ELynah Forum

[b]Cornell 2018 football schedule[/b]
Sep 15 TBA    @ Delaware
Sep 22        Yale (Homecoming)
Sep 29        Sacred Heart
Oct 07        Harvard
Oct 13        @ Colgate
Oct 20        @ Brown
Oct 27        @ Princeton
Nov 02 6:00   Penn (ESPN) (Friday night)
Nov 10        Dartmouth
Nov 17        @ Columbia

In order to provide a more interesting and competitive end to the Ivy League football season, Penn-Princeton and Cornell-Columbia are now the season-ending games. Translation: The odds of Penn-Princeton having an effect on the championship race is more dramatic than Princeton-Columbia (virtually guaranteed Princeton win) and to a lesser extent Cornell-Penn. It makes sense for the good of the league.

Looks as if one Ivy (or Ivy vs. non) game a week will be Friday at 7 or 6 pm, on one of the ESPN networks.

One nice thing for NY-NJ-Philadelphia alumni: The at-Princeton and at-Penn games are in alternating years. In 2018 we'll be at Princeton for the second straight year and host Penn for the second straight year.

[b]Cornell 2018 football schedule[/b]
Sep 15 TBA    @ Delaware
Sep 22        Yale (Homecoming)
Sep 29        Sacred Heart
Oct 07        Harvard
Oct 13        @ Colgate
Oct 20        @ Brown
Oct 27        @ Princeton
Nov 02 6:00   Penn (ESPN) (Friday night)
Nov 10        Dartmouth
[b]Nov 17        @ Columbia
Nov 24        @ MSG vs. Harvard (hockey)[/b]

In even years past (2016-2014, there has been a fantastic Cornell-in-NYC weekend when we played Columbia around Nov. 10, with tailgates, class receptions the night before, the Big Red Band march down Fifth AVenue after the game, and dining/drinking after that, plus some pre-reunion rah-rah cocktail parties for (this year) the classes of 4s and 9s. Five years ago it was a wonderland warm, mid-60s Friday night and our class had a rooftop reception.

Probably ain't gonna happen this year. You have to decide where to expend your energies. Now, all these events if they happen are going to compete with Red Hot Hockey at MSG seven days later, this time the non-league game vs. Harvard. It was already bad enough when the two were within 2 or 3 weeks. If the football weekend events happen, they're going to damp attendance at hockey, or vice versa, among alumni who are more socializers than sports fanatics.

Nah, having a year-tagged thread for everything is getting monotonous. I'm going to willy-nilly create game threads just to break this up, bill.

Quote from: billhoward[code]Cornell 2018 football schedule

In order to provide a more interesting and competitive end to the Ivy League football season, Penn-Princeton and Cornell-Columbia are now the season-ending games. Translation: The odds of Penn-Princeton having an effect on the championship race is more dramatic than Princeton-Columbia (virtually guaranteed Princeton win) and to a lesser extent Cornell-Penn. It makes sense for the good of the league.

What!?!  Columbia a guaranteed win for Princeton?  Have you been watching?

Freshman class announced (http://cornellbigred.com/news/2018/5/23/big-red-football-announces-class-of-2022.aspx)

For anyone that has Sirius XM radio, tonight's (7/16) edition of LATE HITS on the NFL Channel 88 (7 pm - 11 pm) is focusing on NFL players (past and present) from the IVY League.

JC Tretter was on a 9 pm and Gil Brandt has a few stories about Ed Marinaro. The show replays around 3 am, and is available "on demand" for those of you with the App.

I just happened to see a kid tweet that he's received an offer from Cornell football.  In his twitter handle he includes that he has 4.0 GPA and a 21 on the ACT.  That's the 56th percentile. No offense intended, but it seems hard to believe anyone with a 21 ACT would be admitted to Cornell these days.

Quote from: scoop85I just happened to see a kid tweet that he's received an offer from Cornell football.  In his twitter handle he includes that he has 4.0 GPA and a 21 on the ACT.  That's the 56th percentile. No offense intended, but it seems hard to believe anyone with a 21 ACT would be admitted to Cornell these days.

Sure they haven't re-scored it again?

Edit: nah, 21 is shitty (https://www.act.org/content/dam/act/unsecured/documents/NormsChartMCandComposite-Web2015-16.pdf).

I mean, it is football, though...  ::whistle::

i for one want to tsk tsk about standardized test scores from the good athlete who worked hard enough in high school to graduate with a 4.0

Quote from: ugartei for one want to tsk tsk about standardized test scores from the good athlete who worked hard enough in high school to graduate with a 4.0

Some HS have gone to a 5.0 grading system.  Freaked me out when my daughter brought home a 4.7 in Oregon.

Quote from: ugartei for one want to tsk tsk about standardized test scores from the good athlete who worked hard enough in high school to graduate with a 4.0

Certainly the merits of standardized tests are debatable.  But the fact is that Cornell factors test scores into is admissions decisions, and Cornell's average ACT for accepted students is a 32.

Quote from: scoop85

Quote from: ugartei for one want to tsk tsk about standardized test scores from the good athlete who worked hard enough in high school to graduate with a 4.0

Certainly the merits of standardized tests is debatable.  But the fact is that Cornell factors test scores into is admissions decisions, and Cornell's average ACT for accepted students is a 32.

Maybe the kid got a 32 and slid one digit left on the phone keyboard. It's Twitter, it's not like anybody cares about correctness over there.

Quote from: Trotsky

Quote from: ugartei for one want to tsk tsk about standardized test scores from the good athlete who worked hard enough in high school to graduate with a 4.0

Some HS have gone to a 5.0 grading system.  Freaked me out when my daughter brought home a 4.7 in Oregon.

This reminds me of my fifth year which was in Ann Arbor.  At one point in the year a member of the admissions committee asked my C.U. buddies and me what was going on with a woman applicant who had a higher than 4.0 in Chem. E.  We had to fess up to the 4.3 system in place at our alma mater - which of course made us look 0.3 less in his eyes.

Quote from: marty

Quote from: Trotsky

Quote from: ugartei for one want to tsk tsk about standardized test scores from the good athlete who worked hard enough in high school to graduate with a 4.0

Some HS have gone to a 5.0 grading system.  Freaked me out when my daughter brought home a 4.7 in Oregon.

This reminds me of my fifth year which was in Ann Arbor.  At one point in the year a member of the admissions committee asked my C.U. buddies and me what was going on with a woman applicant who had a higher than 4.0 in Chem. E.  We had to fess up to the 4.3 system in place at our alma mater - which of course made us look 0.3 less in his eyes.

Hey, if it wasn't for the little 0.3 I'd have never gotten a 4.0 my last semester (I got an A+ in one course in my major which offset an A- in one of my electives).

Quote from: Jeff Hopkins '82

Quote from: marty

Quote from: Trotsky

Quote from: ugartei for one want to tsk tsk about standardized test scores from the good athlete who worked hard enough in high school to graduate with a 4.0

Some HS have gone to a 5.0 grading system.  Freaked me out when my daughter brought home a 4.7 in Oregon.

This reminds me of my fifth year which was in Ann Arbor.  At one point in the year a member of the admissions committee asked my C.U. buddies and me what was going on with a woman applicant who had a higher than 4.0 in Chem. E.  We had to fess up to the 4.3 system in place at our alma mater - which of course made us look 0.3 less in his eyes.

Hey, if it wasn't for the little 0.3 I'd have never gotten a 4.0 my last semester (I got an A+ in one course in my major which offset an A- in one of my electives).

Every semester I received (won't say earned!) an A+, I also had an A- in a class with one more credit hour, so no 4.0s for me.  :(

Reserve judgment until you see his game videos.

Cornell football picked to finish 7th in Ivies in preseason media poll.

Quote from: CASCornell football picked to finish 7th in Ivies in preseason media poll.

Not surprised.

Quote from: CASCornell football picked to finish 7th in Ivies in preseason media poll.

Not last!  First time since 2014.

Quote from: George64

Quote from: CASCornell football picked to finish 7th in Ivies in preseason media poll.

Not last!  First time since 2014.

Around the bowl and down the hole. (http://cornellsun.com/2018/08/20/football-picked-above-last-in-preseason-poll-for-1st-time-since-2014/)

Looks like highly-rated QB recruit Harley Kirsch is off the 2018 roster having never taken a varsity snap due to a very serious illness early on.  Shame.

The season opens tomorrow. There hasn't been a football post here since Aug. 21. In comparison, there's been a bunch on lacrosse and even a half-dozen on polo (horse, not water). Good luck, Cornell. I might even go down to Delaware to watch, assuming seats are still available. 3:30 p.m. at Tubby Raymond Field. I don't think an Ivy school would allow such name. Have to be T. Raymond III Field at Delaware Mud Hens / Monsanto Round-Up Stadium. LGR!

I don't believe the hurricane is targeting Delaware (high 70s Saturday, partly cloudy).

Quote from: billhowardThe season opens tomorrow. There hasn't been a football post here since Aug. 21. In comparison, there's been a bunch on lacrosse and even a half-dozen on polo (horse, not water). Good luck, Cornell. I might even go down to Delaware to watch, assuming seats are still available. 3:30 p.m. at Tubby Raymond Field. I don't think an Ivy school would allow such name. Have to be T. Raymond III Field at Delaware Mud Hens / Monsanto Round-Up Stadium. LGR!

I don't believe the hurricane is targeting Delaware (high 70s Saturday, partly cloudy).

Mid Atlantic weather has returned to our Total Shit Status Quo for September (sticky, fetid, gross).  Playing football in this must be the equivalent of having to wear wet socks on a 5-mile hike.

Just survive.  (Your 2018 motto)

Quote from: billhowardThe season opens tomorrow. There hasn't been a football post here since Aug. 21. In comparison, there's been a bunch on lacrosse and even a half-dozen on polo (horse, not water). Good luck, Cornell. I might even go down to Delaware to watch, assuming seats are still available. 3:30 p.m. at Tubby Raymond Field. I don't think an Ivy school would allow such name. Have to be T. Raymond III Field at Delaware Mud Hens / Monsanto Round-Up Stadium. LGR!

I don't believe the hurricane is targeting Delaware (high 70s Saturday, partly cloudy).

Cornell got creamed by Delaware last opener.  It should follow the same script.  Get ready for plenty of mistakes, penalties and turnovers as Cornell plays their 1st game and Delaware their 3rd.

And Delaware just crushed Lafayette, 37-0.  

Not looking forward to much of a game Saturday, but I'll go down there for the hell of it.

Quote from: Jeff Hopkins '82And Delaware just crushed Lafayette, 37-0.  

Not looking forward to much of a game Saturday, but I'll go down there for the hell of it.

Hope this is the end of the Delaware series.

Quote from: Ken711

Quote from: Jeff Hopkins '82And Delaware just crushed Lafayette, 37-0.  

Not looking forward to much of a game Saturday, but I'll go down there for the hell of it.

Hope this is the end of the Delaware series.

You and me both.  Though I hope they don't replace Delaware with Villanova.  They just smashed Lehigh.

Can we go back to playing the Merchant Marine Academy?  ::whistle::

Quote from: Jeff Hopkins '82

Quote from: Ken711

Quote from: Jeff Hopkins '82And Delaware just crushed Lafayette, 37-0.  

Not looking forward to much of a game Saturday, but I'll go down there for the hell of it.

Hope this is the end of the Delaware series.

You and me both.  Though I hope they don't replace Delaware with Villanova.  They just smashed Lehigh.

Can we go back to playing the Merchant Marine Academy?  ::whistle::

They should add a team like Lafayette or Holy Cross in future schedules.

Quote from: Ken711

Quote from: Jeff Hopkins '82

Quote from: Ken711

Quote from: Jeff Hopkins '82And Delaware just crushed Lafayette, 37-0.  

Not looking forward to much of a game Saturday, but I'll go down there for the hell of it.

Hope this is the end of the Delaware series.

You and me both.  Though I hope they don't replace Delaware with Villanova.  They just smashed Lehigh.

Can we go back to playing the Merchant Marine Academy?  ::whistle::

They should add a team like Lafayette or Holy Cross in future schedules.

I remember going to a Cornell game at Lafayette a while back.  We lost.

I remember when we played Rutgers more or less evenly. But that was when older alums recalled Cornell played Michigan evenly. The oldest lamented how wimpy football had become with the departure of leather helmets.

Maybe we're losing our best athletes to Ultimate.

Cornell 3, Delaware 0. Enjoy it while it lasts.

Quote from: ugarteCornell 3, Delaware 0. Enjoy it while it lasts.

Now 24-3 Delaware. :-/

Lots of pluses from the first game: Cornell is early on the scoreboard, finishes strong. Then there's the other 50 minutes. And the defense did keep Cornell in the game for three quarters.

There's also this news from the Cornell sports PR story:

Quote from: CornellBigRed.comNotes To Know
• Five Cornellians made their first career starts: LB Lance Blass, WR Garrett Cloer, TE John Fitzgerald, CB Phazione McClurge and WR Lars Pedersen.
• Seeing their first varsity action were: LB Lance Blass, OL Nick Busher, WR Devan Cross, RB Jake Derderian, DL Maxton Edgerly, LS Thomas Ferrara, RB Thomas Glover, RB Delonte Harrell, CB Michael Irons, QB Richie Kenney, S Logan Thut, DL Nathaniel Weber.
• Cornell fell to 0-2 all-time against Delaware with no future meetings on the schedule.
• The Big Red is 92-34-4 all-time on opening day, though just 6-5 in its last 11.

Are they any flagship campus football programs where we could be competitive? (What is the NYS flagship campus BTW?)

Well, now I know all sorts of facts about this game except one: the final score.

Our game reports sure are weird here.

Quote from: billhowardLots of pluses from the first game: Cornell is early on the scoreboard, finishes strong. Then there's the other 50 minutes. And the defense did keep Cornell in the game for three quarters.

There's also this news from the Cornell sports PR story:

Quote from: CornellBigRed.comNotes To Know
• Five Cornellians made their first career starts: LB Lance Blass, WR Garrett Cloer, TE John Fitzgerald, CB Phazione McClurge and WR Lars Pedersen.
• Seeing their first varsity action were: LB Lance Blass, OL Nick Busher, WR Devan Cross, RB Jake Derderian, DL Maxton Edgerly, LS Thomas Ferrara, RB Thomas Glover, RB Delonte Harrell, CB Michael Irons, QB Richie Kenney, S Logan Thut, DL Nathaniel Weber.
• Cornell fell to 0-2 all-time against Delaware with no future meetings on the schedule.
• The Big Red is 92-34-4 all-time on opening day, though just 6-5 in its last 11.

Are they any flagship campus football programs where we could be competitive? (What is the NYS flagship campus BTW?)

Can't win without a quarterback who can throw downfield.

Quote from: Al DeFlorioCan't win without a quarterback who can throw downfield.

On the quarterback issue, he (one of them, anyway) did throw downfield a couple times and in most cases he actually overthrew his receivers.  Tho in one case, the receiver turned around too soon, slowed down, and the ball went just beyond his fingertips.  
 
Our first drive was all tricks and screens. When Delaware caught on to that, it stalled the drive and then the rest of the offense until the last 5 minutes when the Hens had the back-ups in.  But we had a lot of passes that were not on target or were dropped.  Offensively, what I saw was a team that had two games under their belts (including an embarrassing first game loss that they wanted to "avenge" ) versus a team playing their first game who really seemed to not have their timing down.

IMO, the real weakness was our defense.  We couldn't stop the long sideline pass. That was the killer.  Delaware would just set up #7 wide left, throw the long bomb down the sideline, and we couldn't do anything to stop it.  Automatic 40 yard gain.  The defensive coaches never moved a safety over to give any support to the cornerback to prevent it.  And by the end of the game, our defense was so gassed that they started giving up the edges on the run.  Delaware could chew up yardage and run the clock and we couldn't stop them.  

I take one consolation:  last year we had five turnovers in the first half.  This year, none in the whole game.

But for me, I'm glad the series is over. I wonder who we replace them with.

Deleted

Quote from: Jeff Hopkins '82But for me, I'm glad the series is over. I wonder who we replace them with.

Probably Syracuse or Maryland. :-/

Quote from: RichHWell, now I know all sorts of facts about this game except one: the final score.

I thought the subject line would be a handy place to post the final score.

Quote from: billhoward

Quote from: RichHWell, now I know all sorts of facts about this game except one: the final score.

I thought the subject line would be a handy place to post the final score.

I don't think this is wrong exactly, but it would work better if it's a game thread rather than a branch of a season thread.

I also think Rich already knew the final score because of the Rest of the Internet.

Quote from: RichHWell, now I know all sorts of facts about this game except one: the final score.

The game score was we fucking lost.

This is going to be the game score a lot, so you may want to commit it to memory.

(https://media1.giphy.com/media/3orieQDm8PW1dSQxFK/200_s.gif)

Quote from: ugarte

Quote from: billhoward

Quote from: RichHWell, now I know all sorts of facts about this game except one: the final score.

I thought the subject line would be a handy place to post the final score.

I don't think this is wrong exactly, but it would work better if it's a game thread rather than a branch of a season thread.

I also think Rich already knew the final score because of the Rest of the Internet.

2 things:

My apologies, Bill. I didn't see the score in the subject line because I don't normally ever read the subject line of every post in a thread. (Flat view forever!) Heck, I don't even read the author's name of each post because I can usually tell who wrote it based on how bad the jokes are.

Ugarte: I stand by my decision that Cornell football isn't worth opening any other site or app to deep-dive to where they buried the Ivy League scoreboard. It takes what, 30 seconds? Nah, I'm good.

Quote from: Trotsky

Quote from: RichHWell, now I know all sorts of facts about this game except one: the final score.

The game score was we fucking lost.

This is going to be the game score a lot, so you may want to commit it to memory.

I just want to know how badly we lost is all.

Quote from: RichH

Quote from: Trotsky

Quote from: RichHWell, now I know all sorts of facts about this game except one: the final score.

The game score was we fucking lost.

This is going to be the game score a lot, so you may want to commit it to memory.

I just want to know how badly we lost is all.

Think of it this way.

We were embarrassed by a team that was embarrassed last year by Villanova which was embarrassed this year by Pitt which was embarrassed last year by Georgia Tech which was embarrassed last year by Duke.  And Duke sucks.

The FCS is bad.  The Ivies are bad for the FCS.  We are bad for the Ivies.

Did anyone watch the game on ESPN+? Or has anyone watched any Ivy game on ESPN+ for that matter. Wondering if there was an improvement, regression, or "about the same" versus ILDN broadcasting a similar game last season.

Quote from: CU2007Did anyone watch the game on ESPN+? Or has anyone watched any Ivy game on ESPN+ for that matter. Wondering if there was an improvement, regression, or "about the same" versus ILDN broadcasting a similar game last season.

It was an away non-league game, and was not on ESPN+.  I watched some of it on Delaware's Youtube channel

Quote from: scoop85

Quote from: CU2007Did anyone watch the game on ESPN+? Or has anyone watched any Ivy game on ESPN+ for that matter. Wondering if there was an improvement, regression, or "about the same" versus ILDN broadcasting a similar game last season.

It was an away non-league game, and was not on ESPN+.  I watched some of it on Delaware's Youtube channel

Yep, I also watched it on the YouTube channel.

Quote from: RichHMy apologies, Bill. I didn't see the score in the subject line because I don't normally ever read the subject line of every post in a thread. (Flat view forever!) Heck, I don't even read the author's name of each post because I can usually tell who wrote it based on how bad the jokes are.

None needed. Just bank it for when I say something dumb. I could also have just appended "Delaware" so people knew this was the first game of the year and not about Cornell's prospects or reminiscing how good it was when Kevin Boothe anchored the offensive line.

Quote from: TrotskyThe FCS is bad.  The Ivies are bad for the FCS.  We are bad for the Ivies.

Others say we're not so bad.

https://www.sbnation.com/college-football/2018/8/7/17298832/ivy-league-fcs-playoffs

Quote from: Bill Connelly, SBNationThe Massey Composite compiles computer ratings for both the FBS and FCS levels. In 2015, the Ivy League, powered by No. 5 Harvard and No. 6 Dartmouth, graded out as the second-best FCS conference, behind only North Dakota State's Missouri Valley. In 2017, it ranked fourth.

The league has fielded at least one top-15 team in six of the last eight years, and the depth appears to be increasing quickly, too.

That trend should only continue. Per HERO Sports, Princeton signed 2018's No. 1 FCS recruiting class, and three other Ivy schools (No. 2 Yale, No. 6 Harvard, No. 14 Columbia*) ranked in the top 15. Harvard and Yale ranked in the top eight in each of the last two years, too.

Maybe you've noticed. Maybe you flipped over to NBC Sports on a Friday night to watch part of an Ivy League game or turned on the annual Harvard-Yale battle and caught yourself getting sucked in. Maybe you saw two Ivy Leaguers get selected in April's NFL draft. Or maybe you noticed Princeton beating out Alabama for a four-star quarterback. But perhaps you didn't notice. You could be forgiven.

* If true and the Lions are really big, the #1 train will be safe when players commute to practice.

Quote from: billhoward

Quote from: TrotskyThe FCS is bad.  The Ivies are bad for the FCS.  We are bad for the Ivies.

Others say we're not so bad.

That's interesting, Bill!  I will admit it's not at all the impression I had.

I have always assumed if the Ivies ever dropped their monocle and joined the FCS playoffs our one auto bid would lose in the first round by 73 to Inbred Red State Pentecostal A&I (the Fightin' Glossolalists).

Quote from: TrotskyI have always assumed if the Ivies ever dropped their monocle and joined the FCS playoffs our one auto bid would lose in the first round by 73 to Inbred Red State Pentecostal A&I (the Fightin' Glossolalists).

At first I was thinking of Red State as Native American. Now I got it. And in its entirety the name was pretty funny.

I was browsing small colleges recently and saw one that calls itself "selective" but the online guides note it has a 94 percent acceptance rate. The other six probably can afford but can't figure how to pull the ring on a Pabst Blue Ribbon.

That's why I couldn't understand all the hand wringing on this board about playing Delaware.  I daresay Colgate is pretty much on the same level as the Hens.

Quote from: Trotsky

Quote from: billhoward

Quote from: TrotskyThe FCS is bad.  The Ivies are bad for the FCS.  We are bad for the Ivies.

Others say we're not so bad.

That's interesting, Bill!  I will admit it's not at all the impression I had.

I have always assumed if the Ivies ever dropped their monocle and joined the FCS playoffs our one auto bid would lose in the first round by 73 to Inbred Red State Pentecostal A&I (the Fightin' Glossolalists).

The NCAA forced them to change their name from The Racist White Mysogynists.  ::banana::

Another 0-2 start to the season,  We've seen this show before.

Quote from: Ken711Another 0-2 start to the season,  We've seen this show before.

At least it was competitive (unlike last week).  And Yale was the preseason #1 Ivy pick.

Quote from: Jeff Hopkins '82

Quote from: Ken711Another 0-2 start to the season,  We've seen this show before.

At least it was competitive (unlike last week).  And Yale was the preseason #1 Ivy pick.

Some curious play calling.  And the roughing the passer call that set up Yale's clinching TD on 3rd and long was awfully shaky.

My observation

Cornell's defensive scheme with a lot of blitzing leaves the corners and safeties on 1 on 1 coverages and vulnerable on the pass plays.  Credit to Yale's o-line for picking up the blitzes.

The roughing call is the only thing I didn't like in this game. We were supposed to get rolled and didn't. We've played two games that were supposed to be blowouts and have looked credible, even in losses. It's an improvement. I have low expectations for football so this is good to me. A win here would have been amazing, and it hurts that we came close and failed, but I'm still happy with the season so far.

Also, I think Dalton Banks is not a very good passer.

Quote from: ugarteThe roughing call is the only thing I didn't like in this game. We were supposed to get rolled and didn't. We've played two games that were supposed to be blowouts and have looked credible, even in losses. It's an improvement. I have low expectations for football so this is good to me. A win here would have been amazing, and it hurts that we came close and failed, but I'm still happy with the season so far.

Also, I think Dalton Banks is not a very good passer.

All our QBs have regressed or made no development progress under Archer's QB position coach during his tenure.

Quote from: CU2007Did anyone watch the game on ESPN+? Or has anyone watched any Ivy game on ESPN+ for that matter. Wondering if there was an improvement, regression, or "about the same" versus ILDN broadcasting a similar game last season.

For anyone wondering, the broadcast quality on ESPN+ was about the same as the ILDN (with maybe a few more replays?). Anyways, don't expect a significant improvement for hockey.

We just won our sprint football game against Franklin Pierce (due to forfeit) - what's the deal with that?

Quote from: margolismWe just won our sprint football game against Franklin Pierce (due to forfeit) - what's the deal with that?

He's been dead since 1869.  That can't have helped.

Quote from: Trotsky

Quote from: margolismWe just won our sprint football game against Franklin Pierce (due to forfeit) - what's the deal with that?

He's been dead since 1869.  That can't have helped.

+1 Twice in one topic Trotsky made me almost spew coffee out the nose.

Sprint football not even getting the courtesy of its own topic. One of the six alumni winning the Frank H T Rhodes Award for Distinguished Alumni Service last week was Jay Carter '71. A lot of words for a small plaque, so they inscribe it Cornell Big Macher instead.

https://bigredsportsnetwork.org/?p=4679

Here's your answer. Franklin Pierce DGAF

Cornell blows out formerly 3-0 Sacred Heart 43-24. Wow.

Quote from: ugarteCornell blows out formerly 3-0 Sacred Heart 43-24. Wow.

And it was 43-10 before garbage time

I watched the game on ESPN+ and it seemed that there were many commercial breaks. According to box scores, the SHU game ran for 3:10 and last week's Yale game ran 3:15.  In contrast, the first two games on IDN last year, Colgate and Bucknell, ran for 2:41 and 2:36, respectively.  Presumably, the many and lengthy commercials accounted for the extra 34 minutes per game.  I hope that this trend doesn't continue into hockey season as annoying commercial timeouts affect the flow of the game and provide a break for less well conditioned teams, not to mention that fans will get home later.

Quote from: George64I watched the game on ESPN+ and it seemed that there were many commercial breaks. According to box scores, the SHU game ran for 3:10 and last week's Yale game ran 3:15.  In contrast, the first two games on IDN last year, Colgate and Bucknell, ran for 2:41 and 2:36, respectively.  Presumably, the many and lengthy commercials accounted for the extra 34 minutes per game.  I hope that this trend doesn't continue into hockey season as annoying commercial timeouts affect the flow of the game and provide a break for less well conditioned teams, not to mention that fans will get home later.

3:15 is a Major League Baseball 7-inning game.

I think once you go to ESPN games then there is a set number of commercial timeouts even if its not on reg Tv stations. This makes all the games fit into the tv blocks

Quote from: George64I watched the game on ESPN+ and it seemed that there were many commercial breaks. According to box scores, the SHU game ran for 3:10 and last week's Yale game ran 3:15.  In contrast, the first two games on IDN last year, Colgate and Bucknell, ran for 2:41 and 2:36, respectively.  Presumably, the many and lengthy commercials accounted for the extra 34 minutes per game.  I hope that this trend doesn't continue into hockey season as annoying commercial timeouts affect the flow of the game and provide a break for less well conditioned teams, not to mention that fans will get home later.

This would suck for us old timers and hockey purists of any age.  The only silver lining is that it would give the coaching staff more experience in dealing with the finesse needed in line matching, etc. when dealing with a game with more timeouts.  It could make the staff more ready for playoff hockey.

Quote from: marty

Quote from: George64I watched the game on ESPN+ and it seemed that there were many commercial breaks. According to box scores, the SHU game ran for 3:10 and last week's Yale game ran 3:15.  In contrast, the first two games on IDN last year, Colgate and Bucknell, ran for 2:41 and 2:36, respectively.  Presumably, the many and lengthy commercials accounted for the extra 34 minutes per game.  I hope that this trend doesn't continue into hockey season as annoying commercial timeouts affect the flow of the game and provide a break for less well conditioned teams, not to mention that fans will get home later.

This would suck for us old timers and hockey purists of any age.  The only silver lining is that it would give the coaching staff more experience in dealing with the finesse needed in line matching, etc. when dealing with a game with more timeouts.  It could make the staff more ready for playoff hockey.

This is sort of my view. The flow of a TV game can seem much different than that of a non-tv game. NCAA games are all TV games. May as well adapt to that flow even if it means longer games in December too.

ESPN+ currently has the Cornell-Harvard football video crosswired to the Cornell-Harvard women's soccer game.

Nice high resolution image, though.

They sorted themselves out just it time for a 47-yard Harvard TD run.  0-7.

0-7 through 1 quarter.  Other than the one broken play not a bad effort.  Harvard looks better but Catanese has been moving the ball a little.

Blocked punt returned 28 yards by Bedard; 7-7.

Great punt block and scoop to tie the game at 7.

Harvard's best WR got hurt early in the game and it's really hurt their offense. Of the few plays I saw, we couldn't cover him and their QB could totally trust him to be open on timing throws.

Neither team has a quarterback.  Null is out so no kicking or punting game.  Cornell playcalling is awful but playbook itself is worse.  Unnecessary roughness  (key word:  unnecessary) penalty killed first good field position.  

Princeton and Dartmouth will roll these two teams..

Cornell has a terminally stupid coaching staff.  Harvard has given up just 50 yards per game rushing, but Cornell starts every down series with a rush, usually two.  When they didn't, the surprise pass (and badly underthrown at that) gained 45 yards and led to the only offensive touchdown.

Gorgeous broken tackle 34 yard TD run by Coles makes it 21-24 midway through the 4th.  We are still in this.

Boom.  Banks-Peters 33, 28-24, 5 mins to go.

Defense stands up with 3 late stops.  28-24 final.  Great win!

Quote from: TrotskyDefense stands up with 3 late stops.  28-24 final.  Great win!

w

Yes, terrific win.  I agree with Al that Dartmouth and Princeton are the cream of the Ivies, but okay is one to savor.

A win is a win.  Whatever the football bar is now will be rocking tonight.

Quote from: scoop85

Quote from: TrotskyDefense stands up with 3 late stops.  28-24 final.  Great win!

w

Yes, terrific win.  I agree with Al that Dartmouth and Princeton are the cream of the Ivies, but okay is one to savor.

Maybe so but we beat Princeton last year and we've improved. Dartmouth will probably roll.

Quote from: ugarte

Quote from: scoop85

Quote from: TrotskyDefense stands up with 3 late stops.  28-24 final.  Great win!

w

Yes, terrific win.  I agree with Al that Dartmouth and Princeton are the cream of the Ivies, but okay is one to savor.

Maybe so but we beat Princeton last year and we've improved. Dartmouth will probably roll.

Princeton was missing Lovett their QB. They are much better team this year with him.

Quote from: Ken711

Quote from: ugarte

Quote from: scoop85

Quote from: TrotskyDefense stands up with 3 late stops.  28-24 final.  Great win!

w

Yes, terrific win.  I agree with Al that Dartmouth and Princeton are the cream of the Ivies, but okay is one to savor.

Maybe so but we beat Princeton last year and we've improved. Dartmouth will probably roll.

Princeton was missing Lovett their QB. They are much better team this year with him.

Based on early results, both Princeton and Dartmouth look like they could be serious contenders were Ivies to compete in the FCS playoffs

Quote from: ugarte

Quote from: scoop85

Quote from: TrotskyDefense stands up with 3 late stops.  28-24 final.  Great win!

w
Yes, terrific win.  I agree with Al that Dartmouth and Princeton are the cream of the Ivies, but okay is one to savor.

Maybe so but we beat Princeton last year and we've improved. Dartmouth will probably roll.

Princeton just rolled Lehigh 66-7. Princeton's lowest MOV was 35 points in a 45-10 win over Columbia. Princeton put up 50+ points in its other 3 games.

Quote from: billhoward

Quote from: ugarte

Quote from: scoop85

Quote from: TrotskyDefense stands up with 3 late stops.  28-24 final.  Great win!

w
Yes, terrific win.  I agree with Al that Dartmouth and Princeton are the cream of the Ivies, but okay is one to savor.

Maybe so but we beat Princeton last year and we've improved. Dartmouth will probably roll.

Princeton just rolled Lehigh 66-7. Princeton's lowest MOV was 35 points in a 45-10 win over Columbia. Princeton put up 50+ points in its other 3 games.

Why are you all replying with facts that you know I know? I thought you wanted our team to win.

Quote from: ugarte

Quote from: billhoward

Quote from: ugarte

Quote from: scoop85

Quote from: TrotskyDefense stands up with 3 late stops.  28-24 final.  Great win!

w
Yes, terrific win.  I agree with Al that Dartmouth and Princeton are the cream of the Ivies, but okay is one to savor.

Maybe so but we beat Princeton last year and we've improved. Dartmouth will probably roll.

Princeton just rolled Lehigh 66-7. Princeton's lowest MOV was 35 points in a 45-10 win over Columbia. Princeton put up 50+ points in its other 3 games.

Why are you all replying with facts that you know I know? I thought you wanted our team to win.

Probably because it's highly unlikely Cornell wins, and more likely suffer a blow out. ;-)

Didn't anyone say, Your grandfather has a cold ... grandpa had to go to the hospital ... let's pray for grandpa. It gets you ready for what's about to happen shortly.

P.S. Did you hear Princeton grabbed the #1 recruit in the FCS segment, the one Alabama tried to snatch, and he's not even starting? Now, I believe grandpa Ezra is on the life-support machine and don't you walk near the cord, young Charles.

Didn't learn from last week.  Varied offense on first drive was successful until two dumb play calls ended it.  Since then it's run, run, run until you have to pass and then punt.

Colgate TD scored on a clever pass play and FG set up by a clever delayed screen.  Waiting to see a clever Cornell play.  10-0 late first.

I don't think we watch the same games, Al. A better team ended the first drive by making plays. The calls weren't dumb, they just didn't work.

Bad snap leaves the Cornell punter scrambling inside Cornell's 20 and he gets nailed by the coverage team. Fortunately for Cornell, the helmets brushed against each other (and it looked much worse because his head snapped back on the hit) and Colgate gets hit with a *terrible* targeting call with 16 seconds left in the half. Instead of Colgate with the ball in the red zone, Cornell is able to move into Nick Null's field goal range for a last-second field goal try. Alas, Nick Null is out for the year. Zach Mays isn't close on a 43-yarder but the Red is only down 10-0 at the half to a top-20 FCS team.

But: Did anyone think we'd have a two-game win streak going before mid-season?

Now 17-0 Colgate 5 minutes into the third up to 24-0 Colgate 8 minutes into the third. If we have a comeback planned, we do have all 3 timeouts left. Good game management.

that fake punt was one of the worst passes I've ever seen lol

Quote from: ugarteI don't think we watch the same games, Al. A better team ended the first drive by making plays. The calls weren't dumb, they just didn't work.

No, we watch the same games.  We just have a different idea of smart play-calling.

Some consolation: Back in Ithaca, Cornell sprint football put up 26 in the second quarter to lead Chestnut Hill College 35-23. I had to learn more about Chestnut Hill, which is not close to BC, but in the Chestnut Hill section of Philadelphia. About 1400 students. And this on admissions: A 500 on each SAT is about average and it's "moderately difficult" to get in.

Dalton Banks gets subbed out after the Cornell D gets a stop on downs near midfield with ~4 minutes left. His replacement promptly throws a pick-6 and Cornell is down 31-0.

Quote from: Al DeFlorio

Quote from: ugarteI don't think we watch the same games, Al. A better team ended the first drive by making plays. The calls weren't dumb, they just didn't work.

No, we watch the same games.  We just have a different idea of smart play-calling.

We're disagreeing over whether it was the call or the execution.

Quote from: ugarteDalton Banks gets subbed out after the Cornell D gets a stop on downs near midfield with ~4 minutes left. His replacement promptly throws a pick-6 and Cornell is down 31-0.

Mercifully, the game is over.

It's on to Providence. Brown has only a win over Georgetown so far, was blanked by Rhode Island 48-0 in the Newport Mansions Cup (I'm sure it has a name), and is being pounded by Princeton 35-3 today.

Princeton appears to have an objectively good football team, as in not good by Ivy standards, but good good.50- 7 at Butler
51- 9 Monmouth
45-10 at Columbia
66- 7 Lehigh
42-10 Brown (still in progress)


Quote from: ugarte

Quote from: Al DeFlorio

Quote from: ugarteI don't think we watch the same games, Al. A better team ended the first drive by making plays. The calls weren't dumb, they just didn't work.

No, we watch the same games.  We just have a different idea of smart play-calling.

We're disagreeing over whether it was the call or the execution.

On your opening drive, With third and one on the 23 yard line of a team that hasn't given up a touchdown in its last four games, you have two shots to gain a yard, continue that drive, and maybe send an early message with a touchdown. And you have a 240 pound quarterback who can go under center and plunge forward.  At least run a play that goes north-south, where it's very unlikely you'll lose ground.  The last thing to do is run east-west and risk losing yardage on third down.  So what did Cornell do?

Quote from: billhowardIt's on to Providence. Brown has only a win over Georgetown so far, was blanked by Rhode Island 48-0 in the Newport Mansions Cup (I'm sure it has a name), and is being pounded by Princeton 35-3 today.

If Cornell loses to Brown, Archer should be fired at the end of the season.

Quote from: Al DeFlorio

Quote from: ugarte

Quote from: Al DeFlorio

Quote from: ugarteI don't think we watch the same games, Al. A better team ended the first drive by making plays. The calls weren't dumb, they just didn't work.

No, we watch the same games.  We just have a different idea of smart play-calling.

We're disagreeing over whether it was the call or the execution.

On your opening drive, With third and one on the 23 yard line of a team that hasn't given up a touchdown in its last four games, you have two shots to gain a yard, continue that drive, and maybe send an early message with a touchdown. And you have a 240 pound quarterback who can go under center and plunge forward.  At least run a play that goes north-south, where it's very unlikely you'll lose ground.  The last thing to do is run east-west and risk losing yardage on third down.  So what did Cornell do?

Third down was dumb. Fourth down was no longer one yard and the squad blocked like crap on the screen. So it was both.

Quote from: ugarte

Quote from: Al DeFlorio

Quote from: ugarte

Quote from: Al DeFlorio

Quote from: ugarteI don't think we watch the same games, Al. A better team ended the first drive by making plays. The calls weren't dumb, they just didn't work.

No, we watch the same games.  We just have a different idea of smart play-calling.

We're disagreeing over whether it was the call or the execution.

On your opening drive, With third and one on the 23 yard line of a team that hasn't given up a touchdown in its last four games, you have two shots to gain a yard, continue that drive, and maybe send an early message with a touchdown. And you have a 240 pound quarterback who can go under center and plunge forward.  At least run a play that goes north-south, where it's very unlikely you'll lose ground.  The last thing to do is run east-west and risk losing yardage on third down.  So what did Cornell do?

Third down was dumb. Fourth down was no longer one yard and the squad blocked like crap on the screen. So it was both.

Yes, the blocking was crap.  No question.  Against the #1 defense that is fast, athletic, and pursues like crazy, in a must-make or else lose-the-ball situation, call a play where the receiver is at least the requisite number of yards downfield to get the first.  How about a slant over the middle or a button-hook to the outside, at least five yards downfield?

Quote from: Al DeFlorio

Quote from: ugarte

Quote from: Al DeFlorio

Quote from: ugarte

Quote from: Al DeFlorio

Quote from: ugarteI don't think we watch the same games, Al. A better team ended the first drive by making plays. The calls weren't dumb, they just didn't work.

No, we watch the same games.  We just have a different idea of smart play-calling.

We're disagreeing over whether it was the call or the execution.

On your opening drive, With third and one on the 23 yard line of a team that hasn't given up a touchdown in its last four games, you have two shots to gain a yard, continue that drive, and maybe send an early message with a touchdown. And you have a 240 pound quarterback who can go under center and plunge forward.  At least run a play that goes north-south, where it's very unlikely you'll lose ground.  The last thing to do is run east-west and risk losing yardage on third down.  So what did Cornell do?

Third down was dumb. Fourth down was no longer one yard and the squad blocked like crap on the screen. So it was both.

Yes, the blocking was crap.  No question.  Against the #1 defense that is fast, athletic, and pursues like crazy, in a must-make or else lose-the-ball situation, call a play where the receiver is at least the requisite number of yards downfield to get the first.  How about a slant over the middle or a button-hook to the outside, at least five yards downfield?

The one thing i've learned from watching both NFL football and Ivy League football is you have to get what NFL offenses are capable of out of your head because the arms and heads in the Ivies just aren't up to it. Quick slants and buttonhooks are precise timing patterns that I don't think I'd even trust Banks to throw with the zip to make them work, and if they aren't open what's your second read? I think the answer is that Archer trusts Coles more than Banks, so that's why you get a screen called and if the entire Colgate line beats their blocks, that's how the play goes. We got torched by a team that is much better than we are. Would have been nice to get some points though.

Quote from: Ken711

Quote from: billhowardIt's on to Providence. Brown has only a win over Georgetown so far, was blanked by Rhode Island 48-0 in the Newport Mansions Cup (I'm sure it has a name), and is being pounded by Princeton 35-3 today.

If Cornell loses to Brown, Archer should be fired at the end of the season.

Have you given up on the idea of summary execution? You're a softie.

Quote from: billhoward

Quote from: Ken711

Quote from: billhowardIt's on to Providence. Brown has only a win over Georgetown so far, was blanked by Rhode Island 48-0 in the Newport Mansions Cup (I'm sure it has a name), and is being pounded by Princeton 35-3 today.

If Cornell loses to Brown, Archer should be fired at the end of the season.

Have you given up on the idea of summary execution? You're a softie.

Summary firing sounds about right though if they lose.  Let's see the finally games remaining.

at Brown - They had better win
at Princeton - No chance
Penn - Good chance
Dartmouth - Doubtful
at Columbia - Winnable

Uh-oh, second quarter, and we haven't scored. Neither has Brown. Still. This is the Brown of old, not the one that clobbered Cornell most every year from the mid '90s to the mid '00s.

Now it's a shootout, Brown 10 Cornell 7 late in the second. 2 TD passes late put Cornell up 14-10 at the half. More like it.

Q3: Another Cornell TD, 21-10 in the third.  Brown gets to the Cornell 5, Cornell's David Jones blocks the FGA and Cornell runs it all the way back to the, uh, Brown 25. (Hey, we blocked it.) End of 3rd, Cornell 21-10.

Q4: 7 seconds into 4th, Dalton Banks 59 yards to Lars Pederson but there's an offside against - phew - Brown. 28-10. Roll Tide. Cornell then Brown score in last 6 minutes. Brown tries for 2 points to make it 36-18 and with a 3-minute miracle of 2 TDs, 2 conversions and an FG, they'd upset Cornell.

Amazing: six games in, we're 3-3 with a 2-1 Ivy record. Toughest game of the year, give or take Colgate, is at Princeton next Saturday. Tigers are 6-0, held off Harvard on the road 29-21. A happy note from Princeton's game story for Cornell fans who travel:

Quote from: Princeton PRPrinceton remains in a first-place tie with Dartmouth, a Saturday road winner at Columbia, and will take on Cornell next Saturday at 1 pm on Powers Field. Tickets are still available for that game, and you can watch it live on ESPN+.


Cornell          0   14   7  13  -- 34
Brown            0   10   0   6  -- 16

Cornell PR game story: https://cornellbigred.com/news/2018/10/20/football-brown-recap.aspx

Quote from: billhowardUh-oh, second quarter, and we haven't scored. Neither has Brown. Still.

Brown leads 3-0. Both teams are lousy.

Two TDs make it 14-10 CU at the half.

Quote from: Al DeFlorioTwo TDs make it 14-10 CU at the half.

We're certainly playing better. Now driving to start the 2nd half, at around the Brown 20.  TD here would be big.

28-10, pulling away.  Banks with 3 TD passes.

ESPN has a win probability doohickey:

34-10, now.  I don't know how much of it is Brown, but we look mobile, organized, and confident.

Quote from: scoop85

Quote from: billhowardUh-oh, second quarter, and we haven't scored. Neither has Brown. Still.

Brown leads 3-0. Both teams areBrown is lousy.

There's lousy, and then there's lousy. We are less lousy.

Quote from: TrotskyESPN has a win probability doohickey:

In medical terms, beware next week of flatlining.

Of the three Cornell losses, one came against Delaware, a 4-2 team nobody ever expected us to beat, and Colgate, a ranked team that hasn't given up a single touchdown since the first week of the season.

It's not as if our losses were against mediocre, cupcake teams.  Our only Ivy loss (thus far) was against the team favored to win the Ivy League this season.  

Perhaps we we are better team than we / anyone else thinks we are.  I didn't say a great team, but not an assumed W like we were two years ago.

Quote from: marty

Quote from: George64I watched the game on ESPN+ and it seemed that there were many commercial breaks. According to box scores, the SHU game ran for 3:10 and last week's Yale game ran 3:15.  In contrast, the first two games on IDN last year, Colgate and Bucknell, ran for 2:41 and 2:36, respectively.  Presumably, the many and lengthy commercials accounted for the extra 34 minutes per game.  I hope that this trend doesn't continue into hockey season as annoying commercial timeouts affect the flow of the game and provide a break for less well conditioned teams, not to mention that fans will get home later.

This would suck for us old timers and hockey purists of any age.  The only silver lining is that it would give the coaching staff more experience in dealing with the finesse needed in line matching, etc. when dealing with a game with more timeouts.  It could make the staff more ready for playoff hockey.

This really belongs in hockey...  Tonight at RPI there were 3 short time outs per period. The first came at about the 6 to 7 minute mark. The "shovel" time out was similar to last year at about the 10 to 11 minute mark followed by another at about the 15 minute mark. For the first and third timeout of the third period I timed the buzzer to ref whistle interval. It was about 45 seconds from the official clock buzzer sound until the ref blew the whistle to indicate the time out was over.  Within about 15 seconds the teams were lined up for the puck drop.  The midpoint time out lasted a bit longer.

I saw no red light at Houston Field House to indicate the stoppages.

Extension for the Coach!

Quote from: billhowardBrown gets to the Cornell 5, Cornell's David Jones blocks the FGA and Cornell runs it all the way back to the, uh, Brown 25. (Hey, we blocked it.)

we blocked it but we didn't run it back - the Brown holder fell on the ball at the 25.

Looking like the Keystone Cops today.

Quote from: Al DeFlorioLooking like the Keystone Cops today.

Did you expect them to win?  Cornell is not on the same level as Princeton or Dartmouth. 35-0 Princeton already. This was expected to be a blow-out. As I posted above:

at Brown - They had better win
at Princeton - No chance
Penn - Good chance
Dartmouth - Doubtful
at Columbia - Winnable

42-0 Princeton in the 2nd Qt.  Archer facing his normal late season meltdown leading this team. ::rolleyes::

Quote from: Ken711Did you expect them to win?  

No.  But I did expect more competence than  this.  Not so far from being on pace for a 100-0 loss.

Princeton throwing in last minute of half, up 42-0.  Think we'll be an underdog vs Penn

Quote from: Ken711

Quote from: Al DeFlorioLooking like the Keystone Cops today.

Did you expect them to win?

What a stupid question.  

I didn't expect them to have three interceptions, a long snap over the punter's head, two holding penalties and one blocking-in-the-back penalty in the first 23 minutes.

Thank God it was a dismal rainy day.  Otherwise I'd have been there.

Glad I wasn't.

"So, wonder how we did."

(Looks at score.)

"Seems legit."

Note that Harvard, beaten by Cornell a month ago, played the other unbeaten, dominant Ivy team, Dartmouth, to a 24-17 score (not 66-0), putting up 50 yards more total offense.

Keystone Cops today, indeed.

Quote from: Al DeFlorioNote that Harvard, beaten by Cornell a month ago, played the other unbeaten, dominant Ivy team, Dartmouth, to a 24-17 score (not 66-0), putting up 50 yards more total offense.

Keystone Cops today, indeed.

That's because good coaches make adjustments to other teams as the season progresses.  Cornell, under Archer, ALWAYS fades at the end of the season as other coaches have game planned how to beat Cornell.

On the bright side of the 66-0 loss to Princeton, 4200 fans did make it to the game, at least to the start, and the Nor'easter predicted was only light rainfall. Which made the ball slick and possibly kept the score down. Princeton was clearly dominant and is now fired up for the likely Ivy title game next Saturday, Dartmouth at Princeton, both teams 7-0.

Three points:
* The Cornell band was as dominant as the Princeton scramble band. Princeton's pre-game salate to the Big Red was in the form of an ag school joke. Quelle surprise
* In a game where Cornell had about a dozen possessions, Koby Kiefer only punted 3 times. Cornell's Dalton Banks was intercepted 4 times, was 0x4 on fourth down, but lost no fumbles.
* Princeton outrushed Cornell 358-139, including the game's last 7 yards, a TD run by Cole Smith (photo).

Look at the bright side, over the last 2 games with Princeton, we have split with them.

Quote from: toddloseLook at the bright side, over the last 2 games with Princeton, we have split with them.

How about this for a "bright side", over the last 3 games with Princeton, Cornell has been outscored 150 to 36.

FIRE ARCHER!

Princeton fan on Facebook casts aspersions on the Big Red.

Quote from: billhowardPrinceton fan on Facebook casts aspersions on the Big Red.

Hope he/she is not a Princeton grad with "Bi-week"

Quote from: billhowardPrinceton fan on Facebook casts aspersions on the Big Red.

Cornell is pacing themselves to save their best for the final 3 games of the season. ::rolleyes::

Quote from: scoop85

Quote from: billhowardPrinceton fan on Facebook casts aspersions on the Big Red.

Hope he/she is not a Princeton grad with "Bi-week"

Sounds homophobic to me!  ::doh::

https://cornellsun.com/2018/10/29/guest-column-after-66-0-drubbing-its-time-for-cornell-to-invest-in-higher-profile-athletics/

Quote from: Ken711https://cornellsun.com/2018/10/29/guest-column-after-66-0-drubbing-its-time-for-cornell-to-invest-in-higher-profile-athletics/

Wait, the women's lacrosse team uses the *visiting* men's locker room at Lynah? That's just a room
with some hooks on a wall, isn't it? I sure hope the writer is mixing up that locker room with the old CU men's or women's locker rooms.

Quote from: Ken711https://cornellsun.com/2018/10/29/guest-column-after-66-0-drubbing-its-time-for-cornell-to-invest-in-higher-profile-athletics/

Exhorting the powers that be to renew the Syracuse–Cornell football rivalry after a 66–0 drubbing at the hands of Princeton seems... quixotic.

Bravo to Mark Wolcott, the author of the Sun piece.  His family is a major donor to Cornell athletics.  If we want to be competitive in athletics, we need to make it a priority, invest the necessary resources, & hold those who work in athletics accountable for their results.  It costs a lot to win, & even more to lose...

In all honesty why would we invest in a dying sport?

I'd prefer it if the Ivies all dropped football in unison.

all well and good, but I'd invest in hockey, lacrosse, wrestling - i.e. sports we can be/are nationally competitive at

More boys aged 14-17 are still playing football than any other sport. The Ivies will continue to play football.  The question is are we satisfied with winning 25% of our games, or do we want to be competitive.  I care more about hockey & lacrosse than football, but we should at least be competitive in all the higher profile sports.
We don't need to worry about wrestling having sufficient resources.

Quote from: TrotskyIn all honesty why would we invest in a dying sport?

I'd prefer it if the Ivies all dropped football in unison.

Because some of us still enjoy playing and/or watching?

Pro Choice.

Hey, football's fine if that's what you're into -- I've watched most of the Cornell games on ESPN+ this year.  But I don't see any point in throwing any more resources at a behemoth which already warps and distends athletic budgets and gender balance.  And attempting to gain Ivy football dominance is a bit like trying to win the Special Olympics.  It makes the disabled participants feel empowered, and that's laudable, but it's part vanity project and part hot house flower competition.

Quote from: CASMore boys aged 14-17 are still playing football than any other sport. The Ivies will continue to play football.  The question is are we satisfied with winning 25% of our games, or do we want to be competitive.  I care more about hockey & lacrosse than football, but we should at least be competitive in all the higher profile sports.
We don't need to worry about wrestling having sufficient resources.

Great points!  Certainly, building an indoor practice facility with Ithaca's climate challenges would greatly benefit a lot of both men's and women's sports (i.e., football, lacrosse, baseball, softball, etc.).

Quote from: Ken711

Quote from: CASMore boys aged 14-17 are still playing football than any other sport. The Ivies will continue to play football.  The question is are we satisfied with winning 25% of our games, or do we want to be competitive.  I care more about hockey & lacrosse than football, but we should at least be competitive in all the higher profile sports.
We don't need to worry about wrestling having sufficient resources.

Great points!  Certainly, building an indoor practice facility with Ithaca's climate challenges would greatly benefit a lot of both men's and women's sports (i.e., football, lacrosse, baseball, softball, etc.).

This seems like such a no-brainer that one wonders why it's not already the highest priority in the athletics budget.

Quote from: TrotskyHey, football's fine if that's what you're into -- I've watched most of the Cornell games on ESPN+ this year.  But I don't see any point in throwing any more resources at a behemoth which already warps and distends athletic budgets and gender balance.  And attempting to gain Ivy football dominance is a bit like trying to win the Special Olympics.  It makes the disabled participants feel empowered, and that's laudable, but it's part vanity project and part hot house flower competition.

I am conflicted about football. I still enjoy jumping n the bandwagon when a team I should like is playing well. But my reasons for trying to give up football is twofold 1) Your point about the Ivies being in lower division and therefore prohibited from ever being among the tops in the nation 2) CTE

Has football faced up to the issues around CTE and is there a path forward? I am not sure that banning certain kinds of practce and more strictly enforcing the rules is enough. Unlike hockey (which also has serious issues with CTE) eliminating head to head contact would require fundamental rule changes.

Quote from: Swampy

Quote from: Ken711

Quote from: CASMore boys aged 14-17 are still playing football than any other sport. The Ivies will continue to play football.  The question is are we satisfied with winning 25% of our games, or do we want to be competitive.  I care more about hockey & lacrosse than football, but we should at least be competitive in all the higher profile sports.
We don't need to worry about wrestling having sufficient resources.

Great points!  Certainly, building an indoor practice facility with Ithaca's climate challenges would greatly benefit a lot of both men's and women's sports (i.e., football, lacrosse, baseball, softball, etc.).

This seems like such a no-brainer that one wonders why it's not already the highest priority in the athletics budget.

I sure hope it becomes a top priority for athletic facilities.

Quote from: TrotskyHey, football's fine if that's what you're into -- I've watched most of the Cornell games on ESPN+ this year.  But I don't see any point in throwing any more resources at a behemoth which already warps and distends athletic budgets and gender balance.  And attempting to gain Ivy football dominance is a bit like trying to win the Special Olympics.  It makes the disabled participants feel empowered, and that's laudable, but it's part vanity project and part hot house flower competition.

+1

Penn at Cornell, football, 6 p.m. Yale at Cornell, hockey, 7 p.m. What's the over-under on hockey vs. football attendance?

I'm thinking: Tailgate, one-plus quarters of football, then hockey.

Cornell may be the only school where the roar from the rink after a goal could be heard on the football field.

Penn looks awful Cornell should win this game easily if they don't make more dumb calls like the goal line sweep call.

Hate the decision not take the FG.  Must be confident.  Don't know why though after giving up 60+ last week.

Penn no longer looks so awful.  

Whoever called that sweep on 2nd and goal from the half-yard line should be fired.  A 245-pound QB should be able to sneak a half-yard in three tries.

Quote from: TimVHare the decision not take the FG.  Must be confident.  Don't know why though after giving up 60+ last week.

They should have taken the 3 points this early in the game. The play calling under David Archer's staff continue to be underwhelming.  This is the weakest Penn teams I watched in the last 10 years.  Cornell should be in control easily by now.

Quote from: Al DeFlorioPenn no longer looks so awful.  

Whoever called that sweep on 2nd and goal from the half-yard line should be fired.  A 245-pound QB should be able to sneak a half-yard in three tries.

David Archer call, and yes he should be fired when this season is over.

7-3 now.  Penn is undersized and can't stop the Cornell offense.

2nd targeting call and player ejection.  That's poor coaching by Cornell coaches.

10-7 Penn.

Now 17-7.  Ugh.

Quote from: Jeff Hopkins '82Now 17-7.  Ugh.

Now 20-7.  Double ugh.

Quote from: Ken711

Quote from: Jeff Hopkins '82Now 17-7.  Ugh.

Now 20-7.  Double ugh.

And final.

So much for any shot at a winning Ivy record.

Cornell with yet another loss under David Archer in a mistake filled game,  The Cornell scoring machine offense scored 7 points in its last two games! Andy has to fire Archer at the end of this season.

The official attendance for Friday night's game was 1,066. It's hard to make an argument for continuing to fund the football program with such dismal fan support. Yes, there was a hockey game going on at the same time, but that's unlikely to have made a huge dent into the attendance at the football game.

Quote from: dbilmesThe official attendance for Friday night's game was 1,066. It's hard to make an argument for continuing to fund the football program with such dismal fan support. Yes, there was a hockey game going on at the same time, but that's unlikely to have made a huge dent into the attendance at the football game.

Why show up when the you know there will be questionable play calling and another loss.  First, why on earth wouldn't you try a QB sneak on a 1st and goal at the one, with a 6'3" 245 QB who had already made some nice runs in that drive,  Then when faced 4th down, they leave points on the board instead of going for the field goal.  Poor defensive coaching, leading to poor tackling techniques, leading to two targeting calls. It's unfathomable if David Archer isn't fired at the end of this season.

Let's fix football, not abandon it.  We need to invest in it (coaches, facilities, etc.).  Playing Ivy football helps the Cornell brand.  If Columbia can turn around their football program, we can too.

Quote from: CASLet's fix football, not abandon it.  We need to invest in it (coaches, facilities, etc.).  Playing Ivy football helps the Cornell brand.  If Columbia can turn around their football program, we can too.

Just to play devil's advocate, do we really need to spend hundreds of thousands of dollars on football to help the Cornell brand? We had a record number of applicants for this year's freshman class, and with the exception of the recruited football players, it's unlikely that most of them applied to Cornell because of our football program. I meet with approximately 15 Cornell applicants every year as part of my volunteer work for the Cornell Alumni Admissions Ambassador Network, and most of the kids I meet with have no idea of anything regarding Cornell athletics, with the exception of the rare few who are being recruited for a particular sport.

It was a record year for admissions at Cornell (51,000 applications, 61% yield). Many of Cornell's applicants are probably attracted to attending an Ivy League school.  The Ivies are an athletic conference. Not playing football weakens that connection.  And is saving a few hundred thousand dollars in a budget of over $2 billion for the Ithaca campus material?

Quote from: CASLet's fix football, not abandon it.  We need to invest in it (coaches, facilities, etc.).  Playing Ivy football helps the Cornell brand.  If Columbia can turn around their football program, we can too.

Couldn't agree more.

People forget how bad Brown and Penn were before hiring the right football coaches, and committing the appropriate resources to the sport.

I feel bad for the players. They're not working any less than the other Ivy teams, they're just winning less. Maybe a coaching change is in order. You can't say "fire the coach" in his second or third year if you're committed to rebuilding. If this is the year for change, then let's hope the new coach and much of the staff is in place in December.

Didn't Archer get another contract extension after last season?

Quote from: Al DeFlorioDidn't Archer get another contract extension after last season?

If he did, it could and should be bought out.  It makes no sense to keep a coach who can't win just to fulfill a contract. Six years is more than enough time for his own recruits to establish a winning program, if Archer and his staff recruited, developed and coached those players properly.

Quote from: billhowardI feel bad for the players. They're not working any less than the other Ivy teams, they're just winning less. Maybe a coaching change is in order. You can't say "fire the coach" in his second or third year if you're committed to rebuilding. If this is the year for change, then let's hope the new coach and much of the staff is in place in December.

That's on AN, he should have a list of potential coaching replacements when he makes the change.  This is year six under David Archer. It's just not working out and with a senior dominated team, the fall-off next season could potentially be worse.

Quote from: Ken711

Quote from: Al DeFlorioDidn't Archer get another contract extension after last season?

If he did, it could and should be bought out.  It makes no sense to keep a coach who can't win just to fulfill a contract. Six years is more than enough time for his own recruits to establish a winning program, if Archer and his staff recruited, developed and coached those players properly.

Neither  Athletics (https://cornellbigred.com/news/2017/12/18/cornell-extends-football-coach-david-archer-05-through-2019.aspx) nor the Sun (https://cornellsun.com/2018/02/12/cornell-signs-football-coach-david-archer-05-to-contract-extension/)  reported on the length or end date of the extension.  

Quote from: Athleticsa contract extension with additional performance-based incentives to remain at his alma mater.

Quote from: David Harding

Quote from: Ken711

Quote from: Al DeFlorioDidn't Archer get another contract extension after last season?

If he did, it could and should be bought out.  It makes no sense to keep a coach who can't win just to fulfill a contract. Six years is more than enough time for his own recruits to establish a winning program, if Archer and his staff recruited, developed and coached those players properly.

Neither  Athletics (https://cornellbigred.com/news/2017/12/18/cornell-extends-football-coach-david-archer-05-through-2019.aspx) nor the Sun (https://cornellsun.com/2018/02/12/cornell-signs-football-coach-david-archer-05-to-contract-extension/)  reported on the length or end date of the extension.  

Quote from: Athleticsa contract extension with additional performance-based incentives to remain at his alma mater.

Well Archer surely never achieved any "performance-based" incentives based on his current record.  If this is his second extension, with the first signed before the 2016 season, I'd assume it was a two-year extension. So, he probably has another year left.  Buying out that final year shouldn't be an impediment to bringing in a new coach and improving this football program.

Quote from: Al DeFlorioDidn't Archer get another contract extension after last season?

David Archer '05 has been Cornell coach since fall 2013. So this is his sixth year. According to the Cornell Daily Sun (https://cornellsun.com/2018/02/12/cornell-signs-football-coach-david-archer-05-to-contract-extension/), Archer has signed two contract extensions. If I read the Sun story right, it reported in February 2018 that the second extension was signed "some time ago" as in after the 2017 season ended, perhaps. One was signed before the 2016 season (after three years). They could have a two-year (2016, 2017) and then a two- or one-year extension (2018 or 2018 & 2019).

If Cornell beats Columbia in the season finale, he is 4-6 and it's a tie for his best season ever, if you're a "glass is half full" person.
2-8  2013
1-9
1-9
4-6
3-7
3-5 2018 YTD

Archer may be a singular talent, a Cornell alum, coming in as the then-youngest D1 head coach, but 15-45 (.250) after six years is probably enough time to judge him.

Quote from: billhoward

Quote from: Al DeFlorioDidn't Archer get another contract extension after last season?

David Archer '05 has been Cornell coach since fall 2013. So this is his sixth year. According to the Cornell Daily Sun (https://cornellsun.com/2018/02/12/cornell-signs-football-coach-david-archer-05-to-contract-extension/), Archer has signed two contract extensions. If I read the Sun story right, it reported in February 2018 that the second extension was signed "some time ago" as in after the 2017 season ended, perhaps. One was signed before the 2016 season (after three years). They could have a two-year (2016, 2017) and then a two- or one-year extension (2018 or 2018 & 2019).

If Cornell beats Columbia in the season finale, he is 4-6 and it's a tie for his best season ever, if you're a "glass is half full" person.

Code Select Expand


2-8  2013
1-9
1-9
4-6
3-7
3-5 2018 YTD

Archer may be a singular talent, a Cornell alum, coming in as the then-youngest D1 head coach, but 15-45 (.250) after six years is probably enough time to judge him.

A potential "tie" for the best record he's achieved at 4-6 in 6 years, says all you need to know.  Time for Cornell to fire Archer.

Close game of two 7-0 teams, 9-7 Dartmouth of the way, then a late Princeton score to stay perfect on the season. Princeton has yet to play Yale (away) and Penn (home).

Dartmouth is likely to win out, against Cornell and Brown.

Note that Princeton coach Bob Surace (P '90) arrived the same year Kent Austin did at Cornell (2010) and went 1-9, 1-9 and 5-5 in the Austin years. By the time Archer arrived, Surace put up an 8-2 year in 2013, also in 2016, suffered 5-5 records 2014, 2015 and 2017, and will at worst be 9-1 this year. Took him four years to be a contender.

Image below: the Dartmouth athletics landing page after the game -- Dartmouth soccer (over Cornell) leads, football buried. The only thing Princeton hid on its page was how the score got from 7-7 to 9-7 Dartmouth in the second quarter: "Both teams traded touchdown drives to open the game, but both defenses settled right afterwards and started throwing haymakers the rest of the afternoon. Dartmouth had a second-quarter sack to open a 9-7 lead that stuck on the scoreboard far longer than most likely expected, but the Tiger defense never allowed that advantage to grow."

Quote from: Ken711

Quote from: billhoward

Quote from: Al DeFlorioDidn't Archer get another contract extension after last season?

David Archer '05 has been Cornell coach since fall 2013. So this is his sixth year. According to the Cornell Daily Sun (https://cornellsun.com/2018/02/12/cornell-signs-football-coach-david-archer-05-to-contract-extension/), Archer has signed two contract extensions. If I read the Sun story right, it reported in February 2018 that the second extension was signed "some time ago" as in after the 2017 season ended, perhaps. One was signed before the 2016 season (after three years). They could have a two-year (2016, 2017) and then a two- or one-year extension (2018 or 2018 & 2019).

If Cornell beats Columbia in the season finale, he is 4-6 and it's a tie for his best season ever, if you're a "glass is half full" person.

Code Select Expand


2-8  2013
1-9
1-9
4-6
3-7
3-5 2018 YTD

Archer may be a singular talent, a Cornell alum, coming in as the then-youngest D1 head coach, but 15-45 (.250) after six years is probably enough time to judge him.

A potential "tie" for the best record he's achieved at 4-6 in 6 years, says all you need to know.  Time for Cornell to fire Archer.

you know they'll notice it's just you typing this a dozen times right

Look-The team is giving their best effort out there but if you look at the history of Cornell football since the formalization of the Ivy League the program has been at best mediocre with the exception of the Marinaro and Maxie Baughan years. Was kind of sad being at the game yesterday and watching the 1988 team being honored for their Ivy co-championship. 1990 was the last co-championship-30 years!  I have wondered whether given the structure of the Ivy League whether Cornell can excel in football.

Quote from: rss77Look-The team is giving their best effort out there but if you look at the history of Cornell football since the formalization of the Ivy League the program has been at best mediocre with the exception of the Marinaro and Maxie Baughan years. Was kind of sad being at the game yesterday and watching the 1988 team being honored for their Ivy co-championship. 1990 was the last co-championship-30 years!  I have wondered whether given the structure of the Ivy League whether Cornell can excel in football.

Jim Hofher's years as head coach as you point out were excellent.  Also, in 1999 and 2000 Pete Mangurian had back to back 5-2 Ivy League Conference finishes.  It is possible with the right coach and coaching staff and of course institutional support.

QuoteJust to play devil's advocate, do we really need to spend hundreds of thousands of dollars on football to help the Cornell brand? We had a record number of applicants for this year's freshman class, and with the exception of the recruited football players, it's unlikely that most of them applied to Cornell because of our football program. I meet with approximately 15 Cornell applicants every year as part of my volunteer work for the Cornell Alumni Admissions Ambassador Network, and most of the kids I meet with have no idea of anything regarding Cornell athletics, with the exception of the rare few who are being recruited for a particular sport.

I think this is the case for the majority of people you're going to have applying to a school like Cornell, even if you take out the international applicants. I can tell you that it certainly wasn't a consideration when I applied. In fact, until I went to my first hockey game (February of my freshman year at the invitation of some people in my dorm), I had never been to a sporting event on campus. However, I had already been watching NHL hockey for about 4 years up to that point so it was very natural for me to keep going to games.

Perhaps a little help for next year:
https://www.chicagotribune.com/suburbs/daily-southtown/sports/ct-sta-spt-football-oak-park-river-foresf-brother-rice-st-1105-story.html

Promising start interrupted by the weekly snap over the quarterback's head.  Followed up by calling an eight-yard pass play on 3rd and 16.

Note how on 3rd and 10 Dartmouth threw to a receiver 15 yards downfield.

Good second quarter to come back from down 21-0 to close to 21-17 but the third quarter was terrible. Mostly on the players, who are blowing the blocking on screens very badly. Also a fumble inside our own 10 when the center snapped the ball directly into a running PicKell, who was in motion crossing in front of Banks and not looking for the ball.

35-17 Dartmouth 5 minutes into the 4th. Considering how Princeton ravaged us and never said thank you, this is decent.

Quote from: billhoward35-17 Dartmouth 5 minutes into the 4th. Considering how Princeton ravaged us and never said thank you, this is decent.

Late TD on a very good drive from Banks - some option runs, a couple of long passes (including a 30-yard one-handed sideline grab from Pedersen) and then a short slip-screen to Pedersen for the TD.

Final 35-24.

I'll go watch them next week at Columbia unless the weather is trash.

From the Cornell Sun article:

As the interview drew to a close, The Sun brought up how the Ivy League is the only Football Championship Subdivision Division I conference in which there is no postseason play and whose champion must decline its automatic bid into the NCAA playoffs. The feeling among Ivy league head coaches like Cornell's David Archer '05 is that the annual push from the coaches to permit the champion to accept the bid is "dead on arrival" when it reaches the presidents' desks.

Pollack said that she has never been presented with the proposition, but she was worried that it would mean Cornell would have to play against No.1 ranked Alabama. (A hypothetical change would have the Ivy champion competing with the FCS' best, the likes of North Dakota State. Alabama, who competes in the Southeastern Conference, is the current No. 1 ranked team in the Football Bowl Subdivision.)

"I watch our Cornell team, and I think they're great fun to watch, but then I think of Alabama and I'm worried what playing them will mean for our players' mental health," she quipped.

Quote from: Cop at LynahFrom the Cornell Sun article:

As the interview drew to a close, The Sun brought up how the Ivy League is the only Football Championship Subdivision Division I conference in which there is no postseason play and whose champion must decline its automatic bid into the NCAA playoffs. The feeling among Ivy league head coaches like Cornell's David Archer '05 is that the annual push from the coaches to permit the champion to accept the bid is "dead on arrival" when it reaches the presidents' desks.

Pollack said that she has never been presented with the proposition, but she was worried that it would mean Cornell would have to play against No.1 ranked Alabama. (A hypothetical change would have the Ivy champion competing with the FCS' best, the likes of North Dakota State. Alabama, who competes in the Southeastern Conference, is the current No. 1 ranked team in the Football Bowl Subdivision.)

"I watch our Cornell team, and I think they're great fun to watch, but then I think of Alabama and I'm worried what playing them will mean for our players' mental health," she quipped.

If that quote doesn't tell you how little the administration knows and cares about Cornell football, nothing will.

Cornell is #1 in strength of schedule among FCS schools.

Quote from: scoop85

Quote from: Cop at LynahFrom the Cornell Sun article:

As the interview drew to a close, The Sun brought up how the Ivy League is the only Football Championship Subdivision Division I conference in which there is no postseason play and whose champion must decline its automatic bid into the NCAA playoffs. The feeling among Ivy league head coaches like Cornell's David Archer '05 is that the annual push from the coaches to permit the champion to accept the bid is "dead on arrival" when it reaches the presidents' desks.

Pollack said that she has never been presented with the proposition, but she was worried that it would mean Cornell would have to play against No.1 ranked Alabama. (A hypothetical change would have the Ivy champion competing with the FCS' best, the likes of North Dakota State. Alabama, who competes in the Southeastern Conference, is the current No. 1 ranked team in the Football Bowl Subdivision.)

"I watch our Cornell team, and I think they're great fun to watch, but then I think of Alabama and I'm worried what playing them will mean for our players' mental health," she quipped.

If that quote doesn't tell you how little the administration knows and cares about Cornell football, nothing will.

"Mental health of playing Alabama?"  ::screwy::  

How about Cornell first hires a new football coach that can actually win more than 1/3rd of its games (head coach David Archer overall record .254 in 6 years). Then we can worry about post-season play, lol.  Cornell last had a winning record in 2005, and an Ivy Championship in 1990!

Quote from: Ken711

Quote from: scoop85

Quote from: Cop at LynahFrom the Cornell Sun article:

As the interview drew to a close, The Sun brought up how the Ivy League is the only Football Championship Subdivision Division I conference in which there is no postseason play and whose champion must decline its automatic bid into the NCAA playoffs. The feeling among Ivy league head coaches like Cornell's David Archer '05 is that the annual push from the coaches to permit the champion to accept the bid is "dead on arrival" when it reaches the presidents' desks.

Pollack said that she has never been presented with the proposition, but she was worried that it would mean Cornell would have to play against No.1 ranked Alabama. (A hypothetical change would have the Ivy champion competing with the FCS' best, the likes of North Dakota State. Alabama, who competes in the Southeastern Conference, is the current No. 1 ranked team in the Football Bowl Subdivision.)

"I watch our Cornell team, and I think they're great fun to watch, but then I think of Alabama and I'm worried what playing them will mean for our players' mental health," she quipped.

If that quote doesn't tell you how little the administration knows and cares about Cornell football, nothing will.

"Mental health of playing Alabama?"  ::screwy::  

How about Cornell first hires a new football coach that can actually win more than 1/3rd of its games (head coach David Archer overall record .254 in 6 years). Then we can worry about post-season play, lol.  Cornell last had a winning record in 2005, and a share of an Ivy Championship in 1990!

FYP

Quote from: Swampy

Quote from: Ken711

Quote from: scoop85

Quote from: Cop at LynahFrom the Cornell Sun article:

As the interview drew to a close, The Sun brought up how the Ivy League is the only Football Championship Subdivision Division I conference in which there is no postseason play and whose champion must decline its automatic bid into the NCAA playoffs. The feeling among Ivy league head coaches like Cornell's David Archer '05 is that the annual push from the coaches to permit the champion to accept the bid is "dead on arrival" when it reaches the presidents' desks.

Pollack said that she has never been presented with the proposition, but she was worried that it would mean Cornell would have to play against No.1 ranked Alabama. (A hypothetical change would have the Ivy champion competing with the FCS' best, the likes of North Dakota State. Alabama, who competes in the Southeastern Conference, is the current No. 1 ranked team in the Football Bowl Subdivision.)

"I watch our Cornell team, and I think they're great fun to watch, but then I think of Alabama and I'm worried what playing them will mean for our players' mental health," she quipped.

If that quote doesn't tell you how little the administration knows and cares about Cornell football, nothing will.

"Mental health of playing Alabama?"  ::screwy::  

How about Cornell first hires a new football coach that can actually win more than 1/3rd of its games (head coach David Archer overall record .254 in 6 years). Then we can worry about post-season play, lol.  Cornell last had a winning record in 2005, and a share of an Ivy Championship in 1990!

FYP

That's true.  Cornell has NEVER won the Ivy Championship outright, only shared it in 1971, 1988 and 1990.

In the words of Jim Mora - Playoffs!  Don't talk about playoffs!  You kidding me?

Cornell is a a 5-pt underdog at Columbia this Saturday.  If Cornell loses, we would have the same record in Dave Archer's 6th yr as we had in his 1st - 3-7 overall & 2-5 in the Ivies, for a 7th place Ivy finish.

Quote from: CASCornell is a a 5-pt underdog at Columbia this Saturday.  If Cornell loses, we would have the same record in Dave Archer's 6th yr as we had in his 1st - 3-7 overall & 2-5 in the Ivies, for a 7th place Ivy finish.

Well, you can't fault Archer's consistency!

Quote from: Scersk '97

Quote from: CASCornell is a a 5-pt underdog at Columbia this Saturday.  If Cornell loses, we would have the same record in Dave Archer's 6th yr as we had in his 1st - 3-7 overall & 2-5 in the Ivies, for a 7th place Ivy finish.

Well, you can't fault Archer's consistency!

(https://meme.xyz/uploads/posts/t/l-26472-bishops-agree-sex-abuse-rules-hey-phrasing.jpg)

Vis a vis the potential trauma to the player's psyches (not to mention bodies) of an Alabama game, I was lucky enough to attend the big game in 1991 between Cornell and Stanford at Stanford Stadium.  The Presidents had the idea of a game to celebrate the schools' concurrent 125th and 100th anniversaries, if memory serves.  No concern of the mental health damage that future NFL'ers Bob Whitfield, Touchdown Tommy Vardell, and Glyn Milburn would do on the Red.  Final score: 56-6 bad guys.  Most memorable moments: Cornell setting up in touch football formations at the end of the game in a successful attempt at scoring and Cornell fans carrying around a bed sheet which read:  "OK, now let's try hockey" or some such.

Quote from: arugulaVis a vis the potential trauma to the player's psyches (not to mention bodies) of an Alabama game, I was lucky enough to attend the big game in 1991 between Cornell and Stanford at Stanford Stadium.  The Presidents had the idea of a game to celebrate the schools' concurrent 125th and 100th anniversaries, if memory serves.  No concern of the mental health damage that future NFL'ers Bob Whitfield, Touchdown Tommy Vardell, and Glyn Milburn would do on the Red.  Final score: 56-6 bad guys.  Most memorable moments: Cornell setting up in touch football formations at the end of the game in a successful attempt at scoring and Cornell fans carrying around a bed sheet which read:  "OK, now let's try hockey" or some such.

Stanford put the starters back in for a goal-line stand but failed. SUCK IT STANFORD

SI covered the game (https://www.si.com/vault/1991/10/21/125179/a-real-birthday-bash-even-sacrificial-lamb-cornell-enjoyed-stanfords-centennial-celebration) but doesn't have this anecdote and my minimal searching is done.

Quote from: Al DeFlorioCornell is #1 in strength of schedule among FCS schools.

Would fall considerably if, like the other Ivies, it played against Cornell.

Indeed, Archer's never seemed to be able to get the team to come together. And after this many years at it, I'm just exhausted.

Quote from: Scersk '97Indeed, Archer's never seemed to be able to get the team to come together. And after this many years at it, I'm just exhausted.

Exactly, he's got a team with a lot of seniors playing which should have developed and produced by now,  It's time to move on for sure. How can you recruit for players by them selling a head coach with a .254 winning percentage after 6 years.  Andy needs to let Archer go after Saturday's game.

Hire the best assistant coach on the most successful Ivy team.

I went to that Stanford game - we all went nuts when we got a first down.  But my best memory is when the Stanford Tree (mascot) came out on the field, the Cornell crowd (not a small group) stood up and, in the best Lynah tradition, started pointing and chanting "What the F#$% is that? What the F#$% is that?...".  Made me proud to be a Cornell grad.

Cornell at Columbia is on SNY today.

Painful to watch so far

And, we miss a 23 yd fg after having another blocked.

Cornell squeaks out a win 21-17.

So we end up 3-4 in the Ivy League, same record as last year.

You sure about that Ken? :(

::wtf::

Quote from: Ken711Cornell squeaks out a win 21-17.

Quote from: jeff '84::wtf::

Quote from: Ken711Cornell squeaks out a win 21-17.

Holy cow, I can't believe they give up a TD on a kick-off.  ::bang::

Quote from: Ken711

Quote from: jeff '84::wtf::

Quote from: Ken711Cornell squeaks out a win 21-17.

Holy cow, I can't believe they give up a TD on a kick-off.  ::bang::

And an earlier one on a punt.  Appropriate finish for the season, sorry to say.

Quote from: Al DeFlorio

Quote from: Ken711

Quote from: jeff '84::wtf::

Quote from: Ken711Cornell squeaks out a win 21-17.

Holy cow, I can't believe they give up a TD on a kick-off.  ::bang::

And an earlier one on a punt.  Appropriate finish for the season, sorry to say.

Hopefully Dave Archers last season.

I can't believe what I just saw.  Cornell is now 15-45 (25%) in the Archer era.  In Archer's 6 years as head coach, Cornell's top Ivy finish is a tie for 5th.

Quote from: CASI can't believe what I just saw.  Cornell is now 15-45 (25%) in the Archer era.  In Archer's 6 years as head coach, Cornell's top Ivy finish is a tie for 5th.

He has to go, it's just not working out here.

Not in favor of changing coaches-The team lost their running quarterback, Catanese, 4 games in.  Chris Walker their best running back was our early on.  Cornell has been a constant churn of coaches over the years.

I rarely join the "BURN THE WITCH!" brigade but 5 years is a fair sample of what a coach has to offer.  It's hardly "churn."

Quote from: rss77Not in favor of changing coaches-The team lost their running quarterback, Catanese, 4 games in.  Chris Walker their best running back was our early on.  Cornell has been a constant churn of coaches over the years.

Six years with one coach is more than long enough to see any any sign of progress.  We have the same Ivy record in year six as in year one!  Look at this season as an example for poor coaching. In losing 66-0 to Princeton, Cornell suffered the most one sided loss in a century. The team quit on the HC in that game. Not one, but two player injections in the Penn game for tackling with the helmet. Losing the last game of the season for the 5th straight year. The first time in Cornell history to give up a punt return and kick-off return for TDs in the same game.  Sorry, Archer needs to be "churned" out the door.

You'd think Archer would have remembered this "squib kick" from the 2015 game at Yale...a game Cornell led 26-7 before the squib kick and went on to lose 33-26.

"The Bulldogs trailed at halftime, 26-13, but sophomore Jamal Locke got Yale much needed momentum with an 84-yard kickoff return just before intermission. Cornell squibbed a kick and Locke zipped through a pile of defenders and then went down the left sideline to set up Drwal's six-yard touchdown."

I have no idea why you'd squib it when you are kicking with the wind and can put it through the end zone. The only way is squib is better than a touchback is if they fumble it. Just an insanely stupid decision after a great drive. That they weren't even set up to make a tackle on a run straight up the gut is embarrassing.

The punt return was a fluke - I have no idea how the team missed the tackles inside the 10. It was a perfect punt and they borked it into a TD.

Quote from: ugarteI have no idea why you'd squib it when you are kicking with the wind and can put it through the end zone. The only way is squib is better than a touchback is if they fumble it. Just an insanely stupid decision after a great drive. That they weren't even set up to make a tackle on a run straight up the gut is embarrassing.

The punt return was a fluke - I have no idea how the team missed the tackles inside the 10. It was a perfect punt and they borked it into a TD.

The coaching staff Archer assembled is, and has been, the weakest in the Ivy League.  Example A:  Archer hires his former high school football coach with NO prior college coaching experience, as the Assistant HC/QB coach.  Dalton Banks regressed as did all the other QBs through his 4 years.  Throwing for more INT than TDs in his senior season.  And you wonder why the game planning and in-game decisions such as today's squib kick call are so bad.  Archer has got to go.

Brown U. is firing their HC Phil Estes, their winningest coach in history after only 2 losing seasons.  And we are stuck with Archer for 6 losing seasons, amazing.

Would love to see Estes in Ithaca (like bringing Bagnoli to Columbia).

Quote from: CASWould love to see Estes in Ithaca (like bringing Bagnoli to Columbia).

He would be a huge upgrade over Archer.  Brown will probably hire James Perry the head coach at Bryant U.  Perry is the former standout QB at Brown, and a former OC coach at Princeton. It's the perfect fit there, although Perry is also the kind of experienced coach I wouldn't mind seeing at Cornell.

No news re football.  Guess those overseeing the program are satisfied with losing 75% of games, with no improvement over the 6 years.

Quote from: CASNo news re football.  Guess those overseeing the program are satisfied with losing 75% of games, with no improvement over the 6 years.

Hopefully it's just because of the Thanksgiving holiday break.  I sent my email expressing the same concerns you have to Ryan Lombardi, Cornell VP for Student Affairs and the AD's boss, and received this email back:

Quote from: Thanks very much for your note and your support of Cornell Football. Athletics Director Andy Noel evaluates every team at the conclusion of its season and will do the same for football. I have copied him here so that he has your perspective on this matter.

With Phil Estes available for example a coach with multiple Ivy Championships, Cornell needs to end the Archer era and move on.

Quote from: Ken711

Quote from: CASNo news re football.  Guess those overseeing the program are satisfied with losing 75% of games, with no improvement over the 6 years.

Hopefully it's just because of the Thanksgiving holiday break.  I sent my email expressing the same concerns you have to Ryan Lombardi, Cornell VP for Student Affairs and the AD's boss, and received this email back:

Quote from: Thanks very much for your note and your support of Cornell Football. Athletics Director Andy Noel evaluates every team at the conclusion of its season and will do the same for football. I have copied him here so that he has your perspective on this matter.

With Phil Estes available for example a coach with multiple Ivy Championships, Cornell needs to end the Archer era and move on.

A message from Andy Noel
to the Big Red Football family
Dear former players and friends of Big Red Football.

Happy holiday season to you and your loved ones. I hope that your travels are safe, and that your time together is relaxing and enjoyable.

I contact you to provide my decision re: our football staff with additional comment that I hope will provide a bit more understanding of my position.
This message will be mailed to a list of 2800 former players, parents and friends and forwarded to a selection of interested and supportive Cornell administrators and staff members.

Head coach David Archer has earned my full support and will continue to lead Big Red Football. Some question has arisen so I write to clarify.

I do not have the luxury of retaining members of our coaching staff, both head coach and assistants, based on my personal affection for them or their effort. Massive effort is a baseline expectation. And, I do not make personnel decisions based on the demands of others, who while invested in our success, do not have the opportunity to gain full internal program detail. My decisions are based on intimate knowledge gleaned from frequent, serious discussions with David Archer, and an understanding of his areas of focus and the improvements that have occurred and the ones that I recognize are in process.

My responsibility, first and foremost, is to the experience of individual players who consistently and mightily invest in their football team, their teammates, our coaching staff and university. Our players care deeply about their individual and team performance. They care about their record and their standing within the Ivy League. And, they compete for you and work to make you proud of Cornell Football.

Coach Archer will evaluate each element of our program with an eye toward improvement in every possible area. This analysis will include the assistant coaching staff, key support staff, returning player talent and player development, our training/sports medicine program especially as it relates to injury prevention/rehabilitation of injury and our strength and conditioning program. The internal recruiting process involving admissions and financial aid policy is essential to success on the gridiron while elements like student academic support, protective equipment, nutrition to name a few are of utmost importance as well.

I am particularly grateful to incredibly generous alumni who have challenged me and the CFA to provide all the support we are able to muster to address areas of Cornell Football that would most benefit from added attention. Working together, we seek to provide Coach Archer and his staff all that they need and much of what they want to advance our program.

Of course, some elements critical to success in football are influenced, and in some cases controlled by university policy or by administrators who oversee various areas critical to competitive success. The support within the Office of Admissions and Financial Aid has been the best ever under the leadership of Jason Locke. The advocacy within President Pollack's cabinet from Vice-President Ryan Lombardi has been invaluable as our president navigates a huge list of university priorities that must be triaged. Critical help has been received from Provost Michael Kotlikoff as he approved a program of ongoing financial aid support that allows all Cornell applicants, athletes and non-athletes alike, to receive the same financial aid as offered by any Ivy school offering a more generous need-based package.

I hope that you and the many who care deeply about Cornell Football will continue to support Coach Archer, his staff and our players.

Respectfully,

Andy Noel

Quote from: Head coach David Archer has earned my full support and will continue to lead Big Red Football. Some question has arisen so I write to clarify.

I do not have the luxury of retaining members of our coaching staff, both head coach and assistants, based on my personal affection for them or their effort. Massive effort is a baseline expectation. And, I do not make personnel decisions based on the demands of others, who while invested in our success, do not have the opportunity to gain full internal program detail. [b]My decisions are based on intimate knowledge gleaned from frequent, serious discussions with David Archer, and an understanding of his areas of focus and the improvements that have occurred and the ones that I recognize are in process.[/b]

This makes no sense.  Nothing said at all about his record of "wins" or "losses".  So what are these serious discussions about?  The AD gave him a contract extension last year, and now we are stuck with him another year.  Can't wait to look forward to another 2-5 Ivy League record.  What an exciting time to follow Big Red football.  ::rolleyes::

The 7 other Ivy football coaches applaud Andy's decision.  You are what your record is.
6 years & 60 games is more than an adequate
sample size.  David Archer is 15-45, with zero improvement in record from year 1 to year 6.

Quote from: CASThe 7 other Ivy football coaches applaud Andy's decision.  You are what your record is.
6 years & 60 games is more than an adequate
sample size.  David Archer is 15-45, with zero improvement in record from year 1 to year 6.

We are tanking for the No. 1 draft pick, oh wait....

Fire Andy.

QuoteI do not have the luxury of retaining members of our coaching staff, both head coach and assistants, based on my personal affection for them or their effort. Massive effort is a baseline expectation. And, I do not make personnel decisions based on the demands of others, who while invested in our success, do not have the opportunity to gain full internal program detail.

I'm pretty sure that's what is called "sniveling."  Presumably some of the well-heeled donors are unhappy.  I wonder how they'll take being lectured in such a defensive tone?

Quote from: Trotsky

QuoteI do not have the luxury of retaining members of our coaching staff, both head coach and assistants, based on my personal affection for them or their effort. Massive effort is a baseline expectation. And, I do not make personnel decisions based on the demands of others, who while invested in our success, do not have the opportunity to gain full internal program detail.

I'm pretty sure that's what is called "sniveling."  Presumably some of the well-heeled donors are unhappy.  I wonder how they'll take being lectured in such a defensive tone?

Agreed. And all hear is the word "effort", but not a single mention of "results". And in the end, isn't that what coaches are hired to produce.

Then there's this telling sentence.

Quote"The advocacy within President Pollack's cabinet from Vice-President Ryan Lombardi has been invaluable as our president navigates a huge list of university priorities that must be triaged."

"Triaged"? - I guess the football is at the bottom of that triage. The President could care less of spending any money such as on a new head coach or an indoor practice facility for varsity sports.

Quotewhile elements like student academic support, protective equipment, nutrition to name a few are of utmost importance as well.

We've got the secret weapon.  The School of Human Ecology is all over this nutrition thing.

Ohio State put 62 points on Michigan today, breaking a record (for regulation time) set by (wait for it) Cornell in 1891, when the Big Red beat the Wolverines 58-12 in Detroit, before a crowd of 2300.

Quote from: Ken711

Quote from: Trotsky

QuoteI do not have the luxury of retaining members of our coaching staff, both head coach and assistants, based on my personal affection for them or their effort. Massive effort is a baseline expectation. And, I do not make personnel decisions based on the demands of others, who while invested in our success, do not have the opportunity to gain full internal program detail.

I'm pretty sure that's what is called "sniveling."  Presumably some of the well-heeled donors are unhappy.  I wonder how they'll take being lectured in such a defensive tone?

Agreed. And all hear is the word "effort", but not a single mention of "results". And in the end, isn't that what coaches are hired to produce.

Then there's this telling sentence.

Quote"The advocacy within President Pollack's cabinet from Vice-President Ryan Lombardi has been invaluable as our president navigates a huge list of university priorities that must be triaged."

"Triaged"? - I guess the football is at the bottom of that triage. The President could care less of spending any money such as on a new head coach or an indoor practice facility for varsity sports.

Placing "winning Ivy League football games" at the bottom of the university priority list seems entirely appropriate to me. There's no national competition, no "next level" as in hockey and no sense of reaching a pinnacle of the sport. It's a continuation game, where high school players can continue to compete at a reasonably high level while getting an Ivy education. If they're competing and they're happy it really doesn't matter much.

Worth noting - I can't recall an instance where Andy Noel fired a coach over won-loss record. The only mid-contract departures I can remember were either initiated by the coach or were vaguely tied to some failure to uphold the university code of conduct. I'm probably in the minority here but I don't think that's a bad policy for our AD to adopt. We're not Michigan or Stanford.

If Archer is still under contract he'll likely get to see it through regardless of on-field results. If the players were happy when the extension was granted that'd be reason enough to retain him. Honestly, I'm not sure another coach would succeed without major investment in other areas and it's quite likely that investment isn't going to happen.

To put this another way, winning at football is going to be expensive. You want hockey and lax to foot that bill?

Quote from: Tom LentoTo put this another way, winning at football is going to be expensive. You want hockey and lax to foot that bill?

Well.  THAT certainly changed MY mind.  My answer is "Not only no - but HELL no."  

Can I still get a full size indoor facility for lacrosse?

I believe it's more expensive to run a losing football program in this manner, than to invest to win. Who now wants to write a check to Cornell football?  Who wants to attend a game?  Fielding a perennial loser hurts alumni engagement, which goes hand-in-hand with fundraising.  Facility upgrades would help other programs, including lacrosse.  Cornell football had a winning program from 1986-2000.  It can be done - look at the turnaround at Columbia.  If we accept losing,  we will.

if we were solid you could go from 1-2K to 5-7K at the games.  5k more at $10 a ticket over a 4-5 home schedule probably adds 1 million+ to the budget once you factor in parking and concessions. does that make a big enough difference to make it a worthy thing?

Yes.  Add in improved fundraising & school spirit.  Columbia homecoming this year had the fourth highest attendance ever.  Fix football, don't accept running a doormat program

Quote from: Tom Lento

Quote from: Ken711

Quote from: Trotsky

QuoteI do not have the luxury of retaining members of our coaching staff, both head coach and assistants, based on my personal affection for them or their effort. Massive effort is a baseline expectation. And, I do not make personnel decisions based on the demands of others, who while invested in our success, do not have the opportunity to gain full internal program detail.

I'm pretty sure that's what is called "sniveling."  Presumably some of the well-heeled donors are unhappy.  I wonder how they'll take being lectured in such a defensive tone?

Agreed. And all hear is the word "effort", but not a single mention of "results". And in the end, isn't that what coaches are hired to produce.

Then there's this telling sentence.

Quote"The advocacy within President Pollack's cabinet from Vice-President Ryan Lombardi has been invaluable as our president navigates a huge list of university priorities that must be triaged."

"Triaged"? - I guess the football is at the bottom of that triage. The President could care less of spending any money such as on a new head coach or an indoor practice facility for varsity sports.

Placing "winning Ivy League football games" at the bottom of the university priority list seems entirely appropriate to me. There's no national competition, no "next level" as in hockey and no sense of reaching a pinnacle of the sport. It's a continuation game, where high school players can continue to compete at a reasonably high level while getting an Ivy education. If they're competing and they're happy it really doesn't matter much.

Worth noting - I can't recall an instance where Andy Noel fired a coach over won-loss record. The only mid-contract departures I can remember were either initiated by the coach or were vaguely tied to some failure to uphold the university code of conduct. I'm probably in the minority here but I don't think that's a bad policy for our AD to adopt. We're not Michigan or Stanford.

If Archer is still under contract he'll likely get to see it through regardless of on-field results. If the players were happy when the extension was granted that'd be reason enough to retain him. Honestly, I'm not sure another coach would succeed without major investment in other areas and it's quite likely that investment isn't going to happen.

To put this another way, winning at football is going to be expensive. You want hockey and lax to foot that bill?

Football coach Tim Pendergast was fired in November 2003, after only 3 years due to his won-loss record by Andy.

Quote from: CASYes.  Add in improved fundraising & school spirit.  Columbia homecoming this year had the fourth highest attendance ever.  Fix football, don't accept running a doormat program

Brown is following the Columbia model by bringing in an outside consultant to do a top to bottom review of the football program, in addition to headhunting for their new head coach.

Quote from: Tom LentoWorth noting - I can't recall an instance where Andy Noel fired a coach over won-loss record. The only mid-contract departures I can remember were either initiated by the coach or were vaguely tied to some failure to uphold the university code of conduct. I'm probably in the minority here but I don't think that's a bad policy for our AD to adopt. We're not Michigan or Stanford.

I'm fine with it for our football and, to a lesser extent, basketball legacy programs we use to prop up the pretense of Ivy exceptionalism, which we monetize in other ways.

I wouldn't be fine with it in the sports where we are trying: hockey, crew, lacrosse, polo, track, ... um, maybe that's it?

Ideally we'd drop football as obsolete as bear-baiting, but as long as HYP clutch onto their programs we have play along.  It'd be nice to figure out a way for them to pay us to lose to them, though, the way Vandy did.

So Brown fires a coach who won 3 Ivy titles & hires a consultant.  Brown has financial constraints similar to Cornell.  A big contrast to Andy's inaction with a program that has lost 75% of its game in 6 years under Dave Archer.  Wait, Andy did send an email out.

Quote from: CASSo Brown fires a coach who won 3 Ivy titles & hires a consultant.  Brown has financial constraints similar to Cornell.  A big contrast to Andy's inaction with a program that has lost 75% of its game in 6 years under Dave Archer.  Wait, Andy did send an email out.

It will be interesting to see what happens a year from now when Cornell ends next season with another 2-5 Ivy record.

reads to me like they'll make him make some staffing changes for next year though.

Quote from: underskillreads to me like they'll make him make some staffing changes for next year though.

Perhaps, but unless they suddenly announce some impactful transfers players, it's like re-arranging deck chairs on the Titanic.

so is a coaching change at this point I fear.

Quote from: underskillso is a coaching change at this point I fear.

It can't get worse than Archer. ::cry::

Quote from: Ken711

Quote from: underskillso is a coaching change at this point I fear.

It can't get worse than Archer. ::cry::

Andy: "Hold my beer."

my big fear is that dalton banks is much better than the guy replacing him and then we're really going to see what a bad team looks like

Quote from: ugartemy big fear is that dalton banks is much better than the guy replacing him and then we're really going to see what a bad team looks like

I don't think there is a replacement.  Catanese runs only, a la Jates, as far as I can tell.  The guy who could have replaced (or supplanted) Banks was Harley Kirsch, a highly-regarded recruit from Washington.  But he developed a serious muscle-wasting disorder as a freshman and never took a varsity snap.

Quote from: ugartemy big fear is that dalton banks is much better than the guy replacing him and then we're really going to see what a bad team looks like

I would bet heavily on your fears.  Cornell will have to rely heavily on Harold Coles in a run-based offense because there are no QBs with Banks' passing skills on the roster.  If Cornell finishes better than 2-5 in the Ivy League they will be lucky.

Quote from: Ken711

Quote from: ugartemy big fear is that dalton banks is much better than the guy replacing him and then we're really going to see what a bad team looks like

I would bet heavily on your fears.  Cornell will have to rely heavily on Harold Coles in a run-based offense because there are no QBs with Banks' passing skills on the roster.  If Cornell finishes better than 2-5 in the Ivy League they will be lucky.

But we'll get an A for effort.

Shit! If there was one thing I thought about the Ivy League, and especially Cornell, is that one doesn't find this kind of BS for rationalizing mediocrity. I thought that was something one mainly finds at factory schools, where grade inflation compensates for low standards and substitutes for remedial work that would take resources but actually help students who had been screwed out of a real education by their shitty high schools.

Quote from: Trotsky

Quote from: Tom LentoWorth noting - I can't recall an instance where Andy Noel fired a coach over won-loss record. The only mid-contract departures I can remember were either initiated by the coach or were vaguely tied to some failure to uphold the university code of conduct. I'm probably in the minority here but I don't think that's a bad policy for our AD to adopt. We're not Michigan or Stanford.

I'm fine with it for our football and, to a lesser extent, basketball legacy programs we use to prop up the pretense of Ivy exceptionalism, which we monetize in other ways.

I wouldn't be fine with it in the sports where we are trying: hockey, crew, lacrosse, polo, track, ... um, maybe that's it?

Ideally we'd drop football as obsolete as bear-baiting, but as long as HYP clutch onto their programs we have play along.  It'd be nice to figure out a way for them to pay us to lose to them, though, the way Vandy did.

... wrestling ...

Quote from: David Harding... wrestling ...

Is that you, Andy?  **]

Brown is doing it the right way following the process that Columbia undertook which put their football program on the "winning track" not the "effort track" that Cornell seems to feel is adequate enough.

Quote"Brown has hired a national search firm specializing in collegiate athletic searches (ADs and HCs).
They are interviewing alumni, athletics, administration, current players, and recent players.

They are moving fast, and focusing on all requirements of a successful program. No decisions or offers have been made.

The mission is to bring back Brown's football program to winning traditions and compete at the highest level in the Ivy league. The goal is to find an inspirational leader who has built sustainable programs that compete for championships, and understands the intricacies associated with the Ivy league as it pertains to admissions, recruiting, and fundraising."

Quote from: Ken711Brown is doing it the right way following the process that Columbia undertook which put their football program on the "winning track" not the "effort track" that Cornell seems to feel is adequate enough.

Quote"Brown has hired a national search firm specializing in collegiate athletic searches (ADs and HCs).
They are interviewing alumni, athletics, administration, current players, and recent players.

They are moving fast, and focusing on all requirements of a successful program. No decisions or offers have been made.

The mission is to bring back Brown's football program to winning traditions and compete at the highest level in the Ivy league. The goal is to find an inspirational leader who has built sustainable programs that compete for championships, and understands the intricacies associated with the Ivy league as it pertains to admissions, recruiting, and fundraising."

Whether or not it results in winning football, I'm convinced Cornell needs to do this kind of consultant-assisted search for an AD. Andy has been lackadaisical about searches for two men's lacrosse coaches (firing DeLuca mid-year without any serious public explanation and then just promoting Kerwick; then, when Kerwick resigned -- or was pushed out -- he just promoted Milliman rather than do a national search). In both cases he took the easiest, cheapest way to replace the coach. Given that Cornell had pretty good players in both cases, even though he gave them "interim" titles, it was pretty predictable that their records would be decent in both cases, and he'd wind up promoting them to HC. But in both cases his lazy, cheap approach hurt recruiting. And Kerwick turned out to be a disaster (by Cornell lacrosse standards), and we're keeping our fingers crossed that Milliman will turn out to be the real thing. But we'll never know whom we might have had if Andy had been less lazy and cheap.

These characteristics of Andy are most clear for lacrosse, but we also see them in football and men's basketball. He's passive-aggressive, when we really need someone who's aggressive.

But hiring a consultant just to help find a new football HC is not what we need. We need to use Columbia's approach and have someone who can look at the entire program, from top to bottom, with a new HC being only part of the puzzle.

In fact, evaluation of the entire football program is still too narrow. Can you say "indoor facility" (for football, soccer, lacrosse, etc.) boys and girls?

Quote from: Swampy

Quote from: Ken711Brown is doing it the right way following the process that Columbia undertook which put their football program on the "winning track" not the "effort track" that Cornell seems to feel is adequate enough.

Quote"Brown has hired a national search firm specializing in collegiate athletic searches (ADs and HCs).
They are interviewing alumni, athletics, administration, current players, and recent players.

They are moving fast, and focusing on all requirements of a successful program. No decisions or offers have been made.

The mission is to bring back Brown's football program to winning traditions and compete at the highest level in the Ivy league. The goal is to find an inspirational leader who has built sustainable programs that compete for championships, and understands the intricacies associated with the Ivy league as it pertains to admissions, recruiting, and fundraising."

Whether or not it results in winning football, I'm convinced Cornell needs to do this kind of consultant-assisted search for an AD. Andy has been lackadaisical about searches for two men's lacrosse coaches (firing DeLuca mid-year without any serious public explanation and then just promoting Kerwick; then, when Kerwick resigned -- or was pushed out -- he just promoted Milliman rather than do a national search). In both cases he took the easiest, cheapest way to replace the coach. Given that Cornell had pretty good players in both cases, even though he gave them "interim" titles, it was pretty predictable that their records would be decent in both cases, and he'd wind up promoting them to HC. But in both cases his lazy, cheap approach hurt recruiting. And Kerwick turned out to be a disaster (by Cornell lacrosse standards), and we're keeping our fingers crossed that Milliman will turn out to be the real thing. But we'll never know whom we might have had if Andy had been less lazy and cheap.

These characteristics of Andy are most clear for lacrosse, but we also see them in football and men's basketball. He's passive-aggressive, when we really need someone who's aggressive.

But hiring a consultant just to help find a new football HC is not what we need. We need to use Columbia's approach and have someone who can look at the entire program, from top to bottom, with a new HC being only part of the puzzle.

In fact, evaluation of the entire football program is still too narrow. Can you say "indoor facility" (for football, soccer, lacrosse, etc.) boys and girls?

Spot on Swampy.  A top to bottom review of the athletic department to include personnel and facilities as you rightly hit on. Where is the indoor practice facility that would benefit all varsity sport teams!

Princeton Tigers won football and men's and women's soccer. Ever been done? They also won men's Ivy Hep cross country, men's league water polo and reached Final Four in field hockey.

Brown just hired who I thought they would, James Perry the head coach at Bryant. Perry has a lot of experience in the Ivy League as a player, QB coach and Offensive Coordinator at Princeton.  Smart hire by Brown.

Quote from: CU77Ohio State put 62 points on Michigan today, breaking a record (for regulation time) set by (wait for it) Cornell in 1891, when the Big Red beat the Wolverines 58-12 in Detroit, before a crowd of 2300.

We're still the Big Red of old in announced attendance.

Jim Hofher, former Cornell Head coach, just changed jobs again.  For those who think you can't win at Cornell, Hofher's teams finished in the upper half of the Ivies every year he coached ('90 -'97).  His overall Ivy record was 33 - 23.

Quote from: CASJim Hofher, former Cornell Head coach, just changed jobs again.  For those who think you can't win at Cornell, Hofher's teams finished in the upper half of the Ivies every year he coached ('90 -'97).  His overall Ivy record was 33 - 23.

I wonder if he regrets leaving Cornell for North Carolina.  He's had a very peripatetic career -- 14 stops over 40 years, including two at Wake Forest and two at Syracuse.  His record at Cornell includes one Ivy Championship (tie) and one second place finish - never finishing worse than fourth.  Was he considered when Kent Austin left?

I don't understand all the complaining.  By the transitive property of College Football, Cornell had a great year, with only 8 steps to the College Football Playoffs!

Cornell > Hahvahd > Yale > Maine > Villanova > Temple > Maryland > Texas > Oklahoma

Hofher was followed by Pete Mangurian, who went 11-10 in the Ivies from 1998-2000, including 10-4 in his last 2 years.  Following Mangurian's departure, Andy Noel, who became AD in 1999, has selected 4 coaches.  Their combined Ivy record is 38-88 (2001-2018).  Andy's tenure as AD has seen Cornell football go from a consistent winner, contending for titles, to the bottom of the league.

Quote from: CASHofher was followed by Pete Mangurian, who went 11-10 in the Ivies from 1998-2000, including 10-4 in his last 2 years.  Following Mangurian's departure, Andy Noel, who became AD in 1999, has selected 4 coaches.  Their combined Ivy record is 38-88 (2001-2018).  Andy's tenure as AD has seen Cornell football go from a consistent winner, contending for titles, to the bottom of the league.

Yeah, but how much has Andy saved on the budget for Cornell football?

Quote from: CASHofher was followed by Pete Mangurian, who went 11-10 in the Ivies from 1998-2000, including 10-4 in his last 2 years.  Following Mangurian's departure, Andy Noel, who became AD in 1999, has selected 4 coaches.  Their combined Ivy record is 38-88 (2001-2018).  Andy's tenure as AD has seen Cornell football go from a consistent winner, contending for titles, to the bottom of the league.

Fielding a competitive football team that has a reasonable chance at winning the Ivy championship and at least finishes in the top half of the standings each year is possible with the right coach and administration support.  Cornell I'm afraid due to Archer's contract extension is stuck with him for another season,