ELynah Forum

General Category => Hockey => Topic started by: Trotsky on November 28, 2008, 08:00:56 PM

Title: Cornell 3 North Dakota 7
Post by: Trotsky on November 28, 2008, 08:00:56 PM
1 02:43 Cor Jillson 1 (M. Kennedy 1, Seminoff 3)
1 03:55 NoDak Frattin 3 (Genoway 9, Trupp 3)
1 06:28 Cor Greening 3 (Barlow 3, R. Nash 2)
1 17:08 NoDak pp Martens 3 (Frattin 3, Trupp 4)
2 06:07 NoDak pp Duncan 5 (Miller 6, Fienhage 1)
3 00:51 NoDak Genoway 1 (VandeVelde 6)
3 04:47 Cor R. Nash 3 (B. Nash 1, Krueger 1)
3 07:17 NoDak Frattin 4 (Gregoire 3)
3 15:01 NoDak Gregoire 5 (Trupp 5)
3 18:56 NoDak pp Frattin 5 (Genoway 10, Trupp 6)

A heaping helping of Fail.
Title: Re: Cornell 0 North Dakota 0 (pregame)
Post by: ebilmes on November 28, 2008, 08:05:35 PM
Ridiculous country-style hockey songs on the Sioux feed.

This one is "Good Ol' Hockey Game" with lots of yee-haws.
Title: Re: Cornell 0 North Dakota 0 (pregame)
Post by: ebilmes on November 28, 2008, 08:35:08 PM
Weekend preview on the Sioux Sports blog.

QuoteKey Players: Junior F Colin Greening (2-3-5), Sophomore F Riley Nash (2-1-3), Sophomore D Jordan Berk (1-1-2), Junior G Ben Scrivens (4-0-2, 0.81 GAA, .971 SV, 2 SO)

::screwy::

http://blog.siouxsports.com/2008/11/28/weekend-preview-und-vs-cornell/
Title: Re: Cornell 0 North Dakota 0 (pregame)
Post by: Trotsky on November 28, 2008, 08:43:14 PM
Michael Kennedy has the game's first real chance.  Press early and often, lads.

JILLSON!!!!!!!!!!!!
Title: Re: Cornell 1 North Dakota 0 (first)
Post by: ebilmes on November 28, 2008, 08:44:43 PM
Good time for Jillson's first career goal.
Title: Re: Cornell 0 North Dakota 0 (1st)
Post by: ebilmes on November 28, 2008, 08:46:22 PM
Quick NoDak goal at 3:55. Mike Devin just lets the guy skate past him.
Title: Re: Cornell 0 North Dakota 0 (pregame)
Post by: amerks127 on November 28, 2008, 08:47:26 PM
Hello out there we're on the air it's hockey night tonight

Tension grows the whistle blows and the puck goes down the ice.

The goalie jumps and the players bump and the fans all go insane

Someone roars "Jillson scores!" at the good ole hockey game.
Title: Re: Cornell 2 North Dakota 1 (pregame)
Post by: DeltaOne81 on November 28, 2008, 08:50:07 PM
That was one of the prettier Cornell goals I've seen in a while.
Title: Cornell 2 NoDak 1
Post by: ebilmes on November 28, 2008, 08:50:36 PM
Greening goal at 6:28.

Three quick goals to start off this game that was supposed to be between two teams who can't score.
Title: Re: Cornell 2 NoDak 1
Post by: Trotsky on November 28, 2008, 08:59:12 PM
Jason says Mugford will be back around Christmas.
Title: Re: Cornell 2 North Dakota 1 (1st)
Post by: jy3 on November 28, 2008, 09:05:05 PM
hmm any1 know what package gets u nhlhd on direct tv? dtv cant tell me...

and lgr!
Title: Re: Cornell 2 North Dakota 1 (pregame)
Post by: Rita on November 28, 2008, 09:08:12 PM
[quote DeltaOne81]That was one of the prettier Cornell goals I've seen in a while.[/quote]

Ditto. Greening's goal was sweeeeeeet. Riley Nash did a great job hanging on to the puck and getting the pass to Barlow. Wow his arms are long.
Title: Re: Cornell 2 North Dakota 1 (1st)
Post by: Rita on November 28, 2008, 09:13:45 PM
[quote jy3]hmm any1 know what package gets u nhlhd on direct tv? dtv cant tell me...

and lgr![/quote]

If you have DTV's NHL center ice package, you also get the NHL network on channel 215.
Title: Re: Cornell 2 North Dakota 1 (pregame)
Post by: ebilmes on November 28, 2008, 09:14:23 PM
Shots 13-11 CU in the first.

Team looks decent for a road game on the big ice. Devin seemed to be at fault for the first goal, just let the NoDak player skate past him and get off a good shot next to the goal.

Four goals in the first period. Not what anyone was predicting.
Title: Re: Cornell 2 North Dakota 1 (pregame)
Post by: andyw2100 on November 28, 2008, 09:21:17 PM
[quote ebilmes]Shots 13-11 CU in the first.

Team looks decent for a road game on the big ice. [/quote]

It's not big ice. Same size sheet as Lynah.
Title: Re: Cornell 2 North Dakota 2 (end 1st)
Post by: Rita on November 28, 2008, 09:25:50 PM
The Sioux announcers (at least the ones doing the game on the NHLN) seem to be quite complimentary of Cornell and our defensive game. How long has it been since anyone has described the Cornell forwards as big?

Am I the only one who thinks of our small, speedy, passing centers (Kyle Knopp, Ryan Smart and of course Topher)? We have had lots of physical players and a few "big" guys, but describing the all of the forwards as "big", just caught me off guard. Maybe it just sounded different coming from people not really affiliated with Cornell.

I thought that was a good first period; heck 13 shots, most of them good ones. And we won most of the face-offs, 18-10.
Title: Re: Cornell 2 North Dakota 1 (pregame)
Post by: Jim Hyla on November 28, 2008, 09:26:49 PM
[quote ebilmes] Devin seemed to be at fault for the first goal, just let the NoDak player skate past him and get off a good shot next to the goal.[/quote]

Yes, and he didn't do a stick check on ND. They should never have gotten that shot off.
Title: Re: Cornell 2 North Dakota 2 (end 1st)
Post by: Trotsky on November 28, 2008, 09:27:46 PM
[quote Rita]Am I the only one who thinks of our small, speedy, passing centers (Kyle Knopp, Ryan Smart and of course Topher)? We have had lots of physical players and a few "big" guys, but describing the all of the forwards as "big", just caught me off guard.[/quote]I think it's just you. ;-)

To be honest, I think of all our players as big.  And slow.  So this year is a big change in my mind.
Title: Re: Cornell 2 North Dakota 2 (end 1st)
Post by: Omie on November 28, 2008, 09:29:22 PM
Great period. We just need Scrivens to step it up a little bit more and we could have a solid chance.
Title: Re: Cornell 2 North Dakota 2 (end 1st)
Post by: Trotsky on November 28, 2008, 09:33:20 PM
[quote Omie]Great period. We just need Scrivens to step it up a little bit more and we could have a solid chance.[/quote]We're #12 and they're #24.  We ought to be right in there.

Sioux pp #2 upcoming.
Title: Re: Cornell 2 North Dakota 2 (end 1st)
Post by: Cornell11 on November 28, 2008, 09:33:54 PM
Scrivens has laid eggs in some of our highest-profile matchups. Better step it up for the rest of this game
Title: Re: Cornell 2 North Dakota 2 (end 1st)
Post by: Trotsky on November 28, 2008, 09:35:23 PM
[quote Cornell11]Scrivens has laid eggs in some of our highest-profile matchups.[/quote]I count once, against BU at MSG, and that was a total team effort.
Title: Re: Cornell 2 North Dakota 2 (end 1st)
Post by: Rita on November 28, 2008, 09:38:57 PM
Wow, Taylor Davenport was lucky to only get 2 min.

B. Nash in for 2 minutes (holding). 5x3 for ~ 1:30 min.
Title: Re: Cornell 2 North Dakota 2 (end 1st)
Post by: Omie on November 28, 2008, 09:39:30 PM
WOW. Talk about a total failure in the PK. Horrible time to take penalties.
Title: Re: Cornell 2 North Dakota 2 (2nd)
Post by: CM cWo 44 on November 28, 2008, 09:40:45 PM
Why can't Scrivens move across the crease... he had plenty of time to spread his pad.
Title: Re: Cornell 2 North Dakota 3 (2nd)
Post by: Trotsky on November 28, 2008, 09:46:29 PM
Note to self: don't give NoDak a 5x3.
Title: Re: Cornell 2 North Dakota 1 (pregame)
Post by: jy3 on November 28, 2008, 09:46:55 PM
[quote Rita][quote DeltaOne81]That was one of the prettier Cornell goals I've seen in a while.[/quote]

Ditto. Greening's goal was sweeeeeeet. Riley Nash did a great job hanging on to the puck and getting the pass to Barlow. Wow his arms are long.[/quote]

figured. that stinks :(


come on red!
Title: Re: Cornell 2 North Dakota 3 (2nd)
Post by: Trotsky on November 28, 2008, 09:48:58 PM
Cornell pp coming up.
Title: Re: Cornell 2 North Dakota 3 (2nd)
Post by: Trotsky on November 28, 2008, 09:50:41 PM
[quote Trotsky]Cornell pp coming up.[/quote]But nullified by a call on Riley.
Title: Re: Cornell 2 North Dakota 3 (2nd)
Post by: Trotsky on November 28, 2008, 09:56:33 PM
Well, Cornell just had a nice stretch of play and is going on pp.  LGR!
Title: Re: Cornell 2 North Dakota 3 (2nd)
Post by: Rita on November 28, 2008, 09:59:37 PM
[quote Trotsky]Well, Cornell just had a nice stretch of play and is going on pp.  LGR![/quote]

They had some great chances, but unfortunately, nothing on the scoreboard to show for it.

LGR!
Title: Re: Cornell 2 North Dakota 3 (end 2nd)
Post by: Omie on November 28, 2008, 10:04:58 PM
Very cool announcers from the Sioux Sports Network when talking to Greening. "We have been very impressed by the Big Red."
Title: Re: Cornell 2 North Dakota 3 (end 2nd)
Post by: CUontheslopes on November 28, 2008, 10:19:03 PM
Brendan Nash is simply awful - terrible turnover leads to an easy UND goal
Title: Re: Cornell 2 North Dakota 4 (3rd)
Post by: CM cWo 44 on November 28, 2008, 10:20:16 PM
Sieviens is really embarassing himself. Only 1 goal shouldn't have been saved.
Title: Re: Cornell 2 North Dakota 4 (3rd)
Post by: CUontheslopes on November 28, 2008, 10:21:24 PM
B. Nash was the problem with that goal my God...awful
Title: Re: Cornell 2 North Dakota 4 (3rd)
Post by: CM cWo 44 on November 28, 2008, 10:23:50 PM
B. Nash was pretty key on that goal too
Title: Re: Cornell 2 North Dakota 4 (3rd)
Post by: Omie on November 28, 2008, 10:24:11 PM
RILEY by himself!
Title: Re: Cornell 2 North Dakota 4 (3rd)
Post by: Rita on November 28, 2008, 10:24:13 PM
Riley Nash brings us back within a goal.

Nice feed, nicer finish.

LGR!
Title: Re: Cornell 3 North Dakota 4 (3rd)
Post by: Trotsky on November 28, 2008, 10:25:08 PM
Brendan to Riley -- an all-Nash goal.

Now Patrick K. nearly ties it.
Title: Re: Cornell 3 North Dakota 4 (3rd)
Post by: Rita on November 28, 2008, 10:27:01 PM
Shoot. 1 step forward, 2 steps back.

UND scores on Scrivens short side.
Title: Re: Cornell 3 North Dakota 4 (3rd)
Post by: CM cWo 44 on November 28, 2008, 10:27:07 PM
Another softie... Garman in
Title: Re: Cornell 3 North Dakota 4 (3rd)
Post by: Rita on November 28, 2008, 10:29:04 PM
[quote CM cWo 44]Another softie... Garman in[/quote]

I was thinking Garman for Saturday, but it seems like it wasn't Scrivens night and Schafer had seen enough.

Now if we could all chip in and buy the Kennedy line a couple of goals. They have come so close tonight.
Title: Re: Cornell 3 North Dakota 4 (3rd)
Post by: Cornell11 on November 28, 2008, 10:29:08 PM
absolutely pathetic performance by scrivens
Title: Re: Cornell 3 North Dakota 4 (3rd)
Post by: Omie on November 28, 2008, 10:29:42 PM
Scrivens can be great at times but he simply should not be allowed to play on Thanksgiving break.
Title: Re: Cornell 3 North Dakota 4 (3rd)
Post by: Rita on November 28, 2008, 10:30:57 PM
[quote Omie]Scrivens can be great at times but he simply should not be allowed to play on Thanksgiving break.[/quote]

Hypersensitive to the effects of trpytophan and turkey?
Title: Re: Cornell 3 North Dakota 4 (3rd)
Post by: Trotsky on November 28, 2008, 10:30:58 PM
[quote Omie]Scrivens can be great at times but he simply should not be allowed to play on Thanksgiving break.[/quote]Fair enough.
Title: Re: Cornell 3 North Dakota 4 (3rd)
Post by: CM cWo 44 on November 28, 2008, 10:31:43 PM
[quote Cornell11]absolutely pathetic performance by scrivens[/quote]

Agreed. I am not trying to be hard on him, but he is still all over the place. Usually his ends justify his means, but that "all over the place" is not where the puck was tonight.

I am not confident in him.
Title: Re: Cornell 2 North Dakota 2 (end 1st)
Post by: ebilmes on November 28, 2008, 10:33:27 PM
Once again the team gets embarrassed in a big game on national television. Glad I didn't spend hundreds of dollars to head out there to see them stink up the Ralph tonight. Hope we get our shit together for tomorrow night.
Title: Re: Cornell 3 North Dakota 5 (3rd)
Post by: Trotsky on November 28, 2008, 10:34:05 PM
I don't have video and so don't know if they were softies, but it would be nice if I hadn't heard Jason mention giveaways right in front of the CU net by every Cornell defenseman tonight.
Title: Re: Cornell 3 North Dakota 4 (3rd)
Post by: CM cWo 44 on November 28, 2008, 10:34:37 PM
I think they are showing something with their offense and resiliency. This game would be neck-and-neck with some better goaltending.

Also glad I'm not there.
Title: Re: Cornell 3 North Dakota 5 (3rd)
Post by: ebilmes on November 28, 2008, 10:35:23 PM
[quote Trotsky]I don't have video and so don't know if they were softies, but it would be nice if I hadn't heard Jason mention giveaways right in front of the CU net by every Cornell defenseman tonight.[/quote]

At least two goals were directly caused by defensive lapses. Mike Devin has been awful all night.
Title: Re: Cornell 3 North Dakota 5 (3rd)
Post by: CM cWo 44 on November 28, 2008, 10:38:12 PM
Another awful performance by the defense... nobody took the man. Garman made 2 nice saves, but couldn't stop the third.

Under review.
Title: Re: Cornell 3 North Dakota 5 (3rd)
Post by: Rita on November 28, 2008, 10:38:27 PM
Sloppy play in our defensive zone bites us. Now 6-3.
Title: Re: Cornell 3 North Dakota 5 (3rd)
Post by: CM cWo 44 on November 28, 2008, 10:38:42 PM
No high stick. Goal. 6-3 NoDak
Title: Re: Cornell 3 North Dakota 6 (3rd)
Post by: Omie on November 28, 2008, 10:39:29 PM
Deja vu?

Cornell loosing 6-3 against struggling team on a nationally televised game.
Title: Re: Cornell 3 North Dakota 5 (3rd)
Post by: Rita on November 28, 2008, 10:39:55 PM
$120 (6 x $20) in gift certificates have been given away to help stimulate the economy in Grand Forks.
Title: Re: Cornell 3 North Dakota 5 (3rd)
Post by: ebilmes on November 28, 2008, 10:40:39 PM
We've more than doubled out GA for the season.

Embarrassing.
Title: Re: Cornell 3 North Dakota 6 (3rd)
Post by: CM cWo 44 on November 28, 2008, 10:40:47 PM
[quote Omie]Deja vu?

Cornell loosing 6-3 against struggling team on a nationally televised game.[/quote]

A little different feel to this game, though same result. Pretty even throughout until these lapses in the third. BU was out of reach from the beginning.
Title: Re: Cornell 3 North Dakota 5 (3rd)
Post by: Trotsky on November 28, 2008, 10:43:42 PM
[quote Rita]$120 (6 x $20) in gift certificates have been given away to help stimulate the economy in Grand Forks.[/quote]Don't laugh.  That's half their GSP.
Title: Re: Cornell 3 North Dakota 7 (3rd)
Post by: Omie on November 28, 2008, 10:45:43 PM
Ok this is getting pathetic now.
Title: Re: Cornell 3 North Dakota 5 (3rd)
Post by: CM cWo 44 on November 28, 2008, 10:47:12 PM
Can't wait for the NoDak pregame show tomorrow to hear about how they struggle scoring goals and are facing the premier defensive team in college hockey.
Title: Re: Cornell 3 North Dakota 7 (3rd)
Post by: Rita on November 28, 2008, 10:47:19 PM
[quote Trotsky][quote Rita]$120 (6 x $20) $140 in gift certificates have been given away to help stimulate the economy in Grand Forks.[/quote]Don't laugh.  That's half their GSP.[/quote]

Now a little more than half.
Title: Re: Cornell 3 North Dakota 5 (3rd)
Post by: Rita on November 28, 2008, 10:48:39 PM
[quote CM cWo 44]Can't wait for the NoDak pregame show tomorrow to hear about how they struggle scoring goals and are facing the premier defensive team in college hockey.[/quote]

No need to wait, they have brought it up in the post-game comments.
Title: Re: Cornell 3 North Dakota 7 (end of game)
Post by: Omie on November 28, 2008, 10:52:37 PM
Horrible performance by the Red. Only the Greening and R. Nash lines showed up to play and showd great hustle. But there was no defense, no goaltending, and untimely penalties. ND had 4 5x5 goals, which they had not been able to do since early Nov. I'm just really p***ed off right now.

Other teams were tested tonight and they showed up; Princeton beat NU and AF is destroying CC. Cornell not so much.
Title: EZAC
Post by: ebilmes on November 28, 2008, 10:54:12 PM
EZAC.

A NoDak team struggling offensively puts up SEVEN FUCKING GOALS against us tonight?

Major step back for the season. Can't wait to head back to that conference schedule.
Title: Re: EZAC
Post by: Cornell11 on November 28, 2008, 11:17:19 PM
freaking pathetic. nice job scrivens. save face and win tomorrow

i thought ND couldnt score??
Title: Re: Cornell 3 North Dakota 6 (3rd)
Post by: Goon on November 29, 2008, 01:24:47 AM
[quote Omie]Deja vu?

Cornell loosing 6-3 against struggling team on a nationally televised game.[/quote]

I would say that UND is probably not as bad as their record.
Title: Re: Cornell 3 North Dakota 6 (3rd)
Post by: Rosey on November 29, 2008, 08:44:45 AM
[quote Goon]I would say that UND is probably not as bad as their record.[/quote]
I will repeat my comments stretching back for years re: the ECAC.  Why this loyalty among Cornell fans to a mediocre conference?  Vermont had the right idea, and it's high time the few teams in the ECAC with a prayer of being nationally-competitive bolt for greener pastures, or at least slash the in-conference schedule to get more games against real teams.  I mean, it's nice to beat up on the kiddies year-in and year-out, but where's the sport in it?
Title: Re: Cornell 3 North Dakota 6 (3rd)
Post by: Jim Hyla on November 29, 2008, 10:38:00 AM
[quote Kyle Rose][quote Goon]I would say that UND is probably not as bad as their record.[/quote]
I will repeat my comments stretching back for years re: the ECAC.  Why this loyalty among Cornell fans to a mediocre conference?  Vermont had the right idea, and it's high time the few teams in the ECAC with a prayer of being nationally-competitive bolt for greener pastures, or at least slash the in-conference schedule to get more games against real teams.  I mean, it's nice to beat up on the kiddies year-in and year-out, but where's the sport in it?[/quote]

So, you think that if we just jump into Hockey East we are suddenly going to be able to compete with all the scholarship schools? I don't know where that comes from. As hockey ,and pretty soon lacrosse, becomes more national, the scholarship schools will start draining off more and more talent. That leaves us with less and less. This happened with football, then basketball, baseball, and more and more woman's sports. Syracuse just started women's hockey and took SLU's coach. Watch and see what happens to those two programs over the next 10 years.

No, our best hope is to stay in a conference that at least has some of the ideals that we have; then we can compete and, as I've said before, we can be in the NCAAs often enough that we can hope. Glory years are over, and jumping conferences won't make the difference.
Title: Re: Cornell 3 North Dakota 6 (3rd)
Post by: Rosey on November 29, 2008, 11:00:35 AM
[quote Jim Hyla]So, you think that if we just jump into Hockey East we are suddenly going to be able to compete with all the scholarship schools? I don't know where that comes from.[/quote]
At this point, I think the competition gap is a bigger one than the talent gap.  When a skilled team plays scrubs all the time, it's going to become very good at beating scrubs.
QuoteNo, our best hope is to stay in a conference that at least has some of the ideals that we have; then we can compete and, as I've said before, we can be in the NCAAs often enough that we can hope.
...and so that Cornell hockey can eventually be as irrelevant as Cornell football.  Yaay!  Sign me up!  (Even if Cornell were to be the undisputed Ivy football champ for 10 years in a row, I still wouldn't give a shit.)

FWIW, I haven't seen the competition in the ECAC actually get worse over the past several years, but it isn't improving, either (overall: let's see if Princeton will continue its winning ways).  Eventually, that will take its toll.  Once the ECAC truly becomes a second-tier conference, those of you who love Ivy League football can finally have your hockey equivalent.
QuoteGlory years are over,
Bull.  Cornell has gotten past the first round of the NCAA tournament four times in the past decade, and gotten to the Frozen Four once, with another 2nd round loss in 2006 that could just as easily (well, maybe the wrong word for such an epic game) have been a win.

You may have given up hope, but I haven't: college hockey is never going to be the huge business that college football and basketball are.  That, if nothing else, will keep non-scholarship schools committed to their hockey programs nationally competitive until they (are forced to) stop charging tuition entirely.  That day is really less than two decades off, so don't abandon all hope yet.

Kyle
Title: Re: Cornell 3 North Dakota 6 (3rd)
Post by: Jim Hyla on November 29, 2008, 11:40:15 AM
[quote Kyle Rose][quote Jim Hyla]So, you think that if we just jump into Hockey East we are suddenly going to be able to compete with all the scholarship schools? I don't know where that comes from.[/quote]
At this point, I think the competition gap is a bigger one than the talent gap.  When a skilled team plays scrubs all the time, it's going to become very good at beating scrubs.[/q]But we've not been very good at it, lately.
Quote[q]No, our best hope is to stay in a conference that at least has some of the ideals that we have; then we can compete and, as I've said before, we can be in the NCAAs often enough that we can hope.
...and so that Cornell hockey can eventually be as irrelevant as Cornell football.  Yaay!  Sign me up!  (Even if Cornell were to be the undisputed Ivy football champ for 10 years in a row, I still wouldn't give a shit.)

FWIW, I haven't seen the competition in the ECAC actually get worse over the past several years, but it isn't improving, either (overall: let's see if Princeton will continue its winning ways).  Eventually, that will take its toll.  Once the ECAC truly becomes a second-tier conference, those of you who love Ivy League football can finally have your hockey equivalent.[/q] So you still haven't addressed how we'll compete with scholarship schools. We may have trouble with H,Y, & P with their tuition policies.
Quote[q]Glory years are over,
Bull.  Cornell has gotten past the first round of the NCAA tournament four times in the past decade, and gotten to the Frozen Four once, with another 2nd round loss in 2006 that could just as easily (well, maybe the wrong word for such an epic game) have been a win.

You may have given up hope, but I haven't: college hockey is never going to be the huge business that college football and basketball are.  That, if nothing else, will keep non-scholarship schools committed to their hockey programs nationally competitive until they (are forced to) stop charging tuition entirely.  That day is really less than two decades off, so don't abandon all hope yet.

Kyle[/quote]So CU is eventually going to stop charging tuition?
Title: Re: Cornell 3 North Dakota 6 (3rd)
Post by: Rosey on November 29, 2008, 12:05:48 PM
[quote Jim Hyla]So CU is eventually going to stop charging tuition?[/quote]
It's going to have to: the schools you mentioned (among others) will eventually stop charging tuition, and Cornell is going to have to do the same to have a prayer of competing for top students and student athletes.  I'm not sure how they're going to do it, given how badly out-of-favor Cornell's financial numbers are compared to the other Ivy League schools... but I trust they'll figure something out. ;-)
Title: Re: Cornell 3 North Dakota 6 (3rd)
Post by: Omie on November 29, 2008, 12:11:21 PM
They have already virtually adopted Harvard's under $60K income policy by eliminating loans and family contributions in that packet and just leaving summer savings. It will take longer but the school is aware its financial aid needs to keep par with the rest. They also increased the financial aid goal of the capital campaign by a couple hundred million.
Title: Re: Cornell 3 North Dakota 6 (3rd)
Post by: ugarte on November 29, 2008, 12:14:00 PM
[quote Kyle Rose][quote Jim Hyla]So CU is eventually going to stop charging tuition?[/quote]
It's going to have to: the schools you mentioned (among others) will eventually stop charging tuition, and Cornell is going to have to do the same to have a prayer of competing for top students and student athletes.  I'm not sure how they're going to do it, given how badly out-of-favor Cornell's financial numbers are compared to the other Ivy League schools... but I trust they'll figure something out. ;-)[/quote]
I don't think that Cornell - or Harvard for that matter - is about to give up tuition entirely. I do think that Cornell is better situated than a lot of the Ivy League to compete with scholarship schools because of the deep recruiting roots in Canada.

I've always gotten the impression that while hockey is a bit of a rich kids sport in the parts of the country that Cornell stands a chance of recruiting (ie, not WCHA turf), in Canada that isn't as much the case. So even though we can't give Canadian kids "hockey scholarships," the players we recruit are of modest means and can be given preferential admission and need-based aid, which is tantamount to an athletic scholarship. It is also easier for Cornell to give preferential admission than H-Y-P.

I do know that I have no interest in leaving a conference in which all of our historical rivals play just to toughen up the schedule.
Title: Cornell 3 North Dakota 6
Post by: Trotsky on November 29, 2008, 12:18:03 PM
[quote Jim Hyla]So, you think that if we just jump into Hockey East we are suddenly going to be able to compete with all the scholarship schools? I don't know where that comes from. As hockey ,and pretty soon lacrosse, becomes more national, the scholarship schools will start draining off more and more talent. That leaves us with less and less. This happened with football, then basketball, baseball, and more and more woman's sports. Syracuse just started women's hockey and took SLU's coach. Watch and see what happens to those two programs over the next 10 years.

No, our best hope is to stay in a conference that at least has some of the ideals that we have; then we can compete and, as I've said before, we can be in the NCAAs often enough that we can hope. Glory years are over, and jumping conferences won't make the difference.[/quote]Or the Ivies could rethink their scholarship model, and that's already happening.


The Ivy League, and most of us who went through it, are still caught worshiping the 19th Century ideal of the "gentleman athlete."  Its genesis wasn't even particularly related to a preference for academics over athletics -- it was just another bar to the Great Unwashed, a prole tax.

As has been said, all of the Ivies will eventually have to eliminate the financial burden on high-demand low and even middle class applicants, or lose them.  The economic motives of a first line center are no different from those of a first chair cellist.
Title: Re: Cornell 3 North Dakota 6 (3rd)
Post by: Jim Hyla on November 29, 2008, 12:40:03 PM
[quote Trotsky][quote Jim Hyla]So, you think that if we just jump into Hockey East we are suddenly going to be able to compete with all the scholarship schools? I don't know where that comes from. As hockey ,and pretty soon lacrosse, becomes more national, the scholarship schools will start draining off more and more talent. That leaves us with less and less. This happened with football, then basketball, baseball, and more and more woman's sports. Syracuse just started women's hockey and took SLU's coach. Watch and see what happens to those two programs over the next 10 years.

No, our best hope is to stay in a conference that at least has some of the ideals that we have; then we can compete and, as I've said before, we can be in the NCAAs often enough that we can hope. Glory years are over, and jumping conferences won't make the difference.[/quote]Or the Ivies could rethink their scholarship model, and that's already happening.


The Ivy League, and most of us who went through it, are still caught worshiping the 19th Century ideal of the "gentleman athlete."  Its genesis wasn't even particularly related to a preference for academics over athletics -- it was just a bar to the Great Unwashed.

As has been said, all of the Ivies will eventually have to eliminate the financial burden on low and even middle class applicants, or lose them.  The economic motives of a first line center are no different from those of a first chair cellist.[/quote]

I don't think that will happen. (I was going to say in my lifetime, but I don't want to die that early.) :) Being a relatively small private school, compared to the big state schools, makes it very expensive. I see how Syracuse is trying to handle their athletic budget and it sickens me. Coaches making more that the chancellor and dropping sports to balance everything. People, including alumni, giving to athletics and not to the academics seems wrong.

To my way of thinking, having a very diverse program is more important than being successful in a few major sports. I guess that means I'm fully committed to the Ivy approach.

My fun on football days is watching a competitive game with friends. Being on the national stage is not needed. Now if we could just be competitive.

I love hockey, but wouldn't trade everything else that is good about the Ivies just to win in it.
Title: Re: EZAC
Post by: Chris '03 on November 29, 2008, 04:28:20 PM
[quote ebilmes]EZAC.

A NoDak team struggling offensively puts up SEVEN FUCKING GOALS against us tonight?
[/quote]

They could have locked it down, played conservatively, and lost 4-2. Instead they took a ton of chances late and lost 7-3. I'm not hung up on the number. It's a loss. I thought the team looked considerably better losing 7-3 last night than at MSG last year.

I hope they do a better job dictating play tonight, avoiding the mental mistakes, and not getting into an up and down game that is hardly the team's strong suit (I suspect H will have better luck in that style if they run with the Sioux next week).

Goals for tonight should be to play within the system, not make stupid mistakes, and not get drawn into any stupid penalties, especially if it gets out of hand in either direction. While NCAA seeding and at large bids are great to speculate about in November (with 75% of the season to come), I'd rather have a full roster skating for four points next week.
Title: Re: Cornell 3 North Dakota 6 (3rd)
Post by: jtwcornell91 on November 29, 2008, 06:20:53 PM
[quote Kyle Rose]slash the in-conference schedule[/quote]

The ECAC already only plays two games against each conference opponent, as opposed to the three and four games that show up in other leagues' (often unbalanced) schedules.
Title: Cornell 3 North Dakota 6
Post by: Trotsky on November 29, 2008, 06:25:35 PM
[quote Jim Hyla]I love hockey, but wouldn't trade everything else that is good about the Ivies just to win in it.[/quote]I think, as Bill Clinton used to say, that's a false choice.  Aid and entry requirements are separate compartments.  We can offer scholarships to athletes without compromising academics.  To a large extent, we already do.  If you paired a Patchogue applicant and a Nanaimo applicant with identical GPA, SATs, and family assets, I have little doubt the latter gets a better aid package.
Title: Re: Cornell 3 North Dakota 6 (3rd)
Post by: Rosey on November 29, 2008, 08:00:42 PM
Jim:

I don't want to get into a whole "thing" about this, so I'll just sum up briefly.  I'm talking about eventualities, not necessarily what I want.  The fact is that our peer institutions will no longer be our peers if they stop charging tuition and we don't.  And the likelihood of Harvard going all free at some point is very high considering right now they could increase their endowment disbursement rate by 0.25%/year and stop charging tuition entirely.  And they should if they can, because they, unlike a normal business, have a mission to educate.  If they can best accomplish that by making their education free, and they are able to do that, then they should do that.  At that point, Cornell (and Brown and Penn to a lesser extent) need to make changes to be able to compete, or the Ivy League will become extremely lopsided as an athletic conference.  E.g., it may be that Cornell will finally reduce enrollment to 1970's levels at that point, which I think would be good all around.  But who knows: I am not a strategic planner for Cornell. :-)

Greg:

I actually think the Ivy League should retain its distinction among competitive schools as not having second-class citizens on campus.  Of course, a better way to do this than impoverishing families making more than $60,000 would be to give everyone a free ride.  I'm not saying it's going to be easy, but I do think it's inevitable for any top school that can do it.