Time for a new thread.
Syracuse Sat. Dec. 1, Carrier Dome "Boeheim vs. Boeheim"
Arizona shows interest in Cornell grad transfer Stone Gettings (May 16 story) https://www.azdesertswarm.com/basketball/2018/5/16/17362166/stone-gettings-arizona-grad-transfer-cornell-basketball-recruiting-2018-targets-depth-charts
Awaiting Cornell's list of incoming recruits. They always all sound so good. Whereas with, say, Jeff Teat, Coach says, "He'll definitely compete for playing time freshman year."
Thank you.
So, how good is the Morgan good news? Is it the difference between .500 and an outside chance at contention, or cellar dweller and an outside chance at .500?
Quote from: TrotskyThank you.
So, how good is the Morgan good news? Is it the difference between .500 and an outside chance at contention, or cellar dweller and an outside chance at .500?
We're managing expectations nicely.
Quote from: Woody Allen"More than any other time in history, mankind faces a crossroads. One path leads to despair and utter hopelessness. The other, to total extinction. Let us pray we have the wisdom to choose correctly."
Quote from: TrotskyThank you.
So, how good is the Morgan good news? Is it the difference between .500 and an outside chance at contention, or cellar dweller and an outside chance at .500?
Without Morgan - The Red have the look of a team that is fighting to stay out of the cellar and is hard to watch for all but the most dedicated.
With Morgan - Cornell battles Brown and Columbia for 5th and hopes one of HYPP implodes the way Princeton did last year. My way too early thought is 6th.
I'll hope for the best on the recruits, but it appears the three high school seniors had one D1 offer among them. No earthly idea what to expect from the two JUCOs.
Getting verballed to Arizona I see
Quote from: upprdeckGetting verballed to Arizona I see
google tells me that you are talking about stone gettings as suggested by the link bill howard shared to open the thread
The 2018-19 schedule is out (https://cornellbigred.com/schedule.aspx?schedule=5267&path=mbball).
If you are counting, it includes 3 DIII games for your viewing pleasure.
Quote from: mountainredThe 2018-19 schedule is out (https://cornellbigred.com/schedule.aspx?schedule=5267&path=mbball).
If you are counting, it includes 3 DIII games for your viewing pleasure.
I've never heard of Johnson & Wales or Longwood. Are we sure these aren't prisons?
Quote from: TrotskyQuote from: mountainredThe 2018-19 schedule is out (https://cornellbigred.com/schedule.aspx?schedule=5267&path=mbball).
If you are counting, it includes 3 DIII games for your viewing pleasure.
I've never heard of Johnson & Wales or Longwood. Are we sure these aren't prisons?
They don't serve this (https://www.youtube.com/watch?reload=9&v=uCvfeB9Y3Wg) in any prison where I've eaten.
UConn? Great.
Quote from: Jeff Hopkins '82UConn? Great.
Honest question. Would the UConn women's team beat the Cornell men's team by more than 50?
Quote from: martyQuote from: TrotskyQuote from: mountainredThe 2018-19 schedule is out (https://cornellbigred.com/schedule.aspx?schedule=5267&path=mbball).
If you are counting, it includes 3 DIII games for your viewing pleasure.
I've never heard of Johnson & Wales or Longwood. Are we sure these aren't prisons?
They don't serve this (https://www.youtube.com/watch?reload=9&v=uCvfeB9Y3Wg) in any prison where I've eaten.
Interested in seeing the list of those prisons where you've eaten.
Quote from: TrotskyQuote from: Jeff Hopkins '82UConn? Great.
Honest question. Would the UConn women's team beat the Cornell men's team by more than 50?
No, because they'd empty the bench after the first half.
On second thought...yes.
Quote from: Al DeFlorioQuote from: martyQuote from: TrotskyQuote from: mountainredThe 2018-19 schedule is out (https://cornellbigred.com/schedule.aspx?schedule=5267&path=mbball).
If you are counting, it includes 3 DIII games for your viewing pleasure.
I've never heard of Johnson & Wales or Longwood. Are we sure these aren't prisons?
They don't serve this (https://www.youtube.com/watch?reload=9&v=uCvfeB9Y3Wg) in any prison where I've eaten.
Interested in seeing the list of those prisons where you've eaten.
A young acquaintance told me he was planning to become a chef which at the time I thought worse than a prison sentence. That was until he uttered "pastry chef". My bias against the executive chef profession melted with those two words because the pastry chefs have the early shift. Wake early, work your butt off and leave for home before rush hour.
Last I knew he was here (http://www.coccadotts.com/). Hopefully he can control his appetite and will enjoy a great career that started with a degree from Johnson and Wales.
Quote from: martyQuote from: Al DeFlorioQuote from: martyQuote from: TrotskyQuote from: mountainredThe 2018-19 schedule is out (https://cornellbigred.com/schedule.aspx?schedule=5267&path=mbball).
If you are counting, it includes 3 DIII games for your viewing pleasure.
I've never heard of Johnson & Wales or Longwood. Are we sure these aren't prisons?
They don't serve this (https://www.youtube.com/watch?reload=9&v=uCvfeB9Y3Wg) in any prison where I've eaten.
Interested in seeing the list of those prisons where you've eaten.
A young acquaintance told me he was planning to become a chef which at the time I thought worse than a prison sentence. That was until he uttered "pastry chef". My bias against the executive chef profession melted with those two words because the pastry chefs have the early shift. Wake early, work your butt off and leave for home before rush hour.
Last I knew he was here (http://www.coccadotts.com/). Hopefully he can control his appetite and will enjoy a great career that started with a degree from Johnson and Wales.
We've had a few dinners in the J&W culinary school dining rooms. Very nice.
Ithaca's a pretty good D-III team, so a 37 point win (https://cornellbigred.com/news/2018/10/30/mens-basketball-hot-shooting-big-red-blast-by-bombers-in-exhibition.aspx) in the exhibition game is a good sign
IC isn't Williams,* but they are probably on the level of Cortland St. Cornell beat the Dragons 96-70 in last year's opener. So, yeah, good sign and certainly better than most of the alternatives.
Boeheim was the #2 scorer, as he was in the inter-squad scrimmage. He looks to be the first choice to replace Stone's scoring. JUCO Thurston McCarty had a nice stat line in the intersquad (14p, 7R, 2A), but wasn't mentioned in the story about last night.
*BTW, after a couple of so-so seasons at Williams, Kevin App has the Ephs back to a 20-win, top 10 program.
Meanwhile Harvard signs their SECOND 4 star recruit. Chris Ledlum is ranked as the No. 105 prospect in the 247Sports Composite Rankings. This gives Harvard their second four-star prospect in the 2019 recruiting class. Harvard's class currently ranks No. 22 overall in the 247Sports Composite Rankings.
https://247sports.com/Article/Harvard-gets-second-four-star-pledge-in-Chris-Ledlum-124078476/
WSJ coverage of the Harvard (alleged) discrimination against Asians says 86% of all recruited athletes are admitted. Versus 5% of all applicants.
Quote from: Ken711Meanwhile Harvard signs their SECOND 4 star recruit. Chris Ledlum is ranked as the No. 105 prospect in the 247Sports Composite Rankings. This gives Harvard their second four-star prospect in the 2019 recruiting class. Harvard's class currently ranks No. 22 overall in the 247Sports Composite Rankings.
https://247sports.com/Article/Harvard-gets-second-four-star-pledge-in-Chris-Ledlum-124078476/
The only good news there is Chris' coach at Harvard is still Tommy Amaker, who wastes a lot of talent. But Yale, Penn and Princeton are also nabbing big time recruits and, to put it mildly, Cornell isn't.
I'm going to focus on enjoying Matt Morgan's last year. It could be very bleak after that.
Nice road win to start the season 86-75 at Binghamton.
Morgan with a career high 38 -- he could average 25 points a game. Boeheim was the second option and looked pretty good (20p). Only newcomer to the rotation was Soph. Jake Kuhn.
Glorified scrimmage on Thursday against a bad d3 team with a good nickname (the SUNY-Canton Roos), then Colgate at home on Sunday.
Quote from: mountainredNice road win to start the season 86-75 at Binghamton.
Morgan with a career high 38 -- he could average 25 points a game. Boeheim was the second option and looked pretty good (20p). Only newcomer to the rotation was Soph. Jake Kuhn.
Glorified scrimmage on Thursday against a bad d3 team with a good nickname (the SUNY-Canton Roos), then Colgate at home on Sunday.
Morgan started slowly but blew up in the 2nd half. Boeheim has really improved and looks like he can at least partially fill the gap left by Gettings. Binghamton had some dangerous offensive players and I think this was a very nice road win against a decent D1 team.
When will this chance come our way again? Cornell 2 points short of doubling Canton, winning 86-44.
Wondering how often this kind of headline is used on the Duke basketball site?
Ridiculous headline given 2nd win vs D3 SUNY Canton. The Roos went 7-18 last yr
Quote from: CASRidiculous headline given 2nd win vs D3 SUNY Canton
"And the last time the Big Red went 2-0, they went to the Sweet Sixteen."
Look forward to returning to the Sweet 16 & maybe playing Kentucky again.
Quote from: CASLook forward to returning to the Sweet 16 & maybe playing Kentucky again.
It was closer than the score indicated, for the first 10 minutes.
Ugly loss to Colgate 73-57. Basically, the Big Red looked awful. They couldn't shoot (4 of 28 from behind the arc) and the Raiders got to the basket with ease (they had 54 points in the paint).
Nobody is as bad as their worst loss, but the team I watched today finishes last in the Ivy.
Quote from: mountainredUgly loss to Colgate 73-57. Basically, the Big Red looked awful. They couldn't shoot (4 of 28 from behind the arc) and the Raiders got to the basket with ease (they had 54 points in the paint).
Nobody is as bad as their worst loss, but the team I watched today finishes last in the Ivy.
Interior defense is nonexistent
Quote from: scoop85Quote from: mountainredUgly loss to Colgate 73-57. Basically, the Big Red looked awful. They couldn't shoot (4 of 28 from behind the arc) and the Raiders got to the basket with ease (they had 54 points in the paint).
Nobody is as bad as their worst loss, but the team I watched today finishes last in the Ivy.
Interior defense is nonexistent
No argument here. And if Morgan isn't scoring, the team isn't scoring. That's a bad combination.
Quote from: scoop85Quote from: mountainredUgly loss to Colgate 73-57. Basically, the Big Red looked awful. They couldn't shoot (4 of 28 from behind the arc) and the Raiders got to the basket with ease (they had 54 points in the paint).
Nobody is as bad as their worst loss, but the team I watched today finishes last in the Ivy.
Interior defense is nonexistent
Cornell needs to bring in size at center, whether it's a JUCO transfer or recruited freshman.
Delaware leads at the half 35-23. Adding insult to injury, Nobal Days, a 3-star big guy who had Cornell in his final 3 along with Wisconsin and Tulane, announced today he's going to Tulane. We seem to be falling further behind in the recruiting race against the other Ivies, and with Morgan gone after this year we may be looking at even leaner times.
Quote from: scoop85Delaware leads at the half 35-23. Adding insult to injury, Nobal Days, a 3-star big guy who had Cornell in his final 3 along with Wisconsin and Tulane, announced today he's going to Tulane. We seem to be falling further behind in the recruiting race against the other Ivies, and with Morgan gone after this year we may be looking at even leaner times.
The second half wasn't any better. Cornell closed on a 16-6 run and still lost by 17. Other than Matt and Jimmy Boeheim, no one can shoot.
Some of these guys are better players than they've looked the last two games. But right now, Stone looks like he made the right call.
Quote from: mountainredQuote from: scoop85Delaware leads at the half 35-23. Adding insult to injury, Nobal Days, a 3-star big guy who had Cornell in his final 3 along with Wisconsin and Tulane, announced today he's going to Tulane. We seem to be falling further behind in the recruiting race against the other Ivies, and with Morgan gone after this year we may be looking at even leaner times.
The second half wasn't any better. Cornell closed on a 16-6 run and still lost by 17. Other than Matt and Jimmy Boeheim, no one can shoot.
Some of these guys are better players than they've looked the last two games. But right now, Stone looks like he made the right call.
And the fact that neither of the JUCO guys we brought in this year are in the rotation implies neither of them will be real contributors to the program, since you would expect JUCO transfers to have more of an immediate impact than freshmen. I thought Earl would be able to bring in better talent to Ithaca, but so far Boeheim looks like the best guy he's recruited.
Quote from: scoop85Quote from: mountainredQuote from: scoop85Delaware leads at the half 35-23. Adding insult to injury, Nobal Days, a 3-star big guy who had Cornell in his final 3 along with Wisconsin and Tulane, announced today he's going to Tulane. We seem to be falling further behind in the recruiting race against the other Ivies, and with Morgan gone after this year we may be looking at even leaner times.
The second half wasn't any better. Cornell closed on a 16-6 run and still lost by 17. Other than Matt and Jimmy Boeheim, no one can shoot.
Some of these guys are better players than they've looked the last two games. But right now, Stone looks like he made the right call.
And the fact that neither of the JUCO guys we brought in this year are in the rotation implies neither of them will be real contributors to the program, since you would expect JUCO transfers to have more of an immediate impact than freshmen. I thought Earl would be able to bring in better talent to Ithaca, but so far Boeheim looks like the best guy he's recruited.
Mack is beginning to sneak into the rotation, he got 7 minutes tonight, but he hasn't done much in those minutes. Compare that to Julian who started out of the gate last year and made an immediate impact.
I still think McBride can play, I thought he was easily the best freshman last year, but he may be even more passive on offense this year (and his shooting slump isn't helping). Boeheim has improved his game this off-season, but I'm not sure his ceiling is much more than solid starter. You need those, but that better not be your best player. Kuhn is also improved and could be a decent rotation guy, but he's still a work in process. That's too many "buts" for the best recruits over the last three years.
The last two games were supposed to be toss-up, go down to the last possession match ups. Neither was close. Long season and all that, but this looks grim.
Looking at the lineup out there at times outside of Boeheim or Morgan who else can put points up? Prognosis even in league play looks pretty grim.
Quote from: rss77Looking at the lineup out there at times outside of Boeheim or Morgan who else can put points up? Prognosis even in league play looks pretty grim.
Gordon had some nice games last year, but he's been off this year. Also I thought Whiteside and Davis could contribute more this year, so hopefully that will come.
Quote from: scoop85Quote from: rss77Looking at the lineup out there at times outside of Boeheim or Morgan who else can put points up? Prognosis even in league play looks pretty grim.
Gordon had some nice games last year, but he's been off this year. Also I thought Whiteside and Davis could contribute more this year, so hopefully that will come.
McBride, Whiteside, Gordon and Kuhn are 2 for 32 from behind the arc so far this season. They aren't that bad. Julian is shooting 21% from the field. He shot about 50% last year. Those numbers should improve, which will help the offense overall.
Chaz Mack was a 20p-10r player at his JUCO, so cross your fingers that it clicks for him this season. Half of that production would be really helpful.
I only caught the second half, but Cornell finds its offense and beats NJIT 86-73. Everyone who played shot at least 50%. Morgan had 35, Boeheim 15 and Gordon 10. Julian grabbed 8 rebounds and hit his shots.
Next up is UConn, who beat Syracuse, but is probably smarting after getting handled by Iowa. Even a great game will probably not be enough.
Big Red trails UCONN 49-33 at the half. We wouldn't beat them in any event, but the officiating is a joke. We get called for breathing on their guys, while they maul us and nothing is called.
What are the odds the streak continues? Is this like the Polish cavalry charging German tanks in 1939? In text, Cornell puts the streak in perspective: "Cornell's modest three-game road streak is the longest since 2012-13." Good luck, Cornell.
[edit add:] Final 91-74, 2 points shy of losing by an almost-reasonable 25. The line was Cornell + 15 (to make the score even).
Final: UConn 91 Cornell 74
Quote from: billhowardWhat are the odds the streak continues? Is this like the Polish cavalry charging German tanks in 1939? In text, Cornell puts the streak in perspective: "Cornell's modest three-game road streak is the longest since 2012-13." Good luck, Cornell.
[edit add:] Final 91-74, 2 points shy of losing by an almost-reasonable 25. The line was Cornell + 15 (to make the score even).
17 points is 2 points shy of losing by an almost-reasonable 25?
We literally forgot to watch the game last night, but when we checked the final score we were actually impressed by the respectable result. The second half was 43-41 UConn, which is really kind of amazing, unless they had all their scrubs in.
Quote from: BeeeejQuote from: billhowardWhat are the odds the streak continues? Is this like the Polish cavalry charging German tanks in 1939? In text, Cornell puts the streak in perspective: "Cornell's modest three-game road streak is the longest since 2012-13." Good luck, Cornell.
[edit add:] Final 91-74, 2 points shy of losing by an almost-reasonable 25. The line was Cornell + 15 (to make the score even).
17 points is 2 points shy of losing by an almost-reasonable 25?
We literally forgot to watch the game last night, but when we checked the final score we were actually impressed by the respectable result. The second half was 43-41 UConn, which is really kind of amazing, unless they had all their scrubs in.
The first time I checked it was 23-20 Cornell, and I tried to watch the game but found out it was blacked out in NYC. The next time I checked it was 48-33 UConn and I stopped checking.
Quote from: ugarteQuote from: BeeeejQuote from: billhowardWhat are the odds the streak continues? Is this like the Polish cavalry charging German tanks in 1939? In text, Cornell puts the streak in perspective: "Cornell's modest three-game road streak is the longest since 2012-13." Good luck, Cornell.
[edit add:] Final 91-74, 2 points shy of losing by an almost-reasonable 25. The line was Cornell + 15 (to make the score even).
17 points is 2 points shy of losing by an almost-reasonable 25?
We literally forgot to watch the game last night, but when we checked the final score we were actually impressed by the respectable result. The second half was 43-41 UConn, which is really kind of amazing, unless they had all their scrubs in.
The first time I checked it was 23-20 Cornell, and I tried to watch the game but found out it was blacked out in NYC. The next time I checked it was 48-33 UConn and I stopped checking.
Honestly, there wasn't much to see. It was close for a while thanks to some hot shooting, then UConn hit the jets and opened up a 20 point lead. The Huskies played with a decided lack of urgency after that, playing just hard enough to keep it around 20. If not for Morgan, this would have been truly ugly.
game was on SNY and blacked out on ESPN+
Quote from: upprdeckgame was on SNY and blacked out on ESPN+
I watched a few minutes early in the game on ESPN3.
Quote from: Al DeFlorioQuote from: upprdeckgame was on SNY and blacked out on ESPN+
I watched a few minutes early in the game on ESPN3.
he meant blacked out in the NY region
Quote from: ugarteQuote from: Al DeFlorioQuote from: upprdeckgame was on SNY and blacked out on ESPN+
I watched a few minutes early in the game on ESPN3.
he meant blacked out in the NY region
The game wasn't on ESPN+ anywhere. It was on ESPN3. That may have been blacked out in the NY region because SNY had the local rights.
Ugly win, but at least a win, over Lafayette 63-58 on the road in overtime. Josh Warren was huge -- 17 points and 7 rebounds. Very scary moment in the second half when Morgan landed wrong and looked to be in a lot of pain, but he came back into the game.
The LC announcers kept praising Cornell's defense, which was fine, but really Lafayette is just not very good.
Today is the annual trouncing. For all the kvetching on this board when Cornell played Delaware in football (Princeton. Dartmouth, and Colgate were all better than Delaware) this is a game I do not forward to. With an undersized team that I do not Project to make Ivy playoffs (maybe 6th place) it will be ugly in the Done.
Meanwhile on the ESPN that is working, CU keeping it close. 47-45 orange with 8:45 to go. Morgan has 21.
Quote from: jeff '84Meanwhile on the ESPN that is working, CU keeping it close. 47-45 orange with 8:45 to go. Morgan has 21.
Cornell got the lead at 48-47 and again at 50-49 but after that Syracuse locked down and won 63-55.
Guess I should watch I say-good showing for the Red. Morgan is a special athlete. Must say that Yale looks really good-beatinghe "U" down in Miami.
Quote from: rss77Guess I should watch I say-good showing for the Red. Morgan is a special athlete. Must say that Yale looks really good-beatinghe "U" down in Miami.
Hey, the last three times the guys stayed within 20 of Syracuse, they won the league. I wasn't in the mood to watch a 20 point drubbing and passed on watching. Looks like I chose poorly.
Yale also has a 17 point thrashing of Cal on their resume. The Bears aren't particularly good this year, but that's still a drubbing of a Pac-12 team.
Quote from: ugarteQuote from: jeff '84Meanwhile on the ESPN that is working, CU keeping it close. 47-45 orange with 8:45 to go. Morgan has 21.
Cornell got the lead at 48-47 and again at 50-49 but after that Syracuse locked down and won 63-55.
Not so much Syracuse locking down as Cornell getting cold on their 3-pointers. Several of the late Syracuse points came on fouls to stop the clock. A couple of more 3's and it would have been really close.
Penn 78, Villanova 75. This is going to be a long year for the Big Red.
Quote from: ugartePenn 78, Villanova 75. This is going to be a long year for the Big Red.
We're not a bad team by general Ivy standards, but Penn, Yale, and Harvard (when healthy) are quite strong this year. The rest of the teams, including Cornell, will likely jostle for the 4th spot in the Ivy tournament. I'm thinking another 6-8 league record is about where we'll finish. A shame too, because had Gettings stuck around, we'd be more of a factor.
Quote from: scoop85A shame too, because had Gettings stuck around, we'd be more of a factor.
Seems as if Donahue had stuck around, we'd be more of a factor...
Quote from: Scersk '97Quote from: scoop85A shame too, because had Gettings stuck around, we'd be more of a factor.
Seems as if Donahue had stuck around, we'd be more of a factor...
Only if he got lucky and had another confluence of Dale, Foote, and Wittman appearing on campus together.
Quote from: Al DeFlorioQuote from: Scersk '97Quote from: scoop85A shame too, because had Gettings stuck around, we'd be more of a factor.
Seems as if Donahue had stuck around, we'd be more of a factor...
Only if he got lucky and had another confluence of Dale, Foote, and Wittman appearing on campus together.
Not necessarily. At Penn he's winning with Brodeur, Woods, and Wang (http://www2.philly.com/college-sports/penn/penn-villanova-recap-score-upset-college-basketball-upenn-big-five-palestra-20181212.html). Penn is currently 9-2, with the losses coming to Kansas State and Oregon State.
Quote from: scoop85Quote from: ugartePenn 78, Villanova 75. This is going to be a long year for the Big Red.
We're not a bad team by general Ivy standards, but Penn, Yale, and Harvard (when healthy) are quite strong this year. The rest of the teams, including Cornell, will likely jostle for the 4th spot in the Ivy tournament. I'm thinking another 6-8 league record is about where we'll finish. A shame too, because had Gettings stuck around, we'd be more of a factor.
This isn't a bad Ivy team, more middle of the road, but it's a good year for the league. Penn, Yale and Harvard are top 100 teams and there aren't any truly awful teams (Columbia looked pretty bad to start the season have looked better as of late). 6-8 in the league is possible, but will be tough.
Gettings would have helped, obviously, but he probably wouldn't have been enough to close the gap to H,Y, and Penn.
Donahue would have had he not been married
Quote from: upprdeckDonahue would have had he not been married
I'm not sure what this is responding to but ... you think if he were single he wouldn't have taken the BC job? That's crazy talk.
Quote from: SwampyQuote from: Al DeFlorioQuote from: Scersk '97Quote from: scoop85A shame too, because had Gettings stuck around, we'd be more of a factor.
Seems as if Donahue had stuck around, we'd be more of a factor...
Only if he got lucky and had another confluence of Dale, Foote, and Wittman appearing on campus together.
Not necessarily. At Penn he's winning with Brodeur, Woods, and Wang (http://www2.philly.com/college-sports/penn/penn-villanova-recap-score-upset-college-basketball-upenn-big-five-palestra-20181212.html). Penn is currently 9-2, with the losses coming to Kansas State and Oregon State.
Yes, I know all that.
But his record at Cornell wasn't much until Dale, Foote, and Wittman appeared serendipitously on campus together. Whether he would have reverted to his mediocre recruiting form after those years we'll never know, but in my opinion it was likely. I didn't mourn his departure then and don't blame him for giving it a shot, but wasn't at all surprised when he failed at BC.
Penn basketball, I hope you realize, has a rather different history from Cornell's, and Penn is located in a city where basketball has been a big-time item for decades, and the Palestra is, well, the Palestra. Cornell and Ithaca and Alberding/Newman, not so much.
Quote from: Al DeFlorioQuote from: SwampyQuote from: Al DeFlorioQuote from: Scersk '97Quote from: scoop85A shame too, because had Gettings stuck around, we'd be more of a factor.
Seems as if Donahue had stuck around, we'd be more of a factor...
Only if he got lucky and had another confluence of Dale, Foote, and Wittman appearing on campus together.
Not necessarily. At Penn he's winning with Brodeur, Woods, and Wang (http://www2.philly.com/college-sports/penn/penn-villanova-recap-score-upset-college-basketball-upenn-big-five-palestra-20181212.html). Penn is currently 9-2, with the losses coming to Kansas State and Oregon State.
Yes, I know all that.
But his record at Cornell wasn't much until Dale, Foote, and Wittman appeared serendipitously on campus together. Whether he would have reverted to his mediocre recruiting form after those years we'll never know, but in my opinion it was likely. I didn't mourn his departure then and don't blame him for giving it a shot, but wasn't at all surprised when he failed at BC.
Penn basketball, I hope you realize, has a rather different history from Cornell's, and Penn is located in a city where basketball has been a big-time item for decades, and the Palestra is, well, the Palestra. Cornell and Ithaca and Alberding/Newman, not so much.
{Emphasis added to the quote}
Al, you may be forgetting that after two awful years, Steve's teams consistently improved and finished 2nd and 3rd in the league before any of the class of 2010 set foot on campus (Cornell had finished 3rd only twice between 1988 and 2004); that he recruited three Ivy Rookies of the Year that weren't part of the 2010 class (Collins, Gore and 'ski) and 9 players, other than Wittman, Dale and Foote, who were named to all-Ivy teams (totaling 3 first-team selections, 6 second-team, and 4 honorable mention). In the years since, Cornell has only recruited 4 all-Ivy players, and two bailed on the school before graduating. And while Penn certainly has significant basketball advantages over Cornell, the two prior Quaker coaches proved that you can't just show up and hope to win there.
The "Steve just got lucky" story was a favorite of Penn and Princeton fans because it allowed them to discount the Big Red titles as flukes -- Cornell wasn't a real champion like their teams were. Of course, Penn fans don't raise that as much anymore. No question there was luck involved in assembling the 2010 team, but it ignores how well Steve made the pieces work together.
Steve may not be a Ned Harkness of basketball, but he's a good coach. He's, at worst, the second best Cornell coach of all-time after Sam MacNeil (unless you really want to lobby for the work Albert Sharpe did a century ago). Who knows if Cornell would have won another Ivy title after 2010, maybe not, but the team would have been more relevant.
Quote from: Al DeFlorioQuote from: SwampyQuote from: Al DeFlorioQuote from: Scersk '97Quote from: scoop85A shame too, because had Gettings stuck around, we'd be more of a factor.
Seems as if Donahue had stuck around, we'd be more of a factor...
Only if he got lucky and had another confluence of Dale, Foote, and Wittman appearing on campus together.
Not necessarily. At Penn he's winning with Brodeur, Woods, and Wang (http://www2.philly.com/college-sports/penn/penn-villanova-recap-score-upset-college-basketball-upenn-big-five-palestra-20181212.html). Penn is currently 9-2, with the losses coming to Kansas State and Oregon State.
Yes, I know all that.
But his record at Cornell wasn't much until Dale, Foote, and Wittman appeared serendipitously on campus together. Whether he would have reverted to his mediocre recruiting form after those years we'll never know, but in my opinion it was likely. I didn't mourn his departure then and don't blame him for giving it a shot, but wasn't at all surprised when he failed at BC.
Penn basketball, I hope you realize, has a rather different history from Cornell's, and Penn is located in a city where basketball has been a big-time item for decades, and the Palestra is, well, the Palestra. Cornell and Ithaca and Alberding/Newman, not so much.
Yes, around 1970 I dated someone with family in Philly, and most of them had some association with Penn. At some function at one of her Philly relatives, an uncle said something like, "Cornell's basketball team isn't doing too well this year." And I responded, "Yeah, but the hockey team is doing great." Seeing the blank stares, I suddenly remembered I was in Philly, where they were fanatics for a different religion.
Quote from: SwampyQuote from: Al DeFlorioQuote from: SwampyQuote from: Al DeFlorioQuote from: Scersk '97Quote from: scoop85A shame too, because had Gettings stuck around, we'd be more of a factor.
Seems as if Donahue had stuck around, we'd be more of a factor...
Only if he got lucky and had another confluence of Dale, Foote, and Wittman appearing on campus together.
Not necessarily. At Penn he's winning with Brodeur, Woods, and Wang (http://www2.philly.com/college-sports/penn/penn-villanova-recap-score-upset-college-basketball-upenn-big-five-palestra-20181212.html). Penn is currently 9-2, with the losses coming to Kansas State and Oregon State.
Yes, I know all that.
But his record at Cornell wasn't much until Dale, Foote, and Wittman appeared serendipitously on campus together. Whether he would have reverted to his mediocre recruiting form after those years we'll never know, but in my opinion it was likely. I didn't mourn his departure then and don't blame him for giving it a shot, but wasn't at all surprised when he failed at BC.
Penn basketball, I hope you realize, has a rather different history from Cornell's, and Penn is located in a city where basketball has been a big-time item for decades, and the Palestra is, well, the Palestra. Cornell and Ithaca and Alberding/Newman, not so much.
Yes, around 1970 I dated someone with family in Philly, and most of them had some association with Penn. At some function at one of her Philly relatives, an uncle said something like, "Cornell's basketball team isn't doing too well this year." And I responded, "Yeah, but the hockey team is doing great." Seeing the blank stares, I suddenly remembered I was in Philly, where they were fanatics for a different religion.
It went so far that Penn dropped hockey as a sport.
Donahue is an excellent coach. Look how Cornell has fared after his departure. Bill Courtney went 60-113 during his 6 unsuccessful years. Brian Earl is 24-41 so far.
Quote from: CASDonahue is an excellent coach. Look how Cornell has fared after his departure. Bill Courtney went 60-113 during his 6 unsuccessful years. Brian Earl is 24-41 so far.
Absolutely. Even with the team he had, you don't get the likes of Dick Vitale saying, "Cornell put on a clinic against Wisconsin" without excellent coaching.
Quote from: SwampyQuote from: CASDonahue is an excellent coach. Look how Cornell has fared after his departure. Bill Courtney went 60-113 during his 6 unsuccessful years. Brian Earl is 24-41 so far.
Absolutely. Even with the team he had, you don't get the likes of Dick Vitale saying, "Cornell put on a clinic against Wisconsin" without excellent coaching.
His coaching and his philosophy of how the team members should treat each other was also apparently a big factor behind Foote's decision to transfer from St. Bonaventure. Foote's mom was a nurse at the hospital where Khaliq Gant was being treated after his spinal cord injury, and she was reportedly blown away by how much time and effort Donahue and the players spent making sure Gant knew he was still part of the team. It was terrible what happened to Gant, but without that, Foote probably keeps riding the bench for the Bonnies.
Quote from: mountainredSteve may not be a Ned Harkness of basketball, but he's a good coach. He's, at worst, the second best Cornell coach of all-time after Sam MacNeil (unless you really want to lobby for the work Albert Sharpe did a century ago).
MacNeil by the record may look pretty good, but I and everyone I knew thought he was a bad coach in terms of game-time decisions. If one has him as a contender, his predecessor, Royner Greene, needs to be as well, until he kind of lost it later in his tenure (separate the 46-47 through 53-54 seasons from then through 58-59). We were all calling for his dismissal in those later years. (I saw every home game he coached from the 48-49 season on.) I would put Donahue first, but it's hard to compare eras, with recruiting, for example, being very different.
Quote from: ugarteQuote from: upprdeckDonahue would have had he not been married
I'm not sure what this is responding to but ... you think if he were single he wouldn't have taken the BC job? That's crazy talk.
yup
Quote from: upprdeckQuote from: ugarteQuote from: upprdeckDonahue would have had he not been married
I'm not sure what this is responding to but ... you think if he were single he wouldn't have taken the BC job? That's crazy talk.
yup
I'm going to remain skeptical.
Quote from: Chuck HendersonQuote from: mountainredSteve may not be a Ned Harkness of basketball, but he's a good coach. He's, at worst, the second best Cornell coach of all-time after Sam MacNeil (unless you really want to lobby for the work Albert Sharpe did a century ago).
MacNeil by the record may look pretty good, but I and everyone I knew thought he was a bad coach in terms of game-time decisions. If one has him as a contender, his predecessor, Royner Greene, needs to be as well, until he kind of lost it later in his tenure (separate the 46-47 through 53-54 seasons from then through 58-59). We were all calling for his dismissal in those later years. (I saw every home game he coached from the 48-49 season on.) I would put Donahue first, but it's hard to compare eras, with recruiting, for example, being very different.
Thanks for the insight Chuck. Sam was before my time (Class of '88) so I just know the record (.637 overall, 8 top 4 Ivy finishes in 9 seasons, a couple of the most storied wins in school history). He was doing something right, so I didn't want to dismiss him, but I have to defer to you on his game-time decision-making.
Royner Greene is interesting. He had 2-3 really good seasons, a bunch of solid ones, but, like you said, really tailed off at the end. Both Sam and Royner were dealing with a league where the best team could be ranked in the top 10 and SD certainly never had to worry about that. And no question the game now is very different.
All that said, Steve's record stacks up with anyone who has coached here and he's certainly the best of the last half century.
Quote from: SwampyQuote from: CASDonahue is an excellent coach. Look how Cornell has fared after his departure. Bill Courtney went 60-113 during his 6 unsuccessful years. Brian Earl is 24-41 so far.
Absolutely. Even with the team he had, you don't get the likes of Dick Vitale saying, "Cornell put on a clinic against Wisconsin" without excellent coaching.
His record until the three bluebirds flew through his window was mediocre at best. Saying he was better than Courtney isn't saying much. Thinking we'd be where Penn is now under Donahue is fanciful. Cornell was 47 games below .500 overall and 22 below .500 in the league under Donahue before the fab three arrived. They made him look good and got him the BC job.
Yes, Donahue was a good guy. From all I could see Courtney was, too. And Archer.
Guess the players Coach K has recruited has made him look good too. And how many games did the Fab 3 play in the NBA?
Quote from: CASGuess the players Coach K has recruited has made him look good too. And how many games did the Fab 3 play in the NBA?
Irrelevant. Sorry to say.
Yup, Donahue was just lucky. 3 straight Ivy titles, including the Sweet 16, had nothing to do with coaching. Not responsible for attracting the players who played for him. The Fab 3 were all NBA lottery picks. Turning around Penn was pure luck again. Expect Brian Earl will be similarly lucky, & take us to the Elite 8 soon.
Quote from: Al DeFlorioQuote from: SwampyQuote from: CASDonahue is an excellent coach. Look how Cornell has fared after his departure. Bill Courtney went 60-113 during his 6 unsuccessful years. Brian Earl is 24-41 so far.
Absolutely. Even with the team he had, you don't get the likes of Dick Vitale saying, "Cornell put on a clinic against Wisconsin" without excellent coaching.
His record until the three bluebirds flew through his window was mediocre at best. Saying he was better than Courtney isn't saying much. Thinking we'd be where Penn is now under Donahue is fanciful. Cornell was 47 games below .500 overall and 22 below .500 in the league under Donahue before the fab three arrived. They made him look good and got him the BC job.
Yes, Donahue was a good guy. From all I could see Courtney was, too. And Archer.
I realize this is an inconvenient fact for your narrative, but, as I said before, Steve's teams finished 2nd and 3rd in the league before any of the class of 2010 set foot on campus.
I would love that level of mediocrity.
Quote from: CASYup, Donahue was just lucky. 3 straight Ivy titles, including the Sweet 16, had nothing to do with coaching. Not responsible for attracting the players who played for him. The Fab 3 were all NBA lottery picks. Turning around Penn was pure luck again. Expect Brian Earl will be similarly lucky, & take us to the Elite 8 soon.
No point in responding as so far, given what you've written above you've made no effort to understand what I write.
Donahue's family has remained in the Boston area while Donahue takes over the reins at Penn. Second-oldest son, Matthew, is a senior in high school and they didn't want to take him out of school.
Part of the reason BC and was so attractive to Donahue was the school systems in the Boston area. Matthew has the development disorder Asperger's syndrome, and the Donahues believed he'd have advanced support available in the Boston area.
Back to game action. The guys lose a lead late and lose at Niagara 77-74 despite Josh Warren's best game for the Red.
They come back the next night and hold on to a 70-64 win over Longwood thanks to crazy outside shooting (16 of 32 from behind the arc). Earl got some quality minutes from the Sophomores, as McBride, Boeheim, Kuhn, Knapp, and Voss contributed 32 points and 7 rebounds. On the other hand, Cornell had 20 turnovers and no inside offense. Longwood is terrible -- they needed overtime to beat D3 Frostburg State -- and had 21 turnovers of their own. Let's just say it wasn't a pretty game, but the Red found a way to win.
A tough week for the guys. On Wednesday they went to Toledo and, after taking an early lead, get clobbered on the boards losing 86-70. The Rockets are quite good, so losing by what the computers predicted was disappointing but not the end of the world.
Last night was a different story. SMU put together a 42-7 run over the middle of the game in route to an 81-53 win. Other than Morgan, no one looked like they belonged on the floor with the Mustangs. (Okay, Jake Kuhn hit a few threes, which was nice to see.)
Bart Torvik runs a basketball stat page (http://www.barttorvik.com/team.php?team=Cornell) that is NOT behind a paywall. He gives a game score for every game played against D1 competition on a scale from 0-100. Five times this year an Ivy team has earned a sub-10 score; three of those games belong to Cornell ('gate, Del, last night). I don't know exactly what that means, but it can't be good.
Lack of height and nobody has picked up Getting 's point production. Does not bode well for Ivies.
Didn't check this thread for a while. I came back to about 39 messages, meaning either the coach was fired (unlikely), Cornell has been on a winning streak (ibid), or we're having an excellent family feud. Right about now we should be reminiscing how awesome the Florida Hockey Tournament was.
Matt Morgan took over in the second half of a 61-50 win over Navy. After scoring just two points in the first half, Matt finished with 27. Steve Julian had a solid day: 9 points, 15 rebounds, 4 blocks. Otherwise, it was pretty ugly.
The final is a bit deceiving because Cornell scored the last nine; it was a one possession game with 2 minutes left.
Winning is always better than losing, but Navy is a bottom 50 team. Considering Brown just crushed San Diego State on the road and Princeton knocked off Arizona State, it's hard to get too excited over holding off the 3-8 Middies.
The final three OOC games are: a likely loss at Wake Forest (but Wake is a mess that has lost to Houston Baptist and Garner Webb at home this year, so who knows), a D3 game the guys should win easily and a toss-up at Towson.
Quote from: mountainredMatt Morgan took over in the second half of a 61-50 win over Navy. After scoring just two points in the first half, Matt finished with 27. Steve Julian had a solid day: 9 points, 15 rebounds, 4 blocks. Otherwise, it was pretty ugly.
The final is a bit deceiving because Cornell scored the last nine; it was a one possession game with 2 minutes left.
Winning is always better than losing, but Navy is a bottom 50 team. Considering Brown just crushed San Diego State on the road and Princeton knocked off Arizona State, it's hard to get too excited over holding off the 3-8 Middies.
The final three OOC games are: a likely loss at Wake Forest (but Wake is a mess that has lost to Houston Baptist and Garner Webb at home this year, so who knows), a D3 game the guys should win easily and a toss-up at Towson.
A fair description of the game. The entire team sleepwalked through the 1st half, and did enough in the 2nd half to beat a pretty bad Navy team. Morgan looked disinterested in the 1st half, with some lazy passes and poor shooting, but he was terrific in the 2nd half.
What could have been. Forbes did an article (https://www.forbes.com/sites/adamzagoria/2019/01/07/how-yales-miye-oni-went-from-division-3-college-commit-to-an-nba-prospect/#3a14f9f41a92) on Yale stud Miye Oni (who is now listed on NBA draft boards as a possible second round pick. The sad quote from the article: "Oni even attended Elite Camps at Stanford, Cornell and Penn. He really wanted to attend Cornell because his older sister, Oluwatoniloba, went to school there, 'but the coaches never recruited me.'"
{heavy sigh}
Quote from: mountainredWhat could have been. Forbes did an article (https://www.forbes.com/sites/adamzagoria/2019/01/07/how-yales-miye-oni-went-from-division-3-college-commit-to-an-nba-prospect/#3a14f9f41a92) on Yale stud Miye Oni (who is now listed on NBA draft boards as a possible second round pick. The sad quote from the article: "Oni even attended Elite Camps at Stanford, Cornell and Penn. He really wanted to attend Cornell because his older sister, Oluwatoniloba, went to school there, 'but the coaches never recruited me.'"
{heavy sigh}
heavy sigh indeed. Amazing how so many coaches (and not just at Cornell) miss out on talented players. Louis Dale is a perfect example. No one was recruiting him, and he turned out to be one of the best Ivy League players of the last 20 years.
After a slow start, it was a big night at Towson as the Hoops team finished the OOC schedule with an 86-74 win. After missing their first 10 or so three point attempts, Matt and the Red went on a 36-7 run to blow the game open. The Tigers owned the last minute to make the margin appear closer than it really was.
Morgan had a huge night. He finished with 38 points, in the process setting the arena record and giving him more than 2000 on his career. He'll almost certainly pass Ryan as the school's all-time leading scorer next Saturday v. Columbia. Warren played well: 18p, 5A; Julian had 11 rebounds and Boeheim reached double figures.
Towson isn't exactly Duke, but a blow out win on the road is a nice way to go into league play.
Thought this would be a good time to look at the numbers with the OOC season over and the team off for the weekend. If you ask the computers, Cornell remains a team just inside the top 250 (or basically the same as last year). Not surprisingly, the offense is down from last year. No one has replaced Gettings' offense, even though Boeheim and Warren have helped. The more surprising issue is the shooting drop-off for Julian and McBride. Last year they shot 59% from 2 pt range and 33% from 3 pt range; this year its 45% and 11%. Combine with that with the loss of Stone and a complete lack of offensive rebounding (never a strength under Earl) and you have the worst offense in the league.
The defense, however, is improved by the same amount. The key here is that the guys are vastly improved in three point D. Opponents are taking fewer 3s and hitting them at a substantially lower rate. That said, the defense remains poor, just not as terrible as last year's model.
The problem is that the league is a lot better. Harvard, Yale, Penn and Princeton are still rated well-above the Big Red by the computers. While some games were very close, Cornell was 1-8 against those four teams last year, and the one win needed 3 OTs and an epic Princeton meltdown. Brown and Dartmouth are much improved -- both teams are up 130 spots in the computers. Cornell swept the Bears and Green last year, but that sure looks unlikely this season. At least Columbia is about the same. Matching last year's 6-8 league record is going to take a lot of of things to break Cornell's way.
And Dartmouth blew out Harvard last night.
Possibly the worst half of basketballl I've ever seen. Completely clueless in half-court offense.
Quote from: Al DeFlorioPossibly the worst half of basketballl I've ever seen. Completely clueless in half-court offense.
And yet somehow they hold on for a 60-59 win.
Who is the main competition for a spot in the ivy tourney? Assuming Columbia is not?
Quote from: CU2007Who is the main competition for a spot in the ivy tourney? Assuming Columbia is not?
Despite two losses to Princeton while shorthanded by injuries, Penn should certainly make it. Princeton would be a solid choice, but their top player was just suspended after being arrested during an altercation at a Wawa. Yale will likely make it, and Harvard should be too. But Dartmouth just whipped Harvard by 18, so that throws a wrench into things a bit. And Brown has shown to be very competitive in non-league competition.
At this point I would think Columbia is probably the only school without a reasonable shot of getting in. Of the "top 4" I think Harvard surprisingly might be the most vulnerable, unless Canady does not make it back from suspension for Princeton. Bottom line I think it's a long shot for us to make it—not because we're terrible, because we're not, but mainly because the Ivies have probably not been this strong top-to-bottom in my lifetime.
Quote from: scoop85Quote from: Al DeFlorioPossibly the worst half of basketballl I've ever seen. Completely clueless in half-court offense.
And yet somehow they hold on for a 60-59 win.
I take it Al missed the Courtney years.
Quote from: scoop85Quote from: CU2007Who is the main competition for a spot in the ivy tourney? Assuming Columbia is not?
Despite two losses to Princeton while shorthanded by injuries, Penn should certainly make it. Princeton would be a solid choice, but their top player was just suspended after being arrested during an altercation at a Wawa. Yale will likely make it, and Harvard should be too. But Dartmouth just whipped Harvard by 18, so that throws a wrench into things a bit. And Brown has shown to be very competitive in non-league competition.
At this point I would think Columbia is probably the only school without a reasonable shot of getting in. Of the "top 4" I think Harvard surprisingly might be the most vulnerable, unless Canady does not make it back from suspension for Princeton. Bottom line I think it's a long shot for us to make it—not because we're terrible, because we're not, but mainly because the Ivies have probably not been this strong top-to-bottom in my lifetime.
Sadly, I don't think Cornell has a "reasonable shot" either, and for the reason Scoop gave, there are no gimmees in the league this year. Cornell was favored yesterday but is favored in just one more game the rest of the way. They'll pull off some upsets, but getting to even six league wins will be tough.
Quote from: mountainredQuote from: scoop85Quote from: CU2007Who is the main competition for a spot in the ivy tourney? Assuming Columbia is not?
Despite two losses to Princeton while shorthanded by injuries, Penn should certainly make it. Princeton would be a solid choice, but their top player was just suspended after being arrested during an altercation at a Wawa. Yale will likely make it, and Harvard should be too. But Dartmouth just whipped Harvard by 18, so that throws a wrench into things a bit. And Brown has shown to be very competitive in non-league competition.
At this point I would think Columbia is probably the only school without a reasonable shot of getting in. Of the "top 4" I think Harvard surprisingly might be the most vulnerable, unless Canady does not make it back from suspension for Princeton. Bottom line I think it's a long shot for us to make it—not because we're terrible, because we're not, but mainly because the Ivies have probably not been this strong top-to-bottom in my lifetime.
Sadly, I don't think Cornell has a "reasonable shot" either, and for the reason Scoop gave, there are no gimmees in the league this year. Cornell was favored yesterday but is favored in just one more game the rest of the way. They'll pull off some upsets, but getting to even six league wins will be tough.
Well, I did say it was a long-shot for us, so maybe you're right that I shouldn't say we have a "reasonable" chance to get in to the tournament.
Quote from: mountainredQuote from: scoop85Quote from: Al DeFlorioPossibly the worst half of basketballl I've ever seen. Completely clueless in half-court offense.
And yet somehow they hold on for a 60-59 win.
I take it Al missed the Courtney years.
Bullshit. Yesterday's second half was the worst. Earl's "system" isn't
.
Quote from: Al DeFlorioQuote from: mountainredQuote from: scoop85Quote from: Al DeFlorioPossibly the worst half of basketballl I've ever seen. Completely clueless in half-court offense.
And yet somehow they hold on for a 60-59 win.
I take it Al missed the Courtney years.
Bullshit. Yesterday's second half was the worst. Earl's "system" isn't
.
Yesterday was a dumpster fire, but I think Earl's system is somewhat better than Courtney's mess. Just not enough talent besides Morgan, which IS on Earl at this point.
Columbia couldn't miss in the second half. With space, swish. Hand in their face? Swish. Desperate shot before the buzzer? Swish. It was insane. Morgan had a bad game too, despite scoring 21.
And with all that, Boeheim scored 22 and Cornell came back from 11 down in the second half to get themselves in position for a final shot. Riley Voss took a 22 footer to tie at the buzzer, and it painfully rattled in-and-out.
The game was janky as hell in the first half but the second half was a lot of fun. Bad result but the team really didn't play as poorly on defense as Columbia's shooting numbers would suggest. They just couldn't miss.
Nice win against Penn tonight.
Yes Great win but the Cornell Sun has no coverage of game.
Quote from: rss77Yes Great win but the Cornell Sun has no coverage of game.
Agreed, it's weak.
Apparently The Sun has trouble attracting reporters in the digital era and to keep people on staff, they get to do pretty much whatever they want. Which I guess means they don't have to cover sports on the weekend unless they feel like it.
The men's hockey staff is very dedicated, which is why there was coverage during break, blogging during games and stories on the website immediately after the game ends.
Cornell's second half play ends in regulation tie, but the Big Red fall in OT to Princeton 61-70.
First win over Penn in 11 tries and the talk is about the Sun's coverage. Pretty telling about hoops' place in the Cornell sports hierarchy.
Not to dwell on old news, but the Arizona Daily Star did a story on Stone Gettings (https://tucson.com/sports/arizonawildcats/basketball/basketball-a-blessing-in-disguise-for-stone-gettings-who-wants/article_21ecb391-dfb4-5b8b-b16c-a6b1e685c100.html) in which Stone says Cornell's Financial Aid Department tripled his family's contribution before his Junior year (his sister, who was on scholarship, had graduated GW). That stuck with him and when he realized he could graduate early, he did. "It really became a burden when the amount changed and I had to start looking into it," Gettings said. "But I think it was a blessing in disguise."
Quote from: mountainredNot to dwell on old news, but the Arizona Daily Star did a story on Stone Gettings (https://tucson.com/sports/arizonawildcats/basketball/basketball-a-blessing-in-disguise-for-stone-gettings-who-wants/article_21ecb391-dfb4-5b8b-b16c-a6b1e685c100.html) in which Stone says Cornell's Financial Aid Department tripled his family's contribution before his Junior year (his sister, who was on scholarship, had graduated GW). That stuck with him and when he realized he could graduate early, he did. "It really became a burden when the amount changed and I had to start looking into it," Gettings said. "But I think it was a blessing in disguise."
OOF - but power to him for graduating early and helping his family (and himself) out.
Another highlight of the article is seeing the clear difference in the treatment that athletes get at the sports factory schools. He was basically a student who played basketball at Cornell; at Arizona, he's a prince.
Quote from: ugarteQuote from: mountainredNot to dwell on old news, but the Arizona Daily Star did a story on Stone Gettings (https://tucson.com/sports/arizonawildcats/basketball/basketball-a-blessing-in-disguise-for-stone-gettings-who-wants/article_21ecb391-dfb4-5b8b-b16c-a6b1e685c100.html) in which Stone says Cornell's Financial Aid Department tripled his family's contribution before his Junior year (his sister, who was on scholarship, had graduated GW). That stuck with him and when he realized he could graduate early, he did. "It really became a burden when the amount changed and I had to start looking into it," Gettings said. "But I think it was a blessing in disguise."
OOF - but power to him for graduating early and helping his family (and himself) out.
Another highlight of the article is seeing the clear difference in the treatment that athletes get at the sports factory schools. He was basically a student who played basketball at Cornell; at Arizona, he's a prince.
It's a good read. I didn't harbor any ill will toward Stone before, but it near impossible to do so afterwards. I can't imagine what it must be like for the 5 star kids Arizona recruits.
Quote from: ugarteQuote from: mountainredNot to dwell on old news, but the Arizona Daily Star did a story on Stone Gettings (https://tucson.com/sports/arizonawildcats/basketball/basketball-a-blessing-in-disguise-for-stone-gettings-who-wants/article_21ecb391-dfb4-5b8b-b16c-a6b1e685c100.html) in which Stone says Cornell's Financial Aid Department tripled his family's contribution before his Junior year (his sister, who was on scholarship, had graduated GW). That stuck with him and when he realized he could graduate early, he did. "It really became a burden when the amount changed and I had to start looking into it," Gettings said. "But I think it was a blessing in disguise."
OOF - but power to him for graduating early and helping his family (and himself) out.
Another highlight of the article is seeing the clear difference in the treatment that athletes get at the sports factory schools. He was basically a student who played basketball at Cornell; at Arizona, he's a prince.
I also think it says something about Cornell's coaches and team during the time he was here. For example, he says:
QuoteAt Cornell, I would cook for myself. Here, they make sure you have two or three great meals every day to make sure you're getting proper nutrition.
I understand how factory schools pay for athletes' meals and separate them out to eat in special dining halls, and I think it's awful. They should be students first and not segregated from the rest of the student body. I don't know for sure, but I wouldn't be surprised if the Ivy League has rules against such segregated practices. I hope it does.
But I'm reminded of what I read last year about Yale's
national champion lacrosse team: players were required to post pictures of their meals, and the captains would review and comment on what the players were eating. I don't know if Yale's coaches implemented this, but it certainly is a way for the team itself to oversee its nutrition without necessarily segregating the student-athletes or paying for their meals. It seems to me that if this is important, any IL team aspiring to be at the top would adopt similar practices.
He also mentions how
QuoteAt Cornell, I would have a rebounder come and get me occasionally (for shooting practice), whereas here if I want to shoot they have three.
Again, maybe IL limits on budget and staff might preclude this as a formal practice. But what would it take for a coach to find student volunteers to act as rebounders and schedule themselves to help team members practice regularly?
Similarly, the article says,
QuoteBasketball conditioning coach Chris Rounds is already working with Gettings to improve his athleticism and get his body fat down to 5 percent.
It's hard to believe the teams in sports at which we're most successful -- hockey and lacrosse come to mind -- don't already do this, but apparently not basketball. The only excuse would be if he were getting back into game shape. But given the long time between now and when he'll actually play games at UA and the fact the article doesn't frame it this way, it seems more likely that his current condition was acceptable at Cornell but subpar at UA. Yet any civilian student at Cornell should be able to go to the gym and work up a plan with a trainer. So even if IL rules limit training -- which they shouldn't since conditioning prevents injuries -- he could have had something at Cornell that's similar to what he's getting at UA. And if in fact Stone's current conditioning was acceptable at Cornell but not a UA, then this speaks volumes about Cornell's basketball program.
Quote from: SwampyQuote from: ugarteQuote from: mountainredNot to dwell on old news, but the Arizona Daily Star did a story on Stone Gettings (https://tucson.com/sports/arizonawildcats/basketball/basketball-a-blessing-in-disguise-for-stone-gettings-who-wants/article_21ecb391-dfb4-5b8b-b16c-a6b1e685c100.html) in which Stone says Cornell's Financial Aid Department tripled his family's contribution before his Junior year (his sister, who was on scholarship, had graduated GW). That stuck with him and when he realized he could graduate early, he did. "It really became a burden when the amount changed and I had to start looking into it," Gettings said. "But I think it was a blessing in disguise."
OOF - but power to him for graduating early and helping his family (and himself) out.
Another highlight of the article is seeing the clear difference in the treatment that athletes get at the sports factory schools. He was basically a student who played basketball at Cornell; at Arizona, he's a prince.
I also think it says something about Cornell's coaches and team during the time he was here. For example, he says:QuoteAt Cornell, I would cook for myself. Here, they make sure you have two or three great meals every day to make sure you're getting proper nutrition.
I understand how factory schools pay for athletes' meals and separate them out to eat in special dining halls, and I think it's awful. They should be students first and not segregated from the rest of the student body. I don't know for sure, but I wouldn't be surprised if the Ivy League has rules against such segregated practices. I hope it does.
But I'm reminded of what I read last year about Yale's national champion lacrosse team: players were required to post pictures of their meals, and the captains would review and comment on what the players were eating. I don't know if Yale's coaches implemented this, but it certainly is a way for the team itself to oversee its nutrition without necessarily segregating the student-athletes or paying for their meals. It seems to me that if this is important, any IL team aspiring to be at the top would adopt similar practices.
He also mentions how QuoteAt Cornell, I would have a rebounder come and get me occasionally (for shooting practice), whereas here if I want to shoot they have three.
Again, maybe IL limits on budget and staff might preclude this as a formal practice. But what would it take for a coach to find student volunteers to act as rebounders and schedule themselves to help team members practice regularly?
Similarly, the article says, QuoteBasketball conditioning coach Chris Rounds is already working with Gettings to improve his athleticism and get his body fat down to 5 percent.
It's hard to believe the teams in sports at which we're most successful -- hockey and lacrosse come to mind -- don't already do this, but apparently not basketball. The only excuse would be if he were getting back into game shape. But given the long time between now and when he'll actually play games at UA and the fact the article doesn't frame it this way, it seems more likely that his current condition was acceptable at Cornell but subpar at UA. Yet any civilian student at Cornell should be able to go to the gym and work up a plan with a trainer. So even if IL rules limit training -- which they shouldn't since conditioning prevents injuries -- he could have had something at Cornell that's similar to what he's getting at UA. And if in fact Stone's current conditioning was acceptable at Cornell but not a UA, then this speaks volumes about Cornell's basketball program.
As long as that Cornell student forks over the additional cash to get a gym membership, because the puny tuition bill can't cover luxuries like that.
Quote from: nshapiroQuote from: SwampyYet any civilian student at Cornell should be able to go to the gym and work up a plan with a trainer. So even if IL rules limit training -- which they shouldn't since conditioning prevents injuries -- he could have had something at Cornell that's similar to what he's getting at UA. And if in fact Stone's current conditioning was acceptable at Cornell but not a UA, then this speaks volumes about Cornell's basketball program.
As long as that Cornell student forks over the additional cash to get a gym membership, because the puny tuition bill can't cover luxuries like that.
Wow, things have sure changed. I remember going over and playing squash regularly with nothing but my student ID. But then again, that was before neoliberalism took over higher education.
One might think gym membership would be automatic for varsity team members. Or would this be considered non-need financial aid?
Quote from: SwampyQuote from: nshapiroAs long as that Cornell student forks over the additional cash to get a gym membership, because the puny tuition bill can't cover luxuries like that.
Wow, things have sure changed. I remember going over and playing squash regularly with nothing but my student ID. But then again, that was before neoliberalism took over higher education.
Geez, that's awful.
When I went to Michigan for grad school, I was at first taken aback by the constant nickle-and-diming, yet I came to see it as a symptom of declining support for public higher education in Michigan and elsewhere. The public/private nature of Cornell notwithstanding, it pains me to see the alma mater heading down that same path.
Quote from: SwampyQuote from: nshapiroQuote from: SwampyYet any civilian student at Cornell should be able to go to the gym and work up a plan with a trainer. So even if IL rules limit training -- which they shouldn't since conditioning prevents injuries -- he could have had something at Cornell that's similar to what he's getting at UA. And if in fact Stone's current conditioning was acceptable at Cornell but not a UA, then this speaks volumes about Cornell's basketball program.
As long as that Cornell student forks over the additional cash to get a gym membership, because the puny tuition bill can't cover luxuries like that.
Wow, things have sure changed. I remember going over and playing squash regularly with nothing but my student ID. But then again, that was before neoliberalism took over higher education.
One might think gym membership would be automatic for varsity team members. Or would this be considered non-need financial aid?
All varsity athletes can work out at the Friedman Center as they please.
Quote from: Scersk '97Quote from: SwampyQuote from: nshapiroAs long as that Cornell student forks over the additional cash to get a gym membership, because the puny tuition bill can't cover luxuries like that.
Wow, things have sure changed. I remember going over and playing squash regularly with nothing but my student ID. But then again, that was before neoliberalism took over higher education.
Geez, that's awful.
When I went to Michigan for grad school, I was at first taken aback by the constant nickle-and-diming, yet I came to see it as a symptom of declining support for public higher education in Michigan and elsewhere. The public/private nature of Cornell notwithstanding, it pains me to see the alma mater heading down that same path.
Not just heading down that path, but fully committed to pissing off parents, many of whom are alumni. It starts when Cornell invites you to register for your freshman child's parents weekend - $15/person, and that gets you a nametag badge and the right to pay to attend other events that weekend.
Financial aid is pretty subjective. Would Getting's financial package been the same at the other Ivies given his sister's graduation-hard to say. On the resources that Gettings has been given at Arizona-much of that comes from the TV revenues the Power 5 schools get. It brings what Mike Shafer said at a sports luncheon:. Michigan State's traveling had 40 people wherein Cornell when it goes on the road is 26.
Quote from: rss77Financial aid is pretty subjective. Would Getting's financial package been the same at the other Ivies given his sister's graduation-hard to say. On the resources that Gettings has been given at Arizona-much of that comes from the TV revenues the Power 5 schools get. It brings what Mike Shafer said at a sports luncheon:. Michigan State's traveling had 40 people wherein Cornell when it goes on the road is 26.
Once his sister graduated and her college costs went away, his family's need went down, and so his financial aid dropped accordingly. Not sure why it would be different at any need-based aid Ivy. If he's got athletic scholarship aid at Arizona, there's no 'need' requirement and they can give him whatever they want within the total basketball athletic scholarship limit for Division I. Whole different ballgame.
Quote from: rss77Financial aid is pretty subjective. Would Getting's financial package been the same at the other Ivies given his sister's graduation-hard to say. On the resources that Gettings has been given at Arizona-much of that comes from the TV revenues the Power 5 schools get. It brings what Mike Shafer said at a sports luncheon:. Michigan State's traveling had 40 people wherein Cornell when it goes on the road is 26.
Good point. But my criticisms were directed at the Cornell coaches & players for, what sounded like, not working around resource constraints. The particular resources mentioned in the article are not out of reach for an Ivy school, even if there's not enough in the budget to pay for them outright. Yale's practice of team members monitoring teammates' nutrition is a good example of ensuring certain eating habits without recourse to an athletic dining hall.
If the article had talked about the team flying on a private jet rather than taking a commercial flight, that would be a horse of a different color.
Cornell wins a close game over Dartmouth 83-80.
Morgan hits 9 of 11 threes, scores 41 in 83-80 win.
Quote from: Al DeFlorioMorgan hits 9 of 11 threes, scores 41 in 83-80 win.
OK, that's impressive.
Likely to be lost in Morgan's career high is that Warren went 4 for 4 at the line in the closing seconds.
Watching the archived game. Morgan's first points came on a layup 7:21 into the game. Then he closed the half with 12 points in the last 3:13.
So, the good guys go into Harvard and win 67-61 on a night where Morgan was off his game. Did not see that coming, even after Harvard went to 3 OTs yesterday.
67-61 win at Harvard after trailing by 13 at halftime.
Cornell is now in a three way tie for second in the league, two games clear of Brown, Dartmouth and Penn. Hard to believe this is the same team that lost to Niagara and was pounded by Delaware. Hats off to them.
Scoop, you may have been right about the reasonable chance for the ILT.
Quote from: mountainredSo, the good guys go into Harvard and win 67-61 on a night where Morgan was off his game. Did not see that coming, even after Harvard went to 3 OTs yesterday.
Having saw the halftime score, I didn't believe this post when I first saw it. Watching the replay now, and still not sure how they did it.
Quote from: semsoxQuote from: mountainredSo, the good guys go into Harvard and win 67-61 on a night where Morgan was off his game. Did not see that coming, even after Harvard went to 3 OTs yesterday.
Having saw the halftime score, I didn't believe this post when I first saw it. Watching the replay now, and still not sure how they did it.
Similar reaction watching the replay this morning. Two thoughts: (1) Cornell's defense stepped up in the second half; (2) Unlike Cornell, where Boeheim and McBride (his trey was the dagger) stepped up with Morgan in foul trouble, no Harvard player other than Aiken was willing to do the same, so Aiken had to make some poor shot choices in crunch time.
Quote from: Al DeFlorioQuote from: semsoxQuote from: mountainredSo, the good guys go into Harvard and win 67-61 on a night where Morgan was off his game. Did not see that coming, even after Harvard went to 3 OTs yesterday.
Having saw the halftime score, I didn't believe this post when I first saw it. Watching the replay now, and still not sure how they did it.
Similar reaction watching the replay this morning. Two thoughts: (1) Cornell's defense stepped up in the second half; (2) Unlike Cornell, where Boeheim and McBride (his trey was the dagger) stepped up with Morgan in foul trouble, no Harvard player other than Aiken was willing to do the same, so Aiken had to make some poor shot choices in crunch time.
Juzang was willing to shoot too, and nailed a few clutch shots, but he got hurt and missed part of the second half. In addition to hitting threes, Cornell played consistent, solid defense, rebounded well and hit their free throws.
Quote from: ugarteQuote from: Al DeFlorioQuote from: semsoxQuote from: mountainredSo, the good guys go into Harvard and win 67-61 on a night where Morgan was off his game. Did not see that coming, even after Harvard went to 3 OTs yesterday.
Having saw the halftime score, I didn't believe this post when I first saw it. Watching the replay now, and still not sure how they did it.
Similar reaction watching the replay this morning. Two thoughts: (1) Cornell's defense stepped up in the second half; (2) Unlike Cornell, where Boeheim and McBride (his trey was the dagger) stepped up with Morgan in foul trouble, no Harvard player other than Aiken was willing to do the same, so Aiken had to make some poor shot choices in crunch time.
Juzang was willing to shoot too, and nailed a few clutch shots, but he got hurt and missed part of the second half. In addition to hitting threes, Cornell played consistent, solid defense, rebounded well and hit their free throws.
Don't forget Warren (14p, 5a) -- he's played very well the last two weeks. Cornell was very opportunistic -- they outscored Harvard in points off turnovers 31-12.
Quote from: mountainredQuote from: ugarteQuote from: Al DeFlorioQuote from: semsoxQuote from: mountainredSo, the good guys go into Harvard and win 67-61 on a night where Morgan was off his game. Did not see that coming, even after Harvard went to 3 OTs yesterday.
Having saw the halftime score, I didn't believe this post when I first saw it. Watching the replay now, and still not sure how they did it.
Similar reaction watching the replay this morning. Two thoughts: (1) Cornell's defense stepped up in the second half; (2) Unlike Cornell, where Boeheim and McBride (his trey was the dagger) stepped up with Morgan in foul trouble, no Harvard player other than Aiken was willing to do the same, so Aiken had to make some poor shot choices in crunch time.
Juzang was willing to shoot too, and nailed a few clutch shots, but he got hurt and missed part of the second half. In addition to hitting threes, Cornell played consistent, solid defense, rebounded well and hit their free throws.
Don't forget Warren (14p, 5a) -- he's played very well the last two weeks. Cornell was very opportunistic -- they outscored Harvard in points off turnovers 31-12.
It's not the focus of our offense but it definitely helps that Warren will hit open looks from 3. Harvard didn't guard him deep and he knocked down a pair and is shooting close to 40% from deep on the season. The more people have to come out to check him, the more it opens up the paint for Morgan to drive.
I'm trying to be restrained because top to bottom the league is very close, so there is going to be a lot of churn in the standings, but I think this team is going to make the ILT . The upcoming Yale game is going to be a real test. Even with Yale's great start, they got blown out by Harvard so they are hardly untouchable.
Pulled it out even with a less than stellar Morgan performance.
splitting with Columbia is going to haunt them
Quote from: upprdeckPulled it out even with a less than stellar Morgan performance.
splitting with Columbia is going to haunt them
We're marginally better than Columbia, so splitting with them—who have lost a lot of close games—is not surprising. We'll likely need to go 3-4 to make the ILT, and that is still a tall order IMO
i dont see much difference between any of the Ivy teams.
The closeness of the games reflects the strength of the league in all 8 teams. The game tonight will turn on how well Julian can defend Miya Oni and at the same time stay out of foul trouble.
Back and forth game but Yale hit 17 free throws in a row at one point and killed us on the boards. 98-92 Yale. The team shot well and defended well late but the refs made a couple of dubious calls on loose balls to undermine the effort.
As everyone is saying, we could win or lose any game in this league. I don't ever remember that being the case.
the size advantage Yale has is just too dominant.. Still Cornell had a couple shots late if they get those couple calls
too bad last night Yale missed all those FTs
2 game lead on penn/brown with 6 to go..
It's a brutal stretch -- 2 games with first place Yale sandwiching the historically difficult Penn/Princeton road trip. Just one of those will be huge because the win over Harvard will help with tie-breakers.
Turned it on after a disappointing hockey game, saw us down by around 10 with under a minute left on the road, turned it off. Lost 68-59 on the road.
Still in 4th with a one game lead on Brown.
they were down somewhere around 20 middle of the 2nd. had it down to 2 and had the ball multiple times to take the lead couldn't make a shot and then it slipped away late after it was 4 for a good chunk of time.
yeesh blown out by Penn. rough weekend.
Quote from: ugarteyeesh blown out by Penn. rough weekend.
Led by 2 at the half but outscored 38 - 18 second half.
So many mental mistakes. Lost track of how many travels they had.
To get to playoffs Boeheim and others will have to start putting more points in the basket. They are playing good defense which has kept them in games. The rest of the season teams will do what Penn did which was sagging off other players and double teaming Morgan. Going forward I hope Earl can bring some point producers into the fold.
Quote from: rss77To get to playoffs Boeheim and others will have to start putting more points in the basket. They are playing good defense which has kept them in games. The rest of the season teams will do what Penn did which was sagging off other players and double teaming Morgan. Going forward I hope Earl can bring some point producers into the fold.
The first video in this link (https://www.thehoophustle.com/news_article/show/989072#.XE4Y5iNuKKY.twitter) features the recruit who looks like the best hope on that front. Jones missed his 8th and 9th grade years to an autoimmune problem, so maybe he slipped under the radar.
If the guys win at Brown, they'll have a decent path to the ILT so long as they also beat Dartmouth at home. Penn would need to go 3-1 to force a tie (beating Harvard or Yale) and Brown would need to sweep the Penn/Princeton road trip to finish ahead of Cornell (since the Red would have the tie breaker). Lose to Brown, and an awful lot would have to go right the last weekend.
Brown ends first half with 12-2 run to lead 33-28.
60-42 so far Cornell came out flat after half-time. Looks like another away loss.
Cornell loses to Brown 75-51. Out-scored this weekend 116-163. With a 5 game losing streak this team is trending down at the wrong time.
Quote from: Ken711Cornell loses to Brown 75-51. Out-scored this weekend 116-163. With a 5 game losing streak this team is trending down at the wrong time.
Yea, baring a miracle next weekend, they choked away a nice cushion in the league standings and it ends next Saturday night
Quote from: CU2007Quote from: Ken711Cornell loses to Brown 75-51. Out-scored this weekend 116-163. With a 5 game losing streak this team is trending down at the wrong time.
Yea, baring a miracle next weekend, they choked away a nice cushion in the league standings and it ends next Saturday night
Choke is too strong -- they were the underdog in all five of their losses -- but they did stink this past weekend when they could least afford it.
A sweep this weekend at home (it could happen, they swept Harvard and Dartmouth on the road) and the four seed remains a possibility. But it has to be a sweep.
The Guys bounced back impressively beating Harvard 72-59, Morgan with 31.
In the end, it won't matter. Brown and Penn both won, so they meet tomorrow in what is basically a play-in game. Cornell loses the tiebreaker to Penn if all three teams tie at 7-7.
I wonder if they could get a CIT berth at 15-15....
Quote from: mountainredThe Guys bounced back impressively beating Harvard 72-59, Morgan with 31.
In the end, it won't matter. Brown and Penn both won, so they meet tomorrow in what is basically a play-in game. Cornell loses the tiebreaker to Penn if all three teams tie at 7-7.
I wonder if they could get a CIT berth at 15-15....
The Ivies are crazy this year. Too bad we'll fall a but short. But it would be great if we could get the win tomorrow and be invited to the CIT or CBI (or whatever they're called) so that Morgan's Cornell career can be extended.
at .500 i think they would get a bid.
I think they could. The CIT has invited Ivies in the past -- Columbia has won the thing and Yale was a runner-up -- and I think they are struggling to fill their bracket. Last year they only had 20 teams.
Since the Sweet 16 season, every Ivy other than Cornell has played in some kind of post-season tournament. Even fricking Dartmouth.
Props to Cornell women's hoops for getting into the Ivy Tournament.
So, who had Morgan's string of double figure games ending on senior night? Crazy. Cornell still wins 66-51 to finish .500 and tied for 4th. Now, we wait for the CIT.
Matt is, not surprisingly, a unanimous pick for first-team all-Ivy. The only Cornellian to make the all-Ivy announcement. He's the second Cornell player to be a unanimous all-Ivy pick more than once (Witt did three times).
He's also only the 6th guy in Big Red history to be named first-team more than once.
Quote from: mountainredMatt is, not surprisingly, a unanimous pick for first-team all-Ivy. The only Cornellian to make the all-Ivy announcement. He's the second Cornell player to be a unanimous all-Ivy pick more than once (Witt did three times). He's also only the 6th guy in Big Red history to be named first-team more than once.
Cornell should compose a Beowulf-like poem, or song, about him. It would probably be titled, Against the Odds. Unless that has been reserved for our FOGOs.
Another recruit, Earl's third from the prep school ranks: PG Greg Dolan was second team all-league for the big schools where he set up PoY, and Harvard recruit, Chris Ledlum. Jordan Jones was the Class A (which looks about the middle) Player of the Year.
Dolan won't help replace Julian, but he had a lot of interest from mid-majors and this team is shallow at PG.
Cornell hoops to get some postseason action too:
https://twitter.com/rmumbasketball/status/1107430120250322945
Quote from: scoop85Cornell hoops to get some postseason action too
well all right!
Quote from: ugarteQuote from: scoop85Cornell hoops to get some postseason action too
well all right!
Winnable game too, though these non-NCAA tournaments often come down to who actually wants to be there.
Quote from: scoop85Cornell hoops to get some postseason action too:
Very cool, and congratulations to the men's basketball team. With the NCAA, NIT, CBI and CIT, there are now 144(!) men's teams that make it to some sort of postseason, although after the NCAA, nobody cares except people associated with the programs in the other tournaments, or fans of teams who rarely if ever make the NCAA. It does mean that any sort of winning record gets you a shot at some sort of postseason.
It's hard to argue with this article from two years ago:
Four postseason tournaments is 2 or 3 too many (https://www.deseretnews.com/article/865675581/Four-postseason-tournaments-is-2-or-3-too-many.html)
Quote from: Doug Robinson, Desert Newsthis isn't about basketball and postseason glory; it's about TV and money. It's filling airtime on TV and selling ad revenue. It's squeezing the last dollar possible out of "student-athletes." As writer Andy Hutchins wrote, it "functions as a way for college athletics to funnel money to people outside athletic departments."
All true, but there are a bunch of kids whose seasons aren't over thanks to the extra tournaments. I may be naive, but there must some of the kids who will enjoy a chance to keep playing basketball.
Quote from: djk26Quote from: scoop85Cornell hoops to get some postseason action too:
Very cool, and congratulations to the men's basketball team. With the NCAA, NIT, CBI and CIT, there are now 144(!) men's teams that make it to some sort of postseason, although after the NCAA, nobody cares except people associated with the programs in the other tournaments, or fans of teams who rarely if ever make the NCAA. It does mean that any sort of winning record gets you a shot at some sort of postseason.
It's hard to argue with this article from two years ago:
Four postseason tournaments is 2 or 3 too many (https://www.deseretnews.com/article/865675581/Four-postseason-tournaments-is-2-or-3-too-many.html)
Quote from: Doug Robinson, Desert Newsthis isn't about basketball and postseason glory; it's about TV and money. It's filling airtime on TV and selling ad revenue. It's squeezing the last dollar possible out of "student-athletes." As writer Andy Hutchins wrote, it "functions as a way for college athletics to funnel money to people outside athletic departments."
All true, but there are a bunch of kids whose seasons aren't over thanks to the extra tournaments. I may be naive, but there must some of the kids who will enjoy a chance to keep playing basketball.
Consider a young team, with mostly frosh & sophomores, 1 or 2 juniors, and no seniors. The team didn't start to gel until late February, so its W-L record would not get it into the dance. When it got to its conference tournament not only did its mediocre seed cause it to take on the strongest teams in its conference, but scheduling (e.g., late game one night, early game the next) also worked to its disadvantage. The team got knocked out in a tight game against the eventual conference champion. To do better next year, the team needs to cement the chemistry that developed over the last month and to get more tournament experience.
If a student-athlete has enough enthusiasm to play the game and devote considerable time to the sport, then it's hard to believe the player wouldn't want to spend another week or so playing in a tournament -- not only for the fun of it, but also to build towards something special the coming academic year.
Quote from: SwampyTo do better next year, the team needs to cement the chemistry that developed over the last month and to get more tournament experience.
That's true, too. I was thinking about the senior who gets to play basketball for a few more games with his team, but it's also helpful for a young team to gain more experience.
Quote from: djk26Quote from: SwampyTo do better next year, the team needs to cement the chemistry that developed over the last month and to get more tournament experience.
That's true, too. I was thinking about the senior who gets to play basketball for a few more games with his team, but it's also helpful for a young team to gain more experience.
Just like all the bowl games help the next years team. Coaches will almost always say the extra practice really helps. But of course it's much more practice time added in football than b-ball.
Quote from: Jim HylaQuote from: djk26Quote from: SwampyTo do better next year, the team needs to cement the chemistry that developed over the last month and to get more tournament experience.
That's true, too. I was thinking about the senior who gets to play basketball for a few more games with his team, but it's also helpful for a young team to gain more experience.
Just like all the bowl games help the next years team. Coaches will almost always say the extra practice really helps. But of course it's much more practice time added in football than b-ball.
Extra practice can't hurt, but more practice/game(s) with Morgan and Julian probably isn't that useful in preparing for next year. Still, it's a nice way to send off one of the best players in school history.
Quote from: mountainredQuote from: Jim HylaQuote from: djk26Quote from: SwampyTo do better next year, the team needs to cement the chemistry that developed over the last month and to get more tournament experience.
That's true, too. I was thinking about the senior who gets to play basketball for a few more games with his team, but it's also helpful for a young team to gain more experience.
Just like all the bowl games help the next years team. Coaches will almost always say the extra practice really helps. But of course it's much more practice time added in football than b-ball.
Extra practice can't hurt, but more practice/game(s) with Morgan and Julian probably isn't that useful in preparing for next year. Still, it's a nice way to send off one of the best players in school history.
Just to be clear, my example was hypothetical and aimed at arguing in favor of the lesser post-season tournaments. I didn't mean for it to apply to the Big Red.
Looks like NEC games are carried by Front Row. This is the Robert Morris channel: http://necfrontrow.com/schools.php?title=RMU
40-37 Red at half.
http://www.watchcit.com/?media=3d012375-167f-4c56-b1a0-214d0f9b12b0
In the always-exciting CIT, Cornell up by three at halftime after leading in double digits. Robert Morris player hit a buzzer-beater from near midcourt to close out the first half. The Robert Morris announcers are some of the worse I've heard. At one point, it seemed like Boeheim scored 20 straight points for Cornell and the announcers are raving about how he probably already has scored a career high, but not once did they mention how many point he has actually scored. Quiet first half for Morgan.
Now 67-66 RMU after an 11-point second half lead disappears.
Cornell ends regulation time tied. Loses 98-89 in OT.
Disappointing OT loss. Robert Morris couldn't miss in OT and blew it open 98-89.
Boeheim was on fire in the first half, Matt was Matt one last time and a lot of weirdness. Joel Davis never played. Warren started, played 8 minutes and left the game. That resulted in 20 minutes of Riley Voss, who looked okay, and some key second half minutes with both Kobe Dickson and Thurston McCarty on the floor.
Very winnable game, RMU is awful, that was not won.
Quote from: mountainredDisappointing OT loss. Robert Morris couldn't miss in OT and blew it open 98-89.
Boeheim was on fire in the first half, Matt was Matt one last time and a lot of weirdness. Joel Davis never played. Warren started, played 8 minutes and left the game. That resulted in 20 minutes of Riley Voss, who looked okay, and some key second half minutes with both Kobe Dickson and Thurston McCarty on the floor.
Very winnable game, RMU is awful, that was not won.
The announcers (who were abysmal) did say Cornell had some injuries—maybe Davis was hurt. Hard to imagine he wouldn't have gotten any PT otherwise. Truly weird game in a strange looking high school type gym. Guys who hardly played all year got minutes.
Quote from: scoop85Quote from: mountainredDisappointing OT loss. Robert Morris couldn't miss in OT and blew it open 98-89.
Boeheim was on fire in the first half, Matt was Matt one last time and a lot of weirdness. Joel Davis never played. Warren started, played 8 minutes and left the game. That resulted in 20 minutes of Riley Voss, who looked okay, and some key second half minutes with both Kobe Dickson and Thurston McCarty on the floor.
Very winnable game, RMU is awful, that was not won.
The announcers (who were abysmal) did say Cornell had some injuries—maybe Davis was hurt. Hard to imagine he wouldn't have gotten any PT otherwise. Truly weird game in a strange looking high school type gym. Guys who hardly played all year got minutes.
The announcers and the gym (RMU is building a new one, so they played in their version of Helen Newman Hall) didn't help the overall atmosphere. I did hear the broadcasters mention injuries, but they also said Boeheim doesn't start, so I assumed they didn't know what they were talking about.
The absence of Warren and Davis exposed the team's lack of depth; the drop off after the main four players is (was?) sizeable.
This probably should be under Basketball 2019-20, but it seems too early to start that thread.
Bart Torvik has already issued his preliminary 2019-20 rankings (http://www.barttorvik.com/trankpre.php):
Ivy ranks:
36. Harvard
53. Penn
114. Princeton
133. Columbia
163. Dartmouth
170. Brown
183. Yale
286. Cornell
Next year looked rough, but the projected gap between Cornell and the rest of the league is brutal.
woof
2019-20 thread created.
Matt Morgan is playing for the Raptors in the NBA summer league. Had 11 points off the bench the other night.
Quote from: CU2007Matt Morgan is playing for the Raptors in the NBA summer league. Had 11 points off the bench the other night.
they signed him! https://twitter.com/Raptors/status/1184836179470049281
Quote from: ugarteQuote from: CU2007Matt Morgan is playing for the Raptors in the NBA summer league. Had 11 points off the bench the other night.
they signed him! https://twitter.com/Raptors/status/1184836179470049281
Good for him. He'll certainly be G League bound, but he'll have a chance to develop his game, and maybe he can carve out a career like Jeremy Lin?