Great profile on the Rangers' website (https://www.nhl.com/rangers/video/prospect-profile-morgan-barron/t-277437422/c-66677503). As a lifelong Rangers fan I would love him to make it to MSG.
Great! Thanks for sharing.
Quote from: scoop85Great profile on the Rangers' website (https://www.nhl.com/rangers/video/prospect-profile-morgan-barron/t-277437422/c-66677503). As a lifelong Rangers fan I would love him to make it to MSG.
As a nearly life-long Flyers fan, I'd like to see him playing for just about any team except the Rangers.
Quote from: Jeff Hopkins '82Quote from: scoop85Great profile on the Rangers' website (https://www.nhl.com/rangers/video/prospect-profile-morgan-barron/t-277437422/c-66677503). As a lifelong Rangers fan I would love him to make it to MSG.
As a nearly life-long Flyers fan, I'd like to see him playing for just about any team except the Rangers.
I'd like for this debate to not matter until late Spring of 2021.
Quote from: RichHQuote from: Jeff Hopkins '82Quote from: scoop85Great profile on the Rangers' website (https://www.nhl.com/rangers/video/prospect-profile-morgan-barron/t-277437422/c-66677503). As a lifelong Rangers fan I would love him to make it to MSG.
As a nearly life-long Flyers fan, I'd like to see him playing for just about any team except the Rangers.
I'd like for this debate to not matter until late Spring of 2021.
Good point.
We'd be extremely lucky to keep Barron for the next two years. That was a really nice video, but it makes me uneasy.
Quote from: BearLoverWe'd be extremely lucky to keep Barron for the next two years. That was a really nice video, but it makes me uneasy.
I could see him leave after a solid junior year like Furlin and Angello , but I'll be surprised if he leaves after this season. He's still pretty young.
Quote from: scoop85Quote from: BearLoverWe'd be extremely lucky to keep Barron for the next two years. That was a really nice video, but it makes me uneasy.
I could see him leave after a solid junior year like Furlin and Angello , but I'll be surprised if he leaves after this season. He's still pretty young.
Depends on whether the Rangers think he can still grow here. I hope so.
Quote from: TrotskyQuote from: scoop85Quote from: BearLoverWe'd be extremely lucky to keep Barron for the next two years. That was a really nice video, but it makes me uneasy.
I could see him leave after a solid junior year like Furlin and Angello , but I'll be surprised if he leaves after this season. He's still pretty young.
Depends on whether the Rangers think he can still grow here. I hope so.
I can recall similar discussions about a fellow named Nethery back in the late 1970's.... That Rangers administration chose to let him season in Ithaca.. Let's hope they do the same with Barron.
Quote from: rediceQuote from: TrotskyQuote from: scoop85Quote from: BearLoverWe'd be extremely lucky to keep Barron for the next two years. That was a really nice video, but it makes me uneasy.
I could see him leave after a solid junior year like Furlin and Angello , but I'll be surprised if he leaves after this season. He's still pretty young.
Depends on whether the Rangers think he can still grow here. I hope so.
I can recall similar discussions about a fellow named Nethery back in the late 1970's.... That Rangers administration chose to let him season in Ithaca.. Let's hope they do the same with Barron.
God, this makes me feel old. But that's why our generation doesn't do selfies.
I just need something to remind me every day or two that it's true - besides the black tape I put over the front camera.
Quote from: martyQuote from: rediceQuote from: TrotskyQuote from: scoop85Quote from: BearLoverWe'd be extremely lucky to keep Barron for the next two years. That was a really nice video, but it makes me uneasy.
I could see him leave after a solid junior year like Furlin and Angello , but I'll be surprised if he leaves after this season. He's still pretty young.
Depends on whether the Rangers think he can still grow here. I hope so.
I can recall similar discussions about a fellow named Nethery back in the late 1970's.... That Rangers administration chose to let him season in Ithaca.. Let's hope they do the same with Barron.
God, this makes me feel old. But that's why our generation doesn't do selfies.
I just need something to remind me every day or two that it's true - besides the black tape I put over the front camera.
Did college players even come out early in the 70's?
much less,, fewer pro teams so more players to choose from
Quote from: upprdeckmuch less,, fewer pro teams so more players to choose from
And many fewer pro prospects in college back then.
Quote from: Jim HylaQuote from: upprdeckmuch less,, fewer pro teams so more players to choose from
And many fewer pro prospects in college back then.
The 1969 Denver team that beat Cornell in the NCAA championship game was an exception. Somewhere long ago I read that six players from that team went on to NHL careers (or maybe it was NHL and WHA). Names I recognize from NHL are Keith Magnuson, Cliff Koroll, George Morrison and Craig Patrick. Tough roster.
Maybe I'm a bit too optimistic about Barron's return next year. Here's an excerpt from Rick Carpiniello's Rangers article today in The Athletic:
But another lesser-known commodity, big, skilled winger Morgan Barron, whose Cornell team has not yet begun its ECAC playoffs, may turn pro after this season. That decision is not in stone. But Barron has had a fabulous season after being the Rangers' sixth-rounder (174th overall) in the 2017 draft. Barron's not just a smart guy who finishes checks, but he's a shoot-first forward of which the Rangers are in need (his 4.52 shots per game rank third in the NCAA this season), who has 13 goals, 17 assists in 29 games.
Quote from: scoop85Maybe I'm a bit too optimistic about Barron's return next year. Here's an excerpt from Rick Carpiniello's Rangers article today in The Athletic:
But another lesser-known commodity, big, skilled winger Morgan Barron, whose Cornell team has not yet begun its ECAC playoffs, may turn pro after this season. That decision is not in stone. But Barron has had a fabulous season after being the Rangers' sixth-rounder (174th overall) in the 2017 draft. Barron's not just a smart guy who finishes checks, but he's a shoot-first forward of which the Rangers are in need (his 4.52 shots per game rank third in the NCAA this season), who has 13 goals, 17 assists in 29 games.
Bolting after two years is much faster than the norm in the ECAC, even for star players. If Priskie, Gostisbehere, Vesey, Donato, Vecchione, Veronneau, Kuffner, Carr, Riley, etc. all stayed three or four years, you have to wonder what's different about Barron's situation. Yeah, the Rangers stink, but he's definitely not ready to immediately jump to the NHL. The Rangers must believe he could develop better in the AHL.
All the more reason to always push as far as possible when we have the chance. You can't plan for a future when it might bolt.
is he where Angello was 2 yrs ago? Just having him this year makes a huge difference in this team and its depth
Quote from: upprdeckis he where Angello was 2 yrs ago? Just having him this year makes a huge difference in this team and its depth
He's probably slightly ahead of where Angello was two years ago, and the team that drafted him is certainly in far more of a rebuilding phase than the Penguins were two years ago. But look at Angello: 15-12-27 in 56 games in the AHL. Certainly not
bad numbers for your first year in the AHL, but also certainly not suggestive of Angello ever making it as an everyday NHL player. And what did Angello lose by leaving? Well, he would have earned his degree and Cornell would probably be a top-five team in the country right now.
Here's the reality: Cornell hasn't produced much NHL talent over the past decade. We currently have one everyday player in the NHL--Riley Nash, who is 1-7-8 in 65 games this year. Joakim Ryan looked to be on his way after a breakout rookie season last year, but he's been relegated to the bench as probably the 8th defenseman on a very good Sharks team. Riley stayed three years, Joakim stayed four. Moulson (stayed four years) and Murray (four years) had good careers. The other recent players who lasted a few years: Greening (four years), Scrivens (four), Bitz (four), O'Byrne (three). Pokuluk and LeNeveu left after two years, and both flamed out.
I think it's safe to conclude that, as a Cornell hockey player, your chances of making it as a pro are
not hurt by staying four years--and given how high the fail rate is, staying in college is often a much safer choice. Is Barron materially different from the above players? Maybe. But given we're not blowing teams away in NHL talent, if we want to compete nationally, we need players like him to stay in school.
Quote from: BearLoverQuote from: upprdeckis he where Angello was 2 yrs ago? Just having him this year makes a huge difference in this team and its depth
I think it's safe to conclude that, as a Cornell hockey player, your chances of making it as a pro are not hurt by staying four years--and given how high the fail rate is, staying in college is often a much safer choice.
The first sentence seems more like a loss to us than to Angello. He signed a two year deal for $1.85M so ... ask Haiskanen if staying in college is the safe choice.
Quote from: ugarteQuote from: BearLoverQuote from: upprdeckis he where Angello was 2 yrs ago? Just having him this year makes a huge difference in this team and its depth
I think it's safe to conclude that, as a Cornell hockey player, your chances of making it as a pro are not hurt by staying four years--and given how high the fail rate is, staying in college is often a much safer choice.
The first sentence seems more like a loss to us than to Angello. He signed a two year deal for $1.85M so ... ask Haiskanen if staying in college is the safe choice.
I think we're pretty much agreed that he's going to do what the Rangers tell him to do. They may feel like he still has opportunities for growth, here. I hope they do. I don't think he's close to ready and that if he goes to the minors now he'll be buried there. Much better IMO for him to be a first line / first pp unit player here vacuuming up ice time.
But I may be biased...
Believe Angello is earning far less than what's written above. That number presumes he's playing in the NHL. He's been playing in the AHL, where salaries are a fraction of the NHL minimum.
yeah i thought he had a 2 way deal with a small bonus. he is making 70K this yr in salary
Quote from: upprdeckyeah i thought he had a 2 way deal with a small bonus. he is making 70K this yr in salary
Yes thanks. This idea that college players going pro earn millions has to be properly understood. The vast majority are 2 way and even then the signing bonus may be the only guaranteed monies. Sometimes they do have a few years guaranteed as well.
Quote from: Jim HylaQuote from: upprdeckyeah i thought he had a 2 way deal with a small bonus. he is making 70K this yr in salary
Yes thanks. This idea that college players going pro earn millions has to be properly understood. The vast majority are 2 way and even then the signing bonus may be the only guaranteed monies. Sometimes they do have a few years guaranteed as well.
Was it Ryan Hughes who was guaranteed 3 games in the N so Boston put him on the bench then dumped him in Providence to rot?
Quote from: TrotskyQuote from: Jim HylaQuote from: upprdeckyeah i thought he had a 2 way deal with a small bonus. he is making 70K this yr in salary
Yes thanks. This idea that college players going pro earn millions has to be properly understood. The vast majority are 2 way and even then the signing bonus may be the only guaranteed monies. Sometimes they do have a few years guaranteed as well.
Was it Ryan Hughes who was guaranteed 3 games in the N so Boston put him on the bench then dumped him in Providence to rot?
Yep. Never even got back to the AHL after that season, just two more years in the IHL.
Quote from: Jim HylaQuote from: upprdeckyeah i thought he had a 2 way deal with a small bonus. he is making 70K this yr in salary
Yes thanks. This idea that college players going pro earn millions has to be properly understood. The vast majority are 2 way and even then the signing bonus may be the only guaranteed monies. Sometimes they do have a few years guaranteed as well.
I know that Willcox received a 700K 'qualifying offer' last summer from the Flyers, and he has never played an NHL game. Is that not really what he makes if he is in the AHL?
Quote from: nshapiroQuote from: Jim HylaQuote from: upprdeckyeah i thought he had a 2 way deal with a small bonus. he is making 70K this yr in salary
Yes thanks. This idea that college players going pro earn millions has to be properly understood. The vast majority are 2 way and even then the signing bonus may be the only guaranteed monies. Sometimes they do have a few years guaranteed as well.
I know that Willcox received a 700K 'qualifying offer' last summer from the Flyers, and he has never played an NHL game. Is that not really what he makes if he is in the AHL?
I thought "qualifying offer" meant the player either took the money or refused the offer and was a free agent. So if he stayed in their system the money's his.
Given that players have a very short window to make their money, and they and their families have sunk many years and dollars into preparation, signing bonuses and qualifying offers aren't really that much of a windfall unless they are enormous. They are basically a back end payment to compensate for all that effort -- they bring the athlete back to zero, after which he can start earning money (again, for only a very brief time).
Quote from: TrotskyQuote from: nshapiroQuote from: Jim HylaQuote from: upprdeckyeah i thought he had a 2 way deal with a small bonus. he is making 70K this yr in salary
Yes thanks. This idea that college players going pro earn millions has to be properly understood. The vast majority are 2 way and even then the signing bonus may be the only guaranteed monies. Sometimes they do have a few years guaranteed as well.
I know that Willcox received a 700K 'qualifying offer' last summer from the Flyers, and he has never played an NHL game. Is that not really what he makes if he is in the AHL?
I thought "qualifying offer" meant the player either took the money or refused the offer and was a free agent. So if he stayed in their system the money's his.
Given that players have a very short window to make their money, and they and their families have sunk many years and dollars into preparation, signing bonuses and qualifying offers aren't really that much of a windfall unless they are enormous. They are basically a back end payment to compensate for all that effort -- they bring the athlete back to zero, after which he can start earning money (again, for only a very brief time).
Plus - yes, he received and accepted the qualifying offer, so he pocketed the $700k to restrict his free agency, but his contract renewal was still two-way. If he's not on the NHL roster he's still not earning a high annual salary.
Quote from: BeeeejPlus - yes, he received and accepted the qualifying offer, so he pocketed the $700k to restrict his free agency, but his contract renewal was still two-way. If he's not on the NHL roster he's still not earning a high annual salary.
Right, that's what I meant by the opportunity to start earning money. But he still has to crack the roster or he's off to business school.
The qualifying offer is not real money. It's way of retaining RFA rights.
The current team must extend a "qualifying offer" to a restricted free agent to retain negotiating rights to that player. Qualifying offers are for one year contracts. The minimum salary for the qualifying offer depends on the player's prior year salary.
Wilcox is currently making 95k this year and 125k next year.He, like some established AHL guys will make more than a typical 2-way deal.
As for Barron I think he can walk into Hartford's top-6 pretty easily, which is an indictment of their forwards but also how good I think he can be immediately.
The main thing in terms of development that the Rangers really look for is being dominant at the level you're playing at. I think Barron is getting there but isn't there yet plus a potential leadership role is something the Rangers would probably find beneficial for both them and Barron.
Quote from: cozThe qualifying offer is not real money. It's way of retaining RFA rights.
The current team must extend a "qualifying offer" to a restricted free agent to retain negotiating rights to that player. Qualifying offers are for one year contracts. The minimum salary for the qualifying offer depends on the player's prior year salary.
Wilcox is currently making 95k this year and 125k next year.He, like some established AHL guys will make more than a typical 2-way deal.
As for Barron I think he can walk into Hartford's top-6 pretty easily, which is an indictment of their forwards but also how good I think he can be immediately.
The main thing in terms of development that the Rangers really look for is being dominant at the level you're playing at. I think Barron is getting there but isn't there yet plus a potential leadership role is something the Rangers would probably find beneficial for both them and Barron.
Thanks. What does the 700k number mean, then? Why not $7B? Or 70 cents?
Quote from: TrotskyThanks. What does the 700k number mean, then? Why not $7B? Or 70 cents?
From Wikipedia: "Players who earned less than $660,000 in the previous season must be offered 110 percent of last season's salary. Players making up to $1 million must be offered 105 percent. Players making over $1 million must be offered 100 percent."
AFAIK it's based on the NHL salary number and then the AHL salary is negotiated separately on 2-way deals. Probably so a guy isn't losing money before they get to the veterans minimum. Wilcox was on a minimum ELC and I think 700k is the standard QO for those guys. He obviously took less than the QO but I could see him doing that to get a better AHL deal.