ELynah Forum

General Category => Hockey => Topic started by: Trotsky on March 04, 2013, 08:37:13 AM

Title: Wallowing
Post by: Trotsky on March 04, 2013, 08:37:13 AM
Since we're bound to do it, we should at least do it right:

Tied for second-longest conference losing streak (7) ever (http://www.tbrw.info/weekly_Updates/cornell_Color_ECAC.html).

The GFA and GAA (http://www.tbrw.info/cornell_History/cornell_Goal_Margin.html) lines, and consequently the ratio of Cornell goals (http://www.tbrw.info/cornell_History/cornell_ECAC_G_Pct.html) in ECAC games, cross into the bad lands for the first time in 15 years.

Worst RS finish (http://www.tbrw.info/cornell_History/cornell_RS_Bargraph.html) in 20 years, and the 4-year moving average is falling through the floor.  Only two finishes (1984 12th, 1993 11th) were worse over the last 48 years, despite more than a third of that time with 17 teams in the conference.

First time with more 0-point weekends than 4-point weekends (http://www.tbrw.info/weekly_Updates/cornell_4pt_Weekends.html) since 2000.

Most disappointing finish vs Coaches Poll (http://www.tbrw.info/cornell_History/cornell_Improve_vs_Coaches_Poll.html) since... maybe ever.  At least as long as I have records for.

Tied for fourth-lowest conference winning percentage (http://www.tbrw.info/cornell_History/cornell_ECAC_by_Year.html) (.432), behind only 1984 (.429), 1987 (.364), and 1993 (.250).

Second ECAC losing record at Lynah (http://www.tbrw.info/weekly_Updates/cornell_Lynah_ECAC_RS.html) of Schafer era.

Tied for second-lowest Cornell record in the Ivies (http://www.tbrw.info/cornell_History/cornell_Ivy_Records_All_Seasons.html) (2-6-2 .300) in 50 years.

First majority "cold" season (http://www.tbrw.info/weekly_Updates/cornell_Warmth_ECAC.html) in Schafer era.
Title: Re: Wallowing
Post by: Scersk '97 on March 04, 2013, 10:17:30 AM
You know, with Princeton winning in overtime by pulling their goalie (http://www.collegehockeystats.net/1213/boxes/mharprn1.m02) after taking a timeout to digest the game scores, I bet Clarkson feels a bit like we did in 1995 (http://www.nytimes.com/1995/11/19/sports/college-football-penn-wins-the-game-princeton-the-title.html).  Why, oh why, can't we go back to pre-telegraph communication!  

Puck Frinceton for their gamesmanship and chicanery.  And screw Harvard for not coming through when we needed them to.  They both well and truly suck.  Harvard doubly so.
Title: Re: Wallowing
Post by: Trotsky on March 04, 2013, 10:46:23 AM
Rationalizing is just down the hall.  This is Wallowing.

(http://i.ytimg.com/vi/ppK6sxz6epk/0.jpg)
Title: Re: Wallowing
Post by: andyw2100 on March 04, 2013, 11:00:44 AM
Quote from: Scersk '97You know, with Princeton winning in overtime by pulling their goalie (http://www.collegehockeystats.net/1213/boxes/mharprn1.m02) after taking a timeout to digest the game scores, I bet Clarkson feels a bit like we did in 1995 (http://www.nytimes.com/1995/11/19/sports/college-football-penn-wins-the-game-princeton-the-title.html).  Why, oh why, can't we go back to pre-telegraph communication!  

Puck Frinceton for their gamesmanship and chicanery.  And screw Harvard for not coming through when we needed them to.  They both well and truly suck.  Harvard doubly so.

So the three-way tie that would have resulted between Cornell, Princeton, and Clarkson had Princeton tied Harvard would have seen us win the tie-breaker and finish 8? Assuming that is the case, you've got to give a heck of a lot of credit to the Princeton coaching staff for getting that information and acting on it. I might go so far as to call it gamesmanship, but I certainly wouldn't call is chicanery.
Title: Re: Wallowing
Post by: andyw2100 on March 04, 2013, 11:09:42 AM
Quote from: andyw2100
Quote from: Scersk '97You know, with Princeton winning in overtime by pulling their goalie (http://www.collegehockeystats.net/1213/boxes/mharprn1.m02) after taking a timeout to digest the game scores, I bet Clarkson feels a bit like we did in 1995 (http://www.nytimes.com/1995/11/19/sports/college-football-penn-wins-the-game-princeton-the-title.html).  Why, oh why, can't we go back to pre-telegraph communication!  

Puck Frinceton for their gamesmanship and chicanery.  And screw Harvard for not coming through when we needed them to.  They both well and truly suck.  Harvard doubly so.

So the three-way tie that would have resulted between Cornell, Princeton, and Clarkson had Princeton tied Harvard would have seen us win the tie-breaker and finish 8? Assuming that is the case, you've got to give a heck of a lot of credit to the Princeton coaching staff for getting that information and acting on it. I might go so far as to call it gamesmanship, but I certainly wouldn't call is chicanery.

My thought that Cornell would have won the tie-breaker in a 3-way tie made no sense to me upon further reflection, since Cornell lost to Princeton twice and to Clarkson once. So I dug a little deeper, and I now believe Clarkson would have taken eighth had there been a 3-way tie. So my comment on Princeton's coaching is still valid, but I believe Clarkson, not Cornell, was the victim of their gamesmanship.
Title: Re: Wallowing
Post by: Dafatone on March 04, 2013, 11:18:56 AM
Quote from: andyw2100
Quote from: Scersk '97You know, with Princeton winning in overtime by pulling their goalie (http://www.collegehockeystats.net/1213/boxes/mharprn1.m02) after taking a timeout to digest the game scores, I bet Clarkson feels a bit like we did in 1995 (http://www.nytimes.com/1995/11/19/sports/college-football-penn-wins-the-game-princeton-the-title.html).  Why, oh why, can't we go back to pre-telegraph communication!  

Puck Frinceton for their gamesmanship and chicanery.  And screw Harvard for not coming through when we needed them to.  They both well and truly suck.  Harvard doubly so.

So the three-way tie that would have resulted between Cornell, Princeton, and Clarkson had Princeton tied Harvard would have seen us win the tie-breaker and finish 8? Assuming that is the case, you've got to give a heck of a lot of credit to the Princeton coaching staff for getting that information and acting on it. I might go so far as to call it gamesmanship, but I certainly wouldn't call is chicanery.

I believe the three way tie actually had us in 10th.  But had Harvard won the game, we'd be in 8th.  I think Princeton finished 9th in the three way tie, 8th with a win, and I have no idea really, probably 10th, with a loss?
Title: Re: Wallowing
Post by: Jordan 04 on March 04, 2013, 11:20:53 AM
No doubt what the Princeton coaches did was very smart. Great move, that many would not make.
Title: Re: Wallowing
Post by: BMac on March 04, 2013, 11:43:39 AM
I got really excited reading the USCHO blog story (http://www.uscho.com/ecac-blog/2013/03/04/clutch-and-not-so-much-in-the-regular-season-finales/) that said we were going to Providence, but they're wrong. Princeton. Womp womp.
Title: Re: Wallowing
Post by: KeithK on March 04, 2013, 11:55:43 AM
Quote from: andyw2100
Quote from: Scersk '97You know, with Princeton winning in overtime by pulling their goalie (http://www.collegehockeystats.net/1213/boxes/mharprn1.m02) after taking a timeout to digest the game scores, I bet Clarkson feels a bit like we did in 1995 (http://www.nytimes.com/1995/11/19/sports/college-football-penn-wins-the-game-princeton-the-title.html).  Why, oh why, can't we go back to pre-telegraph communication!  

Puck Frinceton for their gamesmanship and chicanery.  And screw Harvard for not coming through when we needed them to.  They both well and truly suck.  Harvard doubly so.

So the three-way tie that would have resulted between Cornell, Princeton, and Clarkson had Princeton tied Harvard would have seen us win the tie-breaker and finish 8? Assuming that is the case, you've got to give a heck of a lot of credit to the Princeton coaching staff for getting that information and acting on it. I might go so far as to call it gamesmanship, but I certainly wouldn't call is chicanery.
It was chicanery!  And the worst kind too!  It was completely unsportsmanlike and any good sports fan should be outraged!

(This is a wallowing thread. No good sportsmanship here.)
Title: Re: Wallowing
Post by: CowbellGuy on March 04, 2013, 11:58:32 AM
The ELynah Twitter feed (https://twitter.com/ELynah) had you covered on this. Princeton win = 10th, tie = 9th, Harvard win = 8th. If Harvard didn't suck and scored an empty-netter, you'd be singing a different tune.
Title: Re: Wallowing
Post by: Trotsky on March 04, 2013, 12:04:40 PM
Quote from: CowbellGuyThe ELynah Twitter feed (https://twitter.com/ELynah) had you covered on this. Princeton win = 10th, tie = 9th, Harvard win = 8th. If Harvard didn't suck and scored an empty-netter, you'd be singing a different tune.

That should be: tie = 10th, Princeton win = 9th, Harvard win = 8th.

Which was why it was so weird.
Title: Re: Wallowing
Post by: RichH on March 04, 2013, 12:09:39 PM
Quote from: Scersk '97You know, with Princeton winning in overtime by pulling their goalie (http://www.collegehockeystats.net/1213/boxes/mharprn1.m02) after taking a timeout to digest the game scores, I bet Clarkson feels a bit like we did in 1995 (http://www.nytimes.com/1995/11/19/sports/college-football-penn-wins-the-game-princeton-the-title.html).  Why, oh why, can't we go back to pre-telegraph communication!  

Puck Frinceton for their gamesmanship and chicanery.  And screw Harvard for not coming through when we needed them to.  They both well and truly suck.  Harvard doubly so.

I learned long ago to never trust Harvard to do anything to help us.

The ECAC Hockey site has the (choppy) video. Of entertainment value is the initial bafflement of the Harvard broadcasters regarding the move. Also seeing Harvard take a full-ice shot at an empty net and then get scored upon following the resulting icing call. Again.

http://www.ecachockey.com/men/video/2012-13/20130203_Harvard_Princeton-desktop
Title: Re: Wallowing
Post by: CowbellGuy on March 04, 2013, 12:17:07 PM
In the Harvard broadcasters' defense, apparently the internet was down for most or all of the game so they had no idea what was going on elsewhere in the league. In their nondefense, there are these things called smartphones...
Title: Re: Wallowing
Post by: Scersk '97 on March 04, 2013, 12:39:07 PM
Yes, Clarkson surely felt screwed...  which was my point beyond wallowing about the only football wallow that I can wallow in, which caused me to hate Princeton.

Such was the quality of my thoughts, i.e., non-specific, misdirected, blind wallowing.  I was just reconnecting with the moment my distaste for Princeton truly flowered.
Title: Re: Wallowing
Post by: Ben on March 04, 2013, 01:15:59 PM
Quote from: Scersk '97Yes, Clarkson surely felt screwed...
Why? Because Princeton's coaches did their jobs and tried to win a hockey game?
Title: Re: Wallowing
Post by: Scersk '97 on March 04, 2013, 01:52:41 PM
Quote from: Ben
Quote from: Scersk '97Yes, Clarkson surely felt screwed...
Why? Because Princeton's coaches did their jobs and tried to win a hockey game?

Blah, blah, blah.  Keep your logic out of my once-removed wallow.  Yes, the Princeton coaches were brilliant—all hail Princeton and its brilliant coaches!  If I could make that Tiger roar right now, I'd do it and love it!!!  Wheee!

Yet, in some fairyland of fairness, I wish standings watching could be eliminated, at least during the games.  (Indeed, Brown and 'Gate already screwed with their early game.)  However unrealistic it might be, I long for the games to be played at the same time under a media blackout.  I long for a lot of unrealistic things.

To my (clearly addled, illogical) mind, it's just nice to spread around the wallowing by considering that the fans of other teams are wallowing too.  Wallowing is showering in the worst of it, and I think that should also include the negative side of "what if?"

How dare you bring logic to bear on my co-Schadenfreude!
Title: Re: Wallowing
Post by: Trotsky on March 04, 2013, 01:57:53 PM
Schadenfreude is an anagram for Schafer End Due.
Title: Re: Wallowing
Post by: nyc94 on March 04, 2013, 02:12:47 PM
Quote from: Jordan 04No doubt what the Princeton coaches did was very smart. Great move, that many would not make.

It's not like they have to worry about what a loss does to their chances in the Pairwise.
Title: Re: Wallowing
Post by: cbuckser on March 04, 2013, 04:29:59 PM
Quote from: Jordan 04No doubt what the Princeton coaches did was very smart. Great move, that many would not make.
To try to get home-ice advantage in the CCHA quarterfinals, Ferris State tried the same thing against Michigan at Yost. Had Ferris State scored, Michigan would have lost home-ice advantage for the first round.

The hockey game finished in a 1-1 tie, and Michigan prevailed in the shootout (http://www.michigandaily.com/sports/racine-rewards-seniors-home-ice-advantage). The shootout result impacted the playoff seedings, but not which teams got home-ice advantage.
Title: Re: Wallowing
Post by: TimV on March 04, 2013, 07:01:20 PM
Quote from: TrotskySchadenfreude is an anagram for Schafer End Due.

Wow.  That surprised me. Realistically, to be replaced by who? Doug Darraugh?  Would Union's Coach jump?

And you must kill at Scrabble.
Title: Re: Wallowing
Post by: Towerroad on March 04, 2013, 07:45:05 PM
Quote from: TimV
Quote from: TrotskySchadenfreude is an anagram for Schafer End Due.

Wow.  That surprised me. Realistically, to be replaced by who? Doug Darraugh?  Would Union's Coach jump?

And you must kill at Scrabble.

I have to believe that Cornell could attract a quality coach. Darraugh has done an outstanding job with the women's program. If you watch the women move the puck you can only say "I wish the men could do that" (Yes I know the game is different)
Title: Re: Wallowing
Post by: Jim Hyla on March 04, 2013, 07:56:25 PM
Quote from: cbuckser
Quote from: Jordan 04No doubt what the Princeton coaches did was very smart. Great move, that many would not make.
To try to get home-ice advantage in the CCHA quarterfinals, Ferris State tried the same thing against Michigan at Yost. Had Ferris State scored, Michigan would have lost home-ice advantage for the first round.

The hockey game finished in a 1-1 tie, and Michigan prevailed in the shootout (http://www.michigandaily.com/sports/racine-rewards-seniors-home-ice-advantage). The shootout result impacted the playoff seedings, but not which teams got home-ice advantage.

And we had it tried against us, by Clarkson. 1989 Quarters, this time I'm correct Beeeej:-D. We won the first game, and if Clarkson would win the second game, we'd have to go to that stupid mini game. It was a 0-0 tie when Clarkson pulled their goalie, but didn't score. Not quite the same since they knew they had to win, but still pulled a goalie in a tie game. So Clarkson couldn't perform, but Princeton could.
Title: Re: Wallowing
Post by: Ben on March 04, 2013, 08:00:53 PM
Quote from: Towerroad
Quote from: TimV
Quote from: TrotskySchadenfreude is an anagram for Schafer End Due.

Wow.  That surprised me. Realistically, to be replaced by who? Doug Darraugh?  Would Union's Coach jump?

And you must kill at Scrabble.

I have to believe that Cornell could attract a quality coach. Darraugh has done an outstanding job with the women's program. If you watch the women move the puck you can only say "I wish the men could do that" (Yes I know the game is different)
I motion that "Derraugh" be added to the Spelling Guide.
Title: Re: Wallowing
Post by: Jim Hyla on March 04, 2013, 08:05:53 PM
Watching the HU-PU replay, I'm even more pissed at Harvard. On the try on EN, the Harvard player had plenty of room to skate with the puck up ice beore firing it. A little more smarts on his part and ...
Title: Re: Wallowing
Post by: KeithK on March 04, 2013, 08:26:18 PM
Quote from: Jim Hyla
Quote from: cbuckser
Quote from: Jordan 04No doubt what the Princeton coaches did was very smart. Great move, that many would not make.
To try to get home-ice advantage in the CCHA quarterfinals, Ferris State tried the same thing against Michigan at Yost. Had Ferris State scored, Michigan would have lost home-ice advantage for the first round.

The hockey game finished in a 1-1 tie, and Michigan prevailed in the shootout (http://www.michigandaily.com/sports/racine-rewards-seniors-home-ice-advantage). The shootout result impacted the playoff seedings, but not which teams got home-ice advantage.

And we had it tried against us, by Clarkson. 1989 Quarters, this time I'm correct Beeeej:-D. We won the first game, and if Clarkson would win the second game, we'd have to go to that stupid mini game. It was a 0-0 tie when Clarkson pulled their goalie, but didn't score. Not quite the same since they knew they had to win, but still pulled a goalie in a tie game. So Clarkson couldn't perform, but Princeton could.
Or else Cornell performed while Harvard sucked.
Title: Re: Wallowing
Post by: Trotsky on March 04, 2013, 08:38:43 PM
Quote from: TimV
Quote from: TrotskySchadenfreude is an anagram for Schafer End Due.

Wow.  That surprised me. Realistically, to be replaced by who?

Ironic reference to the inevitable "the game has passed him by" wail whenever we lose a game.  I hope Mike stays another 18 years.
Title: Re: Wallowing
Post by: TimV on March 04, 2013, 09:47:18 PM
Oh good...That sounds more like you. I'm releived.:-D

But you should know somebody used your name and password to start this thread with an awful list of stuff!
Title: Re: Wallowing
Post by: Trotsky on March 04, 2013, 10:21:20 PM
Quote from: TimVBut you should know somebody used your name and password to start this thread with an awful list of stuff!

Ironic reference to the "fans" who immediately re-jumped back on the holocaust wagon the second we lost to Yale.  If they are going to whine, I would at least like them to whine informedly.

Also, the point of a chart like this (http://www.tbrw.info/cornell_History/cornell_RS_Bargraph.html) isn't that we finished 9th.  It's that we finished in the top 4 12 of the previous 13 seasons, and what the fuck more do people want?
Title: Re: Wallowing
Post by: TimV on March 04, 2013, 11:12:56 PM
+4
Title: Re: Wallowing
Post by: BearLover on March 05, 2013, 01:14:00 AM
Unless Cornell wins the ECAC tournament, it's a disappointing year, any way you slice it.
Title: Re: Wallowing
Post by: Jim Hyla on March 05, 2013, 07:48:21 AM
Quote from: KeithK
Quote from: Jim Hyla
Quote from: cbuckser
Quote from: Jordan 04No doubt what the Princeton coaches did was very smart. Great move, that many would not make.
To try to get home-ice advantage in the CCHA quarterfinals, Ferris State tried the same thing against Michigan at Yost. Had Ferris State scored, Michigan would have lost home-ice advantage for the first round.

The hockey game finished in a 1-1 tie, and Michigan prevailed in the shootout (http://www.michigandaily.com/sports/racine-rewards-seniors-home-ice-advantage). The shootout result impacted the playoff seedings, but not which teams got home-ice advantage.

And we had it tried against us, by Clarkson. 1989 Quarters, this time I'm correct Beeeej:-D. We won the first game, and if Clarkson would win the second game, we'd have to go to that stupid mini game. It was a 0-0 tie when Clarkson pulled their goalie, but didn't score. Not quite the same since they knew they had to win, but still pulled a goalie in a tie game. So Clarkson couldn't perform, but Princeton could.
Or else Cornell performed while Harvard sucked.

Good point.
Title: Re: Wallowing
Post by: Towerroad on March 05, 2013, 07:50:18 AM
Quote from: Trotsky
Quote from: TimVBut you should know somebody used your name and password to start this thread with an awful list of stuff!

Ironic reference to the "fans" who immediately re-jumped back on the holocaust wagon the second we lost to Yale.  If they are going to whine, I would at least like them to whine informedly.

Also, the point of a chart like this (http://www.tbrw.info/cornell_History/cornell_RS_Bargraph.html) isn't that we finished 9th.  It's that we finished in the top 4 12 of the previous 13 seasons, and what the fuck more do people want?

You know what we want. What every one of us wants. We talk about it incessently. We want to be taken to the promised land. We want to win the last game of the season. That is what we want.

This is the wallowing topic so anyone not cast into the pit of dispare should start the "The only reason we are sub .500 is the refs hate us, the gods steer our pucks around the net, and our mommy's did not hold us enough" Topic. Of course it is permissable to participate in both.
Title: Re: Wallowing
Post by: Jim Hyla on March 05, 2013, 07:50:33 AM
Quote from: BearLoverUnless Cornell wins the ECAC tournament, it's a disappointing year, any way you slice it.

To each his own.
Title: Re: Wallowing
Post by: Swampy on March 05, 2013, 08:27:10 AM
Quote from: Towerroad
Quote from: Trotsky
Quote from: TimVBut you should know somebody used your name and password to start this thread with an awful list of stuff!

Ironic reference to the "fans" who immediately re-jumped back on the holocaust wagon the second we lost to Yale.  If they are going to whine, I would at least like them to whine informedly.

Also, the point of a chart like this (http://www.tbrw.info/cornell_History/cornell_RS_Bargraph.html) isn't that we finished 9th.  It's that we finished in the top 4 12 of the previous 13 seasons, and what the fuck more do people want?

You know what we want. What every one of us wants. We talk about it incessently. We want to be taken to the promised land. We want to win the last game of the season. That is what we want.

This is the wallowing topic so anyone not cast into the pit of dispare should start the "The only reason we are sub .500 is the refs hate us, the gods steer our pucks around the net, and our mommy's did not hold us enough" Topic. Of course it is permissable to participate in both.

Over at the Laxpower forum, Ivyman reminded me of an apropos quote that appeared on ELF around 2009:

"Why does God hate us so much? Is it the Atheism?"
Title: Re: Wallowing
Post by: Robb on March 05, 2013, 08:38:50 AM
Quote from: TowerroadThis is the wallowing topic so anyone not cast into the pit of dispare should start the "The only reason we are sub .500 is the refs hate us, the gods steer our pucks around the net, and our mommy's did not hold us enough" Topic.
Also known as the "We're no better than RPI fans" thread.
Title: Re: Wallowing
Post by: Trotsky on March 05, 2013, 08:45:55 AM
Quote from: Jim Hyla
Quote from: BearLoverUnless Cornell wins the ECAC tournament, it's a disappointing year, any way you slice it.

To each his own.
Entitlement.  It's what's for dinner.
Title: Re: Wallowing
Post by: Trotsky on March 05, 2013, 08:46:49 AM
Quote from: Towerroad
Quote from: Trotsky
Quote from: TimVBut you should know somebody used your name and password to start this thread with an awful list of stuff!

Ironic reference to the "fans" who immediately re-jumped back on the holocaust wagon the second we lost to Yale.  If they are going to whine, I would at least like them to whine informedly.

Also, the point of a chart like this (http://www.tbrw.info/cornell_History/cornell_RS_Bargraph.html) isn't that we finished 9th.  It's that we finished in the top 4 12 of the previous 13 seasons, and what the fuck more do people want?

You know what we want. What every one of us wants. We talk about it incessently. We want to be taken to the promised land. We want to win the last game of the season. That is what we want.

This is the wallowing topic so anyone not cast into the pit of dispare should start the "The only reason we are sub .500 is the refs hate us, the gods steer our pucks around the net, and our mommy's did not hold us enough" Topic. Of course it is permissable to participate in both.

Hey, the clear reason is NOT ENUF GOALZ!!!
Title: Re: Wallowing
Post by: RatushnyFan on March 05, 2013, 10:08:11 AM
Quote from: Ben
Quote from: Towerroad
Quote from: TimV
Quote from: TrotskySchadenfreude is an anagram for Schafer End Due.

Wow.  That surprised me. Realistically, to be replaced by who? Doug Darraugh?  Would Union's Coach jump?

And you must kill at Scrabble.

I have to believe that Cornell could attract a quality coach. Darraugh has done an outstanding job with the women's program. If you watch the women move the puck you can only say "I wish the men could do that" (Yes I know the game is different)
I motion that "Derraugh" be added to the Spelling Guide.
30 goals ought to count for something...
Title: Re: Wallowing
Post by: BearLover on March 05, 2013, 04:05:40 PM
Quote from: Trotsky
Quote from: Jim Hyla
Quote from: BearLoverUnless Cornell wins the ECAC tournament, it's a disappointing year, any way you slice it.

To each his own.
Entitlement.  It's what's for dinner.
Do you not know what "disappointing" means?  I didn't say "bad" year.  Everyone expected Cornell to compete for a national championship.  They finished in the bottom third of their conference.  How could you possibly not consider that disappointing?  Expectations don't come from nowhere; they come from being competitive nearly every year and losing only four players from a team that was one goal from the Frozen Four.  I don't feel entitled to anything; I do, however, have expectations, and this year these expectations showed no semblance of being met.
Title: Re: Wallowing
Post by: KeithK on March 05, 2013, 04:22:23 PM
Quote from: BearLover
Quote from: Trotsky
Quote from: Jim Hyla
Quote from: BearLoverUnless Cornell wins the ECAC tournament, it's a disappointing year, any way you slice it.

To each his own.
Entitlement.  It's what's for dinner.
Do you not know what "disappointing" means?  I didn't say "bad" year.  Everyone expected Cornell to compete for a national championship.  They finished in the bottom third of their conference.  How could you possibly not consider that disappointing?  Expectations don't come from nowhere; they come from being competitive nearly every year and losing only four players from a team that was one goal from the Frozen Four.  I don't feel entitled to anything; I do, however, have expectations, and this year these expectations showed no semblance of being met.
Your statement could be read as any year we don't win the tournament it's a disappointing year. That's how I read it initially and that's a sentiment that reflects entitlement, IMO.  If you just meant this year, then it reads differently.  Yes, I think we're all disappointed in this year's results.

Given the randomness involved in post-season tournaments I think winning the tournament is a pretty high bar for avoiding disappointment.
Title: Re: Wallowing
Post by: Give My Regards on March 05, 2013, 08:46:39 PM
Quote from: TowerroadYou know what we want. What every one of us wants. We talk about it incessently. We want to be taken to the promised land. We want to win the last game of the season. That is what we want.

Well, Cornell could win the "last game of the season" by winning the ECAC consolation.
Title: Re: Wallowing
Post by: Towerroad on March 05, 2013, 08:52:24 PM
Quote from: Give My Regards
Quote from: TowerroadYou know what we want. What every one of us wants. We talk about it incessently. We want to be taken to the promised land. We want to win the last game of the season. That is what we want.

Well, Cornell could win the "last game of the season" by winning the ECAC consolation.

That would only be the last game of our season.
Title: Re: Wallowing
Post by: BearLover on March 05, 2013, 09:35:15 PM
Quote from: KeithK
Quote from: BearLover
Quote from: Trotsky
Quote from: Jim Hyla
Quote from: BearLoverUnless Cornell wins the ECAC tournament, it's a disappointing year, any way you slice it.

To each his own.
Entitlement.  It's what's for dinner.
Do you not know what "disappointing" means?  I didn't say "bad" year.  Everyone expected Cornell to compete for a national championship.  They finished in the bottom third of their conference.  How could you possibly not consider that disappointing?  Expectations don't come from nowhere; they come from being competitive nearly every year and losing only four players from a team that was one goal from the Frozen Four.  I don't feel entitled to anything; I do, however, have expectations, and this year these expectations showed no semblance of being met.
Your statement could be read as any year we don't win the tournament it's a disappointing year. That's how I read it initially and that's a sentiment that reflects entitlement, IMO.  If you just meant this year, then it reads differently.  Yes, I think we're all disappointed in this year's results.

Given the randomness involved in post-season tournaments I think winning the tournament is a pretty high bar for avoiding disappointment.
I see the confusion.  I meant that, given what has transpired this year, at this point only by winning the tournament could this season be considered a success.  I generally see a successful season as one in which Cornell makes the national tournament.  They were definitely expected to this year.
Title: Re: Wallowing
Post by: billhoward on March 05, 2013, 09:49:22 PM
Quote from: BearLoverUnless Cornell wins the ECAC tournament, it's a disappointing year, any way you slice it.
Made more disheartening if Atlantic City becomes the only tournament venue where Cornell will have never won the ECAC championship. Unless at some point the tournament retu-- never mind
Title: Re: Wallowing
Post by: Jim Hyla on March 05, 2013, 09:55:03 PM
Quote from: billhoward
Quote from: BearLoverUnless Cornell wins the ECAC tournament, it's a disappointing year, any way you slice it.
Made more disheartening if Atlantic City becomes the only tournament venue where Cornell will have never won the ECAC championship. Unless at some point the tournament retu-- never mind

Wash your mouth out with soap.
Title: Re: Wallowing
Post by: billhoward on March 05, 2013, 10:29:11 PM
Quote from: Jim Hyla
Quote from: billhoward
Quote from: BearLoverUnless Cornell wins the ECAC tournament, it's a disappointing year, any way you slice it.
Made more disheartening if Atlantic City becomes the only tournament venue where Cornell will have never won the ECAC championship. Unless at some point the tournament retu-- never mind
Wash your mouth out with soap.
A one-two punch. First no ECACs in AC, now this: College sports scene gets more barren in the Garden State. NJ approves single-game betting. NCAA removes post-season tournaments such an NCAA quarterfinal round at Princeton or a title game at Meadowlands or a first-rounder where the NJ 1-seed was to have hosted the Pennsylvania 8-seed.
Quote from: Mark Lewis, NCAA executive vice president of championships and alliances"Maintaining the integrity of sports and protecting student-athlete well-being are at the bedrock of the NCAA's mission, and are reflected in our policies prohibiting the hosting of our championships in states that provide for single game sports wagering."
Title: Re: Wallowing
Post by: Trotsky on March 05, 2013, 11:30:31 PM
Quote from: billhowardMade more disheartening if Atlantic City becomes the only tournament venue where Cornell will have never won the ECAC championship. Unless at some point the tournament retu-- never mind
The only city, not venue.  Matthews (nee Boston) Arena hosted the tournament 1962-65.
Title: Re: Wallowing
Post by: ugarte on March 05, 2013, 11:41:51 PM
Quote from: Mark Lewis, NCAA executive vice president of championships and alliances"Maintaining the integrity of sports and protecting student-athlete well-being are at the bedrock of the NCAA's mission, and are reflected in our policies prohibiting the hosting of our championships in states that provide for single game sports wagering."
This makes sense because all gambling is local and state-sanctioned.
Title: Re: Wallowing
Post by: Trotsky on March 05, 2013, 11:46:56 PM
Quote from: ugarte
Quote from: Mark Lewis, NCAA executive vice president of championships and alliances"Maintaining the integrity of sports and protecting student-athlete well-being are at the bedrock of the NCAA's mission, and are reflected in our policies prohibiting the hosting of our championships in states that provide for single game sports wagering."
This makes sense because all gambling is local and state-sanctioned.

It also makes sense because the NCAA has been such a bulwark against the commercial exploitation of student athletics.
Title: Re: Wallowing
Post by: Rosey on March 06, 2013, 10:49:17 AM
Quote from: Trotsky
Quote from: ugarte
Quote from: Mark Lewis, NCAA executive vice president of championships and alliances"Maintaining the integrity of sports and protecting student-athlete well-being are at the bedrock of the NCAA's mission, and are reflected in our policies prohibiting the hosting of our championships in states that provide for single game sports wagering."
This makes sense because all gambling is local and state-sanctioned.

It also makes sense because the NCAA has been such a bulwark against the commercial exploitation of student athletics.
Hey, member schools are the only ones who should be able to profit off of student athletics because student athletes go pro in something other than sports mumble mumble.
Title: Re: Wallowing
Post by: Tom Lento on March 06, 2013, 08:12:22 PM
Quote from: Trotsky
Quote from: TimVBut you should know somebody used your name and password to start this thread with an awful list of stuff!

Ironic reference to the "fans" who immediately re-jumped back on the holocaust wagon the second we lost to Yale.  If they are going to whine, I would at least like them to whine informedly.

Also, the point of a chart like this (http://www.tbrw.info/cornell_History/cornell_RS_Bargraph.html) isn't that we finished 9th.  It's that we finished in the top 4 12 of the previous 13 seasons, and what the fuck more do people want?

BC has been to the tournament in 13 of the past 15 seasons, including 10 Frozen Fours and 4 national titles.
North Dakota has been to the tournament in 15 of the past 16 seasons, including 8 Frozen Fours and 2 national titles.
Michigan has been to the tournament for an incredible 22 straight seasons, including 11 Frozen Fours and 2 national titles.
BU has been. . . well, actually, BU hasn't done much better than Cornell during the Schafer era, but they did win a national title.
Wisconsin has. . . ok, actually, Wisconsin has not done as well as Cornell during the Schafer era, but they also won a national title.

Of course, being a juggernaut doesn't guarantee regular championships. BC is the only one of those three teams to take home the national title since NoDak last won it in 2000. I would have thought NoDak or Michigan would have taken one within the last 10-12 years, but it hasn't happened despite a combined 11 Frozen Four appearances for those two schools (with 3 advances to the championship game).

Also, since 2000 (inclusive):

NoDak/BC/UM: 20 FF appearances, 11 finals appearances, 5 titles (BC - 8 FF, 7 finals, 4 titles)
Rest of D-I: 32 FF appearances, 15 finals appearances, 8 titles

Compare that to the ECAC, with a whopping 3 FF appearances and 0 trips to the finals.

People want Cornell to win a title, but when that happens they'll want to be the fourth team in that elite group, and when that happens they'll want to be the equivalent of the Jerry York BC teams.

I hope you're not too angry with me for highlighting how BC has been the dominant force in D-I men's hockey for the past 10 years. :/
Title: Re: Wallowing
Post by: billhoward on March 06, 2013, 09:05:32 PM
BC has shown Eastern if not ECAC hockey is a potent force. We should hope that Quinnipiac makes it to the title game or at least FF this year, just as we expected / hoped Yale and Union would do the ECAC proud the past couple years.
Title: Re: Wallowing
Post by: marty on March 06, 2013, 10:06:06 PM
Quote from: billhowardBC has shown Eastern if not ECAC hockey is a potent force. We should hope that Quinnipiac makes it to the title game or at least FF this year, just as we expected / hoped Yale and Union would do the ECAC proud the past couple years.

This week's bracketology shows QPac in the same regional as BC.    This sucks. But Jason Moy is usually spot on. :-(
Title: Re: Wallowing
Post by: Trotsky on March 06, 2013, 10:57:32 PM
Quote from: Tom LentoBC has been to the tournament in 13 of the past 15 seasons, including 10 Frozen Fours and 4 national titles.
North Dakota has been to the tournament in 15 of the past 16 seasons, including 8 Frozen Fours and 2 national titles.
Michigan has been to the tournament for an incredible 22 straight seasons, including 11 Frozen Fours and 2 national titles.
BU has been. . . well, actually, BU hasn't done much better than Cornell during the Schafer era, but they did win a national title.
Wisconsin has. . . ok, actually, Wisconsin has not done as well as Cornell during the Schafer era, but they also won a national title.

Of course, being a juggernaut doesn't guarantee regular championships. BC is the only one of those three teams to take home the national title since NoDak last won it in 2000. I would have thought NoDak or Michigan would have taken one within the last 10-12 years, but it hasn't happened despite a combined 11 Frozen Four appearances for those two schools (with 3 advances to the championship game).

Also, since 2000 (inclusive):

NoDak/BC/UM: 20 FF appearances, 11 finals appearances, 5 titles (BC - 8 FF, 7 finals, 4 titles)
Rest of D-I: 32 FF appearances, 15 finals appearances, 8 titles

Compare that to the ECAC, with a whopping 3 FF appearances and 0 trips to the finals.

People want Cornell to win a title, but when that happens they'll want to be the fourth team in that elite group, and when that happens they'll want to be the equivalent of the Jerry York BC teams.

Everybody "wants" that, but there is a significant difference between aiming for the national title and being satisifed with nothing less.  The former is admirable in a fan; the latter is obnoxious.

Let's look at the period 2000-2012 in NCAA seeds (http://www.tbrw.info/ncaa_History/ncaa_Seeds_by_Team.html).  There are two groups


THE SUPER POWERS

13 Michigan
12 North Dakota
11 UNH
10 BC

THE POWERS

 8 Denver
 8 Maine
 8 Michigan State
 7 BU
 7 CC
 7 Cornell
 7 Wisconsin


Obviously, we would love to eventually move into the upper group, but let's not forget that being in the second group rocks.  If we can maintain that level of play over the next 13 seasons, I will be very happy.
Title: Re: Wallowing
Post by: Ben on March 06, 2013, 11:06:11 PM
Quote from: Tom LentoBC is the only one of those three teams to take home the national title since NoDak last won it in 2000.
As the son of a Badger, I'm obligated to remind you of Wisconsin's 2006 national title.
Title: Re: Wallowing
Post by: css228 on March 06, 2013, 11:06:44 PM
Quote from: Trotsky
Quote from: Tom LentoBC has been to the tournament in 13 of the past 15 seasons, including 10 Frozen Fours and 4 national titles.
North Dakota has been to the tournament in 15 of the past 16 seasons, including 8 Frozen Fours and 2 national titles.
Michigan has been to the tournament for an incredible 22 straight seasons, including 11 Frozen Fours and 2 national titles.
BU has been. . . well, actually, BU hasn't done much better than Cornell during the Schafer era, but they did win a national title.
Wisconsin has. . . ok, actually, Wisconsin has not done as well as Cornell during the Schafer era, but they also won a national title.

Of course, being a juggernaut doesn't guarantee regular championships. BC is the only one of those three teams to take home the national title since NoDak last won it in 2000. I would have thought NoDak or Michigan would have taken one within the last 10-12 years, but it hasn't happened despite a combined 11 Frozen Four appearances for those two schools (with 3 advances to the championship game).

Also, since 2000 (inclusive):

NoDak/BC/UM: 20 FF appearances, 11 finals appearances, 5 titles (BC - 8 FF, 7 finals, 4 titles)
Rest of D-I: 32 FF appearances, 15 finals appearances, 8 titles

Compare that to the ECAC, with a whopping 3 FF appearances and 0 trips to the finals.

People want Cornell to win a title, but when that happens they'll want to be the fourth team in that elite group, and when that happens they'll want to be the equivalent of the Jerry York BC teams.

Everybody "wants" that, but there is a significant difference between aiming for the national title and being satisifed with nothing less.  The former is admirable in a fan; the latter is obnoxious.

Let's look at the period 2000-2012 in NCAA seeds (http://www.tbrw.info/ncaa_History/ncaa_Seeds_by_Team.html).  There are two groups


THE SUPER POWERS

13 Michigan
12 North Dakota
11 UNH
10 BC

THE POWERS

 8 Denver
 8 Maine
 8 Michigan State
 7 BU
 7 CC
 7 Cornell
 7 Wisconsin


Obviously, we would love to eventually move into the upper group, but let's not forget that being in the second group rocks.  If we can maintain that level of play over the next 13 seasons, I will be very happy.
Yes, but I think we can all agree that for a team this talented, a bottom four finish was flat out unacceptable. Not much changes if they finish 8th as opposed to 9th, but still I don't really think its entitlement if you're disappointed when your team has a losing season, with a 500ish record at home. If you're okay with that, you're actively supporting mediocrity.
Title: Re: Wallowing
Post by: Trotsky on March 06, 2013, 11:29:43 PM
Quote from: css228Yes, but I think we can all agree that for a team this talented, a bottom four finish was flat out unacceptable. Not much changes if they finish 8th as opposed to 9th, but still I don't really think its entitlement if you're disappointed when your team has a losing season, with a 500ish record at home. If you're okay with that, you're actively supporting mediocrity.

Variance.  We'll see what happens next year.  If this is a blip then all the talk about "flat out unacceptable" or "actively supporting mediocrity" is just bloviation that belongs on Bleacher Report.

If it's a trend, I'll worry about it.  Right now annoyance at the team turning in a poor season is significantly lower than annoyance at fans who want to audition for Mike Francesa's job.
Title: Re: Wallowing
Post by: ursusminor on March 07, 2013, 12:18:17 AM
Much as I enjoy seeing Cornell fans wallowing, it should be mentioned that Michigan, who as noted has been in the NCAA tourney 22 straight years, finished 7th in the CCHA and thus is not currently in a position to get a bid this year either. It serves them right for stealing your cheers. ;)
Title: Re: Wallowing
Post by: jtwcornell91 on March 07, 2013, 12:28:40 AM
Quote from: Jim Hyla
Quote from: cbuckser
Quote from: Jordan 04No doubt what the Princeton coaches did was very smart. Great move, that many would not make.
To try to get home-ice advantage in the CCHA quarterfinals, Ferris State tried the same thing against Michigan at Yost. Had Ferris State scored, Michigan would have lost home-ice advantage for the first round.

The hockey game finished in a 1-1 tie, and Michigan prevailed in the shootout (http://www.michigandaily.com/sports/racine-rewards-seniors-home-ice-advantage). The shootout result impacted the playoff seedings, but not which teams got home-ice advantage.

And we had it tried against us, by Clarkson. 1989 Quarters, this time I'm correct Beeeej:-D. We won the first game, and if Clarkson would win the second game, we'd have to go to that stupid mini game. It was a 0-0 tie when Clarkson pulled their goalie, but didn't score. Not quite the same since they knew they had to win, but still pulled a goalie in a tie game. So Clarkson couldn't perform, but Princeton could.

SLU also scored an ENG in overtime (at 4:59!) against us in 1998.  [box (http://www.tbrw.info/seasons/1998/box19980306.pdf)]  IIRC it was to get a really minor seeding advantage, and not a bye or home ice or anything...
Title: Re: Wallowing
Post by: RichH on March 07, 2013, 12:36:42 AM
Quote from: Trotsky
Quote from: css228Yes, but I think we can all agree that for a team this talented, a bottom four finish was flat out unacceptable. Not much changes if they finish 8th as opposed to 9th, but still I don't really think its entitlement if you're disappointed when your team has a losing season, with a 500ish record at home. If you're okay with that, you're actively supporting mediocrity.

Variance.  We'll see what happens next year.  If this is a blip then all the talk about "flat out unacceptable" or "actively supporting mediocrity" is just bloviation that belongs on Bleacher Report.

If it's a trend, I'll worry about it.  Right now annoyance at the team turning in a poor season is significantly lower than annoyance at fans who want to audition for Mike Francesa's job.

The typical ECAC three-tier finish never established itself, thanks to QU's run (10 points ahead is the most since 1984.) Six points separated 3rd from 10th. Compared to most seasons, this ECAC is closer to 2002, when CU finished 9 points in front, and four points separated 3rd from 11th. It's not like we finished buried deep. For those of you who see the regular season as a "championship" to be won, I can only guess you're mad. I've always seen the end of the regular season as "jockeying for a seed" time. This is the time where seasons become successful or not. If this team is  actually hitting their stride, there's no reason to think they can't make a run here. But they have to start playing their best hockey of the year. NOW. (And for their best chances, hopefully they can avoid Connecticut in the QF, should they get past Princeton.)

So why are people who were so vocal in giving up on the team last month still coming here regularly? When I quit, I commit to stay quitted. **]
Title: Re: Wallowing
Post by: RichH on March 07, 2013, 12:41:56 AM
Quote from: ursusminorMuch as I enjoy seeing Cornell fans wallowing, it should be mentioned that Michigan, who as noted has been in the NCAA tourney 22 straight years, finished 7th in the CCHA and thus is not currently in a position to get a bid this year either. It serves them right for stealing your cheers. ;)

Gee, the last time they finished as low as 7th was all the way back in...2010.  


And they won the damned CCHA tournament to extend that cursed streak.
Title: Re: Wallowing
Post by: css228 on March 07, 2013, 12:51:06 AM
Quote from: Trotsky
Quote from: css228Yes, but I think we can all agree that for a team this talented, a bottom four finish was flat out unacceptable. Not much changes if they finish 8th as opposed to 9th, but still I don't really think its entitlement if you're disappointed when your team has a losing season, with a 500ish record at home. If you're okay with that, you're actively supporting mediocrity.

Variance.  We'll see what happens next year.  If this is a blip then all the talk about "flat out unacceptable" or "actively supporting mediocrity" is just bloviation that belongs on Bleacher Report.

If it's a trend, I'll worry about it.  Right now annoyance at the team turning in a poor season is significantly lower than annoyance at fans who want to audition for Mike Francesa's job.
Variance doesn't take a top 4 team and turn it into a bottom 4 team over night. We're not talking SEC football here. The ECAC is not a top to bottom good conference. We lost this season to the 42nd, 43rd, 45th, and 46th rated teams in KRACH. In fact we got a combined 3 points in the 7 games against the worst teams we played this season. How is that in any regards acceptable in any season. The team took a month and a half off, where they weren't skating. They took stupid penalties night in and night out when they knew their penalty kill was atrocious. I don't know about you, but in the ECAC it really shouldn't be hard to at least get a home playoff series every year, even being top 4 every year is unrealistic.
Title: Re: Wallowing
Post by: KeithK on March 07, 2013, 02:15:11 AM
Quote from: css228
Quote from: Trotsky
Quote from: css228Yes, but I think we can all agree that for a team this talented, a bottom four finish was flat out unacceptable. Not much changes if they finish 8th as opposed to 9th, but still I don't really think its entitlement if you're disappointed when your team has a losing season, with a 500ish record at home. If you're okay with that, you're actively supporting mediocrity.

Variance.  We'll see what happens next year.  If this is a blip then all the talk about "flat out unacceptable" or "actively supporting mediocrity" is just bloviation that belongs on Bleacher Report.

If it's a trend, I'll worry about it.  Right now annoyance at the team turning in a poor season is significantly lower than annoyance at fans who want to audition for Mike Francesa's job.
Variance doesn't take a top 4 team and turn it into a bottom 4 team over night. We're not talking SEC football here. The ECAC is not a top to bottom good conference. We lost this season to the 42nd, 43rd, 45th, and 46th rated teams in KRACH. In fact we got a combined 3 points in the 7 games against the worst teams we played this season. How is that in any regards acceptable in any season. The team took a month and a half off, where they weren't skating. They took stupid penalties night in and night out when they knew their penalty kill was atrocious. I don't know about you, but in the ECAC it really shouldn't be hard to at least get a home playoff series every year, even being top 4 every year is unrealistic.
I don't think he's saying that this season's performance is due to bad bounces or breaks or some other sort of random effect. Just that there is variance in human endeavors and sometimes the outcome isn't determined by the true talent level you see on paper. If it turns out to be a one year blip then hopefully this season will help us appreciate success all the more. If it turns into a trend we can reassess then.
Title: Re: Wallowing
Post by: Tom Lento on March 07, 2013, 02:57:09 AM
Quote from: Ben
Quote from: Tom LentoBC is the only one of those three teams to take home the national title since NoDak last won it in 2000.
As the son of a Badger, I'm obligated to remind you of Wisconsin's 2006 national title.

I'm totally confused by this, since a) I mentioned Wisconsin's national title in the post and b) the "three teams" in question here are BC, NoDak, and Michigan. What do the Badgers have to do with anything?

(edit - I just realized maybe you're talking about Wisconsin beating BC in 2006, although BC did return the favor in 2010)
Title: Re: Wallowing
Post by: Trotsky on March 07, 2013, 09:58:34 AM
Quote from: RichHFor those of you who see the regular season as a "championship" to be won, I can only guess you're mad.

Hey!  I'm one of those people! ::smashfreak::


Quote from: RichHSo why are people who were so vocal in giving up on the team last month still coming here regularly? When I quit, I commit to stay quitted.]

"Stacy, we broke up two months ago."

"Well, that doesn't mean we can't still go out, does it?"
Title: Re: Wallowing
Post by: Trotsky on March 07, 2013, 10:07:08 AM
Quote from: KeithK
Quote from: css228
Quote from: Trotsky
Quote from: css228Yes, but I think we can all agree that for a team this talented, a bottom four finish was flat out unacceptable. Not much changes if they finish 8th as opposed to 9th, but still I don't really think its entitlement if you're disappointed when your team has a losing season, with a 500ish record at home. If you're okay with that, you're actively supporting mediocrity.

Variance.  We'll see what happens next year.  If this is a blip then all the talk about "flat out unacceptable" or "actively supporting mediocrity" is just bloviation that belongs on Bleacher Report.

If it's a trend, I'll worry about it.  Right now annoyance at the team turning in a poor season is significantly lower than annoyance at fans who want to audition for Mike Francesa's job.
Variance doesn't take a top 4 team and turn it into a bottom 4 team over night. We're not talking SEC football here. The ECAC is not a top to bottom good conference. We lost this season to the 42nd, 43rd, 45th, and 46th rated teams in KRACH. In fact we got a combined 3 points in the 7 games against the worst teams we played this season. How is that in any regards acceptable in any season. The team took a month and a half off, where they weren't skating. They took stupid penalties night in and night out when they knew their penalty kill was atrocious. I don't know about you, but in the ECAC it really shouldn't be hard to at least get a home playoff series every year, even being top 4 every year is unrealistic.
I don't think he's saying that this season's performance is due to bad bounces or breaks or some other sort of random effect. Just that there is variance in human endeavors and sometimes the outcome isn't determined by the true talent level you see on paper. If it turns out to be a one year blip then hopefully this season will help us appreciate success all the more. If it turns into a trend we can reassess then.

That is mostly what I'm saying, although it is also true that because the season is not all that long, and teams bunch up in the middle. a few bad breaks (or a couple nights not showing up one period) can cost a team 4 or 5 places in the RS.  The average number of points between each place (http://www.tbrw.info/ecac_History/ecac_Points_by_Seed.html) from 3rd to 10th is nearly exactly 2 points.  Since hockey game scores are very close, that means if the random perturbations in a season happen to line up primarily in one direction by pure chance, a team can "plummet" in the standings.

tl;dr: I'd rather be a 20-point team playing its best hockey in March than a 30-point team playing its worst.
Title: Re: Wallowing
Post by: Ben on March 07, 2013, 10:18:14 AM
Quote from: Tom Lento
Quote from: Ben
Quote from: Tom LentoBC is the only one of those three teams to take home the national title since NoDak last won it in 2000.
As the son of a Badger, I'm obligated to remind you of Wisconsin's 2006 national title.

I'm totally confused by this, since a) I mentioned Wisconsin's national title in the post and b) the "three teams" in question here are BC, NoDak, and Michigan. What do the Badgers have to do with anything?

(edit - I just realized maybe you're talking about Wisconsin beating BC in 2006, although BC did return the favor in 2010)
Sorry, I thought you meant five, not three, and were referring to all of the teams you mentioned above.
Title: Re: Wallowing
Post by: marty on March 07, 2013, 11:35:48 AM
Quote from: Trotsky
Quote from: RichHFor those of you who see the regular season as a "championship" to be won, I can only guess you're mad.

Hey!  I'm one of those people! ::smashfreak::


Quote from: RichHSo why are people who were so vocal in giving up on the team last month still coming here regularly? When I quit, I commit to stay quitted.]

"Stacy, we broke up two months ago."

"Well, that doesn't mean we can't still go out, does it?"

So those fans are not married to the team. Friends with benefits?
Title: Re: Wallowing
Post by: Josh '99 on March 07, 2013, 02:05:06 PM
Quote from: jtwcornell91SLU also scored an ENG in overtime (at 4:59!) against us in 1998.  [box (http://www.tbrw.info/seasons/1998/box19980306.pdf)]  IIRC it was to get a really minor seeding advantage, and not a bye or home ice or anything...
I was at that game.  It sucked.
Title: Re: Wallowing
Post by: Trotsky on March 07, 2013, 02:17:31 PM
Quote from: Josh '99
Quote from: jtwcornell91SLU also scored an ENG in overtime (at 4:59!) against us in 1998.  [box (http://www.tbrw.info/seasons/1998/box19980306.pdf)]  IIRC it was to get a really minor seeding advantage, and not a bye or home ice or anything...
I was at that game.  It sucked.

SLU was actually one second from elimination, and winning that game kept them alive for the 10th and final playoff slot.  I remember the SLU fans went batshit crazy and we had no idea why at the time.

That whole road trip sucked, as we lost to Clarkson in overtime on the following night.  IIRC Elliott was injured so Burt was playing for him and in front of him we looked dreadful.  (Elliott then made a triumphant return in the Trojan War the next weekend.)
Title: Re: Wallowing
Post by: BearLover on March 07, 2013, 02:53:40 PM
Quote from: RichH
Quote from: Trotsky
Quote from: css228Yes, but I think we can all agree that for a team this talented, a bottom four finish was flat out unacceptable. Not much changes if they finish 8th as opposed to 9th, but still I don't really think its entitlement if you're disappointed when your team has a losing season, with a 500ish record at home. If you're okay with that, you're actively supporting mediocrity.

Variance.  We'll see what happens next year.  If this is a blip then all the talk about "flat out unacceptable" or "actively supporting mediocrity" is just bloviation that belongs on Bleacher Report.

If it's a trend, I'll worry about it.  Right now annoyance at the team turning in a poor season is significantly lower than annoyance at fans who want to audition for Mike Francesa's job.

The typical ECAC three-tier finish never established itself, thanks to QU's run (10 points ahead is the most since 1984.) Six points separated 3rd from 10th. Compared to most seasons, this ECAC is closer to 2002, when CU finished 9 points in front, and four points separated 3rd from 11th. It's not like we finished buried deep. For those of you who see the regular season as a "championship" to be won, I can only guess you're mad. I've always seen the end of the regular season as "jockeying for a seed" time. This is the time where seasons become successful or not. If this team is  actually hitting their stride, there's no reason to think they can't make a run here. But they have to start playing their best hockey of the year. NOW. (And for their best chances, hopefully they can avoid Connecticut in the QF, should they get past Princeton.)

So why are people who were so vocal in giving up on the team last month still coming here regularly? When I quit, I commit to stay quitted. **]
I don't view the regular season as a championship to be won.  I see it as a less random way to ensure a bid to the national tournament than winning the ECAC tournament.  I also attend every home game and want to see Cornell win.  One of a team's objectives should be winning at home for their fans.  They blew this regular season.  I mean "blew" in both slang senses of the word: a) they sucked this season; b) they blew a great chance to qualify for the national tournament without have to go on a very difficult run in the ECACs.  That's why I said they need to hoist the ECAC trophy for me to consider this season a success.  

Quote from: Trotskytl;dr: I'd rather be a 20-point team playing its best hockey in March than a 30-point team playing its worst.
It doesn't work that way, or if it does, it's a very marginal effect.  The "hot" team is no more likely to win its next game than the "cold" team (given that, on average, the teams are equal).  A team that goes 0-3 13-0 to make the NFL playoffs has been shown to win no more than a team that goes 13-0 0-3.
Title: Re: Wallowing
Post by: TimV on March 07, 2013, 02:54:57 PM
Quote from: Trotsky
Quote from: Tom LentoBC has been to the tournament in 13 of the past 15 seasons, including 10 Frozen Fours and 4 national titles.
North Dakota has been to the tournament in 15 of the past 16 seasons, including 8 Frozen Fours and 2 national titles.
Michigan has been to the tournament for an incredible 22 straight seasons, including 11 Frozen Fours and 2 national titles.
BU has been. . . well, actually, BU hasn't done much better than Cornell during the Schafer era, but they did win a national title.
Wisconsin has. . . ok, actually, Wisconsin has not done as well as Cornell during the Schafer era, but they also won a national title.

Of course, being a juggernaut doesn't guarantee regular championships. BC is the only one of those three teams to take home the national title since NoDak last won it in 2000. I would have thought NoDak or Michigan would have taken one within the last 10-12 years, but it hasn't happened despite a combined 11 Frozen Four appearances for those two schools (with 3 advances to the championship game).

Also, since 2000 (inclusive):

NoDak/BC/UM: 20 FF appearances, 11 finals appearances, 5 titles (BC - 8 FF, 7 finals, 4 titles)
Rest of D-I: 32 FF appearances, 15 finals appearances, 8 titles

Compare that to the ECAC, with a whopping 3 FF appearances and 0 trips to the finals.

People want Cornell to win a title, but when that happens they'll want to be the fourth team in that elite group, and when that happens they'll want to be the equivalent of the Jerry York BC teams.

Everybody "wants" that, but there is a significant difference between aiming for the national title and being satisifed with nothing less.  The former is admirable in a fan; the latter is obnoxious.

Let's look at the period 2000-2012 in NCAA seeds (http://www.tbrw.info/ncaa_History/ncaa_Seeds_by_Team.html).  There are two groups


THE SUPER POWERS

13 Michigan
12 North Dakota
11 UNH
10 BC

THE POWERS

 8 Denver
 8 Maine
 8 Michigan State
 7 BU
 7 CC
 7 Cornell
 7 Wisconsin


Obviously, we would love to eventually move into the upper group, but let's not forget that being in the second group rocks.  If we can maintain that level of play over the next 13 seasons, I will be very happy.

I must be misunderstanding the table.  Why is Minnesota missing?
Title: Re: Wallowing
Post by: Josh '99 on March 07, 2013, 02:59:11 PM
Quote from: Trotsky
Quote from: Josh '99
Quote from: jtwcornell91SLU also scored an ENG in overtime (at 4:59!) against us in 1998.  [box (http://www.tbrw.info/seasons/1998/box19980306.pdf)]  IIRC it was to get a really minor seeding advantage, and not a bye or home ice or anything...
I was at that game.  It sucked.

SLU was actually one second from elimination, and winning that game kept them alive for the 10th and final playoff slot.  I remember the SLU fans went batshit crazy and we had no idea why at the time.

That whole road trip sucked, as we lost to Clarkson in overtime on the following night.  IIRC Elliott was injured so Burt was playing for him and in front of him we looked dreadful.  (Elliott then made a triumphant return in the Trojan War the next weekend.)
More notably (in my opinion anyway), that was the game when Willie Mitchell shot the puck into the Cornell bench after touching up on two simultaneous delayed penalties and hit Schafer in the head.

http://www.elynah.com/news/PastYears/Box98/clark.0307
Title: Re: Wallowing
Post by: Trotsky on March 07, 2013, 03:46:50 PM
Quote from: TimV
Quote from: Trotsky
Quote from: Tom LentoBC has been to the tournament in 13 of the past 15 seasons, including 10 Frozen Fours and 4 national titles.
North Dakota has been to the tournament in 15 of the past 16 seasons, including 8 Frozen Fours and 2 national titles.
Michigan has been to the tournament for an incredible 22 straight seasons, including 11 Frozen Fours and 2 national titles.
BU has been. . . well, actually, BU hasn't done much better than Cornell during the Schafer era, but they did win a national title.
Wisconsin has. . . ok, actually, Wisconsin has not done as well as Cornell during the Schafer era, but they also won a national title.

Of course, being a juggernaut doesn't guarantee regular championships. BC is the only one of those three teams to take home the national title since NoDak last won it in 2000. I would have thought NoDak or Michigan would have taken one within the last 10-12 years, but it hasn't happened despite a combined 11 Frozen Four appearances for those two schools (with 3 advances to the championship game).

Also, since 2000 (inclusive):

NoDak/BC/UM: 20 FF appearances, 11 finals appearances, 5 titles (BC - 8 FF, 7 finals, 4 titles)
Rest of D-I: 32 FF appearances, 15 finals appearances, 8 titles

Compare that to the ECAC, with a whopping 3 FF appearances and 0 trips to the finals.

People want Cornell to win a title, but when that happens they'll want to be the fourth team in that elite group, and when that happens they'll want to be the equivalent of the Jerry York BC teams.

Everybody "wants" that, but there is a significant difference between aiming for the national title and being satisifed with nothing less.  The former is admirable in a fan; the latter is obnoxious.

Let's look at the period 2000-2012 in NCAA seeds (http://www.tbrw.info/ncaa_History/ncaa_Seeds_by_Team.html).  There are two groups


THE SUPER POWERS

13 Michigan
12 North Dakota
11 UNH
10 BC

THE POWERS

 8 Denver
 8 Maine
 8 Michigan State
 7 BU
 7 CC
 7 Cornell
 7 Wisconsin


Obviously, we would love to eventually move into the upper group, but let's not forget that being in the second group rocks.  If we can maintain that level of play over the next 13 seasons, I will be very happy.

I must be misunderstanding the table.  Why is Minnesota missing?

Because I suck.  Minnesota, with 9, is floating in between the two groups.
Title: Re: Wallowing
Post by: RichH on March 07, 2013, 04:02:12 PM
Quote from: BearLover
Quote from: Trotskytl;dr: I'd rather be a 20-point team playing its best hockey in March than a 30-point team playing its worst.
It doesn't work that way, or if it does, it's a very marginal effect.  The "hot" team is no more likely to win its next game than the "cold" team (given that, on average, the teams are equal).  A team that goes 0-3 13-0 to make the NFL playoffs has been shown to win no more than a team that goes 13-0 0-3.

Until you factor in injuries (both publicly known and those more minor/secretive), tinkering with line combinations, and psychological confidence of key players like the goaltender.  A d-man pulling up to finish a check because he's tentative due to a recent penalty, or a winger losing a step because he's skating on a tender ankle both matter.  Ken Dryden himself has written how there were times when his concentration and focus was so acute, the game felt like it was moving in slow-motion for him.  I'm a fan of sports statistical analysis, but I believe that team streaks do happen, and they can be a result of a lot of human factors.
Title: Re: Wallowing
Post by: Towerroad on March 07, 2013, 04:12:52 PM
Quote from: Trotsky
Quote from: TimV
Quote from: Trotsky
Quote from: Tom LentoBC has been to the tournament in 13 of the past 15 seasons, including 10 Frozen Fours and 4 national titles.
North Dakota has been to the tournament in 15 of the past 16 seasons, including 8 Frozen Fours and 2 national titles.
Michigan has been to the tournament for an incredible 22 straight seasons, including 11 Frozen Fours and 2 national titles.
BU has been. . . well, actually, BU hasn't done much better than Cornell during the Schafer era, but they did win a national title.
Wisconsin has. . . ok, actually, Wisconsin has not done as well as Cornell during the Schafer era, but they also won a national title.

Of course, being a juggernaut doesn't guarantee regular championships. BC is the only one of those three teams to take home the national title since NoDak last won it in 2000. I would have thought NoDak or Michigan would have taken one within the last 10-12 years, but it hasn't happened despite a combined 11 Frozen Four appearances for those two schools (with 3 advances to the championship game).

Also, since 2000 (inclusive):

NoDak/BC/UM: 20 FF appearances, 11 finals appearances, 5 titles (BC - 8 FF, 7 finals, 4 titles)
Rest of D-I: 32 FF appearances, 15 finals appearances, 8 titles

Compare that to the ECAC, with a whopping 3 FF appearances and 0 trips to the finals.

People want Cornell to win a title, but when that happens they'll want to be the fourth team in that elite group, and when that happens they'll want to be the equivalent of the Jerry York BC teams.

Everybody "wants" that, but there is a significant difference between aiming for the national title and being satisifed with nothing less.  The former is admirable in a fan; the latter is obnoxious.

Let's look at the period 2000-2012 in NCAA seeds (http://www.tbrw.info/ncaa_History/ncaa_Seeds_by_Team.html).  There are two groups


THE SUPER POWERS

13 Michigan
12 North Dakota
11 UNH
10 BC

THE POWERS

 8 Denver
 8 Maine
 8 Michigan State
 7 BU
 7 CC
 7 Cornell
 7 Wisconsin


Obviously, we would love to eventually move into the upper group, but let's not forget that being in the second group rocks.  If we can maintain that level of play over the next 13 seasons, I will be very happy.

I must be misunderstanding the table.  Why is Minnesota missing?

Because I suck.  Minnesota, with 9, is floating in between the two groups.

I started a similar analysis about a month ago but only went back 5 years and used Tournament Wins and Win% as the gauge of quality. That put us as a middle of the Tournament Pack team 2 wins and 40%

My List:

Teams      Wins Pct
BC         12   92%
Minn Dul    6   75%
Miami       6   55%
Notre D     5   65%
N Dak       5   50%
Mich        5   50%
BU          4   80%
Wisc        4   67%
Ferris      3   75%
UNH         3   43%
RIT         2   67%
Vt          2   50%
Bemidgi     2   50%
Yale        2   40%
Cornell     2   40%
Mass Lowell 1   50%
Denver      1   50%
A bunch of other also rans
Title: Re: Wallowing
Post by: Trotsky on March 07, 2013, 04:16:44 PM
There is a difference in how well a team plays throughout the season.  "Hotness" and "coldness" are problematic terms at best and straw man concepts at worst.  Players are not Strat-O-Matic cards without memory, and improvement (or deterioration) in performance over sub-intervals within a season are not fictions.

Claiming a streak persists from one season to the next is silly.  But claiming that at any given instant a team is equally likely to perform well, independent of recent history of performing well or poorly, is every bit as silly.
Title: Re: Wallowing
Post by: Chris '03 on March 07, 2013, 04:24:23 PM
Quote from: Towerroad
Quote from: Trotsky
Quote from: TimV
Quote from: Trotsky
Quote from: Tom LentoBC has been to the tournament in 13 of the past 15 seasons, including 10 Frozen Fours and 4 national titles.
North Dakota has been to the tournament in 15 of the past 16 seasons, including 8 Frozen Fours and 2 national titles.
Michigan has been to the tournament for an incredible 22 straight seasons, including 11 Frozen Fours and 2 national titles.
BU has been. . . well, actually, BU hasn't done much better than Cornell during the Schafer era, but they did win a national title.
Wisconsin has. . . ok, actually, Wisconsin has not done as well as Cornell during the Schafer era, but they also won a national title.

Of course, being a juggernaut doesn't guarantee regular championships. BC is the only one of those three teams to take home the national title since NoDak last won it in 2000. I would have thought NoDak or Michigan would have taken one within the last 10-12 years, but it hasn't happened despite a combined 11 Frozen Four appearances for those two schools (with 3 advances to the championship game).

Also, since 2000 (inclusive):

NoDak/BC/UM: 20 FF appearances, 11 finals appearances, 5 titles (BC - 8 FF, 7 finals, 4 titles)
Rest of D-I: 32 FF appearances, 15 finals appearances, 8 titles

Compare that to the ECAC, with a whopping 3 FF appearances and 0 trips to the finals.

People want Cornell to win a title, but when that happens they'll want to be the fourth team in that elite group, and when that happens they'll want to be the equivalent of the Jerry York BC teams.

Everybody "wants" that, but there is a significant difference between aiming for the national title and being satisifed with nothing less.  The former is admirable in a fan; the latter is obnoxious.

Let's look at the period 2000-2012 in NCAA seeds (http://www.tbrw.info/ncaa_History/ncaa_Seeds_by_Team.html).  There are two groups


THE SUPER POWERS

13 Michigan
12 North Dakota
11 UNH
10 BC

THE POWERS

 8 Denver
 8 Maine
 8 Michigan State
 7 BU
 7 CC
 7 Cornell
 7 Wisconsin


Obviously, we would love to eventually move into the upper group, but let's not forget that being in the second group rocks.  If we can maintain that level of play over the next 13 seasons, I will be very happy.

I must be misunderstanding the table.  Why is Minnesota missing?

Because I suck.  Minnesota, with 9, is floating in between the two groups.

I started a similar analysis about a month ago but only went back 5 years and used Tournament Wins and Win% as the gauge of quality. That put us as a middle of the Tournament Pack team 2 wins and 40%

My List:

Teams      Wins Pct
BC         12   92%
Minn Dul    6   75%
Miami       6   55%
Notre D     5   65%
N Dak       5   50%
Mich        5   50%
BU          4   80%
Wisc        4   67%
Ferris      3   75%
UNH         3   43%
RIT         2   67%
Vt          2   50%
Bemidgi     2   50%
Yale        2   40%
Cornell     2   40%
Mass Lowell 1   50%
Denver      1   50%
A bunch of other also rans

1. BC is ridiculous.
2. Union has two wins too.
Title: Re: Wallowing
Post by: Ben on March 07, 2013, 06:43:12 PM
Quote from: TrotskyPlayers are not Strat-O-Matic cards without memory, and improvement (or deterioration) in performance over sub-intervals within a season are not fictions.

Claiming a streak persists from one season to the next is silly.
If players' memory matters, then the second statement doesn't follow. Terrible teams stay terrible (in some part) because they don't have a winning mentality, and you can't wipe memory at the end of the season.
Title: Re: Wallowing
Post by: Trotsky on March 07, 2013, 06:45:59 PM
Quote from: Ben
Quote from: TrotskyPlayers are not Strat-O-Matic cards without memory, and improvement (or deterioration) in performance over sub-intervals within a season are not fictions.

Claiming a streak persists from one season to the next is silly.
If players' memory matters, then the second statement doesn't follow. Terrible teams stay terrible (in some part) because they don't have a winning mentality, and you can't wipe memory at the end of the season.
Math "memory" (function differs over time) not wetware memory.
Title: Re: Wallowing
Post by: css228 on March 07, 2013, 07:21:28 PM
Quote from: Ben
Quote from: TrotskyPlayers are not Strat-O-Matic cards without memory, and improvement (or deterioration) in performance over sub-intervals within a season are not fictions.

Claiming a streak persists from one season to the next is silly.
If players' memory matters, then the second statement doesn't follow. Terrible teams stay terrible (in some part) because they don't have a winning mentality, and you can't wipe memory at the end of the season.
Teams also stay consistently terrible because they get bad talent too. So what is this, a lack of talent,  or a poor work ethic?
Title: Re: Wallowing
Post by: Towerroad on March 07, 2013, 07:23:45 PM
Quote from: Trotsky
Quote from: Ben
Quote from: TrotskyPlayers are not Strat-O-Matic cards without memory, and improvement (or deterioration) in performance over sub-intervals within a season are not fictions.

Claiming a streak persists from one season to the next is silly.
If players' memory matters, then the second statement doesn't follow. Terrible teams stay terrible (in some part) because they don't have a winning mentality, and you can't wipe memory at the end of the season.
Math "memory" (function differs over time) not wetware memory.
Long term performance (decades) is an indication of institutional (AD, President, Students, Trustees, Alumni) performance
Medium term performance (years) is an indication of departmental (read coach) performance
Season performance (months) is an indication of the players performance.
Title: Re: UN-Wallowing
Post by: Jim Hyla on March 07, 2013, 08:31:46 PM
I was trolling through some ECAC stats and accumulated these UN-Wallowing ones:


   TEAM    Ave Home   When Playing  Rink
           Attendance  Cornell    Capacity

 1 US       4253                  4267
 2 RPI      3511       3550       5217
 3 Q        3470       3772       3286
 4 Dartmth  3459       3471       4500
 5 Yale     3446       3500       3500
 6 Clarkson 2452       2490       3000
 7 Harvard  2303       3076       2850
 8 PU       2233       2193       2092
 9 Union    2074       2354       2225
10 SLU      1608       1893       3200
11 Colgate  1428       2301       2246
12 Brown    1391       1715       2495

All stats from ECAC website
Title: Re: UN-Wallowing
Post by: Scersk '97 on March 07, 2013, 09:18:43 PM
That Princeton number looks like LYING.  Typical.
Title: Re: UN-Wallowing
Post by: David Harding on March 07, 2013, 10:17:19 PM
Quote from: Jim HylaI was trolling through some ECAC stats and accumulated these UN-Wallowing ones:


   TEAM    Ave Home   When Playing  Rink
           Attendance  Cornell    Capacity

 1 US       4253                  4267
 2 RPI      3511       3550       5217
 3 Q        3470       3772       3286
 4 Dartmth  3459       3471       4500
 5 Yale     3446       3500       3500
 6 Clarkson 2452       2490       3000
 7 Harvard  2303       3076       2850
 8 PU       2233       2193       2092
 9 Union    2074       2354       2225
10 SLU      1608       1893       3200
11 Colgate  1428       2301       2246
12 Brown    1391       1715       2495

All stats from ECAC website
Interesting!  Was that this year or averaged over multiple years?  If the latter, what's the standard deviation?
Title: Re: UN-Wallowing
Post by: Jim Hyla on March 08, 2013, 02:05:43 AM
Quote from: David Harding
Quote from: Jim HylaI was trolling through some ECAC stats and accumulated these UN-Wallowing ones:


   TEAM    Ave Home   When Playing  Rink
           Attendance  Cornell    Capacity

 1 US       4253                  4267
 2 RPI      3511       3550       5217
 3 Q        3470       3772       3286
 4 Dartmth  3459       3471       4500
 5 Yale     3446       3500       3500
 6 Clarkson 2452       2490       3000
 7 Harvard  2303       3076       2850
 8 PU       2233       2193       2092
 9 Union    2074       2354       2225
10 SLU      1608       1893       3200
11 Colgate  1428       2301       2246
12 Brown    1391       1715       2495

All stats from ECAC website
Interesting!  Was that this year or averaged over multiple years?  If the latter, what's the standard deviation?

This year.
Title: Re: UN-Wallowing
Post by: French Rage on March 08, 2013, 11:08:31 AM
Quote from: Jim HylaI was trolling through some ECAC stats and accumulated these UN-Wallowing ones:


   TEAM    Ave Home   When Playing  Rink
           Attendance  Cornell    Capacity

 1 US       4253                  4267
 2 RPI      3511       3550       5217
 3 Q        3470       3772       3286
 4 Dartmth  3459       3471       4500
 5 Yale     3446       3500       3500
 6 Clarkson 2452       2490       3000
 7 Harvard  2303       3076       2850
 8 PU       2233       2193       2092
 9 Union    2074       2354       2225
10 SLU      1608       1893       3200
11 Colgate  1428       2301       2246
12 Brown    1391       1715       2495

All stats from ECAC website

So free pizza equals 900 more fans for Colgate?
Title: Re: UN-Wallowing
Post by: Towerroad on March 08, 2013, 01:53:03 PM
Quote from: French Rage
Quote from: Jim HylaI was trolling through some ECAC stats and accumulated these UN-Wallowing ones:


   TEAM    Ave Home   When Playing  Rink
           Attendance  Cornell    Capacity

 1 US       4253                  4267
 2 RPI      3511       3550       5217
 3 Q        3470       3772       3286
 4 Dartmth  3459       3471       4500
 5 Yale     3446       3500       3500
 6 Clarkson 2452       2490       3000
 7 Harvard  2303       3076       2850
 8 PU       2233       2193       2092
 9 Union    2074       2354       2225
10 SLU      1608       1893       3200
11 Colgate  1428       2301       2246
12 Brown    1391       1715       2495

All stats from ECAC website

So free pizza equals 900 more fans for Colgate?

What I am struggling with is why both Sucks fans bought 2301 extra tickets. Maybe they practice some special math.
Title: Re: UN-Wallowing
Post by: Trotsky on March 08, 2013, 02:29:44 PM
Quote from: TowerroadWhat I am struggling with is why both Sucks fans bought 2301 extra tickets.

Servants.
Title: Re: UN-Wallowing
Post by: billhoward on March 08, 2013, 03:20:26 PM
Three things jump out. Princeton stat has to be wrong. The place is lightly attended except for Harvard and Cornell. For Cornell to draw less than the average ... implausible.

Might average home attendance refer to seats sold, not occupied? Maybe fans buy a ticket package and are more likely to use them when Cornell or Q come to play.

Q draws draws on average 200 more than capacity and Cornell draws 300 more than that. Q does have a nice, wide walkway at the top of the rink that allows standing room without affecting people walking to concession stands, finding restrooms, etcetera, the etcetera probably including leaving early to get to the good parties.
Title: Re: UN-Wallowing
Post by: KeithK on March 08, 2013, 04:32:40 PM
Quote from: billhowardThree things jump out. Princeton stat has to be wrong. The place is lightly attended except for Harvard and Cornell. For Cornell to draw less than the average ... implausible.

Might average home attendance refer to seats sold, not occupied? Maybe fans buy a ticket package and are more likely to use them when Cornell or Q come to play.

Q draws draws on average 200 more than capacity and Cornell draws 300 more than that. Q does have a nice, wide walkway at the top of the rink that allows standing room without affecting people walking to concession stands, finding restrooms, etcetera, the etcetera probably including leaving early to get to the good parties.
Attendance figures are almost certainly ticket sales.  No one in sports announces turn stile totals anymore.  I remember years ago when I was writing up the box fscore for Cornell games I knew I could simply put in the 3836 capacity figure even for games over break when there were lots of empty seats.
Title: Re: UN-Wallowing
Post by: Towerroad on March 08, 2013, 05:00:01 PM
Quote from: Trotsky
Quote from: TowerroadWhat I am struggling with is why both Sucks fans bought 2301 extra tickets.

Servants.
Yes, that explains it.
Title: Re: UN-Wallowing
Post by: French Rage on March 08, 2013, 06:06:57 PM
Looking at USCHO's figures, Princeton was averaging in the 1500s for a while and then bumped up to 1800s last year and 2200s this year.
Title: Re: UN-Wallowing
Post by: ugarte on March 08, 2013, 07:52:57 PM
Quote from: Trotsky
Quote from: TowerroadWhat I am struggling with is why both Sucks fans bought 2301 extra tickets.

Servants.
This is not the dig you think it is.
Title: Re: UN-Wallowing
Post by: Towerroad on March 08, 2013, 08:48:23 PM
Would paid syncophants be more appropriate
Title: Re: UN-Wallowing
Post by: Towerroad on March 08, 2013, 09:12:43 PM
Quote from: ugarte
Quote from: Trotsky
Quote from: TowerroadWhat I am struggling with is why both Sucks fans bought 2301 extra tickets.

Servants.
This is not the dig you think it is.
Would paid syncophants be more appropriate
Title: Re: UN-Wallowing
Post by: Jim Hyla on March 08, 2013, 10:06:10 PM
Princeton attendance stats will take a tumble. 113 is announced attendance for tonights game. (http://www.collegehockeystats.net/1213/boxes/mcorprn1.m08)
Title: Re: UN-Wallowing
Post by: Trotsky on March 08, 2013, 10:17:36 PM
Quote from: Jim HylaPrinceton attendance stats will take a tumble. 113 is announced attendance for tonights game. (http://www.collegehockeystats.net/1213/boxes/mcorprn1.m08)
That can't be right.  They must have dropped a digit.
Title: Re: UN-Wallowing
Post by: Jim Hyla on March 08, 2013, 10:21:15 PM
Quote from: Trotsky
Quote from: Jim HylaPrinceton attendance stats will take a tumble. 113 is announced attendance for tonights game. (http://www.collegehockeystats.net/1213/boxes/mcorprn1.m08)
That can't be right.  They must have dropped a digit.

I don't think it was 1/2 full, but I agree it seems like it was more than that. But regardless, it was awful.
Title: Re: Wallowing
Post by: Trotsky on March 09, 2013, 09:19:18 PM
Thus endeth the wallowing.
Title: Re: Wallowing
Post by: Jim Hyla on March 09, 2013, 09:26:06 PM
Quote from: TrotskyThus endeth the wallowing.

No, no, no....I UNded it 2 nights ago.:-D
Title: Re: Wallowing
Post by: css228 on March 10, 2013, 07:10:53 PM
Well it was a nice rebound while it lasted.
Title: Re: Wallowing
Post by: Jim Hyla on March 10, 2013, 07:13:54 PM
Quote from: css228Well it was a nice rebound while it lasted.

Wow, you don't have any faith, do you?
Title: Re: Wallowing
Post by: BearLover on March 10, 2013, 07:38:57 PM
Well, here goes nothing...
Title: Re: Wallowing
Post by: Ben on March 10, 2013, 07:45:55 PM
Quote from: Jim Hyla
Quote from: css228Well it was a nice rebound while it lasted.

Wow, you don't have any faith, do you?
An aggregate score of 2-8 over two games is, at the least, indicative of differences between the two sides.
Title: Re: Wallowing
Post by: Chris '03 on March 10, 2013, 07:54:44 PM
Quote from: Ben
Quote from: Jim Hyla
Quote from: css228Well it was a nice rebound while it lasted.

Wow, you don't have any faith, do you?
An aggregate score of 2-8 over two games is, at the least, indicative of differences between the two sides.

To be fair, cornell is playing some of its best hockey of late and Q has been playing some of its worst (losses to AIC not withstanding). Q has never been in a position to coast down the stretch before turning it back on. Not all teams can do it.

It won't be easy for cornell to take two of three but it won't be easy for Q either. Looking forward to it.
Title: Re: Wallowing
Post by: css228 on March 10, 2013, 08:01:06 PM
Quote from: Jim Hyla
Quote from: css228Well it was a nice rebound while it lasted.

Wow, you don't have any faith, do you?
It's just when you start irrationally believing when the strongest stomach punches come.
Title: Re: Wallowing
Post by: Rita on March 10, 2013, 08:22:10 PM
Quote from: css228
Quote from: Jim Hyla
Quote from: css228Well it was a nice rebound while it lasted.

Wow, you don't have any faith, do you?
It's just when you start irrationally believing when the strongest stomach punches come.

Yes, the stomach punches come (2005, 2006, 2009 to name a few). It just takes a lot of adult beverages to ease the pain, and having enough optimism to believe in next year.

My way of looking at it is that on the national stage, we are always going to be underdogs. Hope for the best, expect heartbreak, and enjoy the ride. (A very hot Cornell goalie would also help).
Title: Re: Wallowing
Post by: Jim Hyla on March 10, 2013, 08:56:18 PM
Quote from: css228
Quote from: Jim Hyla
Quote from: css228Well it was a nice rebound while it lasted.

Wow, you don't have any faith, do you?
It's just when you start irrationally believing when the strongest stomach punches come.

But, saying what you did implies that it's over, that we have no hope. I disagree, I have some hope. I'm not irrationally believing, just some hope. I wouldn't do more than bet a drink on it. But then again, I don't bet. Put it this way. I'm comfortable enough to have used some of my Marriott points to get a hotel, to try and get tickets from CU tomorrow, and to "waste" my time driving there next weekend. I'll be bringing Snickers and newspapers. Care to join me?

If we win, I'll feel great. If we lose, I'll still have had a good time watching and supporting a team that has given me more than enough pleasure over the years. This team is not the greatest, but they are trying very hard right now. Coach has done a good job getting their heads back together again. Why should I give up on them now. Who knows, the best may be yet to come.
Title: Re: Wallowing
Post by: css228 on March 10, 2013, 09:50:48 PM
Quote from: Jim Hyla
Quote from: css228
Quote from: Jim Hyla
Quote from: css228Well it was a nice rebound while it lasted.

Wow, you don't have any faith, do you?
It's just when you start irrationally believing when the strongest stomach punches come.

But, saying what you did implies that it's over, that we have no hope. I disagree, I have some hope. I'm not irrationally believing, just some hope. I wouldn't do more than bet a drink on it. But then again, I don't bet. Put it this way. I'm comfortable enough to have used some of my Marriott points to get a hotel, to try and get tickets from CU tomorrow, and to "waste" my time driving there next weekend. I'll be bringing Snickers and newspapers. Care to join me?

If we win, I'll feel great. If we lose, I'll still have had a good time watching and supporting a team that has given me more than enough pleasure over the years. This team is not the greatest, but they are trying very hard right now. Coach has done a good job getting their heads back together again. Why should I give up on them now. Who knows, the best may be yet to come.
Think I'll stay in Ithaca and watch a team that didn't take two mid-season breaks.
Title: Re: Wallowing
Post by: Jim Hyla on March 10, 2013, 09:50:49 PM
No place in particular to put this, but here's CHN's report on Jack Parker retiring. (http://www.collegehockeynews.com/news/2013/03/10_report_jack_parker_to_announce.php)
Title: Re: Wallowing
Post by: Jim Hyla on March 10, 2013, 09:54:01 PM
Quote from: css228
Quote from: Jim Hyla
Quote from: css228
Quote from: Jim Hyla
Quote from: css228Well it was a nice rebound while it lasted.

Wow, you don't have any faith, do you?
It's just when you start irrationally believing when the strongest stomach punches come.

But, saying what you did implies that it's over, that we have no hope. I disagree, I have some hope. I'm not irrationally believing, just some hope. I wouldn't do more than bet a drink on it. But then again, I don't bet. Put it this way. I'm comfortable enough to have used some of my Marriott points to get a hotel, to try and get tickets from CU tomorrow, and to "waste" my time driving there next weekend. I'll be bringing Snickers and newspapers. Care to join me?

If we win, I'll feel great. If we lose, I'll still have had a good time watching and supporting a team that has given me more than enough pleasure over the years. This team is not the greatest, but they are trying very hard right now. Coach has done a good job getting their heads back together again. Why should I give up on them now. Who knows, the best may be yet to come.
Think I'll stay in Ithaca and watch a team that didn't take two mid-season breaks.

Nothing wrong with that. I started to write something snarky, but there's more than enough of that already. Enjoy yourself.
Title: Re: Wallowing
Post by: BearLover on March 10, 2013, 11:34:59 PM
Quote from: css228
Quote from: Jim Hyla
Quote from: css228
Quote from: Jim Hyla
Quote from: css228Well it was a nice rebound while it lasted.

Wow, you don't have any faith, do you?
It's just when you start irrationally believing when the strongest stomach punches come.

But, saying what you did implies that it's over, that we have no hope. I disagree, I have some hope. I'm not irrationally believing, just some hope. I wouldn't do more than bet a drink on it. But then again, I don't bet. Put it this way. I'm comfortable enough to have used some of my Marriott points to get a hotel, to try and get tickets from CU tomorrow, and to "waste" my time driving there next weekend. I'll be bringing Snickers and newspapers. Care to join me?

If we win, I'll feel great. If we lose, I'll still have had a good time watching and supporting a team that has given me more than enough pleasure over the years. This team is not the greatest, but they are trying very hard right now. Coach has done a good job getting their heads back together again. Why should I give up on them now. Who knows, the best may be yet to come.
Think I'll stay in Ithaca and watch a team that didn't take two mid-season breaks.
I'm fairly certain they didn't "take" any "breaks," as in, "stop trying," at any point this season.  The effort was always there.  I saw it when they lost to Harvard in the 7th game and when they lost to Princeton in the 15th game.  Saying that they started taking breaks is uninformed sports fan/talking head translation for "They're losing and I don't know why, so I'm just going to assume they aren't trying."  And if they did in fact stop trying, I'd prefer that to them actually being a .500 team, at least as far as giving them a chance against one of the best teams in the country goes.
Title: Re: Wallowing
Post by: css228 on March 10, 2013, 11:58:36 PM
Quote from: BearLover
Quote from: css228
Quote from: Jim Hyla
Quote from: css228
Quote from: Jim Hyla
Quote from: css228Well it was a nice rebound while it lasted.

Wow, you don't have any faith, do you?
It's just when you start irrationally believing when the strongest stomach punches come.

But, saying what you did implies that it's over, that we have no hope. I disagree, I have some hope. I'm not irrationally believing, just some hope. I wouldn't do more than bet a drink on it. But then again, I don't bet. Put it this way. I'm comfortable enough to have used some of my Marriott points to get a hotel, to try and get tickets from CU tomorrow, and to "waste" my time driving there next weekend. I'll be bringing Snickers and newspapers. Care to join me?

If we win, I'll feel great. If we lose, I'll still have had a good time watching and supporting a team that has given me more than enough pleasure over the years. This team is not the greatest, but they are trying very hard right now. Coach has done a good job getting their heads back together again. Why should I give up on them now. Who knows, the best may be yet to come.
Think I'll stay in Ithaca and watch a team that didn't take two mid-season breaks.
I'm fairly certain they didn't "take" any "breaks," as in, "stop trying," at any point this season.  The effort was always there.  I saw it when they lost to Harvard in the 7th game and when they lost to Princeton in the 15th game.  Saying that they started taking breaks is uninformed sports fan/talking head translation for "They're losing and I don't know why, so I'm just going to assume they aren't trying."  And if they did in fact stop trying, I'd prefer that to them actually being a .500 team, at least as far as giving them a chance against one of the best teams in the country goes.
Oh I can tell you exactly why they were losing. Being in the top 2 in penalty minutes combined with a horrendous penalty kill is a great start on that. Not putting the puck in the back of the net, poor puck movement, an anemic power play (result of said poor puck movement), an inability to win the neutral zone or even enter the zone with possession. Pick one. They're all more than valid reasons why we lost. But at some point a lot of it came down to a gigantic and talented team losing net front battles that it never should have, losing battles along the boards that it never should have, guys, who we know can move a puck at least with the competency of an ECHL player, making horrendous mental mistakes on breakouts. Honestly every last little thing that they could do to lose hockey games, they did for 6 weeks straight. And I will be the first to say even a blind squirrel finds a nut occasionally, or else it ceases to be a squirrel, but it sure ain't gonna find a nut twice in one weekend.
Title: Re: Wallowing
Post by: Trotsky on March 11, 2013, 09:57:46 AM
Quote from: BearLoverI'm fairly certain they didn't "take" any "breaks," as in, "stop trying," at any point this season.  The effort was always there.  I saw it when they lost to Harvard in the 7th game and when they lost to Princeton in the 15th game.  Saying that they started taking breaks is uninformed sports fan/talking head translation for "They're losing and I don't know why, so I'm just going to assume they aren't trying."

Different people wallow in different ways.  "Light the torches and march to the castle" is a pretty popular reaction.  I've never cared for it, but it certainly doesn't have any effect on the team so, meh, whatever humps your camel.  ::deadhorse::

Schafer seemed to be concerned about players attempting to *over*-perform: straying outside their roles, taking the law into their own hands, trying to do too much.  That's what he meant by "selfishness" -- putting faith in oneself and one's judgment before the team.  This was particularly galling (and damaging) when the main offenders were upperclassmen, and the bad example could infect the younger players and start a multi-year chain reaction.
Title: Re: Wallowing
Post by: Jim Hyla on March 11, 2013, 01:10:23 PM
Quote from: Trotsky
Quote from: BearLoverI'm fairly certain they didn't "take" any "breaks," as in, "stop trying," at any point this season.  The effort was always there.  I saw it when they lost to Harvard in the 7th game and when they lost to Princeton in the 15th game.  Saying that they started taking breaks is uninformed sports fan/talking head translation for "They're losing and I don't know why, so I'm just going to assume they aren't trying."

Different people wallow in different ways.  "Light the torches and march to the castle" is a pretty popular reaction.  I've never cared for it, but it certainly doesn't have any effect on the team so, meh, whatever humps your camel.  ::deadhorse::

Schafer seemed to be concerned about players attempting to *over*-perform: straying outside their roles, taking the law into their own hands, trying to do too much.  That's what he meant by "selfishness" -- putting faith in oneself and one's judgment before the team.  This was particularly galling (and damaging) when the main offenders were upperclassmen, and the bad example could infect the younger players and start a multi-year chain reaction.

And I think he took care of that concern. People will undoubtably argue, but this may have been one of his better coaching years.

Let the posting begin.:-P
Title: Re: Wallowing
Post by: KeithK on March 11, 2013, 02:14:51 PM
Quote from: Jim Hyla
Quote from: TrotskySchafer seemed to be concerned about players attempting to *over*-perform: straying outside their roles, taking the law into their own hands, trying to do too much.  That's what he meant by "selfishness" -- putting faith in oneself and one's judgment before the team.  This was particularly galling (and damaging) when the main offenders were upperclassmen, and the bad example could infect the younger players and start a multi-year chain reaction.

And I think he took care of that concern. People will undoubtably argue, but this may have been one of his better coaching years.

Let the posting begin.:-P
That's hard for an outsider to judge.  Was the long losing streak Schafer's fault because he didn't control or properly coach the guys?  Or did he manage to take a group that doesn't have great makeup and convince them to play up to their talent level by the end of the season?  Or something completely in between?  I don't know.

I do know that he's not likely to get any acknowledgement for this being a good coaching year.
Title: Re: Wallowing
Post by: Trotsky on March 11, 2013, 02:33:00 PM
Well, the bottom line for all of this is it is speculation -- nobody here knows anything.  If you aren't a player, you don't know what happened.  If you are a player, Christ, turn off the computer and work on the power play or something!
Title: Re: Wallowing
Post by: ugarte on March 11, 2013, 02:39:41 PM
Quote from: Jim Hyla
Quote from: Trotsky
Quote from: BearLoverI'm fairly certain they didn't "take" any "breaks," as in, "stop trying," at any point this season.  The effort was always there.  I saw it when they lost to Harvard in the 7th game and when they lost to Princeton in the 15th game.  Saying that they started taking breaks is uninformed sports fan/talking head translation for "They're losing and I don't know why, so I'm just going to assume they aren't trying."

Different people wallow in different ways.  "Light the torches and march to the castle" is a pretty popular reaction.  I've never cared for it, but it certainly doesn't have any effect on the team so, meh, whatever humps your camel.  ::deadhorse::

Schafer seemed to be concerned about players attempting to *over*-perform: straying outside their roles, taking the law into their own hands, trying to do too much.  That's what he meant by "selfishness" -- putting faith in oneself and one's judgment before the team.  This was particularly galling (and damaging) when the main offenders were upperclassmen, and the bad example could infect the younger players and start a multi-year chain reaction.

And I think he took care of that concern. People will undoubtably argue, but this may have been one of his better coaching years.

Let the posting begin.:-P
Eh. In general, I'd say that if he's coaching in public something isn't working in the locker room. That doesn't make it his fault but I wouldn't turn this year into a counterintuitive praisefest either.
Title: Re: Wallowing
Post by: Rita on March 11, 2013, 02:43:07 PM
Quote from: TrotskyWell, the bottom line for all of this is it is speculation -- nobody here knows anything.  If you aren't a player, you don't know what happened.  If you are a player, Christ, turn off the computer and hit the weight room or something!

Shooter Tutor (http://www.google.com/#hl=en&sugexp=les%3B&gs_rn=5&gs_ri=psy-ab&cp=11&gs_id=11&xhr=t&q=shooter+tutor&es_nrs=true&pf=p&output=search&sclient=psy-ab&rlz=1R2ADFA_enUS482&oq=shooter+tut&gs_l=&pbx=1&bav=on.2,or.r_qf.&bvm=bv.43287494,d.eWU&fp=ad01ce536aee72&biw=1266&bih=553). They need to spend time finding the holes in the goal.
Title: Re: Wallowing
Post by: Swampy on March 11, 2013, 03:12:53 PM
Quote from: KeithK
Quote from: Jim Hyla
Quote from: TrotskySchafer seemed to be concerned about players attempting to *over*-perform: straying outside their roles, taking the law into their own hands, trying to do too much.  That's what he meant by "selfishness" -- putting faith in oneself and one's judgment before the team.  This was particularly galling (and damaging) when the main offenders were upperclassmen, and the bad example could infect the younger players and start a multi-year chain reaction.

And I think he took care of that concern. People will undoubtably argue, but this may have been one of his better coaching years.

Let the posting begin.:-P
That's hard for an outsider to judge.  Was the long losing streak Schafer's fault because he didn't control or properly coach the guys?  Or did he manage to take a group that doesn't have great makeup and convince them to play up to their talent level by the end of the season?  Or something completely in between?  I don't know.

I do know that he's not likely to get any acknowledgement for this being a good coaching year.

If the team wins its next eight games, he might. ::innocent::
Title: Re: Wallowing
Post by: Trotsky on March 11, 2013, 03:36:07 PM
Does anyone else hate that the innocent emoticon looks like its rolling its eyes?
Title: Re: Wallowing
Post by: KeithK on March 11, 2013, 04:03:38 PM
Quote from: Swampy
Quote from: KeithK
Quote from: Jim Hyla
Quote from: TrotskySchafer seemed to be concerned about players attempting to *over*-perform: straying outside their roles, taking the law into their own hands, trying to do too much.  That's what he meant by "selfishness" -- putting faith in oneself and one's judgment before the team.  This was particularly galling (and damaging) when the main offenders were upperclassmen, and the bad example could infect the younger players and start a multi-year chain reaction.

And I think he took care of that concern. People will undoubtably argue, but this may have been one of his better coaching years.

Let the posting begin.:-P
That's hard for an outsider to judge.  Was the long losing streak Schafer's fault because he didn't control or properly coach the guys?  Or did he manage to take a group that doesn't have great makeup and convince them to play up to their talent level by the end of the season?  Or something completely in between?  I don't know.

I do know that he's not likely to get any acknowledgement for this being a good coaching year.

If the team wins its next eight games, he might. ::innocent::
If we win the next eight games I will praise the man as a coaching genius.
Title: Re: Wallowing
Post by: Chris '03 on March 11, 2013, 04:05:28 PM
Quote from: KeithK
Quote from: Swampy
Quote from: KeithK
Quote from: Jim Hyla
Quote from: TrotskySchafer seemed to be concerned about players attempting to *over*-perform: straying outside their roles, taking the law into their own hands, trying to do too much.  That's what he meant by "selfishness" -- putting faith in oneself and one's judgment before the team.  This was particularly galling (and damaging) when the main offenders were upperclassmen, and the bad example could infect the younger players and start a multi-year chain reaction.

And I think he took care of that concern. People will undoubtably argue, but this may have been one of his better coaching years.

Let the posting begin.:-P
That's hard for an outsider to judge.  Was the long losing streak Schafer's fault because he didn't control or properly coach the guys?  Or did he manage to take a group that doesn't have great makeup and convince them to play up to their talent level by the end of the season?  Or something completely in between?  I don't know.

I do know that he's not likely to get any acknowledgement for this being a good coaching year.

If the team wins its next eight games, he might. ::innocent::
If we win the next eight games I will praise the man as a coaching genius.

And wish him well in his new job at BU :-D
Title: Re: Wallowing
Post by: nyc94 on March 11, 2013, 10:16:37 PM
Quote from: Chris '03
Quote from: KeithK
Quote from: Swampy
Quote from: KeithK
Quote from: Jim Hyla
Quote from: TrotskySchafer seemed to be concerned about players attempting to *over*-perform: straying outside their roles, taking the law into their own hands, trying to do too much.  That's what he meant by "selfishness" -- putting faith in oneself and one's judgment before the team.  This was particularly galling (and damaging) when the main offenders were upperclassmen, and the bad example could infect the younger players and start a multi-year chain reaction.

And I think he took care of that concern. People will undoubtably argue, but this may have been one of his better coaching years.

Let the posting begin.:-P
That's hard for an outsider to judge.  Was the long losing streak Schafer's fault because he didn't control or properly coach the guys?  Or did he manage to take a group that doesn't have great makeup and convince them to play up to their talent level by the end of the season?  Or something completely in between?  I don't know.

I do know that he's not likely to get any acknowledgement for this being a good coaching year.

If the team wins its next eight games, he might. ::innocent::
If we win the next eight games I will praise the man as a coaching genius.

And wish him well in his new job at BU :-D

I don't know if it came up here but the Nov./Dec. 2012 issue of Cornell Magazine had a short article about Schafer.  It said his contract "expires in four  years" and that his youngest kid would be finishing high school in 2016.

http://cornellalumnimagazine.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1502&Itemid=56&ed=32
Title: Re: Wallowing
Post by: andyw2100 on March 11, 2013, 11:03:07 PM
Quote from: nyc94I don't know if it came up here but the Nov./Dec. 2012 issue of Cornell Magazine had a short article about Schafer.  It said his contract "expires in four  years" and that his youngest kid would be finishing high school in 2016.

http://cornellalumnimagazine.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1502&Itemid=56&ed=32

And interestingly there's a link on the page with the article to "The Lynah Faithful" which directs here to eLynah.