The Chrnoicle of Higher Education reports on the tactics used to get graduating seniors to donate to class gifts. I find this to be really distasteful behavior at Cornell and Dartmouth. The odss of making making any donations in the near future just dropped a bit.
http://chronicle.com/article/Students-at-2-Ivy-League/125056/?key=QGx0cF8%2FNCIRbHA0YzoQbT8EYCFsOR13YCFEbiwrblxTGA%3D%3D
QuoteMs. Broadus knew that most alumni who became big donors later in life had made gifts within a decade of graduating, and realized that if giving by young alumni stayed at the level it was at , Dartmouth would become a college with far fewer resources.
That's pretty messed-up conflation of cause and effect, if you ask me.
People who make large gifts later in life are people who have always been generous? Wow. Who knew?
My law school had a similar program years ago. I got several emails from a very apologetic friend of mine who indicated she was coerced into participating in this. When I explained to her my reasons for refusing to donate to the law school, she finally stopped and apologized for bothering me. I think it shamed her more than me, but the school really pushed people to contribute and to harass their friends into contributing. I believe it may have had soemthing to do with rankings more than finances.
For the record, I've given to Cornell every year since graduation, but will probably never donate to my law school alma mater.
A lot of it has to do with rankings in terms of numbers of alums participating. They key thing to recognize is that it doesn't matter how much you give. Even if you only give a single dollar or five dollars or the now common class year amount (ie $19.53 is what my grandma would give) it shows up for percentage of living alums donating. As much as I find phone calls like that annoying, having gone to Cornell with LOTS of financial aid, getting a phone call to remind me to give $25 which I would have anyway isn't so bad.
I read about this secondhand on Slate (http://www.slate.com/blogs/blogs/scocca/archive/2010/10/27/cornell-and-dartmouth-shame-students-for-not-adding-their-real-money-to-the-ongoing-bonfire-of-imaginary-money.aspx). It pretty much sums up why I don't give money to Cornell (other than occasionally to Pep Band to pay for travel) or Columbia but do give to my high school.
Quote from: munchkinAs much as I find phone calls like that annoying, having gone to Cornell with LOTS of financial aid, getting a phone call to remind me to give $25 which I would have anyway isn't so bad.
I don't have a problem with the usual fund raising calls that I get from the University. That's part of the current business model of higher education and, while I wish it were not so, I accept it. But if I say "Sorry, no thanks" then we/I hang up and that's the end of it. Having your friends specifically call to harass/shame you into giving is a totally different story and crosses the line in my book.
On a related note, who the hell decided that the percentage of alums donating is a good metric to rate the school on anyway? Seems pretty asinine. Makes me think that maybe next time I get a begging letter from Cornell I should write them a $0.01 check. That'll show up in the rankings while being completely useless. Even better, can I make a $0.01 donation via credit card so it doesn't cost me a stamp (and actually costs the school money to process)?
(No, I'm not really that spiteful. But stories like this make me want to indulge my spiteful side.)
Just because it's our Alma Mater and we have a lot of positive personal feelings about it doesn't mean it isn't also a malignant corporate machine that will use every trick of emotional manipulation to meet expenses. It isn't as if reading this story has suddenly made me realize Cornell might actually not be an unsullied garden of learning. It does, after all, have a Business School. ;-)
Quote from: TrotskyJust because it's our Alma Mater and we have a lot of positive personal feelings about it doesn't mean it isn't also a malignant corporate machine that will use every trick of emotional manipulation to meet expenses. It isn't as if reading this story has suddenly made me realize Cornell might actually not be an unsullied garden of learning. It does, after all, have a Business School. ;-)
Indeed. Cornell may be tax-exempt, but it isn't a charity.
FWIW, anyone feeling grateful about receiving financial aid should do some more research on price discrimination, market segmentation, and yield management. The financial aid system is designed specifically to maximize revenue within the constraints of maintaining academic reputation, one element of which is being perceived as egalitarian (e.g., through need-blind policies: just recall the shit Brown¹ went through when 10% of their student body was not admitted need-blind). It's a very clever scam because it makes parents and students thankful about being fleeced.
¹Is this phrase redundant?
Quote from: Kyle RoseFWIW, anyone feeling grateful about receiving financial aid should do some more research on price discrimination, market segmentation, and yield management. The financial aid system is designed specifically to maximize revenue within the constraints of maintaining academic reputation, one element of which is being perceived as egalitarian (e.g., through need-blind policies: just recall the shit Brown¹ went through when 10% of their student body was not admitted need-blind). It's a very clever scam because it makes parents and students thankful about being fleeced.
¹Is this phrase redundant?
I don't see why this would make those who have been helped by this goal less appreciative of the fact that it worked out well for them.
Quote from: Josh '99Quote from: Kyle RoseFWIW, anyone feeling grateful about receiving financial aid should do some more research on price discrimination, market segmentation, and yield management. The financial aid system is designed specifically to maximize revenue within the constraints of maintaining academic reputation, one element of which is being perceived as egalitarian (e.g., through need-blind policies: just recall the shit Brown¹ went through when 10% of their student body was not admitted need-blind). It's a very clever scam because it makes parents and students thankful about being fleeced.
¹Is this phrase redundant?
I don't see why this would make those who have been helped by this goal less appreciative of the fact that it worked out well for them.
While technically schools that are need blind don't look at the individual student's needs, they do assess whether the zip code the student comes from typically has a higher or lower number of students requiring aid. It worked out well for me since I live in a zip code where most students do not need aid, or if they do it's minimal, while I am the child of a single parent who had another child in college at the same time, thus reducing the amount allocated to Cornell via the FAFSA. I'm not complaining at the system since it worked in my favor.
I did get the annoying calls senior year from my friends to donate and in person since I seemed to be friends with everyone on class council. Did I find it annoying? Kind of, but as I said, Cornell gave me a lot more than I'll be able to give it. A side note separate from academics: can you measure the financial benefit of meeting your best friends?
Quote from: munchkinI did get the annoying calls senior year from my friends to donate and in person since I seemed to be friends with everyone on class council. Did I find it annoying? Kind of, but as I said, Cornell gave me a lot more than I'll be able to give it.
If you feel that way (and it's nice that you do) then you're likely to give anyway out of a sense of attachment or obligation to Cornell. Harassing someone to make a charitable donation is still wrong or at least distasteful. Also, keep in mind that there are plenty of Cornellians who unfortunately leave Ithaca not feeling so rosy about the school. The administrators in charge may think that this practices may establish a pattern of giving but it could also turn some folks off from giving.
Quote from: munchkinA side note separate from academics: can you measure the financial benefit of meeting your best friends?
No, you can't measure that. However, it's a false choice. while most of us may have met some of our best friends at Cornell, we would almost certainly have done the same attending another school. Different people, of course, but how do you measure that difference?
Quote from: Kyle RoseIndeed. Cornell may be tax-exempt, but it isn't a charity.
Even charities don't last long if they spend more money than they take in.
Quote from: munchkinA side note separate from academics: can you measure the financial benefit of meeting your best friends?
Judging by the cost of attending a few weddings a year for most of one's 20s and early 30s, I'm not sure "benefit" is the word I would use. ::bang::
Quote from: Josh '99Quote from: munchkinA side note separate from academics: can you measure the financial benefit of meeting your best friends?
Judging by the cost of attending a few weddings a year for most of one's 20s and early 30s, I'm not sure "benefit" is the word I would use. ::bang::
Once you get married all those couples get to give you presents, it balances out (kind of..?, maybe..?, no not really). I'm going to my second Cornell wedding in December, thankfully I can stay at mommy's house since the wedding is in DC.
Quote from: munchkinQuote from: Josh '99Quote from: munchkinA side note separate from academics: can you measure the financial benefit of meeting your best friends?
Judging by the cost of attending a few weddings a year for most of one's 20s and early 30s, I'm not sure "benefit" is the word I would use. ::bang::
Once you get married all those couples get to give you presents, it balances out (kind of..?, maybe..?, no not really). I'm going to my second Cornell wedding in December, thankfully I can stay at mommy's house since the wedding is in DC.
But if you don't get married, you have to buy your own kitchen toys rather than having one of your friends spend $150 for the fancy food processor that you covet. My Cornell grad school friends and I joked about shelling out for other people's wedding gifts while we were slaving away in the lab, but we should have done it.. set up a "PhD Registry".
Hey, you just spent the last 6 or so years scraping by; your furnishings consists of beds and couches left behind by other grad students. If you make it through and graduate, you are likely moving to a new place, but hey, guess what, they don't pay moving expenses for post-docs (or non-tenured track positions) :-O. Imagine the registry: 1 week UHaul rental, UHaul Trailer hitch, a set of 4 matching dishes, wine glasses without a Finger Lakes winery logo (they don't ship well cross country :-/), gas cards. However, given how I love to cook and bake, my list would have been filled with kitchen toys **].
Quote from: munchkinOnce you get married all those couples get to give you presents, it balances out (kind of..?, maybe..?, no not really). I'm going to my second Cornell wedding in December, thankfully I can stay at mommy's house since the wedding is in DC.
You know precisely the flaw in this. Once I figured out it was highly unlikely I was ever going to get married, I stopped going to other peoples' weddings. I went to my high school best friend's wedding back in 2002, and haven't been to one since.
Quote from: Kyle RoseYou know precisely the flaw in this. Once I figured out it was highly unlikely I was ever going to get married, I stopped going to other peoples' weddings. I went to my high school best friend's wedding back in 2002, and haven't been to one since.
Is that all a wedding is? A fancy gift exchange? Show up at the wedding. If you are invited, your friends want you there more than they want the fucking toaster.
Quote from: ugarteIs that all a wedding is? A fancy gift exchange? Show up at the wedding. If you are invited, your friends want you there more than they want the fucking toaster.
Weddings are generally too stuffy for me to enjoy myself: most people spend way too much effort and money on weddings, so they wind up being highly-choreographed and highly-stressful affairs rather than occasions to celebrate.
One of my coworkers had what I consider an ideal wedding: having dated for several years, the couple decided one day it was time to get married; so two weeks later they, their immediate families, and a few friends flew out to Las Vegas one weekend, had a very simple ceremony and spent the rest of the weekend enjoying each other's company. No tux; no $5000 wedding cake; no registry; no BS. Most couples make too much of the wedding, when the wedding itself is way less important than the
marriage. I've seen too many marriages fail despite spectacular weddings, including that for one of my best friends.
Most of my friends are wise enough to have a party after they get back from their honeymoons, and those I enjoy attending.
Quote from: ugarteQuote from: Kyle RoseYou know precisely the flaw in this. Once I figured out it was highly unlikely I was ever going to get married, I stopped going to other peoples' weddings. I went to my high school best friend's wedding back in 2002, and haven't been to one since.
Is that all a wedding is? A fancy gift exchange? Show up at the wedding. If you are invited, your friends want you there more than they want the fucking toaster.
I believe the costs that were being referred to include some mix of the following: Taking 1 or more days off work to travel, Renting a tux, getting a hotel room, renting a car, etc.
I know I spent a pretty healthy chunk of change to be able to attend a friends wedding this summer, but I think I got some of it back at the open bar.
Quote from: ugarteQuote from: Kyle RoseYou know precisely the flaw in this. Once I figured out it was highly unlikely I was ever going to get married, I stopped going to other peoples' weddings. I went to my high school best friend's wedding back in 2002, and haven't been to one since.
Is that all a wedding is? A fancy gift exchange? Show up at the wedding. If you are invited, your friends want you there more than they want the fucking toaster.
Screw you, I need that toaster.
Quote from: French RageQuote from: ugarteQuote from: Kyle RoseYou know precisely the flaw in this. Once I figured out it was highly unlikely I was ever going to get married, I stopped going to other peoples' weddings. I went to my high school best friend's wedding back in 2002, and haven't been to one since.
Is that all a wedding is? A fancy gift exchange? Show up at the wedding. If you are invited, your friends want you there more than they want the fucking toaster.
Screw you, I need that toaster.
Sounds like what you need is more friends.
Quote from: ugarteQuote from: French RageQuote from: ugarteQuote from: Kyle RoseYou know precisely the flaw in this. Once I figured out it was highly unlikely I was ever going to get married, I stopped going to other peoples' weddings. I went to my high school best friend's wedding back in 2002, and haven't been to one since.
Is that all a wedding is? A fancy gift exchange? Show up at the wedding. If you are invited, your friends want you there more than they want the fucking toaster.
Screw you, I need that toaster.
Sounds like what you need is more friends.
Or more successful ones.
Quote from: TrotskyQuote from: ugarteQuote from: French RageQuote from: ugarteQuote from: Kyle RoseYou know precisely the flaw in this. Once I figured out it was highly unlikely I was ever going to get married, I stopped going to other peoples' weddings. I went to my high school best friend's wedding back in 2002, and haven't been to one since.
Is that all a wedding is? A fancy gift exchange? Show up at the wedding. If you are invited, your friends want you there more than they want the fucking toaster.
Screw you, I need that toaster.
Sounds like what you need is more friends.
Or more successful ones.
Or enough spending cash to buy your own f-ing toaster.