Anyone else going to be there anyway?
I was so excited when my son's hockey program picked this weekend to do the Can/Am tournament. Now I have a thrilling afternoon of Quinnipiac-Colgate to look forward to. Yay.
Tough room. I'll see myself out...
At least you'll outnumber the Harvard contingent.
Shortened version:
Lake Placid as it applies to weekend visitors with hockey on their minds is one street wide, Main Street, running south to north along the lake (Mirror Lake; Lake Placid is just north of downtown).
The Olympic Center rinks, also Lake Placid HS and the speed skating oval, are at the south end. Parking is free, just go where the cops point, at most it's a 5-minute walk to the rink. Most restaurants are along Main Street to the north.
Dining and drinking:
South of the rink:
Wiseguys Sports bar (walk downhill past the speed skating oval, first right, on School St), biggest sports bar in town, decent food.
Downtown diner, 2 blocks farther south, very good breakfasts
Lake Placid Brew Pub, walk downhill on Main with the skating oval on your right, turn left on Mirror Lake Drive, it's 1-1/2 blocks in. Good food and drink.
North of the rink:
Every imaginable kind of food and drink, also at least one spot with live entertainment.
Best sandwiches (closes 3pm), Big Mountain Deli & Creperie (see 46 Sandwiches flag)
High Peaks resort / Dancing Bear restaurant, pretty nice vibe for what was a Hilton a while back (1980 Olympics), drinks available on an outdoors patio with fireplace, palatable if the temp is above freezing)
The Cottage, a block past the downtown business district, on the lake, nice XC90-meets-Subaru-Forester kind of place.
Half-mile out of town, go to the of business district, bear left on Sara-Placid Road (townies may say The Sarananc Road):
Saranac Sourdough, 2126 Saranac Road, 9-2 (9-noon Sunday), very good sandwiches, could stop there for real food for the ride home.
Also on the outskirts of LP: Lisa G's, nicer fare, also has a good bar but not a sports bar.
In years past, you can go out for a beer or a pizza from the rink, especially Friday before game two, and get back in if your hand is stamped. Try that at MSG.
Lodging:
It comes down to hotels/motels in Lake Placid where you can walk to everything and pay a premium, and outside where you have to drive in. Quality pretty much correlates to what they charge. A goodly number of AirBnB's, not unlimited b/c LP is another town that restricts how many nights a year they can be rented out.
There is always lodging available, it just may be 15 or 20 minutes away, especially since ski season is winding down. Some of the motels out of town were built a long time ago, not all have been well maintained, so read guest comments carefully.
As of Monday 3/14, rates seem overly high. Maybe they'll fall off when Cornell fans turn out to not be coming. The Crown Plaza, very nice, just uphill from the rink, is asking $679 a night. Whereas the Hungry Trout a decent motel next to Whiteface Mountain 20 minutes away is $129.
I'm just hoping Mirror Lake and/or the Oval have one week of skating left in them. Highlights of the weekend the last time we were there.
Not going, but for the love of all that is holy, LET'S GO TECH!
Rooting for Casey all the way this weekend.
Word in LP today was that public skating on the Oval is on for (Tuesday) tomorrow, but the rest of the week is up in the air due to weather. The new refrigeration system should allow them to extend the season, and I think the urge is there to have it open during ECACs, unlike in years past when it seemed no one could be bothered.
Quote from: TrotskyAt least you'll outnumber the Harvard contingent.
I checked out some of their games during the Cornell itermission as my sons played with or against 5 kids on their roster. Stunning to see so few turn out for a home playoff game. That's depressing!
I'm rooting for Q so only one ECAC team makes the NCAAs. Never rooting for Clarkson again after 2018-19 ECAC Championship game.
Quote from: RatushnyFanQuote from: TrotskyAt least you'll outnumber the Harvard contingent.
I checked out some of their games during the Cornell itermission as my sons played with or against 5 kids on their roster. Stunning to see so few turn out for a home playoff game. That's depressing!
But not unusual. You shouldn't get depressed over a common occurrence.
I remember a series in Albany when the Harvard band was there for their semifinal, which they won, but left and didn't show for the finals.
Quote from: BearLoverI'm rooting for Q so only one ECAC team makes the NCAAs. Never rooting for Clarkson again after 2018-19 ECAC Championship game.
I'm rooting for Colgate for the exact opposite reason.
And Clarkson in the second game because Harvard.
Quote from: BearLoverNever rooting for Clarkson again after 2018-19 ECAC Championship game.
I don't think that's fair. The Clarkson forward tried to help him up and even signaled to the ref that play should be stopped, and afterwards Casey said it was terrible that play was not called immediately to help him.
That was on terrible officiating. Clarkson was nothing but honorable.
Quote from: Jim HylaQuote from: RatushnyFanQuote from: TrotskyAt least you'll outnumber the Harvard contingent.
I checked out some of their games during the Cornell itermission as my sons played with or against 5 kids on their roster. Stunning to see so few turn out for a home playoff game. That's depressing!
But not unusual. You shouldn't get depressed over a common occurrence.
I remember a series in Albany when the Harvard band was there for their semifinal, which they won, but left and didn't show for the finals.
There is a history of only fair attendance in the quarterfinals played on home ice at Lynah. We attended the Yale at Cornell games in 2002 and it was similarly attended.
The turn out on Saturday was, I think, a bit more than normal for this type of series. And the fans were great.
Quote from: BearLoverI'm rooting for Q so only one ECAC team makes the NCAAs. Never rooting for Clarkson again after 2018-19 ECAC Championship game.
Maybe it's a sign of the times, but I was upset that Coach Vaughan did not come over to shake Coach Syer's hand after the game Sunday. I believe it was also Casey Jones who just walked off Lynah without a shake this year.
Don't know why,but it certainly drops them down in my estimation.
I'll still root for Colgate and Clarkson Friday night. If they both win, probably Clarkson.
Quote from: Scersk '97Word in LP today was that public skating on the Oval is on for (Tuesday) tomorrow, but the rest of the week is up in the air due to weather. The new refrigeration system should allow them to extend the season, and I think the urge is there to have it open during ECACs, unlike in years past when it seemed no one could be bothered.
Lake Placid wants the ECACs to be there forever. (The current contract is through 2024.) The Adirondacks is a huge protected area and not a place to site industry, so visitors count for a lot. Even a low-turnout ECAC tournament beats the usual couple hundred using the rinks for youth or adult hockey on a typical weekend. Having the speed skating oval open is a good thing. Highs this weekend look like 50, 44, 37. Sort of borderline for an outdoor rink.
The ECACs moved to Lake Placid for the 1993 tournament, left for Albany and Atlantic City for a decade (I thought attendance in AC was so bad, the ECAC was paid to cut short the Atlantic City deal), have been back in Placid since 2014. From ECAC sites and Wiki:
[b]ECAC Hockey Tournament Finals[/b]
Boston Arena 1962-1966
Boston Garden 1967-1992
Lake Placid 1993-2002
Albany 2003-2010
Atlantic City 2011-2013
Lake Placid 2014-2024
Lake Placid is an overnight stay if you're from Ithaca, metro NYC or Boston. Alt sites the ECAC might consider, Albany and Bridgeport ('New Haven minus Yale equals Bridgeport') are possible one-day trips: Pack bags, drive up Friday, if your team wins, get online and find a room, else go home.
The ECAC offices are now in Clifton Park north of Albany, so perhaps there'll be a tug back to the Capital District. If hockey tournament attendance continues, could the Glens Falls Arena, now Cool Insuring Arena (cap. 4806) be in play? Especially if leagues favor arenas and tournaments with odd names. Beef O'Brady Bowl is about as bad as it gets.
Quote from: Jim HylaQuote from: BearLoverI'm rooting for Q so only one ECAC team makes the NCAAs. Never rooting for Clarkson again after 2018-19 ECAC Championship game.
Maybe it's a sign of the times, but I was upset that Coach Vaughan did not come over to shake Coach Syer's hand after the game Sunday. I believe it was also Casey Jones who just walked off Lynah without a shake this year.
Don't know why,but it certainly drops them down in my estimation.
I'll still root for Colgate and Clarkson Friday night. If they both win, probably Clarkson.
Casey gave a legit wave to the Cornell bench that night. I was in section N and saw it firsthand.
Quote from: Jim HylaQuote from: BearLoverI'm rooting for Q so only one ECAC team makes the NCAAs. Never rooting for Clarkson again after 2018-19 ECAC Championship game.
Maybe it's a sign of the times, but I was upset that Coach Vaughan did not come over to shake Coach Syer's hand after the game Sunday. I believe it was also Casey Jones who just walked off Lynah without a shake this year.
Don't know why,but it certainly drops them down in my estimation.
I'll still root for Colgate and Clarkson Friday night. If they both win, probably Clarkson.
The coaches haven't been doing this all season because of what I assume is COVID rules.
Quote from: IcebergQuote from: Jim HylaQuote from: BearLoverI'm rooting for Q so only one ECAC team makes the NCAAs. Never rooting for Clarkson again after 2018-19 ECAC Championship game.
Maybe it's a sign of the times, but I was upset that Coach Vaughan did not come over to shake Coach Syer's hand after the game Sunday. I believe it was also Casey Jones who just walked off Lynah without a shake this year.
Don't know why,but it certainly drops them down in my estimation.
I'll still root for Colgate and Clarkson Friday night. If they both win, probably Clarkson.
The coaches haven't been doing this all season because of what I assume is COVID rules.
Thanks, I didn't notice it till the end of the season.::doh::
Quote from: billhowardQuote from: Scersk '97If hockey tournament attendance continues, could the Glens Falls Arena, now Cool Insuring Arena (cap. 4806) be in play? Especially if leagues favor arenas and tournaments with odd names. Beef O'Brady Bowl is about as bad as it gets.
Having seen this facility from the dressing room up many times on visits with the Binghamton Senators, I can't see a potential move here being viable (dependent upon what one finds most ideal as a visiting team). Aging facility (constructed around the same time as Herb Brooks Arena) that has seen some upgrades, but not sure that would be enough to warrant a move. Capacity is ideal for an ECAC tournament that seems to struggle to come close to a full house in LP unless you get Cornell/Clarkson/SLU/random 4th team in a given year...atmosphere potential at Cool Insuring Arena would be attractive, but dressing room facilities would be a huge red flag. Room for AHL visitors back in the day was spartan (and that's being kind) and I'm not sure they have four adequate spaces to host teams for the semifinals.
Not totally unbiased here but Binghamton, with an aesthetically nicer facility with similar capacity would be a pretty good fan experience. But as is the case with smaller venues, dressing room amenities fall short of the travel party requirements both in space and modern feel.
Who do you want to NOT win? Would the worst of worlds be a Quinnipiac-Harvard title match?
I enjoy some small satisfaction that the odds against either Quinnipiac or Harvard winning the title involve a decimal point - and lots of zeros.
Quote from: billhowardWho do you want to NOT win? Would the worst of worlds be a Quinnipiac-Harvard title match?
Harvard wins. Q loses under all possibilities
Quote from: Jim HylaQuote from: billhowardWho do you want to NOT win? Would the worst of worlds be a Quinnipiac-Harvard title match?
Harvard wins. Q loses under all possibilities
Rooting for Q or Colgate to win the ECAC. Q winning would mean only one ECAC team makes the NCAAs. Colgate winning would mean two make the NCAAs, but Colgate is so bad that they'd lose 7-0 to Michigan in their first round game and we wouldn't have to worry about another ECAC frozen four/national title. Those are my two cents and they're just as valuable as anyone else's!
Quote from: BearLoverQuote from: Jim HylaQuote from: billhowardWho do you want to NOT win? Would the worst of worlds be a Quinnipiac-Harvard title match?
Harvard wins. Q loses under all possibilities
Rooting for Q or Colgate to win the ECAC. Q winning would mean only one ECAC team makes the NCAAs. Colgate winning would mean two make the NCAAs, but Colgate is so bad that they'd lose 7-0 to Michigan in their first round game and we wouldn't have to worry about another ECAC frozen four/national title. Those are my two cents and they're just as valuable as anyone else's!
I don't know that you have to be so touchy about having an opinion on this forum.
But, nor should you not expect someone(s) to disagree with you, as I have in the past.
Quote from: Jim HylaQuote from: BearLoverQuote from: Jim HylaQuote from: billhowardWho do you want to NOT win? Would the worst of worlds be a Quinnipiac-Harvard title match?
Harvard wins. Q loses under all possibilities
Rooting for Q or Colgate to win the ECAC. Q winning would mean only one ECAC team makes the NCAAs. Colgate winning would mean two make the NCAAs, but Colgate is so bad that they'd lose 7-0 to Michigan in their first round game and we wouldn't have to worry about another ECAC frozen four/national title. Those are my two cents and they're just as valuable as anyone else's!
I don't know that you have to be so touchy about having an opinion on this forum.
But, nor should you not expect someone(s) to disagree with you, as I have in the past.
I value your opinion, by the way. You tend to be kinder about expressing disagreement than some others on here. I suspect there are other former posters who disagree with the ELynah hive mind like I do, but those posters threw in the towel and left long ago. Personally, I am too stubborn and too addicted to Cornell hockey to leave this place.
Quote from: BearLoverQuote from: Jim HylaQuote from: BearLoverQuote from: Jim HylaQuote from: billhowardWho do you want to NOT win? Would the worst of worlds be a Quinnipiac-Harvard title match?
Harvard wins. Q loses under all possibilities
Rooting for Q or Colgate to win the ECAC. Q winning would mean only one ECAC team makes the NCAAs. Colgate winning would mean two make the NCAAs, but Colgate is so bad that they'd lose 7-0 to Michigan in their first round game and we wouldn't have to worry about another ECAC frozen four/national title. Those are my two cents and they're just as valuable as anyone else's!
I don't know that you have to be so touchy about having an opinion on this forum.
But, nor should you not expect someone(s) to disagree with you, as I have in the past.
I value your opinion, by the way. You tend to be kinder about expressing disagreement than some others on here. I suspect there are other former posters who disagree with the ELynah hive mind like I do, but those posters threw in the towel and left long ago. Personally, I am too stubborn and too addicted to Cornell hockey to leave this place.
Thanks, but over time it seems that you've also toned down the way you present your remarks. That makes a big difference when one is posting a negative opinion.
There's no reason to leave here if anyone can be willing to post reasonably and take criticism, which I agree, sometimes can be too personal.
Quote from: BearLoverI suspect there are other former posters who disagree with the ELynah hive mind like I do, but those posters threw in the towel and left long ago. Personally, I am too stubborn and too addicted to Cornell hockey to leave this place.
Remember, you need at least one friend to hammer in that last nail.
Quote from: Greenberg '97Anyone else going to be there anyway?
I was so excited when my son's hockey program picked this weekend to do the Can/Am tournament. Now I have a thrilling afternoon of Quinnipiac-Colgate to look forward to. Yay.
So as of now we know there will be one eLynah member in LP?
Quote from: martyQuote from: Greenberg '97Anyone else going to be there anyway?
I was so excited when my son's hockey program picked this weekend to do the Can/Am tournament. Now I have a thrilling afternoon of Quinnipiac-Colgate to look forward to. Yay.
So as of now we know there will be one eLynah member in LP?
The Fridge isn't a poster here...
Quote from: martyQuote from: Greenberg '97Anyone else going to be there anyway?
I was so excited when my son's hockey program picked this weekend to do the Can/Am tournament. Now I have a thrilling afternoon of Quinnipiac-Colgate to look forward to. Yay.
So as of now we know there will be one eLynah member in LP?
Well, I thoroughly embarrassed my son's hockey team by being the lone "Red!" during the anthem.
If they play it again later, at least I'll have Clarkson to keep me company.
QU already did what we couldn't do over our 3 game series, which is score the 1st goal. Given how stingy QU is, that could be enough.
The ESPN+ broadcast is lousy today. Audio is up&down in level & video comes & goes. Tbey suck today!!!!
Quote from: scoop85QU already did what we couldn't do over our 3 game series, which is score the 1st goal. Given how stingy QU is, that could be enough.
Now 2-0 with under 3 minutes left in the 1st. Probably all she wrote for the Raiders.
Quote from: rediceThe ESPN+ broadcast is lousy today. Audio is up&down in level & video comes & goes. Tbey suck today!!!!
I just called ESPN+.... They disconnected my call. I really didn't expect much from them. And they delivered! They clearly do not have their "A" team in LP.
Q 2 Colgate 1, late in the second.
Quote from: rediceQuote from: rediceThe ESPN+ broadcast is lousy today. Audio is up&down in level & video comes & goes. Tbey suck today!!!!
I just called ESPN+.... They disconnected my call. I really didn't expect much from them. And they delivered! They clearly do not have their "A" team in LP.
It's the Clarkson production team and announcers. Wouldn't call myself an eLynah member, but I'm here...and the lone "Red" during the anthem was VERY noticeable!!! LOL
Quote from: facemadeforradioQuote from: rediceQuote from: rediceThe ESPN+ broadcast is lousy today. Audio is up&down in level & video comes & goes. Tbey suck today!!!!
I just called ESPN+.... They disconnected my call. I really didn't expect much from them. And they delivered! They clearly do not have their "A" team in LP.
It's the Clarkson production team and announcers. Wouldn't call myself an eLynah member, but I'm here...and the lone "Red" during the anthem was VERY noticeable!!! LOL
If you're going to go, might as well go all in.
2-1 Q after 2.
Q 3-1, mid 3rd. Boo.
Amazing end of the first OT in the semi between the women of Northeastern and Minnesota Duluth.
Great save's by Frankel in the last minute.
ESPN+ giving us a freebie.
What I've learned from watching the Placid games: sports has become mind-numbingly boring to me without a strong rooting interest.
Quote from: TrotskyWhat I've learned from watching the Placid games: sports has become mind-numbingly boring to me without a strong rooting interest.
There's always sports gambling to get your juices flowing; I'm sure you might have seen an ad or two about it :-P (disclaimer: I don't have the faintest interest in sports gambling)
1-0 Harvard. Their fan is happy.
Right now it looks like Harvard would be the better chance to beat Q.
3-3 halfway through the third.
Rooting for the Meteor.
Quote from: Scersk '97Rooting for the Meteor.
Thought long and hard about this one. I will root for Sucks, albeit silently, for the two bids.
Still going tonight. Go hockey.
Son is in championship game tomorrow, which is all that really matters.
Quote from: Greenberg '97Quote from: Scersk '97Rooting for the Meteor.
Thought long and hard about this one. I will root for Sucks, albeit silently, for the two bids.
Still going tonight. Go hockey.
Son is in championship game tomorrow, which is all that really matters.
Let's give the ECAC bid to your son's team.
Quote from: TrotskyQuote from: Greenberg '97Quote from: Scersk '97Rooting for the Meteor.
Thought long and hard about this one. I will root for Sucks, albeit silently, for the two bids.
Still going tonight. Go hockey.
Son is in championship game tomorrow, which is all that really matters.
Let's give the ECAC bid to your son's team.
I'm all for that
Quote from: Greenberg '97Quote from: Scersk '97Rooting for the Meteor.
Thought long and hard about this one. I will root for Sucks, albeit silently, for the two bids.
Still going tonight. Go hockey.
Son is in championship game tomorrow, which is all that really matters.
I can't. I may hate QU, but eventually they'll leave. One can only hope. Very few care about that Northeastern championship back in '82.
But Harvard? That's forever.
Where did all these Harvard fans come from? Did the one guy reproduce by binary fission?
1-0 Sucks, pending review. Play was onside, not sure what they're looking at.
Quote from: Greenberg '97Where did all these Harvard fans come from? Did the one guy reproduce by binary fission?
1-0 Sucks, pending review. Play was onside, not sure what they're looking at.
Refs are looking, not linesmen.
Good goal.
Quote from: Greenberg '97Where did all these Harvard fans come from? Did the one guy reproduce by binary fission?.
The Cantabrigians found it's possible to find Incline Village/Lake Tahoe-look and possibly price houses at the north end of Mirror Lake (past the end of Main Street, opposite end from the arena).
Harvard up 2-1 with 13 to go in the third. Fairly uneventful and TBH kinda boring. Harvard not even bothering with transition, just taking the puck to the red and throwing it in.
Q goalie has the stupidest helmet I've ever seen. It looks like it was pounded together out of old caddy grills.
Quote from: TrotskyHarvard up 2-1 with 13 to go in the third. Fairly uneventful and TBH kinda boring. Harvard not even bothering with transition, just taking the puck to the red and throwing it in.
Q goalie has the stupidest helmet I've ever seen. It looks like it was pounded together out of old caddy grills.
It's been about fifteen years and I still want to know why Kris Mayotte had a chicken on his mask.
http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/7091/1661/1600/mayotte.season.record.0.gif
ESPN+ shits the bed with 10 to go.
pp + en for Q. 7 minutes to go. Going for it.
Q scores right off the faceoff. Damn, that's how you do it. Fuck Q but nice job by Pecknold.
Glad to be on the couch at home.
My definition of hell is being at the rink in a scoreless tie between Q & Harvard that lasts forever.
(Once every few minutes there is a score, a seven minute review and then the goal is waived off.)
Q outshot Harvard 18-1 in third period. As much as I hate/dislike/detest Q and Pecknold, I give him credit for not being afraid to pull his goalie when the occasion calls for it. I've always felt that Schafer is often too conservative in pulling our goalie when we are trailing in the third period. It paid off on the power-play with 6 minutes left tonight when Pecknold pulled the goalie with his team down by one.
Quote from: dbilmesQ outshot Harvard 18-1 in third period. As much as I hate/dislike/detest Q and Pecknold, I give him credit for not being afraid to pull his goalie when the occasion calls for it. I've always felt that Schafer is often too conservative in pulling our goalie when we are trailing in the third period. It paid off on the power-play with 6 minutes left tonight when Pecknold pulled the goalie with his team down by one.
It must have been a fairly easy decision to make. After all, Q OWNED the puck for most of the 3rd.
Harvard wins.
HARVARD 3-2 OT
I kept rooting for the meteor but it never arrived.
One good thing.
Quinnipiac:
ECAC RS Titles: 2013, 2015, 2016, 2019, 2021, 2022
ECAC Champions: 2016
Quote from: TrotskyOne good thing.
Quinnipiac:
ECAC RS Titles: 2013, 2015, 2016, 2019, 2021, 2022
ECAC Champions: 2016
Wow, kinda like cornell
Congrats everyone on the big win! Enjoy your night of partying.
Quote from: blackwidowQuote from: TrotskyOne good thing.
Quinnipiac:
ECAC RS Titles: 2013, 2015, 2016, 2019, 2021, 2022
ECAC Champions: 2016
Wow, kinda like cornell
Cornell drought goes back to 2010, last ECAC title. Longest in the Lynah Rink era.
Quote from: billhowardQuote from: blackwidowQuote from: TrotskyOne good thing.
Quinnipiac:
ECAC RS Titles: 2013, 2015, 2016, 2019, 2021, 2022
ECAC Champions: 2016
Wow, kinda like cornell
Cornell drought goes back to 2010, last ECAC title. Longest in the Lynah Rink era.
I just want us to win when it matters. I bet i can coach better than Schafer (tournaments only).
Quote from: blackwidowI just want us to win when it matters. I bet i can coach better than Schafer (tournaments only).
It wasn't Schafer who landed on top of Matt Galajada in OT of the 2019 title game against Clarkson and required Austin McGrath to come on in relief.
This Cornell Sun article recalls Cornell's unhappiness: https://cornellsun.com/2019/03/23/mens-hockey-falls-to-clarkson-in-controversy-laden-ecac-championship/
Quote from: blackwidowQuote from: TrotskyOne good thing.
Quinnipiac:
ECAC RS Titles: 2013, 2015, 2016, 2019, 2021, 2022
ECAC Champions: 2016
Wow, kinda like cornell
Cornell's Last 6 RS Titles and Championships from Those Seasons:
ECAC RS Titles: 1973, 2002, 2003, 2005, 2018, 2020
ECAC Champions: 1973, 2003, 2005
So, no.
Quote from: billhowardQuote from: blackwidowI just want us to win when it matters. I bet i can coach better than Schafer (tournaments only).
It wasn't Schafer who landed on top of Matt Galajada in OT of the 2019 title game against Clarkson and required Austin McGrath to come on in relief.
This Cornell Sun article recalls Cornell's unhappiness: https://cornellsun.com/2019/03/23/mens-hockey-falls-to-clarkson-in-controversy-laden-ecac-championship/
I was gonna say it wasnt just about the 2019 ezac championship game but i guess this habit of doing better in regular season games than tournament games started rather recently. (To be honest, i only started following cornell hockey in 2017 and started retroactively reading up on their history and became mightily disillusioned.)
Quote from: TrotskyQuote from: blackwidowQuote from: TrotskyOne good thing.
Quinnipiac:
ECAC RS Titles: 2013, 2015, 2016, 2019, 2021, 2022
ECAC Champions: 2016
Wow, kinda like cornell
Cornell's Last 6 RS Titles and Championships from Those Seasons:
ECAC RS Titles: 1973, 2002, 2003, 2005, 2018, 2020
ECAC Champions: 1973, 2003, 2005
So, no.
My apologies. I only started following cornell hockey a few years back. My impression of cornell hockey being a team that cracks under pressure got compounded by my traumatic experience of witnessing cornell womens hockey falling to the princeton womens team in the ecac final just before the start of the pandemic. In the last couple years, it just felt like both men and women have been dropping the games that really matter. Im relatively young and impressionable.(i also attended the 18-19 championship game against clarkson in lake placid in person)
Harvard lapping the ECAC in recruiting has come home to roost. Frankly, had last season not been canceled, the 2020-21 Harvard team may been the most talented team in ECAC history post-split with Hockey East. Players who went pro when last season was canceled included Jack Drury, Jack Badini, Jack Rathbone (yes, triple Jack), and Reilly Walsh. Matty Beniers decommitted and went to Michigan, where he is a Hobey Baker finalist this season. Harvard's talent level is off the charts by ECAC standards and Donato is finally figuring out how to win with it. Harvard has always gotten talent, but never like this. I predict Harvard, not Cornell or Quinnipiac or Clarkson, will be the dominant force in the league over the next decade.
Quote from: BearLoverHarvard lapping the ECAC in recruiting has come home to roost. Frankly, had last season not been canceled, the 2020-21 Harvard team may been the most talented team in ECAC history post-split with Hockey East. Players who went pro when last season was canceled included Jack Drury, Jack Badini, Jack Rathbone (yes, triple Jack), and Reilly Walsh. Matty Beniers decommitted and went to Michigan, where he is a Hobey Baker finalist this season. Harvard's talent level is off the charts by ECAC standards and Donato is finally figuring out how to win with it. Harvard has always gotten talent, but never like this. I predict Harvard, not Cornell or Quinnipiac or Clarkson, will be the dominant force in the league over the next decade.
They were outshot something like 46 to 15 tonight, so maybe we can hold off on the hagiography.
Quote from: BearLoverHarvard lapping the ECAC in recruiting has come home to roost. Frankly, had last season not been canceled, the 2020-21 Harvard team may been the most talented team in ECAC history post-split with Hockey East. Players who went pro when last season was canceled included Jack Drury, Jack Badini, Jack Rathbone (yes, triple Jack), and Reilly Walsh. Matty Beniers decommitted and went to Michigan, where he is a Hobey Baker finalist this season. Harvard's talent level is off the charts by ECAC standards and Donato is finally figuring out how to win with it. Harvard has always gotten talent, but never like this. I predict Harvard, not Cornell or Quinnipiac or Clarkson, will be the dominant force in the league over the next decade.
I have no crystal ball but I think we are as well-placed to dominate as anybody in the league except perhaps Q who can admit subhumans.
Quote from: TrotskyQuote from: BearLoverHarvard lapping the ECAC in recruiting has come home to roost. Frankly, had last season not been canceled, the 2020-21 Harvard team may been the most talented team in ECAC history post-split with Hockey East. Players who went pro when last season was canceled included Jack Drury, Jack Badini, Jack Rathbone (yes, triple Jack), and Reilly Walsh. Matty Beniers decommitted and went to Michigan, where he is a Hobey Baker finalist this season. Harvard's talent level is off the charts by ECAC standards and Donato is finally figuring out how to win with it. Harvard has always gotten talent, but never like this. I predict Harvard, not Cornell or Quinnipiac or Clarkson, will be the dominant force in the league over the next decade.
I have no crystal ball but I think we are as well-placed to dominate as anybody in the league except perhaps Q who can admit subhumans.
80+% acceptance rate
Q was 1-5-1 against Cornell, Harvard, and Clarkson. 30-1-3 against everyone else. Means either that they will win the National title or they kind of suck.
Quote from: scoop85Quote from: BearLoverHarvard lapping the ECAC in recruiting has come home to roost. Frankly, had last season not been canceled, the 2020-21 Harvard team may been the most talented team in ECAC history post-split with Hockey East. Players who went pro when last season was canceled included Jack Drury, Jack Badini, Jack Rathbone (yes, triple Jack), and Reilly Walsh. Matty Beniers decommitted and went to Michigan, where he is a Hobey Baker finalist this season. Harvard's talent level is off the charts by ECAC standards and Donato is finally figuring out how to win with it. Harvard has always gotten talent, but never like this. I predict Harvard, not Cornell or Quinnipiac or Clarkson, will be the dominant force in the league over the next decade.
They were outshot something like 46 to 15 tonight, so maybe we can hold off on the hagiography.
This rejoinder is the correct one. There is nothing Harvard does that can't be solved by playing great defense. And, after next year, I predict we will be discussing the significant and immediate diaspora from Cambridge. Our current sophomores and freshmen, however talented, will not be leaving.
Still, if BearLover is right, I can bide my time. Much of the 80s were Harvard's and, to a lesser extent, SLU's. We did fine during that time, even winning a championship in '86 and having chances to do so again later on. These things go in cycles, and the structural advantages that Harvard seems to enjoy in recruiting right now may not always obtain.
What I am most concerned about are Schafer and Schafer.
(1) I hope Schafer can "go" next year. Although I think he'll be able to, and I'm doubly sure that there is nothing he wants more, I have no inkling either way. Heart problems take a while to recover from, but they can be recovered from just fine. I worry for him; I very much want him to be able to retire from coaching on his own terms. But, in an institutional sense, I worry because...
(2) The thing that can go really wrong is the transition to whomever comes next.
Schafer will not coach Cornell forever. In replacing a "generational" coach, we can't botch the next hire like, say, BU seems to have by hiring a new generational coach that didn't stick around or Clarkson did by hiring a quick replacement that couldn't control a team at the Division I level.
That's what happened with McCutcheon, who, by all reports, seems to be able to coach hockey but just lost his touch with college players in a way that I think, definitively now, it seems someone like Schafer does not. We either need our next generational coach, or we need a "short timer" that doesn't stay around too long but leaves the team in a good condition. Either way, we can't blow it, so I would prefer that transition takes the right amount of time and consideration. And, if the hockey gods be kind, I hope we really, really luck out like we did back in 1995.
Quote from: Al DeFlorioQuote from: TrotskyQuote from: BearLoverHarvard lapping the ECAC in recruiting has come home to roost. Frankly, had last season not been canceled, the 2020-21 Harvard team may been the most talented team in ECAC history post-split with Hockey East. Players who went pro when last season was canceled included Jack Drury, Jack Badini, Jack Rathbone (yes, triple Jack), and Reilly Walsh. Matty Beniers decommitted and went to Michigan, where he is a Hobey Baker finalist this season. Harvard's talent level is off the charts by ECAC standards and Donato is finally figuring out how to win with it. Harvard has always gotten talent, but never like this. I predict Harvard, not Cornell or Quinnipiac or Clarkson, will be the dominant force in the league over the next decade.
I have no crystal ball but I think we are as well-placed to dominate as anybody in the league except perhaps Q who can admit subhumans.
80+% acceptance rate
I don't see why so many folks get hung up about acceptance rate as some sort of signal that a school isn't great. Clarkson also has an acceptance rate of about 80% and people don't bag on it because there are tons of other factors in the quality of a school.
Quote from: WederQuote from: Al DeFlorioQuote from: TrotskyQuote from: BearLoverHarvard lapping the ECAC in recruiting has come home to roost. Frankly, had last season not been canceled, the 2020-21 Harvard team may been the most talented team in ECAC history post-split with Hockey East. Players who went pro when last season was canceled included Jack Drury, Jack Badini, Jack Rathbone (yes, triple Jack), and Reilly Walsh. Matty Beniers decommitted and went to Michigan, where he is a Hobey Baker finalist this season. Harvard's talent level is off the charts by ECAC standards and Donato is finally figuring out how to win with it. Harvard has always gotten talent, but never like this. I predict Harvard, not Cornell or Quinnipiac or Clarkson, will be the dominant force in the league over the next decade.
I have no crystal ball but I think we are as well-placed to dominate as anybody in the league except perhaps Q who can admit subhumans.
80+% acceptance rate
I don't see why so many folks get hung up about acceptance rate as some sort of signal that a school isn't great. Clarkson also has an acceptance rate of about 80% and people don't bag on it because there are tons of other factors in the quality of a school.
I agree. Cornell gets made fun of for the same reason in the ivy league :'(
Quote from: TrotskyQuote from: blackwidowQuote from: TrotskyOne good thing.
Quinnipiac:
ECAC RS Titles: 2013, 2015, 2016, 2019, 2021, 2022
ECAC Champions: 2016
Wow, kinda like cornell
Cornell's Last 6 RS Titles and Championships from Those Seasons:
ECAC RS Titles: 1973, 2002, 2003, 2005, 2018, 2020
ECAC Champions: 1973, 2003, 2005
So, no.
Not to mention the titles in 1980, 1986, 1996, 1997, and 2010 as a non-1-seed in the same timespan.
Quote from: Scersk '97Quote from: scoop85Quote from: BearLoverHarvard lapping the ECAC in recruiting has come home to roost. Frankly, had last season not been canceled, the 2020-21 Harvard team may been the most talented team in ECAC history post-split with Hockey East. Players who went pro when last season was canceled included Jack Drury, Jack Badini, Jack Rathbone (yes, triple Jack), and Reilly Walsh. Matty Beniers decommitted and went to Michigan, where he is a Hobey Baker finalist this season. Harvard's talent level is off the charts by ECAC standards and Donato is finally figuring out how to win with it. Harvard has always gotten talent, but never like this. I predict Harvard, not Cornell or Quinnipiac or Clarkson, will be the dominant force in the league over the next decade.
They were outshot something like 46 to 15 tonight, so maybe we can hold off on the hagiography.
This rejoinder is the correct one. There is nothing Harvard does that can't be solved by playing great defense. And, after next year, I predict we will be discussing the significant and immediate diaspora from Cambridge. Our current sophomores and freshmen, however talented, will not be leaving.
The thing about Harvard is that even the elite players tend to stay in school 3 or 4 years. The players already self-selected to care about their education when they chose the school, and once they matriculate they appear to value finishing their degree more than players at programs of comparable talent. See, for example, Harvard's 2017 Frozen Four team—stocked with draft picks, many of whom were in their senior season. Cornell can compete with a team like BU when the average BU player is 2 years younger. Things get dicey when you're going up against BU talent in their junior or senior season.
Quote from: BearLoverQuote from: Scersk '97Quote from: scoop85Quote from: BearLoverHarvard lapping the ECAC in recruiting has come home to roost. Frankly, had last season not been canceled, the 2020-21 Harvard team may been the most talented team in ECAC history post-split with Hockey East. Players who went pro when last season was canceled included Jack Drury, Jack Badini, Jack Rathbone (yes, triple Jack), and Reilly Walsh. Matty Beniers decommitted and went to Michigan, where he is a Hobey Baker finalist this season. Harvard's talent level is off the charts by ECAC standards and Donato is finally figuring out how to win with it. Harvard has always gotten talent, but never like this. I predict Harvard, not Cornell or Quinnipiac or Clarkson, will be the dominant force in the league over the next decade.
They were outshot something like 46 to 15 tonight, so maybe we can hold off on the hagiography.
This rejoinder is the correct one. There is nothing Harvard does that can't be solved by playing great defense. And, after next year, I predict we will be discussing the significant and immediate diaspora from Cambridge. Our current sophomores and freshmen, however talented, will not be leaving.
The thing about Harvard is that even the elite players tend to stay in school 3 or 4 years. The players already self-selected to care about their education when they chose the school, and once they matriculate they appear to value finishing their degree more than players at programs of comparable talent. See, for example, Harvard's 2017 Frozen Four team—stocked with draft picks, many of whom were in their senior season. Cornell can compete with a team like BU when the average BU player is 2 years younger. Things get dicey when you're going up against BU talent in their junior or senior season.
Harvard is and always has been "stocked with draft picks" for the past 25+ years. Outside broadcasters and hockey fans always come in and ooooh and ahhhh about their perennial 8-9+ drafted players when they look at the roster. And Harvard nearly always underperforms by that metric. Draft picks don't matter as much as coaching and development at this level.
I'm sure there's likely family pride involved when a talented kid considering the college route makes that choice simply to have a "Harvard Man" in the family. You can't get that anywhere else, not even Yale or Princeton. It's probably more parental pressure than the players' managers. Every so often a blue chipper like Oliver Wahlstrom breaks that and goes somewhere else as the hype builds, but the "elite education" factor will keep most of the players. Also, the gentlemanly club life at Yale.
Quote from: RichHHarvard is and always has been "stocked with draft picks" for the past 25+ years. Outside broadcasters and hockey fans always come in and ooooh and ahhhh about their perennial 8-9+ drafted players when they look at the roster. And Harvard nearly always underperforms by that metric. Draft picks don't matter as much as coaching and development at this level.
I'm sure there's likely family pride involved when a talented kid considering the college route makes that choice simply to have a "Harvard Man" in the family. You can't get that anywhere else, not even Yale or Princeton. It's probably more parental pressure than the players' managers. Every so often a blue chipper like Oliver Wahlstrom breaks that and goes somewhere else as the hype builds, but the "elite education" factor will keep most of the players. Also, the gentlemanly club life at Yale.
HYP have outstanding financial aid which also helps: nobody gets fucked simply for cost they can't absorb. Cornell still doesn't do that, presumably because the endowment is not large enough and not because Day Hall are psychotics robotically playing out the dismal string of Late Stage Capitalism.
Even if we did something about that there would still be designer label effect, and that won't even be solved when the proles inevitably rise and butcher the rich. Though it is something to look forward to.
I'm still not convinced anything has changed in recruiting dynamic. I am now old enough to have experienced all of the following schools being trumpeted as on the way to perpetual dominance due to alleged systemic advantages:
RPI
Harvard
St. Lawrence
Clarkson
St. Lawrence, again
Princeton (Remember that one? That was hilarious)
Yale
Harvard again
No doubt in a few years there will be a Moral Panic about the rise of Brown.
Quote from: TrotskyNo doubt in a few years there will be a Moral Panic about the rise of Brown.
I will take that bet right now.
Quote from: BearLoverQuote from: Scersk '97Quote from: scoop85Quote from: BearLoverHarvard lapping the ECAC in recruiting has come home to roost. Frankly, had last season not been canceled, the 2020-21 Harvard team may been the most talented team in ECAC history post-split with Hockey East. Players who went pro when last season was canceled included Jack Drury, Jack Badini, Jack Rathbone (yes, triple Jack), and Reilly Walsh. Matty Beniers decommitted and went to Michigan, where he is a Hobey Baker finalist this season. Harvard's talent level is off the charts by ECAC standards and Donato is finally figuring out how to win with it. Harvard has always gotten talent, but never like this. I predict Harvard, not Cornell or Quinnipiac or Clarkson, will be the dominant force in the league over the next decade.
They were outshot something like 46 to 15 tonight, so maybe we can hold off on the hagiography.
This rejoinder is the correct one. There is nothing Harvard does that can't be solved by playing great defense. And, after next year, I predict we will be discussing the significant and immediate diaspora from Cambridge. Our current sophomores and freshmen, however talented, will not be leaving.
The thing about Harvard is that even the elite players tend to stay in school 3 or 4 years. The players already self-selected to care about their education when they chose the school, and once they matriculate they appear to value finishing their degree more than players at programs of comparable talent. See, for example, Harvard's 2017 Frozen Four team—stocked with draft picks, many of whom were in their senior season. Cornell can compete with a team like BU when the average BU player is 2 years younger. Things get dicey when you're going up against BU talent in their junior or senior season.
Once they matriculate the entire world values finishing their degrees more than (those of) players at programs of comparable talent.
Quote from: SwampyQuote from: BearLoverQuote from: Scersk '97And, after next year, I predict we will be discussing the significant and immediate diaspora from Cambridge. Our current sophomores and freshmen, however talented, will not be leaving.
The thing about Harvard is that even the elite players tend to stay in school 3 or 4 years. The players already self-selected to care about their education when they chose the school, and once they matriculate they appear to value finishing their degree more than players at programs of comparable talent. See, for example, Harvard's 2017 Frozen Four team—stocked with draft picks, many of whom were in their senior season. Cornell can compete with a team like BU when the average BU player is 2 years younger. Things get dicey when you're going up against BU talent in their junior or senior season.
Once they matriculate the entire world values finishing their degrees more than (those of) players at programs of comparable talent.
There seems to be some confusion about what I wrote, so I'll be more explicit. I think Coronato is gone after next year; even a Harvard boy will answer the siren's song. Then, the numerous current juniors who have not enjoyed all of their eligibility due to the COVID year will face a choice. I think they'll bag it and "leave" too, bachelors in hand.
Regarding next year itself, I have not explored my thoughts on a granular level; for example, Donato's kid is the only one of their current seniors who was on the Betts, Locke, Haiskanen plan. I don't have any insight on any particular players, mostly because I don't care overly much to troll the bare mentions in the Crimson as to their plans. Maybe many of this year's seniors with eligibility left try to pull a Andreev. If, say, Dornbach and Rifai both do, Harvard's going to be odds on favorites to win it all again next year. National implications start to swirl. Absolutely sickening, I know, but that's the facts.
After that, Harvard, to my eyes, will return to a more normal level. Any current juniors who try to pursue their extra year of eligibility in Cambridge will only make the rebuilding process longer and more painful. Maybe we have a similar problem. Something in me thinks that the current juniors are leaving Ithaca after next year, but I could be wrong.
F'ing COVID.
Quote from: Scersk '97Quote from: SwampyQuote from: BearLoverQuote from: Scersk '97And, after next year, I predict we will be discussing the significant and immediate diaspora from Cambridge. Our current sophomores and freshmen, however talented, will not be leaving.
The thing about Harvard is that even the elite players tend to stay in school 3 or 4 years. The players already self-selected to care about their education when they chose the school, and once they matriculate they appear to value finishing their degree more than players at programs of comparable talent. See, for example, Harvard's 2017 Frozen Four team—stocked with draft picks, many of whom were in their senior season. Cornell can compete with a team like BU when the average BU player is 2 years younger. Things get dicey when you're going up against BU talent in their junior or senior season.
Once they matriculate the entire world values finishing their degrees more than (those of) players at programs of comparable talent.
There seems to be some confusion about what I wrote, so I'll be more explicit. I think Coronato is gone after next year; even a Harvard boy will answer the siren's song. Then, the numerous current juniors who have not enjoyed all of their eligibility due to the COVID year will face a choice. I think they'll bag it and "leave" too, bachelors in hand.
Regarding next year itself, I have not explored my thoughts on a granular level; for example, Donato's kid is the only one of their current seniors who was on the Betts, Locke, Haiskanen plan. I don't have any insight on any particular players, mostly because I don't care overly much to troll the bare mentions in the Crimson as to their plans. Maybe many of this year's seniors with eligibility left try to pull a Andreev. If, say, Dornbach and Rifai both do, Harvard's going to be odds on favorites to win it all again next year. National implications start to swirl. Absolutely sickening, I know, but that's the facts.
After that, Harvard, to my eyes, will return to a more normal level. Any current juniors who try to pursue their extra year of eligibility in Cambridge will only make the rebuilding process longer and more painful. Maybe we have a similar problem. Something in me thinks that the current juniors are leaving Ithaca after next year, but I could be wrong.
F'ing COVID.
You may well be right about all of the above. But my point is less about Harvard's current roster and more about the direction the program has trended. Yes, Harvard has always gotten the best talent in the ECAC. But this year's 12 draft picks is the most in Harvard history. They would have had even more if not for COVID. Cornell, meanwhile, has 4. And judging from the recruits in the pipeline, there are more Coronatos on the way.
Quote from: BearLoverQuote from: Scersk '97Quote from: SwampyQuote from: BearLoverQuote from: Scersk '97And, after next year, I predict we will be discussing the significant and immediate diaspora from Cambridge. Our current sophomores and freshmen, however talented, will not be leaving.
The thing about Harvard is that even the elite players tend to stay in school 3 or 4 years. The players already self-selected to care about their education when they chose the school, and once they matriculate they appear to value finishing their degree more than players at programs of comparable talent. See, for example, Harvard's 2017 Frozen Four team—stocked with draft picks, many of whom were in their senior season. Cornell can compete with a team like BU when the average BU player is 2 years younger. Things get dicey when you're going up against BU talent in their junior or senior season.
Once they matriculate the entire world values finishing their degrees more than (those of) players at programs of comparable talent.
There seems to be some confusion about what I wrote, so I'll be more explicit. I think Coronato is gone after next year; even a Harvard boy will answer the siren's song. Then, the numerous current juniors who have not enjoyed all of their eligibility due to the COVID year will face a choice. I think they'll bag it and "leave" too, bachelors in hand.
Regarding next year itself, I have not explored my thoughts on a granular level; for example, Donato's kid is the only one of their current seniors who was on the Betts, Locke, Haiskanen plan. I don't have any insight on any particular players, mostly because I don't care overly much to troll the bare mentions in the Crimson as to their plans. Maybe many of this year's seniors with eligibility left try to pull a Andreev. If, say, Dornbach and Rifai both do, Harvard's going to be odds on favorites to win it all again next year. National implications start to swirl. Absolutely sickening, I know, but that's the facts.
After that, Harvard, to my eyes, will return to a more normal level. Any current juniors who try to pursue their extra year of eligibility in Cambridge will only make the rebuilding process longer and more painful. Maybe we have a similar problem. Something in me thinks that the current juniors are leaving Ithaca after next year, but I could be wrong.
F'ing COVID.
You may well be right about all of the above. But my point is less about Harvard's current roster and more about the direction the program has trended. Yes, Harvard has always gotten the best talent in the ECAC. But this year's 12 draft picks is the most in Harvard history. They would have had even more if not for COVID. Cornell, meanwhile, has 4. And judging from the recruits in the pipeline, there are more Coronatos on the way.
Pain :'(
Quote from: BearLoverYou may well be right about all of the above. But my point is less about Harvard's current roster and more about the direction the program has trended. Yes, Harvard has always gotten the best talent in the ECAC. But this year's 12 draft picks is the most in Harvard history. They would have had even more if not for COVID. Cornell, meanwhile, has 4. And judging from the recruits in the pipeline, there are more Coronatos on the way.
I think Harvard's recent assistants, Jim Tortorella (brother of John) and before him Paul Pearl, are the structural advantage more than anything else. Tortorella's thankfully an '81 Maine grad, so one hopes he's getting close to retirement age, at least for the rigors of the recruiting trail.
We'll see if Teddy can mold all those blue chippahs into a cohesive and consistent unit. They'll surely be, as normal, dangerous. As long as Schafer can get back to full strength, I still like our chances.
Quote from: Al DeFlorio[Quinnipiac] 80+% acceptance rate
Quinnipiac accepts 82% of applicants to get about 1800 first years, a 11% yield. That was before last year (for the current first year class): with admissions down 20%, the accept rate climbed to 87%, 80% for engineering (is this the guy who'll determine how many pilings must be sunk how deep in marshy soil to keep the next Home Deport above the water table?
R.I.T., the school that replaces Quinnipiac in our hearts in the ECAC, has a 74% acceptance rate and a 19% yield. I thought it was more selective; maybe that was a generation ago when Kodak poured lots of engineers through the MBA program and paid good money for it.
Quote from: billhowardQuote from: Al DeFlorio[Quinnipiac] 80+% acceptance rate
Quinnipiac accepts 82% of applicants to get about 1800 first years, a 11% yield. That was before last year (for the current first year class): with admissions down 20%, the accept rate climbed to 87%, 80% for engineering (is this the guy who'll determine how many pilings must be sunk how deep in marshy soil to keep the next Home Deport above the water table?
R.I.T., the school that replaces Quinnipiac in our hearts in the ECAC, has a 74% acceptance rate and a 19% yield. I thought it was more selective; maybe that was a generation ago when Kodak poured lots of engineers through the MBA program and paid good money for it.
If Kodak were in the mix wouldn't it be less selective. How many Kodak engineers would be rejected?
Why does it matter if the other ECAC teams have strong academics? Are Clarkson or St. Lawrence considered good schools (I'm asking in earnest; I have no idea)? We already have the Ivy League. I don't think we need to belong to any additional academically elite groups. And quality of academics doesn't have much bearing on the quality of the hockey program.
Quote from: martyIf Kodak were in the mix wouldn't it be less selective. How many Kodak engineers would be rejected?
George Eastman's money the U of R one of the best endowed schools in America, per capita, for much of the 20th century. It also spent R&D funds at RIT and Rochester and sent a lot of Kodak staff to RIT for grad degrees. The funding let RIT hire better profs, buy more equipment, make it a more desirable school. Now, pretty much no more Kodak: 80,000 down to ~6,000.
Quote from: billhowardQuote from: martyIf Kodak were in the mix wouldn't it be less selective. How many Kodak engineers would be rejected?
George Eastman's money the U of R one of the best endowed schools in America, per capita, for much of the 20th century. It also spent R&D funds at RIT and Rochester and sent a lot of Kodak staff to RIT for grad degrees. The funding let RIT hire better profs, buy more equipment, make it a more desirable school. Now, pretty much no more Kodak: 80,000 down to ~6,000.
I'm just saying statistically if 99% of the Kodak folks get in the program that would mean it was less selective overall. Not arguing about the quality of the students or the program, just the silly statistic.
If the engineering school is more selective, which I'm guessing it still is, the current overall selectivity number might not reflect what many of us think of as RIT.
It's no Q.
as many of the ivy kids apply to several of the schools its not really selective anyway.. if 50K apply to the same 5 schools and they all take 10K it looks like each school only accepts 20% of applicants.. but is that really reflective of what happened.
Quote from: martyQuote from: billhowardQuote from: martyIf Kodak were in the mix wouldn't it be less selective. How many Kodak engineers would be rejected?
George Eastman's money the U of R one of the best endowed schools in America, per capita, for much of the 20th century. It also spent R&D funds at RIT and Rochester and sent a lot of Kodak staff to RIT for grad degrees. The funding let RIT hire better profs, buy more equipment, make it a more desirable school. Now, pretty much no more Kodak: 80,000 down to ~6,000.
I'm just saying statistically if 99% of the Kodak folks get in the program that would mean it was less selective overall. Not arguing about the quality of the students or the program, just the silly statistic.
If the engineering school is more selective, which I'm guessing it still is, the current overall selectivity number might not reflect what many of us think of as RIT.
It's no Q.
only true if kodak isn't a destination company recruiting top candidates to work for it that it then sends to the local school. i would argue that for a long time kodak was one of those companies.
No question RIT is a pretty good school. Maybe RIT joining ECAC will raise its profile with recruits. Atlantic Hockey where RIT resides now has 10 schools and other than Army and Air Force, the only other school you think as a name sports school is Holy Cross. RIT has 17,000 undergraduate students; the others have 1,700 (AIC) to 4,400 (Army, Air Force). Academically, RIT is at 117 in the US News Top National Universities, Clarkson is 127, RPI is 55, Quinnipiac is 148. St. Lawrence is ranked among Liberal Arts schools, #57, where Union is #50. So RIT's entree would not water down the league, if that is a quote concern.
Atlantic Hockey is Air Force, AIC, Army, Bentley, Canisius, Holy Cross, Mercyhurst, Niagara, RIT, Sacred Heart. Used to include Iona, Fairfield and Robert Morris, all dropped hockey; Quinnipiac to ECAC 2005, UConn to Hockey East 2014.
Quote from: upprdeckas many of the ivy kids apply to several of the schools its not really selective anyway.. if 50K apply to the same 5 schools and they all take 10K it looks like each school only accepts 20% of applicants.. but is that really reflective of what happened.
Sometimes when I think about admissions rates, selectivity, and yields, I'm never sure if cause and effect get confused.
This is my take on the historical trend:
-- Smart boomers & early early millennials, 1-1/2 to 2 generations ago, apply to ~6 schools: 2 Ivy-class, 2 good, 2 safety. Paper documentation is a pain to do even a half-dozen, and the guidance counselor counsels against making more work for him or her.
-- Computers happen, easy to apply to more schools, applications jump to 10? 12? for smart students or students with nervous parents
-- Good schools admit smaller fraction of applicants knowing higher fraction of admits who were reach-applicants will accept the best school they get in to
-- Yield becomes a better measure of selectivity
-- Some good schools may deny admission to overqualified admit suspecting they won't attend, so even the yield number can be tinkered with.
US News says 2020 admit rates for the eight Ivies was 7.6%. For all other national universities it was 68.3%, nine times as much. Early admissions applicants are admitted at an 18.1% rate vs. 55.1% for non-Ivy nationals. For most but not all Ivies, an early decision acceptance is bindjng, so there's no loss to other schools.
What happens at Cornell has a big impact on Ivy League admits because Cornell educates a quarter of the 15,000 students entering the Ivies each year and that will go up a bit higher when all the new North Campus dorms come online.
There are only two dozen schools that have a yield of 50% or better. Harvard is at 82% and Cornell is at 60%; the other Ivies are in between. A number of high-yield schools are religious and Gallaudet is for deaf and hearing-impaired. They are many, many more schools with yields of 10% or less. Quinnipiac is at 11%.
Harvard University (MA), 82%
Stanford University (CA), 82%
Brigham Young University—Provo (UT), 81%
University of Chicago, 81%
Massachusetts Institute of Technology, 77%
Harding University (AR), 71%
Princeton University (NJ), 70%
University of Pennsylvania, 70%
Yale University (CT), 69%
Dartmouth College (NH), 64%
Gallaudet University (DC), 63%
Columbia University (NY), 62%
Brown University (RI), 61%
Keiser University (FL), 61%
Yeshiva University (NY), 61%
Cornell University (NY), 60%
University of Notre Dame (IN), 58%
Georgia Southern University, 56%
University of Texas—Rio Grande Valley, 56%
Kennesaw State University (GA), 55%
Northwestern University (IL), 55%
Duke University (NC), 54%
William Carey University (MS), 50%
Quote from: billhowardQuote from: upprdeckas many of the ivy kids apply to several of the schools its not really selective anyway.. if 50K apply to the same 5 schools and they all take 10K it looks like each school only accepts 20% of applicants.. but is that really reflective of what happened.
Sometimes when I think about admissions rates, selectivity, and yields, I'm never sure if cause and effect get confused.
This is my take on the historical trend:
-- Smart boomers & early early millennials, 1-1/2 to 2 generations ago, apply to ~6 schools: 2 Ivy-class, 2 good, 2 safety. Paper documentation is a pain to do even a half-dozen, and the guidance counselor counsels against making more work for him or her.
-- Computers happen, easy to apply to more schools, applications jump to 10? 12? for smart students or students with nervous parents
-- Good schools admit smaller fraction of applicants knowing higher fraction of admits who were reach-applicants will accept the best school they get in to
-- Yield becomes a better measure of selectivity
-- Some good schools may deny admission to overqualified admit suspecting they won't attend, so even the yield number can be tinkered with.
US News says 2020 admit rates for the eight Ivies was 7.6%. For all other national universities it was 68.3%, nine times as much. Early admissions applicants are admitted at an 18.1% rate vs. 55.1% for non-Ivy nationals. For most but not all Ivies, an early decision acceptance is bindjng, so there's no loss to other schools.
What happens at Cornell has a big impact on Ivy League admits because Cornell educates a quarter of the 15,000 students entering the Ivies each year and that will go up a bit higher when all the new North Campus dorms come online.
There are only two dozen schools that have a yield of 50% or better. Harvard is at 82% and Cornell is at 60%; the other Ivies are in between. A number of high-yield schools are religious and Gallaudet is for deaf and hearing-impaired. They are many, many more schools with yields of 10% or less. Quinnipiac is at 11%.
Harvard University (MA), 82%
Stanford University (CA), 82%
Brigham Young University—Provo (UT), 81%
University of Chicago, 81%
Massachusetts Institute of Technology, 77%
Harding University (AR), 71%
Princeton University (NJ), 70%
University of Pennsylvania, 70%
Yale University (CT), 69%
Dartmouth College (NH), 64%
Gallaudet University (DC), 63%
Columbia University (NY), 62%
Brown University (RI), 61%
Keiser University (FL), 61%
Yeshiva University (NY), 61%
Cornell University (NY), 60%
University of Notre Dame (IN), 58%
Georgia Southern University, 56%
University of Texas—Rio Grande Valley, 56%
Kennesaw State University (GA), 55%
Northwestern University (IL), 55%
Duke University (NC), 54%
William Carey University (MS), 50%
For me Northwestern juiced their yield by not admitting me because they figured I would attend (the) University of Illinois with a tuition of less than $1500 vs. Northwestern who was charging near $10,000 in 1977.
I called asking about my admittance when my Illinois application was lost at (the) University of Missouri. They asked me point blank if I wasn't planning to go to U of I and to call back if I didn't go there.
NW never admitted nor rejected me as far as I can remember.
Quote from: ugarteQuote from: martyQuote from: billhowardQuote from: martyIf Kodak were in the mix wouldn't it be less selective. How many Kodak engineers would be rejected?
George Eastman's money the U of R one of the best endowed schools in America, per capita, for much of the 20th century. It also spent R&D funds at RIT and Rochester and sent a lot of Kodak staff to RIT for grad degrees. The funding let RIT hire better profs, buy more equipment, make it a more desirable school. Now, pretty much no more Kodak: 80,000 down to ~6,000.
I'm just saying statistically if 99% of the Kodak folks get in the program that would mean it was less selective overall. Not arguing about the quality of the students or the program, just the silly statistic.
If the engineering school is more selective, which I'm guessing it still is, the current overall selectivity number might not reflect what many of us think of as RIT.
It's no Q.
only true if kodak isn't a destination company recruiting top candidates to work for it that it then sends to the local school. i would argue that for a long time kodak was one of those companies.
But I'm not talking about whether it truly is a selective school. I was only talking about the paradox that a 100% admission rate for Kodak folks would make their selectivity statistic worse, not better.
Quote from: martyBut I'm not talking about whether it truly is a selective school. I was only talking about the paradox that a 100% admission rate for Kodak folks would make their selectivity statistic worse, not better.
My bad. I was speaking of Kodak and probably Xerox people already with undergrad engineering or science degrees going for grad-level science, leadership or MBA work. No effect on undergrad stats. Some relatives benefitted greatly from those programs and so did Kodak. Apparently RIT did not offer courses on Designing Practical Consumer Applications for the Kodak-Invented 1975 CMOS-Sensor Digital Camera.
Quote from: Apparently RIT did not offer courses on Designing Practical Consumer Applications for the Kodak-Invented 1975 CMOS-Sensor Digital Camera.
Even before digital photography, Kodak took a hit when film processing was unbundled from film purchase and third-party processors entered the market, and when Fuji and others began capturing market share. I'm of the age where I read D&C obits and am amazed how many of those folks had worked for Kodak. Simon and Garfunkel's
Kodachrome probably doesn't resonate at all with today's students or even with some younger eLynah posters.
.
Quote from: billhowardNo question RIT is a pretty good school. Maybe RIT joining ECAC will raise its profile with recruits. Atlantic Hockey where RIT resides now has 10 schools and other than Army and Air Force, the only other school you think as a name sports school is Holy Cross. RIT has 17,000 undergraduate students; the others have 1,700 (AIC) to 4,400 (Army, Air Force). Academically, RIT is at 117 in the US News Top National Universities, Clarkson is 127, RPI is 55, Quinnipiac is 148. St. Lawrence is ranked among Liberal Arts schools, #57, where Union is #50. So RIT's entree would not water down the league, if that is a quote concern.
Atlantic Hockey is Air Force, AIC, Army, Bentley, Canisius, Holy Cross, Mercyhurst, Niagara, RIT, Sacred Heart. Used to include Iona, Fairfield and Robert Morris, all dropped hockey; Quinnipiac to ECAC 2005, UConn to Hockey East 2014.
RIT already plays its other (D3) sports in the Liberty League with Clarkson, SLU, RPI and Union (plus Hobart & William Smith, U of R, Bard, Vassar and Skidmore).
Quote from: martyQuote from: ugarteQuote from: martyQuote from: billhowardQuote from: martyIf Kodak were in the mix wouldn't it be less selective. How many Kodak engineers would be rejected?
George Eastman's money the U of R one of the best endowed schools in America, per capita, for much of the 20th century. It also spent R&D funds at RIT and Rochester and sent a lot of Kodak staff to RIT for grad degrees. The funding let RIT hire better profs, buy more equipment, make it a more desirable school. Now, pretty much no more Kodak: 80,000 down to ~6,000.
I'm just saying statistically if 99% of the Kodak folks get in the program that would mean it was less selective overall. Not arguing about the quality of the students or the program, just the silly statistic.
If the engineering school is more selective, which I'm guessing it still is, the current overall selectivity number might not reflect what many of us think of as RIT.
It's no Q.
only true if kodak isn't a destination company recruiting top candidates to work for it that it then sends to the local school. i would argue that for a long time kodak was one of those companies.
But I'm not talking about whether it truly is a selective school. I was only talking about the paradox that a 100% admission rate for Kodak folks would make their selectivity statistic worse, not better.
well, fine, but that's a definition of selectivity only relevant to people reading USNWR like it's the bible
Quote from: ugarteQuote from: martyQuote from: ugarteQuote from: martyQuote from: billhowardQuote from: martyIf Kodak were in the mix wouldn't it be less selective. How many Kodak engineers would be rejected?
George Eastman's money the U of R one of the best endowed schools in America, per capita, for much of the 20th century. It also spent R&D funds at RIT and Rochester and sent a lot of Kodak staff to RIT for grad degrees. The funding let RIT hire better profs, buy more equipment, make it a more desirable school. Now, pretty much no more Kodak: 80,000 down to ~6,000.
I'm just saying statistically if 99% of the Kodak folks get in the program that would mean it was less selective overall. Not arguing about the quality of the students or the program, just the silly statistic.
If the engineering school is more selective, which I'm guessing it still is, the current overall selectivity number might not reflect what many of us think of as RIT.
It's no Q.
only true if kodak isn't a destination company recruiting top candidates to work for it that it then sends to the local school. i would argue that for a long time kodak was one of those companies.
But I'm not talking about whether it truly is a selective school. I was only talking about the paradox that a 100% admission rate for Kodak folks would make their selectivity statistic worse, not better.
well, fine, but that's a definition of selectivity only relevant to people reading USNWR like it's the bible
I think the engineering school is likely more competitive and selective than the rest of the school but I have no evidence. No matter as RIT is a better fit than Q in the ECAC.
Can Q move to the AHL?
Quote from: martyQuote from: ugarteQuote from: martyQuote from: ugarteQuote from: martyQuote from: billhowardQuote from: martyIf Kodak were in the mix wouldn't it be less selective. How many Kodak engineers would be rejected?
George Eastman's money the U of R one of the best endowed schools in America, per capita, for much of the 20th century. It also spent R&D funds at RIT and Rochester and sent a lot of Kodak staff to RIT for grad degrees. The funding let RIT hire better profs, buy more equipment, make it a more desirable school. Now, pretty much no more Kodak: 80,000 down to ~6,000.
I'm just saying statistically if 99% of the Kodak folks get in the program that would mean it was less selective overall. Not arguing about the quality of the students or the program, just the silly statistic.
If the engineering school is more selective, which I'm guessing it still is, the current overall selectivity number might not reflect what many of us think of as RIT.
It's no Q.
only true if kodak isn't a destination company recruiting top candidates to work for it that it then sends to the local school. i would argue that for a long time kodak was one of those companies.
But I'm not talking about whether it truly is a selective school. I was only talking about the paradox that a 100% admission rate for Kodak folks would make their selectivity statistic worse, not better.
well, fine, but that's a definition of selectivity only relevant to people reading USNWR like it's the bible
No matter as RIT is a better fit than Q in the ECAC.
Why? I don't understand this concept.
Quote from: martyCan Q move to the AHL?
Q is destined for HE. It's just a matter of time. Then we'll pick up RIT or Holy Cross or Army will take another run at it.
Rit Getting scholies will help their hockey profile i suspect
Quote from: billhowardQuote from: upprdeckas many of the ivy kids apply to several of the schools its not really selective anyway.. if 50K apply to the same 5 schools and they all take 10K it looks like each school only accepts 20% of applicants.. but is that really reflective of what happened.
Sometimes when I think about admissions rates, selectivity, and yields, I'm never sure if cause and effect get confused.
This is my take on the historical trend:
-- Smart boomers & early early millennials, 1-1/2 to 2 generations ago, apply to ~6 schools: 2 Ivy-class, 2 good, 2 safety. Paper documentation is a pain to do even a half-dozen, and the guidance counselor counsels against making more work for him or her.
-- Computers happen, easy to apply to more schools, applications jump to 10? 12? for smart students or students with nervous parents
-- Good schools admit smaller fraction of applicants knowing higher fraction of admits who were reach-applicants will accept the best school they get in to
-- Yield becomes a better measure of selectivity
-- Some good schools may deny admission to overqualified admit suspecting they won't attend, so even the yield number can be tinkered with.
US News says 2020 admit rates for the eight Ivies was 7.6%. For all other national universities it was 68.3%, nine times as much. Early admissions applicants are admitted at an 18.1% rate vs. 55.1% for non-Ivy nationals. For most but not all Ivies, an early decision acceptance is bindjng, so there's no loss to other schools.
What happens at Cornell has a big impact on Ivy League admits because Cornell educates a quarter of the 15,000 students entering the Ivies each year and that will go up a bit higher when all the new North Campus dorms come online.
There are only two dozen schools that have a yield of 50% or better. Harvard is at 82% and Cornell is at 60%; the other Ivies are in between. A number of high-yield schools are religious and Gallaudet is for deaf and hearing-impaired. They are many, many more schools with yields of 10% or less. Quinnipiac is at 11%.
Harvard University (MA), 82%
Stanford University (CA), 82%
Brigham Young University—Provo (UT), 81%
University of Chicago, 81%
Massachusetts Institute of Technology, 77%
Harding University (AR), 71%
Princeton University (NJ), 70%
University of Pennsylvania, 70%
Yale University (CT), 69%
Dartmouth College (NH), 64%
Gallaudet University (DC), 63%
Columbia University (NY), 62%
Brown University (RI), 61%
Keiser University (FL), 61%
Yeshiva University (NY), 61%
Cornell University (NY), 60%
University of Notre Dame (IN), 58%
Georgia Southern University, 56%
University of Texas—Rio Grande Valley, 56%
Kennesaw State University (GA), 55%
Northwestern University (IL), 55%
Duke University (NC), 54%
William Carey University (MS), 50%
What does "yield" mean? Percent of accepted applications that actually enroll?
And just for the record, this Boomer/Gen-Xer applied to 7 schools: 4 Ivies (Cornell, Penn, Harvard, Yale), 2 good schools (Tufts, Lehigh), and one safety (Penn State). I got into all but Harvard and Yale...but I applied to them simply to reject them. I had no intent of going to either.
Quote from: TrotskyQuote from: martyCan Q move to the AHL?
Q is destined for HE. It's just a matter of time. Then we'll pick up RIT or Holy Cross or Army will take another run at it.
The other AHL. American not Atlantic.
Quote from: Jeff Hopkins '82What does "yield" mean? Percent of accepted applications that actually enroll?
Exactly that. I don't know how early decision candidates are treated; I assume they count as part of the yield because they do attend. Maybe there's another stat — yield excerpting early-admits.