Basketball deserves a new thread each year. Here.
Men's Basketball Picked Eighth in Ivy Preseason Poll (http://www.cornellbigred.com/news/2015/10/21/MBB_1021152722.aspx), as noted earlier, sounds better than "picked last."
Rank School Points
1. Yale (5) 117
2. Columbia (6) 114
3. Princeton (6) 108
4. Harvard 96
5. Brown 54
6. Dartmouth 50
7. Penn 48
8. Cornell 25
Nice contrast between image and caption. "SOAR! Shit, never mind."
Quote from: billhowardBasketball deserves a new thread each year. Here.
"Deserve" is a rather strong term, under the circumstances. But a new thread makes sense.
Quote from: KeithKQuote from: billhowardBasketball deserves a new thread each year. Here.
"Deserve" is a rather strong term, under the circumstances. But a new thread makes sense.
"Picked" is a rather strong term. More like "By process of elimination".
Quote from: Kyle RoseQuote from: KeithKQuote from: billhowardBasketball deserves a new thread each year. Here.
"Deserve" is a rather strong term, under the circumstances. But a new thread makes sense.
"Picked" is a rather strong term. More like "By process of elimination".
The minimum total seems to be 17 points. That we got 25 means that at least two voters didn't rank us 8th.
Quote from: KeithKQuote from: billhowardBasketball deserves a new thread each year. Here.
"Deserve" is a rather strong term, under the circumstances. But a new thread makes sense.
Thread Bear.
Ken Pomeroy is pretty down on the team too. He released his first set of 2015-16 ratings and has Cornell #311 overall, which is significantly behind 7th place Brown (#243). That rating, and Cornell's schedule, translates to a predicted 8 win season (4-10 in the league). The losses of Miller, Cherry and Cancer from what was a pretty poor offensive team last year result in a dreadful offensive rating that is nearly the worst in the nation.
In fairness, Ken underestimated Cornell last year. The Big Red started in the 300's, but steadily climbed to spend most of the season in the 175-200 range (which translates to "slightly below average" nationally). His pre-season ratings are based on incomplete information, such as the impact of newcomers.
And this team could have some serious newcomers. There are 8 freshman; Stone Gettings out of Los Angeles was highly regarded by ESPN and Matt Morgan was a huge scorer (2000 career points) from a suburban Charlotte high school. Throw in that last year was pretty much a lost season for Soph. Pat Smith, but he played well when injuries didn't keep him off the court. If the kids earn some PT, this team could be interesting to watch in a rebuilding kind of way. If they rely on Junior class (there are no Seniors of note), this is going to be a long slog of a season that will see Hatter lead the league in scoring but likely break the school record for shots taken to get there.
Voice of the Red Barry Leonard did a season preview for Ivy Hoops Online: http://ivyhoopsonline.com/2015/11/02/cornell-season-preview-youth-must-be-served/
10-14 wins is probably a bit optimistic, but Harvard has already lost Siriyani Chambers to an ACL injury and Penn's leading returning scorer, Tony Hicks, has left the team.
Quote from: mountainredVoice of the Red Barry Leonard did a season preview for Ivy Hoops Online: http://ivyhoopsonline.com/2015/11/02/cornell-season-preview-youth-must-be-served/
10-14 wins is probably a bit optimistic, but Harvard has already lost Siriyani Chambers to an ACL injury and Penn's leading returning scorer, Tony Hicks, has left the team.
"...the upside is huge!" Assuming no more key players leave the program as been the norm in the last few seasons.
Quote from: Ken711Quote from: mountainredVoice of the Red Barry Leonard did a season preview for Ivy Hoops Online: http://ivyhoopsonline.com/2015/11/02/cornell-season-preview-youth-must-be-served/
10-14 wins is probably a bit optimistic, but Harvard has already lost Siriyani Chambers to an ACL injury and Penn's leading returning scorer, Tony Hicks, has left the team.
"...the upside is huge!" Assuming no more key players leave the program as been the norm in the last few seasons.
Not a fan of Bill's, but the only key player to "leave the program" was Cressler (okay Cancer left, but he came back). Peck, Miller, Tarwater, and (later) Cancer all graduated. To me, that's more on archaic Ivy League rules than BC.
If the game notes are to be trusted, the starters will be Robert Hatter, Daryl Smith, Matt Morgan, Jordan Abdur Ra'oof, and David Onuorah. I think Jordan and David can defend well (though maybe not against Ga Tech), but neither has had much of an offensive presence; Onuorah doesn't shoot unless it is a dunk or putback and Jordan was 4-21 from inside the arc last season. That's going to make the offensive very one dimensional.
Interesting, and promising, is that Freshman Morgan should start. His high school game was scoring and this team needs someone other than Hatter to take shots.
Season opener for Big Red: Georgia Tech 116, Cornell 81. Halftime, a reasonable 57-49 deficit, Cornell got it down to a couple early in the second, then the roof fell in. Fr Matt Morgan gets 20, Robert Hatter 19, fr Stone Gattings 11. We score 80 every game in the Ivies, we'll win quite a few.
116-81 Georgia Tech. Losing at an ACC school isn't a surprise, but this wasn't the way I expected it to happen.
The Big Red fell behind early, but closed to within 2 early in the second half. Then it got ugly.
The good news is that Freshmen Matt Morgan and Stone Gettings played well - I think they combined for 34 points or so and most of those were while the game was still in reach.
The bad news is GT scored at will and outrebounded the Red by 50 (at least it felt that way). Shonn Miller's absence was felt.
Oh well, it wasn't like I had much hope of beating an ACC team. Colgate and Bingo will be better assessments of where this team is.
The second half was really ugly. No attempt at ball movement, Hatter kept trying to drive the lane on multiple defenders, shooting went cold, and this was not a team we were remotely capable of defending against. I really wish I'd seen the first half instead.
ON THE OTHER HAND, I didn't expect this to be close so I don't really care what we look like against Georgia Tech on the road.
Interesting: Freshman Stone Gattings is in Arts & Sciences AND he also lettered in water polo [edit add: in high school].
Quote from: ugarteHatter kept trying to drive the lane on multiple defenders.
In Hatter's defense, he was drawing fouls like crazy doing that in the first half. Then the refs swallowed their whistles and he kept trying it. I thought he had a nice overall game. The pass he threw to Morgan on the fast break was a thing of beauty.
And nice try at spin by the SID's office: "Georgia Tech's 116 points is the most allowed by a Big Red team in a game since Syracuse scored 120 in a 120-85 victory during the 1965-66 campaign.
Cornell went 15-9 that season." (emphasis mine). I doubt there is much cause and effect there.
Colgate game going into second OT as Cornell blows 19-point first-half lead and 8-point lead in first OT (how do you do that?).
Edit: 101-98 Cornell wins as a Colgate 3-pointer goes off the rim at the second-OT buzzer.
Big Red survive in double OT 101-98. The key in the second OT was to fall behind by 4.
Wil Bathurst had his best game in Red with 14 points (including a crazy runner to force the second OT) and 7 Rebounds. Daryl Smith huge in the OTs as well.
Hooooooly crap what a finish. I tuned in late in the second half after Cornell had blown a huge lead and got to see them come back with a clutch late 3. Then they blew another big lead in OT and tied it with another clutch three and then, after giving up 2, a great runner to send it to double OT. They led almost all of the double OT as well (though it was close throughout) and almost managed to blow it again with missed free throws, but after Bathurst hit one of two to give them a 3 point lead with 4.2 seconds left, Colgate was able to push the ball up and get a shot in the air at the buzzer and as it fell down inches from the rim... the Colgate video feed cut out. I had to check the Cornell Sports twitter account to make sure that it didn't go in.
Frustrating but ultimately excellent. A great week for the Big Red against the Red Raiders.
Quote from: mountainredBig Red survive in double OT 101-98. The key in the second OT was to fall behind by 4
nice
Quote from: ugarteHooooooly crap what a finish. I tuned in late in the second half after Cornell had blown a huge lead and got to see them come back with a clutch late 3. Then they blew another big lead in OT and tied it with another clutch three and then, after giving up 2, a great runner to send it to double OT. They led almost all of the double OT as well (though it was close throughout) and almost managed to blow it again with missed free throws, but after Bathurst hit one of two to give them a 3 point lead with 4.2 seconds left, Colgate was able to push the ball up and get a shot in the air at the buzzer and as it fell down inches from the rim... the Colgate video feed cut out. I had to check the Cornell Sports twitter account to make sure that it didn't go in.
Frustrating but ultimately excellent. A great week for the Big Red against the Red Raiders.
Gutty win on a night they could have quit. Colgate is going to show the attempted home run inbounds with about a minute left in regulation over and over and over in the film room. Foolish play and led to Daryl hitting the big trey in the corner.
Quote from: mountainredQuote from: ugarteHooooooly crap what a finish. I tuned in late in the second half after Cornell had blown a huge lead and got to see them come back with a clutch late 3. Then they blew another big lead in OT and tied it with another clutch three and then, after giving up 2, a great runner to send it to double OT. They led almost all of the double OT as well (though it was close throughout) and almost managed to blow it again with missed free throws, but after Bathurst hit one of two to give them a 3 point lead with 4.2 seconds left, Colgate was able to push the ball up and get a shot in the air at the buzzer and as it fell down inches from the rim... the Colgate video feed cut out. I had to check the Cornell Sports twitter account to make sure that it didn't go in.
Frustrating but ultimately excellent. A great week for the Big Red against the Red Raiders.
Gutty win on a night they could have quit. Colgate is going to show the attempted home run inbounds with about a minute left in regulation over and over and over in the film room. Foolish play and led to Daryl hitting the big trey in the corner.
I have to say, I thought the home run ball was a product of Cornell guarding the inbounds well. A guy broke out when the more rational options were all covered. The cameraman didn't do a great job of following the ball but I'll bet the pass didn't miss by much.
Two in row. Cornell 76 Bingo 59. The Bearcats made a few runs, but most of this game was played at a double digit spread.
Matt Morgan with 24, Daryl Smith with 16 which is nice to see.
Quote from: mountainredTwo in row. Cornell 76 Bingo 59. ...
Too bad Binghamton doesn't also have a football team. Unless it took football as seriously as Colgate does.
Back to .500. Canisius 87 Cornell 62. The loss isn't a surprise, the Griffs are solid and it was on the road, but the margin was disappointing. Especially since The Big Red lead by a point early in the second half.
And back to .500. After a win over a D3 opponent, the Big Red get blown out at Pitt. Didn't expect a win, but hoped it would be a bit more competitive.
Quote from: mountainredAnd back to .500. After a win over a D3 opponent, the Big Red get blown out at Pitt. Didn't expect a win, but hoped it would be a bit more competitive.
we lost by a lot against canisius. when pitt played gonzaga they were winning when the game got called. this is what i expected.
You expect we miss our first 13 shots, and lose by 44? How many Ivy games do you expect us to win?
Quote from: CASYou expect we miss our first 13 shots, and lose by 44? How many Ivy games do you expect us to win?
Hey, we only missed our first 12 shots.
I hoped to see a better effort, but having a Pitt law grad friend text me score updates throughout the night - even though he knew I was watching - probably colored my mood.
Next week will be a lot more telling than this past week's easy win and ugly loss. Sunday is a very winnable game at UMass-Lowell; Tuesday is a tough one at home against a solid Siena team and the following Saturday is at home versus a Layfayette team who just got embarrassed by Princeton 104-52. Going into the exam break at 5-4 is very possible.
Big Red lose on the road at UMass-Lowell 80-77. Guys fall behind by 15, but fight back so it is close throughout the second half. The good: Cornell forces 23 turnovers and freshman Matt Morgan scores 23 with 4 assists. The bad: UML outrebounded the Red by 46-27.
Quote from: mountainredBig Red lose on the road at UMass-Lowell 80-77. Guys fall behind by 15, but fight back so it is close throughout the second half. The good: Cornell forces 23 turnovers and freshman Matt Morgan scores 23 with 4 assists. The bad: UML outrebounded the Red by 46-27.
Cornell doesn't have a lot of height this year, being outrebounded will most likely happen often.
Quote from: Ken711Quote from: mountainredBig Red lose on the road at UMass-Lowell 80-77. Guys fall behind by 15, but fight back so it is close throughout the second half. The good: Cornell forces 23 turnovers and freshman Matt Morgan scores 23 with 4 assists. The bad: UML outrebounded the Red by 46-27.
Cornell doesn't have a lot of height this year, being outrebounded will most likely happen often.
True, but UML has even less. They started four guys 6-3 or shorter. Getting rebounded by UML is a bad, bad sign; Yale may collect every rebound.
Of course we follow the UML debacle with the best win by an Ivy this season. 81-80 over Siena. Hatter couldn't miss in the second half as the Big Red continue to match up well with the Saints. Cornell won handily there last year and even during the nightmarish 13-14 season, the Red played Siena down to the final horn.
Seriously, Siena has the best KenPom rating of any team that an Ivy has beaten so far this season. It was a quality win.
And UML was the worst team to beat an Ivy this season. Weird.
Quote from: mountainredAnd UML was the worst team to beat an Ivy this season. Weird.
Only just beginning. Hockey will probably have quality wins (ties?) over a top five team and then lose to an American International level team.
Quote from: billhowardQuote from: mountainredAnd UML was the worst team to beat an Ivy this season. Weird.
Only just beginning. Hockey will probably have quality wins (ties?) over a top five team and then lose to an American International level team.
This is the bball thread Bill. Hockey doesn't count.
Quote from: KeithKQuote from: billhowardQuote from: mountainredAnd UML was the worst team to beat an Ivy this season. Weird.
Only just beginning. Hockey will probably have quality wins (ties?) over a top five team and then lose to an American International level team.
This is the bball thread Bill. Hockey doesn't count.
The only thing worse than idle, counter-factual speculation is off-topic idle, counter-factual speculation.
Easy 85-67 win over Lafayette. 43-33 at the half. Hatter with 29.
Quote from: Al DeFlorioEasy 85-67 win over Lafayette. 43-33 at the half. Hatter with 29.
One of the better performances I've seen during Courtney's 6 years as HC. Lafayette has really taken a step back this year and is not very good, but Cornell can clearly play competitvely with most mid-majors.
Quote from: scoop85Quote from: Al DeFlorioEasy 85-67 win over Lafayette. 43-33 at the half. Hatter with 29.
One of the better performances I've seen during Courtney's 6 years as HC. Lafayette has really taken a step back this year and is not very good, but Cornell can clearly play competitvely with most mid-majors.
Was watching the wrestlers, so I missed the game. Lafayette isn't very good, but they did knock off Penn, so an 18 point win over them is solid.
Tossing out the D3 gimme, Cornell is 3-0 when Hatter scores 29 or more, 1-4 when he scores under 20. He has no games in between. It may really come down to: "If Hatter is on, Cornell can stay with anyone outside the top 100 or so; if he's not, the Big Red will struggle to score enough to win."
Today's noon game at Syracuse will apparently be on Yes Network on Cablevision in the NYC area.
Quote from: jeff '84Today's noon game at Syracuse will apparently be on Yes Network on Cablevision in the NYC area.
Down by 4 at the half, Cornell went on a 6-0 run to take the lead. Then it got very ugly. Syracuse by 21.
Quote from: ugarteQuote from: jeff '84Today's noon game at Syracuse will apparently be on Yes Network on Cablevision in the NYC area.
Down by 4 at the half, Cornell went on a 6-0 run to take the lead. Then it got very ugly. Syracuse by 21.
Should have been the Oh No network. Too bad the Cornell press guide doesn't show the Cornell-Syracuse series results versus the point spread. Then we'd have a fighting chance.
Right now, Kenpom.com projects Cornell to finish in a four way tie for 5th in the Ivies at 5-9. Brown is a mess and just had a guy transfer back to Florida Atlantic. Penn is 2-5 after a quick start and just barely beat D3 Ursinus. Dartmouth just got punished by UNH. The bottom half of the league is not very good this year, so 5th place is very realistic.
Monmouth on Wednesday is a tough one -- much tougher than when it was scheduled. The Hawks have beaten UCLA, USC, Notre Dame and Georgetown already this season.
Quote from: mountainredMonmouth on Wednesday is a tough one -- much tougher than when it was scheduled. The Hawks have beaten UCLA, USC, Notre Dame and Georgetown already this season.
That's an understatement. They are going to stunt on us AND reenact the Titanic maidenhead scene.
Quote from: mountainredRight now, Kenpom.com projects Cornell to finish in a four way tie for 5th in the Ivies at 5-9. . . . The bottom half of the league is not very good this year, so 5th place is very realistic.
If we finish in a four-way tie for 5th in an 8-team league, it means we finished in a four-way tie for last place. There will be no one below us in the standings. I suppose it's better than finishing 7th or 8th.
Quote from: ugarteQuote from: mountainredMonmouth on Wednesday is a tough one -- much tougher than when it was scheduled. The Hawks have beaten UCLA, USC, Notre Dame and Georgetown already this season.
That's an understatement. They are going to stunt on us AND reenact the Titanic maidenhead scene.
Did the Monmouth kids do anything interesting? (Aside from win?)
Quote from: ugarteQuote from: ugarteQuote from: mountainredMonmouth on Wednesday is a tough one -- much tougher than when it was scheduled. The Hawks have beaten UCLA, USC, Notre Dame and Georgetown already this season.
That's an understatement. They are going to stunt on us AND reenact the Titanic maidenhead scene.
Did the Monmouth kids do anything interesting? (Aside from win?)
Didn't see anything remarkable. They did come back from a 23-10 deficit to win.
Harvard leading #3 Oklahoma by two at the half of the Diamond Head tournament final.
Quote from: Al DeFlorioHarvard leading #3 Oklahoma by two at the half of the Diamond Head tournament final.
but the good guys cruised to an easy win in the second half
Quote from: ugarteQuote from: Al DeFlorioHarvard leading #3 Oklahoma by two at the half of the Diamond Head tournament final.
but the good guys cruised to an easy win in the second half
Harvard actually made a real nice run following OU's monster run to start the 2nd half. Endowasoma, who was maybe the most hyped b-ball recruit in Harvard history but has been a bit of disappointment so far, had a great game for Harvard
Harvard wants to dominate not just the Ivy League, but nationally in basketball.
http://www.lowellsun.com/ci_29312660/crimson-basketball-recruiting-class-ranked-12th-country
For some reason Derek Hatter didn't play. Without him, Cornell took Columbia to the wire on the road (and looked very good on defense) but lost by 4. Morgan lit it up and scored 29.
The last 20 seconds were exciting as hell. I like this squad but wish they could finish better at the rim.
Decent Cornell turnout at the game. I guess break isn't over at Columbia either because last year this game was packed.
Quote from: ugarteFor some reason Derek Hatter didn't play.
According to story in Sun (http://cornellsun.com/2016/01/16/despite-a-late-rally-cornell-basketball-is-unable-to-take-down-columbia/), Hatter showed up at the game wearing a walking boot.
Quote from: dbilmesQuote from: ugarteFor some reason Derek Hatter didn't play.
According to story in Sun (http://cornellsun.com/2016/01/16/despite-a-late-rally-cornell-basketball-is-unable-to-take-down-columbia/), Hatter showed up at the game wearing a walking boot.
UUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUGH
FYI, Courtney isn't going anywhere. The frosh looked good and the defense looked great. If this game is any indication of how the rest of the season is going to go, I think he'll get a new contract.
Quote from: ugarteQuote from: dbilmesQuote from: ugarteFor some reason Derek Hatter didn't play.
According to story in Sun (http://cornellsun.com/2016/01/16/despite-a-late-rally-cornell-basketball-is-unable-to-take-down-columbia/), Hatter showed up at the game wearing a walking boot.
UUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUGH
FYI, Courtney isn't going anywhere. The frosh looked good and the defense looked great. If this game is any indication of how the rest of the season is going to go, I think he'll get a new contract.
And, based upon the little that I know, he probably deserves it. It seems like he has some good freshmen and won't lose much next year.
This is year 6 of the Courtney era. We are 24-47 in the Ivies, 0-1 this year. We haven't finished in the top half of the Ivies in any of these years. Let's see how this year turns out. Do you think this performance over 5 and 1/2 years merits a new contract?
Columbia also won the return engagement in Ithaca, 79-68, dropping Cornell to 0-2 in the Ivies.
With the 2 losses to Columbia to start this Ivy season, Cornell in the 5-plus years under Courtney has now lost exactly 2/3 of its Ivy games (48 of 72). Btw Football in the 3 years under Coach Archer has lost 81% of its Ivy games (17 of 21).
Quote from: CASWith the 2 losses to Columbia to start this Ivy season, Cornell in the 5-plus years under Courtney has now lost exactly 2/3 of its Ivy games (48 of 72). Btw Football in the 3 years under Coach Archer has lost 81% of its Ivy games (17 of 21).
The hits just keep on coming
Quote from: scoop85Quote from: CASWith the 2 losses to Columbia to start this Ivy season, Cornell in the 5-plus years under Courtney has now lost exactly 2/3 of its Ivy games (48 of 72). Btw Football in the 3 years under Coach Archer has lost 81% of its Ivy games (17 of 21).
The hits just keep on coming
And these are the so-called major sports programs. ::looking::
Cornell hoops plays at defending Ivy champ Harvard tonight, & Dartmouth, which upset Harvard last Saturday, tomorrow.
Quote from: CASCornell hoops plays at defending Ivy champ Harvard tonight, & Dartmouth, which upset Harvard last Saturday, tomorrow.
DOWN GOES HARVARD.
Big win by Cornell. With the free throws at the end, the Big Red run away for a 12 point win.
Quote from: ugarteQuote from: CASCornell hoops plays at defending Ivy champ Harvard tonight, & Dartmouth, which upset Harvard last Saturday, tomorrow.
DOWN GOES HARVARD.
Big win by Cornell. With the free throws at the end, the Big Red run away for a 12 point win.
Wild game. Down by 8 early. Up by 15 at the half. Down again early second half. Score last 13 points to win by 12.
Big win. Do you think it will save Courtney's job? Do we want to save Courtney's job?
Harvard, with losses of several key players due to graduation and injury, is not the team that dominated the Ivies recently. Harvard's record is now 9-10. Courtney should be judged by his record over his entire tenure at Cornell.
since the BOT care so little about sports at cornell , and care little about anything at cornell it seems except profits in the endowment , we may see little change in any sport no matter the results.
I think this is the most watchable team Courtney has put together, and guys like Hatter, Morgan, and Smith are tremendous players for this level, his inability to bring in a big man with an offensive game is troubling. That being said, if the team is at or even near .500 this year, hard to see Noel pulling the plug, as next year's roster would appear to be Courtney's best yet.
Quote from: SwampyBig win. Do you think it will save Courtney's job? Do we want to save Courtney's job?
Yes & Yes. Courtney is the best recruiter the program has ever had. If anything, he should have brought in an experienced former HC as an assistant to help him learn on the job. Basketball is never going to get a successful HC to build its program. Team is starting to show promise and is pretty young. Give him an extension.
You are what your record is. Courtney is 25-46 in the Ivies, 1-2 this year. Does winning a third of your games merit an extension? In the 6 years before Courtney was hired, Steve Donahue had 6 consecutive winning Ivy records, never finishing below 3rd in the league. We haven't finished in the top half of the Ivies since.
Quote from: ithacatQuote from: SwampyBig win. Do you think it will save Courtney's job? Do we want to save Courtney's job?
Yes & Yes. Courtney is the best recruiter the program has ever had. If anything, he should have brought in an experienced former HC as an assistant to help him learn on the job. Basketball is never going to get a successful HC to build its program. Team is starting to show promise and is pretty young. Give him an extension.
An experienced former HC as an assistant why would they have wanted that job. If the team finishes last in the final Ivy League standings, it's time to move on.,
Another fantastic finish: trailing 61-70, 15 straight points makes it 76-70 and a final score of 77-73.
Quote from: Al DeFlorioAnother fantastic finish: trailing 61-70, 15 straight points makes it 76-70 and a final score of 77-73.
thank god for hoops lol
When will Hatter return? Smith another 33 points tonight. Only question is will he be Ivy POTW or Ivy Rookie OTW?
Quote from: margolismWhen will Hatter return? Smith another 33 points tonight. Only question is will he be Ivy POTW or Ivy Rookie OTW?
Morgan, not Smith, had 32.
Quote from: CASYou are what your record is. Courtney is 25-46 in the Ivies, 1-2 this year. Does winning a third of your games merit an extension? In the 6 years before Courtney was hired, Steve Donahue had 6 consecutive winning Ivy records, never finishing below 3rd in the league. We haven't finished in the top half of the Ivies since.
Here are the records of the last two coaches in their first five years:
3-11 (7th)
2-12 (7th)
4-10 (5th)
6-8 (5th)
8-6 (2nd)
Total: 23-47
6-8 (5th)
7-7 (5th)
5-9 (6th)
1-13 (8th)
5-9 (5th)
Total: 24-46
Winning a third of his Ivy games was enough to keep Donahue in Ithaca. If you're wondering, both coaches started year 6 at 2-2. Courtney lost two games to Columbia. Donahue lost at home to the Lions and got beat by 40 at Penn.
Columbia is 4-0 in league and 15-6 overall. They no sucky sucky.
Quote from: TrotskyColumbia is 4-0 in league and 15-6 overall. They no sucky sucky.
And, at least in NYC, we could have had them if our guys finished just a little better at the rim that night.
Quote from: ugarteQuote from: TrotskyColumbia is 4-0 in league and 15-6 overall. They no sucky sucky.
And, at least in NYC, we could have had them if our guys finished just a little better at the rim that night.
Having Hatter on the court would have helped, too.
Quote from: Chris '03Quote from: CASYou are what your record is. Courtney is 25-46 in the Ivies, 1-2 this year. Does winning a third of your games merit an extension? In the 6 years before Courtney was hired, Steve Donahue had 6 consecutive winning Ivy records, never finishing below 3rd in the league. We haven't finished in the top half of the Ivies since.
Here are the records of the last two coaches in their first five years:
3-11 (7th)
2-12 (7th)
4-10 (5th)
6-8 (5th)
8-6 (2nd)
Total: 23-47
6-8 (5th)
7-7 (5th)
5-9 (6th)
1-13 (8th)
5-9 (5th)
Total: 24-46
Winning a third of his Ivy games was enough to keep Donahue in Ithaca. If you're wondering, both coaches started year 6 at 2-2. Courtney lost two games to Columbia. Donahue lost at home to the Lions and got beat by 40 at Penn.
To play Devil's Advocate here, let's just say that the state of the program inherited by Donahue was just a bit different than the one inherited by Courtney. The three seasons prior to Donahue's hire, the team went a combined 30-49 (15-27 Ivy). I'm sure you see where this is going, but Courtney inherited a program coming off the three best years in school history, culminating in a high profile run to the Sweet 16 that at the very least should have made it a bit easier to recruit. (For completeness, those 3 teams went 72-21 (38-4 Ivy) - Miss you Witt/Lou/Foote). I was firmly in the fire Courtney corner for most of the last two years, and I still think he's a terrible tactical coach, but it's hard to argue with the quality of the players he's brought to Ithaca. If Ivy League rules didn't strip Miller of his eligibility to finish here, we're likely looking at a contender to win the Ivies.
Quote from: semsoxQuote from: Chris '03Quote from: CASYou are what your record is. Courtney is 25-46 in the Ivies, 1-2 this year. Does winning a third of your games merit an extension? In the 6 years before Courtney was hired, Steve Donahue had 6 consecutive winning Ivy records, never finishing below 3rd in the league. We haven't finished in the top half of the Ivies since.
Here are the records of the last two coaches in their first five years:
3-11 (7th)
2-12 (7th)
4-10 (5th)
6-8 (5th)
8-6 (2nd)
Total: 23-47
6-8 (5th)
7-7 (5th)
5-9 (6th)
1-13 (8th)
5-9 (5th)
Total: 24-46
Winning a third of his Ivy games was enough to keep Donahue in Ithaca. If you're wondering, both coaches started year 6 at 2-2. Courtney lost two games to Columbia. Donahue lost at home to the Lions and got beat by 40 at Penn.
To play Devil's Advocate here, let's just say that the state of the program inherited by Donahue was just a bit different than the one inherited by Courtney. The three seasons prior to Donahue's hire, the team went a combined 30-49 (15-27 Ivy). I'm sure you see where this is going, but Courtney inherited a program coming off the three best years in school history, culminating in a high profile run to the Sweet 16 that at the very least should have made it a bit easier to recruit. (For completeness, those 3 teams went 72-21 (38-4 Ivy) - Miss you Witt/Lou/Foote). I was firmly in the fire Courtney corner for most of the last two years, and I still think he's a terrible tactical coach, but it's hard to argue with the quality of the players he's brought to Ithaca. If Ivy League rules didn't strip Miller of his eligibility to finish here, we're likely looking at a contender to win the Ivies.
To play counter-devil's-advocate, Donohue's last year had a historically great Cornell senior class, assembled by almost pure luck. Foote ended up at Cornell because Gant almost died; Wittman happened to have a rich dad and a HS-senior-year injury; Dale was a 5'9" guard from Birmingham with Ivy-quality SATs (IIRC) and found Cornell, rather than the reverse. They all walked out the door when Donohue did, leaving a very depleted team behind and the exact same recruiting disadvantages that the Big Red have always had (less generous financial aid, less prestigious name*, godawful weather).
*Shut up, engineers. There are very few of you playing in the big-name sports.
Courtney's teams have always played good D and this year they have done some real good work. I'd be stunned if he were turfed unless the whole season craters.
Quote from: Al DeflorioHaving Hatter on the court would have helped, too.
Yeah, probably, though Morgan has really grabbed the reins with Hatter out. Obviously I'd love to have them both on the court but I wonder if there is enough oxygen for both or if they overlap too much.
Quote from: semsoxQuote from: Chris '03Quote from: CASYou are what your record is. Courtney is 25-46 in the Ivies, 1-2 this year. Does winning a third of your games merit an extension? In the 6 years before Courtney was hired, Steve Donahue had 6 consecutive winning Ivy records, never finishing below 3rd in the league. We haven't finished in the top half of the Ivies since.
Here are the records of the last two coaches in their first five years:
3-11 (7th)
2-12 (7th)
4-10 (5th)
6-8 (5th)
8-6 (2nd)
Total: 23-47
6-8 (5th)
7-7 (5th)
5-9 (6th)
1-13 (8th)
5-9 (5th)
Total: 24-46
Winning a third of his Ivy games was enough to keep Donahue in Ithaca. If you're wondering, both coaches started year 6 at 2-2. Courtney lost two games to Columbia. Donahue lost at home to the Lions and got beat by 40 at Penn.
To play Devil's Advocate here, let's just say that the state of the program inherited by Donahue was just a bit different than the one inherited by Courtney. The three seasons prior to Donahue's hire, the team went a combined 30-49 (15-27 Ivy). I'm sure you see where this is going, but Courtney inherited a program coming off the three best years in school history, culminating in a high profile run to the Sweet 16 that at the very least should have made it a bit easier to recruit. (For completeness, those 3 teams went 72-21 (38-4 Ivy) - Miss you Witt/Lou/Foote). I was firmly in the fire Courtney corner for most of the last two years, and I still think he's a terrible tactical coach, but it's hard to argue with the quality of the players he's brought to Ithaca. If Ivy League rules didn't strip Miller of his eligibility to finish here, we're likely looking at a contender to win the Ivies.
That's fair, in part. The '11 team was never going to be as successful as the '08-'10 teams. It's not as if Steve left a core behind when he jumped to BC. The '10 team was its seniors. It's hard to blame the regression (from to the zenith of modern Cornell basketball) on a coach who had no hand in selecting the talent.
Morgan Ivy co-player of the week AND rookie of the week.
He is the 4th leading score among freshman in the country.
To follow up a great weekend, we get Hatter back aaaaaaaaaand lose to Brown. Come on.
Quote from: ugarteTo follow up a great weekend, we get Hatter back aaaaaaaaaand lose to Brown. Come on.
It's an old story, but Courtney's in-game coaching has not gotten better in almost 6 years.
Quote from: scoop85Quote from: ugarteTo follow up a great weekend, we get Hatter back aaaaaaaaaand lose to Brown. Come on.
It's an old story, but Courtney's in-game coaching has not gotten better in almost 6 years.
So true.
Luck always plays a role in sports and recruiting. Ed Marinaro was overlooked by football recruiters because of a knee injury his senior year. Chris Vandenburg who was a highly regarded basketball recruit (Personally recruited on campus by Hunter Rawlings) hardly ever got on the floor because of knee problems. The list goes on. There is a reason that athletic recruits are called prospects-for most one does not know how they will develop. For many of the kids who hold these "Signing Press Conferences" where they announce their choice of college things do not work out for them athletically. Credit on the other hand should go to Donahue and his staff for the way they developed Jeff Foote and the tendency to overlook other members of the Sweet 16 team besides Foote, Dale, and Wittman who contributed in great measure to that team's success.
Cornell smacked down by Yale losing 52-83.
Quote from: rss77Luck always plays a role in sports and recruiting. Ed Marinaro was overlooked by football recruiters because of a knee injury his senior year. Chris Vandenburg who was a highly regarded basketball recruit (Personally recruited on campus by Hunter Rawlings) hardly ever got on the floor because of knee problems. The list goes on. There is a reason that athletic recruits are called prospects-for most one does not know how they will develop. For many of the kids who hold these "Signing Press Conferences" where they announce their choice of college things do not work out for them athletically. Credit on the other hand should go to Donahue and his staff for the way they developed Jeff Foote and the tendency to overlook other members of the Sweet 16 team besides Foote, Dale, and Wittman who contributed in great measure to that team's success.
All true and well said. My point was less to diminish Donohue and what he did for the program and more to say that his peak is a bad point of comparison for future coaches (including Courtney) both because it was so uncharacteristic of the program, historically and because of the unlikely way the team came togehter.
Nice to see Shonn Miller drove down (http://www.nhregister.com/sports/20160210/shonn-millers-athleticism-has-been-a-revelation-for-uconn) to Yale last weekend to cheer on his former teammates. Too bad that the stupidity of Ivy League rules prevented him from playing for the Big Red.
Cornell falls to Princeton 85-56 tonite. Cornell is now 2-5 in Ivies this year, and 26-49 in Bill Courtney's 6 years.
Quote from: CASCornell falls to Princeton 85-56 tonite. Cornell is now 2-5 in Ivies this year, and 26-49 in Bill Courtney's 6 years.
Unfortunately more evidence that Courtney is in over his head and needs to go.
Courtney's Ivy record is actually 26-51 over the 6 years. Steve Donahue returns to Ithaca with Penn tonite.
Quote from: CASCourtney's Ivy record is actually 26-51 over the 6 years. Steve Donahue returns to Ithaca with Penn tonite.
Make that 26-52, as Cornell loses to Penn 92-84.
Not looking so good!
Quote from: Ken711Quote from: CASCourtney's Ivy record is actually 26-51 over the 6 years. Steve Donahue returns to Ithaca with Penn tonite.
Make that 26-52, as Cornell loses to Penn 92-84.
Now at 26-53 with loss to Dartmouth.
Cornell blows a 21 point halftime lead at home and loses to Harvard by 2. Good lord.
Quote from: ugarteCornell blows a 21 point halftime lead at home and loses to Harvard by 2. Good lord.
Now 26-54 for Courtney. Andy needs to make a change now after the season.
Final tonite - Penn 79 - Cornell 67. Penn under Donahue is now 5-5 in Ivies. Cornell loses its 7th straight, falls to 2-9 and last in Ivies.
Money talks....so just stop sending money to support the program.
Cornell Ivy record under Steve Donahue 2004/5-2009/10 - 63-21
Cornell Ivy record under his successor, Bill Courtney 2010/11-present - 26-55
Quote from: CASCornell Ivy record under Steve Donahue 2004/5-2009/10 - 63-21
Cornell Ivy record under his successor, Bill Courtney 2010/11-present - 26-55
Courtney needs to go, but it doesn't make sense to show only the half of Donahue's tenure during which Cornell was good.
I wanted to demonstrate the precipitous decline of the program under Courtney.
Cornell loses yet again, this time to Princeton 60-74.
Not surprisingly, Cornell gets destroyed by Yale. Yale can clinch with a win against Columbia tomorrow.
Also I can definitely see Courtney getting fired now but I don't think it will happen and I don't exactly want it to.
9 consecutive Ivy losses. Ugarte, what would it take for you to think a change should be made?
Quote from: CAS9 consecutive Ivy losses. Ugarte, what would it take for you to think a change should be made?
A scandal, tbh. It's not like I'm happy with the results I just don't remember the last time we fired our basketball coach.
So you don't think coaches need to run a competitive program? As long as there is no scandal, they should have lifetime employment?
Quote from: ugarteNot surprisingly, Cornell gets destroyed by Yale. Yale can clinch with a win against Columbia tomorrow.
Also I can definitely see Courtney getting fired now but I don't think it will happen and I don't exactly want it to.
He certainly deserves to be fired.
if people on campus were held to the same standard as a coach you would have 90% of them fired now.
Quote from: upprdeckif people on campus were held to the same standard as a coach you would have 90% of them fired now.
If Harvard undergrads performed at the level of our basketball program. .....
they'd graduate with honors.
Eh?
Quote from: ugarteQuote from: CAS9 consecutive Ivy losses. Ugarte, what would it take for you to think a change should be made?
A scandal, tbh. It's not like I'm happy with the results I just don't remember the last time we fired our basketball coach.
Cornell fired basketball coach Tony Coma in the early '70s. Coma lost the support of black and then white players; he had been brought in from a heavily black college in hopes he could restore peace with black players on the team. He had drinking issues. The coaches committed minor recruiting violations, to wit paying application fees for prospective players. And it all made Sports Illustrated (which Coma said coming into the program was one of his goals) under the headline "Low in Cayuga's Waters." The real issue was Cornell didn't do much research into his background at his previous stop, Cheyney State (PA). Frank Dolson, sports editor of the Philadelphia Inquirer at the time, said afterwards people in the media who knew him were surprised that Cornell didn't vet more thoroughly. (Coma finished his career coaching girls HS basketball and passed on 20 years ago at 63, so R.I.P.)
Recall the Coma problems came late in the era of athletic director/athletic dean and Olympian Bob Kane '36, a dapper gentleman, a big macher in the US Olympic committee, and well liked by alumni but perhaps not equipped to handle a different era of athletes post-1960s.
What we have in 2016 is a coach who hasn't succeeded in the W column. Far cry from a program that wasn't under control.
Cornell beats Brown 75-71 ends the season in a tie for last place in the Ivy League with Brown.
Quote from: Ken711Cornell beats Brown 75-71 ends the season in a tie for last place in the Ivy League with Brown.
I believe you mean a tie for
7th.
Quote from: ugarteQuote from: Ken711Cornell beats Brown 75-71 ends the season in a tie for last place in the Ivy League with Brown.
I believe you mean a tie for 7th.
Cellar dwellers? ::thud::
Well, Bill was arrested for DWI in Syracuse driving back from a stripper club:) years ago.
http://nypost.com/2016/03/09/cornell-basketball-player-arrested-for-rape/
Courtney is good as gone now.
Speaking of arrests...
Cornell Basketball Player Xavier Eaglin '19 Arrested on Rape Charges (http://cornellsun.com/2016/03/08/cornell-basketball-player-xavier-eaglin-19-arrested-on-rape-charges/)
Quote from: Ken711http://nypost.com/2016/03/09/cornell-basketball-player-arrested-for-rape/
Courtney is good as gone now.
Wishful thinking.
Quote from: Ken711http://nypost.com/2016/03/09/cornell-basketball-player-arrested-for-rape/
Courtney is good as gone now.
A player being arrested does not necessarily equal loss of institutional control. Most obviously, the guy may be innocent.
Quote from: TrotskyQuote from: Ken711http://nypost.com/2016/03/09/cornell-basketball-player-arrested-for-rape/
Courtney is good as gone now.
A player being arrested does not necessarily equal loss of institutional control. Most obviously, the guy may be innocent.
His record alone is more than justification for letting him go. This program needs a fresh new start more than ever now.
Quote from: Ken711Quote from: TrotskyQuote from: Ken711http://nypost.com/2016/03/09/cornell-basketball-player-arrested-for-rape/
Courtney is good as gone now.
A player being arrested does not necessarily equal loss of institutional control. Most obviously, the guy may be innocent.
His record alone is more than justification for letting him go. This program needs a fresh new start more than ever now.
That may be true - you've certainly said as much - but using a rape charge against a player - with no reason to believe that Courtney had any reason to suspect this defect of character - is unfair. Even cheap. If - and I've never seen anything to suggest this - there had been prior accusations and Courtney helped sweep them under the rug, I'd pack up his office myself.
Hmmmm....let's see how this plays out. The athletic department has had several issues with sexual assault over the years but only 2 made the press and one was Pete Mesko (currently in prison). Very glad the university has a new policy to address these issues and eliminate the department from intervening...or anyone but proper officials for that matter. No one wants bad press but hopefully coverage of such issues will result in men thinking before assault.
Oh...Yale is also going through a similar issue.
Quote from: Ken711Quote from: TrotskyQuote from: Ken711http://nypost.com/2016/03/09/cornell-basketball-player-arrested-for-rape/
Courtney is good as gone now.
A player being arrested does not necessarily equal loss of institutional control. Most obviously, the guy may be innocent.
His record alone is more than justification for letting him go. This program needs a fresh new start more than ever now.
I agree Courtney needs to be gone, but only because of his dismal performance as coach, and not because one of his players has been arrested.
Quote from: Ken711Quote from: TrotskyQuote from: Ken711http://nypost.com/2016/03/09/cornell-basketball-player-arrested-for-rape/
Courtney is good as gone now.
A player being arrested does not necessarily equal loss of institutional control. Most obviously, the guy may be innocent.
His record alone is more than justification for letting him go. This program needs a fresh new start more than ever now.
I've got no argument with you re: his record. I'm just saying an accusation shouldn't factor into the equation at all, and even a conviction only factors in if there's reason to believe the program was negligent (or god forbid obstructionist) in its response.
Quote from: TrotskyQuote from: Ken711Quote from: TrotskyQuote from: Ken711http://nypost.com/2016/03/09/cornell-basketball-player-arrested-for-rape/
Courtney is good as gone now.
A player being arrested does not necessarily equal loss of institutional control. Most obviously, the guy may be innocent.
His record alone is more than justification for letting him go. This program needs a fresh new start more than ever now.
I've got no argument with you re: his record. I'm just saying an accusation shouldn't factor into the equation at all, and even a conviction only factors in if there's reason to believe the program was negligent (or god forbid obstructionist) in its response.
Agreed.
Given no change has been made to date, I'm guessing Courtney (27-57 in Ivies) will return for his 7th year as coach. Running a competitive program is not a necessity in Andy's athletic dep't.
Quote from: Ken711http://nypost.com/2016/03/09/cornell-basketball-player-arrested-for-rape/
Courtney is good as gone now.
Not at all a sure thing. This is only one player accused of rape.
It probably would have to be something much worse, like upperclassmen encouraging freshmen on the team to drink beer, to justify AN firing a coach.
The Score sent out an alert that he's fired.
Quote from: underskillThe Score sent out an alert that he's fired.
Must've been because of the email I sent to the Noel just this morning expressing my opinion that the coach needed to go. ;-)
Seriously, it's sad to see anyone lose a job, especially a person as well-liked as Courtney was. But if you're in the coaching business, you do need to win at least a bit; Courtney never showed any signs of turning things around.
Well, not renewed (http://cornellbigred.com/news/2016/3/14/cornell-does-not-renew-contract-of-head-mens-basketball-coach-bill-courtney.aspx). This makes sense to me. I can see searching for another guy but eating the cost of any remaining years would have been a mistake (or at least against type for the administration).
I assume Courtney knew the writing was on the wall when he wasn't offered an extension after last year (nor would I say he earned it).
Finally a good decision. Now let's see him hire a great coach!
Congratulations to Yale on their first Tournament victory. No question here... I guarantee a victory for the Blue-And-White on Saturday..... ::cheer:: ::wtf::
Yale making a late run on Duke in the Upper Class Twit of the Year Bowl.
The administration should consider recruiting Zach Spiker as the next head coach. He was instrumental if not the key recruiter of the Foote, Dale, Whitman era. As a recruiter he is relentless and has proven to have solid bench coaching skills....something Courtney could not ever improve upon. Noel hired Courtney because he had solid resume as an assistant. Charisma can only take a team so far.
Quote from: shasta1The administration should consider recruiting Zach Spiker as the next head coach. He was instrumental if not the key recruiter of the Foote, Dale, Whitman era. As a recruiter he is relentless and has proven to have solid bench coaching skills....something Courtney could not ever improve upon. Noel hired Courtney because he had solid resume as an assistant. Charisma can only take a team so far.
I think Spiker getting away a year before Donahue left was a bummer for the administration. He'd have been a no-brainer to step in if the Army job didn't open up when it did. Who knows if he'd want to leave that gig; Army is frequently a stepping stone job (Bob Knight and Coach K come to mind) and I'm not sure Cornell is a big enough step up.
Twitter says we're looking at Brian Earl, Zach Spiker, and Kevin App: https://twitter.com/IvyHoopsOnline/status/712125121536925696
Kevin and Brian Earl hmmm....shooting for the moon once again from Noel.
Quote from: shasta1Kevin and Brian Earl hmmm....shooting for the moon once again from Noel.
Bob Kane "shot for the moon" once and got Ned Harkness.
Quote from: Al DeFlorioQuote from: shasta1Kevin and Brian Earl hmmm....shooting for the moon once again from Noel.
Bob Kane "shot for the moon" once and got Ned Harkness.
Wasn't Harkness woefully underpaid at RPI in the 1960s, something like $10,000 ($75,000 today) at the time?
Quote from: billhowardQuote from: Al DeFlorioQuote from: shasta1Kevin and Brian Earl hmmm....shooting for the moon once again from Noel.
Bob Kane "shot for the moon" once and got Ned Harkness.
Wasn't Harkness woefully underpaid at RPI in the 1960s, something like $10,000 ($75,000 today) at the time?
Isn't this a truism? You're talking about one of the best, perhaps the best, college coaches in history. Name one other coach who put up record-breaking, undefeated seasons in two different sports. By definition, Ned Harkness was woefully underpaid.
Quote from: shasta1Kevin and Brian Earl hmmm....shooting for the moon once again from Noel.
What do you expect? Administration doesn't prioritize athletics. Facilities are woeful. Andy will be lucky to find a good one.
Zach Spiker off the board, he is hired as the new coach at Drexel.
Wow...you are able to name one shoot for the moon and it wasn't Noel's hire. Look at his hire's during his tenure, they basically suck! He takes the easy way out as much as possible and hires assistant coaches OR kids like Archer.
they should take a look at the guy GT just let go..
Quote from: upprdeckthey should take a look at the guy GT just let go..
Wonder why he got canned? Did a great job at Dayton and finally looked like he was turning Tech around...he'll get a much better job than Cornell.
The non-NCAA tournaments are not meaningful but still... Columbia beat Norfolk State, Ball State and NJIT in the CollegeInsider.com Tournament and will face UC-Irvine in the finals.
I had a friend who was a serious Duke and UVa fan. She called the NIT the National Losers' Tournament.
Quote from: ugarteThe non-NCAA tournaments are not meaningful but still... Columbia beat Norfolk State, Ball State and NJIT in the CollegeInsider.com Tournament and will face UC-Irvine in the finals.
Columbia won. And their coach promptly left to take over at San Fransisco.
Former Cornell assistant and current Penn assistant Nat Graham will be interviewed in Houston by Andy Noel.
Quote from: Ken711Former Cornell assistant and current Penn assistant Nat Graham will be interviewed in Houston by Andy Noel.
The Cornell Basketball Blog has been pushing for Nat so hard, you have to wonder if he gets a cut of his first year salary. Nat may well prove to be a great coach, but hiring him feels a lot like trying to live in the past. A happy, warm past, but the past nonetheless.
Quote from: mountainredQuote from: Ken711Former Cornell assistant and current Penn assistant Nat Graham will be interviewed in Houston by Andy Noel.
The Cornell Basketball Blog has been pushing for Nat so hard, you have to wonder if he gets a cut of his first year salary. Nat may well prove to be a great coach, but hiring him feels a lot like trying to live in the past. A happy, warm past, but the past nonetheless.
I hear you. Definitely not an "outside the Cornell family" type of hire.
EASY way out again for Andy. Nat is a nice guy but can he actually coach from the bench?
I took the phys. ed. basketball course back in Fall '05 and Nat Graham was our instructor. Great gym teacher!
Quote from: shasta1EASY way out again for Andy. Nat is a nice guy but can he actually coach from the bench?
Has Nat been hired or just interviewed?
It may be premature to accuse Andy of taking the easy way out. Then again, none of the candidates mentioned here are very accomplished.
Quote from: SwampyQuote from: shasta1EASY way out again for Andy. Nat is a nice guy but can he actually coach from the bench?
Has Nat been hired or just interviewed?
It may be premature to accuse Andy of taking the easy way out. Then again, none of the candidates mentioned here are very accomplished.
I have zero insider information, but I think he's just one of several interviewees.
Cornell basketball is an entry-level job, but that's okay. Cornell was the first head coach gig for 7 of our last 8 coaches. I'd rate 4 (Donahue, Jan VBK, Dement, and Miller) as successful in Ithaca, 2 (BC and Walker) as unsuccessful and 1 (Bluitt) as in-between as he left the program better than he found it, but that's not saying much because he found a dumpster fire. I'm okay with a first time coach but a Donahue protege doesn't match well with the current roster. Do you really want to see these guys take
more three's?
Quote from: mountainredQuote from: SwampyQuote from: shasta1EASY way out again for Andy. Nat is a nice guy but can he actually coach from the bench?
Has Nat been hired or just interviewed?
It may be premature to accuse Andy of taking the easy way out. Then again, none of the candidates mentioned here are very accomplished.
I have zero insider information, but I think he's just one of several interviewees.
Cornell basketball is an entry-level job, but that's okay. Cornell was the first head coach gig for 7 of our last 8 coaches. I'd rate 4 (Donahue, Jan VBK, Dement, and Miller) as successful in Ithaca, 2 (BC and Walker) as unsuccessful and 1 (Bluitt) as in-between as he left the program better than he found it, but that's not saying much because he found a dumpster fire. I'm okay with a first time coach but a Donahue protege doesn't match well with the current roster. Do you really want to see these guys take more three's?
I'm not necessarily pro- or anti- Nat, but in terms of him running Donahue's system, I think that would still be a step up from the <
> system we've been running the past few years on offense....
Quote from: SwampyIt may be premature to accuse Andy of ...
Not here it isn't
Quote from: billhowardQuote from: SwampyIt may be premature to accuse Andy of ...
Not here it isn't
Wins thread.