ELynah Forum

General Category => Hockey => Topic started by: osorojo on September 08, 2022, 11:21:26 AM

Title: Athletic correctness
Post by: osorojo on September 08, 2022, 11:21:26 AM
I overheard this statement at an away game at Colgate in the mid-60's - between periods in a walkway leading to the dressing room between and beneath fans' bleachers. Cornell was clobbering Colgate. Colgate coach to Harkness: "Hey, ease up a little." Harkness: "Go **** yourself!" I miss Cornell winning hockey games and the lively spirit [versus dissertations] which accompanied these wins.
Title: Re: Athletic correctness
Post by: Beeeej on September 08, 2022, 11:34:59 AM
It's a cute anecdote, but I sure hope you're not suggesting that Cornell's more recent relative lack of national success is largely or even partly due to Schafer's unwillingness to tell Don Vaughan and his peers to go **** themselves.
Title: Re: Athletic correctness
Post by: Dafatone on September 08, 2022, 11:38:22 AM
Quote from: BeeeejIt's a cute anecdote, but I sure hope you're not suggesting that Cornell's more recent relative lack of national success is largely or even partly due to Schafer's unwillingness to tell Don Vaughan and his peers to go **** themselves.

We also don't know how many coaches Schafer is or isn't telling to go **** themselves.
Title: Re: Athletic correctness
Post by: George64 on September 08, 2022, 11:41:32 AM
Quote from: osorojoI overheard this statement at an away game at Colgate in the mid-60's - between periods in a walkway leading to the dressing room between and beneath fans' bleachers. Cornell was clobbering Colgate. Colgate coach to Harkness: "Hey, ease up a little." Harkness: "Go **** yourself!" I miss Cornell winning hockey games and the lively spirit [versus dissertations] which accompanied these wins.

Harkness at a freshman game, "Johnny [Hughes] why the **** don't you skate!"  It obviously had an impact, as he became one of the all-time greats.  RIP, Johnny.
.
Title: Re: Athletic correctness
Post by: osorojo on September 10, 2022, 11:34:40 AM
Intensity, not decorum, is the soul of sports.
Title: Re: Athletic correctness
Post by: Trotsky on September 10, 2022, 01:55:40 PM
Quote from: osorojoIntensity, not decorum, is the soul of sports.
"Everyone has an aesthetic until they get punched in the mouth."
Title: Re: Athletic correctness
Post by: jtwcornell91 on September 10, 2022, 09:10:27 PM
Quote from: Dafatone
Quote from: BeeeejIt's a cute anecdote, but I sure hope you're not suggesting that Cornell's more recent relative lack of national success is largely or even partly due to Schafer's unwillingness to tell Don Vaughan and his peers to go **** themselves.

We also don't know how many coaches Schafer is or isn't telling to go **** themselves.

Although I wouldn't expect Vaughan to make that list.
Title: Re: Athletic correctness
Post by: osorojo on September 13, 2022, 12:40:50 PM
I'm not promoting vulgarity - or blasphemy - only a winning spirit.
Title: Re: Athletic correctness
Post by: BearLover on September 13, 2022, 09:05:41 PM
Quote from: osorojoI'm not promoting vulgarity - or blasphemy - only a winning spirit.
What is your proof that the Cornell hockey program is lacking "intensity" and a "winning spirit"?
Title: Re: Athletic correctness
Post by: osorojo on September 14, 2022, 08:07:47 AM
"Promoting a winning spirit" is hardly denying such spirit exists. Quite the contrary. I began attending C.U. hockey games when the rink opened, watched C.U. battle Susquehanna, traveled to exotic venues like Princeton and Brown to attend games. Now I live over 1,000 miles from the nearest Cornell hockey game and seldom get to see a live game, That is the pitiful wisp of validity to your critique.
Title: Re: Athletic correctness
Post by: BearLover on September 14, 2022, 10:05:08 AM
Quote from: osorojoWhat on earth makes you suspect Cornell Hockey lacks a winning spirit? "Promoting a winning spirit" is hardly denying such spirit exists. Quite the contrary.
In your first post you said: "I miss Cornell winning hockey games and the lively spirit [versus dissertations] which accompanied these wins." Then you said you were "promoting a winning spirit," which implies a winning spirit is lacking.

So then what is your point exactly?
Title: Re: Athletic correctness
Post by: French Rage on September 15, 2022, 02:14:43 PM
Had osorojo ever had a point?
Title: Re: Athletic correctness
Post by: osorojo on September 19, 2022, 07:44:02 PM
I quickly tire of everyman attempts to parse causes for wins and losses - bag the dissertations on and dissections of wins and losses - even if you are/were a science or math major. You sure as hell weren't a student of logic or language... [e.g] Me: "I support free speech." You: "That implies free speech is lacking."
Title: Re: Athletic correctness
Post by: Trotsky on September 19, 2022, 08:10:31 PM
Quote from: osorojoI quickly tire

Not every race is for every runner.

Your incapacity isn't binding on others.
Title: Re: Athletic correctness
Post by: BearLover on September 19, 2022, 09:53:22 PM
Quote from: osorojoI quickly tire of everyman attempts to parse causes for wins and losses - bag the dissertations on and dissections of wins and losses - even if you are/were a science or math major. You sure as hell weren't a student of logic or language... [e.g] Me: "I support free speech." You: "That implies free speech is lacking."
You: "I miss free speech."
Me: "So you think there is an inadequate amount of free speech? If you long for a thing, it logically follows that you believe such thing is lacking."
You: "Clearly you were not a logic or language major."
Title: Re: Athletic correctness
Post by: osorojo on September 20, 2022, 09:36:24 AM
You proclaim "People who mention free speech [me] are against free speech." [See above] I concede the point. Your argument Trumps all objection.












you:
Title: Re: Athletic correctness
Post by: osorojo on September 20, 2022, 12:12:24 PM
What we have here is a generation gap, a big generation gap! During several years of the 1960's Cornell fans assumed Big Red Men's hockey would win the Ivy league, figured they would go to the D-1 hockey playoffs, and even complained when they did not win the D-1 national hockey championship. It's not like that any more. Today Cornell men's hockey fans are very sensitive to any statement which might possibly be construed as a criticism of the current hockey program. (See Above)
Title: Re: Athletic correctness
Post by: Trotsky on September 20, 2022, 09:43:07 PM
Quote from: osorojoWhat we have here is a generation gap, a big generation gap! During several years of the 1960's Cornell fans assumed Big Red Men's hockey would win the Ivy league, figured they would go to the D-1 hockey playoffs, and even complained when they did not win the D-1 national hockey championship. It's not like that any more. Today Cornell men's hockey fans are very sensitive to any statement which might possibly be construed as a criticism of the current hockey program. (See Above)
Dude, I have been following this team for 43 years and I have no idea what you are on about.

You're the only person here who likes to hear himself talk more than I.  That's not a good look, trust me.

Less is more.
Title: Re: Athletic correctness
Post by: RichH on September 20, 2022, 10:13:20 PM
Quote from: TrotskyDude, I have been following this team for 43 years and I have no idea what you are on about.

You're the only person here who likes to hear himself talk more than I.  That's not a good look, trust me.

Less is more.

It's clear to me: osorojo hates nerds. Nerds who analyze things like sports. Ruining their world.
Title: Re: Athletic correctness
Post by: Trotsky on September 20, 2022, 10:16:01 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PlKDQqKh03Y
Title: Re: Athletic correctness
Post by: Jeff Hopkins '82 on September 20, 2022, 10:20:56 PM
Quote from: Trotskyhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PlKDQqKh03Y

Great movie.  The whole concept ruined baseball, but it was a great movie.
Title: Re: Athletic correctness
Post by: Trotsky on September 20, 2022, 10:24:28 PM
I've heard it's an even better book (like The Big Short) but I have not partaken.
Title: Re: Athletic correctness
Post by: marty on September 21, 2022, 03:52:55 AM
Quote from: TrotskyI've heard it's an even better book (like The Big Short) but I have not partaken.

I'm not into stats and thought the book was fascinating and a well told tale.
Title: Re: Athletic correctness
Post by: nshapiro on September 21, 2022, 06:42:14 AM
Quote from: Jeff Hopkins '82
Quote from: Trotskyhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PlKDQqKh03Y

Great movie.  The whole concept ruined baseball, but it was a great movie.
What ruined baseball was the realization by (I think it was) Marlon Byrd that a singles hitter with a .300 avg is worth less than a .240 hitting slugger.  He changed his swing angle, started hitting homers, and got bigger contracts.  He became the role model for the modern baseball player.

In 1980, 11 players had over 100 strikeouts.  Today, over 150 players strike out 100 times in a season.

Now baseball is changing the rules to prevent shifts with 3 infielders on one side of the diamond, or deep on the outfield grass.  These shifts are only effective because upper-cutting players have less bat control and cannot adjust their swings to take advantage of the shift.  

Basically, the game has gone to hell, but I am a moron who used to love it, but still am addicted, even though I am constantly frustrated by lack of fundamentals, unproductive at-bats, and the near disappearance of 'baseball IQ'
Title: Re: Athletic correctness
Post by: Trotsky on September 21, 2022, 08:28:29 AM
Quote from: nshapiroBasically, the game has gone to hell, but I am a moron who used to love it, but still am addicted, even though I am constantly frustrated by lack of fundamentals, unproductive at-bats, and the near disappearance of 'baseball IQ'

I'm just happy Keith Hernandez has time to post here. B-]
Title: Re: Athletic correctness
Post by: French Rage on September 21, 2022, 08:40:30 AM
Quote from: marty
Quote from: TrotskyI've heard it's an even better book (like The Big Short) but I have not partaken.

I'm not into stats and thought the book was fascinating and a well told tale.

Pretty much anything by Michael Lewis kicks ass.  ("Flash Boys" is my personal favorite.)
Title: Re: Athletic correctness
Post by: jtwcornell91 on September 21, 2022, 09:14:06 AM
Quote from: nshapiro
Quote from: Jeff Hopkins '82
Quote from: Trotskyhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PlKDQqKh03Y

Great movie.  The whole concept ruined baseball, but it was a great movie.
What ruined baseball was the realization by (I think it was) Marlon Byrd that a singles hitter with a .300 avg is worth less than a .240 hitting slugger.  He changed his swing angle, started hitting homers, and got bigger contracts.  He became the role model for the modern baseball player.

If you ask me, walk-up music ruined baseball, but that's less fundamental.
Title: Re: Athletic correctness
Post by: George64 on September 21, 2022, 09:48:53 AM
Quote from: nshapiro
Quote from: Jeff Hopkins '82
Quote from: Trotskyhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PlKDQqKh03Y

Great movie.  The whole concept ruined baseball, but it was a great movie.
What ruined baseball was the realization by (I think it was) Marlon Byrd that a singles hitter with a .300 avg is worth less than a .240 hitting slugger.  He changed his swing angle, started hitting homers, and got bigger contracts.  He became the role model for the modern baseball player.

In 1980, 11 players had over 100 strikeouts.  Today, over 150 players strike out 100 times in a season.

Now baseball is changing the rules to prevent shifts with 3 infielders on one side of the diamond, or deep on the outfield grass.  These shifts are only effective because upper-cutting players have less bat control and cannot adjust their swings to take advantage of the shift.  

Basically, the game has gone to hell, but I am a moron who used to love it, but still am addicted, even though I am constantly frustrated by lack of fundamentals, unproductive at-bats, and the near disappearance of 'baseball IQ'

Aaron Judge hit his 60th home run last night.
.
Title: Re: Athletic correctness
Post by: Scersk '97 on September 21, 2022, 10:29:29 AM
Quote from: jtwcornell91If you ask me, walk-up music ruined baseball, but that's less fundamental.

All things have gone downhill since the invention of the amplifier.
Title: Re: Athletic correctness
Post by: Beeeej on September 21, 2022, 10:44:46 AM
Quote from: marty
Quote from: TrotskyI've heard it's an even better book (like The Big Short) but I have not partaken.

I'm not into stats and thought the book was fascinating and a well told tale.

Well, that tears it - I've been keeping it shelved for a while, but I'm bringing it with me to Germany for next week.
Title: Re: Athletic correctness
Post by: Dafatone on September 21, 2022, 02:14:17 PM
Baseball is fine. There's probably a combination of tweaks, like moving the mound back just a little (more contact) and making the ball a little more dead (weaker contact) that would result in more action.

But it's fine! Guys throw 95mph sliders. There's only so much you can do to increase balls in play.
Title: Re: Athletic correctness
Post by: Jeff Hopkins '82 on September 21, 2022, 09:19:48 PM
Quote from: DafatoneBaseball is fine. There's probably a combination of tweaks, like moving the mound back just a little (more contact) and making the ball a little more dead (weaker contact) that would result in more action.

But it's fine! Guys throw 95mph sliders. There's only so much you can do to increase balls in play.

The philosophy of "Homers or strikeouts."  That's ruined the game, too.
Title: Re: Athletic correctness
Post by: BearLover on September 21, 2022, 09:33:25 PM
Quote from: Jeff Hopkins '82
Quote from: DafatoneBaseball is fine. There's probably a combination of tweaks, like moving the mound back just a little (more contact) and making the ball a little more dead (weaker contact) that would result in more action.

But it's fine! Guys throw 95mph sliders. There's only so much you can do to increase balls in play.

The philosophy of "Homers or strikeouts."  That's ruined the game, too.
Are homers and strikeouts less exciting than singles and ground outs? Fewer stolen bases is no good, that's definitely true.
Title: Re: Athletic correctness
Post by: Chris H82 on September 22, 2022, 12:33:12 AM
Quote from: Beeeej
Quote from: marty
Quote from: TrotskyI've heard it's an even better book (like The Big Short) but I have not partaken.

I'm not into stats and thought the book was fascinating and a well told tale.

Well, that tears it - I've been keeping it shelved for a while, but I'm bringing it with me to Germany for next week.

If you've got room in your bag, also throw in "The Premonition  - a Pandemic Story", by Michael Lewis. I think it's his best book yet.
Title: Re: Athletic correctness
Post by: Jeff Hopkins '82 on September 22, 2022, 08:18:26 AM
Quote from: BearLover
Quote from: Jeff Hopkins '82
Quote from: DafatoneBaseball is fine. There's probably a combination of tweaks, like moving the mound back just a little (more contact) and making the ball a little more dead (weaker contact) that would result in more action.

But it's fine! Guys throw 95mph sliders. There's only so much you can do to increase balls in play.

The philosophy of "Homers or strikeouts."  That's ruined the game, too.
Are homers and strikeouts less exciting than singles and ground outs? Fewer stolen bases is no good, that's definitely true.

Depends.  A bunch of singles strung together can be extremely exciting. Taking the strategy out of the game and making it one-dimensional makes it less interesting to me.

But YMMV
Title: Re: Athletic correctness
Post by: Al DeFlorio on September 22, 2022, 10:44:50 AM
Quote from: Jeff Hopkins '82
Quote from: BearLover
Quote from: Jeff Hopkins '82
Quote from: DafatoneBaseball is fine. There's probably a combination of tweaks, like moving the mound back just a little (more contact) and making the ball a little more dead (weaker contact) that would result in more action.

But it's fine! Guys throw 95mph sliders. There's only so much you can do to increase balls in play.

The philosophy of "Homers or strikeouts."  That's ruined the game, too.
Are homers and strikeouts less exciting than singles and ground outs? Fewer stolen bases is no good, that's definitely true.

Depends.  A bunch of singles strung together can be extremely exciting. Taking the strategy out of the game and making it one-dimensional makes it less interesting to me.

But YMMV
Baserunning to stretch a hit or getting to third on a single or beating the throw to home is more exciting than jogging around the bases.
Title: Re: Athletic correctness
Post by: Beeeej on September 22, 2022, 10:55:42 AM
Quote from: Chris H82
Quote from: Beeeej
Quote from: marty
Quote from: TrotskyI've heard it's an even better book (like The Big Short) but I have not partaken.

I'm not into stats and thought the book was fascinating and a well told tale.

Well, that tears it - I've been keeping it shelved for a while, but I'm bringing it with me to Germany for next week.

If you've got room in your bag, also throw in "The Premonition  - a Pandemic Story", by Michael Lewis. I think it's his best book yet.

I wouldn't get a hard copy in time if I ordered it now, but I could always download to Kindle anytime next week anyway. Thanks!
Title: Re: Athletic correctness
Post by: Dafatone on September 22, 2022, 11:21:51 AM
Quote from: BearLover
Quote from: Jeff Hopkins '82
Quote from: DafatoneBaseball is fine. There's probably a combination of tweaks, like moving the mound back just a little (more contact) and making the ball a little more dead (weaker contact) that would result in more action.

But it's fine! Guys throw 95mph sliders. There's only so much you can do to increase balls in play.

The philosophy of "Homers or strikeouts."  That's ruined the game, too.
Are homers and strikeouts less exciting than singles and ground outs? Fewer stolen bases is no good, that's definitely true.

I'd say homers are exciting. Strikeouts are the big one that isn't exciting. Balls in play are good.
Title: Re: Athletic correctness
Post by: Dafatone on September 22, 2022, 11:23:25 AM
Quote from: Jeff Hopkins '82
Quote from: DafatoneBaseball is fine. There's probably a combination of tweaks, like moving the mound back just a little (more contact) and making the ball a little more dead (weaker contact) that would result in more action.

But it's fine! Guys throw 95mph sliders. There's only so much you can do to increase balls in play.

The philosophy of "Homers or strikeouts."  That's ruined the game, too.

It's kind of a chicken and egg thing. Guys throw much harder with better break (and arguably less control). If you're gonna make less contact because stuff is more untouchable, you might as well make that contact count.

Also, umps have decided that the strike zone is shins to thighs for some reason. Low zone = uppercut swings. I'd love for them to call actual letter-high strikes again.
Title: Re: Athletic correctness
Post by: Larry72 on September 22, 2022, 02:37:15 PM
Uh...guys/gals ... hockey???!
Title: Re: Athletic correctness
Post by: osorojo on September 22, 2022, 04:44:22 PM
If you can't sing good, sing loud. If you can't talk sense, talk lots.
Title: Re: Athletic correctness
Post by: Trotsky on September 22, 2022, 06:21:25 PM
Quote from: George64Aaron Judge hit his 60th home run last night.

He's goin to be something when he gets to a major league.
Title: Re: Athletic correctness
Post by: Trotsky on September 22, 2022, 06:23:12 PM
Quote from: Scersk '97All things have gone downhill since the invention of the arquebus.

Fixed.
Title: Re: Athletic correctness
Post by: Trotsky on September 22, 2022, 06:25:16 PM
Quote from: Larry72Uh...guys/gals ... hockey???!

< Looks at calendar. >

"In a little while, man."
Title: Re: Athletic correctness
Post by: billhoward on September 23, 2022, 09:47:27 AM
Quote from: Larry72Uh...guys/gals ... hockey???!
We should all use TD Bank. It might stand for thread drift.
Title: Re: Athletic correctness
Post by: ithacat on September 23, 2022, 12:41:38 PM
Quote from: billhowardWe should all use TD Bank. It might stand for thread drift.

I used to but tired of their website being down so much.
Title: Re: Athletic correctness
Post by: French Rage on September 23, 2022, 10:18:07 PM
Quote from: Larry72Uh...guys/gals ... hockey???!

That was never the subject of this thread; it was always about the OP's self-fellating.
Title: Re: Athletic correctness
Post by: osorojo on September 24, 2022, 02:45:24 PM
There you have it - from an expert on the subject.
Honi Soit qui Mal y Pense.