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Indoor Practice Facility

Posted by Ken711 
Indoor Practice Facility
Posted by: Ken711 (---.washdc.fios.verizon.net)
Date: January 23, 2019 01:52PM

Cornell continues to fall farther behind the other Ivy schools with athletic facilities improvements. With Ithaca weather being just as bad as Hanover, NH, it's all the more reason for Cornell to finally build one.

[campus-services.dartmouth.edu]
 
Re: Indoor Practice Facility
Posted by: CU2007 (---.sub-174-202-39.myvzw.com)
Date: January 23, 2019 03:18PM

What about Barton? Or the room with the Climbing Wall?
 
Re: Indoor Practice Facility
Posted by: Trotsky (---.dc.dc.cox.net)
Date: January 23, 2019 03:26PM

I'm not sure our rivals' making massive commitments to discretionary parts of the university experience implies we "have to" as well.

We could, for example, let them spend themselves into oblivion while directing our own resources towards education.
 
Re: Indoor Practice Facility
Posted by: marty (---.nycap.res.rr.com)
Date: January 23, 2019 04:02PM

Trotsky
I'm not sure our rivals' making massive commitments to discretionary parts of the university experience implies we "have to" as well.

We could, for example, let them spend themselves into oblivion while directing our own resources towards education.

"Mr. Gorbachev, tear down that practice facility."
 
Re: Indoor Practice Facility
Posted by: Trotsky (---.dc.dc.cox.net)
Date: January 23, 2019 04:48PM

marty
Trotsky
I'm not sure our rivals' making massive commitments to discretionary parts of the university experience implies we "have to" as well.

We could, for example, let them spend themselves into oblivion while directing our own resources towards education.

"Mr. Gorbachev, tear down that practice facility."

Without immediate countermeasures, Dartmouth could be emboldened by this dangerous facility gap and sweep down on us in a sneak attack from Cortland. We must deploy an Early Warning Practice Field in Utica.
 
Re: Indoor Practice Facility
Posted by: Ken711 (---.washdc.fios.verizon.net)
Date: January 23, 2019 05:03PM

Trotsky
I'm not sure our rivals' making massive commitments to discretionary parts of the university experience implies we "have to" as well.

We could, for example, let them spend themselves into oblivion while directing our own resources towards education.

That's true, you don't "have to" if you don't care to be competitive when it comes to competing in varsity sports with your Ivy peers, especially with regards to player/team development and recruiting.
 
Re: Indoor Practice Facility
Posted by: CAS (---.sub-174-225-19.myvzw.com)
Date: January 23, 2019 05:21PM

Wanna remain competitive in lax?
 
Re: Indoor Practice Facility
Posted by: rss77 (---.twcny.res.rr.com)
Date: January 23, 2019 05:44PM

Was told by an insider a couple of years ago that an indoor practice facility would facilitate playing February and early March lax games inside rather than brave the unpredictable Ithaca weather.
 
Re: Indoor Practice Facility
Posted by: Cop at Lynah (---.twcny.res.rr.com)
Date: January 23, 2019 10:26PM

There are plans to build a new athletic events center where the TRB lot currently sits. Stay tuned........
 
Re: Indoor Practice Facility
Posted by: marty (161.11.160.---)
Date: January 24, 2019 11:15AM

Trotsky
marty
Trotsky
I'm not sure our rivals' making massive commitments to discretionary parts of the university experience implies we "have to" as well.

We could, for example, let them spend themselves into oblivion while directing our own resources towards education.

"Mr. Gorbachev, tear down that practice facility."

Without immediate countermeasures, Dartmouth could be emboldened by this dangerous facility gap and sweep down on us in a sneak attack from Cortland. We must deploy an Early Warning Practice Field in UticaDryden.

FYP!demented
 
Re: Indoor Practice Facility
Posted by: billhoward (---.sub-174-225-4.myvzw.com)
Date: January 26, 2019 11:10PM

rss77
Was told by an insider a couple of years ago that an indoor practice facility would facilitate playing February and early March lax games inside rather than brave the unpredictable Ithaca weather.
There are indoor practice facilities that are an inflatable bubble on an existing field such as Harvard, Princeton and I believe Penn. They get taken down in the spring.

Then there are full-time indoor facilities. Cornell's Richard M Ramin multipurpose room is the 27,000 sq ft turfed room at the far end of Bartels Hall; it also has the Lindseth Climbing Wall. It counts as an indoor practice facility. The one Dartmouth is doing is 56,000 sq ft and triples the laid-down artificial turf in the older Leverone Field House. For reference, an acre is 43,560 sq ft and a football field between the goal lines is also about an acre 300x160=48,000 sq ft). (Dick Ramiin '51 was a football player then Cornell's VP for PR/marcom/ass-covering and spent the early '70s trying to spin Cornell basketball, an alcoholic coach, defections by black and then white players, and the SI story "Low in Cayuga's Waters" in an upbeat light. [www.si.com])

For Cornell to match the Ivies or one-up them, it'd have to be a 130-yard field house (100 yards + end zones + 5 yards beyond) where you could practice full field football, or play lax or soccer on a bitterly cold day. Recall Cornell played lax inside the Michigan field house ~5 years ago and escaped with a 1-goal win. If you're doing this, you probably want it 200 feet wide so you could fit 1000-2500 fans. Could this be Berman Field (not likely since the track surrounding the field would mean a bigger / costlier bubble or roof)? One of the handful of remaining Upper Alumni Fields?

Berman Field was done on the cheap. The seats don't have a lot of elevation for a good view of the action. It's a nice HS stadium is what it is.

I believe an inflatable dome is $5-$10M (if you include upkeep, which is what Cornell is asking of athletics donors - the facility and 20+ years of upkeep). A hard roof over even a small field is serious bucks but it would one-up the other Ivies.

I wonder if the parking lot next to Schoellkopf Field is possibly in play. Or the former Schoellkopf West Stands plus the Hoy parking garage. It could become the top level of the garage. BU just built 2 fields atop a garage a couple blocks from Nickerson Field (their only field).

As Cornell pushes athletic facilities to the edges of campus, it's harder for students to drop by for a sports event after class. The beginning of the end was 45 years ago when Lower Alumni Field became Comstock Hall. It could have been the field for soccer and lacrosse, as it was when it was a grass field with wooden stands for maybe 1000 spectators, plus more sitting on the grass.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 01/26/2019 11:23PM by billhoward.
 
Re: Indoor Practice Facility
Posted by: David Harding (---.hsd1.il.comcast.net)
Date: January 27, 2019 12:33AM


The beginning of the end was 45 years ago when Lower Alumni Field became Comstock Hall. It could have been the field for soccer and lacrosse, as it was when it was a grass field with wooden stands for maybe 1000 spectators, plus more sitting on the grass.
Lightweight Football played on Lower Alumni Field, too.
 
Re: Indoor Practice Facility
Posted by: Ken711 (---.washdc.fios.verizon.net)
Date: January 27, 2019 07:25PM

billhoward
rss77
Was told by an insider a couple of years ago that an indoor practice facility would facilitate playing February and early March lax games inside rather than brave the unpredictable Ithaca weather.
There are indoor practice facilities that are an inflatable bubble on an existing field such as Harvard, Princeton and I believe Penn. Columbia also has a practice bubble. They get taken down in the spring.

Then there are full-time indoor facilities. Cornell's Richard M Ramin multipurpose room is the 27,000 sq ft turfed room at the far end of Bartels Hall; it also has the Lindseth Climbing Wall. It counts as an indoor practice facility. The one Dartmouth is doing is 56,000 sq ft and triples the laid-down artificial turf in the older Leverone Field House. For reference, an acre is 43,560 sq ft and a football field between the goal lines is also about an acre 300x160=48,000 sq ft). (Dick Ramiin '51 was a football player then Cornell's VP for PR/marcom/ass-covering and spent the early '70s trying to spin Cornell basketball, an alcoholic coach, defections by black and then white players, and the SI story "Low in Cayuga's Waters" in an upbeat light. [www.si.com])

For Cornell to match the Ivies or one-up them, it'd have to be a 130-yard field house (100 yards + end zones + 5 yards beyond) where you could practice full field football, or play lax or soccer on a bitterly cold day. Recall Cornell played lax inside the Michigan field house ~5 years ago and escaped with a 1-goal win. If you're doing this, you probably want it 200 feet wide so you could fit 1000-2500 fans. Could this be Berman Field (not likely since the track surrounding the field would mean a bigger / costlier bubble or roof)? One of the handful of remaining Upper Alumni Fields?

Berman Field was done on the cheap. The seats don't have a lot of elevation for a good view of the action. It's a nice HS stadium is what it is.

I believe an inflatable dome is $5-$10M (if you include upkeep, which is what Cornell is asking of athletics donors - the facility and 20+ years of upkeep). A hard roof over even a small field is serious bucks but it would one-up the other Ivies. Dartmouth's is a permanent facility. Yale is exploring a practice facility as well. Cornell commissioned a company to develop a feasibility study report to compare an inflatable vs a permanent facility. That study is nearing completion from what I know.

I wonder if the parking lot next to Schoellkopf Field is possibly in play. Or the former Schoellkopf West Stands plus the Hoy parking garage. It could become the top level of the garage. BU just built 2 fields atop a garage a couple blocks from Nickerson Field (their only field).

As Cornell pushes athletic facilities to the edges of campus, it's harder for students to drop by for a sports event after class. The beginning of the end was 45 years ago when Lower Alumni Field became Comstock Hall. It could have been the field for soccer and lacrosse, as it was when it was a grass field with wooden stands for maybe 1000 spectators, plus more sitting on the grass.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/27/2019 07:31PM by Ken711.
 
Re: Indoor Practice Facility
Posted by: Ken711 (---.washdc.fios.verizon.net)
Date: April 03, 2019 07:12PM

[brownbears.com]


Cornell's planned facility improvements....sound of crickets.
 
Re: Indoor Practice Facility
Posted by: Swampy (209.197.16.---)
Date: April 03, 2019 07:32PM

Ken711
[brownbears.com]


Cornell's planned facility improvements....sound of crickets.

"Indoor" does not appear in the Brown article. It seems to me an indoor practice (and perhaps game) facility is what our lacrosse team needs the most.

Are our other facilities for lacrosse and soccer teams as scattershot as Brown's are?
 
Re: Indoor Practice Facility
Posted by: upprdeck (---.syrcny.east.verizon.net)
Date: April 03, 2019 09:58PM

the big issue is 2 fold, firs,t the money needs to be donated. second, the location, of which the only real places is the facility off game farm.. this is the thing that might happen when the baseball field finally moves out there in 5-10 yrs.
 
Re: Indoor Practice Facility
Posted by: CU2007 (---.nyc.res.rr.com)
Date: April 04, 2019 06:31PM

upprdeck
the big issue is 2 fold, firs,t the money needs to be donated. second, the location, of which the only real places is the facility off game farm.. this is the thing that might happen when the baseball field finally moves out there in 5-10 yrs.

Should have already happened. The field looks really nice but the fact is it’s absolutely massive, takes up prime real estate that could benefit many more people, and no one really cares about Cornell baseball.
 
Re: Indoor Practice Facility
Posted by: dag14 (---.dhcp.bhn.net)
Date: April 04, 2019 09:53PM

Speak for yourself. I care about Cornell baseball and have since before I cared about Cornell hockey or lacrosse.

The debate about athletics v. academics occupying central campus real estate doesn't really center on any particular sport. It is just easier to move a field than a building to somewhere else. You are living in a dream world if you think an enclosed practice facility will ever be built on central campus.
 
Re: Indoor Practice Facility
Posted by: upprdeck (---.syrcny.east.verizon.net)
Date: April 04, 2019 10:40PM

enough people care about baseball to fund it
 
Re: Indoor Practice Facility
Posted by: billhoward (---.sub-174-225-12.myvzw.com)
Date: April 05, 2019 12:59PM

Cornell needs two new facilities:
  • Field-length practice field, enclosed / domed.
  • Better M/W lacrosse-soccer field seating 3,500-6,000
Lower and Upper Alumni Fields that were said to be forever greeen (for sports) got taken instead for academics, starting mid-1979s, possibly in violation of the old West Rule ["Village Council just passed an ordinance. House of ill repute and place of worship can't be within 100 yards of each other." "Oh, yeah? Where's the church moving?"]

We're seeing right-sized fields for non-football. Princeton has the best in Class of '52 Field, about 4,000 seats, steeply pitched for good sightlines, dressing facilities for men / women / visitors. Yale has Stevenson Reece Field near Yale Bowl although its 3,000 seats were barely enough for Yale-Cornell lax. Now Dartmouth, now Brown. Also more Ivies are creating permanent indoor field houses for length-of-field practices. If not now, soon all the Ivies will need them to be competitive with non-Ivy opponents.

Below I marked up a view of Cornell on-campus playing fields and the academic buildings that took away playing fields.

There are just 4 upper alumni fields left. Two are grass surfaces. (I overlaid the boundaries of the Schoellkopf football field playing surface on one for reference). The third is Dodson Field, only for wonen's field hockey because it has AstroTurf which makes a ball roller straighter and is also more abrasive if you fall and slide. (It has portable bleachers, no permanent stands.) The fourth is the Bob Kane '34 complex / Berman Field pitch, a cost-conscious effort at a field for soccer and track with lights and modest 1000-seat stands that are low to the field. It always reminds me of something a high school would do.

If Cornell is to build a better lacrosse-maybe soccer field (with no track, for better viewing by fans), it could go:
  • In place of one of the two grass fields (there for practice for the occasional grass-field football game)
  • Replace (move to the west) the field hockey field, possibly create a mutual press box / stands / enclosed spectator area between that and Berman Field. For many events, even for M-Lax early-season, 1,000 seats are all you need, but for Cornell-Princeton in late April, you might want 5,000 seats.
  • Replace Hoy Field and move baseball farther from campus. Moving baseball only impacts one sport.So would moving field hockey off-campus, for that matter.
  • Maybe it's possible to wedge an interesting facility on the hillside between the Crescent Lot and the Oxley Lot if you drive enough pilings.
I hope Cornell keeps as many sports on campus as possible, so students without cars can go see the games. Maybe that's wishful thinking giving how low the attendance is, how few midweek afternoon games there are anymore, but it seems odd that the Ivy's second most rural campus has to push activities off campus because there isn't room on-campus.

Perhaps the Cornell 2050 plan should envision a Schoellkopf Field II more in scale with today's crowds. It sells out twice a year: graduation, and the Homecoming Friday fireworks if it's not cold/rainy. Maybe with the West Stands gone and the track gone (unused for competition), the field can be moved closer to the stands. My rough measurements find that from the edge of the lacrosse surface (~60 yards wide), there's 10-11 yards to the edge of the Crescent stands, and 26-28 yards to the edge of the parking deck / pressbox.

FYI the largest playing surface is soccer at 110-120 yards long by 70-80 yards wide (Berman is 118 x 74).
Sport       	Length (yd)	Width 
Soccer      	110-120		70-80
Berman Field 	118         	74
Lacrosse M/W	110      	53-1/3 - 60 
Football	120             53-1/3
Field hockey 	100           	60

I also wish Cornell had one field with a rolling slope on one side so spectators could picnic, catch sun, check Tinder, and maybe watch the game. Those are probably going away because of the desire to insulate players from fans, and probably liability issues.
Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 04/06/2019 09:17AM by billhoward.

 
Re: Indoor Practice Facility
Posted by: upprdeck (---.syrcny.east.verizon.net)
Date: April 05, 2019 05:16PM

not sure you can build anything like that in that location with what is underground right there. you certainly have an issue disturbing the research.
 
Re: Indoor Practice Facility
Posted by: TimV (---.amc.edu)
Date: April 05, 2019 05:45PM

billhoward

We're seeing right-sized fields for non-football. Princeton has the best in Class of '52 Field, about 4,000 seats, steeply pitched for good sightlines, dressing facilities for men / women / visitors. Yale has Stevenson Field near Yale Bowl although its 3,000 seats were barely enough for Yale-Cornell lax.

I think Stevenson Field is Brown's current lacrosse-soccer facility. Yale's is Reece Stadium and according to their website has 1250 permanent seats. I've seen bleachers in the end zone and along the Cox Cage wall on the far side. It's a great facility because the stands are mounted above the team rooms so they are both close to the field but still have elevated sight lines.

Yale Reece Stadium

 
___________________________
"Yo Paulie - I don't see no crowd gathering 'round you neither."
 
Re: Indoor Practice Facility
Posted by: billhoward (---.nwrk.east.verizon.net)
Date: April 06, 2019 09:56AM

I've also seen Yale's Reese Stadium capacity as 1,766 permanent seats plus standing room, and 3,000. The Cornell-Yale lax match drew 2,716 according to the box score, with a lot of people along the sidelines and well back on the ends. According to the [centerbrook.com], Reese's "barrel vaults and arches found on the facades of the nearby Yale Bowl and Yale Baseball Stadium, along with similar stucco, ... unite Yale’s athletic village." I'm trying to recall the architectural details that unite Lynah, Schoellkopf and Berman.


Centerbrook architects

Centerbrook has expanded and renovated Reese Stadium, raising the profile of the home for Yale University’s men and women’s varsity soccer and lacrosse teams. In addition to upgrading the 1981 facility with new seating, turf, lighting, and amenities for players, fans and alumni, the design employs the same barrel vaults and arches found on the facades of the nearby Yale Bowl and Yale Baseball Stadium, along with similar stucco, to unite Yale’s athletic village.

“The new Reese Stadium will draw excellent coaches and students and proudly host tournaments and NCAA games – events that will bring new prestige to the teams and to Yale Athletics,” according to the dedication day program.

Centerbrook previously developed a Master Plan for the university’s Derby Avenue athletic campus, and designed the Kenney Center and adjacent Jensen Plaza as the formal entry to the historic Yale Bowl. Several years ago, the firm also expanded and renovated the Cullman-Heyman Tennis Center.

The new facility replaces old bleachers with an entirely new building that also houses team rooms, concessions, ticket booths, a press box, and two alumni terraces at the top of the grandstand. It hosted its first soccer games in 2010. The new stadium now seats 1,766 spectators along with additional areas for standing room viewing.

The thing I would add to a small stadium is a canopy or roof over some of the stands. We saw lacrosse games this spring that drew under 500. Then you'd at least be out of the weather if you're a spectator.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/06/2019 09:23PM by billhoward.
 
Re: Indoor Practice Facility
Posted by: TimV (---.nycap.res.rr.com)
Date: April 06, 2019 07:02PM

billhoward

I'm trying to recall the architectural details that unit Lynah, Schoellkopf and Berman.


Flat bench seats that haven't changed form since 1929?

 
___________________________
"Yo Paulie - I don't see no crowd gathering 'round you neither."
 
Re: Indoor Practice Facility
Posted by: CU77 (---.wireless.ucsb.edu)
Date: April 09, 2019 05:50PM

testing, sorry, please ignore
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/09/2019 05:51PM by CU77.
 

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