Pretty interesting for those who like to discuss ECAC officiating...this was posted over at USCHO forums. It contains a letter sent to Steve Hagwell, and forwarded to Paul Stewart by an anonymous fan and referee (he doesn't mention a league or level) about his observations of the RPI at Harvard game back in December, and Stewart's interesting response.
This is directly quoted, and all grammatical issues can be be blamed on the fan/referee and Stewart ;)
[quote Anonymous Fan]
Good Morning Steve,
Last Tuesday night I was at the RPI/Harvard Game at RPI. I am writing you because I believe that I saw you in attendance. My question is: Has the "new" standard of play gone back to the old standard of play for college hockey? I know about three or four years ago, the ECAC/NCAA was the first league to adapt the "new" standard of play emphasis. Since then the NHL, NIHOA/Federation (High School), and USA Hockey/Hockey Canada have all adapted this "new" standard of play initiative. After watching many Division I and Division III hockey games in the northeast, I felt it was helping the game by making it a faster and more all around talented game on the use of abilities. However, after attending last weeks RPI game, it now has me wondering if the "new" style has gone back to the old way.
Dan Murphy was the referee that was on the game and he let a lot of penalties go on both teams. Also, his penalty calling was very inconsistent. What he called on Harvard, he didn't call on RPI and what he called on RPI, he didn't call on Harvard. In this game there were only 7 penalties called and their probably could have been at least 10 more on both teams. I feel that if he would have set the tone in the first period, it would have been a great game of two nationally ranked teams, both in the ECACHL, playing each other through their abilities instead of seeing stick work, clutching, and grabbing (obstruction) in the middle of the ice.
I went to the game as an impartial fan. I am a local Ice Hockey Official in the Albany, NY, area and have been officiating for over ten years. I realize that all of the leagues that I mentioned above about the "new" standard of play are not link together in any way as far as rule books are concerned. After talking with other officials that are refereeing Division III, they have not heard of a change in the standard of play. I am just curious if Division I has changed.
Thank you in advance for your time and I hope to hear back from you. [/quote]
[quote Paul Stewart]
I was forwarded your e-mail ...it was interesting to read that you are an Official of Hockey and actually enjoyed the games as they were officiated in the past few years....the new policy for Officials at this high level of Hockey is to call a penalty when the RESULTS of the infraction cause a change of possession, a loss of scoring chance, interrupt the flow of skating or put players at risk for their safety....the games are being Officiated by men who in the past few years have not had a lot of coaching, been left to their own discretion on what is and is not a penalty and been told to pretty well call anything that looked like a hook or a hold when the results left real Hockey people scratching their heads trying to figure out where the penalty occurred...Having Officiated at all levels and done so for a long time, I have learned many things, two which I shall share with you...1 ) don't follow the lead of the NHL...putting your arm up in Sept and taking it down in May... Great Officiating is about skating, seeing, feeling and reacting....2 ) Never put yourself in a spot to lay claim to the BROTHERHOOD of OFFICIATING and then stand in the shadows and toss criticisms that someday may be tossed at you....Tryouts for ECAC Officiating are initiated by your sending a resume, a physical from your physician and a schedule so that we can watch you work, references from the various League personnel for whom you work are also necessary....if you can make it to this roster, I will welcome your excellence...
By the way, I was at the game with the Commissioner. I was more concerned with the linesman and his not covering on what appeared to be a legitimate RPI goal...I am sure that as an Official, you noted the poor positioning from the linesman and the lack of teamwork that I addressed between the first and second periods and the subsequent improvement....Happy Holidays...I await you resume....
Paul Stewart
Director of Officiating
ECAC Hockey [/quote]
Link to the post and discussion:
http://board.uscho.com/showthread.php?t=73796&page=7
I give Stewart points for going a couple lines before falling into the predictable defensiveness. I know some ECAC administrators have been worse than others, but when was the last time any answered a fair, if critical, question without exhibiting thinly-veiled contempt for the person asking?
[quote Jacob 03]I give Stewart points for going a couple lines before falling into the predictable defensiveness. I know some ECAC administrators have been worse than others, but when was the last time any answered a fair, if critical, question without exhibiting thinly-veiled contempt for the person asking?[/quote]I think that was probably the most straight and honest answer to any question by any ECAC staff member in the last 20 years. It's a big step up from the mismanagement of the officials we saw last year -- but I expected that: Stewart was a very high caliber talent for the league to land.
[quote Trotsky]I think that was probably the most straight and honest answer to any question by any ECAC staff member in the last 20 years. [/quote]I don't doubt you're right, Greg. Maybe it says something about the position that even the best person taking it (or ECAC commish) immediately conforms to protect mode and cannot help speaking in meaningless phrases ("Great Officiating is about skating, seeing, feeling[!] and reacting") and calls for the rest of us to know how tough it is.
BOTH of these emails have horrific mistakes in them. Can you find them all?! A prize to the winner!
[quote LaJollaRed]BOTH of these emails have horrific mistakes in them. Can you find them all?! A prize to the winner![/quote]I was Quite amused by the Strange choices Of capitalization used in paul Stewart's emaiL.
Sounds to me like an extremely defensive response to an insightful question.
Kyle
[quote Josh '99][quote LaJollaRed]BOTH of these emails have horrific mistakes in them. Can you find them all?! A prize to the winner![/quote]I was Quite amused by the Strange choices Of capitalization used in paul Stewart's emaiL.[/quote]
Mr. Stewart is also an ellipsis fanboy ;)
[quote krose]Sounds to me like an extremely defensive response to an insightful question.[/quote]
To agree with you that it's an insightful question, especially given that it was from an active official, I would've wanted more concrete examples of non-calls. A general impression of inconsistency doesn't mean much.
Completely tangent to the discussion, I found this bit hilarious:
QuoteI feel that if he would have set the tone in the first period, it would have been a great game of two nationally ranked teams
Bwahahaahahaha!
[quote Beeeej][quote krose]Sounds to me like an extremely defensive response to an insightful question.[/quote]
To agree with you that it's an insightful question, especially given that it was from an active official, I would've wanted more concrete examples of non-calls. A general impression of inconsistency doesn't mean much.[/quote]
That could have been the response Stewart gave. Instead he said "Well, if you're such a great official why don't you stop reffing pee-wee league games and come to a tryout, complainer!"
[quote ugarte]That could have been the response Stewart gave. Instead he said "Well, if you're such a great official why don't you stop reffing pee-wee league games and come to a tryout, complainer!"[/quote]
Agreed. Again. Yikes, the rapture.
Kyle
[quote ugarte]That could have been the response Stewart gave. Instead he said "Well, if you're such a great official why don't you stop reffing pee-wee league games and come to a tryout, complainer!"[/quote]Loved that part. Entirely in keeping with the way Stewart was as a player.
That "brotherhood of officiating" bullshit sounds like standard union "wall of silence" tactics. If Stewart is really interested in improving hockey officiating, the last things he should do are attack valid criticism and oppose transparency. Even re-reading the response again after reading this entire thread leaves me with a very clear "what a prick" reaction.
Kyle
[quote ugarte][quote Beeeej][quote krose]Sounds to me like an extremely defensive response to an insightful question.[/quote]
To agree with you that it's an insightful question, especially given that it was from an active official, I would've wanted more concrete examples of non-calls. A general impression of inconsistency doesn't mean much.[/quote]
That could have been the response Stewart gave. Instead he said "Well, if you're such a great official why don't you stop reffing pee-wee league games and come to a tryout, complainer!"[/quote]
I don't disagree about the defensiveness of the response - just about the insightfulness of the question. Stewart's response makes him look like quite the prick indeed.
[quote KeithK]Completely tangent to the discussion, I found this bit hilarious:
QuoteI feel that if he would have set the tone in the first period, it would have been a great game of two nationally ranked teams
Bwahahaahahaha![/quote]
Well 44th (as in RPI's RPI) is after all a ranking. ;-)
Oh no, anonymous fan... the horror of a game not decided by powerplays
That said, the one game I've seen this year - i.e. this past Saturday - the reffing was very loose and let a ton of things go. Doesn't mean the original questioner's letter made his sound very good, but it doesn't mean he was wrong either.
Since I've been watching a fair deal of the NHL lately, the difference was very very noticeable. All sorts of hooking or grabbing or interference that was not called, on both teams. I'd say the first 5 minutes could have had 5 penalties called each way - instead there were none.
What happens when you don't call these sort of things? Well, they get worse because the players know they can get away with them. So at some point you have to start calling *something*, and it almost invariably ends up being less severe than number of things you ignored before. Leading to confusion and frustration on behalf of the players when they get penalized for something less than what happened to them minutes before. And the ref loses control of the game. Doesn't help when the goal judge misses a goal either ;)
[quote Cactus12]Oh no, anonymous fan... the horror of a game not decided by powerplays[/quote]
Cute... but sorry, I don't buy that. You don't want your games decided by power plays? Stop committing penalties.
[quote Cactus12]Oh no, anonymous fan... the horror of a game not decided by powerplays[/quote]A game can be decided by who gets away with a hook or a hold or a slash just as easily as by who gets called for one.
If I may, Murphy in particular has seemed especially inconsistent this year. Anyone at the Union game can attest to Lynah's reaction (one of the Union players poked Scrivens in the facemask with his stick in clear view of Murphy with no call, to name one). Even within the bounds of individual discretion, the way this particular referee calls games is almost negligent.
If it is actually a hook or a hold or a slash... but I agree- it's obviously a balance, and I think that ECAC officiating has been reasonable over the past few years regarding calls/non-calls. My comment was more directed towards the NHL. (I think this letter-writer may be basing his opinion at least in part on the pro situation)
[quote polar]If I may, Murphy in particular has seemed especially inconsistent this year. Anyone at the Union game can attest to Lynah's reaction (one of the Union players poked Scrivens in the facemask with his stick in clear view of Murphy with no call, to name one). Even within the bounds of individual discretion, the way this particular referee calls games is almost negligent.[/quote]
Which one...Dan or John?
[quote sah67][quote polar]If I may, Murphy in particular has seemed especially inconsistent this year. Anyone at the Union game can attest to Lynah's reaction (one of the Union players poked Scrivens in the facemask with his stick in clear view of Murphy with no call, to name one). Even within the bounds of individual discretion, the way this particular referee calls games is almost negligent.[/quote]
Which one...Dan or John?[/quote]
It shouldn't be John...I think he's probably been the best ref in the league.
Or neither:
Andy O'Brien reffed Union @ Cornell
http://collegehockeystats.net/0708/boxes/mcoruni1.f15
Derek Wahl reffed Cornell @ Union:
http://collegehockeystats.net/0708/boxes/mcoruni1.j12
Leave poor Murphy(s) alone! ;)
Actually it was both for the Union @ Cornell game. John Murphy was working as the second referee(there were 2 that night) and Dan was one of the assistants.
Actually that was Cornell @ Colgate. John Murphy and Mike Baker both did the SLU game @ Cornell.