads recruiting, wants to be a head coach, Cornell often hires from within, wife works for the university, etc.). I'm going to drop this point now. I hope he doesn't get hired by Princeton. I still believe there is a good chance he is our next head coach.
All of your "publicly available information" led you to insist Cornell would be no better than 20th in the Pairwise this year. ::whistle::
In this opinion column (https://dailyfreepress.com/2024/04/22/op-ed-bu-hockeys-reputation-alone-isnt-enough-to-sustain-a-community/) in the BU student newspaper, the writer laments the lack of support from the student body for the school's hockey program.
"The support the team receives from the student body and BU community does not meet the expectations one would expect from such a high-caliber program."
Our son got paid by BU to work the penalty box and I don't think there was a huge amount of competition for the job. You can't yell or cheer but you have one hell of a view. I think at Lynah you could have charity bidding war for the right to work it.
(He went there for the hotel school. Got recruited by an ex-Cornell hotel prof who'd been a Hobart lacrosse guy early 1970s. In the era when the Cornell side of the sideline got pelted with beer bottles in 1973 or 1974.)
We all missed this (https://www.uscho.com/2024/05/08/quinnipiac-defenseman-legault-leaves-bobcats-after-two-seasons-inks-nhl-deal-with-hurricanes/) 2 weeks ago:
QuoteThe NHL's Carolina Hurricanes have announced that the team has signed Quinnipiac sophomore defenseman Charles-Alexis Legault to a three-year, entry-level contract.
Good. Fuck them.
Quote from: TrotskyWe all missed this (https://www.uscho.com/2024/05/08/quinnipiac-defenseman-legault-leaves-bobcats-after-two-seasons-inks-nhl-deal-with-hurricanes/) 2 weeks ago:
QuoteThe NHL's Carolina Hurricanes have announced that the team has signed Quinnipiac sophomore defenseman Charles-Alexis Legault to a three-year, entry-level contract.
Good. Fuck them.
Hey, in other Quinnipiac news: This month is the 10th anniversary of the escapade of a Quinnipiac student who called in a bomb threat on graduation day in hopes of masking from her parents that she had used all the senior-year tuition and housing money tranferred from her parents to party, thus she would not be graduating, and figured if she called in a bomb threat, no graduation ceremony, parents wouldn't know. She called in the bomb threat from her own cellphone.
College Student Calls In Bomb Threat to Graduation So Parents Wouldn't Discover She Dropped Out (https://time.com/104765/quinnipiac-university-graduation-bomb-threat/)
Read it and weep, Greg: https://www.wcvb.com/article/northeastern-university-plans-to-replace-historic-matthews-arena-former-home-of-bruins-celtics/60950106
Northeastern's Matthews Arena is 114 years old, seats 4666.
The most inclusive story is the Boston Globe:
Quote from: Emily Spatz, boston.com[A] letter [to the Boston Planning and Development Agency], sent by the university's Vice President of Planning, Real Estate, and Facilities Kathy Spiegelman to the BPDA, said Matthews would be replaced by a 290,000 square foot facility for Northeastern's sporting events. Matthews is the world's oldest multi-purpose athletic building and was purchased by Northeastern in 1979, the school's website reads.
If approved, the new facility would include an arena, a field house with multi-purpose turf, basketball courts, recreational courts, and "other accessory uses" to support Northeastern's athletic needs, according to the letter.
"The Project will also include site improvements, including new street trees, pedestrian improvements, and public realm improvements," Spiegelman wrote.
The author must be a generalist. Her story three days earlier:
"Boston news anchor appears to swallow a fly — or an eyelash — live on air"
And Appleton only am escaped alone to tell thee.
Quote from: TrotskyAnd Appleton only am escaped alone to tell thee.
Do they not have a historic preservation board in Boston? Or is the whole city so historic that they can tear anything down?
Quote from: jtwcornell91Quote from: TrotskyAnd Appleton only am escaped alone to tell thee.
Do they not have a historic preservation board in Boston? Or is the whole city so historic that they can tear anything down?
The rule in Boston is you can bulldoze anything historically black, while for whites you must meticulously document somebody rich wants the land.
Today in the North Country (https://www.poughkeepsiejournal.com/story/news/2024/06/11/flor-lopez-dies-after-being-attacked-by-cow-at-upstate-ny-farm-flack-farms/74054830007/)
Quote from: TrotskyToday in the North Country (https://www.poughkeepsiejournal.com/story/news/2024/06/11/flor-lopez-dies-after-being-attacked-by-cow-at-upstate-ny-farm-flack-farms/74054830007/)
Geez, that's a bizarre tragedy. Sad for the young woman and her family.
Quote from: Al DeFlorioRead it and weep, Greg: https://www.wcvb.com/article/northeastern-university-plans-to-replace-historic-matthews-arena-former-home-of-bruins-celtics/60950106
Some interesting memories from the old Boston Arena. The 1966 ECAC Tournament was played there and we lost in the championship. Most interesting parts of that game were that although we finished second, lost to Clarkson 6-2 in finals, we were ineligible for the NCAAs. Also we didn't have our band there. So after Brown lost their game, the Brown band came to play for us.
The next year might have been the most memorable game played at the Boston Arena. We played in the Boston Christmas Tournament at the Arena. It was a three night, three game tournament, !2/28, 29 & 30. We won the first two and played BU in the third game. It was tied after 2 OTs, short memory but I think each were 20 minutes, and after having played what amounted to almost 4 games in 3 nights, both coaches agreed to call it a tie and quit. That's one reason why some of us long for going back to traditional OTs. Imagine if that game ended in a 5 min OT and then a shootout. Would anyone remember it?
Memorable quote from the Boston Globe, "It went past midnight, the trolley closed down, yet nobody left."
The Arena had an unusual quirk. It had an egg shaped ice and boards behind the nets. Rather than two corners, it was basically a continuously curved boards going from one side boards to the other side boards. Made for some interesting play.
surprised this hasn't been posted yet.
Clarkson Turns to Alum J.F. Houle as Next Coach (https://www.collegehockeynews.com/news/2024/06/21_Clarkson-Turns-to-Alum-J.php)
Seems like a solid hire for Clarkson as they get an alum who's been successful (and had just been extended) as HC with Montreal's AHL affiliate.
Also probably good for the ECAC overall to land coaches thatve reached that level.
Makes me wonder whether Cam Abbott might get a future sniff with us after Casey given he just landed an AHL HC gig himself.
Quote from: abmarkssurprised this hasn't been posted yet.
Clarkson Turns to Alum J.F. Houle as Next Coach (https://www.collegehockeynews.com/news/2024/06/21_Clarkson-Turns-to-Alum-J.php)
Seems like a solid hire for Clarkson as they get an alum who's been successful (and had just been extended) as HC with Montreal's AHL affiliate.
Also probably good for the ECAC overall to land coaches thatve reached that level.
Makes me wonder whether Cam Abbott might get a future sniff with us after Casey given he just landed an AHL HC gig himself.
A few days ago I posted that CJ's sudden and late departure totally screws Clarkson. I was entirely wrong. In the matter of a week Clarkson managed to replace, and maybe even upgrade, their coach.
Makes you wonder whether Clarkson is really such a difficult place to win at, given they managed to attract a successful AHL coach.
Quote from: BearLoverQuote from: abmarkssurprised this hasn't been posted yet.
Clarkson Turns to Alum J.F. Houle as Next Coach (https://www.collegehockeynews.com/news/2024/06/21_Clarkson-Turns-to-Alum-J.php)
Seems like a solid hire for Clarkson as they get an alum who's been successful (and had just been extended) as HC with Montreal's AHL affiliate.
Also probably good for the ECAC overall to land coaches thatve reached that level.
Makes me wonder whether Cam Abbott might get a future sniff with us after Casey given he just landed an AHL HC gig himself.
A few days ago I posted that CJ's sudden and late departure totally screws Clarkson. I was entirely wrong. In the matter of a week Clarkson managed to replace, and maybe even upgrade, their coach.
Makes you wonder whether Clarkson is really such a difficult place to win at, given they managed to attract a successful AHL coach.
If that AHL coach weren't a Clarkson alumnus, I'd make the same inference. (Actually, I already agree that Clarkson is a program that is well-positioned to succeed the majority of the time, But I have my own pro-ECAC biases.)
I think Casey Jones and Jean-Francois Houle's decisions to return to their alma maters reveal a lot about how strong former players' emotional ties are to their college programs. Heck, I was a terrible skater and a subpar intramural player, yet I have similar nostalgia and emotional bonds to Cornell hockey. This phenomenon is a significant part of what makes NCAA hockey great.
Quote from: cbuckserQuote from: BearLoverQuote from: abmarkssurprised this hasn't been posted yet.
Clarkson Turns to Alum J.F. Houle as Next Coach (https://www.collegehockeynews.com/news/2024/06/21_Clarkson-Turns-to-Alum-J.php)
Seems like a solid hire for Clarkson as they get an alum who's been successful (and had just been extended) as HC with Montreal's AHL affiliate.
Also probably good for the ECAC overall to land coaches thatve reached that level.
Makes me wonder whether Cam Abbott might get a future sniff with us after Casey given he just landed an AHL HC gig himself.
A few days ago I posted that CJ's sudden and late departure totally screws Clarkson. I was entirely wrong. In the matter of a week Clarkson managed to replace, and maybe even upgrade, their coach.
Makes you wonder whether Clarkson is really such a difficult place to win at, given they managed to attract a successful AHL coach.
If that AHL coach weren't a Clarkson alumnus, I'd make the same inference. (Actually, I already agree that Clarkson is a program that is well-positioned to succeed the majority of the time, But I have my own pro-ECAC biases.)
I think Casey Jones and Jean-Francois Houle's decisions to return to their alma maters reveal a lot about how strong former players' emotional ties are to their college programs. Heck, I was a terrible skater and a subpar intramural player, yet I have similar nostalgia and emotional bonds to Cornell hockey. This phenomenon is a significant part of what makes NCAA hockey great.
I basically agree with you—but if Clarkson is already well-positioned to succeed the majority of the time, what indicates Casey is an above-average coach? In his 12 seasons as head coach, only twice did Clarkson outperform Cornell in the Pairwise. Last year, they finished 37th. The year prior, 32nd.
I don't believe the new NCAA rules are the reason they've regressed. Clarkson did lose a lot of players to the transfer portal, but they also brought in a lot of transfers. And they had several key contributors return for a fifth year (something not allowed for Cornell).
It's hard to make much out of the advanced stats we do have for college hockey, given they don't account for SOS (and Clarkson's schedule has been relatively weak), but Clarkson's CORSI suggests they are a middle-of-the-pack team the past few years—in line with their finish in the PWR. Their save percentage last season was quite bad, but their save percentage the prior year was average. And their shooting percentage was above average each of the past two years. Which is to say, there aren't any signs they got particularly unlucky.
In 2022-23, Clarkson had 6 draft picks on their roster to Cornell's 2. Last year, Clarkson had 7 draft picks to Cornell's 6. So it doesn't look like Cornell has much, if any, of a talent advantage. Clarkson recently renovated its facilities (mentioned in a recent CHN article) and just shelled out a bunch of money for Casey's replacement. So how big is the resource disparity, really?
Two seasons is a small sample, though. And Clarkson had been on a nice run up until that point. It would be interesting to be able to do a deeper dive on what happened the past two years, if only we had access to the stats and information.
Casey is clearly a logical choice to take over Cornell's hockey program. But I would not call it a slam dunk. I am hopeful that Casey can dip into whatever secret sauce Schafer found, because it seems there was some secret sauce responsible for Cornell's comparative success—something beyond the numbers.
Quote from: BearLoverCasey is clearly a logical choice to take over Cornell's hockey program. But I would not call it a slam dunk. I am hopeful that Casey can dip into whatever secret sauce Schafer found, because it seems there was some secret sauce responsible for Cornell's comparative success—something beyond the numbers.
I think culture and reputation are the key ingredients, and I expect Casey will maintain both. Systems and identity should remain mostly intact, too.
Quote from: cbuckserQuote from: BearLoverCasey is clearly a logical choice to take over Cornell's hockey program. But I would not call it a slam dunk. I am hopeful that Casey can dip into whatever secret sauce Schafer found, because it seems there was some secret sauce responsible for Cornell's comparative success—something beyond the numbers.
I think culture and reputation are the key ingredients, and I expect Casey will maintain both. Systems and identity should remain mostly intact, too.
I'd add that Schafer was part of the (perhaps the entire) search committee. Mike's passion for Cornell hockey is no doubt just as strong in looking for his successor as it is in his playing and coaching throughout his affiliation with Cornell. And I trust Mike's judgement about how good other coaches are. So, I am optimistic about Casey as our next head coach.
In Mike We Trust.
At another school (https://www.uscho.com/2024/06/24/notre-dame-announces-24-25-season-will-be-jacksons-last-behind-bench-current-assistant-former-irish-player-sheahan-to-take-over-with-25-26-season/), an alum is hired to be the HC in waiting, replacing the current HC after the 2024-5 season.
Also see here (https://www.collegehockeynews.com/news/2024/06/24_Two-Time-Champ-Jeff-Jackson.php), where the comparison is more in depth.
Quote from: SwampyAt another school (https://www.uscho.com/2024/06/24/notre-dame-announces-24-25-season-will-be-jacksons-last-behind-bench-current-assistant-former-irish-player-sheahan-to-take-over-with-25-26-season/), an alum is hired to be the HC in waiting, replacing the current HC after the 2024-5 season.
Also see here (https://www.collegehockeynews.com/news/2024/06/24_Two-Time-Champ-Jeff-Jackson.php), where the comparison is more in depth.
If you had to fabricate a name of a generic Notre Dame male athlete for your improv class, nothing you could conjure up would be as spot-on as "Brock Sheahan."
Have you ever wondered if it's possible to hate a coaching staff more?
https://twitter.com/MarkDivver/status/1807768879453884881
Harvard makes what looks to be a solid hire
https://www.uscho.com/2024/08/07/former-hobey-baker-winner-boston-university-all-american-gilroy-hired-as-new-assistant-coach-with-harvard-mens-hockey-team/
(Hobey winner Matt Gilroy who played at BU, hired as assistant coach)
Quote from: abmarksHarvard makes what looks to be a solid hire
https://www.uscho.com/2024/08/07/former-hobey-baker-winner-boston-university-all-american-gilroy-hired-as-new-assistant-coach-with-harvard-mens-hockey-team/
(Hobey winner Matt Gilroy who played at BU, hired as assistant coach)
That sucks. Would love to see deeper NTDP ties at Cornell. Cornell's next hire appears to be solid as well and, hopefully, opens up Minnesota for the men.
Quote from: ithacatQuote from: abmarksHarvard makes what looks to be a solid hire
https://www.uscho.com/2024/08/07/former-hobey-baker-winner-boston-university-all-american-gilroy-hired-as-new-assistant-coach-with-harvard-mens-hockey-team/
(Hobey winner Matt Gilroy who played at BU, hired as assistant coach)
That sucks. Would love to see deeper NTDP ties at Cornell. Cornell's next hire appears to be solid as well and, hopefully, opens up Minnesota for the men.
I hadn't heard about a new assistant (or even that Russell had left), and Cornell hasn't announced anything, but here is an article about the new coach from a Minnesota paper: https://www.mankatofreepress.com/sports/local_sports/north-mankato-native-leivermann-lands-job-as-assistant-coach-at-cornell/article_2c86bad6-542b-11ef-b030-7302ff6847c8.amp.html
Quote from: WederQuote from: ithacatQuote from: abmarksHarvard makes what looks to be a solid hire
https://www.uscho.com/2024/08/07/former-hobey-baker-winner-boston-university-all-american-gilroy-hired-as-new-assistant-coach-with-harvard-mens-hockey-team/
(Hobey winner Matt Gilroy who played at BU, hired as assistant coach)
That sucks. Would love to see deeper NTDP ties at Cornell. Cornell's next hire appears to be solid as well and, hopefully, opens up Minnesota for the men.
I hadn't heard about a new assistant (or even that Russell had left), and Cornell hasn't announced anything, but here is an article about the new coach from a Minnesota paper: https://www.mankatofreepress.com/sports/local_sports/north-mankato-native-leivermann-lands-job-as-assistant-coach-at-cornell/article_2c86bad6-542b-11ef-b030-7302ff6847c8.amp.html
Thanks for the link. I particularly like this part:
Quote from: Mankato Free PressLeivermann acknowledged that he does have some work to do in terms of learning NCAA compliance rules, the NIL world and other stuff unique to the college game.
I hope Casey has warned him about the Ivy League's version of rules for the college game. Also, while it would be great to have closer ties to the NTDP, having closer ties with the USHL ain't exactly chopped liver.
Two quotes stood out to me. This was clearly Casey's hire.
QuoteJones has spent the last 13 years as the head coach at Clarkson, and Leivermann has discussed joining Jones' staff there the past two offseasons. When the succession plan at Cornell was finalized, Jones reached out to Leivermann
.
QuoteYou kind of got two head coaches at the helm there. Just my ability to sit back and learn there this year will be tremendous," Leivermann said. "Casey was the one kind of spearheading the hire. Just hoping to do a good job this year and to stay on staff for the future and continue to work under Casey."
Quote from: SwampyI hope Casey has warned him about the Ivy League's version of rules for the college game. Also, while it would be great to have closer ties to the NTDP, having closer ties with the USHL ain't exactly chopped liver.
Not at all...add in deeper ties with Minnesota too. Maybe this gives Cornell a chance with Gavin Kor. A former Shattuck player who was with Fargo last season. Between the WHL, the Minnesota schools, and other Big-10ish schools, he's probably a long shot. Maybe I just like the name.
In case anyone wonders where, Ben Russell went to Northern Michigan: https://nmuwildcats.com/news/2024/7/26/ben-russell-named-assistant-hockey-coach.aspx
I have to wonder what all this turnover means to the team next season. That is a lot of transition in one season. How will this change the organization of the defense? We've lost two leadership coaches there. \\
What specialties does this new coach bring to the team? Is he here to teach or learn?
I've spoken to some of the team members and they all say that they are looking forward to the coaching changes and what they mean for the future of the program
Casey has to pick his own leadership, I guess. Best of luck to Ben Russell.
Quote from: pfibigerHave you ever wondered if it's possible to hate a coaching staff more?
https://twitter.com/MarkDivver/status/1807768879453884881
He's listed on the QU staff directory now:
https://www.qu.edu/faculty-and-staff/rick-bennett2/
It's probably time to move on to 2024-25, but that takes a little more effort than replying to an existing thread.
This year's Winter Classic is expanding to include not just Blackhawks vs. Blues at Wrigley Field on December 31, but also Notre Dame men vs. Penn State men and Michigan vs the Ohio State men on January 3, followed by Wisconsin men vs Michigan State men and Wisconsin women vs. the Ohio State women on January 4. https://chicago.suntimes.com/blackhawks/2024/08/15/blackhawks-cubs-nhl-winter-classic-wrigley-field-big-ten-hockey-wisconson-notre-dame?utm_source=Newsletter_Daily-Rundown-Member&utm_medium=WBEZEmail&utm_campaign=Daily_Newsletter_Daily-Rundown_Sponsored_20240815&utm_content=8/15/2024&DE=WBEZEmail
Mission Creep.
Holiday Tournament at Schoellkopf!
wait, we use turf pellets..
probably gonna be a protest.
Quote from: The RancorHoliday Tournament at Schoellkopf!
Beebe. Eddie Shore.
Quote from: WederQuote from: ithacatQuote from: abmarksHarvard makes what looks to be a solid hire
https://www.uscho.com/2024/08/07/former-hobey-baker-winner-boston-university-all-american-gilroy-hired-as-new-assistant-coach-with-harvard-mens-hockey-team/
(Hobey winner Matt Gilroy who played at BU, hired as assistant coach)
That sucks. Would love to see deeper NTDP ties at Cornell. Cornell's next hire appears to be solid as well and, hopefully, opens up Minnesota for the men.
I hadn't heard about a new assistant (or even that Russell had left), and Cornell hasn't announced anything, but here is an article about the new coach from a Minnesota paper: https://www.mankatofreepress.com/sports/local_sports/north-mankato-native-leivermann-lands-job-as-assistant-coach-at-cornell/article_2c86bad6-542b-11ef-b030-7302ff6847c8.amp.html
Now Corey Leivermann is announced by Cornell. https://cornellbigred.com/news/2024/8/28/mens-ice-hockey-leivermann-joins-coaching-staff.aspx
Quote from: David HardingQuote from: WederQuote from: ithacatQuote from: abmarksHarvard makes what looks to be a solid hire
https://www.uscho.com/2024/08/07/former-hobey-baker-winner-boston-university-all-american-gilroy-hired-as-new-assistant-coach-with-harvard-mens-hockey-team/
(Hobey winner Matt Gilroy who played at BU, hired as assistant coach)
That sucks. Would love to see deeper NTDP ties at Cornell. Cornell's next hire appears to be solid as well and, hopefully, opens up Minnesota for the men.
I hadn't heard about a new assistant (or even that Russell had left), and Cornell hasn't announced anything, but here is an article about the new coach from a Minnesota paper: https://www.mankatofreepress.com/sports/local_sports/north-mankato-native-leivermann-lands-job-as-assistant-coach-at-cornell/article_2c86bad6-542b-11ef-b030-7302ff6847c8.amp.html
Now Corey Leivermann is announced by Cornell. https://cornellbigred.com/news/2024/8/28/mens-ice-hockey-leivermann-joins-coaching-staff.aspx
I'm already a fan since they mentioned his dog in the announcement.
https://www.reddit.com/r/doggrooming/comments/11agohx/had_3_bellas_in_a_row_today_please_stop_naming/
NHL star Johnny Gaudreau, formerly of BC passed away.
And his brother. Day before sister's wedding. Awful
More specifically, Gaudreau and his brother were struck by a car while riding bicycles at dusk Thursday evening in New Jersey. The driver was arrested and charged with suspicion (as of the day after) of being drunk.
https://www.cnn.com/2024/08/30/sport/johnny-gaudreau-nhl-player-death-spt-intl/index.html
Nice nickname:
Quote from: Cornell PRA mid-year transfer to Gustavus Adolphus, a Minnesota-based Division III institution, in 2012-13, Leivermann averaged a point per game over his 40 career games with the Gusties
Quote from: billhowardNice nickname:
Quote from: Cornell PRA mid-year transfer to Gustavus Adolphus, a Minnesota-based Division III institution, in 2012-13, Leivermann averaged a point per game over his 40 career games with the Gusties
Officially the team nickname is the Golden Gusties.
Sounds like a lot of hot air to me. ::bolt::
Quote from: Jeff Hopkins '82Quote from: billhowardNice nickname:
Quote from: Cornell PRA mid-year transfer to Gustavus Adolphus, a Minnesota-based Division III institution, in 2012-13, Leivermann averaged a point per game over his 40 career games with the Gusties
Officially the team nickname is the Golden Gusties.
Sounds like a lot of hot air to me. ::bolt::
I've long held that Albertus Magnus College should name their men's teams the Fat Alberts.
Quote from: RichHI've long held that Albertus Magnus College should name their men's teams the Fat Alberts.
If one must veer in that direction, make it Phat Alberts
Upgrades at Lynah East.
https://x.com/harvardcrimson/status/1833143325467259316
Plenty of upgrades at our Lynah as well - ran into some of the boys about town and it appears some have taken advantage of the summer to work out and it shows
RPI beat UMA 2-1 in OT in an exhibition game. GWG by John Beaton. RPI also won a shootout on a goal by freshman Felix Caron (RPI's first AeroE hockey player since fellow French Canadian Joe Juneau).
It won't count for Cornell's strength of schedule :-D
double post