Cornell lacrosse 2022

billhoward

Ken711
5 Ivy schools in the top 10.

Becoming the quintessential Ivy League sport along with crew and (horse) polo.

NCAA rowing, a women's sport only, is mostly dominated by the big state schools these days. (I think the Ivies do a bit better on the men's side.) There are only like 3 Ivy schools that play polo.

mike1960

billhoward
No surprise, the first loss cost Cornell 3 spots in the D1 media poll for March 28. Maryland remains #1. Three of the four top 20 teams are also in the basketball final four: UNC, Duke, Villanova. (St. Peter's has no varsity lax team.)

Media poll 3/28/22
1.  Maryland
2.  Virginia +1 positions (didn't take them long to bounce back from their loss) 
3.  Georgetown +2
4.  Penn +2
5.  Rutgers +2
6.  Princeton -4 (lost to Yale)
7.  Cornell -3
8.  Yale +6  
9.  North Carolina  --
10. Harvard +5  Gave BU its first loss, beat Dartmouth (1 win above .500), the one unranked Ivy team
16. Duke 
19. Villanova 
Also got votes: Brown et al
Also didn't get votes (so why was the Cornell game so close?): Penn State 

Cornell should be favored in the rest of the games this year until (and perhaps even then) the final game against Princeton. So we may not win them all, but we should have a decent record for a bid to the tournament.

Syracuse is the one I really want the team to win. It's a tough task: They play on a Monday with a rest of only two days after playing a very good Harvard team.

It would be nice, but how long has it been since Cornell beat Syracuse?

Ken711
It would be nice, but how long has it been since Cornell beat Syracuse?

First round of 2018 tournament.

(LMGTFY)

Weder
NCAA rowing, a women's sport only, is mostly dominated by the big state schools these days. (I think the Ivies do a bit better on the men's side.) There are only like 3 Ivy schools that play polo.

Polo because it's a non-NCAA sport, few spectators, may not be on administration radars, and brings less glory to Cornell. Polo titles in 1992 and 2005 don't make us feel that we've evened out the losses 2003 to UNH (hockey) and 2009 to Syracuse (lacrosse). It would count as a plus on your admissions profile if you really excelled at polo. Also, if you play polo, odds are your family isn't asking for financial aid and could be active in the parents' fund.

Polo has the feel of being an elite sport, which concept some schools are increasingly loathe to support. When Stanford and Brown dropped a bunch of sports circa 2020 (Stanford restored them, Brown some), I believe there was an argument that some not all of the sports were elite / suburban / white.

Greenberg '97

Ken711
It would be nice, but how long has it been since Cornell beat Syracuse?

First round of 2018 tournament.

(LMGTFY)

Thanks, I forgot about that tournament win!

mike1960
Cornell should be favored in the rest of the games this year until (and perhaps even then) the final game against Princeton. So we may not win them all, but we should have a decent record for a bid to the tournament.

Lucky for Cornell we don't have a game at Clarkson this year.

I do like that while Piatelli was overshadowed by CJ Kirst early on, when Kirst got more defensive coverage–a little what happened to Jeff Teat after freshman year–Piatelli picked up speed. After seven games:

15 CJ Kirst       22G  11A  33Pts
41 John Piatelli  22G   5A  27Pts 

billhoward
Also, if you play polo, odds are your family isn't asking for financial aid and could be active in the parents' fund.
Polo has the feel of being an elite sport, which concept some schools are increasingly loathe to support

There’s at least one notable exception, Shariah Harris ‘20. I think that she was once highlighted on 60 Minutes or another newsmagazine show.
.

I came to the Colgate broadcast late today. Did they say anything about Aiden Blake's injury?

Cornell leads Colgate 8-4 at the half. Kirst with 4.

mike1960
I came to the Colgate broadcast late today. Did they say anything about Aiden Blake's injury?

Didn’t hear anything, but it’s Colgate’s broadcast on ESPN+.

mike1960
I came to the Colgate broadcast late today. Did they say anything about Aiden Blake's injury?

I heard 2nd hand that Buczek discussed with Barry Leonard about other guys needing to step up, and there was no indication that Blake would be back anytime soon.

Thanks. But also: "exception" as in "proves the rule."

Ugarte? Trotsky? can always find a (one) frat boy who isn't an A-Hole.

Against a 2-5 Colgate team, it feels as anything less than a 2-1 score ratio is "meh." 15-8 with 10:00 to play.

Cornell looks good most every game on clears. In a heartbeat, I'd trade that for faceoffs. 'cuz when you're scoop the ball, you've already got it at midfield.

The stadium looks a lot like Cornell's: snow banks ... red end zone coloring with the end line for lax invisible to TV viewers ... bottom half of the stadium (what you see) has a Schoellkopf look.

Good game overall. The offense was efficient most of the time and sometimes looked pretty great when they found the open guys in the face of the goal. It was an opportunity to players to work together with first and second line midfields in the absence of Blake. Upward and onward!

mike1960
Good game overall. The offense was efficient most of the time and sometimes looked pretty great when they found the open guys in the face of the goal. It was an opportunity to players to work together with first and second line midfields in the absence of Blake. Upward and onward!

Yes, but still having trouble on ground balls, which we must improve against stronger competition.

scoop85

mike1960
Good game overall. The offense was efficient most of the time and sometimes looked pretty great when they found the open guys in the face of the goal. It was an opportunity to players to work together with first and second line midfields in the absence of Blake. Upward and onward!

Yes, but still having trouble on ground balls, which we must improve against stronger competition.

Watching Petrakis, I had the impression he won the majority of clamps, but when the ball rolled or bounced at a distance he wasn’t quick enough to get to it first. Also, the most effective way to get a ground ball is to run though the ball while scooping it up, but there was too much raking and other slowness to the ball. Finally, Colgate wings seemed to see or know where the ball was, whereas Cornell wings were looking for it. OTOH, when Colgate won possession on the FO, Cornell’s defense often put on a hard ride, causing the ball to turnover.

Not getting much from the middies with Blake and Lombardi out. Doesn't bode well.

Al DeFlorio
Not getting much from the middies with Blake and Lombardi out. Doesn't bode well.

Agreed. Now they’ll have a few days of practice to see who among guys like Wirtheim, Holmes, Sheehan, and Dalton might step up. Wirtheim seems to be getting more comfortable at midfield and I think he’ll get lots of minutes. Holmes played with some verve yesterday in his first action, and scored a goal. Dalton, who apparently had been injured, finally got on the field and he’s a big body who was well regarded coming out of high school in Canada.

Cornell 7-1 at Dartmouth 4-3, the one Ivy League team unlikely to make the NCAA tournament. 1 pm game then Harvard at home next Saturday and at Syracuse Monday night.

WHCU is not carrying the game right now.

7:02 in the 1st Period
Dartmouth 3 Cornell 1

Shots 11-3 Dartmouth; saves 3-0 Dartmouth: dreadful start.

Al DeFlorio
Shots 11-3 Dartmouth; saves 3-0 Dartmouth: dreadful start.

None of the shortcomings we’ve seen of late seem to be improved, and Ierlan is off to a slow start to make things wors.

Al DeFlorio
Shots 11-3 Dartmouth; saves 3-0 Dartmouth: dreadful start.

Don't forget, only 1 for 5 on face-offs so far.

4-1 Dartmouth in the 1st. Losing face-offs is killing the team so far.

Ken711

Al DeFlorio
Shots 11-3 Dartmouth; saves 3-0 Dartmouth: dreadful start.

Don't forget, only 1 for 5 on face-offs so far.

Now 1 for 7. I’m flabbergasted that we’re at this point.

Faceoffs are just bad right now. Dartmouth has made great passes to score. Credit to them so far on the offense.

The Dartmouth goalie is not seeing them right now.

Cornell closes trailing 4-3 still in the 1st.

Ken711
Cornell closes trailing 4-3 still in the 1st.

We’re getting plenty of good looks when we have the ball. The problem is the lack of possessions resulting from the abysmal faceoff situation.

scoop85

Ken711
Cornell closes trailing 4-3 still in the 1st.

We’re getting plenty of good looks when we have the ball. The problem is the lack of possessions resulting from the abysmal faceoff situation.

A couple of bad passes/turnovers didn't help. But Cornell will have a run or two in this game.

I really dislike this tactic of killing the last minute of a period to get the last shot. It too often turns out to be rushed or results in a turnover, as just happened. Play your offense. If a good shot materializes, take it.

Ground balls 16-4 Dartmouth!

Al DeFlorio
Ground balls 16-4 Dartmouth!

!!! Time for some ground ball drills.

Man-down defense has been outstanding for Cornell.

Al DeFlorio
Ground balls 16-4 Dartmouth!

Davis seems to be our only guy who can secure a ground ball.

5-5 game now, Cornell 3 for 11 on face-offs.

Late in the second period the Dartmouth goalie is seeing everything.

The film student who is working the camera will show this game next week to his class and explain the influences of Lars Von Trier and his use of negative space.

Much better 2nd quarter, but Hincks has made some point blank saves. And we even won a couple of faceoffs!

Dartmouth has put only 7 of 25 shots on goal, thankfully. Cornell 10 of 13.

We look lost on the man-up offense.

mike1960
We look lost on the man-up offense.

On offense, period.

I like how the defense is getting physical with the cutter. They didn't do that enough with Penn.

Harvard put up 19 against these guys. We're stuck atv5.

I love the drive down the alley. I know a lot of people think it's predictable but it puts a lot of stress on the defense. The ball will draw a double and so someone should be open somewhere. If it doesn't, the ballcarrier will have a decent shot, as Coyle did there.

mike1960
I love the drive down the alley. I know a lot of people think it's predictable but it puts a lot of stress on the defense. The ball will draw a double and so someone should be open somewhere. If it doesn't, the ballcarrier will have a decent shot, as Coyle did there.

Agree. And somehow take advantage of the double.

Gavin Adler is a beast.

mike1960
Gavin Adler is a beast.

A fantastic player. Davis is having a terrific game too.

Nice to have this thread to avoid the childish banter right now on our Fanlax thread.

Can't pick up a ground ball. Now a fumbled clear. If somehow we pull this out , it will be... I don't know what. Another shot clock lost possession.

Missing by inches on our shots.

Missing the cage.

Wasting possessions with ill-advised passes.

Princeton, meanwhile, buried Brown in Providence.

The loss of Aiden Blake was very apparent today. The offense ran out of ideas on a lot of possessions. It certainly missed Blake's cannon from outside. They'll need to figure something out for Harvard and then Syracuse. We also need to shoot better. As the old saying goes, if you don't shoot it in the square, it won't go in.

The defense played just great. Beautiful slides and recoveries all day. The Dartmouth ballcarriers saw hard double-teams anytime they had a notion to move toward the goal.

Enough has been said about the FOGO position. I'll just leave it there. On second thought, I will add that Petrakis came up huge at the end of the game. Great job there!

Are any of the important injured players expected back this season?

Credit also the Dartmouth goalie-by stats the top Goalie in the Ivies. He made some incredible stops and the Dartmouth defense was not allowing too much interior passing. Yes the Red to miss Blake and Lombardi but one must readapt and thinking the 2nd midfield line is showing some progress with Wolf, Wirtheim, and Sheehan (Good to see two Central New Yorkers). Adler is incredible.

Ken711
5-5 game now, Cornell 3 for 11 on face-offs.

This was the last time the score or FO stats were mentioned. I couldn’t even tell who won. Lax eLF is maddening in this regard — we’ll never will be accused of giving out too much detail to those casual thread-readers. (Except for when billhoward does his good recaps.)

Final score was 8-7 Cornell, and CU ended the day 11 for 18 on faceoffs according to the Athletics write-up.

I didn't read the Athletics writeup but the box score reports Cornell won 7 of 18 faceoffs and Dartmouth was 11 of 18.

dag14
I didn't read the Athletics writeup but the box score reports Cornell won 7 of 18 faceoffs and Dartmouth was 11 of 18.

This is correct. At one point D had won 7 of 8.

Yale 12-11 over Penn in OT. Home teams have won every Ivy game between C, P, Pr and Y. Only one left is C at Pr in Tigertown. Y and Pr have the advantage of two of three at home.

Looking WAY ahead ...

If the Ivy Fantastic Four (C,Y,Pr,Pe) wins every remaining game against the Sidekicks (H,B,D), as Massey predicts, then it all comes down to Cornell @ Princeton.

If the Big Red takes that (after, in this scenario, beating Harvard and Brown), then Cornell and Yale are tied at the top of the Ivy standings at 5-1, and Cornell holds the tiebreaker! The Ivy seedings are C,Y,Pr,Pe.

But if the Tigers win, then Yale stands alone at 5-1, with C,Pe,Pr all at 4-2. Then, since C will have lost to both Pe and Pr, the seedings are Y,Pr,Pe,C.

CU77
Looking WAY ahead ...

If the Ivy Fantastic Four (C,Y,Pr,Pe) wins every remaining game against the Sidekicks (H,B,D), as Massey predicts, then it all comes down to Cornell @ Princeton.

If the Big Red takes that (after, in this scenario, beating Harvard and Brown), then Cornell and Yale are tied at the top of the Ivy standings at 5-1, and Cornell holds the tiebreaker! The Ivy seedings are C,Y,Pr,Pe.

But if the Tigers win, then Yale stands alone at 5-1, with C,Pe,Pr all at 4-2. Then, since C will have lost to both Pe and Pr, the seedings are Y,Pr,Pe,C.

As the saying goes, every dog has his day, but that seems especially true this year in the Ivies. I would not be that surprised to see any Ivy team beat another going forward.

Instead of working today, I was thinking about Cornell's offense, and I would like to see them also spread the offense out a little bit and send a cutter or successive cutters in front of the goal. Right now, they run a little bit of a box offense. They like to pass around and squeeze the defense down to have a shorter shot from outside that might be screened by all the bodies in front. But this style also clogs the middle and makes it difficult to find an open cutter. When they tried hitting the cutter against Darthmouth after compressing the defense, there was just not enough space to fit it in. This might have been most evident in the man-up offense. The defense was packed in and we had a difficult time finding a good shot.

mike1960
... I was thinking about Cornell's offense, and I would like to see them also spread the offense out a little bit and send a cutter or successive cutters in front of the goal. Right now, they run a little bit of a box offense. They like to pass around and squeeze the defense down to have a shorter shot from outside that might be screened by all the bodies in front. But this style also clogs the middle and makes it difficult to find an open cutter. When they tried hitting the cutter against Darthmouth after compressing the defense, there was just not enough space to fit it in. This might have been most evident in the man-up offense. The defense was packed in and we had a difficult time finding a good shot.

The current coaching wisdom is the top attackmen—Piatelli 30G, Kirst 29G (no other player > 14)—will get their goals regardless (probably) ... and if the other team's defense compresses, midfielders can shoot from closer range although into a more closely packed defense?

It seems as if Cornell's two biggest challenges remain team depth and faceoffs.

Faceoffs against Dart were bad much of the game but then they caused TO and limited shots too to get the ball back, .. the Dart goalie was saving around 70% to keep them in the game. but we compounded issues with a bad clearing game..

We will not survive against the better teams at under 40% most of the time at the X no matter how well the D plays.

Issues aside, I continue to think that we haven't played what anyone feels close to our full potential and we're still sitting at 8-1. Gotta keep improving.

upprdeck
Faceoffs against Dart were bad much of the game but then they caused TO and limited shots too to get the ball back, .. the Dart goalie was saving around 70% to keep them in the game. but we compounded issues with a bad clearing game..

We will not survive against the better teams at under 40% most of the time at the X no matter how well the D plays.

Gavin Adler, please stay healthy.

I just read Adler's stats. He's 5-foot-8 and a defenseman and considered on the of 3 or 4 best defenders in lacrosse. Freaking Jeff Teat was 5-foot-10 although 10 pounds lighter and got pushed around occasionally.

billhoward

upprdeck
Faceoffs against Dart were bad much of the game but then they caused TO and limited shots too to get the ball back, .. the Dart goalie was saving around 70% to keep them in the game. but we compounded issues with a bad clearing game..

We will not survive against the better teams at under 40% most of the time at the X no matter how well the D plays.

Gavin Adler, please stay healthy.

I just read Adler's stats. He's 5-foot-8 and a defenseman and considered on the of 3 or 4 best defenders in lacrosse. Freaking Jeff Teat was 5-foot-10 although 10 pounds lighter and got pushed around occasionally.

One of the great things about lacrosse is that -- unlike basketball, football, or hockey -- players can be all sizes. Nonetheless, it seems lacrosse has certain archetypes:

• The archetypical attackman is either tall and lanky or a short dodger, with a low center of gravity.
• The archetypical middie is short (5' 7"+ and very fast and quick -- think Billy Coyle) or something like 6' 2" and low 200 lbs. (think Max Siebald or Connor Buczek)
• The archetypical defender is big. Because offensive players want to retain the ball, they try to avoid physical contact with defenders. OTOH, defenders often initiate contact with the opposing team's offense. So, they tend to be big. Adler is exceptional with his speed, quickness, and (most of all) stick-work. He's also listed at 180 lbs, which is pretty heavy for someone 5' 8". If the listed weight is accurate, then given his play, it must be all muscle. It's testimony to his athletic ability that he's able to guard guys 6-8 inches taller.

Swampy
One of the great things about lacrosse is that -- unlike basketball, football, or hockey -- players can be all sizes.

"They took tennis. They took golf. Thank God there is still a sport for middle-sized rich white boys."

Interesting dynamic among top lacrosse teams:

Maryland - Undefeated with quality win over Penn

Princeton/Georgetown/Cornell/Penn/Yale - Each team has at least one win and loss among the group, and the only loss to a team below them is the Yale loss to 2-8 Penn State

Rutgers - Lost to Princeton, but no losses to anyone not listed.

Every other school has a loss to someone not listed above.

If Rutgers manages to beat Maryland this weekend, and everyone else continues to win games they should, then all 7 teams would have at least one win and loss within the group.

At this point, it would be fair to say that all other teams are on the outside, although RPI has Virginia and Hahvahd above Rutgers and Cornell.

After all those years of feeling frustrated by the ACC superiority because they were winners of the few significant OOC games, it is nice that the tables are finally turned and the Ivies are the ones benefiting.

nshapiro
Interesting dynamic among top lacrosse teams:

Maryland - Undefeated with quality win over Penn

Princeton/Georgetown/Cornell/Penn/Yale - Each team has at least one win and loss among the group, and the only loss to a team below them is the Yale loss to 2-8 Penn State

Rutgers - Lost to Princeton, but no losses to anyone not listed.

Every other school has a loss to someone not listed above.

If Rutgers manages to beat Maryland this weekend, and everyone else continues to win games they should, then all 7 teams would have at least one win and loss within the group.

At this point, it would be fair to say that all other teams are on the outside, although RPI has Virginia and Hahvahd above Rutgers and Cornell.

After all those years of feeling frustrated by the ACC superiority because they were winners of the few significant OOC games, it is nice that the tables are finally turned and the Ivies are the ones benefiting.

Hard to believe Harvard's RPI is higher when they have yet to play a top ten team.

Al DeFlorio
Hard to believe Harvard's RPI is higher when they have yet to play a top ten team.

Harvard asked MIT for help optimizing the numbers.

Big game today.. another sucky weather day.. Beat Harvard/brown and its Princeton to decide the Ivy title. Lose today and its not even a given we finish top 4..

Watching Yale-Dartmouth. The cameraperson is still experimenting with the genre.

Y routing D, Brown went from 0-5 to up 7-7 with Penn, Princeton over BU 5-4 early 3rd. OSU beats Hop.

Brown hands Penn third Ivy loss at Penn. Cornell has three brutal Ivy games coming up.

Al DeFlorio
Brown hands Penn third Ivy loss at Penn. Cornell has three brutal Ivy games coming up.

That’s a surprising result. No doubt the last 5 games are going to be a tough slog.

Nice score. It looks like they're trying to get the ball to the attack in front of the goal, who turns and shoots, like a post-up. I still haven't seen Cornell hit a cutter in forever. I wonder if it's even a consideration.

I love the good passing to the cutters. That will open some other things up. We need to keep it up.

The Harvard goalie made some really nice point-blank stops.

I had to turn off the WHCU guy. It's not Barry.

D has been solid. Too many turnovers.

We’ve had 4 point-blank shots stopped. Harvard goalie Mullins is playing like he’s the spawn of Dan Mackesey and Paul Schimoller.

Wertheim! What a great shot.

Love that bouncer by Holmes. That's tough on a goalie.

Hero goalie pays the price.

If I'm going to follow the camerawork in the second half, I'm going to need to find some dramamine.

The team is losing its focus with the big lead. They are not executing the clears.

Sloppy clearing letting Harvard back in the game. Let's not repeat the Yale comeback.

Nobody near him on the man-up.

No backup!

Cornell is deadly in unsettled offense.

Too much high to high from Piatelli.

I'm happy they are trying to hit cutters. Without Aiden Blake, they need a more diverse offense.

I see where Coach Buczek retired from professional lacrosse. What a great playing career!

Good win against a very good team. Let's hope they get some rest before Monday!

The final today was 17-9 Cornell. Face-offs we’re 18-11 Big Red.

RichH
The final today was 17-9 Cornell. Face-offs we’re 18-11 Big Red.

novel post. what gave you the idea to include any information in it?

Because I have no life, I re-watched some of the game and I come here before you to once again beat a dead horse. The Cornell offense really looked good when they were quick hitting cutters at the crease. Yes, the goalie stuffed them but those plays usually result in slam dunks. The offense found a weakness in the goalie above his left shoulder, and so never needed to go back to hitting cutters. But I wish they would go back to this in the Syracuse game because it diversifies the offense and because they are really good at it.

Who was the color commentator during the Harvard game? When I watched the Yale game a few weeks earlier, it was only the play-by-play guy. The broadcast was much better with a knowledgable color commentator.

dbilmes
Who was the color commentator during the Harvard game? When I watched the Yale game a few weeks earlier, it was only the play-by-play guy. The broadcast was much better with a knowledgable color commentator.

Howie Borkan '81...excellent.

[cornellbigred.com]