Quinnipiac has, arguably, the best small/medium rink and facility in college hockey, the $53 million TD Bank Sports Center it shares with a basketball gym (one concourse, separate arenas). Seating is comfortable not cramped. Lighting is excellent. It feels bigger (seats) than it is. Maybe this is one of the reasons Quinnipiac has done so well after playing in a crappy town rink until 2007, with netting on the sides. So which is the best ECAC rink and why? Cornell fans love the intimacy of Lynah, its history, and the ability of the fans to be on top of the action and lend vocal support; the recent addition of new lockers for men and women vastly improves the facility for players without affecting how Lynah feels to diehard fans.
[b]
ECAC rink (year built) Capacity [/b]
Brown, Meehan Auditorium (1962) 3,100
Clarkson, Cheel Arena (1991) 3,000
Colgate, Starr Rink (1959) 2,246 due to be replaced
Cornell Lynah Rink (1957) 4,267 best college hockey atmospheree
Dartmouth, Thompson Arena (1975) 4,500 second largest in ECAC
Harvard, Bright Center (1956/1979) 2,850 low odds view is blocked by fan in seat in front of you
Princeton, Hobey Baker Rink (1923) 2,092 oldest by far, fewest seats
Quinnipiac, TD Bank Sports Center (2007) 3,386 newest; great modern rink; amenities
Rensselaer, Houston Field House (1949) 4,780 seats most, fascinating venue
St. Lawrence, Appleton Arena (1951) 3,000 decent size for small school rink built 6 years after WW II
Union, Frank L. Messa Rink (1975) 2,225 intriguing design (ice sheet, bleachers set inside geodesic dome)
Yale, Ingalls Rink (1958) 3,500 famous architect Eero Saarinen
The poll groups a field of others: Union's Messa Rink is a fascinating small school design (and better sight lines than Princeton's similarly sized (2100-2200 seats) Hobey Baker Rink). Clarkson and St Lawrence, eh. Ditto Brown and Meehan. Dartmouth's Thompson is big but impersonal. Bright Center is unmemorable and not that big (except compared to fan turnout). Colgate's Starr Rink (1959) is due to to be replaced and maybe the new facility will sput Colgate to somewhat higher levels of hockey achievement.
The three rinks that matter are Cornell, Quinnipiac and Yale. Quinnipiac is the future of college hockey rinks with great seating for fans who aren't students and a roomy feeling for all. Plus a corporate not alumni name on the building. You need to ride a bus to get the to the hilltop facility which means students often decamp after 2nd period to get an early start on parties. (I believe Q's plan is to build dorms there, too, which means they'll need to ride a bus to class. One more college in a non-urban setting that still has to split up its campus.)
Cornell made the Lynah experience vastly better with the addition of Bartels Hall and the concourses connecting the two so you can move around between periods, the bump-up in seating to get over 4,000, and the locker facilities that are first class for both men's and women's teams. Other players rave about the experience of playing in Lynah after they've played and left, especially if they left with a W. The roof is too low and as video/TV becomes more important, Cornell has to figure out better camera placement.
I love the Yale Whale so long as it someone else's facility. It can never be expanded for more seating. It's too loud. "Lux et Veritas" as applied to Ingalls translated to, "No Luxuries, Ain't That the Truth, So Pee Before You Come to the Rink." Now there are better facilities one floor down.
I can't get excited about the Brown, Clarkson, Dartmouth, Harvard, or St Lawrence facilities. Though 4,500 seats for an indoor facility at Dartmouth is impressive. RPI's Houston Field House is the opposite of Lynah - almost too much cubic footage for the facility. Colgate is another non-exciting venue but the proposed new facility could go a long way toward helping attract better players. We *want* more schools playing competetive hockey in our league.
Baker Rink is a gem that's so historic Princeton never will raze it but it really ought to be 1.5X as big. Recruits see it and think they're playing for Groton or Hotchkiss. Union's Messa Rink feels just the right size for Union, though if they keep doing well, they're going to be clamoring for more seats.
Appleton. Second most beautiful rink after Matthews.
Quote from: TrotskyAppleton. Second most beautiful rink after Matthews.
Both Appleton and Cheel, polar opposites but strong in their own way, should be on the list before a dump like Houston.
Quinnipiac has upper classman dorms across from the rink that are damn near luxuary apartments! My daughter lived up there for two years
Quote from: jtwcornell91Quote from: TrotskyAppleton. Second most beautiful rink after Matthews.
Both Appleton and Cheel, polar opposites but strong in their own way, should be on the list before a dump like Houston.
Appleton is a classic, but I always feel a bit like I'm in church. Don't like the fans too much. Messa reminds me of it, but I like the fans even less.
When was the last time you were at Houston? The renovations, particularly un-blacking the end windows, really opened up the place. Even so, it's still a bit of a cavern, like Thompson.
Cheel, however, just sucks. Too bright, sucks up sound, awful color palette. The fans redeem it. Only Meehan and Starr are worse, in my opinion.
Q? Great rink, awful ECHL atmosphere. "Let's get ready to rumble!"
Like the Whale. Love Hobey Baker, particularly the gallery, but it's small. Like Bright, but, yes, it's a bit weirdly sloped.
Lynah? Perhaps the poll should have been best
other ECAC rink. Although, I am of the opinion (running for cover) that the renovations were... not for the best. The Pep Band, in particular, has been shoved into an awkward place. And I miss my leaning rail, dammit!
Would you rather play in a refurb'ed barn or a state of the art facility? QU's rink and complex are impressive. I've sat in the seats and the luxury box section and the only better place I've been is BU's rink.
Quote from: rep2Would you rather play in a refurb'ed barn or a state of the art facility? QU's rink and complex are impressive. I've sat in the seats and the luxury box section and the only better place I've been is BU's rink.
Yeah, I thought about mentioning that. Agganis is amazing. It might not be a loud rink, but it is a fantastic place to watch a hockey game. Every seat is good.
Quote from: Scersk '97Lynah? Perhaps the poll should have been best other ECAC rink. Although, I am of the opinion (running for cover) that the renovations were... not for the best. The Pep Band, in particular, has been shoved into an awkward place. And I miss my leaning rail, dammit!
The best thing (for me) about the renovations is that we got to consolidate our seats in Section C. But I definitely miss having the concourse behind the seats inside the building.
Quote from: Kyle RoseQuote from: rep2Would you rather play in a refurb'ed barn or a state of the art facility? QU's rink and complex are impressive. I've sat in the seats and the luxury box section and the only better place I've been is BU's rink.
Yeah, I thought about mentioning that. Agganis is amazing. It might not be a loud rink, but it is a fantastic place to watch a hockey game. Every seat is good.
BU did a nice job with the third stab at a rink in the Ken Dryden-to-present era that works well for hockey, hoops (sort of), stage shows, convocations, etcetera, plus the luxury boxes that are part of sports now. Given how expensive land is in Boston, BU had to make one facility do multiple things. Plus it put a student rec center next door so as not to make it like only jocks were getting nice facilities.
Yes, Agganis is pretty amazing. Baker is beautiful. Meehan would be a perfectly fine rink if it filled up with loud rowdy students.
Obviously, Lynah will always be my favorite, though not at all due to the facilities. The banners do something for me.
As far as the renovations... I loved my leaning rail when I had seats on the 14th row of B, but it's nice to fit more people in the rink without destroying the feel.
Bright... meh. Too bright. Feels too roomy with the giant concourse around the seats. Even when Lynah had a concourse, it didn't feel like Bright does to me. Also, the HD jumbotron and arena rock don't help.
Quote from: rep2Would you rather play in a refurb'ed barn or a state of the art facility?
Play? Cheel > Walker by a factor of ten.
Watch? Walker > Cheel by a factor of ten thousand.
Quote from: BMacAlso, the HD jumbotron and arena rock don't help.
This is the agony of our age -- the reduction of all public space to the lowest slack-jawed denominator. I'm sure some Harvard MBA asshole did a study that showed if people are inundated with jock jams they buy .00001% more Doritos. Fuck that guy and the whole grasping, jaded mindset he represents.
Quote from: TrotskyQuote from: BMacAlso, the HD jumbotron and arena rock don't help.
This is the agony of our age -- the reduction of all public space to the lowest slack-jawed denominator. I'm sure some Harvard MBA asshole did a study that showed if people are inundated with jock jams they buy .00001% more Doritos. Fuck that guy and the whole grasping, jaded mindset he represents.
Redundancy alert. Early in second sentence.
Quote from: billhowardThe three rinks that matter are Cornell, Quinnipiac and Yale. Quinnipiac is the future of college hockey rinks with great seating for fans who aren't students and a roomy feeling for all. Plus a corporate not alumni name on the building. You need to ride a bus to get the to the hilltop facility which means students often decamp after 2nd period to get an early start on parties. (I believe Q's plan is to build dorms there, too, which means they'll need to ride a bus to class. One more college in a non-urban setting that still has to split up its campus.)
They already have dorms on the campus with the rink. Freshmen and sophomores live on the campus with the academic buildings and juniors and seniors live on the campus with the athletic buildings. There's a shuttle bus that runs between the two every 15 minutes or so. Very few students live off campus. Also, did you honestly expect a significant number of Cornell fans to vote for a rink other than Lynah?
When we last visited by day there was mostly mud plus the TD Bank facility; didn't know the dorms were in place. By night when it's freezing cold and we're headed to the game, I wasn't that curious to look around. Quinnipiac is a place where a monorail would be more in keeping with the campus environment.
I *hoped* some respondents would see there are better rinks than Lynah. Just not better environments, especially if you're the home team and its fans. At some point in life you stop and decide the Four Seasons view of the Pacific has some advantages over the pup tent view from a state park.
Quote from: billhowardI *hoped* some respondents would see there are better rinks than Lynah. Just not better environments, especially if you're the home team and its fans. At some point in life you stop and decide the Four Seasons view of the Pacific has some advantages over the pup tent view from a state park.
That's a purely subjective quesiton though. I would much rather watch a hockey game in an intimate old rink with low ceilings and atmosphere than in a brand new alace with big seats and wide concourses. And not everyone decides that they prefer the Four Seasons. it depends what you like and what you value.
I'll admit I voted for the Whale. It's distinctive but still beautiful (I love the wood planks that make up the roof sheathing), intimate unlike huge new arenaplexes, and I've enjoyed every game I've seen there... meaning I haven't been there since 2006 or so. :-)
I've only been to three places: Lynah, Hobey Baker and the Whale. Lynah Faithful aside, I really like Hobey Baker the best.
Quote from: Kyle RoseI'll admit I voted for the Whale. It's distinctive but still beautiful (I love the wood planks that make up the roof sheathing), intimate unlike huge new arenaplexes, and I've enjoyed every game I've seen there... meaning I haven't been there since 2006 or so. :-)
Agree. Still looks like it could have been designed and built yesterday and not 50+ years ago. It's actually a bird, not a whale, although to me it always looks like a turtle.
No mention of Thompson either. Probably the best sightlines I've seen anywhere. Full bowl all the way around, steep incline, good seating, open concourse around the top. Amenities are not stellar, but I'm still a fan.
Quote from: CowbellGuyNo mention of Thompson either. Probably the best sightlines I've seen anywhere. Full bowl all the way around, steep incline, good seating, open concourse around the top. Amenities are not stellar, but I'm still a fan.
They
were the first building in the ECAC to serve nachos.
Quote from: CowbellGuyNo mention of Thompson either. Probably the best sightlines I've seen anywhere. Full bowl all the way around, steep incline, good seating, open concourse around the top. Amenities are not stellar, but I'm still a fan.
One of the few ECAC arenas (Appleton and Q's being the others) I have not been to.
I've heard it's cold in there.
Quote from: Kyle RoseQuote from: CowbellGuyNo mention of Thompson either. Probably the best sightlines I've seen anywhere. Full bowl all the way around, steep incline, good seating, open concourse around the top. Amenities are not stellar, but I'm still a fan.
One of the few ECAC arenas (Appleton and Q's being the others) I have not been to.
I've heard it's cold in there.
Including cold visually: Thompson is lots of exposed concrete and metal, metal seats. No wood to soften the feel, nor championship banners. Good of Dartmouth to have made it that big, though, and with lots of room for standing room should the occasion arise. The old Dartmouth rink I think was 2000 or less. Imagine Hobey Baker size without the charm and chain link fencing for plexiglass.
Legend has it that a Cornell player in the early '70s was tired of being taunted by Dartmouth fans who clasped their fingers through the chain link and yelled unkind words; coming up ice he took a check near the boards and as he struggled to maintain his balance, his stick blade scraped along the fencing and did a number on a dozen pairs of knuckles.
Quote from: CowbellGuyNo mention of Thompson either. Probably the best sightlines I've seen anywhere. Full bowl all the way around, steep incline, good seating, open concourse around the top. Amenities are not stellar, but I'm still a fan.
I thought of Thompson as a modern Lynah. Too much concrete but a great layout
Quote from: billhowardIncluding cold visually: Thompson is lots of exposed concrete and metal, metal seats. No wood to soften the feel, nor championship banners.
When I hear "cold visually" and "lots of exposed concrete and metal" I think of one
bunker place:
(http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2007/01/27/sports/27arena.1.600.jpg)
Look at those brutally hideous walls. By comparison, Thompson has a similar seating layout, but I like it better, probably because of the classic-era waffled ceiling, non-blinding lighting, and lack of luxury box crap. But mostly because it doesn't look like a sub-basement fallout shelter.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/gumprecht/6830124007/
Comparing the two side-by-side, I also like the light-green rather than the bright, blue seats. The blue seats contrast too much with the ice. When there are empty seats, the blue draws my eye to them more than the lighter shade of green.
I will say that the outside of Corporately named rink at whatever Bank Trust Fund Center has a more visually pleasing EXTERIOR than every other facility in the league, except Yale. So at least you have that to look at while you're sitting in traffic trying to access the only road in or out.
I can top all of your concrete bunkers: Levien Gym (Columbia basketball) is the worst sporting arena that I've ever visited. Horrible place.
Quote from: BenI can top all of your concrete bunkers: Levien Gym (Columbia basketball) is the worst sporting arena that I've ever visited. Horrible place.
Guess you never went to a basketball game in Barton Hall. Mind you. I only went to one, but that was enough.
Quote from: Jeff Hopkins '82Quote from: BenI can top all of your concrete bunkers: Levien Gym (Columbia basketball) is the worst sporting arena that I've ever visited. Horrible place.
Guess you never went to a basketball game in Barton Hall. Mind you. I only went to one, but that was enough.
OTOH it is awesome for track.
Quote from: Jeff Hopkins '82Quote from: BenI can top all of your concrete bunkers: Levien Gym (Columbia basketball) is the worst sporting arena that I've ever visited. Horrible place.
Guess you never went to a basketball game in Barton Hall. Mind you. I only went to one, but that was enough.
I love the inside of Barton Hall: I am always awed by its size. I think the only room I've ever been in that's larger is in the Udvar-Hazy museum at Dulles.
I do believe Barton would be a terrible place to watch a basketball game, though. The lighting is awful, and the room is probably 4-5 times as large as a basketball arena really needs to be.
Quote from: Kyle RoseQuote from: Jeff Hopkins '82Quote from: BenI can top all of your concrete bunkers: Levien Gym (Columbia basketball) is the worst sporting arena that I've ever visited. Horrible place.
Guess you never went to a basketball game in Barton Hall. Mind you. I only went to one, but that was enough.
I love the inside of Barton Hall: I am always awed by its size. I think the only room I've ever been in that's larger is in the Udvar-Hazy museum at Dulles.
I do believe Barton would be a terrible place to watch a basketball game, though. The lighting is awful, and the room is probably 4-5 times as large as a basketball arena really needs to be.
And they wheeled in temporary "high-school" bleachers into the middle of the big, empty space.
I don't know how anyone's answer is anything but the Whale.
Quote from: Thomas LarsonI don't know how anyone's answer is anything but the Whale.
Because there is no universal definition of "best".
Quote from: Thomas LarsonI don't know how anyone's answer is anything but the Whale.
At this moment, I agree. Nice rink, and the national champions play there.
Quote from: Jeff Hopkins '82And they wheeled in temporary "high-school" bleachers into the middle of the big, empty space.
Yet, somehow, the atmosphere was anything but high-school-like; indeed, far less high-school-like than Alberding or whatever they call it. The few games I took in there included some pretty boisterous behavior from the students in the gallery. And, hey, where else can you have a basketball game and employee barbecue in the same room at the same time?
I guess that I just like old, dank things.
Barton Hall was great for basketball, especially in earlier days. I guess one has to discount a little for my original child's impression.
I spent a sizable part of my life in Barton, from the '48-'49 season through '63-'64 (much less after returning to town in 1972). I went to all basketball games; freshmen basketball games, which were usually before the varsity; all wresting meets (the NCAAs and AAU championships were in Barton); track meets, including the Heptagonals, which were always at Cornell. I was in there for tennis practice, late in the evening, before the weather cooperated (had a key to Barton then for that purpose) and pickup basketball games.
But about basketball, it actually was a pretty good setup: the large stands on the south, the end zone and balcony seats on the west, and smaller stands (smaller than the south ones) set up on the north side and the east end. Those north and east seats at that time were more of a permanent type, not rolled in, although able to be taken down for track meets and multiple wresting mats. With big crowds, this made for a nicely enclosed area even with the large overall space. I usually sat in the top row of the west seats behind the basket with my high school, then college friends; the band, which was great in those days, too, was lower down in those same stands.
And there were some games with pretty large crowds. I remember one great game against Stanford in the 1950-51 season that was packed and raucous even though during the winter break (Cornell won); and also games against the Jack Molinas Columbia teams of that era. And, of course, the Princeton games with Bradley some years later were big.
I think the atmosphere was actually a lot better than Bartels,
When you can put 7500 or 9000 people inside Barton for basketball, the fans and players (home team at least) can forget the cavernous atmosphere. If we don't have another Sweet Sixteen year, the capacity of Bartels is fine.
Quote from: billhowardWhen you can put 7500 or 9000 people inside Barton for basketball, the fans and players (home team at least) can forget the cavernous atmosphere. If we don't have another Sweet Sixteen year, the capacity of Bartels is fine.
Barton had a much more big-time feel than Bartels.
Cornell tops Bradley-led Princeton at Barton Hall, January 16, 1965.
I doubt attendance was anything close to that during my tenure. In fact, the moved the basketball games to 5:00 so more people could attend and then come over to Lynah. If they went head to head, hockey drew the fans.
Quote from: Jeff Hopkins '82I doubt attendance was anything close to that during my tenure. In fact, the moved the basketball games to 5:00 so more people could attend and then come over to Lynah. If they went head to head, hockey drew the fans.
Same here.
I only went to one basketball game at Barton in 4 years in the early 80's, and it was... sparse. They had a shot from center court shot contest. The first ticket called was two seats to my left and they didn't respond, so they redrew and my seat was picked. (I gave the shot to my friend who hit iron twice. I think the prize was a Hyandai or something.)
I would say the actual (turnstile, not sale) attendance at that game was 200. In Barton that felt like the mapping of the Apollo landing sites on the moon. You could actually shout across the court and be answered by a fan standing on the other side.
Quote from: George64Cornell tops Bradley-led Princeton at Barton Hall, January 16, 1965.
I remember that well. My father and brother came down from Syr to see the game with me. We went to dinner and about 1/2 hour before tip-off they closed the doors, it was packed, and we never got in.:`-(
Quote from: George64Cornell tops Bradley-led Princeton at Barton Hall, January 16, 1965.
Great find! Here's the article on the game from the Daily Sun archive (http://cdsun.library.cornell.edu/cgi-bin/cornell?a=d&d=CDS19650118.2.2&e=-------en-20--1--txt-IN-----). "9,000 fans were packing themselves into every possible spot in Barton Hall" to break the previous record of 8,279 set against Syracuse in 1952, and more than 3,000 were turned away. Bradley scored 40 of Princeton's 69 points including 14 free throws, but shot only 13 of 38 from the field. That guy was pretty good.
Quote from: TrotskyI would say the actual (turnstile, not sale) attendance at that game was 200. In Barton that felt like the mapping of the Apollo landing sites on the moon.
Nice, painting with words. You been saving up with this line, or it just moved from brain to fingers reflexively?
Quote from: Jim HylaQuote from: George64Cornell tops Bradley-led Princeton at Barton Hall, January 16, 1965.
I remember that well. My father and brother came down from Syr to see the game with me. We went to dinner and about 1/2 hour before tip-off they closed the doors, it was packed, and we never got in.:`-(
I did get in and sat on the floor. There certainly was excitement around the program in that era. Hockey hadn't turned the corner upward and some reasonably big names, like Bradley, came to town. I agree that with the configuration that Chuck accurately described it felt the appropriate size for the crowd.
Great pic, Thanks. Love the photo caption:
QuoteMost of this mob arrived between the time the doors were opened...and the time they were closed...
Some people musta found other ways in. Maybe the tunnel from Teagle. ::doh::
Quote from: billhowardQuote from: TrotskyI would say the actual (turnstile, not sale) attendance at that game was 200. In Barton that felt like the mapping of the Apollo landing sites on the moon.
Nice, painting with words. You been saving up with this line, or it just moved from brain to fingers reflexively?
The latter. He does it all the time, even on chat. Usually his style is more minimalist.::rock::