On an otherwise rough night for Cornell men's sports, the wrestling team came through.
Despite two significant early season injuries and five freshmen in the lineup, Cornell destroyed Binghamton 30-7. The only two matches the Big Red lost were expected losses to likely All-Americans and even those were decently close. Dake dominated and got a pin and spl of the freshmen acquitted themselves well. Once the injuries clear up this could really be a team to reckon with.
Cornell with three dual meet wins, inclusion a 40-0 blanking of Drexel and wins over #9 Central Michigan and #14(IIRC) Oklahoma.
Quote from: ugarteCornell with three dual meet wins, inclusion a 40-0 blanking of Drexel and wins over #9 Central Michigan and #14(IIRC) Oklahoma.
And in a sign that the future looks bright for Cornell Wrestling, Freshman Nashon Garrett (125) won all three of his matches convincingly to run his record to 13-0 and Sophomore Jace Bennett (197) had two major decisions (one over the #19 guy) and a pin to clinch the Oklahoma dual.
Grapple at the Garden was given two or three good plugs at the Cornell-Michigan hockey game Saturday.
Out at the Cliff Keen Las Vegas Open, the Red are in third after day one.
Gartett (125), Dake and Nevinger in the semifinals, five still alive in the consolation bracket. If you want to see something sick, enjoy Dake's first round match against a guy from Northern Colorado who probably regrets waking up this morning: http://www.flowrestling.org/coverage/249935-2012-Cliff-Keen-Las-Vegas-Invitational/video/664520-165-r1-Kyle-Dake-Cornell-vs-Charlie-McMartin-Northern-Colorado
Quote from: ugarteIf you want to see something sick, enjoy Dake's first round match against a guy from Northern Colorado who probably regrets waking up this morning but could nevertheless whip my ass with one pinkie: http://www.flowrestling.org/coverage/249935-2012-Cliff-Keen-Las-Vegas-Invitational/video/664520-165-r1-Kyle-Dake-Cornell-vs-Charlie-McMartin-Northern-Colorado
FYP. Impressive.
Quote from: RobbQuote from: ugarteIf you want to see something sick, enjoy Dake's first round match against a guy from Northern Colorado who probably regrets waking up this morning but could nevertheless whip my ass with one pinkie: http://www.flowrestling.org/coverage/249935-2012-Cliff-Keen-Las-Vegas-Invitational/video/664520-165-r1-Kyle-Dake-Cornell-vs-Charlie-McMartin-Northern-Colorado
FYP. Impressive.
Agreed on both counts.
Dake won at 165, Garrett finished second at 125 (where he was seeded), Nevinger finished 4th at 141 (where he was seeded), Villalonga took sixth at 149 (he was unseeded), Bennet took seventh at 197 (seeded 9th) and Lane took sixth at 285 (unseeded). Good tournament overall for the squad with a third place finish.
Is Bosak injured? Missing him from the lineup certainly hurts the team. We don't look like a podium team for NCAAs thus far, though clearly Dake winning #4 will be the huge story for Cornell and across wrestling this year. If he wrestles Taylor in the NCAA final, this may be the most anticipated NCAA final in history (though I'm not a wrestling history buff).
Other encouraging story so far for the Big Red is the emergence of Nashon Garrett. He looks like an all-American to me, and only a freshman. Intermat has him up to #10 ranking at 125.
NWCA All Star Classic is on Fox sports FCS Pacific from 8 to 10 tonight. Not HD here but still fun. I think this took place in early November.
Quote from: gjk22Is Bosak injured?
Not injured in a way that should affect his wrestling, except to the extent it is affecting his conditioning. He is recovering from a serious staph infection. He is expected to come back well before NCAAs.
NY Times article on Dake and MSG. (http://www.nytimes.com/2012/12/15/sports/kyle-dake-and-other-top-college-wrestlers-take-on-the-garden.html?_r=0)
Rough start against Missouri:
125: Garrett loses (to a higher ranked wrestler)
133: Arujau loses by MD (to a higher ranked wrestler)
141: Nevinger loses (to a lower ranked wrestler)
but then a turnaround
149: Villalonga wins (over a roughly equivalent ranking)
157: Shanaman wins (over a higher ranked wrestler, but not really by much)
Currently 10-6 Mizzou.
165: Dake wins 5-0. Now 10-9 Mizzou... but it's kind of downhill from here...
174: Peppleman comes close but loses 4-3. 13-9 Mizzou.
184: Surprise appearance from Bosak! No more staph. And he's up 3-0 early in the 2d period. And wins 6-0. 13-12 Mizzou.
197: Bennett gets pinned. 19-12 Mizzou.
Hwt, Lane loses 7-1.
22-12 Mizzou final.
Oklahoma State next.
125: Garrett wins
133: Arujua loses
141: Nevinger wins by MD
149: Villalonga loses by MD to #1 in the country
157: Shanaman loses by MD to #2 in the country
OSU leads 11-7 Things don't look good. We're the clear favorite at 184 (if Bosak is wrestling), clear dogs at 157, 174, 197 and Hwt. If Bosak isn't wrestling, we're dogs at all weights after 165.
Up next at 165, #1 Dake vs #3 Caldwell is the most highly anticipated match of the day.
Dake with a dominant 4-1 win. Got a reversal from the bottom in the second and rode hard the most of the second and third. Over 3 minutes RT.
OSU leads 11-10.
174: Pickett gets pinned by the #1 wrestler. 17-10 OSU. Bosak next.
184: Bosak with a narrow 4-3 win.
17-13 OSU. Two losses expected at the top weights; facing two top 10 guys.
197: OSU rested their starter and Bennett beat their backup. 17-16 OSU
Hwt: The #2 wrestler in the country beat Lane by MD.
Final score, Oklahoma State 21, Cornell 16
Lost to two teams ranked ahead of us so this isn't a huge surprise. Dake easily won both of his matches, Bosak came back and won (if not at top form yet). Good enough day.
On Thursday the Ithaca Journal (http://www.theithacajournal.com/article/20121227/SPORTS/312270062/Van-Sickle-Male-Athlete-of-the-Year-Dake-powered-by-a-desire-to-prove-doubters-wrong) announced that Kyle Dake was sharing its Van Sickle Male Athlete of the Year Award with a three-sport athlete from Kyle's high school.
Surprised no mention of the Southern Scuffle. Cornell placed 5th, with the highlight obviously being the Dake-Taylor rematch, which Dake won (semi-controversially?). I'd be curious what some people who are more familiar with wrestling than I am thought of the supposed controversial calls.
Quote from: semsoxSurprised no mention of the Southern Scuffle. Cornell placed 5th, with the highlight obviously being the Dake-Taylor rematch, which Dake won (semi-controversially?). I'd be curious what some people who are more familiar with wrestling than I am thought of the supposed controversial calls.
You might check this thread on the Cornell forum at WrestlingReport.com: http://wrestlingreport.com/current_news/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=40640
Quote from: Al DeFlorioQuote from: semsoxSurprised no mention of the Southern Scuffle. Cornell placed 5th, with the highlight obviously being the Dake-Taylor rematch, which Dake won (semi-controversially?). I'd be curious what some people who are more familiar with wrestling than I am thought of the supposed controversial calls.
You might check this thread on the Cornell forum at WrestlingReport.com: http://wrestlingreport.com/current_news/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=40640
Follow the link there too. Really good discussion over at themat.com. The general belief is that Dake's controversial takedown was definitely the right call but Taylor may have escaped it the last few seconds. It looks like the refs got it right, but if the match went to OT nobody on the Cornell side could have complained much about the result.
Big win for Nevinger at 141 and Garrett at 125 placed a very impressive third.
Long article on Kyle Dake here at ESPN Playbook: http://espn.go.com/blog/playbook/fandom/post/_/id/18432/titles-one-of-wrestler-dakes-many-routines
Wrestlers advanced to quarterfinals of National Duals by whitewashing Hofstra and nipping Nebraska 19-17 this past Sunday. Now seeded #7, they will face #2 Iowa in Minneapolis this Friday night.
Really good loss yesterday for the team in the National Duals against Iowa. We lost 21-16, but, impressively, split the matches 5-5. We lost because Iowa got a pin and three majors among their 5 wins, whereas only Kyle Dake got bonus points in his match for Cornell.
Big wins for Nevinger, Villalonga and Bennett and a surprisingly close win from Bosak. Nahshon Garrett kept it somewhat close against the defending champ at 125 and Aiken-Phillips didn't get pinned at 285 against a returning AA.
This was a very good match for us. I'm more optimistic than I was about EIWAs and NCAAs, though it will still be a comedown from the amazing highs the team hit the last few years.
NY State HS Champioships wrapped up tonight in Albany. Some results that may be of interest:
William Koll (Jr) won the 126 title in Division 2.
Incoming recruit Dan Choi won the 195 title in Division 1.
Incoming recruit Dylan Realbuto placed third at 126 in Division 1.
Troy Nickerson's nephew, Kyle Kelly failed to win his 3rd title, placing 2nd at 113 in Division 1.
Nick Arujau's brother, Vito (8th grade) placed 2nd, losing in 3OTs at 99 in Division 1.
Quote from: ithacatNick Arujau's brother, Vito (8th grade) placed 2nd, losing in 3OTs at 99 in Division 1.
Thanks for all of this. Any chance you know what is going on with Nick?
Quote from: ugarteQuote from: ithacatNick Arujau's brother, Vito (8th grade) placed 2nd, losing in 3OTs at 99 in Division 1.
Thanks for all of this. Any chance you know what is going on with Nick?
No. Hopefully he's back next season.
A local public radio show in Hartford had both Kyle Dake and Coach Koll on as guests today to weigh in (harrrr) on the recent IOC decision to drop Olympic Wrestling. Kyle's bit starts somewhere in the 8:00 range.
http://www.yourpublicmedia.org/node/24437
I was also impressed by the performance against Iowa. Iowa was ranked #2 and always has a stable of studs on hand. I was impressed with Garrett giving McDonough a run, and Bennett and Nevinger both beating higher seeded wrestlers. This bodes well.
Potential All-Americans: Garrett (125), Nevinger (141), Dake (165) and Bozak (184)
Win some matches at NCAAs: Villalonga (149)
Make NCAAs(?): Bennett (197)
Not looking great: 133,157,174,HWT
Even the "not looking great" guys have a shot:
Stryker Lane, if healthy, should make the NCAA. He's one of the top four in the EIWA at Hvy and the top four go.
Shanaman has a shot at 157, where the top 5 go and he's ranked #6.
Dixon has to make the finals at 133, but he's beaten the #2 guy in the league.
I have no clue what may happen at 174.
Cornell is well on its way to another EIWA title. As for NCAAs, here is the breakdown.
Qualified for NCAAs: Garrett (125), Nevinger (141), Dake (165) and Bozak (184)
Failed to qualify for NCAAs: Dixon (133) and Peppelman (174)
Need to win next match to earn top 4 and qualify: Villalonga (149) and Lane (HWT)
Need to win one of the next two matches to earn top 5 and qualify: Bennett (197) and Shanaman (157)
I'm not sure how the at-large spots work, but I'm hoping that between those and some good wrestling this morning, Cornell can get 7 or 8 to the big tournament.
Dixon wins 4-2 to take 7th.
Nevinger wins 5-3 in SV, will wrestle Keith (Harvard) for 3d. (What is up with Nevinger? Not having a good tournament.)
Villalonga wins 7-1, will wrestle Borja (Navy) for 3d.
Shanaman loses 8-2, will wrestle Winston (Rutgers) for 5th and a spot in the tournament. (I don't see him getting a WC but it is possible, I guess.)
Peppleman wins 4-2 to take 7th.
Bennett wins 10-2, will wrestle Barnes (Army) for 3d.
Lane wins 8-7 in OT, will wrestle the winner of Graziano (Penn) v. Stolfi (Bucknell) for 3d.
7 qualified, Shanaman still has a shot.
125: Nahshon Garrett wins EIWA as a freshman. Will go to the NCAAs and have a pretty solid seed there. He was #5 going into EIWAs and has not lost to a wrestler outside of the current top 3 this season. Great year for him so far.
133: Bricker Dixon finishes in 7th place. His season is over. He was the 3d seed, so this was a disappointing finish, but only the top two seeds from this weight were going to the NCAAs anyway. Probably won't see a lot of action next year as two-time All-American Mike Grey's younger brother Mark is almost certainly going to step into this spot next year. Still, not bad for a guy who wasn't supposed to see much time this year behind Nick Arujau (who was benched under still-somewhat-mysterious circumstances).
141: Mike Nevinger wins his last match and finishes in 3d. This is disappointing, as he was the top seed, but he will still go to the NCAAs. This performance may have cost him a seed, however, and he could end up with a very bad first round draw. Nevinger was an All-American last year and I'd love to see that again.
149: Chris Villalonga finishes 4th with a medical forfeit. He matched his seed and will go to the NCAA tournament for the second time. I haven't read anything about the injury so I suspect it wasn't serious. He wasn't expected to get seeded at NCAAs so I figure any small tweak would be enough to forfeit this essentially meaningless match.
157: Jesse Shanaman loses his final match to finish 6th. This SV loss probably cost him a spot in the NCAA tournament. It is plausible that he gets a WC - he was the 6th seed and the top 5 seeds all qualified - but he has a losing record for the year so I'd be surprised. Disappointing career so far given his HS pedigree.
165: Kyle Dake blows through the field and wins his third EIWA title. He had two first period pins, a major decision (>7 points) and a technical fall (15 point mercy rule). Named outstanding wrestler of the tournament. He will be going to the NCAAs and trying for his 4th NCAA title, all at different weights and (IIRC) would be the first to do so. He is already the first person to take 3 titles in 3 years without a redshirt. He hasn't lost a match since the finals of the EIWA tournament his sophomore year. IIRC, he hasn't even given up an offensive point since that match. Anyway, he's pretty good.
174: Marshall Peppleman takes 7th place. Man. He was supposed to be a stud coming out of high school. Disappointing tournament, disappointing season. It seems mean to say that about a kid but it's true. I read that his brother didn't break through until his junior year, so fingers crossed for this guy.
184: Steve Bosak wins his first EIWA title, and will go to the NCAAs to defend his national title, likely as the 4 seed. Missed a lot of the season due to injury but came back solid if not spectacular early. He only lost to the #1 and #3 wrestlers and came on strong at the end of the year.
197: Jace Bennett takes 3d and will go to his first NCAA tournament as a Junior. Solid season for Bennett.
285: Stryker Lane loses by MD and finishes 4th but will go to his first NCAA tournament in his senior season.
Cornell won the team title going away.
7 wrestlers will represent the Red at NCAAs.
Villalonga was injured during the match but it wasn't clear to me what the problem was. Since he advanced to NCAA regardless of outcome and since the team trophy was not in danger, I am guessing he forfeited to avoid a more serious injury.
Stryker Lane was also injured during his last match and it looked like it involved his already-injured knee. To his credit, he did not forfeit; he continued the match, giving up the major decision. If you will recall, Lane was injured during a key match [the duals?] where the outcome of his match made the difference in the meet and he kept wrestling even though he could barely bend his leg. He may not have stood at the top of the podium this afternoon, but Stryker Lane earned the right to advance.
Quote from: ugarte174: Marshall Peppleman takes 7th place. Man. He was supposed to be a stud coming out of high school. Disappointing tournament, disappointing season. It seems mean to say that about a kid but it's true. I read that his brother didn't break through until his junior year, so fingers crossed for this guys.
I think his brother was an AA as a sophomore. Hopefully he breaks out next year.
The recruiting rankings are highly variable, inevitably some guys are late bloomers and others live up to the hype or exceed it. I remember when we placed 2nd at NCAAs in 2010, and then we signed the class with the #3 and #5 recruits (see below), I thought we would become unstoppable and win the title in '11 or '12. However, there is not too much to be made with recruiting rankings, a top 5 guy can be Kyle Dake or Marshall Peppleman, and a #66 recruit can be Nashon Garrett or someone that never cracks the lineup. If anything, I try not to hold it against a guy for being highly touted, that is out of their control.
Top Recruits in recent years(ranking is overall, not weight specific)
2009, Dake #4
2010, Villalonga, #3
2010, Peppelman, #5
2010, Shanaman, #63
2011, Dixon, #49
2011, Garrett, #66
The NCAA, anticipating a Dake vs. Taylor match, has rearranged the order of the finals at the championships to make 165 the final bout.
http://www.desmoinesregister.com/article/20130313/SPORTS/303140053/Andy-Hamilton-NCAA-s-unusual-change-for-wrestling-finals?Sports
Quote from: WederThe NCAA, anticipating a Dake vs. Taylor match, has rearranged the order of the finals at the championships to make 165 the final bout.
http://www.desmoinesregister.com/article/20130313/SPORTS/303140053/Andy-Hamilton-NCAA-s-unusual-change-for-wrestling-finals?Sports
A really chicken-shit move, in my opinion, therefore not a surprise coming from the NCAA.
Quote from: Al DeFlorioQuote from: WederThe NCAA, anticipating a Dake vs. Taylor match, has rearranged the order of the finals at the championships to make 165 the final bout.
http://www.desmoinesregister.com/article/20130313/SPORTS/303140053/Andy-Hamilton-NCAA-s-unusual-change-for-wrestling-finals?Sports
A really chicken-shit move, in my opinion, therefore not a surprise coming from the NCAA.
Good ol' E$PN. Throwing its weight around, messing with everything. Again.
too bad the olympics dont care at all and people complain about ESPN doing this ?
They are just trying to increase the excitement associated with the event, and if there is one thing wrestling needs, its more attention/fans/excitement. In this way, I am OK with it. And if there is anything we have learned about Dake in the past 3 years, it's that he generally rises to the occasion. The bigger the occasion, the better he will be.
We've got 7 wrestlers in the tournament. Here are their seeds:
125: Nahshon Garrett #6
141: Mike Nevinger #11
149: Chris Villalonga UR
165: Kyle Dake #1
184: Steve Bosak #4
197: Jace Bennett UR
285: Stryker Lane UR
The tournament starts next Thursday. Let's Go Red!
Nice YouTube video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gRUVFIwfL0E) about Kyle Dake.
Tough start for the Big Red.
Nahshon Garrett, Steve Bosak and Kyle Dake - as expected - all won their first round matches. Garrett and Bosak won by MD, Dake coasted to a 3-0 win (either that guy just didn't want to be embarrassed or Dake decided to save his energy).
But oh boy. Nevinger lost because he is still having trouble from neutral and couldn't dominate on top (gave up an escape point in regulation and a reversal in the TB round). Bennett and Lane lost by MD and Villalonga lost as well.
7 wrestlers, 5 team points in the first round. That hasn't happened to Cornell in a long time.
The second round and consolation bracket start this evening at 7:30 Eastern.
"The only thing I really appreciate in a joke is originality which should explain why I hate the Harvard Sucks thread so much."
Jerk.
Quote from: Roy 82"The only thing I really appreciate in a joke is originality which should explain why I hate the Harvard Sucks thread so much."
Jerk.
That took far too long. Typical.
Quote from: Roy 82"The only thing I really appreciate in a joke is originality which should explain why I hate the Harvard Sucks thread so much."
Jerk.
As Grandma said: Once funny, twice silly.
Bad News:
On the bottom of the bracket, Cornell wound up having its worst Day 1 in recent memory.
It started strong, with Jace Bennett pinning his first opponent in the consolation bracket, but it wouldn't last: Bennett lost his next match and Villalonga and Lane both went 0-2 at the tournament.
Lane is a senior, and making the tournament is an achievement in itself, and a solid way to finish his career. Good luck, Stryker.
Bennett is a sophomore and will have this experience to grow on. He bounced around weight classes a lot this year, fitting in wherever Koll needed him. He'll probably settle into 197 next year and make a run at All-American.
Villalonga is a junior, and was one of the most highly touted recruits in the last few years. His performance has been very disappointing to date. He has one year left to vindicate his high school reputation.
OK News:
Nevinger won his match and remains in the hunt. He'll need to win three tough matches to make it back to the podium. His path to All-America goes through the #12 seed Friday morning, followed by the winner of a match between two unseeded wrestlers he has already lost to this year, followed by a match against the #7 seed (if he's lucky; if he's unlucky, it's #2).
Good News:
125: #6 Nahshon Garrett will face #3 McDonough of Iowa in the QF. McDonough won 8-3 earlier this year but hasn't been as sharp in recent months. An upset here for the freshman would be fantastic.
165: #1 Kyle Dake hasn't given up a point. He won his first two matches 3-0 and 10-0, against wrestlers who it seems are mostly just trying to stay off of their backs. His opponent in the QF is the #8 seed, and not to look past him... but let's look past him. We're also going to look past the quality opponent he is likely to face in the SF. The expected final is against defending 165 Champion #2 David Taylor who has pinned both of his opponents without breaking a sweat. The 165 final is so highly anticipated that the NCAA has switched the order of the Finals matches so that they will start at 174 and finish with the expected high-profile Dake-Taylor match. It will match up a senior, 3X champ vs. a junior, defending champ (and 2X finalist). Real deal at this weight class.
184: #4 Steve Bosak has two shutout wins so far in defense of his NCAA title. He had a 12-0 waltz in the first round followed by a 2-0 slog in the second. He will next face the #12 wrestler, who he narrowly defeated at National Duals earlier this year. The expected semifinal is a matchup of 2012 champions. would be against last year's 174 champ, pinning machine Ed Ruth. Everyone was kind of hoping Bosak would get the #3 seed after a higher-ranked Lehigh wrestler medically defaulted out of the conference tournament just to push this match back to the final but it wasn't to be. (Honestly, I think that was fair; the Lehigh guy has Bosak's number. Hamlin has won 5 of 6 head to head matches.) I'll worry about the other half of the bracket (which includes Hamlin) if Bosak gets by Ruth (and Lofthouse).
Matches start at 11am Eastern.
Great start to day 2!
Nahshon Garrett beats Matt McDonough - a three-time finalist, two-time NCAA champion - in the QF to move into the national semifinals as a true freshman. He is automatically an All-American and can finish no lower than 6th. Congrats, kid.
McDonough got a takedown in the first; Garrett escaped after a little under 30 seconds. Garrett started down in the second and escaped in a little over 30 seconds. After 2, the score was tied and McDonough had 1:01 in riding time - and that second would be crucial. In the third, Garrett rode McDonough the whole period. At the end of regulation, the score was still 2-2 and Garrett had :59 in RT. If he had one more second of RT, he'd have been awarded a point and won in regulation. No matter, though: about 30 seconds into SV, Garrett dropped McDonough on his ass for the 4-2 win (on what I am told was a great shot).
Day 2 still going well!
Mike Nevinger got the pin at 4:12 to move on in his match. He will face Hucke (Mizzou), a 15-14 wrestler who upset Nevinger earlier this year. As expected, the winner will face #7 Ballweg for a spot on the podium.
No scoring in the first period. Nevinger started the second on top and it took him a little over a minute to turn Mecate on his back for the pin. Great work, Mike.
Dake keeps on truckin'. 13-0 win over Sultzer. Up next is #4 Caldwell who Dake beat 4-1 earlier this year.
Meanwhile, on the other side of the bracket, #2 Taylor pinned #7 Polz in 24 seconds. Taylor didn't face his opponent, #3 Peter Yates, this year but pinned him last year.
Dake and Taylor are really building up the anticipation for the final by being unstoppable.
If all continues as expected, what day and time would the Dake-Taylor match be? And do you know if it's ESPN or ESPN2?
Bosak rolls on to the semis with a 4-1 win. Up next is the match against Ruth who continues to dominate everyone he faces. Undefeated Bennett and Bosak nemesis Hamlin face off in the other semi.
Only match left for Cornell in the early session is Nevinger v. Hucke to go to the Round of 12.
Quote from: KenPIf all continues as expected, what day and time would the Dake-Taylor match be? And do you know if it's ESPN or ESPN2?
Tomorrow night, don't know the network. I think the finals start at 8PM? Someone will post more accurate info by then.
Perfect morning for the Big Red.
Nevinger avenges his loss to Hucke with a 7-2 win. He is one match away from repeating as All-American. He'll face #7 Mark Ballweg (Iowa), who he beat earlier this year.
Tonight:
125 SF: #6 Garrett v. #2 Delgado (Illinois)
165 SF: #1 Dake v. #4 Caldwell (Oklahoma State)
184 SF: #4 Bosak v. #1 Ruth (Penn State)
141 C4: #11 Nevinger v. #7 Ballweg (Iowa)
I think Cornell is tied for 5th heading into tonight, but I stopped paying attention after the last Cornellian wrestled today.
Quote from: ugarteTonight:
125 SF: #6 Garrett v. #2 Delgado (Illinois)
165 SF: #1 Dake v. #4 Caldwell (Oklahoma State)
184 SF: #4 Bosak v. #1 Ruth (Penn State)
141 C4: #11 Nevinger v. #7 Ballweg (Iowa)
Tonight is on ESPNU starting at 7pm EDT.
It follow Yale @ Princeton men's lax (live).
Nahshon Garrett can't handle #2 Delgado and falls 10-5. He goes to the consolation bracket; his opponent is still undetermined. Winner of an unseeded wrestler from Minnesota who has been tearing up the bottom of the bracket and either #5 or #8 (I didn't catch who won that match). Still in the running for third.
BUT MAN OH MAN! Mike Nevinger beats Mark Ballweg 12-8 in a wild match and is an All American for the second year in a row! He took an early 4-0 lead which he held through a scoreless first period. In the third, Nevinger and Ballweg started scoring on each other like crazy (mostly Ballweg TD and reversals and Nevinger escapes) but Nevinger had too big a lead for Ballweg to score enough to win. Crazy. Wish I could have seen it on something other than wrestling's version of LiveStats.
Dake's semifinal coming soon...
Quote from: ugarteDake's semifinal coming soon...
Around 8:30 pm EDT
Up next on the mat: Kyle Dake.
Just came across this ESPN article on Dake, Taylor, and NCAA wrestling's impact on keeping wrestling in the Olympics:
http://espn.go.com/college-sports/story/_/id/9070875/ncaa-wrestling-championships-anticipate-bout-cornell-big-red-kyle-dake-penn-state-nittany-lions-david-taylor
Dake wins 2-0, #2 Taylor (Penn State) gets another pin, so the match of the decade or whatever, it's on as the last match Saturday night, so that would be around 9:30-10:00 Eastern.
Quote from: cth95Just came across this on the bottom left of ESPN's home page:
http://espn.go.com/college-sports/story/_/id/9070875/ncaa-wrestling-championships-anticipate-bout-cornell-big-red-kyle-dake-penn-state-nittany-lions-david-taylor
This:
QuoteThe NCAA Division I wrestling championship is one of only five NCAA championships that made money in 2012. Between ticket sales, programs and merchandise, the tournament netted more than $500,000 for the NCAA. That ranked third behind men's basketball and men's ice hockey, topping every other championship, including the College World Series and the women's basketball tournament.
:-)
And this:
QuoteSaturday night finals at 8 p.m. on ESPN.
And, and this:
Quote"Most of the time, people run away from the competition, especially if they're friends," says Dake. "It's just a sport, though. Nothing that's going to happen on the mat is going to ruin anything. We're both going out there to win and put on a show."
So... on tap for tomorrow.
165: Dake vs Taylor for All The Tostitos
125: Nahshon Garrett v #5 Jarrod Garnett (Va. Tech). The opposite side of the consy semi is #1 Waters (Mizzou) / #9 Sprenkle (ND St.)
141: Mike Nevinger v #1 Hunter Steiber (Ohio St.). The opposite side of the consy semi is #5 Henderson (UNC) / #6 Kishignyam (Citadel)
184: Steve Bosak v #7 Jimmy Sheptock (Maryland). The opposite side of the consy semi is #2 Bennett (CMU) / #12 Lofthouse (Iowa)
Going into tomorrow, Cornell is in 5th place. Penn State is running away with the team title again.
Quote from: billhowardDake wins 2-0, #2 Taylor (Penn State) gets another pin, so the match of the decade or whatever, it's on as the last match Saturday night, so that would be around 9:30-10:00 Eastern.
Note picture of winner Taylor and crestfallen Dake at 2006 Junior Nationals in this article (http://www.win-magazine.com/friends-forever-fathers-of-david-taylor-and-kyle-dake-talk-about-their-sons-friendship/) on their longterm friendship. Here's hoping that this time Dake is on top of the podium.
Quote from: George64Quote from: billhowardDake wins 2-0, #2 Taylor (Penn State) gets another pin, so the match of the decade or whatever, it's on as the last match Saturday night, so that would be around 9:30-10:00 Eastern.
Note picture of winner Taylor and crestfallen Dake at 2006 Junior Nationals in this article (http://www.win-magazine.com/friends-forever-fathers-of-david-taylor-and-kyle-dake-talk-about-their-sons-friendship/) on their longterm friendship. Here's hoping that this time Dake is on top of the podium.
In the last year, Dake pinned Taylor at the freestyle wrestling championships and has beaten him 3-2 twice this year. Taylor racks up points and pins against lesser wrestlers more aggressively than Dake does but Dake's defense and caution is what distinguishes him, plus he's actually strong enough to take Taylor down when he sees his opening. I'm surprised so many experts have chosen Taylor since this is basically how all of their matches play out now: Taylor can't score, Dake can barely score, Dake wins.
That said, one mistake by Kyle and he's in trouble because Taylor doesn't miss openings.
True freshman Nahshon Garrett starts the morning with a huge 13-9 comeback win over #5 redshirt senior Jarrod Garnett of Virginia Tech. He fell behind 6-1 early in the second period and stormed back, dominating the rest of the match. He'll wrestle #1 Allan Waters of Missouri for 3rd place. Waters pinned his consolation semifinal opponent in the first round and is probably still smarting from his first loss of the year in the championship semifinal.
Meanwhile, #1 Hunter Steiber, also angry over HIS first loss of the year, took it out on Mike Nevinger, beating him 9-0. Nevinger will wrestle #5 Henderson of North Carolina for 5th place.
Steve Bosak wins his consy semifinal 4-0 and will face #2 Ben Bennett of CMU for third place.
Good showing so far. Cornell is still in 5th. Garrett's 3d place match is coming up.
Nahson Garrett takes third place!
Great win over the #1 seed. Dominant, too. He rode Waters the whole second period and tilted him for 2 points near the end of it. He escaped quickly in the third and took Waters down to take a 5-0 lead and held him down until there were ~12 seconds left. With the RT point, Garrett won 6-1. What an amazing finish for Garrett. We've got three more years of him too.
Awesome.
Nevinger's 5th place match coming soon.
HUGE win for Mike Nevinger to take 5th place. He dominated Henderson and finished with a 9-2 win, just seconds away from a MD.
This is Nevinger's second year as an All-American and a one spot improvement over his 6th place finish from last year. We've got one more year of him, too!
After a rough first day, this has been a damn good tournament. Cornell is still in 5th place, just ahead of Missouri.
Day keeps getting better.
#4 Bosak 2-0 over #2 Ben Bennett of Central Michigan to take third place.
The senior is an All-American for the third straight year. 4th in 2011, Championship in 2012, 3rd in 2013. What a great finish.
I think Cornell is locked into 5th place, though it is possible that if Dake loses and Steiber of Ohio State pins his opponent in the 133 final that may be enough to pass us.
Quote from: ugarteDay keeps getting better.
#4 Bosak 2-0 over #2 Ben Bennett of Central Michigan to take third place.
The senior is an All-American for the third straight year. 4th in 2011, Championship in 2012, 3rd in 2013. What a great finish.
I think Cornell is locked into 5th place, though it is possible that if Dake loses and Steiber of Ohio State pins his opponent in the 133 final that may be enough to pass us.
Only Ruth could have beaten Bosak. Shame the seedings paired them in the semis.
Quote from: Al DeFlorioQuote from: ugarteDay keeps getting better.
#4 Bosak 2-0 over #2 Ben Bennett of Central Michigan to take third place.
The senior is an All-American for the third straight year. 4th in 2011, Championship in 2012, 3rd in 2013. What a great finish.
I think Cornell is locked into 5th place, though it is possible that if Dake loses and Steiber of Ohio State pins his opponent in the 133 final that may be enough to pass us.
Only Ruth could have beaten Bosak. Shame the seedings paired them in the semis.
That's a little unfair to Hamlin who has had his number their whole careers.
Quote from: ugarteDay keeps getting better.
#4 Bosak 2-0 over #2 Ben Bennett of Central Michigan to take third place.
The senior is an All-American for the third straight year. 4th in 2011, Championship in 2012, 3rd in 2013. What a great finish.
I think Cornell is locked into 5th place, though it is possible that if Dake loses and Steiber of Ohio State pins his opponent in the 133 final that may be enough to pass us.
Thank you for the running updates.
Quote from: David HardingQuote from: ugarteDay keeps getting better.
#4 Bosak 2-0 over #2 Ben Bennett of Central Michigan to take third place.
The senior is an All-American for the third straight year. 4th in 2011, Championship in 2012, 3rd in 2013. What a great finish.
I think Cornell is locked into 5th place, though it is possible that if Dake loses and Steiber of Ohio State pins his opponent in the 133 final that may be enough to pass us.
Thank you for the running updates.
I'd say you're welcome but this is really more a compulsion than something done for the benefit of the board. (You're welcome!)
FYI, finals start tonight at 7pm
CST. Dake won't go up for a while after that, as he is the 10th match of the night.
Please, if you happen to have my number (BEEEEJ) DON'T text me anything about the results. I'm going to be watching this on DVR late tonight.
Dake match up next
He's amazing
thats great, lead on sportscenter right now
That was the best goddamn match I've ever seen. Despite being jobbed by the ref TWICE, Dake dominated Taylor in all aspects of the match. He won 5-4 but it wasn't that close. Dake escaped quickly, he rode hard, he got a takedown when he needed to and he earned that win.
Kyle Dake: first wrestler to win three titles in three years without a redshirt year; first wrestler to win four titles in four different weight classes; undefeated his junior and senior years. 2010 National Champion at 141; 2011 National Champion at 149; 2012 National Champion at 157; 2013 National Champion at 165. And when they look back at this, they will see that in the 2013 finals he beat a two-time national champion in David Taylor, because without Kyle Dake in his way, Taylor is going to blow through college wrestling next year and make all of this seem even more impressive in retrospect.
I am so happy to have gotten to watch him wrestle.
Cornell finishes in 5th place, they AGAIN have four All-Americans and the incoming freshman class looks top-notch. Get on the Cornell Wrestling bandwagon, everyone. It's a fun ride.
Quote from: ugarteThat was the best goddamn match I've ever seen. Despite being jobbed by the ref TWICE, Dake dominated Taylor in all aspects of the match. He won 5-4 but it wasn't that close. Dake escaped quickly, he rode hard, he got a takedown when he needed to and he earned that win.
Kyle Dake: first wrestler to win three titles in three years without a redshirt year; first wrestler to win four titles in four different weight classes; undefeated his junior and senior years. 2010 National Champion at 141; 2011 National Champion at 149; 2012 National Champion at 157; 2013 National Champion at 165. And when they look back at this, they will see that in the 2013 finals he beat a two-time national champion in David Taylor, because without Kyle Dake in his way, Taylor is going to blow through college wrestling next year and make all of this seem even more impressive in retrospect.
I am so happy to have gotten to watch him wrestle.
Cornell finishes in 5th place, they AGAIN have four All-Americans and the incoming freshman class looks top-notch. Get on the Cornell Wrestling bandwagon, everyone. It's a fun ride.
Ugarte, as the resident wrestling expert, can you explain the stall warnings to someone who just watched her first wrestling match? Thanks.
Quote from: RitaQuote from: ugarteThat was the best goddamn match I've ever seen. Despite being jobbed by the ref TWICE, Dake dominated Taylor in all aspects of the match. He won 5-4 but it wasn't that close. Dake escaped quickly, he rode hard, he got a takedown when he needed to and he earned that win.
Kyle Dake: first wrestler to win three titles in three years without a redshirt year; first wrestler to win four titles in four different weight classes; undefeated his junior and senior years. 2010 National Champion at 141; 2011 National Champion at 149; 2012 National Champion at 157; 2013 National Champion at 165. And when they look back at this, they will see that in the 2013 finals he beat a two-time national champion in David Taylor, because without Kyle Dake in his way, Taylor is going to blow through college wrestling next year and make all of this seem even more impressive in retrospect.
I am so happy to have gotten to watch him wrestle.
Cornell finishes in 5th place, they AGAIN have four All-Americans and the incoming freshman class looks top-notch. Get on the Cornell Wrestling bandwagon, everyone. It's a fun ride.
Ugarte, as the resident wrestling expert, can you explain the stall warnings to someone who just watched her first wrestling match? Thanks.
It sounds like just what it is: you aren't allowed to just run out the clock, you have to engage and try to score. This is true whether you are on top (you can't just lie on top like a sack of potatoes, you have to try to turn your opponent), at neutral (you can't run away) or on bottom (you can't just flatten out and keep from getting turned, you have to try to get up and out). The first stall warning was given because the ref thought that Dake wasn't trying to score; I thought it was a nonsense call - Taylor kept getting up and Dake would return him to the mat and he even got position to try to turn his back, though he never succeeded. The second stall warning was a little more legit; Taylor had escaped and Dake WAS more or less backing up and counting down the clock. A second stall warning gives the opponent a penalty point. There wasn't enough time left on the clock for Dake to get hit with another stall call, so Taylor knew it was over (the ESPN clock seemed to be consistently behind the official clock by a full second).
Also, I'm hardly an expert. I've watched enough to know the rules.
One other point about Dake's accomplishment that someone on the wrestling forum made:
In 2010, Dake beat Montell Marion in the 141 finals. Marion returned to the 141 final in 2011.
In 2011, Dake beat Frank Molinaro in the 149 final. In 2012, Molinaro won the 149 title.
In 2012, Dake beat Derek St. John in the 157 final. In 2013, St. John won the 157 title.
In 2013, Dake beat David Taylor in the 165 final. David Taylor was the returning 165 champion and 2011 finalist at 157.
He beat no cupcakes. He beat the best. Amazing.
Quote from: ugarteQuote from: RitaQuote from: ugarteThat was the best goddamn match I've ever seen. Despite being jobbed by the ref TWICE, Dake dominated Taylor in all aspects of the match. He won 5-4 but it wasn't that close. Dake escaped quickly, he rode hard, he got a takedown when he needed to and he earned that win.
Kyle Dake: first wrestler to win three titles in three years without a redshirt year; first wrestler to win four titles in four different weight classes; undefeated his junior and senior years. 2010 National Champion at 141; 2011 National Champion at 149; 2012 National Champion at 157; 2013 National Champion at 165. And when they look back at this, they will see that in the 2013 finals he beat a two-time national champion in David Taylor, because without Kyle Dake in his way, Taylor is going to blow through college wrestling next year and make all of this seem even more impressive in retrospect.
I am so happy to have gotten to watch him wrestle.
Cornell finishes in 5th place, they AGAIN have four All-Americans and the incoming freshman class looks top-notch. Get on the Cornell Wrestling bandwagon, everyone. It's a fun ride.
Ugarte, as the resident wrestling expert, can you explain the stall warnings to someone who just watched her first wrestling match? Thanks.
It sounds like just what it is: you aren't allowed to just run out the clock, you have to engage and try to score. This is true whether you are on top (you can't just lie on top like a sack of potatoes, you have to try to turn your opponent), at neutral (you can't run away) or on bottom (you can't just flatten out and keep from getting turned, you have to try to get up and out). The first stall warning was given because the ref thought that Dake wasn't trying to score; I thought it was a nonsense call - Taylor kept getting up and Dake would return him to the mat and he even got position to try to turn his back, though he never succeeded. The second stall warning was a little more legit; Taylor had escaped and Dake WAS more or less backing up and counting down the clock. A second stall warning gives the opponent a penalty point. There wasn't enough time left on the clock for Dake to get hit with another stall call, so Taylor knew it was over (the ESPN clock seemed to be consistently behind the official clock by a full second).
I watched the game with a friend who at one time was a nationally ranked wrestler (i.e., invited to tryout for the Olympics). Before the second stall warning, he said Dake should be willing to give up a second stall point because he had over a minute of riding time, which would add an extra point to Dake's score at the end. So perhaps we should interpret the "stalling" as a strategic decision by a sly, crafty wrestler rather than a move out of exasperation by someone hanging on for dear life.
Overall, today was a pretty good day for Cornell fans. After disappointing football, basketball, and hockey seasons, we needed that! Thanks, Kyle!
Quote from: SwampyI watched the game with a friend who at one time was a nationally ranked wrestler (i.e., invited to tryout for the Olympics). Before the second stall warning, he said Dake should be willing to give up a second stall point because he had over a minute of riding time, which would add an extra point to Dake's score at the end. So perhaps we should interpret the "stalling" as a strategic decision by a sly, crafty wrestler rather than a move out of exasperation by someone hanging on for dear life.
Oh, that's exactly right. I didn't mean to make it sound any other way!
Quote from: ugarteOne other point about Dake's accomplishment that someone on the wrestling forum made:
In 2010, Dake beat Montell Marion in the 141 finals. Marion returned to the 141 final in 2011.
In 2011, Dake beat Frank Molinaro in the 149 final. In 2012, Molinaro won the 149 title.
In 2012, Dake beat Derek St. John in the 157 final. In 2013, St. John won the 157 title.
In 2013, Dake beat David Taylor in the 165 final. David Taylor was the returning 165 champion and 2011 finalist at 157.
He beat no cupcakes. He beat the best. Amazing.
So all of his finals opponents stayed in the same weight class for mltiple years. Why exactly did Dake switch to a different weight class every year when other guys don't? Fothe challenge? (I may be asking you to speculate here vut if so please just label your answer as speculation.)
When asked during an ESPN interview Dake said it was his natural growth progression.
Quote from: KeithKQuote from: ugarteOne other point about Dake's accomplishment that someone on the wrestling forum made:
In 2010, Dake beat Montell Marion in the 141 finals. Marion returned to the 141 final in 2011.
In 2011, Dake beat Frank Molinaro in the 149 final. In 2012, Molinaro won the 149 title.
In 2012, Dake beat Derek St. John in the 157 final. In 2013, St. John won the 157 title.
In 2013, Dake beat David Taylor in the 165 final. David Taylor was the returning 165 champion and 2011 finalist at 157.
He beat no cupcakes. He beat the best. Amazing.
So all of his finals opponents stayed in the same weight class for mltiple years. Why exactly did Dake switch to a different weight class every year when other guys don't? Fothe challenge? (I may be asking you to speculate here vut if so please just label your answer as speculation.)
I speculate that it was all the beer and blow. :)
His Olympic coach or mentor encouraged him to go to 165 to face the challenge of wrestling Taylor who Dake acknowledged would be the best collegiate wrestler this year [other than himself].
Quote from: dag14His Olympic coach or mentor encouraged him to go to 165 to face the challenge of wrestling Taylor who Dake acknowledged would be the best collegiate wrestler this year [other than himself].
Dake wrestles at 163 in international competition, so it is a natural weight for him. As dag said, his mentor encouraged him to rise to the challenge of facing Taylor and making history with four titles in four different weight classes. The earlier weight changes were because he grew out of those weights. For Dake to get down to 141 today would require a shipwreck.
Not sure if this merits its own thread, so putting it here: Pete Mesko arrested, charged with first degree rape. (http://cornellsun.com/section/news/content/2013/04/02/cornell-student-arrested-charge-first-degree-rape)
And, then, after the season, Cornell wrestling gets back in the news in the worst way: Pete Mesko '13, a backup, was arrested for rape (http://cornellbigred.com/roster.aspx?rp_id=33445&path=wrest).
Quote from: kingpin248Not sure if this merits its own thread, so putting it here: Pete Mesko arrested, charged with first degree rape. (http://cornellsun.com/section/news/content/2013/04/02/cornell-student-arrested-charge-first-degree-rape)
Oh and there I went, reading the comments. YES HOW DARE THE SUN ADHERE TO STANDARD JOURNALISM PRACTICE AND NAME THE SUSPECT. I hate people. Really, truly. Except for maybe like four or five of you.
Quote from: JerseygirlQuote from: kingpin248Not sure if this merits its own thread, so putting it here: Pete Mesko arrested, charged with first degree rape. (http://cornellsun.com/section/news/content/2013/04/02/cornell-student-arrested-charge-first-degree-rape)
Oh and there I went, reading the comments. YES HOW DARE THE SUN ADHERE TO STANDARD JOURNALISM PRACTICE AND NAME THE SUSPECT. I hate people. Really, truly. Except for maybe like four or five of you.
I don't want to blame the victim here but you really shouldn't let your eyes wander like that. They're bound to get assaulted.
Quote from: ugarteQuote from: JerseygirlQuote from: kingpin248Not sure if this merits its own thread, so putting it here: Pete Mesko arrested, charged with first degree rape. (http://cornellsun.com/section/news/content/2013/04/02/cornell-student-arrested-charge-first-degree-rape)
Oh and there I went, reading the comments. YES HOW DARE THE SUN ADHERE TO STANDARD JOURNALISM PRACTICE AND NAME THE SUSPECT. I hate people. Really, truly. Except for maybe like four or five of you.
I don't want to blame the victim here but you really shouldn't let your eyes wander like that. They're bound to get assaulted.
I know. I don't know what I was thinking, having the audacity to just read those comments like that. I was totally asking for it. I could have avoided all of this by never venturing onto the internet. Heck, I shouldn't have even learned to read.
Quote from: JerseygirlQuote from: ugarteQuote from: JerseygirlQuote from: kingpin248Not sure if this merits its own thread, so putting it here: Pete Mesko arrested, charged with first degree rape. (http://cornellsun.com/section/news/content/2013/04/02/cornell-student-arrested-charge-first-degree-rape)
Oh and there I went, reading the comments. YES HOW DARE THE SUN ADHERE TO STANDARD JOURNALISM PRACTICE AND NAME THE SUSPECT. I hate people. Really, truly. Except for maybe like four or five of you.
I don't want to blame the victim here but you really shouldn't let your eyes wander like that. They're bound to get assaulted.
I know. I don't know what I was thinking, having the audacity to just read those comments like that. I was totally asking for it. I could have avoided all of this by never venturing onto the internet. Heck, I shouldn't have even learned to read.
The situation does suggest that one should avoid reading internet comment threads on anything even remotely controversial. I mean, look how contentious arguments about much less important things get on this site when we all share a common allegiance and half of us know ach other personally. A situation like this one pops up and folks who ve no actual connection or knowledge of the case use it as an opportunity to get on the soap box and push their own abstract ideas.
Quote from: KeithKThe situation does suggest that one should avoid reading internet comment threads on anything even remotely controversial. I mean, look how contentious arguments about much less important things get on this site when we all share a common allegiance and half of us know ach other personally. A situation like this one pops up and folks who ve no actual connection or knowledge of the case use it as an opportunity to get on the soap box and push their own abstract ideas.
...a pasttime which I have been known to indulge in from time to time. So save yourself the time and aggravation and choose not to read anything I write. :-D
Quote from: KeithKQuote from: JerseygirlQuote from: ugarteQuote from: JerseygirlQuote from: kingpin248Not sure if this merits its own thread, so putting it here: Pete Mesko arrested, charged with first degree rape. (http://cornellsun.com/section/news/content/2013/04/02/cornell-student-arrested-charge-first-degree-rape)
Oh and there I went, reading the comments. YES HOW DARE THE SUN ADHERE TO STANDARD JOURNALISM PRACTICE AND NAME THE SUSPECT. I hate people. Really, truly. Except for maybe like four or five of you.
I don't want to blame the victim here but you really shouldn't let your eyes wander like that. They're bound to get assaulted.
I know. I don't know what I was thinking, having the audacity to just read those comments like that. I was totally asking for it. I could have avoided all of this by never venturing onto the internet. Heck, I shouldn't have even learned to read.
The situation does suggest that one should avoid reading internet comment threads on anything even remotely controversial. I mean, look how contentious arguments about much less important things get on this site when we all share a common allegiance and half of us know ach other personally. A situation like this one pops up and folks who ve no actual connection or knowledge of the case use it as an opportunity to get on the soap box and push their own abstract ideas.
To be honest (and sincere), my outrage and exasperation at the tone of the comments on the article extend to the way society views sexual assault in general. What makes me hate people in this case is that most of the commenters have a presumed affiliation with Cornell, which should, SHOULD, indicate that they would have a basic fucking clue that the Sun in no way acted controversially by printing the suspect's name. They're reading a newspaper. When writing about crime, newspapers name suspects. I guess in this case, subbing in a fresh-faced, corn-fed athlete from their alma mater for your usual common criminal was too much to comprehend, so it couldn't have been straight reporting, it must have been sullying this young man's reputation before all the facts came in.
Quote from: JerseygirlQuote from: KeithKQuote from: JerseygirlQuote from: ugarteQuote from: JerseygirlQuote from: kingpin248Not sure if this merits its own thread, so putting it here: Pete Mesko arrested, charged with first degree rape. (http://cornellsun.com/section/news/content/2013/04/02/cornell-student-arrested-charge-first-degree-rape)
Oh and there I went, reading the comments. YES HOW DARE THE SUN ADHERE TO STANDARD JOURNALISM PRACTICE AND NAME THE SUSPECT. I hate people. Really, truly. Except for maybe like four or five of you.
I don't want to blame the victim here but you really shouldn't let your eyes wander like that. They're bound to get assaulted.
I know. I don't know what I was thinking, having the audacity to just read those comments like that. I was totally asking for it. I could have avoided all of this by never venturing onto the internet. Heck, I shouldn't have even learned to read.
The situation does suggest that one should avoid reading internet comment threads on anything even remotely controversial. I mean, look how contentious arguments about much less important things get on this site when we all share a common allegiance and half of us know ach other personally. A situation like this one pops up and folks who ve no actual connection or knowledge of the case use it as an opportunity to get on the soap box and push their own abstract ideas.
To be honest (and sincere), my outrage and exasperation at the tone of the comments on the article extend to the way society views sexual assault in general. What makes me hate people in this case is that most of the commenters have a presumed affiliation with Cornell, which should, SHOULD, indicate that they would have a basic fucking clue that the Sun in no way acted controversially by printing the suspect's name. They're reading a newspaper. When writing about crime, newspapers name suspects. I guess in this case, subbing in a fresh-faced, corn-fed athlete from their alma mater for your usual common criminal was too much to comprehend, so it couldn't have been straight reporting, it must have been sullying this young man's reputation before all the facts came in.
My impression is that suspects are not named, but that once someone has been charged they are identified. The Ithaca Journal (http://www.theithacajournal.com/article/20130404/NEWS01/304030144/Victim-friend-identified-Cornell-wrestler-as-rape-suspect) identifies the accused.
Quote from: JerseygirlQuote from: KeithKQuote from: JerseygirlQuote from: ugarteQuote from: JerseygirlQuote from: kingpin248Not sure if this merits its own thread, so putting it here: Pete Mesko arrested, charged with first degree rape. (http://cornellsun.com/section/news/content/2013/04/02/cornell-student-arrested-charge-first-degree-rape)
Oh and there I went, reading the comments. YES HOW DARE THE SUN ADHERE TO STANDARD JOURNALISM PRACTICE AND NAME THE SUSPECT. I hate people. Really, truly. Except for maybe like four or five of you.
I don't want to blame the victim here but you really shouldn't let your eyes wander like that. They're bound to get assaulted.
I know. I don't know what I was thinking, having the audacity to just read those comments like that. I was totally asking for it. I could have avoided all of this by never venturing onto the internet. Heck, I shouldn't have even learned to read.
The situation does suggest that one should avoid reading internet comment threads on anything even remotely controversial. I mean, look how contentious arguments about much less important things get on this site when we all share a common allegiance and half of us know ach other personally. A situation like this one pops up and folks who ve no actual connection or knowledge of the case use it as an opportunity to get on the soap box and push their own abstract ideas.
To be honest (and sincere), my outrage and exasperation at the tone of the comments on the article extend to the way society views sexual assault in general. What makes me hate people in this case is that most of the commenters have a presumed affiliation with Cornell, which should, SHOULD, indicate that they would have a basic fucking clue that the Sun in no way acted controversially by printing the suspect's name. They're reading a newspaper. When writing about crime, newspapers name suspects. I guess in this case, subbing in a fresh-faced, corn-fed athlete from their alma mater for your usual common criminal was too much to comprehend, so it couldn't have been straight reporting, it must have been sullying this young man's reputation before all the facts came in.
The misguided outrage stems from the journalistic practice of not naming rape
victims (out of concern for stigmatizing/traumatizing a person NOT suspected of wrongdoing) and the lunkheaded creation of a false equivalency that wants to extend that courtesy to the accused. I'm sure you could find out more about this by googling "misandry" but I'd recommend eating shards of glass before you dive down that self-pitying rabbit hole.
Quote from: ugarteQuote from: JerseygirlQuote from: KeithKQuote from: JerseygirlQuote from: ugarteQuote from: JerseygirlQuote from: kingpin248Not sure if this merits its own thread, so putting it here: Pete Mesko arrested, charged with first degree rape. (http://cornellsun.com/section/news/content/2013/04/02/cornell-student-arrested-charge-first-degree-rape)
Oh and there I went, reading the comments. YES HOW DARE THE SUN ADHERE TO STANDARD JOURNALISM PRACTICE AND NAME THE SUSPECT. I hate people. Really, truly. Except for maybe like four or five of you.
I don't want to blame the victim here but you really shouldn't let your eyes wander like that. They're bound to get assaulted.
I know. I don't know what I was thinking, having the audacity to just read those comments like that. I was totally asking for it. I could have avoided all of this by never venturing onto the internet. Heck, I shouldn't have even learned to read.
The situation does suggest that one should avoid reading internet comment threads on anything even remotely controversial. I mean, look how contentious arguments about much less important things get on this site when we all share a common allegiance and half of us know ach other personally. A situation like this one pops up and folks who ve no actual connection or knowledge of the case use it as an opportunity to get on the soap box and push their own abstract ideas.
To be honest (and sincere), my outrage and exasperation at the tone of the comments on the article extend to the way society views sexual assault in general. What makes me hate people in this case is that most of the commenters have a presumed affiliation with Cornell, which should, SHOULD, indicate that they would have a basic fucking clue that the Sun in no way acted controversially by printing the suspect's name. They're reading a newspaper. When writing about crime, newspapers name suspects. I guess in this case, subbing in a fresh-faced, corn-fed athlete from their alma mater for your usual common criminal was too much to comprehend, so it couldn't have been straight reporting, it must have been sullying this young man's reputation before all the facts came in.
The misguided outrage stems from the journalistic practice of not naming rape victims (out of concern for stigmatizing/traumatizing a person NOT suspected of wrongdoing) and the lunkheaded creation of a false equivalency that wants to extend that courtesy to the accused. I'm sure you could find out more about this by googling "misandry" but I'd recommend eating shards of glass before you dive down that self-pitying rabbit hole.
I like you ugarte, but presumption of innocence is self-pitying? Get a grip. I would expect this from some tub-thumping demagogue lapping up easy applause on the campaign trail.
Accusations of rape, like accusations of child molestation, can destroy the accused's life
regardless of the eventual verdict. That makes plastering EITHER PARTY'S NAME all over the place ethically suspect. It's wonderful for circulation, but it's not knuckle-dragging atavism to suggest extra care be used.
The idiocy here is dragging cultural baggage into the discussion, on
either side. Blaming the victim through horrendous sexist narratives is one type of idiocy. Your post is pretty nearly as bad on the other side.
Quote from: ugarteQuote from: JerseygirlQuote from: KeithKQuote from: JerseygirlQuote from: ugarteQuote from: JerseygirlQuote from: kingpin248Not sure if this merits its own thread, so putting it here: Pete Mesko arrested, charged with first degree rape. (http://cornellsun.com/section/news/content/2013/04/02/cornell-student-arrested-charge-first-degree-rape)
Oh and there I went, reading the comments. YES HOW DARE THE SUN ADHERE TO STANDARD JOURNALISM PRACTICE AND NAME THE SUSPECT. I hate people. Really, truly. Except for maybe like four or five of you.
I don't want to blame the victim here but you really shouldn't let your eyes wander like that. They're bound to get assaulted.
I know. I don't know what I was thinking, having the audacity to just read those comments like that. I was totally asking for it. I could have avoided all of this by never venturing onto the internet. Heck, I shouldn't have even learned to read.
The situation does suggest that one should avoid reading internet comment threads on anything even remotely controversial. I mean, look how contentious arguments about much less important things get on this site when we all share a common allegiance and half of us know ach other personally. A situation like this one pops up and folks who ve no actual connection or knowledge of the case use it as an opportunity to get on the soap box and push their own abstract ideas.
To be honest (and sincere), my outrage and exasperation at the tone of the comments on the article extend to the way society views sexual assault in general. What makes me hate people in this case is that most of the commenters have a presumed affiliation with Cornell, which should, SHOULD, indicate that they would have a basic fucking clue that the Sun in no way acted controversially by printing the suspect's name. They're reading a newspaper. When writing about crime, newspapers name suspects. I guess in this case, subbing in a fresh-faced, corn-fed athlete from their alma mater for your usual common criminal was too much to comprehend, so it couldn't have been straight reporting, it must have been sullying this young man's reputation before all the facts came in.
The misguided outrage stems from the journalistic practice of not naming rape victims (out of concern for stigmatizing/traumatizing a person NOT suspected of wrongdoing) and the lunkheaded creation of a false equivalency that wants to extend that courtesy to the accused. I'm sure you could find out more about this by googling "misandry" but I'd recommend eating shards of glass before you dive down that self-pitying rabbit hole.
I know where the misguided outrage comes from; my current job has me face to face with that and "misandry" pretty much all the time. I assume you're spelling this out for readers of this thread who are not me.
I also maintain to the general eLynah readership that the internet commentariat (well, and society at large) falls well on the side of "buuuuuuuuuurn the motherfucker" for all charges except those of sexual assault. Really, what percentage of comments on a story about an alleged child molester's arrest call for us to "reserve judgment" and "let the courts decide"? How many bring up that children are notoriously unreliable witnesses and are easily led during questioning?
Quote from: TrotskyAccusations of rape, like accusations of child molestation, can destroy the accused's life regardless of the eventual verdict. That makes plastering EITHER PARTY'S NAME all over the place ethically suspect. It's wonderful for circulation, but it's not knuckle-dragging atavism to suggest extra care be used.
Police name the person charged with a crime as part of the public trial process. The alternative would allow the government to arrest, charge, and try people essentially in secret.
Quote from: JerseygirlI also maintain to the general eLynah readership that the internet commentariat (well, and society at large) falls well on the side of "buuuuuuuuuurn the motherfucker" for all charges except those of sexual assault. Really, what percentage of comments on a story about an alleged child molester's arrest call for us to "reserve judgment" and "let the courts decide"? How many bring up that children are notoriously unreliable witnesses and are easily led during questioning?
Wait, though. Let's say pedophilia
is the current brainfreeze crime. Like witch or communist once were, in the public mind accusation equals proof ("where there's smoke there's fire, a-herp") and everybody merrily rushes to light the auto da fe.
Shouldn't sane minds guard against that behavior, rather than attempt to replicate it with yet another accusation? "We don't mindlessly stone people to death when their accusers are women" is not a valid demonstration of sexism.
Quote from: BenQuote from: TrotskyAccusations of rape, like accusations of child molestation, can destroy the accused's life regardless of the eventual verdict. That makes plastering EITHER PARTY'S NAME all over the place ethically suspect. It's wonderful for circulation, but it's not knuckle-dragging atavism to suggest extra care be used.
Police name the person charged with a crime as part of the public trial process. The alternative would allow the government to arrest, charge, and try people essentially in secret.
You are conflating two issues. This is why the media aren't doing anything
illegal when they name the accused. Whether they're doing something unethical is entirely different.
The former is a political right. The latter is a commercial strategy.
[deleted]
Quote from: TrotskyQuote from: JerseygirlI also maintain to the general eLynah readership that the internet commentariat (well, and society at large) falls well on the side of "buuuuuuuuuurn the motherfucker" for all charges except those of sexual assault. Really, what percentage of comments on a story about an alleged child molester's arrest call for us to "reserve judgment" and "let the courts decide"? How many bring up that children are notoriously unreliable witnesses and are easily led during questioning?
Wait, though. Let's say pedophilia is the current brainfreeze crime. Like witch or communist once were, in the public mind accusation equals proof ("where there's smoke there's fire, a-herp") and everybody merrily rushes to light the auto da fe.
Shouldn't sane minds guard against that behavior, rather than attempt to replicate it with yet another accusation? "We don't mindlessly stone people to death when their accusers are women" is not a valid demonstration of sexism.
Except that in the current public mind, accusation of sexual assault *does not* equal proof -- its truth is immediately called into question by the public. That's the dominant reaction. The backlash against that reaction comes after.
Let's also be clear: just because you apparently disagree with my position doesn't mean I'm saying what you think I am. I'm not saying, "Hurrrrrr! Every accusation of sexual assault is 100% true!" A review of publications put forth by the National District Attorneys Association (NDAA.org) reveals that false reports of rape occur at about the same rate as false reports of other crimes -- and there remain serious reliability issues about the validity of the data at the higher end of the spectrum. Plus, there's a big difference between your "mindlessly stoning people to death when their accusers are women" (please note that nowhere in the response you quoted did I specify I was only talking about cases in which women are the accusers/victims -- men can be and are sexual assault victims as well) and asking people to realize that articles that name those accused of sexual assault are no different in agenda than those that name those accused of other crimes.
Also, you realize that unlike witches and McCarthy-era communists, there are real, actual perpetrators and victims of sexual assault in this country, right? And you realize that *being* sexually assaulted (and then, in most cases, facing at least *some* amount of disbelief that the assault actually happened, or that you didn't do anything to encourage it) can ruin lives forever as well, right? In many cases, just as much, if not more, than being accused of a crime.
Quote from: TrotskyI like you ugarte, but presumption of innocence is self-pitying? Get a grip. I would expect this from some tub-thumping demagogue lapping up easy applause on the campaign trail.
Accusations of rape, like accusations of child molestation, can destroy the accused's life regardless of the eventual verdict. That makes plastering EITHER PARTY'S NAME all over the place ethically suspect. It's wonderful for circulation, but it's not knuckle-dragging atavism to suggest extra care be used.
The idiocy here is dragging cultural baggage into the discussion, on either side. Blaming the victim through horrendous sexist narratives is one type of idiocy. Your post is pretty nearly as bad on the other side.
I didn't say "presumption of innocence" is self-pitying. I said caterwauling about misandry is self-pitying.
As for whether newspapers should report a person's name pretrial? The fact of the arrest is a public announcement by the Ithaca PD that they believe they have sufficient information to convict a person of a crime. That is a newsworthy event worth reporting in full. The name of the VICTIM is not newsworthy in the same way and drawing a parallel between the two is insane. Should the newspapers have redacted the name of Jerry Sandusky until the trial? Of Raj Rajaratnam? The arrest is news. The fallout for the wrongly accused is AN OBJECTIVELY BAD THING but there is a reason to report arrests generally. There is no reason to report the name of a crime victim where, as here, there is a weird inexplicable cultural stigma that attaches to
getting raped.
If you don't see the difference I'm not sure what to tell you.
Quote from: Scersk '97We should all fall on the side of reserving judgment, in my opinion, for ALL crimes, regardless of type or severity. "There but for the grace of God..." some people say...
Except it's not "There but for the grace of God..." when it comes to sexual assault. It's actually really easy not to sexually assault someone. Understand what (enthusiastic) consent is, and seek it each and every time you desire to fool around/have sex. And if "yes" turns to "no," or "I'm not sure" stop. And if that's too difficult for people to understand, there are plenty of resources out there to help explain the concept.
Quote from: JerseygirlQuote from: Scersk '97We should all fall on the side of reserving judgment, in my opinion, for ALL crimes, regardless of type or severity. "There but for the grace of God..." some people say...
Except it's not "There but for the grace of God..." when it comes to sexual assault. It's actually really easy not to sexually assault someone. Understand what (enthusiastic) consent is, and seek it each and every time you desire to fool around/have sex. And if "yes" turns to "no," or "I'm not sure" stop. And if that's too difficult for people to understand, there are plenty of resources out there to help explain the concept.
Yeah, that's all well and good, but you know it's not that simple. All you've got to do is mix alcohol or some other mind-altering drug into the equation and
everything becomes difficult to understand. Indeed, no matter how much you and I might prefer there not to be, there is a grey area here; that is, unless we're all going to abstain from alcohol when sex is in the offing, "disagreements"—scare quotes because it's a bad word for a touchy concept—might occur.
To my mind, it's shaky enough ground that I require, as you say, "enthusiastic consent" before proceeding further; indeed, I prefer the company of women who are, shall we say,
very clear in their general modes of communication for this and many, many other reasons. But not all women are that way, and one does not always know who one is dealing with. (Of course, one of the ways to figure that out quickly is to strive for clarity on one's own part. In my experience, people who are wishy-washy about things don't mesh well with people who are direct.)
To stop rambling, I'll state that any crime, even sexual assault, can involve differing perspectives on a particular event, sometimes leading to different ethical or legal interpretations. Don't read this as "one person's rape is another's rough sex"—not what I meant. Rather, what we perceive always differs from what other humans perceive; thus, we each, after all, only experience the world via our own senses and filtered through our own minds. We are truly known only to ourselves. So, "but for the grace of God" have my interpretations of various activities generally lined up with those of my partners. Of course, I had a strong role in making sure of this, but one can never be sure when dealing with another human being.
(Indeed, scary thought: are we ever sure even with ourselves? Are our perceptions always clear? I think not.)
That's why, sadly, we have courts to decide if someone has committed a crime. And it's why I prefer
always to reserve judgment, whatever the crime. Because I don't have the hubris to think that I
ever know the truth of anything.
Quote from: Scersk '97Quote from: JerseygirlQuote from: Scersk '97We should all fall on the side of reserving judgment, in my opinion, for ALL crimes, regardless of type or severity. "There but for the grace of God..." some people say...
Except it's not "There but for the grace of God..." when it comes to sexual assault. It's actually really easy not to sexually assault someone. Understand what (enthusiastic) consent is, and seek it each and every time you desire to fool around/have sex. And if "yes" turns to "no," or "I'm not sure" stop. And if that's too difficult for people to understand, there are plenty of resources out there to help explain the concept.
Yeah, that's all well and good, but you know it's not that simple. All you've got to do is mix alcohol or some other mind-altering drug into the equation and everything becomes difficult to understand. Indeed, no matter how much you and I might prefer there not to be, there is a grey area here; that is, unless we're all going to abstain from alcohol when sex is in the offing, "disagreements"—scare quotes because it's a bad word for a touchy concept—might occur.
To my mind, it's shaky enough ground that I require, as you say, "enthusiastic consent" before proceeding further; indeed, I prefer the company of women who are, shall we say, very clear in their general modes of communication for this and many, many other reasons. But not all women are that way, and one does not always know who one is dealing with. (Of course, one of the ways to figure that out quickly is to strive for clarity on one's own part. In my experience, people who are wishy-washy about things don't mesh well with people who are direct.)
To stop rambling, I'll state that any crime, even sexual assault, can involve differing perspectives on a particular event, sometimes leading to different ethical or legal interpretations. Don't read this as "one person's rape is another's rough sex"—not what I meant. Rather, what we perceive always differs from what other humans perceive; thus, we each, after all, only experience the world via our own senses and filtered through our own minds. We are truly known only to ourselves. So, "but for the grace of God" have my interpretations of various activities generally lined up with those of my partners. Of course, I had a strong role in making sure of this, but one can never be sure when dealing with another human being.
(Indeed, scary thought: are we ever sure even with ourselves? Are our perceptions always clear? I think not.)
That's why, sadly, we have courts to decide if someone has committed a crime. And it's why I prefer always to reserve judgment, whatever the crime. Because I don't have the hubris to think that I ever know the truth of anything.
And everyone else should require enthusiastic consent as well. That's what I'm getting at. The concept of enthusiastic consent should be a well-known, well understood concept that we teach each other. "Well, I guess..." etc. is not enthusiastic consent. Convincing, winning someone over, etc. is not enthusiastic consent. "Yes" is enthusiastic consent.
If we stopped stigmatizing women's sexuality, a lot of this gray area of which you speak would be eliminated, because women wouldn't need to worry about our reputations if we happily agreed to each sexual encounter in which we wanted to partake, instead of feeling like we had to go through the motions of being convinced to have sex in order to remain ladylike in disposition. Conversations around sex would become more honest and true consent would be easier to identify. But if we stopped stigmatizing women's sexuality, misogynists would lose a very important tool to keep us in our place.
ESPECIALLY sexual assault involves differing perspectives on a particular event (not that each perspective has equal validity). For example, there are plenty of people who think that if a woman is married, she can't be raped by her husband, because marriage is implicit consent (it's not where I live!).
Finally, it's not sad that we have courts to decide if someone has committed a crime, it's awesome. I don't want to leave justice up to an unregulated mob. That's not to say there are no systemic issues that need to be addressed.
Quote from: JerseygirlIf we stopped stigmatizing women's sexuality, a lot of this gray area of which you speak would be eliminated, because women wouldn't need to worry about our reputations if we happily agreed to each sexual encounter in which we wanted to partake, instead of feeling like we had to go through the motions of being convinced to have sex in order to remain ladylike in disposition. Conversations around sex would become more honest and true consent would be easier to identify. But if we stopped stigmatizing women's sexuality, misogynists would lose a very important tool to keep us in our place.
Don't normally say it sincerely, but "right on!"
Quote from: JerseygirlESPECIALLY sexual assault involves differing perspectives on a particular event (not that each perspective has equal validity). For example, there are plenty of people who think that if a woman is married, she can't be raped by her husband, because marriage is implicit consent (it's not where I live!).
Well, every perspective has equal validity, i.e., I can't see through another person's eyes and experience his or her brain filter, so his or her perceptions are true and valid
prima facie. But not every interpretation, based as interpretations should be on drawing together explanations for events that fit all the data involved, of those events has equal validity. Indeed, only after
much work can we determine if a particular person's account of events is not presented truthfully. I mean, that's what courts are for, and it's hard work.
Quote from: JerseygirlFinally, it's not sad that we have courts to decide if someone has committed a crime, it's awesome. I don't want to leave justice up to an unregulated mob. That's not to say there are no systemic issues that need to be addressed.
Well, it's sad in the sense that we have to have them at all, that we don't live in a fantasy-unicorn land of truth, safety, and happiness. Sure, I'm very glad we have courts, just as I'm glad that there are hospitals and people who want to be doctors (surgery, ick!), but I find criminal law to be so depressing. Either way it turns out, lives are going to change, and often not for the better.
Quote from: JerseygirlQuote from: Scersk '97Quote from: JerseygirlQuote from: Scersk '97We should all fall on the side of reserving judgment, in my opinion, for ALL crimes, regardless of type or severity. "There but for the grace of God..." some people say...
Except it's not "There but for the grace of God..." when it comes to sexual assault. It's actually really easy not to sexually assault someone. Understand what (enthusiastic) consent is, and seek it each and every time you desire to fool around/have sex. And if "yes" turns to "no," or "I'm not sure" stop. And if that's too difficult for people to understand, there are plenty of resources out there to help explain the concept.
Yeah, that's all well and good, but you know it's not that simple. All you've got to do is mix alcohol or some other mind-altering drug into the equation and everything becomes difficult to understand. Indeed, no matter how much you and I might prefer there not to be, there is a grey area here; that is, unless we're all going to abstain from alcohol when sex is in the offing, "disagreements"—scare quotes because it's a bad word for a touchy concept—might occur.
To my mind, it's shaky enough ground that I require, as you say, "enthusiastic consent" before proceeding further; indeed, I prefer the company of women who are, shall we say, very clear in their general modes of communication for this and many, many other reasons. But not all women are that way, and one does not always know who one is dealing with. (Of course, one of the ways to figure that out quickly is to strive for clarity on one's own part. In my experience, people who are wishy-washy about things don't mesh well with people who are direct.)
To stop rambling, I'll state that any crime, even sexual assault, can involve differing perspectives on a particular event, sometimes leading to different ethical or legal interpretations. Don't read this as "one person's rape is another's rough sex"—not what I meant. Rather, what we perceive always differs from what other humans perceive; thus, we each, after all, only experience the world via our own senses and filtered through our own minds. We are truly known only to ourselves. So, "but for the grace of God" have my interpretations of various activities generally lined up with those of my partners. Of course, I had a strong role in making sure of this, but one can never be sure when dealing with another human being.
(Indeed, scary thought: are we ever sure even with ourselves? Are our perceptions always clear? I think not.)
That's why, sadly, we have courts to decide if someone has committed a crime. And it's why I prefer always to reserve judgment, whatever the crime. Because I don't have the hubris to think that I ever know the truth of anything.
And everyone else should require enthusiastic consent as well. That's what I'm getting at. The concept of enthusiastic consent should be a well-known, well understood concept that we teach each other. "Well, I guess..." etc. is not enthusiastic consent. Convincing, winning someone over, etc. is not enthusiastic consent. "Yes" is enthusiastic consent.
If we stopped stigmatizing women's sexuality, a lot of this gray area of which you speak would be eliminated, because women wouldn't need to worry about our reputations if we happily agreed to each sexual encounter in which we wanted to partake, instead of feeling like we had to go through the motions of being convinced to have sex in order to remain ladylike in disposition. Conversations around sex would become more honest and true consent would be easier to identify. But if we stopped stigmatizing women's sexuality, misogynists would lose a very important tool to keep us in our place.
ESPECIALLY sexual assault involves differing perspectives on a particular event (not that each perspective has equal validity). For example, there are plenty of people who think that if a woman is married, she can't be raped by her husband, because marriage is implicit consent (it's not where I live!).
Finally, it's not sad that we have courts to decide if someone has committed a crime, it's awesome. I don't want to leave justice up to an unregulated mob. That's not to say there are no systemic issues that need to be addressed.
I can't see how this concept is so hard to understand. Anything but yes, let's go, is a no. Why any parent would want to instill anything other than that idea is hard for me to understand. Seeing what has happened with my daughter's generation, gives me some hope that it is changing, at least a little to the better.
Replace or extend the Cornell swim test to include a 100-question test, "Am I savvy enough to be allowed to graduate and vote?" Cornellians ought to be smart enough to figure out if arrest / traffic accident / parking ticket etcetera information is public especially if you invert the situation and think about what society would be like if police never had to release arrest information or maybe not even releasse the defendants. We'd be playing under Guantanamo rules.
Kyle Dake was the only USA winner vs Iran at the Rumble on the Rails (http://www.grantland.com/blog/the-triangle/post/_/id/62321/we-went-there-grand-central-stations-rumble-on-the-rails)
Quote from: gonyrKyle Dake was the only USA winner vs Iran at the Rumble on the Rails (http://www.grantland.com/blog/the-triangle/post/_/id/62321/we-went-there-grand-central-stations-rumble-on-the-rails)
Highlights of Dake's match: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D6sAHJ09b5M