Just saw that the season started with a loss at Syracuse, 82-60. Cornell had a 14 point lead in the first half.
http://scores.espn.go.com/ncb/recap?gameId=400502660
And a 19 point lead in the second half to Bingo..before losing by 10.
It's a very young team. The youngersters have some promise, but this is going to be a long a season.
Quote from: mountainredAnd a 19 point lead in the second half to Bingo..before losing by 10.
It's a very young team. The youngersters have some promise, but this is going to be a long a season.
It was a long night in Louisville with Cornell losing 99-54 to the Cardinals. Just saw the lowlights (well, actually "keithlights") on ESPN2. Ouch.
Quote from: RitaQuote from: mountainredAnd a 19 point lead in the second half to Bingo..before losing by 10.
It's a very young team. The youngersters have some promise, but this is going to be a long a season.
It was a long night in Louisville with Cornell losing 99-54 to the Cardinals. Just saw the lowlights (well, actually "keithlights") on ESPN2. Ouch.
They didn't score 100. They didn't double us up. Huge win for Cornell. Even if Louisville ran out their debate team for the second half.
Quote from: ugarteQuote from: RitaQuote from: mountainredAnd a 19 point lead in the second half to Bingo..before losing by 10.
It's a very young team. The youngersters have some promise, but this is going to be a long a season.
It was a long night in Louisville with Cornell losing 99-54 to the Cardinals. Just saw the lowlights (well, actually "keithlights") on ESPN2. Ouch.
They didn't score 100. They didn't double us up. Huge win for Cornell. Even if Louisville ran out their debate team for the second half.
Playing top teams is how Cornell got ready for its run through the NCAAs in 2010.
Quote from: ugarteQuote from: RitaQuote from: mountainredAnd a 19 point lead in the second half to Bingo..before losing by 10.
It's a very young team. The youngersters have some promise, but this is going to be a long a season.
It was a long night in Louisville with Cornell losing 99-54 to the Cardinals. Just saw the lowlights (well, actually "keithlights") on ESPN2. Ouch.
They didn't score 100. They didn't double us up. Huge win for Cornell. Even if Louisville ran out their debate team for the second half.
Don't undersell Louisville debate...I learned cross-x at their summer debate camp in '87 and became one of the top debaters in my state. :)
Quote from: billhowardQuote from: ugarteQuote from: RitaQuote from: mountainredAnd a 19 point lead in the second half to Bingo..before losing by 10.
It's a very young team. The youngersters have some promise, but this is going to be a long a season.
It was a long night in Louisville with Cornell losing 99-54 to the Cardinals. Just saw the lowlights (well, actually "keithlights") on ESPN2. Ouch.
They didn't score 100. They didn't double us up. Huge win for Cornell. Even if Louisville ran out their debate team for the second half.
Playing top teams is how Cornell got ready for its run through the NCAAs in 2010.
The only way this team is going to the NCAAs is with a ticket. Next three games are, however, winnable (@ 'gate, v. Siena and Radford).
Quote from: RobbQuote from: ugarteQuote from: RitaQuote from: mountainredAnd a 19 point lead in the second half to Bingo..before losing by 10.
It's a very young team. The youngersters have some promise, but this is going to be a long a season.
It was a long night in Louisville with Cornell losing 99-54 to the Cardinals. Just saw the lowlights (well, actually "keithlights") on ESPN2. Ouch.
They didn't score 100. They didn't double us up. Huge win for Cornell. Even if Louisville ran out their debate team for the second half.
Don't undersell Louisville debate...I learned cross-x at their summer debate camp in '87 and became one of the top debaters in my state. :)
But could you defend the perimeter?
This may be an even longer season than expected: Colgate 81 Cornell 58. And 'gate called off the dogs with 5 minutes to go; they could have won by 30+.
Quote from: mountainredThis may be an even longer season than expected: Colgate 81 Cornell 58. And 'gate called off the dogs with 5 minutes to go; they could have won by 30+.
While I think it's clear the Freshman are Courtney's best recruiting class, in my view the team will need to show progress -- forget wins and losses -- to be deserving of returning next year. His ability to handle X's and O's is very much in doubt.
Quote from: scoop85Quote from: mountainredThis may be an even longer season than expected: Colgate 81 Cornell 58. And 'gate called off the dogs with 5 minutes to go; they could have won by 30+.
While I think it's clear the Freshman are Courtney's best recruiting class, in my view the team will need to show progress -- forget wins and losses -- to be deserving of returning next year. His ability to handle X's and O's is very much in doubt.
It probably is his best class, though Hatter, Smith, David O. and company haven't shown much the last two games. The team still looks like a bunch of guys playing a rec league game. Not that I have a say it, but while I'm willing to cut BC a little slack because he lost his best player in Shonn Miller, blow out losses to the Colgates of the world just won't get it done.
Quote from: mountainredQuote from: scoop85Quote from: mountainredThis may be an even longer season than expected: Colgate 81 Cornell 58. And 'gate called off the dogs with 5 minutes to go; they could have won by 30+.
While I think it's clear the Freshman are Courtney's best recruiting class, in my view the team will need to show progress -- forget wins and losses -- to be deserving of returning next year. His ability to handle X's and O's is very much in doubt.
It probably is his best class, though Hatter, Smith, David O. and company haven't shown much the last two games. The team still looks like a bunch of guys playing a rec league game. Not that I have a say it, but while I'm willing to cut BC a little slack because he lost his best player in Shonn Miller, blow out losses to the Colgates of the world just won't get it done.
Those three guys got a combined 30 minutes at Colgate. Blow out losses might be the time to get your young guys more minutes.
Worse defeat to Colgate in 61 years. The Binghamton debacle. Courtney has his work cut out for him.
Quote from: billhowardQuote from: ugarteQuote from: RitaQuote from: mountainredAnd a 19 point lead in the second half to Bingo..before losing by 10.
It's a very young team. The youngersters have some promise, but this is going to be a long a season.
It was a long night in Louisville with Cornell losing 99-54 to the Cardinals. Just saw the lowlights (well, actually "keithlights") on ESPN2. Ouch.
They didn't score 100. They didn't double us up. Huge win for Cornell. Even if Louisville ran out their debate team for the second half.
Playing top teams is how Cornell got ready for its run through the NCAAs in 2010.
Speaking of Steve Donahue, I wonder how much more time he gets at BC. 1-
34 so far this year.
Quote from: nyc94Quote from: billhowardQuote from: ugarteQuote from: RitaQuote from: mountainredAnd a 19 point lead in the second half to Bingo..before losing by 10.
It's a very young team. The youngersters have some promise, but this is going to be a long a season.
It was a long night in Louisville with Cornell losing 99-54 to the Cardinals. Just saw the lowlights (well, actually "keithlights") on ESPN2. Ouch.
They didn't score 100. They didn't double us up. Huge win for Cornell. Even if Louisville ran out their debate team for the second half.
Playing top teams is how Cornell got ready for its run through the NCAAs in 2010.
Speaking of Steve Donahue, I wonder how much more time he gets at BC. 1-3 so far this year.
Well, given the way our season's going, I'm sure we'd consider taking him back
Louisville may not have scored a 100, but Notre Dame did. The 101-67 loss drops Cornell to 0-9 for the first time in over a century (the 04-05 team started 0-10.) Curiously, that team is listed as having no coach, so the teams have that in common too.
Quote from: mountainredLouisville may not have scored a 100, but Notre Dame did. The 101-67 loss drops Cornell to 0-9 for the first time in over a century (the 04-05 team started 0-10.) Curiously, that team is listed as having no coach, so the teams have that in common too.
I won't be surprised to see a coaching change after this season.
Quote from: Ken711I won't be surprised to see a coaching change after this season.
Why wait?
Quote from: billhowardQuote from: mountainredLouisville may not have scored a 100, but Notre Dame did. The 101-67 loss drops Cornell to 0-9 for the first time in over a century (the 04-05 team started 0-10.) Curiously, that team is listed as having no coach, so the teams have that in common too.
Not even a chuckle?
Quote from: mountainredQuote from: billhowardQuote from: mountainredLouisville may not have scored a 100, but Notre Dame did. The 101-67 loss drops Cornell to 0-9 for the first time in over a century (the 04-05 team started 0-10.) Curiously, that team is listed as having no coach, so the teams have that in common too.
Not even a chuckle?
ok -- I found that rather amusing
Quote from: Jim HylaQuote from: Ken711I won't be surprised to see a coaching change after this season.
Why wait?
Change coaches during a season rarely happens.
Quote from: Ken711Quote from: Jim HylaQuote from: Ken711I won't be surprised to see a coaching change after this season.
Why wait?
Change coaches during a season rarely happens.
But, if you're going to change, it can make sense. And just because it rarely happens, isn't a reason for it not to happen.
Quote from: Jim HylaQuote from: Ken711Quote from: Jim HylaQuote from: Ken711I won't be surprised to see a coaching change after this season.
Why wait?
Change coaches during a season rarely happens.
But, if you're going to change, it can make sense. And just because it rarely happens, isn't a reason for it not to happen.
The practical reason is that your search is limited, as it will be very hard to pry away a quality candidate in mid-season. Unless the plan is to promote from within, you still have to wait to the end of the season to find the full-time replacement.
Quote from: mountainredQuote from: Jim HylaQuote from: Ken711Quote from: Jim HylaQuote from: Ken711I won't be surprised to see a coaching change after this season.
Why wait?
Change coaches during a season rarely happens.
But, if you're going to change, it can make sense. And just because it rarely happens, isn't a reason for it not to happen.
The practical reason is that your search is limited, as it will be very hard to pry away a quality candidate in mid-season. Unless the plan is to promote from within, you still have to wait to the end of the season to find the full-time replacement.
Exactly. Un;ess you are planning to hire the assistant (which I wouldn't expect under the circumstances) you're going to end up with a lame duck interim coach for the rest of the season anyway. It just doesn't seem worth it barring some sort of actionable cause.
The collapse of the basketball program continues. The Big Red loses to St. Francis 72-62. The team now has two double digit losses at home to bottom 20 teams (Bingo and StF). I don't see any way the administration can bring BC back for another season.
Quote from: mountainredThe collapse of the basketball program continues. The Big Red loses to St. Francis 72-62. The team now has two double digit losses at home to bottom 20 teams (Bingo and StF). I don't see any way the administration can bring BC back for another season.
Agreed. A change is needed for next season.
Sad situation. Have to feel sorry for the players and their families.
Based on the tables I saw in the tribune we are the only winless team left in D1. Ugh.
Quote from: JayFisher90Based on the tables I saw in the tribune we are the only winless team left in D1. Ugh.
#1 draft pick though, right?
Quote from: TrotskyQuote from: JayFisher90Based on the tables I saw in the tribune we are the only winless team left in D1. Ugh.
#1 draft pick though, right?
"Conscript"
Probably less funny if you're the player, his girlfriend, his parents, the coach, or the concession stand workers. NJIT ("Newark's MIT") lost 51 straight.
Quote from: billhowardQuote from: TrotskyQuote from: JayFisher90Based on the tables I saw in the tribune we are the only winless team left in D1. Ugh.
#1 draft pick though, right?
"Conscript"
Probably less funny if you're the player, his girlfriend, his parents, the coach, or the concession stand workers. NJIT ("Newark's MIT") lost 51 straight.
The string probably won't last past Oberlin on January 11th, as the Yeoman are pretty bad even for a D3 squad.
Interesting would Cornell welcome back Donahue?
Quote from: When he was hired away from Cornell to replace Al Skinner, Donahue was lauded by many as an ideal fit in Chestnut Hill. Donahue had been the architect of Cornell's brilliant run at the end of the last decade. In his last three years there, the Big Red went 72-21 (38-4 Ivy League). Donahue won three straight Ivy titles after decades of Penn-Princeton dominance in the Ancient Eight.
BC wasn't the only school interested in Donahue when it hired him. Given BC's high academic standards, hiring an Ivy coach seemed like a pretty good move.
But after a solid first season in 2010-11 that finished with a 21-13 record and trip to the NIT, the Eagles have fallen apart. Since then, BC is 29-47 (11-24 ACC).
This year was supposed to be a turnaround year with potential for an NCAA tournament bid. Instead, BC is 4-8 with losses to Toledo and Auburn, and appears to be headed for another long year.
Ivy coaches have had mixed results in bigger jobs. Georgetown's John Thompson III and Temple's Fran Dunphy have thrived after success at Princeton and Penn, respectively, but both coaches changed their staffs and recruiting styles. Donahue took his Cornell staff with him and hasn't been able to recruiting an ACC caliber roster.
While Boston College has struggled with Donahue, the Big Red have fared even worse without him. In the past three years, Cornell is 35-63. The Big Red (0-11) are the only team in Division I without a win this season (several schools only have wins over non-Division I teams).
If BC is willing to pull the trigger to start over, it's fair to wonder if Cornell and Donahue might reunite.http://www.gazettenet.com/home/9932898-95/matt-vautour-struggles-at-boston-college-cornell-tied-to-steve-donahue
I can't imagine that leaving to take an ACC job would have been burned any bridges, so who knows? I wouldn't be surprised if Penn is looking for a new coach this off-season as well and the Quakers made a run at Steve once before.....
Quote from: mountainredI can't imagine that leaving to take an ACC job would have been burned any bridges, so who knows? I wouldn't be surprised if Penn is looking for a new coach this off-season as well and the Quakers made a run at Steve once before.....
That's true, he did leave for a higher D1 position so maybe Cornell would seek his services again if they let Courtney go and Donahue is released by BC.
Quote from: Ken711Quote from: mountainredI can't imagine that leaving to take an ACC job would have been burned any bridges, so who knows? I wouldn't be surprised if Penn is looking for a new coach this off-season as well and the Quakers made a run at Steve once before.....
That's true, he did leave for a higher D1 position so maybe Cornell would seek his services again if they let Courtney go and Donahue is released by BC.
Imagine if we had welcomed back Ned Harkness after his ill-fated run to a job (Detroit Red Wings) that he was not suited for. Donahue has Philadelphia roots so a Penn or maybe Princeton job would not be out of the question. Maybe another D1 major sees the problem not as Steve Donahue but a poor fit between Donahue and BC. Villanova might be the best Philadelphia fit for Donahue. In pro football, a dismissed coach sometimes reloads by spending a year or two as assistant coach. Back to Cornell? That'd be nice. But how likely?
Quote from: billhowardVillanova might be the best Philadelphia fit for Donahue.
Why is Villanova a good spot for Donahue? This actually boggles my mind. Why would Villanova want to have anything to do with a guy who got dumped by BC for failing to recruit competitively? What makes Villanova - a consistently competitive, currently top 10 - a better fit than BC from Donahue's perspective?
Donahue grew up, went to college, worked early on in the greater Philadelphia area. At Villanova he'd have more talent to work with. That's why Donahue would want to be there; it's something he can dream about in the shower if nowhere else.
Quote from: billhowardDonahue grew up, went to college, worked early on in the greater Philadelphia area. At Villanova he'd have more talent to work with. That's why Donahue would want to be there; it's something he can dream about in the shower if nowhere else.
You answered the easy part of the question but not the hard part.
The only thing that gets him the Nova job is going there as an assistant, the HC vacating the position and he gets promoted. I don't see Wright going anywhere soon, though it seems he would love the Syracuse job.
I'm surprised no one posted this yesterday, but our men's basketball team was the subject of a feature piece (http://www.nytimes.com/2013/12/27/sports/ncaabasketball/four-years-after-its-wild-ride-cornell-turns-back-into-a-pumpkin.html?_r=0) in The NY Times.
Quote from: dbilmesI'm surprised no one posted this yesterday, but our men's basketball team was the subject of a feature piece (http://www.nytimes.com/2013/12/27/sports/ncaabasketball/four-years-after-its-wild-ride-cornell-turns-back-into-a-pumpkin.html?_r=0) in The NY Times.
Obituaries?
Quote from: TrotskyQuote from: dbilmesI'm surprised no one posted this yesterday, but our men's basketball team was the subject of a feature piece (http://www.nytimes.com/2013/12/27/sports/ncaabasketball/four-years-after-its-wild-ride-cornell-turns-back-into-a-pumpkin.html?_r=0) in The NY Times.
Obituaries?
Nah, missing persons.
67-59 St. Peters; 0-12
Quote from: Al DeFlorio67-59 St. Peters; 0-12
18 in a row...ouch.
0-12 team gets national exposure (well, sort of) against St. Bonaventure Saturday at 2pm on NBCSports.::yark::
Yep. We'll certainly get exposed. Happy New Year Al.
Quote from: TimVYep. We'll certainly get exposed. Happy New Year Al.
The secret's already out. We suck!
The Courtney era may be coming to a an end.
Quote from: Ken711The Courtney era may be coming to a an end.
Let's just hope the press release is appropriately written to satisfy the masses here.
At some point, our discussion of basketball deserves a football flag for piling on. The players are still representing Cornell and they're probably trying as hard as the players from Harvard and Princeton, or as our hockey team. Just without the wins to show for their work.
Quote from: Chris '03Quote from: Ken711The Courtney era may be coming to a an end.
Let's just hope the press release is appropriately written to satisfy the masses here.
If the Bill Courtney era comes to an end after this season, there won't be any questions about the reason.
Good thing Arizona is not on the basketball schedule. Wazzu and their ineptitude (http://scores.espn.go.com/ncb/recap?gameId=400506075) were the butt of the late night sportscenter.
I didn't see any piling on the players, did you?
On NBC Sports TV (Sat 1/4 2 pm). The pre-game was about 90 seconds. Announcers quoted STB coach Mark Schmidt saying, "Cornell is the best 0-12 team in the country."
[edit add]: 38-28 at the half, so Cornell is keeping it respectable.
[edit add]: 81-57 final as both teams empty the bench. The spread going in was 20 and that was about where it ended. Too bad.
Quote from: billhowardAnnouncers quoted STB coach Mark Schmidt saying, "Cornell is the best 0-12 team in the country."
Are there any others?::whistle::
Quote from: Al DeFlorioQuote from: billhowardAnnouncers quoted STB coach Mark Schmidt saying, "Cornell is the best 0-12 team in the country."
Are there any others?::whistle::
Trying to be charitable here, Al. The announcer added, "Of course, he [Schmidt] didn't mention Cornell was the only 0-12 team in the country."
Courtney has to go. He can recruit but he doesnt know how to coach. There is talent on this team but they havent improved at all in his 4 years. They dont play like a team. They stand around the outside of the 3pt line passing the ball around and then as the shot clock runs down a player is left to make a play on his own.
This winless start may end up as a good outcome because they were never going to be competitive in the league with him and another middling just below .500 year the school may have given another year due to Miller's injury. Now they have to fire him and they can start next year fresh with a new coach and Miller back if he doesnt transfer.
Wth another ugly loss to Harvard, I would be surprised if Donahue wasnt fired this year. He would be a great hire but I would be surprised if he came back. The program is almost back to where it was when he started. There are plenty of mid major schools in better conferences that would want to hire him. He built Cornell from nothing into a 3 time Ivy champ and Sweet 16 winner. It didnt work out at BC because he was never a good recruiter which is more important in the big conferences
Quote from: phillysportsfanCourtney has to go. He can recruit but he doesnt know how to coach. There is talent on this team but they havent improved at all in his 4 years. They dont play like a team. They stand around the outside of the 3pt line passing the ball around and then as the shot clock runs down a player is left to make a play on his own.
This winless start may end up as a good outcome because they were never going to be competitive in the league with him and another middling just below .500 year the school may have given another year due to Miller's injury. Now they have to fire him and they can start next year fresh with a new coach and Miller back if he doesnt transfer.
Wth another ugly loss to Harvard, I would be surprised if Donahue wasnt fired this year. He would be a great hire but I would be surprised if he came back. The program is almost back to where it was when he started. There are plenty of mid major schools in better conferences that would want to hire him. He built Cornell from nothing into a 3 time Ivy champ and Sweet 16 winner. It didnt work out at BC because he was never a good recruiter which is more important in the big conferences
That pretty much sums it up.
Quote from: phillysportsfanCourtney has to go. He can recruit but he doesnt know how to coach. There is talent on this team but they havent improved at all in his 4 years. They dont play like a team. They stand around the outside of the 3pt line passing the ball around and then as the shot clock runs down a player is left to make a play on his own.
This winless start may end up as a good outcome because they were never going to be competitive in the league with him and another middling just below .500 year the school may have given another year due to Miller's injury. Now they have to fire him and they can start next year fresh with a new coach and Miller back if he doesnt transfer.
Wth another ugly loss to Harvard, I would be surprised if Donahue wasnt fired this year. He would be a great hire but I would be surprised if he came back. The program is almost back to where it was when he started. There are plenty of mid major schools in better conferences that would want to hire him. He built Cornell from nothing into a 3 time Ivy champ and Sweet 16 winner. It didnt work out at BC because he was never a good recruiter which is more important in the big conferences
Second acts don't typically go well and I don't see this set of players performing well in a Steve Donahue system. I will always remember Coach D and that 2010 fondly, but I think we need a new direction.
Weird stat: Oberlin is on a three game road trek. We are the second winless team they will play during that set of games as they handled Cairn on Saturday. How often does that happen in January?
Quote from: mountainredSecond acts don't typically go well and I don't see this set of players performing well in a Steve Donahue system. I will always remember Coach D and that 2010 fondly, but I think we need a new direction.
Weird stat: Oberlin is on a three game road trek. We are the second winless team they will play during that set of games as they handled Cairn on Saturday. How often does that happen in January?
Where's Elias sports bureau when you need them?
I just hope they make a change after this season, another year of this isn't tolerable
Quote from: phillysportsfanI just hope they make a change after this season, another year of this isn't tolerable
I totally agree, Philly. I know losing Miller hurts, but the lack of progress over the season is discouraging. It's hard to remember but these guys were fiesty against Syracuse and should have beaten both Loyola and Binghamton, but let them off the hook. That happens with teams replacing a bunch of minutes, but I didn't think it would be highwater mark of the season.
Streak ends. Cornell beats D3 Oberlin 77-55.
Quote from: George64Streak ends. Cornell beats D3 Oberlin 77-55.
The solution is clear.
Ned Tomic was the big dog in the win: 20 points, 9 rebounds, 3 blocks. He's from NE Ohio and probably wanted no part of hearing about an Oberlin win.
I'm going to buy tickets for the basketball game at Columbia, but, unlike at Newman, the Columbia arena appears to be assigned seating rather than general admission. Does anyone know which section at Levian is usually the Cornell/visitor's section? Am I correct in assuming that section D which the seating chart says is directly behind the visitor's bench is the visitor's section? Thanks
Quote from: George64Streak ends. Cornell beats D3 Oberlin 77-55.
No D3 shouldnt count
Quote from: phillysportsfanQuote from: George64Streak ends. Cornell beats D3 Oberlin 77-55.
No D3 shouldnt count
(http://filipspagnoli.files.wordpress.com/2008/12/128727947907905474.png)
A new losing streak begins tonight, 2 Ivy wins would be an accomplishment at this point
Quote from: phillysportsfanA new losing streak begins tonight, 2 Ivy wins would be an accomplishment at this point
An accomplishment or a miracle.
Quote from: phillysportsfanA new losing streak begins tonight, 2 Ivy wins would be an accomplishment at this point
To the team's credit they didn't quit. Columbia was up 18 with the ball with 5:30 to go and the Big Red started a run that cut it to 7 with Scelfo on the line for 3 at :50. Dom then missed two of three and Cornell didn't score again in the 71-61 loss. Of course, there is the problem of falling behind by that many, but I'm looking for a bright spot.
We just play so small; guards played 160 minutes tonight. That's basically running a four guard offense for the entire game. If we pressed all the time that might make sense, but we don't.
On the bright side they did play well in the 1st half, they werent chucking 3's like they usually do. They were really attacking the basket and the defense was good. 2nd half everything fell apart. Courtney has to go. If they finish the year with 1 win, I dont see how he comes back
Quote from: phillysportsfanOn the bright side they did play well in the 1st half, they werent chucking 3's like they usually do. They were really attacking the basket and the defense was good. 2nd half everything fell apart. Courtney has to go. If they finish the year with 1 win, I dont see how he comes back
It was nice to see them not chucking 3's. Under BC, more than 40% of our shots have been 3's. While Steve's offense was allegedly three-ball happy, none of his teams took that many. The only team that was close -- the 2010 team -- was literally the best in the nation at shooting the 3.
I have to figure this is BC's last season. I wonder how many Ivy wins it would take to convince Andy that he deserves one last season with Shonn back.
Meanwhile Zach Spiker has Army at 5-1 in the Patriot league, 9-8 overall. Last year they finished 16-15 which was their first winning season in 28 years. Its a shame he left right before the Sweet 16 year, he would have been the logical replacement for Donahue
Quote from: phillysportsfanMeanwhile Zach Spiker has Army at 5-1 in the Patriot league, 9-8 overall. Last year they finished 16-15 which was their first winning season in 28 years. Its a shame he left right before the Sweet 16 year, he would have been the logical replacement for Donahue
Yep.
http://cornellbball.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=general&thread=828&page=2#20767
Basketball blog guy was saying Courtney has a 5 year contract so probably unlikely Courtney gets fired this year
Cornell now 1-15 after a 74-58 home loss to Columbia.
Quote from: Ken711Cornell now 1-15 after a 74-58 home loss to Columbia.
It was 51-49 Big Red with 10 minutes to go when the Lions threw it into another gear.
Brown 78 Cornell 66. The Big Red killed a much taller Brown team on the offensive glass, but it wasn't enough.
Quote from: mountainredBrown 78 Cornell 66. The Big Red killed a much taller Brown team on the offensive glass, but it wasn't enough.
Shooting 3 for 22 beyond the arc doesn't help.
Can they beat Yale to avoid 1-17?
Quote from: Ken711Can they beat Yale to avoid 1-17?
Unlikely -- Ken Pomeroy gives the Big Red a 6% chance at winning. Yale draws a ton of fouls and Cornell sends team to the line like it's our job. But after last night we are probably "due" for a good a night from behind the arc.
Quote from: mountainredQuote from: Ken711Can they beat Yale to avoid 1-17?
Unlikely -- Ken Pomeroy gives the Big Red a 6% chance at winning. Yale draws a ton of fouls and Cornell sends team to the line like it's our job. But after last night we are probably "due" for a good a night from behind the arc.
Close game but unfortunately 1-17.
In an interesting bit of compare and contrast: Dartmouth lost its best player (and one of the league's best) for the season a few weeks back. This weekend they swept Penn and Princeton.
Quote from: mountainredIn an interesting bit of compare and contrast: Dartmouth lost its best player (and one of the league's best) for the season a few weeks back. This weekend they swept Penn and Princeton.
You're not implying anything about the coaching, are you ;-)
Quote from: mountainredIn an interesting bit of compare and contrast: Dartmouth lost its best player (and one of the league's best) for the season a few weeks back. This weekend they swept Penn and Princeton.
Cut it to 3 late in the game, succumbed 61-57. Dartmouth comparison is interesting but Cornell has more than one player.
Cornell has now lost 23 consecutive games against Division 1 competition.
last D1 win was 2/16/2013 almost a year ago, still crazy that we had a half time lead over #1 Cuse
can't deal with Courtney's nonsense for another year
Quote from: phillysportsfanlast D1 win was 2/16/2013 almost a year ago, still crazy that we had a half time lead over #1 Cuse
can't deal with Courtney's nonsense for another year
But according to BRF, it's a certainty he's coming back. Hard to believe he could stick around after this train-wreck of a season, but we'll have to see.
Quote from: scoop85Quote from: phillysportsfanlast D1 win was 2/16/2013 almost a year ago, still crazy that we had a half time lead over #1 Cuse
can't deal with Courtney's nonsense for another year
But according to BRF, it's a certainty he's coming back. Hard to believe he could stick around after this train-wreck of a season, but we'll have to see.
I generally agree with honoring contracts, if for no other reason than paying someone not to coach is a lousy use of money. 23 straight D1 losses trumps that in my mind, but I'm not the one making out the budget.
Nonetheless, I'm going to predict D1 win #1 will come on Friday. Hard as it may be to believe, but Jerome Allen may be an even worse bball coach than Courtney. Penn is incredibly inefficient on offense, so they may not torch our D. They like to run up and down the court, which plays into the one thing we do well: have our guards run the floor in transition. And while the Big Red is still playing hard for Courtney (they had chances to give up in their last four games but fought back), Penn looks like they are just going through the motions. Plus, we've won 4 of the last 6 in the Palestra (that's just fun to type).
Quote from: mountainredI generally agree with honoring contracts, if for no other reason than paying someone not to coach is a lousy use of money. 23 straight D1 losses trumps that in my mind, but I'm not the one making out the budget.
Agree with your statement on trump, but your first sentiment really kills recruiting.
Hard to believe it's but 4 years since Cornell's Sweet 16 finish under Coach Donahue. Incredible how far the program has fallen in 4 years.
Quote from: CASHard to believe it's but 4 years since Cornell's Sweet 16 finish under Coach Donahue. Incredible how far the program has fallen in 4 years.
This could be some kind of record. Does anyone know?
Quote from: TimVQuote from: mountainredI generally agree with honoring contracts, if for no other reason than paying someone not to coach is a lousy use of money. 23 straight D1 losses trumps that in my mind, but I'm not the one making out the budget.
Agree with your statement on trump, but your first sentiment really kills recruiting.
Has anyone (covering Cornell basketball) talked to the players, ask what they think privately? Maybe they like Courtney and they're giving it their best shot.
Quote from: billhowardQuote from: TimVQuote from: mountainredI generally agree with honoring contracts, if for no other reason than paying someone not to coach is a lousy use of money. 23 straight D1 losses trumps that in my mind, but I'm not the one making out the budget.
Agree with your statement on trump, but your first sentiment really kills recruiting.
Has anyone (covering Cornell basketball) talked to the players, ask what they think privately? Maybe they like Courtney and they're giving it their best shot.
But liking a coach and giving it your best shot is not going to make up for a coach who is a bad teacher, does not organize a team's defense, does not implement a varied offense, or does not design a game plan that can beat the opponent of the evening. I'm not saying Courtney fits any of these descriptions, I'm not close enough to the action to know. I am saying that even if the players like him and are working as hard as they can, this will not get the team very far unless Courtney also coaches well.
Quote from: SwampyQuote from: billhowardQuote from: TimVQuote from: mountainredI generally agree with honoring contracts, if for no other reason than paying someone not to coach is a lousy use of money. 23 straight D1 losses trumps that in my mind, but I'm not the one making out the budget.
Agree with your statement on trump, but your first sentiment really kills recruiting.
Has anyone (covering Cornell basketball) talked to the players, ask what they think privately? Maybe they like Courtney and they're giving it their best shot.
But liking a coach and giving it your best shot is not going to make up for a coach who is a bad teacher, does not organize a team's defense, does not implement a varied offense, or does not design a game plan that can beat the opponent of the evening. I'm not saying Courtney fits any of these descriptions, I'm not close enough to the action to know. I am saying that even if the players like him and are working as hard as they can, this will not get the team very far unless Courtney also coaches well.
I'm willing to assume they are "giving it their best shot;" I've watched virtually every game and have generally thought they were playing with maximum effort. Bill Courtney is certainly trying his best to win. By virtually every account Bill is a geninuely likable person who everyone wants to see succeed.
But that can't be the standard, can it? This is year four of the Courtney experience and the Big Red is 1-17 and rated the 342nd best team in the nation (out of 351) by Ken Pomeroy. Losing Shonn hurt, but there should be enough talent on the roster to avoid being one of then ten worst teams in the nation. Either Bill did not recruit enough legit D1 players (however much they hustle), or he is not capable of getting them to reach their potential. Maybe some combination of both. It's just clear this isn't working and after four years is extremely unlikely to work.
Quote from: mountainredQuote from: scoop85Quote from: phillysportsfanlast D1 win was 2/16/2013 almost a year ago, still crazy that we had a half time lead over #1 Cuse
can't deal with Courtney's nonsense for another year
But according to BRF, it's a certainty he's coming back. Hard to believe he could stick around after this train-wreck of a season, but we'll have to see.
I generally agree with honoring contracts, if for no other reason than paying someone not to coach is a lousy use of money. 23 straight D1 losses trumps that in my mind, but I'm not the one making out the budget.
Nonetheless, I'm going to predict D1 win #1 will come on Friday. Hard as it may be to believe, but Jerome Allen may be an even worse bball coach than Courtney. Penn is incredibly inefficient on offense, so they may not torch our D.
Well, it sounded good. Penn wins 90-83 as a the Big Red can't overcome a terrible first half. Next is a Princeton team that is 0-4 in the league.
1-18 soon to be 1-19 after the Princeton game.
Quote from: Ken7111-18 soon to be 1-19 after the Princeton game.
The Ivies have been a nightmare for Princeton, but I agree.
Still, the team has been hanging around in every Ivy game. I think they've "covered" Ken Pomeroy's expected margin in every league game. With six of the last eight at home, they'll break through against someone.
1-19 after 69-48 loss to Princeton.
When is the last time an Ivy team went winless in league play?
Edit: Columbia 2002-2003. Dartmouth in 1964 and 1966 as well.
Quote from: nyc94When is the last time an Ivy team went winless in league play?
Edit: Columbia 2002-2003. Dartmouth in 1964 and 1966 as well.
When is the last the time a team went to the Sweet 16 and was this bad 4 only years later?
25 consecutive D-1 losses. 12 consecutive Ivy losses. Our 2009-2010 team went 29-5 and 13-1 in the Ivies. Just unbelievable how the program fell apart in 4 years.
Princeton was desperate and a bad match-up. The 2009 champs lost in Jadwin by 20. Ken Pomeroy still gives Cornell a 77% chance of winning a league game and our best opportunity is Friday night at home versus Dartmouth. The Big Green stunned Penn and Princeton two weeks ago, but came back to earth a bit with double digit home losses to Brown and Yale this weekend.
What isn't a bad matchup for us?
With Grambling's win tonight over Alcorn St, I believe Cornell now holds the longest current D1 losing streak. Southern Utah is the only other school without a D1 win this year but they won 2/23/13, a week more recently than Cornell's last win.
Quote from: Luke 05With Grambling's win tonight over Alcorn St, I believe Cornell now holds the longest current D1 losing streak. Southern Utah is the only other school without a D1 win this year but they won 2/23/13, a week more recently than Cornell's last win.
Just think how much publicity we'll get when we finally win a game!
Quote from: dbilmesQuote from: Luke 05With Grambling's win tonight over Alcorn St, I believe Cornell now holds the longest current D1 losing streak. Southern Utah is the only other school without a D1 win this year but they won 2/23/13, a week more recently than Cornell's last win.
Just think how much publicity we'll get when we finally win a game!
There's no such thing as bad publicity? ::popcorn::
Boston College and Steve Donahue made #2 on the ESPN highlights playing a day later at Georgia Tech (snow). BC goes up 71-70 with :03 to play, Donahue calls time out to settle his team (Tech has none), lets Tech score a long trey to win. BC falls to 6-18.
Quote from: billhowardBoston College and Steve Donahue made #2 on the ESPN highlights playing a day later at Georgia Tech (snow). BC goes up 71-70 with :03 to play, Donahue calls time out to settle his team (Tech has none), lets Tech score a long trey to win. BC falls to 6-18.
Wow. That's almost a firing offense right there (unless he was worried that his team was about to get a technical).
Quote from: ugarteQuote from: billhowardBoston College and Steve Donahue made #2 on the ESPN highlights playing a day later at Georgia Tech (snow). BC goes up 71-70 with :03 to play, Donahue calls time out to settle his team (Tech has none), lets Tech score a long trey to win. BC falls to 6-18.
Wow. That's almost a firing offense right there (unless he was worried that his team was about to get a technical).
Unfortunately I see no way Donahue keeps that job. While he got plenty of time here to turn things around, the ACC is a different story.
Quote from: scoop85Quote from: ugarteQuote from: billhowardBoston College and Steve Donahue made #2 on the ESPN highlights playing a day later at Georgia Tech (snow). BC goes up 71-70 with :03 to play, Donahue calls time out to settle his team (Tech has none), lets Tech score a long trey to win. BC falls to 6-18.
Wow. That's almost a firing offense right there (unless he was worried that his team was about to get a technical).
Unfortunately I see no way Donahue keeps that job. While he got plenty of time here to turn things around, the ACC is a different story.
BC is staring at a 24 or 25 loss season. I like Steve, but he's down to his last 8 games as coach there.
Quote from: mountainredQuote from: scoop85Quote from: ugarteQuote from: billhowardBoston College and Steve Donahue made #2 on the ESPN highlights playing a day later at Georgia Tech (snow). BC goes up 71-70 with :03 to play, Donahue calls time out to settle his team (Tech has none), lets Tech score a long trey to win. BC falls to 6-18.
Wow. That's almost a firing offense right there (unless he was worried that his team was about to get a technical).
Unfortunately I see no way Donahue keeps that job. While he got plenty of time here to turn things around, the ACC is a different story.
BC is staring at a 24 or 25 loss season. I like Steve, but he's down to his last 8 games as coach there.
Put his name into Google. Second suggestion is "Steve Donahue contract". Sixth is "Steve Donahue hot seat". Seventh is "Steve Donahue fired".
In better news, the Big Red their first D1 game. 70-67 over Dartmouth. Cornell loses a 15 point second half lead, but I will take it.
Columbia is in double OT with Harvard. Didn't see that coming.
Quote from: ugarteColumbia is in double OT with Harvard. Didn't see that coming.
Did you see the call that sent it to double OT? Rosenberg is called for a charge that wipes out the apparent game winner with two seconds left. If Columbia had fans, there would have been a riot.
Back to losing ways, Cornell falls to Harvard 67-44. Now 2-20 for the season.
Beating an undefeated #1 on the road may not save Donahue's job, but it's a nice night for him.
Quote from: Jordan 04Beating an undefeated #1 on the road may not save Donahue's job, but it's a nice night for him.
Came here to write the same thing. Good for him.
Quote from: Jordan 04Beating an undefeated #1 on the road may not save Donahue's job, but it's a nice night for him.
62-59 in overtime. Syracuse had some close calls the last few games but who would have expected Boston College to be the one to take them down?
Quote from: ugarteQuote from: Jordan 04Beating an undefeated #1 on the road may not save Donahue's job, but it's a nice night for him.
Came here to write the same thing. Good for him.
A little to this party myself, but I'm happy for Steve.
Quote from: Jordan 04Beating an undefeated #1 on the road may not save Donahue's job, but it's a nice night for him.
Nice to see a signature win in what unfortunately could be his last season.
Cherry has a career night (29 points), but it isn't nearly enough: Yale 82 Cornell 65.
Cornell up by 2 at the half, 36-34 over Brown. Airing on NBC Sports Network.
Cornell has a one point lead, the ball and a fresh shot clock coming out of a timeout with 38.6 seconds left. LET'S GO RED!
Cornell can't buy a bucket in OT and just got a terrible call against them in OT on what was a clean block. Down 1, 2:36 to go.
Quote from: ugarteCornell can't buy a bucket in OT and just got a terrible call against them in OT on what was a clean block. Down 1, 2:36 to go.
AND THEN THE RAINS CAME
It all went south in a hurry, Cornell went down by 8 and ended up losing by six after a meaningless basket at the buzzer.
They played a pretty decent second half (didn't see the first) and really had a chance to win. Cressler, in the middle of a career game, went 1-for-2 from the line with ~35 seconds left to give CU a two point lead. Brown quickly tied it up, and the play drawn up was Devin Cherry hero ball. Cherry held the ball at the top of the key as the clock wound down and front-rimmed a 17 footer at the buzzer. Honestly, an insane decision and almost enough for me to say "Courtney has to go." Brown was fouling almost every time Cornell drove. No reason to scheme for a long jump shot from a guy who hit his first three of the season on February 22d.
Quote from: ugarteQuote from: ugarteCornell can't buy a bucket in OT and just got a terrible call against them in OT on what was a clean block. Down 1, 2:36 to go.
AND THEN THE RAINS CAME
It all went south in a hurry, Cornell went down by 8 and ended up losing by six after a meaningless basket at the buzzer.
They played a pretty decent second half (didn't see the first) and really had a chance to win. Cressler, in the middle of a career game, went 1-for-2 from the line with ~35 seconds left to give CU a two point lead. Brown quickly tied it up, and the play drawn up was Devin Cherry hero ball. Cherry held the ball at the top of the key as the clock wound down and front-rimmed a 17 footer at the buzzer. Honestly, an insane decision and almost enough for me to say "Courtney has to go." Brown was fouling almost every time Cornell drove. No reason to scheme for a long jump shot from a guy who hit his first three of the season on February 22d.
That is the Cornell end of half play, though sometimes it is Cressler in the hero role and once Tarwater (he missed). It almost never works, but Courtney seems to love the play.
2-22? How sad this program has collapsed so far.
Cornell has now lost 28 of its last 29 games versus D-1 opponents. Hard to believe...
Quote from: CASCornell has now lost 28 of its last 29 games versus D-1 opponents. Hard to believe...
Make that 29 of 30 after a one-side loss to Harvard 47-72.
Quote from: CASCornell has now lost 28 of its last 29 games versus D-1 opponents. Hard to believe...
I'll say it. What's so hard to believe? This is a historically poor program who had the fantastic fortune to have a 2-year recruiting blip that we fans were able to ride to wonderful, unimaginable heights. The coach who pulled it off took the first offer to the "big-time" he got, and we have returned to where they were before. I enjoyed the exposure, but it's not like this was ever an elite basketball program for decade after decade.
I'll cheer for our student-athletes however far they are able to perform, but c'mon. We've never been a basketball school, and I don't expect them to match the run we recently enjoyed ever again.
There are no excuses to lose 29 of 30, and 18 of 19 in the Ivies. If you accept losing, you will. I'm not calling for Cornell to return to the Sweet 16. Is it unreasonable to expect a competitive Ivy program? Do Columbia and Brown have winning traditions? Both are 7-4 in the league this year.
We've never been a basketball power, true, but historically the league conceded that title to the Penn/Princeton winner, so you can say that about the other six schools. Other than a span in the early 70's when we may have had the worst program in the nation, we've been fairly competitive in the Ivies. Not the P's, but not nearly as bad as Dartmouth or Columbia. Generally, you'd find the Big Red around 4th or 5th place.
Now, just four year removed from the pinnacle of our basketball success (and I agree success that is highly unlikely to be repeated), we will set a school record for losses. The only other time Cornell lost 23 basketball games in a season, the coach was fired (well, told to resign) with 9 games left reportedly because of excessive drinking. That's quite the precipitous fall. And keep in mind your top four in the league standings right now are: Harvard, Yale, Brown and Columbia. Granted Amaker is playing fast and loose with AI, but it's not like any of those programs have a basketball history that is any better than ours.
The term "paradigm shift" is overused, but the three straight league titles and sweet 16 run were truly an opportunity for Cornell to recast itself as an Ivy contender, especially in light of the P's dropping off. That kind of opportunity comes along once a generation and has been lost.
Now 30 of 31 losses going back to last season after tonight's loss at Dartmouth.
Quote from: Ken711Now 30 of 31 losses going back to last season after tonight's loss at Dartmouth.
We moved up in RPI (http://realtimerpi.com/rpi_Men.html).
Still 25 teams below us.
Quote from: TrotskyQuote from: Ken711Now 30 of 31 losses going back to last season after tonight's loss at Dartmouth.
We moved up in RPI (http://realtimerpi.com/rpi_Men.html).
Still 25 teams below us.
Alright, that's what I call progress ::demented::
That RPI uptick is purely a factor of playing RPI #60 Harvard. Despite the name, realtime RPI hasn't taken the Dartmouth game into account yet. What's harder to explain is how our KenPom ranking went up (granted from #336 to #333) after the loss at Dartmouth.
We are at 326 RPI, between Kennesaw State and Prairie View A&M. Binghamton, a team we played close except in the final score, is 328.
The rest of the Ivies:
060 Harvard
127 Columbia
130 Yale
145 Princeton
206 Brown
293 Penn
294 Dartmouth
326 Cornell
Small consolation: We played two overtime games (lost). We played one 1-point game (SIE, lost*). We played a 3-point game (Dartmouth, won). We played one 4-point game (Yale, lost). We led Syracuse 'til midway into the second half. We kept #3 Louisville from doubling (99-54). Only one team managed triple figures (Notre Dame).
We have the rare chance for a weekend home sweep of league royalty Princeton (iffy) and Penn (doable). Even when they're having an off year, beating a Penn or Princeton is like another Ivy beating Cornell hockey. Penn is the Saturday game, so that would be a nice sendoff for the seniors.
* Had to look the abbreviation up: SIE in the schedule summary is Siena not Southern Illinois Edwardsville. Don't click the Siena site unless necessary. It autoplays a Time Warner Cable video.
Quote from: mountainredThat RPI uptick is purely a factor of playing RPI #60 Harvard. Despite the name, realtime RPI hasn't taken the Dartmouth game into account yet. What's harder to explain is how our KenPom ranking went up (granted from #336 to #333) after the loss at Dartmouth.
Maybe late reporting of law boards and MCATS.
Quote from: billhowardSmall consolation: We played two overtime games (lost). We played one 1-point game (SIE, lost*). We played a 3-point game (Dartmouth, won). We played one 4-point game (Yale, lost). We led Syracuse 'til midway into the second half. We kept #3 Louisville from doubling (99-54). Only one team managed triple figures (Notre Dame).
We have the rare chance for a weekend home sweep of league royalty Princeton (iffy) and Penn (doable). Even when they're having an off year, beating a Penn or Princeton is like another Ivy beating Cornell hockey. Penn is the Saturday game, so that would be a nice sendoff for the seniors.
I think you are working too hard to find a bright spot. The 87 Dartmouth scored last night is the most the Big Green have had against a D1 opponent since November 2007. Our defense has come by its #350 out of 351 ranking honestly.
Still, I wouldn't be surprised if we beat Penn. One thing about these guys, they play hard. Penn, on the other hand, looks like they are going through the motions.
You know the joke, " ... there's got to be a pony here somewhere."
Quote from: billhowardYou know the joke, " ... there's got to be a pony here somewhere."
Hadn't hear it before, but it sure applies.
Quote from: billhowardYou know the joke, " ... there's got to be a pony here somewhere."
I'd be happy if we can find a Shetland in there somewhere. ::whistle::
Quote from: mountainredQuote from: billhowardYou know the joke, " ... there's got to be a pony here somewhere."
I'd be happy if we can find a Shetland in there somewhere. ::whistle::
More likely a ::deadhorse::
I would hope that by late next week we'll know if BC will still be here next year. If AN plans on giving Bill the heave oh, very few things would cause him to let this drag out.
Down at one point 25-0, Cornell loses by 40, 91-51.
Quote from: SwampyDown at one point 25-0, Cornell loses by 40, 91-51.
Even cornell football is typically less embarrassing than that.
Meanwhile, Columbia crushed Penn to clinch its first winning ivy season since 93...
Hard to believe there could be any chance Courtney can be retained after such a humiliation.
Quote from: scoop85Hard to believe there could be any chance Courtney can be retained after such a humiliation.
We are going to find out where hoops ranks in the Cornell sports hierarchy. Is it a sport that matters (the school buys out the fifth year of BC's contract and starts over) or is it a sport we are contractually obligated to field (BC stays for the lamest of lame duck seasons). Is there any doubt that a similar season would result in a changing of the guard in hockey?
I hope Andy is paying attention. 1 win in last 32 D-1 games. Lose by 40 at home.
Quote from: CASI hope Andy is paying attention. 1 win in last 32 D-1 games. Lose by 40 at home.
First thought: Why in the world would Iles be paying attention to basketball? Oh, wait....
Quote from: CASI hope Andy is paying attention. 1 win in last 32 D-1 games. Lose by 40 at home.
It's not just a 40 point loss, it was 25-0 eight minutes in and effectively over. The 1017 people who showed up got treated to a scrimmage from there.
Princeton also came to Ithaca with a losing Ivy record
Quote from: RobbQuote from: CASI hope Andy is paying attention. 1 win in last 32 D-1 games. Lose by 40 at home.
First thought: Why in the world would Iles be paying attention to basketball? Oh, wait....
Exactly. Who cares about basketball?
Seriously, have to pay off DeLuca and possibly recruit a top lax coach at the same time that pressure is increasing on Desko at Syracuse. Courtney might get his last year.
Many of us care about basketball.
We have a lacrosse coach. That's not what we need.
After today, the "search" for a lax coach may be a lesser priority.
Quote from: mountainredAfter today, the "search" for a lax coach may be a lesser priority.
After losing 16 seniors, obviously it's the system.
Final game of the season (unless a slew of forefeits gives us the Ivy AQ). Give the condemned man a day of peace?
I actually expect the guys to win tonight and hope they do. Penn may be an even bigger mess and Hicks may be out (he was tossed from last night's game for throwing a punch at a Columbia player).
Quote from: mountainredI actually expect the guys to win tonight and hope they do. Penn may be an even bigger mess and Hicks may be out (he was tossed from last night's game for throwing a punch at a Columbia player).
Probably missed, even if it happened within 2-point range.
Quote from: billhowardQuote from: mountainredI actually expect the guys to win tonight and hope they do. Penn may be an even bigger mess and Hicks may be out (he was tossed from last night's game for throwing a punch at a Columbia player).
Probably missed, even if it happened within 2-point range.
+1
This senior night ceremony is embarrassing. I can only imagine what they were thinking as recruits.
Quote from: CASI hope Andy is paying attention. 1 win in last 32 D-1 games. Lose by 40 at home.
I'm sure all Andy cares about this weekend is EIWAs.
Last 5 minutes, a one-score game starts to slip away and Penn pulls up by 7. Would have been 9 but for a rejected Penn dunk by the rim. Got it 4 with :35, :11 and :00 to play. Final, Penn 69, Cornell 65.
No matter, season ends with 1 Ivy win, 1 D-III non-Ivy win: 1-13 Ivy, 2-26 overall. Hey, they tried. Posted at 9:00 p.m. How much of a respite 'til the knives come out?
Penn 69 Cornell 65 final.
The 2014-15 season begins.
Quote from: mountainredPenn 69 Cornell 65 final.
The 2014-15 season begins.
Could it ever be worse than this season? AN are you reading this?
Quote from: billhoward1 D-III non-Ivy win
Oberlin thinks of themselves as Ivy-like, does that count for anything?
Quote from: mountainredQuote from: billhoward1 D-III non-Ivy win
Oberlin thinks of themselves as Ivy-like, does that count for anything?
Ivy-liked in what way: times since 1965 they occupied the president's office? overwrought faculty meetings? tuition, room and board? classes dropped for emotional wellness reasons? alumni now raiders of Wall Street? alumni shaping the news on TV? Oberlin certainly gives sophisticated thought to the name of its Ultimate team: Oberlin Flying Horsecows vs. Cornell Buds.
Quote from: billhowardQuote from: mountainredQuote from: billhoward1 D-III non-Ivy win
Oberlin thinks of themselves as Ivy-like, does that count for anything?
Ivy-liked in what way: times since 1965 they occupied the president's office? overwrought faculty meetings? tuition, room and board? classes dropped for emotional wellness reasons? alumni now raiders of Wall Street? alumni shaping the news on TV? Oberlin certainly gives sophisticated thought to the name of its Ultimate team: Oberlin Flying Horsecows vs. Cornell Buds.
That sounds Ivy-like to me.
I assume we'll find out in the next few days if Andy Noel cares at all about basketball.
Quote from: CASI assume we'll find out in the next few days if Andy Noel cares at all about basketball.
Or if the school has a preference regarding eating expensive head coaching contracts.
Quote from: ugarteQuote from: CASI assume we'll find out in the next few days if Andy Noel cares at all about basketball.
Or if the school has a preference regarding eating expensive head coaching contracts.
Oh, I'm sure they have a preference there.
Cressler was named Honorable Mention all-Ivy. Congratulations to Nolan.
Cornell is a combined 37-78 during the Bill Courtney era.
Quote from: CASCornell is a combined 37-78 during the Bill Courtney era.
Cornell was 32-76 during Donahue's first 4 years, though he was showing improvement. There were then two more losing seasons before Steve had his first winning campaign.
Steve inherited a much more difficult situation than Bill. Steve's teams generally improved throughout his tenure, and Cornell went 6-8 in the Ivies in year 4. In year 5 Cornell went 8-6 and finished 2nd in the league. Not sure how Steve's record is relevant in evaluating Bill.
Quote from: CASSteve inherited a much more difficult situation than Bill. Steve's teams generally improved throughout his tenure, and Cornell went 6-8 in the Ivies in year 4. In year 5 Cornell went 8-6 and finished 2nd in the league. Not sure how Steve's record is relevant in evaluating Bill.
It's relevant in demonstrating how the school does or does not react to coaching record.
I argue it's not a good comparison. Steve inherited a losing program and was making good progress after 4 years. Bill started after all the positive press of 3 consecutive Ivy titles and a Sweet 16, and has lost 32 of his last 33 D-1 games.
Quote from: CASI argue it's not a good comparison. Steve inherited a losing program and was making good progress after 4 years. Bill started after all the positive press of 3 consecutive Ivy titles and a Sweet 16, and has lost 32 of his last 33 D-1 games.
He also started after everyone who made that team a winner had graduated. The rest of Donohue's recruits going forward weren't that great and, whatever advantage Cornell was supposed to get in recruiting from a Sweet 16 appearance probably disappeared the second the coach from that team took the BC job.
I'm not even arguing in favor of Courtney - this year was so awful that a firing wouldn't be undeserved - but I don't think it matches up with the reality of how Cornell has run the basketball program to expect that the school fires coaches for on-court performance. Our football program has been generally moribund and I still think we lose more coaches to better offers than we do to the axe.
Not every key player from the Sweet 16 team graduated in 2010. But more importantly this year's team is Bill's team - it featured 3 classes of his recruits.
Quote from: CASNot every key player from the Sweet 16 team graduated in 2010.
That team graduated Wittman, Dale, Foote, Jacques and Reeves. There were non-seniors on the team (notably Wroblewski) but that senior class
was the entire three-year run.
And what's your defense for the performance of this year's team?
Quote from: CASAnd what's your defense for the performance of this year's team?
None. See above.
Here is the thing about this season: The team was making the same mistakes on defense at the end of the season that it did at the start of the season which was the following:
No sliding over by players to help on interior defense which let opposing players drive to the basket
No rotation off of double teams thus leaving guys on the outside for wide open threes
It leads one to believe that either the players Courtney recruited are not capable or whatever message he was driving was not getting across
Yes-Shonn Miller returns next season but that is not the whole answer. There are immense problems and leads one to hope that Courtney's recruits might bring some other scoring options besides Nolan Cressler and Devin Cherry. Give him the final year of the contract. Not blaming Andy Noel for the hire-Courtney had some great credentials but as a long time season ticket holder it has been painful to watch this mess.
Quote from: rss77Here is the thing about this season: The team was making the same mistakes on defense at the end of the season that it did at the start of the season which was the following:
No sliding over by players to help on interior defense which let opposing players drive to the basket
No rotation off of double teams thus leaving guys on the outside for wide open threes
It leads one to believe that either the players Courtney recruited are not capable or whatever message he was driving was not getting across
Yes-Shonn Miller returns next season but that is not the whole answer. There are immense problems and leads one to hope that Courtney's recruits might bring some other scoring options besides Nolan Cressler and Devin Cherry. Give him the final year of the contract. Not blaming Andy Noel for the hire-Courtney had some great credentials but as a long time season ticket holder it has been painful to watch this mess.
This is basically my attitude. You let the contract play out, you see if 2014-15 shows real promise, but it isn't like I think he's earned a renewal.
Quote from: ugarteThat team graduated Wittman, Dale, Foote, Jacques and Reeves. There were non-seniors on the team (notably Wroblewski) but that senior class was the entire three-year run.
How did that class happen? Was it just a pure fluke; did the admissions office pull a Brown and ahem "assist" the coaching staff?
tl;dr: was that a repeatable action?
Quote from: TrotskyQuote from: ugarteThat team graduated Wittman, Dale, Foote, Jacques and Reeves. There were non-seniors on the team (notably Wroblewski) but that senior class was the entire three-year run.
How did that class happen? Was it just a pure fluke; did the admissions office pull a Brown and ahem "assist" the coaching staff?
tl;dr: was that a repeatable action?
As I recall, it wasn't like Donohue was an ace recruiter. Whittman wasn't recruited heavily because of an injury; Dale wasn't recruited, he sought out Cornell; and Foote transferred from St. Bonaventure after his mother, a nurse, met the Cornell team who was visiting a seriously injured player (Khaliq Gant, I think) in the hospital. Foote certainly developed, however, during his time on the Hill. [Washington Post article] (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/03/19/AR2010031904279.html)
Quote from: George64Quote from: TrotskyQuote from: ugarteThat team graduated Wittman, Dale, Foote, Jacques and Reeves. There were non-seniors on the team (notably Wroblewski) but that senior class was the entire three-year run.
How did that class happen? Was it just a pure fluke; did the admissions office pull a Brown and ahem "assist" the coaching staff?
tl;dr: was that a repeatable action?
As I recall, it wasn't like Donohue was an ace recruiter. Whittman wasn't recruited heavily because of an injury; Dale wasn't recruited, he sought out Cornell; and Foote transferred from St. Bonaventure after his mother, a nurse, met the Cornell team who was visiting a seriously injured player (Khaliq Gant, I think) in the hospital. Foote certainly developed, however, during his time on the Hill. [Washington Post article] (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/03/19/AR2010031904279.html)
Agreed. The stars aligned brilliantly for that run. It wasn't a sudden influx of blue chip players.
Cornell Chronicle article about Khalig Gant (http://www.news.cornell.edu/stories/2009/03/gant-steady-presence-big-red).
Quote from: George64Quote from: TrotskyQuote from: ugarteThat team graduated Wittman, Dale, Foote, Jacques and Reeves. There were non-seniors on the team (notably Wroblewski) but that senior class was the entire three-year run.
How did that class happen? Was it just a pure fluke; did the admissions office pull a Brown and ahem "assist" the coaching staff?
tl;dr: was that a repeatable action?
As I recall, it wasn't like Donohue was an ace recruiter. Whittman wasn't recruited heavily because of an injury; Dale wasn't recruited, he sought out Cornell; and Foote transferred from St. Bonaventure after his mother, a nurse, met the Cornell team who was visiting a seriously injured player (Khaliq Gant, I think) in the hospital. Foote certainly developed, however, during his time on the Hill. [Washington Post article] (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/03/19/AR2010031904279.html)
This is it: it was luck.
Wittman's dad played in the NBA (and is currently the head coach of the Wizards) and he was expected to play above the Ivy League, but he got hurt his senior year. One of the advantages of having a dad who is the coach of (at the time) the Timberwolves is that you don't need a scholarship. Donahue got him, which was a great get, because he was an amazing Ivy player.
Louis Dale was a 5'9" guard out of Birmingham. There is no reason he shouldn't have been recruited by all of the Ivies but Birmingham is a little off of the recruiting trail. He sent a tape to Cornell and Donahue and staff couldn't believe that nobody had heard of a kid that good with Ivy academic credentials. Snapped him up.
When Khaliq Gant, Cornell's best player at the time, broke his neck during a January 2006 practice, he ended up getting treated at an upstate NY hospital. One of his nurses was very impressed with the sense of camaraderie she saw in the Cornell team and coaching staff, who were regular visitors during Gant's recovery. She mentioned that her son, a 7'1" center at St. Bonaventure, was unhappy with his school and wondered if Cornell had a place for him since everyone seemed much happier. Donahue said yes, fed the kid like he was foie gras, and taught him how to improve his footwork.
And then when all of them were seniors, the NCAA tournament committee looked around the room, nodded silently, and put the Red in a bracket as a 12 seed with two plodding, low-scoring teams as the 4 and 5 seeds. Cornell destroyed both of them. Then faced a Kentucky team who took about five minutes to figure out that they actually had to try, but once they did try, the game was over.
Quote from: CASSteve inherited a much more difficult situation than Bill. Steve's teams generally improved throughout his tenure, and Cornell went 6-8 in the Ivies in year 4. In year 5 Cornell went 8-6 and finished 2nd in the league. Not sure how Steve's record is relevant in evaluating Bill.
I didn't say it was.
Quote from: ugarteAnd then when all of them were seniors, the NCAA tournament committee looked around the room, nodded silently, and put the Red in a bracket as a 12 seed with two plodding, low-scoring teams as the 4 and 5 seeds. Cornell destroyed both of them. Then faced a Kentucky team who took about five minutes to figure out that they actually had to try, but once they did try, the game was over.
While Kentucky certainly opened up a big lead after our initial punch, for whatever reason it's often overlooked that Cornell did cut the deficit to 6 with 5+ minutes to play. 6 straight Kentucky points later, it was essentially over.
Quote from: Jordan 04Quote from: ugarteAnd then when all of them were seniors, the NCAA tournament committee looked around the room, nodded silently, and put the Red in a bracket as a 12 seed with two plodding, low-scoring teams as the 4 and 5 seeds. Cornell destroyed both of them. Then faced a Kentucky team who took about five minutes to figure out that they actually had to try, but once they did try, the game was over.
While Kentucky certainly opened up a big lead after our initial punch, for whatever reason it's often overlooked that Cornell did cut the deficit to 6 with 5+ minutes to play. 6 straight Kentucky points later, it was essentially over.
I mean... come on, Jordan. We opened on a 10-2 run. They then essentially did that to us three times and the score was 32-16 at halftime. After the half Kentucky put the game on cruise control.
Quote from: ugarte***
And then when all of them were seniors, the NCAA tournament committee looked around the room, nodded silently, and put the Red in a bracket as a 12 seed with two plodding, low-scoring teams as the 4 and 5 seeds. Cornell destroyed both of them. Then faced a Kentucky team who took about five minutes to figure out that they actually had to try, but once they did try, the game was over.
Careful ugarte, you are beginning to sound like one of those Penn fans who refuse to acknowledge Cornell's title run or sweet sixteen appearance as legitimate. I know you don't want that. :-)
I agree that while our guys competed hard with Kentucky and made a nice late run, there was never a moment in the second half when I thought we were actually going to win. Still, they made a thinly-disguised NBA D-league team sweat a little and work for the win.
But the Temple and Wisconsin wins were hardly NCAA gifts. Sure, Cornell was a trendy upset pick (good Ivy teams always are because it makes good copy), but there were plenty of basketball experts who thought Temple was underseeded and that the Big Red would never crack their top 10 ranked defense. Plus, Dunphy and Temple knew the Ivy League wouldn't take an Ivy team lightly. Wisconsin had wins over Duke, Michigan State and Ohio State. Ken Pomeroy has both Temple and Wisconin in his final top 15. They were good teams.
And Cornell waxed them. These were not flukey buzzer-beaters; both games were basically over with 10 minutes left (not that I didn't hang on every play and worry about every small momentum change). The guys saved their best two games for the NCAA tournament and crushed two very solid teams.
Quote from: ugarteQuote from: rss77Here is the thing about this season: The team was making the same mistakes on defense at the end of the season that it did at the start of the season which was the following:
No sliding over by players to help on interior defense which let opposing players drive to the basket
No rotation off of double teams thus leaving guys on the outside for wide open threes
It leads one to believe that either the players Courtney recruited are not capable or whatever message he was driving was not getting across
Yes-Shonn Miller returns next season but that is not the whole answer. There are immense problems and leads one to hope that Courtney's recruits might bring some other scoring options besides Nolan Cressler and Devin Cherry. Give him the final year of the contract. Not blaming Andy Noel for the hire-Courtney had some great credentials but as a long time season ticket holder it has been painful to watch this mess.
This is basically my attitude. You let the contract play out, you see if 2014-15 shows real promise, but it isn't like I think he's earned a renewal.
I guess my attitude is the evidence after four years is pretty overwhelming that Courtney isn't the right person for the job and letting him finish out his contract is merely delaying the inevitable. And the message you send the world is "look, basketball really isn't that big a deal here; we'd rather save the money and not pay someone not to coach." Of course, that message is probably the truth and Courtney seems like a good man and the team seems to like him.
The hiring decision made sense. The recruiting arms race in the Ivy League has really escalated -- thanks largely to Tommy A and his AI games -- and Bill was known for his recruiting. He's just needed to have a solid X and O guy on the bench and hasn't. Jay Larranaga was supposed to be that guy, but he left town almost before he arrived. His replacement, Marlon Sears, is a coach known best for being a good recruiter. That has left the Big Red a real disadvantage, especially since the recruiting has been a mixed bag: Miller and Cressler have worked out well; Cancer, Harmon and Bunce not as much. That's probably sufficient if you develop great schemes, but not if you don't.
Quote from: mountainredQuote from: ugarte***
And then when all of them were seniors, the NCAA tournament committee looked around the room, nodded silently, and put the Red in a bracket as a 12 seed with two plodding, low-scoring teams as the 4 and 5 seeds. Cornell destroyed both of them. Then faced a Kentucky team who took about five minutes to figure out that they actually had to try, but once they did try, the game was over.
Careful ugarte, you are beginning to sound like one of those Penn fans who refuse to acknowledge Cornell's title run or sweet sixteen appearance as legitimate. I know you don't want that. :-)
I agree that while our guys competed hard with Kentucky and made a nice late run, there was never a moment in the second half when I thought we were actually going to win. Still, they made a thinly-disguised NBA D-league team sweat a little and work for the win.
But the Temple and Wisconsin wins were hardly NCAA gifts. Sure, Cornell was a trendy upset pick (good Ivy teams always are because it makes good copy), but there were plenty of basketball experts who thought Temple was underseeded and that the Big Red would never crack their top 10 ranked defense. Plus, Dunphy and Temple knew the Ivy League wouldn't take an Ivy team lightly. Wisconsin had wins over Duke, Michigan State and Ohio State. Ken Pomeroy has both Temple and Wisconin in his final top 15. They were good teams.
And Cornell waxed them. These were not flukey buzzer-beaters; both games were basically over with 10 minutes left (not that I didn't hang on every play and worry about every small momentum change). The guys saved their best two games for the NCAA tournament and crushed two very solid teams.
I agree with all of this! I'm not saying Wisconsin and Temple weren't excellent teams. They were. So was Cornell! But it is a team that had specific matchup problems that weren't manifest against teams that didn't score well and focused on interior defense.
Harvard is a 12 seed, plays Cincinnati in Spokane on Thursday.
Quote from: nyc94Harvard is a 12 seed, plays Cincinnati in Spokane on Thursday.
And CBS / ESPN go on about how this is a well coached team that really could pull an upset. Like to see Harvard win the first one but have it remain only special Ivy teams that survive the first weekend.
Did my heart good to see Rick Pitino go on and on Saturday about how his Louisville deserved a 1-seed ... then Sunday got a 4-seed. But then he can feel good that Kentucky got an 8-seed.
http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/eye-on-college-basketball/24482383/steve-donahue-to-remain-at-bc
Cant believe Donahue gets to keep his job one more year
http://www.thetournament.com/teams/cornell-sweet-sixteen
Sign up to support the Sweet 16 team. They are getting back together to play in a tournament at Philly U this summer: http://www.thetournament.com/about
Quote from: phillysportsfanhttp://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/eye-on-college-basketball/24482383/steve-donahue-to-remain-at-bc
Cant believe Donahue gets to keep his job one more year
So his contract expires right when Courtney's does?
Just sayin'.
Quote from: TrotskyQuote from: phillysportsfanhttp://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/eye-on-college-basketball/24482383/steve-donahue-to-remain-at-bc
Cant believe Donahue gets to keep his job one more year
So his contract expires right when Courtney's does? Just sayin'.
Gives Donahue, who'd love to be in Philadelphia, another year while Penn takes another year to make up its mind about coach Jerome Allen (a Penn legend as a player). Allen wins since taking over midway into 2009-2010 season:
6 (partial season)
13
20
9
8
56-85 overall in 5 seasons. The trajectory was up for 2 years, now down for 2.
Maybe Donahue steps back in a year to being an assistant. Al Skinner, previous coach at BC, was out of coaching for 2 or 3 years, now an asst at Bryant. Skinner is also 61 or 62, a decade older than Donahue. Maybe Donahue pulls out the magic rabbit next year.
If he does get fired I don't see him going to Penn, it isn't the job it was when Dunphy left. There is a lot of rebuilding to do and the alumni have unrealistic expectations, Harvard isn't going anywhere
He would be better of becoming an assistant at a major or becoming a coach at another mid major again. I hope he can put it together nex t year, has to make the tournament
Quote from: phillysportsfanhttp://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/eye-on-college-basketball/24482383/steve-donahue-to-remain-at-bc
Cant believe Donahue gets to keep his job one more year
Nothing against Steve, but that is very surprising.
yes it doest make sense, BC has a new AD, if you are the AD I don't know how you don't fire him. He recruited too many Ivy level players and should have hired more assistants with ACC experience instead of bringing his whole staff along
Quote from: mountainredQuote from: phillysportsfanhttp://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/eye-on-college-basketball/24482383/steve-donahue-to-remain-at-bc
Cant believe Donahue gets to keep his job one more year
Nothing against Steve, but that is very surprising.
Donahue was fired today.
http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/eye-on-college-basketball/24490348/report-steve-donahue-fired-at-boston-college
Quote from: Ken711Quote from: mountainredQuote from: phillysportsfanhttp://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/eye-on-college-basketball/24482383/steve-donahue-to-remain-at-bc
Cant believe Donahue gets to keep his job one more year
Nothing against Steve, but that is very surprising.
Donahue was fired today.
http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/eye-on-college-basketball/24490348/report-steve-donahue-fired-at-boston-college
So much for the earlier source.
Quote from: Boston GlobeWho will replace Donahue? According to multiple sources, Harvard's Tommy Amaker is the leading candidate for the position. "In the next 24 hours, we are going to begin a needs assessment for our program," [AD Brad] Bates said. "We need to identify a profile of the specific coaches that can lead us at this point." Amaker is a likely choice because of his ACC pedigree, having played and served as an assistant at Duke under coach Mike Krzyzewski. Amaker also had head coaching stints in the Big East at Seton Hall and in the Big Ten at Michigan, recruiting blue-chip prospects at both schools.
Typical media, always trying to put the story out there first
I think Amaker can hold out for better jobs, a good job in a bad league is better than a bad job in a good league
Will be interesting to see where Donahue goes
If you've got good contacts into New England college hoops, you hear Amaker is being considered, you know part of what you hear is a trial balloon ... and you don't write it? Please.
Quote from: phillysportsfanTypical media, always trying to put the story out there first
I think Amaker can hold out for better jobs, a good job in a bad league is better than a bad job in a good league
Will be interesting to see where Donahue goes
Penn would be my guess.
Quote from: phillysportsfanTypical media, always trying to put the story out there first
I think Amaker can hold out for better jobs, a good job in a bad league is better than a bad job in a good league
Will be interesting to see where Donahue goes
I could easily see Amaker going to BC. Maybe he likes living in Boston. Maybe his wife has cemented her career. Does he have kids? Maybe they are in high school and the family doesn't want to leave. Maybe BC could make him a financial offer too good to pass up. We lost a lacrosse coach because of family reasons, if "reports are to be believed":-}.
Quote from: Jim HylaQuote from: phillysportsfanTypical media, always trying to put the story out there first
I think Amaker can hold out for better jobs, a good job in a bad league is better than a bad job in a good league
Will be interesting to see where Donahue goes
I could easily see Amaker going to BC. Maybe he likes living in Boston. Maybe his wife has cemented her career. Does he have kids? Maybe they are in high school and the family doesn't want to leave. Maybe BC could make him a financial offer too good to pass up. We lost a lacrosse coach because of family reasons, if "reports are to be believed":-}.
Amaker has a nice $2,000,000 second home on Cape Cod.
Quote from: Al DeFlorioQuote from: Jim HylaQuote from: phillysportsfanTypical media, always trying to put the story out there first
I think Amaker can hold out for better jobs, a good job in a bad league is better than a bad job in a good league
Will be interesting to see where Donahue goes
I could easily see Amaker going to BC. Maybe he likes living in Boston. Maybe his wife has cemented her career. Does he have kids? Maybe they are in high school and the family doesn't want to leave. Maybe BC could make him a financial offer too good to pass up. We lost a lacrosse coach because of family reasons, if "reports are to be believed":-}.
Amaker has a nice $2,000,000 second home on Cape Cod.
I doubt Amaker ever leaves Harvard unless Duke comes calling. BC does have the advantage of not uprooting his family; from a quick internet search, it appears his wife has an impressive career going with Harvard's med school. His record at Seton Hall and Michigan was okay, but nothing too sterling, and I think he is smart enough to realize his Harvard success is largely a function of Harvard's willingness to bend the AI to establish a good basketball team. If he goes anywhere else, he goes back to a level playing field and likely reverts to an average basketball coach.
Cressler leaving the program. Hopefully this is the kind of move it takes to get Andy off his ass and make the move that should be made. I'm disgusted
Quote from: semsoxCressler leaving the program. Hopefully this is the kind of move it takes to get Andy off his ass and make the move that should be made. I'm disgusted
Agreed, I wouldnt be surprised if Miller leaves next, then we are really screwed. Andy needs to call Donahue now!
Cressler averaged 17 points a game for a team that scored only 64/game, and was only a sophomore. When you thought it couldn't get any worse...
And Harvard limps into another NCAA tournament win, ugly game
Quote from: semsoxCressler leaving the program. Hopefully this is the kind of move it takes to get Andy off his ass and make the move that should be made. I'm disgusted
Link or is this deep background?
Quote from: phillysportsfanAnd Harvard limps into another NCAA tournament win, ugly game
there goes my 1 billion dollar bracket :(.
Quote from: phillysportsfanAnd Harvard limps into another NCAA tournament win, ugly game
So it's only hockey where they can't win NCAA games.
Quote from: ugarteQuote from: semsoxCressler leaving the program. Hopefully this is the kind of move it takes to get Andy off his ass and make the move that should be made. I'm disgusted
Link or is this deep background?
First reported by this guy: https://twitter.com/BillBeckner/status/446701705598865408, https://twitter.com/cornell_bb_blog lists others who reported it
Awful news, if true, about Nolan.
Quote from: mountainredAwful news, if true, about Nolan.
The only plus side is if this forces Andy to have to fire Courtney now
Quote from: phillysportsfanQuote from: mountainredAwful news, if true, about Nolan.
The only plus side is if this forces Andy to have to fire Courtney now
Cancer, Harmon (who was a highly-regarded recruit even though he never played) and now Cressler. You have to hope that gets Andy's attention once he gets back from OKC. Of course, the school record for losses wasn't enough, so who knows?
Quote from: mountainredQuote from: phillysportsfanQuote from: mountainredAwful news, if true, about Nolan.
The only plus side is if this forces Andy to have to fire Courtney now
Cancer, Harmon (who was a highly-regarded recruit even though he never played) and now Cressler. You have to hope that gets Andy's attention once he gets back from OKC. Of course, the school record for losses wasn't enough, so who knows?
Well if they were going to fire him from the beginning they would probably wait till next week anyway when wrestling is over
http://triblive.com/sports/otherlocal/5802903-74/cressler-cornell-basketball#axzz2wScWoVQJ
Quote"It all depends on the fit," said Cressler, who turned heads at last summer's Pittsburgh Basketball Club Pro-Am, scoring 38 in one game. "I feel I can play at a higher level. If it can work out on the basketball court, and I can continue the high level of education, than that's where I'll be."
Look like its a done deal that he is gone, article has direct quotes from Cressler
Quote from: phillysportsfanhttp://triblive.com/sports/otherlocal/5802903-74/cressler-cornell-basketball#axzz2wScWoVQJ
Quote"It all depends on the fit," said Cressler, who turned heads at last summer's Pittsburgh Basketball Club Pro-Am, scoring 38 in one game. "I feel I can play at a higher level. If it can work out on the basketball court, and I can continue the high level of education, than that's where I'll be."
Look like its a done deal that he is gone, article has direct quotes from Cressler
I wonder if a place like Northwestern might be a good fit for him. Up-and-coming young coach and top-flight academics, and he can fill a real need for a team that can have trouble scoring.
Yes Northwestern is on his list but it appears he wants to go to Pitt where he is from, https://twitter.com/MattSteinbrink/status/446772979654217728
If he can play at those schools he shouldn't be at Cornell anyway. *ducks*
Just occurred to me that this year Courtney's old team, American, made the tournament for the first time since he left.
Quote from: ugarteIf he can play at those schools he shouldn't be at Cornell anyway. *ducks*
Just occurred to me that this year Courtney's old team, American, made the tournament for the first time since he left.
I don't think Courtney ever coached at American. Perhaps your thinking of George Mason?
Quote from: scoop85Quote from: ugarteIf he can play at those schools he shouldn't be at Cornell anyway. *ducks*
Just occurred to me that this year Courtney's old team, American, made the tournament for the first time since he left.
I don't think Courtney ever coached at American. Perhaps your thinking of George Mason?
He did coach at American, but it was his first job, not his last job. I don't know why that stuck in my head instead of his (more impressive) association with Larranaga at BGSU/GMU.
Quote from: ugarteQuote from: scoop85Quote from: ugarteIf he can play at those schools he shouldn't be at Cornell anyway. *ducks*
Just occurred to me that this year Courtney's old team, American, made the tournament for the first time since he left.
I don't think Courtney ever coached at American. Perhaps your thinking of George Mason?
He did coach at American, but it was his first job, not his last job. I don't know why that stuck in my head instead of his (more impressive) association with Larranaga at BGSU/GMU.
ok -- I didn't recall that he had been at American.
Andy, please stop the insanity.
Is there any accountability for performance?
Quote from: CASIs there any accountability for performance?
From what I see and hear it's likely a matter that Cornell doesn't have it in the athletic department budget to fire coaches without cause (and being a horrible coach is not cause, as much as we might like it to be). Barring some miraculous turnaround next year, I assume Courtney will just be a lame duck -- which is certainly not beneficial to the program.
Quote from: scoop85Quote from: CASIs there any accountability for performance?
From what I see and hear it's likely a matter that Cornell doesn't have it in the athletic department budget to fire coaches without cause (and being a horrible coach is not cause, as much as we might like it to be). Barring some miraculous turnaround next year, I assume Courtney will just be a lame duck -- which is certainly not beneficial to the program.
I think the Indiana University alumni were involved in buying out one coach (Kelvin Sampson even though there were also NC$$ violations involved too) and I heard rumors that they want to buy out the current coach Tom Crean who in the six years he has been there (the first ones cleaning up the mess left by Sampson) has a 0.510 winning percentage and two NC$$ tourney bids.
So I guess if the alumni want Courtney to go, they need to pony up the money.
How much you think it'll take?
Quote from: toddloseHow much you think it'll take?
I'm not sure, but IU alumni care about their basketball 100X times more than I think the Cornell alumni base. When I lived in the land of the Boilermakers (West Lafayette, 2004-2009), it was practically a state of emergency/diaster when the Indiana basketball teams did not make the NC$$s. I don't remember the exact numbers, but a substantial amount of money was pledged to help the athletic department with the financial implications of getting out of the contract.
Keith Olbermann gave a shout-out to the Sweet 16 team last night.
[video]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CtNRNlCymCQ&list=UUdJtV6wXT6lnrvldU_urowQ[/video]
Quote from: RitaQuote from: toddloseHow much you think it'll take?
I'm not sure, but IU alumni care about their basketball 100X times more than I think the Cornell alumni base. When I lived in the land of the Boilermakers (West Lafayette, 2004-2009), it was practically a state of emergency/diaster when the Indiana basketball teams did not make the NC$$s. I don't remember the exact numbers, but a substantial amount of money was pledged to help the athletic department with the financial implications of getting out of the contract.
100X is probably an underestimate. IU alumni probably care 100X more about hoops than Cornell alumni (eLynah company excepted) care about hockey. They are rather fanatical.
What do you think the revenues for men's basketball (ticket sales, fundraising, etc.) will be in 2014-5 if no changes are made?
Quote from: WederKeith Olbermann gave a shout-out to the Sweet 16 team last night.
[video]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CtNRNlCymCQ&list=UUdJtV6wXT6lnrvldU_urowQ[/video]
http://vimeo.com/10371664
He told the same story on Countdown when we made the Sweet 16. Hard to believe that was only 4 years ago, Sweet 16 to 1 win
Quote from: CASWhat do you think the revenues for men's basketball (ticket sales, fundraising, etc.) will be in 2014-5 if no changes are made?
I would imagine revenues were low this year since we knew from the beginning Miller was out and Courtney couldnt coach.
Revenues probably cannot go much lower and we cannot possibly be worse next year, I would think by accident they can get more than 1 win.
Quote from: toddloseHow much you think it'll take?
Courtney makes somewhere between 200-350K
Harvard gave Mich St (a popular champion pick) a real battle, if Amaker sticks around a Sweet 16 appearance for them seems inevitable.
Andy, now that wrestling is over time to get rid of Courtney. The conference continues to get better with 5 schools in the postseason and Harvard just missing the Sweet 16 while we plummet to a historically bad year. If you dont find a way to fire Courtney now, it is painfully obvious you dont care at all about basketball
Interestingly Steve Donahue was fired with 2 years remaining on a contract that reportedly paid him over $1 million per year. So BC ate in excess of $2 million in dismissing him.
Quote from: phillysportsfanCourtney makes somewhere between 200-350K
What's wrong with this picture? According to the 2013 AAUP faculty salary survey (https://chronicle.com/article/aaup-survey-data-2013/138309#id=190415), Cornell paid on average $159.8k, $110.7k and $97.8k (9 month equivalents) for Full, Associate and Assistant Professors. CU faculty salaries rank around the 90th percentile among doctoral institutions, but exceeded only Brown in the Ivy League.
It is an endowed position so I don't know how much Cornell actually pays him a year (if anything) vs what the donor pays that endowed the position.
Quote from: George64Quote from: phillysportsfanCourtney makes somewhere between 200-350K
What's wrong with this picture? According to the 2013 AAUP faculty salary survey (https://chronicle.com/article/aaup-survey-data-2013/138309#id=190415), Cornell paid on average $159.8k, $110.7k and $97.8k (9 month equivalents) for Full, Associate and Assistant Professors. CU faculty salaries rank around the 90th percentile among doctoral institutions, but exceeded only Brown in the Ivy League.
Adjusted for cost of living, I'd guess that Cornell is comparable to the other Ivies. I did one calculation, and the average salary for a full professor at Cornell comes out ahead of the salary for a full professor at Columbia who wants to live in Queens.
EDIT: Though I wonder if the average Cornell salaries include the medical school faculty, and if the data for those professors have a significant impact.
Quote from: WederEDIT: Though I wonder if the average Cornell salaries include the medical school faculty, and if the data for those professors have a significant impact.
I recall reading that it's the Ithaca campus only, but I can't find the reference now.
Quote from: George64Quote from: WederEDIT: Though I wonder if the average Cornell salaries include the medical school faculty, and if the data for those professors have a significant impact.
I recall reading that it's the Ithaca campus only, but I can't find the reference now.
I remember reading a story years ago about how a Sun reporter looked up the top five highest paid Cornell employees, expecting to find out how much Dale Corson made, but was disappointed to find that the top five were all on the Med School faculty.
Definitely have to adjust for cost of living. A decent house in Cambridge, NYC or Princeton would be at least $1 million. That kind of house in Princeton at least would carry $25K in property taxes.
Quote from: billhowardDefinitely have to adjust for cost of living. A decent house in Cambridge, NYC or Princeton would be at least $1 million. That kind of house in Princeton at least would carry $25K in property taxes.
But against this you have to weigh that you're living in Cambridge, NYC, or about an hour from either NYC or Philly. YGWYPF.
Quote from: David HardingI remember reading a story years ago about how a Sun reporter looked up the top five highest paid Cornell employees, expecting to find out how much Dale Corson made, but was disappointed to find that the top five were all on the Med School faculty.
Sill true, owing largely to practice revenues, according to 2011 IRS 990. By comparison, at BC highest compensated employees include Spaziani (football) $1.1m, Donahue $1.0m, and York $0.5m. Jim Boeheim garnered $2.2m at Syracuse and Mike Krzyzewski scored $10.5m at Duke. These amounts include base compensation, bonuses and incentives, deferred compensation, and nontaxable benefits.
Andy, your silence is deafening.
http://collegebasketball.rivals.com/content.asp?CID=1137865
Hard not to laugh when reading this article, Courtney sure said all the right things to get hired:
Quote"He said 'The Sweet 16 was great; why not Elite Eight?' " Wroblewski said. "He could tell there was talent left."
"When I got to George Mason with Jim Larranaga, we had to teach guys how to win and perform and behave like winners," said Courtney, who was an assistant with the Patriots from 1997-2005. "These guys understand that already. You can spend more time X'ing and O'ing."
Quote from: phillysportsfanhttp://collegebasketball.rivals.com/content.asp?CID=1137865
Hard not to laugh when reading this article, Courtney sure said all the right things to get hired:
Quote"He said 'The Sweet 16 was great; why not Elite Eight?' " Wroblewski said. "He could tell there was talent left."
"When I got to George Mason with Jim Larranaga, we had to teach guys how to win and perform and behave like winners," said Courtney, who was an assistant with the Patriots from 1997-2005. "These guys understand that already. You can spend more time X'ing and O'ing."
The X'ing and O'ing has to start soon, right?
Quote from: mountainredQuote from: phillysportsfanhttp://collegebasketball.rivals.com/content.asp?CID=1137865
Hard not to laugh when reading this article, Courtney sure said all the right things to get hired:
Quote"He said 'The Sweet 16 was great; why not Elite Eight?' " Wroblewski said. "He could tell there was talent left."
"When I got to George Mason with Jim Larranaga, we had to teach guys how to win and perform and behave like winners," said Courtney, who was an assistant with the Patriots from 1997-2005. "These guys understand that already. You can spend more time X'ing and O'ing."
The X'ing and O'ing has to start soon, right?
"NCAA Elite Eight"? LOL, I think meant Ancient Eight is in the Ivy League....
Quote from: Ken711Quote from: mountainredQuote from: phillysportsfanhttp://collegebasketball.rivals.com/content.asp?CID=1137865
Hard not to laugh when reading this article, Courtney sure said all the right things to get hired:
Quote"He said 'The Sweet 16 was great; why not Elite Eight?' " Wroblewski said. "He could tell there was talent left."
"When I got to George Mason with Jim Larranaga, we had to teach guys how to win and perform and behave like winners," said Courtney, who was an assistant with the Patriots from 1997-2005. "These guys understand that already. You can spend more time X'ing and O'ing."
The X'ing and O'ing has to start soon, right?
"NCAA Elite Eight"? LOL, I think meant Ancient Eight is in the Ivy League....
Also from the article: "Unlike a handful of coaches taking over a program, Courtney doesn't need to turn a losing culture into a winning one."
Unfortunatley, his successor will.
Quote from: mountainredQuote from: Ken711Quote from: mountainredQuote from: phillysportsfanhttp://collegebasketball.rivals.com/content.asp?CID=1137865
Hard not to laugh when reading this article, Courtney sure said all the right things to get hired:
Quote"He said 'The Sweet 16 was great; why not Elite Eight?' " Wroblewski said. "He could tell there was talent left."
"When I got to George Mason with Jim Larranaga, we had to teach guys how to win and perform and behave like winners," said Courtney, who was an assistant with the Patriots from 1997-2005. "These guys understand that already. You can spend more time X'ing and O'ing."
The X'ing and O'ing has to start soon, right?
"NCAA Elite Eight"? LOL, I think meant Ancient Eight is in the Ivy League....
Also from the article: "Unlike a handful of coaches taking over a program, Courtney doesn't need to turn a losing culture into a winning one."
Seems he did just the opposite.
Quote from: Jeff Hopkins '82Quote from: mountainredQuote from: Ken711Quote from: mountainredQuote from: phillysportsfanhttp://collegebasketball.rivals.com/content.asp?CID=1137865
Hard not to laugh when reading this article, Courtney sure said all the right things to get hired:
Quote"He said 'The Sweet 16 was great; why not Elite Eight?' " Wroblewski said. "He could tell there was talent left."
"When I got to George Mason with Jim Larranaga, we had to teach guys how to win and perform and behave like winners," said Courtney, who was an assistant with the Patriots from 1997-2005. "These guys understand that already. You can spend more time X'ing and O'ing."
The X'ing and O'ing has to start soon, right?
"NCAA Elite Eight"? LOL, I think meant Ancient Eight is in the Ivy League....
Also from the article: "Unlike a handful of coaches taking over a program, Courtney doesn't need to turn a losing culture into a winning one."
Seems he did just the opposite.
I don't buy this. Cornell basketball never had a "winning culture". Cornell lacrosse has a winning culture, which is why the program continues to be solid this year without Pannell and DeLuca and all the other departures. Cornell basketball is a historically mediocre-to-bad program that had one really awesome three-year run.
Cornell basketball had a winning Ivy record for each of Donahue's last 6 years. There is no reason
Cornell can't produce a competitive program. Look at the recent success of some of the other Ivies,
who certainly haven't had a winning tradition.
Quote from: CASCornell basketball had a winning Ivy record for each of Donahue's last 6 years. There is no reason
Cornell can't produce a competitive program. Look at the recent success of some of the other Ivies,
who certainly haven't had a winning tradition.
No, that's true. There's no fundamental reason Cornell can't produce a competitive program, certainly not at the Ivy level. But that's different from acting like they've historically been a successful program.
Quote from: mountainredThe X'ing and O'ing has to start soon, right?
Now they dont have the time.
http://www.thedp.com/article/2014/03/penn-student-arrested-for-one-of-eight-burglaries-in-quad
Penn is giving Cornell a good fight for which basketball team is at a lower point, one of their players was just arrested for burglary
Quote from: Josh '99Quote from: CASCornell basketball had a winning Ivy record for each of Donahue's last 6 years. There is no reason
Cornell can't produce a competitive program. Look at the recent success of some of the other Ivies,
who certainly haven't had a winning tradition.
No, that's true. There's no fundamental reason Cornell can't produce a competitive program, certainly not at the Ivy level. But that's different from acting like they've historically been a successful program.
The team Courtney inherited knew only Ivy titles; now there isn't a player left who remembers an Ivy winning record. Harvard's basketball history was even worse than ours until Tommy decided the AI was more of a suggestion than a rule. Harvard now has a culture of winning and they expect to win every Ivy game they play. Team cultures have four year lifespans.
Once upon a time, I would have been very happy to have a program like Penn in basketball. Now that we may have it, I don't want it.
Quote from: mountainredTeam cultures have four year lifespans.
Thank you for this. Without glossing over how full the collapse has been, can we at least acknowledge that Donohue left Cornell just as the best senior class in Cornell history was graduating? There were some good players left on the team, and they had a history of success, but that success was due mostly to people who were no longer going to be playing basketball for Cornell. There was no team culture of winning. There were better players, so the team won.
Quote from: ugarteQuote from: mountainredTeam cultures have four year lifespans.
Thank you for this. Without glossing over how full the collapse has been, can we at least acknowledge that Donohue left Cornell just as the best senior class in Cornell history was graduating? There were some good players left on the team, and they had a history of success, but that success was due mostly to people who were no longer going to be playing basketball for Cornell. There was no team culture of winning. There were better players, so the team won.
Materialist!
Quote from: ugarteQuote from: mountainredTeam cultures have four year lifespans.
Thank you for this. Without glossing over how full the collapse has been, can we at least acknowledge that Donohue left Cornell just as the best senior class in Cornell history was graduating? There were some good players left on the team, and they had a history of success, but that success was due mostly to people who were no longer going to be playing basketball for Cornell. There was no team culture of winning. There were better players, so the team won.
We are probably way past the beating a dead horse stage, but is anyone not acknowledging that the Class of 2010 was the best senior class in Cornell basketball history? There's a pretty good argument that three of the five best players in school history were in that class.
I completely agree that the team culture when Courtney took over as built by guys who were about to graduate. Still, guys like 'ski, Wire and Peck expected to win and there was the opportunity to maintain some of that. But, team cultures are fragile and can turnover quickly. Our has and the next Cornell basketball coach will have to start from scratch at instilling a winning attitude.