Should we just throw in the towel on Football? 9 winning seasons since 1980. Columbia does not play hockey or lax, Penn does not play hockey. Is football really worth the effort if we are not competitive?
Quote from: TowerroadShould we just throw in the towel on Football? 9 winning seasons since 1980. Columbia does not play hockey or lax, Penn does not play hockey. Is football really worth the effort if we are not competitive?
Not yet. There's still probably a shitload of alumni $$$ tied to it. Give it another decade for our equivalents of Monty Burns to croak. By then youth football will probably be dead anyway because of the adverse health effects. Do the Ivies have boxing teams anymore?
Not as long as Columbia exists. Three winning seasons in the last 50 years. Five since the founding of the league in 1956. In 24 out of the last 60 seasons (40%), they failed to win 2 games.
I can remember without researching three times where Cornell had an chance at a League Championship entering the final week.
Columbia plays on, so should we.
Quote from: RichHNot as long as Columbia exists. Three winning seasons in the last 50 years. Five since the founding of the league in 1956. In 24 out of the last 60 seasons (40%), they failed to win 2 games.
I can remember without researching three times where Cornell had an chance at a League Championship entering the final week.
Columbia plays on, so should we.
Just because Columbia makes bad decisions should we?
Quote from: RichHNot as long as Columbia exists. Three winning seasons in the last 50 years. Five since the founding of the league in 1956. In 24 out of the last 60 seasons (40%), they failed to win 2 games.
Never give up. Never surrender. (http://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/conferences/ivy/1961.html)
Quote from: TowerroadQuote from: RichHNot as long as Columbia exists. Three winning seasons in the last 50 years. Five since the founding of the league in 1956. In 24 out of the last 60 seasons (40%), they failed to win 2 games.
I can remember without researching three times where Cornell had an chance at a League Championship entering the final week.
Columbia plays on, so should we.
Just because Columbia makes bad decisions should we?
Losing is not a reason to stop. Holy crap, man.
Quote from: ugarteQuote from: TowerroadQuote from: RichHNot as long as Columbia exists. Three winning seasons in the last 50 years. Five since the founding of the league in 1956. In 24 out of the last 60 seasons (40%), they failed to win 2 games.
I can remember without researching three times where Cornell had an chance at a League Championship entering the final week.
Columbia plays on, so should we.
Just because Columbia makes bad decisions should we?
Losing is not a reason to stop. Holy crap, man.
It is not necessarily a reason to continue either. If it were a question a year or two or a few seasons that is one thing. But sometime you just have to say, "We are not good at this, lets take the precious resources we allocate to this activity and reallocate them." I don't know if football at Cornell is so profitable that it carries its own weight or not.
I am being a bit of a devils advocate here but I think it is a healthy topic. MIT, Cal Tech, U of Chicago don't have teams and they are all fine schools.
Quote from: TrotskyQuote from: RichHNot as long as Columbia exists. Three winning seasons in the last 50 years. Five since the founding of the league in 1956. In 24 out of the last 60 seasons (40%), they failed to win 2 games.
Never give up. Never surrender. (http://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/conferences/ivy/1961.html)
Long may it wave.
Quote from: TrotskyQuote from: TowerroadShould we just throw in the towel on Football? 9 winning seasons since 1980. Columbia does not play hockey or lax, Penn does not play hockey. Is football really worth the effort if we are not competitive?
Not yet. There's still probably a shitload of alumni $$$ tied to it. Give it another decade for our equivalents of Monty Burns to croak. By then youth football will probably be dead anyway because of the adverse health effects. Do the Ivies have boxing teams anymore?
I agree that football as we know it may be endangered as more and more data on the health effects comes in. Unfortunately, the brain health issue is also seriously affecting ice hockey. Perhaps ice hockey could more easily make adjustments without fundamentally altering the nature of the sport.
BTW, My 2 cents: Losing itself is no reason tothorw in the towel. Econmics and other priorities maybe. But football is iconic.
Quote from: Roy 82BTW, My 2 cents: Losing itself is no reason tothorw in the towel. Econmics and other priorities maybe. But football is iconic.
Especially so for college athletics, at least at schools that aren't masquerading as semi-pro teams. If the program is graduating its student athletes and there aren't significant off field issues then I see no reason that the win-loss record should be important in the fate of the program. And FWIW I have essentially no interest in Cornell football (precious litle for the NFL either these days).
Quote from: Roy 82Quote from: TrotskyQuote from: TowerroadShould we just throw in the towel on Football? 9 winning seasons since 1980. Columbia does not play hockey or lax, Penn does not play hockey. Is football really worth the effort if we are not competitive?
Not yet. There's still probably a shitload of alumni $$$ tied to it. Give it another decade for our equivalents of Monty Burns to croak. By then youth football will probably be dead anyway because of the adverse health effects. Do the Ivies have boxing teams anymore?
I agree that football as we know it may be endangered as more and more data on the health effects comes in. Unfortunately, the brain health issue is also seriously affecting ice hockey. Perhaps ice hockey could more easily make adjustments without fundamentally altering the nature of the sport.
BTW, My 2 cents: Losing itself is no reason tothorw in the towel. Econmics and other priorities maybe. But football is iconic.
The Freshman beanie used to be iconic as well.
Quote from: TowerroadShould we just throw in the towel on Football? 9 winning seasons since 1980. Columbia does not play hockey or lax, Penn does not play hockey. Is football really worth the effort if we are not competitive?
Cornell women's hockey winning seasons 1980-2009 (8):
80
81
86
89
90
91
96
98
I don't recall anyone clamoring to shut it down in 2005.
Quote from: KeithKQuote from: Roy 82BTW, My 2 cents: Losing itself is no reason tothorw in the towel. Econmics and other priorities maybe. But football is iconic.
Especially so for college athletics, at least at schools that aren't masquerading as semi-pro teams. If the program is graduating its student athletes and there aren't significant off field issues then I see no reason that the win-loss record should be important in the fate of the program.
+1. This is the only point that really matters to a program like Cornell's.
And I have zero interest in Ivy League football. I just happen to think that if the alumni and administration want to keep it going, and the students still have interest in playing, then they should play. If you or I don't want to pay it any attention, that's fine too.
Quote from: Chris '03Quote from: TowerroadShould we just throw in the towel on Football? 9 winning seasons since 1980. Columbia does not play hockey or lax, Penn does not play hockey. Is football really worth the effort if we are not competitive?
Cornell women's hockey winning seasons 1980-2009 (8):
80
81
86
89
90
91
96
98
I don't recall anyone clamoring to shut it down in 2005.
Title IX considerations would have weighed heavily. For another, football has not been to a Bowl (Frozen 4 equivalent) since the 30's.
I am not necessarily clamoring to shut football down. I go to the game every other year when Cornell is in Cambridge and enjoy myself throughly. The Band always wins. But I think this is a question that should be asked.
After all, Cornell decided that it was not interested in Nursing or Nuclear Reactors. Times change.
The Ivies started as a football conference and I think the Ivy Agreement specifically states that there must be round robin competition in football (and in as many other sports as possible). Dropping football probably means dropping out of the Ivy League, which is not going to happen.
I wonder what Ed Marino has to say about this.
Quote from: dbilmesI wonder what Ed Marino has to say about this.
Something about the spellcheck button perhaps, or not confusing him with the Tom and Bill Marinaro lacrosse family?
Quote from: mountainredThe Ivies started as a football conference and I think the Ivy Agreement specifically states that there must be round robin competition in football (and in as many other sports as possible). Dropping football probably means dropping out of the Ivy League, which is not going to happen.
I think it's pretty unlikely that we would be kicked out of the Ivies if we dropped football. Even if the agreement says something to that effect agreements can be changed.
Quote from: dbilmesI wonder what Ed Marino has to say about this.
I am not sure why Ed Marinaro's opinion should carry any more weight than anyone elses (his $ are a different matter). I am certain that most if not all the current and former players would object to this course of action but that does not necessarily mean it is a bad idea.
Financial considerations are important, I don't know if football is a money maker or not. What is clear is that we are not very good at it.
Yes Caltech does not have football but the University of Chicago and MIT both have varsity football.
MIT at least had about 50 years off.
Also: let's hear it for CalTech baseball! (http://thequad.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/02/02/caltech-ends-losing-streak-at-228/?_php=true&_type=blogs&_r=0)
Quote from: TowerroadQuote from: dbilmesI wonder what Ed Marino has to say about this.
I am not sure why Ed Marinaro's opinion should carry any more weight than anyone elses (his $ are a different matter). I am certain that most if not all the current and former players would object to this course of action but that does not necessarily mean it is a bad idea.
Financial considerations are important, I don't know if football is a money maker or not. What is clear is that we are not very good at it.
Ok you win, it looks like a conference we could be competitive in
http://www.newenglandfootballconference.com/seasons/index
Quote from: TowerroadOk you win, it looks like a conference we could be competitive in
http://www.newenglandfootballconference.com/seasons/index
They
are in the ECAC...
Quote from: TrotskyMIT at least had about 50 years off.
Also: let's hear it for CalTech baseball! (http://thequad.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/02/02/caltech-ends-losing-streak-at-228/?_php=true&_type=blogs&_r=0)
A colleague I knew from grad school was a catcher in his undergrad days for CalTech. He threw a party after that win in 2003, as it broke a similarly long losing streak.
Also, due to a self-reported violation, they had to "vacate" the losing streak. Smart, I guess? From http://espn.go.com/los-angeles/story/_/id/8930863/caltech-baseball-victory-one-record-book
QuoteCaltech, like USC, Ohio State and Penn State, is on NCAA probation, believe it or not. The Beavers self-reported after violating one of the NCAA's myriad rules, this one stating that student-athletes have to take a full course load to be eligible.
Caltech students aren't officially taking a full course load until the end of the third week of every term. They are allowed to shop the tough classes before finalizing their curricula and many student-athletes chose academic prudence over rigid adherence to NCAA rules.
The baseball team had to vacate its 0-112 record during the period it "cheated."
Cornell trails Brown 14-2 with 2:30 left in the half.
I have watched almost 35 years of mostly bad Cornell football. This is the most inept offensive football I've seen in all those years. The offensive line is hopeless
Don't understand why Cornell isn't competitive in football. Wasn't too long ago when we had reasonable success. Under Jim Hofher, from 1990-97, Cornell went 33-23 in Ivies, never finishing below 4th.
Don't understand why Cornell isn't competitive in football. Wasn't too long ago we had reasonable success. Under Jim Hofher, from 1990-97, Cornell went 33-23 in the Ivies, never finishing below 4th.
Quote from: CASDon't understand why Cornell isn't competitive in football. Wasn't too long ago we had reasonable success. Under Jim Hofher, from 1990-97, Cornell went 33-23 in the Ivies, never finishing below 4th.
Lack of recruiting and coaching. With the former being the greatest issue the last 15 years. Remember the ill-fated Tim Pendergast era.
Are we at the point of inducting a second-place team into the athletics department hall of fame?
http://frontrow.espn.go.com/2014/10/marcellus-wileys-96-lions-inducted-into-columbia-university-athletics-hof/
Might as well throw the towel in on the men's basketball team as well. Outside of the one Steve Donahue run, winning seasons are few and far between.