ELynah Forum

It's time to start a "Men's Basketball (2017-2018)" thread.

Incoming recruits (http://cornellbigred.com/news/2017/5/22/mens-basketball-mens-hoops-adds-six-to-class-of-2021.aspx).

It's an interesting class.  All of the six could be useful contributors, though the odds are that it won't "click" at the D1 level for at least one. Julian, Kuhn, and Voss could help with rebounding; Boeheim and Knapp look like potential 3pt snipers (though Knapp may need a year to get up to speed the same way Eitan did); and McBride was a combo guard at a high level in high school ball.

The downside is that there is nobody who looks like a potential All-Ivy player, which probably puts our class as no better than 6th in the league along with Brown and Dartmouth.  Here's hoping Coach Earl has found some guys who fit in his system.

The way the release is written, everybody sounds fabulous. We could start five newcomers and win the Ivy tournament.

Quote from: mountainredIt's an interesting class.  All of the six could be useful contributors, though the odds are that it won't "click" at the D1 level for at least one. Julian, Kuhn, and Voss could help with rebounding; Boeheim and Knapp look like potential 3pt snipers (though Knapp may need a year to get up to speed the same way Eitan did); and McBride was a combo guard at a high level in high school ball.

The downside is that there is nobody who looks like a potential All-Ivy player, which probably puts our class as no better than 6th in the league along with Brown and Dartmouth.  Here's hoping Coach Earl has found some guys who fit in his system.

McBride could be a sleeper. He played very respectably on a top-tier team loaded with talent. His respectable-but-not-breathtaking numbers probably reflect the overall quality of his teammates. Obviously college will be more challenging than high school, but after he acclimates he could surprise.

Also, I'd choose balance over having a single all-star. We'll just have to see how this group stacks up as a group. Did you make a comparison against the recruiting classes of the other five teams, or are you just guessing they've all recruited at least one potential All-Ivy?

Quote from: Swampy

Quote from: mountainredIt's an interesting class.  All of the six could be useful contributors, though the odds are that it won't "click" at the D1 level for at least one. Julian, Kuhn, and Voss could help with rebounding; Boeheim and Knapp look like potential 3pt snipers (though Knapp may need a year to get up to speed the same way Eitan did); and McBride was a combo guard at a high level in high school ball.

The downside is that there is nobody who looks like a potential All-Ivy player, which probably puts our class as no better than 6th in the league along with Brown and Dartmouth.  Here's hoping Coach Earl has found some guys who fit in his system.

McBride could be a sleeper. He played very respectably on a top-tier team loaded with talent. His respectable-but-not-breathtaking numbers probably reflect the overall quality of his teammates. Obviously college will be more challenging than high school, but after he acclimates he could surprise.

Also, I'd choose balance over having a single all-star. We'll just have to see how this group stacks up as a group. Did you make a comparison against the recruiting classes of the other five teams, or are you just guessing they've all recruited at least one potential All-Ivy?

I hope you are right on McBride.  He was the 5th option on a team where his teammates are headed to UCLA, Ariz. St., San Diego St., plus maybe the top recruit in the country next year.  I have no doubt he's talented, but is he a stud on a team of max-level studs, or a good player who is picking up stats because he isn't a focus and gets matched up with the other team's worst starter?  Here is the ESPN bottom line:  "McBride is a solid looking prospect and if he continues to work on his all around skill set and savvy, he should be able to play at the next level."  

As far as the the other Ivies, I have a decent idea of who is going where, though I am not claiming to be a scout.  Columbia has the top-ranked recruit in PF/C Jaron Faulds; he is a four star recruit according to ESPN.  Princeton has a pair of ESPN three stars (Sebastian Much and Jerome Desrosiers) and a two star.  Penn has a three star in Jelani Williams and a two star.  Harvard has a three star and a two star, plus a kid from Canada who is said to be very good.  Yale has a two star guard, Dartmouth a pair of two star players, and Brown a two star forward.  In retrospect, I may have oversold the Elis, but James Jones normally gets the max out of his team.

Meanwhile, McBride is Cornell's highest rated recruit where he is one of the four guys ESPN gives one star (not Voss or Julian).  Stars aren't everything (ESPN had Galal Cancer as a two star recruit and Shonn Miller as just a one), but they are an impartial, if subjective, way to measure recruiting classes.  And in hoops, I would rather have one difference-maker, such as Shonn Miller, than four solid players, though Coach Earl may disagree.

Just saw on Twitter that David Onourah will play next year as a grad student at UConn. Nice opportunity for him to use his athleticism to add defense and rebounding in what I assume will be a reserve role.

Quote from: scoop85Just saw on Twitter that David Onourah will play next year as a grad student at UConn. Nice opportunity for him to use his athleticism to add defense and rebounding in what I assume will be a reserve role.

Thanks Scoop.  I was hoping -- without good reason -- that he disappeared so he could save a year of eligibility for us.  Can't fault him for having UConn pay for a year of grad school.

Quote from: scoop85Just saw on Twitter that David Onourah will play next year as a grad student at UConn. Nice opportunity for him to use his athleticism to add defense and rebounding in what I assume will be a reserve role.

Reserves count toward the team GPA as much as the starting five. More, in some ways.

Not sure what UConn sees in Onourah.  He was not a good player at the Ivy League level and really did not evolve as a player during his time at Cornell.  Wish him well though

Quote from: rss77Not sure what UConn sees in Onourah.  He was not a good player at the Ivy League level and really did not evolve as a player during his time at Cornell.  Wish him well though

David was always a decent rebounder and shot blocker, even if his offensive game never came around.  UConn graduated all three of their starting front court players and doesn't have a lot of returning players.  I bet David can give the Huskies some solid minutes off the bench, especially while their freshmen learn the game.

Quote from: mountainred

Quote from: rss77Not sure what UConn sees in Onourah.  He was not a good player at the Ivy League level and really did not evolve as a player during his time at Cornell.  Wish him well though

David was always a decent rebounder and shot blocker, even if his offensive game never came around.  UConn graduated all three of their starting front court players and doesn't have a lot of returning players.  I bet David can give the Huskies some solid minutes off the bench, especially while their freshman learn the game.

A good, smart defensive rotation player for a year is worth a roster spot.

Cornell opens the season on the road, against Syracuse. Cornell is 0-22 vs. the Orange at the Carrier Dome. Men's Basketball To Open The 2017-18 Season At Syracuse (http://www.cornellbigred.com/news/2017/6/19/mens-basketball-to-open-the-2017-18-season-at-syracuse.aspx)

Men's Hoops get their first commitment of the new season:  6-9 PF/C Kobe Dickson from Holcomb, Kansas.  Kobe helped lead his team to a KS state title (mid-sized schools) last year, though it looks like he was the "defensive/rebounding forward" while a now-graduated teammate was the scoring forward.  I like recruits who come from winning programs, especially in states that care deeply about basketball.  On the other hand, it looks like Cornell was his only D1 offer, though he had interest from Air Force and D2 power Washburn.  He should help fill a need, but the recruiting arms race in the Ivies is getting tougher (Princeton has a commitment from ESPN's #99 overall recruit, for instance).

KenPom has published their initial set of ratings.  The model says 12-16, 6-8 which would be good for a tie with Columbia for 5th.  Of course, Cornell has only scheduled 27 games -- KenPom lists a game at Nebraska/Omaha that isn't on the Cornell schedule.

Things can change, but every out of conference game is winnable except for @Syracuse and @Auburn.  Okay, those are "winnable," but very unlikely.

Men's hoops beat SUNY-Cortland in a full exhibition game yesterday 96-70, which is encouraging considering two regulars (Stone Gettings, Troy Whitehead) didn't play.  No broadcast that I can find, so my thoughts are all from the box score.

Matt Morgan against a D3 defense isn't fair.  Matt had 25 points in 23 minutes (off the bench for some reason) on 75% shooting.  The last Cornellian to average 20 points a game was Ken Bantum in '84-'85.  Morgan could be the next.
Wil Bathurst looks to be the PG.  He played the most minutes and put up a very solid line of 14P-7A-6R, with just two turnovers (plus a steal and a block).  Assuming Stone and Troy aren't seriously hurt, Wil's play could decide if the Big Red gets to .500.
Josh Warren and Steven Julian both started the exhibition; Warren had 10P-5A, Julian 7P-7R.  Julian will likely be the newcomer who makes the biggest impact.
Boeheim and Gordon were the other two starters. Neither had a great game, but both look to start the season in the rotation.  
The remaining freshman all got double digit minutes.  Kuhn had 10 points and a pair of offensive rebounds.  Voss and Knapp hit all their shots.  McBride had a pair assists.  It will be interesting to see if any of the four can force his way into the rotation.

Overall, the Big Red shot well (62% and 50% from 3) and moved the ball well (21 assists on 37 FGs).  Only 4 offensive rebounds against a D3 school is a worry, as were the 12 turnovers compared to just 2 steals.  The season opens for real Friday at Syracuse.  The first home game is Monday night vs. Bingo.

Cornell had their customary annual blowout loss to Syracuse to start the D-I season over the weekend but evened their record with a 94-84 win over Binghamton.

The Big Red led by 18 with six minutes to go, but Bingo was stubborn.  To their credit, the Big Red hit their free throws down the stretch (12 of 14) so the result was never really in doubt.

If Morgan stays healthy, he's going to have an insane stat line.  He had 26 tonight with 8 rebounds.  Gettings came off the bench for 16 and Steve Julian had 10 points and 11 rebounds.

Cornell will be the underdog at Colgate on Thursday, then a trio of tossups:  @UMass-Lowell, home with Toledo and @Duquesne.  

In other league news, Dartmouth's best player decided to quit the team the day before the season started.  He'll graduate early and play two years somewhere else.

Quote from: mountainredIn other league news, Dartmouth's best player decided to quit the team the day before the season started.  He'll graduate early and play two years somewhere else.

Rather strange, especially considering that Boudreaux's father (and possible both parents) are Dartmouth alumns.

Quote from: scoop85

Quote from: mountainredIn other league news, Dartmouth's best player decided to quit the team the day before the season started.  He'll graduate early and play two years somewhere else.

Rather strange, especially considering that Boudreaux's father (and possible both parents) are Dartmouth alumns.

Kinda feel like "played for a few years and got a degree" is all the parents need and now maybe the kid can get a scholarship for grad school.

Quote from: scoop85

Quote from: mountainredIn other league news, Dartmouth's best player decided to quit the team the day before the season started.  He'll graduate early and play two years somewhere else.

Rather strange, especially considering that Boudreaux's father (and possible both parents) are Dartmouth alumns.

This can cut both ways if he was never really crazy about Dartmouth, but went out of a perceived obligation.

Quote from: semsox

Quote from: scoop85

Quote from: mountainredIn other league news, Dartmouth's best player decided to quit the team the day before the season started.  He'll graduate early and play two years somewhere else.

Rather strange, especially considering that Boudreaux's father (and possible both parents) are Dartmouth alumns.

This can cut both ways if he was never really crazy about Dartmouth, but went out of a perceived obligation.

Both parents are grads and Evan's mother is on the Board of Trustees there.  There had been rumblings he wasn't happy last season -- the coach who recruited Evan was fired before the season started -- but the timing is brutal.

'gate with a 72-61 win.  The Big Red just couldn't shoot, 5-27 from behind the arc.  Morgan gets 23 and is now in the all-time top 20 in scoring at Cornell.

Troubling loss at UMass-Lowell 98-78.  22 Cornell turnovers.  25 UML second chance points and 52 UML points in the paint.  Ugh.

Quote from: mountainredTroubling loss at UMass-Lowell 98-78.  22 Cornell turnovers.  25 UML second chance points and 52 UML points in the paint.  Ugh.

Yes, troubling is the right word. I would've thought we'd be improving, and I'm not sure we're seeing that.

Quote from: mountainredTroubling loss at UMass-Lowell 98-78.  22 Cornell turnovers.  25 UML second chance points and 52 UML points in the paint.  Ugh.

Earl needs to bring in a good sized center in his next recruiting class.

Quote from: scoop85

Quote from: mountainredTroubling loss at UMass-Lowell 98-78.  22 Cornell turnovers.  25 UML second chance points and 52 UML points in the paint.  Ugh.

Yes, troubling is the right word. I would've thought we'd be improving, and I'm not sure we're seeing that.

I'm not either.  Four games into year 2 is way too early to panic, but it is not too be early to be concerned.  And I'm that.

Much, MUCH better effort.  Cornell beats Toledo 80-77 at home.  Sure, the Rockets cut a 21 point Cornell lead to 1, but this was supposed to be a tight one.  The Big Red shot well (56%) and didn't turn the ball over too much (11).  Toledo did get a dozen offensive rebounds.

Gettings is finally healthy enough to start.  He finished with 21 points, 5 rebounds and 5 assists.  He is clearly Cornell's second best player and the offense clicks better when he is on the floor.  Warren was huge off the bench with 11 points (and at least 6 of the Big Red's points in the final 31-13 run by Toledo). Morgan led all scorers with 24.

Basically two good performances at home, three poor performances on the road.  Unfortunately, Monday night is at Duquesne.

Watched the last two minutes of foul-o-rama as Duquesne cut the lead from 13 to 7 but Cornell wins on the road 78-71.

Quote from: ugarteWatched the last two minutes of foul-o-rama as Duquesne cut the lead from 13 to 7 but Cornell wins on the road 78-71.

First road win of the year and frankly the first time they've looked good on the road.

It was a one point game midway through the second when Cornell went on an 11-0 run.  The Dukes hit a couple of late threes, but were never really a threat the rest of the way.  (Their announcer sorta gave up with more than 2 minutes left.)

Morgan with 24 points and 5 assists.  Gettings had 19.  Gordon and Warren had 10 each and Steve Julian had 8 points, 8 rebounds and 4 assists.  Julian has been huge.

Maybe the UML game was a "darkest before dawn" kind of thing?  The guys have looked vastly better in their last two games.

Quote from: CornellBigRed• The wins over Toledo (80-77) and at Duquesne (78-71) represent the first winning streak under head coach Brian Earl.

"Winning streak" as in first time this year or last that Cornell has won even 2 games in a row? We are starting over.

Quote from: billhoward

Quote from: CornellBigRed• The wins over Toledo (80-77) and at Duquesne (78-71) represent the first winning streak under head coach Brian Earl.

"Winning streak" as in first time this year or last that Cornell has won even 2 games in a row? We are starting over.

Dukes were picked to finish last in the A10. So don't buy your tickets to San Antonio just yet.

Quote from: Swampy

Quote from: billhoward

Quote from: CornellBigRed• The wins over Toledo (80-77) and at Duquesne (78-71) represent the first winning streak under head coach Brian Earl.

"Winning streak" as in first time this year or last that Cornell has won even 2 games in a row? We are starting over.

Dukes were picked to finish last in the A10. So don't buy your tickets to San Antonio just yet.

Man, tough crowd.  Winning two in a row isn't cause for a celebration -- though it is vastly better than losing -- and the Dukes aren't anything special (last place in the A10 wouldn't surprise me).  But road wins against an A10 team, even a bad one, aren't common events in basketball.  Outside of the 2010 squad, there just aren't many out-of-conference road wins except when Cornell plays a bottom 50 team.

And, seriously, the second half last night was a really good half of basketball.  After the UML debacle, I am thankful for it.

The Duquesne coach's post-game press conference (http://www.goduquesne.com/sports/m-baskbl/recaps/112717aab.html) is remarkable. He throws his players under the bus, consistently makes excuses about how short-handed his team is and then of course says "I'm not making excuses".  And in an almost 18 minute ramble he doesn't once give credit to his opponent.

Seems like a jackass.

Quote from: scoop85The Duquesne coach's post-game press conference (http://www.goduquesne.com/sports/m-baskbl/recaps/112717aab.html) is remarkable. He throws his players under the bus, consistently makes excuses about how short-handed his team is and then of course says "I'm not making excuses".  And in an almost 18 minute ramble he doesn't once give credit to his opponent.

Seems like a jackass.

Agree with you. Dambrot comes off like a douchebag. He was almost 5 minutes into the interview before he said the first good thing about anybody -- in this case one of his own players.

Around 13:00 he starts talking about playing zone and says he doesn't want to play zone when the team "gets better" (clearly he means when he has better recruits), so why do it now?  It isn't until around 15:00 of the interview that Dambrot even takes any responsibility for his team's performance. There's so much wrong with this!

First of all, being able to switch between zone & m2m is a strength. It not only adds a weapon to your arsenal, but also it gives you the possibility to surprise the other team, can force the other team to substitute at a disadvantage, and gives you a chance to see what works best.

But even more important is that really good coaches design their strategies around the players they have, not the players they wish they had. Take Bill Belichick. True, he cheats (http://southpark.cc.com/clips/165712/how-do-i-reach-these-kids). But he also finds way to win with the players he has. When Drew Bledsoe went down did Bill whine about his starting quarterback being knocked out? No! He went to his bench and put in a sixth-round draft pick. Even though the team lost that game, during the next week of practice Coach Belichick tweaked the offense around the backup quaterback's limited capabilities, and guess what! The next week they beat the Baltimore Colts 44-13, making the most out of a bad situation and making do the rest of the season with only the backup.

Another characteristic of a good coach is to emphasize process over W's & L's. A good coach helps even the worst player get better. (I know: I was that player under two very different coaches.) Especially at the college level, a good coach emphasizes improvement in both individual and team performance. In contrast, Dambrot seems to wish he could say out loud what he's really thinking: "These guys suck, and I can't wait until next year when I bring in some recruits to replace them."  

A good contrast to Dambrot is Dan Hurley, whose URI team is picked to finish first in the A10. Last Friday, playing without two injured starters, including the team's best player, URI lost to Virginia in a manner very similar to how the Dukes lost to Cornell. But in the postgame (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tssx3G3d_X8), Coach Hurley always refers to "we/us" for himself and his team, rather than "them" (for his players) and "me/I" for himself as Dambrot does. He says "we" missed opportunities, became demoralized, and gave in mentally and physically. But then he also praises Virginia, and he finishes by saying he hopes "we" learn from this.

Maybe there's a reason for the correlation between the preseason predictions and the coaches' respective styles.

Quote from: Swampy

Quote from: scoop85The Duquesne coach's post-game press conference (http://www.goduquesne.com/sports/m-baskbl/recaps/112717aab.html) is remarkable. He throws his players under the bus, consistently makes excuses about how short-handed his team is and then of course says "I'm not making excuses".  And in an almost 18 minute ramble he doesn't once give credit to his opponent.

Seems like a jackass.

Agree with you. Dambrot comes off like a douchebag. He was almost 5 minutes into the interview before he said the first good thing about anybody -- in this case one of his own players.

You made it through far more than I could.

Dambrot is an interesting guy.  He was LeBron's high school coach, is the winningest coach in Akron history, and was fired for telling his players at CMU to act like {word that gets you fired} on the court, but not the classroom (though he says he asked his team if he could use the word first and they said he could). http://www.cleveland.com/pluto/blog/index.ssf/2011/02/akrons_keith_dambrot_on_jason.html .  His record says he's a good coach.  My guess is that he's not dealing well with having a bad team for the first time in a long while.

Cornell basketball coach from an earlier era told me and WVBR's sports guy at a very liquid lunch, "You can't make chicken salad out of chickenshit." The team would go on to finish sub-.250.

Quote from: mountainred... was fired for telling his players at CMU to act like {word that gets you fired} on the court, but not the classroom (though he says he asked his team if he could use the word first and they said he could) ...

"Can I use the n-word?"
"Yeah coach, we trust you."
"OK, listen guys don't be a bunch of ..."
*stony silence* *someone texts the AD*

Pretty bleh way to go into the break, losing to Northeastern 84-66.  The first half was fine; lots of lead changes and the Big Red trailed by just 3.  The second half was brutal.  The turnover bug came back with 22.

Northeastern just beat Harvard by 16, so I guess this isn't the end of the world.  But the second half was tough to watch.

I think our team is either out of shape (in the sense of "the shape required to play Division I basketball," not compared to, say, me) or does not pace itself well. We typically have excellent (or at least competitive) first halves and then either hang on for dear life in the second or turn a close game into a blowout loss.

It may be a fitness issue (though the second half at Duquesne was their best half), but I think the biggest issue is that they play consistently poor defense.  That puts pressure on the offense to keep up for forty minutes and, all too often, they crack.  The Big Red isn't beating anyone with 20+ turnovers.

3-4 is about right for these guys.  They were never beating Syracuse and yesterday was a reach.  Bingo was supposed to be a win and it was.  The other four were toss-ups ('gate maybe a likely loss), and the guys went 2-2. The rest of the way, they should beat Longwood, Lafayette, and the D3 and should lose at Auburn and Delaware.  Niagara at home is a toss-up which could decide if they finish over or under .500 before league play.  

In the league, they should finish ahead of Dartmouth and Brown.  H,Y, P and Penn are all better.  Columbia may be 1-6, but they have yet to play at home and have been more competitive against better teams (i.e. losing to 'nova by just 15 and losing to UConn in OT).  The smart money is on 6th place.

2010 means never having to say you're sorry.

Steve Donahue set the atmosphere that made this possible, maybe.

Cornell travels to *Googles location* *double checks because come on* *confirms* Farmville and beats Longwood 79-72.

Quote from: ugarteCornell travels to *Googles location* *double checks because come on* *confirms* Farmville and beats Longwood 79-72.

Not a stellar performance, but good enough to beat Longwood (ranked 351st out of 351 D1 teams by Sagarin) on the road.  Bathurst was out with some type of injury apparently.

Quote from: scoop85

Quote from: ugarteCornell travels to *Googles location* *double checks because come on* *confirms* Farmville and beats Longwood 79-72.

Not a stellar performance, but good enough to beat Longwood (ranked 351st out of 351 D1 teams by Sagarin) on the road.  Bathurst was out with some type of injury apparently.

Kenpom is more bullish on the Lancers; he says they are 345 out of 351.  To date, they are Columbia's only win this year.  But, a road win is a road win.

In addition to Longwood, the fine community of Farmville is the location of Hampden-Sydney College -- one of the last three men's schools in the nation.  It's sort of the Cambridge of southern VA.

With an 80-71 win over Lafayette, the Big Red is over .500 after 9 games.

Meanwhile Princeton went to LA and beat USC.

Quote from: ugarteWith an 80-71 win over Lafayette, the Big Red is over .500 after 9 games.

Meanwhile Princeton went to LA and beat USC.

When you say it like that, beating the Leopards loses its appeal.

Entertaining, but disappointing, loss to Niagara 89-86.  Morgan and Gettings both had 30, but Matt's three ball at the end went in and out.

The Big Red were a bit under-manned.  Whiteside is still out.  Bathurst missed his third straight game.  McBride missed today with an injury.  And Davis left the game briefly when he rolled an ankle.  Cornell could have used the defense (McBride especially) and scoring (Wil).

Quote from: mountainredEntertaining, but disappointing, loss to Niagara 89-86.  Morgan and Gettings both had 30, but Matt's three ball at the end went in and out.

The Big Red were a bit under-manned.  Whiteside is still out.  Bathurst missed his third straight game.  McBride missed today with an injury.  And Davis left the game briefly when he rolled an ankle.  Cornell could have used the defense (McBride especially) and scoring (Wil).

Disappointing loss but I'll take the progress of this almost-comeback instead of the second half fade we saw in a lot of other games.

Quote from: ugarte

Quote from: mountainredEntertaining, but disappointing, loss to Niagara 89-86.  Morgan and Gettings both had 30, but Matt's three ball at the end went in and out.

The Big Red were a bit under-manned.  Whiteside is still out.  Bathurst missed his third straight game.  McBride missed today with an injury.  And Davis left the game briefly when he rolled an ankle.  Cornell could have used the defense (McBride especially) and scoring (Wil).

Disappointing loss but I'll take the progress of this almost-comeback instead of the second half fade we saw in a lot of other games.

Terrifically entertaining, frenetic game. Niagara plays about the softest defense I've ever seen a D1 school play, but they have a couple of terrific scorers, who were essentially matched by Morgan and Gettings. We had plenty of chances to tie or take the lead, but it wasn't to be.

It looks like we're heading in the right direction, and out Junior class is terrific. I'll be disappointed if we don't finish at least .500 in the league, and next year we should be able to contend.  Nice to see some of the freshmen contribute this year, but of course we'll need to see if Earl can bring in guys as good as Morgan and Gettings to replenish the roster.  I think Earl can coach, especially offensive basketball, which is encouraging.

Quote from: scoop85It looks like we're heading in the right direction, and out Junior class is terrific. I'll be disappointed if we don't finish at least .500 in the league, and next year we should be able to contend.  Nice to see some of the freshmen contribute this year, but of course we'll need to see if Earl can bring in guys as good as Morgan and Gettings to replenish the roster.  I think Earl can coach, especially offensive basketball, which is encouraging.

Earl can coach an offense, but our defense remains an issue.  Niagara is the real deal on offense, so give the guys a pass for yesterday; still, KenPom says the Big Red has the 2nd worst D in the league, just barely ahead of Dartmouth and way below the teams that will (likely) play in the ILT. One issue is that you have to play Gettings because of what he does on offense, but his defense remains a work in progress.

I'd love to see the guys contend for the Ivy title next year, but basically no one graduates across the entire league.  From a quick count, there are only 8 seniors getting much PT this season, and two of those guys start for Dartmouth.  Princeton loses their PG, but they have three freshmen in their rotation.  Harvard has no seniors and only one junior in their rotation.  Yale loses Mason, who is insanely good, but he hasn't played this year.  Right now they start one senior and two freshmen.  Penn, Columbia, and Brown have one senior starter apiece, and he's not the best player on any of those teams.  Seriously, every single team in the league may be as good as they are this year, if not better.

And I'm not ready to think about this team without the Junior class because they really are terrific.  Morgan may be the most effective scorer we've ever had at Cornell -- although Bajusz could have scored 25 a night under current conditions.

There is one encouraging sign on the team's D when you dig into the numbers a bit.  The guys are holding opponents to 47.6% shooting from 2 pt. range.  That's a really good number and the best in the league (Penn is next at 50%).  From outside the arc, they are the worst in the league with teams hitting 38.5% of their 3s.  What I've read on the subject indicates that two point defense is a repeatable defensive skill, while 3 point defense is largely statistical noise.  So, there is some reason to think that the guys will continue to hold teams to poor shooting from inside the arc while the three point shooting will regress to the mean.

Quote from: mountainredThere is one encouraging sign on the team's D when you dig into the numbers a bit.  The guys are holding opponents to 47.6% shooting from 2 pt. range.  That's a really good number and the best in the league (Penn is next at 50%).  From outside the arc, they are the worst in the league with teams hitting 38.5% of their 3s.  What I've read on the subject indicates that two point defense is a repeatable defensive skill, while 3 point defense is largely statistical noise.  So, there is some reason to think that the guys will continue to hold teams to poor shooting from inside the arc while the three point shooting will regress to the mean.

That is good news and a good observation.  Thanks.

I've read that three-point shooting has improved overall, so that stats-savvy teams work to increase their use of three-point attempts. Have we learned to refight the last war defensing twos?

Another entertaining, yet ultimately disappointing, loss.  In OT, Delaware wins 97-96.  Cornell had a 13 point lead with about 8 minutes to go, but struggled getting late stops. (EDIT:  UD scored on 10 of their last 11 possessions in regulation.  Ugh.)  One thing I didn't like, the last three possessions of regulation were Morgan by himself and they netted no points.  No one respects Morgan's ability more than I do, but the offense works better when everyone is involved.

Gettings with a career high 39.  Morgan had 34 points, 11 rebounds and 7 assists.

{annoyed grunting}

This is the Cornell basketball team I remember from the past few years!

Over the weekend, the guys dropped a 98-77 decision at Auburn that was never in doubt; the Tigers led by 39 at one point.  Freshman Jake Kuhn hit 4 three-pointers in garbage time.  Perhaps he sees an uptick in PT, perhaps not.  The effectively ends the out of league play for the season, though there is a glorified scrimmage against a non-NCAA, non-NAIA opponent.

I would be stunned if the ILT wasn't comprised of Harvard, Penn, Princeton and Yale (in some order).  Princeton is probably the best of the four, but not by a ton.  The Ivy regular season is basically little more than a way to determine who wears what uniform for the only three games that matter.  Yay progress!

Cornell, Columbia and Brown should fight for 5th.  Columbia has been disappointing (2-10) and Brown has been surprisingly feisty thanks to Freshman Desmond Cambridge (they took Providence to OT and played Northwestern even for 30 minutes).  Dartmouth looks like a good bet for the cellar.

You know it is little more than an exhibition when they don't pull out half the bleachers. Cornell beats Central Penn College (formerly Central Penn Business School) 93-69 in a game that closer for longer than it should have been.  16 turnovers; 16 offensive rebounds surrendered. At least some guys on the deep bench got to play.

Quote from: mountainredYou know it is little more than an exhibition when they don't pull out half the bleachers. Cornell beats Central Penn College (formerly Central Penn Business School) 93-69 in a game that closer for longer than it should have been.  16 turnovers; 16 offensive rebounds surrendered. At least some guys on the deep bench got to play.

Wharton undergrad b-school has a new name and its own teams? The old one had a lot of famous leaders.

Quote from: billhoward

Quote from: mountainredYou know it is little more than an exhibition when they don't pull out half the bleachers. Cornell beats Central Penn College (formerly Central Penn Business School) 93-69 in a game that closer for longer than it should have been.  16 turnovers; 16 offensive rebounds surrendered. At least some guys on the deep bench got to play.

Wharton undergrad b-school has a new name and its own teams? The old one had a lot of famous leaders.

Wouldn't Wharton be "Eastern Penn Business School?" I may start calling it that.

Barry kept calling the Knights D2, which is technically true but the implication is wrong.  Central Penn isn't NCAA D2, but a United States Collegiate Athletic Association Division 2 team.  To be fair, they are ranked 3rd in that division and actively schedule D1 games, as they have played 6 this season.  But the division is a collection of community colleges, small branch campuses of larger schools, tech and trade schools (including the Culinary Institute of America), and the like.  The Knights played hard throughout and I respect their coach for scheduling up; I just don't see the value in playing a team that many levels of competitiveness below D1.  Seriously, the guys looked awful and won by 24.

Quote from: mountainred

Quote from: billhoward

Quote from: mountainredYou know it is little more than an exhibition when they don't pull out half the bleachers. Cornell beats Central Penn College (formerly Central Penn Business School) 93-69 in a game that closer for longer than it should have been.  16 turnovers; 16 offensive rebounds surrendered. At least some guys on the deep bench got to play.

Wharton undergrad b-school has a new name and its own teams? The old one had a lot of famous leaders.

Wouldn't Wharton be "Eastern Penn Business School?" I may start calling it that.

Barry kept calling the Knights D2, which is technically true but the implication is wrong.  Central Penn isn't NCAA D2, but a United States Collegiate Athletic Association Division 2 team.  To be fair, they are ranked 3rd in that division and actively schedule D1 games, as they have played 6 this season.  But the division is a collection of community colleges, small branch campuses of larger schools, tech and trade schools (including the Culinary Institute of America), and the like.  The Knights played hard throughout and I respect their coach for scheduling up; I just don't see the value in playing a team that many levels of competitiveness below D1.  Seriously, the guys looked awful and won by 24.

i think it's a chance to work on stuff in a live game situation and give the end of the bench some run

Quote from: ugarte

Quote from: mountainred

Quote from: billhoward

Quote from: mountainredYou know it is little more than an exhibition when they don't pull out half the bleachers. Cornell beats Central Penn College (formerly Central Penn Business School) 93-69 in a game that closer for longer than it should have been.  16 turnovers; 16 offensive rebounds surrendered. At least some guys on the deep bench got to play.

Wharton undergrad b-school has a new name and its own teams? The old one had a lot of famous leaders.

Wouldn't Wharton be "Eastern Penn Business School?" I may start calling it that.

Barry kept calling the Knights D2, which is technically true but the implication is wrong.  Central Penn isn't NCAA D2, but a United States Collegiate Athletic Association Division 2 team.  To be fair, they are ranked 3rd in that division and actively schedule D1 games, as they have played 6 this season.  But the division is a collection of community colleges, small branch campuses of larger schools, tech and trade schools (including the Culinary Institute of America), and the like.  The Knights played hard throughout and I respect their coach for scheduling up; I just don't see the value in playing a team that many levels of competitiveness below D1.  Seriously, the guys looked awful and won by 24.

i think it's a chance to work on stuff in a live game situation and give the end of the bench some run

Sure, but there are 350+ D1 schools that will let you run live game situations.  And it's not like Kyle or Jordan got that much PT (6 mins) because the starters played 20+.

What really gets me is how this has gone from an annual game with Ithaca (fine), to a game with a local D3 (okay, I guess), to games with NAIA or USCAA teams in their second division.  It just feels bush league.

I've really wasted too much of my time (and the Board's) on this game.::demented::

One piece of news from the game, I think I heard Barry say Wil Bathurst is out for the season with a shoulder injury.  A tough break for a young man who plays hard.

Quote from: mountainred

Quote from: ugarte

Quote from: mountainred

Quote from: billhoward

Quote from: mountainredYou know it is little more than an exhibition when they don't pull out half the bleachers. Cornell beats Central Penn College (formerly Central Penn Business School) 93-69 in a game that closer for longer than it should have been.  16 turnovers; 16 offensive rebounds surrendered. At least some guys on the deep bench got to play.

Wharton undergrad b-school has a new name and its own teams? The old one had a lot of famous leaders.

Wouldn't Wharton be "Eastern Penn Business School?" I may start calling it that.

Barry kept calling the Knights D2, which is technically true but the implication is wrong.  Central Penn isn't NCAA D2, but a United States Collegiate Athletic Association Division 2 team.  To be fair, they are ranked 3rd in that division and actively schedule D1 games, as they have played 6 this season.  But the division is a collection of community colleges, small branch campuses of larger schools, tech and trade schools (including the Culinary Institute of America), and the like.  The Knights played hard throughout and I respect their coach for scheduling up; I just don't see the value in playing a team that many levels of competitiveness below D1.  Seriously, the guys looked awful and won by 24.

i think it's a chance to work on stuff in a live game situation and give the end of the bench some run

Sure, but there are 350+ D1 schools that will let you run live game situations.  And it's not like Kyle or Jordan got that much PT (6 mins) because the starters played 20+.

What really gets me is how this has gone from an annual game with Ithaca (fine), to a game with a local D3 (okay, I guess), to games with NAIA or USCAA teams in their second division.  It just feels bush league.

I've really wasted too much of my time (and the Board's) on this game.::demented::

One piece of news from the game, I think I heard Barry say Wil Bathurst is out for the season with a shoulder injury.  A tough break for a young man who plays hard.

Too bad about Bathurst. He was an important piece this year, and a tough way to end his college career.  Any idea if Whiteside will get on the court this year? As time goes by that seems less likely.

Starting off with the P&P trip is not ideal.  I think we're good enough to win one of those games if we bring our best effort, but an 0-2 league start is more likely than not

Quote from: scoop85Too bad about Bathurst. He was an important piece this year, and a tough way to end his college career.  Any idea if Whiteside will get on the court this year? As time goes by that seems less likely.

Starting off with the P&P trip is not ideal.  I think we're good enough to win one of those games if we bring our best effort, but an 0-2 league start is more likely than not

Scoop, I haven't heard a peep about Troy all season.  At this point, you have to guess that he is likely saving a season of eligibility in case he wants to have another school fund year one of his MBA.

I'm not optimistic about this weekend, but the Duquesne win tells me a win is possible.

Quote from: mountainred

Quote from: scoop85Too bad about Bathurst. He was an important piece this year, and a tough way to end his college career.  Any idea if Whiteside will get on the court this year? As time goes by that seems less likely.

Starting off with the P&P trip is not ideal.  I think we're good enough to win one of those games if we bring our best effort, but an 0-2 league start is more likely than not

Scoop, I haven't heard a peep about Troy all season.  At this point, you have to guess that he is likely saving a season of eligibility in case he wants to have another school fund year one of his MBA.

I'm not optimistic about this weekend, but the Duquesne win tells me a win is possible.

The Toledo win too shows that we are capable.

Quote from: scoop85

Quote from: mountainred

Quote from: scoop85Too bad about Bathurst. He was an important piece this year, and a tough way to end his college career.  Any idea if Whiteside will get on the court this year? As time goes by that seems less likely.

Starting off with the P&P trip is not ideal.  I think we're good enough to win one of those games if we bring our best effort, but an 0-2 league start is more likely than not

Scoop, I haven't heard a peep about Troy all season.  At this point, you have to guess that he is likely saving a season of eligibility in case he wants to have another school fund year one of his MBA.

I'm not optimistic about this weekend, but the Duquesne win tells me a win is possible.

The Toledo win too shows that we are capable.

I was thinking of road wins, but good point.  Toledo beat Penn at the Palestra this year 85-72.

Anybody know what section is the Cornell section at the Princeton gym this weekend?

Penn 69 Cornell 61.  At 13-13, the Quakers went on a 16-1 run and the Big Red never tied it back up.  Penn built a double digit lead late, but the guys fought back and kept it interesting.  I think they got it to 4 before Penn hit some free throws.

Basically, the guys couldn't shoot.  Other than Stone, the team shot 15 for 43.  Matt was off all night and was sitting on 5 points throughout most of the game.  Some of that was Penn, some was just that Matt's shots weren't falling.  Stone had 20 points and 17 rebounds (but a few later turnovers that won't sit well with him).

More disappointing than discouraging.  If Matt doesn't have a rare off game, Cornell might have won.  But I'm sure Coach Donahue is thinking his guys should have won more easily (they were a brutal 11-23 at the line).

Quote from: mountainredPenn 69 Cornell 61.  At 13-13, the Quakers went on a 16-1 run and the Big Red never tied it back up.  Penn built a double digit lead late, but the guys fought back and kept it interesting.  I think they got it to 4 before Penn hit some free throws.

Basically, the guys couldn't shoot.  Other than Stone, the team shot 15 for 43.  Matt was off all night and was sitting on 5 points throughout most of the game.  Some of that was Penn, some was just that Matt's shots weren't falling.  Stone had 20 points and 17 rebounds (but a few later turnovers that won't sit well with him).

More disappointing than discouraging.  If Matt doesn't have a rare off game, Cornell might have won.  But I'm sure Coach Donahue is thinking his guys should have won more easily (they were a brutal 11-23 at the line).

Penn also went like 6 for 20 from the line. It was kind of hard to watch both of these teams.

Quote from: ugarteIt was kind of hard to watch both of these teams.

Yeah, the tape of this game isn't going into a time capsule to show future generations what basketball was like.  It's now 10 losses in a row to Penn.

Tonight's game may be an even bigger challenge since you have two teams using basically the same scheme and one of them (not us) does it better.

Cornell trails Princeton 53-19 at the half.  The Tigers led 19-0 at one point.  Someone else can watch the second half, I don't have the stomach for it.

Quote from: mountainredCornell trails Princeton 53-19 at the half.  The Tigers led 19-0 at one point.  Someone else can watch the second half, I don't have the stomach for it.

lol jfc

Quote from: mountainredCornell trails Princeton 53-19 at the half.  The Tigers led 19-0 at one point.  Someone else can watch the second half, I don't have the stomach for it.

Let's just leave it at "Cornell finished the game with 54."

Quote from: Chris '03

Quote from: mountainredCornell trails Princeton 53-19 at the half.  The Tigers led 19-0 at one point.  Someone else can watch the second half, I don't have the stomach for it.

Let's just leave it at "Cornell finished the game with 54."

Princeton's decent, but no excuse for that type of shellacking.

Quote from: Chris '03

Quote from: mountainredCornell trails Princeton 53-19 at the half.  The Tigers led 19-0 at one point.  Someone else can watch the second half, I don't have the stomach for it.

Let's just leave it at "Cornell finished the game with 54."

We can take "pride" in the fact that we held them under 100.

Quote from: scoop85

Quote from: Chris '03

Quote from: mountainredCornell trails Princeton 53-19 at the half.  The Tigers led 19-0 at one point.  Someone else can watch the second half, I don't have the stomach for it.

Let's just leave it at "Cornell finished the game with 54."

Princeton's decent, but no excuse for that type of shellacking.

Agreed.  Cornell took a similar beating at Louisville a few years back.  But the Cards were #1 and Cornell went on to finish 2-26.

The next two weekends are the Columbia home and home, starting at their place.  The Lions are in full desperation mode as they are 3-12.  Expect a determined effort from Columbia as they try to keep their season from completely collapsing.  Any chance of staying alive for the Ivy Tournament -- a long shot, but they are just 0-2 after the Penn/Princeton road games -- will require a sweep.

Just reading the last few posts, it makes me so mad that this program squandered what it had built with the 2008-2010 run. Yes, Donahue left right after, but to see the momentum from that just turn to nothing in like two years is so, so frustrating.

Quote from: semsoxJust reading the last few posts, it makes me so mad that this program squandered what it had built with the 2008-2010 run. Yes, Donahue left right after, but to see the momentum from that just turn to nothing in like two years is so, so frustrating.

that recruiting class was lightning in a bottle. dale wasn't recruited at all; wittman got hurt his senior year, everyone backed off, his dad is rich so he didn't need a scholarship; foote ended up at cornell because our best player almost died.

Quote from: ugarte

Quote from: semsoxJust reading the last few posts, it makes me so mad that this program squandered what it had built with the 2008-2010 run. Yes, Donahue left right after, but to see the momentum from that just turn to nothing in like two years is so, so frustrating.

that recruiting class was lightning in a bottle. dale wasn't recruited at all; wittman got hurt his senior year, everyone backed off, his dad is rich so he didn't need a scholarship; foote ended up at cornell because our best player almost died.

True, but you don't get many better opportunities for a paradigm shift (do folks still say that) on Big Red hoops than 3 straight Ivy titles and a Sweet Sixteen run.  If anything, the nature of the Class of 2010 is why the chance was so precious and unlikely to come around again.

Quote from: semsoxJust reading the last few posts, it makes me so mad that this program squandered what it had built with the 2008-2010 run. Yes, Donahue left right after, but to see the momentum from that just turn to nothing in like two years is so, so frustrating.

Andy picking the wrong coach for the job in replacing Donahue sure didn't help.

Coaching selection hasn't been a strong point lately.  Besides hoops, lacrosse with Kerwick and football with Archer.  The men's soccer guy is pretty good though.

Ugh.  Columbia 88 Cornell 62.  20 turnovers for the Big Red, and the Lions hit 16 3's.  Columbia had won just 2 D1 games this year.

It was a tough night for McBride -- no points, no rebounds, 1 assist, 5 turnovers.  He'll have better days.  Boeheim had 6 points and 5 rebounds in one of his better games.

The guys haven't beaten a D1 school in a month.

Cornell blown out by Columbia losing L 88-62.

Quote from: mountainredUgh.  Columbia 88 Cornell 62.  20 turnovers for the Big Red, and the Lions hit 16 3's.  Columbia had won just 2 D1 games this year.

It was a tough night for McBride -- no points, no rebounds, 1 assist, 5 turnovers.  He'll have better days.  Boeheim had 6 points and 5 rebounds in one of his better games.

The guys haven't beaten a D1 school in a month.

This team is real bad. Clumsy ballhanding, spazzy dribbling, can't defend, can't shoot. Columbia didn't even look good.

No clue what to do in the halfcourt game.  No system, no movement.  Pick-up style basketball.

What is discouraging/frustrating to me is that the team is regressing. Before league play, the offense was moving the ball well especially when Stone controlled the play from the high post.  Two-thirds of the baskets were assisted and they were hitting well over 50% from inside the arc (because the ball and player movement were getting great looks).  When they were sloppy with the ball, they got killed (UML and Northeastern) but otherwise they were averaging 17 assists to just 12-13 turnovers and had one of the better offenses in the league based on the numbers.  

In league play, try 9 assists, 17 turnovers and 40% shooting.  That's dreadful.  And the turnovers aren't being forced, they are largely the result of sloppy play or being too cute with passes.  Throw in an already poor defense that is actually getting worse (Columbia's 57% 3 point shooting was just flukish, but they had way too many open looks), and Cornell is deservedly in the league basement.  The team's KenPom rating has dropped 42 places over the last two games.  That is really hard to do midway through the season.

I see where Al is coming from, but I don't agree that they are playing "pick-up" basketball.  There is an offense -- this isn't Courtney redux -- but Ivy League teams are well-versed in defending the Princeton attack.  So they anticipate the backdoor cuts better than ooc foes and Plan B is a combination of forcing a bad pass or "Matt, do something."

The last three games have been brutal and if that is new normal, Cornell will be hard-pressed to hold off Dartmouth for 7th place.  I think there is more talent than that, but am beginning to have serious doubts.

Quote from: mountainredWhat is discouraging/frustrating to me is that the team is regressing. Before league play, the offense was moving the ball well especially when Stone controlled the play from the high post.  Two-thirds of the baskets were assisted and they were hitting well over 50% from inside the arc (because the ball and player movement were getting great looks).  When they were sloppy with the ball, they got killed (UML and Northeastern) but otherwise they were averaging 17 assists to just 12-13 turnovers and had one of the better offenses in the league based on the numbers.  

In league play, try 9 assists, 17 turnovers and 40% shooting.  That's dreadful.  And the turnovers aren't being forced, they are largely the result of sloppy play or being too cute with passes.  Throw in an already poor defense that is actually getting worse (Columbia's 57% 3 point shooting was just flukish, but they had way too many open looks), and Cornell is deservedly in the league basement.  The team's KenPom rating has dropped 42 places over the last two games.  That is really hard to do midway through the season.

I see where Al is coming from, but I don't agree that they are playing "pick-up" basketball.  There is an offense -- this isn't Courtney redux -- but Ivy League teams are well-versed in defending the Princeton attack.  So they anticipate the backdoor cuts better than ooc foes and Plan B is a combination of forcing a bad pass or "Matt, do something."

The last three games have been brutal and if that is new normal, Cornell will be hard-pressed to hold off Dartmouth for 7th place.  I think there is more talent than that, but am beginning to have serious doubts.

Sorry, but I've seen no offensive system from Earl.  And, if Ivies are well-versed in defending the Princeton system, why is Princeton still succeeding?  And, if the Ivies are in fact so successful in defending it, why aren't we doing something else?  I'm not in the least impressed with what Earl is doing with the program so far.

Quote from: Al DeFlorio

Quote from: mountainredWhat is discouraging/frustrating to me is that the team is regressing. Before league play, the offense was moving the ball well especially when Stone controlled the play from the high post.  Two-thirds of the baskets were assisted and they were hitting well over 50% from inside the arc (because the ball and player movement were getting great looks).  When they were sloppy with the ball, they got killed (UML and Northeastern) but otherwise they were averaging 17 assists to just 12-13 turnovers and had one of the better offenses in the league based on the numbers.  

In league play, try 9 assists, 17 turnovers and 40% shooting.  That's dreadful.  And the turnovers aren't being forced, they are largely the result of sloppy play or being too cute with passes.  Throw in an already poor defense that is actually getting worse (Columbia's 57% 3 point shooting was just flukish, but they had way too many open looks), and Cornell is deservedly in the league basement.  The team's KenPom rating has dropped 42 places over the last two games.  That is really hard to do midway through the season.

I see where Al is coming from, but I don't agree that they are playing "pick-up" basketball.  There is an offense -- this isn't Courtney redux -- but Ivy League teams are well-versed in defending the Princeton attack.  So they anticipate the backdoor cuts better than ooc foes and Plan B is a combination of forcing a bad pass or "Matt, do something."

The last three games have been brutal and if that is new normal, Cornell will be hard-pressed to hold off Dartmouth for 7th place.  I think there is more talent than that, but am beginning to have serious doubts.

Sorry, but I've seen no offensive system from Earl.  And, if Ivies are well-versed in defending the Princeton system, why is Princeton still succeeding?  And, if the Ivies are in fact so successful in defending it, why aren't we doing something else?  I'm not in the least impressed with what Earl is doing with the program so far.

My best answers to your questions:
Why is Princeton still succeeding?  They are better at it, have more players who fit the system, and frankly have better players.  If the entire Cornell team transferred to Princeton, I'm not sure who would get much PT other than Matt and Stone.  And Matt isn't a great match for the system, but he's too talented to sit.
Why do we run it?  Fair question.  Probably because it is what Earl knows.  It's what every Princeton-trained coach knows.  

For six weeks I think the offense looked like a cohesive offensive system, especially compared to what we watched under Courtney.  Of course, that is faint praise and I won't try to sugarcoat the start of league play.  The internet thrives on hot takes, but "there is a system" and "that system is not good enough" can both be right.

Courtney couldn't recruit a decent center in 6 years!  Earl needs to concentrate on bringing in a center either as freshman recruit, or as a transfer.

The guys saved their season, sort of, with a 82-81 win over Columbia.  The biggest difference on defense is that the Lions shot 28% from 3, as opposed to 58%.  The Red had a bit more intensity on defense, but the quality of Columbia's looks was about the same.  It really was just bad luck last week and good luck this week for the guys.  Giving up 81 points on 73 possessions is nothing to write home about.

The offense was basically Matt (29 points) and Stone (25 points), though 19 assists on 26 made baskets was nice to see, as was going 22 for 25 at the line.  Warren had a solid game with 8 rebounds, including some huge ones late.

In short, they stopped the bleeding, and thankfully the bottom half of the league is pretty mediocre.  But my November optimism is pretty much gone.

Quote from: mountainredIn short, they stopped the bleeding, and thankfully the bottom half of the league is pretty mediocre.  But my November optimism is pretty much gone.

Unfortunately we're part of it.

Quote from: billhoward

Quote from: mountainredIn short, they stopped the bleeding, and thankfully the bottom half of the league is pretty mediocre.  But my November optimism is pretty much gone.

Unfortunately we're part of it.

I sure didn't mean to imply that we weren't.

As I look at the KenPom website this morning, it lists Cornell as #278 of 351 D1 teams (between North Florida and Eastern Kentucky).  The final rankings of Courtney's teams?  192, 207, 261, 340, 202, and 276.  This season isn't over and it is too early for me to give up on Brian Earl, but it is hard to call this progress.  (FYI, last year's final rating was 263).

clicked over to hoops after the final whistle at lynah but not in time to catch any action at bartels - but we beat Dartmouth by 1 for our second straight one-point home win.

Cornell jumps on Brown 13-0 and cruises to a 78-60 win.  Basically Cornell shot great (55%) and Brown shot terribly (31%).  Earl had the guys playing more fullcourt with Julian pressing the ball.  

Brown was coming off 102-100 overtime win at Princeton. They hadn't been held to 60 all season.  So, of course this happens in Providence.

With three wins in their last four games, the Big Red joins Princeton, Yale, Columbia and Brown in a five way tie for 3rd at 3-4.

Cornell picked up its 2nd public commitment from Pensacola FL point guard Matt Harshany.  He's averaging 29 ppg and recently scored 51 points in a game. He's about 6 feet tall and he can hit 3's from Matt Morgan range. Looks like a decent Ivy prospect.

Quote from: scoop85Cornell picked up its 2nd public commitment from Pensacola FL point guard Matt Harshany.  He's averaging 29 ppg and recently scored 51 points in a game. He's about 6 feet tall and he can hit 3's from Matt Morgan range. Looks like a decent Ivy prospect.

Thanks Scoop.  That's not yet on the Verbal Commits website.  According to the local news, Harshany has a 4.9 GPA (!?) and "recruiting interest from Stanford, Georgia Tech and Massachusetts Institute of Technology" (whatever that means).  http://www.pnj.com/story/sports/high-school/basketball/2018/02/09/navarre-point-guard-matt-harshany-commits-cornell/325390002/.  If his three-point skills translate to D1, he should be able play immediately as the team could really use a sniper.

On the floor, the guys lost to Yale 74-65 in large part due to poor shooting:  4 of 16 from behind the arc and 11 of 20 at the line.  Matt had maybe his worst game of the season and this team doesn't have the depth to win road games when he is off.

On the bright side, Princeton is in complete free fall so there may be two spots in the ILT that are within reach.  Cornell sits in a three way tie for 5th with the Tigers and Columbia and a game back of Brown and Yale.  In full candor, Cornell is probably the fifth best of the five teams vying for those last two spots, but the Big Red do have four home games and none of the five teams are particularly impressive now that Princeton has lost four in a row (the last three by an average of sixteen points).

So we go to the tournament, get our butts kicked by the 1-seed, but we can say we made the tournament and point to that as an upward sign.

Quote from: billhowardSo we go to the tournament, get our butts kicked by the 1-seed, but we can say we made the tournament and point to that as an upward sign.

it would BE an upward sign

Quote from: ugarte

Quote from: billhowardSo we go to the tournament, get our butts kicked by the 1-seed, but we can say we made the tournament and point to that as an upward sign.

it would BE an upward sign

4th would be the best finish since 2010.  That looks like up to me.

Quote from: mountainred

Quote from: ugarte

Quote from: billhowardSo we go to the tournament, get our butts kicked by the 1-seed, but we can say we made the tournament and point to that as an upward sign.

it would BE an upward sign

4th would be the best finish since 2010.  That looks like up to me.

If you haven't read it yet, y'all should. (https://books.google.com/books?id=eQR81OfUJdEC&lpg=PP1&pg=PP1#v=onepage&q&f=false)

Wow.  Cornell trails by 22 mid-way through the second half.  They win in 3OTs 107-101.  This game was over and then it wasn't.  Hats off to the guys.

On the stats, Morgan was 3 assists away from a triple double (31 points, 10 rebounds, 7 assists).  Gettings had 26 points, 8 rebounds and 5 assists.  Cornell is now tied with Brown for 4th.

I don't know how much these guys will have in tank for Penn, as Morgan, Gettings, Julian, and McBride all played over 40 minutes.  But they earned a good night's sleep tonight.

and now cornell is tied for 4th in the IVY. yale/brown weekend at home becomes a huge.

With the score tied and less than half a second left in the game Princeton air-balled a free throw to send the game to OT. lol

Missed tonight's game, the 11th straight loss to Penn.  But Dartmouth beat Brown and Columbia blew out Princeton, so the Big Red remain in fourth (now tied with Brown and Columbia).

By rule there must be four teams in the Ivy Tourney, though only Penn and Harvard deserve it.  If the Big Red can beat Brown at home and Dartmouth on the road, it just might be them.  Pretty remarkable considering the defense remains awful.

So coming down the stretch, my take, slight chance of being correct

scenario 1
Cornell has Yale/Brown Harvard/Dart  Lose to harv/yale  Beat brown/Dart  Ends 6-8
Brown has  Cornell/Columbia   Penn/Prin  Lose to Cornell/Columbia/Penn beat princeton ends 5-9
Columbia has Yale/Brown Harvard/Dart  Lose to Harv/Yale Beat Brown/Dart ends 6-8

tie breaker 1 is h2h cornell/columbia split
tie breaker 2 is h2h cornell/columbia both 0-2 vs penn
tie breaker 3 is h2h cornell/columbia columbia beat Harvard so it wins

Scenario 2
Cornell has Yale/Brown Harvard/Dart  Lose to harv/yale  Beat brown/Dart  Ends us 6-8
Brown has  Cornell/Columbia   Penn/Prin  Lose to Cornell/Penn beat princeton/columbia ends 6-8
Columbia has Yale/Brown Harvard/Dart  Lose to Harv/Yale/browb Beat Dart ends 5-9

tie breaker is h2h cornell wins 2-0 over brown

That looks right to me.  

Recruit update:  Kobe Dickson is averaging 15 points, 11 rebounds and 3 blocks a night so far this season.  His team is 18-1, so he's not piling up stats in losing efforts.  He might be a really solid under the radar find.

Entertaining, but ultimately disappointing, loss to Yale 82-80.  The Bulldogs scored 52 in the second half as the Big Red's defense struggled again.

Cornell and Brown are now tied for 5th and Saturday's game is one of survival for both teams.  Win and the ILT is still reachable.  Lose and you are basically done.

really just a couple poor defensive decision late.  up 2 you cant allow a 3 and tied they did it again..  at worst its OT if you just make then shoot 2s

Quote from: upprdeckreally just a couple poor defensive decision late.  up 2 you cant allow a 3 and tied they did it again..  at worst its OT if you just make then shoot 2s

In fairness, they've been pretty lousy at allowing 3s all season, it wasn't just a late game breakdown.
EDIT:  wait, are you thinking about Yates's shot to give Yale the lead for good?  Cornell only led by 1 before that shot.  Yates shouldn't have been that open either way.

Cornell beats Brown 73-68.

Quote from: Ken711Cornell beats Brown 73-68.

The defense has struggled this year, but that's twice they solved Brown.  Their PG averages 17.5 ppg, he scored 14 total in the two games v. Cornell.

The Big Red is now tied with Columbia for 4th, one game ahead of Brown and Princeton.  The Lions hold the tiebreaker for the last spot in the ILT, so Cornell needs to sweep next weekend or hope Columbia loses at last place Dartmouth.

too bad tey let that Yale game get away.

Quote from: upprdecktoo bad tey let that Yale game get away.

Both that and the Harvard game.  On the other hand, we probably had no business pulling out the Dartmouth or Princeton games, so it's probably evened-out.

I'd love to see us sneak in, but hard to see winning 2 on the road.

Quote from: scoop85

Quote from: upprdecktoo bad tey let that Yale game get away.

Both that and the Harvard game.  On the other hand, we probably had no business pulling out the Dartmouth or Princeton games, so it's probably evened-out.

I'd love to see us sneak in, but hard to see winning 2 on the road.

Yeah not likely they sweep.  Given their road record (3-10), it's much more likely they get swept and lose both.

I think Cornell gets in if they win at Harvard and lose at Dartmouth and Columbia does the opposite; that would make Cornell's sweep of Brown the tie-breaker.  Unless Princeton sweeps Brown and Yale at home, in which case the Tigers have the advantage because they would be the only team to have beaten 3rd place Yale.  EDIT:  except in my scenario I assumed a Cornell win over 2nd place Harvard.  Sorry about that.

The Yale loss hurts because it was there for the taking, but that was likely Karma payback for stealing one versus Princeton.

Great job to come back and send this game to OT and then couldn't hold an OT lead and then Harvard ran away in 2OT. Surprisingly close given that I only saw Cornell hit a single shot beyond 10 feet. The boxscore says we hit 9 threes but I didn't see any of them; just one bad miss after another. *sigh* Insanely frustrating because Columbia lost and we could have controlled our own destiny tomorrow.

Another entertaining, but ultimately disappointing loss.  96-88 at Harvard in double overtime.  Cornell had the ball with a chance to take the lead with about 1:20 in the second OT but Gordon missed the shot and the wheels came off.  Matt missed a shot at the end of the first OT that would have won it, but he was too deep. Morgan had 34, Gettings 23 before fouling out.

Two defensive stats:  Harvard shot 48% from behind the arc (lots of wide open looks) but turned it over 19 times to give the Red a chance.  They also hit 24 of 27 from the line, so credit them there.

BUT, Columbia spit the bit at Dartmouth (they trailed by 19 late, closed to within 2 but the gap was too much).  So, Cornell can take the last ILT spot with: 1) a win at Dartmouth; 2) a Columbia loss at Harvard; and 3) a Princeton loss at Yale.  It's a lot of help, but none of those outcomes are crazy.

Quote from: ugarteSurprisingly close given that I only saw Cornell hit a single shot beyond 10 feet. The boxscore says we hit 9 threes but I didn't see any of them; just one bad miss after another.

Morgan hit some serious bombs, but he was the only one.

harvard playing for the ivy tomorrow so that will help them vs Columbia, as will yale SR night vs Princeton.

it wont be an easy game as dartmouth has played pretty very game close.

had plenty of chances tonight . too bad we couldnt hit 3s for most of the game.

KenPom predictions for tonight:  Dartmouth over Cornell 75-73, Yale over Princeton 71-68, Harvard over Columbia 75-67.

Harvard won't want to lose the #1 seed so soon after taking it back from Penn and they will want revenge for their loss in NYC.  I'm not too worried about that domino falling into place.

I'm not as sold on Yale/Princeton going our way.  That game means a lot more for Princeton than it does for Yale.

Dartmouth has played everyone tough (except the trip to the P's, but every league team knows that experience).  And the Green really should have won in Ithaca (93 % win percentage with a minute left).  

I know the ILT isn't going away, but a 6-8 team making it for the second straight year is not a good look.

There is actually one more lifeline for the Big Red:  Cornell, Princeton and Columbia all lose and Brown beats Penn (i.e. a home sweep on the night).  That creates a four way log jam at 5-9 for 4th place and Cornell advances due to their sweep of Brown.  I have no faith in Brown beating Penn though.

well first half went our way, can we get 2?

harvard playing well.. Hope Yale can find a way to finish the game

Looks very promising.  I've switched over to watch Princeton/Yale.  Go Bulldogs.

*sigh*

Harvard rolled Columbia as hoped.

Cornell up 12 with .40 to go

yale at 4 with 1:30 to go

Yale with back to back turnovers.

OT in New Haven.

Yale melts down, up 8 . three TOs in a row and gets one shot off down the stretch..

OT

really had it won,, up 8 with the ball and then shut down the offense to milk clock and blew it.

Quote from: upprdeckYale melts down, up 8 . three TOs in a row and gets one shot off down the stretch..

OT

really had it won,, up 8 with the ball and then shut down the offense to milk clock and blew it.

Penn fans wondering where that Yale team was last night.  Princeton ratcheting things up.

Yale by 2 and with the ball.  Time out with 2 min. left.

Yale at the line, up 3.  :21 left.

Yale wins 94-90.

We're Number 4.  We're Number 4.  ::cheer::

Credit the guys for taking care of business while Princeton and Columbia could not.  Next weekend is a third crack at Harvard.

we can beat Harvard, you never know

Quote from: upprdeckwe can beat Harvard, you never know

Agreed.  3 point loss at home; 2OT loss on the road.  Those were competitive games.

A shout out to Jack Gordon (16 points, 4 of 5 from 3 pt distance), Freshman Jake Kuhn (8 points and 2 of 3) and Josh Warren (11p, 4a) for stepping up tonight.

Are the tourney games at neutral site or the #1?

Quote from: TrotskyAre the tourney games at neutral site or the #1?

At the Palestra, so big advantage for Penn, even though the #2 seed.

The Earl era is moving in the right direction.

I kinda lost track but what happened to boeheim? did he get injured?

Quote from: scoop85

Quote from: TrotskyAre the tourney games at neutral site or the #1?

At the Palestra, so big advantage for Penn, even though the #2 seed.

I believe the Palestra is the permanent location for the Ivy playoff, not just the place that it was scheduled this year.

How we did against the rest of the league:

1. Harvard (3 pt loss @ home; 2OT loss @ Harvard)
2. Penn (8 pt loss @ Penn; 8 pt loss @ home)
3. Yale (9 pt loss @ Yale; 2 pt loss @ home)
4. Cornell
5. Princeton (37 pt loss @ home; 3OT win @ Princeton)
6. Columbia (26 pt loss @ Columbia; 1 pt win @ home)
7. Brown (18 pt win @ Brown; 15 pt win @ home)
8. Dartmouth (1 pt win @ home; 11 pt win @ Dartmouth)

In general we showed a lot of improvement in the rematches. Nobody in the playoffs embarrassed us this year. This isn't over. We may lose by 40 to North Carolina yet.

Quote from: ugarte

Quote from: scoop85

Quote from: TrotskyAre the tourney games at neutral site or the #1?

At the Palestra, so big advantage for Penn, even though the #2 seed.

I believe the Palestra is the permanent location for the Ivy playoff, not just the place that it was scheduled this year.

Not sure if it's permanent or if they just selected the Palestra for just the first few years.

Quote from: ugarteHow we did against the rest of the league:
1. Harvard (3 pt loss @ home; 2OT loss @ Harvard)
2. Penn (8 pt loss @ Penn; 8 pt loss @ home)
3. Yale (9 pt loss @ Yale; 2 pt loss @ home)
4. Cornell
5. Princeton (37 pt loss @ home; 3OT win @ Princeton)
6. Columbia (26 pt loss @ Columbia; 1 pt win @ home)
7. Brown (18 pt win @ Brown; 15 pt win @ home)
8. Dartmouth (1 pt win @ home; 11 pt win @ Dartmouth)
In general we showed a lot of improvement in the rematches. Nobody in the playoffs embarrassed us this year. This isn't over. We may lose by 40 to North Carolina yet.

This could end the way Butch Cassidy did. Steve McQueen: "Good. For a moment there I thought we were in trouble."

Quote from: scoop85

Quote from: ugarte

Quote from: scoop85

Quote from: TrotskyAre the tourney games at neutral site or the #1?

At the Palestra, so big advantage for Penn, even though the #2 seed.

I believe the Palestra is the permanent location for the Ivy playoff, not just the place that it was scheduled this year.

Not sure if it's permanent or if they just selected the Palestra for just the first few years.

The Palestra was a good cheap place to hold this event to start and the league needs a pre-determined place as long as the league wants to hold the men's play-off and the women's at the same location.  Playing games in a 3/4 empty arena in Bridgeport is not a good look.

Quote from: mountainred

Quote from: scoop85

Quote from: ugarte

Quote from: scoop85

Quote from: TrotskyAre the tourney games at neutral site or the #1?

At the Palestra, so big advantage for Penn, even though the #2 seed.

I believe the Palestra is the permanent location for the Ivy playoff, not just the place that it was scheduled this year.

Not sure if it's permanent or if they just selected the Palestra for just the first few years.

The Palestra was a good cheap place to hold this event to start and the league needs a pre-determined place as long as the league wants to hold the men's play-off and the women's at the same location.  Playing games in a 3/4 empty arena in Bridgeport is not a good look.

Certainly if they have to hold the tournament at a pre-determined site, the Palestra is the best choice.

Quote from: billhoward

Quote from: ugarteHow we did against the rest of the league:
1. Harvard (3 pt loss @ home; 2OT loss @ Harvard)
2. Penn (8 pt loss @ Penn; 8 pt loss @ home)
3. Yale (9 pt loss @ Yale; 2 pt loss @ home)
4. Cornell
5. Princeton (37 pt loss @ home; 3OT win @ Princeton)
6. Columbia (26 pt loss @ Columbia; 1 pt win @ home)
7. Brown (18 pt win @ Brown; 15 pt win @ home)
8. Dartmouth (1 pt win @ home; 11 pt win @ Dartmouth)
In general we showed a lot of improvement in the rematches. Nobody in the playoffs embarrassed us this year. This isn't over. We may lose by 40 to North Carolina yet.

This could end the way Butch Cassidy did. Steve McQueen: "Good. For a moment there I thought we were in trouble."

billhoward's memory *is* in trouble.  Steve McQueen wasn't even in the movie.  Paul Newman said that.

I think he was talking about the audition mix tape.

Previous years I thought the playoff was a dumb idea.  Now for some reason I like it.  Funny thing, that.

Quote from: French RagePrevious years I thought the playoff was a dumb idea.  Now for some reason I like it.  Funny thing, that.

Having a team that is 6-8 in Ivy play make the playoff is an excellent argument for why it's a dumb idea. However, if a 6-8 Ivy team is going to have a chance to steal two games and get into the NCAA tournament, it might as well be us.

other leagues have teams go 4-12 and make the NCAA why should the ivy be different.  It makes up for punishing the fball teams by not letting them play in that tourney

It's perfectly ok to be excited for a team to win in a dumb system. See: Olympic hockey shootouts. Literally everyone complained about them, but there were the replays playing on repeat for a week.

There is a time and a place to complain about an Ivy basketball playoff but that time is not "the week that Cornell will be playing in the Ivy basketball playoff" and the place is not "a Cornell sports forum the week that Cornell will be playing in the Ivy basketball playoff".

Matt Morgan named unanimous first team all-ivy.  Stone was second team.

Syracuse would kill to have Stone at the other forward position, they would be easily 4-5 games better with him at the 4.

Quote from: ugarteThere is a time and a place to complain about an Ivy basketball playoff but that time is not "the week that Cornell will be playing in the Ivy basketball playoff" and the place is not "a Cornell sports forum the week that Cornell will be playing in the Ivy basketball playoff".

I thought that the time to complain in "a Cornell sports forum" was always. My bad. ::bang::

What time is the playoff game at the Palestra?

Quote from: TrotskyWhat time is the playoff game at the Palestra?

Saturday at 12:30 on ESPNU

Quote from: scoop85

Quote from: TrotskyWhat time is the playoff game at the Palestra?

Saturday at 12:30 on ESPNU

Thank you very much.

Do we have a snowball's chance in hell?

Quote from: Trotsky

Quote from: scoop85

Quote from: TrotskyWhat time is the playoff game at the Palestra?

Saturday at 12:30 on ESPNU

Thank you very much.

Do we have a snowball's chance in hell?

Sure. We lost at home to H in the final moments after leading most of the game, and we took them to double OT in Cambridge last week. If Morgan is on his game, we'll be in it. If he's off, we probably lose by 10-15.

Quote from: scoop85

Quote from: Trotsky

Quote from: scoop85

Quote from: TrotskyWhat time is the playoff game at the Palestra?

Saturday at 12:30 on ESPNU

Thank you very much.

Do we have a snowball's chance in hell?

Sure. We lost at home to H in the final moments after leading most of the game, and we took them to double OT in Cambridge last week. If Morgan is on his game, we'll be in it. If he's off, we probably lose by 10-15.

KenPom predicts Harvard 73-67, Cornell with a 28% chance to win.  So, we're clearly the underdog, but upsets of that magnitude happen every night.

best thing about the game is its at noon.. the penn crowd will be rooting for us, those that show up early.

Quote from: mountainred

Quote from: scoop85

Quote from: Trotsky

Quote from: scoop85

Quote from: TrotskyWhat time is the playoff game at the Palestra?

Saturday at 12:30 on ESPNU

Thank you very much.

Do we have a snowball's chance in hell?

Sure. We lost at home to H in the final moments after leading most of the game, and we took them to double OT in Cambridge last week. If Morgan is on his game, we'll be in it. If he's off, we probably lose by 10-15.

KenPom predicts Harvard 73-67, Cornell with a 28% chance to win.  So, we're clearly the underdog, but upsets of that magnitude happen every night.

What do the KENPOM  metric letters stand for and when do we start arguing that it must be wrong?**]

cornell- harvard didnt even get a story on their own web site today

Quote from: upprdeckcornell- harvard didnt even get a story on their own web site today

isn't the game tomorrow?

Quote from: ugarte

Quote from: upprdeckcornell- harvard didnt even get a story on their own web site today

isn't the game tomorrow?

Correct:

03.10.18 12:30 P.M.

CORNELL VS HARVARD UNIVERSITY

lax is tomorrow too and it had a lead story..

Cornell up by as much as 7 in the first half of Ivy basketball tournament semifinal vs. Harvard.

Harvard catches up, goes up 31-30 with a minute to play. Boeheim misses a three, Harvard hits on its own, Boeheim hits a pair of free throws, Harvard hits a looong three from the edge of tipoff circle at the buzzer, half ends Harvard up 37-32. So we won about 19 of the 20 minutes.

Second half: Now it's Harvard up by 7, with 13-1/2 to play. The roof falls in and Cornell is working to keep the MOV below 20. 74-54 with 2 minutes to play.

Final, Harvard 74-55. Meet Yale or Penn Sunday.

Quote from: billhowardCornell up by as much as 7 in the first half of Ivy basketball tournament semifinal vs. Harvard.

16-4 Harvard run to close the half takes them from 7 down to 5 up.

I tuned in on a questionable stream when we were up 7 and we end the half down 5.  So I'm going to stop watching.

Quote from: French RageI tuned in on a questionable stream when we were up 7 and we end the half down 5.  So I'm going to stop watching.

We know where you live.

Quote from: French RageI tuned in on a questionable stream when we were up 7 and we end the half down 5.  So I'm going to stop watching.

sadly you broke the game permanently

Quote from: ugarte

Quote from: French RageI tuned in on a questionable stream when we were up 7 and we end the half down 5.  So I'm going to stop watching.

sadly you broke the game permanently

That was when the bottom was cut out of the peach baskets.

having seen admittedly next to nothing of the team this year, is it clear that the program is on an upswing under Earl, or this just the case of one great Ivy player (Morgan) dragging the team up to 6 wins, and then the program can expect to decline once he leaves (like Columbia, Brown etc. the past few years)

Quote from: underskillhaving seen admittedly next to nothing of the team this year, is it clear that the program is on an upswing under Earl, or this just the case of one great Ivy player (Morgan) dragging the team up to 6 wins, and then the program can expect to decline once he leaves (like Columbia, Brown etc. the past few years)

probably a little bit of Earl, a little bit of Morgan, a little bit of the conference having a down year - Penn is a 16 seed.

Quote from: ugarte

Quote from: underskillhaving seen admittedly next to nothing of the team this year, is it clear that the program is on an upswing under Earl, or this just the case of one great Ivy player (Morgan) dragging the team up to 6 wins, and then the program can expect to decline once he leaves (like Columbia, Brown etc. the past few years)

probably a little bit of Earl, a little bit of Morgan, a little bit of the conference having a down year - Penn is a 16 seed.

Penn deserved better than a 16-seed according to most of the "experts" -- probably should've been a 14.

In any event, while we have everyone back, so do most of the Ivies.  In fact, every player on the 1st and 2nd All-League teams returns next year, including Morgan and Gettings. So, while we should be in the mix, we could just as easily miss the top-4 altogether.

As far as recruiting goes, right now we have 3 public commitments after we picked up yesterday a JUCO transfer from Arizona, power forward Chaz Mack.  He'll be joined by freshman Matt Harshany, a 6 foot point guard from Florida, and power forward Kobe Dickson from Kansas.  

Mack scored 43 points in a game this year in a strong JUCO league, and averaged 19.9 ppg, 10.1 rpg. He hit 89.4% of his FTs too.  Mack is only 6'6", so he's pretty small for a power forward at the D1 level (Charles Barkley notwithstanding), but may be effective in the Ivies. Looking at some video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oGTmqOcBxfo) he looks like he has a well-rounded game and has a decent stroke on the 3.

Harshany averaged 25.2 ppg this year playing in northern Florida.

Dickson is a 6'9" power forward who scored 13 points and had 10 rebounds in his team's loss this past weekend in the Kansas class 4A-II final. Dickson had 19 points, 18 rebounds and seven blocks in the semifinal.  He should add a nice inside power game that we've been thin on the past few years. Right now it seems Dickson might be the top recruit coming in.

Quote from: ugarte

Quote from: underskillhaving seen admittedly next to nothing of the team this year, is it clear that the program is on an upswing under Earl, or this just the case of one great Ivy player (Morgan) dragging the team up to 6 wins, and then the program can expect to decline once he leaves (like Columbia, Brown etc. the past few years)

probably a little bit of Earl, a little bit of Morgan, a little bit of the conference having a down year - Penn is a 16 seed.

While making the ILT was great, there was a bit of luck to it.  Cornell's final KenPom rating is still mired in the bottom 100 and not much better than Courtney's last team.  In baseball, it would be like winning the second wild-card but with a negative run differential.  The play-off game is great, but there is a nagging sense that it took a lot to go right that is not likely to be repeated.

Quote from: ugarte

Quote from: underskillhaving seen admittedly next to nothing of the team this year, is it clear that the program is on an upswing under Earl, or this just the case of one great Ivy player (Morgan) dragging the team up to 6 wins, and then the program can expect to decline once he leaves (like Columbia, Brown etc. the past few years)

probably a little bit of Earl, a little bit of Morgan, a little bit of the conference having a down year - Penn is a 16 seed.

Imagine if we squeaked in. We couldn't be seeded any lower than Penn is now. We could have gotten the overall #1 seed, Virginia. Which gets UMBC, ranked 186 of 351 teams by ESPN. Penn is 59.

Quote from: mountainred

Quote from: ugarte

Quote from: underskillhaving seen admittedly next to nothing of the team this year, is it clear that the program is on an upswing under Earl, or this just the case of one great Ivy player (Morgan) dragging the team up to 6 wins, and then the program can expect to decline once he leaves (like Columbia, Brown etc. the past few years)

probably a little bit of Earl, a little bit of Morgan, a little bit of the conference having a down year - Penn is a 16 seed.

While making the ILT was great, there was a bit of luck to it.  Cornell's final KenPom rating is still mired in the bottom 100 and not much better than Courtney's last team.  In baseball, it would be like winning the second wild-card but with a negative run differential.  The play-off game is great, but there is a nagging sense that it took a lot to go right that is not likely to be repeated.

I won't argue with the analytics, but after a rough early start in league play, the eye test tells me that the team improved in most facets, and it was a heck of a lot more enjoyable to watch a team that actually ran a structured offense, often beautifully.

Quote from: scoop85

Quote from: mountainred

Quote from: ugarte

Quote from: underskillhaving seen admittedly next to nothing of the team this year, is it clear that the program is on an upswing under Earl, or this just the case of one great Ivy player (Morgan) dragging the team up to 6 wins, and then the program can expect to decline once he leaves (like Columbia, Brown etc. the past few years)

probably a little bit of Earl, a little bit of Morgan, a little bit of the conference having a down year - Penn is a 16 seed.

While making the ILT was great, there was a bit of luck to it.  Cornell's final KenPom rating is still mired in the bottom 100 and not much better than Courtney's last team.  In baseball, it would be like winning the second wild-card but with a negative run differential.  The play-off game is great, but there is a nagging sense that it took a lot to go right that is not likely to be repeated.

I won't argue with the analytics, but after a rough early start in league play, the eye test tells me that the team improved in most facets, and it was a heck of a lot more enjoyable to watch a team that actually ran a structured offense, often beautifully.

Agree 100% on the offense. The ball movement was great and the guys generated tons of good looks. Assists on 60% of the made baskets (24th best in the nation).  It was fun to watch and so much better than the hero ball of the Courtney years.

But I gotta disagree on the defense.  Other than having Brown's number, it was bad all season.  Maybe adding Dickson and getting Troy Whiteside back helps the D.  And opponents can't all shoot from behind the arc like they are Drew Ferry again next year, can they?  Still, when you finish ranked 323 in defensive efficiency (one spot over a Niagara squad that seemed allergic to playing D), there's a problem.

Quote from: mountainred

Quote from: scoop85

Quote from: mountainred

Quote from: ugarte

Quote from: underskillhaving seen admittedly next to nothing of the team this year, is it clear that the program is on an upswing under Earl, or this just the case of one great Ivy player (Morgan) dragging the team up to 6 wins, and then the program can expect to decline once he leaves (like Columbia, Brown etc. the past few years)

probably a little bit of Earl, a little bit of Morgan, a little bit of the conference having a down year - Penn is a 16 seed.

While making the ILT was great, there was a bit of luck to it.  Cornell's final KenPom rating is still mired in the bottom 100 and not much better than Courtney's last team.  In baseball, it would be like winning the second wild-card but with a negative run differential.  The play-off game is great, but there is a nagging sense that it took a lot to go right that is not likely to be repeated.

I won't argue with the analytics, but after a rough early start in league play, the eye test tells me that the team improved in most facets, and it was a heck of a lot more enjoyable to watch a team that actually ran a structured offense, often beautifully.

Agree 100% on the offense. The ball movement was great and the guys generated tons of good looks. Assists on 60% of the made baskets (24th best in the nation).  It was fun to watch and so much better than the hero ball of the Courtney years.

But I gotta disagree on the defense.  Other than having Brown's number, it was bad all season.  Maybe adding Dickson and getting Troy Whiteside back helps the D.  And opponents can't all shoot from behind the arc like they are Drew Ferry again next year, can they?  Still, when you finish ranked 323 in defensive efficiency (one spot over a Niagara squad that seemed allergic to playing D), there's a problem.

I give you that the "all facets" comment was an overreach.  The D was bad, which I think was primarily a function of the personnel we had.  Hopefully bringing in a couple of bigger interior players will help on that front.

Recruiting a center with size would be nice,

Quote from: scoop85

Quote from: mountainred

Quote from: scoop85

Quote from: mountainred

Quote from: ugarte

Quote from: underskillhaving seen admittedly next to nothing of the team this year, is it clear that the program is on an upswing under Earl, or this just the case of one great Ivy player (Morgan) dragging the team up to 6 wins, and then the program can expect to decline once he leaves (like Columbia, Brown etc. the past few years)

probably a little bit of Earl, a little bit of Morgan, a little bit of the conference having a down year - Penn is a 16 seed.

While making the ILT was great, there was a bit of luck to it.  Cornell's final KenPom rating is still mired in the bottom 100 and not much better than Courtney's last team.  In baseball, it would be like winning the second wild-card but with a negative run differential.  The play-off game is great, but there is a nagging sense that it took a lot to go right that is not likely to be repeated.

I won't argue with the analytics, but after a rough early start in league play, the eye test tells me that the team improved in most facets, and it was a heck of a lot more enjoyable to watch a team that actually ran a structured offense, often beautifully.

Agree 100% on the offense. The ball movement was great and the guys generated tons of good looks. Assists on 60% of the made baskets (24th best in the nation).  It was fun to watch and so much better than the hero ball of the Courtney years.

But I gotta disagree on the defense.  Other than having Brown's number, it was bad all season.  Maybe adding Dickson and getting Troy Whiteside back helps the D.  And opponents can't all shoot from behind the arc like they are Drew Ferry again next year, can they?  Still, when you finish ranked 323 in defensive efficiency (one spot over a Niagara squad that seemed allergic to playing D), there's a problem.

I give you that the "all facets" comment was an overreach.  The D was bad, which I think was primarily a function of the personnel we had.  Hopefully bringing in a couple of bigger interior players will help on that front.

I like some of the things Earl tried on D -- having Julian regularly apply token pressure was a nice touch.  It didn't lead to turnovers, but it forced teams to use a bit of the shot clock just getting the ball up court.  Neither Stone nor Matt are great defenders, and you need them on the floor, so Earl is limited in his options.

Next year should be fine.  Earl's real test is the following year.

Quote from: Ken711Recruiting a center with size would be nice,

I think Dickson, a 6'9" rebounding machine who can score, should fit the bill as a solid interior guy in the Ivy League. Like usual we'll be outmatched against the power conference teams that we play, but should be in the hunt against anyone else.

BleacherReport has Penn 60 of 68 teams in the 2018 basketball tournament. http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2762679-ncaa-tournament-2018-power-ranking-all-68-teams

They remember us:

Quote from: Bleacher ReportThe Ivy League has produced some outstanding Cinderella candidates in recent years. In fact, dating back to Cornell in 2010, this conference has won five tournament games and had losses by seven points or fewer against Duke, North Carolina, Kentucky, Michigan State and Notre Dame. This Penn team is probably the weakest during that time. At this point, though, you simply can't write off this league's chance of an upset.

Worst of the least is North Carolina Central.

Verbal Commits tweeted that Bathurst is "leaving the program."  I assume that means he's graduating and will play as a grad student elsewhere like Miller and Onourah.

Quote from: scoop85Verbal Commits tweeted that Bathurst is "leaving the program."  I assume that means he's graduating and will play as a grad student elsewhere like Miller and Onourah.

Has to be.  He was honored as a senior, so he's leaving on good terms.  Might as well get someone to pay for a year of grad school.

I know you weren't trying to name them all, but Galal Cancer did the same thing. This Ivy rule of not permitting grad students to play is annoying.

Cornell and Duke now even - both seasons ended. And it wasn't Cornell that delayed the Stormy Daniels interview by going to OT.

Quote from: billhowardCornell and Duke now even - both seasons ended. And it wasn't Cornell that delayed the Stormy Daniels interview by going to OT.

* except on the West Coast

Earl adds another guard to this year recruiting class:  Dean Noll (http://www.philly.com/philly/sports/high_school/dean-noll-cornell-basketball-recruit-commit-signing-shawnee-20180323.html)

#Imnotascout, but I think the three seniors who are coming on board had one D1 offer among them.  Let's hope Earl can spot talent other coaches miss.

Quote from: Philly.comThe 6-foot-1 Noll, who averaged 21.6 points in leading Shawnee to a 29-5 record and the No. 1 spot in the Inquirer's final Top 25, had offers from NCAA Division II programs such as Caldwell and University of the Sciences. But he was holding out hope for an offer from a Division I program.

Good for him. Cornell is the big time. Plus Brian Earl played at Shawnee, the same school.

https://twitter.com/TheRealMM10/status/980825318083657728

While it doesn't say he's signing with an agent, the tone of his tweet seems to indicate he's gone regardless.

who is it?

weird - i posted the tweet link also and it isn't rendering as a tweet, just the tweet text. it's matt morgan, declaring for the draft. http://cornellsun.com/2018/04/02/junior-matt-morgan-declares-for-nba-draft/

the tweet is embedded in the Sun story.

I think what he heard from the league was probably a text from vlade divac like "r u high?"

Quote from: ugarteweird - i posted the tweet link also and it isn't rendering as a tweet, just the tweet text. it's matt morgan, declaring for the draft. http://cornellsun.com/2018/04/02/junior-matt-morgan-declares-for-nba-draft/

the tweet is embedded in the Sun story.

I think what he heard from the league was probably a text from vlade divac like "r u high?"

He has also tweeted:  "I will not be signing an agent at this time to retain my eligibility!!!!"

I don't blame him for seeing where his stock is.  But the tone of the earlier tweet sure sounds final.  And a lot more final than last year's announcement (http://cornellsun.com/2017/04/23/morgan-declares-for-nba-draft-but-expects-to-return-to-cornell/).  "It's more putting my name on the radar in case next year or the year after that I decide to do this again," Morgan told The Sun. "Of course, if I can go this year, I will, but we'll see what happens."

Quote from: mountainred

Quote from: ugarteweird - i posted the tweet link also and it isn't rendering as a tweet, just the tweet text. it's matt morgan, declaring for the draft. http://cornellsun.com/2018/04/02/junior-matt-morgan-declares-for-nba-draft/

the tweet is embedded in the Sun story.

I think what he heard from the league was probably a text from vlade divac like "r u high?"

He has also tweeted:  "I will not be signing an agent at this time to retain my eligibility!!!!"

I don't blame him for seeing where his stock is.  But the tone of the earlier tweet sure sounds final.  And a lot more final than last year's announcement (http://cornellsun.com/2017/04/23/morgan-declares-for-nba-draft-but-expects-to-return-to-cornell/).  "It's more putting my name on the radar in case next year or the year after that I decide to do this again," Morgan told The Sun. "Of course, if I can go this year, I will, but we'll see what happens."

This entire announcement makes almost zero sense unless he's fairly certain he will actually get drafted, which, given that he is a 6'2 shooting guard(?), seems like a longshot?

michael_scott_i_declare_bankruptcy.gif

Quote from: BearLover

Quote from: mountainred

Quote from: ugarteweird - i posted the tweet link also and it isn't rendering as a tweet, just the tweet text. it's matt morgan, declaring for the draft. http://cornellsun.com/2018/04/02/junior-matt-morgan-declares-for-nba-draft/

the tweet is embedded in the Sun story.

I think what he heard from the league was probably a text from vlade divac like "r u high?"

He has also tweeted:  "I will not be signing an agent at this time to retain my eligibility!!!!"

I don't blame him for seeing where his stock is.  But the tone of the earlier tweet sure sounds final.  And a lot more final than last year's announcement (http://cornellsun.com/2017/04/23/morgan-declares-for-nba-draft-but-expects-to-return-to-cornell/).  "It's more putting my name on the radar in case next year or the year after that I decide to do this again," Morgan told The Sun. "Of course, if I can go this year, I will, but we'll see what happens."

This entire announcement makes almost zero sense unless he's fairly certain he will actually get drafted, which, given that he is a 6'2 shooting guard(?), seems like a longshot?

I wouldn't be surprised if Matt made a nice career for himself in Europe.  But I agree the NBA seems like a longshot.  Of course, I never watched Jeremy Lin and thought "there is a man who will play 7+ seasons in the NBA" so what do I know.

Quote from: scoop85https://twitter.com/TheRealMM10/status/980825318083657728

While it doesn't say he's signing with an agent, the tone of his tweet seems to indicate he's gone regardless.

Yeah, sorry about that.  When I previewed the post, the tweet appeared there in its entirety.

Anyhow, while I think he's a terrific player, I think the NBA is an uphill climb. Certainly a career overseas seems much more likely, but I'll be pulling for him regardless.

Quote from: mountainredI don't blame him for seeing where his stock is.  But the tone of the earlier tweet sure sounds final.  And a lot more final than last year's announcement (http://cornellsun.com/2017/04/23/morgan-declares-for-nba-draft-but-expects-to-return-to-cornell/).  "It's more putting my name on the radar in case next year or the year after that I decide to do this again," Morgan told The Sun. "Of course, if I can go this year, I will, but we'll see what happens."

Most recent statement in the Sun

"We talked about it between my family, my coaches and I and we all agreed [declaring for the draft] was a good move for me," Morgan said in a text message to The Sun.

Morgan said while he hopes to be drafted by an NBA team, he will return to Cornell for his senior season if he isn't selected.


"I'm going into this process with the intention of getting selected to play for a NBA organization, but I don't want to lose my last year of college if that opportunity isn't there for me," he said.

Add another JUCO recruit.  Thurston McCarty, last of East Central Community College in Mississippi.  He is 6-7, but rail thin.  He looks like he has a nice shooting touch from his posted videos, but no one ever misses in those videos. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MB3q2jrzIdc&feature=youtu.be)  Still, welcome aboard.

Reported on Twitter that Gettings is graduating early and will be doing a grad year elsewhere

Quote from: scoop85Reported on Twitter that Gettings is graduating early and will be doing a grad year elsewhere

Even worse, Goodman says he plans to redshirt this year. (EDIT:  He only has one year of eligibility left.  I shouldn't post on limited sleep.) If he and Morgan are gone, this is going to be a tough season.

Yeah, good for him I guess but also oh nooooooooooooooooooo http://cornellsun.com/2018/05/15/mens-basketballs-gettings-to-delay-eligibility-and-transfer-next-season/

As per Matt Morgan on Twitter, he's withdrawn from the NBA draft and it appears he'll be playing for Cornell next year. I'm having trouble pasting the Twitter link, but he said, "Last ride with my dawgs! Coming for what's ours!"

Quote from: scoop85As per Matt Morgan on Twitter, he's withdrawn from the NBA draft and it appears he'll be playing for Cornell next year. I'm having trouble pasting the Twitter link, but he said, "Last ride with my dawgs! Coming for what's ours!"

Good News.  Matt's Twitter Feed (https://twitter.com/TheRealMM10?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor)

Daily Sun Article on Morgan's return (http://cornellsun.com/2018/05/29/morgan-to-withdraw-from-nba-draft-ivy-league-leading-scorer-will-return-to-cornell-for-senior-year/)