During an Elmira Jackals' (UHL) game, one of their players was awarded a penalty shot while Elmira was killing a penalty. My question: would this be considered a short-handed goal? The Elmira Star Gazette reported it as a short-handed goal. They are hardly an authority on anything hockey. The UHL box score recorded it as a short-handed goal. http://pointstreak.com/framed/prostats/gamesheet_full.html?gameid=340217 This makes no sense to me!
They really were no more "short-handed" than any other penalty shot situation.
It should be recorded as a 1x1 goal. :-P
Maybe the logic is that the scoring chance that set up the penalty shot was achieved while short-handed?
[quote jtwcornell91]Maybe the logic is that the scoring chance that set up the penalty shot was achieved while short-handed?[/quote]
Sure.
The reason the penalty shot was awarded was because the attacker was breaking in alone on goal with a very high probability of scoring during a shorthanded situation. The penalty shot is to replicate the situation, while precluding a reoccurrence of the infraction that caused the disruption of the short-handed breakaway. [Geez (Bill Howard's word), that's an awkward sentence.]
Think of it as crediting the team's penalty-kill for creating a situation that would likely have led to a goal if not for the penalty (the player still had to convert on the penalty shot, just as he would have had to convert on the breakaway). Likewise, the team on the power-play is debited for giving up a clear breakaway on the PP, and the goalie is given the same chance to stop it during the penalty shot as he would have had on the breakaway. It's recreating the scenario of a player going in alone on a short-handed breakaway.
Why would this inevitably, or even reasonably, result in a penalty shot being recorded as a "short handed goal"? Think of the converse -- Cornell is on powerplay, the Harvard goalie throws his stick to block the puck, Cornell scores on the ensuing penalty shot. Is that a "power play goal"?
I can't find anything in the rules which indicates that the official scoring of a penalty shot can ever be anything other than just "penalty shot."
[Q]Why would this inevitably, or even reasonably, result in a penalty shot being recorded as a "short handed goal"?[/Q]Like jtw said, maybe it's a short handed goal because the team was "officially" short handed.[Q] Think of the converse -- Cornell is on powerplay, the Harvard goalie throws his stick to block the puck, Cornell scores on the ensuing penalty shot. Is that a "power play goal"[/Q]I'd buy that.
If it's a power play goal in that it recreates the circumstances of the power play situation, then why doesn't it take the penalty off the board?
[quote Jim Hyla][Q] Think of the converse -- Cornell is on powerplay, the Harvard goalie throws his stick to block the puck, Cornell scores on the ensuing penalty shot. Is that a "power play goal"[/Q]I'd buy that.[/quote]
But it shouldn't be a PPG. If it counts as a PPG, then the skater in the box will be released if the penalty shot results in a goal, thus ending the penalty. The rulebook says that the shorthanded team will return a player to the ice after the opposition scores *unless* the goal is scored on a penalty shot. No penalty may expire as the result of a penalty shot.
My understanding is that the penalty shot replaces a minor penalty. In the rulebook, it says that coaches have the option of accepting a minor penalty instead of taking the penalty shot. It also says that if the team which is going to be awarded the penalty shot scores before play stops, then no penalty shot will be awarded. In other words, it's just like a delayed penalty call.
Since penalty shots seem to be a special case of a minor penalty, I think they are scored separately from normal PPGs and SHGs. They can't qualify as PPGs, otherwise you'd occasionally see 2 PPGs on the same minor. I doubt they qualify as SHGs, either - if the coach opts for a minor instead of a penalty shot, and his team scores 4x4, they clearly don't get a SHG. Seems simplest just to score them separately as penalty shot goals, and not worry about PPG and SHG designations. After all, nobody else is on the ice, right?
I'm not going to dig it up in the rulebook, but it's in there somewhere. It is, in fact a SHG. If there were a delayed call on a powerplay and a goal was scored, I'm pretty sure the man in the box would not release. There would be no additional 2 minute penalty to follow, but I'm thinking it would be a power play goal, and yes, I think it could theoretically be possible to get 2 PP goals on one chance. However, a breakaway while on a powerplay is pretty much never, ever going to happen. But as for the SHG penalty shot, I know that's correct, and I've seen it several times before.
[quote CowbellGuy]However, a breakaway while on a powerplay is pretty much never, ever going to happen.[/quote]
But a defenseman covering the puck in the crease during the other team's powerplay might.
[quote CowbellGuy]I'm not going to dig it up in the rulebook, but it's in there somewhere. It is, in fact a SHG. If there were a delayed call on a powerplay and a goal was scored, I'm pretty sure the man in the box would not release. There would be no additional 2 minute penalty to follow, but I'm thinking it would be a power play goal, and yes, I think it could theoretically be possible to get 2 PP goals on one chance. However, a breakaway while on a powerplay is pretty much never, ever going to happen. But as for the SHG penalty shot, I know that's correct, and I've seen it several times before.[/quote]
Huh. I couldn't find that in the rulebook, so I was assuming based on the rest of the penalty shot rules that it wouldn't be counted as SHG/PPG. But now that I think about it I believe you're right about the delayed penalty call (not releasing, that is - don't know if that's scored as a PPG or not), and the penalty shot could be effectively an extension of that rule. So it makes some logical sense, too.
The clarification of this rule is similar to the one in the Wayne State post-game thread about he order of letting people out of the box. A penalty shot is in fact a two-minute penalty, only your "power play" comes in the form of a 1v1 with the goalie.
Example - Saturday, Wayne State's penalty shot, Taylor Davenport was credited with two minutes for tripping, but he never stepped foot in the box. A goal on the penalty shot would in essence be an unofficial power play goal. Hence, if someone's in the box during a penalty shot goal, they stay because the p-shot ends, in this case, the Davenport penalty.
[quote bandrews37]The clarification of this rule is similar to the one in the Wayne State post-game thread about he order of letting people out of the box. A penalty shot is in fact a two-minute penalty, only your "power play" comes in the form of a 1v1 with the goalie.
Example - Saturday, Wayne State's penalty shot, Taylor Davenport was credited with two minutes for tripping, but he never stepped foot in the box. A goal on the penalty shot would in essence be an unofficial power play goal. Hence, if someone's in the box during a penalty shot goal, they stay because the p-shot ends, in this case, the Davenport penalty.[/quote]Except that I don't believe it's called a PP goal unless they are already on the PP. That is, it's not a PP goal if the teams are even at the time of the penalty shot.