These aren't just MSG, but I wanted to start the thread anyway.
The Sun has 2 new reports. Funny what a winning team will do for you.
Men's Hockey Notebook: Strong Goaltending and Impressive Depth Power Cornell to 8-0 Record (https://cornellsun.com/2019/11/24/mens-hockey-notebook-strong-goaltending-and-impressive-depth-power-cornell-to-8-0-record/)
Making Annual Return to Ithaca, Class of '81 'Old Guys' Earn Celebrity Status at Lynah Rink (https://cornellsun.com/2019/11/24/making-annual-return-to-ithaca-class-of-81-old-guys-earn-celebrity-status-at-lynah-rink/)
Y'all probably know this, but there are a lot of class-year events and/or classes of the decade of the ___s. Good stuff. Red Hot Hockey is also great for current students who love their parents but just need to get out of the goddamn house for a while. Only so much of Larchmont or Livingston you can take.
Quote from: billhowardRed Hot Hockey is also great for current students who love their parents but just need to get out of the goddamn house for a while
And vice versa! :-)
BU hosting Sacred Heart tonight. Pioneers lead 1-0 in the first.
sacred heart has some pretty solid offensive players.
only caught the 3rd period, but man BU looked horrible for those 20 minutes. 4-0 final
really a game we need to win with BU not really being that good.
I didn't realize until now that Harvard's only game before Lynah East is also BU.
Harvard hosts BC on Friday, so they actually have 2 games. BC is also the only HEA team that would have an at-large bid as of today
Quote from: IcebergHarvard hosts BC on Friday, so they actually have 2 games
Whoops. Missed that.
The Sun previews Red Hot Hockey Preview: No. 2 Cornell Set to Take on Boston University at Madison Square Garden (https://cornellsun.com/2019/11/27/red-hot-hockey-preview-no-2-cornell-set-to-take-on-boston-university-at-madison-square-garden/)
CBR announces #2 Men's Hockey Prepares For Red Hot Hockey Match-Up vs. BU (https://cornellbigred.com/news/2019/11/27/-2-mens-hockey-prepares-for-red-hot-hockey-match-up-vs-bu.aspx)
and that Off The Crossbar: Squad Goal Of Pouring It On Pays Dividends (https://cornellbigred.com/news/2019/11/27/off-the-crossbar-squad-goal-of-pouring-it-on-pays-dividends.aspx)
USCHO says it's podcast is Boston University vs. No. 2 Cornell at MSG preview with Terriers coach Albie O'Connell: Game of the Week Podcast Season 2 Episode 9 (https://www.uscho.com/2019/11/27/boston-university-vs-no-2-cornell-at-msg-preview-with-terriers-coach-albie-oconnell-game-of-the-week-podcast-season-2-episode-9/)
Meanwhile CHN thinks Northeastern vs. Colgate/Princeton (https://www.collegehockeynews.com/news/2019/11/28_College-Hockey-This-Week-.php) is more important than MSG.
Quote from: Jim HylaMeanwhile CHN thinks Northeastern vs. Colgate/Princeton (https://www.collegehockeynews.com/news/2019/11/28_College-Hockey-This-Week-.php) is more important than MSG.
Boy, you really got us there.
Video stream on stadium is confirmed. The Patriot league network mention in the article brings you to stadium.
https://cornellbigred.com/news/2019/11/27/-2-mens-hockey-prepares-for-red-hot-hockey-match-up-vs-bu.aspx
Quote#2 Men's Hockey Prepares For Red Hot Hockey Match-Up vs. BU
11/27/2019 2:00:00 PM
ITHACA, N.Y. — Off to the program's best start in 48 years and ranked second in both major national polls, the Cornell men's hockey team will take to the big stage on Saturday for Red Hot Hockey — a game against Boston University at Madison Square Garden in New York. Faceoff is set for shortly after 8 p.m., and the game will be streamed for free on the Patriot League Network. Featuring the call of Jason Weinstein (play-by-play) and Tony Eisenhut '88 (color commentary), the game can also be heard on WHCU (870 AM, 97.7 FM) and worldwide through the station's website.
Quote from: adamwQuote from: Jim HylaMeanwhile CHN thinks Northeastern vs. Colgate/Princeton (https://www.collegehockeynews.com/news/2019/11/28_College-Hockey-This-Week-.php) is more important than MSG.
Boy, you really got us there.
Adam's sarcasm is warranted. CHN's weekly podcast (https://www.collegehockeynews.com/ontheair/) pays due respect to both MSG and the historic red hot rivalry.
Quote from: SwampyQuote from: adamwQuote from: Jim HylaMeanwhile CHN thinks Northeastern vs. Colgate/Princeton (https://www.collegehockeynews.com/news/2019/11/28_College-Hockey-This-Week-.php) is more important than MSG.
Boy, you really got us there.
Adam's sarcasm is warranted. CHN's weekly podcast (https://www.collegehockeynews.com/ontheair/) pays due respect to both MSG and the historic red hot rivalry.
Sure, but somehow they didn't list our game as one of the "top" ones of the weekend & in the ECAC section Brown vs Providence is the only listing.
So they deserved a little jab, that's all.
Anyway I'll probably bump into Adam at MSG. After all he said in his podcast that it was where he was going. He can smack me then. :)
BU finally posts Terriers Head to NYC to Face No. 2 Cornell at Red Hot Hockey (https://goterriers.com/news/2019/11/29/mens-ice-hockey-terriers-head-to-nyc-to-face-no-2-cornell-at-red-hot-hockey.aspx)
USCHO game of the week.
https://www.uscho.com/2019/11/29/uscho-game-of-the-week-cornell-boston-university-set-to-clash-in-red-hot-hockey-event-at-madison-square-garden/
Quote from: JasonN95USCHO game of the week.
https://www.uscho.com/2019/11/29/uscho-game-of-the-week-cornell-boston-university-set-to-clash-in-red-hot-hockey-event-at-madison-square-garden/
The USCHO ECAC picks give (https://www.uscho.com/2019/11/28/ecac-hockey-picks-nov-29-dec-3/) Cornell the win, 4-1 or 5-2.
While the Hockey East pickers split (https://www.uscho.com/2019/11/28/hockey-east-picks-nov-29-dec-2/) with BU 3-2 or Cornell 4-2.
Quote from: Jim HylaSure, but somehow they didn't list our game as one of the "top" ones of the weekend & in the ECAC section Brown vs Providence is the only listing.
So they deserved a little jab, that's all.
Anyway I'll probably bump into Adam at MSG. After all he said in his podcast that it was where he was going. He can smack me then. :)
I'm a lover not a fighter.
For one, it's a miracle any college hockey coverage exists at all anymore.
For two, that list of top games comes from a simple algorithm, written by me, where it takes any games with two teams in the top 30 of the Pairwise, and then orders them based on combined Pairwise rank, descending. I think Colgate/Princeton must be in there as a glitch, where it's being counted as 0 - so I need to fix that. BU wouldn't qualify, since they are 38th - meaning that that game, in the national picture, is awful - really. Thanks to BU.
Quote from: adamwQuote from: Jim HylaSure, but somehow they didn't list our game as one of the "top" ones of the weekend & in the ECAC section Brown vs Providence is the only listing.
So they deserved a little jab, that's all.
Anyway I'll probably bump into Adam at MSG. After all he said in his podcast that it was where he was going. He can smack me then. :)
I'm a lover not a fighter.
For one, it's a miracle any college hockey coverage exists at all anymore.
For two, that list of top games comes from a simple algorithm, written by me, where it takes any games with two teams in the top 30 of the Pairwise, and then orders them based on combined Pairwise rank, descending. I think Colgate/Princeton must be in there as a glitch, where it's being counted as 0 - so I need to fix that. BU wouldn't qualify, since they are 38th - meaning that that game, in the national picture, is awful - really. Thanks to BU.
People like to complain. New Yorkers
really like to complain. Don't worry about it. (Also, move. The best thing about starting from ground zero is
anywhere else you go people are good to be with.)
Quote from: adamwQuote from: Jim HylaSure, but somehow they didn't list our game as one of the "top" ones of the weekend & in the ECAC section Brown vs Providence is the only listing.
So they deserved a little jab, that's all.
Anyway I'll probably bump into Adam at MSG. After all he said in his podcast that it was where he was going. He can smack me then. :)
I'm a lover not a fighter.
For one, it's a miracle any college hockey coverage exists at all anymore.
For two, that list of top games comes from a simple algorithm, written by me, where it takes any games with two teams in the top 30 of the Pairwise, and then orders them based on combined Pairwise rank, descending. I think Colgate/Princeton must be in there as a glitch, where it's being counted as 0 - so I need to fix that. BU wouldn't qualify, since they are 38th - meaning that that game, in the national picture, is awful - really. Thanks to BU.
At the risk of woofing, I figured our lack of inclusion had nothing to do with us and everything to do with BU's less than stellar performance so far.
NESN also thinks Colgate/Princeton in more important than BC/Harvard. The latter started at 4:30 PM, but NESN kept C/P, complete with post-game coaches' interviews, on until 5:00 PM, when there were less than 2 minutes left in Q1 of BC/H, and H led 1-0.
Quote from: SwampyNESN also thinks Colgate/Princeton in more important than BC/Harvard. The latter started at 4:30 PM, but NESN kept C/P, complete with post-game coaches' interviews, on until 5:00 PM, when there were less than 2 minutes left in Q1 of BC/H, and H led 1-0.
The fun part of that BC/H game is that Harvard led 2-0 with 2:30 left in the 2nd and hit the 2nd intermission behind. BC won 4-2, knocking H out of the ranks of the unbeaten teams.
Quote from: RichHQuote from: SwampyNESN also thinks Colgate/Princeton in more important than BC/Harvard. The latter started at 4:30 PM, but NESN kept C/P, complete with post-game coaches' interviews, on until 5:00 PM, when there were less than 2 minutes left in Q1 of BC/H, and H led 1-0.
The fun part of that BC/H game is that Harvard led 2-0 with 2:30 left in the 2nd and hit the 2nd intermission behind. BC won 4-2, knocking H out of the ranks of the unbeaten teams.
That's well past Vintage Harvard Bean Pot and into Vintage Harvard NC$$ Tournament.
Rats. I was hoping WE would be the ones to do that. Now they'll be more pumped to do US.
Quote from: TimVRats. I was hoping WE would be the ones to do that. Now they'll be more pumped to do US.
i do not think motivation would be much of a problem for an undefeated harvard - undefeated cornell game.
A video live stream link has magically appeared on the CHN scores page:
https://watchstadium.com/live/red-hot-hockey-boston-university-vs-cornell-at-madison-square-garden/
Quote from: TrotskyA video live stream link has magically appeared on the CHN scores page:
This link is to CBS Sports, which is currently showing the 1st period between RPI & Merrimack. It is ECAC v HE, but what happens at 8 PM?
Watch Stadium feed is up and running
Quote from: Cop at LynahWatch Stadium feed is up and running
Thanks for tracking this. LGR!
I'm getting some BU show. Anyone getting the game?
Quote from: JasonN95I'm getting some BU show. Anyone getting the game?
Nope. Field hockey. What junk.
I'm seeing the game now - just underway.
Decent video feed. Announcers are a different story.
Interlacing is pretty wild on this feed, but it's not half bad.
Quote from: toddloseDecent video feed. Announcers are a different story.
Surprisingly homerish. But one of them does seem to know hockey. When he's not making cracks about how BU can take advantage of Cornell's style, he's making informative points about individual and team strategies.
Quote from: SwampyQuote from: toddloseDecent video feed. Announcers are a different story.
Surprisingly homerish. But one of them does seem to know hockey. When he's not making cracks about how BU can take advantage of Cornell's style, he's making informative points about individual and team strategies.
It's the BU feed, not a neutral call.
The color guy can be on
any cast I listen to. I've learned more about hockey tactics in an hour than in 30 years. He's like Jimmy Pearson from the old Bruins TV casts. The PBP gives a clean call except for the mispronunciations and Bostonians always sound like their IQs are in single digits anyway.
Quote from: TrotskyQuote from: SwampyQuote from: toddloseDecent video feed. Announcers are a different story.
Surprisingly homerish. But one of them does seem to know hockey. When he's not making cracks about how BU can take advantage of Cornell's style, he's making informative points about individual and team strategies.
It's the BU feed, not a neutral call.
The color guy can be on any cast I listen to. I've learned more about hockey tactics in an hour than in 30 years. He's like Jimmy Pearson from the old Bruins TV casts. The PBP gives a clean call except for the mispronunciations and Bostonians always sound like their IQs are in single digits anyway.
When I said homerish, I meant relative to their obvious professionalism. But their monotone announcing will never get them to the Stanley Cup.
Quote from: SwampyWhen I said homerish, I meant relative to their obvious professionalism. But their monotone announcing will never get them to the Stanley Cup.
I love their style. I can't stand the standard screaming routine the hacks employ.
Quote from: TrotskyQuote from: SwampyWhen I said homerish, I meant relative to their obvious professionalism. But their monotone announcing will never get them to the Stanley Cup.
I love their style. I can't stand the standard screaming routine the hacks employ.
Like I said, they'll never announce the Stanley Cup.
Quote from: SwampyQuote from: TrotskyQuote from: SwampyWhen I said homerish, I meant relative to their obvious professionalism. But their monotone announcing will never get them to the Stanley Cup.
I love their style. I can't stand the standard screaming routine the hacks employ.
Like I said, they'll never announce the Stanley Cup.
Success is the cultivation of excellence. Everything else is interruption.
CBR relates that Galajda's Shutout Leads #2 Men's Hockey To Red Hot Hockey Win Over BU (https://cornellbigred.com/news/2019/11/30/mens-ice-hockey-red-hot-hockey-recap.aspx)
The Sun agrees with Galajda Earns First Shutout, Leads No. 2 Men's Hockey to 2-0 Victory Over B.U. at Madison Square Garden (https://cornellsun.com/2019/11/30/galajda-earns-first-shutout-leads-no-2-mens-hockey-to-2-0-victory-over-boston-university-at-madison-square-garden/)
BU laments that Terriers Edged by No. 2 Cornell, 2-0, at Red Hot Hockey (https://goterriers.com/news/2019/11/30/mens-ice-hockey-terriers-edged-by-no-2-cornell-2-0-at-red-hot-hockey.aspx)
Adam writes in CHN that Another Big 2nd Lifts Cornell over BU at MSG (https://www.collegehockeynews.com/news/2019/12/01_Another-Big-2nd-Lifts-Cornell.php)
And USCHO reports on their GOTW: Behind 28-save shutout by Galajda, Cornell prevails in Red Hot Hockey at MSG, 2-0 (https://www.uscho.com/2019/11/30/gotw-behind-28-save-shutout-by-galajda-cornell-prevails-in-red-hot-hockey-at-msg-2-0/)
For lack of a better place to put this, I'll add it here: This weekend was a bloodbath for the league. 2-8-1 in non-conference games versus non-conference foes by my count (the other win was Q over UMass Amherst).
Quote from: JasonN95For lack of a better place to put this, I'll add it here: This weekend was a bloodbath for the league. 2-8-1 in non-conference games versus non-conference foes by my count (the other win was Q over UMass Amherst).
We (the ECAC) also are now the proud owners of 6 of the bottom 9 slots is USCHO's KRACH. Putrescence.
https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-alan-hahn-show/id1294697179#episodeGuid=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.espn.com%2Fespnradio%2Fpodcast%3Fid%3D28453212
Mike Richter and Alan Hahn (ESPN NY Radio) talking up college hockey in general (and Yale/Harvard specifically) a bit past the 8 minute mark. They gave props to Cornell's Thanksgiving MSG games. Though Hahn then gives Wisconsin fans credit for the "sieve," "It's all your fault" chants and the newspapers. He didn't say they invented it, but kind of implied.... did they?
Quote from: jeff '84https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-alan-hahn-show/id1294697179#episodeGuid=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.espn.com%2Fespnradio%2Fpodcast%3Fid%3D28453212
Mike Richter and Alan Hahn (ESPN NY Radio) talking up college hockey in general (and Yale/Harvard specifically) a bit past the 8 minute mark. They gave props to Cornell's Thanksgiving MSG games. Though Hahn then gives Wisconsin fans credit for the "sieve," "It's all your fault" chants and the newspapers. He didn't say they invented it, but kind of implied.... did they?
They certainly didn't start the newspaper cheers. I did. I stole it from the University of Scranton basketball fans, who would shake newspapers behind the basket when the opposition shot free throws. I found out about it when I was home for Christmas break in 80 or 81. There was an article in the local paper that the U of S coach wanted it to stop because it was bad sportsmanship.
The sieve cheer was already being done when I arrived on campus in 78. We also threw kitchen strainers, but that later stopped because of delay of game penalties.
I first heard "It's all your fault" at LP, I believe in the late 90's. Not sure where it came from.
I also heard an interesting one at the VGK game. After they scored, they first told the opposition goalie he sucked (a few times). After that, they started a "Fleury's better!" cheer. We should try a "Galajda's better!" cheer.
Quote from: Jeff Hopkins '82I first heard "It's all your fault" at LP, I believe in the late 90's. Not sure where it came from.
IAYF was done at Lynah before that. IIRC the first time I heard it was at a Beanpot in the 80s and it was already established enough that the whole BU crowd did it (only one repetition, however). The Boston schools may have picked it up after an NC$$ game in the West. I wouldn't be surprised if it was Wisco: they were the Lynah crowd of the West in the 70s.
The only cheers I know for sure I heard born were "Fight, Maim, Kill," at Lynah, which began in our section (C when it was still students) circa 1984, and the "Black Hole" cheer which I hate to admit was birthed by Harvard (Sucks) during their dominant period in the mid 80s, though with a different cadence.
I believe the "sieve" cheer goes back to the Maple Leafs in the 1960s, or even earlier, and
they may have stolen it from Ontario youth hockey or even pond hockey. It's as old as the hills.
Thanks guys.
wasnt that cheer done in the 70s for lax games?
Quote from: upprdeckwasnt that cheer done in the 70s for lax games?
IAYF or sieve?
I remember learning "sieve, sieve, sieve" when I attended my first games in the fall of 70. I didn't understand was what was being chanted and the literalist side of my brain still finds the analogy a bit off.
Quote from: martyQuote from: upprdeckwasnt that cheer done in the 70s for lax games?
IAYF or sieve?
I remember learning "sieve, sieve, sieve" when I attended my first games in the fall of 70. I didn't understand was what was being chanted and the literalist side of my brain still finds the analogy a bit off.
I know, right? Wouldn't a sieve stop pucks?
Quote from: DafatoneQuote from: martyQuote from: upprdeckwasnt that cheer done in the 70s for lax games?
IAYF or sieve?
I remember learning "sieve, sieve, sieve" when I attended my first games in the fall of 70. I didn't understand was what was being chanted and the literalist side of my brain still finds the analogy a bit off.
I know, right? Wouldn't a sieve stop pucks?
Depends on the mesh size.::wank::
i thought the cheer was the same thing.
used to count the goals, say its all your fault. then end with sieve sieve sieve.
Quote from: upprdecki thought the cheer was the same thing.
used to count the goals, say its all your fault. then end with sieve sieve sieve.
Nope - count goals, say "sieve" a few times, then "it's all your fault." I'm pretty sure that in my 33 seasons it's never been the other way around.
Quote from: martyQuote from: upprdeckwasnt that cheer done in the 70s for lax games?
IAYF or sieve? I remember learning "sieve, sieve, sieve" when I attended my first games in the fall of 70. I didn't understand was what was being chanted and the literalist side of my brain still finds the analogy a bit off.
Too literal. Stuff drains through a sieve, even if the pasta doesn't. A roof leaks like a sieve.
Shelly Berman, the abrasive comic whose heydeys were in the era of vinyl record comedy albums, has a sketch about a philosophy major at the University of Chicago who looks at a glass of water, says, "This is a glass of water. But why is this a glass of water? ... and eventually the dumb kid dies of thirst."
Quote from: martyQuote from: upprdeckwasnt that cheer done in the 70s for lax games?
IAYF or sieve?
12
I remember learning "sieve, sieve, sieve" when I attended my first games in the fall of 70. I didn't understand was what was being chanted and the literalist side of my brain still finds the analogy a bit off.
I can attest that I don't remember either IAYF or sieve during the late 60s. I do remember chanting, "1, 2, 3, 4, ..., we want more!" Of course, a team must be winning by scores like 12-2 (http://www.tbrw.info/seasons/1967/1967_Schedule.html) for such cheers to be apropos. Perhaps there's a relationship between Cornell's declining average margin of victory and this cheer's replacement.
Are any of you out there U of Chicago grads willing to address this philosophical question?
Quote from: Trotsky...
The only cheers I know for sure I heard born were "Fight, Maim, Kill," at Lynah, which began in our section (C when it was still students) circa 1984, and the "Black Hole" cheer which I hate to admit was birthed by Harvard (Sucks) during their dominant period in the mid 80s, though with a different cadence.
I believe the "sieve" cheer goes back to the Maple Leafs in the 1960s, or even earlier, and they may have stolen it from Ontario youth hockey or even pond hockey. It's as old as the hills.
You raise an excellent point. I'm surprised in all these years there's been no taunt combining the suckiness of opposing goalies and Harvard: sort of like the "Screw BU (http://www.elynah.com/?cheers#Screw)" cheer. This is especially puzzling because we're not the only school that maintains Harvard Sucks (http://www.harvardsucks.org/), and there must be some probability law that the probability of an event increases as the number of sites where it can occur increases.
Are any of you out there MIT grads willing to address this mathematical question?
Quote from: DafatoneI know, right? Wouldn't a sieve stop pucks?
I felt the same way about the "black hole" cheer against the opposing goalie...do the fans still do this one? "You're not a sieve, you're a vacuum. You're not a vacuum, you're a black hole. You're not a black hole, YOU JUST SUCK." Ok, I get it, black holes do suck, but wouldn't they also gobble up the puck and not allow it to escape? I know, I'm being too literal.
Wisconsin used the sieve cheer to great effect in the 3rd period of the 1973 NCAA semifinal in the Boston Garden. I recall being a bit intimidated...
Quote from: 75erWisconsin used the sieve cheer to great effect in the 3rd period of the 1973 NCAA semifinal in the Boston Garden. I recall being a bit intimidated...
Agreed. It was an eerie sound. Each "sieve" was drawn out in a long, haunting wail, like an accusing ghost, not the the staccato "Sieve, sieve, sieve" that Cornell students adopted.
Quote from: 75erWisconsin used the sieve cheer to great effect in the 3rd period of the 1973 NCAA semifinal in the Boston Garden. I recall being a bit intimidated...
We should take a pole of how many eLynahites were at that game. And it might bring a psychological question into the mix:
"Would I be an obsessed half-crazed fan if Cornell had won that championship or has my thirst for that crown fostered the 47 (or 50+) year fandom and which also brings me great pleasure? "
Quote from: 75erWisconsin used the sieve cheer to great effect in the 3rd period of the 1973 NCAA semifinal in the Boston Garden. I recall being a bit intimidated...
Like Cornell-Syracuse lacrosse 2009, it was a game that never happened. How can you be up 5-2 early in the third of the stronger NCAA semifinal bracket ... and lose in OT? As with lax in 2009, you wonder how Cornell's fortunes would have been better winning the hockey title. That would have been three titles in seven years. Instead, it's two titles in 53 years.
I was there. I was in the press box, which was at the front of the balcony, and the press box shook when the fans got excited. When they stomped their feet, you hoped the construction contractor was not the lowest bidder. OTOH, I love playing in Lake Placid. If we can't have Boston Garden - TD Whatever today - then for the ECAC to be in a winter wonderland (plus mud in March) setting is fabulous. (It's also good that Cornell this year is playing in two 15,000-20,000 seat arenas to prep them for the possibility of Little Caesars in the FF this April.)
If you're out 25-plus years, you have the feeling that all this was yesterday. If you're a student or out less than 5 years, you believe anything that happened before your Cornell years is not worth remembering, knowing, or hearing old farts reminisce about. I barely cared about the heroics of QB Gary Wood 10 years earlier, let alone beating Michigan (in football, not hockey) 25 years before my time, let alone the national championship teams 50 years earlier.
Quote from: billhowardThat would have been three titles in seven years. Instead, it's two titles in 53 years.
Mathematically not correct. If we had won, and I was there as well, it likely would have been 3 titles in 53 years.
Now maybe winning a third title would have changed everything, but I doubt it.
Since the glory years of CU hockey, aka Harkness time, our current coach has gotten us the closest to our goal.
Unlike some of our former teams that he's coached, this year's team needs a great goalie, but is much more than a team with a great goalie.
We can hope he brings us to 4/54, and that he then stays around.
Was Cornell under Bertrand perceived as less of an attractive option for a blue chippah than Cornell under Harkness? A title under Bertrand might have changed that.
For that matter, did some of Dick's legendary ill humor come from having to constantly live in The Shadow of God? A title all his own would have taken that pressure off and perhaps allowed him to lighten up Francis. Look at how much better a coach Mike is now that he has seasoned.
Quote from: Trotsky.....For that matter, did some of Dick's legendary ill humor come from having to constantly live in The Shadow of God?
I don't think Dick ever got over his "Ned complex" When Ned was coaching Union, I once asked Dick when Cornell was going to play Union, he almost growled his answer at me: "when they go division one!".... It was clear that I had hit a nerve....
Quote from: TrotskyLook at how much better a coach Mike is now that he has seasoned.
With his seamless conversion from the rough & tumble teams of a few years ago, to the marvelous teams we're seeing today, Shafer is looking more like a genius each year. Simply amazing!!
Quote from: TrotskyWas Cornell under Bertrand perceived as less of an attractive option for a blue chippah than Cornell under Harkness? A title under Bertrand might have changed that.
For that matter, did some of Dick's legendary ill humor come from having to constantly live in The Shadow of God? A title all his own would have taken that pressure off and perhaps allowed him to lighten up Francis. Look at how much better a coach Mike is now that he has seasoned.
If you talk to any of Harkness's players, I think you'll hear that anyone else would have been less attractive. The feeling that I've always gotten from them is that they would do anything for him.
I have no idea whether Coach Bertrand would have softened if he had won in '73. I'd assume it would have helped and that maybe losing like we did had the opposite effect.
Yes living in "The Shadow of God" must have been difficult, however he wasn't overly successful after leaving CU either.
Simply, we'll never know what might have been, but I'll stick with my original opinion.
Quote from: Jim HylaQuote from: TrotskyWas Cornell under Bertrand perceived as less of an attractive option for a blue chippah than Cornell under Harkness? A title under Bertrand might have changed that.
For that matter, did some of Dick's legendary ill humor come from having to constantly live in The Shadow of God? A title all his own would have taken that pressure off and perhaps allowed him to lighten up Francis. Look at how much better a coach Mike is now that he has seasoned.
If you talk to any of Harkness's players, I think you'll hear that anyone else would have been less attractive. The feeling that I've always gotten from them is that they would do anything for him.
I have no idea whether Coach Bertrand would have softened if he had won in '73. I'd assume it would have helped and that maybe losing like we did had the opposite effect.
Yes living in "The Shadow of God" must have been difficult, however he wasn't overly successful after leaving CU either.
Simply, we'll never know what might have been, but I'll stick with my original opinion.
The story I heard was that Ned had some amazing pipelines for recruiting in Canada. Bertrand very quickly earned a reputation among the players that hampered recruiting and kind of ended that pipeline. Specifically, the expression I heard was "Dick Bertrand...before he dicks you." not original, of course, but still captures the sentiment.
Quote from: Jeff Hopkins '82Quote from: Jim HylaQuote from: TrotskyWas Cornell under Bertrand perceived as less of an attractive option for a blue chippah than Cornell under Harkness? A title under Bertrand might have changed that.
For that matter, did some of Dick's legendary ill humor come from having to constantly live in The Shadow of God? A title all his own would have taken that pressure off and perhaps allowed him to lighten up Francis. Look at how much better a coach Mike is now that he has seasoned.
If you talk to any of Harkness's players, I think you'll hear that anyone else would have been less attractive. The feeling that I've always gotten from them is that they would do anything for him.
I have no idea whether Coach Bertrand would have softened if he had won in '73. I'd assume it would have helped and that maybe losing like we did had the opposite effect.
Yes living in "The Shadow of God" must have been difficult, however he wasn't overly successful after leaving CU either.
Simply, we'll never know what might have been, but I'll stick with my original opinion.
The story I heard was that Ned had some amazing pipelines for recruiting in Canada. Bertrand very quickly earned a reputation among the players that hampered recruiting and kind of ended that pipeline. Specifically, the expression I heard was "Dick Bertrand...before he dicks you." not original, of course, but still captures the sentiment.
Of course recruiting on average 3x the number of players you need as sophomores to fill out a freshman team might lead a decent number of recruits to deduce they've been hosed. Eh?
I wrote a couple stories for the Sun on friction between Bertrand and the players.
Bertrand was not well liked by the players. But then that was the whole point of Miracle the movie: the players rallied around their dislike of Herb Brooks and came home with Olympic gold. The 1972 team rallied against Bertrand to get clobbered in the ECAC finals and NCAA finals by BU, then next year pulled one of the all-time frozen four collapses in that 6-5 OT loss to Wisconsin after Bill Murray (I think it was, sort of Douglas Murray a generation darlier, put us up 5-2 start of the third.)
There are a LOT of coaches not liked by players, perhaps less now than 1-2 generations ago.
Whether or not he was disliked for good reason, Bertrand had things stacked against him. He was a 29-year-old senior and captain. Ex Toronto cop. No coaching experience. Harkness thought Bertrand was the idea successor with zero coaching experience. That Bob Kane '34 let Harkness name Bertrand head coach, or that Kane did it himself, suggests you can be too long in one position: 1944-1971 as director of athletics, then kicked upstairs for 5 years 1971-1976 as dean of athletics, suggested lack of oversight from Day Hall. (Kane also spent a lot of time on US Olympic Committee business his last years.) Instead of Bertrand, Cornell probably could have intercepted the 1970 FF losing coach Len Ceglarski of Clarkson before he went to BC (his alma mater, true) two years later, or Jerry York, who replaced Ceglarski. In the sixties, Ceglarski's Clarkson was NCAA runnerup 3 times and made the FF a fourth time. Bertrand could have been an assistant for a couple years at Cornell, maybe then gone someplace else, then come back in 1980 as HC and done a decent job. Maybe even recruit Mike Schafer.
The years after Bertrand was installed, a) Harkness protege Richie Moran kicked ass and won the first ever NCAA lax playoff (as opposed to poll) and b) a series of 3 basketball coaches sunk Cornell lower and lower in Cayuga's waters. So maybe Kane and director of athletics Jon Anderson (a Dartmouth / Psi U jock turned Cornell financial aid officer then director of athletics and a generally nice guy) had other things to be proud of, and worried about. We (Daily Sun) ran a story in 1974 on how Cornell athletics was cheating on basketball admissions. Why the hell do you cheat if all you're going to do is end up 4 and 22, and get a story about you in Sports Illustrated? PS not to speak ill of the departed, but early 1970s coach Tony Coma's Wiki entry says he quit Cornell over a dispute about team discipline. It was the bad relations with the players, and the coach's personal shortcomings that affected his ability to perform his job that made Cornell move him out.
Quote from: billhowardI wrote a couple stories for the Sun on friction between Bertrand and the players.
Bertrand was not well liked by the players. But then that was the whole point of Miracle the movie: the players rallied around their dislike of and came home with Olympic gold. The 1972 team rallied against Bertrand to get clobbered in the ECAC finals and NCAA finals by BU, then next year pulled one of the all-time frozen four collapses in that 6-5 OT loss to Wisconsin after Bill Murray (I think it was, sort of Douglas Murray a generation darlier, put us up 5-2 start of the third.)
If you call a collapse losing an entire offensive line to injuries before the tournament, thereby necessitating playing the fourth line on a team that mostly relied on three.
And, if you call a collapse the over use of that fourth line by a coach who was afraid of the better rested Denver team that the winner had to face on Saturday (due to the Thursday- Friday semifinal schedule) then yes.
But I don't call it a collapse. I blame Bertrand's reliance on the fourth line to keep the lead. I'm not a Bertrand hater but HE lost that game.
Quote from: martyQuote from: billhowardI wrote a couple stories for the Sun on friction between Bertrand and the players.
Bertrand was not well liked by the players. But then that was the whole point of Miracle the movie: the players rallied around their dislike of and came home with Olympic gold. The 1972 team rallied against Bertrand to get clobbered in the ECAC finals and NCAA finals by BU, then next year pulled one of the all-time frozen four collapses in that 6-5 OT loss to Wisconsin after Bill Murray (I think it was, sort of Douglas Murray a generation darlier, put us up 5-2 start of the third.)
If you call a collapse losing an entire offensive line to injuries before the tournament, thereby necessitating playing the fourth line on a team that mostly relied on three.
And, if you call a collapse the over use of that fourth line by a coach who was afraid of the better rested Denver team that the winner had to face on Saturday (due to the Thursday- Friday semifinal schedule) then yes.
But I don't call it a collapse. I blame Bertrand's reliance on the fourth line to keep the lead. I'm not a Bertrand hater but HE lost that game.
Here's a different spin. I think that team clearly outplayed their talent level, played very hard in the games I saw ( winning the ECAC championship. the Wisconsin game and a couple of others). After a couple of really bad losses early in the year, they really turned it around. Wisconsin seemed to win all the face-offs toward the end of the game, and if we could have just gotten the puck out of the zone on one of the final third period face-offs (or even neutralize that last faceoff), we win the game. We also failed to convert on a 2 on 0 breakaway in the first overtime. Ironically, especially for me, freshman Dennis Olmstead was the player winning all the final minute face-offs for Wisconsin. Two seasons before, I had heard an interview with his dad, retired NHLer Bert Olmstead, and he mentioned that his son was interested in playing college hockey in the U.S. I then went into Dick's office and gave him that info and he said he'd follow up. I suspect Dick did, but if Olmstead didn't end up at Wisconsin, we win that game.
I agree with Marty but feel there are extenuating circumstances that mitigate the conclusion in his last sentence. I rode the team bus to and from the Denver-BC semifinal with Bertrand and the team and sat next to Dick at the game. Cornell had beaten BC by a goal for the ECAC championship the week before and we together watched Denver steamroll the Eagles 10-4 in a game that looked for all the world like men crushing boys.
Dick was already spooked by having to play the Friday night semifinal and not getting an extra day's rest before a potential championship game, so watching the Denver rout against a team that recently played Cornell close just exacerbated his angst. He took a calculated risk to best position his team for the final and came within five seconds...and a few lost faceoffs...of pulling it off. Unfortunate, for sure, but, having gotten a bit inside his head the night before, I understand why he did what he did.
You're up 4-0 in the second period. You're up 5-2 a minute into the third. Call the ensuing 19 minutes what you want, it was not pretty.
It wasn't just Cornell with a bad 1973 outcome. Denver, the Thursday night winner over BC and with an extra day to rest, got screwed after the tournament. Its record of tournament participation was "vacated" by the NCAA. In the 1960s and 1970s the NCAA was not happy what what it considered to be semi-professional Canadian juniors coming to the US to play. There was a rule that you lost eligibility for the NCAA tournament if you were much older than the normal 17-23 age cohort of the student body (exceptions for US military vets, Mormons doing missionary work as teens) and Bertrand was not allowed to play in the 1970 tournament. The NCAA in the 1970s essentially wanted every school to declare its Canadian juniors ineligible, then the NCAA would issue a papal dispensation restoring eligibility; Denver refused to go along with the charade and its official record of participation was blotted out.
The year before, Denver came into the tournament as the top seed in the West - the tournament effectively took two from the East and two from the West - and Cornell blew them out 7-2 in the semis (and then got chewed up by BU); the Cornell seniors had been freshmen the year Denver beat Cornell for the 1969 title. Those years were the last hurrah for Denver coach Murray Death Armstrong, who'd won five titles late 1950s through 1969.
Quote from: billhowardThose years were the last hurrah for Denver coach Murray Death, who'd won five titles late 1950s through 1969.
Murray Armstrong. Murray Death played for Ned.
Armstrong's 1960-61 team went 30-1-1, averaged 7.5 goals per game, and won the NCAAs. Five of the "west" first-team All-Americans were from Denver, joined by Michigan's Red Berenson.
While poking around, saw that Cornell hosted an Invitational tournament in December 1960 over three days and lost games to Norwich, Bowdoin and Williams. Even before my time. Woolly mammoths pulled the ice-resurfacing sled.
Since 1973 was a few years before my time, I'm enjoying the analysis of what must've been an excruciating game. I was in Foxboro in 2009, and I'm sure the Wisconsin game was equally awful.
I get that Yale is a probable draw to MSG but I do wish that game was always an OOC game.
Quote from: The RancorI get that Yale is a probable draw to MSG but I do wish that game was always an OOC game.
Plus, are they even?
I would think, in rough order:
Cornell
Penn State
BU
Princeton
Michigan
Yale
Notre Dame
Harvard
Army
Ohio State
Minnesota
Michigan State
Wisconsin
Vermont
Colgate
Northeastern
Personally, alternating BU and Michigan/Penn State would be fine by me.
I assume turning it into a holiday tournament has been explored an rejected as impractical. I would dearly love to see Cornell as the "New York City Team," setting up NC$$ regional hosting as well.
Quote from: TrotskyI would dearly love to see Cornell as the "New York City Team," setting up NC$$ regional hosting as well.
oh man. make it at barclays so i don't even have to cross a bridge.
Playing a neutral at MSG against a team we will play a minimum of twice per season anyway, seems like lazy scheduling. I'd think the big Western schools, Big 10 and Hockey East would be clamoring for a chance to play in New York.
Quote from: ugarteQuote from: TrotskyI would dearly love to see Cornell as the "New York City Team," setting up NC$$ regional hosting as well.
oh man. make it at barclays so i don't even have to cross a bridge.
It has to be The City so the flyovers are a-scurred they might see a black person and don't come.
Narrator: "It was college hockey. They would not see a black person."
Quote from: TrotskyQuote from: ugarteQuote from: TrotskyI would dearly love to see Cornell as the "New York City Team," setting up NC$$ regional hosting as well.
oh man. make it at barclays so i don't even have to cross a bridge.
It has to be The City so the flyovers are a-scurred they might see a black person and don't come.
Narrator: "It was college hockey. They would not see a black person."
There were POC working at the concession stands selling $15 beers. That alone would fuel a full year of stories to tell at the Ralph.
Quote from: RichHQuote from: TrotskyQuote from: ugarteQuote from: TrotskyI would dearly love to see Cornell as the "New York City Team," setting up NC$$ regional hosting as well.
oh man. make it at barclays so i don't even have to cross a bridge.
It has to be The City so the flyovers are a-scurred they might see a black person and don't come.
Narrator: "It was college hockey. They would not see a black person."
There were POC working at the concession stands selling $15 beers. That alone would fuel a full year of stories to tell at the Ralph.
"I could tell they were Mooslim because when they poured beer they wore
gloves."
Quote from: The RancorPlaying a neutral at MSG against a team we will play a minimum of twice per season anyway, seems like lazy scheduling. I'd think the big Western schools, Big 10 and Hockey East would be clamoring for a chance to play in New York.
Someone pointed out to me that the problem with the power 5 hockey schools is that they often have football games Thanksgiving weekend so it could be hard to get them to MSG for a hockey game (although that didn't stop PSU and Michigan in the past). But that would still leave some interesting opponents like Providence, NoDak, Denver and even Maine who can use MSG as a draw for their fans to spend Thanksgiving weekend in NYC. All of them would be a lot more interesting than a 3rd game with Yale.
Quote from: scoop85Quote from: The RancorPlaying a neutral at MSG against a team we will play a minimum of twice per season anyway, seems like lazy scheduling. I'd think the big Western schools, Big 10 and Hockey East would be clamoring for a chance to play in New York.
Someone pointed out to me that the problem with the power 5 hockey schools is that they often have football games Thanksgiving weekend so it could be hard to get them to MSG for a hockey game (although that didn't stop PSU and Michigan in the past). But that would still leave some interesting opponents like Providence, NoDak, Denver and even Maine who can use MSG as a draw for their fans to spend Thanksgiving weekend in NYC. All of them would be a lot more interesting than a 3rd game with Yale.
My assumption with Harvard a couple of years ago and Yale next year is that they were basically a last resort, after Coach Schafer had basically eliminated all other possibilities. Either that, or both Harvard and Yale offered Cornell money to let them be the opponent.
Quote from: BeeeejMy assumption with Harvard a couple of years ago and Yale next year is that they were basically a last resort, after Coach Schafer had basically eliminated all other possibilities. Either that, or both Harvard and Yale offered Cornell money to let them be the opponent.
Yeah, I think it's anything but "lazy scheduling." I think the model only really works with BU. And that would be OK with me, too. Keep it more special. Or... play BU every year.
TBH I'm surprised to see Yale and not Princeton, which IMO makes a lot more sense. Yale is a split allegiance between NYC and Boston. Princeton is NYC and, what? London? Butner Federal Correctional Institution?
Quote from: BeeeejQuote from: scoop85Quote from: The RancorPlaying a neutral at MSG against a team we will play a minimum of twice per season anyway, seems like lazy scheduling. I'd think the big Western schools, Big 10 and Hockey East would be clamoring for a chance to play in New York.
Someone pointed out to me that the problem with the power 5 hockey schools is that they often have football games Thanksgiving weekend so it could be hard to get them to MSG for a hockey game (although that didn't stop PSU and Michigan in the past). But that would still leave some interesting opponents like Providence, NoDak, Denver and even Maine who can use MSG as a draw for their fans to spend Thanksgiving weekend in NYC. All of them would be a lot more interesting than a 3rd game with Yale.
My assumption with Harvard a couple of years ago and Yale next year is that they were basically a last resort, after Coach Schafer had basically eliminated all other possibilities. Either that, or both Harvard and Yale offered Cornell money to let them be the opponent.
i don't think it takes a lot of money for Harvard and Yale to say "hey can we join your party." Both are close enough to NYC - and dump enough rich people into the local ticket buying pool - to make it an easy sell for both Cornell and MSG.
Quote from: ugarteQuote from: BeeeejQuote from: scoop85Quote from: The RancorPlaying a neutral at MSG against a team we will play a minimum of twice per season anyway, seems like lazy scheduling. I'd think the big Western schools, Big 10 and Hockey East would be clamoring for a chance to play in New York.
Someone pointed out to me that the problem with the power 5 hockey schools is that they often have football games Thanksgiving weekend so it could be hard to get them to MSG for a hockey game (although that didn't stop PSU and Michigan in the past). But that would still leave some interesting opponents like Providence, NoDak, Denver and even Maine who can use MSG as a draw for their fans to spend Thanksgiving weekend in NYC. All of them would be a lot more interesting than a 3rd game with Yale.
My assumption with Harvard a couple of years ago and Yale next year is that they were basically a last resort, after Coach Schafer had basically eliminated all other possibilities. Either that, or both Harvard and Yale offered Cornell money to let them be the opponent.
i don't think it takes a lot of money for Harvard and Yale to say "hey can we join your party." Both are close enough to NYC - and dump enough rich people into the local ticket buying pool - to make it an easy sell for both Cornell and MSG.
I think this hits the nail on the head. Not lazy Per-se, but HYP wanting in on the CU action.
Quote from: scoop85Since 1973 was a few years before my time, I'm enjoying the analysis of what must've been an excruciating game. I was in Foxboro in 2009, and I'm sure the Wisconsin game was equally awful.
And the more years since the game, the greater the chance to exaggerate, and who's still around to say you got it wrong.
When there was a score, the lower part of the balcony, the rows sticking out farthest, really shook. Also damn hot, and humid, inside. And Wisconsin deserves credit for sending something like two dozen buses of students and fans to the game.
Yes, the 1973 hockey loss was like the 2009 lax loss. The first time your team loses a huge game, it hangs with you. Our HS basketball team lost a NYS Sectional final on a buzzer shot from just inside the mid-court line. Which set me up for the Wisconsin game once at Cornell. And made the 2009 lax final disheartening but not as crushing as 1973 and Wisconsin.