Facing pushback rather than acquiesence from the University of North Dakota, the NCAA said it might be okay to keep using the Fighting Sioux nickname if two Indian tribes signed off on keeping the name. The first of the two tribes voted by a 2-1 margin with the North Dakota side.
AP story (http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5jXUzdaQnfm7_rfPANUB4MfIBpSLQD97NPG7O0)
IIRC, when Cornell played ND last fall, cornellbigred.com opted to take the PC side of things and rather than use the opponent school's nickname or mascot logo on the pre-game story promo photo as it does with other schools, just overprinted "North Dakota" in green lettering.
[Edit add: Sorry for posting in the Cornell hockey forum. Realized the mistake after hittimg Send.]
Or maybe it won't: UND's Fighting Sioux nickname going away (http://minnesota.publicradio.org/display/web/2009/05/14/fightingsioux_vote/), following a vote by the North Dakota Board of Higher Education. I wonder how much of a role the inability to host regionals at the Ralph played in this.
QuoteThe transition will likely include removing thousands of Sioux logos built into the floors and walls of the Ralph Englestad Arena in Grand Forks.
That is NOT going to be an easy project.
They should keep their logos, call themselves the Fightin' Rorschachs and tell the NCAA that if it sees an offensive image, that's its own subconsciousness' fault.
[quote ftyuv]They should keep their logos, call themselves the Fightin' Rorschachs and tell the NCAA that if it sees an offensive image, that's its own subconsciousness' fault.[/quote](http://assets.sbnation.com/profile_images/16836/Rorscach.jpg)
I'd take that for a mascot.
I haven't seen this posted. From the NYTimes (http://www.nytimes.com/2009/12/19/education/19sioux.html) 12/18, thelawsuit by some tribal members to retain the nickname was thrown out. The decision remains with the State Board of Higher Education. Next meeting is 1/21 in Grand Forks. Nice, it's right before they play us. Maybe a distraction?
Quote from: Jim HylaI haven't seen this posted. From the NYTimes (http://www.nytimes.com/2009/12/19/education/19sioux.html) 12/18, thelawsuit by some tribal members to retain the nickname was thrown out. The decision remains with the State Board of Higher Education. Next meeting is 1/21 in Grand Forks. Nice, it's right before they play us. Maybe a distraction?
Or the opposite: a cause worth fighting for?
(The AP story Jim cites says the court sees the issue in pretty simple terms. The biggest one is whether the North Dakota Board of Higher Education's charter to oversee higher education in North Dakota means what it says. Court says it does.)
Maybe this??
http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t147/Coelacanth64/NDFSioux.jpg
I wonder if they'll call themselves the Ralphs (http://sports.espn.go.com/ncaa/news/story?id=5068989).
And the magnetic stripe debit feature on student IDs will no longer be call wampum.
But it's still okay to call Notre Dame the Fighting Irish on account of what Mel Brooks said in Blazing Saddles.
And while we're on the subject (although getting more and more OT)...
http://sports.espn.go.com/ncaa/news/story?id=5063198
For those unfamiliar, here's the logo the NCAA finds offensive:
http://www.sportslogos.net/logo.php?id=oi73zum2efx27hv3s57n
Edit: Didn't realize how old this story was... but the selection of the Griffin is the current news. Sorry guys.
Quote from: ugarteI wonder if they'll call themselves the Ralphs (http://sports.espn.go.com/ncaa/news/story?id=5068989).
I would find that offensive. ::rolleyes::
Wow, you should check out the siouxsports forum. Quite the discussion there.
Quote from: Greenberg '97For those unfamiliar, here's the logo the NCAA finds offensive:
http://www.sportslogos.net/logo.php?id=oi73zum2efx27hv3s57n
My god, feathers! How did they sleep at night?
Quote from: French RageQuote from: Greenberg '97For those unfamiliar, here's the logo the NCAA finds offensive:
http://www.sportslogos.net/logo.php?id=oi73zum2efx27hv3s57n
My god, feathers! How did they sleep at night?
My bird was very upset with that logo. It is now much happier.
And indeed as mentioned on USCHO, (http://www.uscho.com/2011/04/17/north-dakota-to-keep-fighting-sioux-nickname-logo/) the Grand Forks Herald reports (http://www.grandforksherald.com/event/article/id/200341/) that they get at least another year.
Story says an offical of the state board of education, which holds sway over ND, was looking for a closed meeting with the NCAA to further discuss the matter - since called off by the legislature's statement of inent - and had to be reminded that since it's a state body and it's not a criminal matter or personnel matter, the meeting that wasn't held with the NCAA had to be open. That a matter is controversial is exactly the reason why there should be open meetings.
Regardless, we've already seen the Fighting Sioux logo exorcised by various groups who've already made their own judgment calls. When UND came here to play a couple years back, the Photoshop creation Cornell built to promote the event online used a stylized "ND" rather than the ND mascot. Most other times Cornell uses Big Red Bears and (Fighting?) Quakers and BU Terriers.
Whether the logo really is offensive, it's fun to see how good a job various groups in North Dakota have done thumbing their noses at the outside world. Maybe Wagner College on Staten Island should be the Fighting Mafioso and I'd love to see that logo and mascot.
(http://www.krose.org/~krose/static/wagner.jpg)
Motto: "They look like guys who can get things done."
It's been done.
(http://www.icevault.com/images/Generic/Hockey/hitmen150.gif)
Quote from: TrotskyIt's been done.
(http://www.icevault.com/images/Generic/Hockey/hitmen150.gif)
Awesome. :-)
I still miss the Danbury Trashers:
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/e/e8/Danbury_Trashers.png)
That's racist.
Quote from: TrotskyThat's racist.
The (edit) Oscar the Grouch lobby isn't big enough for anyone to care.
Clearly (at least) this part of my brain has atrophied.
Grand Forks Herald reports that the NCAA is sticking to the 2007 agreement. (http://www.grandforksherald.com/event/article/id/200779) UND will face sanctions for continuing the Sioux mascot.
The Gopher fan sitting next to me at the Frozen Four said that the U. of Minnesota has passed a by-law prohibiting its teams from scheduling non-conference games vs. teams with Native American nicknames. He said that if there were no change in the situation, this would prohibit Minnesota from scheduling the Fighting Sioux once Minnesota left the WCHA. Note: this is all hearsay, which I haven't verified.
Quote from: jkahnThe Gopher fan sitting next to me at the Frozen Four said that the U. of Minnesota has passed a by-law prohibiting its teams from scheduling non-conference games vs. teams with Native American nicknames. He said that if there were no change in the situation, this would prohibit Minnesota from scheduling the Fighting Sioux once Minnesota left the WCHA. Note: this is all hearsay, which I haven't verified.
The Big 10 isn't about to take on Illinois, I see.
Quote from: ugarteQuote from: jkahnThe Gopher fan sitting next to me at the Frozen Four said that the U. of Minnesota has passed a by-law prohibiting its teams from scheduling non-conference games vs. teams with Native American nicknames. He said that if there were no change in the situation, this would prohibit Minnesota from scheduling the Fighting Sioux once Minnesota left the WCHA. Note: this is all hearsay, which I haven't verified.
The Big 10 isn't about to take on Illinois, I see.
And the charity skate with the Chicago Blackhawks is off. Still on is the match vs. the Fighting Irish. Mel Brooks covered the Irish and race/ethnic relations nicely in Blazing Saddles. Sanction and sanctimonious may be the same thoughts.
Quote from: TrotskyIt's been done.
(http://www.icevault.com/images/Generic/Hockey/hitmen150.gif)
My two oldest boys played on their '99 and '00 summer teams last year. Nice coaches, a couple are from B.C. I think. The jerseys, though, are hideous. I had 10 and 11 year kids wearing jerseys with simulated bullet holes and a cigar! Not to mention that baby blue color.............
Their tier 3 junior team is pretty good, they're starting to generate some legitimate D-1 prospects.
North Dakota and N.C.A.A. Are at Odds Again Over University's Sioux Mascot (http://www.nytimes.com/2011/07/13/us/13sioux.html?_r=1&hp)
"University officials hope that a meeting later this month in Indianapolis between Mr. Dalrymple, legislative leaders and N.C.A.A. officials will help resolve the conflict. As it stands, if the university continues to use the name after Aug. 15, its athletics program would face penalties that could jeopardize much-lauded plans to join the Big Sky Conference."
I wonder if a condition for becoming a member of the new hockey "Super Conference" was to not raise a stink about mascots or nicknames ::whistle::
But maybe it won't stick. NCAA reports that North Dakota plans to retire nickname. (http://www.ncaa.org/wps/wcm/connect//public/ncaa/resources/latest+news/2011/august/north+dakota+plans+to+retire+nickname)
Quote from: Jim HylaBut maybe it won't stick. NCAA reports that North Dakota plans to retire nickname. (http://www.ncaa.org/wps/wcm/connect//public/ncaa/resources/latest+news/2011/august/north+dakota+plans+to+retire+nickname)
MCAA might have resolved this sooner but for dealing with Jim Tressel and other tangental enforcement issues.
This, if the NCAA is really serious about it, may be of more significance: http://www.ncaa.org/wps/wcm/connect/public/NCAA/Resources/Latest+News/2011/August/Division+I+leaders+call+for+sweeping+changes+to+college+athletics
I was watching CNN news at 10 last night. They had a segment on this topic, and what was one of the background films showing? UND scoring a goal against us!:-(
Quote from: Al DeFlorioThis, if the NCAA is really serious about it, may be of more significance: http://www.ncaa.org/wps/wcm/connect/public/NCAA/Resources/Latest+News/2011/August/Division+I+leaders+call+for+sweeping+changes+to+college+athletics
While it would be great if the NCAA was serious, this is more likely a case of "I'm shocked to find gambling going on here."
Quote from: TrotskyQuote from: Al DeFlorioThis, if the NCAA is really serious about it, may be of more significance: http://www.ncaa.org/wps/wcm/connect/public/NCAA/Resources/Latest+News/2011/August/Division+I+leaders+call+for+sweeping+changes+to+college+athletics
While it would be great if the NCAA was serious, this is more likely a case of "I'm shocked to find gambling going on here."
Exactly. My thought was, "This too shall pass." David Skorton may run Cornell, but Auburn or LSU or Baylor may be like a South American dictatorship where El Presidente dances, or swings, to the generals' tune. Maryland's basketball graduation rate was 8% (that would be 1 player), Kentucky 31%. Alas, Duke was at 90%+.
North Dakota to discontinue Fighting Sioux nickname, logo, effective Jan. 1
http://www.uscho.com/2011/12/01/north-dakota-to-discontinue-fighting-sioux-nickname-logo-effective-jan-1/#ixzz1fK8qJHnq
Quote from: nyc94North Dakota to discontinue Fighting Sioux nickname, logo, effective Jan. 1
http://www.uscho.com/2011/12/01/north-dakota-to-discontinue-fighting-sioux-nickname-logo-effective-jan-1/#ixzz1fK8qJHnq
The best response by the university would be to never pick another nickname. Everybody would still call them the Sioux but the university couldn't be held liable and it would essentially be a big F.U. to the NC$$.
Quote from: TrotskyQuote from: nyc94North Dakota to discontinue Fighting Sioux nickname, logo, effective Jan. 1
http://www.uscho.com/2011/12/01/north-dakota-to-discontinue-fighting-sioux-nickname-logo-effective-jan-1/#ixzz1fK8qJHnq
The best response by the university would be to never pick another nickname. Everybody would still call them the Sioux but the university couldn't be held liable and it would essentially be a big F.U. to the NC$$.
With the added benefit that it continues to offend a good portion of the Sioux people?
Quote from: Roy 82Quote from: TrotskyQuote from: nyc94North Dakota to discontinue Fighting Sioux nickname, logo, effective Jan. 1
http://www.uscho.com/2011/12/01/north-dakota-to-discontinue-fighting-sioux-nickname-logo-effective-jan-1/#ixzz1fK8qJHnq
The best response by the university would be to never pick another nickname. Everybody would still call them the Sioux but the university couldn't be held liable and it would essentially be a big F.U. to the NC$$.
With the added benefit that it continues to offend a good portion of the Sioux people?
Leave the ND nickname blank and it's 1993-2000 all over again with the artist formerly known as Prince.
Currently they have not chosen another name and they are asking to simply be referred to as North Dakota (that's not likely, too many syllables for play by play and other announcer types for continued use). As well, via twitter, the ice hockey team will continue to wear to Sioux jerseys until late in the season as the new ones will not be ready until then.
Quote from: munchkinCurrently they have not chosen another name and they are asking to simply be referred to as North Dakota (that's not likely, too many syllables for play by play and other announcer types for continued use). As well, via twitter, the ice hockey team will continue to wear to Sioux jerseys until late in the season as the new ones will not be ready until then.
I read somewhere the the legislature (the same one that enacted a law requiring the Sioux name be retained back in March) passed a bill that prohibits NoDak from having a nickname at all until at least January 2015 to allow the dust to settle.
The North Dakota Sue. Have a lawyer on skates.
A sad day. Political correctness wins again.
Quote from: CUontheslopesA sad day. Political correctness wins again.
Yes, how sad that a large, powerful institution will no longer be using a grossly outdated racial caricature to promote their profit-making athletics enterprise. Here, have a hanky.
Quote from: BeeeejQuote from: CUontheslopesA sad day. Political correctness wins again.
Yes, how sad that a large, powerful institution will no longer be using a grossly outdated racial caricature to promote their profit-making athletics enterprise. Here, have a hanky.
But it fit so nicely with UND being generally evil. As evil as you can get in college hockey, anyway.
Quote from: BenQuote from: BeeeejQuote from: CUontheslopesA sad day. Political correctness wins again.
Yes, how sad that a large, powerful institution will no longer be using a grossly outdated racial caricature to promote their profit-making athletics enterprise. Here, have a hanky.
But it fit so nicely with UND being generally evil. As evil as you can get in college hockey, anyway.
Really? I never got that impression from them. Maine? Evil. Minnesota? Evil. But UND?
Quote from: Kyle RoseQuote from: BenQuote from: BeeeejQuote from: CUontheslopesA sad day. Political correctness wins again.
Yes, how sad that a large, powerful institution will no longer be using a grossly outdated racial caricature to promote their profit-making athletics enterprise. Here, have a hanky.
But it fit so nicely with UND being generally evil. As evil as you can get in college hockey, anyway.
Really? I never got that impression from them. Maine? Evil. Minnesota? Evil. But UND?
Maybe I've been watching too many YouTube videos of them getting away with cheap shots and then starting fights.
Quote from: BeeeejQuote from: CUontheslopesA sad day. Political correctness wins again.
Yes, how sad that a large, powerful institution will no longer be using a grossly outdated racial caricature to promote their profit-making athletics enterprise. Here, have a hanky.
Or the elected representatives of the people of North Dakota who decided to keep the logo and mascot were forced to change it by the NC$$. If North Dakota and the people of North Dakota wanted to keep it, they should have been allowed to. There's absolutely nothing racist about the term "Fighting Sioux." Let's see the NCAA crack down on the Fighting Irish.
Quote from: Kyle RoseQuote from: BenQuote from: BeeeejQuote from: CUontheslopesA sad day. Political correctness wins again.
Yes, how sad that a large, powerful institution will no longer be using a grossly outdated racial caricature to promote their profit-making athletics enterprise. Here, have a hanky.
But it fit so nicely with UND being generally evil. As evil as you can get in college hockey, anyway.
Really? I never got that impression from them. Maine? Evil. Minnesota? Evil. But UND?
Yeah, I've always had the Goophers much higher on the evil list. After all, can you imagine Minny ever coming to Lynah?
Quote from: CUontheslopesThere's absolutely nothing racist about the term "Fighting Sioux."
Well, thanks for clearing that up. I'm sorry so many of us were mistaken!
Quote from: CUontheslopesQuote from: BeeeejQuote from: CUontheslopesA sad day. Political correctness wins again.
Yes, how sad that a large, powerful institution will no longer be using a grossly outdated racial caricature to promote their profit-making athletics enterprise. Here, have a hanky.
Or the elected representatives of the people of North Dakota who decided to keep the logo and mascot were forced to change it by the NC$$. If North Dakota and the people of North Dakota wanted to keep it, they should have been allowed to. There's absolutely nothing racist about the term "Fighting Sioux." Let's see the NCAA crack down on the Fighting Irish.
"I am not offended" does not mean the same thing as "that is not racist."
Quote from: ugarteQuote from: CUontheslopesQuote from: BeeeejQuote from: CUontheslopesA sad day. Political correctness wins again.
Yes, how sad that a large, powerful institution will no longer be using a grossly outdated racial caricature to promote their profit-making athletics enterprise. Here, have a hanky.
Or the elected representatives of the people of North Dakota who decided to keep the logo and mascot were forced to change it by the NC$$. If North Dakota and the people of North Dakota wanted to keep it, they should have been allowed to. There's absolutely nothing racist about the term "Fighting Sioux." Let's see the NCAA crack down on the Fighting Irish.
"I am not offended" does not mean the same thing as "that is not racist."
In this case, whether or not the name is "racist" is a subjective question. There's no element of racial discrimination that one could point to. The school's depiction of their name and logo has always been (at least AFAIK) respectful, not like Chief Wahoo of Cleveland. Some supporters think that the nickname honors the Sioux tribe and at least at some point the Sioux nation (or one of them) agreed. Some may think that any use of Indian imagery or names is inherently racist but there are others who disagree. Reasonable minds can differ.
Quote from: Kyle RoseQuote from: BenQuote from: BeeeejQuote from: CUontheslopesA sad day. Political correctness wins again.
Yes, how sad that a large, powerful institution will no longer be using a grossly outdated racial caricature to promote their profit-making athletics enterprise. Here, have a hanky.
But it fit so nicely with UND being generally evil. As evil as you can get in college hockey, anyway.
Really? I never got that impression from them. Maine? Evil. Minnesota? Evil. But UND?
I've been to many Frozen Fours, and seeing how entitled and cavalier their fanbase is at those events has cemented them in the "evil" category in my mind. Plus, The Ralph. It's like the Death Star of college hockey.
"That's no moon."
I have an idea. Let's use some ethnic group as an arbitrary opportunity to voice our political opinions. Because that wouldn't be patronizing at all.
I'm sorry but there's nothing subjective about it. Fighting [INSERT PROPER NAME FOR ANY GROUP] is not racist in any way, shape or form. It's not like they're calling them the "Redskins" or, as someone else pointed out, using a caricature like Chief Wahoo. Fighting Sioux is no more offensive than Fighting New Yorkers. Last time I check "Sioux" was not an ethnic slur. The NCAA merely created an overboard rule which happened to catch the Sioux along with less respectful indian mascots.
And I'm happy to give those of you who see it differently the correct lesson - just because you think something IS subjectively offensive, doesn't mean it is or that the rest of society should bend to your opinion. If anytime someone was subjectively offended we apologized, we'd spend 23.5 hrs out of the day apologizing or being quiet for fear of offending someone.
Quote from: CUontheslopesQuote from: BeeeejQuote from: CUontheslopesA sad day. Political correctness wins again.
Yes, how sad that a large, powerful institution will no longer be using a grossly outdated racial caricature to promote their profit-making athletics enterprise. Here, have a hanky.
Or the elected representatives of the people of North Dakota who decided to keep the logo and mascot were forced to change it by the NC$$. If North Dakota and the people of North Dakota wanted to keep it, they should have been allowed to. There's absolutely nothing racist about the term "Fighting Sioux." Let's see the NCAA crack down on the Fighting Irish.
They were forced to change it because they could not get the Sioux (all of the tribes) to agree to let them use it. It doesn't really matter that the non-Sioux were happy about the name. What matters is whether the elected representatives of the Sioux were happy with it. Not all were, so the name goes. Oh well, we'll have to pick on someone else.::deadhorse::
Quote from: Jim HylaQuote from: CUontheslopesQuote from: BeeeejQuote from: CUontheslopesA sad day. Political correctness wins again.
Yes, how sad that a large, powerful institution will no longer be using a grossly outdated racial caricature to promote their profit-making athletics enterprise. Here, have a hanky.
Or the elected representatives of the people of North Dakota who decided to keep the logo and mascot were forced to change it by the NC$$. If North Dakota and the people of North Dakota wanted to keep it, they should have been allowed to. There's absolutely nothing racist about the term "Fighting Sioux." Let's see the NCAA crack down on the Fighting Irish.
They were forced to change it because they could not get the Sioux (all of the tribes) to agree to let them use it. It doesn't really matter that the non-Sioux were happy about the name. What matters is whether the elected representatives of the Sioux were happy with it. Not all were, so the name goes. Oh well, we'll have to pick on someone else.::deadhorse::
When was the last time all of anyone agreed on anything? Requiring unanimous consent was merely a tactic used by the NCAA to ensure that the name wouldn't stand. I'm not sure you could get the consent of all the states to use the name Fighting Americans.
Quote from: CUontheslopesThe NCAA merely created an overboard rule which happened to catch the Sioux along with less respectful indian mascots.
I see this issue mostly as a slippery slope problem: I would rather the NCAA just stick to the business of setting standard rules for sports and organizing tournaments, and stay out of the business of promoting political agendas, whatever they are. But maybe that's just me: maybe a monopolistic intercollegiate athletic association
should use its dominant market position to foist its majority members' sports-unrelated views on others. UND can of course drop out of the NCAA and go form its own association, right? But that would almost immediately destroy its D1 hockey program, dropping it to the level of the WPI club team overnight. Ah... what a dilemma! Who could possibly have foreseen it? ::demented::
The lesson people never learn is to be careful about the powers they delegate to a democratic organization they initially view as friendly, because these orgs tend to be captured by special interests unrelated to their founding purposes.
Quote from: CUontheslopesI'm sorry but there's nothing subjective about it. Fighting [INSERT PROPER NAME FOR ANY GROUP] is not racist in any way, shape or form. It's not like they're calling them the "Redskins" or, as someone else pointed out, using a caricature like Chief Wahoo. Fighting Sioux is no more offensive than Fighting New Yorkers. Last time I check "Sioux" was not an ethnic slur. The NCAA merely created an overboard rule which happened to catch the Sioux along with less respectful indian mascots.
And I'm happy to give those of you who see it differently the correct lesson - just because you think something IS subjectively offensive, doesn't mean it is or that the rest of society should bend to your opinion. If anytime someone was subjectively offended we apologized, we'd spend 23.5 hrs out of the day apologizing or being quiet for fear of offending someone.
You are a child. A spoiled child who can't play with his toy. In this case, the toy is "the identity of people who aren't him."
Tribal names were, and to a lesser extent are, offensive because they represent an infantilized and romanticized view of a "foreign" culture. That it is possible to heap on extra offense by also using a slur doesn't make the basic idea of using someone else's culture as a symbol of whatever you choose to assign to it inoffensive.
Notre Dame isn't a counterexample. The Notre Dame teams are called "the Fighting Irish" because the Jesuits running the school intentionally appropriated an attempted slur against them (http://nd.edu/~wcawley/corson/whyfightingirish.htm).
I can't really be all that upset about Fighting Sioux when a football team in our nations capital uses a blatant racial slur as their name. And let's not even start with Cleveland's baseball team.
Quote from: ugarteQuote from: CUontheslopesI'm sorry but there's nothing subjective about it. Fighting [INSERT PROPER NAME FOR ANY GROUP] is not racist in any way, shape or form. It's not like they're calling them the "Redskins" or, as someone else pointed out, using a caricature like Chief Wahoo. Fighting Sioux is no more offensive than Fighting New Yorkers. Last time I check "Sioux" was not an ethnic slur. The NCAA merely created an overboard rule which happened to catch the Sioux along with less respectful indian mascots.
And I'm happy to give those of you who see it differently the correct lesson - just because you think something IS subjectively offensive, doesn't mean it is or that the rest of society should bend to your opinion. If anytime someone was subjectively offended we apologized, we'd spend 23.5 hrs out of the day apologizing or being quiet for fear of offending someone.
You are a child. A spoiled child who can't play with his toy. In this case, the toy is "the identity of people who aren't him."
Tribal names were, and to a lesser extent are, offensive because they represent an infantilized and romanticized view of a "foreign" culture. That it is possible to heap on extra offense by also using a slur doesn't make the basic idea of using someone else's culture as a symbol of whatever you choose to assign to it inoffensive.
Notre Dame isn't a counterexample. The Notre Dame teams are called "the Fighting Irish" because the Jesuits running the school intentionally appropriated an attempted slur against them (http://nd.edu/~wcawley/corson/whyfightingirish.htm).
HAHA It's amazing Cornell let you out with a degree. You can't disagree rationally, so you instead take to calling names. Excellent analytical strategy. Ooo or perhaps I could say I'm subjectively offended by you calling me a child. That could be a slur! I demand you immediately cease using the world child permanently because you might offend someone. Absurd.
Tribal names are not slurs or inherently offensive. They are descriptive monikers, names for a noun no different than calling a four-leggeed furry critter a "cat." Maybe we could just stop calling people by any names at all for fear of offending someone. If you don't like the Fighting Sioux I can't see how you could abide the blatent racism of a school right in our very conference! UNION DUTCHMEN! How offensive!!!
"Political correctness" is nothing more than a minority of society attempting to exercise a veto on the speech of the majority, which has the effect of chilling speech altogether. If the federal government did what the NCAA is doing, it would likely be unconstitutional.
"A person can find cause to become upset about almost anything if they are looking to be upset about something. Sometimes, though, there really are reasons to be offended, like in the case of the Redskins, but most of the time it's just someone being over-sensitive and needing to relax a little bit and not be too uptight. There are many more things in the world, and in life, to be legitimately upset over instead of a sports team's nick name or mascot."
http://voices.yahoo.com/politically-incorrect-sports-team-names-7976922.html
Quote from: CUontheslopesQuote from: ugarteQuote from: CUontheslopesI'm sorry but there's nothing subjective about it. Fighting [INSERT PROPER NAME FOR ANY GROUP] is not racist in any way, shape or form. It's not like they're calling them the "Redskins" or, as someone else pointed out, using a caricature like Chief Wahoo. Fighting Sioux is no more offensive than Fighting New Yorkers. Last time I check "Sioux" was not an ethnic slur. The NCAA merely created an overboard rule which happened to catch the Sioux along with less respectful indian mascots.
And I'm happy to give those of you who see it differently the correct lesson - just because you think something IS subjectively offensive, doesn't mean it is or that the rest of society should bend to your opinion. If anytime someone was subjectively offended we apologized, we'd spend 23.5 hrs out of the day apologizing or being quiet for fear of offending someone.
You are a child. A spoiled child who can't play with his toy. In this case, the toy is "the identity of people who aren't him."
Tribal names were, and to a lesser extent are, offensive because they represent an infantilized and romanticized view of a "foreign" culture. That it is possible to heap on extra offense by also using a slur doesn't make the basic idea of using someone else's culture as a symbol of whatever you choose to assign to it inoffensive.
Notre Dame isn't a counterexample. The Notre Dame teams are called "the Fighting Irish" because the Jesuits running the school intentionally appropriated an attempted slur against them (http://nd.edu/~wcawley/corson/whyfightingirish.htm).
HAHA It's amazing Cornell let you out with a degree. You can't disagree rationally, so you instead take to calling names. Excellent analytical strategy. Ooo or perhaps I could say I'm subjectively offended by you calling me a child. That could be a slur! I demand you immediately cease using the world child permanently because you might offend someone. Absurd.
Tribal names are not slurs or inherently offensive. They are descriptive monikers, names for a noun no different than calling a four-leggeed furry critter a "cat." Maybe we could just stop calling people by any names at all for fear of offending someone. If you don't like the Fighting Sioux I can't see how you could abide the blatent racism of a school right in our very conference! UNION DUTCHMEN! How offensive!!!
"Political correctness" is nothing more than a minority of society attempting to exercise a veto on the speech of the majority, which has the effect of chilling speech altogether. If the federal government did what the NCAA is doing, it would likely be unconstitutional.
At least I bother to read before I respond. Do you have a macro set up for that shit? When I called you a child it
was a slur. I get away with it because some of my best kids are children.
I'd like to take a look at the part in bold, from your own screed of stupidity. Then when you realize that you've just - in defense of your point - analogized an entire culture to a cat (another popular choice for naming teams) - I ask you to please turn off the internet for a while.
I believe North Dakota's evil-ness to many stems from having a Nazi-sympathizing benefactor donate $100,000,000 to build a gawdy hockey palace. It was supposed to be $10M - but he got mad over the Sioux issue, so pulled the plug on an across-the-board donation, and pumped it all into the arena instead.
That said, I'd love to see the place some time soon - and the only thing I have against any of them, really, is that their fans complain when every article isn't written about them, or their players don't win every award. There are fans like that everywhere - from my experience, they are just the largest bloc of them.
Also - my understanding is that the NCAA's decision was driven more by the mascots than the name itself.
I don't think anyone is arguing that Redskins isn't the most offensive ... from there, it's a matter of degree, and a matter of personal opinion as to what crosses the line.
Quote from: CUontheslopesIf the federal government did what the NCAA is doing, it would likely be unconstitutional.
Right, but the NCAA is a voluntary, private association while the government can throw you in prison, making it necessary for rules enforced by the latter to be held to a higher standard.
I don't relish playing both sides of this issue: I'm simply trying to be intellectually honest about it. I don't think the courts should be able to tell the NCAA what kinds of rules they can enforce... but I can at the same time think the NCAA is freaking retarded (can I say that?) for implementing this rule, and schools shortsighted hostages for having to put up with it.
Quote from: adamwI believe North Dakota's evil-ness to many stems from having a Nazi-sympathizing benefactor donate $100,000,000 to build a gawdy hockey palace. It was supposed to be $10M - but he got mad over the Sioux issue, so pulled the plug on an across-the-board donation, and pumped it all into the arena instead.
On a related note, Dave Hakstol looks like he could play an SS officer in a war movie. With bleach blonde hair.
As a DC area native, you all can pry the name Redskins from my cold dead hands. Actually, you can pry it from Dan Snyder's cold dead hands and we'll all look the other way from how he got that way.
Quote from: CUontheslopesTribal names are not slurs or inherently offensive.
I can't vouch for the veracity of this information, but one of the comments to the article (http://www.uscho.com/2011/12/01/north-dakota-to-discontinue-fighting-sioux-nickname-logo-effective-jan-1/#ixzz1fK8qJHnq) nyc94 posted yesterday that revived the thread said:
QuoteThe word "Sioux" is a derogatory term that was given to the Lakota Tribe by the rival Ojibwe Tribe. If memory serves me right, it translates to Two Serpents, or Two Devils. That is why some of the local Native tribes are against it, if the mascot was named the Fighting Lakota, it may not of been an issue.
To which another comment replied:
Quoteits actually "snake in the grass" (as told to me by my tour guide at the On-a-slant-villiage, in Ft. Aberham lincoln state park) which can seem degrading but the meaning is contested. Either snake in the grass as a bad thing, or a compliment, when the Ojibwe came to the prarie lands to fight the Sioux they ere use to fighing in the forests of minnesota and didn't know how the sioux camouflaged themselves and hid so well in the prarie... they were like a snake in the grass... Its just a story told to me by a tour guide, but how many times do people say things that are taken the wrong way?
In response to which the original poster linked this article from the Lakota Country Times (http://www.lakotacountrytimes.com/news/2009-03-12/guest/021.html), which said:
Quote"Nadowessi" means little serpent; "Nadowessioux" means two little serpents; "Sioux" is a slang word meaning little devils or demons. Nadowessi refers to the Ojibwa Nation; Nadowessioux refers to the Ojibwa Nation and the Dakota Tribe; Sioux refers to the Dakota Tribe. Later the US government stuck the Lakota and Nakota Tribe in this word Sioux.
...
This word did not and does not come from the Lakota, Dakota or Nakota.
This leads me to believe that while UND and the people of North Dakota may very well have been well-intentioned in using the term "Fighting Sioux" as a tribute to the native Americans in the region, as they claim, there seems to be a real basis for the people being so "recognized" to object to the use.
Quote from: CUontheslopesQuote from: ugarteQuote from: CUontheslopesI'm sorry but there's nothing subjective about it. Fighting [INSERT PROPER NAME FOR ANY GROUP] is not racist in any way, shape or form. It's not like they're calling them the "Redskins" or, as someone else pointed out, using a caricature like Chief Wahoo. Fighting Sioux is no more offensive than Fighting New Yorkers. Last time I check "Sioux" was not an ethnic slur. The NCAA merely created an overboard rule which happened to catch the Sioux along with less respectful indian mascots.
And I'm happy to give those of you who see it differently the correct lesson - just because you think something IS subjectively offensive, doesn't mean it is or that the rest of society should bend to your opinion. If anytime someone was subjectively offended we apologized, we'd spend 23.5 hrs out of the day apologizing or being quiet for fear of offending someone.
You are a child. A spoiled child who can't play with his toy. In this case, the toy is "the identity of people who aren't him."
Tribal names were, and to a lesser extent are, offensive because they represent an infantilized and romanticized view of a "foreign" culture. That it is possible to heap on extra offense by also using a slur doesn't make the basic idea of using someone else's culture as a symbol of whatever you choose to assign to it inoffensive.
Notre Dame isn't a counterexample. The Notre Dame teams are called "the Fighting Irish" because the Jesuits running the school intentionally appropriated an attempted slur against them (http://nd.edu/~wcawley/corson/whyfightingirish.htm).
HAHA It's amazing Cornell let you out with a degree. You can't disagree rationally, so you instead take to calling names. Excellent analytical strategy. Ooo or perhaps I could say I'm subjectively offended by you calling me a child. That could be a slur! I demand you immediately cease using the world child permanently because you might offend someone. Absurd.
Tribal names are not slurs or inherently offensive. They are descriptive monikers, names for a noun no different than calling a four-leggeed furry critter a "cat." Maybe we could just stop calling people by any names at all for fear of offending someone. If you don't like the Fighting Sioux I can't see how you could abide the blatent racism of a school right in our very conference! UNION DUTCHMEN! How offensive!!!
"Political correctness" is nothing more than a minority of society attempting to exercise a veto on the speech of the majority, which has the effect of chilling speech altogether. If the federal government did what the NCAA is doing, it would likely be unconstitutional.
Sad to tell you but societies put curbs on the majority to protect the minority all the time. In part that's what makes the US so strong, respect for minority rights.
But this really should come down to individual respect, much like the discussion about words used by fans at games. If I say something that is offensive to someone, and they let me know that it is, and it seems reasonable to me; then I try and respect them and be more careful. If a large segment of Native Americans in ND are offended and don't want the U to use their name and image, then why in the world can't we just respect that. It's not like they are hurting us by asking us to stop, they just find it disrespectful. To me that's it, end of question, it's over. They don't like it, so why in the world would I do it?
So, you can obviously take my point to the absurd, but please don't. I certainly don't mean that I'd stop doing everything just because someone said so, although I still don't throw candy in Lynah.:-/
They find it offensive, and the NCAA doesn't want to go along with it. It's that simple. I'm certainly happy living in a culture like ours, where we respect the minority.
Quote from: css228I can't really be all that upset about Fighting Sioux when a football team in our nations capital uses a blatant racial slur as their name. And let's not even start with Cleveland's baseball team.
Maybe the symbol had something to do with it. And hasn't even this symbol been cleaned up a bit over the years to a Disney look?
(http://espn.imageg.net/graphics/product_images/pMLB2-3537308dt.jpg)[clear]
I still like the idea of a college telling the NCAA to buzz off and do something useful like nail the next Jim Tressel sooner ... but we really did screw over the Indians. So what's on ND's jersey doesn't seem all that important. I suspect if the team nicknames were respectful of the region's heritage and the logos weren't caricatures, American Indians wouldn't have such an issue.
Quote from: billhowardQuote from: css228I can't really be all that upset about Fighting Sioux when a football team in our nations capital uses a blatant racial slur as their name. And let's not even start with Cleveland's baseball team.
Maybe the symbol had something to do with it. And hasn't even this symbol been cleaned up a bit over the years to a Disney look?
(http://espn.imageg.net/graphics/product_images/pMLB2-3537308dt.jpg)[clear]
Yes.
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/6/68/OldClevelandIndiansLogo.jpg)
The Sioux have played their last game. That is unless a desperation lawsuit changes things. Their new logo:(http://www.grandforksherald.com/media/full/jpg/2011/12/02/und-logo.jpg)
They'd better trademark that. Never know when someone else will want something illegible. Maybe if the Escher Museum gets a hockey team.
First thing I thought when I saw that was Notre Dame. Probably not what you want from your school's logo to make people think of another institution.
Quote from: munchkinFirst thing I thought when I saw that was Notre Dame. Probably not what you want from your school's logo to make people think of another institution.
NoDak was already using some sort of ND logo, which I believe I once heard they had licensed from Notre Dame.
How many rupees do I need to pay Age to design a Fighting Flickertails logo?
You have to license a stylized N and D? Can we show we had the first Big Red nickname and make money? Next: The Ohio State University issues a cease and desist to colleges calling themselves, say, the The Baylor University?
Better: Harvard files look-and-feel lawsuits to colleges offering easy courses that inflate the overall GPA. That might be a winnable case. Where will the defendant find prior art?
I pleased this post has legs. But it'll never be a Harvard Sucks. For longevity and popularity, that's going to stand for longer than Babe Ruth's home run record.
This logo looks like Notre Dame and San Diego State's logos had a love child.
SDSU Logo:
http://content.sportslogos.net/logos/34/826/full/pep2fucfegmv5ngort1u.gif
Quote from: CUontheslopesThis logo looks like Notre Dame and San Diego State's logos had a love child.
SDSU Logo:
http://content.sportslogos.net/logos/34/826/full/pep2fucfegmv5ngort1u.gif
I wonder how much longer that will last. How does "Aztecs" make the cut while "Sioux" does not?
Quote from: ugarteQuote from: CUontheslopesThis logo looks like Notre Dame and San Diego State's logos had a love child.
SDSU Logo:
http://content.sportslogos.net/logos/34/826/full/pep2fucfegmv5ngort1u.gif
I wonder how much longer that will last. How does "Aztecs" make the cut while "Sioux" does not?
There are no Aztecs to sue them.
Quote from: TrotskyQuote from: ugarteQuote from: CUontheslopesThis logo looks like Notre Dame and San Diego State's logos had a love child.
SDSU Logo:
http://content.sportslogos.net/logos/34/826/full/pep2fucfegmv5ngort1u.gif
I wonder how much longer that will last. How does "Aztecs" make the cut while "Sioux" does not?
There are no Aztecs to sue them.
Oh yeah? Just wait until someone in Mexico City wants to build a casino.
Is that an arrow or a rocket propelled grenade at the tip of the logo?
So "The World Turns" again. As reported by USCHO (http://www.uscho.com/2012/02/09/north-dakota-to-resume-use-of-fighting-sioux-nickname/) they are reverting to the Fighting Sioux nickname.
Somehow appropriate that the head of the Board of Higher Education is named Grant SHAFT. 'Cause that's what he's doing.
Then again, "Who is the man who won't risk his neck for his fellow man?" Shaft. Grant Shaft.
Quote from: Jim HylaSo "The World Turns" again. As reported by USCHO (http://www.uscho.com/2012/02/09/north-dakota-to-resume-use-of-fighting-sioux-nickname/) they are reverting to the Fighting Sioux nickname.
I kind of wish they'd just make a decision and stick with it already.
Quote from: Josh '99Quote from: Jim HylaSo "The World Turns" again. As reported by USCHO (http://www.uscho.com/2012/02/09/north-dakota-to-resume-use-of-fighting-sioux-nickname/) they are reverting to the Fighting Sioux nickname.
I kind of wish they'd just make a decision and stick with it already.
From reading the article, I don't think NoDak had a choice. The submission of a petition with sufficient (valid) signatures appears to have compelled the decision. Probably some form of state referendum procedure.
Quote from: ugarteQuote from: Josh '99Quote from: Jim HylaSo "The World Turns" again. As reported by USCHO (http://www.uscho.com/2012/02/09/north-dakota-to-resume-use-of-fighting-sioux-nickname/) they are reverting to the Fighting Sioux nickname.
I kind of wish they'd just make a decision and stick with it already.
From reading the article, I don't think NoDak had a choice. The submission of a petition with sufficient (valid) signatures appears to have compelled the decision. Probably some form of state referendum procedure.
In the
most only useful Hockey-L post (http://lists.maine.edu/cgi/wa?A2=ind1202&L=hockey-l&T=0&P=840) in a decade, from "not that" John Edwards:
QuoteEnough signatures were collected to send November's law (the repeal) to a
referendum. Those petitions were filed on Tuesday, which apparently
suspends the law in question - an amusing fact since they don't even know
yet if there are actually enough valid signatures to put it on the
ballot. Assuming enough are legal, the issue goes to a statewide vote in
June. (Your tax dollars at work!) It's an open question as to how many
signatures came from NDSU fans who just want to be able to yell "Sioux
Suck" whenever they feel like it, whether they are actually playing UND or
not.
Meanwhile, the State Board of Higher Education is now considering trying to
have the April 2011 law overturned on constitutional grounds - something
that might have been worth doing back in - oh, I don't know, maybe - April
2011. If that happens, the June vote would be moot, since it would be a
vote to overturn a law that repeals a non-existent law. It would be the
Seinfeld of referenda.
Quote from: RichHIn the most only useful Hockey-L post (http://lists.maine.edu/cgi/wa?A2=ind1202&L=hockey-l&T=0&P=840) in a decade, from "not that" John Edwards:
Don't knock hockey-l. I need my UMass-Dartmouth box scores!
If I posted to hockey-l I wonder if it would set a record for longest duration between two posts on a listserv. It is probably about 16 years.
At first blush I can't imagine what constitutional grounds there would be to invalidate a law of this type. but then I imagine it's based on the North Dakota constitution and state constitutions have a bunch of seemingly bizarre provisions. maybe something about authority over these issues being granted to the Board?
Wasn't the NCAA threatening to impose sanctions on UND if they didn't change their nickname?
Quote from: BenWasn't the NCAA threatening to impose sanctions on UND if they didn't change their nickname?
Yes and that threat is presumably still be there. From a story linked earlier in the thread:
QuoteIn 2005 the NCAA barred UND from hosting post season tournaments or using the nickname if its teams played in tournaments.
This could easily have come from the Onion.
New York Times on the current limbo:
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/02/19/sports/push-to-save-fighting-sioux-name-puts-north-dakota-in-costly-limbo.html?_r=1&partner=rss&emc=rss
Quote from: nyc94New York Times on the current limbo:
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/02/19/sports/push-to-save-fighting-sioux-name-puts-north-dakota-in-costly-limbo.html?_r=1&partner=rss&emc=rss
Which says living in limbo is hurting ND and so will retaining the nickname because some other schools won't play schools with Indian mascot names. So the athletic department would rather this be over and the Fighting Sioux nickname be gone.
The latest incident (http://www.kare11.com/news/article/963397/396/Duluth-hockey-fans-warned-after-racist-chants) since the resumption of the nickname
Quote from: css228The latest incident (http://www.kare11.com/news/article/963397/396/Duluth-hockey-fans-warned-after-racist-chants) since the resumption of the nickname
Chanting "smallpox blankets" at actual native americans is racist. Chanting "smallpox blankets" at a bunch of white guys from Minnesota and Western Canada who play for a team with a native american nickname is not.
Quote from: Josh '99Quote from: css228The latest incident (http://www.kare11.com/news/article/963397/396/Duluth-hockey-fans-warned-after-racist-chants) since the resumption of the nickname
Chanting "smallpox blankets" at actual native americans is racist. Chanting "smallpox blankets" at a bunch of white guys from Minnesota and Western Canada who play for a team with a native american nickname is not.
Yep. And it's actually kind of funny in this context.
Quote from: Josh '99Quote from: css228The latest incident (http://www.kare11.com/news/article/963397/396/Duluth-hockey-fans-warned-after-racist-chants) since the resumption of the nickname
Chanting "smallpox blankets" at actual native americans is racist. Chanting "smallpox blankets" at a bunch of white guys from Minnesota and Western Canada who play for a team with a native american nickname is not.
The Sioux tribe that supported the UND mascot name might disagree with you.
Quote from: Josh '99Chanting "smallpox blankets" at actual native americans is racist.
Drawing attention to race or a distinguishable property of a race as a means of mocking someone feels like racism to me, especially since the people chanting it are not thinking, "Let's make fun of those European descendants who murdered Native Americans with smallpox blankets!"
That said, I have a hard time caring if it's merely taunting: it's not like these people are being harassed by the police for driving while Native American. People need to lighten up and/or grow a thicker skin.
Quote from: Kyle RoseQuote from: Josh '99Chanting "smallpox blankets" at actual native americans is racist.
Drawing attention to race or a distinguishable property of a race as a means of mocking someone feels like racism to me, especially since the people chanting it are not thinking, "Let's make fun of those European descendants who murdered Native Americans with smallpox blankets!"
No, they're thinking, "let's use such a ridiculously stupid and objectionable referent that it's
obvious we're not being racist," which is actually a way of making fun of
real racists. Parody is turning stupidity against itself.
Q. "How many feminists does is take to screw in a lightbulb?"
A. "That's not funny."
Objecting to parody for being insensitive is kind of... underscoring the whole point of the parody?
Quote from: Kyle RoseQuote from: Josh '99Chanting "smallpox blankets" at actual native americans is racist.
Drawing attention to race or a distinguishable property of a race as a means of mocking someone feels like racism to me, especially since the people chanting it are not thinking, "Let's make fun of those European descendants who murdered Native Americans with smallpox blankets!"
That said, I have a hard time caring if it's merely taunting: it's not like these people are being harassed by the police for driving while Native American. People need to lighten up and/or grow a thicker skin.
Wow, Kyle, I almost felt like I was going to agree with your post. Then you had to go and blow it.:-}You might feel differently if you were the one being taunted. Or, from reading your posts, maybe you wouldn't. I just don't see why it's necessary to use racist comments, cheers, taunts,... There are so many ways to cheer and have fun. Why do some feel it's necessary to put someone else down by the use of racist, or for that matter vulgar, comments?
Having watched, and listened, to Colgate, Clarkson, RPI, and Union fans (SLU doesn't have fans that cheer anything) in their own rink, I'd take our cheers over their junk anytime.
Quote from: Jim HylaWow, Kyle, I almost felt like I was going to agree with your post. Then you had to go and blow it.:-}You might feel differently if you were the one being taunted. Or, from reading your posts, maybe you wouldn't.
Natch. I got taunted plenty in middle school. I survived. And in those cases it was truly mean-spirited, whereas in the case of an entire rink chanting something rude it's unlikely most of the people involved really feel all that strongly about the link between the target of the taunt and smallpox blankets or blow jobs or whatever: they're chanting along with everyone else because it's a chance to feel naughty without being called out on it, and because it's *fun*. The best thing for the target to do is to laugh it off. I suspect most of the opposing players do.
QuoteI just don't see why it's necessary to use racist comments, cheers, taunts,... There are so many ways to cheer and have fun. Why do some feel it's necessary to put someone else down by the use of racist, or for that matter vulgar, comments?...Having watched, and listened, to Colgate, Clarkson, RPI, and Union fans (SLU doesn't have fans that cheer anything) in their own rink, I'd take our cheers over their junk anytime.
What, you mean like the boyfriend chant? Or the remote control goalie chant? Or the "Sieve!" chant? Or the "toothpaste!/bald!/ugly!/New Jersey!safety school!" chant?
Face it: Cornell fans base at least half our cheering on taunting the other team. That's a large part of why it's fun. I think I might die of boredom if the only thing we had was "Let's Go Red!"
Quote from: Josh '99Quote from: css228The latest incident (http://www.kare11.com/news/article/963397/396/Duluth-hockey-fans-warned-after-racist-chants) since the resumption of the nickname
Chanting "smallpox blankets" at actual native americans is racist. Chanting "smallpox blankets" at a bunch of white guys from Minnesota and Western Canada who play for a team with a native american nickname is not.
It's lowbrow and fairly uninspired. If it bothers anyone in the rink it makes me sick.I think getting rid of Sioux is not necessary but threads like this could change my mind.
Quote from: Kyle RoseQuote from: Jim HylaWow, Kyle, I almost felt like I was going to agree with your post. Then you had to go and blow it.:-}You might feel differently if you were the one being taunted. Or, from reading your posts, maybe you wouldn't.
Natch. I got taunted plenty in middle school. I survived. And in those cases it was truly mean-spirited, whereas in the case of an entire rink chanting something rude it's unlikely most of the people involved really feel all that strongly about the link between the target of the taunt and smallpox blankets or blow jobs or whatever: they're chanting along with everyone else because it's a chance to feel naughty without being called out on it, and because it's *fun*. The best thing for the target to do is to laugh it off. I suspect most of the opposing players do.
QuoteI just don't see why it's necessary to use racist comments, cheers, taunts,... There are so many ways to cheer and have fun. Why do some feel it's necessary to put someone else down by the use of racist, or for that matter vulgar, comments?...Having watched, and listened, to Colgate, Clarkson, RPI, and Union fans (SLU doesn't have fans that cheer anything) in their own rink, I'd take our cheers over their junk anytime.
What, you mean like the boyfriend chant? Or the remote control goalie chant? Or the "Sieve!" chant? Or the "toothpaste!/bald!/ugly!/New Jersey!safety school!" chant?
Face it: Cornell fans base at least half our cheering on taunting the other team. That's a large part of why it's fun. I think I might die of boredom if the only thing we had was "Let's Go Red!"
I probably went in the wrong direction when I said taunting. I was really talking about racist or vulgar chants/ taunts. We've all gone through middle school, or junior high in my days.::demented:: So we've experienced some of it, but that's not the same as being racist. I don't consider your above taunts out of line, but rather what Coach Schafer was concerned about. It's that type of "cheer" that my above mentioned schools haven't gotten above.
Quote from: Jim HylaQuote from: Josh '99Quote from: css228The latest incident (http://www.kare11.com/news/article/963397/396/Duluth-hockey-fans-warned-after-racist-chants) since the resumption of the nickname
Chanting "smallpox blankets" at actual native americans is racist. Chanting "smallpox blankets" at a bunch of white guys from Minnesota and Western Canada who play for a team with a native american nickname is not.
The Sioux tribe that supported the UND mascot name might disagree with you.
Yeah, I've sort of had second thoughts on this since typing my initial comment this morning. In a vacuum I still don't think it's racist, and is even kinda funny (albeit in a lowbrow way, as Marty points out), though in the interest of full disclosure I should note that I think Duluth has a great group of fans (one of the best in the non-Lynah division) and so I'm perhaps predisposed to give them the benefit of the doubt that they didn't intend any offense toward actual Sioux.
That being said, hockey games are of course not played in a vacuum, and you have to reasonably assume that there will be native americans who will hear about this, and that their reaction will be something along the lines of "hey assholes - still not funny."
But then, taking it a step further, if you're the UND athletic department, don't you have to know that there's a reasonable possibility that this is going to happen if you stick with the "Fighting Sioux" nickname, and conclude that maybe you have some sort of responsibility to prevent it? (This isn't blaming the victim, because UND isn't the victim.)
Quote from: Kyle RoseQuote from: Josh '99Chanting "smallpox blankets" at actual native americans is racist.
Drawing attention to race or a distinguishable property of a race as a means of mocking someone feels like racism to me, especially since the people chanting it are not thinking, "Let's make fun of those European descendants who murdered Native Americans with smallpox blankets!"
That said, I have a hard time caring if it's merely taunting: it's not like these people are being harassed by the police for driving while Native American. People need to lighten up and/or grow a thicker skin.
If we were playing Notre Dame, would it be racist to chant "Potato Famine"?
Quote from: KeithKQuote from: Kyle RoseQuote from: Josh '99Chanting "smallpox blankets" at actual native americans is racist.
Drawing attention to race or a distinguishable property of a race as a means of mocking someone feels like racism to me, especially since the people chanting it are not thinking, "Let's make fun of those European descendants who murdered Native Americans with smallpox blankets!"
That said, I have a hard time caring if it's merely taunting: it's not like these people are being harassed by the police for driving while Native American. People need to lighten up and/or grow a thicker skin.
If we were playing Notre Dame, would it be racist to chant "Potato Famine"?
Without answering the "is it racist" question, a group can get in trouble for it...
http://news.stanford.edu/news/1997/october15/irish.html
Quote from: TrotskyQuote from: Kyle RoseQuote from: Josh '99Chanting "smallpox blankets" at actual native americans is racist.
Drawing attention to race or a distinguishable property of a race as a means of mocking someone feels like racism to me, especially since the people chanting it are not thinking, "Let's make fun of those European descendants who murdered Native Americans with smallpox blankets!"
No, they're thinking, "let's use such a ridiculously stupid and objectionable referent that it's obvious we're not being racist," which is actually a way of making fun of real racists. Parody is turning stupidity against itself.
Q. "How many feminists does is take to screw in a lightbulb?"
A. "That's not funny."
Objecting to parody for being insensitive is kind of... underscoring the whole point of the parody?
I agree.
Most of my ancestors were English, but I don't hate the French for wanting to wipe them off the map 200 years ago. (I mean, not when there are so many REAL reasons to hate the French). Just because A's ancestors did nasty things to B's ancestors doesn't mean that a joke about it means anything in the current world.
Quote from: KeithKQuote from: Kyle RoseQuote from: Josh '99Chanting "smallpox blankets" at actual native americans is racist.
Drawing attention to race or a distinguishable property of a race as a means of mocking someone feels like racism to me, especially since the people chanting it are not thinking, "Let's make fun of those European descendants who murdered Native Americans with smallpox blankets!"
That said, I have a hard time caring if it's merely taunting: it's not like these people are being harassed by the police for driving while Native American. People need to lighten up and/or grow a thicker skin.
If we were playing Notre Dame, would it be racist to chant "Potato Famine"?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Famine_song
Quote from: jtwcornell91Quote from: KeithKQuote from: Kyle RoseQuote from: Josh '99Chanting "smallpox blankets" at actual native americans is racist.
Drawing attention to race or a distinguishable property of a race as a means of mocking someone feels like racism to me, especially since the people chanting it are not thinking, "Let's make fun of those European descendants who murdered Native Americans with smallpox blankets!"
That said, I have a hard time caring if it's merely taunting: it's not like these people are being harassed by the police for driving while Native American. People need to lighten up and/or grow a thicker skin.
If we were playing Notre Dame, would it be racist to chant "Potato Famine"?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Famine_song
Quoting FA and SPL responses to antagonistic chanting is probably not the best bet, since if they could they'd put a chip in each fan's head upon entrance to the terrace.
Quote from: Jim HylaYou might feel differently if you were the one being taunted. Or, from reading your posts, maybe you wouldn't. I just don't see why it's necessary to use racist comments, cheers, taunts,... There are so many ways to cheer and have fun. Why do some feel it's necessary to put someone else down by the use of racist, or for that matter vulgar, comments?
The point here is that the particular cheer is exactly the
opposite of racist. I recommend a season of Chapelle Show to demonstrate the difference.
QuoteHaving watched, and listened, to Colgate, Clarkson, RPI, and Union fans (SLU doesn't have fans that cheer anything) in their own rink, I'd take our cheers over their junk anytime.
Because, "Hey Clarkson! DIEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!" is not taunting.
Quote from: TrotskyQuote from: jtwcornell91Quote from: KeithKQuote from: Kyle RoseQuote from: Josh '99Chanting "smallpox blankets" at actual native americans is racist.
Drawing attention to race or a distinguishable property of a race as a means of mocking someone feels like racism to me, especially since the people chanting it are not thinking, "Let's make fun of those European descendants who murdered Native Americans with smallpox blankets!"
That said, I have a hard time caring if it's merely taunting: it's not like these people are being harassed by the police for driving while Native American. People need to lighten up and/or grow a thicker skin.
If we were playing Notre Dame, would it be racist to chant "Potato Famine"?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Famine_song
Quoting FA and SPL responses to antagonistic chanting is probably not the best bet, since if they could they'd put a chip in each fan's head upon entrance to the terrace.
If they were in charge at Lynah, the students would be forced to sit down. They and the ECB are not interested in fans, just money. Fortunately (and unfortunately), they're somewhat incompetent.
Quote from: TrotskyQuote from: Jim HylaYou might feel differently if you were the one being taunted. Or, from reading your posts, maybe you wouldn't. I just don't see why it's necessary to use racist comments, cheers, taunts,... There are so many ways to cheer and have fun. Why do some feel it's necessary to put someone else down by the use of racist, or for that matter vulgar, comments?
The point here is that the particular cheer is exactly the opposite of racist. I recommend a season of Chapelle Show to demonstrate the difference.
QuoteHaving watched, and listened, to Colgate, Clarkson, RPI, and Union fans (SLU doesn't have fans that cheer anything) in their own rink, I'd take our cheers over their junk anytime.
Because, "Hey Clarkson! DIEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!" is not taunting.
If you read my follow up post, I said taunting was not what I was talking about, but racist or vulgar cheers. And I still feel cheering "smallpox blankets", to a group who feel they are representing the Sioux, is racist. And thanks for pointing out how I need to understand the difference, I needed that.::rolleyes::
Quote from: Jim HylaAnd I still feel cheering "smallpox blankets", to a group who feel they are representing the Sioux, is racist.
I hereby declare you racist for mixing up the Sioux and the Ottawa (http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/1088/did-whites-ever-give-native-americans-blankets-infected-with-smallpox). They aren't all the same, you know...
Quote from: TrotskyQuote from: Kyle RoseQuote from: Josh '99Chanting "smallpox blankets" at actual native americans is racist.
Drawing attention to race or a distinguishable property of a race as a means of mocking someone feels like racism to me, especially since the people chanting it are not thinking, "Let's make fun of those European descendants who murdered Native Americans with smallpox blankets!"
No, they're thinking, "let's use such a ridiculously stupid and objectionable referent that it's obvious we're not being racist," which is actually a way of making fun of real racists. Parody is turning stupidity against itself.
Q. "How many feminists does is take to screw in a lightbulb?"
A. "That's not funny."
Objecting to parody for being insensitive is kind of... underscoring the whole point of the parody?
If you think the UMD fans were parodying racism by chanting that, I think you're WAAAAY overthinking it. It seems far more likely that they were thinking "this would be a funny cheer," end of.
Quote from: Josh '99If you think the UMD fans were parodying racism by chanting that, I think you're WAAAAY overthinking it. It seems far more likely that they were thinking "this would be a funny cheer," end of.
+1 isn't sufficient: I must add a resounding
QFT.
Quote from: Kyle RoseQuote from: Josh '99If you think the UMD fans were parodying racism by chanting that, I think you're WAAAAY overthinking it. It seems far more likely that they were thinking "this would be a funny cheer," end of.
+1 isn't sufficient: I must add a resounding QFT.
I will throw in the obligatory "
THIS."
Quote from: BeeeejQuote from: Kyle RoseQuote from: Josh '99If you think the UMD fans were parodying racism by chanting that, I think you're WAAAAY overthinking it. It seems far more likely that they were thinking "this would be a funny cheer," end of.
+1 isn't sufficient: I must add a resounding QFT.
I will throw in the obligatory "THIS."
You go, girl!
Four syllables yelled at the top of your lungs in a crowded arena lacks subtlety and nuance ("you see, it's irony, because it's white players wearing jerseys with an Indian logo, not Native Americans wearing the jerseys"). And if there's anyone who'd fail to see irony or reverse humor, it would be the student or faculty advisory board sitting in judgment of the alleged miscreants. And it's only a game.
NCAA says it will make North Dakota forfeit any postseason games in which the nickname or logo is used by the team, band or cheerleaders. This, and the inability to host a postseason game, could be a very big deal for the women's hockey team.
http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5jG11e-ApBG33SAsaFmoXsSMHv0PQ?docId=aedf9db29b84447da965c3ad8fb537ff
Quote from: WederNCAA says it will make North Dakota forfeit any postseason games in which the nickname or logo is used by the team, band or cheerleaders. This, and the inability to host a postseason game, could be a very big deal for the women's hockey team.
http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5jG11e-ApBG33SAsaFmoXsSMHv0PQ?docId=aedf9db29b84447da965c3ad8fb537ff
The second A in NCAA apparently stands for Assholes.
Well, on the one hand, it's stupid.
But on the other hand, next time don't steal a continent.
Quote from: Jeff Hopkins '82Quote from: WederNCAA says it will make North Dakota forfeit any postseason games in which the nickname or logo is used by the team, band or cheerleaders. This, and the inability to host a postseason game, could be a very big deal for the women's hockey team.
http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5jG11e-ApBG33SAsaFmoXsSMHv0PQ?docId=aedf9db29b84447da965c3ad8fb537ff
The second A in NCAA apparently stands for Assholes.
Maybe the Sioux minority doesn't think so.
Quote from: WederNCAA says it will make North Dakota forfeit any postseason games in which the nickname or logo is used by the team, band or cheerleaders. This, and the inability to host a postseason game, could be a very big deal for the women's hockey team.
http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5jG11e-ApBG33SAsaFmoXsSMHv0PQ?docId=aedf9db29b84447da965c3ad8fb537ff
The NCAA setting standards for what is good, moral, and decent. Priceless.
Here's the NCAA letter to UND spelling out it's punishment. (http://www.uscho.com/2012/02/29/ncaa-announces-sanctions-to-north-dakota-for-use-of-nickname-logo/)
Quote from: TrotskyWell, on the one hand, it's stupid.
But on the other hand, next time don't steal a continent.
Perhaps we should give Northern Europe back to the Celts too?
Quote from: Jim HylaHere's the NCAA letter to UND spelling out it's punishment. (http://www.uscho.com/2012/02/29/ncaa-announces-sanctions-to-north-dakota-for-use-of-nickname-logo/)
I love the reference to hostile or abusive racial/ethnic/national original references". There's no way that the Sioux name and logo can be reasonably construed as "hostile or abusive". At least in a world where Florida State's logo is acceptable.
Here's what I would dearly lvoe to see: NoDak makes it the hockey tournament and advances to the finals. They then skate out in their full logo gear. The NC$$ is faced with the choice of letting them play or cancelling a nationally televised event with at least medium profile.
Quote from: KeithKQuote from: Jim HylaHere's the NCAA letter to UND spelling out it's punishment. (http://www.uscho.com/2012/02/29/ncaa-announces-sanctions-to-north-dakota-for-use-of-nickname-logo/)
I love the reference to hostile or abusive racial/ethnic/national original references". There's no way that the Sioux name and logo can be reasonably construed as "hostile or abusive". At least in a world where Florida State's logo is acceptable.
Here's what I would dearly lvoe to see: NoDak makes it the hockey tournament and advances to the finals. They then skate out in their full logo gear. The NC$$ is faced with the choice of letting them play or cancelling a nationally televised event with at least medium profile.
Couldn't agree more. I'd love to see it happen, so long as Cornell's the opponent. I'd have no problem taking a national title by forfeit though haha. I'll wait for the NCAA to go after Union for being the Dutchmen next!
Quote from: CUontheslopesQuote from: KeithKHere's what I would dearly lvoe to see: NoDak makes it the hockey tournament and advances to the finals. They then skate out in their full logo gear. The NC$$ is faced with the choice of letting them play or cancelling a nationally televised event with at least medium profile.
Couldn't agree more. I'd love to see it happen, so long as Cornell's the opponent. I'd have no problem taking a national title by forfeit though haha. I'll wait for the NCAA to go after Union for being the Dutchmen next!
I don't even remotely want a national title by forfeit. Can you imagine the ranting and raving that would spew forth from fans of dozens of other schools during the umpteen years that would pass before we won another one legitimately?
Quote from: Jim HylaHere's the NCAA letter to UND spelling out it's punishment. (http://www.uscho.com/2012/02/29/ncaa-announces-sanctions-to-north-dakota-for-use-of-nickname-logo/)
Gee, if I was sending out such an "official letter" I would proofread it a couple of times and make sure I got the names of the principal parties written and spelled correctly. I would like to see Keith's scenario played out (but not at Cornell's expense).
I'm torn. On one hand, I don't really think the logo/team name is that bad. There's some ambiguity to exactly who "Sioux" refers to and all, but it could be worse.
On the other hand, enough bad things can't happen to Ralph Englestad's legacy.
Quote from: KeithKQuote from: TrotskyWell, on the one hand, it's stupid.
But on the other hand, next time don't steal a continent.
Perhaps we should give Northern Europe back to the Celts too?
You have a lot of Gaul making such a comment. :-D
On a more serious note, there are a fair number of folks here who think that if ND cannot get some sort of agreement with the Sioux tribes (yes, I know they have an agreement with one) then it is reasonable for them to stop using the name and logo. This action has little to do with the NCAA itself. They are just the "stick". Obviously, there are differing opinions in this forum. To help enlighten those who differ with me :-D I am looking for George Carlin's routine about what sports teams might be named if the Indians had won. No luck yet with Google and YouTube videos. Any pointers?
Quote from: KeithKQuote from: Jim HylaHere's the NCAA letter to UND spelling out it's punishment. (http://www.uscho.com/2012/02/29/ncaa-announces-sanctions-to-north-dakota-for-use-of-nickname-logo/)
I love the reference to hostile or abusive racial/ethnic/national original references". There's no way that the Sioux name and logo can be reasonably construed as "hostile or abusive". At least in a world where Florida State's logo is acceptable.
Well, there was the article quoted somewhere upthread where a tribal historian noted that the actual origin of the word "Sioux" was as a disparaging nickname for the [whatever it was that the tribe was originally called]. Didn't the article say it means "snake in the grass" or something like that? It's there but I don't have time to hunt for it right now. In any case, based on the fact that the term actually originated to disparage the native Americans so labeled, one could reasonably argue that its continued use is "hostile and abusive". Like if Union's team was called the "Skating Sexual Deviants" or something like that. (Though we all know that's actually BU.)
That being said, do I really think that's the basis of the NCAA's claim? Doubtful.
Quote from: CUontheslopesQuote from: KeithKQuote from: Jim HylaHere's the NCAA letter to UND spelling out it's punishment. (http://www.uscho.com/2012/02/29/ncaa-announces-sanctions-to-north-dakota-for-use-of-nickname-logo/)
I love the reference to hostile or abusive racial/ethnic/national original references". There's no way that the Sioux name and logo can be reasonably construed as "hostile or abusive". At least in a world where Florida State's logo is acceptable.
Here's what I would dearly lvoe to see: NoDak makes it the hockey tournament and advances to the finals. They then skate out in their full logo gear. The NC$$ is faced with the choice of letting them play or cancelling a nationally televised event with at least medium profile.
Couldn't agree more. I'd love to see it happen, so long as Cornell's the opponent. I'd have no problem taking a national title by forfeit though haha. I'll wait for the NCAA to go after Union for being the Dutchmen next!
Recompense for forforeiting that 1940s Fifth Down game to the Dartmouth, uh, what was their nickname?
I was searching the Grand Forks Herald and came up with this.
QuoteAPPLE VALLEY, Minn. — A Twin Cities man who allegedly drove a Zamboni at a peewee hockey game while drunk is now charged with DWI.
Thirty-four-year-old Joel Bruss of Apple Valley was charged this week with four counts of driving while impaired.
According to the complaint, Bruss had a blood-alcohol content of 0.32 percent — four times the legal limit for driving in Minnesota.
Parents at an Apple Valley ice arena called police on Jan. 30 to report that Bruss was driving the ice-resurfacing machine erratically.
According to the complaint, when police arrived at Hayes Ice Arena, Bruss had gotten the Zamboni stuck half-on and half-off the ice.
The St. Paul Pioneer Press reports Bruss has been suspended from his part-time job.
He did not immediately return a phone call for comment Thursday.
Quote from: Jim HylaI was searching the Grand Forks Herald and came up with this. QuoteAPPLE VALLEY, Minn. — A Twin Cities man who allegedly drove a Zamboni at a peewee hockey game while drunk is now charged with DWI.
Thirty-four-year-old Joel Bruss of Apple Valley was charged this week with four counts of driving while impaired.
According to the complaint, Bruss had a blood-alcohol content of 0.32 percent — four times the legal limit for driving in Minnesota.
Parents at an Apple Valley ice arena called police on Jan. 30 to report that Bruss was driving the ice-resurfacing machine erratically.
According to the complaint, when police arrived at Hayes Ice Arena, Bruss had gotten the Zamboni stuck half-on and half-off the ice.
The St. Paul Pioneer Press reports Bruss has been suspended from his part-time job.
He did not immediately return a phone call for comment Thursday.
Joel Bruss just called. From outside the Palms.
Quote from: Jim HylaI was searching the Grand Forks Herald and came up with this. QuoteAPPLE VALLEY, Minn. — A Twin Cities man who allegedly drove a Zamboni at a peewee hockey game while drunk is now charged with DWI.
Thirty-four-year-old Joel Bruss of Apple Valley was charged this week with four counts of driving while impaired.
According to the complaint, Bruss had a blood-alcohol content of 0.32 percent — four times the legal limit for driving in Minnesota.
Parents at an Apple Valley ice arena called police on Jan. 30 to report that Bruss was driving the ice-resurfacing machine erratically.
According to the complaint, when police arrived at Hayes Ice Arena, Bruss had gotten the Zamboni stuck half-on and half-off the ice.
The St. Paul Pioneer Press reports Bruss has been suspended from his part-time job.
He did not immediately return a phone call for comment Thursday.
There is video with awesome commentary (http://bcove.me/ipokzmc4). You have to watch a 15 second commercial but it's worth it.
Quote from: CUontheslopesQuote from: KeithKQuote from: Jim HylaHere's the NCAA letter to UND spelling out it's punishment. (http://www.uscho.com/2012/02/29/ncaa-announces-sanctions-to-north-dakota-for-use-of-nickname-logo/)
I love the reference to hostile or abusive racial/ethnic/national original references". There's no way that the Sioux name and logo can be reasonably construed as "hostile or abusive". At least in a world where Florida State's logo is acceptable.
Here's what I would dearly lvoe to see: NoDak makes it the hockey tournament and advances to the finals. They then skate out in their full logo gear. The NC$$ is faced with the choice of letting them play or cancelling a nationally televised event with at least medium profile.
Couldn't agree more. I'd love to see it happen, so long as Cornell's the opponent. I'd have no problem taking a national title by forfeit though haha. I'll wait for the NCAA to go after Union for being the Dutchmen next!
This should happen but not if Cornell is involved. I'd love the NCAA to get shown up like that, but dont want too win an NCAA title like that
Video tracking of the Zamboni, especially going offscreen as Zamboni breaks away toward the left end of the rink, bears homage to great Redcasts of the past.
Urban Outfitter's Irish line of merchandise (http://inamerica.blogs.cnn.com/2012/03/06/kiss-me-im-irate-st-pattys-line-irks-some-irish/?hpt=hp_bn8)
Reminded me of this thread but regarding Notre Dame. Fighting Irish - okay. Drunken Irish - not okay
North Dakota citizens vote to let the school drop the nickname (http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_NORTH_DAKOTA_PRIMARY_FIGHTING_SIOUX?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2012-06-12-23-00-55)
Quote from: jtn27North Dakota citizens vote to let the school drop the nickname (http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_NORTH_DAKOTA_PRIMARY_FIGHTING_SIOUX?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2012-06-12-23-00-55)
Maybe they can change the name to "Fighting (the) Sioux."
Quote from: jtn27North Dakota citizens vote to let the school drop the nickname (http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_NORTH_DAKOTA_PRIMARY_FIGHTING_SIOUX?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2012-06-12-23-00-55)
The vote was 2-1; that's conclusive. The AP reported that one of the state's two tribes lobbied to retain the Sioux nickname: "Some American Indians from the state's two namesake tribes lobbied for the name and logo to be kept, arguing that they reflected a positive image for their tribes. Eunice Davidson, an enrolled member of the Spirit Lake tribe and member of the committee to save the nickname, was too devastated to talk about the result, her husband Dave Davidson said."
I could see this revisited in a decade where the Indians charge the NCAA with eliminating their heritage and the NCAA orders the name changed to North Dakota Sacred Sioux from the North Dakota Bakken Oil Energy Independents. (If Princeton can fit Sharam Fouladgar-Mercer and Grant Goeckner-Zoeller on jerseys, this will, too.)
This is no Harvard S*cks thread, but still, it had more legs than I suspected when it launched in 2009.
Quote from: billhowardI could see this revisited in a decade where the Indians charge the NCAA with eliminating their heritage and the NCAA orders the name changed to North Dakota Sacred Sioux from the North Dakota Bakken Oil Energy Independents. (If Princeton can fit Sharam Fouladgar-Mercer and Grant Goeckner-Zoeller on jerseys, this will, too.)
Sharam Fouladgar-Mercer wore his first name on his jersey.
Quote from: Josh '99Quote from: billhowardI could see this revisited in a decade where the Indians charge the NCAA with eliminating their heritage and the NCAA orders the name changed to North Dakota Sacred Sioux from the North Dakota Bakken Oil Energy Independents. (If Princeton can fit Sharam Fouladgar-Mercer and Grant Goeckner-Zoeller on jerseys, this will, too.)
Sharam Fouladgar-Mercer wore his first name on his jersey.
As did Dov Grumet-Morris' sister Aviva, I think.
Also: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702303768104577462663474007608.html?mod=googlenews_wsj
Quote from: WederQuote from: Josh '99Quote from: billhowardI could see this revisited in a decade where the Indians charge the NCAA with eliminating their heritage and the NCAA orders the name changed to North Dakota Sacred Sioux from the North Dakota Bakken Oil Energy Independents. (If Princeton can fit Sharam Fouladgar-Mercer and Grant Goeckner-Zoeller on jerseys, this will, too.)
Sharam Fouladgar-Mercer wore his first name on his jersey.
As did Dov Grumet-Morris' sister Aviva, I think. Also: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702303768104577462663474007608.html?mod=googlenews_wsj
A snippy feedback comment to the little WSJ blurb (above) about long names for European soccer players: "Expected from self important little people. Hard working Greeks emigrate, leaving the slugs. Great name for one of their players: ep??µ???? ???????"
(Drifting:) Not a good day for the WSJ in other ways: WSJ reporter resigns for sleeping with her State Department source (the infraction wasn't that, but not telling her bosses about it) and Journal blogger columnist Clint Boulton who claimed the new Macbook Pro was a threat to corporate networks becasue the higher resolution of the Retina display would "increase consumption" on corporate networks. After 800+ "WTF" feedback posts, the Journal retracted the story. http://blogs.wsj.com/cio/2012/06/11/cios-beware-new-macbook-pro-will-be-a-bandwidth-hog/tab/comments/
Quote from: billhowardDrifting
Ya think?
Quote from: BeeeejQuote from: billhowardDrifting
Ya think?
It took some effort not to mention that the same statewide vote that said it was okay to lay down the the Fighting Sioux jerseys also rejected an ambitious proposal to do away with state property taxes. One of the nice things about eLynah unlike Facebook the last couple months is that Facebook has become a sewer of anti-Obama, anti-Romney, anti-Wisconisn-governor posts. Less often thoughtful, self-created comments, more often forwarded memes / images that take up a lot of screen real estate. If you want to see people mindlessly doing the political and religous bidding of others and harrassing others, that's what the San Francisco airport has been for.
Quote from: billhowardQuote from: BeeeejQuote from: billhowardDrifting
Ya think?
It took some effort not to mention that the same statewide vote that said it was okay to lay down the the Fighting Sioux jerseys also rejected an ambitious proposal to do away with state property taxes. One of the nice things about eLynah unlike Facebook the last couple months is that Facebook has become a sewer of anti-Obama, anti-Romney, anti-Wisconisn-governor posts. Less often thoughtful, self-created comments, more often forwarded memes / images that take up a lot of screen real estate. If you want to see people mindlessly doing the political and religous bidding of others and harrassing others, that's what the San Francisco airport has been for.
One of the nice things about eLynah for me has been that the hockey forum is usually about hockey.
If this was on purpose, I will gain newfound respect for the NCAA's trolling skills. (http://www.grandforksherald.com/event/article/id/238690/)
Not all of the Fighting Sioux will be gone. (http://www.uscho.com/2012/09/27/ncaa-says-fighting-sioux-logos-can-stay-at-ralph-engelstad-arena/)
Quote from: Kyle RoseQuote from: Josh '99Chanting "smallpox blankets" at actual native americans is racist.
Drawing attention to race or a distinguishable property of a race as a means of mocking someone feels like racism to me, especially since the people chanting it are not thinking, "Let's make fun of those European descendants who murdered Native Americans with smallpox blankets!"
That said, I have a hard time caring if it's merely taunting: it's not like these people are being harassed by the police for driving while Native American. People need to lighten up and/or grow a thicker skin.
When Dwayne Wade steps to the line, who will be the first to chant "sickle cell anemia?
Via HOCKEY-L, a bizzare postscript (http://www.courthousenews.com/2013/05/31/58118.htm) to the saga, as some of the members of the relevant tribes who liked the nickname after all tried unsuccessfully to sue the NCAA (and presumably force UND) to get the name reinstated. But the article includes a piece of information which I at least did not have:
QuoteUND now uses the nickname Coyotes.
Were there any alternative nicknames that attached themselves, Deertick-style to UND during the Year With No Name? I tended to think of them as the Flickertails (their pre-Sioux nickname).
Quote from: jtwcornell91Via HOCKEY-L, a bizzare postscript (http://www.courthousenews.com/2013/05/31/58118.htm) to the saga, as some of the members of the relevant tribes who liked the nickname after all tried unsuccessfully to sue the NCAA (and presumably force UND) to get the name reinstated. But the article includes a piece of information which I at least did not have:
QuoteUND now uses the nickname Coyotes.
Were there any alternative nicknames that attached themselves, Deertick-style to UND during the Year With No Name? I tended to think of them as the Flickertails (their pre-Sioux nickname).
Seems to be contradicted by other sources (http://www.bakkentoday.com/event/article/id/238935/publisher_ID/40/):
QuoteThe legislation adopted in November, affirmed by state voters in Tuesday's primary election, requires UND to wait until 2015 to adopt a new nickname.
It's not a competent shakedown if you never get the money.
"I don't mind a parasite. I object to a cut-rate one."
Quote from: jtwcornell91Via HOCKEY-L, a bizzare postscript (http://www.courthousenews.com/2013/05/31/58118.htm) to the saga, as some of the members of the relevant tribes who liked the nickname after all tried unsuccessfully to sue the NCAA (and presumably force UND) to get the name reinstated. But the article includes a piece of information which I at least did not have:
QuoteUND now uses the nickname Coyotes.
Were there any alternative nicknames that attached themselves, Deertick-style to UND during the Year With No Name? I tended to think of them as the Flickertails (their pre-Sioux nickname).
That's likely a mistake, since we here at U of South Dakota are the Coyotes. Granted, mixing up North and South Dakota is kind of the pastime around here. But hard to imagine that they'd go for the same name as us.
Quote from: jtwcornell91Quote from: jtwcornell91Via HOCKEY-L, a bizzare postscript (http://www.courthousenews.com/2013/05/31/58118.htm) to the saga, as some of the members of the relevant tribes who liked the nickname after all tried unsuccessfully to sue the NCAA (and presumably force UND) to get the name reinstated. But the article includes a piece of information which I at least did not have:
QuoteUND now uses the nickname Coyotes.
Were there any alternative nicknames that attached themselves, Deertick-style to UND during the Year With No Name? I tended to think of them as the Flickertails (their pre-Sioux nickname).
Seems to be contradicted by other sources (http://www.bakkentoday.com/event/article/id/238935/publisher_ID/40/):
QuoteThe legislation adopted in November, affirmed by state voters in Tuesday's primary election, requires UND to wait until 2015 to adopt a new nickname.
From that source (http://www.bakkentoday.com/event/article/id/238935/publisher_ID/40/)
QuoteUND also must protect its copyright on the logo designed by North Dakota artist Ben Brien, a member of the Turtle Mountain Band of Chippewa Indians. Protection of the copyright is required by the 2007 settlement with the NCAA.
"You want to protect the integrity of your historical branding," Johnson said. "That would keep anyone from using it in ways we'd prefer it not be used."
Fear of wood screws?
UND releases potential nickname suggestions (http://www.wday.com/news/north-dakota/3737574-und-releases-potential-nickname-suggestions)
And soliciting input from the public went about as well as one could expect.
QuoteUND released Monday night 214 pages of nickname suggestions and their accompanying commentary submitted by the public.
The submissions to be considered can be viewed at HERE (http://www.grandforksherald.com/sites/default/files/consideration-list.pdf) and will be vetted by the university's Nickname Committee, which will use a point system to score attributes and functionality. UND also released a list of names that will not be considered. That list can be viewed here. (http://www.grandforksherald.com/sites/default/files/non-consideration-list.pdf) Warning: Several of the suggestions contain obscenities, racist terms or are otherwise offensive.
...
On the list of rejected names, the suggestion of "Fighting Sioux" proved a popular submission, with entries starting on page 32 and ends on page 160.
My vote goes to Abdominal Snowmen.
Quote from: DafatoneMy vote goes to Abdominal Snowmen.
Yeti, another rejected suggestion.
A no-win situation. Whatever they pick, half the people will be unhappy.
But the fact that they must have been required to release the list of submissions is a win-win for the rest of us. Some of them are hilarious. And even the childish obscene ones are worth a laugh or two.
Quote from: KeithKBut the fact that they must have been required to release the list of submissions is a win-win for the rest of us. Some of them are hilarious. And even the childish obscene ones are worth a laugh or two.
This is true. I roared at some of them.
"Fighting Sioux" nickname may [not] [may too] stick at N Dakota, but their coach won't be there to find out. (http://www.collegehockeynews.com/news/2015/05/18_hakstol_leaves_north_dakota.php)
Good. I hate UND and I hate the Flyers, so this is a natural progression.
And a blogger managed to find a list of all the domain names UND has registered after some initial brush-off attempts. There are a lot of "Warrior" permutations.
https://sayanythingblog.com/entry/heres-hundreds-of-domains-the-university-of-north-dakota-has-registered-for-nickname-transition/
Quote from: RichHThe submissions to be considered can be viewed at HERE (http://www.grandforksherald.com/sites/default/files/consideration-list.pdf)
tl;dr:
Cats: I like cats
Data Miners: Miners is obvious. data would make UND the first team with a computer connotation
Dragons of Ice
Epic Prairie Stars: Says our open prairie is like none other.
Ermines: No explanation needed. [I beg to differ]
Fighting Frackers [7 of these!]
Fighting Mongeese [I don't think the plural of mongoose is...]
Flaming Snow: North Dakota is known for its cold environment but in order to describe UND's passion for the game, the word "glowing" was added to "snow". [What?]
Flying Carp: Carp are an important species in the rivers of North Dakota.
Force of the Norse
Furious Flatlanders: North Dakota is horribly flat
Icy Flying Reptiles
Milos: That's my dogs name and he's fierce and passionate.
ProngBucks: a.k.a. Prong Horn, Spring Buck, indigenous to ND, fastest land animal in N. hemisphere, e.g. 55 mph for .5m [layin' down the science]
Sandbaggers: Honoring the historic '97 flood fighters, many of whom were UND students. 'Baggers for short. Unique, appropriate, rallying.
Sandbaggers: The river and it's cool
Snow Ice Devils: I think it's a unique nickname no other school has. It promotes fierceness. Representative to the state's region. Great rallying symbol.
Steamboat Captains: History of Grand Forks - being founded by a Steamboat Captain.
Superb Owls
Turbo: Turbo is fast, fast helps in sports.
White saber tooth tiger: It was a strong and fierce animal. It also fits with the region being cold. With it being white and black it would still match school colors
Zombies: We already have a green, black, and pink color scheme, and zombies are cool.
Quote from: RichHAnd a blogger managed to find a list of all the domain names UND has registered after some initial brush-off attempts. There are a lot of "Warrior" permutations.
https://sayanythingblog.com/entry/heres-hundreds-of-domains-the-university-of-north-dakota-has-registered-for-nickname-transition/
So glad to know North Dakota can afford to splurge on hundreds of domains they'll never use.
http://247wallst.com/energy-economy/2015/02/01/north-dakota-faces-massive-budget-shortfall-from-lower-crude-prices/
Of course I'm not stupid, I know their sports fans are footing the bill.
Buried on this page: http://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/2015/07/24/espn-says-cowherd-won-return-air/p9MKDmaV2lenG5WW2iqPiJ/story.html
QuoteSelecting a new nickname for the University of North Dakota has been so fraught with backlash that the school's president said he'd reconsider another option — none at all. A committee submitted a list of five potential nicknames earlier this week for UND President Robert Kelly to approve for a public vote, but didn't include the possibility of going forward as ''just North Dakota.'' The five potential nicknames are Roughriders, North Stars, Fighting Hawks, Nodaks, and Sundogs.
I'm in favor of "just North Dakota."
Quote from: RichHI'm in favor of "just North Dakota."
Uncomfortably close to "Oklahoma is Just OK."
Quote from: RichHBuried on this page: http://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/2015/07/24/espn-says-cowherd-won-return-air/p9MKDmaV2lenG5WW2iqPiJ/story.html
QuoteSelecting a new nickname for the University of North Dakota has been so fraught with backlash that the school's president said he'd reconsider another option — none at all. A committee submitted a list of five potential nicknames earlier this week for UND President Robert Kelly to approve for a public vote, but didn't include the possibility of going forward as ''just North Dakota.'' The five potential nicknames are Roughriders, North Stars, Fighting Hawks, Nodaks, and Sundogs.
I'm in favor of "just North Dakota."
Agreed. There's no reason they have to have a nickname.
Here's USCHO's take on the issue. (http://www.uscho.com/2015/07/27/north-dakota-committee-takes-away-option-for-school-to-continue-to-play-with-no-nickname/) Congrads if you can get past the first sentence.
And as I load it again, up pops an ad for a t shirt stating "DO NOT READ THE NEXT SENTENCE."
Quote from: Jim HylaHere's USCHO's take on the issue. (http://www.uscho.com/2015/07/27/north-dakota-committee-takes-away-option-for-school-to-continue-to-play-with-no-nickname/) Congrads if you can get past the first sentence.
And as I load it again, up pops an ad for a t shirt stating "DO NOT READ THE NEXT SENTENCE."
The emotional investment in no nickname there kinda reads like an Onion article.
Sometimes the women's team has a different nickname, like Fighting Wolverines and Supportive Wolverinesses. Here, it could be the Fighting Sues. I'm sure that has been suggested at some point when all suggestions were accepted for discussion.
It's no Harvard Sucks, but the thread has stayed lived for 3-1/2 years and is slowly closing in on 200 comments.
Quote from: billhowardIt's no Harvard Sucks, but the thread has stayed lived for 3-1/2 years and is slowly closing in on 200 comments.
Yeah, but imagine what eRalph is like.
Quote from: RichHQuote from: billhowardIt's no Harvard Sucks, but the thread has stayed lived for 3-1/2 years and is slowly closing in on 200 comments.
Yeah, but imagine what eRalph is like.
At least there is no derogatory term "eLynahing"
Oh God. Not another replace the unsatisfactory nickname with some variant on XXXX Hawks! Lehigh Mountain Hawks, Miami Red Hawks...enough with the hawks already!
Quote from: Jeff Hopkins '82Oh God. Not another replace the unsatisfactory nickname with some variant on XXXX Hawks! Lehigh Mountain Hawks, Miami Red Hawks...enough with the hawks already!
Let's not forget that most of the RPI teams are officially the RedHawks. Only a few teams kept "Engineers." And I just learned that the 1954 NCAA Champs were nicknamed "Bachelors." (http://archives.rpi.edu/blog/2009/04/03/the-mascot-with-a-short-life/)
UND could be the Bulldogs and join Yale, UMD and Ferris State in a tournament.
Quote from: RichHQuote from: Jeff Hopkins '82Oh God. Not another replace the unsatisfactory nickname with some variant on XXXX Hawks! Lehigh Mountain Hawks, Miami Red Hawks...enough with the hawks already!
Let's not forget that most of the RPI teams are officially the RedHawks. Only a few teams kept "Engineers." And I just learned that the 1954 NCAA Champs were nicknamed "Bachelors." (http://archives.rpi.edu/blog/2009/04/03/the-mascot-with-a-short-life/)
UND could be the Bulldogs and join Yale, UMD and Ferris State in a tournament.
Cornell fans had a laugh or two with their "Warm up the grill" chant when the Red Hawk used to frequent Houston Field House. Maybe we can take some of the credit for him flying away and hence Puckman getting the job.
Quote from: Jeff Hopkins '82Oh God. Not another replace the unsatisfactory nickname with some variant on XXXX Hawks! Lehigh Mountain Hawks, Miami Red Hawks...enough with the hawks already!
Sioux Hawks forever.
Quote from: RichHQuote from: Jeff Hopkins '82Oh God. Not another replace the unsatisfactory nickname with some variant on XXXX Hawks! Lehigh Mountain Hawks, Miami Red Hawks...enough with the hawks already!
Let's not forget that most of the RPI teams are officially the RedHawks. Only a few teams kept "Engineers." And I just learned that the 1954 NCAA Champs were nicknamed "Bachelors." (http://archives.rpi.edu/blog/2009/04/03/the-mascot-with-a-short-life/)
UND could be the Bulldogs and join Yale, UMD and Ferris State in a tournament.
As of 2009-10, RPI thankfully eliminated the Red Hawks as a nickname. As to Bachelors, I would love to see the PC complaints had we kept it. :)
Quote from: martyCornell fans had a laugh or two with their "Warm up the grill" chant when the Red Hawk used to frequent Houston Field House. Maybe we can take some of the credit for him flying away and hence Puckman getting the job.
A friend who went to Clarkson told me a story on how the RPI fans themselves led them in a chant of "KFC!" when the mascot appeared.
August 2015 update in the Wall Street Journal. http://www.wsj.com/articles/name-game-in-search-of-a-new-north-dakota-mascot-1439334225
Quote from: Melissa KornUniversity of North Dakota sports teams may soon be known as the Roughriders. Or the Nodaks. Or possibly the Fighting Hawks. One option that won't be considered: "North Dakota," unless the school president decides otherwise.
The institution, which retired its Fighting Sioux nickname in 2012 after opposition from American Indian groups and others sparked years of legal battles, had since adopted the state's name as its unofficial moniker for the sake of sports and school spirit. But a committee assigned to identify a new nickname for the school, which first met in March, voted recently by a margin of 7-4 to eliminate North Dakota as an option. Some argued that the state name didn't actually count as a nickname. ...
"Roughriders" sounds like people who don't use condoms.
I'd love to see them go with no nickname. It would stand out, and there'd be no better middle finger to the NC$$.
Voting for the new name starts Oct. 19. (http://www.uscho.com/2015/09/24/online-vote-for-new-north-dakota-nickname-to-take-place-oct-19-23/)
They are down to 2. (http://www.uscho.com/2015/11/08/north-dakota-nickname-runoff-vote-down-to-fighting-hawks-and-roughriders/)
God, not another "XXX Hawks" nickname.
Quote from: Jeff Hopkins '82God, not another "XXX Hawks" nickname.
It's lame, unoriginal, AND doesn't really shake native appropriation the way roughriders would.
Quote from: DafatoneQuote from: Jeff Hopkins '82God, not another "XXX Hawks" nickname.
It's lame, unoriginal, AND doesn't really shake native appropriation the way roughriders would.
And "Big Red" isn't lame.
Quote from: DafatoneQuote from: Jeff Hopkins '82God, not another "XXX Hawks" nickname.
It's lame, unoriginal, AND doesn't really shake native appropriation the way roughriders would.
My guess is that some of the people who voted for that did so because it contains the word "Fighting" and they plan to shout "SIOUX!" over the PA announcer when he/she says "Hawks".
Quote from: jtwcornell91Quote from: DafatoneQuote from: Jeff Hopkins '82God, not another "XXX Hawks" nickname.
It's lame, unoriginal, AND doesn't really shake native appropriation the way roughriders would.
My guess is that some of the people who voted for that did so because it contains the word "Fighting" and they plan to shout "SIOUX!" over the PA announcer when he/she says "Hawks".
Too bad they couldn't vote for simply "Fighting".
Quote from: KeithKQuote from: jtwcornell91Quote from: DafatoneQuote from: Jeff Hopkins '82God, not another "XXX Hawks" nickname.
It's lame, unoriginal, AND doesn't really shake native appropriation the way roughriders would.
My guess is that some of the people who voted for that did so because it contains the word "Fighting" and they plan to shout "SIOUX!" over the PA announcer when he/she says "Hawks".
Too bad they couldn't vote for simply "Fighting".
Could have always gone with Fighters, like the Nippon Ham baseball team.
Quote from: Jeff Hopkins '82Could have always gone with Fighters, like the Nippon Ham baseball team.
I always think of them as the Ham Fighters, as in they're really good at fighting pork.
Quote from: KeithKQuote from: Jeff Hopkins '82Could have always gone with Fighters, like the Nippon Ham baseball team.
I always think of them as the Ham Fighters, as in they're really good at fighting pork.
The North Dakota Ham Fighters.
Make it happen, Worst Dakota!
Quote from: DafatoneQuote from: KeithKQuote from: Jeff Hopkins '82Could have always gone with Fighters, like the Nippon Ham baseball team.
I always think of them as the Ham Fighters, as in they're really good at fighting pork.
The North Dakota Ham Fighters.
Make it happen, Worst Dakota!
That would be Wurst Dakota. ::banana::
In case anyone cares, it's the Fighting Hawks.
Quote from: jtwcornell91Quote from: DafatoneQuote from: Jeff Hopkins '82God, not another "XXX Hawks" nickname.
It's lame, unoriginal, AND doesn't really shake native appropriation the way roughriders would.
My guess is that some of the people who voted for that did so because it contains the word "Fighting" and they plan to shout "SIOUX!" over the PA announcer when he/she says "Hawks".
Not only this, but I bet there will be a big push to go back to the appropriated Chicago Blackhawks logo jerseys that they wore in the late 80s.
Quote from: ursusminorIn case anyone cares, it's the Fighting Hawks.
Feh!
Quote from: ursusminorIn case anyone cares, it's the Fighting Hawks.
I was surprised to see ESPN use the "Fighting Hawks" name in an on-screen graphic last night. Did the new nickname take effect immediately? I was assuming they'd wait until the fall instead of adopting the nickname in mid-season.
Quote from: jtwcornell91Quote from: ursusminorIn case anyone cares, it's the Fighting Hawks.
I was surprised to see ESPN use the "Fighting Hawks" name in an on-screen graphic last night. Did the new nickname take effect immediately? I was assuming they'd wait until the fall instead of adopting the nickname in mid-season.
I assume playing a nationally televised game accelerated the change, in light of the reason for the change.
Quote from: ugarteQuote from: jtwcornell91Quote from: ursusminorIn case anyone cares, it's the Fighting Hawks.
I was surprised to see ESPN use the "Fighting Hawks" name in an on-screen graphic last night. Did the new nickname take effect immediately? I was assuming they'd wait until the fall instead of adopting the nickname in mid-season.
I assume playing a nationally televised game accelerated the change, in light of the reason for the change.
I attended a game at the Ralph in January (excuse to check ND off my list). They were already using the new nickname but it was used sparingly by the PA announcer and without much emphasis. The crowd was using Sioux quite liberally and there were several "Sioux Forever!" chants in response to hearing the new nickname.
Quote from: KeithKQuote from: ugarteQuote from: jtwcornell91Quote from: ursusminorIn case anyone cares, it's the Fighting Hawks.
I was surprised to see ESPN use the "Fighting Hawks" name in an on-screen graphic last night. Did the new nickname take effect immediately? I was assuming they'd wait until the fall instead of adopting the nickname in mid-season.
I assume playing a nationally televised game accelerated the change, in light of the reason for the change.
I attended a game at the Ralph in January (excuse to check ND off my list). They were already using the new nickname but it was used sparingly by the PA announcer and without much emphasis. The crowd was using Sioux quite liberally and there were several "Sioux Forever!" chants in response to hearing the new nickname.
Plus, it's not like they're going to start confiscating the "Sioux" clothing at the door. This is going to linger for decades.
Quote from: BeeeejQuote from: KeithKQuote from: ugarteQuote from: jtwcornell91Quote from: ursusminorIn case anyone cares, it's the Fighting Hawks.
I was surprised to see ESPN use the "Fighting Hawks" name in an on-screen graphic last night. Did the new nickname take effect immediately? I was assuming they'd wait until the fall instead of adopting the nickname in mid-season.
I assume playing a nationally televised game accelerated the change, in light of the reason for the change.
I attended a game at the Ralph in January (excuse to check ND off my list). They were already using the new nickname but it was used sparingly by the PA announcer and without much emphasis. The crowd was using Sioux quite liberally and there were several "Sioux Forever!" chants in response to hearing the new nickname.
Plus, it's not like they're going to start confiscating the "Sioux" clothing at the door. This is going to linger for decades.
My guess is long enough to be reinstated.
It's a fucking cool logo and nickname.
Quote from: TrotskyQuote from: BeeeejQuote from: KeithKQuote from: ugarteQuote from: jtwcornell91Quote from: ursusminorIn case anyone cares, it's the Fighting Hawks.
I was surprised to see ESPN use the "Fighting Hawks" name in an on-screen graphic last night. Did the new nickname take effect immediately? I was assuming they'd wait until the fall instead of adopting the nickname in mid-season.
I assume playing a nationally televised game accelerated the change, in light of the reason for the change.
I attended a game at the Ralph in January (excuse to check ND off my list). They were already using the new nickname but it was used sparingly by the PA announcer and without much emphasis. The crowd was using Sioux quite liberally and there were several "Sioux Forever!" chants in response to hearing the new nickname.
Plus, it's not like they're going to start confiscating the "Sioux" clothing at the door. This is going to linger for decades.
My guess is long enough to be reinstated.
It's a fucking cool logo and nickname.
That cool logo has not been removed from the tiling in the hallways of the Ralph. They'd just about have to redo the entire flooring to do so - each logo is about ten feet across.
Quote from: KeithKThat cool logo has not been removed from the tiling in the hallways of the Ralph. They'd just about have to redo the entire flooring to do so - each logo is about ten feet across.
This was deliberate, IINM. At least they don't have a swastika (http://deadspin.com/5256436/deadspin-classic-north-dakotas-nazi-loving-alumni-donor) at center ice.
Quote from: TrotskyQuote from: KeithKThat cool logo has not been removed from the tiling in the hallways of the Ralph. They'd just about have to redo the entire flooring to do so - each logo is about ten feet across.
This was deliberate, IINM. At least they don't have a swastika (http://deadspin.com/5256436/deadspin-classic-north-dakotas-nazi-loving-alumni-donor) at center ice.
I believe you're right. Englestadt wanted to do everything he could to make sure the logo stayed. It looks damn good though.
Quote from: jtwcornell91Quote from: ursusminorIn case anyone cares, it's the Fighting Hawks.
I was surprised to see ESPN use the "Fighting Hawks" name in an on-screen graphic last night. Did the new nickname take effect immediately? I was assuming they'd wait until the fall instead of adopting the nickname in mid-season.
Picture the scene of hundreds of North Dakota fans spilling out of the arena after an exhilerating semifinal win, all chanting "SIOUX FOR-EV-ER!!"
The group of 3 ND fans sitting behind me had running commentary through most of the game last night, mostly wryly shouting "Let's Go Hawks!" or "Let's Go Siou....Hawks!"
I did see a noticeable number of ND fans wearing the "North Dakota" jerseys, which kind of look weirdly empty without a number in the middle of the circle the letters form. I wonder how many of them do like the dropping of the Fighting Sioux nickname (there must be some). At the same time, I wonder how many have all their old Sioux paraphenalia in a hermetically-sealed container for eternal preservation.
wtf just happened
Quote from: CU2007wtf just happened
Gotta give the spammer credit. Went for 50 threads. And the screenname lists the data he/she registered.
Quote from: French RageQuote from: CU2007wtf just happened
Gotta give the spammer credit. Went for 50 threads. And the screenname lists the data he/she registered.
As these things go, yes, golf clap.
Quote from: TrotskyQuote from: French RageQuote from: CU2007wtf just happened
Gotta give the spammer credit. Went for 50 threads. And the screenname lists the data he/she registered.
As these things go, yes, golf clap.
Or a dose of the clap.::nospam::