Week of April 8, Cornell is second to Maryland in both polls.
Coaches' poll 4/8/13 (http://insidelacrosse.com/rankpoll/d1usila/2013-04-08)
1 Maryland, 194 points, 6 first place votes
2 Cornell, 190 points, 3 first place votes
3 North Carolina, 173
4 Denver, 169
5 Notre Dame, 153
Syracuse is 7, Princeton 10, Penn 14, Yale 15, and the Virginia team we struggled to beat is now out of the top 20.
Nike/Inside Lacrosse poll 4/8/13) (http://insidelacrosse.com/rankpoll/d1media/2013-04-08)
1 Maryland, 456 points, 19 first place votes
2 Cornell, 435 points, 4 first place votes
3 Denver
4 Notre Dame
5 Loyola
Syracuse is 7, Princeton 9, Penn is 16, Yale is 17 and Virginia is also out of the IL top 20.
Maryland and Cornell are the only one-loss teams in the top 20. Three top 10 teams have three losses and Duke has four.
Karnak the Kessenich Top 20 (http://insidelacrosse.com/news/2013/04/08/quints-top-20-and-analysis-april-8)
The Inside Lacrosse columnist has Cornell struggling to hold onto No. 5 in his poll.
1 Maryland ("wins over Loyola and Duke as significant resume ammunition" )
2 Duke ("The Devils are hot now" )
3 North Carolina ("The Heels have won five straight ... attack is as good as advertised" )
4 Denver ("The Pioneers are 9-2 with wins over Duke, Lehigh, Penn, and Ohio State" ... snuck past Bellarmine. Unimpressive." )
5 Cornell ("The Big Red (10-1) have only beaten two teams in my Top 20 — Yale and Penn. A two-goal win over Harvard by a 14-12 score has me questioning their defense, which has given up 11 goals to Hobart, 11 to UVa, 10 to Yale and 12 to Harvard." ) Rather than mention the juggernaut on attack, he types in their stats: "Rob Pannell has 59 points. Steve Mock has 37 goals. Connor Buczek (17, 13), Max Van Bourgondien (19, 6), Matt Donovan (14, 6) and Connor English (11, 6) have the Big Red shooting 32%."
Dump-on-the-Yankees week continues with thoughts on No. 9 Princeton: "The Tigers are 6-3 with losses to UNC, Penn and Syracuse, surrendering 16, 11 and 13 goals against in those setbacks. Wins over Hofstra, Hopkins and Yale doesn't scream at-large. Saturday's loss to Cuse once again exposed the Tigers liabilities on defense. Sliding to non-threats, while creating offense for the opponent is a recipe for disaster. I see this trend every week: Why are teams sliding upfield to non-threats while leaving more dangerous men open in the slot?" [edit add: You mean doing like Notre Dame defenders did in 2010, staying home in OT vs. Duke and watching the faceoff guy sail in to win the national championship?]
Among teams 11-20, he devotes twice as much space to No. 19 Johns Hopkins, recent loser to Albany. Wonder why all the ink?
Never mind that Duke struggled to beat Harvard as well. The guy is a seriously biased loudmouth. But why waste time worrying about his opinion. The selection criteria has become so tilted towards objective factors, which by the way I don't really like, that it doesn't matter what someone like Quint thinks.
Accusations of bias are boring. The fact is that we've been nervous about Cornell's close games and collapse against Bucknell too. Some polls place Cornell at #2, which is great, but it seems to be a function of parity, not Cornell standing out. They keep losing faceoffs and the constant lack of possession is putting a strain on the defense.
Neither a national title or a first round NCAA loss would be much of a shock.
Quote from: ugarteAccusations of bias are boring. The fact is that we've been nervous about Cornell's close games and collapse against Bucknell too. Some polls place Cornell at #2, which is great, but it seems to be a function of parity, not Cornell standing out. They keep losing faceoffs and the constant lack of possession is putting a strain on the defense.
Neither a national title or a first round NCAA loss would be much of a shock.
Agreed.
Wednesday's tilt against Syracuse will tell a lot.
http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t147/Coelacanth64/TheTeamTSNBNamed_100.jpg
::scared::
Quote from: ugarteAccusations of bias are boring. The fact is that we've been nervous about Cornell's close games and collapse against Bucknell too. Some polls place Cornell at #2, which is great, but it seems to be a function of parity, not Cornell standing out. They keep losing faceoffs and the constant lack of possession is putting a strain on the defense.
Neither a national title or a first round NCAA loss would be much of a shock.
I'm sorry that I bored you. I was not accusing him of anything. Just stating my opinion that I think he is biased. An accusation assumes that I think he is doing something bad whereas all I was saying was that I couldn't care what he says and that it doesn't matter what he says given the more "supposedly" objective criteria these days.
Agree that any result is possible this year and that goes for all the top teams.
Quote from: ugarteAccusations of bias are boring. The fact is that we've been nervous about Cornell's close games and collapse against Bucknell too. Some polls place Cornell at #2, which is great, but it seems to be a function of parity, not Cornell standing out. They keep losing faceoffs and the constant lack of possession is putting a strain on the defense. Neither a national title or a first round NCAA loss would be much of a shock.
Hey, everyone needs a chance to vent. especially when it's easy pickings. Kessenich columns are low-hanging fruit.
[edit add:] Notice you never see QK and the Lax Swami in the same room at the same time. These people believe if a shot past the end line doesn't wind up in the Chesapeake, it's not real lacrosse.
Quote from: RedscoreQuote from: ugarteAccusations of bias are boring. The fact is that we've been nervous about Cornell's close games and collapse against Bucknell too. Some polls place Cornell at #2, which is great, but it seems to be a function of parity, not Cornell standing out. They keep losing faceoffs and the constant lack of possession is putting a strain on the defense.
Neither a national title or a first round NCAA loss would be much of a shock.
I'm sorry that I bored you. I was not accusing him of anything. Just stating my opinion that I think he is biased. An accusation assumes that I think he is doing something bad whereas all I was saying was that I couldn't care what he says and that it doesn't matter what he says given the more "supposedly" objective criteria these days.
Agree that any result is possible this year and that goes for all the top teams.
Apology accepted. Let's not make this a habit, though.
To quote my favorite cheer from the Cornell-UVa game in Foxboro: "Suck it, Quint!"
Quote from: billhowardNotice you never see QK and the Lax Swami in the same room at the same time.
Swami always leaves if Quint arrives. There's a backstory involving Ms. Bimbette... Nuff said.
Quote from: IvymanQuote from: billhowardNotice you never see QK and the Lax Swami in the same room at the same time.
Swami always leaves if Quint arrives. There's a backstory involving Ms. Bimbette... Nuff said.
That is not Nuff said. Don't drop a bomb like that and walk away.
Wow, polls are screwy this week.
We are #7
Maryland #4
Meet your new #1....Denver
Quote from: margolismWow, polls are screwy this week.
We are #7
Maryland #4
Meet your new #1....Denver
West coast bias.
USILA Coaches Poll via http://insidelacrosse.com/rankpoll/d1usila/2013-04-15
#1 Maryland loses to #15 drops 3 positions. #15 up 4 positions.
#2 Cornell loses to #7 drops 5 positions. #7 up 2 positions
More first place votes for the second place team
Rank Team (record) Votes Firsts
1 University of Denver (10 - 2) 193 3
2 University N Carolina (9 - 3) 191 5
3 University Notre Dame (9 - 2) 175 2
4 University of Maryland (8 - 2) 162
[b]5 Syracuse University (9 - 2) 161[/b]
6 Duke University (10 - 4) 155
[b]7 Cornell University (10 - 2) 142[/b]
8 Loyola University (9 - 3) 133
9 Penn State University (9 - 3) 116
10 University at Albany (9 - 3) 103
11 Johns Hopkins (7 - 4) 95
12 Ohio State University (8 - 3) 71
[b]12 Princeton University (7 - 4) 71[/b]
[b]12 Yale University (7 - 3) 71
15 Bucknell University (10 - 3) 70[/b]
16 Lehigh University (9 - 4) 68
17 Drexel University (9 - 3) 54
[b]18 University Pennsylvania (6 - 4) 29[/b]
19 Villanova University (5 - 6) 16
20 Hofstra University (7 - 5) 9
Cornell and opponents bolded
We've played 5 top 20 teams and are 2-2 now with Princeton to come. Virginia was top 20 when we played them; doesn't count now. We should have played Albany ("University at Albany" in the poll text) not Siena. Army though not in top 20 would have been a better NYS option.
Nike/Coaces poll http://insidelacrosse.com/rankpoll/d1media/2013-04-15
1 Denver
2 Notre Dame
3 Syracuse
4 Maryland
5 N Carolina
6 Cornell
7 Duke
8 Loyola
9 Penn State
10 Albany
Quote from: margolismWow, polls are screwy this week.
We are #7
Maryland #4
Meet your new #1....Denver
My initial reaction was to snort and blame it on media love for Tierney, but looking at it a little more, they're 10-2 against a tough schedule (their opponents thus far are a combined 83-53), with wins over Duke and defending champs Loyola; their only losses are to 9-3 Penn State (Tambroni has them coming along well) and to Notre Dame in overtime. It pisses me off to say it, but they're pretty good.
That being said, Laxpower's rankings still have Maryland and Cornell 1-2.
Quote from: Josh '99Quote from: margolismWow, polls are screwy this week.
We are #7
Maryland #4
Meet your new #1....Denver
My initial reaction was to snort and blame it on media love for Tierney, but looking at it a little more, they're 10-2 against a tough schedule (their opponents thus far are a combined 83-53), with wins over Duke and defending champs Loyola; their only losses are to 9-3 Penn State (Tambroni has them coming along well) and to Notre Dame in overtime. It pisses me off to say it, but they're pretty good.
That being said, Laxpower's rankings still have Maryland and Cornell 1-2.
The same Laxpower computer ranking has our final two RS opponents Brown at #23 and Princeton at #5: http://www.laxpower.com/update13/binmen/rating01.php
Quote from: TrotskyQuote from: margolismWow, polls are screwy this week.
We are #7
Maryland #4
Meet your new #1....Denver
West coast bias.
Nope. ACC bias. As usual.
Having lost to #5 and #15, a ranking in the neighborhood of 6-7 doesn't feel like an affront.
Quote from: ugarteHaving lost to #5 and #15, a ranking in the neighborhood of 6-7 doesn't feel like an affront.
No, it doesn't. But comparatively speaking, Maryland is over-ranked.
And rankings don't look at the losses more qualitatively:
Both one goal losses
Loss to Buckness was without leading scorer playing
Quote from: margolismAnd rankings don't look at the losses more qualitatively:
Both one goal losses
Loss to Buckness was without leading scorer playing
Good points. Except leading goal-scorer Mock played vs. Syracuse and was held to one goal. Syracuse is trending upward and at least for last week's meeting, shut down our attack reasonably after Q1. I think we still have as good a shot as anyone to do well in the tournament.
Yikes! Hobart over Syracuse tonight, 13-12.
Quote from: Al DeFlorioYikes! Hobart over Syracuse tonight, 13-12.
Does this hurt or help our RPI? ::wtf::
Quote from: SwampyQuote from: Al DeFlorioYikes! Hobart over Syracuse tonight, 13-12.
Does this hurt or help our RPI? ::wtf::
Answered my own question. We now rank fourth (http://www.laxpower.com/update13/binmen/rating01.php) in RPI. But what was our previous RPI? Ah, here's the answer (http://www.laxmagazine.com/college_men/DI/2012-13/news/041513_bracketology_who_is_in_out_and_on_the_bubble). So Hobart just raised us from #6 to #4. Thanks Statesmen! ::cheer::
Quote from: SwampyQuote from: SwampyQuote from: Al DeFlorioYikes! Hobart over Syracuse tonight, 13-12.
Does this hurt or help our RPI? ::wtf::
Answered my own question. We now rank fourth (http://www.laxpower.com/update13/binmen/rating01.php) in RPI. But what was our previous RPI? Ah, here's the answer (http://www.laxmagazine.com/college_men/DI/2012-13/news/041513_bracketology_who_is_in_out_and_on_the_bubble). So Hobart just raised us from #6 to #4. Thanks Statesmen! ::cheer::
The story projects us the 8-seed hosting Loyola. Penn State would be seeded ahead of us. It predicts the last four out as Bucknell, Ohio State, Princeton, amd Johns Hopkins. No other Ivies make the playoffs. Obviously a lot can happen in the season's last two weeks, but if we're lingering at #8 seed now, a loss anywhere along the way might put us on the road. And Princeton, Penn and Yale have more incentive to win the tournament; it could be their only way in to the NCAAs. First, let's beat Brown Saturday to lock up the Ivy title and home field for the Ivy tournament.
The projected matchups and the QF sites from the bracketology story http://www.laxmagazine.com/college_men/DI/2012-13/news/041513_bracketology_who_is_in_out_and_on_the_bubble
Indianapolis (QF site)
(1) Notre Dame vs. NORTHEAST/Bryant
(8) IVY/Cornell vs. Loyola
College Park
(4) COLONIAL/Penn State vs. Yale
(5) Syracuse vs. PATRIOT/Lehigh
College Park
(3) North Carolina vs. BIG EAST/Villanova
(6) Maryland vs. AMERICA EAST/Albany
Indianapolis
(2) ECAC/Denver vs. METRO ATLANTIC/Marist
(7) Duke vs. Penn
Quote from: billhowardQuote from: SwampyQuote from: SwampyQuote from: Al DeFlorioYikes! Hobart over Syracuse tonight, 13-12.
Does this hurt or help our RPI? ::wtf::
Answered my own question. We now rank fourth (http://www.laxpower.com/update13/binmen/rating01.php) in RPI. But what was our previous RPI? Ah, here's the answer (http://www.laxmagazine.com/college_men/DI/2012-13/news/041513_bracketology_who_is_in_out_and_on_the_bubble). So Hobart just raised us from #6 to #4. Thanks Statesmen! ::cheer::
The story projects us the 8-seed hosting Loyola. Penn State would be seeded ahead of us. It predicts the last four out as Bucknell, Ohio State, Princeton, amd Johns Hopkins. No other Ivies make the playoffs. Obviously a lot can happen in the season's last two weeks, but if we're lingering at #8 seed now, a loss anywhere along the way might put us on the road. And Princeton, Penn and Yale have more incentive to win the tournament; it could be their only way in to the NCAAs. First, let's beat Brown Saturday to lock up the Ivy title and home field for the Ivy tournament.
The projected matchups and the QF sites from the bracketology story http://www.laxmagazine.com/college_men/DI/2012-13/news/041513_bracketology_who_is_in_out_and_on_the_bubble
Indianapolis (QF site)
(1) Notre Dame vs. NORTHEAST/Bryant
(8) IVY/Cornell vs. Loyola
College Park
(4) COLONIAL/Penn State vs. Yale
(5) Syracuse vs. PATRIOT/Lehigh
College Park
(3) North Carolina vs. BIG EAST/Villanova
(6) Maryland vs. AMERICA EAST/Albany
Indianapolis
(2) ECAC/Denver vs. METRO ATLANTIC/Marist
(7) Duke vs. Penn
Terry Foy's bracket at Inside Lacrosse has Cornell playing at Albany.::worry::
Quote from: Al DeFlorioTerry Foy's bracket at Inside Lacrosse has Cornell playing at Albany.::worry::
Ouch. A shot across Cornell's bow about strength of schedule? Why did Cornell pick up Siena? Did Cornell believe Siena was ready for a breakout year (i.e. powerful enough to give us a quality win) with its best player departed after a 2011 NCAA appearance?
All this is just speculation for now as to where Cornell would play.
Quote from: billhowardQuote from: Al DeFlorioTerry Foy's bracket at Inside Lacrosse has Cornell playing at Albany.::worry::
Ouch. A shot across Cornell's bow about strength of schedule? Why did Cornell pick up Siena? Did Cornell believe Siena was ready for a breakout year (i.e. powerful enough to give us a quality win) with its best player departed after a 2011 NCAA appearance?
All this is just speculation for now as to where Cornell would play.
or if we make the tourney.
Quote from: Al DeFlorioYikes! Hobart over Syracuse tonight, 13-12.
USCHO fan forum flashback........oh, the humanity.
That was last year, Jim. Lightning doesn't strike tw-- oops
Given how zany this year has been, I've heard it's called "parity," any of the top teams has a realistic chance of winning or losing on any night, especially as we get into the conference championships and then the tournaments. So, as we saw with Hobart/Cuse, our record could change drastically for better or worse even if we win the Ivy AQ (cf. e.g., Yale v. MD on Saturday). And this will affect seeding when the NC tournament begins.
Although I usually don't like what he has to say, Quint Kessenich (http://insidelacrosse.com/news/2013/04/15/quints-top-20-and-analysis-april-14) was right on the money with his analysis this week. He points out that the Cornell-Syracuse game was "won by a margin of centimeters." In fact, Cornell is just four goals away, in two one-goal games, from being undefeated and ranked #1.
More troubling, he identifies our weaknesses (correctly IMHO): lack of depth at ssdm, a defense that is not lock-down, good but not great goal tending, and a weak second midfield.
Hopefully the long layoff before the Brown game has given the coaching staff time to address some of these weaknesses, although most of them seem to be matters of personnel rather than coaching. Let's hope it doesn't rain on Saturday, and we see improvement in all these areas after what amounts to a week and a half mini-camp!
Quote from: SwampyMore troubling, he identifies our weaknesses (correctly IMHO): lack of depth at ssdm, a defense that is not lock-down, good but not great goal tending, and a weak second midfield.
No comment on the problems with face-offs? That's the biggest problem, I think. In the games that I've seen (not a lot, admittedly), as long as the team can start with possession at even a SMALL disadvantage, the other problems are usually overwhelmed by impressive offensive efficiency. When we aren't winning faceoffs at all, the efficient offensive gets swamped by giving up so many chances.
Quote from: ugarteQuote from: SwampyMore troubling, he identifies our weaknesses (correctly IMHO): lack of depth at ssdm, a defense that is not lock-down, good but not great goal tending, and a weak second midfield.
No comment on the problems with face-offs? That's the biggest problem, I think. In the games that I've seen (not a lot, admittedly), as long as the team can start with possession at even a SMALL disadvantage, the other problems are usually overwhelmed by impressive offensive efficiency. When we aren't winning faceoffs at all, the efficient offensive gets swamped by giving up so many chances.
Not always:
Saves: Hobart 18 (Peter Zonino), Syracuse 7 (Dominic Lamolinara). Shots: Syracuse 46-29.
Faceoffs: Syracuse 20-9. Extra-man opps: Hobart 3-5, Syracuse 1-3. Ground balls: Syracuse 37-28.
Quote from: Jim HylaQuote from: ugarteQuote from: SwampyMore troubling, he identifies our weaknesses (correctly IMHO): lack of depth at ssdm, a defense that is not lock-down, good but not great goal tending, and a weak second midfield.
No comment on the problems with face-offs? That's the biggest problem, I think. In the games that I've seen (not a lot, admittedly), as long as the team can start with possession at even a SMALL disadvantage, the other problems are usually overwhelmed by impressive offensive efficiency. When we aren't winning faceoffs at all, the efficient offensive gets swamped by giving up so many chances.
Not always:
Saves: Hobart 18 (Peter Zonino), Syracuse 7 (Dominic Lamolinara). Shots: Syracuse 46-29. Faceoffs: Syracuse 20-9. Extra-man opps: Hobart 3-5, Syracuse 1-3. Ground balls: Syracuse 37-28.
I wasn't talking about Syracuse or stats in general. I'll highlight the difference-maker in Syracuse - Hobart.
Quote from: ugarteQuote from: SwampyMore troubling, he identifies our weaknesses (correctly IMHO): lack of depth at ssdm, a defense that is not lock-down, good but not great goal tending, and a weak second midfield.
No comment on the problems with face-offs? That's the biggest problem, I think. In the games that I've seen (not a lot, admittedly), as long as the team can start with possession at even a SMALL disadvantage, the other problems are usually overwhelmed by impressive offensive efficiency. When we aren't winning faceoffs at all, the efficient offensive gets swamped by giving up so many chances.
Well, Yale killed us at FO's and we still won by 2. Doug T. & the FO unit currently rank 14th in the country on FO's. So they're a good but not elite unit.
Denver loses to Fairfield in OT (its sixth one-goal game in 2013) and the emperor's reign at the top is done for now. Cornell up slightly to sixth (was seventh) in the USILA poll for 4/22/13 after beating Brown. Syracuse slipping to ninth from fifth after losing to Hobart. Big weekend in the Meadlowlands, Cornell-Princeton 4pm, Syracuse-Notre Dame 6:30. Princeton dismantled Harvard Saturday, remains #12.
USILA POLL 4/22/13 http://insidelacrosse.com/rankpoll/d1usila/2013-04-22
Rank Team (W-L) Votes Firsts
1 University N Carolina (10 - 3) 176 6
2 University Notre Dame (10 - 2) 167 3
3 University of Maryland (9 - 2) 157
4 University of Denver (10 - 3) 151
5 Duke University (11 - 4) 143
[b]6 Cornell University (11 - 2) 138[/b]
7 Loyola University (10 - 3) 130
8 Penn State University (10 - 3) 112
[b]9 Syracuse University (10 - 3) 109[/b]
10 University at Albany (10 - 3) 98
11 Johns Hopkins Un (8 - 4) 84
[b]12 Princeton University (8 - 4) 77[/b]
13 Ohio State University (9 - 3) 66
[b]13 Bucknell University (11 - 3) 66[/b]
[b]15 Yale University (8 - 4) 57[/b]
16 Lehigh University (10 - 4) 55
[b]17 Drexel University (10 - 3) 39[/b]
18 University of Penn (7 - 4) 28
19 Army (8 - 4) 10
20 Fairfield University (8 - 5) 7
Cornell and opponents in boldface.
Nike/Media poll much friendlier, has Cornell at #4 and a first place vote.
Rank Team Points 1st Place Votes
1 Univ of Notre Dame (10 - 2) 408 15
2 Univ of Maryland (9 - 2) 374 2
3 Univ of North Carolina (10 - 3) 368 3
4 Cornell University (11 - 2) 337 1
5 University of Denver (10 - 3) 331
6 Duke University (11 - 4) 320
7 Syracuse University (10 - 3) 308
8 Loyola University (10 - 3) 285
9 Penn State University (10 - 3) 246
10 University at Albany (10 - 3) 201
11 Johns Hopkins Univ (8 - 4) 196
12 Princeton University (8 - 4) 171
13 Ohio State University (9 - 3) 163
14 Lehigh University (10 - 4) 147
15 Yale University (8 - 4) 135
16 Bucknell University (11 - 3) 121
17 Drexel University (10 - 3) 102
18 University of Penn (7 - 4) 55
19 Villanova University (5 - 7) 29
20 Saint Johns University (8 - 4) 22
ALSO RECEIVING VOTES Fairfield University , Army , Towson University , Marist College , Hobart College
The two top 20s show Albany, Army, Lehigh and St John's as nearby top 20 teams we could have played instead of Siena, Colgate, Binghamton or Canisus for a better strength of schedule. At least we know that in hindsight.
The Kessenich Report http://insidelacrosse.com/news/2013/04/22/quints-top-20-and-analysis-april-22 has Cornell seventh, Princeton 12th. The Hopkins alum devotes 246 of the 1,952 words for teams 1-20 in his top 20 analysis on guess-which team and its game?
LaxPower Computer ranking has us second. (http://www.laxpower.com/update13/binmen/rating01.php)
Power POLL SOS RPI QWF TSI
Rank Team Rating Rnk Rnk Rnk Rnk Rnk Records
1 Maryland 99.90 3 4 3 3 2 9- 2- 0
2 Cornell 99.88 6 25 5 23 6 11- 2- 0
3 North Carolina 99.49 1 3 4 4 1 10- 3- 0
4 Johns Hopkins 99.34 11 14 16 15 11 8- 4- 0
5 Loyola 99.08 7 20 9 25 9 10- 3- 0
6 Princeton 98.98 12 9 18 17 12 8- 4- 0
7 Notre Dame 98.65 2 8 2 1 3 10- 2- 0
8 Denver 98.48 4 11 1 2 4 10- 3- 0
9 Yale 98.39 15 5 11 18 7 8- 4- 0
10 Penn State 98.30 8 18 6 9 8 10- 3- 0
11 Duke 98.19 5 15 7 6 5 11- 4- 0
12 Penn 98.15 18 2 14 8 13 7- 4- 0
13 Albany 98.04 10 30 13 12 15 10- 3- 0
14 Syracuse 97.74 9 13 10 5 10 10- 3- 0
15 Bucknell 97.61 13 24 8 7 14 11- 3- 0
RPI from Inside Lacrosse has us 5. (http://insidelacrosse.com/news/2013/04/22/mens-lacrosse-rpi-denver-no-1-april-22)
RANK SCHOOL CONFERENCE RECORD ROAD NEUTRAL HOME NON-DI
1 Denver ECAC 10-3 4-0 1- 2 5-1 0-0
2 Notre Dame Big East 10-2 4-0 2- 0 4-2 0-0
3 Maryland ACC 9-2 6-0 0- 0 3-2 0-0
4 North Carolina ACC 10-3 3-1 0- 1 7-1 0-0
5 Cornell Ivy 11-2 5-1 1- 0 5-1 0-0
6 Penn St. Colonial 10-3 6-0 1- 1 3-2 0-0
7 Duke ACC 11-4 3-1 0- 0 8-3 0-0
8 Bucknell Patriot 11-3 6-1 0- 0 5-2 0-0
9 Loyola Maryland ECAC 10-3 6-1 1- 0 3-2 0-0
10 Syracuse Big East 10-3 3-1 1- 0 6-2 0-0
11 Yale Ivy 8-4 3-3 0- 0 5-1 0-0
12 Ohio St. ECAC 9-3 6-1 0- 0 3-2 0-0
13 Albany (NY) Amer East 10-3 7-1 0- 0 3-2 0-0
14 Penn Ivy 7-4 3-3 0- 0 4-1 0-0
15 Drexel Colonial 10-3 3-3 0- 0 7-0 0-0
Not that I believe either of them.
Quote from: Jim HylaLaxPower Computer ranking has us second. (http://www.laxpower.com/update13/binmen/rating01.php)
Power POLL SOS RPI QWF TSI
Rank Team Rating Rnk Rnk Rnk Rnk Rnk Records
1 Maryland 99.90 3 4 3 3 2 9- 2- 0
2 Cornell 99.88 6 25 5 23 6 11- 2- 0
3 North Carolina 99.49 1 3 4 4 1 10- 3- 0
4 Johns Hopkins 99.34 11 14 16 15 11 8- 4- 0
5 Loyola 99.08 7 20 9 25 9 10- 3- 0
6 Princeton 98.98 12 9 18 17 12 8- 4- 0
7 Notre Dame 98.65 2 8 2 1 3 10- 2- 0
8 Denver 98.48 4 11 1 2 4 10- 3- 0
9 Yale 98.39 15 5 11 18 7 8- 4- 0
10 Penn State 98.30 8 18 6 9 8 10- 3- 0
11 Duke 98.19 5 15 7 6 5 11- 4- 0
12 Penn 98.15 18 2 14 8 13 7- 4- 0
13 Albany 98.04 10 30 13 12 15 10- 3- 0
14 Syracuse 97.74 9 13 10 5 10 10- 3- 0
15 Bucknell 97.61 13 24 8 7 14 11- 3- 0
This was the case last week as well, and I'm a little puzzled by it. The various other ranks don't have us any higher than 5th in the case of RPI, and as low as 25th in the case of SOS. Based on the other ranks posted, it would seem like there are valid reasons why UNC and Notre Dame should be ahead of us, and maybe even still Denver too. Their ranking scheme is a bit opaque, if I recall correctly from the last time I looked into it, tough, so hopefully they're right.
SOS #25. Binghamton, Colgate, Hobart, Canisus, Siena put a hit on our SOS. You can't know in advance who's up and down. And we want to play other NYS teams to help NYS and save on travel. I would bet that a schedule with Albany-Army in place of Binghamton-Siena would be stronger most years and Binghamton may be a same-day trip. Playing Lehigh as well as Bucknell would help SOS. How soon before we book Penn State, 180 miles away?
Most of the rest of the Ivy League can do better on SOS because they play us and Princeton.
No chance we play Penn State with Tambroni there. Additionally, the W over Virginia in most years is definitely one to hang your hat on, and I would have guessed a stronger year out of Colgate with Baum coming back.
Quote from: billhowardSOS #25. Binghamton, Colgate, Hobart, Canisus, Siena put a hit on our SOS. You can't know in advance who's up and down. And we want to play other NYS teams to help NYS and save on travel. I would bet that a schedule with Albany-Army in place of Binghamton-Siena would be stronger most years and Binghamton may be a same-day trip. Playing Lehigh as well as Bucknell would help SOS. How soon before we book Penn State, 180 miles away?
Most of the rest of the Ivy League can do better on SOS because they play us and Princeton.
I think you missed my point. I'm puzzled by how
high our Laxpower rank is given the relatively low numbers in the other ranking metrics, especially the low SoS as influenced the weak NYS opposition that you keep mentioning with such frequency that I'm starting to think it must have something to do with the lighting at Quinnipiac's rink.
I believe the Laxpower rankings take into account scoring margins and such. I don't think it's that much of a stretch, as Cornell has one of the most efficient offenses and defenses in the country. All of the advanced lacrosse metrics rank Cornell very high; it just seems some of the human pollsters are not seeing it to the same extent. If the numbers keep where they are, the team will begin turning more heads as it gets ready for a hopefully very, very deep playoff run.
Yeh. Everybody who had 2 Patriot League teams from Pennsylvania and St. Johns ahead of UVa in your preseason thoughts raise your hand.::nut::
Quote from: semsoxI believe the Laxpower rankings take into account scoring margins and such. I don't think it's that much of a stretch, as Cornell has one of the most efficient offenses and defenses in the country. All of the advanced lacrosse metrics rank Cornell very high; it just seems some of the human pollsters are not seeing it to the same extent. If the numbers keep where they are, the team will begin turning more heads as it gets ready for a hopefully very, very deep playoff run.
Correct, they use a margin of victory which has scoring margin and home/away as part of the mix.
Quote from: Jim HylaCorrect, they use a margin of victory which has scoring margin and home/away as part of the mix.
Isn't there a cap on MOV to collapse the effect of the early 19-11, 11-6, 19-3, 18-7 runaways?
Quote from: billhowardQuote from: Jim HylaCorrect, they use a margin of victory which has scoring margin and home/away as part of the mix.
Isn't there a cap on MOV to collapse the effect of the early 19-11, 11-6, 19-3, 18-7 runaways?
10 goals. (http://www.laxpower.com/update13/ex_col.php)
3 of 5 teams ahead of Cornell in USILA poll lost Friday or Saturday; #1 UNC won Friday and plays resurgent Virginia for ACC title Sunday. So the poll is going to change. In the Nike/Media poll where Cornell is 4th, 2 of the 3 teams ahead of #4 Cornell have lost. Root for Virginia vs. UNC Sunday to help our SOS. How this affects our NCAA seeding depends on other upsets and how we do in the Ivy tournament vs. Princeton Friday and then hopefully against the Yale-Penn winner Sunday. Laxpower has us #1 in computer rankings as of Sat nite: http://www.laxpower.com/update13/binmen/rating01.php
Quote from: billhowardDenver loses to Fairfield in OT (its sixth one-goal game in 2013) and the emperor's reign at the top is done for now. Cornell up slightly to sixth (was seventh) in the USILA poll for 4/22/13 after beating Brown. Syracuse slipping to ninth from fifth after losing to Hobart. Big weekend in the Meadlowlands, Cornell-Princeton 4pm, Syracuse-Notre Dame 6:30. Princeton dismantled Harvard Saturday, remains #12.
USILA POLL 4/22/13 http://insidelacrosse.com/rankpoll/d1usila/2013-04-22
Rank Team (W-L) Votes Firsts
1 University N Carolina (10 - 3) 176 6 [color=#FF0000]<<< [edit add Sat 4/27] Beat Duke 18-17 Fri in ACC tourney, plays Virginia Sunday[/color]
2 University Notre Dame (10 - 2) 167 3 [color=#FF0000]<<< Lost 10-4 to Syracuse[/color]
3 University of Maryland (9 - 2) 157 [color=#FF0000]<<< Lost Friday to Virginia 13-6[/color]
4 University of Denver (10 - 3) 151 [color=#FF0000]<<< Beat Michigan 12-4[/color]
5 Duke University (11 - 4) 143 [color=#FF0000]<<< Lost Friday to NC[/color]
[b]6 Cornell University (11 - 2) 138[/b] [color=#FF0000]<<< Beat Princeton 17-11[/color]
7 Loyola University (10 - 3) 130
8 Penn State University (10 - 3) 112
[b]9 Syracuse University (10 - 3) 109[/b]
10 University at Albany (10 - 3) 98
11 Johns Hopkins Un (8 - 4) 84
[b]12 Princeton University (8 - 4) 77[/b]
13 Ohio State University (9 - 3) 66
[b]13 Bucknell University (11 - 3) 66[/b]
[b]15 Yale University (8 - 4) 57[/b]
16 Lehigh University (10 - 4) 55
[b]17 Drexel University (10 - 3) 39[/b]
18 University of Penn (7 - 4) 28
19 Army (8 - 4) 10
20 Fairfield University (8 - 5) 7
Cornell and opponents in boldface.
Nike/Media poll much friendlier, has Cornell at #4 and a first place vote.
Rank Team Points 1st Place Votes
1 Univ of Notre Dame (10 - 2) 408 15
2 Univ of Maryland (9 - 2) 374 2
3 Univ of North Carolina (10 - 3) 368 3
4 Cornell University (11 - 2) 337 1
5 University of Denver (10 - 3) 331
6 Duke University (11 - 4) 320
7 Syracuse University (10 - 3) 308
8 Loyola University (10 - 3) 285
9 Penn State University (10 - 3) 246
10 University at Albany (10 - 3) 201
11 Johns Hopkins Univ (8 - 4) 196
12 Princeton University (8 - 4) 171
13 Ohio State University (9 - 3) 163
14 Lehigh University (10 - 4) 147
15 Yale University (8 - 4) 135
16 Bucknell University (11 - 3) 121
17 Drexel University (10 - 3) 102
18 University of Penn (7 - 4) 55
19 Villanova University (5 - 7) 29
20 Saint Johns University (8 - 4) 22
ALSO RECEIVING VOTES Fairfield University , Army , Towson University , Marist College , Hobart College
The two top 20s show Albany, Army, Lehigh and St John's as nearby top 20 teams we could have played instead of Siena, Colgate, Binghamton or Canisus for a better strength of schedule. At least we know that in hindsight.
The Kessenich Report http://insidelacrosse.com/news/2013/04/22/quints-top-20-and-analysis-april-22 has Cornell seventh, Princeton 12th. The Hopkins alum devotes 246 of the 1,952 words for teams 1-20 in his top 20 analysis on guess-which team and its game?
Cornell after the Meadowlands win over Princeton climbs to No. 2 behind North Carolina. Cornell is the only two-loss team; everyone else in the top 20 has three or more. I believe a .500 record is required for at-large consideration, so No. 17
Virginia at 7-8 is out. Virginia has the No. 1 SOS while Cornell was 22nd.
USILA coaches poll http://insidelacrosse.com/rankpoll/d1usila/2013-04-29
[b]
Rank Team Points 1st Place Votes[/b]
1 Univ North Carolina (12 - 3) 200 10
[color=#FF0000][b]2 Cornell University (12 - 2) 182[/b][/color]
3 University of Denver (11 - 3) 178
4 Loyola University (11 - 3) 161
5 Syracuse University (11 - 3) 150
6 Univ of Notre Dame (10 - 3) 146
6 Duke University (11 - 5) 146
8 University of Maryland (9 - 3) 142
9 Penn State University (11 - 3) 128
10 Ohio State University (10 - 3) 98
11 Lehigh University (12 - 4) 89
12 University at Albany (11 - 4) 81
13 Yale University (9 - 4) 75
13 Johns Hopkins Univ (8 - 5) 73
15 Bucknell University (12 - 4) 63
16 Princeton University (8 - 5) 61
17 Univ of Pennsylvania (8 - 4) 38
18 Drexel University (11 - 3) 35
19 University of Virginia (7 - 8) 25
20 Villanova University (6 - 7) 15
ALSO RECEIVING VOTES: Saint Johns University , Fairfield University , Brown University , Army
[b]MEDIA / INSIDE LACROSSE NIKE POLL http://insidelacrosse.com/rankpoll/d1media/2013-04-29
Rank Team Points 1st Place Votes[/b]
1 Univ of North Carolina (12 - 3) 473 20
[b][color=#FF0000]2 Cornell University (12 - 2) 410 1[/color][/b]
3 Syracuse University (11 - 3) 378 1
4 Univ of Denver (11 - 3) 376
5 Univ of Notre Dame (10 - 3) 342
6 Loyola University (11 - 3) 323
7 University of Maryland (9 - 3) 308
8 Duke University (11 - 5) 305
9 Penn State University (11 - 3) 279
10 Lehigh University (12 - 4) 215
11 Ohio State University (10 - 3) 206
12 University at Albany (11 - 4) 190
13 Yale University (9 - 4) 154
14 Drexel University (11 - 3) 137
15 Princeton University (8 - 5) 132
16 Johns Hopkins Univ (8 - 5) 128
17 Bucknell University (12 - 4) 116
18 University of Penn (8 - 4) 92
19 Villanova University (6 - 7) 41
20 Saint Johns University (9 - 4) 29
ALSO RECEIVING VOTES: University of Virginia , Fairfield University , Towson University , University of Massachusetts , Army , Georgetown University
See Inside Lacrosse probabilities http://www.laxpower.com/common/ncaa_selection_chances.php of making the tournament http://www.laxpower.com/common/ncaa_selection_chances.php where Cornell is one of the 7 schools with a 100% probability of making the tournament. Also see the Inside Lacrosse computer rankings http://www.laxpower.com/update13/binmen/rating01.php that have Cornell first.
Cornell climbs from seventh to fourth in Quint Kessenich's weekly top 20 analysis: http://insidelacrosse.com/news/2013/04/29/quints-top-20-and-analysis-april-29
Quote from: Kessenich4. Cornell — An outstanding effort by Cornell (12-2) on Saturday in a win over Princeton in the Big City Classic. The Tigers don't have a defender who can match strides with Rob Pannell. That became apparent early. Princeton will look to a plan B and C in the Ivy League Semifinals on Friday in Ithaca. The Big Red have one-goal losses to Syracuse and Bucknell. Best wins are against Yale, Penn, UVa and Princeton. Obvious statement of the day: This attack unit poses major match-up issues. I like their energetic poles and first midfield, especially Connor Buczek, the finest player to emerge from Cincinnati. The rest of the gang will determine how far Cornell advances.
In reader comments, one snippy voice asks, "'...the finest player to emerge from Cincinnati.' Exactly what is the competition?"
Quote from: billhowardCornell after the Meadowlands win over Princeton climbs to No. 2 behind North Carolina. Cornell is the only two-loss team; everyone else in the top 20 has three or more. I believe a .500 record is required for at-large consideration, so No. 17
Virginia at 7-8 is out. Virginia has the No. 1 SOS while Cornell was 22nd.
USILA coaches poll http://insidelacrosse.com/rankpoll/d1usila/2013-04-29 [b]
Rank Team Points 1st Place Votes[/b]
1 Univ North Carolina (12 - 3) 200 10
[color=#FF0000][b]2 Cornell University (12 - 2) 182[/b][/color]
3 University of Denver (11 - 3) 178
4 Loyola University (11 - 3) 161
5 Syracuse University (11 - 3) 150
6 Univ of Notre Dame (10 - 3) 146
6 Duke University (11 - 5) 146
8 University of Maryland (9 - 3) 142
9 Penn State University (11 - 3) 128
10 Ohio State University (10 - 3) 98
11 Lehigh University (12 - 4) 89
12 University at Albany (11 - 4) 81
13 Yale University (9 - 4) 75
13 Johns Hopkins Univ (8 - 5) 73
15 Bucknell University (12 - 4) 63
16 Princeton University (8 - 5) 61
17 Univ of Pennsylvania (8 - 4) 38
18 Drexel University (11 - 3) 35
19 University of Virginia (7 - 8) 25
20 Villanova University (6 - 7) 15
ALSO RECEIVING VOTES: Saint Johns University , Fairfield University , Brown University , Army
[b]MEDIA / INSIDE LACROSSE NIKE POLL http://insidelacrosse.com/rankpoll/d1media/2013-04-29
Rank Team Points 1st Place Votes[/b]
1 Univ of North Carolina (12 - 3) 473 20
[b][color=#FF0000]2 Cornell University (12 - 2) 410 1[/color][/b]
3 Syracuse University (11 - 3) 378 1
4 Univ of Denver (11 - 3) 376
5 Univ of Notre Dame (10 - 3) 342
6 Loyola University (11 - 3) 323
7 University of Maryland (9 - 3) 308
8 Duke University (11 - 5) 305
9 Penn State University (11 - 3) 279
10 Lehigh University (12 - 4) 215
11 Ohio State University (10 - 3) 206
12 University at Albany (11 - 4) 190
13 Yale University (9 - 4) 154
14 Drexel University (11 - 3) 137
15 Princeton University (8 - 5) 132
16 Johns Hopkins Univ (8 - 5) 128
17 Bucknell University (12 - 4) 116
18 University of Penn (8 - 4) 92
19 Villanova University (6 - 7) 41
20 Saint Johns University (9 - 4) 29
ALSO RECEIVING VOTES: University of Virginia , Fairfield University , Towson University , University of Massachusetts , Army , Georgetown University
See Inside Lacrosse probabilities http://www.laxpower.com/common/ncaa_selection_chances.php of making the tournament http://www.laxpower.com/common/ncaa_selection_chances.php where Cornell is one of the 7 schools with a 100% probability of making the tournament. Also see the Inside Lacrosse computer rankings http://www.laxpower.com/update13/binmen/rating01.php that have Cornell first.
UNC is pretty good, I guess, but good enough to be the (virtually) unamimous #1? Eh.